=== robitaille [~daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:17] hey robitaille [01:18] hi mdke. Totally forgot about the CC meeting. I should check my own calendar a bit more often :) [01:18] haha === robitaille is tired after 2 full days of first-aid training... [01:19] i bet [01:19] i was thinking today we should get cracking on the wiki icons [01:19] to start with it is me and you i think, maybe more people will join [01:19] "cracking on wiki icons" as in repairing wiki pages with icons that don't currently work? [01:20] yes [01:20] we could use a table to record which icons have been fixed, like last time [01:22] I'll have some time later tonight (i.e in 4-5 hours) to work on that. I still think we are not talking about so many pages here :) [01:23] robitaille, we'll see. So do you agree on the use of a table? [01:23] so that we can see who has done what already? [01:24] yes. I guess similar to the "wikigardening" page (or whatever is is called) [01:24] ok i will amend that page === FLeiXiuS [~fleixius@pcp0010487351pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:31] robitaille, did you move just the icons to IconsPage or also the screenshots? [01:33] just the icons. Which screenshots? [01:35] hang on a tic [01:39] ok [01:39] robitaille, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiGardeningIcons?action=show , some of the things towards the bottom are screenshots [01:44] i gtg to bed now, but leave some for me tomorrow! :) [01:44] robitaille ^^ [01:45] I have to go soon...not sure I still understand the difference between screenshot and icons. [01:46] robitaille, a screenshot is a capture for the sake of one document. an icon is a small file. Basically the question is, did you upload them all as attachments to IconsPage, or just the ones described in IconsPage? [01:47] I simply uploaded as attachment to IconPages all the icons that were refered to in IconsPage. [01:47] robitaille, ok that's what I thought. My view would be to let the other things (screenshots etc) take care of themselves, we can't track them all down one by one [01:48] Ah, now I get it. Personally I think screenshots should be attchement to the page there are used in; except maybe for the ones that are reused many times. [01:48] exactly [01:49] that was the idea [01:49] I have to go; kids are screaming for food for dinner. I'll be back in a couple of hours [01:49] robitaille, ok cool, i'll see ya tomorrow [01:49] leave me some icons... === judax [~judax@ppp-69-148-18-161.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:37] ouch i missed the CC meeting === mgalvin [~mgalvin@cpe-69-205-46-35.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:44] hi all === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === FLeiXiuS [~fleixius@pcp0010487351pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [~rob@rob-ubuntu.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-doc === FLeiXiuS [~fleixius@pcp0010487351pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === FLeiXiuS [~fleixius@pcp0010487351pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud [~sean@ndn-165-142-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:27] African Greetings [07:28] salut [07:35] salut [07:35] im looking at this [07:35] http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ [07:36] im trying to get ideas for the team [07:37] yes they have nice methods [07:37] the core of the team is an employed group [07:37] but they have a good contributor team [07:37] yeah i noticed that [07:38] there's so much pride in their work i notice [07:38] that's nice [07:38] yes [07:39] Custom scripts to generate PDF and HTML output [07:39] Custom XSLT stylesheets for both print and HTML versions [07:39] Emacs with PSGML mode (optional, but recommended) [07:40] The Documentation Project is not interested in unmaintained documentation. If you have a document to submit, either you or someone else will need to continue maintenance of the document. Documentation should be focused on software found in Fedora Core or Extras. If you have an idea outside of that scope, please bring it to the mailing list for discussion. [07:41] jsgotangco: what are you suggesting? [07:43] we have custom stylesheets [07:43] but we dont support PDF [07:43] yes i know that, i'm just dumping [07:44] something is missing here [07:44] mainly because it requires install of java [07:44] however, in kde Makefile I do make install guide as a pdf [07:44] the xsl cust layer for PDF is there [07:44] but we dont really use it [07:45] someting missing at ubuntu? [07:45] yes, but people don't seem to like formal approaches [07:45] perhaps that is the problem? === ealden [~ealden@219.90.91.2] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:46] it is, but it is hard to make people work in a way they dont want to [07:46] so we kind of go by the seat of our pants [07:47] but all that is not the core problem IMHO [07:47] there's really no need to formalize so sudden, it should be a natural progression for that as the project matures [07:47] jsgotangco: the real problem is that we do not have enough people actually writing [07:48] and because there is no formality, everything is a team decision [07:48] this takes too much time [07:48] and people get defocused off the writing [07:49] 90% of our meetings are about technical issues and semantics [07:49] instead of progress on the documents [07:49] right people notice that already [07:49] i actually receive emails with their concerns on our technical talk [07:49] this is why I am trying to focus on the docs [07:50] but I must also do some infrustructure stuff [07:51] thankfully, jeffsch and mgalvin have also started with helping on that front [07:52] I think people need to stake parts of the docs and commit to writing them [07:52] a page a day approach [07:53] if ppl do a page a day, then it very quickly mounts up to a book === jsgotangco remembers kquickguide [07:53] yes like you did on that book [07:53] classic example [07:54] yeah it flew off on its own after having a structure [07:54] personally I find that at the moment I get side tracked into other things [07:54] it's not good [07:55] so I am now in kquickguide adding kde-system settings [07:55] but I have a section in kuserguide that I must get back to [07:55] i guess i hvae to revisit that book again since the two other people who were involved are quiet lately [07:56] but inbetween doing this I have prepared the deb packaging [07:56] I am focusing on kde stuff, mainly because it needs it and to get structures out of the way [07:57] dam it takes a while for emails to make it to the list [07:58] rob^: sometimes it does. I am in africa so it takes it even longer to reach me :-) [07:59] heh yeah [07:59] i see th epatches will apply them now [07:59] im going to look into svn again later and probably upgrade [08:01] the edubuntu stuff won't be around till next month i guess so i'll go back into kde === rob^ [~rob@rob-ubuntu.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:03] although i was thinking of starting the admin guide right now even if its not going to be shipped, but a good head start for the next release after breezy [08:04] when is the faq guide going to be shipped? [08:07] rob^: it is not planned for breezy. however, if it is ready we can ship it [08:07] I don't think people will mind shipping it [08:08] a lot of people I know find the unofficial one helpful [08:08] I think we should, if it is good and does not give problems like ubuntuguide.org [08:08] if we could ship an official one it would be good [08:08] rob^: yes it is helpful [08:08] that is why we took it into svn [08:08] but ppl had issues with it [08:08] yes, a good idea I agree [08:09] at least now you can edit and go to town on it [08:09] what parts, exactly, did they have issues with? [08:09] mostly backports I thinkn [08:09] ah [08:09] what if we remove those sections until they were ready? [08:09] where possible try not to use them [08:10] dont delete it just sgml comment [08:10] yeah, thats what I was thinking [08:10] but you are more than welcome to do what you think on them [08:10] mgalvin is also working on them [08:10] he wrote the ppc version [08:11] I might have a look [08:11] it would be nice if all the authors who wrote derivatives of ubuntuguide would join us like he has [08:11] yeah well chua isnt coming here lately [08:12] I wish Chen Wen Kiat would do that [08:12] he does stop by from time to time [08:12] one of the problems autors had with the ubuntuguide.org is that it was not trully free [08:12] I pretty much have been working exclusively on the faq [08:12] that was solved when it came to svn [08:13] I noticed [08:13] thanks very much [08:13] np [08:13] and keep the coffee in the cup [08:13] ah yes [08:13] you and mgalvin are doing a sterling job [08:13] I now have a nice wireless keyboard [08:13] I am very happy to see that the week it took me to port it was not wasted [08:14] :) [08:15] I'm still learning docbook, but my past php/html experience comes in handy [08:16] time to go get something out of the freezer for dinner.. [08:16] ah yes wireless keyboards are brilliant [08:16] rob^: did you see that mgalvin has profiled it for ppc, i386 and amd64 [08:16] this is good because it stops the fragmentation and reduces the fragmentation that was taking place with the other versions [08:16] reduces the ovehead [08:16] I hope we can ship faqguide, but I think it will also go on help.ubuntu.com if we every get that working [08:16] yeah [08:17] dinner, breakfast here [08:17] jsgotangco: yeah what? [08:17] yes [08:17] dinner time for you to [08:17] yeah on all points regarding fragmentation [08:18] rob^: I can always output and upload the kde version to http://lnix.net/~froud [08:18] froud, I'm a ubuntu user, so I tend to stay away from explaining kde things [08:18] OK [08:18] :-) [08:19] I use xmlto to check my work, doesn't work in yelp [08:19] no yelp cant do profiles [08:19] to validate you can use xmllint [08:20] nither can xmlto (it looks a little funny) [08:20] and to view you can use the make targets [08:20] its better to use the gome/Makefile [08:20] that will output html to build/gnome/faqguidei386 [08:20] whats the makefile target for the faq guide? === rob^ looks [08:21] there are three [08:21] and one dummie that calls the three [08:21] kfaq builds all [08:21] status: not working? [08:21] :q [08:21] do you have the toolchain setup [08:21] doh, dam vim [08:21] sudo apt-get install xsltproc [08:22] sudo apt-get install docbook [08:22] sudo apt-get install docbook-xsl [08:22] that should do it [08:22] then Make kfaq [08:22] yes [08:22] opps whatever the gnome target is [08:23] rob@rob:~/Documents/ubuntu-doc$ make faq-gnome [08:23] Makefile:150: *** missing separator. Stop. [08:23] make faq [08:23] same result [08:24] works here [08:24] did you svn up since last night [08:24] yes [08:24] about 2 minutes ago [08:25] Hmm missing seperator? [08:26] a svn status brings up several files with a ? [08:26] one of the the Makefile [08:26] svn up [08:26] you need svn up [08:26] not svn status [08:27] svn status shows you what is the change in your wc [08:27] nope the make target is good (thanks mgalvin) [08:28] in the root of your trunk do svn up [08:28] yeah, I know to use up [08:28] Ok then someting is wrong on your system [08:28] I'll recheckout the repository [08:28] no [08:28] can you do svn revert on the gnome makefile [08:28] cd gnome [08:29] svn revert Makefile [08:29] make faq === ealden [~ealden@219.90.91.2] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] [08:31] that seems to be working [08:31] probably a G on the Makefile [08:32] faq: faqi386 faqamd64 faqppc [08:32] calls three targets [08:32] so you can also do make faqi386 [08:32] to just build the i386 version [08:33] or shall we say gnome i386 version [08:33] :-) [08:33] we have six books in one file there [08:34] and kfaq make the kde one? [08:34] same thing [08:34] cd ../kde [08:34] oh [08:34] right [08:34] make kfaq === rob^ gets it now [08:35] to make all the files do make kall [08:35] that is will build what we planned to ship [08:36] if the kde faqguide is ready I will add it to the build for deb [08:37] thats much better, I was using xmlto which just chucks in all the profiles (quite ugly) [08:37] :-) yes [08:37] glad you know how to do it now [08:37] thanks [08:38] froud, we should make a schedule [08:38] so remember when working you can use the arch and the os attributes on nodes [08:38] jsgotangco: schedule I thought breezy release schedule was that :-) [08:38] yeah breezy sched is general though [08:39] how do you propose a schedule? [08:40] jsgotangco: I dont understand [08:40] how would the schedule work? [08:40] does svn diff ignore the build directory? [08:41] no [08:41] yes' [08:41] which [08:41] it ingnores files that are not added [08:41] so it does not ignore build/kde or build/gnome [08:42] so remove them first [08:42] but it does ignore all the files in those paths because they are not added to svn [08:42] no [08:42] dont remove them [08:42] nobody did svn add on the files [08:42] oh ok [08:42] so they will be ignored [08:43] good [08:43] rob^: why dont you use eSvn [08:43] sudo apt-get install esvn [08:43] never heard of it [08:43] its a gui front-end to subversion [08:43] it may be easier for you and will teach you svn [08:43] I'll have a look [08:44] I use it [08:44] but then I am biased as I wrote the manual [08:44] ha [08:44] It's in universe === rob^ looks at esvn [08:46] rob^: go to file > options > other > status refresh [08:46] how come esvn does show the C directories [08:46] set it to online [08:46] that way it will show you the changed file status as they change in svn [08:46] you will also be able to see the files you changed [08:47] it also has external diff [08:47] and 3way diff [08:48] jsgotangco: how do you propose the scheduling idea would work? [08:49] jsgotangco: it sounds like a good idea, but how would it work? [08:50] how come there isnt anything under generic->faqguide etc.. [08:50] huh [08:50] like the C directory or the .xml files [08:51] there is [08:51] froud, breezy schedule is too general [08:52] rob create a workspace [08:52] an internal schedule would of course target the freeze schedule of breezy in general [08:52] sort of milestones [08:52] rob^: file > workspace [08:52] sounds good, but how would that help make people write? [08:53] jsgotangco: ppl hav eto keep the milestones [08:53] good question but the schedule isn't supposed to make people write [08:53] its supposed to make people aware of the time [08:53] so that they'll write [08:53] rob^: you can also do view > refresh workspace [08:53] jsgotangco: hmm, could work [08:54] the schedule isn't going to be too specific [08:54] jsgotangco: but dont you think, knowing how it works here, that people just wont do [08:54] let's just say we give next week as sort of review #1 phase [08:54] k [08:55] just saying the book is "awaiting review" won't cut it IMO [08:55] At present we have status's on all nodes [08:55] "people just won [08:55] "people just won't do" doesn't apply to everyone [08:55] sure [08:56] but those that are doing are not the target [08:56] see http://lnix.net/~froud/status/kqg-report.html [08:57] how often is the html page status updated ? [08:57] one a day or every two days [08:57] yikes [08:57] i should burn my svn again [08:57] if there are no changes I do every second day [08:57] i see soo may "HELP WANTED" now [08:58] yes the new kde-system settings section i need help [08:58] kcontrol is replaced by kde-systemsettings [08:59] but as you can see I have written Personal through to Launch Feedback [08:59] and set to review [08:59] i can't do this, i don't even have this setup to begin with [08:59] you said before you compiled it even [09:00] jsgotangco: you can do it on the status attributes [09:00] and people canbuild the html [09:00] but there is no place to upload gnome at present [09:00] no i meant the book itself [09:00] I dont understand [09:01] kcontrol is replaced [09:01] kde-systemsettings [09:01] yes replaced in breezy kubuntu [09:01] i thought you said before you compiled [09:01] jsgotangco: you mean you dont have a place to upload the docs [09:01] noooo [09:01] we are not connecting [09:01] try agian [09:01] indeed [09:01] hmm [09:02] is there a kubuntu breezy repo already? [09:02] yes in svn [09:02] trunk/kde [09:02] or do you mean the distro [09:02] hmmm im so sure we are talking in english [09:03] I have kde docs in svn [09:03] yeah the distro [09:03] like ubuntu there is no repos [09:03] its everywhere and nowhere [09:03] ok so its just updated KDE then [09:03] Riddell wanted an svn but has not [09:03] jsgotangco: kubuntu will not ship a standard kde for breezy [09:04] there will be no kcontrol [09:04] gyaahh [09:04] instead there will be kde-systemsettings [09:04] OK jsgotangco what can't you do? [09:06] jsgotangco: as I see it, you can make all the docs [09:06] and you can do the deb build for kubuntu-docs [09:07] when I build the docs and upload to lnix.net/~froud I also compile in any changes to the deb and upload that [09:07] the status pages dont get shipped [09:07] and we use them just for status's === BeerDump [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:12] jsgotangco: ? [09:13] jsgotangco: we're talking about status notes on docs [09:13] what I am saying is that we have status notes [09:13] morning [09:13] morn [09:14] jsgotangco: so if there is status, how does that fit with schedule [09:14] jsgotangco: perhaps you want a given number of nodes to be at a given status by a certain date? === mdke rubs his eyes in disbelief [09:15] jsgotangco: that would be a milestone [09:15] mdke: what? Have I done someting wrong again? [09:16] i see a long scrollback [09:16] but i can't figure out what the hell you guys are talking about [09:16] uhm I was helping rob^ and the jsgotangco is thinking about a schedule [09:17] but I dont understand how it works [09:17] and now he mentions status's so I show status reports [09:17] and from there I am lost [09:17] sounds like he's had too much green tea again [09:17] I can't understand [09:18] trying to [09:18] why? [09:19] well the idea of a schedule may be good [09:19] I would like to explore the idea and see how it works with our current system [09:20] mdke: js is proposing milestones [09:20] robitaille, nice work man [09:20] to get people writing with a focus [09:20] mdke: it comes back to the problem you mentioned [09:21] mdke: many people have commit accounts, but not many are committing content [09:21] we are volunteers [09:21] its natural [09:21] i don't see a problem i have to say [09:22] yes, we volunteer, but we that do commit can't do everything [09:22] ok [09:22] everyone should do what they can [09:22] and we would like to get books done so we can package them [09:22] no point packing something that is not done [09:22] i'm not against a schedule if people agree, the people responsible for docs should take care of it [09:22] so those that commit have to do even more [09:23] i am against forcing people to do more than they can though [09:23] fine [09:23] agreed [09:23] but how to make progress with small number of active committers [09:23] i'm off to play tennis [09:23] see ya later [09:23] enjoy [09:24] BeerDump: fine what? [09:24] no schedule then [09:25] i c [09:26] ok ppl luv you and leave you till l8tr === froud [~sean@ndn-165-142-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Konversation] [09:50] brb === jsgotangco [~user@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:02] mdke: I'm off for the night. As per your earlier request, I left you a few icons to play with on WikiGardeningIcons :) [10:03] oohhhh [10:03] robitaille: night [10:06] exit === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:52] ciao enrico [10:54] ciao [10:55] come va? [10:57] mdke: bene [10:58] I'm leaving friday for debconf and today I have to start preparing my 1 talk and 2 workshops, buying liquors and the like :) [11:03] haha [11:03] essential preparation eh [11:03] enrico, portati il limoncello [11:04] enrico, i don't know if you noticed, we changed the default QA for documentation to be the ubuntu-doc@lists [11:05] hope this is ok! === ealden [~ealden@219.90.91.2] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:08] it's very ok. It didn't have much sense to point to me now [11:08] cool thanks === jsgotangco [~user@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === matt_ [~mdke@81-178-116-62.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ealden [~ealden@219.90.91.2] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud [~froud@ndn-165-142-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:21]