[12:03] <sabdfl> Mez: good point
[12:03] <Seveas> welcome lilo
[12:04] <ogra> mako, lead us !
[12:04] <mdke> heh
[12:04] <mako> umm..
[12:04] <mako> ok
[12:04] <sabdfl> hey lilo, i'll ping you when we get to your agenda topic
[12:04] <lilo> sabdfl: thank you!
[12:04] <mako> silbs, you around?
[12:04] <silbs> mako: yes
[12:04] <mako> silbs asked to handle the art team first
[12:04] <Mez> FTR: I'm Martin Meredith
[12:04] <mako> which, i think makese sense
[12:04] <mako> so yes
[12:04] <mako> everyone should state their name for the record/log
[12:04] <ogra> OliverGrawert
[12:04] <mdke> <-- Matthew East
[12:05] <bddebian> <-- Barry deFreese
[12:05] <kinjoo> <-- Josh Kress
[12:05] <sabdfl> elmo sends apologies, he is mid-move with no net access
[12:05] <mako> my suggestion is to do the art team first and then to go back to the new maintainers and the rest in order
[12:05] <sabdfl> ok, ArtworkTeam
[12:06] <mako> right
[12:06] <mako> silbs: want to give us the few-sentance version?
[12:06] <Mez> mako: you mean new Members not maintainers right ?
[12:06] <silbs> there has been interest in having an artwork team. The purpose is outlined on the wiki page ArtTeam
[12:06] <Seveas> Mez, new maint. is not CC business
[12:06] <sabdfl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtTeam
[12:06] <silbs> I took the initiative to suggest some short term goals
[12:07] <mdke> awesome idea
[12:07] <silbs> 6-7 members were already signed up, but the team has never had formal approval from the CC
[12:07] <sabdfl> there's a lot of community interest in artwork generally
[12:07] <Mez> Seveas, my point exavtly, mako said new Maintainers :D
[12:07] <Seveas> will the art team save the Ubuntu calendar?
[12:07] <sabdfl> Seveas: yes!
[12:07] <Seveas> +1 from me then
[12:07] <mdke> ;)
[12:07] <ogra> ++
[12:08] <silbs> one of the goals (is the team accepts it) should be that the art team makes calendar wallpapers
[12:08] <mdke> i have one small question
[12:08] <sabdfl> there are a couple of names already
[12:08] <sabdfl> andyfitz is working on icons, but needs community direction
[12:08] <mako> mdke: shoot
[12:08] <mdke> when the april fool gdm screen happened, i got some complaints from people who were running ubuntu in their business
[12:08] <Seveas> i'm a (imnsho) relatively good photographer so I would like to join the team for wallpapers
[12:08] <mako> silbs: andyfitz is not on the list of members.. is that just an oversite?
[12:08] <mdke> that is artwork related right? does anyone have any views?
[12:09] <\sh> mdke: u mean with the 3 *sses?
[12:09] <sabdfl> volvoguy has done quite a bit of work, and is interested in the team
[12:09] <Seveas> mdke, Hoary was not released back then, businesses should not have used it
[12:09] <mako> mdke: i think that's a sepereate issue we should maybe addres between now and next april.. but maybe not now
[12:09] <sabdfl> Seveas: it was accidentally uploaded to warty too
[12:09] <mdke> mako, fair enough
[12:09] <silbs> mako: the list was a self-sign up thing.  I didn't add any of those names. I've spoken to Andy, who has already been working on icons. He was psyched about the idea of a team and more input on the icons
[12:09] <mako> ok, that's what i suspected
[12:09] <mako> i suspect there are some other folks not on that list that would also be interested
[12:10] <sabdfl> so that we have a point of contact, i'd like to nominate volvoguy as a short-term leader, for six months
[12:10] <silbs> because Kamion wasn't sure if he coul dmake the mtg, I spoke to him about this earlier.  He was concerned about a leader for the team.
[12:10] <mako> my main concern with new teams is that i don't want to create unnecessary divisions and buerocracy or empty teams
[12:10] <mdz> silbs: did you receive a response from volvoguy?
[12:10] <silbs> the suggestion was that we ask someone to lead for a temp period (say 6 months), and then let the team pick their own leader.
[12:10] <sabdfl> after six months we can review that, and choose someone based on the feelings of the team as it has emerged over that period
[12:10] <mako> it sounds like in this team, a team would be a good catalyst and organizational structure for continued work
[12:11] <sabdfl> do we have a mailing list for them?
[12:11] <Seveas> mako++
[12:11] <silbs> I asked Aaron Waite (sp?, volvoguy) if he would be willing to lead on a temp basis.  volvoguy has been very active with artwork stuff.
[12:11] <mdke> i feel sure that the team would attract contributors after being set up, lots of people are interested in artwork
[12:11] <silbs> sabdfl: we have a list ready to go - not announced yet. Was waiting for CC approval
[12:11] <mako> sabdfl: what was kamion concerned about?
[12:12] <Seveas> I like the docteam approach for handling contributions: a few people with repository access and a mailing list for contributions
[12:12] <mako> is there a reason we would not want to start with a team secretary/contact ala locoteams instead and then let the team decide over a few months what they want/need?
[12:12] <\sh> actually, artwork needs to be approved by tb or cc because it concerns the whole distri *mypoint*
[12:12] <Seveas> Maybe the artwork team should use that too
[12:12] <silbs> mako: Kamion was concerned about having a leader/contact person/coordinator/secretary
[12:12] <mdke> mako, cool idea
[12:12] <mdke> Seveas, cool idea too
[12:12] <Seveas> mako++ (again :))
[12:12] <mako> \sh: quite honestly, i don't have an interest in approving all artwork?
[12:12] <\sh> mako: no...but the way to go
[12:13] <mako> silbs: i'd like one too, but we've been burned by this before.. i'd prefer the contact/secretary (which we need) and then we let the team decide if they need/want more
[12:13] <Seveas> mako, I think that the artteam should do that
[12:13] <\sh> it's a window to the world, how we're presenting ubuntu to the world
[12:13] <Seveas> and that the CC should approve only the final artwork per release
[12:13] <mako> \sh: i think we should trust teh team to do the work and then get involved when there is problem
[12:13] <mdz> mako: so you support the creation of an official team?
[12:13] <silbs> so I don't have an answer from volveguy yet, but I propose that if he is willing then he start with that coordinator/secretary/whatever role (on a temp basis, till team gets rolling)
[12:13] <\sh> mako: i would ++ Seveas point ...
[12:14] <mako> mdz: yes
[12:14] <mako> mdz: absolutely
[12:14] <Seveas> Creative minds work better when combined
[12:14] <sabdfl> agreed that it should be a temp appointment, and subject to review at six months or sooner if it doesn't work
[12:14] <ogra> mako, but thats what you look at the next six months.... i would like to see that it is accepted by a broad majority of our users before release
[12:14] <sabdfl> but volvoguys has been committed and active
[12:15] <mdz> artwork is an area which needs some initiative; the creation of a team would help to organize the ambition which is already forming in the community
[12:15] <ogra> ++ for volovoguy
[12:15] <mako> ogra: yes, getting things out there for preview *is* important
[12:15] <ogra> mdz, but agreement form the community should still be required...
[12:15] <\sh> ok...++ for team + artwork + after 6 months a majority vote on the work
[12:16] <Seveas> 3 months this time, artwork deadline is end of september...
[12:16] <Seveas> 6 months was for leader appointment
[12:16] <ogra> Seveas, it should be public some time before 
[12:16] <mako> sabdfl: so, there's consensus to form the team
[12:16] <sabdfl> ok, so there are three proposals in front of the cc
[12:17] <mako> sabdfl: thanks.. i'm trying to sort out what we're deciding here
[12:17] <\sh> silbs: can u prepare a fitting artwork (icons etc.) for gnome+kde?
[12:17] <sabdfl> let's hear from everyone, +1 or -1 or 0 on each oh these:
[12:17] <sabdfl>  - setting up an artwork team, and asking volvoguy to coordinate for the first six months
[12:17] <Seveas> +1
[12:17] <\sh> +1
[12:17] <ogra> +1
[12:17] <bddebian> +1 If I get a vote yet. :-)
[12:17] <kinjoo> +1
[12:17] <smurfix> +1
[12:17] <mako> +1
[12:18] <mdke> +1
[12:18] <mvo> +1
[12:18] <silbs> +1
[12:18] <sabdfl> er...
[12:18] <sabdfl> that should do it then, kamion was +1 too
[12:18] <Mez> +1
[12:18] <Mez> ;)
[12:18] <mako> i'd prefer that we stayed away from "leading" but, it's mostly semantic.. i think there's an important responsiblity to be filled and i think he's the guy to do it
[12:18] <mako> :)
[12:18] <ogra> SPOC !
[12:18] <mdke> mako, :)
[12:18] <Mez> mako - thats why he said coordinate not lead :D
[12:18] <sabdfl> ok - thanks guys
[12:18] <ogra> (single point of contact !)
[12:18] <sabdfl> next!
[12:18] <silbs> if volvoguy doesn't have time or can't for some reason, is there anyone here who would like that coordinator role?
[12:19] <mako> Mez: liike i said, it's semantic
[12:19] <Mez> ;)P
[12:19] <\sh> silbs: u? ,-)
[12:19] <Seveas> silbs, Andy Fitzsimon perhaps?
[12:19] <ogra> silbs, i'm available for packaging
[12:19] <silbs> \sh: nope, not me.  No artistic talent at all :)
[12:19] <sabdfl> ogra: could you add yourself as the technical contact for artwork packaging?
[12:19] <\sh> silbs: coordinating != painting ;)
[12:19] <ogra> sabdfl, sure :)
[12:20] <mako> i'd like to lurk/follow the team as well
[12:20] <mako> looking at pretty pictures > reading more emails
[12:20] <\sh> mako: hahaha
[12:20] <mdke> heh
[12:20] <mako> sabdfl: you said there were three issues
[12:20] <\sh> mako: i have a lot ;) 
[12:20] <sabdfl> mako: i could send you the raw files for the original calendar?
[12:20] <mako> sabdfl: but your breakdown isn't the same as mine apparently.. was was 2/3
[12:20] <nalioth> would think there'd a list to lurk 
[12:21] <mako> sabdfl: DUDE, you have those?!
[12:21] <mako> sabdfl: mako@ubuntu.com
[12:21] <sabdfl> mako: that's because i can't count
[12:21] <mako> sabdfl: ok, so we've done three already?
[12:21] <sabdfl> mako: yes, and yes ;-)
[12:21] <mako> awesome
[12:21] <sabdfl> so, next?
[12:21] <mako> silbs: alright, you win
[12:22] <silbs> mako: thanks :)
[12:22] <mako> silbs: what do you need from us? an announcement?
[12:22] <mako> silbs: you have the list, etc.. anything else?
[12:22] <sabdfl> mako: can we add UbuntuSpatial to the agenda, please?
[12:22] <mdz> mako: the mailing list already exists; it needs CC endorsement ;-)
[12:22] <mdz> sabdfl++
[12:22] <sabdfl> mdz: that's done
[12:23] <ogra> sabdfl, UbuntuSpatial ? 
[12:23] <mako> sabdfl: for this meeting?
[12:23] <silbs> mako: the list (ubuntu-art) is ready. proposed goals are on the wiki.  Would like to talk to volvoguy, then we just need an announcement. I can coordinate that with you tomorrow
[12:23] <Mez> can someone poke me when member candidates come up?
[12:23] <sabdfl> the opportunity for me to prostrate myself before the wizards of Gnome and ask forgiveness for that particular error
[12:23] <\sh> ogra: raeumlich :)
[12:23] <mdke> Mez, yes
[12:23] <Seveas> Mez, ack
[12:23] <\sh> ogra: regional :)
[12:23] <mako> sabdfl: ok
[12:23] <ogra> \sh, yes...
[12:24] <mako> silbs: sounds perfect
[12:24] <sabdfl> mako: i've already had mine for the evening :-)
[12:24] <mdz> mdke: yes?
[12:24] <mdke> haha
[12:24] <sabdfl> ok, member candidates?
[12:24] <mako> silbs: i am giving two talks tomorrow but should be around enough to coordinate
[12:24] <mako> sabdfl: yes
[12:24] <mdke> Mez, poke
[12:24] <mako> ok.. not everyone was here
[12:24] <sabdfl> pvaneynd?
[12:24] <mako> PeterVanEynde ?
[12:25] <mako> not this week?
[12:25] <tseng> i mailed him
[12:25] <Mez> hehe :D
[12:25] <mako> JeanRemyFalleri ?
[12:25] <tseng> about being more visible in MOTU
[12:25] <tseng> no luck.
[12:25] <mako> tseng, ogra: next time :)
[12:25] <ogra> yep
[12:25] <sabdfl> JRe?
[12:25] <mako> more luck with Jean Remy ?
[12:26] <ogra> sad he's missing.. kubuntu would be happy
[12:26] <mako> who was here last time IIRC
[12:26] <mako> ogra: kubuntu can be happy next time
[12:26] <Mez> didnt JRe get passed last week ?
[12:26] <\sh> yeah..jre is a nice add
[12:26] <Seveas> wasn't he approved..?
[12:26] <ogra> hmm....
[12:26] <Mez> he was approved last time with me
[12:26] <ogra> yep...
[12:26] <mako> i think we asked to come back in two weeks
[12:26] <Seveas> hmm
[12:26] <Mez> nope Mako - you approved him
[12:26] <Mez> same as me :D
[12:26] <tseng> he did the packaging guide
[12:26] <ogra> mako, hmm, i think Mez is right...
[12:26] <mako> yes, yes, i have it on my list
[12:27] <\sh> jre is member 
[12:27] <Seveas> welcome Kamion 
[12:27] <Mez> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntumembers/+members
[12:27] <mdke> hi Kamion :)
[12:27] <Mez> he's in approved on there mako
[12:27] <\sh> he wasn't motu 
[12:27] <sabdfl> hey Kamion! grab a beer
[12:27] <ogra> or a coffee :=
[12:27] <\sh> he isn't motu better to say
[12:27] <ogra> :)
[12:27] <mako> well, no CoC yet, but he's approved
[12:27] <mdz> Kamion: good evening
[12:27] <mako> someone tell the man to send me a signed CoC
[12:27] <Kamion> a lemsip in my case
[12:27] <\sh> mako: i will poke him and advise him
[12:27] <mako> alright, lets move on
[12:27] <mdke> but he's in the member group in launchpad
[12:27] <mako> kinjoo: DUDE
[12:27] <kinjoo> I#m here
[12:28] <mako> so, here's the deal
[12:28] <mako> you should give us a few sentances of what you've done for ubuntu
[12:28] <Mez> being in the member group doesnt mean member - just approved
[12:28] <mako> and then a sentance or so about hwere you want to see the project go
[12:28] <kinjoo> OK!
[12:28] <mako> and what you want to do to take it there
[12:29] <mdke> Mez, ok... not that logical tho ;)
[12:29] <kinjoo> Well, I think the most important I've done so far:
[12:29] <kinjoo> Promoting Ubuntu at my dorm
[12:29] <kinjoo> and at LinuxTag
[12:29] <kinjoo> which rocked!
[12:29] <mdke> awesome
[12:29] <Mez> mdke: I think the approved bit = added as approved memebr and when you sign a CoC you get karma added on launchpad
[12:30] <\sh> nice..next year I will visit the linuxtag ;) 
[12:30] <Kamion>  /whois kinjoo
[12:30] <kinjoo> I've talked to a lot of University members
[12:30] <mdz> Kamion: ;-)
[12:30] <Kamion> JoshKress?
[12:30] <\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoshKress
[12:30] <Kamion> mdz: (intentional)
[12:30] <Seveas> yes Kamion 
[12:30] <\sh> yes
[12:30] <ogra> Kamion, 
[12:30] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoshKress
[12:30] <kinjoo> They'd be happy to help spread ubuntu
[12:30] <ogra> grmpf
[12:30] <kinjoo> Kamion: yes
[12:30] <Seveas> kinjoo, do you cooperate with ubuntuusers.de?
[12:30] <\sh> kinjoo: u mentioned on your wiki page: "Writing a book about ubuntu"
[12:30] <mako> kinjoo did *serious* work to make ubuntu at linuxtag a success
[12:30] <mako> he was also at mataro
[12:30] <kinjoo> The future: Ubuntu should rule the world ;-)
[12:31] <ogra> mako, yes, he snores :)
[12:31] <\sh> kinjoo: u mean o'reilly germany, in cologne?
[12:31] <mdke> there was a book published in german, was that yours kinjoo ?
[12:31] <kinjoo> yes I had a long phone call this morning
[12:31] <\sh> kinjoo: u will write, or u wrote?
[12:31] <ogra> mdke, you mean the book from kofler ? 
[12:31] <kinjoo> mdke: no this was Kofler's
[12:31] <\sh> ah...
[12:31] <mdke> ah right
[12:31] <kinjoo> I write a new one
[12:32] <\sh> so especially ubuntu is covered?
[12:32] <kinjoo> wil be GNU FDL
[12:32] <mako> kinjoo: :)
[12:32] <mdke> coo
[12:32] <mdke> l
[12:32] <\sh> kinjoo++ :)
[12:32] <kinjoo> to include it to Ubuntu
[12:32] <mako> kinjoo has done great work promoting ubuntu and playing a major leadership role in the german ubuntu loco presence
[12:32] <\sh> kinjoo: can u get in contact with sebastian for php includes for ubuntu? ,-)
[12:32] <sabdfl> kinjoo: fantastic work in Linux Tag, btw
[12:32] <kinjoo> will be german first, then hopefully english (depends on OReilyy USA)
[12:33] <kinjoo> sabdfl: Thanks!
[12:33] <mako> i appreciated his work at LT and enjoyed the kebap i ate with him on the way to the trainstation
[12:33] <sabdfl> so, CC, yes, or defer, to kinjoo membership in the ubuntu project?
[12:33] <kinjoo> mako: ;-)
[12:33] <Seveas> kinjoo++
[12:33] <ogra> ++
[12:33] <mako> (but i have never meat a kebab i didn't enjoy)
[12:33] <\sh> kinjoo: ++
[12:33] <mdke> kinjoo, if you like you can help the Documentation Team, just give us an email :D
[12:33] <mako> ++ from me
[12:33] <mvo> kinjoo++
[12:33] <\sh> mako: come to kerpen ;)
[12:33] <mdke> kinjoo ++ for membership
[12:33] <Seveas> past advocacy work definitely qualifies imho
[12:33] <sabdfl> Kamion: ?
[12:34] <kinjoo> mdke: certainly!
[12:34] <mdke> kinjoo, that would be great, we are working on a number of books right now, you can see the list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects
[12:34] <\sh> kinjoo: if you have a meeting here in cologne with the o'reilly guys, give me a call to sign keys and have a beer :)
[12:34] <Mez> brb
[12:35] <kinjoo> \sh: cool, I call u
[12:35] <\sh> kinjoo: would be nice, if we can get sebastian bergmann, to work with us on ubuntu php or something...but he is involved right now in gentoo :(
[12:35] <Seveas> ubuntu php?
[12:35] <Mez> seveas ++
[12:35] <\sh> kinjoo: but I think to get some contacts at o'reilly ping him and greetings from me
[12:36] <sabdfl> i'm guessing colin / kamion is afk right now
[12:36] <Mez> (or should that be +?)
[12:36] <sabdfl> +1 from me for kinjoo
[12:36] <kinjoo> \sh: I will talk to him!
[12:36] <sabdfl> i have a casting vote, which i'll use here to welcome kinjoo aboard
[12:36] <\sh> kinjoo: welcome on board :) if it's working u rock dude
[12:36] <Seveas> welcome kinjoo !
[12:36] <ogra> sabdfl, well done :)
[12:36] <Mez> congrats kinjoo
[12:37] <Kamion> kinjoo> +1
[12:37] <sabdfl> kinjoo: thanks again for your advocacy
[12:37] <kinjoo> Thank you, guys!
[12:37] <sabdfl> Kamion: phew :-)
[12:37] <Kamion> sorry for lag, I'm catching up elsewhere
[12:37] <ogra> kinjoo, welcome
[12:37] <\sh> hahah
[12:37] <sabdfl> np
[12:37] <\sh> guys: ubuntu php is only an idea :)
[12:37] <mako> alright
[12:37] <sabdfl> Kamion: you vector. i'm bunged up this eve
[12:37] <sabdfl> next up!
[12:37] <ogra> nalioth
[12:37] <mako> lets move on
[12:37] <Seveas> MarekSpruell
[12:37] <sabdfl> marek spruell?
[12:38] <Kamion> sabdfl: d'oh :-/
[12:38] <Mez> nalioth
[12:38] <sabdfl> nalioth: around?
[12:38] <nalioth> howdy
[12:38] <\sh> nalioth: u r not a member?
[12:38] <nalioth> i had to work during last cc
[12:38] <Seveas> last week he got the 2-week-notice
[12:38] <ogra> nalioth, so how is UbuntuNUN going ? 
[12:38] <nalioth> in the meat world
[12:38] <Mez> nalitoh got put off for 2 weeks and missed last one
[12:38] <mdz> Kamion: sabdfl is trying to transmit your pathology to me
[12:38] <Kamion> ogra: beat me to it] 
[12:38] <Kamion> mdz: I don't want to know
[12:39] <ogra> Kamion, new users network
[12:39] <mdz> Kamion: easy, tiger
[12:39] <mako> nalioth: want to do the intro to your work and your vision?
[12:39] <nalioth> i have been working with Mez and Seveas concerning the NUN
[12:39] <Seveas> ubuntuNUN is still in early stages, nalioth and /me are working on specs and things
[12:39] <Kamion> ogra: yeah, I know, that's why I was about to ask about it too
[12:39] <Mez> oi and me Seveas !
[12:39] <nalioth> have been pointing prospective 'mentors' to the sign-up page
[12:39] <Seveas> but i've been a tad busy myself so it god delayed on my side
[12:39] <ogra> Kamion, yes, i just remembered you dislike of abbrev.
[12:39] <\sh> NUN is ruling da world 
[12:40] <Seveas> NuN will be great, nalioth is doing good IRC work too
[12:40] <\sh> I just saw seveas and others answering a lot of questions lately
[12:40] <nalioth> i help out quite a bit in #ubuntu with the "new" new user questions
[12:40] <mdke> is there a URL for this NuN thing?
[12:40] <Mez> for anyone who's interested: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/unp/+members
[12:40] <\sh> and nalioth is doing good work as well
[12:40] <ogra> got a wiki page ? 
[12:40] <mdke> found it
[12:40] <Mez> ogra: still in developemtn
[12:40] <mdke> NewUserNetwork <- ogra
[12:40] <\sh> hope u get rid of those stupid "Newbie" stuff ;)
[12:40] <ogra> mdke, thanks :)
[12:40] <Mez> sabdfl, you gave me the idea to use it :D 
[12:41] <\sh> my idea actually
[12:41] <Seveas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserNetwork
[12:41] <Mez> \sh what was your idea?
[12:41] <\sh> mez: NUN
[12:41] <Mez> ah the name :D
[12:41] <Mez> lol
[12:41] <Mez> and the concept :D
[12:41] <mdke> nice guidelines Seveas 
[12:41] <mako> nuns :)
[12:41] <\sh> the concept, i have nothing to do with it ;) but the meaning of Ubuntu and NUN comes along quite nicely :)
[12:42] <Seveas> which reminds me, i'll put op ubuntuguide.org for the next agenda...
[12:42] <Mez> yeah, we're thinking of getting NUNHelpers to sign the guidelines...
[12:42] <Mez> Seveas - I think we'll be putting up NUN too :D
[12:42] <Mez> anyways
[12:42] <mdke> i don't like the name NewbieGods
[12:42] <\sh> mdke: ++
[12:42] <mdke> its a bit patronising
[12:42] <Seveas> mdke, that has been scrapped already
[12:42] <sabdfl> mdke: agreed
[12:42] <Mez> mdke - we're changing it :D
[12:42] <nalioth> mdke: it will be changed in all places
[12:42] <Mez> we said all this last meeting :D
[12:42] <mdke> okies
[12:42] <mako> dd/win 24
[12:42] <Mez> and we'll be changing it
[12:42] <\sh> I told seveas to rename and/or remove it...newbies is just a word like "stoopids"
[12:43] <Seveas> indeed
[12:43] <bddebian> Hey, I resemble that remark
[12:43] <Seveas> the NuN will not talk about newbies OR gods
[12:43] <mdke> its simple to rename pages, just check the backlinks by cliccking on the page title, then fix the links, then rename
[12:43] <mdke> i don't mind doing it
[12:43] <Seveas> But let's get back to the agenda, we were discussing nalioth
[12:43] <mako> Seveas: thanks
[12:43] <Mez> mdke :D we're getting around to it :D I've been moving house so thats why it's been going slow :D and yeah - nalioth
[12:43] <mako> right
[12:43] <Seveas> +1 from me
[12:43] <sabdfl> could any of the other NUN guys comment on nalioth's contribution?
[12:43] <ogra> +1 for nalioth 
[12:44] <Mez> sabdfl, to NUN ?
[12:44] <ogra> Mez, overall
[12:44] <sabdfl> Mez: across the board
[12:44] <\sh> as I said. nalitoth is doing a great job...I can't do it
[12:44] <ogra> \sh, so everything you cant do is great ??
[12:44] <mako> +1 from me
[12:44] <Mez> across the board: nalitoh +1 from me, he's been doing a great job recruiting for NUN and also a great job supporting people via IRC...
[12:44] <Mez> he says he puts in 10 hours a week
[12:44] <\sh> ogra: no :)
[12:44] <Mez> seems more like 20
[12:44] <Mez> nalioth +1
[12:45] <sabdfl> Kamion: your vote on nalioth for membership? NewUserNetwork admin and strong forum contributor
[12:45] <\sh> ogra: but sometimes I don't have the nerves for this new user thing. and I agree with larf...we need to inform the peopel, give them knowledge..so nalioth ++1
[12:45] <bddebian> Hmm, that might actually be one place I can help
[12:45] <Mez> strong IRC contributor sabdfl 
[12:45] <Mez> bddebian, poke me after the meeting and we'll talk
[12:46] <bddebian> OK, thx
[12:46] <Kamion> I haven't encountered nalioth myself much, but he seems to have a fan club among people I do know :-) +1
[12:46] <Seveas> Request to interrupt the members discussion after nalioth
[12:46] <bddebian> Doh I'll never get home.. :-)
[12:46] <Seveas> lilo has to leave soon, so can we please schedule the freenode registration now
[12:46] <sabdfl> ok, +1 from me too, welcome nalioth!
[12:47] <ogra> hello nalioth 
[12:47] <nalioth> thanks, y'all
[12:47] <Seveas> welcome aboard, nalioth
[12:47] <Seveas> signed CoC's go to mako :)
[12:47] <sabdfl> nalioth: you need to get a signed CoC to mako, and request membersip at https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntumembers/
[12:47] <Mez> nalioth needs to get a key signed first ;)
[12:47] <lips> hi all
[12:47] <ogra> Mez, he can also find a notary
[12:48] <bddebian> Hello lips
[12:48] <mako> #
[12:48] <mako> RajasekarKarthik
[12:48] <tseng> mako: no no
[12:48] <Seveas> make, wait
[12:48] <Mez> ogra: notary?
[12:48] <Seveas> mako*
[12:48] <Seveas> read my last lines please :)
[12:48] <Seveas> Request to interrupt the members discussion after nalioth
[12:48] <Seveas> lilo has to leave soon, so can we please schedule the freenode registration now
[12:48] <sabdfl> ok
[12:48] <ogra> nalioth, nope
[12:48] <mako> got it sorry
[12:48] <Seveas> lilo, you're up :)
[12:48] <mako> please, go ahead
[12:48] <ogra> nalioth, its the alternative way
[12:49] <lilo> okay.... first of all, I should introduce myself
[12:49] <lilo> I'm Rob Levin, the executive director of Peer-Directed Projects Center and the head of staff of its project freenode
[12:49] <sabdfl> karthik085, you are next, please shout if you are present?
[12:49] <lilo> thank you so much for putting us on the agenda!
[12:49] <Seveas> yw :)
[12:50] <lilo> as you may have seen on the website, we're eternally in the process of transitioning from something that is not quite normal IRC to something that is slightly less like normal IRC :)
[12:50] <Kamion> lilo: thanks for going to the effort of going through these channels :-)
[12:50] <Mez> karthik doesnt seem to be here
[12:50] <lilo> Kamion: not a problem :)
[12:50] <Kamion> er, channels not in the IRC sense ...
[12:50] <lilo> Kamion: glad to :)
[12:51] <lilo> one of the latest changes is that we are in the process of slowly producing a replacement for irc services which is oriented more toward users and real-world gro
[12:51] <lilo> ups than toward nicks and channels
[12:51] <lilo> (forgive me, lack of sleep and an unfamiliar keyboard here :)
[12:51] <bddebian> NP
[12:51] <sabdfl> (terrex: btw, you'll be up next, could you be ready with a few sentences on where you'd like to take the ubuntu project and what your contribution has been so far?)
[12:52] <lilo> the new system involves registering organizations and then providing them with user cloaking and with more direct control of their channels
[12:52] <lilo> as a forerunner to the new system, we have instituted a manual group registration process so that we can provide groups with some additional assistance in the interim, particularly, cloaks
[12:52] <lilo> so that's where you guys come in :)
[12:53] <Mez> lilo - I'm surprised you're coming to us about this rather than us coming to you
[12:53] <Kamion> FWIW, we did discuss the group registration thing at one point a while back
[12:53] <\sh> lilo: u mean: #ubuntu* -> canonical/ubuntu?
[12:53] <mdke> that's service eh
[12:53] <Kamion> I think it didn't happen due to lack of effort more than anything else
[12:53] <Kamion> but I could be wrong
[12:53] <lilo> Mez: I'm hoping to get most of the major projects cut over *before* the new software comes in
[12:53] <Seveas> I for one am totally supporting registering Ubuntu to show teamspirit
[12:53] <lilo> \sh: exactly
[12:54] <Mez> lilo :D nice we're recognised :D I was actually going to suggest talking to you guys about this in AOB - till it came up on the agenta :D
[12:54] <lilo> one of the near-term advantages to the new system is that we can cloak your members for you, as a way to show their affiliation :)
[12:54] <Seveas> And am volunteering to be the contact, if the CC agrees
[12:54] <lilo> Mez: :)
[12:54] <lilo> since I'm a bit short on time, let me point you to the basic docs
[12:54] <lilo> and summarize
[12:54] <lilo> http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml describes registration and points to the registration form
[12:54] <\sh> lilo: what's the purpose of cloaking anyways?
[12:55] <lilo> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#groups is the section of the faq which talks about groups
[12:55] <mdke> \sh, hides your ip/gives you l33t status
[12:55] <Seveas> \sh, showing group participation
[12:55] <Kamion> lilo: awkward question: do you see Canonical and Ubuntu as the same organisation from this point of view? As you may know, there are some internal Canonical channels too.
[12:55] <Mez> \sh - /whois riddell
[12:55] <lilo> \sh: it's really for you guys to label your participants
[12:55] <lilo> \sh: it's a way to give them a little pat on the back, and to show your project around freenode as well
[12:55] <lilo> we like it because it gives freenode participants more of a window into who's working on what
[12:56] <\sh> lilo: so, if i'm working for more projects then ubuntu, i have a problem, right? or can I cloak on channel level?
[12:56] <Seveas> \sh, no you cannot
[12:56] <lilo> \sh: right now you'd have to pick a single project to cloak yourself 
[12:56] <lilo> \sh: there's no convenient way to switch
[12:56] <Seveas> \sh, file a wishlist bug :)
[12:56] <\sh> Seveas: this is not the point ;)
[12:56] <lilo> but eventually you'll be able to select your cloak at any given moment, and I suspect your user page and whois could show all your affiliations
[12:56] <Mez> lilo, but I'm sure thats something you could work on?
[12:57] <sabdfl> Kamion: i guess it would all be ubuntu
[12:57] <lilo> Mez: definitely
[12:57] <lilo> Mez: we're going to a more web-based system
[12:57] <Kamion> sabdfl: if you're happy with that, by definition so am I ;-)
[12:57] <lilo> Mez: and there I think we'll have a lot more configuration options
[12:57] <lilo> Mez: chat remains the same, but services will be more web-based
[12:57] <sabdfl> Kamion: i'm open to suggestions of course, just saying i don't have a need to dfferentiate
[12:57] <\sh> lilo: one question more: how many user contributed servers do u have now in your network, where u have at least irc-admin access to ?
[12:57] <Seveas> lilo, why do you want as many groups as possible now instead of when the new software is there?
[12:57] <lilo> Mez: and the intent is definitely to give people more cloaking options
[12:57] <Mez> lilo - couldnt you make it more like a "hostserv" style thing to enable you to switch cloak?
[12:58] <sabdfl> lilo: is there a cost?
[12:58] <lilo> \sh: I'd have to check, probably currently about 25
[12:58] <lilo> sabdfl: there is no cost whatsoever
[12:58] <Mez> sabdfl, nope - read the documents
[12:58] <lilo> sabdfl: we do it because you're participants 8)
[12:58] <mdke> haha
[12:58] <lilo> sabdfl: well, there is one slight cost
[12:58] <\sh> lilo: liar ;)
[12:58] <sabdfl> lilo: can we easily feed you a text list of members?
[12:58] <ogra> heh
[12:58] <sabdfl> and update it automatically?
[12:58] <Kamion> sabdfl: the only issue would be if there were any kind of network-imposed access control policy
[12:58] <lilo> sabdfl: to get cloaks, you need to fill out a group contact form, at which point you acknowledge an official relationship with us :)
[12:58] <mdz> lilo: what do you gain when more users particpate in this?
[12:59] <lilo> sabdfl: basically, you say, "we're here" :)
[12:59] <Seveas> sabdfl, it takes a group contact to do that
[12:59] <lilo> sabdfl: that's the cost :)
[12:59] <sabdfl> because we could link the launchpad membership list to that, and then it would be automatic
[12:59] <mdke> ++
[12:59] <ogra> sabdfl++
[12:59] <Seveas> \sh, cloaking is not the only point
[12:59] <sabdfl> \sh: is cloaking optional? lilo?
[12:59] <lilo> mdz: we gain one more official participating group, and we gain the advantage of having your participants more visible on the net
[12:59] <Mez> lilo - you should have said it costs a lot ;) mark's a rich guy ya know :D
[12:59] <Mez> :P
[12:59] <sabdfl> Mez: rich and STINGY!
[12:59] <bddebian> heh
[12:59] <smurfix> Cloaking is optional, says the FAQ
[12:59] <lilo> Mez: hehe
[01:00] <\sh> it doesn't give u a security at all...so it's only cosmetic
[01:00] <sabdfl> ok, this sounds fun
[01:00] <lilo> sabdfl: so, it's, like, pretty cheap :)
[01:00] <lilo> \sh: not much security yet
[01:00] <Mez> sabdfl, yet you pay to go to space and agree to talk for free at LRL
[01:00] <lilo> \sh: again, something we plan to improve
[01:00] <Mez> sabdfl, you say link it to launchpad - which member group ?
[01:00] <sabdfl> Mez: moments of weakness, of which i';m sometimes proud ;-)
[01:00] <mdz> Mez: for example, Ubuntu
[01:00] <lilo> I will note that, when it comes to programmer help, freenode is probably the lowest-priority project on freenode 8)
[01:00] <lilo> but we're slowly making improvements :)
[01:00] <\sh> lilo: so, cloaking is a nice to have for someone wants to show off...but gives u no security against floods or ddos?
[01:01] <sabdfl> mez: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/ubuntumembers/+members
[01:01] <lilo> \sh: it provides some security
[01:01] <lilo> \sh: there are race conditions
[01:01] <Kamion> lilo: if we fed you a membership list automatically as a list of project members, would all those folks end up cloaked, or can you distinguish in a slightly more fine-grained way between project members and project members who want cloaks?
[01:01] <lilo> \sh: again, that we plan to resolve
[01:01] <Mez> sabdfl, and we're only glad you do have those moments of weakness... we wouldnt be here if you did
[01:01] <Seveas> Kamion, users will have to set-up cloaking themselves
[01:01] <lilo> Kamion: the faq section on cloaking describes what you guys can do
[01:01] <Mez> s/did/didn\'t/
[01:01] <sabdfl> Mez: nah. that was a moment of weakness on your folks' part :-)
[01:01] <lilo> Kamion: basically, you can acknowledge whoever you consider to be a participant, and label them generically, or according to their role
[01:01] <Kamion> lilo: yeah, I read that, it was woolly :-)
[01:01] <\sh> lilo: sorry, i only ask, cause the other irc networks are running quite diff. ircds ;)
[01:02] <Mez> sabdfl, I mean this community ;) :P
[01:02] <mdke> hah
[01:02] <sabdfl> lilo: if you can commit that individual members will still have control, then we can ask the community council how they feel about publishing the list to freenode like that
[01:02] <lilo> Kamion: you can cloak foo as foo.member.ubuntu or as foo.ubuntu
[01:02] <lilo> sabdfl: individual freenode participants can always accept or reject a cloak; it's offered, not required
[01:02] <Kamion> lilo: right, but some of our project members won't want to be cloaked, even though we would wish to acknowledge them as project members
[01:03] <lilo> sabdfl: you provide us with the list, and the user accepts or rejects
[01:03] <Kamion> ok
[01:03] <lilo> usually we add cloak and then ask, because in most cases the user already knows they're getting a cloak
[01:03] <mako> sounds fine
[01:03] <lilo> in the case of ubuntu, though, we can ask first, then cloak
[01:03] <Seveas> sounds ok to me
[01:03] <\sh> lilo: how do u add cloaks? on host basis or ip or network?
[01:03] <lilo> it's your preference
[01:03] <lilo> \sh: by registered nick
[01:04] <\sh> lilo: or is it just like nickserv?
[01:04] <lilo> \sh: so the user should register, and then we add the cloak
[01:04] <lilo> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup describes the canonical (no pun intended) nick setup
[01:04] <lilo> it's a bit elaborate, which is another thing we're working on fixing in the long term 8)
[01:04] <lilo> \sh: it's done through nickserv *nod*
[01:04] <\sh> so \sh could be \sh!~sh@somewhere @ ubuntu_cloack
[01:05] <Seveas> \sh, yes
[01:05] <\sh> but \sh_away is not covered
[01:05] <lilo> generally you'd be something like sh.somethingorother.ubuntu
[01:05] <Seveas> it is
[01:05] <mdke> you can link the nicks
[01:05] <lilo> any linked nicks are covered
[01:05] <sabdfl> lilo: we would feed you a list of nick's, right?
[01:05] <lilo> the first token is unique per-user, per-project and you can use name, userid, forum id, master nick, committer id, etc.
[01:05] <lilo> whatever you guys want to pick
[01:06] <lilo> sabdfl: a list of nicks and any needed cloak detail
[01:06] <lilo> (foo.member.ubuntu, foo.staff.ubuntu, etc.)
[01:06] <lilo> you guys design the hierarchy
[01:06] <sabdfl> lilo: hmm... cloak detail would be hard to provide from our membership list
[01:06] <lilo> as long as it meets the general requirements
[01:06] <sabdfl> oh, right
[01:06] <sabdfl> ok
[01:06] <lilo> sabdfl: it's your choice whether to provide it
[01:06] <Mez> sabdfl, dont you ahve differnt groups for members/maintainers?
[01:06] <sabdfl> ok, let's ask the CC if they want to proceed with this, and then we can work out the details
[01:07] <sabdfl> Mez: yes, we do
[01:07] <Seveas> +1 from me
[01:07] <lilo> another benefit of group registration is that we can reserve your channel name space
[01:07] <\sh> -1 from me
[01:07] <sabdfl> developers, members (should be a superset, but it's not enforced), translators...
[01:07] <Mez> then you can use that or just have everyone as nick.ubuntu
[01:07] <lilo> we'd reserve #ubuntu-* and #canonical-* probably
[01:07] <Mez> lilo - what about #kubuntu-*
[01:07] <sabdfl> mako, Kamion?
[01:07] <mdz> lilo: probably?  are there standards for this?
[01:07] <terrex> hi friends
[01:07] <lilo> we have to defer to trademarks and we also defer to clear community-based name ownership
[01:07] <Seveas> lilo, what about channels that are registered already?
[01:07] <mako> sabdfl: sounds totally fine to me
[01:07] <terrex> im late for the meeting sorry
[01:07] <terrex> xd
[01:08] <sabdfl> terrex: np, you're up next
[01:08] <Kamion> sabdfl: just waiting for this namespacing discussion to finish
[01:08] <lilo> mdz: we do what's intuitive based on, again, trademark or clear community title
[01:08] <mdz> lilo: what level of control is granted for channels which are reserved, and to whom?
[01:08] <\sh> I mean, chanserv and nickserv are enough for many of us who r working on more projects
[01:08] <lilo> mdz: we get with you to disambiguate if there's a conflict
[01:08] <lilo> mdz: in the case of ubuntu, there would be a sponsoring organization, if I understand the relationship correctly, and that would be canonical
[01:08] <terrex> i want to became a comunity member
[01:09] <Seveas> terrex, you'll be up next, please wait your turn
[01:09] <sabdfl> \sh i think this would just be a nice way to show your affiliation with a project, and as long as lilo says the user has totaly control no matter what a project says about them (something i assume they need just for basic sanity anyhow) it's fine by me
[01:09] <terrex> ok sorry.
[01:09] <lilo> so we would need someone at canonical with the authority to create a relationship with PDPC to submit an 'approving' entry
[01:09] <mdz> lilo: sponsoring in what sense?  representation, or financial support?
[01:09] <Kamion> lilo: I think the question would be, how much bureaucracy would one of us have to wade through if we wanted to create a temporary channel in our namespace quickly?
[01:09] <lilo> Kamion: initially you just create it, and let us know if there's a conflict with a non-ubuntu "old-style" chanserv owner
[01:09] <lilo> Kamion: we talk to them for you and fix it
[01:10] <Kamion> sounds a bit WIPOish ;-)
[01:10] <Seveas> lilo, so creating #ubuntu-foobar temporarily is no big deal?
[01:10] <lilo> Kamion: when freenode-registry goes in, the approving contact can delegate both the control and the operation of some or all channels, and there will be a default feature
[01:10] <lilo> Seveas: none at all, and less once we get to the next generation server :)
[01:10] <lilo> Seveas: right now we intervene gently and manually if there's a problem, we point to the policy, and so on
[01:11] <lilo> Seveas: eventually you'll have direct control
[01:11] <Kamion> ok, we have a large enough collection of people who might want to do such things that I think locking it down technologically would probably be overengineering
[01:11] <mako> alright.. i'm going to need to dispear soon
[01:11] <mako> they'reabout to kick people out
[01:11] <Seveas> sounds like a lot of occasional manual labor
[01:11] <Mez> lol
[01:11] <\sh> sabdfl: it's my opinion...i'm working on more projects then ubuntu..(not distro related) so I don't like the idea, actually, I'm a man of the folk not a "see, i have a ubuntu dev/member/god"...
[01:11] <lilo> Kamion: well, you can decide how to delegate it once the services replacement appears on the scene
[01:11] <lilo> you as a project
[01:11] <Seveas> mako, stand your ground! :)
[01:11] <sabdfl> \sh: that's why i think it's essential you're able to override this
[01:11] <mdz> \sh: as I understand it, that's your decision
[01:11] <sabdfl> otherwise ANY project will claim linus as a member :-)
[01:11] <lilo> no one has to accept a cloak
[01:12] <seth_k> mako, go war driving :P
[01:12] <lilo> it's always the decision of the person to whom it's offered
[01:12] <\sh> sabdfl: if it's not forced, u have my vote, if it's forced, remove my nick from the list
[01:12] <sabdfl> mako: thanks for making it! safe travels up to HEL, see you there friday
[01:12] <lilo> we do ask that you let us hyphenate onto the first token an indication if you're a pdpc donor, so we can acknowledge those donors
[01:12] <lilo> and then we ask the receipient of the cloak if that's okay, too :)
[01:12] <lilo> some accept, some don't
[01:12] <Kamion> lilo: first token of ...?
[01:13] <mdz> mako: safe travels, and see you soon
[01:13] <lilo> for example, kamion.member.ubuntu might become kamion-sustaining-pdpc.member.ubuntu
[01:13] <mdz> mako: I've some fine bourbon to share in HEL
[01:13] <lilo> again, optional
[01:13] <\sh> sabdfl: but, if the cloak gives me more security against kiddy flooding or ddos then: 100% ++ from me
[01:13] <lilo> \sh: it gives you some security
[01:13] <\sh> lilo: we know the truth ;)
[01:13] <lilo> \sh: there are race conditions and ways to get past it, but it definitely gives you casual security and eventual changes will make it pretty solid
[01:13] <sabdfl> ok, let's take it to a decision
[01:14] <Kamion> ok, since it sounds like post-group-registration things remain approximately business as usual for us unless we choose otherwise on an individual basis, I don't have an issue with acknowledging the network's support
[01:14] <Mez> basically... this is just saying if you want it, youcan, if you dont you dont, but this is to say whether it should be available or not
[01:14] <lilo> \sh: we have a prototype of ahighly secure cloak, but it's not scalable
[01:14] <lilo> \sh: we know how to do it, but it's not yet usable
[01:14] <sabdfl>  + 1 from me to explore it further OOB, and try it out
[01:14] <Kamion> (which is a long way of saying "+1 as long as we keep thinking about it")
[01:14] <Seveas> +1 from me too
[01:14] <sabdfl> we can pull back if there's crack :-)
[01:14] <ogra> +
[01:14] <sabdfl> ok, and mako said he had no prob
[01:14] <\sh> lilo: r u providing this security features to ircnet as well? or r u in contact with those admins?
[01:14] <Seveas> sabdfl, shall I write a spec about this for the next CC?
[01:14] <sabdfl> Seveas: that would be very cool
[01:14] <lilo> \sh: every irc server code tree is a bit different
[01:15] <Seveas> sabdfl, consider it done
[01:15] <lilo> \sh: just about any network can do something similar if they so choose
[01:15] <\sh> lilo: yes :) I mean those features can be backported ;)
[01:15] <sabdfl> Seveas: we can ask ubuntu members to register their freenode nick in LP, and automatically send that text list to a freenode url
[01:15] <Kamion> lilo: (for the avoidance of confusion, the vote's formally among the four council members, although others certainly get to have a say ...)
[01:15] <sabdfl> see if you can work out the details with lilo
[01:15] <Seveas> sabdfl, ack
[01:15] <lilo> let me wrap up my end of it
[01:15] <\sh> lilo: we r all coming from ircd ,-)
[01:15] <lilo> we would need an approving group contact form from canonical, and we would phone the approving contact to verify
[01:16] <sabdfl> lilo: email me that form, mark@ubuntu.com
[01:16] <mdz> lilo: that's no problem if the council approves
[01:16] <lilo> if you want a different day-to-day contact, we recommend several, and they need to submit the forms as 'approved' type
[01:16] <Kamion> does this mean the council gets to assign action items to sabdfl? ;-)
[01:16] <lilo> then we verify them and check with the approving contact
[01:16] <bddebian> heh
[01:16] <lilo> you tell us what authority they have
[01:16] <lilo> then it's set up and several freenode staffers can take care of any cloaking requests or changes, or any channel record update requests
[01:16] <sabdfl> Kamion: assign away, but not necessarily with boundless optimism :-)
[01:17] <lilo> the url's provided above give you quite a bit of info
[01:17] <sabdfl> ok, let's see if we can make this work
[01:17] <Kamion> sabdfl: worth a try
[01:17] <sabdfl> do we have a list of our current OPS?
[01:17] <lilo> again, sorry to rush, and I really appreciate your putting us on the agenda
[01:17] <\sh> lilo: can I poke u with some questions after this meeting?
[01:17] <Seveas> sabdfl, OPS as in IRC operators?
[01:17] <sabdfl> lilo: np, thanks for coming by, and we'll give this a whirl
[01:17] <Kamion> are our current approved ops actually ops? :-P
[01:17] <sabdfl> Seveas: yes
[01:17] <Kamion> Seveas: channel operators
[01:17] <Seveas> sabdfl, /msg chanservaccess #ubuntu list
[01:17] <Seveas> sabdfl, /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list
[01:18] <lilo> sabdfl: fantastic... please use the 'squeaky wheel' procedure as outlined in the faq to make sure we take care you quickly
[01:18] <sabdfl> Seveas: we also have an approved list, and i suspect most of them are not yet activated
[01:18] <Kamion> that list does not correspond to what's previously been agreed
[01:18] <Seveas> sabdfl, ah
[01:18] <sabdfl> cheers lilo
[01:18] <sabdfl> ok
[01:18] <sabdfl> thanks Seveas, will be interesting to see where that goes
[01:19] <sabdfl> next, terrex?
[01:19] <Kamion> jdub can create new operators; Keybuk/fabbione/lamont may be able to as well
[01:19] <terrex> hi
[01:19] <Seveas> terrex, give us the 3-line description please :)
[01:19] <terrex> I'm using ubuntu since a half of a year; and linux 3 years ago. I send several bugs to ubuntu and gnome, and i've been joining some #ubuntu channels. At now i want to help with translate it to Spanish.
[01:19] <Seveas> terrex, are you in contact with the spanish team already?
[01:20] <Kamion> can applicants please state their real name? thanks
[01:20] <terrex> no, i arent
[01:20] <ogra> Kamion++
[01:20] <Seveas> terrex, please contact them
[01:20] <seth_k> Kamion: terrex = GuillermoGutirrezHerrera
[01:20] <Seveas> terrex, is Jorge Daza
[01:20] <Seveas> hmm ol
[01:20] <terrex> launchpad doesnt accept my gpg
[01:20] <Seveas> i'm behind on the list :)
[01:20] <Kamion> seth_k: thanks
[01:21] <Mez> terrex - shove it on a hey server :D
[01:21] <Mez> terrex - cool name
[01:21] <terrex> it is.
[01:21] <terrex> jeje thx
[01:21] <mdke> terrex, file a bug maybe
[01:21] <Seveas> terrex, what have you been doing for Ubuntu so far?
[01:21] <Kamion> terrex: you can certainly go ahead and start helping out; that would be good evidence of contribution towards membership
[01:21] <terrex> i send the coc signed to benjamin
[01:22] <terrex> i distributed 8 copies of it for my friends
[01:23] <terrex> and they are using it hapily, st with my help
[01:23] <Mez> terrex - have you contributed on the forums, via IRC, or the mailing lists?
[01:23] <terrex> yes, sending bugs
[01:23] <Mez> have you filed bugs? packaged anything?
[01:23] <ogra> fixed bugs, made artwork etc...
[01:23] <Kamion> I would like to see more evidence of contribution; links to bugs filed would be useful, as would follow-through on things like translation work
[01:24] <terrex> no only filed bugs
[01:24] <ogra> terrex, we will need a list of stuff you did ...
[01:24] <Seveas> terrex, membership primarily is a sign of recognition of past and current contribution for Ubuntu, so I would say: contact the spanish Ubuntu team, help them out and et them vouch for you in a few weeks for your membership
[01:24] <Kamion> it sounds like terrex is working along the right lines, but just needs to keep at it :-)
[01:24] <\sh> terrex: You didn't get your wife to use linux, why not?
[01:24] <sabdfl> terrex: you're on the right track, and will likely be accepted as a member, but it will require some consistent constribution over time
[01:24] <terrex> im single \sh 
[01:25] <seth_k> \sh, that's Jorge you're talking about
[01:25] <Kamion> \sh: you seem to be in a somewhat confrontational mood tonight ...
[01:25] <Seveas> \sh, terrex != Jorge
[01:25] <seth_k> \sh, this is Guillermo
[01:25] <\sh> argl
[01:25] <\sh> sorry
[01:25] <terrex> im Guillermo
[01:25] <terrex> yes
[01:25] <\sh> Kamion: no :) 
[01:25] <Seveas> was JorgeDaza skipped..?
[01:25] <\sh> terrex: forget it :)
[01:25] <terrex> doesnt matter
[01:25] <\sh> Kamion: and no confrontational mood :) 
[01:26] <sabdfl> ok, terrex: thanks for coming tonight, i know it's late in spain! can you keep going, build your wiki page with links to the bugs you file or comment on, etc, till you've made a strong impact on the community?
[01:26] <sabdfl> then come back for membership?
[01:26] <Mez>  Jorge isnt here Seveas
[01:26] <sabdfl> it does take time
[01:26] <sabdfl> bddebian: around?
[01:26] <bddebian> Of course
[01:26] <sabdfl> you're up
[01:26] <terrex> yes here is 01.25 AM
[01:27] <terrex> ok, i will
[01:27] <sabdfl> terrex: thanks!
[01:27] <bddebian> First off, let me say that I am not expecting membership at this point.  I'm still looking for a place I can help out more effectively.
[01:27] <bddebian> Oh, Barry deFreese btw
[01:27] <sabdfl> bddebian: you're not much older than me :-)
[01:27] <bddebian> Heh
[01:27] <ogra> bddebian, but you are already quite entertaining in -motu :)
[01:27] <\sh> sabdfl: u r 35?
[01:28] <ogra> \sh, younger ;)
[01:28] <sabdfl> 31, for a little while longer
[01:28] <bddebian> ogra: Well that's good but I'd like to help too. ;-)
[01:28] <sabdfl> bddebian: we'd love to have you on board in whatever capacity floats your boat
[01:28] <bddebian> I have been trying to package FreePascal, I've been through the Cxx transitions list, the bug list about 4 times
[01:28] <terrex> ok friends, i'm going to bed, to the next meeting!
[01:28] <mdz> FLeiXiuS: welcome from the old stomping ground of MD ;-)
[01:28] <bddebian> Gn terrex 
[01:28] <Seveas> good night terrex 
[01:29] <ogra> 1/2+ from me for bddebian for entertainement and motivation in the cannel 
[01:29] <sabdfl> bddebian: the WHOLE bug list?
[01:29] <Seveas> ogra, any contributions yet?
[01:29] <\sh> bddebian is a great add ... he likes working and poking around ,-)
[01:29] <bddebian> I will probably jump on the NuN list now that I know about it
[01:29] <bddebian> sabdfl: Yes
[01:29] <Seveas> bddebian, great :)
[01:29] <ogra> Seveas, a lot of words :)
[01:29] <bddebian> sabdfl: Oh and there are several duplicates
[01:29] <mdz> bddebian: what is the origin of your interest in FreePascal?
[01:29] <Seveas> ogra, that's important too
[01:29] <sabdfl> bddebian: ok, i like your spirit and the MOTU guys appreciate your presence, so i think you're on track
[01:29] <bddebian> mdz: It was on the list :-)
[01:29] <ogra> Seveas, exactly
[01:30] <Seveas> 1/2+ from me too, defering at least 2 weeks seems appropriate
[01:30] <bddebian> I started with xfce4 but was dissuaded
[01:30] <sabdfl> bddebian: find something that's fun and manageable and grow from there
[01:30] <sabdfl> bddebian: anything else?
[01:30] <ogra> bddebian, you should coordinate xfce4 stuff with crimsun...
[01:30] <Seveas> bddebian, oh and change your nick :)
[01:30] <mdz> bddebian: what went wrong with xfce4?  are you interested in the LightweightDesktop feature?
[01:30] <sabdfl> Seveas: dude! open arms!
[01:31] <bddebian> sabdfl: I'm a little stuck too because I am heavily considering an Ubuntu GNU/Hurd distro
[01:31] <bddebian> mdz: The MOM processes docs were confusing me some
[01:31] <bddebian> Seveas: Unfortunately I'm kinda stuck with it.  A friend registered a domain with it and everything :-)
[01:31] <sabdfl> bddebian: i'd love to see a port, but it would likely be a labour of love for years before it got fully supported
[01:32] <bddebian> I expect that
[01:32] <sabdfl> ok
[01:32] <sabdfl> bddebian: well, thank you for coming this evening and keep those MOTU guys laughing ;-)
[01:33] <sabdfl> see you again soon
[01:33] <Seveas> bddebian, I for one am happy to have an enthousiastic person like you on board, you will definietly become a member once contributions are visible
[01:33] <bddebian> Hmm
[01:33] <bddebian> Seveas: Thanks
[01:33] <sabdfl> who's next?
[01:33] <Seveas> seth_k, 
[01:33] <seth_k> I am, I believe
[01:33] <bddebian> I could use a tiny bit of guidance on what to help out on though.
[01:33] <bddebian> Sorry, I'm done :-)
[01:33] <sabdfl> seth_k: around?
[01:33] <seth_k> indeed
[01:33] <Seveas> bddebian, go poke ogra a bit more
[01:33] <sabdfl> bddebian: how about the new artwork team?
[01:33] <Kamion> (Seth Kinast, for the record)
[01:33] <Seveas> become a motu :)
[01:33] <sabdfl> there's lots to be coordinated
[01:33] <sabdfl> a shiny web site to display their work would rock
[01:34] <ogra> bddebian, we'll get you in shape ;)
[01:34] <bddebian> sabdfl: Not really my bag unfortunately
[01:34] <sabdfl> or join the MOTU team if you want to develop code
[01:34] <bddebian> sabdfl: That, I am working on
[01:34] <sabdfl> or help mdke make the wiki rock harder
[01:34] <Kamion> any backports people wish to speak for Seth's contributions there?
[01:34] <sabdfl> seth_k: you're up!
[01:34] <seth_k> Mez is a backports dev; he's sponsored many of my packages
[01:34] <seth_k> I'm a senior at the University of Oklahoma; have been using Ubuntu since the release of Warty and have been running Breezy since the day after Hoary was released (I like pain ;) )
[01:34] <seth_k> I feel that my primary contributions so far have been twofold
[01:34] <lips> bddebian do you have anything more than website in ubuntu gnu/hurd project?
[01:34] <sabdfl> seth_k: masochist
[01:35] <Mez> Kamion- I'll talk for seth on backports... poke me when you need me
[01:35] <seth_k> First, in the area of support: I have nearly 200 posts on the Ubuntu Forums, which are almost exclusively devoted to the areas of Hoary and Breezy support. Additionally, I spend an average of 10 to 12 hours a week on the Ubuntu IRC channels (mainly in #kubuntu), helping users there with their issues.
[01:35] <mdke> sabdfl, bddebian yeah the wiki team is recruiting :)
[01:35] <seth_k> (I'm also fluent in French, and so have had the opportunity to help some of Ubuntu's community in their native language.) I have also joined the NUN group and hope to channel some of my effort to that end.
[01:35] <Kamion> Mez: now's fine
[01:35] <bddebian> lips: I'm not sure I get your question?
[01:35] <Seveas> seth_k, please join the NuN too, the NuN needs people like you
[01:35] <seth_k> Secondly, in packaging and backporting: thanks to Mez and siretart, I've been increasing my work with Ubuntu packages. I've backported over 20 applications from Breezy to Hoary (and various others from Debian unstable to Hoary).
[01:35] <seth_k> Seveas, I am a member of NuN
[01:35] <mdke> gosh
[01:35] <Mez> Seveas - he just did :D
[01:35] <mdke> lots of activity
[01:35] <seth_k> Also, I recently patched and packaged zSNES 1.4.2, a Nintendo SNES emulator, which was accepted by siretart and should be included in Breezy.
[01:35] <seth_k> siretart expressed interest in having me join the MOTUGames team, which is an area in which I feel that I could contribute. KDE is really my first love, though; in the future I'd like to get deeper into KDE development and package some of the smaller KDE applications that as of yet have been overlooked. However, my primary focus remains support, as I feel that it's the biggest hurdle to overcome in making Linux available to the mainstre
[01:35] <FLeiXiuS> mdz: ;-)
[01:36] <seth_k> As far as where I see Ubuntu heading, let me quote from my wikipage: "Rather than being an elite community of hackers, Ubuntu is able to appeal to everyone, thanks to the emphasis on support and community. Bugs are fixable, poor user interfaces forgivable. But without a good community to help and support new users, they will never be able to succeed."
[01:36] <Mez> Seth's done a lot of work for backports
[01:36] <bddebian> How do you "join" the NuN team?  I thought the NewbieGods page was going away?
[01:36] <sabdfl> seth_k: i just sms'd elmo about the backports infrastructure, i think it will be up soon
[01:36] <Mez> in fact a few times we've raced to see who got the package built first
[01:36] <Mez> but seth has a faster machine :D
[01:36] <lips> bddebian i'm trying to follow hurd progress, and i know that they succeeded with running gnome on hurd. so i just want to know how far you are
[01:36] <bddebian> seth_k: Amen to that, hence one of the big reasons I want an Ubuntu based GNU/Hurd :-)
[01:36] <Seveas> bddebian, there is unp as team on launchpad
[01:36] <seth_k> Ubuntu is the ONLY distro I've ever used with such an opportunity to get involved at EVERY level. From community support to the artwork team, there's so little bureaucracy! It's amazing
[01:36] <Kamion> seth_k: any opinions on where how you'd like to see backport/mainstream cooperation going forward?
[01:36] <Seveas> seth_k, wow, lots of enthousiasm there
[01:36] <Kamion> s/where //
[01:36] <bddebian> Seveas: OK, thx
[01:36] <Mez> his packagesa re high quality (backports anywya) and he;s been a great help towards backports (I'm talking to John  to get him on team)
[01:37] <seth_k> siretart would vouch for my zSNES Universe package imo, but he's asleep right now
[01:37] <seth_k> Kamion, I think that "the b-word" are a necessity to make Ubuntu as accessible as it can be
[01:37] <sabdfl> ok, can anybody else chime in on seth_k?
[01:38] <seth_k> however, it's going to require a lot of QA infrastructure that we still don't have in place
[01:38] <sabdfl> seth_k: i'm really excited about the official backports
[01:38] <Mez> seht's also been a gerat help in #kubuntu ;)
[01:38] <ogra> seth_k, just make a MOTUBackports team and use our QA ;)
[01:38] <Seveas> do official backports mean Ubuntu infrastructure?
[01:38] <seth_k> yes
[01:38] <mdke> seth_k sounds like he's done some good stuff. Help on forums and irc is good
[01:38] <Seveas> because backports servers now are down a lot
[01:38] <Kamion> Seveas: (previous meetings)
[01:39] <bddebian> OK, my apologies folks but I have GOT to head home.  Thank you for your time.  And +1 to seth_k  :-)
[01:39] <sabdfl> Seveas: yes
[01:39] <Riddell> seth_k does do lots of support in #kubuntu
[01:39] <sabdfl> bddebian: thanks and good night!
[01:39] <Kamion> Seveas: (not meant as a "shut up", more as a reference :-))
[01:39] <Seveas> :)
[01:39] <Mez> sabdfl, can I talk to you in a bit about how thing are going to go about fgor backports?
[01:39] <mdz> Mez: have you already reviewed the meeting outcome?
[01:39] <mdz> Mez: it's a matter of logistics at this point
[01:39] <Mez> I've seen that it;'s been accepted :D
[01:39] <sabdfl> Mez: i'm out of brownie points with the gf on late nights, and tonight isn't helping, so tomorrow ok?
[01:40] <Mez> fair enough sabdfl (cute gf though - reminds me of my ex)
[01:40] <mdke> we're still waiting for a review of the backports meeting
[01:40] <sabdfl> Mez: we'll try bring it on stream this week, buildd's are ready for it
[01:40] <\sh> lol
[01:40] <mdke> that will help things along
[01:40] <Seveas> +1 on seth_k from me, based on what I hear here
[01:40] <Mez> sweet, well, poke me if you need things :D seeing as I'm the only one who'll be ablke to upload
[01:41] <Mez> +1 for seth from me - for backports and for irc/forums
[01:41] <sabdfl> seth_k: +1 from me on backports work
[01:41] <ogra> +1 (for a still not given up hope on MOTUBackports)
[01:41] <\sh> seth +1 for irc/forums but backports after official announcement...right now, there is more chaos about backports
[01:42] <uniq> +1 for seth_k from what i've seen in #kubuntu. 
[01:42] <Seveas> lol@ogra
[01:42] <Mez> MOTU backports?
[01:42] <\sh> Mez: yes..whynot ;)
[01:42] <ogra> Mez, yes, i'm waiting for itz to form :)
[01:42] <sabdfl> i think we'll be short without mako. kamion?
[01:42] <Mez> ogra - poke me after meeting
[01:42] <Kamion> +1 seth_k; seems articulate, sensible, enthusiastic, has done Stuff
[01:42] <Mez> sabdfl, you have casting vote though :D
[01:43] <seth_k> wow Kamion, heavy adjectives there :P
[01:43] <sabdfl> Mez: don't often use it though
[01:43] <Mez> elmo isnt here either is he?
[01:43] <Seveas> Mez, he has never abused that (apart from ubuntu spatial :))
[01:43] <Kamion> seth_k: you forgot the HEAVY NOUN
[01:43] <sabdfl> in this case, ok +2 from me, so we're over the hump
[01:43] <mdke> yeah love that Stuff
[01:43] <sabdfl> welcome aboart seth_k
[01:43] <sabdfl> all aboart
[01:43] <mdke> good work seth_k 
[01:43] <Kamion> sabdfl: advance warning, I'm beginning to pass out here
[01:43] <sabdfl> Kamion: me too :-/
[01:43] <seth_k> thank you all
[01:43] <Kamion> I hadn't expected to be up until 1 here
[01:44] <ogra> hey seth_k :)
[01:44] <mdke> bed calls for me
[01:44] <Seveas> Next up: marketing efforts
[01:44] <ogra> Kamion, be happy youre not here ;)
[01:44] <bddebian> Gn mdke 
[01:44] <Seveas> or are we deferring that to next time?
[01:44] <kinjoo> Ah that's my point
[01:45] <kinjoo> I'd be glad. It's almost 2 here
[01:45] <Seveas> here too
[01:45] <Seveas> (NL)
[01:45] <kinjoo> (DE)
[01:45] <mdz> \sh: don't expect sympathy :-P
[01:45] <Seveas> sabdfl, Kamion, given that you are passing out and mako and elmo are not here, shall we defer this final item?
[01:45] <sabdfl> is there anyone here who has a strong interest in the marketing topic?
[01:45] <\sh> mdz: hehehe ;)
[01:45] <kinjoo> deferr it, so everyone can get to his gf
[01:46] <sabdfl> ok
[01:46] <\sh> mdz: i'm up for everything :) but this woman is hotter the linux will ever be ;)
[01:46] <sabdfl> deferred!
[01:46] <sabdfl> thanks guys
[01:46] <Seveas> Next meeting: july 20 14:00 UTC
[01:46] <kinjoo> the most important thing about marketing would be coop with other projects
[01:46] <ogra> \sh, tell us againg in a year :-P
[01:46] <sabdfl> \sh: you never saw the images we COULDN'T put into the calendar!
[01:46] <mdke> \sh, surely not
[01:46] <mdz> ogra: you sound like a married man ;-)
[01:46] <sabdfl> night all
[01:46] <nalioth> night
[01:47] <Seveas> 'night everyone
[01:47] <\sh> sabdfl: u have millaJ in there? ,-)
[01:47] <sabdfl> Kamion: thanks very much for sticking with it
[01:47] <mdke> lol @ mdz
[01:47] <ogra> mdz, you know i'm not :)
[01:47] <sabdfl> above and beyond...
[01:47] <mdz> thanks to all for your participation
[01:47] <mdke> night guys
[01:47] <bddebian> Gn sabdfl 
[01:47] <mdz> and good night
[01:47] <kinjoo> night to everyone
[01:47] <nalioth> ogra: notary?
[01:47] <Kamion> sabdfl: ok, glad to defer the rest
[01:47] <Seveas> i'll update the agenda
[01:47] <ogra> nalioth, its outlined somewhere in the wiki
[01:47] <Kamion> night, folks
[01:47] <mdke> nalioth, he is a rock start
[01:47] <Kamion> thanks to everyone for sticking around
[01:47] <Seveas> btw: next meeting is 19 july
[01:47] <Seveas> not 20
[01:48] <ogra> nalioth, you can get a pritout of your key approved at a notary and fax it to mako
[01:48] <nalioth> ogra: ok thx (although i've arranged meetings with a couple of keysigners near me)
[01:48] <ogra> nalioth, its the absolute fallback
[01:48] <nalioth> ogra: if my meeting(s) fall thru, there is the fallback
[01:49] <ogra> nalioth, yeps
[01:49] <Kamion> Seveas: (thanks for topic gardening)
[01:49] <Mez> ogra - wanna talk MOTUBackports?
[01:49] <\sh> *yawn* 
[01:49] <Seveas> Mez, you are MarekSpruell right?
[01:49] <Mez> noooo...
[01:49] <Seveas> hmm
[01:50] <Mez> thats nalioth
[01:50] <seth_k> Mez = MartinMeredith
[01:50] <Seveas> ah
[01:50] <Seveas> stupid me
[01:50] <Mez> dont worry, mako did same thing
[01:50] <Seveas> weeding out the agenda now :)
[01:50] <nalioth> Seveas: i think your browser is spoofing you
[01:52] <Seveas> OK, agenda updated
[01:52] <Mez> Seveas - you trying to be CC Secretary ? :P
[01:53] <Seveas> neh, just saving Mako some work :)
[01:53] <Seveas> half a bottle of beer to go and i'll go to sleep :_
[01:53] <Seveas> :)
[01:58] <nalioth> y'all be good
[01:59] <Seveas> same to you :)
[03:18] <FLeiXiuS> kassetra: <3
[12:19] <fabbione> it's everything inside the tar
[12:20] <fabbione> including the log or build-log
[12:20] <fabbione> i can't remember how i called the file
[12:20] <fabbione> there was no .i iirc.. only .s
[12:24] <terrex> hi
[12:27] <terrex> follows Malone the same numeration of bugs that Bugzilla?
[12:30] <Kamion> terrex: no; but this channel is a poor place to ask