[12:02] <comadreja> I mean, I compiled the basic mplayer from sources without sv support
[12:03] <comadreja> but then how could it be that dvd's can't be played ?
[12:03] <daniels> it could be an mplayer bu
[12:03] <daniels> g
[12:03] <daniels> the only way to find out if mplayer is decoding it correctly is to not use xv
[12:03] <comadreja> mplayer, xine, and totem...
[12:03] <daniels> if you use x11, and that works, then it's decoding it correctly
[12:03] <daniels> yes, a lot of them use common code for decoding stuff
[12:04] <daniels> what you need to do, is find a video where, with the very same media player, plain x11 works, and xv fails
[12:04] <comadreja> I see, then it's gotta be that
[12:04] <comadreja> no, don't misunderstand me, I don't want it to be an X problem :)
[12:04] <comadreja> I prefer it to be an mplayer one
[12:05] <comadreja> and it's more reasonable
[12:05] <comadreja> I'll try to debug mplayer... also much easier :D
[12:07] <comadreja> to whom should I report progress on this ?
[12:07] <ogra> comadreja, if you make progress, attache the information to the bug
[12:08] <comadreja> cool, thanks
[12:33] <comadreja> daniels, still there
[12:36] <Kamion> lamont__: yo - was your ping here already sorted in /msg?
[12:37] <lamont__> dealt with, thanks
[12:38] <lamont__> mvo: it'd be nice if apt had an option that said to retry apt-get update N times, or until the gpg checks pass
[12:38] <mvo> *ick* 
[12:38] <lamont__> setting that to 2 or 3 would eliminate lots of the current transient errors we sometimes ee.
[12:38] <mvo> oh, I see
[12:39] <mvo> we would need atomic update :)
[12:39] <lamont__> likewise, having apt just start all the fetches at once would tend to have the same effect, since they'd all be open files on the server system that way... but that's not as nice...
[12:39] <mvo> but just keep retrying is a workaround we may try
[12:39] <lamont__> mvo: that's a hacky attempt at atomic update-esque behavior...
[12:41] <lamont__> mvo: and if you do it in apt, then I don't have to add it to buildd... :-)
[12:41] <mvo> lamont__: heh :) I'll be away for two weeks for my summer vacation. but I can have a look when I come bug. 
[12:42] <lamont__> cute freudian slip there.
[12:50] <lamont__> Keybuk: ping
[12:50] <Keybuk> 'sup?
[12:50] <mvo> lamont__: think of it as some kind of outlandish accent ;)
[12:52] <daniels> comadreja: yo
[12:52] <lamont__> Keybuk: other window...
[12:53] <comadreja> daniels : it's an xv problem :(
[12:53] <comadreja> daniels : I downloaded ubuntu sources, and compiled myself
[12:53] <comadreja> daniels : with xv and x11 support
[12:54] <comadreja> daniels : output is in an attach on the bug
[12:54] <daniels> ok.  i have some xv updates for i810 in the pipeline, so we'll see if that fixes it.
[12:55] <comadreja> daniels : awesome
[01:21] <doko> elmo: is OOo2 for i386 hanging in NEW?
[01:21] <mdke> he's not here right now
[01:22] <Kamion> doko: yes, it is, I'll deal with it
[01:22] <ogra> doko, where is ooo2 for amd64 hanging ? :P
[01:22] <Kamion> ogra: not in NEW :P
[01:22] <ogra> heh
[01:24] <doko> ogra: unlikely that it will build for breezy
[01:24] <ogra> :(((
[01:24] <ogra> ((
[01:24] <ogra> (
[01:24] <thom> ))))))
[01:25] <hubH> thom: I've got my log for the NM crqsh
[01:25] <hubH> s/crash/misfunction/
[01:25] <thom> cool, mail me it? (thom@ubuntu.com)
[01:25] <thom> i'm going to bed now
[01:25] <hubH> thom: where shall I report the bug ?
[01:25] <hubH> ok I'll mail
[01:25] <thom> thanks
[01:27] <Kamion> doko: openoffice.org2-l10n-pt-br needs to depend on language-support-pt, not language-support-pt-br
[01:32] <doko> Kamion: fantastic idea ... did pitti make a list of mapping from locales to language pack names?
[01:32] <Kamion> just s/-.*// on the locale part
[01:38] <hubH> is it me or gaim crashes ?
[01:38] <hubH> I reported the bug, but I wanted to make sure
[01:43] <jmjones> hubH: when does it crash for you?
[01:43] <jmjones> i've been using it for months and haven't experienced a single crash.....
[01:43] <doko> Kamion: is that true for zh-cn and zh-tw as well?
[01:44] <doko> ahh, yes
[01:45] <Kamion> doko: yes
[01:46] <Kamion> I'll new them anyway, you can fix those next upload
[01:46] <jmjones> has anyone in here taken a look at gtkwifi?
[01:47] <hubH> jmjones: when launching it
[01:47] <jmjones> sweet!
[01:47] <jmjones> it'll be in the next release?
[01:48] <hubH> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12428
[01:48] <Kamion> it's not in the distro yet
[01:50] <Kamion> lrwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2005-07-05 18:26:55 ./usr/share/man/man1/oobase2.1.gz -> openoffice2.1
[01:50] <Kamion> doko: should that be -> .1.gz?
[01:50] <\sh> Kamion: sorry for holding up...
[01:50] <mdke> np \sh 
[01:50] <Kamion> \sh: np
[01:51] <doko> yep, I didn't look at the bug reports yet, current state is getting it built and running (java based parts don't work yet very well)
[01:52] <Kamion> doko: firefox vs. mozilla-firefox dependencies from mozilla-openoffice.org are a bit random
[01:52] <Kamion> doko: (yup, I'm just queueing the problems I see up here in lieu of firing up a web browser to file bugs :P)
[01:54] <Kamion> doko: accepted
[01:57] <wasabi> Hmm. Oddly beagle isn't installable at home.
[01:58] <wasabi> Seems to require "dbus-1" which makes a lot of stuff get removed
[01:58] <daniels> sounds about right
[01:59] <daniels> dbus-1 -> old dbus
[01:59] <wasabi> GOt it installed at work just fine though
[02:00] <wasabi> Ahh there it goes
[02:01] <doko> Kamion: fixed the firefox dep's
[02:04] <Kamion> thanks
[02:08] <doko> thom: could libnss and libnspr be built from the firefox source as well? Is one package generally preferred for building these binary packages?
[02:22] <daniels> fabbione: right, got the xserver-xorg problem
[02:51] <jp> gnome-pilot
[03:15] <mxpxpod> jbailey: ping
[03:23] <jp> hijbailey evo bug =)
[03:23] <jp> jbailey evo bug =)
[03:23] <jp> hhahah
[03:23] <jp> :P
[03:36] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Hey, I'm back.
[03:36] <jbailey> managed to get locked out of my place. =)
[03:36] <mxpxpod> jbailey: let's figure out this error I'm getting
[03:36] <jbailey> I haven't assembled any furniture yet. =(
[03:36] <mxpxpod> /usr/lib/gnome-panel/wnck-applet: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libwnck-1.so.16: R_PPC_REL24 relocation at 0x0ffa7b58 for symbol `XextRemoveDisplay' out of range
[03:36] <mxpxpod> oh
[03:36] <jbailey> I was waiting for my mother in law to come back with the housekeys
[03:37] <mxpxpod> heh
[03:37] <jbailey> This is current breezy, right?  So probably not alot of ppc testers.
[03:37] <mxpxpod> jbailey: right, current breezy
[03:37] <jbailey> Best thing is for me to get my machine setup and see if I can replecate it.
[03:37] <mxpxpod> ok
[03:37] <mxpxpod> and I upgraded from  hoary
[03:38] <jbailey> I've moved from being on the floor to sitting ona bench with my laptop balanced on a box.
[03:38] <mxpxpod> haha
[03:38] <jbailey> On the upside, I found a curry house that when I asked for "spicey" beleived me.
[03:38] <Amaranth> *shudder*
[03:39] <mxpxpod> nice
[03:39] <Amaranth> i can't stand spicy food
[03:39] <jbailey> It didn't *quite* get past my tollerance, but my stomach "could'na take any more, captain!"
[03:40] <jbailey> Amaranth: I'm a vegan - much of the cooking in the world that I can eat has spice as an integral part of it.
[03:40] <Amaranth> ah
[03:40] <Amaranth> otherwise there is no flavor at all :p
[03:41] <mxpxpod> jbailey: do you want the bug number?
[03:44] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Not at the moment - I can't do much useful with it in this setup, and I think my time is best spent making sure that I can be productive from the beginning of the day tomorrow.
[03:44] <jbailey> Actually, hmm.
[03:44] <jbailey> Are you able to assign the bug to me?
[03:44] <jbailey> If not, I can go in and take.
[03:44] <jbailey> +it
[03:45] <mxpxpod> jbailey: I can assign it
[03:45] <mxpxpod> jbailey: jbailey@ubuntu.com?
[03:46] <hubH> crap
[03:47] <hubH> gaim still not working and debug build not helpful
[03:47] <mxpxpod> hubH: go into your config and remove the loading of gaim-encryption
[03:48] <mxpxpod> that made it work for me
[03:51] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Please.
[03:51] <hubH> mxpxpod: ah
[03:51] <hubH> mxpxpod: abi issues ?
[03:52] <mxpxpod> hubH: no clue
[03:52] <mxpxpod> hubH: did that work?
[03:52] <mxpxpod> jbailey: is that your bugzilla id?
[03:52] <hubH> mxpxpod: wait. my machine is superslow
[03:53] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Yes.
[03:53] <mxpxpod> gah, my cat is being a pain
[03:54] <hubH> mxpxpod: work way much better
[03:54] <hubH> mxpxpod: thanks for the tips
[03:54] <mxpxpod> hubH: no prob
[03:54] <hubH> I forgot about thses
[03:55] <hubH> no one use gaim-encrypt anyway
[03:58] <mxpxpod> jbailey: I can't reassign... I'll CC you
[03:58] <jbailey> I can do then.
[03:58] <jbailey> Got a bug #?
[03:58] <jbailey> Just that if you had it open anyway and could do it.
[03:58] <mxpxpod> 12241 
[03:59] <jbailey> Matt said he was locking permissions down and I haven't had the chance to figure out what that means people can do.
[04:00] <jp> jbailey evo bug =)
[04:00] <jbailey> jp: I see that you said that earlier in the channel.  I haven't a clue what you're talking about at the moment.
[04:00] <jp> jbailey really dude?
[04:01] <jbailey> jp: As I said earlier, I have spent the last 4 days or so moving from one province to another.
[04:01] <jp> so now I know why evo crashes yet on breezy, thanks.
[04:02] <jp> jbailey, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12188 that's what I've been saying you =)
[04:03] <jbailey> Oh.  Do you know if someone has repoted this to upstream bugzilla?
[04:04] <jbailey> If youhave a chance to look at that, it would be very useful - I don't have an exchange server handy to test against, so with evo-exchange bugs, I usually wind up working with upstream.
[04:04] <jp> jbailey no, I don't, I'll search on gnome bugzilla
[04:04] <jp> ok
[04:05] <jbailey> Yup, looks like it is.
[04:06] <jbailey> bugzilla.ximian.com
[04:06] <calc> is network magic going to include wpa supplicant?
[04:06] <jp> ok jbailey 
[04:07] <jbailey> calc: That's the new version of wep that there isn't a free software implementation for yet? 
[04:08] <calc> thats built into hardware?
[04:08] <calc> wpasupplicant is currently in universe/net
[04:09] <calc> and is GPLed
[04:09] <calc> and BSD, hmm dual license GPL/BSD it appears
[04:10] <calc> http://hostap.epitest.fi/wpa_supplicant/
[04:12] <jp> jbailey uhmm Im not finding nothing :/ but I follow the seek :)
[04:12] <jp> the search (:
[04:13] <jbailey> thanks!
[04:18] <seth_k> calc, NetworkMagic works with wpasupplicant iirc
[04:18] <calc> seth_k: ok, it doesn't mention it on the udu wiki page
[04:18] <seth_k> calc, I remember somebody talking about it here in -devel
[04:18] <calc> good integration with wpasupplicant will make linux a lot easier to use with wireless
[04:18] <seth_k> you know it
[04:18] <seth_k> I want better roaming
[04:19] <seth_k> with profiles that switch on the fly
[04:19] <seth_k> I travel so much and am always having to change my wireless config
[04:19] <calc> i may not have it set up exactly correct right now, but it seems i have to hardcode the ssid now if i want to connect to a ap that doesn't broadcast it
[04:20] <calc> and its certainly not mom friendly yet ;)
[04:21] <seth_k> Aunt Tillie, jah
[06:03] <fabbione> morning
[06:07] <seth_k> tch, 11 pm here. How about "Happy 0400 GMT"?
[06:07] <seth_k> :P
[06:07] <bddebian> heh
[06:07] <bddebian> Hello fabbione 
[06:08] <bddebian> Wow, I guess it's morning here too..  12:04am
[06:08] <jsgotangco> its lunch on my side :)
[06:08] <fabbione> you all live in weird timezones :P
[06:08] <bddebian> Heh
[06:09] <jsgotangco> hmm what is the "one true timezone" then?
[06:09] <fabbione> ehehhe
[06:10] <fabbione> of course
[06:10] <HrdwrBoB> jsgotangco: mine
[06:10] <HrdwrBoB> :)
[06:10] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[06:17] <seth_k> HrdwrBoB, do you have ops in #ubuntu ?
[06:17] <seth_k> we need somebody in there
[06:17] <HrdwrBoB> seth_k: if I did, I'd have done something already :(
[06:17] <seth_k> blah
[06:17] <seth_k> i couldn't remember if you did
[06:17] <seth_k> I only have ops in #kubuntu
[06:18] <seth_k> now he's /query'ing everybody
[07:23] <KaiL> Burgundavia: so bugs which are fixed in breezy should "resolved fixed", or only if they can be tolerated in hoary?
[07:23] <daniels> resolved/fixed
[07:24] <Burgundavia> is there a good reason to backport the fix?
[07:24] <Burgundavia> ie, major crasher or security hole?
[07:24] <Burgundavia> looks like a minor issue to me
[07:24] <KaiL> uhm, yes - esp. as you see the arrow
[07:25] <Burgundavia> if a bug is fixed in Breezy, it can marked fixed (this is my assumption)
[07:25] <KaiL> ..except it's something critical
[07:25] <Burgundavia> if you wish to get is backported, the best place to convince somebody would probably be here or ubuntu-devel
[07:28] <Burgundavia> so, to answer your question, yes to the first part and non-serious crasher/security bugs are tolerated in hoary
[07:54] <pitti> Good morning
[07:55] <Amaranth> jdub: Can nalioth be added to the #ubuntu access list?
[08:12] <Unfrgiven> hi all. is anyone able to run totem, xine or mplayer on breezy atm?
[08:12] <daniels> look, possibly a stupid question, but are any of dpkg/apt/archive tools going to run into problems with a 4627-character Depends line?
[08:12] <daniels> hm, of course elmo and Keybuk aren't here
[08:12] <daniels> Kamion: ?
[08:15] <Lathiat> heh, what has a 4627-character depends line
[08:15] <Lathiat> xorg?
[08:19] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:19] <fabbione> Kamion, mdz, elmo: what happened to my redhat-cluster-suite upload?
[08:20] <pitti> fabbione: you lost uploads as well?
[08:20] <pitti> fabbione: I already started to wonder whether I'm completely dumb
[08:20] <fabbione> pitti: looks like it...
[08:22] <sladen> daniels: it's 7am in the UK.  and keybuk only logged off 5 hours ago...
[08:23] <pitti> fabbione: the whole incoming queue is crowded with hppa uploads since yesterday
[08:23] <fabbione> ahhh
[08:23] <fabbione> but that's no problem...
[08:23] <fabbione> i am uploading _sparc binaries.. and they get ACCEPTED
[08:24] <pitti> fabbione: right, I see sparc as well
[08:24] <fabbione> so i don't really see why sources shouldn't be processed
[08:24] <pitti> fabbione: and indeed my uploads from yesterday night are mentioned for hppa, but not the source package or anything else
[08:24] <fabbione> probably the mailq is still flushing
[08:25] <pitti> fabbione: it's not the mail, I think
[08:25] <pitti> serpentine | 0.6.1-0ubuntu1 |        breezy | source, all
[08:25] <pitti> I uploaded 0ubuntu[23]  yesterday
[08:25] <pitti> redhat-cluster-suite | 1.20050704-0ubuntu1 |        breezy | source
[08:26] <daniels> Lathiat: xserver-xorg
[08:26] <fabbione> pitti: yeah.. i uploaded 1.20050706
[08:26] <infinity> Yeah, I lost two source uploads as well.
[08:26] <infinity> Thought I was losing my mind, so I reuploaded them.
[08:26] <fabbione> infinity: just reupload?
[08:27] <fabbione> i mean i think we should wait for elmo to look at it
... reuploading doesn't seem to have done any good.
[08:27] <pitti> infinity: I did the same :-/
[08:27] <infinity> I assume elmo needs to poke it, yes.
[08:27] <infinity> I didn't realise it was a widespread issue until now.
[08:40] <daniels> there down to a far more reasonable 3183 lines
[08:42] <daniels> christ.  i really don't want to write descriptions for all these packages.
[08:42] <daniels> shit, I don't even know what half these input drivers *are*.
[09:26] <Mez> siretart: ping
[09:45] <siretart> Mez: pong
[09:45] <Mez> aha :D
[09:45] <Mez> mind adding me to REVU?
[09:45] <Mez> you have my email with key and stuff in it ;)
[09:45] <Mez> and if you want help with REVU -I wouldnt mind helping
[09:45] <siretart> Mez: just a moment
[09:46] <pitti> fabbione: I finally found the cause of the esound hang
[09:46] <pitti> fabbione: sometimes draining the PCM device seems to trigger a race condition which makes the driver hang
[09:46] <pitti> fabbione: according to alsa's upstream changelog, this should be fixed in 1.0.9a
[09:47] <pitti> fabbione: can you please upgrade the alsa driver to 1.0.9b in the next kernel?
[09:48] <siretart> Mez: are you already an uploader for ubuntu?
[09:48] <Mez> er... no
[09:48] <fabbione> pitti: it's already 1.0.9b
[09:48] <Mez> not that I kow of :D
[09:49] <Mez> I've had all my uploads sponsored
[09:49] <pitti> fabbione: oh? thanks
[09:49] <siretart> no problem, just need to know
[09:49] <pitti> fabbione: well, I upload a workaround for now
[09:49] <fabbione> ok
[09:49] <Mez> (going for MOTU/Backports thgouh - well alrady backports - but need to go on REVU and do stuff to start with backports!)
[09:50] <Mez> s/with backports!/with MOTU/
[09:51] <daniels> mdz: so, dude
[09:51] <pitti> Hey mdz
[09:51] <daniels> mdz: do you know of any issues apt or such would have with a 3183-line Depends?
[09:51] <daniels> mdz: any fixed buffers I'd be smashing?
[09:51] <mdz> daniels: apt doesn't care about lines, but there are some byte limits
[09:51] <tepsipakki> anyone using rbscrobbler on breezy? stopped working for me.. maybe some bonobo-issue
[09:51] <pitti> daniels: which package is supposed to have so many deps?
[09:51] <mdz> daniels: what's this breakage with xkb about; is there a workaround?
[09:52] <daniels> mdz: 'kay
[09:52] <daniels> mdz: what xkb breakage?
[09:52] <siretart> Mez: ok, I added you to the keyring. you may upload now
[09:52] <mdz> daniels: (EE) Error loading keymap /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb/compiled/server-0.xkm
[09:52] <mdz> is it only me?
[09:52] <mdz> pitti: morning
[09:53] <mdz> daniels: .../compiled is a symlink to /var/lib/xkb, which is empty
[09:53] <fabbione> morning mdz
[09:53] <mdz> fabbione: morning
[09:53] <mvo> morning mdz
[09:54] <fabbione> it sounds strange to have you around at this time of the day
[09:54] <fabbione> ;)
[09:54] <mdz> indeed
[09:55] <mdz> daniels: I also have /usr/bin/X11 as a directory containing a symlink 'bin'
[09:55] <daniels> mdz: right.  if nothing has landed in /var/lib/xkb, then xkbcomp has failed to produce anything.  what sort of layout are you ... oh.
[09:55] <daniels> mdz: yeah, nuke /usr/bin/X11 and make it a symlink to /usr/bin
[09:56] <daniels> infinity: you were saying you knew how to do the /usr/bin/X11 migration properly?
[09:56] <mdz> daniels: nothing failed during the upgrade, though
[09:56] <daniels> mdz: it just failed silently
[09:56] <mdz> where does xkbcomp get called?
[09:56] <daniels> mdz: from within the server
[09:56] <mdz> oh, sweet
[09:56] <daniels> mdz: it puts the compiled keymap in /var/lib/xkb, and the server then open()s that
[09:57] <daniels> yeah, it's fucking nasty, to be blunt
[09:57] <daniels> there are about ten shell injections and buffer overflows you could trigger there to get root under the right set of circumstances
[09:57] <hunger> pitti: Just playing with luks... does that really need ~600k to store one key?
[09:57] <pitti> hunger: it probably allocates much space for the keyring
[09:58] <pitti> hunger: you can have multiple keys
[09:58] <pitti> hunger: that makes sense for /home e.g.
[09:58] <hunger> pitti: Yes... but 600k is room for LOTS of keys!
[09:58] <pitti> yes
[09:58] <daniels> mdz: (that figure isn't an exaggeration, BTW)
[09:58] <pitti> I didn't look at the exact space requirements so far
[10:00] <daniels> bbiab, making dinner
[10:00] <hunger> pitti: I am trying to do a keystore in a file. The loopback device is 1MiB, the filesystem has only 495k free.
[10:00] <mdz> X starts now, going back to the modern era with graphical user interfaces
[10:02] <pitti> wb, mdz :-)
[10:02] <mdz> pitti: with an X server, this time!
[10:02] <pitti> how l4m3 :-)
[10:02] <infinity> daniels : Yes, re-poke me when you're done dinner.
[10:13] <pitti> mdz: now that we have a working esound as emergency fallback again, I'd like to switch to polypaudio as default to get more widespread testing. Are you opposed to that?
[10:14] <mdz> pitti: it's very difficult for us to switch back due to the dependency issues; are you fairly confident we will be able to release with polypaudio?
[10:14] <pitti> mdz: it has worked stable for over a week on my laptop now, however, I'd like to see more testing
[10:15] <mdz> pitti: ok, let's do it
[10:15] <pitti> mdz: why is it difficult to switch back?
[10:15] <pitti> we did it in Hoary as well
[10:16] <pitti> mdz: if I get more testing and bug reports, then we can certainly fix the remaining crashes; it's not totally broken any more at least
[10:17] <pitti> mdz: switching would mean: change desktop seed and regenerate ubuntu-meta?
[10:17] <mdz> pitti: if you look at a sample of systems which were running hoary during development, you'll find that many of them still run polypaudio unless the user explicitly switched back
[10:18] <mdz> pitti: yes, seeds and ubuntu-meta
[10:18] <pitti> mdz: uh, becuase they deleted ubuntu-desktop?
[10:18] <mdz> pitti: no, because polypaudio Provides: esound
[10:18] <pitti> ah
[10:19] <infinity> If ubuntu-deskto had a versioned dep on esound, you could force that.
[10:19] <mdz> pitti: even if we add an explicit dep which only matches polypaudio, apt will generally prefer to remove ubuntu-meta rather than disturb so many other packages
[10:19] <pitti> crap
[10:20] <mdz> breakfast, bbiab
[10:20] <pitti> mdz: well, then I rather ask for more testing on u-devel first
[10:20] <pitti> Hey seb128 
[10:20] <mdz> pitti: it is a development branch; we don't need to clean everything up perfectly
[10:20] <mdz> if you feel there is a reasonable chance to get it working well, let's do it
[10:21] <pitti> yes, I feel so
[10:21] <pitti> on my desktop I experienced some crashes occasionally
[10:21] <seb128> hi pitti 
[10:21] <pitti> but we should be able to fix them
[10:21] <pitti> seb128: esound works again :-)
[10:21] <seb128> pitti: what have you changed?
[10:22] <pitti> seb128: snd_pcm_drain() sometimes triggered a race condition in the kernel driver
[10:22] <pitti> seb128: I disabled the call for now; that might cause a few sound hickups, but at least it doesn't hang your desktop
[10:23] <pitti> seb128: it's a workaround, not a real bugfix, but since it is so important, I wanted a quick solution
[10:23] <seb128> pitti: k
[10:23] <seb128> hey carlos 
[10:23] <carlos> morning
[10:24] <daniels> infinity: i'm sort of done now
[10:30] <infinity> daniels : Oh, I'm sort of not ready to be useful to you yet. :)
[10:30] <infinity> daniels : THe short answer to dir -> symlink transitions is "ship the symlink, test if it's a link in postinst, if not, make it one"
[10:30] <infinity> daniels : Doing it in preinst does VERY bad things.
[10:30] <daniels> oh?
[10:31] <infinity> daniels : The long answer is that you'll have to now cover some extra corner cases you've accidentally created cause you have files in that directory (unless you're positive those files can go away, then just rm -rf the thing)
[10:31] <seb128> mvo: around?
[10:32] <daniels> infinity: gnur
[10:32] <mvo> seb128: yes
[10:32] <\sh> daniels: libXi is now referenced by libxi-dev as b-d?
[10:32] <seb128> mvo: there is a new gnome-system-tools version upstream, do you work on it or should I?
[10:33] <daniels> \sh: what?
[10:33] <mvo> seb128: I won't be able to before I leave for vacation I think
[10:33] <\sh> something failed cause of missing libXi.so* 
[10:34] <\sh> so i need to include libxi-dev as b-d for this package..:(
[10:34] <seb128> mvo: k, so I'll do it. I'm just making sure to not dup the work
[10:34] <mvo> seb128: thanks!
[10:34] <seb128> np
[10:34] <seb128> mvo: have you done any work on desktop files/sudo? 
[10:34] <seb128> mvo: since you do some work on gksudo and so
[10:35] <mvo> seb128: what kind of work exactly? converting gksu -> gksudo in .desktop files?
[10:35] <daniels> \sh: yeah, always has (at least, since 4.3.0)
[10:35] <seb128> let's grab that somewhere else
[10:35] <daniels> \sh: if it failed, then it's never properly worked
[10:36] <\sh> daniels: hmmm
[10:36] <Kamion> fabbione: I can't quite see what happened to redhat-cluster-suite ... it may be in progress
[10:36] <\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libk/libkexif/0.2.1-2ubuntu1/ <- worked without
[10:37] <\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libk/libkexif/0.2.1-2ubuntu2/ <- didn't build :(
[10:37] <daniels> \sh: must've been an impliclt dependency, then
[10:37] <daniels> e.g. libkfoo-dev depended on libxi-dev
[10:37] <\sh> kdelibs4c2
[10:37] <\sh> so we have to have a look there
[10:39] <doko> carlos: pong
[10:40] <Kamion> mdz: apparently the live CD rootfs-building script adds xresprobe and laptop-detect to all live CDs
[10:40] <Kamion> mdz: should we just put those in the seed?
[10:40] <carlos> doko, libcpp and libstdc++ have .po files but Debian and Ubuntu are not installing .mo files for them, only for gcc. How is that?
[10:40] <mdz> Kamion: yes, and remove them from the script
[10:41] <daniels> fabbione: dude, can you remember how to parse m-i-r output?
[10:41] <daniels> i'm looking at it now, and it makes no frigging sense
[10:43] <fabbione> Kamion: don't worry... apparently a bunch of packages upload has been queued with a long delay.. it's pretty strange.. but well
[10:43] <fabbione> daniels: not at all...
[10:44] <daniels> ok, think I've sorted it out now
[10:44] <daniels> there was a bug in m-i-r, some completely backwards code which totally broke the purpose it was put there for in the first place and made no sense whatsoever
[10:45] <fabbione> Kamion: p-a-l should have never existed...
[10:45] <Lathiat> whats m-i-r?
[10:45] <fabbione> Kamion: all the stuff is already in partman-auto and partman-lvm...
[10:45] <daniels> that and some behaviour which I think shouldn't be there at all
[10:45] <daniels> Lathiat: manifest-install-reconcile
[10:45] <fabbione> Kamion: p-a-l is just a badly copy&paste of the 2 above...
[10:46] <daniels> Lathiat: some absolutely crack script which is meant to tell you what is and isn't being installed in the xorg package
[10:46] <daniels> Lathiat: i.e. files make install installs, but aren't in any packages
[10:46] <fabbione> Kamion: definetely it is worth a redisign from scratch, but the changes required in partman-auto and partman-lvm are big to make it for breezy....
[10:46] <Kamion> fabbione: I think it was a prototype of recipe parsing
[10:46] <Kamion> fabbione: but dude, talk to Anton about this, I so don't know anything about it
[10:47] <fabbione> Kamion: yeah.. 
[10:48] <doko> carlos: libstdc++ only contains yes/no. IIRC these po files are not the final word. libcpp has the po files in gcc-4.0-locales.
[10:49] <carlos> doko, does it means libstdc++ is not used at all?
[10:50] <carlos> pitti, Yesterday I started fixing the review-* potemplates I hope all those will be killed at the end of this week
[10:51] <carlos> pitti, seb128: Is the gnome-panel's 'About Ubuntu' string supposed to be inside the gnome-panel's .pot file?
[10:51] <seb128> carlos: that's a desktop file ...
[10:51] <carlos> pitti, seb128 if the answer is 'yes' we have a problem with the Hoary's .pot file
[10:51] <carlos> seb128, oh!
[10:51] <seb128> carlos: no, that's a debian/....destkop not listed by POTFILES
[10:52] <carlos> seb128, we need it inside POTFILES if you want to get it translated with Ubuntu
[10:52] <carlos> seb128, or as its own .pot file
[10:52] <seb128> I know, but I did a lot of translations hack before hoary
[10:53] <doko> carlos: only in the testsuite
[10:53] <carlos> doko, https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/gcc-4.0/+pots/libstdc++/de/+translate
[10:53] <seb128> carlos: there was no point to hack that before hoary, keeping translation updates with bugzilla was already some good work
[10:54] <carlos> doko, ok, I will mark it then as 'ignore' or is it useful to get other transaltions for the test suite?
[10:54] <seb128> pitti: DOH, bug flood since yesterday
[10:55] <carlos> seb128, hoary does not supports .desktop translations so it's ok, but please fix that for breezy (if it's not already) so we can get those translations if we get .desktop support in place on time
[10:55] <doko> carlos: ignore is ok, unless you want to extend the testsuite ;-P
[10:55] <seb128> carlos: sure
[10:55] <carlos> doko, ok
[10:56] <carlos> seb128, thanks
[10:56] <seb128> np
[10:56] <pitti> back from breakfast
[10:56] <carlos> pitti, how should we handle the packages I detect that does not have a .pot file?
[10:56] <carlos> pitti, is a bug report against it ok for you?
[10:56] <pitti> carlos: we have to fix them for breezy
[10:57] <pitti> carlos: no need for a bug, I monitor them
[10:57] <carlos> pitti, universe included?
[10:57] <pitti> carlos: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/dload-strippedtar.txt
[10:57] <pitti> carlos: that's the report from the automatic daily import
[10:57] <pitti> carlos: no, not universe
[10:57] <carlos> pitti, should we get anyone from Universe to take care of those packages?
[10:58] <carlos> I mean, any universe maintainer
[10:58] <pitti> carlos: it would be nice to have a list
[10:58] <pitti> yes, of course
[10:58] <pitti> might even be better to ask Debian maintainers
[10:58] <pitti> lots of my "generate pot file" patches were already adopted in Debian
[10:58] <carlos> oh, cool
[11:00] <carlos> pitti, is it too difficult to create the same .txt for universe?
[11:00] <pitti> carlos: no, actually not
[11:01] <carlos> pitti, please, do it then so we can know which upstream packages should be bugged about it :-)
[11:01] <carlos> it's not urgent
[11:01] <pitti> alright, I add it to my todo list
[11:01] <carlos> so do it when you have some spare time
[11:01] <carlos> pitti, thank you
[11:05] <sabdf1> carlos: i have a very nice surprise for you today
[11:05] <sabdf1> last night's late work
[11:07] <Kamion> mdz: I think I'd better mail ubuntu-devel@ about UVF ...
[11:08] <mdz> Kamion: agreed
[11:10] <carlos> sabdf1, is it related to a suggestion language selection?
[11:10] <carlos> sabdf1, or a new one? :-P
[11:10] <sabdf1> carlos: new one, part of rosetta that's been ugly for a while (i wrote the ugly bit too, but it's been nagging at me)
[11:10] <Kamion> mdz: I'll move the merge deadline out a week on the release schedule, like we discussed
[11:10] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[11:10] <carlos> sabdf1, cool
[11:17] <seb128> Kamion, mdz: can one of you promote docbook2x (approved by pitti for gnome-doc-utils) and libexchange-storage1.2-dev (lib for evolution-exchange moved) to main the corresponding ftbfses?
[11:18] <seb128> to fix the ftbfses
[11:19] <jordi> seb128: btw, we should fixup all the evo-data-server mess in Debian
[11:19] <jordi> we have two e-d-s' now, thanks to takuo
[11:19] <seb128> jordi: that doesn't hurt
[11:19] <seb128> they are versionned
[11:22] <jordi> it's a messa nyway.
[11:22] <jordi> we only want one
[11:22] <Kamion> seb128: done
[11:22] <seb128> Kamion: thanks
[11:23] <jordi> when are you taking over evolution for Debian anyway? :)
[11:23] <seb128> jordi: we have enough to do without taking over eds
[11:23] <seb128> jordi: no way
[11:23] <jordi> seb128: yeah, someone needs to package ephy
[11:23] <seb128> jordi: I'm not the one doing NMUs on it :p
[11:23] <jordi> heh
[11:28] <pitti> seb128: so libgnome is the library that is responsible for playing sound events?
[11:29] <pitti> seb128: I'd like to make them work with polypaudio
[11:29] <seb128> pitti: yep
[11:30] <mjg59> mdz: Around?
[11:30] <mdz> mjg59: yes, but in a meeting
[11:30] <mdz> mjg59: coming to london today?
[11:31] <mjg59> Yup
[11:31] <mjg59> Where/when would be good?
[11:36] <mdz> mjg59: fieldwave office / the sooner the better
[11:37] <mjg59> mdz: Where's the fieldwave office?
[11:37] <sabdf1> mjg59: axiscross house, mossop st, off draycott ave
[11:38] <sabdf1> between the admiral codrington and the australian, in pub coordinates :-)
[11:42] <mdke> you guys go by pub coordinates eh...
[11:42] <mdke> now I know why Ubuntu is such a smooth successful distro
[11:43] <pitti> daniels: dangling /etc/X11/X symlink is a known issue?
[11:44] <pitti> it did not just bite me
[12:06] <mjg59> mdz: Ok, ought to be there shortly before 1
[12:06] <mdz> mjg59: wonderful, see you there
[12:10] <fabbione> hmmm food time
[12:11] <fabbione> maswan: if you are around.. buttercup died again
[12:20] <mpt> mako: ping
[12:22] <mpt> mako: deping
[12:24] <maswan> fabbione: I'll try to remember that within the next couple of hours
[12:24] <fabbione> maswan: thanks.. there is no rush..
[12:24] <fabbione> it died one or two days ago
[12:25] <fabbione> i think there is one package (always the same) that manage to crash the box at build time
[12:25] <maswan> well, if i don't get to it before friday, I'll be in HEL instead of here
[12:26] <fabbione> maswan: that's ok.. don't make it a high priority thing
[12:26] <fabbione> thanks a lot!
[12:26] <fabbione> time to start cooking :)
[12:28] <terrex> follows Malone the same numeration of bugs that Bugzilla?
[12:29] <sabdf1> jamesh: which was that branch of yours with the fix? can i just merge it directly fro you? need it before i can add the page tests :-)
[12:30] <Kamion> terrex: no
[12:31] <sabdf1> oww
[12:31] <jamesh> sabdf1: the +ubuntupkg one? james.henstridge@canonical.com--2004/launchpad--smallfixes--0
[12:31] <sabdf1> jamesh: thanks. sorry, ww :-)
[12:31] <jamesh> :)
[12:47] <Kamion> mdz: debconf-communicate needs some more fixing to work the way you're using it
[12:48] <Kamion> mdz: (namely, it doesn't currently autoflush STDOUT - working on it)
[01:00] <Mez> ogra: ping
[01:00] <ogra> Mez, ?
[01:00] <Mez> any chance of getting k3b bugs auto-assigned to me?
[01:00] <Mez> I asked kiko - he said to get it cleared with you
[01:01] <Mez> ogra, I mean for bugzilla, in case you hadnt figured... seeing as I'm now maintaining K3b :D (even if it is through sponsored uploads)
[01:05] <Mez> lol @ ogra...
[01:05] <Mez> crash ?
[01:06] <ogra_> Mez, riddell seems to be happy with it, if he approves i'm fine to have them assigned to you and him for now, but i'd like you having upload rights first before you get them alone...
[01:06] <ogra_> nope, daily disconnect :)
[01:06] <Mez> ogra... I'll poke riddell then :D
[01:06] <Mez> and I'm working towards upload rights, as you darn well knoe :D
[01:06] <ogra_> :)
[01:06] <ogra_> yep, i know :)
[01:07] <Mez> riddell - that cool with you?
[01:07] <Mez> k3b bugs assigned to us both ?
[01:07] <Riddell> Mez: sure
[01:07] <Mez> there yo go ogra ;)
[01:07] <Kamion> I don't think bugs can have multiple assignees
[01:07] <mako> mpt: i'm here.. although quite scrambling
[01:07] <Kamion> you can have an assignee and a QA contact
[01:07] <zyga> hello
[01:07] <Kamion> but the QA contact should probably just be kubuntu-bugs@?
[01:08] <Mez> well... wouldnt it make sense to have me as asignee and riddell as QA?
[01:08] <Mez> but /me shrugs
[01:08] <Mez> tis up to ogra
[01:08] <mpt> mako: Sorry, "deping" means "cancel that ping" -- I had a question about Condorcet, but found the answer myself
[01:08] <Riddell> kubuntu-bugs should remain as QA
[01:08] <mdz> pitti: language-pack-en seems to be removed on dist-upgrade due to openoffice.org-thesaurus-en-us
[01:08] <ogra_> Riddell, with this address you get them on your desk ? 
[01:09] <Lathiat> mpt: heh you say 'deping' too
[01:09] <Riddell> ogra_: yes
[01:09] <ogra_> Riddell, ok, just want to make sure youre seeing what goes on in your universe ;)
[01:09] <Mez> is kubuntu-bugs on gmane ?
[01:09] <Riddell> Mez: no idea
[01:09] <doko> mdz, pitti: we don't have the thesaurus for oo2 yet.
[01:10] <Mez> nah it isnt
[01:10] <Mez> Riddel... can I add it?
[01:10] <Riddell> Mez: sure
[01:10] <zyga> file roller crashes when extracting files from zip archive with incorrect filename encoding 
[01:10] <Mez> whats the permissions for it?
[01:10] <Mez> read only?
[01:11] <Mez> posting allowe?
[01:11] <zyga> should I file a bug/
[01:11] <Riddell> Mez: read only
[01:11] <pitti> mdz: you mean the support package?
[01:11] <ogra_> Mez, i cant edit components in bugzilla... we probaby need mdz
[01:12] <mdz> pitti: ah, yes
[01:12] <Mez> kiko can and will
[01:12] <ogra_> Mez, ok
[01:12] <Mez> or msz...
[01:12] <Mez> seeing as he's here
[01:12] <zyga> http://pastebin.com/308280
[01:13] <zyga> It crashes in glib so I think it's relevant
[01:13] <mdz> doko: where is the conflict with the oo.o1 thesaurus?
[01:14] <mdz> ogra_: what do you need?
[01:15] <ogra_> mdz, Riddel and Mez want to share the bugload for k3b, so Mez should be added as asigee to k3b... QA contact for kubuntu-bugs shall remain
[01:15] <doko> mdz: there is no conflict, it's not yet built for oo.o2. afaik, the format did change as well, so you cannot use the oo.o1 thesaurus with oo.o2
[01:15] <mdz> ogra_: ok, will do
[01:15] <ogra_> mdz, thanks 
[01:15] <mdz> doko: installing openoffice.org2-base removes openoffice.org-thesaurus-en-us
[01:16] <Mez> mdz, thanks
[01:16] <mdz> doko: there is a conflict somewhere
[01:17] <mdz> Mez,Riddell: done
[01:18] <Mez> cool
[01:18] <Mez> well I should go and get my eyes checked now really
[01:19] <doko> mdz: it's a direct conflict in openoffice.org2-core. Suggest openoffice.org2-thesaurus; conflict against
[01:19] <doko>       openoffice.org-thesaurus once we have a solution to let both co-exist
[01:19] <doko>       with the "normal" dictionaries-common system.
[01:19] <doko>       (They are incompatible and The OOo1 Thesauri make OOo2 crash..) [RE] 
[01:19] <doko>     - add openoffice.org2-officebean [RE] 
[01:21] <Treenaks> yay for OOo
[01:22] <mdz> doko: ah, I see
[01:22] <doko> did somebody see my openoffice.org2_1.9.113-0ubuntu2 getting accepted? I didn't get a message
[01:22] <ogra_> Treenaks, i cant even open ooo2 stuff here :/ so it seems with breezy amd64 is incompatible with the rest of the world :(
[01:23] <Treenaks> ogra_: I had to install 512M of extra memory to be able to even /boot/ OOo2 on my work box
[01:23] <Treenaks> ogra_: ok, it's SuSE, but that's no excuse
[01:23] <ogra_> heh
[01:24] <doko> Treenaks: yes, OOo2 with less than 512MB sucks
[01:26] <Treenaks> doko: are "they" working on that?
[01:26] <doko> Kamion, mdz, elmo: is my openoffice.org2_1.9.113-0ubuntu2 getting accepted? I didn't get a message, but got one for a later upload
[01:26] <zyga> #12437 if anyone would like to review
[01:26] <doko> Treenaks: did you ever see an application shrink?
[01:26] <pitti> doko: some uploads silently disappeared since yesterday
[01:26] <Treenaks> doko: yes.
[01:27] <ogra_> doko, sure... after a rewrite :)
[01:27] <Treenaks> ogra_: gnome is shrinking...
[01:27] <ogra_> Treenaks, thats not an app :)
[01:27] <doko> pitti: try a re-upload?
[01:27] <Treenaks> ogra_: it's a collection of apps
[01:27] <pitti> doko: I already did, it didn't help
[01:27] <pitti> doko: that's really an elmoish problem
[01:29] <hunger> new gnome-doc-utils depend on libxml2-python2.3 for some reason.
[01:30] <Riddell> is it possible to explicity ignore a package from shlib:depends?
[01:30] <Kamion> doko: I can't see it anywhere ...
[01:31] <Kamion> ug, there's a load of stuff in queue/unchecked
[01:32] <Kamion> doko: your upload's there; I think something's crashing
[01:34] <pitti> Kamion: do you also see two serendipity and redhat-cluster-tools uploads?
[01:34] <pitti> Kamion: s/serendipity/serpentine/
[01:35] <Kamion> E: libsigcx-gtk-0.6-1c2 in breezy is in the overrides more than once.
[01:35] <Kamion> pitti: two serpentine, one redhat-cluster-tools
[01:35] <pitti> right
[01:35] <pitti> so they were not competely lost
[01:35] <Kamion> don't worry, it's almost certainly all there
[01:36] <Kamion> I'll fix
[01:36] <pitti> Kamion: oh, you can? great
[01:36] <Kamion> should be able to, yes
[01:39] <Kamion>     section    | priority |   name
[01:39] <Kamion> ---------------+----------+----------
[01:39] <Kamion>  universe/libs | optional | main
[01:39] <Kamion>  universe/libs | optional | universe
[01:39] <Kamion> ok, what the hell happened here
[01:39] <pitti> ouch
[01:39] <mako> mpt: cool :)
[01:39] <mako> mpt: i think i read that "reping"
[01:40] <mpt> !ping
[01:40] <mpt> unping
[01:40] <mpt> good good
[01:42] <Kamion> mdz: <lock> on katie overrides
[01:44] <mdz> Kamion: ack

[01:44] <fabbione> Kamion: while you are at it, could you also fix gnome-alsamixer to be really in universe?
[01:44] <zul> Emmanual, as he will have to give you some guidance as to
[01:44] <zul> what time to come in on Monday, etc.  I will prepare an
[01:44] <zul> Employment Agreement for you to sign - I'll email it later
[01:44] <zul> today.
[01:44] <zul> Lynn
[01:45] <Kamion> fabbione: it already is
[01:45] <fabbione> zul: you keep surprising me :)
[01:45] <zul> frig...stupid xchat
[01:45] <Kamion> gnome-alsamixer |    0.9.6-1 | breezy/universe | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[01:45] <fabbione> Kamion: yes.. but for some reasons wanna-build keeps trying to fetch it from main.. or consider it so
[01:45] <doko> firefox constantly crashes, when I try to edit the BreezyGoals page ... :-(
[01:45] <Kamion> queue/unchecked is emptying now
[01:46] <fabbione> Kamion: do we need to reupload or it has been processed?
[01:46] <Kamion> Rejected: 'dpkg-source -x' failed for openoffice.org2_1.9.113-0ubuntu2.dsc [return code: 6400] .
[01:46] <Kamion>  [dpkg-source output:]  dpkg-source: error: file openoffice.org2_1.9.113.orig.tar.gz has size 195858972 instead of expected 196996782
[01:46] <Kamion> doko: ^--
[01:46] <Kamion> fabbione: no, existing uploads were just sitting there, it's fine
[01:46] <fabbione> ok thanks
[01:47] <Kamion> redhat-cluster-suite_1.20050706-0ubuntu1_source.changes
[01:47] <Kamion> ACCEPT
[01:47] <fabbione> DANKE
[01:48] <doko> Kamion: argh, yes, thanks, I remember ...
[01:49] <fabbione> Kamion: i dunno the changes that elmo did to katie.. but the new redhat-cluster-suite will add 2 new binaries..
[01:49] <fabbione> not sure if you need to do more than what you already did
[01:50] <Kamion> fabbione: they'll hit NEW once the buildds build the binaries
[01:50] <fabbione> ok thanks
[01:51] <fabbione> Kamion: if you will be the one processing them.. the 2 new bins can just go and float in universe..
[01:51] <Kamion> ok
[01:51] <Kamion> they would anyway
[01:52] <fabbione> just to be sure :)
[01:52] <lifeless> is elmo around at the moment ?
[01:52] <Kamion> lifeless: moving house
[01:52] <lifeless> or is someone filling for him ?
[01:52] <Kamion> depends which role
[01:52] <Kamion> I'm doing urgent Ubuntu archive maintenance when necessary
[01:52] <lifeless> mail to team@bazaar.canonical.com is timing out contact the server
[01:52] <Kamion> can't help you there ...
[01:53] <lifeless> ok
[01:53] <lifeless> I'll sms him
[01:58] <doko> hmm, please could somebody try to verify a firefox crash, that pressing the left cursor key, when editing the http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals page (line OpenOffice2) ?
[02:01] <ogra_> doko, is your ff upto date ? i had this bug with the last version but its gone quite a while now
[02:02] <carlos> ogra_, I think I filed that bug and it was with hoary
[02:02] <ogra_> carlos, i had it on amd64 with breezy... but only til last update
[02:05] <ogra_> doko, mozex.mozdev.org/
[02:07] <doko> I see it on i386 and amd64
[02:07] <doko> current breezy
[02:12] <camilotelles> mdz, hi there.
[02:20] <carlos> pitti, breezy transaltions are being imported into production today
[02:20] <carlos> pitti, I think it will take a while (easily, a couple of days)
[02:20] <carlos> pitti, just in case you want to check anything
[02:20] <pitti> yay
[02:21] <pitti> carlos: indeed, that outcome will decide the direction of language packs
[02:21] <pitti> carlos: do you have an estimation of how many of breezy's po files are actually changed by rosetta? I. e. received new translations?
[02:22] <carlos> pitti, no easy way to know that, why?
[02:22] <carlos> pitti, at the moment I doub we have any change
[02:22] <carlos> as the .po files are still being imported
[02:23] <pitti> carlos: but we already received many hoary updates
[02:23] <carlos> and the changes done to hoary are not yet automatically applied to breezy
[02:23] <pitti> carlos: oh, but they certainly will in the future?
[02:23] <carlos> pitti, they appear as suggestions, someone needs to select them
[02:23] <carlos> pitti, yes
[02:23] <pitti> I mean, as long as the strings don't change, they can be reused?
[02:23] <pitti> ok, fine
[02:23] <carlos> pitti, yes, that's the plan
[02:23] <carlos> I hope we will have that done before breezy release or at the same time
[02:34] <mdz> camilotelles: hello
[02:34] <camilotelles> mdz, how is going UE? we can help in anything?
[02:41] <camilotelles> mdz, i saw in the wiki that you are working in the backend.
[03:04] <lamont> Kamion: redhat-cluster-suite is Uploaded on i386,amd64,ia64, needs-build on the other 3
[03:04] <Kamion> lamont: yep, already NEWed
[03:05] <lamont> Kamion: actually, since it links with ld (violates gcc spec), it's FTBFS on hppa
[03:07] <tvo> is there actually any difference between tla and baz, except the latter being writting in C and the first not?
[03:07] <Kamion> tvo: your "except" is not true
[03:08] <Kamion> baz is a branch of tla aiming at user interface improvements
[03:08] <Kamion> it is written in C
[03:08] <Kamion> as is tla
[03:08] <tvo> ah because I don't see any differences yet, but I'm still learning....
[03:09] <Kamion> better mirror support and better signed-archive support are perhaps the most obvious
[03:09] <Kamion> along with various UI cleanups
[03:10] <Kamion> the release notes are on bazaar.canonical.com, you could look there
[03:10] <Kamion> under Downloads
[03:11] <Kamion> oh, and better URL support, mesh-merging, conflict marking, diff, switch
[03:13] <tvo> Kamion: thanks for the info
[03:19] <zyga> is baz compatible with tla?
[03:19] <zyga> totally compatible I mean
[03:19] <lamont> zyga: baz can use tla archives, you can tell it to create a tla-compatible archive
[03:19] <zyga> lamont: good enough
[03:19] <Kamion> it's not completely command-line compatible in the sense that you can't take scripts that call tla and s/tla/baz/g
[03:19] <lamont> but some of the improvements have required archive internal changes
[03:20] <zyga> hmm I see
[03:20] <Kamion> but it wasn't meant to be - tla is staying in basically its current command-line form as a scriptable reference client
[03:20] <zyga> I use tla ATM and I'm about to move another project without any vms to tla
[03:20] <zyga> but I've heard about baz recently
[03:20] <Kamion> since much of what was awful in tla was the command-line interface, breaking that was OK :-)
[03:20] <Kamion> all the same, most of it should be familiar to you
[03:21] <zyga> tla is okay once command line verbosity/obscurity is through one's head
[03:22] <Kamion> not having to do ultra-strange things to set up signed archives is very nice
[03:22] <Kamion> you might only do them once yourself, but every time you have to explain it to somebody else ...
[03:22] <zyga> hmm? strange things
[03:23] <zyga> --signed and =default stuff 
[03:23] <Kamion> ~/.arch-params/signing/blah
[03:23] <zyga> ;)
[03:23] <zyga> both are onle liners
[03:23] <Kamion> baz doesn't require any of that
[03:23] <Kamion> no-liners better than one-liners
[03:23] <zyga> :)
[03:23] <Kamion> well, --signed yes
[03:23] <zyga> well good reading is still required since tla is totally different from cvs/svn
[03:26] <thom> is it just me or is OOo utterly hosed on amd64 - looks like ia32-libs is very unhappy
[03:28] <lamont> Kamion: I thought --signed was the default these  days
[03:29] <doko> thom: ia32-libs wasn't updated for breezy.
[03:30] <mdke> where is elmo these days?
[03:31] <thom> doko: /usr/lib32/ is a symlink to /emul/<something> (my amd64 is off atm) which doesn't exist
[03:31] <thom> mdke: moving
[03:31] <lamont> mdke: I'm betting he's in london
[03:31] <mdke> aha
[03:31] <mdke> everyone is moving house right now
[03:31] <mdke> :)
[03:31] <doko> thom: breezy or unstable?
[03:31] <thom> doko: breezy
[03:32] <doko> upgraded from debian, or fresh install?
[03:32] <thom> upgraded from hoary
[03:32] <tseng> thom: should i remove networking script from my runlevel, or will it do something useful with nm?
[03:32] <tseng> in the future
[03:33] <doko> thom: remove it, then reinstall ia32-libs*, lib32*
[03:33] <thom> tseng: i'd leave it; in the future there might be something clever done
[03:33] <thom> doko: ok
[03:33] <doko> Mithrandir: does this need a better upgrade procedure? ^^^
[03:34] <doko> hmm, he's not there
[03:34] <thom> doko: given that it utterly horks OOo, yes, i'd say it does
[03:37] <hunger> debian has sdparm (hdparm for scsi disks) now... how about importing it into ubuntu?
[03:39] <seb128> pitti: thanks for the work on serpentine
[03:40] <pitti> seb128: you're welcome :-) does it work for you now, too?
[03:40] <pitti> seb128: I happily burned 3 CDs with it yesterday
[03:41] <seb128> pitti: not tried, waiting to get the updates
[03:41] <pitti> although the backend design is utter crack, it at least works
[03:41] <pitti> seb128: yeah, the upload was not accepted until Kamion fixed the queue some hours ago
[03:42] <ogra> hum, i should have mentioned the update in my mail
[03:42] <pitti> ogra: btw, since putting bugs in bugzilla for already solved issues is not really sensible, and some patches are more like workarounds than proper fixes, can you forward the patches upstream?
[03:42] <Kamion> lamont: make-archive --help doesn't suggest so but the help isn't always 100% accurate
[03:42] <KaiL> is there any known problem big with hal on breezy?
[03:43] <ogra> pitti, i'll mention them in my mail
[03:43] <pitti> KaiL: what do you mean in particular?
[03:44] <KaiL> well, for me it doesn't see partitions on USB-Sticks, for Riddell no (internal) cdroms :)
[03:46] <zyga> seb128: thanks for the quick reply on my bug report
[03:46] <pitti> KaiL: please file a bug and send along dmesg and lshal outputs
[03:46] <zyga> seb128: will hoary ever get that update?
[03:47] <seb128> zyga: what bug is yours? I've replied to like 40 bugs since this morning
[03:48] <zyga> seb128: file-roller
[03:48] <seb128> oh, no, no new version
[03:48] <seb128> a small patch could be a candidate for an hoary-updates upload
[03:49] <zyga> seb128: I see, the current version is just 'too' new, right?
[03:49] <seb128> nop, we just don't change versions on a stable distro
[03:49] <seb128> we patch for issues, but that needs some investigation/work to get the patch, etc
[03:50] <seb128> I'm pretty busy, better to fix some crasher on the current version than tackling a bug already fixed which doesn't happen a lot
[04:14] <davyd> did breezy recently get a new major libc6 version?
[04:19] <mjg59> ogra: mdz asks if I can be given access to the hwdb
[04:21] <mdke> mjg59, mdz, just saw the new laptop pages, is it cool if i do some formatting, maybe add titles etc?
[04:22] <mjg59> mdke: Sure, no problem
[04:22] <mjg59> ogra: Also, is there a list of MOTU members anywhere?
[04:22] <mdke> cool
[04:23] <ogra> mjg59, see /msg and the MOTU list is on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[04:27] <Lathiat> mjg59: suggestion fo rthe laptop testing spec, see if the laptop suspends and resumes a second time
[04:27] <mjg59> Lathiat: Sure - add it to the wiki
[04:31] <tepsipakki> latest rhythmbox broke rbscrobbler because something in the bonobo-interface has been changed. How do I find the new hooks in rb?
[04:31] <tepsipakki> (of course rb-applet broke as well)
[04:31] <mxpxpod> jbailey: ping
[04:32] <jbailey> mxpxpod: pong
[04:32] <mxpxpod> jbailey: any progress on my bug?
[04:32] <jbailey> mxpxpod: I've got my machine almost completely apt-get upgraded now.
[04:32] <mxpxpod> awesome
[04:33] <mxpxpod> jbailey: I'm anxious to see if it's isolated to my machine
[04:33] <jbailey> Looks like I'm updated, rebooting.
[04:34] <Kamion> davyd: not recently; some time back
[04:36] <mgalvin> hi all, how do i determin which packages dep on other package...
[04:36] <Lathiat> mgalvin: apt-cache rdepends
[04:36] <mgalvin> for example, is there a way to find out if any packages depend on cegui
[04:36] <mgalvin> Lathiat, thnx
[04:37] <lamont> Kamion: coreutils/procps both delivering kill.1 manpage - I thought you said that was fixed???
[04:39] <Kamion> lamont: no, I sent patches
[04:39] <lamont> ah, ok.
[04:39] <Kamion> 'cos it needed dbs changes too
[04:39] <lamont> ew
[04:39] <Kamion> (ideally)
[04:39] <Riddell> can I upload a package with section of non-free/doc ?
[04:39] <Kamion> dbs ships dpkg-arch.mk, you see ...
[04:39] <lamont> and hence we're not sure how it'll really get fixed, so it's best to wait for debian for a day or 6, yes?
[04:39] <Kamion> Riddell: technically yes; it'll probably go to multiverse
[04:40] <Kamion> lamont: right, pretty much, I thought I'd give the dbs maintainer a chance to decide
[04:40] <lamont> is it true that dbs is being rewritten in php4?
[04:40] <Kamion> !
[04:40] <Riddell> Kamion: this is FDL licenced stuff, should I change the section to just doc?
[04:40] <Kamion> Riddell: leave the section as it is, that's what archive overrides are for
[04:42] <mxpxpod> jbailey: so, how's it working?
[04:44] <jbailey> It's libwnck that you're seeing it in, yes?  Lemme fire up a gnome terminal then.
[04:44] <mxpxpod> jbailey: yessir
[04:44] <jbailey> What app are you showing up the error in?
[04:44] <mxpxpod> /usr/lib/gnome-panel/wnck-applet
[04:45] <mxpxpod> this is from memory, so that may not be right
[04:45] <jbailey> No error.
[04:45] <mxpxpod> what????
[04:45] <mxpxpod> damn
[04:45] <mxpxpod> so now I have to figure out what's frelled on my system
[04:46] <mxpxpod> this isn't fair :)
[04:46] <Riddell> malex: how come scribus-doc includes both the GNU FDL and open publication licence?
[04:47] <lamont> Kamion: I only mention it because it blocks gcc-4.0 :-(
[04:47] <mxpxpod> jbailey: when I get home tonight, can you help me figure this out?
[04:47] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Start with "ldd /usr/lib/gnome-panel/wnck-applet" and make sure everything points to /usr/lib
[04:47] <jbailey> mxpxpod: When is tonight for you? =)
[04:47] <mxpxpod> jbailey: 6:00 PM CST
[04:47] <lamont> Kamion: well, gcc-4.0/hppa at least
[04:48] <jbailey> mxpxpod: CST, like north america?
[04:48] <mxpxpod> jbailey: yes, like Iowa
[04:48] <jbailey> Ah, I had forgotten you were american.
[04:48] <jbailey> Yes, I should be around a bit after that.
[04:49] <mxpxpod> jbailey: cool
[04:49] <mxpxpod> jbailey: this is just really frustrating
[04:50] <jbailey> mxpxpod: I understand.  I'm setup to actually help you now, though.
[04:50] <mxpxpod> jbailey: I've considered re-installing all my packages :)
[04:51] <mxpxpod> jbailey: my lunch is in 2 hours... can you help me then?
[04:51] <mxpxpod> my boss wouldn't think it too keen to work on my laptop and get paid for it
[04:51] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Not really - that's about my lunch break too and I need to buy a fridge.
[04:51] <mxpxpod> :)
[04:51] <mxpxpod> suckage
[04:52] <jbailey> Well, it's certainly interesting.
[04:52] <mxpxpod> you're telling me
[04:52] <Kamion> lamont: ok, I'll do a quick hack-fix in coreutils/ubuntu
[04:53] <lamont> Kamion: any time in the next 24 hours or so would be wonderful. :-)
[04:54] <lamont> hppa has a pretty large hysteresis 
[04:55] <mxpxpod> jbailey: well, I would pull out my laptop and work on this, but my boss is right across the hall from me right now :)
[04:57] <jbailey> *lol*
[04:57] <jbailey> Please don't get fired on my account. =)
[04:58] <mxpxpod> jbailey: :D
[04:58] <mxpxpod> jbailey: how long will it take to buy a fridge?
[04:59] <lamont> mxpxpod: that depends on the "kill vs shop mentality" decision
[05:00] <lamont> ISTR buying a fridge once with < 30 minutes in the store
[05:00] <mxpxpod> :D
[05:01] <lamont> Kamion: that is, even without the fix, hppa has plenty to do for a while yet.  So stalling another day or 2 won't really hurt me.  Once it hurts main, then we have an issue.
[05:01] <lamont> but I think that requires that coreutils or procps get uploaded
[05:02] <jbailey> Part of the trick to fridge shopping is to get a reasonable price.
[05:02] <jbailey> Picking the fridge will take 2 or 3 minutes.
[05:02] <jbailey> "Has freezer.  Is frost-free"
[05:02] <jbailey> Stove: "Has self clean"
[05:03] <jbailey> Washer/dryer: "Is cheap"
[05:03] <lamont> jbailey: sometimes picking the fridge is 2-3 hours.  depends on wife's mood
[05:03] <jbailey> lamont: Right.  But you see, I have some leverage.
[05:03] <Kamion> lamont: I'm just testing the fix now
[05:03] <jbailey> We don't have a fridge at all right now, and we just spent $1000 or so to move between provinces.
[05:04] <jbailey> So there's incentive to just pick the first one we see. =)
[05:04] <lamont> jbailey: and who's choice was it to move?
[05:04] <lamont> yeah
[05:04] <lamont> kill-mentality
[05:04] <jbailey> Depends if you're with revenue canada or not.
[05:04] <mdz> does anyone remember why we didn't add the bluez stack to the default desktop?
[05:04] <jbailey> If you are, then I was moving to be closer to Bjorn and Brad.
[05:05] <jbailey> (Thus making the move for work)
[05:05] <lamont> jbailey: good answer
[05:05] <lamont> mdz: that's bluetooth?
[05:05] <ogra> mdz, because it was the job of the guy responsible for the goal ? 
[05:06] <ogra> ah, and its a bounty now
[05:07] <ivoks> khm... iproute has one nasty bug, fixed in 3.1, but not in hoary
[05:07] <ivoks> causes 100% proc usage
[05:07] <ivoks> by user, not root
[05:07] <ogra> ivoks, good catch, bug it :)
[05:08] <ivoks> it allready is
[05:08] <ogra> great
[05:08] <ivoks> should i fix it?
[05:08] <ivoks> :)
[05:08] <ogra> sure
[05:08] <ivoks> it's in main
[05:08] <ogra> fix it, attach the patch to the bug ;)
[05:08] <ivoks> ok
[05:09] <Riddell> "Failed to fetch http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  MD5Sum mismatch
[05:09] <Riddell> "
[05:10] <pitti> seb128: now this trouble also exists in sid
[05:10] <ivoks> hm..
[05:10] <seb128> pitti: esound?
[05:10] <pitti> seb128: my sid pbuilder failed horribly because of that md5sum mismatch thingy
[05:10] <ivoks> it's kernel related patch
[05:10] <pitti> seb128: no, apt
[05:10] <seb128> oh
[05:11] <ogra> ivoks, #ubuntu-kernel to discuss it ;)
[05:11] <mxpxpod> jbailey: ok, so if everything in my ldd of /usr/lib/libwnck-1.so.16 points to /usr/lib, then what?
[05:11] <pitti> seb128: I thought you kicked mvo because of Riddel's apt message :-)
[05:11] <seb128> pitti: I don't kick mvo about that :p
[05:11] <pitti> well, then *I* do :-)
[05:12] <pitti> seb128: Advanced Pain Tool :-)
[05:12] <seb128> pitti: I kick him because he has dropped all the references to the Ubuntu patches while syncing gnome-system-tools with Debian, so now to guess what patches are Ubuntu specific and what they do
[05:12] <jbailey> Well, let's stick to the binary that we're using rather than the library.
[05:12] <jbailey> In case the error message is wrong.
[05:12] <mxpxpod> jbailey: oh, right
[05:13] <pitti> seb128: we still have all earlier changelogs
[05:13] <seb128> pitti: right, but that would be good practice to mention what patches are used
[05:13] <pitti> mvo: fear the wrath of a furious French man!
[05:13] <mxpxpod> someone shoot me... I have to figure out visual foxpro
[05:14] <seb128> mxpxpod: still having your wnck issues?
[05:14] <mxpxpod> seb128: yes :(
[05:14] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Email me the output of this please: ldd /usr/lib/gnome-panel/wnck-applet | grep '=>' | awk '{ print $3 }' | sort
[05:14] <mxpxpod> seb128: but jbailey is going to help me out
[05:14] <jbailey> err
[05:14] <jbailey> sha1sum $(ldd /usr/lib/gnome-panel/wnck-applet | grep '=>' | awk '{ print $3 }' | sort)
[05:14] <Kamion> lamont: done
[05:14] <mxpxpod> jbailey: that's going to be difficult until I get home :)
[05:14] <mvo> seb128: if it's too anoying, I can do the merge (and fix the naming along the way)
[05:15] <pitti> thom: firefox having *one* static copy of zlib in the code is painful enough, but *two*?
[05:15] <jbailey> Ah, no command line mail?
[05:15] <thom> pitti: um? seriously?
[05:15] <mxpxpod> jbailey: no, I have to disconnect this computer to plug in my laptop
[05:15] <pitti> thom: in security/nss/cmd/zlib and modules/zlib/src
[05:16] <jbailey> mxpxpod: *lol*
[05:16] <seb128> mvo: nop, I'm done with it
[05:16] <pitti> thom: luckily both versions are old enough to not be affected by the recent issue
[05:16] <thom> pitti: hahaha
[05:16] <seb128> mvo: just it FTBFS now, seems you have dropped the relibtoolize patch
[05:16] <pitti> thom: but that might not be true for future vulns
[05:16] <mvo> seb128: yes, that's very possible
[05:16] <thom> pitti: good luck with that then
[05:21] <seb128> mvo: bah :p
[05:21] <ogra> mvo, i join him happily with all this educational alpha state php crap here... 
[05:21] <mvo> guys, releax, take a bit of vacation :)
[05:22] <ogra> mvo, GRRRRRRRRR
[05:22] <lamont> Kamion: thanks muchly
[05:22] <lamont> morning elmo
[05:22] <elmo> hey lamont
[05:23] <pitti> mvo: good idea, I think I pick Prague at Friday :-)
[05:23] <mvo> pitti: sounds like a good plan to me :) 
[05:36] <malex> Riddell: I just read your question about scribus-doc. It has GNU FDL-covered tutorials and the main docs are under OPLv1. They are written by different authors who licensed them differently.
[05:38] <Riddell> malex: how come it's in non-free but templates isn't?
[05:43] <ogra> Riddell, i'm looking for a way to unite KDE and gnome help files.... do you know of any project that tried it... ? (edubuntu will have a mixed desktop and khelpcenter doesnt allow me to suppress non installed apps from the tree)
[05:45] <Riddell> ogra: ubuntu-docs have tried havn't they?
[05:46] <ogra> Riddell, good point... i didnt think about that... thats for pointing out :)
[05:46] <mdke> we are shipping docs as html
[05:46] <mdke> so any browser should be able to open em
[05:46] <malex> Riddell: OPLv1 and FDL are not DFSG-free. scribus-template(1.2.1 only as there hasn't been an update for 1.2.2) is GPL.
[05:46] <mdke> yelp/khelpcenter
[05:46] <ogra> mdke, yes, but i'd have to hack up the apps (or at least the libs calling the help viewer) 
[05:47] <mdke> ah
[05:48] <mdke> btw, does anyone have some convenient webspace for the documentation team to host preview versions and status reports of their books?
[05:48] <ogra> mdke, i want the docs to show up either in the helpviewer of the currently used desktop or in a globally defined one.... using the KDE helpcenter seems not appropriate with this tons of links that point to nowhere
[05:49] <ogra> i'm wondering why they built it that way
[05:49] <mdke> ah i c
[05:49] <ogra> should be easy to shouw only apps in the tree that are actually installed
[05:49] <mdke> what happens with ubuntu at the moment?
[05:50] <mdke> if both kubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-desktop are installed
[05:50] <ogra> kubuntu just uses khelpcenter as is afaik... but Riddel might prove me wrong
[05:50] <ogra> Riddell even
[05:50] <Riddell> malex: scribus-template/debian/copyright says it's part public domain and part FDL
[05:50] <ogra> mdke, curretnly it happens as i described it above...
[05:51] <mdke> ogra, so any solution would maybe be best applied to ubuntu as well as edubuntu?
[05:51] <ogra> yep
[05:51] <ogra> ubuntu is my upstream, so finding a solution there would be the main target
[05:51] <Riddell> ogra: surely khelpcentre just doesn't show non-installed apps?
[05:52] <ogra> Riddell, if i click on help, the tree on the left is fully populated...
[05:52] <malex> Riddell: My mistake - you are right about the scribus-template. If it will be updated for 1.2.2 then I will upload an update into Debian/non-free.
[05:53] <Riddell> malex: ok, I was just checking that it wasn't me getting confused
[05:53] <mdke> ogra, i'm afraid I don't know much about how docs are registered, but you could mail our list, someone will know
[05:53] <ogra> mdke, i'll do... 
[05:53] <mdke> any takers on the request for webspace?
[05:53] <Lathiat> request for web space?
[05:54] <ogra> mdke, elmo is moving houses :) 
[05:54] <mdke> yeah
[05:54] <Riddell> malex: success so far http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/scribus/1.2.2.1-1ubuntu1/
[05:54] <ogra> so let him take a deep breath :)
[05:54] <ogra> mdke, and then poke again :)
[05:55] <mdz> jbailey: can we use the same approach you did in initramfs-tools to replace PCI coldplugging on boot?
[05:55] <mdke> ogra, i'm not asking for anything from elmo. Basically we are waiting on a server, until then, I was just looking for some space to host the docs temporarily. A kubuntu dev has provided some for the kde docs
[05:55] <mdz> jbailey: I assume it would be faster
[05:55] <malex> I'm trying to set up hoary and breezy chroots for building Scribus cvs packages, but debootstrap seems to be looking for "main" at http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu and fails. Is there a different archive or a different option to debootstrap?
[05:56] <ogra> mdke, ahh, i thought you mean the upcoming infrastructure
[05:56] <malex> Riddell: That's great that it builds fine. 
[05:56] <mdke> ogra, i'm sure one of us can do it if necessary
[05:56] <mdke> ogra, ah no we can be patient for that :D
[05:57] <Riddell> Kamion: the package with section non-free/doc got rejected
[05:57] <Riddell> malex: what's the failure?
[05:57] <Riddell> malex: there's currently some md5sum issue with the archive
[05:57] <malex> Riddell: E: Invalid Release file, no entry for main/binary-386/Packages
[05:58] <malex> Riddell: I run it as debootstrap --arch 386 hoary /chroot/hoary/ http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
[05:58] <malex> Riddell: There is a /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/hoary script...
[05:59] <mdke> mako, around?
[06:00] <Riddell> malex: --arch i386 
[06:00] <Riddell> add an "i"
[06:00] <jbailey> mdz: I'd like to yes - that way we have consistancy of HW detection everywhere.  I'm just reading over some new udev/hotplug stuff that md poked at me.
[06:01] <malex> Riddell: you are right. Thank you.
[06:04] <malex> Is there a /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/breezy script somewhere?
[06:05] <malex> Or should I stick to warty/hoary for upstream package building?
[06:06] <Riddell> malex: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
[06:06] <Riddell> malex: you need the package from breezy, grab my recompile there
[06:07] <Kamion> Riddell: I think you need to get it synced from Debian first
[06:08] <malex> Riddell: Debian is 0.3.1.4 and your build is 0.2.45.
[06:08] <Riddell> Kamion: bah, we're too impatient for that :)
[06:08] <Kamion> Riddell: (AFAIK we handle components a bit differently for syncs from Debian and for packages introduced directly to Ubuntu)
[06:09] <malex> Riddell: Can I just grab the breezy script from your debootstrap package or are there more changes?
[06:09] <malex> I am creating all chroots on a sid system.
[06:09] <malex> hoary chrooted fine
[06:10] <Kamion> malex: you can't just use the breezy script without new debootstrap as well
[06:10] <Kamion> it relies on new features in core debootstrap
[06:10] <Kamion>  scribus-template (1.2.1-1ubuntu1) breezy; urgency=low
[06:10] <Kamion>  .
[06:10] <Kamion>    * Ubuntu build
[06:10] <malex> Kamion: I have the debian debootstrap from sid 0.3.1.4
[06:10] <Kamion> Riddell: what does that mean? it doesn't say anything about what's changed
[06:10] <Kamion> malex: should be OK, then
[06:10] <malex> Kamion: 1.2.1 is the old one.
[06:11] <malex> Kamion: Riddell has just gotten the 1.2.2.1 built
[06:11] <Kamion> malex: I'm inquiring about Riddell's changelog entry, which is uninformative.
[06:12] <Kamion> if it's just a merge, then one should use the -v option to dpkg-buildpackage / debuild in order to include older changelog entries so that readers of the -changes lists can tell what's going on
[06:13] <Riddell> malex: grab latest debootstrap and recompile http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/admin/debootstrap
[06:14] <malex> Riddell: I just copied the breezy scripts from your 0.2.45 package and the current debian bootstrap is getting breezy seemingly fine so far.
[06:14] <Kamion> dexconf: error: cannot generate configuration file;
[06:14] <Kamion> xserver-xorg/config/inputdevice/keyboard/layout not set.  Aborting.
[06:14] <Riddell> Kamion: there's no changes, I havn't heard of the -v option
[06:14] <mdz> jbailey: if we're going to do that for breezy, now would be the time
[06:14] <Kamion> daniels: ^-- on fresh install
[06:14] <Kamion> Riddell: what was the upload for then?
[06:14] <malex> Should I set up a warty chroot and build packages for warty for my upstream repositories or forget warty and only do hoary/breezy?
[06:16] <Riddell> Kamion: hmm, I didn't realise it was already in breezy
[06:16] <Riddell> checked scribus and scribus-doc but must have missed checking that one
[06:17] <infinity> Riddell : But if there were no source level changes, why upload with an *ubuntu1 version, rather than request a sync?
[06:17] <Riddell> infinity: because there are changes in the other two scribus packages, I was just incompetant with that one
[06:18] <Kamion> Riddell: even if it weren't already in breezy, the correct way to get a package into the distribution that's already in another distribution is to request a sync
[06:18] <Kamion> that way we don't carry the no-op changelog diff
[06:20] <Riddell> Kamion: no-op changelog diff?
[06:21] <infinity> Riddell : MOM will now be picking up that package for merges, because of the *ubuntu* version number, and will be patching the tiny changelog diff in (and automatic syncs will stop)
[06:21] <Kamion> right, what infinity said
[06:21] <infinity> Riddell : Of course, all of this is easily fixed by requesting a manual sync the next time Debian revs their version.
[06:21] <infinity> Riddell : You just have to remember to do so. :)
[06:22] <Riddell> infinity: ok, who's the person to request that from?
[06:22] <Kamion> elmo
[06:22] <Kamion> as with all sync
[06:22] <Kamion> s
[06:23] <Riddell> right
[06:23] <Kamion> daniels: (that kills the install)
[06:24] <Riddell> infinity: do you know why kexi is dep-wait on libmysqlclient-dev when it has a dependency on libmysqlclient12-dev?
[06:27] <infinity> Riddell : I suppose it's been like that for ages.  Ancient bug I fixed in the auto-dep-waiter.  Lemme clear it.
[06:27] <infinity> (Or is this a recent upload?)
[06:27] <infinity> If so, then it's a new and fun bug.
[06:27] <Riddell> infinity: no it's been there for a good while
[06:29] <infinity> Riddell : Kay, should be happy now.  Unless it's not for other reasons.
[06:29] <Riddell> infinity: I don't need to upload do I?  just wait for it to build?
[06:32] <mdz> Kamion: did you promote docbook2x?
[06:33] <infinity> Riddell : Just wait, yes.
[06:33] <Kamion> mdz: yes
[06:33] <Kamion> 10:17 < seb128> Kamion, mdz: can one of you promote docbook2x (approved by pitti for gnome-doc-utils) and libexchange-storage1.2-dev (lib for evolution-exchange moved) to main the corresponding ftbfses?
[06:33] <Riddell> infinity: cool, thanks
[06:34] <mdz> Kamion: I've rearranged https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue to help keep track of that processing; remember to update it when you promote things
[06:37] <infinity> Riddell : I stand corrected, an upload will be required.  Missing build-dep.
[06:37] <infinity> Riddell :
[06:37] <infinity> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[06:37] <infinity> make[5] : *** [libkexidbparser.la]  Error 1
[06:37] <infinity> Erm.
[06:37] <infinity> Stupid BitchX.
[06:38] <infinity>  /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXi
[06:38] <infinity> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[06:38] <infinity> make[5] : *** [libkexidbparser.la]  Error 1
[06:38] <infinity> Better.
[06:38] <Riddell> infinity: ah well that wasn't a required build-dep when I uploaded before :)
[06:38] <infinity> Picky, picky.
[06:39] <Riddell> I presume there's no way to find out a list of packages that need the xi-dev build-dep added?
[06:41] <infinity> grep the build logs for -lXi, or we fire up the auto rebuilding mojo.
[06:41] <Kamion> mdz: ok
[06:41] <infinity> (The lattor of which I assume I'll be turning on shortly after upstream freeze, as things settle)
[06:41] <infinity> s/lattor/latter/
[06:43] <infinity> I'm betting a fair number of packages have become FTBFS since the X modualrisation began, so the rebuild tests will be somewhat critical this time around.
[06:43] <xTina> Is there a configuration file for apt-ftparchive available anywhere that will simply recreate all Contents, Packages and Release files on a Ubuntu mirror?
[06:44] <mdz> xTina: I don't know of one, but it stands to reason that one might
[06:44] <mdz> the one used for the master archive has a bunch of other stuff in it that I expect you wouldn't want
[06:45] <mdz> I wrote a small script which would regenerate Packages and Release files, for use with CD customization
[06:48] <xTina> mdz: It probably doesn't deal with different architectures being available, does it?
[06:53] <mdz> xTina: no, since I created it for CDS
[06:54] <mdz> CDs
[06:57] <xTina> I can't figure out what to do in order to put only arch packages in the ...-arch/Packages files. If I use the samples that are floating around the net for modifying CDs I have all architectures in my index files. The only thing I found was the Architectures option which didn't change anything.
[06:59] <mdz> xTina: you need to give it separate file lists
[07:03] <siretart> hi
[07:04] <jordi> mdz: what happened to you? Suddenly... you appear so... unreal!
[07:04] <siretart> how should I understand Kamions mail concerning the release update? when will autosyncing for packages in universe/multiverse from debian stop? tomorrow or on 21 July?
[07:05] <siretart> hi mark!
[07:05] <sabdfl> hey guys
[07:05] <mdz> jordi: are you looking at me?  I thought you went home! ;-)
[07:05] <jordi> *g*
[07:10] <ogra> hey jordi 
[07:10] <ogra> hi sabdfl 
[07:10] <jordi> hi ogra!
[07:11] <eruin> anyone in here know of any reported bugs ala "gnome only starts on second try" ?
[07:12] <eruin> and, is bugzilla or malone preferred for reporting?
[07:12] <ogra> eruin, bugzilla for main bugs, malone for universe
[07:13] <eruin> ah, silly me
[07:13] <eruin> ;)
[07:14] <mdz> eruin: I've seen some of that sort of behaviour
[07:14] <eruin> yeah, this is on current breezy, and I'm not sure how to debug it properly
[07:15] <eruin> the session just doesn't load, although after a gdm restart I can login fine though I get an error about gnomepanel already running
[07:15] <eruin> that was a bad sentence, I know :P
[07:16] <sabdfl> hey ogra
[07:16] <eruin> ohwell, I'll be back when I've got something usable to report
[07:19] <{SebPayne}> chrisstiturm: are you around?
[07:21] <{SebPayne}> chrissturm told me that i had to make a new link after upgrading Xorg on breezy
[07:21] <{SebPayne}> any idea what the link for /usr/bin/X11/X should be?
[07:37] <jordi> mdz: have you got patches for apt 0.6 to mark a few strings for translation?
[07:47] <xTina> mdz: How would I get those file lists?
[07:47] <mdz> xTina: find
[07:47] <mdz> jordi: no, I don't think so.  are there strings which should be marked but are not?
[07:48] <xTina> mdz: find in 'pool' according to the architecture of the .debs?
[07:48] <jordi> I just found one in apt-get.cc
[07:49] <jordi>       c2out << _("Authentication warning overridden.\n");
[07:49] <jordi> mdz: line 691
[07:49] <jordi> and I'd swear I have another one
[07:49] <jordi> let me look
[07:49] <mdz> jordi: that string looks like it is marked for translation :-P
[07:50] <jordi> mdz: I did :)
[07:55] <{SebPayne}> does anyone any idea when the next X version is coming?
[07:55] <Kamion> siretart: autosyncing stops tomorrow/Friday/thereabouts; the 21st July deadline is for merges of uploads to Debian that happened up to tomorrow
[07:55] <jordi> mdz: see it?
[07:56] <mdz> jordi: see what?
[07:56] <mxpxpod> jbailey: when you get back, let me know
[07:56] <Kamion> elmo: speaking of, ready to stop syncing end of tomorrow?
[07:57] <mdz> Kamion: yeah, we talked about it a short time ago
[07:58] <siretart> Kamion: oh, I see. then my questions I posted to the mailing lists still stand
[07:59] <jordi> mdz: the string that isn't marked for translation
[08:00] <jordi> What I pasted included my modification, the current package has no markers
[08:00] <mdz> jordi: I saw the string you pasted
[08:00] <mdz> I didn't look in the source for more
[08:05] <malex> Is "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hoary main restricted universe" the main ubuntu archive? 
[08:05] <Kamion> malex: yes, depending on what you mean by "main"
[08:06] <malex> Kamion: master archive?
[08:06] <jordi> mdz: gpgv.cc: "The following signatures couldn't be verified..." untranslated.
[08:07] <malex> Kamion: I am looking for the main archive or a fast mirror for hoary and breezy packages for my pbuilder chroots.
[08:07] <mdz> jordi: a patch would be great
[08:07] <Kamion> malex: yes, that's the primary mirror
[08:07] <mdz> or a baz branch if there are a lot
[08:07] <jordi> i feared. I will send one :)
[08:08] <Kamion> malex: (the master archive is not accessible to the world, only to a few internal mirrors)
[08:08] <Kamion> malex: we recommend you use $COUNTRY_CODE.archive.ubuntu.com, so if you're in France you'd use fr.archive.ubuntu.com, for instance
[08:08] <malex> Kamion: "primary mirror" is just what I was looking for.
[08:08] <malex> Kamion: I'm in the us, so us.archive.ubuntu.com for me...
[08:08] <Kamion> malex: some of those country mirrors are actually just aliases for archive.ubuntu.com, but may not always be so
[08:09] <Kamion> I think us.archive.ubuntu.com currently == archive.ubuntu.com, but that's a temporary situation
[08:09] <malex> Kamion: I will use us.archive... to be on the safe side.
[08:10] <Kamion> yep, that would be sensible
[08:10] <Kamion> I think most of the country mirrors pull every six hours or so
[08:15] <jordi> mdz: when you do returns and have something to mark for translation, is that when you use string()?
[08:15] <jordi> ie, here?
[08:15] <jordi>       return "At least one invalid signature was encountered.";
[08:17] <mdz> jordi: _() should be fine there; it returns a const char*, right?
[08:18] <malex> So, breezy doesn't have an en_US.ISO-8859-15 locale at all?
[08:20] <jordi> mdz: yes
[08:20] <Kamion> malex: no, ISO-8859-15 doesn't make much sense for the US
[08:20] <Kamion> hm, actually, I tell a lie
[08:20] <Kamion> malex: yes, it's there, you have to enable it with 'dpkg-reconfigure locales'
[08:21] <jordi> Kamion: what about poor americans wanting to express Euro? :)
[08:21] <malex> Kamion: no, it's not in the list.
[08:21] <Kamion> I suppose it was added for financial interoperability or something
[08:21] <Kamion> huh, you're right, I was looking in sid
[08:21] <Kamion> jordi: they can use UTF-8
[08:21] <Kamion> strange that it was removed, perhaps it was a Debian patch or something - upstream don't normally remove locales
[08:23] <malex> Kamion: Debian still has it
[08:24] <malex> Kamion: So, it was a Ubuntu breezy patch, most likely, as hoary still has it.
[08:26] <Kamion> malex: breezy's glibc is based off Debian experimental
[08:26] <Kamion> malex: if you're not looking at the latter, you aren't getting an accurate picture
[08:26] <malex> Kamion: So, what is the proper procedure of building a Ubuntu package from a debian package? I have a hoary/breezy chroot installed, got the build-deps for my package, got my source package. What should I do with the changelog/version?
[08:27] <Kamion> nothing, unless you need to change the source package for some other reason
[08:27] <Kamion> debuild -b
[08:27] <Kamion> hmm, so there is a locales-supported.dpatch in the glibc source package which adds en_US.ISO-8859-15; upstream does not have it
[08:27] <Kamion> however, that patch is disabled
[08:28] <Kamion> jbailey: ?
[08:28] <malex> Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/devscripts/devscripts_2.8.6_i386.deb  MD5Sum mismatch
[08:28] <jbailey> -15 is latin 1 with a euro sign isn't it?
[08:28] <jbailey> mxpxpod: I'm back. =)
[08:28] <Kamion> jbailey: yes
[08:28] <mxpxpod> jbailey: I figured it out
[08:28] <Kamion> +#locales-supported     # g: untilsarge
[08:28] <mxpxpod> I reinstalled libxext6 and libxext-dev and now all is fine
[08:28] <mxpxpod> seb128: you know that gconf error I was getting the other day?
[08:29] <Kamion> same comment in Debian experimental
[08:29] <Kamion> jbailey: I'd venture to suggest that sarge has happened ;-)
[08:29] <jordi> mdz:          return (string("Internal error: Good signature, but could not determine key fingerprint?!"));
[08:29] <jbailey> Kamion: Right, I think that's why it's commented out now.
[08:29] <jordi> mdz: I assume this also needs marking, right?
[08:29] <jordi> jbailey!
[08:30] <jbailey> Heya Jordi!
[08:30] <jordi> jbailey: I updated your blog url for planet
[08:30] <malex> What's up with the md5sums for hoary?
[08:30] <jbailey> jordi: Eh?
[08:30] <Kamion> jbailey: it seems a slightly strange decision to have added that locale, but now that it was added I don't think it should have been removed ...
[08:31] <mxpxpod> jbailey: pretty strange, eh?
[08:31] <Kamion> hm, us.archive.ubuntu.com != archive.ubuntu.com at the moment
[08:31] <jordi> jbailey: when you switched to phpblosxom, your rss url changed and it broke your planet subscription
[08:31] <Kamion> so perhaps it synced badly
[08:31] <jbailey> Kamion: I'd have to look at that locale specifically, but I suspect that we decided that once Sarge released that we would drop all of the locales that upstream had refused to give everyone (.. What's the formula?  each release cycle doubles in length?) N time to adjust.
[08:32] <malex> Kamion: probably a bad sync, as breezy packages are fine, only hoary has the md5 problem.
[08:32] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Whacked.  Ah well, I'm glad it's working.
[08:32] <mxpxpod> jbailey: me too :)
[08:32] <jbailey> mxpxpod: Did you just reinstall each piece one by one?
[08:32] <Kamion> jbailey: hm. removing en_GB.ISO-8859-15 was a bit fucked, though
[08:32] <mxpxpod> jbailey: no, I did the ldd thing and then figured out where the Xext* symbols would be and reinstalled that package
[08:32] <jbailey> Isn't that an upstream locale?  I would've thought it was...
[08:33] <Kamion> nope
[08:33] <jbailey> Harumph.
[08:33] <Kamion> looks like upstream have an overly legalistic viewpoint
[08:33] <jbailey> Kamion: that's a polite way of talking about needing a boot to the head, but ah well.
[08:33] <Kamion> true, the UK is not one of the Euro countries (bah), but that doesn't mean UK people don't have to deal in Euros an awful lot
[08:33] <Kamion> at least businesses
[08:33] <Kamion> but I suspect Ulrich would say "just use UTF-8"
[08:34] <jbailey> Mhm
[08:34] <jbailey> I wish that character set could be more trivially separated from everything else.
[08:34] <Kamion> $ bzcat Packages.bz2 | grep-dctrl -P devscripts -nsMD5sum
[08:34] <Kamion> 1d3b5e583cdacf3dd2c2f752b710c8bf
[08:34] <Kamion> $ md5sum devscripts_2.8.6_i386.deb
[08:34] <Kamion> 2b21c93ea612f3f29d10318ce42111d7  devscripts_2.8.6_i386.deb
[08:34] <Kamion> hmm
[08:35] <Kamion> the Packages file is right; that file is corrupt on the mirror
[08:36] <Kamion> the master is fine
[08:38] <malex> Kamion: just as you suggested
[08:41] <tvo> does breezy come with an inotify-enabled/patched kernel?
[08:41] <chrissturm> anyone aware of a flash plugin that works with the gcc4 compiled firefox?
[08:44] <ogra> Kamion, UVF for universe ??
[08:44] <ogra> we didnt do that for hoary
[08:44] <Kamion> ogra: MOTU was only just getting started for hoary, and hadn't had time
[08:45] <Kamion> for breezy, there has been plenty of time to get things into shape
[08:45] <ogra> Kamion, but it worked quite well..
[08:45] <Kamion> not really, there was a huge panic at hoary release and various people wanted to update hoary after release because you hadn't had time to stabilise it beforehand
[08:45] <Kamion> anyway, I have to go out now, sorry
[08:45] <ogra> Kamion, not really, Cxx transition is still ongoing and missing ~500 packages
[08:45] <Kamion> ogra: that's not affected by UVF
[08:46] <ogra> Kamion, but it postpones other things
[08:46] <Kamion> and this is not a hard freeze, it just means you have to get approval
[08:46] <Kamion> which is not intended to get in your way, it's an extra review step, as I said
[08:46] <ogra> Kamion, but might steal your time
[08:46] <Kamion> right, I really have to run, Kirsten is waiting
[08:46] <Kamion> ogra: talk to mdz
[08:47] <ogra> oki, have fun :=
[08:47] <ogra> :)
[08:55] <Seveas> jdub, around..?
[08:56] <seb128> ogra: I'm going to package gnome-screensaver if you don't work on that
[08:56] <mxpxpod> seb128: ok, so I fixed that gconf issue I was having
[08:56] <seb128> mxpxpod: cool, how?
[08:56] <mxpxpod> seb128: I had a ~/.gconf/schemas/apps/workspace_switcher_applet for some reason
[08:56] <ogra> seb128, jdub already asked me to do it, but go ahead if you want to grab it
[08:56] <mxpxpod> so I removed it, shut down gconf, and it worked
[08:57] <seb128> ogra: as you want, I have planned to give a shot of the packaging now but if you want to work on it no problem
[08:58] <seb128> mxpxpod: ~/.gconf/schemas/apps/workspace_switcher_applet is an user setting ... what's wrong with it?
[08:58] <ogra> seb128, then we'd have to wait until edubuntu leaves me some free time again... so go ahead :) i want to see it :)
[08:58] <mxpxpod> seb128: I think the values in there on my system were messed up
[08:59] <seb128> k
[08:59] <seb128> mxpxpod: and that makes this symbol errors??
[08:59] <mxpxpod> seb128: oh, no... that was something with libxext-6
[08:59] <ogra> i have to package some real crack here before i can move on to something more funny...
[08:59] <mxpxpod> seb128: when I reinstalled libxext6 and libxext-dev, it fixed the problem
[08:59] <seb128> mxpxpod: k, cool
[09:00] <mxpxpod> I'll go close the bug
[09:02] <mxpxpod> seb128: bug closed
[09:03] <seb128> thanks
[09:03] <mxpxpod> thanks for all the help
[09:03] <seb128> np
[09:06] <jammcq_office> hey guys, we'll be showing Ubuntu at our LTSP.org booth at LinuxWorld in SanFran again this year, who should I talk to about getting a box of cds to hand out?
[09:07] <elmo> jammcq_office: mako
[09:07] <jammcq_office> k, thanks, sorry for the interruption
[09:09] <mgalvin> elmo, ping
[09:21] <Keybuk> meh
[09:21] <Keybuk> openwrt doesn't have "watch" on it
[09:30] <elmo> quick, someone give me a small package that has a newer version in breezy
[09:30] <elmo> heh, I know, let's test backports with... DPKG!
[09:30] <ogra> haha
[09:30] <wasabi_> "eclipse"
[09:52] <jbailey> ajmitch: awake yet? =)
[10:05] <elmo> dpkg_1.13.10~hoary1_source.changes
[10:05] <elmo> ACCEPT
[10:05] <elmo> lalalalalalalalala
[10:05] <wasabi_> haha
[10:07] <mgalvin> elmo, i know ur busy, svn account? would you possibly have some time to set it up soon?
[10:09] <elmo> mgalvin: yeah, in a sec
[10:09] <mgalvin> elmo, ok thanks
[10:24] <siretart> mgalvin: I just rechecked your update to cegui
[10:25] <siretart> mgalvin: currently 17 packages (mostly xfce) is build depending on cegui
[10:26] <siretart> mgalvin: did you check that all packages still build with that new version? why do you think that update is necessary?
[10:27] <ajmitch> jbailey: of course I was ;)
[10:32] <mgalvin> siretart, cegui has nothing to do with xfce (i don't think), this is ceguimk2 (libcegui-mk2-0, libcegui-mk2-dev, -doc, -dbg), NOT libxfcegui
[10:32] <mgalvin> siretart, its a lib for game ui's
[10:32] <mgalvin> ogre uses it
[10:34] <siretart> mgalvin: oh, you're perfectly right..
[10:34] <mgalvin> siretart, the update is necessary to get the new (working) version of ogre3d which many games use
[10:34] <siretart> mgalvin: ic. what about ogre? does ogre still build with the new version?
[10:36] <mgalvin> long story short, ogre3d from cvs builds with this new version of cegui-mk2-0.3.0
[10:37] <mgalvin> the latest ogre release is broken, so it has to be the cvs version
[10:37] <mgalvin> but they work together
[10:38] <mgalvin> plus iirc the version of ogre in debian FTBFS on breezy (and hoary for that matter)
[10:39] <siretart> mgalvin: ok, so you checked that there are no visible regression. ok, then I don't have further objections :)
[10:39] <mgalvin> siretart, correct. great :)
[10:41] <mgalvin> siretart, before you advocate it...
[10:42] <mgalvin> i did notice that the build deps in breezy changed, i would like to verify those deps before you approve it. I will check this an upload a new version when i get home
[10:42] <siretart> mgalvin: I just checked, it FTBFS because of some libdevil-dev
[10:42] <mgalvin> right, thats the one
[10:43] <mgalvin> there are some glut deps that seem to have changed that i need to fix
[10:44] <siretart> all right. I added a comment about this in revu. just upload a new version when it's ready
[10:44] <mgalvin> ok, i will do
[10:44] <siretart> mgalvin: what about libcwd? is this case solved?
[10:45] <mgalvin> sync it from debian, its already there
[10:45] <siretart> so I may nuke it from revu, ok?
[10:45] <mgalvin> siretart, its been there for weeks
[10:46] <mgalvin> yup
[10:46] <mgalvin> boom
[10:46] <siretart> :)
[10:50] <Mez> hey seth
[10:54] <seth_k> hi mez
[11:00] <mgalvin> gotta run, l8r all
[11:05] <elmo> lamont/infinity: it's entirely possible I'm about to break your buildds or already have done
[11:05] <elmo> if either of you are around that'd rock ;-)(
[11:44] <seb128> pitti: around?
[11:45] <pitti> seb128: yep
[11:47] <seb128> pitti: do you know who has sudo rights nowadays on a default installation? An user or the admin group?
[11:47] <pitti> seb128: the admin group
[11:47] <seb128> k
[11:47] <pitti> %admin	ALL=(ALL) ALL
[11:47] <seb128> pitti: and is there any way for an user process to know if the user has sudo rights?
[11:47] <pitti> seb128: none that I know of, apart from just trying
[11:48] <seb128> pitti: lllmanulll is working on the GnomePanel spec, we want to hide menu entries which require sudo for non-sudo users
[11:48] <pitti> seb128: ah, that would be indeed nice
[11:48] <pitti> seb128: if you just check for admin membership you will miss upgraders from warty
[11:49] <seb128> we can't ask to an user to enter his password on startup to know if he has sudo rights :p
[11:49] <pitti> no, right
[11:49] <siretart> how about doing an $(groups $(user) ) and grepping for 'admin'?
[11:49] <pitti> see above
[11:49] <seb128> for the reason pitti just said
[11:49] <seb128> in fact I ask because my install has 
[11:49] <pitti> would certainly work for the majority of users
[11:49] <seb128> user ALL=(ALL) ALL
[11:49] <pitti> but unrealiable
[11:49] <seb128> and an admin can change whatever he wants
[11:49] <pitti> right, even partial rights
[11:50] <siretart> right.. hm
[11:50] <pitti> seb128: I guess we need a small setuid wrapper for that
[11:50] <seb128> pitti: any opinion on what would be a good approch for this?
[11:50] <seb128> hum, maybe
[11:51] <pitti> seb128: a reasonably good heuristics for Ubuntu would be ingroup(admin) || uid == 1000
[11:51] <pitti> seb128: but that's neither suitable for upstream nor a really good solution
[11:51] <pitti> but the only one that doesn't need root rights
[11:52] <seb128> lllmanulll: do a function with that to start maybe, we can still figure and another way later
[11:52] <lllmanulll> ALl right
[11:52] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[11:52] <pitti> seb128: a setuid wrapper could check /etc/sudoers and return the result in its exit code
[11:53] <pitti> seb128: we should use sudo's existing parser for that, of course
[11:53] <seb128> pitti: that would be a better option probably
[11:53] <pitti> seb128: it would work reliably and it is cleaner, but requires setuid root, so it should be very small and auditible
[11:54] <seb128> right
[11:54] <seb128> thanks
[11:55] <pitti> geez, why must unix mail servers be so complicated...
[11:59] <ivoks> ?
[11:59] <ivoks> they are pice of cake :)
[11:59] <ivoks> specialy postfix :)
[11:59] <pitti> ivoks: I try to setup SSMTP+SSL authentication in exim4
[12:00] <ivoks> i have that in postfix :(
[12:00] <pitti> ivoks: this has worked once, but now I just get a "connection refused" for all but localhost connections
[12:00] <ernstp>  found a bug on the colony 2 install cd, and a daily installer two days later
[12:00] <ernstp> both cd's checked out ok on integrity test
[12:00] <ernstp> they both hard lock right after the "Would you like to download additional language support"
[12:00] <pitti> ivoks: I didn't find any good docs for postfix either, so I just kept the exim4 install
[12:01] <ivoks> pitti: if you want, i could tutor you... you need 5 minutes :)
[12:01] <pitti> ivoks: this is my production system...
[12:01] <pitti> primary mail hub for five persons...
[12:01] <ivoks> :)
[12:01] <ivoks> ok