[02:49] <mgalvin> hey guys
[02:53] <Burgundavia> salut
[02:53] <Burgundavia> nice patches
[02:54] <mgalvin> thnx
[03:27] <rob^> mgalvin, I haven't filed that bug yet (I was tired, it was 2:30am)
[03:28] <rob^> I'm going to now
[03:31] <mgalvin> rob^, ok, i think cprov said it would be fixed in their next release
[03:31] <rob^> any ideas when that is?
[03:32] <mgalvin> nope, he just said that they were working on it
[03:33] <rob^> ok
[03:36] <rob^> how the heck do you get your password back for the wiki, it says to use Launchpad but that doesnt work
[03:43] <mgalvin> i think you can use the lost password feature and it should give it back to you
[03:44] <mgalvin> the wiki and lanuchpad use the same l/p
[03:44] <mgalvin> same db i think
[03:44] <rob^> yeah tried that, no good
[03:46] <mgalvin> hmm
[03:47] <mgalvin> you tried it from the wiki or from launchpad
[03:48] <rob^> the wiki tells yo to use launchpad, I can log into launchpad fine with the new password, just not the wiki
[03:50] <mgalvin> hmm, then i don't know, i did it a while ago and it had worked then... possibly another problem(possible regression) to discuss on #launchpad i guess
[03:52] <rob^> hmm
[04:20] <jeffsch> jsgotangco!
[04:25] <jsgotangco> hey jeffsch how are you?
[04:26] <jeffsch> ok, i guess. long time no talk eh?
[04:26] <jsgotangco> jeffsch: i finally got to start on the styleguide on the international audience section
[04:26] <jeffsch> awesome!
[04:27] <jeffsch> what's up with the next meeting? is it still on?
[04:27] <jsgotangco> of course
[04:27] <jsgotangco> i'll update the agenda later
[04:27] <jsgotangco> sorry i was quite busy with a client lately
[04:28] <jsgotangco> (we're in the middle of an oracle implementation)
[04:29] <jeffsch> i won't be able to make it anyway. :(
[04:29] <jsgotangco> time?
[04:30] <jsgotangco> you think the 14:00UTC is a good time to make it permanent for regular meetings?
[04:30] <jeffsch> i can't make it the whole day... jury duty and then a class
[04:31] <jsgotangco> whoa jury duty
[04:31] <jsgotangco> :(
[04:32] <jeffsch> it's not so bad.
[04:38] <jsgotangco> whats class are you taking?
[04:40] <jsgotangco> jasoncohen: hello
[04:40] <jasoncohen> hi
[04:40] <jasoncohen> Burgundavia told me to come here. am i too late?
[04:41] <jasoncohen> i assumed there was some discussion or a meeting going on
[04:42] <jsgotangco> hmmm there is a meeting but its not today
[04:42] <jasoncohen> when is it?
[04:42] <jsgotangco> maybe i can help?
[04:42] <jasoncohen> Burgundavia asked me to come here. I'm not sure why., and he appears to be idle now. Perhaps it's due to the wiki pages I've put up recently
[04:43] <jsgotangco> on the 14th at 22:00UTC #ubuntu-meeting
[04:43] <jasoncohen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserGuideMultimedia and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserGuideAddingRepositories
[04:43] <jsgotangco> im putting up a simple agenda later
[04:43] <jsgotangco> oohhh
[04:43] <jasoncohen> is there a problem?
[04:44] <jsgotangco> none :) they are nice wiki pages
[04:44] <jasoncohen> great
[04:45] <jsgotangco> are you interested in joining the docteam?
[04:45] <jasoncohen> i'm always open to suggestions. also, any idea how i could get a decent picture of totem. it just shows blue with all the screenshot programs i've used. i got it to work with xine.
[04:45] <jsgotangco> have you tried imagemagick?
[04:46] <jasoncohen> what kind of commitment does it entail? i like writing up wiki pages to help new users and would be willing to help- just don't want to commit to something that might be too time consuming
[04:46] <jasoncohen> i have a few things going now- working on a project with mythtv and doing a legal research/investigative internship
[04:47] <jsgotangco> well wiki gardening is one of things the team is working on
[04:47] <jsgotangco> cleaning up wiki stuff, etc.
[04:47] <jsgotangco> but not necessarily changing the content
[04:47] <jasoncohen> no, i hadn't tried imagemagick
[04:47] <jasoncohen> i actually was the one who added screenshots and some more description to the repositories howto
[04:48] <jasoncohen> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesHowto
[04:48] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TakingScreenshots
[04:48] <jasoncohen> the desktop pic was from warty and had the wrong instructions for finding synaptic in the menu
[04:48] <jsgotangco> robitaille: hello
[04:49] <jasoncohen> jsgotangco, what else do you guys do?
[04:49] <jsgotangco> jasoncohen: we write in DocBook XML
[04:49] <robitaille> jsgotangco: hi.
[04:49] <jsgotangco> we have our own repository where we maintain our source of ubuntu documents
[04:50] <jasoncohen> cool
[04:50] <robitaille> can someone explain to me what is this page about: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LocalSpellingWords
[04:50] <jsgotangco> jasoncohen: our WIP stuff can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects
[04:52] <jsgotangco> robitaille: weird page
[04:52] <robitaille> oh...I think I have a guess: if you do a spell check, these must be the words that you add to the local directory.
[04:52] <jsgotangco> hmmm but Robos is a guy
[04:53] <jsgotangco> oh right
[04:53] <jeffsch> robitaille: i think it's for the wiki spellchecking feature
[04:53] <jeffsch> it's where the word list is kept, iirc
[04:53] <jsgotangco>  Well What will Windows wish with work working world would writing x86 years
[04:53] <jsgotangco> haha
[04:54] <jsgotangco>  downloaded Hedgehog interested Manager official presented processor Production provided recent
[04:54] <jeffsch> hmmm... sounds like the kind of thing i would write :)
[04:55] <robitaille> jeffsch:  yes it is.  I did a spell check on my wiki page, and added "university" to it just now.   I guess there is no default dictionary, so users have to build one from scratch. 
[04:55] <jeffsch> great. I can'
[04:55] <jeffsch> oops
[04:55] <jasoncohen> jsgotangco, i'm on the phone. i'll be back soon
[04:55] <jeffsch> great, i can't wait until we get words like asdfjkl in there :)
[04:55] <jsgotangco> hehe
[04:56] <robitaille> would it be worth the effort to jumpstart that page and add a long series of words to it?
[04:57] <jeffsch> i wonder if someone could just paste in the wordlist that aspell uses
[04:57] <jsgotangco> sounds fun but you might end up adminstering the dictionary itself
[04:58] <robitaille> the thing I would afraid is how slow the spell check would become if that page contains thousand of entries
[04:59] <jsgotangco> and all those words aren't even accurate to begin with
[05:01] <jeffsch> ok, i gotta run. c ya
[05:02] <jsgotangco> ill brb as well
[07:47] <froud> African Greetings
[08:06] <froud> later dudes, many meetings today :-)
[08:06] <Burgundavia> cya
[08:10] <jsgotangco> hello
[08:11] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I pointed jasoncohen at here
[08:11] <Burgundavia> because I was concerned about duplication of effort
[08:11] <Burgundavia> and mildly concerned about a few docs he had written
[08:12] <jsgotangco> i didnt read the wiki pages in-depth btw
[08:12] <Burgundavia> his new user adding repos advocated using the commandline
[08:12] <Burgundavia> which we should frown upon
[08:12] <Burgundavia> even if it harder for us
[08:13] <robitaille> but but but ...I love the cli :)
[08:13] <Burgundavia> right, my step-mother doesn't
[08:13] <Burgundavia> now sod off
[08:14] <Burgundavia> robitaille, you going to be at vlug tomorrow>
[08:14] <Burgundavia> ?
[08:14] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  probably not.  it seems my wife has plan something else for tomorrow night.  But it's not set in stone yet.  So I may be there...but probably unlikely
[08:14] <Burgundavia> damn
[08:15] <robitaille> it's my fault:  I forgot to tell her that I had something else that night.  
[08:16] <jsgotangco> AddingRepositoriesHowto seems reasonable to me. It tackled synaptic first before going to cli
[08:18] <jsgotangco> the NewUserGuideAddingRepositories page though is very cli oriented
[08:23] <robitaille> jsgotangco: to complete an earlier discussion: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/LocalSpellingWords
[08:23] <robitaille> another proof that this type of spell check in a wiki doesn't really work that well... especially in a mostly German+English wiki
[08:24] <jsgotangco> oh my god those are awesome haha
[08:25] <jsgotangco> about any code create elementary
[08:55] <jsgotangco> brb
[10:41] <jsgotangco> mdke: ping?
[10:44] <mdke> hi
[10:44] <mdke> jsgotangco, sup dude
[10:51] <mdke> gtg
[10:51] <mdke> be back later
[10:51] <Burgundavia> been talking in #gnome-hackers about docs
[10:51] <Burgundavia> good discussion
[10:51] <mdke> jsgotangco, email if its urgent
[11:02] <Burgundavia> morning Kinnison 
[11:03] <Kinnison> hi burgey
[11:03] <Burgundavia> how is my favourite gay englishman?
[11:04] <Burgundavia> I haven't talked to you recently
[11:04] <Kinnison> busy as heck, but fine
[11:04] <Burgundavia> :-(
[11:05] <Kinnison> :-(
[11:05] <Kinnison> But you seem to have a new girlfriend
[11:05] <Burgundavia> same one actually
[11:05] <Kinnison> Aaah
[11:05] <Burgundavia> we have had some stormy times, but are back together again
[11:06] <Burgundavia> read my XP rants, did you?
[11:06] <Kinnison> yeah
[11:06] <Burgundavia> in good news, there will now be an Ubuntu machine at my parents house
[11:07] <Burgundavia> my step-mother is going to switch this wed.
[11:08] <Kinnison> Excellent
[11:08] <Burgundavia> with my brother jumped and my grandparents moving, that leaves only my father left
[11:11] <Burgundavia> I have to sleep, talk to you again
[11:19] <sivang> Kinnison: :-)
[11:19] <Kinnison> hi sivang 
[12:46] <mdke> back
[01:44] <Njal> lo
[01:44] <mdke> hi Njal 
[01:45] <Njal> hows you?
[01:45] <mdke> good thanks, you?
[01:46] <Njal> not so good
[01:46] <mdke> Njal, how come?
[01:46] <Njal> my girlfriend and i have split up
[01:47] <mdke> ah sorry to hear that
[01:47] <Njal> And that on top of the heat and my bad digestive system has resulted in a inability to actually eat without being sick
[01:48] <mdke> oh dear
[01:48] <mdke> seen a doctor?
[01:48] <Njal> yeah there's nothing wrong with me apparently
[01:50] <Njal> anyway i came here to ask if it would be possible to not send any email's to my address for about 3 weeks?
[01:50] <Njal> Im going to be on holiday and wont have access to a PC
[01:51] <mdke> you can disable mail delivery from ubuntu lists using your account preferences
[01:51] <mdke> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
[01:53] <Njal> ah good coz i hate having to spend hours deleting email's it better to just disable email's and spend the time svn uping
[01:54] <mdke> agreed
[02:01] <Njal> ah done
[02:10] <Njal> Um since im working on the gnome terminal bit of the userguide should i include trick's like how to use escape sequences etc?
[02:12] <Njal> ???
[02:12] <jjesse> quick question there is the k menu in kubuntu but in gnome is it called the footprint? or what is it called?
[02:13] <mdke> jjesse, there are three menus, one is applications, one is places, one is system
[02:13] <Njal> the applicattions menu, th place's menu or the system menu i suppose
[02:13] <jjesse> ok thanks mdke and njal
[02:15] <jjesse> working on the k menu portion in the kde userguide and wanted to compare things
[04:02] <mdke> come back!
[04:06] <mdke> i can't seem to apply rob's patches
[04:12] <jjesse> doh
[04:16] <mdke> i suck
[04:16] <jjesse> why now mdke?
[04:16] <mdke> because I never learnt how patches work properly
[04:17] <jjesse> grin me either to be honest
[04:17] <jjesse> we should have a patch class :)
[05:14] <jeffsch> mdke: ping
[05:15] <mdke> yo jeffsch 
[05:15] <jeffsch> here's how I did the patch:
[05:15] <jeffsch> jeff@cloud:~/ubuntu-doc/generic/faqguide/C $ ls -l
[05:15] <jeffsch> total 344
[05:15] <jeffsch> -rw-r--r--  1 jeff jeff   1290 2005-06-30 09:21 faqguide-C.omf
[05:15] <jeffsch> -rw-r--r--  1 jeff jeff 321817 2005-07-10 17:22 faqguide.xml
[05:15] <jeffsch> -rw-r--r--  1 jeff jeff   9128 2005-07-10 17:21 faqguide.xml.diff
[05:15] <jeffsch> -rw-r--r--  1 jeff jeff   3825 2005-07-12 07:57 faqguide.xml.diff7
[05:15] <jeffsch> drwxr-xr-x  3 jeff jeff   4096 2005-05-31 13:30 sample
[05:16] <jeffsch> jeff@cloud:~/ubuntu-doc/generic/faqguide/C $ patch <faqguide.xml.diff7
[05:16] <jeffsch> et voila!
[05:17] <jeffsch> the magic part being "patch <faqguide.xml.diff7"
[05:17] <mdke> hmm
[05:17] <mdke> i wonder why it didn't work for me
[05:17] <mdke> that's what I did :)
[05:17] <jeffsch> what was the error?
[05:17] <mdke> jeffsch, anyhow thanks for doing it!
[05:17] <mdke> jeffsch, i can't remember i'm afraid
[05:22] <jjesse> grin thanks for the class jeffsch
[05:43] <mdke> getting some momentum up on the userguide
[08:47] <mdke> hey froud
[08:48] <mdke> that business about having to follow the section structure even in xpointers is incredibly irritating :D
[08:54] <froud> :-)
[08:55] <mdke> froud, is there no workaround?
[08:55] <froud> bring in nodes individually :-)
[08:56] <mdke> that is what I did, but I want to bring in a sect2 as a sect1
[08:56] <froud> or create an xpath that will bring it in
[09:57] <rwabel> hi
[09:57] <froud> hi
[09:57] <rwabel> I've made some changes on the documentation section in the wiki.
[09:57] <froud> k
[09:57] <rwabel> I've talked with Matt
[09:58] <mdke> hi there rwabel 
[09:58] <rwabel> Matt?
[09:58] <mdke> yus
[09:58] <froud> cool I dont do wiki, ah ther ehe is
[09:58] <rwabel> ahh
[09:58] <mdke> :)
[09:58] <rwabel> I've made changes now
[09:58] <mdke> looking
[09:58] <rwabel> no documents are lost :-) I've rearranget some of them. let me know what u think
[09:59] <mdke> what changes have you made?
[09:59] <rwabel> in the documentation section
[09:59] <mdke> i can't see any differences to UserDocumentation
[09:59] <rwabel> structur
[09:59] <mdke> oh on the FrontPage?
[09:59] <rwabel> right
[10:00] <rwabel> is that not ok?
[10:00] <mdke> rwabel, its better not to edit the Frontpage, and make the amendments on the UserDocumentation page
[10:00] <rwabel> ah ok
[10:00] <rwabel> in my opinion it's already that part who needs get changed
[10:00] <mdke> which part?
[10:00] <rwabel> mh where can I ask about that
[10:01] <mdke> about what?
[10:01] <rwabel> well the problem is that the the documentation section, in my opinion, is already kinda badly
[10:01] <rwabel> that's why I've changed. And I've put the links from UserDocumentation in different sections
[10:01] <mdke> rwabel, i agree, but you should work on the documentation section, rather than the FrontPage
[10:02] <mdke> rwabel, the FrontPage pointed clearly to the UserDocumentation page, to allow people to follow that link if they are looking for documentation
[10:02] <rwabel> ok, I thought it would be ok. in the forum I've posted my idea about the FrontPage part
[10:02] <rwabel> Ok, I'll undo it...but where can I ask about to make FrontPage changes
[10:03] <mdke> rwabel, you can ask us
[10:03] <rwabel> :-)
[10:03] <mdke> we have had months of discussing the wiki structure on our list
[10:04] <rwabel> and that was the final structure?
[10:04] <mdke> Yes
[10:04] <rwabel> oh, ok what a pity :-(
[10:04] <rwabel> because I think also other users don't like it's structure
[10:05] <rwabel> I can remember when I came first there...honestly I've left after some seconds
[10:05] <mdke> rwabel, I agree that the structure of the wiki is bad, but this needs to be addressed not only on the Frontpage: this frontpage points to the documentation section, _that_ is what needs to be edited IMO
[10:05] <rwabel> well I've only looked at the documentation section.
[10:05] <mdke> you have removed the link to the UserDocumentation page, which should be the basic starting point for documentation
[10:06] <rwabel> no it should all be back again
[10:06] <mdke> i like the links you've made, but i think that they should be on the UserDocumentation page
[10:06] <mdke> what do you think?
[10:07] <rwabel> you mean my part * ["Newbie"]  - New to Ubuntu & Linux
[10:07] <rwabel>  * ["Kubuntu"]  - Here you can find all documentation concerning Kubuntu, Ubuntu with the KDE desktop!
[10:07] <rwabel>  * ["Installation"]  - Installing, updating & maintaining Ubuntu
[10:07] <rwabel>  * HardwareDrivers - Howto's to get hardware and drivers to work
[10:07] <rwabel>  * ["Software"]  - Howto's to get software to work
[10:07] <rwabel>  * [http://www.ubuntuguide.org/ Unoffical Ubtunuguide (might have some errors!)] 
[10:07] <mdke> yes
[10:07] <rwabel> well why not...but all information would be in my part already
[10:07] <mdke> what users have a problem with is not the structure of the FrontPage, it is with the structure of the wiki in general
[10:07] <rwabel> I mean:
[10:08] <rwabel> #
[10:08] <rwabel> Amongst a lot of other pages in the documentation section, you can find:
[10:08] <rwabel>     *
[10:08] <rwabel>       HowToGetHelp - this page lists all the various resources available to you, to find help with your Ubuntu system! Make sure you check this page if you have a problem!
[10:08] <rwabel>     *
[10:08] <rwabel>       GettingUbuntu - How to get a copy of Ubuntu
[10:08] <rwabel>     *
[10:08] <rwabel>       Accessibility - docs related to accessibility
[10:08] <rwabel>     *
[10:08] <rwabel>       HardwareSupport and SupportedArchitectures - Check if your hardware works with Ubuntu
[10:08] <rwabel>     *
[10:08] <rwabel>       FrequentlyAskedQuestions and [WWW]  FAQ database
[10:08] <rwabel>     *
[10:08] <rwabel>       [WWW]  Glossary
[10:08] <mdke> rwabel, i can see the page, you don't have to paste it
[10:08] <rwabel> this stuff I've put in, what is in my opinion where it fits
[10:09] <mdke> basically users go to the wiki, and they see the link to UserDocumentation, they click on it, they find a mess. This is the real problem we have right now
[10:09] <rwabel> I just think, that when someone new comes to the wiki. it would be great for him to see ah something for newusers, ah information about installation
[10:09] <mdke> if you insert your material into the UserDocumentation page, i think that will be a great improvement
[10:09] <mdke> i agree with you
[10:09] <mdke> we just disagree on where to put it
[10:10] <rwabel> right :-)
[10:10] <rwabel> I just could as you told me my parts in the UserDocumentation page. And it would already be a great improvement
[10:10] <mdke> I think so
[10:10] <mdke> then we can work on making the Frontpage more clearly point to UserDocumentation
[10:11] <rwabel> ok
[10:11] <mdke> so that the UserDocumentation page provides a central point for all documentation related matters
[10:12] <rwabel> ok, give me some minutes and I'll present it...then we can look at the result again :-)
[10:12] <mdke> sure
[10:13] <mdke> i've added a sentence to make it clear that UserDocumentation is the central point for Documentation
[10:13] <rwabel> how about the result now?
[10:14] <rwabel> oh and we could also add the forum wiki delta on the UserDocumentation
[10:14] <mdke> hmm
[10:14] <mdke> you've removed all the other links!
[10:14] <rwabel> right
[10:14] <rwabel> they are all in undersections
[10:15] <mdke> all?
[10:15] <rwabel> yes
[10:15] <mdke> that's not quite true
[10:15] <rwabel> no?
[10:15] <rwabel> which one is missing?
[10:16] <mdke> the external documents are missing for example
[10:16] <mdke> rwabel, don't you think it would be better for you to add links and preserve the existing ones?
[10:16] <mdke> fast change like this can be disconcerting for other people
[10:16] <rwabel> external docuements should be there
[10:17] <rwabel> they are under newbie
[10:17] <rwabel> I agree, that it's a big change for people
[10:17] <mdke> [10:17] <mdke>  * [http://www.debian.org/doc/ Debian documentation index] 
[10:17] <mdke>  * [http://www.debian.org/doc/user-manuals Debian Documentation Project Users' Manuals] 
[10:17] <mdke>  * [http://www.togaware.com/linux/survivor/ GNU/Linux Desktop Survival Guide] 
[10:18] <mdke> ?
[10:18] <mdke> ah i see them
[10:18] <rwabel> for me the UserDocumentation was a mess. That's why I thought to have some categories would be great.
[10:19] <mdke> i like the structure you've given
[10:19] <rwabel> Especially as the content grows and grow it would be overloaded
[10:19] <rwabel> thanks
[10:19] <mdke> but couldn't the categories be on the UserDocumentation page as subheadings?
[10:19] <mdke> that way people can search one page, instead of having to check all the subpages
[10:20] <mdke> what do you think?
[10:20] <rwabel> you mean instead of the 5 links I've made to have them all on the UserDocumentation site?
[10:20] <mdke> yes, with headings like == Hardware/Drivers ==
[10:20] <mdke> what do you think?
[10:20] <rwabel> wouldn't it get overloaded?
[10:21] <mdke> i don't think so
[10:21] <mdke> it has a number of advantages
[10:21] <rwabel> I mean imagine having 20 howto's in software and 20 in hardware and then also the others getting bigger
[10:21] <mdke> 1. people can search for what they are looking for on one single page, rather than having to search multiple subpages
[10:21] <rwabel> that's true
[10:21] <mdke> 2. it will be easier to convince people to add links for new documents in one page, rather than having to explain a complicated structure to everyone
[10:22] <mdke> i think it would be really cool
[10:22] <rwabel> you are right, it's kinda the smarter way
[10:22] <rwabel> okay let me do that
[10:22] <mdke> :))
[10:22] <mdke> thanks for your work and energy
[10:23] <rwabel> your welcome
[10:28] <rwabel> done
[10:29] <mdke> that looks great
[10:29] <rwabel> maybe we could write some text under each heading. would make it better. let me try
[10:30] <mdke> I will do some editing on it too later, but I won't change the structure, which I like
[10:30] <mdke> i think i would change the heading levels down one, e.g. change = to == and == to [10:31] <mdke> that way each main section will be divided by a line, but the subsections won't be
[10:33] <rwabel> cool. I'll finish my part in about 10 or 15 minutes lately. Then it's time to watch some divx :-) I'll check your changes later
[10:33] <rwabel> thanks for help
[10:33] <mdke> no problem
[10:34] <mdke> rwabel, are you subscribed to the docteam mailing list?
[10:34] <mdke> i will send an email out later and other people on the "wiki team" can discuss and help out
[10:35] <rwabel> yes I've done that this afternoon
[10:42] <mdke> great
[10:43] <rwabel> finished! :-)
[10:43] <rwabel> cu
[10:45] <mdke> rwabel, great thanks, stay in touch!
[10:45] <mdke> we're always here
[10:47] <mdke> rwabel, i've made a change to the headings as I said above, let me know if you don't like it
[10:47] <rwabel> oko
[10:47] <rwabel> i'll just look at it
[10:49] <rwabel> first didn't see the difference. but it looks good
[10:50] <mdke> ok cool
[10:51] <rwabel> I think that was a good update. Next we need to import things from the forum wiki delta in the sections. is that ok?
[10:52] <mdke> rwabel, the things from the forum section should be imported first into the main section of the wiki as new pages, we can add links to such pages in UserDocumentation
[10:54] <rwabel> which new page? on the FrontPage?
[10:55] <mdke> erm
[10:56] <rwabel> for me it doesn't matter where to put software and hardware howto's, as long as there is a place :-)
[10:56] <mdke> if there is a useful howto that comes into the forum/wiki delta, the aim is to make a new page for it and make links to it in the Documentation page
[10:56] <mdke> do you follow me?
[10:57] <rwabel> no really
[10:57] <rwabel> if I've a howto
[10:57] <rwabel> I'll put it in the forum/wiki delta
[10:57] <rwabel> that's ok
[10:57] <rwabel> and then?
[10:57] <mdke> then the howto is put into a page on the main wiki
[10:58] <mdke> and we make links to it in the documentation section
[10:58] <rwabel> who put the howto in the page on the main wiki? and when?
[10:58] <rwabel> where is that page in the main wiki?
[10:58] <mdke> rwabel, let me explain
[10:58] <mdke> let's use an example
[10:59] <mdke> rwabel, for example, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum/hardware/ndiswrapper
[10:59] <mdke> that page contains useful information from the forum
[10:59] <mdke> the main wiki contains a page about ndiswrapper
[10:59] <mdke> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToSetUpNdiswrapper)
[11:00] <mdke> what we can do is to take the information from the first page and include it into the second page
[11:00] <mdke> rwabel, do you follow me?
[11:00] <rwabel> yes
[11:00] <rwabel> and how do I know that there is already such apage
[11:01] <rwabel> the problem is that there is no list ?
[11:01] <mdke> you use the search facility
[11:01] <mdke> for example, I typed "ndiswrapper" into the search box
[11:01] <mdke> another example would be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum/hardware/lucent and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WinModemLucent
[11:02] <mdke> in that example, I typed "lucent" into the search box
[11:02] <rwabel> ok
[11:02] <rwabel> can I ask you a mean question
[11:02] <mdke> go ahead
[11:02] <rwabel> whoever has made the WinModemLucent howto for example
[11:03] <rwabel> why didn't he put his link somewhere
[11:03] <rwabel> I mean there must be now tones of "lost" pages
[11:03] <mdke> rwabel, yes, this is the problem we face on the wiki: the main job we have to do is to find documents and make links. The search facility helps
[11:04] <rwabel> and we can put the links in our UserDocumentation
[11:04] <mdke> yes :)
[11:05] <mdke> and also it is important to give the pages the Category of "Documentation", that way they appear on the page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryDocumentation
[11:05] <rwabel> when I'm doing a howto, about sth new, should I then do it in the forum wiki or directly under wiki.ubuntu.com/xxx
[11:05] <mdke> directly
[11:05] <rwabel> ah ok
[11:06] <rwabel> and if one of us gets bored, he can search for pages which aren't in the CategoryDocumentation
[11:06] <mdke> rwabel, exactly :)
[11:06] <rwabel> and who is allowed for example to move pages..an example:
[11:07] <rwabel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum/software/GnomeLaunchBox
[11:07] <rwabel> should it get first approved?
[11:07] <rwabel> then I've or someone has to move it to
[11:07] <rwabel> wiki.ubuntu.com/GnomeLaunchBox
[11:07] <rwabel> and of course put the CategoryDocumentation
[11:08] <mdke> no if you think it is suitable, and there is no page which deals with that topic, you can move it. But before moving any page, it is important to check that no links will break
[11:09] <mdke> in the case of forum/software/GnomeLaunchBox, there is only one link that needs to be fixed, on the forum/software page
[11:09] <rwabel> how to check? I mean I do know my pages but what about pages from others
[11:09] <mdke> rwabel, you can easily check which pages have links, by clicking on the title of the page. try it with the UserDocumentation page
[11:10] <mdke> it should take you to: Full Text Search: "linkto:"UserDocumentation""
[11:10] <rwabel> right
[11:10] <rwabel> and what shall I then do? I mean I can't move then the page?
[11:11] <rwabel> or just changed on the other page the link
[11:11] <mdke> if the page has links, you rename/move it and then fix the links :)
[11:11] <mdke> yes
[11:11] <rwabel> cool
[11:12] <rwabel> so we shoulnd't put CategoryDocumentation tag before moving from forum wiki delta
[11:12] <rwabel> it makes life easier later :-)
[11:12] <mdke> i agree
[11:13] <rwabel> so, I've learned a lot and we've accomplished quit a bit
[11:13] <mdke> yeah :D
[11:13] <rwabel> In the next days I'll put links from howto's from the CategoryDocumentation in the UserDocumentation
[11:13] <rwabel> and also some of my howto's
[11:14] <mdke> cool
[11:14] <rwabel> oh and subcategories should also be done in software and hardware on the UserDocumentation
[11:14] <rwabel> I hope I'll find some time...next days are finally warm !
[11:14] <mdke> ;)
[11:14] <mdke> where abouts do you come from?
[11:14] <rwabel> Switzerland
[11:15] <mdke> where in particular?
[11:15] <rwabel> Bern
[11:15] <mdke> ah cool
[11:15] <rwabel> mhh I guess I should update my Personalpage :-)
[11:15] <mdke> ;)
[11:15] <rwabel> and u? where from uk?
[11:15] <mdke> yes
[11:15] <mdke> ah sorry
[11:15] <mdke> london
[11:16] <mdke> one thing I think we should consider changing on UserDocumentation is the category "Newbie". The problem is that that categorisation uses a different sort of classification from the others (installation, software, hardware).
[11:17] <rwabel> mhh explain :-)
[11:18] <rwabel> what kind of different categorisation
[11:18] <mdke> well if you make a categorisation between new users and old users, it is a different scheme of classification than between types of documentation (hardware, software etc). This leads to overlap between the sections. But let me think about it because i agree that it is important to have a section which explains what Ubuntu is and how it works
[11:19] <mdke> i'll try a quick edit now to explain what I mean
[11:24] <rwabel> btw, I don't know if you understand a bit french. But I like the french version of the newbi wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu-fr.org/nouveaux_venus
[11:24] <mdke> yeah that's nice
[11:24] <rwabel> we should also have some information about synaptic, the system etc
[11:25] <rwabel> it's astonishing how good the wiki are in french and german. I've to admit that normally the english wiki is the best one with the most information...but here :-)
[11:25] <mdke> where's the german one?
[11:26] <mdke> ok I've rearranged some sections and I've tried to make the structure a bit cleaner. Let me know what you think: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation?action=show
[11:27] <rwabel> http://www.ubuntu-de.org/portal.php
[11:27] <rwabel> I love their icons
[11:28] <mdke> ah they've moved to that already
[11:28] <rwabel> they have many good newbie howto...stuff I don't care normally...but it would be good to have them for the newbies
[11:28] <rwabel> moved to what?
[11:28] <mdke> their new website
[11:29] <mdke> its really nice
[11:29] <rwabel> they have a different wiki system I guess
[11:29] <mdke> their website uses phpBB
[11:29] <mdke> i don't know about the wiki software
[11:30] <mdke> anyway its good stuff
[11:31] <rwabel> the whole website is more userfriendly...I hope people achieve to change the wiki UI a bit
[11:32] <mdke> no the UI will not change I'm afraid
[11:32] <mdke> but we can change the content and make it easier to find material
[11:33] <mdke> don't forget that the wiki is mainly a place for people to brainstorm. It is not static or official documentation
[11:33] <rwabel> that's true...but mainly the best and only good documentation
[11:34] <rwabel> btw once I need to learn how to use pictures and icons in a webpage
[11:34] <mdke> in a wiki page or a webpage?
[11:35] <rwabel> wiki
[11:35] <rwabel> on a webpage it's easy
[11:35] <mdke> ok
[11:35] <mdke> the instructions are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnActions/AttachFile
[11:35] <mdke> you can find our Icons on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconsPage
[11:36] <rwabel> and how can I upload a file. it's said only by administrators
[11:37] <mdke> no anyone can upload
[11:38] <mdke> you click on More Actions/Attachments
[11:38] <mdke> it is all explained in that page
[11:38] <mdke> rwabel, so what do you think of my changes to UserDocumentation?
[11:39] <mdke> rwabel, btw all icons should be uploaded to IconsPage. Screenshots can be uploaded to the page where they are needed
[11:39] <rwabel> it's much better
[11:39] <mdke> ah great
[11:40] <mdke> i still need to work on the "Other Documentation" bit
[11:40] <rwabel> yeah, these ones are tough
[11:41] <rwabel> btw if you like you can check out my blog from time to time http://ralph-wabel.net
[11:42] <rwabel> now it's time for watching some series...by head got a lot of information today :-)
[11:42] <mdke> i will bookmark your blog
[11:42] <rwabel> :-)
[11:42] <mdke> thanks a lot for your help and efforts
[11:42] <rwabel> your welcome
[11:42] <rwabel> cu
[11:42] <mdke> bye
[12:03] <mdke> ah rwabel if you get this message: when you edit wiki pages, please remember to insert a comment about your changes
[12:03] <mdke> it makes it easier to see what is going on in RecentChanges