[03:23] <oz_> hi all - I'm trying to work out which packages I need to do some java-gnome dev. Do I really need gcc 4 with libgtk2-java?
[03:23] <jbailey> oz_: The VM we use by default is gij, which is a component of gcc.
[03:24] <jbailey> gcj (used to make native versions of Java packages) might bring in gcc.
[03:24] <jbailey> ecj (the best .class -> .java compiler we have) shouldn't, though.
[03:25] <oz_> does the sun jvm work ok?
[03:25] <jbailey> No idea.  Not on my system, which is a powerpc.
[03:25] <jbailey> It generally ought to, though.
[03:25] <jbailey> You might find your best luck with the blackdown jvm, which I think is in multiverse now.
[03:26] <oz_> ah-
[03:30] <oz_> is there a way to avoid installing gcc 4.  synaptic want's to uninstall gcc 3.x  which I think will cause pain...  
[03:30] <oz_> do I just have to build from sources?
[03:32] <jbailey> What release of Ubuntu are you using?
[03:32] <oz_> 5.04
[03:32] <jbailey> Which piece of gcc-3 is it trying to uninstall?
[03:33] <jbailey> (And blackdown wasn't in the April release, I remember now)
[03:34] <oz_> gcc-3.5-base
[03:38] <wasabi> How did blackdown get in multiverse?
[03:38] <wasabi> Canonical accepted the license? hah.
[03:49] <jbailey> wasabi: I think it's in.  sabdfl didn't seem concerned about the problematic clause.
[03:52] <wasabi> Mine as well bundle Sun's then
[03:52] <wasabi> THey are the same.
[03:53] <wasabi>                 Sun Microsystems, Inc.
[03:53] <wasabi>              Binary Code License Agreement
[03:53] <wasabi>                      for the
[03:53] <wasabi> JAVATM 2 SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT KIT (J2SDK), STANDARD EDITION,
[03:53] <wasabi>                  VERSION 1.4.2_X
[03:53] <wasabi> Same exacty license.
[03:53] <wasabi> Blackdown doesn't really serve much of a useful purpose anymore. I think the original idea was to be THE Linux port, but as Sun did it themselves...
[03:53] <wasabi> Pretty much it just introduces an entire new class of crashes heh
[03:53] <jbailey> Right.
[03:54] <jbailey> Well, also given that blackdown is pretty slow about producing new ports.
[03:54] <wasabi> Well, if he doesn't have a problem with that, he won't have a problem with Suns.
[03:54] <jbailey> Tell you what - I don't really want to think about it. =)
[03:54] <wasabi> haha
[03:54] <jbailey> The whole thing gives me the heeby-jeebies.
[03:55] <wasabi> What is that?
[03:55] <jbailey> Apache's VM
[03:55] <wasabi> Psssh.
[03:55] <oz_> harmony
[03:55] <jbailey> That's the one.
[03:55] <wasabi> Unless they get a code confusion they are in the same boat as us.
[03:55] <wasabi> In fact they'll probably just end up contributing to Classpath
[03:56] <jbailey> Right, I think that's the idea.
[03:56] <jbailey> And that the result can get certified.
[03:56] <jbailey> It's the certified result that's the important part.
[03:56] <wasabi> Hmm. WHere did you read this about the sabfdl?
[03:56] <jbailey> It was a conversation in a /msg between he and I.
[03:56] <wasabi> iii) you do not distribute
[03:56] <wasabi> additional software intended to replace any component(s) of the
[03:56] <wasabi> Software (unless otherwise specified in the applicable README
[03:56] <wasabi> file)
[03:56] <jbailey> And he's also spoken to elmo about it.
[03:56] <jbailey> Right.
[03:57] <jbailey> His view was something like none of the Free VMs are intended to replace.
[03:57] <jbailey> Suppliment, sure, sit along side.
[03:57] <wasabi> Haha tell that to the people who wrote them.
[03:57] <jbailey> And also that the non-Free VM could conflict against the Free VMs so that they just were never installed side by each.
[03:58] <wasabi> Well, I'm just worried about this one. I'd like to have a public discussion about it.
[03:58] <jbailey> Like I said, I just want to step away from it slowly.  I'd be happiest if a lawyer said 'yeah, sure', but if it makes it in, then it also made it past elmo, who's more paranoid than I.
[04:37] <wasabi> jbailey, if I wanted to get some talk about this going, how would I?
[04:37] <wasabi> I suspect the tech board or something
[04:42] <jbailey> Including the Sun JVM rather than the blackdown one?
[04:44] <wasabi> I'd just like to know how the license was "rationalized.
[04:44] <wasabi> I'm curious.
[04:45] <wasabi> Since no other distributer ever has come to that conclusion. hehe.
[04:45] <jbailey> Is it actually in the archive now?
[04:45] <wasabi> Naw.
[04:45] <wasabi> I don't see it.
[04:45] <jbailey> Then probably there was another round of nervousness.
[04:46] <wasabi> Heh.
[04:48] <oz_> wasabi: have a look at http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-8651.html
[04:49] <wasabi> Heh, why?
[04:49] <wasabi> That's almost a year old.
[04:50] <oz_> I don't think the licence has changed since then
[04:50] <wasabi> It hasn't. But that's not related to the current convo about the sabfdl.
[04:50] <oz_> 6 Months old
[04:52] <jbailey> wasabi: Unfortnuetaly, the conversation is in the logs I lost when I wiped my homedir back in February.
[04:53] <wasabi> These people are just ignoring the license in backports.
[04:53] <wasabi> What tools.
[04:53] <wasabi> They didn't even read it.
[04:53] <wasabi> Or read it and dismissed it.
[04:55] <wasabi> I guess it's not exactly my business... it just bugs me.
[04:55] <wasabi> I'd rather they go through the same hell we do so they'll promote free java. ;0
[05:31] <oz_> I don't suppose anyone could help out with a "ListenerDelegate.create failure" using glade and sun 1.5 jdk?
[05:31] <wasabi> java-gnome?
[05:31] <wasabi> newp.
[05:31] <oz_> java-gtk..
[05:57] <oz_> Can you guys suggest which gcj version to install? gcj- 3.3.x, 3.4.x or 4.0?
[05:57] <wasabi> 4.0
[05:57] <oz_> thanks
[05:58] <oz_> do you know what version of java it supports (roughly)
[05:58] <wasabi> That's not a very good question.
[05:59] <wasabi> Mostly because it really doesn't.
[05:59] <wasabi> I'm sure there are missing pieces from java 1
[05:59] <wasabi> Swing barely works, but sort of.
[05:59] <oz_> yeah - I kinda gathered that..
[05:59] <wasabi> But it does run Eclipse.
[05:59] <wasabi> So it has that amount of API coverage.
[06:00] <oz_> I'm just trying to get some gnome understanding - so i'm building the latest java-gnome java-gtk etc.
[06:01] <oz_> I was just interested in whether it had support for generics enhanced for loops etc .etc
[06:02] <wasabi> Almost.
[06:04] <oz_> Thanks
[08:03] <oz_> sorry to be a pain - I'm trying to build libgtk-java-2.6.2 from source _but_.. 
[08:03] <oz_> I get an error: checking for gtk+-2.0 >= 2.6.0... Package gtk+-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path.
[08:04] <oz_> Do you guys know what it's looking for?
[08:15] <wasabi> libgtk something
[08:15] <wasabi> -dev
[08:17] <oz_> hrmm... i was hoping that wasn't it: another 16 packages and a 55 MB download
[08:20] <oz_> I can't believe how difficult and frustrating this has all been. But hey - thanks for the help and info.
[08:26] <oz_> thanks guys - later