=== mgalvin [~mgalvin@cpe-69-205-46-35.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:21] did you get my last email to the list? [02:22] hey rob, i just saw it [02:22] I took it at face value [02:22] sounds good to me [02:22] no prob [02:23] cool.. [02:23] at least I got people talking about it :) [02:24] yup, that always good :) [02:25] backports is often referred to as crackports, hehe, so it is good that we should be fine without them [02:27] yes === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ealden [~ealden@219.90.94.228] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [~mgalvin@cpe-69-205-46-35.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [~rob@rob-ubuntu.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-doc === unome [~unome@ool-4351863e.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [~daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === unome [~unome@ool-4351863e.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:09] guys, any plans for Ubuntu Bible 2005 Edition or something similar? [05:09] Can't wait for a book, someone gotta do it! [05:10] im sure the some publishers have something being done at the moment [05:10] as for the docteam to do it, we're relatively small to do something like that [05:27] unome: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-June/002572.html [05:27] at least one publishing comapny is working on a Uuntu book according to that email [05:27] oohhh Manning... [05:27] there's also APress [05:28] I'm sure a bunch of them are working, or planning something. Ubuntu is the flavour of the month for Linux, and they smell a market [05:29] but a book is totally beyond the scope of our little group :) [05:32] you never know :D [05:34] you're writing one? :) [05:35] hah i wish i had the time [05:35] just a thought on the faq guide, I'm thinking that telling people where to get libdvdcss2, w32codecs etc is a bad idea [05:35] my current involvement with oracle is hampering my ubuntu contrib [05:35] I dont think Canonical would want us to either [05:35] (im doing stuff in RHEL at the moment) [05:36] rob^, they won't support what is not included in Main for starters [05:36] well I'm going to submit a patch that mentions but doesn't tell people exactly what to do for the faq guide [05:37] unlike whats there now [05:37] rob^, but some applications like kaffeine explicitly say where to get them codecs, but that is very specific for an app [05:37] in the docs for that app? [05:37] just point them at the wiki page :) [05:37] yeah [05:37] in the actual app at the first time you run it [05:38] (the app looks for codecs) [05:38] yeah, logical route is from the book and point them to the wiki [05:38] ok [05:38] (besides the links can change, but published books are frozen) [05:38] yes [05:38] robitaille: great piece, thanks. [05:38] I wonder who is writing that book for Manning [05:39] no idea, although i know who is the one writing for APress [05:39] the only problem is, any book will be outdated in 6 months [05:40] can you say who? [05:40] robitaille: hornbeck [05:42] While these books become outdated fast, they are a good desk reference for users just starting into Linux. They need that type of printer support. Personally I don't see someone like my dad going and finding help about Linux on IRC or a mailing list [05:44] no doubt [05:53] I miss the Ubuntu traffic to find info like this: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/ubuntu-traffic/u20041105_11.html#1 [05:54] it's too bad it's way too much effort to restart these weekly traffic [05:58] heh yeah [05:58] "oh well" === rob^ patch sent [07:03] hold on let me check [07:05] hmmm sean already patched it [07:08] oohh wait it wasnt [07:16] rob^, applied [07:48] cool === robitaille [~daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:58] jsgotangco, one more to fix a few small things.. [08:40] ahhh ok [08:44] rob^, done === froud [~sean@ndn-165-142-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:50] froud, hello [08:50] morning [08:50] how is one of my favorite south africans [08:51] was the global.ent patch attached to the message Patch 3 faq guide applied [08:51] cold [08:51] just woke up [08:51] coffee [08:51] i didnt see any global.ent patch [08:52] hmm [08:52] robert sent through 2 patches [08:52] stupid thunderbird didnt show it [08:53] do you see it now [08:53] i only got 1 patch in my gmail [08:54] can you patch global.ent? [08:54] I see both patches make changes to global.ent [08:55] i only see 1 patch for the faqguide [08:55] that's what i only applied [08:57] they are both in the one xml.diff file [08:57] its how svn diff does it [08:57] rob^: better to make single patches per file [08:58] did you make the diff from trunk? [08:58] whats the diff command for it? [08:58] yes [08:58] do it from each directory? [08:58] no [08:58] cd into the dir [08:58] svn diff foo.xml > foo.xml.diff [08:59] ok np [09:01] rob^: single patches make it easier to remove unwanted changed [09:05] jsgotangco: thanks you applied it [09:07] yes [09:07] hmm jsgotangco did that change libs/global.ent [09:07] doesn't look like it [09:08] svn update ubuntu-docs --non-interactive [09:08] U ubuntu-docs/trunk/generic/faqguide/C/faqguide.xml [09:08] Updated to revision 1376. [09:08] successfully (0) [09:08] nope it didnt [09:08] no global.ent change [09:08] i never applied it to global.ent i didnt notice it was a 2 in 1 patch [09:08] both patches are two in one [09:09] i say we just recommend rob an svn account :) [09:09] so I see that the first patch you applied also did not get updates to global.ent === jsgotangco suck [09:09] jsgotangco: did that yesterday [09:09] copy them to libs/ [09:10] and patch -p0 global.ent faqguide.xml.diff [09:10] and patch -p0 global.ent faqguide.xml.diff2 [09:10] yeah all of mine have been like that :( [09:10] rob^: when your patch is two or more dont use diff ext [09:11] make it txt [09:11] ah ok [09:11] what's the diff [09:11] when we see file with diff ext [09:11] we think one file [09:11] when we see txt we think multiple files [09:11] but in general just do a diff per file [09:12] because it makes it easier to role back on things [09:12] rob^: you are doing great work btw [09:13] thanks, I'm about to submit another one (I'm on a roll today) [09:18] jsgotangco: http://lnix/~froud was updated last night [09:18] as per profile targets from mgalvin we now have three faq guides for kde [09:19] whoa [09:20] naturally since the books are not properly profiled yet, and kde does not really feature much there are problems in the content [09:20] theres so much kde love [09:20] kde is love [09:20] jsgotangco: also note the comments in http://lnix.net/~froud/status/kqg-report.html [09:21] checking [09:21] js you will also find less helpwanted items [09:21] I managed to write a few sects more last night [09:22] froud, just emailed another patch, broken up this time as you suggested === rob^ goes to cook dinner [09:22] enjoy [09:22] rob^: a new one you're ona role dude [09:31] jsgotangco: the power of profiles is strong [09:34] jsgotangco: you see the qg-report [09:35] jsgotangco: if authors learn things about a specific application like the kynaptic story, they can make note of it inline to the document and it will appear in the report [09:35] I think it is a good way of bringing important stuff to author attention [09:35] and it keeps the notes inline to the xml src [09:36] all we need do when we're finished is remove or comment out the authorblurbs === froud goes on school run [09:44] froud, i will revisit the doc later it seems a lot had changed and is very interesting [09:53] jsgotangco: yes, many things will change [09:54] jsgotangco: I want to change the structure so that text is first, then images. what do you think? [09:55] text first is much better IMO, since images tend to distract the attention of the reader [09:56] hence if the eyes see the images first, they tend not to read the text [09:56] because most of the time, the image is self-explanatory as in the case of the kqg [09:56] yes, I also think so. if you look at the kubuntu system settings it works better [09:57] btw the images are there for all kde-systemsettings it means anyone can write the parts marked 'help wanted' [09:57] yeah im going to update my kubuntu later to breezy [10:03] jsgotangco: its a bit broke atm === froud goes to switch machines === froud [~froud@ndn-165-142-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:05] froud, because of X? [10:07] yes [10:07] must take my wife to doctor bll === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sivang [~sivang@box79162.elkhouse.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:57] morning all [10:57] hi jsgotangco ! [11:03] hey! [11:04] jsgotangco, how cool is all the faqguide love? [11:04] has mgalvin got his commit account yet? [11:05] no idea [11:05] well the faqguide thing was done by rob [11:05] (mostly though) [11:05] yeah they are both working on it [11:05] doing some great stuff by the looks of things [11:20] Burgundavia: viruses :-) === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [~rob@rob-ubuntu.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [~user@202.57.71.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:17] mdke: blasts in london? [12:19] (must be G8 related) [12:21] later === mpt [mpt@210-55-36-156.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:20] mdke: are you OK? [02:21] froud, yeah [02:21] OK. Hope nobody u know was caught in this mess [02:22] so far everyone I know is present and correct [02:22] having lived in Israel for 10-years I know how it feels [02:22] its easy days but it looks like we may have been lucky [02:22] at least compared to previous attacks in madrid and so on [02:22] i just hope that there is no more to come [02:23] never lucky when this kind of thing is so cold [02:24] hapy to hear you are OK [02:24] thanks [02:24] no bad luck on my family side [02:25] nobody wa sin London [02:25] good === mpt [mpt@210-55-36-156.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === sladen [paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [~jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === unome [~unome@ool-4351863e.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud [~froud@ndn-165-142-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === _unome [~unome@ool-43518614.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === froud [~sean@ndn-165-142-120.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc === unome [~unome@ool-43518614.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [~mgalvin@cpe-69-205-46-35.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Njal [~neil@dsl-80-43-211-15.access.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:12] lo [06:12] hi all [06:13] mdke, you ok? No where near the events were you? [06:13] hey Njal hey mgalvin [06:13] lo all [06:13] How everyone? [06:13] working [06:14] ah yes, something i really should be doing [06:14] Njal, no i'm good, thanks [06:14] mgalvin, got that svn account yet? [06:14] how are you Njal ? [06:14] Im good, my mate just left a station as it went up so he's a bit shook up but ok. [06:15] that's the important thing [06:15] yeah [06:15] similar experience for a friend of mine [06:15] It really is terrible [06:15] mdke, argh, not yet :-/... glad to hear you guys are ok over there [06:16] yeah [06:17] Um remember i submitted that patch for the command line, within the ubuntu-gnome-userguide? I needs to sound less chatty, i was wondering if there was a web link you had i could look at to make it less so [06:17] um [06:17] sure [06:17] check out our styleguide, it has a number of good links :) [06:17] right now the section on grammar isn't done, but if you refer to one of the links, you'll find some good stuff [06:18] got it [06:18] um i think === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has left #ubuntu-doc ["I'm] [06:27] mdke, i asked elmo yesterday also, he said he would do it in a sec, then i did not hear from him again... he does know about it, but i know he is busy [06:28] yep === Soneras [~chris@p508878BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:47] hi there [06:47] hi Soneras! [06:47] hi [06:47] froud: took a bit longer. joind ubuntu-docs ...pretty quiet place, hehe [06:47] Soneras: we try to get screenshots aligned with release artwork [06:48] but sometimes it is not realistic [06:48] providing that a screen is correct, then the look and feel is a second item [06:48] yes, I see. That's why I ask early. Though that taking some screenshots (which takes time) could already been done by me [06:49] yes, you can do screenshots for german [06:49] say for kubuntu quick guide [06:49] Soneras: you should also meet mdke === mdke waves === Soneras waves back [06:49] he is the one leading i18n [06:50] mdke: Soneras is on kubuntu [06:50] eager to translate [06:50] cool [06:50] he would like to work in svn for now [06:50] but I have to warn you, I'm completely new to translating... [06:50] translation work? [06:50] and then upload to rosetta [06:50] Soneras, our translation won't start yet until we freeze the documents... [06:51] I know, froud told me. [06:51] cool [06:51] mdke: I think it may help if you explain tools [06:51] pot/po etc [06:51] Soneras, you don't like Rosetta? [06:51] froud, ok happy to [06:52] but in rosetta it doesn't need much explanation :D [06:52] oh I would like to work with rosetta [06:52] haven't done this yet, but from what I know it's a simple web frontend [06:52] great [06:52] that's correct [06:53] but as far as i understand theres no kubuntu doc in rosetta yet [06:53] Soneras, we will have our documents in Rosetta so that everyone can work on them using their web browsers [06:53] Soneras, our breezy documentation will go into Rosetta when frozen. Right now there is only hoary documentation [06:54] the best thing is probably to wait until the docs are done. At that stage I will send a lot of emails to mailing lists and LoCoTeams and so on to announce that there is a lot of translation to be done ;) [06:54] you freeze with the rest of Ubuntu, right? When was this again? [06:54] september the 8th [06:55] hmm [06:55] so there's a month for the translation. sounds doable - with a webfrontend more people should be willing to help out [06:56] Soneras, that's right. It doesn't sound like a long time, but translation can continue also after Breezy is released, and the extra translations can go in as updates [06:56] also the documentation will be really good so hopefully people will be interested in translating it :))) [06:57] how will the docs be available anyway? everything will be in a big .deb? and translations will have their own deb, containing everything that has been translated into that language? [06:57] i don't know [06:57] mdke, you work on the whole ubuntu documentation? or 'only' kubuntu? [06:57] i use Ubuntu mainly [06:57] mdke: lang packs [06:58] froud, no chance [06:58] why not? [06:58] last time I asked pitti, he said it would be really hard [06:58] can see why [06:58] i would think that ubuntu-doc-xx would be the way forward, but we can talk to him about it [06:58] yeah [06:59] I dont think people what 250 MB of docs installed in every lang [06:59] i agree :D [06:59] hehe, ok maybe not [06:59] Soneras: for kubuntu we will pack like kde does [07:00] kde l10n will be in a language-pack [07:01] maybe if we get pitti to package them, he can organise it so that the language detector used by the installer will also install the correct language of documentation [07:01] mdke: exactly [07:01] and default to en if != xx [07:01] yeah [07:02] i think he has quite a clever language detector in mind [07:02] i think i will speak to him soon about this, never to early to start planning [07:03] sure === froud goes back to writing [07:06] Soneras, if you have any questions about Rosetta, feel free to ask [07:06] yes, anything kubuntu releated that will be used in breezy already there I can work on? [07:06] oh, and does rosetta include translated screenshots as well? [07:07] 1. yes: kubuntu is in rosetta under breezy, but no documentation yet [07:07] 2. i will have to investigate what to do with screenshots [07:09] I'll wait a bit with that as well, cause I guess I'd be pretty frustrated if I did a lot of screenshots that became outdated ;) [07:10] well there is now an official Ubuntu artwork team [07:10] since this week [07:10] but i presume that artwork will be released late as usual :( [07:11] do they work on the kubuntu part as well? [07:11] not sure [07:11] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtTeam [07:11] that would be worth investigating [07:12] i thought the goal was to have the art work more focused for breezy, i remember reading that some where [07:13] yep [07:13] that doesn't mean they will release it earlier tho ;) [07:14] hmm, from what I can they seem rather Ubuntu specific, guess it won't affect kubuntu very much =) [07:21] kubuntu has good artwork iirc [07:21] they should combine [07:22] Soneras: most of kde art is a kde-log.org [07:22] kde-look.org [07:23] various widgets in kde let you just preview and install artwork from kde-look.org [07:26] yes, KDE has very good artwork. It's just not kubuntu specific. Do you know if there'll be some more in breezy than there was in hoary, froud? [07:26] not that hoary's kubuntu artwork was bad ;) [07:27] Well kde-look.org now has several kubuntu themes and wallpapers [07:27] Soneras: I have something for you to do :-) === Soneras jumps up an down [07:28] You know the Kubuntu Quick Guide [07:28] aye [07:28] Well you may have noticed that [07:28] the screenshot comes first and then the text [07:29] yes [07:31] we want to change the order of that [07:31] text first, screenshot after [07:31] perhaps you can cut and past the text from after screenshots and paste it before the screenshot? [07:31] it would be a great help [07:31] one less thing to do later [07:31] and would get you familiar with the doc [07:32] and the whole system (svn and such) yes, sounds ok to me [07:32] copy, paste. ok :) [07:32] just that document [07:32] I believe you also have a working copy [07:33] I do, but just to be sure I have to do "svn up" correct? [07:33] yes [07:34] I will not work on it more today [07:34] ok, I'll have a look [07:34] so as to keep out of your way [07:35] ah, now I see it's only one big xml - thought it was divided into several pieces. [07:35] no one xml-instance [07:37] wen you have had enough just create a patch [07:40] you want the first paragraph of every section abovve the screenshot? [07:40] yes [07:40] Any text below the image should be above it [07:41] Of ocurse if you feel that a para or note should go below the image then use your discretion [07:44] you already did at least the first ones, didn't you? [07:44] Some of the first ones are done [07:44] and some don't have screenshots [07:44] so not a problem [07:45] ok, last to-be-sure question: [07:45] now there is: [07:45] "KPDF is a KDE PDF viewer based on the xpdf code. Although being based on xpdf code, KPDF has some unique features like continuous mode, presentation support, etc. [07:45] For more information see the KPDF manual." [07:45] shoot :-) [07:45] image above that [07:45] I'd make it: [07:45] "KPDF is a KDE PDF viewer based on the xpdf code. Although being based on xpdf code, KPDF has some unique features like continuous mode, presentation support, etc. [07:45] [07:45] For more information see the KPDF manual." [07:46] Yep [07:46] nice [07:46] k [07:46] there are a number of refs to manuals the way you did it would be good [08:19] froud, how may I send you a patch file? [08:19] I did the change up till utilities and maybe you'd like to check before I continue [08:27] Soneras: send to sean@inwords.co.za for now [08:28] For future you can join ubuntu-docs@lists and send patches there [08:28] accepted your dcc [08:29] Soneras: dcc failed connecting. try again [08:29] froud, ok one sec [08:30] works? otherwise I'll just mail [08:30] send mail it failed [08:30] ok [08:31] I am behind my firewall and I did not open that port [08:31] no problem [08:43] Soneras: cool looks good. why did you not do the login? [08:45] wasn't sure there, will fix it with the later sections [08:45] Soneras: patch applied you can svn up [08:45] oops wait a sec [08:46] what would've happened if I continued to work after the patch and then send you another patch? would tht still work? [08:46] no you would be sending me the first patch again [08:46] = extra [08:46] + extra [08:49] Soneras: Ok now you can svn up [08:49] that should merge the changes [08:49] and then you can svn diff kquickguide.xml > kquickguide.xml.diff next time you are ready [08:50] btw. no need to tar.gz [08:51] good. How / when are you goind to work on kquickguide? I'd like to do this tomorrow in one go, so I wouldn't start again today. [08:51] sure np [08:51] just always svn up before you start work [08:51] and svn up before you make patches [08:53] ah ok =) any more info I need to give when sending you patches via mail (in case you're not in irc) ? [08:56] no, just have fun [08:56] remember the guys here can also help [08:57] is the svn server (downloading data) really slow for you guys? it has been for me for a few days [08:58] just started today, but a lot of my mailing lists and sites i've checked have been slow today [08:58] I'll be idle for the rest of the day, thanks for alle the help getting started. [08:59] jjesse, ok, at least its not just me then, thnx [09:00] Soneras: no, thanks to you [09:00] mgalvin: svn is working stong here [09:01] i just did a fresh install of colony 2, did a fresh checkout from svn, its been downloading data for an hour and its still not done getting everything [09:01] hmmm [09:01] hmm colony of ubuntu [09:01] yea, breezy colony 2 [09:02] sorry yes ubuntu [09:02] svn has many files [09:02] but should co quick enough [09:02] right, its usually really quick for me [09:03] i have a 700+K/s cable connection, it usually flys by [09:05] not a big deal, maybe i'll try getting back on hoary, and see if its better, maybe an issue with the nic driver in the new kernel, it does give me odd error messages when booting about eth0 anyhow [09:19] gotta run, bbl === Soneras [~chris@p508878BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Kopete] === judax [~judax@adsl-70-240-14-52.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:18] deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary-security main restricted [10:18] what is the meaning of restricted [10:21] restricted is non-free stuff that is needed and security supported [10:22] currently the ati and nvidia drivers [10:22] and the eagle modem drivers [10:22] so why this [10:22] deb cdrom:[Kubuntu 5.04 _Hoary Hedgehog_ - Release i386 (20050407)] / hoary main restricted [10:22] the cd contians those drivers [10:22] Ah ha [10:22] yes I remember reading this somewhere [10:25] Burgundavia: cant remember, is hoary-security commented out by default? [10:29]