[01:24] <dholbach> good night everybody
[01:25] <jp> night 
[02:00] <syndicate> dholbach: ping
[02:00] <syndicate> bah, he left
[02:00] <syndicate> whiprush: ping
[02:17] <hub> hi
[02:17] <hub> is there a way, as upstream maintainer, to be CC by default on some component in ubuntu bugzilla ?
[02:26] <schweeb> hub: I know you can add yourself to notifies for a certain bug
[02:30] <hub> schweeb: yeah; but I'm thinking about all new bugs for a component I'm upstream
[02:30] <hub> I know you can do that with admin rights in bugzilla
[02:31] <schweeb> hub: ask mdz, probably
[02:35] <ficusplanet> Will the hal patches for cups make it into breezy?
[02:56] <wasabi> Wouldn't a LTSP port to Ubuntu be NEAT?
[02:57] <wasabi> (thin clients boot Ubuntu over the network which autodetects hardware using current liveCD tech)
[02:57] <wasabi> (but then mount remote nfs /)
[02:57] <Kamion> that would be what mdz's currently doing
[02:57] <wasabi> Oh. Really?
[02:58] <wasabi> I'm smrt.
[02:58] <Kamion>       ltsp |       0.43 |        breezy | source
[02:58] <Burgundavia> wasabi, the future versions of LTSP are going to be built on Ubuntu
[02:59] <wasabi> Burgundavia, that's what I mean.
[02:59] <wasabi> Burgundavia, that's slick. One of my current complaints with LTSP was that it was like a little seperatly maintained chroot thingy.
[02:59] <wasabi> But having that itself be Ubuntu is pretty cool.
[03:00] <Kamion> it still has to be a separately-maintained chroot, but it gets easier to maintain
[03:00] <Kamion> ideally, you automate the maintenance
[03:01] <daniels> Kamion: shit man, can I borrow that wand?
[03:01] <lamont> daniels: you're not getting out of xorg work that easily
[03:01] <daniels> damnit!
[03:01] <daniels> i uploaded -35, what more do you want from me?
[03:01] <daniels> blood??
[03:02] <lamont> Kamion: 675,844,096.... I wonder if maybe it's time to reset the i386 images.. 
[03:02] <lamont> or better yet, maybe I should really deploy sladen's hack
[03:02] <lamont> er, code
[03:02] <daniels> -36 is coming as soon as I've fixed symlink.sh to put Xvlib.h and XvMClib.h in the right spots
[03:02] <lamont> daniels: it's rude to upload faster that we can build, you know...
[03:03] <lamont> then again, my buildd is walking through the gcc-* landmine field, should take it most of the day
[03:03] <daniels> lamont: funny, I could've sworn you were on my case all week to upload NOW, DAMNIT :P
[03:03] <Kamion> lamont: i386 images don't need reset, surely?
[03:03] <lamont> daniels: the first time
[03:03] <lamont> Kamion: doh
[03:03] <lamont> only the 64-bit images ever need reset
[03:04] <wasabi> Does LTSP handle session reestablishment?
[03:04] <wasabi> Oh, LTSP is remote X server isn't it.
[03:04] <wasabi> Which doesn't even have that.
[03:04] <wasabi> =(
[03:04] <bob2> xmove.
[03:05] <lamont> help me kamion-kenobi.
[03:05] <lamont> hrm... actually, I can just fetch the tarball myself.
[03:06] <daniels> xmove is the way of the future
[03:06] <wasabi> haha xmome is cool
[03:06] <wasabi> but way to hard to use.
[03:06] <wasabi> And it screws so much up
[03:07] <Kamion> lamont: ?
[03:07] <bob2> it does?
[03:07] <wasabi> You are talking about the little xmove app right? not some new extension or something, right?
[03:07] <daniels> oh my god, I love zsh
[03:07] <lamont> Kamion: nm.. braindead here
[03:07] <lamont> thought something wasn't mirrored, turns out I can't type pathnames in correctly
[03:08] <wasabi> I'd like some sort of cool LTSP roaming thing... where you logged into LTSP desktop, it went out and found current login sessions on terminal servers across the network and dropped you at your current one.
[03:09] <daniels> wasabi: about the little app, yeah
[03:09] <wasabi> Me and a friend are talking a lot abouta  business plan to build and sell thin clients and server setups.
[03:09] <wasabi> So I'm talkative.
[03:11] <daniels> but even zsh can't protect me from stupidity
[03:11] <daniels> it should know that when I type "cvs diff -u 'Add Xvlib.h, change soversion to 1.0.0.'", I mean "cvs ci -m '...'"
[03:11] <bob2> haha
[03:11] <lamont> daniels: at least it didn't involve rm -rf *
[03:11] <daniels> lamont: it prompts me on that :
[03:11] <daniels> :)
[03:12] <daniels> 'dude, are you *sure* you want to remove everything?'
[03:12] <daniels> bob2: shell history is a wonderful thing
[03:12] <bob2> except when I do the same commit 3 times in a row, with no changes between them
[03:14] <daniels> heh
[03:24] <Amaranth> does X work today? :)
[03:25] <Amaranth> haven't updated anything in two weeks, this is going to be fun
[03:25] <daniels> i *think* it works
[03:25] <daniels> no-one's bitched incessantly at me yet
[03:25] <daniels> so I assuem so
[03:26] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/screenshot.png   - I love the new nautilus
[03:26] <lamont> Kamion: any clue what kernel we're putting in the d-i install image for ia64?
[03:27] <Burgundavia> daniels, for -36 you should build a remote terminate button in, so that when people complain about it not working, you can press the big red button
[03:27] <lamont> anyway, time for this one to go home
[03:27] <bob2> wow
[03:27] <bob2> that nautilus looks nice
[03:27] <Amaranth> AndyFitz: hot
[03:27] <daniels> Burgundavia: good plan
[03:27] <tseng> having it in list/tree view
[03:27] <tseng> and have the location bar that the same time seems a bit busy
[03:28] <Burgundavia> http://thunar.xfce.org/wiki/media/ui/suggestion-20050320/shortcuts_buttons.png
[03:28] <Burgundavia> that is what I want
[03:28] <AndyFitz> yeah I don't use the location bar at all by default
[03:28] <Burgundavia> almost there with nautilus
[03:28] <AndyFitz> I just use the go menu
[03:28] <bob2> yeah
[03:28] <tseng> Burgundavia: you can do that
[03:28] <bob2> but it's an imrpvoement
[03:28] <AndyFitz> its there for bling status
[03:28] <Burgundavia> tseng, not in spatial
[03:28] <tseng> Burgundavia: uh, of course not
[03:28] <Amaranth> the new nautilus looks better than thunar
[03:28] <Burgundavia> tseng, that is spatial within the window, but with the places and toolbar
[03:29] <AndyFitz> Amaranth,  agreed.  good that they picked up the ball
[03:29] <tseng> Burgundavia: eh
[03:29] <Amaranth> AndyFitz: So how are the new icons coming along?
[03:29] <tseng> Burgundavia: if im using spatial i dont need all that crap
[03:29] <Burgundavia> tseng, basically similar to the mac os X one
[03:29] <tseng> i guess
[03:29] <tseng> i look at this as a thing for first time users
[03:29] <tseng> not for me.
[03:30] <Burgundavia> that is why I love the thunar stuff
[03:30] <Burgundavia> so clean
[03:30] <tseng> windows converts expect browser behvarior
[03:30] <Burgundavia> not really
[03:30] <tseng> novell usability study says yes really
[03:30] <Burgundavia> have they put that video up yet?
[03:31] <tseng> no, i asked them to do it for mono live
[03:31] <tseng> and anna said, browser mode dudes
[03:31] <AndyFitz> I agree with tseng.  nautilus is feature full enough to give most types of file navigation  ( aside from OSX column view.    
[03:31] <Burgundavia> anyway, I have to run
[03:31] <tseng> k
[03:32] <Burgundavia> but we need a way out of the current spatial swamp
[03:32] <tseng> the only swamp i know of is ubuntu spatial
[03:32] <Burgundavia> that is what I mean
[03:33] <tseng> well it seems pretty non-controversial that we will trade that for this: http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/screenshot.png
[03:33] <tseng> or reasonable facsimilie of
[03:33] <tseng> places + location bars
[03:33] <tseng> on browser
[03:33] <Burgundavia> that isn't bad
[03:33] <Burgundavia> but that with spatial would be nicer, IMHO
[03:34] <tseng> i think alot of people dont "get" spatial
[03:34] <Burgundavia> I think they do
[03:34] <tseng> I do get it, and i see no reason to clutter my windows with that stuff
[03:34] <Burgundavia> this would be single window spatial
[03:34] <Burgundavia> to be clear
[03:34] <Burgundavia> and the window would no resize
[03:34] <Burgundavia> or move
[03:34] <tseng> the who what?
[03:34] <tseng> so just spatial placement
[03:34] <Burgundavia> yes
[03:35] <Burgundavia> sorry
[03:35] <tseng> not navigation
[03:35] <tseng> I see.
[03:35] <tseng> then we are in agreement (i think all windows should be spatial)
[03:35] <Burgundavia> that isn't clear from the thunar screenshot
[03:35] <tseng> in that respect
[03:35] <AndyFitz> if we had sexy transitions as new windows popped up .  maybe spatial would be good.    but the visual noise created by popping those windows up suddenly  with no viaul link to where they came from is irritating and in my opinion  unusable
[03:35] <Burgundavia> well, that makes jdub, you and I that like that
[03:35] <Burgundavia> AndyFitz, we are talking single window now
[03:35] <tseng> seb liked it
[03:36] <Burgundavia> need some hacking
[03:36] <Burgundavia> to do single window spatial placement
[03:36] <Burgundavia> but not much
[03:36] <Burgundavia> you want to fire a message of to the -devel list about it?
[03:37] <tseng> i dont like list view as default still
[03:37] <tseng> andy's setup w/ icon view
[03:37] <Burgundavia> you mean you do like?
[03:37] <AndyFitz> tseng yeah default should be icon view  
[03:37] <tseng> Burgundavia: no
[03:37] <AndyFitz> and no places bar on the side 
[03:37] <Burgundavia> ok
[03:37] <Burgundavia> AndyFitz, the places bar is quite nice
[03:37] <Burgundavia> tseng, ok
[03:38] <Burgundavia> AndyFitz, part of the "where was I yesterday" stuff
[03:38] <Amaranth> here goes the upgrade
[03:38] <AndyFitz> I guess its a preference thing.  I don't use the places often enough to not want to compromse that left space for what I coulg get by going to the go> menu
[03:38] <Burgundavia> anyway, I really have to go now
[03:39] <tseng> Burgundavia: http://tseng.ath.cx/images/Screenshot-1.png like so
[03:41] <AndyFitz> I'm kinda cut that the finder in nautilus doesn't use the 22x22 icons like it should
[03:41] <AndyFitz> it resizes the 24x24 ones  .. grrr
[03:41] <tseng> yeah
[03:42] <tseng> why doesnt it just show the full 24
[03:42] <AndyFitz> I agree.  its a very dickie move
[03:42] <tseng> AndyFitz: i get the same thing if i set nautilus default zoom to 75%
[03:43] <tseng> AndyFitz: resizes :/
[03:43] <Amaranth> it's possible to have an icon theme change the little foot icon on the applications menu, right?
[03:43] <tseng> Amaranth: yes
[03:43] <tseng> er
[03:43] <tseng> the "menu" one, not the "menu bar" one afaik
[03:44] <AndyFitz> amaranth:  want me to send you the pixmap to replace the gnome foot with ?
[03:44] <daniels> infinity: could you please kick libx{fixes,damage,composite} to rebuild?
[03:44] <Amaranth> sure
[03:45] <Amaranth> btw, the show desktop icon is too wide
[03:45] <Amaranth> or something, it's odd
[03:45] <tseng> i disagree
[03:45] <tseng> wide = easier to press
[03:45] <AndyFitz> its a bug.  I don't know how to fix it  ( you are talking about the icon in the applet right ?
[03:45] <Amaranth> it's getting cut off vertically though
[03:45] <tseng> um
[03:45] <Amaranth> yeah, it's not getting resized
[03:45] <Amaranth> let me screenshot
[03:45] <tseng> looks ok on mine afaik
[03:47] <Amaranth> http://dev.realistanew.com/show_desktop.png
[03:47] <AndyFitz> Amaranth,  sent 
[03:47] <Amaranth> if my domain name still works...
[03:48] <AndyFitz> amaranth,  yeh its scaling the icon in a weird way
[03:48] <AndyFitz> I've got 16x16 22x22 24x24  and scalable sizes  for that icon
[03:48] <AndyFitz> but still the applet warps it 
[03:49] <Amaranth> shit
[03:50] <Amaranth> my domain name is registered with an email address that doesn't exist anymore with an street address i don't live at anymore and with a credit card that expired
[03:51] <bob2> call NSI and ask them politely to transfer it to you
[03:51] <bob2> and get google.com while you're at it
[03:51] <Amaranth> haha
[03:53] <Amaranth> these icons don't really go with anything other than human
[04:28] <infinity> daniels : Sure.
[04:29] <daniels> ta
[04:33] <ajf2> whoa
[04:34] <ajf2> IRC on IPv6. Heh.
[04:36] <Lathiat> heh
[04:38] <infinity> daniels : xorg -35's MANIFEST was broken on powerpc (but only powerpc?)
[04:42] <daniels> infinity: yeah, already fixed in -36, which I'm going to punt up if libxevie builds ok
[04:42] <daniels> which it just did
[04:43] <infinity> Mmkay.  xfixes looks okay, the other two are dep-waiting on it, so it'll take a dinstall or two to see them build.
[04:45] <daniels> right
[04:46] <wasabi> uh. ok
[04:46] <wasabi> so my shift key and capslock don't work
[04:46] <wasabi> and ctrl and alt
[04:46] <wasabi> this just happened while closing a program that could have caused it 9vmware0
[04:47] <wasabi> however, one would think that with vmware gone, my keyboard would work again
[04:47] <daniels> awesome
[04:47] <infinity> It remapped it on the way out?
[04:47] <wasabi> because it would be silly for one program to be able to permanently do that.
[04:47] <wasabi> advice/ heh
[04:48] <wasabi> heck.
[04:48] <wasabi> b rb
[04:49] <mxpxpod> ok, with breezy, bitstream vera sans at 9 point font doesn't have much difference between bold and regular
[04:49] <mxpxpod> daniels: is there a reason for that?
[04:49] <daniels> i dunno
[04:49] <mxpxpod> want to see a SS?
[04:49] <daniels> i'm not the fonts guy :)
[04:49] <mxpxpod> who is?
[04:50] <daniels> erm
[04:50] <daniels> good question, actually
[04:50] <daniels> but I really don't have in-depth knowledge of fonts
[04:50] <mxpxpod> heh, nice
[04:51] <mxpxpod> in hoary, it looked fine... breezy, it's strange
[04:52] <daniels> try downgrading libfreetype6
[04:52] <mxpxpod> daniels: to what version?
[04:52] <daniels> um
[04:52] <daniels> hoary's?
[04:53] <schweeb> fonts are a complicated beast
[04:56] <mxpxpod> daniels: http://www.reigndropsfall.net/images/fonts-issue.png
[04:56] <mxpxpod> daniels: wait, let me upload it again
[04:57] <mxpxpod> my connection is being flakey tonight
[04:59] <mxpxpod> daniels: ok, check it now
[04:59] <mxpxpod> schweeb: you too
[05:00] <schweeb> mxpxpod: my solution, fix your dpi and/or don't use fonts smaller than 10 ;)
[05:00] <schweeb> and what are your hinting settings?
[05:01] <schweeb> I'd use best shape... slight hinting
[05:01] <vidz> Is there any way to formally request that eog be removed from ubuntu main and gthumb replace it?
[05:02] <HrdwrBoB> seconded
[05:03] <mxpxpod> schweeb: I've got my dpi at 75... is that bad?
[05:03] <schweeb> that's what I use on my laptop
[05:03] <schweeb> at 1024x768
[05:03] <schweeb> 12"
[05:03] <schweeb> probably want something better at more reasonable resolutions
[05:03] <vidz> eog is the default image preview program for ubuntu and DOESN'T even support printing the picture!
[05:04] <schweeb> something more in the range of 90
[05:05] <Lathiat> vidz: whats better
[05:05] <Lathiat> gthumb wont open a file right up if you open it with it
[05:05] <Lathiat> it opens the directory
[05:05] <mxpxpod> schweeb: yeah, I've got a 12" 1024x768 too...
[05:06] <schweeb> mxpxpod: looks fine for me, albeit I don't  use evo
[05:06] <vidz> Lathiat: yes it will
[05:06] <mxpxpod> schweeb: what size font do you use?
[05:06] <vidz> Lathiat: Thats how I set this computer up
[05:07] <schweeb> 10
[05:07] <schweeb> for everything
[05:07] <schweeb> Bitstream Vera
[05:07] <vidz> Lathiat: Right click on a jpg -> Properties -> Open With -> Add. type gthumb and then it will open all jpgs up. Not the directory
[05:08] <mxpxpod> schweeb: aha! if I set Hinting at medium, bold works fine
[05:08] <mxpxpod> thanks for that tip
[05:09] <schweeb> np
[05:10] <mxpxpod> haha, yahoo mail is messed up tonight
[05:15] <daniels> lamont-away: sorry dude
[05:24] <infinity> daniels : You need to tighten build-deps in xcomp, it looks like.
[05:24] <infinity> daniels : If it requires a specific xdamage...
[05:26] <daniels> thanks
[05:38] <fabbione> morning
[05:38] <fabbione> daniels: + Hardware support for motion compensation (i.e., libI810XvMC) has
[05:38] <fabbione>        disappeared for the time being.  Not that anything used it anyway.
[05:38] <fabbione> meh dude...
[05:38] <fabbione> do you realize that there are a bunch of pkgs using it?
[05:39] <fabbione> but they fail to find it at configure time because of all the changes between xfree86 and xorg?
[05:39] <lamont-away> daniels: feh
[05:39] <fabbione> hey lamont
[05:39] <lamont-away> howdy
[05:40] <fabbione> daniels: iirc almost all the players that can use XvMC are able to recognize the i810 extension.. or at least they try to :)
[05:43] <daniels> fabbione: ah well.  it'll come back soon enough.
[06:06] <jc_c> hello
[06:08] <jc_c> is there any chance that the current sk98lin driver in the kernel would be replaced by the newer skge? That would be a cool thing since sk98lin doesn't support link detection, and therefore may not work peacefully with NetworkManager...
[06:14] <jc_c> oh nevermind, I just noticed that breezy does indeed use skge :p
[06:37] <seth_k> so did anyone ever decide, do we use malone or bugzilla?
[06:46] <lifeless> seth_k: motu is malone
[06:46] <lifeless> main is stull bugzilla
[06:47] <seth_k> gotcha
[06:47] <seth_k> thank you
[06:50] <fabbione> daniels: what's you ETA to complete Xorg split?
[06:51] <daniels> fabbione: completely?
[06:51] <fabbione> daniels: we have tons of pkgs that are FTBFS due to the split and i think the MOTU's will like to know when they can start fixing the B-D
[06:51] <daniels> they can start any time they like?
[06:51] <fabbione> probably some pkgs in main are in the same status
[06:51] <daniels> i'm doing most of the rest of the libs now
[06:52] <fabbione> daniels: most of the FTBFS are due to missing includes and linking libs... so it needs to be done after you have finished with the libs :)
[06:52] <daniels> it's always been that if you add -I/usr/X11R6/include and make sure your includes are <X11/foo.h> or <X11/extensions/foo.h>, then everything will work
[06:52] <daniels> both now and when I'm totally finished
[06:52] <daniels> but, that being said, I hope to be done with most of the libs that everyone uses very soon
[06:52] <fabbione> ok
[06:52] <daniels> i've done about 8 in the last couple of days, and hoping to get through another 5 today
[06:53] <fabbione> than it's worth to wait a couple of days
[06:54] <daniels> probably
[07:05] <Mitario> mornin'
[07:29] <pitti> Morning
[07:40] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:24] <tepsipakki> marilize: hi
[08:24] <tepsipakki> marilize: I asked you about those hoary-cd's
[08:34] <Amaranth> daniels: you're making symlinks back to /usr/X11R6/?
[08:36] <daniels> Amaranth: huh?
[08:36] <Amaranth> daniels: symlinking things to where they used to be in /usr/X11R6/
[08:37] <daniels> Amaranth: not if I can help it
[08:37] <Amaranth> oh ok, i must have misunderstood
[08:37] <marilize> tepsipakki: hi
[08:37] <Amaranth> so the goal is to completely remove /usr/X11R6/
[08:37] <marilize> tepsipakkiL
[08:38] <marilize> tepsipakkie:email address?
[08:39] <Amaranth> daniels: is /usr/bin/X11/ the final destination for X binaries or are they going straight to /usr/bin/?
[08:40] <daniels> Amaranth: straight to /usr/bin; /usr/bin/X11 is a symlink to /usr/bin
[08:40] <daniels> so they'll be accessible via /usr/bin/X11
[08:41] <Amaranth> ah
[08:41] <tepsipakki> marilize: tjaalton@cc.hut.fi
[08:41] <Amaranth> daniels: is there a wiki or something that explains all of this?
[08:41] <Amaranth> the end goal was a 1:1 mapping between modules and distro packages, right?
[08:41] <daniels> Amaranth: 'my head'
[08:41] <daniels> Amaranth: yeah
[08:42] <Amaranth> well, don't leave your house
[08:42] <daniels> ?
[08:42] <Amaranth> your head doesn't accept input after it's been hit by a bus :P
[08:42] <daniels> heh
[08:43] <daniels> crucially, it doesn't output at all
[08:43] <Amaranth> heh
[08:43] <Amaranth> no output is better than garbage output
[08:44] <marilize> tepsipakkie: ok, see it
[08:44] <Amaranth> daniels: is there a wiki that explains what X.org is doing?
[08:44] <Amaranth> daniels: I think you've sent me to it before.
[08:45] <marilize> tepsipakki: do you want to adjust QTY
[08:45] <Amaranth> i mean what they're roadmap is
[08:45] <Amaranth> err, their
[08:45] <tepsipakki> marilize: yes, but don't have them now. You haven't sent them yet?
[08:45] <daniels> Amaranth: http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/ModularizationProposal, IIRC
[08:47] <Amaranth> "You no longer have to build and install the entire tree just to work on one small part of it." <--yay!
[08:49] <daniels> you no longer have to build and upload the whole frigging tree to fix a single typo <- HOLY CRAP YES
[08:49] <marilize> tepsipakki: will go out within the next day or two.....
[08:51] <Amaranth> daniels: exactly
[08:51] <Amaranth> daniels: that right there is reason enough to do it
[08:51] <daniels> i did a bit of work on the debian xorg packaging today
[08:51] <daniels> i'd forgotten how much building the fonts sucked
[08:52] <daniels> (ironically, the bug I was fixing was in building Xprint -- go figure)
[08:52] <Amaranth> but let's pretend i laughed
[08:53] <daniels> because I've been working on killing Xprint, and did in Ubuntu
[08:53] <daniels> and now we get xorg into Debian, the first bug I have to fix is about XPrint
[08:53] <Amaranth> heh
[08:53] <Amaranth> can't kill Xprint in debian?
[08:53] <daniels> no, sadly
[08:53] <daniels> can't make the same kinds of arbitrary decisions I can in Ubuntu
[08:53] <daniels> even though it's only semi-arbitrary (it really, really sucks)
[08:54] <Amaranth> Why is it needed then?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> daniels, that is simultaneously the biggest flaw and the biggest asset of debian
[08:56] <Amaranth> Burgundavia: a fiefdom?
[08:57] <Burgundavia> not being able to make arbitrary decisions
[08:58] <Amaranth> that's because it's a fiefdom though
[08:58] <Burgundavia> not really
[08:59] <Amaranth> well, maybe not in this case
[08:59] <Amaranth> but if i own a package i can shut down anything you'd ever want to do with it
[08:59] <Amaranth> which is great but also awful
[08:59] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:59] <Burgundavia> more group ownership is needed
[09:00] <Amaranth> need some way to override package owner
[09:11] <daniels> Amaranth: xprint isn't needed at all -- hence why it's not in ubuntu
[09:12] <Amaranth> daniels: someone somewhere _might_ want it so it stays in debian?
[09:12] <daniels> pretty much
[09:34] <fabbione> infinity: you around?
[09:51] <daniels> infinity: nevermind, just realised the binaries need NEWing.
[09:59] <\sh> wow...what gras did daniels smoke when god created xorg?
[10:02] <tepsipakki> who is hosting backports.ubuntuforums.org? it seems to be down
[10:03] <\sh> tepsi: we don't have to do anything with bugports..please ask on this forumwebpage
[10:04] <Burgundavia> or in #ubuntuforums
[10:04] <daniels> \sh: hm?
[10:05] <Lathiat> heh bugports
[10:06] <\sh> daniels: the comments are quite weired...flying cars, largest binary ,-) looks like my "koelsch" moved into your finger ;)
[10:06] <\sh> and now I'm searching the ip address of the netapp
[10:07] <sivang> moring all
[10:07] <sivang> morning, even
[10:07] <Simira> morning
[10:08] <fabbione> infinity: piiing?
[10:09] <daniels> \sh: they probably make more sense if you're a native English speaker
[10:10] <ogra> http://www.ubuntuguide.org/#changeportnumberapache
[10:10] <ogra> morning
[10:10] <Burgundavia> ogra, it is the ubuntuguide, what do you expect?
[10:10] <ogra> heh
[10:10] <Nafallo> ogra: morning :-)
[10:11] <sivang> morning ogra 
[10:11] <ogra> Burgundavia, but thats information i really wouldnt expect there....and i'm wondering about the usecase...
[10:11] <Burgundavia> someone needed it
[10:11] <ogra> heh
[10:11] <Burgundavia> some it got rit
[10:12] <Burgundavia> so it got rit
[10:16] <fabbione> infinity: unping
[10:19] <\sh> daniels: can be
[10:19] <ogra> "Usually when I fill crap bug reports, Sbastien is there
[10:19] <ogra> to correct me, maybe he sent you ?! ;o)"
[10:19] <ogra> LOL
[10:20] <ogra> ubuntu-users is to funny today ...
[10:20] <\sh> ogra: dilys is for malone what?
[10:20] <ogra> \sh, did you already meet her ?
[10:21] <ogra> \sh, /join #ubuntu-bugs and wait....
[10:21] <ogra> she tells you nice things about new bugs ;)
[10:22] <\sh> ogra: wonderful...red hair, green eyes and reporting new bugs..she's married? ;)
[10:22] <ogra> \sh, dunno, kiko knows her personally, but i heard she looks very good *g*
[10:23] <Simira> \sh : to malone, maybe?
[10:23] <ogra> yeah
[10:23] <ogra> heh
[10:23] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:23] <ogra> seb128, sad, now i have to qoute again, didnt know you werent here yet
[10:23] <ogra> "Usually when I fill crap bug reports, Sbastien is there
[10:23] <ogra> to correct me, maybe he sent you ?! ;o)"
[10:24] <jsgotangco> lol
[10:26] <seb128> ah ah
[10:26] <seb128> who said that ?
[10:26] <ogra> seb128, vincent trouilliez in ubuntu-users ;)
[10:26] <jsgotangco> oohhh
[10:27] <\sh> wonderful
[10:28] <ogra> ivoks bashed him a bit because he expected a bug to be fixed after 3 days, that was his answer....
[10:28] <\sh> I'm deleted all my effords to build ace for gcc4
[10:28] <\sh> s/ed/ing/
[10:28] <ogra> \sh, nothing at redhat ?
[10:28] <daniels> seb128: i think you need to be more nice to our users
[10:28] <\sh> ogra: debian maintainer is working on new packages with new upstream
[10:29] <ogra> \sh, so with luck we get them into breezy then...
[10:29] <\sh> ogra: but he's busy now, cause he's moving from a to b next to c and doesn't have time to work on it
[10:29] <\sh> and ace is a piece of package crap...
[10:30] <ogra> hmm, we should have better local presence... then we could just send out a team of MOTUs doing the moving and he could fix the package *g*
[10:32] <\sh> ogra: not a bad idea..MOTUSports will be created ,-)
[10:32] <ogra> hehe.... but with a big note that it is not about sports games :)
[10:32] <jsgotangco> awww
[10:32] <jsgotangco> *snaps fingers*
[10:33] <seb128> daniels: he, I'm nice with users!
[10:33] <daniels> seb128: apparently not :P
[10:34] <seb128> bah, this guy ... :)
[10:34] <daniels> seb128: really I love you
[10:34] <daniels> seb128: i just also want my panel to work
[10:35] <seb128> the issue is still here with the current version and dropping the .session ?
[10:35] <daniels> haven't seen it in a while, to be honest
[10:35] <ogra> Burgundavia, thatnks for closing the backports bug for me :)
[10:35] <Burgundavia> ogra, np
[10:36] <Burgundavia> ogra, I like to stomp on backports users filing bugs, it is fun!
[10:36] <ogra> heh
[10:36] <seb128> daniels: ah, nice
[10:36] <ajmitch> hi
[10:36] <ogra> hey ajmitch 
[10:36] <seb128> daniels: "/usr/bin/xvfb-run: line 146: Xvfb: command not found" ... is that a xvfb bog, or just me using it wrong ?
[10:36] <sivang> seb128: any news from jamesh ? He hasn't responded to my email yet
[10:36] <seb128> sivang: nop
[10:36] <seb128> jamesh: ping?
[10:37] <ajmitch> seb128: you asked if I was here, a number of hours ago?
[10:37] <seb128> ajmitch: yeah, I don't get what you synced from Debian for anjuta
[10:37] <seb128> ajmitch: according to the diff, nothing out a changelog entry
[10:37] <ajmitch> let me check, I did a few of them quite awhile ago
[10:38] <seb128> s/a changelog/of a changelog/
[10:39] <ajmitch> seb128: right, so the changes should have been dropped, my mistake
[10:40] <seb128> ajmitch: k, so I can ask a sync, thanks
[10:43] <daniels> seb128: gnar
[10:43] <daniels> seb128: i mean, that's really awesome
[10:43] <seb128> ?
[10:44] <daniels>   * Add proper paths to xvfb-run (thanks, Sbastien Bacher).
[10:44] <daniels> your name's correct, yeah?
[10:44] <seb128> yep
[10:44] <seb128> thanks :)
[10:46] <daniels> word
[10:46] <Amaranth> does IRC not allow  in NAME?
[10:46] <Treenaks> Amaranth: no
[10:48] <Amaranth> oh, it's USER
[10:48] <Amaranth> but yeah
[10:54] <sivang> has anyone seen pitti ?
[10:56] <ogra> sivang, he's in HEL
[10:56] <ogra> sivang, only around for short periods from time to time
[10:57] <Burgundavia> ogra, your answer was very word
[10:57] <Burgundavia> y
[10:58] <ogra> Burgundavia, yes, it starts to annoy me...
[10:59] <Burgundavia> but you got the info across, so that is all that matters
[10:59] <Burgundavia> been thinking about the ubuntu device database UI
[10:59] <Burgundavia> the first page could use some help
[11:00] <ogra> yes
[11:00] <Burgundavia> should I file bugs or just email you?
[11:00] <ogra> file bugs... i'll start the new client soon and grab them all to work along
[11:00] <Burgundavia> cool
[11:16] <daniels> seb128: p.fd.o: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/alanc?entry=can_gnome_startup_time_be
[11:17] <daniels> HOLY SHIT
[11:17] <daniels> seb128: PLEASE PACKAGE COWBELL NOW
[11:17] <daniels> seb128: http://www.more-cowbell.org/
[11:19] <TerminX> is the alsa mixer settings not being restored on boot a known issue?
[11:19] <sivang> daniels: phee, looks cool
[11:24] <sivang> ogra: HEL ?
[11:27] <ogra> sivang, debconf
[11:31] <sivang> ogra: oh
[11:35] <seb128> daniels: we use LDFLAGS optimizations for most of the GNOME packages
[11:36] <seb128> daniels: and rhythmbox is better :p
[11:36] <daniels> seb128: cool
[11:36] <daniels> seb128: er, dude?  rhythmbox doesn't do tagging
[11:36] <seb128> it does if you turn the configure option for that
[11:37] <seb128> it's known to have some issues, but I'm considering turning it on and bugging upstream to get these issues fixed
[11:37] <ogra> yay
[11:37] <daniels> ah, crazy
[11:37] <daniels> but cowbell is lovely anyway
[11:37] <daniels> can we please have it? :)
[11:38] <seb128> daniels: and the current Ubuntu version does audio CD recording :)
[11:38] <daniels> come on, I fixed your xvfb-run bug in like thirty seconds
[11:38] <daniels> seb128: awesome!
[11:38] <ogra> daniels, put it on UiverseCandidates, we'll find a MOTU for it :)
[11:38] <ogra> Universe even
[11:38] <daniels> bah, it needs main lovin'
[11:40] <daniels> hm
[11:40] <daniels> apparently I had 30GB of hoary chroots
[11:43] <thomasvs> anyone here have an idea why current hoary gtk-doc is back to accessing the network when building docs ?
[11:44] <Lathiat> thomasvs: iirc it grabs some schemas or whatever their called
[11:44] <Lathiat> for xml style stuff
[11:47] <seb128> thomasvs: you have a DTD on http which is not listed by the local xml catalog?
[11:49] <Lathiat> thats what i was trying to say
[11:50] <thomasvs> seb128: well, it's one of our buildslaves, administered by someone.  does he need to install a dtd package ?
[12:04] <daniels> ------- Additional Comments From seb128@ubuntu.com  2005-07-12 10:46 UTC -------
[12:04] <daniels> This bug is fixed with this upload which uses "Manuel Pages":
[12:04] <daniels> are they from barcelona?
[12:04] <seb128> daniels: hum, I kind of made a typo here :p
[12:04] <seb128> the upstream version is correct :)
[12:05] <bob2> hahaha
[12:07] <daniels> win 23
[12:08] <ogra> win 23  ?
[12:08] <ogra> is that catch 22 +1 ?
[12:08] <Lathiat> ogra: he left out a / for /win 23 which in irssi take syou to window 23...
[12:08] <highvolt1ge> or a dyslexic win32?
[12:08] <Treenaks> highvolt1ge: no, it's an older version of win32
[12:08] <ogra> from 1880 ?
[12:09] <Treenaks> ogra: no, win16 is from 1990
[12:09] <ogra> ah, yep, i forgot :) its so long ago
[12:09] <Mithrandir> www/win 31
[12:09] <Mithrandir> argh
[12:09] <ogra> heh
[12:10] <Mithrandir> wpasupplicant fucks up my network here
[12:10] <Mithrandir> when I'm doing large rsyncs
[12:11] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: get ALL devs to fix it together!
[12:26] <highvolt1ge> i find it nicer in irssi to press <esc>32 instead of /window 32
[12:28] <Amaranth> * libbeagle, a C library for querying the beagle daemon.
[12:28] <azeem> highvolt1ge: eh, doesn't that jump to window 3?
[12:34] <highvolt1ge> azeem: quite right. i only have a few windows (never been to 23 in irssi).
[12:36] <azeem> I can access the first 20 or so via alt+[1-9]  and alt+[qwerty]  and so on
[12:37] <daniels> right, that's what I do
[12:38] <hughsie> ogra: ping
[12:38] <bob2> then s-l, then through esp/xml-rpc
[12:40] <ogra> hughsie, pong
[12:41] <hughsie> ogra: nice one. I've added your prelim. man sgml pages to g-p-m last night, hope you don;t mind
[12:41] <ogra> hughsie, not at all... i'll send you the update from the new package then
[12:42] <hughsie> ogra, cool, agaist cvs. I re-organsied them a bit too
[12:42] <ogra> hughsie, oki
[12:42] <hughsie> they still say ogra@.... for debian, but makes them a bit more neutral if you know what i mean
[12:43] <ogra> hughsie, feel free to wipe my name or debian from them, i really dont care ;) its only a manpage :)
[12:43] <hughsie> ogra: no, credit's where credits due!
[12:43] <ogra> heh, ok...
[12:43] <hughsie> ogra: now, the complicated bit.
[12:44] <hughsie> how do I add them into the makefile.am bit?
[12:44] <hughsie> and the clean and distclean bits?
[12:45] <ogra> hmm, good question... i do that in the package, never cared for manpages in Makefiles....
[12:45] <hughsie> is that a rule, or a preference?
[12:46] <ogra> but i guess something like docbook-to-man debian/gnome-power-preferences.sgml > \
[12:46] <ogra>                         gnome-power-preferences.1
[12:46] <hughsie> in Makefile.am?
[12:46] <ogra> and a install -m 644 gnome-power-preferences.1 should do it
[12:47] <ogra> hmm
[12:47] <hughsie> if i was using a Makefile, i would agree, but makefile.am makes it more complicted
[12:47] <hughsie> Would i use install-data-local: ?
[12:47] <ogra> yep
[12:47] <ogra> sounds good
[12:59] <pef> hello
[01:02] <\sh> hmmm....did anybody test todays breezy install iso?
[01:03] <Kamion> not yet
[01:03] <Kamion> broken?
[01:04] <\sh> looks like...initrd-tools it stops at install stage
[01:05] <Kamion> generally signals debootstrap failure, errors don't seem to be caught quite properly earlier
[01:05] <Kamion> I'll sync up and have a look
[01:05] <Kamion> which arch?
[01:05] <\sh> i386
[01:05] <Amaranth> wow, bram cohen's blog is awesome
[01:06] <Amaranth> http://www.livejournal.com/users/bramcohen/
[01:11] <pef> If I correct a bug in a package, then I upload it's source to revu, the .deb will be automatically make ?
[01:11] <pef> s/make/made/
[01:12] <hughsie> ogra: gnome-power-manager.1: gnome-power-manager.sgml
[01:12] <hughsie> 	docbook2man $? && mv gnome-power-manager.1 $@
[01:12] <hughsie> ogra: easy when you know how!
[01:13] <infinity> Ugh.  What's a polite way to say "your stuff is utter crap"?
[01:13] <infinity> Also, -EWIN.
[01:13] <infinity> Yay!
[01:13] <Lathiat> "your stuff is utter crap"
[01:13] <infinity> Lathiat : Thanks.
[01:13] <Lathiat> no problems
[01:13] <Lathiat> glad to be of service
[01:14] <mdke> Mez, Seveas, ping
[01:17] <seb128> kubuntu guys, any reason to not assign KDE bugs to kubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com ?
[01:17] <Seveas> mdke, pong
[01:17] <Mez> mdke: sup?
[01:18] <seb128> that would make easier to list unassigned bug (debzilla ones)
[01:18] <mdke> Seveas, Mez hang on one moment, i'll be with ya
[01:19] <Mez> siretart: ping
[01:20] <Mez> brb
[01:20] <\sh> argl
[01:21] <Seveas> \sh, is that a long argc?
[01:21] <\sh> why someone is filing a bug for a main package in malone 
[01:21] <Seveas> :)
[01:22] <Seveas> \sh, because the whole main/universe and bugzilla/malone separation is not intuitive and not clear for new users
[01:22] <\sh> yeah...and I'm uploading main stuff cause I'm thinking it's universe stuff.../me is a noob too
[01:23] <Seveas> :)
[01:23] <\sh> lets see
[01:23] <Mez> siretart: ping
[01:23] <\sh> if malone is so nice...I can click here and have a new bug in bugzilla??
[01:23] <Mez> and mdke: repong
[01:25] <mdke> Mez, Seveas, have a read of this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=47739
[01:27] <Mez> #FYI: Seveas wrote the guidelines
[01:28] <mdke> ????
[01:28] <mdke> this is not about blame
[01:28] <Seveas> mdke, the forums people like to separate themselves from the rest of the community it seems
[01:29] <mdke> Seveas, i disagree
[01:29] <Seveas> using their own wiki section for instance
[01:29] <mdke> it is up to us to integrate
[01:29] <mdke> Seveas, that wiki section was designed by Henrik and the docteam together with the forum moderators and users
[01:29] <mdke> it is a good initiative
[01:29] <\sh> anyone with main rights: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12631 can u do the fix..it's trivial and upload?
[01:30] <Mez> mdke, we're working on our own guide - but - I have no problems with UbuntuGuide - I direct people to there.
[01:30] <bob2> wow, way to fly off the handle
[01:30] <Seveas> mdke, I don't think having a separate wiki section is a good idea, why not just use the wiki as is?
[01:30] <\sh> i included the debdiff..so it's easier for u :)
[01:31] <mdke> Seveas, there are good reasons, I'll point you to them in a sec
[01:31] <Seveas> mdke, please do
[01:31] <Seveas> Mez, a new guide won't be that useful
[01:31] <mdke> no
[01:31] <Seveas> since docteam is working on things like that
[01:31] <mdke> we need to aim at integration rather than the opposite
[01:31] <Seveas> indeed
[01:31] <Mez> Seveas ;D I know that -wich is why we'll be working with the docteam :D
[01:32] <bob2> so doc unification is still going to happen?
[01:32] <bob2> good work guys :)
[01:33] <siretart> Mez: pong
[01:33] <Seveas> bob2, afaik the docteam is working on this
[01:33] <Mez> siretart: I need to send you a new public key for REVU - my comp went kaboom and I lsot all my data - had to make a new key
[01:33] <bob2> Seveas: yeah, but then there's the wiki people, and now it seems the forum people, in addition to using the forums to publish documentation, have their own wiki corner
[01:34] <mdke> Seveas, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=33898&page=1&pp=10
[01:34] <siretart> Mez: boy, you better make backups. your key is important, man
[01:34] <bob2> Mez: did you have a revokation cert?
[01:34] <Mez> siretart : my gf wiped my USB key with my backup on.
[01:34] <mdke> bob2, the forum section on the wiki is in order to allow forum users who do not necessarily know how to use the wiki to paste information, which then gets integrated into the main wiki
[01:34] <mdke> that is the plan
[01:34] <Mez> bob2, yes with the backup :'(
[01:34] <siretart> Mez: so, go on, revoke your old key and send me a new one
[01:35] <bob2> Mez: before you send anyone else your new key, go print the cert out
[01:35] <siretart> b
[01:35] <Mez> bob2 - I'm sorting backups etc etc etc out wight now :D
[01:36] <Seveas> all in cryptollops on different servers
[01:36] <Seveas> cryptoloop*
[01:37] <siretart> lets please move to #ubuntu-motu
[01:39] <mdke> Mez, Seveas, we can move to #ubuntu-doc if you like
[01:40] <Kamion> \sh: chage: can't open shadow password file
[01:40] <Kamion> \sh: that seems to be what's killing it
[01:40] <ogra> Mez, burn your key on a CD and lock it away anywhere.... if its signed once, you dont wanna loose it ever again, its hard to get all the signs again
[01:40] <Mez> mdke - #ubuntu-nun
[01:40] <Kamion> and indeed, there's no shadow password file
[01:40] <\sh> Kamion: ah..good to know...I wasn't sure if it was something with my virtual machine
[01:41] <Mez> ogra: I know that now :D had Phil and Riddell Sign it- I dont anymore :D
[01:41] <Kamion> that should be impossible though, base-passwd configuration is supposed to create /etc/shadow
[01:41] <ogra> \sh, djvulibre ftbfs on amd64
[01:42] <\sh> ogra: hmm...ubuntu1 not...strange
[01:42] <mdke> Mez, *sigh*
[01:42] <\sh> ogra: logs?
[01:42] <ogra> GString.h:163: error: expected ',' or '...' before '&' token
[01:42] <ogra> GString.h:163: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of 'GBaseString' with no type
[01:42] <\sh> hahahaha
[01:43] <\sh> ogra: will take care about it...moment
[02:03] <\sh> oh man...sometimes internet is difficult
[02:30] <mpt> \sh: Keep trying, eventually you'll beat it
[02:30] <mpt> \sh: The big monster at the end is hard, though
[02:34] <\sh> And now I can explain him how the DNS works..
[02:35] <ogra> ha ha
[02:35] <ogra> i thought you love it ?
[02:35] <ogra> *g*
[02:37] <\sh> I love my tru64...I love my solaris, I love my linux, even windows I will love, if there is no call center who will bug me with questions like "The customer said, that his domain moved since last week to a new IP address, but he can't reach it.." Yes, dear call center and customer, you should choose the right provider...a provider who knows how to update a domainname zone...first thing: increase serialnumber, second thing: don't use confixx
[02:38] <ogra> heh
[02:39] <\sh> I should test setop box software or byting smartcards...
[02:40] <\sh> ogra: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12631 <- new diff please test :)
[02:41] <ogra> i'll do
[02:41] <\sh> thx
[02:41] <netdur> people, see this http://www.netdur.info/tmp/SagatOnAction.png
[02:45] <netdur> its something I'm developing for ubuntu... I could make it run for first time today
[02:52] <Amaranth> err
[02:52] <Amaranth> what does it do?
[02:52] <netdur> bash glade wrapper!
[02:53] <Amaranth> o_O
[02:58] <netdur> you don't think it's cool? shell scripts have GUI?
[02:59] <\sh> yeah..it's called VisualBasicScript
[03:00] <ogra> nope, its called zenity
[03:00] <JaneW> who deals with blender?
[03:00] <schweeb> netdur: use perl or python or any other scripting language that has gnome/glade/other gui  bindings
[03:00] <ogra> JaneW, MOTU ?
[03:00] <JaneW> and more specifically a python interface to belnder
[03:00] <JaneW> blender
[03:01] <ogra> hmm, we could aks ajmitch 
[03:01] <ogra> hehe
[03:01] <ogra> oki
[03:02] <Amaranth> netdur: It's a neat hack, but I don't see much of a use for it.
[03:03] <netdur> Amaranth, imagine all scripts in ubuntuguide.org have GUI
[03:03] <Amaranth> anytime you need a GUI the overhead from running python or something instead of bash isn't worth much
[03:04] <ogra> netdur, thats easy done with zenity, whats the advantage of our wrapper ?
[03:04] <ogra> your even
[03:04] <netdur> zenity do dialogs only
[03:04] <netdur> mine let you use glade
[03:04] <ogra> ah
[03:05] <ogra> ok, that makes a difference...
[03:08] <Amaranth> hmm, odd
[03:09] <Amaranth> GtkFileChooser is showing my empty cdrw drive, my floppy drive, and ld-linux.so.2 as shortcuts in the left list
[03:10] <netdur> ogra, "our wrapper"!!! are zenity you developer?
[03:10] <ogra> nope, it was a typo ;) 
[03:10] <ogra> i meant your wrapper
[03:10] <netdur> okay
[03:12] <Amaranth> wtf
[03:12] <Amaranth> when can root not overwrite a file?
[03:13] <seb128> Amaranth: ?
[03:13] <Amaranth> oh, when the dir is marked read-only
[03:13] <mr-russ> Amaranth: when +i is set.
[03:13] <torkel> Amaranth: when writing on a nonlocal filesystem
[03:14] <mr-russ> chattr.
[03:14] <bob2> when the disk is screwed
[03:14] <Treenaks> or a combination of the above
[03:15] <\sh> JaneW will become a MOTU?
[03:16] <\sh> or did I understand something wrong? ,-)
[03:16] <JaneW> \sh LOL
[03:16] <JaneW> that's me 'Mistress Of The Universe' ;)
[03:16] <\sh> oh uh....don't do it...I like it ,-)
[03:18] <ogra> LOL
[03:19] <ogra> JaneW, you know such names have glue on them ? 
[03:20] <ogra> and they get stick very fast :)
[03:20] <ogra> sticky
[03:20] <JaneW> ogra: *grin*
[03:20] <Amaranth> you mean you think we're all going to call her mistress now?
[03:20] <\sh> JaneW: welcome on board :) i think dholbach will write a nice announcement
[03:20] <ogra> yeah
[03:20] <Amaranth> nah, i'd never call mistress that
[03:21] <Amaranth> err
[03:21] <Amaranth> JaneW: 
[03:21] <JaneW> no  no ... I'll leave the leather pants to you guys... ;)
[03:21] <\sh> Amaranth: actually, we know our new mistress likes kids...so we're the best community for her at all ;)
[03:21] <Amaranth> lmao
[03:21] <Treenaks> JaneW: \sh is german... Germans like leather pants
[03:21] <\sh> hahahha
[03:21] <ogra> *grin*
[03:22] <\sh> only bavarian guys..and bavaria != germany and munich is not the main capital of germany ,-)
[03:22] <ogra> munich is outer space
[03:22] <Treenaks> \sh: I heard it's that way in/around Leipzig as well
[03:22] <\sh> oh yeah and ogra likes some special kind of leather pants :) 
[03:22] <Treenaks> \sh: and Leipzig != Bavaria
[03:22] <\sh> leipzig?
[03:22] <\sh> that's behind the wall...,-)
[03:23] <Treenaks> \sh: so?
[03:23] <ogra> Treenaks, way more south
[03:23] <ogra> Treenaks, nearly bayern ;)
[03:23] <\sh> I've never been to the eastern part of germany...it's a black hole on my map of germany
[03:24] <Amaranth> damnit
[03:24] <Amaranth> i spent the money for harry potter on my domain name
[03:24] <Amaranth> stupid domain name
[03:24] <ogra> \sh, its really beautiful
[03:24] <\sh> ogra: yeah...I want to go to Usedom someday...
[03:24] <Treenaks> \sh: maybe because of your age :P
[03:25] <Treenaks> \o/
[03:25] <\sh> Treenaks: honestly speaking: it was a real problem for me to accept this change in our (german) history...but finally, I know now some really nice people out there :)
[03:26] <ogra> Treenaks, helping dholbach to find a flat ?
[03:26] <\sh> Treenaks: really? when? beginning or end of septembre?
[03:26] <Treenaks> ogra: well no.. but he said he'd be there in the same weekend
[03:26] <Treenaks> \sh: very beginning (3-6)
[03:26] <Treenaks> ogra: and maybe sivang too
[03:26] <\sh> wooo...I know where I'm staying some days :)
[03:26] <ogra> Treenaks, yes, i heard sivang wants to visit germany
[03:27] <\sh> Treenaks: I have some free days, 14 days actually
[03:27] <Treenaks> mini-meet! ;)
[03:27] <\sh> mini-meet with mini-meat? :) currywurst ,-)
[03:27] <Treenaks> \sh: und Bier :)
[03:30] <\sh> Treenaks: hehehe...for sure...and I think dholbach will join and forget his move easily ,-)
[03:31] <Treenaks> \sh: ;)
[03:31] <\sh> ogra: think u have to visit berlin as well ;)
[03:31] <ogra> \sh, unlikely
[03:31] <ogra> \sh, you dont know dholbach :)
[03:32] <\sh> ogra: so expensive?
[03:32] <Treenaks> ogra: what's unlikely? the forgetting or the visiting part?
[03:32] <ogra> \sh, yes, i'll have to... my best friend lives there, but we didnt meet for 7 years now
[03:32] <ogra> Treenaks, the forgetting
[03:32] <Treenaks> ah :)
[03:32] <\sh> ogra: so this is setteled
[03:33] <\sh> ogra: so..we need a barrel?
[03:33] <ogra> but i doubt edubuntu will leave me time for travelling before release
[03:33] <Treenaks> \sh: yes, but which day (I want to do some touristy things as well, such as walk around on the Pariser Platz etc.
[03:34] <\sh> Treenaks: i will join u...the last time I went to berlin, it was 1995
[03:36] <\sh> Treenaks: and I didn't see anything only the fair and a austrian restaurant next to our hotel...and from those tourist things I saw only the girls from the hostess services which were booked by the fair administration
[03:36] <\sh> so berlin is a black hole, too
[03:36] <Treenaks> \sh: let me guess, inside the hotel room?
[03:36] <\sh> Treenaks: no...there was a party sponsored by fair administration...
[03:36] <Treenaks> \sh: ah ok
[03:37] <\sh> Treenaks: ah...*ping* now :) sorry...I think hostess services is the wrong word
[03:37] <Treenaks> \sh: well, I really want to see the "landmarks", and just walk around aimlessly ;)
[03:53] <pef> could someone have a look to http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=118 please , thanks !
[03:54] <trulux> pitti: heya
[03:54] <trulux> pitti: how's debconf5?
[03:54] <pitti> trulux: great
[03:54] <Amaranth> pef: wrong channel :)
[03:54] <trulux> pitti: tell us :D
[03:54] <pitti> trulux: many people, nice uni and nice wheather
[03:55] <pef> Amaranth: #ubuntu-motu is more adequate ?
[03:55] <trulux> pitti: take photos :)
[03:55] <Amaranth> pef: yeah
[03:55] <pef> ok ;)
[03:57] <pitti> trulux: I have been very lazy wrt taking photos so far, but I'll do some :-)
[04:02] <trulux> pitti: I have some of LSM 2005
[04:02] <trulux> http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/photos/lsm-2005/
[04:02] <trulux> pitti: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/photos/lsm-2005/img030.jpeg.html <- Misery Bar :D
[04:03] <trulux> pitti: http://pearls.tuxedo-es.org/photos/lsm-2005/img042.jpeg.html <- on the police station building wall :)
[04:03] <trulux> doko: hey
[04:03] <trulux> doko: SSP got mainline
[04:04] <trulux> doko: now we don't have reasons to be against it's deployment
[04:04] <trulux> pitti: did you know such great news?
[04:04] <pitti> trulux: SSP is in gcc head now?
[04:04] <pitti> coool
[04:04] <Treenaks> what's SSP?
[04:04] <pitti> Treenaks: compile-time stack buffer overflow protection
[04:05] <Treenaks> pitti: cool
[04:05] <pitti> Stack Smash Protector IIRC
[04:05] <trulux> pitti: yeah, lemme get you the link
[04:05] <trulux> just a sec
[04:05] <trulux> pitti: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2005-07/msg00069.html
[04:06] <trulux> pitti: libssp is now Red Hat's approach too
[04:07] <pitti> trulux: that's just great news - apparently there's both ssp and fortify
[04:08] <trulux> pitti: I'm also going to send the bounty prop. as soon as I finish a patch for SELinux I've been working for a month or so
[04:08] <trulux> pitti: also I hope to work on some vsec stuff and contact back the dude from Singapore who was working on some vsec improvements
[04:27] <seb128> cool, wxwidgets2.6 has been uploaded to Debian
[04:27] <ogra> yay
[04:28] <ogra> i just talked to JaneW about SPE packages.....
[04:28] <luis_> spe?
[04:29] <ogra> they are lying on my disk since ages... waiting for wx 2.6
[04:29] <ogra> luis_, a python IDE
[04:29] <seb128> luis_: is libgnomeservice something that should be packaged now?
[04:29] <ogra> with obviousy great blender support
[04:30] <luis_> seb128: I didn't get a chance to build it last night
[04:30] <luis_> seb128: so I can't say
[04:30] <seb128> luis_: k
[04:30] <seb128> luis_: if that's something we want to consider for GNOME 2.12 I'll put packages with a patched gnome-session on my webpage
[04:32] <luis_> seb128: it certainly resolves a big management problem
[04:32] <luis_> in that it (in theory) allows you to drop one file in one place and get it started with the session
[04:32] <luis_> which gnome has (pathetically) never really supported
[04:33] <seb128> luis_: yeah, I know, that would be great for distribution for stuff like update-manager
[04:33] <seb128> luis_: just have to ship the .desktop with the package
[04:33] <luis_> yup
[04:33] <luis_> yupo
[04:34] <Firetech> I just found a thing that would be great for newbies if it came with ubuntu by default... GNU Source Installer: http://www.gnu.org/software/sourceinstall/
[04:34] <luis_> so it seems like if rodrigo thinks that it will be ready for that purpose, you guys might want to consider shipping it regardless of whether or not it is officially in 2.12
[04:34] <seb128> luis_: right
[04:34] <seb128> I'll ping jdub about this
[04:40] <carstenh> Firetech: and who patches it to generate packages and call dpkg -i packagename?
[04:41] <Firetech> carstenh: it is made to have it's own source "repository", it doesn't have to use .deb's
[04:42] <Firetech> That would be a good idea though... patch it to use checkinstall or something...
[04:42] <carstenh> Firetech: i don't think encouraging newbies^someone to install software without using the package-system provided by the distribution they use i a good idea
[04:43] <infinity> Firetech : I'm not sure how "tool to manage compilation and installation of source packages" could ever possibly be "a good thing to include by default for newbies".
[04:43] <infinity> Firetech : We provide a binary packaged system that Just Works specifically so users DON'T have to do this.
[04:43] <infinity> (not that it isn't perhaps a cool tool/idea, and something I'd like to see tossed in Universe)
[04:43] <Firetech> infinity: there are packages that arent in the repositories...
[04:44] <carstenh> Firetech: and newbies don't knbow them normally
[04:44] <infinity> Firetech : Yes, there are, and having a tool in main, installed by deault, that encourages users to install those source packages is NOT a good idea.
[04:44] <\sh> Firetech: you're invited to join MOTU and help us to increase 15000 packages to the highest ammount ever
[04:44] <infinity> Firetech : It's unsupportable, and can lead to serious breakage.  But it would be a great tool in Universe.
[04:45] <carstenh> Firetech: as infinity already siad, it may be usefull in universe
[04:45] <\sh> infinity: what tool do u mean? portage is for gentoo ,-)
[04:45] <Firetech> \sh: I haven't learnt myself how to make deb's without an existing debian folder yet :/
[04:45] <\sh> Firetech: well...dh_make :) helps and #ubuntu-motu :)
[04:45] <pef> Firetech: they are very cool ;)
[04:47] <Firetech> pef: the MOTU guys?
[04:48] <\sh> yes we're 
[04:48] <Firetech> :P
[04:48] <pef> Firetech: yep, very helpfull with beginners
[04:48] <infinity> Much more so than grumpy people like me, I'm sure. :)
[04:49] <Firetech> sourceinstall is more a cool idea than a tool, because it's not very nice to look at ;)
[04:50] <infinity> GNU is not known for their pretty GUIs...
[04:50] <\sh> infinity: u would make a really good MOTU :) and with JaneW as Mistress Of The Universe...those whip producers will increase their income easily ,-)
[04:50] <Firetech> it works pretty well and has a GUI control for the ./configure phase
[04:50] <ajf6> just look at their website
[04:50] <infinity> Though, others have been known to take GNU tools and make them look less crap.
[04:50] <Firetech> :)
[04:51] <\sh> autoconf/automake as an example ;)
[04:52] <Firetech> how do I know if a packagse shopuld be single or multiple binary?
[04:52] <Firetech> *should
[04:54] <ajf6> multiple binary will set you up to generate several packages
[04:54] <infinity> Firetech : If it's a client/server that should be logically split up, if it's a binary and libraries that should be split up, blah blah.
[04:54] <ajf6> for something like SSH, it'll do ssh-client and ssh-server debs
[04:54] <infinity> Firetech : If there are multiple libraries that don't share a common SOVERSION, always split them up (or you'll end up having to do so later, with much hassle)
[04:55] <Firetech> it's for sourceinstall, I don't think it has anything else than one binary and a symlink to that binary
[04:56] <infinity> Well, then it's pretty obviously a single binary package.
[04:58] <Firetech> what is a multi binary package then?
[04:59] <infinity> One source package that produces multiple binary (.deb) packages.
[04:59] <infinity> Linke, mysql-dfsg produces mysql-server, mysql-client, libmysqlclient12, mysql-common, etc.
[04:59] <infinity> (For instance)
[04:59] <infinity> s/Linke/Like/
[04:59] <Firetech> aha
[04:59] <Firetech> ok
[05:01] <Firetech> what file contains the dependencies?
[05:02] <Firetech> nm, found it
[05:03] <infinity> Note that you shouldn't hardcode dependencies on libraries, dpkg-shlibdeps will magically figure those out for you at build-time.
[05:04] <Firetech> it depends on some packages that it doesn't seem to find...
[05:05] <Firetech> "expectk" is required and "ncompress" is recommended
[05:05] <infinity> Oh, yeah, it won't magically find non-library packages.  Those, you need to specify. :)
[05:05] <Firetech> didn't read your post correctly :P
[05:06] <Firetech> how do I know if it needs some more packages?
[05:07] <Firetech> I need to get a clean chroot, right?
[05:07] <\sh> Firetech: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
[05:07] <infinity> Ideally, you should try building in a clean chroot (to get the build-deps right), then installing/running in a clean chroot (to make sure the deps are alright)
[05:08] <infinity> You can use pbuilder for the former, but it's not so easy for the latter.  I prefer to just debootstrap a chroot to work in.
[05:08] <infinity> bindmount /tmp into your chroot, and you can run X apps in the chroot, connecting to the X server in the base system.
[05:09] <Firetech> well... sourceinstall doesn't require much building... make didn't do anything...
[05:12] <Lathiat> fabbione: is it ok to file bugs for 2.6.12
[05:12] <Lathiat> mjg59: this is relevant to you too, my usb stops working when i suspend (worked in .10 and i think earlier.12) 
[05:13] <mjg59> Lathiat: Hmm. Ok.
[05:13] <nomed> hi .. just a question
[05:13] <nomed> why alsaconf is not in hoary ?
[05:14] <Lathiat> whoah
[05:14] <Lathiat> or not
[05:14] <Lathiat> thats fully weird
[05:14] <Lathiat> specifically my wireless mouse dongle doesnt work
[05:14] <mjg59> Ha
[05:14] <mjg59> Interesting
[05:14] <Lathiat> if i reboot.. it works
[05:14] <Lathiat> let me try that agian.. brb
[05:14] <Lathiat> it just doesnt show up in dmesg at all
[05:14] <Lathiat> the other stuff does tho
[05:14] <Lathiat> and i tried swapping ports
[05:18] <Lathiat> mjg59: might have something to do with usb1.1 vs usb2.2
[05:18] <Lathiat> s/2.2/2
[05:18] <Lathiat> cus it works after reboot
[05:19] <Firetech> how much space should I make for a clean hoary chroot?
[05:20] <Kamion> about 350MB for base system, plus whatever development packages and scratch space for building things you think will be necessary
[05:21] <Lathiat> mjg59: yeh that would seem to be th emagic
[05:21] <Lathiat> mjg59: if i plug it into my usb hub, which come sup under ehci (rather than uhci)
[05:21] <Lathiat> mjg59: it then works (and ehci reports the mouse too)
[05:21] <Lathiat> mjg59: if that helps..
[05:21] <Firetech> Kamion: about 500 then?
[05:22] <mjg59> So it works with the hub, but not with the internal sockets?
[05:23] <mjg59> Weird
[05:24] <Lathiat> mjg59: yeh, on the internal sockets
[05:24] <Lathiat> uhci seems to handle it
[05:25] <Lathiat> perhaps cus my dongle is usb1.1 where as my hub is usb2 and ehci handles that
[05:25] <Lathiat> not that i know the difference between ehci and uhci
[05:25] <Lathiat> but if i plug the usb1.1 mouse dongle into the usb2 hub it comes up as low speed under the ehci driver
[05:25] <Lathiat> so assumedly the uhci driver is going splat
[05:25] <mjg59> Ok, so run this past me again
[05:26] <mjg59> If you suspend/resume, it only works if it's plugged into the hub, not the internal sockets?
[05:26] <Kamion> Firetech: really just depends on how much you're going to do in it. My Breezy development chroot on this machine is 1.7GB, but I did an LTSP chroot build inside that ...
[05:26] <mjg59> If you rmmod/modprobe uhci-hcd, does it redetect it?
[05:26] <Firetech> infinity: you said something about bindmounting. how to do that?
[05:27] <Firetech> Kamion: It's LVM, so it doesn't really matter right now ;)
[05:27] <Lathiat> mount -o bind /source /target
[05:27] <Lathiat> mjg59: yep
[05:27] <Lathiat> mjg59: so uhci driver is just broken on mjy hardware and not re-initing after suspend properly
[05:27] <Lathiat> fairly sure it worked in .10 and earlier 2.6.12, i can test that later on if you like
[05:28] <Lathiat> fwiw, im suspending to ram
[05:29] <jbailey> Kamion: ping?
[05:29] <Kamion> jbailey: pong
[05:29] <jbailey> Kamion: Where's the best place to report the an install from last night's daily on i386 fails for me?
[05:29] <Firetech> should I use "--variant=buildd" for debootstrap if I plan to use it to check build-dep's and dependencies for new deb's?
[05:30] <Kamion> jbailey: under "known bugs"? :-) Did it fail on debootstrap?
[05:30] <jbailey> Configuring 'base-installed' failed with error code 1
[05:30] <jbailey> So probably.
[05:30] <Kamion> Firetech: you can if you like but it doesn't really matter, just install build-essential after building the chroot
[05:30] <Firetech> okidoki
[05:31] <Lathiat> i wish what ever writes to .xsession-errors wouldnt stop logging 
[05:31] <Kamion> jbailey: right, I think my shadow merge should've fixed that, I'm just waiting for cron.daily to build a new set of CDs
[05:31] <Lathiat> when too much data is in there
[05:31] <Lathiat> wonder if i can change that
[05:31] <Kamion> jbailey: not 100% sure though
[05:31] <Kamion> jbailey: it's down to adduser now requiring /etc/shadow to be present

[05:31] <infinity> And why on earth does it do that?
[05:32] <infinity> Systems without shadow passwords are perfectly valid.
[05:32] <jbailey> Kamion: Ah, cool.  Do we really produce new CDs at each cron.daily run? 
[05:32] <jbailey> (Isn't that like 24 times a day)?
[05:32] <Lathiat> cron.daily is daily... once a day.
[05:32] <Kamion> jbailey: no no, I meant "I'm just waiting for cron.daily before I build a new set of CDs"
[05:32] <infinity> No, the daily cron.daily, not the katie cron.daily. :)
[05:32] <Lathiat> cron.hourly is hourly
[05:32] <Kamion> Lathiat: not on the archive it's not
[05:32] <Lathiat> Kamion: ah
[05:32] <Lathiat> who thought of that up?
[05:32] <jbailey> Kamion: ah, okay. =)
[05:33] <Kamion> Lathiat: it's cron.daily in Debian; we run the same things more often
[05:33] <infinity> Lathiat : The Debian archive runs certain tasks in cron.daily.  Ubuntu does it more often, but the nomenclature stuck.
[05:33] <Kamion> Lathiat: if you like, you can look at it as a 30-minute-long day
[05:33] <jbailey> Kamion: Anything I can usefully help with?  I'm getting lvm on my laptop so that I can beat it with initramfs.  Otherwise I can go onto another task until the next dailies show up.
[05:34] <Kamion> well, on this particular task, a debootstrap of really-really-current breezy from after the next archive.ubuntu.com pulse would be a good check, I suppose
[05:34] <Kamion> I should start switching d-i over to initramfs
[05:35] <jbailey> Kamion: I can easily do ppc or ia64.  My i386 breezy laptop needs to wait until it works before I get much further. =)
[05:35] <jbailey> Unless there's a netinst option on the CDs that I can use?
[05:35] <Kamion> there are netboot mini.isos
[05:36] <jbailey> Ah, cool.  I hadn't seen those in the daily list.
[05:36] <Kamion> infinity: it calls chage to fiddle with password expiry; password expiry information is only stored in shadow
[05:36] <Lathiat> Kamion: heh, 30-minute day :)
[05:36] <Kamion> jbailey: they're only in the {daily-,}installer-* bits of the archive, not on cdimage
[05:37] <infinity> Kamion : adduser has default password expiry now?
[05:37] <infinity> Hrm.
[05:37] <Kamion> infinity: no, it was a bug fix - apparently adduser --system accounts used to expire if you had password expiry set up
[05:37] <lamont__> daniels: ping
[05:37] <Kamion> infinity: so adduser --system now cranks the expiry time back up
[05:38] <infinity> Kamion : But this means that adduser now depends on shadow always being enabled.  What happens in the case when a user explicity disables shadow passwords?.. adduser just blows up?
[05:41] <lamont__> Lathiat: more to the point, the name of the katie script that debian runs every day is 'cron.daily'
[05:41] <lamont__> and that script runs at :03 and :33
[05:41] <lamont__> (in ubuntu)
[05:41] <Lathiat> yeh, i got it :)
[05:42] <lamont__> it's all part of ubuntu's secret to success... you see, with a 30 minute day, we actually release every 12 years, not every 6 months. :-)
[05:42] <Kamion> infinity: I think chage is being fixed
[05:43] <infinity> Kamion : Before we release? :)
[05:43] <Kamion> infinity: hope so :)
[05:45] <lamont__>  /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lssl3
[05:45] <lamont__> bad thundermug
[05:45] <fabbione> hey lamont
[05:45] <lamont__> sim?>
[05:46] <fabbione> lamont__: i got willy to install the packages i needed in the breezy chroot on f11
[05:46] <fabbione> but there is some gcc screw up
[05:46] <lamont__> you mean like gcc not being in the archive yet for breezy/hppa?
[05:46] <fabbione> it looks like gcc-3.4-hppa is completely missing all the new -gnu- symlinks
[05:46] <fabbione> apparently all the B-D are there...
[05:46] <lamont__> well, it _is_ a hoary gcc-3.4-hppa64....
[05:46] <fabbione> dpkg-buildpackage doesn't complain
[05:47] <fabbione> did add pinpoint to hoary?
[05:47] <fabbione> (i didn't check personally)
[05:47] <lamont__> pretty sure it's fixed in the current gcc-3.4
[05:47] <fabbione> and that's not uploaded yet...
[05:47] <lamont__> the USB disk my full archive was living on died last night (need to investigate that...)
[05:47] <lamont__> fabbione: the current gcc-* in the archive are all either dep-wait or ftbfs
[05:48] <fabbione> ah
[05:48] <fabbione> ok
[05:48] <lamont__> but we now have xorg there, so we can build gcc-4.0
[05:48] <lamont__> and 3.4
[05:48] <fabbione> lamont__: as a workaround, can i get kernel-wedge 2.0 in the hoary chroot?
[05:48] <fabbione> lamont__: up to you the way you prefer...
[05:48] <fabbione> i can wait 
[05:49] <lamont__> can I bother with it tonight/tomorrow?
[05:49] <lamont__> (12-36 hours from now, that is)?
[05:49] <fabbione> 2.6.12-4.4 builds fine.. i only need to che udebs creation
[05:49] <fabbione> sure.. 
[05:49] <fabbione> lamont__: i really have no rush :)
[05:49] <lamont__> you know, we could use -4.1 :-)
[05:49] <lamont__> hrm.. or maybe we can't.
[05:49] <lamont__> nm
[05:49] <fabbione> no we can't :)
[05:50] <fabbione> don't confuse the ABI with the version....
[05:50] <fabbione> so i just keep incrementing the last one...
[05:51] <lamont__> hehe
[05:51] <fabbione> and we don't have to make extra branches :)
[05:51] <fabbione> baz is slow enough for what we have
[05:51] <lamont__>  /build/buildd/pike7.6-7.6.27/src/interpret.c:1287: error: PIC register 'ebx' clobbered in 'asm'
[05:51] <lamont__> SCORE!
[05:52] <fabbione> lamont__: we should also look at the linking with gcc problem when you have time and NOT today...
[05:52] <fabbione> and see why it creates non-PIC code when not using ld
[05:53] <fabbione> but that part of the toolchain is really a black hole for me
[05:53] <lamont__> sure - np
[05:53] <lamont__> donde esta elmo, huh?
[05:54] <fabbione> .fi? ;)
[05:54] <lamont__> fabbione: tell me that jbailey didn't write _those_ makefiles too!??
[05:54] <fabbione> oh no.. he did try to help me instead to clean them up
[05:54] <fabbione> that's why i know that linking with gcc brings to non-PIC code :P
[05:54] <lamont__> hrm.. not much fun trolling jbailey when he's not around
[05:55] <fabbione> ehehhe
[05:55] <jbailey> I'm like the moat monster.
[05:55] <jbailey> You can never tell when I'm here.
[05:55] <jbailey> iputils uploaded, patch sent upstream.
[05:55] <fabbione> jbailey: i got iptables fixed this morning :)
[05:55] <lamont__> basically, if you can make it say 'gcc -shared' instead of 'ld -shared', with -Wl, in front of the linker specific opts for like soname, it should just DTRT
[05:56] <fabbione> lamont__: that's what we did...
[05:56] <fabbione> and it didn't DTRT
[05:56] <lamont__> fabbione: yeah.  hrm.
[05:56] <lamont__> iz gtk bug
[05:56] <fabbione> lamont__: ehehhehe
[05:56] <jbailey> fabbione: Thanks.
[05:56] <jbailey> fabbione: That was going to require a serious infusion of vodka.
[05:56] <fabbione> jbailey: no problem...
[05:57] <jbailey> (Which I will provide you with next time you and I should happen to have the occasion)
[05:57] <fabbione> jbailey: no really.. i remember iptables is an interesting package...
[05:57] <jbailey> Interesting like "May you live in Interesting times"
[05:57] <fabbione> (no vodka for me..)
[05:57] <lamont__> hrm... I wonder if it would be possible to isolate the C2H5 from the OH, and thereby avoid the PH issues that occur with excess C2H5OH intake...
[05:57] <lamont__> that'd make fabbione happy, I expect...
[05:57] <fabbione> jbailey: vodka for me is like garlic for vampires....
[05:58] <jbailey> lamont__: If you can still do chemistry, you need to consume another sample.
[05:58] <lamont__> or maybe jbailey.
[05:58] <lamont__> reminds me of an old rumcake recipe.
[05:58] <fabbione> hmm i am not too much into chem...
[05:58] <fabbione> but that looks like alchool
[05:59] <lamont__> c2h5oh == ethanol
[05:59] <fabbione> close enough ;)
[05:59] <fabbione> last time i opened a chem book was around 14 years ago
[05:59] <lamont__> too much and you change the PH of your blood a bit more than the body likes...  and then there's the aldehydes that are created by the preferred metabolic path for dealing with it.
[06:00] <Kamion> if it's still blood rather than blood-tinted alcohol, you're doing it wrong
[06:01] <fabbione> Kamion: you mean that if you still have spurious traces of blood in the alchool you are not driking enough?=
[06:01] <Kamion> right
[06:02] <lamont__> actually, the highest BAL I've heard of was .55%, which was a _coherent_, angry man in the emergency room one night - he wanted to leave, was quite happy being a little bit drunk
[06:02] <lamont__> very scary
[06:03] <Lathiat> yeh my aunty works in the emergency department
[06:03] <Lathiat> shes had something similar
[06:03] <poningru> um dont you pass out way before that
[06:03] <Lathiat> poningru: not if your a hardcore alcoholic
[06:03] <lamont__> poningru: that's why it was scary
[06:03] <poningru> wow
[06:03] <lamont__> .25 is very serious 'acute poisoning'
[06:03] <Lathiat> get to .7 or so and your dead
[06:03] <poningru> yeah
[06:03] <lamont__> otoh, I don't think this guy's BAL ever got _below_ .20
[06:04] <poningru> how can the liver handle shit like that
[06:04] <poningru> rofl
[06:04] <Lathiat> poningru: it cant, he'll live a short life
[06:04] <lamont__> liver? what liver?
[06:04] <fabbione> cya tomorrow fellas
[06:04] <Lathiat> exactly
[06:04] <lamont__> actually - with extremely high loads like that, the body runs out of the preferred enzyme for digesting alcohol and goes down gentler paths
[06:05] <lamont__> 20 years ago, the treatement for methonol poisoning was IV injection of ethonol
[06:05] <lamont__> now there's a synthetic that has a high affinity for the enzyme, without the intoxicating side effects
[06:06] <lamont__> (the preferred enzyme turns methanol into formaldihyde - which isn't really good for living tissue...)(
[06:06] <Lathiat> heh heh
[06:07] <lamont__> so the really scary part about this guy was that at .55 he was _COHERENT_
[06:07] <Lathiat> yeh
[06:08] <lamont__> hrm... OTOH, that's kinda more off-topic than normal
[06:10] <tsume> why can't ubuntu's kernel load faster on startup like Fedora?
[06:10] <tsume> Loading the kernel for Ubuntu takes _forever_ 2 lines of .'s
[06:11] <tsume> while as I noticed fedora only loads about 6 dots before it starts loading. What is ubuntu building in the kernel which makes it so fat?
[06:12] <Lathiat> anyone with xorg clue about?
[06:12] <Lathiat> xnest is b0rk cus it cant find the fixed font
[06:12] <Lathiat> assumedly it hasnt got an updated config.. wherever it gets that
[06:12] <lamont__> Lathiat: assuming the fixed font is installed on the system....
[06:13] <Lathiat> well, X wont start without it
[06:13] <Lathiat> and my main X is running
[06:13] <lamont__> (to use the technical term)
[06:20] <jbailey> Lathiat: There was a problem with font paths awhile ago that caused startup problems.  Are you maybe seeing the same thing?
[06:20] <tsume> oops
[06:26] <Lathiat> jbailey: i think so but with Xnest as opposed to the main server
[06:26] <mdke> tsume, y0
[06:26] <Lathiat> jbailey: xnest says it has its own font paths in the man page
[06:26] <Lathiat> so i assume its wrong somewhere
[06:26] <mdke> ah np
[06:26] <Lathiat> cant find where but
[06:27] <tsume> mdke: sorry :P
[06:27] <mdke> heh no problem
[06:27] <tsume> mdke: I was going to poke mdz, but hes not here
[06:32] <lamont__> tsume: gotta type _3_ characters before you hit tab... :)
[06:33] <tsume> lamont__: =]  I knoq
[06:33] <lamont__> hehe
[07:10] <cartman> anyone having problems with latest udev on breezy?
[07:10] <cartman> seems like cdrom/dvdrom devices no longer created
[07:26] <hughsie> ogra: ping (got a minute?)
[07:26] <ogra> hughsie, sure
[07:27] <hughsie> ogra: cool, hi. I see mjg59 is about.
[07:27] <hughsie> pitti said anything to you abou tthe daemon?
[07:27] <ogra> hughsie, he wants to look at it if i made a package
[07:28] <hughsie> gotcha.
[07:28] <doko> ogra: how do I close a bug report in malone?
[07:28] <hughsie> mjg59: ping?
[07:28] <ogra> doko, this special case didnt occur to me yet :-P
[07:29] <hughsie> also, ogra, what you guys think of libnotify?
[07:30] <ogra> hughsie, i heard seb128 wanted to package it soon... havent looked at it yet
[07:31] <hughsie> cool, i've just packaged it for FC4
[07:31] <hughsie> reason: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.powermanager.devel/cutoff=266
[07:31] <hughsie> sorry, http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.powermanager.devel/266
[07:33] <ogra> hughsie, looks cool :)
[07:33] <hughsie> ogra: does looking cool justify a new dependency?
[07:34] <ogra> i think so... but i'll have to discuss it with pitti again for the main inclusion then (i guess i'll have to do it anyway since so much changed)
[07:35] <hughsie> sure, thanks. It's pretty modular, so if you start with pmscripts we can work from there
[07:35] <hughsie> but then thats a mjg59 thing
[07:35] <hughsie> PowerManager is a pitti thing...
[07:36] <ogra> yep... main inclusion/security reviews too... libnotify would need a extra review...
[07:36] <hughsie> ogra: sorry :-)
[07:37] <ogra> seb128, do you plan the libnotify package you talked earlier about today for main inclusion ?
[07:38] <ogra> oh, that was libgnomeservice , i muddled it...
[07:38] <ogra> :(
[07:42] <ogra> hey doko you stole my package... i'm just done with the djvulibre testbuild, grrr
[07:42] <hughsie> does ubuntu have an extras equiv? what about putting it in "universe" ?
[07:43] <ogra> hughsie, i cant depend on universe stuff with a package in main... i want g-p-m to be the default interface for our powermanagement... so it must be in main to enter the CD
[07:44] <ogra> ...and its dependencys too
[07:45] <hughsie> ogra: gotcha
[07:45] <hughsie> ogra: nice one
[07:45] <seb128> ogra: I've planed both
[07:45] <ogra> seb128, yay
[07:46] <seb128> libgnomeservice and libnotify
[07:46] <seb128> and probably main both
[07:46] <ogra> great
[07:46] <hughsie> cool
[07:46] <seb128> gnome-applets already has some code for libnotify
[07:46] <ogra> saves me one extra main inclusion report :)
[07:46] <seb128> and maybe gnome-session will use gnomeservice for 2.12
[07:46] <hughsie> gnomeservice... hmmm... somebody got a url
[07:47] <seb128> what about djvulibre?
[07:48] <ogra> seb128, nothing... i'm fiddling on \sh's bug since this morning, every time my pbuilder has some time to build it... now doko just uploaded it.. just some lost time
[07:48] <seb128> bah
[07:48] <seb128> we want a new version for evince
[07:49] <doko> ogra: it was a two character change ...
[07:49] <hughsie> dinner calls, thanks guys.
[07:49] <seb128> if somebody wants to ping the Debian maintainer
[07:49] <ogra> doko, it was ftbfs on amd64
[07:49] <doko> ogra: your bug again ...
[07:49] <ogra> seb128, who ever touched it last ;)
[07:53] <ogra> doko, btw, did you note the watches in 979 ?
[07:58] <doko> ogra: yes, I wondered why I cannot click on it ...
[07:59] <ogra> hmm, yes, you can only edit it... a direct link would be nice
[08:02] <ogra> doko, btw, you can only colse bugs in malone if you're the asignee...
[08:02] <ogra> i just checked
[08:34] <sladen> mako: how the naach do you get a LINX t-shirt?
[08:40] <Mirv> are there many ubuntu people at the debconf currently?
[08:45] <Kamion> Mirv: a fair number, don't know exactly
[08:45] <sladen> Mirv: for some value of 'many' the answer is probably yes
[08:45] <Burgundavia> seb128, ping
[08:45] <seb128> pong
[08:46] <Burgundavia> did a patch get dropped with the new nautilus? My desktop icons showed up again
[08:47] <seb128> since when?
[08:47] <Burgundavia> reboot this morning
[08:47] <seb128> and you have rebooted ... 6 months ago previous time?
[08:47] <Burgundavia> no idea
[08:48] <Burgundavia> 2.11.4, very odd
[08:49] <seb128> not that odd
[08:49] <seb128> but the previous changes are 10 days old or something like that
[08:50] <seb128> have you restarted nautilus for 10 days?
[08:50] <Burgundavia> just installed 2.11.4 yesterday
[08:51] <seb128> yeah, but when have you restarted nautilus before ?
[08:51] <Burgundavia> nope
[08:51] <seb128> is this bug since yesterday, or could it be 10 days old but you have not restarted it before?
[08:52] <Burgundavia> I suspect it is 10 days old
[08:52] <seb128> bah, anyway the new hal code for gnomevfs use /system/storage/ gconf keys
[08:52] <seb128> there is granularity on the volumes to list here
[08:52] <seb128> maybe you want to change these keys with gconf-editor
[08:53] <Burgundavia> I won't bother filing a bug unless I hear about someone else having the issue, cheers
[08:54] <seb128> k
[08:54] <seb128> anyway these keys are new, maybe we want to change some default here
[09:07] <pitti> seb128: how did the cups-hal patch work out?
[09:11] <seb128> pitti: seems to work fine but I've not played a lot with it, just like 1 hour the day we talked about it and I've skiped to other stuff waiting for upstream discussions
[09:15] <Mirv> Kamion/sladen: yes, I just though if any are going to go the Rantasauna tomorrow evening after the Suomenlinna trip
[09:16] <Mirv> (I can't really attend to much anything because of a hectic time at work, but I thought I could drop by at the sauna:)
[09:20] <Mez> sladen's buggered off ~D
[09:34] <\sh> doko: ping
[09:37] <wasabi> Is there a bug someplace to centralize mozilla between firefox and epiphany and whatever?
[09:37] <wasabi> libmozilla or something
[09:38] <\sh> doko: did u use my second debdiff patch? with the gcc4 patch included?
[09:42] <doko> ?
[09:42] <\sh> doko: Jul 12 Matthias Klose  (  49) Accepted djvulibre 3.5.14-5ubuntu2 (source)
[09:42] <\sh> doko: I patched it to work with gcc 4
[09:42] <doko> no, that's just the wrong dependency
[09:42] <\sh> to compile ;)
[09:42] <\sh> doko: it won't compile
[09:43] <\sh> i provided a patch and asked ogra to upload
[09:43] <\sh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12631
[09:45] <\sh> actually I know how busy u guys are at debconf
[09:56] <Kamion> fabbione: there's a parted release coming down the pipe with Mac RAID and LVM support; it beat UVF
[09:57] <Kamion> oh, no, it didn't beat UVF, I'm on crak
[09:57] <Kamion> +c
[09:57] <Kamion> I might ask for an exception for that
[10:03] <Burgundavia> seb128, which is that bug about eject and dragging to the trash?
[10:03] <Burgundavia> seb128, nev mind
[10:26] <jbailey> quit
[10:26] <jbailey> Feh, wrong window
[10:27] <wasabi> Hshs
[10:27] <diamond> jbailey: alan cox spent a bit of time playing with an old gaming headset with motion tracking on it. not _quite_ focus follows eyes, but with a bit of training it could work -)
[10:28] <diamond> (of course, he could still be doing so, but it's much harder to tell since his diary switched to welsh ,-)
[10:28] <jbailey> diamond: Huh, cool.  The tech exists to do it - when I was doing a VR seminar, they were talking about the pilot system in aircrafts noticing when the pilot was looking at and providing context sensitive information on the HUD.
[10:29] <diamond> jbailey: of course you have to remember to do the info display whereever they're looking, otherwise when they glance away to see the info, it all goes away.... -)
[10:29] <diamond> jbailey: would be fun to play with tho
[10:30] <jbailey> Given that the TD bank is apparently about to move their retinal scanners so that you can simply pass through the doorway and not have to look into the machine, it seems probably within easy grasp.
[10:31] <diamond> jbailey: wow. scary stuff.
[10:32] <mdke> you could use your head to move the mouse I suppose
[10:32] <ogra> jbailey, wearing your tinfiol hat again ?
[10:33] <jbailey> ogra: The long hair covers it nicely, don't you think?
[10:33] <ogra> hehe
[10:35] <havoc> jbailey: would have to be a very hi-res webcam
[10:35] <jbailey> havoc: Sure, but how far away are those?  Given that sex and killing people drives the technology envelope, both are likely to have demands for high-res cameras done cheap.
[10:37] <azeem> havoc: are you the famous the-other-havoc from LWN?
[10:38] <havoc> azeem: nope
[10:38] <azeem> ah, ok
[10:38] <havoc> jbailey: sooner or later, yes
[10:40] <seb128> elmo: glib2.0 (experimental) inkscape hardware-monitor meld anjuta syncs please
[10:46] <Simira> dilinger :)
[10:46] <dilinger> i love it when i reboot the wrong machine :)
[10:46] <tsume> all you damn specicist sicken me! :P
[10:49] <poningru> hi I wanted to throw out an idea that this guy came up with
[10:50] <poningru> how about during a dual boot installation giving people the choice of transfering their stuff in windows transfer over to the linux partition
[10:51] <Burgundavia> poningru, they are working on it
[10:51] <poningru> this is ofcourse only for the files in My Documents
[10:51] <poningru> are you serious?
[10:51] <poningru> any docs on that?
[10:51] <Burgundavia> there is spec
[10:51] <Burgundavia> a spec, even
[10:51] <Burgundavia> just a sec
[10:51] <poningru> nice that rimed
[10:52] <Burgundavia> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/MigratingToUbuntu
[10:53] <poningru> ok another suggestion this time mine own
[10:53] <poningru> why not integrate something like a qtparted in the intallation process
[10:54] <ogra> poningru, a version of gparted just gets modified
[10:54] <Burgundavia> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalPartitioningTool
[10:54] <Burgundavia> google bounty
[10:54] <ogra> nope
[10:54] <ogra> thats actually a ubuntu bounty
[10:55] <poningru> hehe
[10:55] <poningru> I guess great minds think alike is true
[10:55] <poningru> ooh High Priority
[10:55] <ogra> it will get integrated into http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress
[10:55] <Burgundavia> ogra, you are right, my bad
[10:56] <daniels> lamont__: pong
[10:56] <Kamion> unfortunately MigratingToUbuntu is a "vote for more money" spec (much as I hate to borrow a phrase from asuffield)
[10:57] <Kamion> a lot of it is very difficult stuff and there's nothing that comes close to an implementation plan
[10:57] <Burgundavia> Kamion, are not all specs a "vote for more money|time" spec?
[10:57] <tsume> `/win 12
[10:58] <Kamion> Burgundavia: no, the specific meaning of that phrase is that one writes down a wishlist for an arbitrary Good Thing without having anyone to implement it or any plan for doing so
[10:58] <ogra> Burgundavia, most of them are "bringmrthisfeature" specs
[10:58] <ogra> s/mr/me/
[10:58] <Kamion> it means you get to point to the spec whenever people bring up the wishlist, but that's about it
[10:58] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:59] <Kamion> which tends to stifle progress because people think somebody's already working on it when they aren't
[10:59] <Burgundavia> true
[11:09] <neiras> Hello - what is the status of usplash? Will it be in Breezy?
[11:10] <lamont__> gives me something to do while I finish downloading the breezy install image
[11:11] <lamont__> doh.  lunchtime. back in a bit
[11:19] <pef> bye !
[11:31] <jbailey> Kamion: The various groups not existing when things think they should is the bug in the installer you were talking about earlier right?
[11:33] <Kamion> jbailey: right
[11:33] <Kamion> jbailey: I'm not at home at the moment so I can't really test the fix
[11:33] <jbailey> Kamion: I have need to install my laptop, can I be your bitch?
[11:33] <Kamion> jbailey: yay for bitches
[11:53] <mdz> lamont,infinity: how goes the backports/tilde battle?  are we ready to light it up?
[11:54] <lamont__> mdz: have been on our side for most of last week
[11:55] <mdz> lamont__: last I heard from elmo was that sbuild/wanna-build needed attention to deal with ~-versions
[11:55] <Kamion> which incidentally is SO WRONG
[11:55] <Kamion> can we purge dpkg from hoary-backports before sending it live? :)
[11:55] <mdz> ...and that dpkg was his test case ;-)
[11:55] <lamont__> -rw-rw-r--  1 archvsync archvsync  607228 Jul  9 00:25 dpkg_1.13.10~hoary1_amd64.deb
[11:55] <lamont__> -rw-rw-r--  1 archvsync archvsync  579154 Jul  7 20:05 dpkg_1.13.10~hoary1_i386.deb
[11:55] <lamont__> -rw-rw-r--  1 archvsync archvsync  609070 Jul  9 00:25 dpkg_1.13.10~hoary1_powerpc.deb
[11:55] <Mitario> mdz, hi :) did you get my message about python-apt?
[11:56] <lamont__> so 3 days ago we uploaded the last 2
[11:56] <mdz> looks like it's there for all architectures
[11:56] <lamont__> but the changes were there on all 12 buildd's on the 7th
[11:56] <mdz> great