/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/07/13/#ubuntu-devel.txt

Burgundaviathe non-gnome intergrated stuff tends to be bad12:05
Burgundavialike audacity, nvu and others12:05
thomjdthood: pong, kinda12:05
Burgundaviawasabi, I think the 3 menus is more usuable, because 95% of the time you go to the start menu, you are not looking for hte control panel, and yet there it is12:06
jdthoodthom: Any new thoughts about n-m and resolvconf?12:06
jdthoodthom: I was thinking about network-manager and bind9...12:06
thomjdthood: Diziet (iwj) has been looking at that too12:06
wasabi_Yeah I like the 3 menus.12:06
thomjdthood: will you be at debconf?12:06
jdthoodthom: If n-m uses resolvconf to update resolv.conf then it gets integration with bind9, dnsmasq, pdnsd and nscd for free.12:07
thomnod12:07
jdthoodthom: No, I don't plan to be at debconf.12:07
thomah, shame12:07
=== thom is packing currently, and has about a gazillion things to do :(
jdthoodWhat is needed, though, is for all nameserver addresses to be sent to resolvconf, not just 127.0.0.1.  Those obtained via DHCP should be stored is separate records.12:08
jdthoodProbably.12:08
jdthoodthom: Anyway, I am using n-m now and it is working well!12:09
jdthoodthom: BTW, how does n-m update bind9's configuration?12:11
lamontmdz: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/dpkg12:11
lamontthom: there's also a bug outstanding against bind9 to not force 127.0.0.1 as the resolver when bind9 starts12:12
Burgundaviathat is the ugly bug that bites you with n-m in recovery mode?12:13
lamontBurgundavia: that's the "I'm running a nameserver, but it has a totally diff config than what my resovler needs" bug12:14
lamontspecifically, if you disallow recursion on the nameserver, you probably don't want to point the resolver at it...12:14
thomjdthood: it writes a config file and starts an instance of bind9 with that config12:15
thomlamont: nod12:15
jdthoodthom: Where's the file?12:15
thomjdthood: /var/lib/NetworkManager/NetworkManager-named.conf12:17
jdthoodthom: Was /var/lib chosen over /var/run for some reason?12:18
thomme forgetting the specifics of the FHS for /var at the time?12:18
thom;-)12:18
jdthoodthom: resolvconf writes /var/run/bind/named.options.  This is /etc/bind/named.conf.options with the forwarders statement changed and everything else left alone.12:19
thomright12:19
jdthoodI see that n-m uses its own template at /usr/share/NetworkManager/named.conf.  I am not sure which way is better.12:19
jdthoodthom: In any case, dnsmasq will be a better choice for many people.  It handles dynamic updating of the forwarders list much less clunkily.12:22
jdthoodthom: resolvconf writes dnsmasq's list at /var/run/dnsmasq/resolv.conf.12:23
thomthe issue is really having something that NM can control. at the moment that's really just bind; going forward hopefully more options are available12:23
thomanyhow, must go pack12:23
jdthoodOK, catch you later12:23
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=== maswan sighs, anyone with ops over at #ubuntu wouldn't be available? a couple of rather upsetting people there now.
maswanah, nevermind. thanks ajmitch 12:59
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maeis glade3 dead?01:12
malexI am trying to build a package of mine in a breezy chroot. For some reason the configure fails to find the /usr/include/X11/Intrinsic.h from libxt-dev in this chroot though it finds it fine in a Debian testing or unstable chroots. Neither I or upstream devz can find any differences. Any idea?01:20
malexhttp://scribus.tagancha.org/download/config.log.breezy01:20
malexhttp://scribus.tagancha.org/download/config.log.testing01:20
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malexRiddell: ping01:51
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supertedwill hoary see GNOME 2.10.2 ?03:04
calcbreezy already has 2.11.4 if you want new toys :)03:08
supertedhehe03:09
schweebwhat's the current method for bug reporting?  go to malone exclusively, or cross post?03:20
schweeb(w/ bugzilla)03:20
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wasabijdub, do I ask you to be on planet ubuntu? :)03:30
jdubwasabi: you're an ubuntu member?03:30
jdub(i imagine so!)03:30
wasabiI'd hope so!03:31
wasabiSomehow I can upload to main!03:31
jdubgot an rss url and maybe hackergotchi?03:31
jdubhaha03:31
wasabino hackergotchi...03:31
wasabihttp://www.larvalstage.net/index.php?/feeds/categories/4-ubuntu.rss03:31
jdub'sok, you can appeal for one :)03:31
wasabiI don't actually have a good real picture of any kind.03:31
=== jp has rss and hackergotchi jdub ;)
jphahah03:31
jdubwasabi: http://feedvalidator.org/check.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.larvalstage.net%2Findex.php%3F%2Ffeeds%2Fcategories%2F4-ubuntu.rss03:32
jp:)03:32
jdub^ nothing important03:32
wasabineato page03:32
jdubjp: are you an ubuntu member?03:32
wasabiwhat03:32
jpjdub no, but I was just joking :-P03:32
wasabithat error is stupid.03:32
wasabia postiive integer?03:32
wasabiI see. It shouldn't be included if 0?03:33
jdubguess so03:33
seth_kwasabi: did you know that http://larvalstage.net goes somewhere different than http://www.larvalstage.net ?03:37
lamontwo bissen daniels03:37
lamontyeah, he's plural now.03:37
lamont:-)03:37
wasabidoes it? probably.03:38
wasabioh heh.03:38
bob2lamont: did you ever get ubuntu to like your cell phone?03:38
wasabii left an A on it back in the day for jabber03:38
wasabiwonder if jabber fixed that03:39
lamontbob2: no03:39
lamonthrm... ubuntu seems to be missing slang203:39
lamontbut has lots of stuff build-dep libslang2-de3v03:40
bob2my hardware karma is getting worse03:40
=== lamont wanders off
lamontheh03:41
bob2a second switch just stopped working03:41
=== lamont makes a note to never invite bob2 over to view the computer cluster.
bob2nah, it's not contagious, it only affects things I buy03:41
lamontanyway, short night tonight.03:42
bob2adios, lamont03:42
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jdubwasabi: i've committed, will have to wait on an update from elmo03:49
wasabioh? I have no idea how that stuff works.03:50
wasabiyou having to commit something and wait for elmo seems pretty damned weird though03:50
tsengit needs a manual push to the server03:51
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tsenggiving jdub direct access would make elmo cry03:51
wasabiI was expecting that there was a "login" button.03:51
wasabiTo an "admin" page.03:51
wasabiWhich let you add new feeds.03:51
tsengits a flat file03:52
Amaranthjdub: can nalioth be an op in #ubuntu? he has been a lot of help and seems to fit into a gap in the coverage03:54
Amaranthbtw, is the us mirror having problems?03:54
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mxpxpoddoes anyone here have network-manager working with linux-wlan-ng?05:13
mxpxpodnetwork-manager seems to report my wlan-ng card as a wired network interface05:15
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bob2where was "backports are official" announced?05:23
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rob^was it ever?05:35
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bob2it was on the forums05:49
schweebbob2: ubuntu-devel05:53
schweebthe mailing list05:53
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fabbionemorning05:56
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fabbioneSetting up x-common (1.02) ...06:00
fabbione /usr/bin/X11 still contains files (are they locally installed?)06:00
fabbionePlease examine the following list and either delete these06:00
fabbionefiles, or relocate them to /usr/bin, then reinstall x-common:06:00
fabbione-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-06:00
fabbionewtf is this??06:00
fabbione /usr/bin/X11/cpp-4.006:01
fabbione??????06:01
schweebwhoa06:01
schweebdefinitely haven't gotten that one06:01
fabbione(clean install btw)06:01
infinityfabbione : ...06:02
fabbioneinfinity: fix that crap. kthxbye06:02
fabbioneinfinity: i got that in a buildd chroot06:02
infinityfabbione : /usr/bin/X11 is a directory?06:02
fabbioneclearly cpp-4.0 is not in X11/06:02
infinityfabbione : Or is it a symlink, and I'm a shell crackwhore.06:02
fabbione /usr/bin/X11/X11:06:02
schweebchris@schweeb-x41:/usr/bin/X11$ pwd06:02
schweeb/usr/bin/X1106:02
fabbionels -asl X1106:02
fabbione0 lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 6 Jul  8 03:56 X11 -> ../bin06:02
infinityRight, I'm an idiot.06:03
fabbioneschweeb: pwd is useless in that case06:03
schweebchris@schweeb-x41:/usr/bin/X11$ ls -l cpp*06:03
schweeblrwxrwxrwx  1 root root     7 2005-06-30 19:29 cpp -> cpp-4.006:03
schweeb-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 86192 2005-06-22 09:46 cpp-3.306:03
schweeb-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 85712 2005-07-06 13:09 cpp-3.406:03
schweeb-rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 89784 2005-07-01 22:48 cpp-4.006:03
infinity[ -d ]  is true for symlinks to directories as well as real directories.06:03
infinityFixing now.06:03
schweebfabbione: redundancy is good :)06:03
fabbioneschweeb: usually i don't lie to infinity :)06:03
fabbioneinflicting pain is more fun :P06:04
schweeblol06:04
schweebinfinity sleeps with the fishes?06:04
danielsinfinity: yeah, was planning to harass you about that and get you to upload it for me when I came over06:04
danielsinfinity: even better06:04
=== daniels lurks for a day or two.
rob^has anyone installed daemontools before? which is the recommended approch, the djb format or fhs?06:04
rob^probably better to ask here06:04
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infinityrob^ : I tend to recommend not installing them.06:05
rob^I wanted to have a look at djbdns is all06:06
rob^maybe I might stick to bind06:06
rob^why do they make all the non-standard directories?06:07
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tiglionabbithey guys, I found a predictable way to crash kaffeine06:57
tiglionabbitor is that more of a kubuntu thing?06:57
tiglionabbitanyway, it has an odd behavior of continuing to run after a control-C at terminal.  After that, clicking on certain features will cause it to die06:59
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rob^thanks08:01
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JaneWwhen does debconf5 end?10:18
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jvwJaneW: when it's ready ;)10:27
jvw(17 july)10:27
fabbionehmm the new udev isn't exactly user friendly....10:29
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fabbioneKamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/partman.diff10:34
fabbioneKamion: mind if i upload+10:34
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fabbioneapparently the new udev is more picky about device creations...10:35
fabbionechange is trivial and not intrusive10:35
fabbione(and it fixes the problems i am getting here)10:35
JaneWjvw: hehe, thanks10:36
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dokogood morning10:43
ivoksmorning10:44
Kamionfabbione: how about I just do that upstream now10:46
fabbioneKamion: that works for me, but take into account we need it very fast10:47
fabbioneotherwise part* fails to format the partitions :)10:47
fabbioneKamion: i also uploaded p-a-l 2ubuntu2 to fix the partition size calculation...10:47
fabbioneKamion: and i splitted the patches..10:47
fabbionehttp://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/pal/2_to_2ubuntu1/ <- old patches10:48
fabbionehttp://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/pal/2ubuntu1_to_2ubuntu2/ <- new ones10:48
Kamionfabbione: committed upstream, but go ahead and upload it to Ubuntu, we're branched anyway10:50
fabbioneKamion: ok thanks10:50
fabbionedone...10:51
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fabbionemorning mdz10:53
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mdzfabbione: mroning10:59
mdzmorning10:59
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mdke_morning all11:11
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Ferry|Techedlol Microsoft is using ubuntu in a teched presentation11:17
Ferry|Techedto demonstrate the new scm in visual studio team system11:17
Mezhow did you find that out11:21
Ferry|Techedwell im in the presentation now11:22
Ferry|Techedusing wifi11:22
Mezlol - take pictures :D11:23
Ferry|Techedif all goes well i will get the demo on video11:23
Mezlol11:26
Mezkool11:26
Mez;)11:26
mdke_nice one Ferry|Teched 11:26
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Mezafternoon Scott11:29
Keybukmorning11:30
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mdkesmurfix, reping11:35
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mdzinfinity: did elmo talk with you about the current status of -backports?11:46
mdzlamont,infinity: something about sbuild/wanna-build/etc. being tilde-intolerant11:46
Mezlol11:47
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seb128herzi: around?11:56
herziyo11:57
seb128herzi: should I go with mclasen's update patch for the font capplet?11:58
seb128or you are still both discussing changeS?11:58
smurfixmdke: re11:59
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mdkesmurfix, sorry to disturb, i have a couple of questions11:59
smurfixmdke: shoot12:00
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mdkesmurfix, i've made an ssh key for ubuntu-it and signed it with my gpg key. question 1 is do you need it encrypted with your key too? question 2 is, is it possible for more people than me to use it? we had intended giving access to the website to our web group, access to the wiki to our wiki group, access to the forum to the forum group etc. You think this is gonna be possible?12:01
herziseb128: just go with it, we had some discussions, i will them later12:03
smurfixmdke: You don't need to encrypt public keys, they're public ;-)12:03
smurfixIf somebody else want access too, I need their pubkey12:04
mdkek12:04
smurfixdon't share private ssh keys12:04
mdkesmurfix, k12:04
mdkesmurfix, is there any possibility of giving different people access to different things? or is that too complicated?12:05
smurfixwiki/forum/... access control is usually done through the web, I don't envision people logging in with ssh for that12:05
mdkesmurfix, ok for forum, but for wiki we're hoping to copy files across from the current wiki12:05
mdkeactually ditto for forum database12:05
smurfixthat should be a one-time-only job, right?12:06
mdkeyes12:06
smurfixso just trust people on that day not to step onto each other's feet (or worse)12:06
mdkesmurfix, ok that should be fine12:07
mdkesmurfix, sending key now12:07
mdkesmurfix, oh btw my gpg key is not in the trusted set, is that going to be a problem?12:08
=== smurfix grumbles
smurfixwhat's the fingerprint?12:09
mdkeAF99 4F01 E749 720E 0C3B  1CC7 B526 85D3 0E6B 06FF12:09
=== smurfix waits for the email
mdkehenrik has signed it, but that's all12:10
mdkehe's not trusted yet ;)12:10
smurfixbiglumber.com is your friend ...12:12
Mezmdke, you dont have a pg key in the strong set ?12:12
mdkenot yet12:12
Mezand I thought you had upload!12:12
=== Mez shrugs
mdketo what?12:12
Mezubuntu12:13
TreenaksI'll be in Berlin at the beginning of September.. so if anyone there needs a sig :)12:13
mdkeerm... no12:13
Mezsome people here give the impression they're devs :D12:13
MezI always thought you were a dev already12:13
Mezmdke - where you based?12:13
mdkethat doesn't sound like a complement12:13
mdkelondon12:13
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fabbioneKamion: i think we can start somehow to include p-a-l as part of the install path.. tough that breezy can't install today12:14
mdkesmurfix, got the email?12:14
Mezmdke: if you live in london - just check out biglumber, there's a few people there who'll sign12:14
mdkeMez, yeah i know12:14
Mezmdke: so whats the trouble getting it signed :D12:14
smurfixmdke: no. Where'd you send it to?12:14
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fabbioneKamion: the last version fixes handling of some recipes...12:14
fabbionehi elmo12:14
mdkesmurfix, smurf@smurf.noris.de12:15
fabbioneelmo: concordia is dead again, but i guess you alredy know that12:15
thomelmo: last minute data centre fun? :_12:15
thom)12:15
elmothom: yeah, I figure leaving 2 pallets worth of gear upstairs but outside our area for a week while I'm in debconf might not make me many friends at mnet12:16
thomheh, maybe not12:16
mdkeelmo, if you can find time to do some docteam svn accounts we would love you forever12:16
fabbioneelmo: send them here :) i will give them a lot of love12:16
fabbioneelmo: i can even sing them a goodnight song ;)12:17
smurfixmdke: you got smapfiltered on account of 212.74.114.48 being listed in a bunch of RBLs12:17
smurfixspamfiltered12:17
=== fabbione -> food
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mdkesmurfix, ah shit i'll try again from another account shall i?12:17
smurfixmdke: Now please throw away your SSH key, generate a new one, and send me the *public* part. :-/12:17
smurfixno, I got it, that's not the real problem. ;-)12:18
mdkeeh?12:18
mdkei followed a guide...12:18
=== mdke starts again
smurfixyou need to send the file "id_dsa.pub", not "id_dsa"12:18
mdkeok will start again, thanks12:18
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Kamionfabbione: that's entirely controlled by its priority - just bump that to standard and it'll be used12:21
Kamionfabbione: shall I do that?12:21
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mdkesmurfix, resent12:27
Mezwhat's he mean to resent12:30
mdkehaha12:30
Mezooh12:31
Mezshineh12:31
Mezhttp://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary-backports/12:31
mdkedo we have a summary of the backports meeting yet?12:32
fabbioneKamion: 12392.. do you realize that ppc64-di is created on the base of ppc-di.. same file.. i make no difference12:32
mdkeor any copy of the rules for backports?12:32
Mezwe have a copy of the rules :D12:32
Kamionfabbione: well I'm just looking at the diff12:32
Mezbut not a summary of the meeting12:32
mdkeMez, have you got a url for me?12:33
KamionI'm checking out the source now to look12:33
Mezjust finding it mdke 12:33
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fabbioneKamion: nic-modules:drivers/net/sungem.o12:33
fabbioneit's there and mandatory12:33
Mezhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=4029112:33
Kamionis sungem build for -powerpc64-smp-di?12:33
Kamioner, let's try that again12:33
Mezi's in there under Can I ask for packages to be backported?12:33
Kamionis sungem built in the powerpc64-smp config?12:33
fabbionepowerpc64-smp:CONFIG_SUNGEM=m12:34
fabbioneyes12:34
fabbionelet me check also the build-log12:34
fabbionebut i am sure12:34
fabbioneit's there12:34
mdkeMez, ok thanks, that should probably be on the wiki. Who applies those rules?12:34
fabbione  CC [M]   drivers/net/sungem.o12:35
fabbione  CC [M]   drivers/net/sungem_phy.o12:35
Mezhow do you mean "applies" them12:35
mdkeMez, who ensures they are complied with?12:35
Mezthe BP team .12:35
mdkeok12:36
mdkeis there any interaction with -devel?12:36
Mezmdke :D jsut had a chat with mdzz about this all actually12:36
Mezanything that doesnt auto-backport will have to be fixed upstream (aka in breezy)12:37
Mezso that'll mean wotking with -devel and -motu12:37
mdkesure12:37
mdkeso will you guys use the same mailing list? or carry on using the forum?12:37
Mezthat hasnt been discussed yet12:38
fabbioneKamion: amen.. this is a bug.. a weird one12:39
Kamion* from archive cached: kernel-team@ubuntu.com--2005/kernel-debian--pre1--2.6.11.91--patch-3312:39
Kamion* Applying 85 revisions: .....................12:39
Kamionhmm, this is going to take a while :-/12:39
Kamionyou guys need to cacherev more often12:39
fabbioneKamion: i think it's a bug in kernel-wedge12:40
fabbionebecause the powerpc and powerpc64 shares the same d-i file lists12:40
fabbioneand the driver is definetely built and shipped12:40
fabbione essbee [~sb@nat-pool-brisbane.redhat.com]  has joined #linux-cluster12:40
fabbioneops12:40
fabbionelinux-image-2.6.12-3-powerpc64-smp_2.6.12-3.3_powerpc.deb12:40
fabbione-rw-r--r-- root/root     68297 2005-07-04 18:32:18 ./lib/modules/2.6.12-3-powerpc64-smp/kernel/drivers/net/sungem.ko12:40
fabbione-rw-r--r-- root/root     23887 2005-07-04 18:32:18 ./lib/modules/2.6.12-3-powerpc64-smp/kernel/drivers/net/sungem_phy.ko12:40
fabbioneand it's listed...12:41
fabbionebut it doesn't appear in any udeb12:41
fabbioneKamion: i got it...12:44
fabbionedon't worry..12:44
fabbionei will need to cleanup nic-* and scsi-* asap12:44
Mezhmm12:44
Mezwhat's colin watson's IRC nickname/12:45
fabbioneKamion: apparently kernel-wedge doesn't error anymore if a module is missing12:45
mdkeKamion12:45
TreenaksMez: Kamion 12:45
fabbioneand it creates half empty udebs12:45
=== Treenaks reads -announce
Mezaha :D12:45
fabbioneKamion: i think the same problem is with all the other arches12:45
KamionI thought you ignored those errors12:45
=== Mez nenver remembers that
fabbioneKamion: no.. remember a long time ago that i was ignoring them.. we had this exactly same issue?12:46
fabbioneKamion: i did revert that behaviour so that the kernel would FTBFS if the modules were missing..12:46
tsengthom: does breezy not have the cisco vpn n-m stuffs?12:46
tsengthom: i cant find it12:46
fabbioneKamion: but apparently it has been done in kernel-wedge...12:46
fabbioneKamion: nullifing my checks...12:47
thomtseng: not yet, no12:47
tsengthom: ..there it is12:47
thomoh, you mean vpnc?12:47
fabbioneKamion: ok.. let's do this way.. upload kernel-wedge 2 when you have time12:47
tsengnm-vpn-properties12:47
fabbioneKamion: and i will switch to it and finish the cleanup in one go12:47
thomtseng: there's a tonne missing from that, it won't work12:47
tsengok12:47
Kamionkernel-wedge hasn't changed much, and it *looks* like it should error12:48
Kamionbut ok, I'll work on that12:48
fabbioneKamion: i am 100% sure i am not | true anymore :)12:49
fabbioneKamion: so if kernel-wedge doesn't fail.. i don't as a consequence12:49
Kamionit's all set -e12:50
Kamionweird12:50
fabbionewhat is weird is why it does include the module for ppc and not for ppc6412:51
fabbioneah well.. no12:51
fabbionesorry.. forget the last line12:51
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mdkesmurfix, did you get the mail this time?01:05
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mdkesmurfix, i tried a different account01:05
smurfixmdke: looks slightly more sensible this time ;-)01:06
smurfixmdke: You can now login to ubuntu-it@ubuntu-it.org01:07
mdkesmurfix, ok trying that01:07
mdkesmurfix, sorry for being thick, but its asking for a password. Shouldn't it be asking for the key passphrase?01:09
smurfixif it finds / knows about the private key01:10
smurfixwhere did you store that?01:10
infinitymdz : Yes, I'm on it.01:10
Kamionquickest way to debug that is generally to try with ssh -vvv01:10
mdkesmurfix, ~/.ssh/ubuntu-it_dsa01:10
Kamionare you using ssh -i ~/.ssh/ubuntu-it_dsa ?01:10
mdkeKamion, trying, thanks01:10
Kamionyou can configure that in .ssh/config01:11
Kamionso:01:11
KamionHost ubuntu-it01:11
Kamion        HostName actual.name.of.host01:11
Kamion        IdentityFile ubuntu-it_dsa01:12
mdkeKamion, awesome the -i option worked, will sort config now, thanks a lot!01:12
smurfixthere's no(t much) need for a separate private key however -- I'd just move it to .ssh/id_dsa[.pub] 01:12
mdkesmurfix, sorry for noobness, i can just use mv?01:13
smurfixsure. I assume you don't actually have a .ssh/id_dsa file yet01:14
Kamionactually IdentityFile needs an absolute path, I think01:14
Kamionbut anyway01:14
mdkeKamion, i'll check the docs01:14
smurfixWill you need a mysql database?01:14
mdkesmurfix, yes for the forum i think. I will ask the forum guys01:15
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mdkesmurfix, actually I have an id_dsa but I can scrap it and use the new one01:15
smurfixif you don't actually use it for anything, sure01:16
mdkei use it for logging into a machine on my local network, but i will replace it will the new one01:17
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mdkesmurfix, the other thing was, we'd be interested in finding out what it takes to become an official locoteam01:20
smurfixmdke: commitment, basically. Let me look at your entry01:20
smurfixmdke: thought so ;-) you still don't have a team contact person. Fix it and show up at the next Community Council meeting01:23
mdkeyes we decided on a contact only yesterday01:23
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smurfixmdke: So add a wiki page ;-)01:26
mdkethe wiki page is there, its ItalianTeam01:26
Mezhow do i make a new page in the wiki?01:27
mdkeits linked at LoCoTeamList, should it be linked elsewhere?01:27
mdkeMez, make a link then click on it, then click on "create page"01:27
Mezah :D01:27
mdkeMez, there are some good docs if you click on Help or go to HelpContents01:28
Meznah I just ahvent mad a new one yet :d01:28
MezI've come across the "not found page" loadsa times never noticed the "create this page"01:29
mdke;)01:29
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Mezgodamn this is taking ages01:30
mdkei can help if you like01:30
mdkewassup?01:30
Mezwho would have thought uplaoding acroread would tak ethis long01:30
Mezno ... I'm trying to upload acroread to backports01:31
Mezit's just taking foreVER01:31
Mezwell t would01:31
Mezit's 38 meg01:31
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Mezo_O @ the Ubuntu Foundation thing01:42
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nomedhi all01:48
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nomedin debian there is a file pmount.allow01:49
nomedis there something like that in hoary 01:49
uniqyou can create it yourself.01:49
nomeduniq, i solved now adduser nomed disk01:52
nomedbut is that file still needed in this way01:52
Kamionpmount in Debian comes from Ubuntu01:53
nomedumm... well Error: device /dev/hda3 is not removable01:53
nomedKamion, i know .. but how to pmount not removable devices 01:54
nomedadduser nomed disk ... still not working01:54
Kamionogra: you followed up to ubuntu-users@ rather than sounder@01:56
thomnomed: user support questions in #ubuntu, please01:56
ograKamion, oh, sorry :)01:56
ograi'll regard it next time....01:57
fabbioneKamion: sorry to be repetitive, did you see my message (above) about p-a-l ? can we start to include it for testing?=01:58
fabbione(i didn't see any answer )01:58
nomedthom, ok but  they seems to don't know .. i would just know if pmount.allow file is used by pmount01:58
Kamion11:21 < Kamion> fabbione: that's entirely controlled by its priority - just bump that to standard and it'll be used02:01
Kamion11:21 < Kamion> fabbione: shall I do that?02:01
Kamionfabbione: ^--02:01
fabbioneops02:01
fabbionei missed that .. sorry02:01
fabbioneis an upload enough?02:01
fabbioneor do we need to edit the override?02:02
Kamionno upload needed02:02
fabbioneok..02:02
fabbionei can't edit the overrides02:02
fabbioneso there isn't much of a choise :)02:02
fabbionesure go ahead.. it needs testing02:02
KamionI: Will change priority from optional to standard02:02
Kamiondone02:02
fabbionethanks02:02
fabbioneKamion: last thing.. we should look together 2 minutes to InstallerVolumeManagement specs in regards of the UI02:03
fabbioneyou tell me when you have time....02:03
Kamionsure - I'll have to look at what's there now first02:03
fabbioneeven monday would be fine...02:03
fabbioneah cool02:03
fabbionesure02:03
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Kamionooh, d-i upstream gets raid/lilo fixes02:04
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Kamiondaniels: do you have a fix pending for #12205?02:24
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seb128elmo: gnome-games-extra-data sync please02:25
fabbioneKamion: i am heading to bed.. i am not feeling too good.. sorry.. can you add comments to the specs if you have any?02:28
Kamionsure02:31
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fabbionethanks02:34
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hunger_ /dev/input/mice went missing today.02:41
MezFailed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary-security/restricted/binary-i386/Packages.gz  This HTTP server has broken range support [IP: 82.211.81.151 80] 02:51
Mezbroken range support?02:51
jbaileyhunger_: Current breezy?02:54
hunger_jbailey: Yeap.02:54
=== jbailey checks
hunger_jbailey: I updated udev today, maybe that is the culprit.02:54
jbaileyI did a udev update last night.02:54
hunger_jbailey: Did you reboot?02:55
jbaileyHmm, I have /dev/input/mice here.02:55
jbaileyhunger_: Yes. =)02:55
hunger_jbailey: Damn:-(02:55
chrissturmhunger, do you run the .12 kernel? the udev releasenotes said that it only works well with the .12 kernel02:55
hungerjbailey: I got mouse0 and mouse1, so something is working.02:56
hungerchrissturm: I am on breezy... that has a .12 kernel:-)02:56
jbaileychrissturm: It works best with .12, It should work with everything from .10 on.02:56
hungerchrissturm: 2.6.12-3-686.02:57
jbaileyhunger: Gimme a sec.02:58
jbaileyhunger: Can you hop into /sys/class/input ?02:58
chrissturmhunger, i run breezy with .10 because wep is broken for ipw2100 on .1202:58
jbaileyIs there a directory there called "mice"?02:58
jbaileychrissturm: If the next update of udev is allowed (It might be to allow boot-time speedups) it will require 2.6.1202:59
jbaileyIt's going into Debian this weekend, so we might wind up inheriting it.02:59
hungerjbailey: Yeap. Contains a file called dev with the device numbers.02:59
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jbaileyDid you plug in your mouse after the computer was running, or was it always plugged in?03:00
jbailey(Checking to see if we missed an event, or if coldplugging missed it for you)03:00
hungerjbailey: The touchpad/stick is build into the laptop.03:00
hungerjbailey: And both mouse0 and mouse1 are there. it is just mice that is missing.03:01
jbaileyRight, but I don't know the input layer that well - I don't know if the creation of 'mice' is a separate event, I assume it is.03:01
jbaileyHave you reboooted more than once to see if its a transient problem?03:01
hungerjbailey: Possible... but since sysfs has mice udev should have created it.03:02
hungerjbailey: I booted twice.03:02
jbaileyCool, so it's reproducable. 03:02
torkelchrissturm: fabbione built a new kernel yesterday with ip2x00 fixed. It is not uploaded, but you can fetch it from http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/linux-image-2.6.12-3-686_2.6.12-3.4_i386.deb if you want to try it03:02
Mezfecking great03:02
jbaileyIf you run 'udevstart' as root, does it create it now?03:02
Mezmy paypal account's been locked03:03
jbaileyMez: It's what happens when you ignore the emails that they get telling you to update your account ;P03:03
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hungerjbailey: Yes, that creates it.03:03
Mezjbailey: I updated it, even though i had to update if by fone.03:03
Mezbastards03:03
hungertorkel: Do you happen to know whether that contains the fixes for tpm as well?03:04
chrissturmthanks torkel03:04
Mezsorry for my language03:04
jbaileyhunger: Hmm.  Lemme do a test here.  I suspect there's still just an event that's being missed somewhere.03:04
jbaileyhunger: Will you be online for a bit?03:04
hungerdamn... those static device numbers were so easy to use.03:04
Lathiatassumedly mousedev is actually loaded?03:04
hungerjbailey: Yeap.03:04
hungerLathiat: mousedev and psmouse are loaded (psmouse is in /etc/modules)03:05
LathiatMez: hahahaha03:05
LathiatMez: how mjuch money is in it? ;p03:05
Mez*Shrugs* I've no idea03:05
Lathiatnothing substatial then?03:06
hungerLathiat: it did work till yesterday. I did not change anything (I think:-)03:06
torkelhunger: probably not. It was just a quick build to solve the ipw2x00 problems03:06
hungertorkel: Well, I can always build my own kernel with the fixes I need. If only I weren't so damn lazy:-)03:07
torkelhunger: or you can file a bug and he will probably get to it sooner or later :-)03:08
hungertorkel: I did, I even attached the necessary fix.03:08
Mezdoubtful lathiat.03:08
loolw00t, I wonder whether debootstrap / pbuilder can cross-debootstrap breezy from sid03:08
loolI failed with sid's, and breezy's debootstrap+pbuilder03:08
torkelhunger: then you just have to sit back and wait :-)03:08
lool/usr/bin/apt-get: error while loading shared libraries: libstdc++.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory03:09
hungertorkel: unfortunately that is somewhat big and changes the ABI somewhat. So fabbione said he must test it and might not be able to include it at this time at all.03:09
Lathiathunger: include what?03:09
lool(this was possible for warty, and hoary)03:10
Mezoh my god: the thing says to contact them by email - then it tells you in the autpo-respond to go use a fecking web form! GRR@ PAYPAL03:10
hungerLathiat: The patch I grabbed from the TPM module CVS to fix detection of said chip in thinkpads and some other devices.03:10
Lathiatah03:10
Lathiatwhat is that?03:10
hungerLathiat: Trusted Platform Module. Crypto thingy build into new devices.03:10
Lathiatah03:10
Lathiatwhats it do?03:10
hungerLathiat: The basis for TCPA/Paladium.03:11
Lathiatisnt that that evil stuff?03:11
hungerLathiat: Basically it provides a secure key storage.03:11
hungerLathiat: TPM provides a secure storage for keys... building on that you can do evil stuff.03:11
Lathiathow is it different to a crypto disk?03:12
hungerLathiat: It does not encrypt the disk:-)03:12
Mez What is Error 3018?03:12
Mez If you receive a Error 3018 message when attempting to access your PayPal account, it may have been frozen due to information submitted that is believed to be inaccurate.03:12
MezGRR03:12
Lathiati mean like, if i had a crypted disk and threw my keys on that, how is it different03:12
hungerLathiat: seriously: TPM is more like a smartcard: It stores keys only.03:12
Lathiatand what, you need some kind of passphrase to unlock it?03:12
hungerLathiat: Yeap.03:13
jbaileyhunger: 'kay, I'm firing up my laptop to test this.  It might be that my main system mouse is usb so is seen different.03:13
Lathiatso could i stuck my ssh key in there?03:13
hungerLathiat: And the proper chip... or you can bind the key to a certain configuration (like BIOS version, etc.)03:13
hungerLathiat: You can not get to the keys outside the TPM module... you might transfer them, but they can not exist in a decrypted state outside of the chip.03:14
Lathiathunger: oh so you send data to the tpm module and it decrypts it fo ryou?03:15
Lathiathunger: so it literally is like a smartcard03:15
hungerLathiat: Yes, it can do that. But only small chunks (like other keys) and it does so slowly.03:15
Lathiatright03:15
Lathiatso what the hell is the point of that? :)03:15
hungerLathiat: Smartcard + configuration registers.03:15
Lathiatjust an inbuilt smartcard i guess03:16
hungerLathiat: configuration registers are used to examine the state of the computer (basically hashes of BIOS, bootrecord, etc.).03:16
hungerLathiat: So the bootloader can check that the device wasn't tampered with.... and cause the TPM to check other files like the kernel, etc which in turn could check the modules, ...03:18
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hungerLathiat: The infrastructure is not there with linux yet of course.03:18
Lathiatright03:19
Lathiatso what can you do with it now?03:19
hungerLathiat: Store keys. Nothing a smartcard can't do.03:19
Lathiatright03:19
Lathiatcan i use it with ssh and its smartcard type stuff?03:19
hungerLathiat: Not yet.03:19
Lathiatso basically03:20
Lathiatin theory03:20
Lathiati could authorize this laptop to ssh somewhere03:20
Lathiatif not tampered with03:20
Lathiatif you took the disk, it wouldnt work03:20
hungerLathiat: in theory you could allow this laptop (provided it was not tampered with) to ssh in all other untampered computers in your company.03:21
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hungerLathiat: There is a remote assestation protocol which allows to figure out that a device is untempered with remotely.03:22
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Lathiatah, interesting03:22
Lathiatbah03:22
hungerLathiat: The whole concept is to allow for "secure" distribution of stuff.03:22
Lathiatmjy laptop broke03:22
Lathiati blame network manager03:22
Lathiatis ate my dns03:22
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=== hunger is stupid.
Kamionthe basic idea of TPM is not that bad; it's just a shame that the actual protocols are dreadful designed-by-committee things03:24
hungerKamion: The actuall TPM related stuff is actually rather well thought out.03:24
Kamionthe core specification is hundreds of pages long, and you have to read more multi-hundred-page specifications to get to anything useful03:24
jdthoodLathiat: What's the problem (more precisely)?03:24
Kamionhunger: I've studied all the specifications in a previous life at a crypto company; I respectfully disagree03:25
hungerKamion: No idea how the higher levels of the TSS look like though.03:25
Kamionhunger: I *think* it's sound, but it's so overdesigned that it's very difficult to tell, which is a poor property for a security-critical protocol to possess03:25
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Kamionit could have been much simpler and provided the same level of security with more useful features03:26
Kamion(basic crypto ops)03:26
hungerKamion: I studied them as well and rather liked them. But I am not a security expert, so my oppinion does not count.03:26
hungerKamion: Plus I read the CORBA security service spec, so I might just be used to worse stuff;-)03:26
Kamionquite possibly ...03:27
KamionCORBA was design-by-committee too03:27
Kamionthough I don't know it nearly as well03:28
hungerKamion: Sure... but I think they were afraid of not being allowed to export the chip. So everything that is actually useful had to be moved off-chip.03:28
hungerKamion: CORBA is bad... but its security service is way worse than the rest.03:28
Kamioner I don't see how that applies, they already have plenty of basic crypto ops in there03:28
Kamionand a sufficiency of algorithms. I'm just talking about making the available methods more orthogonal and easier to use without creating barmy container structures and such03:29
hungerKamion: Only for very limited amounts of data and extremly slow.03:29
Kamionsure, but the design means you aren't supposed to use them for bulk ciphering03:29
Kamionso that doesn't matter much03:29
jbaileyhunger: Hmm, I can't reproduce on my laptop here either.03:30
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hungerjbailey: Too bad.03:34
hungerjbailey: How could I debug this?03:35
elmolamont/infinity/pitti: ?03:36
jbaileyhunger: Still thinking on that way.03:36
jbaileys/way/one/03:36
seb128daniels: around?03:40
jbaileyhunger: What's the second mouse on your system?03:41
hungerjbailey: mouse0 is the touchpad, mouse1 the stick thingy IBM insists on having.03:42
Kamionfabbione: oh, I think new upstream kernel-wedge indeed fixes the exit code lossage; it was being lost in the first part of a pipeline, it seems03:46
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jbaileyhunger: Can you check the output "cat /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug" please?03:55
hungerjbailey: the usual /sbin/udevsend03:55
jbaileyhunger: I'm just tracking through to see if there's any chance that the hotplug handler wasn't set when udevstart got called so something might have gotten missed.03:57
jbaileyhunger: I think I'll need to find a way of logging the hotplug events at startup and compare you system to a known working one.03:59
hungerjbailey: udev is not really logging all that much:-(04:04
lamontelmo: sup?04:05
seb128elmo: gdesklets sync please04:06
HWolfseb128, got a bit of time? I thought up an idea, and want to hear how stupid it sounds.04:09
seb128HWolf: sure04:09
infinityelmo : ?04:10
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HWolfseb128, I read that discussion going on about all the applets and the UI discussion that followed from that on gnome-hackers, and that made me wonder if it'd be an idea to ship a sort of bug-buddy like system, but put it in the UI at least during development versions. This would be a button that the user could press if he encountered something that seems awkward to him, in the interface or when something doesn't behave as expected by the use04:12
HWolfr. 04:12
jdubHWolf: the "wtf" button04:13
ograui-bugbuddy ?04:13
HWolfsomething like that04:13
HWolfSomething that's handy every time you get annoyed by something. - press the button, it then asks you to click on the offending program/menu/button, traces it, and allows you to give a comment about why it is annoying, didn't behave as expected, or bugs you.04:14
seb128HWolf: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadIntegration ?04:15
ograyes, sounds like that... 04:15
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HWolfsave for the fact that that handles translation, and bugs. - expand it to allow people to tell us why the interface isn't optimal.04:16
seb128?04:16
seb128how is that different of a bug?04:17
HWolfBecause the user doesn't see it as a bug. They encounter something weird, and next time, just work around it.04:17
HWolfEvery OS has it's little weird things, but the user takes note, and adjusts his behavior.04:18
tsengso if they want to report it, they use the same bug tracker as everyone else04:18
seb128bug != crasher04:18
tsengand attach a screenshot04:19
seb128you can bug about and UI issue04:19
seb128s/and/an/04:19
HWolfI know, but it's an extra hurdle. and for the casual user, he's not interested in 'bug' - he's interested in the annoyance factor, that it doesn't do *exactly* as he likes it.04:20
dokoelmo: please sync python-imaging, linda, java-gcj-compat from unstable04:20
seb128he doesn't know that's a "bug"04:20
seb128he describes an issue04:20
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dokoseb128: when starting the gnome session, then I get the message that the panel was started twice04:21
seb128doko: known, bugged on bugzilla.ubuntu and upstream04:21
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HWolfRight, and while the backend can be identical, you'll have to start it off with "this annoys me" and not "file a bug"04:21
HWolfseb128 ^04:21
seb128that's just a title ...04:22
seb128you want to discuss for hours just for a title?04:22
HWolfNo, I want to go off, and play a game, and go out tonight. :)04:22
seb128I agree that the bug sending stuff should use "send a bug" title if that's what you are arguing04:22
seb128s/should/should not/04:22
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HWolfBut it's not just a title, it's an approach. Make it easier, remove bumps, allow the user to tell you what annoys him rather than file a bug in the traditional sense.04:23
seb128grrrr04:23
seb128you get a window "describe your issue"04:23
seb128what's wrong with that?04:23
HWolfNothing much, but it'd probably be more userfriendly to pop up a window with a radio button list, and start off with "this annoys me" - "this doesn't work" - "this doesn't work as expected" and ask for input/action accordingly.04:26
HWolfThis is the last I'll say of it tho, just think about it.04:26
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TreenaksHWolf: people will lie on that04:27
TreenaksHWolf: and things person A likes, person B will hate04:27
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seb128Treenaks: no need to think about it, what you describe is an UI to send a "bug"04:27
seb128up04:27
seb128s/Treenaks/HWolf04:27
HWolfanyhow, night.04:28
HieronymusTreenaks: how do you mean, they would lie about it?04:28
dokocarlos: oo loc ping04:28
HWolfAnd, Treenaks, lying wouldn't matter, because it'd still serve to tell you about what fires people up, just by the amount of reports.04:29
TreenaksHieronymus: People don't know what they like. They THINK they like one thing, but once they have it they'll say they like the old thing better04:29
HWolfseb128, true, to a certain extent, but I don't see someone filing a bug about the name of the system menu, or it's layout. And if they do, they're powerusers or devels, not john does.04:30
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HieronymusTreenaks: so we should stop them from filing bugs? Makes no sense04:32
carlosdoko, pong04:32
carlosdoko, sorry, I was really busy with some bugs04:32
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=== carlos goes to answer that email before he forgets it....
TreenaksHieronymus: no, we should not ask for a judgement of value04:33
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dokocarlos: thanks04:34
Hieronymusbut we could ask what doesn't work as expected etc.04:34
TreenaksHieronymus: everybody expects different things, that's the point04:34
TreenaksHieronymus: I prefer spatial, you don't. I prefer few options, you prefer KDE04:34
HieronymusI don't prefer kde :)04:34
TreenaksHieronymus: just an example04:35
Hieronymusbut I mean things like a button "close application" in app y, while the rest of ubuntu uses "close", that is not expected04:35
Hieronymusand it's a bug04:35
Treenaksrandom users dont' know that04:36
Hieronymusbut if they *do* they should have something easy in the menu to report it04:37
hungerOutch... up to 5 years support for ubuntu 6.04. That is a *long* time to fix stuff!04:37
Lathiatbags not me04:37
Kamionincentive to make 6.04 really good ;-)04:38
wasabi_Oh geeze.04:39
wasabi_That is a long time.04:40
=== wasabi_ stares at Eclipse
Hieronymusthey'd better test it heavily then04:40
Lathiati hear redhat have some contracts for 10+04:41
Hieronymuswell, Breezy Badger is 'breezy', fresh, so 6.04 should be stable seahorse or something04:41
TreenaksLathiat: I guess you could do that on a per-customer basis04:41
TreenaksHieronymus: Sinkin' Seahorse?04:41
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HieronymusHieronymus: :)04:42
TreenaksHieronymus: talking to yourself again? :P04:42
Treenaksno, 6.04 should just be called "Woody Revisited"04:42
Lathiatno04:43
Lathiatwoody didnt have an option to upgrade04:43
TreenaksLathiat: no?04:43
Lathiatbut i guess essentially04:43
Hieronymus5 years is like longer than Debian04:43
Lathiatyeh but debain is still supporting woody till may 0604:44
Lathiatwhich brings it about on par04:44
Hieronymus2011 :/04:44
ograHieronymus, whats wrong with 5 years of support 04:45
ogra?04:45
Hieronymusnothing, it's just really long04:45
Hieronymusand probably very expensive04:45
Treenaksogra: it's more than 1/3 of his current life ;)04:46
lu|aways/probably// :)04:46
Treenaksogra: even XP hasn't existed for that long04:46
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ograbut it will also gain a lot...04:46
TreenaksHieronymus: large companies love long support04:46
TreenaksHieronymus: as upgrading costs money04:46
TreenaksHieronymus: and needs to be tested thoroughly04:46
HieronymusTreenaks: I know04:47
TreenaksHieronymus: and they can test more often with the intermediate released (that will go on), and then switch when the next "designated release" rolls around04:47
Treenaksso everyone wins :)04:47
ograHieronymus, you wont get at the enterprise level if you dont offer such support cycles, so its good .... we dont use our 6 months release cycles with it... its only gaining us something... :)04:47
ogras/use/loose/04:48
Hieronymusogra: I read the announcement04:48
ograso whats wrong with it, let mark spend his money for it if he likes ;) 04:49
Hieronymusogra: It's an investment04:49
ograand in the end he will get contracts with big companys who pay the foundation :)04:49
Hieronymushe can cash in if/when ubuntu becomes the standard os04:49
diemanheh04:50
diemani need to find out what other .edu's use ubuntu04:50
Treenaksdieman: or make them04:50
diemanheh04:51
ogradieman, www.edubuntu.org ;)04:51
diemanwell, we're more of a good whitepaper in the end :)04:51
Hieronymusogra: why would they? It seems more logical that big companies get support from Canonical and pay them for it, and that Canonical pays the foundation to ensure companies 5 years of support which makes more businesses buy support from Canonical -> more money to the foundation etc etc.04:51
diemanI ment edu as in universities/colleges :)04:51
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TreenaksHieronymus: Canonical is not the only support organisation04:51
TreenaksHieronymus: You could start your own04:51
TreenaksHieronymus: if you wanted04:51
HieronymusTreenaks: but the main support organisation04:51
diemanI am my own ubuntu support organisation. :)04:51
TreenaksHieronymus: for now... they might not be in say, 10 years04:52
diemanalong with a few student workers04:52
Hieronymuswhich helps other organisations (If I understand the website correctly)04:52
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ograHieronymus, but still, the money will flow back...04:52
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diemanogra: edbuntu is cool for turnkey04:53
ogra;)04:53
diemanogra: but in the university environment usually its integration04:53
diemanmaking it painless for solaris/irix/etc users to use it04:53
diemanand integrating with nis/afs/kerberos/etc.04:53
ogradieman, its only our first release, we'll get there ;)04:53
diemanits different goals :)04:53
diemanheh04:54
ograits a far goal04:54
diemanautomating 'site' configuration is hard.04:54
jdubdieman: tried cfengine?04:54
dieman(missed ldap in that list)04:54
diemanjdub: yea04:54
ograthe near goals are to start from a classroom.... conquer the school and in the end support the whole district... over 3 releases04:54
diemani use it for running scripts and doing some file edits and copies.04:54
diemanits grouping engine rocks when used alongside a netgroup map04:55
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ogradieman, so our fourth or fifth release could target the university enterprise level then :)04:56
dieman        debian3xconsole = ( +@debian3 -gibson.cs.umn.edu )04:56
diemanlike that sort of stuff rocks04:56
diemanwell, im not at the 'enterprise' lever.04:56
diemanlevel04:56
ograyou just talked about it04:56
diemanbut still, for curricular labs and the research boxes its all about making it work with existing infrastructure because its usually already there.04:57
diemanahh.04:57
diemanwhen people say 'enterprise' here its talking about peoplesoft. :)04:57
dokofabbione: how far did the last OOo2 build get on sparc?04:57
diemanand the budget stuff04:57
ograuniversity environment is enterprise in my eyes04:57
diemanand payroll04:57
diemanand the central email server04:57
hunger_This damn 2.6.12 kernel is so damn crashy!04:58
fabbionedoko: it was FTBFS but i didn't really dig into it.. want the logs?04:58
ograwhen i say enterprise, i mean 100+ servers and 10000+ workstations....04:58
dokofabbione: yes, for -ubuntu204:58
ograthats what big unis have, dont they ? 04:58
fabbionedoko: in a second..04:58
dokofabbione: no haste04:58
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fabbionedoko: it's people.. usual place05:00
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dokofabbione: k, thanks05:03
jbaileyogra: I'd set enterprise starting at 25 servers and 100 desktops on the small side.05:03
fabbionedoko: thanks to you05:03
ograjbailey, yes, i sometimes tend to small exaggerations ;)05:05
jbaileyogra: Right.05:06
jbaileyogra: Although..  If you're willing to take up sales, you're welcome to take on that market. ;)05:06
ogra*gg*05:06
ograsadly i dont look god with a tie ;)05:07
Mezogra, what do you think of maybe packaging Enemy Territory ?05:07
ograMez, how free is that ?05:07
Mezfree as in free beer05:07
ogra<-- not a gamer at all05:08
MezI think05:08
=== Mez goes and checks what licence it's under
HieronymusMez: free as in beer, yes05:08
Hieronymussource is available but not free05:08
Mezhuh?05:09
MezIt is free ;)05:09
MezET is a full free multiplayer first person shooter game. The game was originally going to be a retail expansion pack for Return To Castle Wolfenstein but the project was cancelled and the good folks at Activision decided to give it to us for free!05:09
Hieronymusthey mean beer05:09
Mez??????05:10
ograno costs...05:10
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ograbut that doesnt rule the distributability05:10
Hieronymusa long, long, time ago, I used to play that game05:10
Mezthey're godamn run files05:11
Hieronymusthere's an EULA included05:11
carlosdoko, mail sent05:12
tsengogra: its not distributable05:12
tsengogra: iirc05:12
ogratseng, i thought so05:12
tsengnot that i would mind a secret .deb installer on some random website outside the US05:13
=== tseng shuts up
ograheh05:14
=== Mez looks around some stuff
dokocarlos: we still do have the 220 pot files. is this a problem?05:17
carlosdoko, Rosetta will not be too user friendly with 220 pot files05:18
carlosdoko, is it a problem to collapse them into one single file?05:18
dokocarlos: I think, it doesn't make sense. it's getting too big. you maybe want to have different people be responsible for one app. I'll look how to split these at the first dir level05:21
carlosdoko, we have a plan to help people to contribute with huge .pot files05:22
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carlosdoko, and we have already .pot files that are bigger than OOo2 one05:22
carlosdoko, https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/products/ddtp-ubuntu/05.10/+translations05:23
elmodoko: linda violates UVF - is it a pre-UVF pending merge where debian took our changes?05:23
carlosdoko, we are not talking about 4-5 .pot files but 220 .pot files, that's too much05:24
dokoelmo: yes, I was too late. debian uploaded on June 2305:24
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dokocarlos: no, toplevel are about 1505:25
carlosdoko, toplevel?05:25
dokocarlos: did you _look_ at the tarball?05:26
carlosdoko, yes, but not all subdirectories... let me check it again05:26
dokocarlos: from that page I can only see, how many are missing, not how much are available. OOo2 currently has 65.00005:27
doko(including the help)05:27
carloshmm05:27
carlosok, then we are handling already 32000 (universe)05:27
dokoat least you should split out helpcontent205:27
carlosI don't know why I thought oo was smaller05:28
carlosdoko, if that's possible, that's ok05:28
carlosdoko, I mean, I don't mind if we have 2 or 4 .pot files05:28
carlosbut 220 ....05:28
carlosit's too much05:28
dokook, but for doing a reasonable split, we have to do some manual work05:29
carlosdoko, so you propose to create one .pot file per toplevel directory?05:30
dokoyep, if you think that these are not too many files05:30
carlosthat's 36 .pot files05:30
dokotoo many?05:31
carlosit's a high number, but we could do some testing to import them and see how Rosetta looks with that amount of .pot files05:31
carlosdoko, isn't it a problem to get the translations back from several .po files using the 36 .po layout?05:32
dokook, let's see if we can reduce these as well. maybe it's a good idea to have a common dir, a helpcontent2 dir and for each of the apps (writer, calc, impress, base, ...) one05:33
dokocarlos: it's not a problem for the 22005:33
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Skahi ppl05:33
carlosdoko, I know, I mean with the 36 file layout we are talking about now05:34
Skaif someone is interested in vector graphics development , i've recently released my framework in c++ (take a look to www.amanith.org)05:34
dokocarlos: I didn't try. but a patch to oo2po and po2oo should be doable05:35
carlosok05:35
carlosdoko, I will play a bit with OO.org2 this weekend 05:35
wasabi_Man I still never received my hoary cds05:42
carloswasabi, did you ask Mako?05:42
wasabi_No. Didn't know I was supposed to05:45
carloswasabi, well, he's on charge of cds distribution05:47
carlosand he's behind the contact email you have at the website05:48
mdkewasabi_, i haven't got em yet, those of us who had warty cds have to wait a bit!05:54
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carlosmdke, there were an error in our order05:58
carlosmdke,but Mako told me that it's fixed now (I had the same problem)05:58
mdke:)05:58
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lamontdpkg: error processing /home/buildd/build-breezy/chroot-breezy/var/cache/apt/archives/gettext_0.14.5-1ubuntu1_hppa.deb (--unpack):06:01
lamont trying to overwrite `/usr/share/info/dir.gz', which is also in package gzip06:01
lamontwhat was the fix for that again, I wonder?06:01
Kamionfabbione: colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/kernel-wedge--ubuntu--0, testing would be good06:05
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bddebianHello06:07
jsgotangcohi06:08
mdkejsgotangco!06:08
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jsgotangcohello06:31
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sivanghi all06:44
=== sivang is waiting for his breezy to dist-upgrade
=== Mez giggles
Mezenjoy the breakage06:50
sivangMez: what brakage are we talking about ? :-)06:50
MezI avent tried it myself, but X breaks a lot :D06:51
Mezapparently06:51
sivangouch06:51
sivangMez: well, all sorts of stuff broke for me, but thinkg "killall gnome-*" cannot fix06:52
sivangs/thinkg/nothing/06:52
Mezlol06:52
Mezor a restart of X06:52
sivangMez: yep06:52
sivangMez: I'm a bit outdated with current stuff and poeple on Ubuntu, may I ask if you're a user/developer/moving from other distro?06:53
sivangMez: (I now have a day job which consumes too much of my time :-)06:53
Mezsivang a bit of all :D06:53
Mezlol06:53
MezI've just bcome a member... on my way to maintainer :D06:53
Mezhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinMeredith06:54
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sivanghey mdz , 'sup?06:55
Mezhey mr Ubuntu CTO :D06:56
Mez:P06:56
sivangMez: strange, mdz usually has some sort of a cable provider hostname, unless he's out of the US06:58
Kamion.fi might be a clue ;-)06:58
sivangMez: (one that is common around his region, adelphia or somethign)06:58
sivangKamion: debconf ?06:58
sivangKamion: Hello to you too , how are you ? ;-)06:59
Mezyeah, mdz said he had to catch a plane when I was speaking to him earlier :D06:59
Mezlol - Kamion - I finally got it to install06:59
Simirahehe06:59
sivangMez: how early was it? (ooo we're getting OT )06:59
Kamionsivang: fine, thanks06:59
KamionMez: good-oh06:59
Mezhad to set my nameservers itself to the upstream ones instead of the local proxy/caching ones07:00
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Mezbtu... it installe07:00
Mezthen I wiped it.07:00
MezI prefer ubuntu :D07:00
wasabi_So if breezy is supported for 5 years.07:05
wasabi_that means, we will have to support 10 releases at a time.07:05
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Kamionnot breezy07:05
wasabi_oh breezy+107:05
wasabi_i see07:05
Kamionand not every release will be supported for 5 years, only selected ones07:05
wasabi_ahh07:05
sivangwasabi_: are you also part of the canonical crew now?  Seeing you talk as in "we will have to.." :-)07:06
wasabi_no.07:06
sivangwasabi_: eh, so that was more of, communal thinking :-)07:07
Kamionthe announcement said that *Ubuntu* would be supporting releases for five years07:07
wasabi_yeah07:07
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Kamionit's not expected that that will be just Canonical07:07
Kamionalthough obviously there'll be considerable involvement from Canonical employees / Foundation employees / whatever07:08
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sivangKamion: right, since things that need to get done sometimes must be attended to by employees, and not rely on cummunity to take care of it07:09
jsgotangcohey sivang07:10
sivanghey jsgotangco , what are you doing here in this fine friday after noon?07:11
jsgotangcooh its already saturday 1:11AM07:11
jsgotangcoheh07:11
jsgotangcomy laptop just died and they gave me a loaner07:13
jsgotangcotook me a while to have things running thoujgh07:13
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{Seb}i've just installed colony 2 on my ibook07:33
{Seb}are all the i386 packages available for PowerPC07:34
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mjg59{Seb}: All of the ones that are tagged as building on ppc07:36
{Seb}great07:37
{Seb}i am correct in saying that AirPort exteme won't work>07:37
mjg59Yes07:37
jsgotangcoyeah07:37
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jsgotangcooh well sleep time good night everyone07:41
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{Seb}btw, the new system tools in breezy are great08:08
{Seb}the GRUB configurator, services manager are great08:08
{Seb}will there be an Xorg configuration programme though?08:09
Hieronymus{Seb}: yeah, cool huh :-)08:09
{Seb}they are really good08:09
{Seb}now those idoits on Linux Format have no reason to slag off Ubuntu08:09
Hieronymuswow, I hadn't seen the services manager yet08:09
Hieronymus{Seb}: that magazine.. it's sort of stupid08:09
Hieronymusbought one once08:09
{Seb}you need the latest breezy updates08:09
Hieronymus{Seb}: I have it, just hadn't *noticed* it yet08:10
{Seb}my mum knowing i like linux got me a subscription ;-)08:10
Hieronymushaha08:10
{Seb}has the nice KISS theory of ubuntu in it08:10
{Seb}just hope they do an Xorg one08:11
HieronymusWOW!08:11
=== Hieronymus is exploring administration
HieronymusDisk is cool :)08:11
Hieronymus*disks08:11
Hieronymusawesome08:11
{Seb}they have certainly been listening to feedback08:12
Hieronymusbut it think My floppy drive (I don't have one) is /dev/hdd08:12
{Seb}and the new places pain in nautilus08:12
HieronymusI haven't noticed anything in nautilus (but I use browser-mode)08:12
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{Seb}oh come on!08:13
{Seb}i use browser mode08:13
{Seb}in the pain down the left hand side08:13
{Seb}the standard setting is now Places rather than Information08:14
{Seb}it works like Mac OS X's Finder08:14
Hieronymus{Seb}: oh, I always set it to info08:15
{Seb}try Places08:15
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netdurpeople, I'm developing something to help ubuntu, but kinda I face problems... can I mail ubuntu-devel?08:15
ograsure, why not ?08:15
netdurgood :)08:16
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sivangogra: hi !08:16
sivangogra: 'sup08:16
sivangogra: you have any clue about bonnobu ui by any chance?08:17
ogranope08:17
ograsorry 08:17
netdursivang, I heard that GNOME poeple moving away bonobo thing!!!08:18
sivangnetdur: that's true. THe intent is to move to use UIManager solely,08:18
sivangnetdur: but until this happens, we have to face apps that were written using other APIs..08:18
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mdkemako, ping?08:48
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Simiraogra: aren't you in HEL?09:02
ograSimira, i'm no DD ;)09:02
Mithrandirogra: so? :-)09:02
ogranext time... currently i'm happy the traveling is done for some weeks :)09:03
ograi was every second weekend away since udu09:03
Simiraogra: neither am I.... ;p09:05
TreenaksSimira: you just tag along ;)09:05
TreenaksI'm not in HEL either09:05
Simirayay! I'm a groupie!09:05
ograhehe09:06
=== Treenaks will be in Berlin 03-09 - 06-09 though
MithrandirTreenaks: why aren't you here? :-)09:06
Treenaksanyone there who needs signing?09:06
SimiraTreenaks: the t-shirts have arrived, and will be out for sale after debconf09:06
TreenaksMithrandir: Budget constraints (i.e. I bought an EOS 350D + a crapload of addons)09:06
TreenaksSimira: coolness09:06
Treenakswoohoo09:11
Treenaksworking networkmanager \o09:11
Treenaks\o/ even09:12
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makomdke: yes09:21
siretartdoes anyone know whats wrong with tdb-dev? bogofilter is tried to be build like crazy, but the build log says, that tdb-dev was not installable09:24
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siretartah, I see: tdb-dev is in universe, but bogofilter is build-depending on it09:26
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SuperLagtseng: how goes it?09:27
tsengSuperLag: good thanks09:27
SuperLaglong time no talk09:27
mdkeah hi mako 09:30
mdkemako, i was thinking, do you think there is any chance of getting http://people.ubuntu.com/~mako/docteam/ going again? we are desperate for a place to host previews and status reports of our work09:31
siretartfiled #12536 about this09:32
tsengmdke: there are some virtual servers available09:33
tsengmdke: i imagine it wouldnt be much trouble to allocate one to docteam09:33
mdketseng, we have been waiting for one, but i understand they are not available yet. This would be a temporary solution before we get a linode server09:35
tsengmdke: i can help you with "temporary"09:36
mdkeone of the kubuntu devs provided some space for the kubuntu docs, but the ubuntu docs don't have any09:36
tsengmdke: just for team use?09:36
mdketseng, yes purely for some html status and preview pages09:36
mdketseng, that would be wonderful09:36
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mdkemako, tseng has set me up :D09:53
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makomdke: killer10:03
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Speedy2Hey all.  I'm seeing a strange problem -- I compiled myself a 2.6.12-2 kernel (from kernel.org), added support for my NIC and that works.  But for some reason, eth0 is no longer brought up on boot.  Any ideas which scripts I should check?10:33
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Speedy2Hot plug has been compiled into the kernel10:38
Speedy2Any ideas?10:42
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sivangSimira: who else is on debconf? :-)11:05
Simirasivang: everyone ;)11:07
sivangSimira: I envy you guys ...how is the weather?11:07
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Simirasivang: warm and nice. Well, not everyone is here, yet. But I'm having a good time, so far.11:08
sivangSimira: you there with tollef?11:08
Simirasivang: yup. 11:09
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subjectdeniedi have a problem with login into gnome11:12
subjectdeniedthe gnome session doesn't start, but instead gives me a dialogbox showing "ihre" (german, should mean "your" in english) an only gives me a terminal11:13
subjectdeniedfrom there i'm able to start gnome by typing "gnome-session" into the terminal11:14
subjectdeniedi'm on breezy11:14
ivokswrong channel11:16
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Speedy2Realizing that many of the devels are busy or may not be here, can someone shed some light on the network bring-up process in Ubuntu?11:23
SimiraSpeedy2: what is the problem? btw, there's a lot of wiki-pages on it.11:24
Speedy2Simira: I compiled my own kernel (2.6.12-2), and added support for my NIC.  However on boot, the interface isn't brought up.  After logging in, if I type "ifup eth0", then all is normal11:24
ivoksok, that's trivial to fix11:24
ivoksjust add "auto eth0" to /etc/network/interfaces11:25
Speedy2ivoks:  Any idea why this occured?11:26
Speedy2ivoks:  And thank you for the suggestion, I'll add it11:26
ivoksSpeedy2: you were playing with netwok-admin11:26
ivoksbut -devel isn't a good place to discuss this11:26
Speedy2ivoks: I didn't make any changes to network-admin11:27
Speedy2ivoks: Ok, where should I discuss?11:27
ivoks#ubuntu11:27
Speedy2(I didn't knowingly make any changes to network-admin)11:27
ivoksthis is development chan11:27
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tsengmako: just got the hhk lite211:32
tsengmako: its pretty awesome, need to adjust a bit11:32
tsengmako: to a few keys11:32
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makotseng: awesome dude :)11:59
makotseng: i am traveling with mine here :)12:00
tsengmako: i knew it was small, but wow12:00
tsengdo you have the one with the arrow keys?12:00
tsengor the pro12:01
lu|awaydo they make a cordless one yet?12:01
tsenglu|away: heh :P12:01
tsengim keeping my cordless mouse12:01
lu|awaywell, seriously, I've got a box that I'd like to shove in a closet with only the monitor cable coming out12:02
lu|awayand a cordless hhk would be *perfect* for it12:02
tsenghm true12:02
tsengthe xfce muine box?12:02
chrissturmhmm automounting stopped working today for me. anyone else seeing this?12:02
lu|awayyeah12:02
lu|awaythough no longer xfce12:02
lu|awayit's mostly pretty stock hoary now, with a simplified panel setup12:03

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