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[01:13] <Simira> hi JaneW 
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[01:43] <JaneW> Hi Simira
[01:43] <JaneW> how's the new home?
[01:47] <Simira> JaneW : temporarily... luckily. I'm currently on Debconf in Helsinki, though.
[01:55] <JaneW> cool, how's it going?
[01:55] <Simira> JaneW : exciting... some don't like ubuntu as much as others, but there's a lot of cool people.
[01:55] <Simira> and really, really warm
[01:59] <JaneW> warm here today too - 27 degs (and it's mid winter!)
[02:00] <Simira> yay... but you're supposed to be used to it. It's about 30 here, I think. Maybe a couple degrees colder today. And I'm in Northern europe... eww...
[02:01] <Treenaks> hm, and here in The Netherlands it's only 26
[02:02] <smurfix> you should move this discussion to #ubuntu-weather ;)
[02:02] <Treenaks> smurfix: it's not like there's much discussion going on anyway
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[03:42] <JanC> Simira : I got some feedback from debconf by Luk Claes & Danny Cautaert
[03:42] <JanC> mainly about mosquitos, bad food, saunas & estonian alcohol
[03:42] <JanC> ;-)
[03:43] <Treenaks> JanC: Luk Claes.. family of yours? :)
[03:43] <JanC> nope, he has no "y"  :)
[03:43] <Treenaks> JanC: all those Belgian names look the same to me :P
[03:43] <Simira> JanC : sounds just like it, yes
[03:43] <JanC> but he's a co-member of LugWV.be  :)
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[09:48] <\sh> evening ladies & gentlemen
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[09:59] <\sh> 1 minute
[09:59] <Kamion> I pinged Keybuk; neither mdz nor sabdfl seem to be on-line at the moment
[09:59] <Kamion> all are at Debconf, I think
[09:59] <\sh> no problem 
[10:00] <\sh> I only want to discuss wine packages
[10:00] <dholbach> getting drunk, presumably
[10:00] <\sh> that's also ok...I'm doing the same..
[10:00] <\sh> but not now..after the meeting
[10:01] <\sh> dholbach: but u r there...this is really good..
[10:01] <zul> isnt it only 20:00
[10:01] <\sh> 20:00 utc
[10:01] <doko> hmm, I think they left for the hotel or a restaurant
[10:01] <zul>  /topic says its at 22:00
[10:02] <dholbach> \sh: are any of my actions required?
[10:02] <Mez> erm
[10:02] <Mez> arent we like..
[10:02] <\sh> dholbach: I want to have a opinion
[10:02] <Mez> 2 hours early ?
[10:02] <Mez> Tue Jul 12 20:02:20 UTC 2005
[10:02] <\sh> Tuesday 12 July 2005 at 2000 UTC
[10:02] <\sh> webpage
[10:02] <Mez>  Tue 12 July 22:00 UTC: Tech Board -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda 
[10:02] <Mez> topic
[10:02] <Kamion> oh, great, the topic here disagrees with the wiki
[10:02] <\sh> TechnicalBoardAgenda
[10:02] <\sh> fck
[10:03] <\sh> again
[10:03] <Kamion> the wiki says 2000 UTC
[10:03] <\sh> yeah
[10:03] <Kamion> this business of maintaining information in two places is mad
[10:03] <\sh> we need exchange
[10:03] <\sh> I think
[10:03] <Mez> lol
[10:03] <\sh> or notes
[10:04] <\sh> ok....22 UTC back here...don't get drunk guys *hicks*
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[10:05] <pitti> Hi
[10:05] <dholbach> hi pitti
[10:05] <\sh> hey pitti...
[10:07] <\sh> pitti: tell mark, beer is to expensive at .fi
[10:07] <pitti> \sh: the problem is, it isn't...
[10:07] <\sh> what?
[10:07] <pitti> too expensive
[10:07] <\sh> when I was the last time...oh well
[10:07] <\sh> .se != .fi then
[10:08] <\sh> or I have the wrong job ;)
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[10:27] <sistpoty> Hi all
[10:28] <siretart> hi folks!
[10:28] <sistpoty> doko: are you online?
[10:29] <doko> no
[10:29] <sistpoty> g
[10:29] <sistpoty> dholbach said, I can bother you about java-package?
[10:29] <ogra> doko, so how is the tibook behaving in the saun ?
[10:29] <ogra> sauna
[10:29] <dholbach> sistpoty: he wants to have a new java-package synced from debian, because our's doesn't work
[10:30] <dholbach> oops, doko ^^
[10:30] <sistpoty> exactly
[10:30] <doko> which one?
[10:30] <sistpoty> "java-package" itself ;)
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[10:31] <sistpoty> bug-report is here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=313555, seems to be fixed in debian
[10:32] <doko> I don't mind. universe isn't frozen, isn't it?
[10:32] <dholbach> oh, it's a universe package
[10:33] <ogra> doko, it is :(
[10:33] <dholbach> sistpoty: ask your favourite motu to sync it, if doko's happy :)
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[10:34] <sistpoty> that's why i asked in #motu at first ;)
[10:34] <dholbach> seb128: Sb! :)
[10:35] <seb128> dholbach: grumpf, my eth0 card just broke
[10:35] <dholbach> seb128: oh :((
[10:35] <seb128> dholbach: after some reboot I figured that's probably not a software issue and changed it ...
[10:36] <siretart> dholbach: I don't get the "ask your favourite motu to sync it" part, may a motu upload "plain" and "unmodified" debian packages (java-package in this case) or shall we still append the -1ubuntu1 anyway?
[10:36] <pitti> siretart: no, please don't. Just ask elmo to sync it
[10:36] <dholbach> siretart: ah ok, yes, what pitti said
[10:36] <ogra> siretart, just asking elmo for a sync from debian
[10:36] <pitti> siretart: never upload a -ubuntuN package if you didn't actually do changes
[10:37] <Mez> pitti: just a XbuildY? 
[10:37] <\sh> -DbuildN is ok
[10:37] <ogra> siretart, but we're in UVF, so if the upstream version changed you need mdz/Kamion approval
[10:37] <pitti> yep
[10:37] <pitti> ogra: certainly not for universe
[10:37] <\sh> what now?
[10:37] <ogra> pitti, for universe too
[10:37] <\sh> anybody knows something else
[10:37] <ogra> sadly
[10:37] <\sh> weired
[10:38] <pitti> ogra: hrm?
[10:38] <pitti> that's new to me...
[10:38] <siretart> pitti: ok. this is how I understood it so far.
[10:38] <ogra> pitti, UVF is for the whole distro now
[10:38] <pitti> ogra: D'oh
[10:38] <dholbach> ogra: i don't recall hard UVF for universe in the last talk with kamion and you
[10:38] <ogra> pitti, Kamion told me the other day
[10:38] <dholbach> ogra: and surely they don't want to be pestered for every little change in universe
[10:39] <ogra> dholbach, what do you think we talked about then ?
[10:39] <seb128> pitti: does elmo actually do syncs this week ? :)
[10:39] <siretart> well, I don't think that every package should be subject to UVF. java-package e.g. in not that likley to have regression. it is really constantly improving and it is (usually) really worth having the latest version around
[10:39] <dholbach> ogra: we talked about a freeze in universe, yes, but the timing was different, afaik
[10:39] <pitti> seb128: he's here, if you ask him, he probably will
[10:39] <seb128> pitti: I've asked 2-3 times yesterday on #ubuntu-devel he just ignored me :p
[10:40] <seb128> lemme try again
[10:40] <pitti> seb128: mailing might be actually better
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[10:40] <seb128> pitti: yeah, maybe
[10:40] <ogra> dholbach, we talked about UVF and i dont remeber we talked about a different date wrt universe/main, but we can ask Kamion later :)
[10:40] <dholbach> ogra: what was the "one week before release" part about?
[10:40] <ogra> huh ?
[10:41] <ogra> dholbach, lets just wait for Kamion, i dont know what you mean with "one week before release" part...
[10:41] <dholbach> yeah
[10:41] <dholbach> let's talk about it in the meeting
[10:43] <ogra> so put it on the agenda...
[10:43] <dholbach> yes master
[10:43] <ogra> heh
[10:43] <siretart> ;)
[10:45] <Simira> seb128 : elmo is on debconf
[10:45] <seb128> Simira: I know, thanks :)
[10:46] <Mez> ogra: I cant get in touch with jdong - should I still put backports on the agenda?
[10:46] <ogra> hmm
[10:47] <ogra> Mez, what about the other backporters ?
[10:48] <siretart> how many backporters are there at all? and who?
[10:48] <Mez> erm
[10:49] <Mez> there's 4 or 5
[10:49] <Mez> me, jdong, slomo, and Mike Basinger
[10:49] <Mez> and one who's on hols
[10:49] <Mez> siretart, did you get my email?
[10:49] <siretart> Mez: yes, I did. mom
[10:50] <siretart> Mez: did you upload your key to a keyserver?
[10:50] <Mez> er, not yet I dont think
[10:50] <Mez> lol
[10:50] <Mez> http://www.sourceguru.net/pgp/
[10:50] <Mez> It wasnt on key server until I made sure I had a hard copy of it :D
[10:53] <Mez> I just shoved it up though
[11:00] <Kamion> siretart: there's nothing wrong with exceptions for cases where it makes sense
[11:00] <Kamion> but the exceptions should be explicit, not implicit!
[11:00] <siretart> Kamion: I agree completly 
[11:01] <pitti> well, explicit syncs do make sense for known-good packages, I agree
[11:01] <Kamion> dholbach: I haven't been able to talk to mdz much since UVF happened; when he gets back we'll clarify things
[11:01] <dholbach> ok
[11:01] <Kamion> it's pretty impossible to coordinate with people who are at debconf though
[11:02] <ogra> heh, yes
[11:02] <siretart> pitti: perhaps we can agree that in general sync which fix "important" and higher bugs (in debian severity terms) are acceptable?
[11:02] <ogra> they drink hard stuff, skate, eat melons and hang around in saunas according to planet debian
[11:02] <siretart> hehe
[11:02] <Kamion> siretart: that's always been reasonable cause for a freeze exception
[11:03] <siretart> great! :)
[11:03] <Kamion> but still one must ask for approval, if blanket approval has not been given
[11:03] <siretart> right
[11:03] <Mez> can someone please tell me why I'm getting "unauthorised" on the GB mirror?
[11:03] <Kamion> because it might make sense to backport a smaller fix instead, or the sync might adversely affect something else
[11:04] <Kamion> it's an extra review step to make sure we have better visibility across the distro when importing new code close to release
[11:04] <Mez> w00t for backports :D
[11:04] <Mez> when it gets instated
[11:04] <siretart> can we define some sort of procedure for requesting syncs? I don't know if elmo doesn't get annoyed when we constantly ping him on irc with requests
[11:04] <Kamion> that is the procedure
[11:04] <Kamion> although during freeze, better send mail
[11:05] <Kamion> so mail elmo, cc mdz and me
[11:05] <Kamion> at least that's approximately what we've done in previous release cycles (with s/Kamion/jdub/)
[11:05] <siretart> all right, will do then
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[11:06] <dholbach> ok
[11:06] <siretart> ok, will be back in one hour then, when meeting really begins
[11:06] <siretart> cu later
[11:06] <Mez> you taking over from jdub then Colin?
[11:07] <Kamion> Mez: not really
[11:07] <Kamion> Mez: jdub's moving more towards business development though, and isn't taking so much of an active part in the distro team
[11:08] <ogra> Mez, he looks better with tie then we all do ;)
[11:09] <Kamion> mdz always did the bulk of that stuff, and in the last couple of freezes he's taken to saying "ask me or Colin" rather than "ask me or Jeff"
[11:09] <Kamion> so I go with the flow :)
[11:09] <jbailey> Eh?
[11:09] <Burgundavia> Kamion, are you a foundation or canonical employee?
[11:09] <Kamion> other Jeff
[11:09] <jbailey> 'k =)
[11:09] <Mez> ogra, with Kamion it'd have to be a clip on ;)
[11:10] <Kamion> Burgundavia: as far as I'm aware nobody has shifted over to being employed by the Foundation yet
[11:10] <Burgundavia> Kamion, ok
[11:10] <Burgundavia> Kamion, that was my next question
[11:10] <Burgundavia> the idea with the foundation is that other companies can also fund it?
[11:10] <Kamion> Burgundavia: it hasn't yet been decided which members of the distro team will be employed by the Foundation and which by Canonical; I'm given to understand that there will be some of each
[11:12] <Kamion> that's one thing I might speculate, but I don't know if that's the explicit intent
[11:12] <Kamion> I think clear separation from Canonical's for-profit goals is more important, TBH
[11:12] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:13] <Kamion> but you can get all that from the press release :-)
[11:13] <Burgundavia> I have seen some slagging ubuntu, asking what happens when sabdfl gets bored and moves on to his next project
[11:13] <Kamion> http://www.livejournal.com/users/cjwatson/31101.html has my thoughts on it
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[11:14] <Kamion> continuity is obviously important, yes, trolling aside
[11:14] <Burgundavia> Kamion, what is fieldwave?
[11:14] <Kamion> a sufficient number of people have come to rely on Ubuntu that it would be poor form to drop it on the floor
[11:15] <Kamion> Fieldwave is the company that actually employs UK Canonical staff
[11:15] <Burgundavia> ah
[11:15] <Burgundavia> so the non-UK people work directly for canonical, but there are enough crazy limeys to make their own company?
[11:15] <Kamion> it exists for some strange corporate organisational purposes I don't fully understand; for most practical intents and purposes Fieldwave can be considered as Canonical
[11:15] <Burgundavia> probably tax purposes
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[11:18] <Mez> aka a beer 
[11:18] <Kamion> formally, I believe Fieldwave's contracted by Canonical to do some work on its behalf
[11:19] <Kamion> but as I say it doesn't make much practical difference and most of the UK employees will casually refer to themselves as Canonical staff
[11:19] <Mez> Kamion, so canonical = US company, even though Mark lives in the UK?
[11:19] <Kamion> Mez: no, Canonical is incorporated in the Isle of Man
[11:20] <Mez> ah lol
[11:20] <Mez> Marks' dodging tax again eh?
[11:20] <jbailey> Mez: What would you assume US? =)
[11:20] <Burgundavia> I think dodging tax goes with the lifestyle, the jet, etc.
[11:21] <Mez> jbailey, someone above mentioned US :P
[11:21] <Mez> Burgundavia, and the trips to space :P
[11:21] <Mez> s/trips/trip/
[11:22] <doko> hmm, pitti did leave?
[11:22] <Kamion> let's call it taking advantage of favourable tax laws rather than throwing around suggestions of tax evasion in a publicly-logged channel, shall we? :-)
[11:23] <ogra> doko, yes
[11:23] <Mez> apologies Kamion, my references to tax evasion were jovial 
[11:24] <Kamion> sure, understood, just thought it was kind of my duty to refute :)
[11:25] <Mez> I know Kamion, but seeing as this is publically loggable and the meaning of my comment may have been in doubt, I thought I'd clarify
[11:26] <Mez> so Kamion, are we still going to get a graphical isntaller for breezy?
[11:26] <Mez> :P
[11:27] <Kamion> UbuntuExpress is in progress, but mostly by Matt - I'm just doing the odd bit of support work for it
[11:27] <dholbach> Kamion: are you giving an interview and i didn't notice? :p
[11:27] <ogra> Mez, UbuntuExpress !
[11:27] <jbailey> Mez: You know, I've heard that on the third time you poke him, he begins to demonstrate some of the latest karate techniques that he's learned...
[11:27] <Kamion> haha
[11:27] <ogra> *g*
[11:27] <Kamion> only as a special present for elmo
[11:27] <\sh> interview?
[11:27] <Kamion> dholbach: it's beginning to feel that way, I admit ;)
[11:27] <Mez> lol - dont... I've got images of Kamion in a karate suit now!
[11:27] <dholbach> :)
[11:27] <\sh> mez: really?
[11:28] <\sh> Kamion: shotokan?
[11:28] <Mez> lol :D and Kamion - you said you were personally working on the Graphical installer :D (from a liveCD)
[11:28] <Kamion> \sh: yes
[11:28] <jbailey> Mez: Somewhere on lamont's camera are pictures of the two of them in various holds.
[11:28] <Kamion> Mez: I think I said "we"
[11:28] <\sh> Kamion: you're welcome to our club in troisdorf..shotokan is the only way
[11:28] <Kamion> if I didn't, it was unintentional
[11:28] <Mez> you said "I" :P
[11:28] <Mez> hehe :DP
[11:28] <Kamion> Mez: oh, I said I was working on the cdebconf gtk frontend; that's a slightly different thing
[11:28] <\sh> Kamion: hope to see u at the wkc in brasil?
[11:29] <Mez> no, you said you were working on the LiveCD style install :D
[11:29] <Mez> install from a desktop icon on the LiveCD
[11:29] <dholbach> Mez: udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress should know :)
[11:29] <ogra> Mez, UbuntuExpress .... Kamion built(ds) the base for it 
[11:29] <Kamion> \sh: I'm not that good yet; only 8th kyu
[11:29] <Mez> you may not have meant "I" but you said it (I think)
[11:30] <dholbach> Mez: that's what he said :)
[11:30] <Kamion> sadly, the recording didn't work so there is no way to resolve that
[11:30] <\sh> Kamion: I'm only a parent of a master ;) so 8th kyu is yellow? orange? 
[11:30] <Mez> Kamion - someone had a video Camera in there
[11:30] <Kamion> \sh: yellow
[11:30] <dholbach> Mez: <Kamion> if I didn't, it was unintentional      :)
[11:30] <Mez> dholbach, I saw ;) 
[11:31] <\sh> Kamion: really? so my son is, he is lilac, blue something
[11:31] <Kamion> certainly my script says "we"
[11:31] <\sh> violett
[11:31] <\sh> ,-)
[11:31] <Burgundavia> queue the whinging --> http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=11198
[11:31] <dholbach> \sh: 5th?
[11:32] <Kamion> blue would be 6th kyu in our club
[11:32] <\sh> dholbach: something like this..he is youth NRW champion 2004
[11:32] <\sh> dholbach: with green belt....now he's violett/blue international
[11:32] <Kamion> white, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, purple+white, brown, brown+white, brown+red, black
[11:33] <\sh> Kamion: here in .de it's white, yellow, orange, green, violett, brown, black ... black+dan
[11:33] <dholbach> hmmm, 12 years ago, it was a bit different
[11:33] <dholbach> yeah
[11:33] <\sh> violett, is 2 years
[11:33] <ogra> seems much more logical to sort the colors by lightness
[11:33] <ogra> brightness
[11:34] <\sh> brown is 2 years, too + you have to become 18
[11:34] <\sh> years old
[11:34] <Kamion> similar, brown is about 2 years, black about 4 minimum
=== sistpoty2 [~stefan@DSL01.212.114.232.143.NEFkom.net]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
=== jordi_ [~jordi@a130-233-5-49.debconf5.hut.fi]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[11:34] <\sh> ogra: it's much more difficult...the belts doesn't say anything at all...if you see a 70 year old guy
=== jordi_ is now known as mdz
[11:34] <ogra> heh
[11:35] <mdz> good evening
[11:35] <ogra> hey mdz !
[11:35] <Kamion> evening matt
[11:35] <mdz> apologies for my lateness
[11:35] <\sh> ogra: and this 70 yearold guy is fighting with swords and knifes against 3 people
[11:35] <Mez> lateness mdz?
[11:35] <mdz> one moment while I abude jordi's machin e
[11:35] <\sh> matt: u r welcome :) hope the beer was good
[11:35] <ogra> mdz, 22:00 UTC
[11:35] <ajmitch> hi mdz 
[11:35] <ogra> says the topic
[11:35] <Mez> ogra: it was 20:00 in the wiki ;)
[11:35] <Kamion> mdz: apparently it depends whether you believe the topic or the wiki
[11:35] <ogra> yep
[11:36] <mdz> heh the time on my mobile is all sorts of confused
[11:36] <\sh> Mez: forget the wiki ;-)
[11:36] <mdz> is scott ritchie present?
[11:36] <ajmitch> I hope it's 22:00, otherwise I'm really late :)
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[11:36] <mdz> \sh: have you been in touch with him?
[11:37] <dholbach> mdz: YokoZar was his ircnick, irc
[11:37] <ogra> yep
[11:37] <Mez> \sh: is that wise ?
[11:37] <\sh> mdz: I wrote a mail...he didn't answer
[11:37] <dholbach> i'm for a dog walk, brb
[11:37] <Kamion> we have certainly had the wine discussion before, either just before or shortly after warty
[11:37] <Kamion> perhaps somebody could find the discussion in the #ubuntu-meeting archives
[11:38] <Mez> mdz: /query
[11:38] <\sh> mdz: but I would like to have his package..actually I used a plain debian/* dir for the latest snapshot and it compiled with gcc-4
[11:38] <\sh> Kamion: I read it
[11:38] <ogra> Kamion, sabdfls word was quite clear about that, he wants winehq packages
[11:38] <Kamion> ah, more like March
[11:39] <\sh> una momenta....girl is calling
[11:39] <ogra> Kamion, there was a mail to ubuntu-devel
[11:39] <Kamion> ogra: I'm not attempting to overrule sabdfl, never fear! I was just making sure the previous discussion had been taken into account
[11:39] <mdz> hey, mdz is running to the hotel to grab his own laptop, now that he-s actually early for the meeting
[11:39] <ogra> Kamion, it has 
[11:39] <Kamion> 2005-03-15
[11:40] <mdz> repeat your questions when he gets back!
[11:40] <Mez> lol, mdz, quickly answer my question!
[11:40] <jbailey> Beware the ides of march?
=== mdz is now known as jordi_
[11:40] <\sh> aehm
[11:40] <\sh> girls
[11:41] <\sh> i mean I like the idea to be whipped by jane...but
[11:41] <\sh> now I'm confused
[11:41] <Mez> \sh have you got the right channel?
[11:41] <\sh> mez: sure
[11:41] <ogra> jordi_, how's the leg dude ?
=== sabdfl [~mark@sabdfl.silver.supporter.pdpc]  has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[11:41] <\sh> I need a decision about whine...
[11:41] <sabdfl> hi all
[11:41] <sabdfl> apologies for being late
[11:42] <ogra> hey sabdfl 
[11:42] <\sh> g'night mark
[11:42] <ogra> hehe
[11:42] <ogra> sabdfl, 22:00 UTC 
[11:42] <sabdfl> phew
[11:42] <ogra> everybody thinks he's late *g*
[11:42] <\sh> u can drink one more ;)
[11:42] <sabdfl> hic
[11:42] <\sh> hahaha
[11:42] <ogra> heh
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[11:43] <\sh> *kippchendreh* ,-)
[11:43] <mdz> jordi_: thanks
[11:44] <Mez> sabdfl, or 20:00 if you read the wiki
[11:44] <Mez>  :d
[11:44] <\sh> ogra: daniel is not there again...
[11:44] <jordi_> ogra: the leg is getting better.
[11:44] <jordi_> Not thanks to elmo!
[11:44] <jordi_> laters guys, mdz: no problem
[11:44] <ajmitch> hi sabdfl
[11:44] <jordi_> mdz: YOU KNOW WHAT
[11:44] <mdz> jordi_: you may never know
=== sistpoty2 is now known as sistpoty
[11:44] <mdz> jordi_: what life is like with a hitler moustache
[11:44] <jordi_> mdz: mako just came and we're going to have a swim naked in the sea
[11:45] <sabdfl> hi ajmitch
[11:45] <sabdfl> man it's hot in finland
[11:45] <jordi_> mdz: I will do it for the next conference
[11:45] <jordi_> mdz: i will DO IT
[11:45] <\sh> ok..if anybody is having a drink and is online :) 
[11:45] <\sh> sabdfl: send pics :)
[11:45] <Mez> mdz: /query :d
[11:46] <jbailey> We swam naked in the sea in Oslo, perhaps it can be an every other debconf tradition.
[11:46] <Mez> jbailey - dont send pics of that :D
[11:46] <\sh> no.i don't want to have pics *shrug*
[11:47] <sabdfl> nekkid people!
[11:47] <ogra> lol
[11:47] <\sh> sabdfl: say: nackige leute :)
[11:48] <\sh> ok....fun beside :)
[11:48] <mdz> \sh: photos cannot show how hot it is
[11:48] <mdz> who submitted the "universe freeze dates" proposal?
[11:48] <mdz> s/proposal/agenda item/
[11:49] <\sh> mdz: believe me, I CAN FEEL THE HEAT I'm living somewhere between 4th and 100th floor
[11:49] <Kamion> (wasn't me, but) - I've been repeatedly explaining to people how UVF benefits stability of universe too, and how it's an extra review step not "you can't do this", etc.
=== siretart wants to do the point "transitions in universe" on the agenda. objections?
[11:50] <Kamion> we did spring it on MOTU folks rather late, though
=== \sh agrees with kamion 
[11:50] <Kamion> "transitions in universe" is not currently on the agenda
[11:50] <\sh> but some stuff has to be updated :(
=== siretart wants to put it (sorry)
[11:50] <Kamion> \sh: so request exceptions
[11:51] <\sh> Kamion: will bug u...no problem :)
[11:51] <ajmitch> Kamion: you mean, we heard about it when it happened? :)
[11:51] <ogra> ajmitch, yep
[11:51] <\sh> Kamion: better to say..it's good to have a first class decision..right now it's a mess
[11:53] <Kamion> ajmitch: it was always on the release schedule; we just hadn't realised that everybody thought universe had some kind of blanket exception from UVF
[11:54] <jbailey> Kamion: I know I had been under the impression that everything to do with Universe (Freezes, post-release updates, etc) was up to the Master MOTUs.
[11:54] <Kamion> the reason it worked that way for Hoary was that you guys were just getting started and UVF was too early with respect to that
[11:54] <ajmitch> Kamion: right, we thought the same would happen for breezy
[11:54] <mdz> apparently it was ReinhardTartler2
[11:54] <ogra> i assumed it, since we excluded universe from hoarys UVF
[11:54] <siretart> mdz: that's me
=== Kamion is being nagged to go to bed - night all
[11:55] <ogra> night Kamion 
[11:55] <ajmitch> night Kamion 
[11:56] <siretart> gn8 Kamion!
[11:56] <\sh> Kamion: ok...now it's fact: universe is UVF and only upstream upgrades (updates I will name only as revision syncs from debian e.g.) have to be approved by 3 ppls of main?
[11:56] <\sh> s/Kamion/mdz/
[11:57] <siretart> 3 ppl of main seems a bit overengeneered to me, honestly..
[11:57] <mdz> I'm more than willing to be flexible about UVF with regard to universe
[11:57] <dholbach> mdz: i put freeze dates on the agenda, since i wasnt sure about it (and most of the motus as well)
[11:57] <Kamion> \sh: er, no ...
[11:57] <\sh> and kamion: sleep well :)
[11:57] <mdz> so long as we meet release milestones
[11:57] <Kamion> \sh: approval is currently one of mdz and me; we could extend that for universe
[11:57] <mdz> but there should be a specific rationale if you want to deviate from the established procedures
[11:57] <\sh> Kamion: ok..u + mdz..and now off to sleep :)
[11:57] <dholbach> *nod*
[11:58] <dholbach> NEW packages will need to be treated differently
[11:58] <mdz> dholbach: please remember to place your name next to the item
[11:58] <mdz> as the comments in the wiki say
[11:58] <\sh> dholbach: NEW p. are treated differently....
[11:59] <dholbach> mdz: i will, next time
[11:59] <dholbach> ok then this item is all set
[11:59] <\sh> dholbach: that's why I don'tlike right now new packages in universe, cause we have too many other things to work on :(
[12:00] <ogra> \sh++
[12:00] <mdz> ok, moving on then
[12:00] <mdz> is Scott Ritchie here yet?
[12:00] <ajmitch> \sh: you just need to recruit more MOTUs :)
[12:00] <\sh> ajmitch: we're officially 20
[12:00] <ogra> mdz, i doubt he will appear
[12:00] <dholbach> \sh: fixing stuff is excluded from UpstreamVersionFreeze :)
[12:00] <\sh> more then that
[12:00] <mdz> I think he needs to be present for this discussion
[12:00] <ogra> about 30
[12:00] <\sh> ogra: thx...
[12:00] <mdz> \sh: if you are in touch with him, please have him contact me directly
[12:00] <\sh> but u always see only a few 
[12:01] <mdz> \sh: since we seem to have trouble syncing up for meetings
[12:01] <ogra> mdz, he didnt show up since some months in the community
[12:01] <mdz> and this isn't necessarily a tech board issue anyway
[12:01] <\sh> mdz: I don't be in touch with him..I tried...and that's why I put it on the agenda
[12:01] <mdz> \sh: so what is the specific issue?
[12:01] <ogra> changig from debian to winehq packages
[12:02] <\sh> mdz: wine isn't  compiling doesn't work at all...so I want this stuff fixed for universe
[12:02] <\sh> and I like to have this stuff in...even if I'm playing maintainer
[12:02] <mdz> if the question is whether to use Debian's packages or Scott's packages, and the Debian packages don't build while Scott's do, that seems like a no-brainer
[12:02] <\sh> the other alternative is , kicking it out
[12:02] <mdz> it is important to us that we have solid wine packages
[12:02] <ogra> yep
[12:03] <mdz> and if in your assessment, his packages are of higher quality, we should clearly go in that direction
[12:03] <\sh> ok..so I need an ++ from u and kamion for an upload
[12:03] <mdz> ideally we should do so in collaboration with him
[12:03] <ogra> mdz, the idea was to get scott here today to talk to him about it
[12:03] <\sh> mdz: i will bug him
[12:03] <ogra> mdz, thats why we put it on the agenda
[12:03] <mdz> \sh: go ahead and upload
[12:03] <\sh> bug actually w8ing for him is no use for us right now...
[12:03] <mdz> and send him notification about what we are doing
[12:04] <\sh> did already
[12:04] <\sh> ogra has a copy
[12:04] <mdz> you can tell him that a decision has been taken and that we want to work with him on the packages