[12:09] <lamont__> xresprobe on ia64/hoary is busticated - X asked me a question.
[12:22] <lamont__> oo.o even runs... woot
[12:50] <lamont__> hrm... ia64 hotplug seems to not like the hoary-security kernel very much
[01:33] <trulux> mako: ping
[02:28] <daniels> oh my god
[02:28] <daniels> xkeyboard-config has its own XML parser in Perl
[02:28] <wasabi> Hmm.
[02:28] <HrdwrBoB> wtf
[02:28] <daniels> thanks guys
[02:28] <wasabi> We totally need an ubuntu-crack mailinglist.
[02:28] <daniels> we needed another one of those
[02:28] <wasabi> Where people can just post "Cool Shit."
[02:29] <wasabi> "omg wobbly windows, w00t", etc.
[02:30] <wasabi> Basically I find searching for crack to be frought with frustration.
[02:30] <daniels> yet you have to have XML::Parser installed ANYWAY because of intltool
[02:30] <daniels> so much hate
[02:32] <daniels> also, they hardcode prefix=/usr into their configure.in, and it also has this gem:
[02:32] <daniels>   --enable-xkbcomp-symlink      create xkbcomp symlink to $(xkb_base)../../../bin/xkbcomp
[02:32] <daniels> it creates that symlink no matter what you do, and that breaks horribly when xkb_base isn't /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb
[02:32] <daniels> but it's OK
[02:32] <daniels> i didn't care about having anything actually work anyway
[02:33] <schweeb> daniels: nice philosophy
[02:33] <schweeb> lol
[02:49] <luis_> daniels: ?
[02:50] <daniels> luis_: YES, MASTER
[02:50] <daniels> luis_: (be warned, rhythmbox shuffle put on some mind-blowing drum n bass way too early in the morning, so I'm kind of in a stupid mood)
[02:50] <luis_> haha
[02:50] <daniels> also I'm kind of high on removing shit from xorg
[02:51] <luis_> current libxv dev packages don't seem to have .h files- known?
[02:51] <daniels> xbase-clients?  NOT ANY MORE
[02:51] <daniels> luis_: yeah, waiting on some NEW action
[02:51] <daniels> i think
[02:51] <luis_> OK, cool
[02:51] <luis_> just wanted to make sure it was knonw
[02:52] <daniels> *cough*
[02:52] <daniels> daniels@brainfreeze:~/canonical/xorg/monolith/xorg-6.8.2/debian% (dpkg-deb -c ~/canonical/xorg/proto/x11proto-video/x11proto-video-dev_2.2+cvs.20050712-1_all.deb && dpkg-deb -c ~/canonical/xorg/lib/libxv/libxv-dev_2.2.0+cvs.20050712-1_amd64.deb) | grep usr/include/X11/extensions
[02:52] <daniels> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2005-07-12 11:30:29 ./usr/include/X11/extensions/
[02:52] <daniels> -rw-r--r-- root/root      5478 2005-07-12 11:30:28 ./usr/include/X11/extensions/vldXvMC.h
[02:52] <daniels> -rw-r--r-- root/root      3123 2005-07-12 11:30:28 ./usr/include/X11/extensions/Xv.h
[02:52] <daniels> -rw-r--r-- root/root      3730 2005-07-12 11:30:28 ./usr/include/X11/extensions/XvMC.h
[02:52] <daniels> -rw-r--r-- root/root      4981 2005-07-12 11:30:28 ./usr/include/X11/extensions/XvMCproto.h
[02:52] <daniels> -rw-r--r-- root/root     13225 2005-07-12 11:30:28 ./usr/include/X11/extensions/Xvproto.h
[02:52] <daniels> drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 2005-07-12 11:35:02 ./usr/include/X11/extensions/
[02:52] <daniels> -rw-r--r-- root/root     10301 2005-07-12 11:35:02 ./usr/include/X11/extensions/Xvlib.h
[02:52] <daniels> so when you get those two, you should be sweet
[02:52] <daniels> (and libxvmc-dev 1.something+cvs.20050712-1 has XvMClib.h)
[02:54] <luis_> cool thanks
[03:24] <Amaranth> "If I get one more email/bug report/flame from some idiot about how libaspell15c2 has broke their KDE or some shit because it conflicts with libaspell15, I might have to break more than just their KDE."
[03:26] <Riddell> Amaranth: what's the problem?  is some part of KDE using a pre c++ transition libapsell?
[03:26] <Amaranth> Riddell: No, it's a Debian developer. :)
[03:27] <Amaranth> just thought it'd get a chuckle seeing how ubuntu just went through all that
[03:27] <Riddell> aah, yes, fun stuff
[03:43] <daniels> KKKKKKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
[03:44] <daniels> Keybuk: dude!
[03:45] <daniels> Keybuk: you told me dpkg had support for migrating conffiles :(
[03:57] <poningru> I had a question
[03:57] <poningru> why dont dpkg have double click install feature?
[03:57] <poningru> I asked before but didnt get an answer
[03:58] <Amaranth> poningru: afaik it's just a mime issue
[03:58] <crimsun> dpkg doesn't, but Kynaptic and Synaptic do
[04:01] <poningru> crimsun: what do you mean?
[04:02] <poningru> for that wouldnt you need synaptic to run always?
[04:02] <poningru> also Amaranth why not just fix that then?
[04:02] <crimsun> poningru: I don't have context of your original question, so I have to address it in this vacuum.
[04:02] <poningru>  why dont dpkg have double click install feature?
[04:02] <poningru> thats my original question
[04:03] <crimsun> dpkg is a command line application. It would be rather disastrous to make it have a double-click install feature.
[04:03] <Amaranth> He wants double-click install, which imo is a security risk.
[04:03] <daniels> this is probably not a #ubuntu-devel question
[04:04] <crimsun> true
[04:04] <poningru> just ask for passsword 
[04:04] <poningru> oh
[04:04] <poningru> where should I move it to?
[04:04] <poningru> and will you guys follow?
[04:05] <poningru> crimsun: I am talking about .deb files
[04:05] <poningru> I think
[04:05] <crimsun> move this to #ubuntu, please
[05:24] <calc> daniels: is xserver-xorg going to move the remaining files out of /usr/X11R6/bin ?
[05:24] <daniels> calc: when it gets modularised, yes
[05:24] <calc> oh ok
[05:25] <calc> so is the entire /usr/X11R6 going away after modularization or just most of it?
[06:20] <cartman> is there a problem with archives, xorg pack. still not moved to archives though it compiled fine for amd64 in last 3 uploads
[06:20] <daniels> it's stuck in NEW
[06:20] <cartman> daniels: sorry, that means? :/
[06:21] <daniels> there are new binary packages which weren't in previous uploads
[06:21] <daniels> they need manual approval
[06:21] <cartman> ah :/
[06:21] <cartman> I seem to miss XWrapper here and startx doesn't work once again, thought new upload would fix it
[06:21] <cartman> daniels: thanks for info
[06:31] <fabbione> daniels: is the new X sitting in NEW?
[06:31] <fabbione> morning
[06:34] <daniels> fabbione: binary NEW, yeah
[06:34] <daniels> and there are a bajillion source packages in source NEW
[06:37] <fabbione> no wonder
[06:43] <fabbione> jbailey: ping?
[07:01] <Amaranth> uh oh
[07:01] <Amaranth> time for the backports guys to do stupid things with firefox and users to complain :/
[07:01] <Amaranth> no offense to any backports guys who might be here
[07:04] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:15] <pitti> Hi guys
[07:15] <fabbione> hi pitti
[07:16] <pitti> Hi fabbione, how's life?
[07:16] <fabbione> pitti: tired... i didn't sleep well in the last days. it's just too warm
[07:16] <pitti> fabbione: hehe, it's +30C here in the north...
[07:17] <fabbione> yeah same here + or -
[07:17] <fabbione> how is debconf going?
[07:20] <pitti> fabbione: pretty great, and pretty relaxed; much hacking, talking, and a full day trip to an island today
[07:20] <fabbione> ah nice
[07:20] <fabbione> have fun
[07:20] <pitti> thanks :-)
[07:21] <fabbione> ehhe
[07:21] <fabbione> pitti: do you know if elmo is coming around?
[07:21] <pitti> fabbione: he's here
[07:21] <pitti> fabbione: shall I poke him about anything?
[07:22] <pitti> fabbione: well, he's still asleep, though :-)
[07:22] <infinity> pitti : I don't suppose you could beg him to un-VAC for a few minutes to NEW all of the pending X stuff?
[07:22] <fabbione> pitti: well if possible i need the new glibc on breezy chroot on concordia. they should be ale to fix the problem i have building the kernel
[07:23] <fabbione> that too :)
[07:23] <pitti> infinity: Kamion isn't available either?
[07:23] <fabbione> pitti: Kamion won'
[07:23] <fabbione> pitti: Kamion won't be around for another bunch of hours
[07:23] <infinity> pitti : Kamion will be around at some point, I assu,e but not yet.
[07:23] <pitti> ok
[07:23] <infinity> s/assu,e/assume/
[07:23] <infinity> I'll bug him, though, if elmo can't get to it.
[07:23] <pitti> alright, if I see him before we meet to start the trip, I ask him
[07:23] <infinity> fabbione's chroot request still stands though, since we only have one sysadmin right now.
[07:24] <pitti> does thom still have root?
[07:24] <fabbione> pitti: can't you leave me a paper message right in front of his nose?
[07:24] <fabbione> pitti: thom is at debconf as much as you are i think
[07:24] <infinity> pitti : If he does, he's not supposed to use it.
[07:24] <infinity> pitti : So, in effect, he doesn't.
[07:24] <pitti> alrigh
[07:24] <pitti> t
[07:33] <fabbione> inotify is upstream!
[07:36] <pitti> wow
[07:36] <whiprush> woo!
[07:49] <mae> ??
[08:01] <mae> how is breezy coming
[08:14] <Keybuk> daniels: "migrating conffiles" ?  are they going south for the winter ?
[08:15] <daniels> Keybuk: moving from xlibs -> xlibs-data
[08:15] <daniels> er
[08:15] <daniels> moving from xlibs -> xkeyboard-config
[08:15] <Keybuk> yes ?  that's why dpkg doesn't remove conffiles
[08:15] <Keybuk> xkeyboard-config ... Replaces: xlibs
[08:15] <daniels> which helpfully prompts me for every single conffile
[08:15] <daniels> i'd like it to not prompt unless it's actually been changed
[08:15] <Keybuk> if you changed them, yes
[08:16] <daniels> unchanged
[08:16] <Keybuk> it's a bit broken, of course
[08:16] <daniels> i hacked around it by just nuking it in preinst/postinst in any case
[08:16] <daniels> hah :P
[08:16] <daniels> and keeping the xlibs package around
[08:41] <fabbione> hmmm we are missing slang2 source from ubuntu
[08:49] <pitti> fabbione: still no sign of elmo, sorry
[08:50] <fabbione> pitti: ok thanks
[09:08] <pef> hi
[09:16] <jsgotangco>  #ubuntu-mot
[09:16] <jsgotangco> j  #ubuntu-motu
[09:16] <jsgotangco> yaahh sorry
[09:17] <jsgotangco> i just finished rebuilding my laptop tee hee
[09:17] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: rebuilding hardware-wise or software-wise?
[09:17] <jsgotangco> software-wise
[09:18] <jsgotangco> im forced to dual-boot on this laptop due to my client running oracle
[09:20] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: dual-boot? what's wrong with an oracle-supported chroot (redhat or something I guess)
[09:21] <jsgotangco> Treenaks, the client software (JInitiator) only runs on IE and Netscape atm
[09:21] <jsgotangco> seeding the data requires me to have JInitiator
[09:21] <jsgotangco> tee hee
[09:21] <Treenaks> yay
[09:21] <jsgotangco> i should get an extra laptop just for that jeez
[09:21] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: vmware/qemu + windows then?
[09:22] <jsgotangco> i would have gone that route if my machine was good
[09:22] <jsgotangco> im saving for a new one though
[09:27] <daniels> fabbione: any chance we could get the trackpoint patch merged, but not autodetecting -- so you need to specify a boot option?
[09:27] <daniels> i'm really missing it
[09:28] <Treenaks> daniels: only weenies use mice & their substitutes
[09:28] <fabbione> daniels: it's upstream already.. what do we need more?
[09:28] <Treenaks> Real Men use the keyboard
[09:28] <fabbione> anyway i am off to bed. i am not feeling good today
[09:30] <daniels> fabbione: oh, is it?
[09:30] <daniels> fabbione: g'night dude, feel better
[09:36] <daniels> bah.  both of productplacement and intuneandontime are too long.
[09:37] <Treenaks> daniels: ?
[09:39] <daniels> Treenaks: machine names
[09:40] <Treenaks> daniels: ah
[09:40] <Treenaks> those can be too long?
[09:40] <daniels> having to type ssh intuneandontime can be a pain in the arse
[09:40] <daniels> brainfreeze is about as long as I'd like to get
[09:40] <daniels> i settled on ephemera (contraction of excessiveephemera)
[09:40] <Lathiat> daniels: thats what ssh tab completion is for
[09:47] <dilinger> daniels: heh, dj shadow?
[09:49] <daniels> dilinger: sensing a pattern? :)
[09:49] <daniels> dilinger: i'm a bit of a shadow fanboy
[09:49] <dilinger> i stumbled upon entroducing's deluxe edition a few weeks ago
[09:49] <dilinger> good stuff
[09:50] <daniels> yeah, the mix from oxford is just too awesome
[09:50] <Amaranth> inotify merged into linus's kernel!
[09:50] <Lathiat> oh nice
[09:51] <Amaranth> http://www.kernel.org/git/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=0eeca28300df110bd6ed54b31193c83b87921443
[09:55] <zyga> hello
[09:55] <zyga> will firefox 1.0.5 be included in hoary or will the changes be ported back to 1.0.2?
[09:55] <Amaranth> that second one
[09:56] <Amaranth> the security fixes will be backported
[09:56] <Amaranth> any other changes won't be
[09:56] <zyga> great
[09:57] <mdz> though perhaps firefox 1.0.5 will land in the newly established hoary-backports?
[09:57] <mdz> s/\?//
[09:57] <Amaranth> does that actually exist yet?
[09:58] <Amaranth> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary-backports/
[09:58] <Amaranth> whoa
[09:59] <\sh> woot?
[09:59] <\sh> since when
[09:59] <ivoks> today
[09:59] <zyga> hmm
[09:59] <zyga> :)
[09:59] <Amaranth> did i miss another meeting or something?
[09:59] <Amaranth> i mean, i've missed a month of meetings...
[10:01] <mirak> hi
[10:02] <mirak>  I want to use gcc3.4.4 instead of gcc3.4.3 to build a cross compiler with toolchain-source. Is it possible ?
[10:07] <Amaranth> hey, hoary-backports already has things in it
[10:07] <Amaranth> dpkg and dselect??
[10:08] <mirak> what ?
[10:08] <mirak> in fact I changed the symbolic links
[10:09] <mirak> but I got compile error at some point
[10:09] <Amaranth> mirak: Oh, I have no idea about that stuff.
[10:09] <mirak> there is almost no docs about this
[10:12] <\sh> hmmm...
[10:13] <tsume> does anyone know why ubuntu's kernel takes _SO_ long to load compared to fedora's?
[10:13] <\sh> anybody can have a look, why the binary packages of gfccore_2.3.1-2ubuntu1 are not in the archives? :) it's builded already...sources are on the servers
[10:15] <Treenaks> \sh: how long ago?
[10:16] <Kamion> Amaranth: they were a test
[10:16] <Kamion> \sh: they're in NEW
[10:16] <Amaranth> Kamion: ah
[10:16] <Kamion> daniels: any particular order all this X stuff in NEW needs to be done?
[10:16] <Amaranth> Kamion: what's with ~hoary1?
[10:16] <Kamion> Amaranth: elmo's test
[10:16] <Kamion> Amaranth: I imagine/hope that'll be nuked before it goes public
[10:16] <Amaranth> ok
[10:17] <Amaranth> except i just announced it to the world...
[10:17] <Kamion> fool :)
[10:18] <Kamion> don't announce things just because there's some stuff visible in the archive ...
[10:18] <Kamion> it's being worked on
[10:18] <Amaranth> i did for hoary-updates too :P
[10:21] <infinity> Kamion : daniels just headed off to come hang out with me.
[10:21] <infinity> Kamion : Just NEW the whole lot (please), and if his build-deps are wrong, I'll smack him around later (or upload fixes)
[10:21] <Kamion> hmm, I wish I knew how to NEW stuff straight into universe
[10:22] <Amaranth> doesn't it just fall into universe if it's not in a certain seed?
[10:23] <Kamion> Amaranth: not when I process NEW - haven't figured out why
[10:24] <Kamion> Amaranth: also the relationship between seeds and main/universe is only semi-automatic
[10:24] <Kamion> hmm, is this really the first time an hppa kernel has made it into the archive?
[10:26] <mdz> Amaranth: ;-)
[10:26] <mdz> dpkg was the test case which was run through the system
[10:30] <Kamion> infinity,daniels: all these bazillion xserver-xorg-* were run past elmo, weren't they?
[10:31] <Amaranth> *cough*yes*cough*
[10:35] <Kamion> daniels: do all of xserver-xorg-* *really* need to Conflicts xserver-xorg (<< split) as well as Replaces?
[10:35] <Kamion> daniels: seems to me that'll make upgrades a pig for no really good reason - Replaces alone would be fine?
[10:36] <infinity> Replaces alone would almost certainly be fine.  I'll smack him when I see him in 1.5 hours.
[10:36] <infinity> (He's stuck on busses/trains for a while)
[10:36] <Kamion> sure, I'm expecting stuff to queue up :)
[10:37] <Kamion> daniels: DUDE
[10:37] <Kamion> daniels: YOU FORGOT XSERVER-XORG'S DEPENDS LINE
[10:38] <infinity> Shall I halt it at the buildds?
[10:38] <Treenaks> Why do you notice this while I hear REMs "It's the end of the world as we know it"
[10:38] <Kamion> infinity: might be a good idea
[10:39] <infinity> Kamion : Source package?
[10:39] <Kamion> infinity: xorg
[10:39] <infinity> Oh, yay.
[10:40] <infinity> Oh, wait.  I can't halt it.  You were NEWing binaries.
[10:40] <infinity> For some reason, I thought you were NEWing source.
[10:40] <infinity> It's alreayd beyond my control.
[10:40] <infinity> already, too.
[10:40] <Kamion> so I was
[10:41] <Kamion> I'll fetch source and fix
[10:41] <infinity> Or just kiss breezy goodbye for a while. :)
[10:41] <Mez> Kamion, are you breaking things again ?
[10:42] <Mez> :P
[10:44] <Kamion> Mez: no
[10:44] <Mez> lol - good :D
[10:47] <Amaranth> when you NEW binaries doesn't that mean they've built and are just waiting to get copied to the mirrors?
[10:48] <Treenaks> Mez: he's unbreaking it
[10:48] <Treenaks> Mez: I hope
[10:48] <Kamion> Amaranth: binaries end up in the NEW queue when no binaries of that name have been in the archive before
[10:48] <Kamion> (approximately)
[10:49] <Amaranth> i mean after you've accepted them though
[10:49] <Kamion> Amaranth: yes
[10:50] <Kamion> d'oh, daniels tried to use the [arch...]  syntax in xserver-xorg's Depends - that only works in Build-Depends
[10:51] <infinity> That would explain the problem..
[10:52] <infinity> Get to replace it in debian/rules with an arch-dep:substvars, I guess.
[10:53] <Kamion> yeah, doing that
[10:53] <infinity> Want to beg mdz to un-ACCEPT the binaries, and I can fix it properly later?
[10:53] <infinity> Or, you can do it now. :)
[10:53] <infinity> I'm off in 5 mins to go smack daniel on your behalf.
[10:53] <infinity> Anything you'd like me to convey?
[10:54] <Kamion> UNACCEPT is just bad - I'll fix it and shove through an extra cron.daily
[10:55] <Mez> siretart, ping
[10:57] <Mez> infinity - you still here?
[11:00] <Mez> poop
[11:00] <Mez> infinity, or lamont, ping
[11:02] <bob2> it might be better to just ask your question
[11:03] <bob2> and perhaps someone else can answer
[11:03] <Kamion> for x in `ls debian/scripts/vars.* | sed 's/.*vars\.//'`; do echo $x; ARCH=$x perl -ne 'print qq{XSERVER_XORG_SPECIAL_DEPENDS="}; chomp; @drivers = split /, /; for my $driverline (@drivers) { $driverline =~ /(.*?) \[(.*)\] / or exit 1; $driver = $1; %arches = map { $_ => 1 } split / /, $2; print "$driver, " if $arches{$ENV{ARCH}} } print qq{"\n}' ../drivers | sed 's/, "/"/' >> debian/scripts/vars.$x; done
[11:03] <Amaranth> oops
[11:03] <Kamion> you know I'm sure there was a more elegant way to do that
[11:03] <Mez> bob2, I was poking them because I need them to take some stuff OUT of the backports repository :D
[11:03] <Amaranth> it changes the System->About GNOME icon too
[11:04] <Treenaks> Amaranth: make them reference different files
[11:04] <Amaranth> Treenaks: Not my place.
[11:04] <Treenaks> Amaranth: in my SuSE install they're distinct
[11:04] <Amaranth> Treenaks: Plus I don't even know where to look.
[11:05] <Lathiat> its in net/core
[11:05] <Lathiat> after a good 6 hours at least
[11:05] <Amaranth> are you on a 486?
[11:05] <Lathiat> 133mhz mips 
[11:05] <Lathiat> w/ 2M/s disk i/o
[11:05] <Treenaks> Lathiat: wooo
[11:07] <Lathiat> i think the disk i/o should be faster
[11:07] <Lathiat> but my internal scsi bus is lacking a temrinator
[11:07] <Amaranth> Mez: You mean the dpkg stuff that's in there>
[11:07] <Lathiat> because i dont have one
[11:07] <Amaranth> ?
[11:07] <Mez> yeah Amaranth 
[11:07] <Amaranth> That was just a test.
[11:08] <Amaranth> btw, if breezy can look like http://www.realistanew.com/desktop.png out of the box we can get a lot more users :D
[11:08] <Lathiat> Amaranth: whats "remote storage"
[11:08] <Lathiat> just a mount?
[11:08] <Amaranth> yeah
[11:08] <bob2> Lathiat: indy?
[11:08] <Lathiat> bob2: yep
[11:09] <Lathiat> bob2: r4400
[11:09] <bob2> ah, mine has a 4600sc or something
[11:09] <bob2> I should power it up sometime
[11:09] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/network.jpg <-- doesnt it just look sexy?
[11:09] <Mez> yeah Amaranth I know it was a test, but it needs to be taken out :D
[11:09] <Lathiat> bob2: want to get my indycam going
[11:09] <Lathiat> it detects in debians 2.4.27 but the image comes up all black
[11:10] <Amaranth> Lathiat: Gateway Multimedia Keyboard?
[11:10] <bob2> Amaranth: or by being awesome, it can attract non-14-year-olds ;)
[11:10] <Lathiat> Amaranth: not gateway, its "Genius"
[11:10] <Lathiat> Amaranth: you can send me that picture ;p
[11:10] <Amaranth> bob2: Dude, that's Cristina Scabbia. She sings better than she looks. :)
[11:11] <bob2> never heard of her
[11:11] <Treenaks> bob2: you attact 14-year-olds?!? WTF?
[11:11] <Amaranth> http://reverend.warp1.net/wallpapers/files/christina_scabbia_01.jpg
[11:11] <Amaranth> bob2: Lacuna Coil
[11:12] <Mez> Amaranth, I've met her :D
[11:12] <Amaranth> Mez: Die.
[11:13] <Mez> lol :D
[11:13] <Mez> and nightwish :D
[11:13] <Mez> and am meeting sonata arctica and epica in the next 11 days
[11:13] <Seveas> nightwish is awesome
[11:13] <Treenaks> Mez: I know some people who would like to meet epica
[11:13] <Lathiat> Amaranth: http://bur.st/~lathiat/park21024x768.jpg
[11:14] <Amaranth> Lathiat: meh
[11:14] <Mez> Treenaks :D well I have Access All Areas for thirteenth day festival
[11:14] <Lathiat> pff, meh
[11:15] <Amaranth> Mez: I'm going to find you, steal your pass, and beat you just for fun.
[11:15] <Treenaks> Mez: nice
[11:15] <Mez> Amaranth, are you coming 13th day ?
[11:15] <Amaranth> no
[11:15] <Amaranth> Lathiat: linda park from star trek?
[11:15] <Lathiat> Amaranth: yes
[11:15] <Amaranth> damnit
[11:15] <Lathiat> hahaha
[11:17] <Mez> damn
[11:17] <Mez> weoulda been cool if you were :D and woulda been able to get your key signed for ya :P
[11:17] <Mez> come on, linda park *IS* hot
[11:17] <Treenaks> Mez: agreed
[11:17] <Treenaks> Mez: but does she sign keys?
[11:18] <Lathiat> Amaranth: sok, you should use this: http://bur.st/~lathiat/bg.jpg
[11:18] <Amaranth> Lathiat: dude, that's just weird
[11:19] <Mez> Treenaks, in the future, I'm sure they have subdermal ID devices, so they dont need keys :D
[11:19] <Treenaks> Mez: still
[11:19] <Treenaks> geek pickup lines.. "Would you sign my key?"
[11:19] <Mez> lol
[11:19] <Mez> I need to get my gf to get a key so she can have it signed
[11:19] <Mez> hmm
[11:19] <Mez> http://frightenedarmadillo.lunaticsworld.com/fakes/Linda_Park-04-Frightened_Armadillo.jpg
[11:19] <Lathiat> Amaranth: hahaha
[11:19] <Treenaks> Mez: that redirects to some php
[11:20] <Mez> does it?
[11:20] <Mez> weird
[11:20] <Amaranth> whee
[11:20] <Lathiat> refer checking
[11:20] <Amaranth> Mez: faked
[11:20] <Lathiat> the problem i have
[11:20] <Lathiat> is i have widescreen
[11:20] <Lathiat> and nautilus wont do a "full screen aspect scaled"
[11:20] <Lathiat> so i have to manually edit bg images
[11:20] <Amaranth> i didn't get any referer check
[11:20] <Treenaks> Lathiat: yes it will
[11:20] <Lathiat> which is such effort
[11:21] <Lathiat> Treenaks: no it doesn
[11:21] <Lathiat> Treenaks: how?
[11:21] <Treenaks> Lathiat: yes it does
[11:21] <Lathiat> which option
[11:21] <Mez> hmm
[11:21] <Treenaks> Lathiat: scaled
[11:21] <Lathiat> that leaves bars down the side
[11:21] <Treenaks> Lathiat: which is scaled + aspect ratio maintained
[11:21] <Lathiat> i said
[11:21] <bob2> so, how about that local ubuntu development team?
[11:21] <Lathiat> *full screen*
[11:21] <Lathiat> i.e.
[11:21] <Lathiat> stretches it out
[11:22] <Lathiat> and crops some of the edge off
[11:22] <Treenaks> Lathiat: stretch?
[11:22] <Lathiat> Treenaks: that doesnt keep aspect
[11:22] <Lathiat> i tried to figure out how to patch it and failed
[11:22] <Treenaks> Lathiat: hm ok
[11:23] <Mez> Amaranth I know it's faked
[11:25] <Mez> aw poop! I just realsie din my disk crash -= I lost all my pr0n - noo
[11:26] <Lathiat> at least its easy to do in the gimp
[11:26] <Lathiat> i resize to 1680 wide
[11:26] <Lathiat> and then use the canvas size thign to crop it
[11:26] <Lathiat> and i can move where it crops it
[11:26] <Lathiat> which is cool
[11:27] <Amaranth> Mez: When I did the Great Setting Purge of May (rm -rf ~/.*) I lost all my pr0n (was in ~/.pr0n) :/
[11:27] <Mez> lmao
[11:27] <Mez> Amaranth, I did something similar to that :D
[11:28] <Mez> but... I did rm -rf /bin 
[11:28] <Mez> instead of rm -rf /*.bin
[11:28] <Lathiat> you keep your pr0n in /bin/pr0n ?
[11:28] <Mez> no
[11:28] <Lathiat> i guess you needed /bin/pornview
[11:28] <Mez> I just deleted something I shouldnt have by accident
[11:28] <Mez> :P
[11:28] <Treenaks> Lathiat: /srv/ftp/pr0n/ of course
[11:28] <Mez> Treenaks : is that publically accessible ?:P
[11:29] <Lathiat> heh
[11:29] <Lathiat> who uses /srv
[11:29] <Lathiat> thats like
[11:29] <Treenaks> Mez: of course not
[11:29] <Lathiat> against the LSB or something
[11:29] <Mez> Treenaks, damn
[11:29] <Treenaks> Lathiat: /srv is the new coolness
[11:29] <Treenaks> Lathiat: it's not against LSB..
[11:29] <Lathiat> isnt that a djb thing
[11:29] <Lathiat> i hate djb with a passion
[11:29] <Lathiat> only because he writes about things he has no idea about
[11:29] <Lathiat> like his ipv6 rant
[11:30] <Treenaks> Lathiat: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#SRVDATAFORSERVICESPROVIDEDBYSYSTEM
[11:30] <Lathiat> Treenaks: bah
[11:30] <Lathiat> i retract my comment
[11:31] <Lathiat> wow
[11:31] <Lathiat> i have a /srv
[11:31] <Lathiat> i didnt know that
[11:31] <Lathiat> so i should have /srv/www not /var/www ?
[11:31] <Treenaks> Lathiat: the apache packages don't know about that
[11:31] <Treenaks> Lathiat: but I imagine it would be eventually, yes
[11:31] <Lathiat> i know
[11:31] <Lathiat> but i should, in theory right
[11:32] <Treenaks> Lathiat: /srv/www/vhost1 /srv/www/vhost2 or something
[11:32] <Lathiat> right
[11:32] <Kamion> it's up to the local admin to configure stuff in /srv
[11:32] <Treenaks> I think this was introduced around the same time as /media/
[11:32] <Lathiat>  /media is cool
[11:32] <ivoks> hi all
[11:33] <Lathiat> largely cus gamin doesnt eat file handles
[11:33] <Kamion> many people do things like /srv/$HOSTNAME
[11:33] <Treenaks> Kamion: yes, but stuff like apache's suexec don't cope with it yet
[11:33] <Lathiat> Kamion: yeh i noticed fd.o do that
[11:33] <Treenaks> doesn't
[11:33] <Amaranth> hey, i have a /srv
[11:33] <ivoks> we all do :)
[11:33] <ivoks> what is /srv for? :)
[11:34] <Amaranth> i don't want a /srv!
[11:34] <Amaranth> get rid of it!
[11:34] <Treenaks> Amaranth: you know how rmdir works, right/
[11:34] <ivoks> Kamion: i noticed few bugs in installer (they are reported on bugzilla), so i'll be here for some time, if you need additional info
[11:34] <Lathiat> im sure the next incarnation of base-common or whatever it is will pu tit back ;p
[11:34] <Amaranth> Treenaks: That'll do evil things.
[11:34] <JaneW> ***Nag Alert***
[11:35] <ogra> JaneW, ?
[11:35] <JaneW> Could all those responsible to deliver Breezy Goals please...
[11:35] <JaneW> Please head over to: 
[11:35] <JaneW> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals 
[11:35] <JaneW> 1. Make sure your status indicator is up to date.
[11:35] <JaneW> 2. Add a line or 2 to the notes section of your BreezyGoal to ensure
[11:35] <JaneW> that it's reflecting the current activity on that goal, so that we all
[11:35] <JaneW> know where it stands, and 
[11:35] <JaneW> 3. Please prefix your comment with the date, so we can easily see when
[11:35] <JaneW> last a goal was updated. 
[11:35] <Lathiat> What is this some kind of organized organization?
[11:35] <Kamion> ivoks: at least two of them are duplicates I'm afraid
[11:36] <JaneW> As you should know the code freeze for the Breezy Release is on
[11:36] <JaneW> 11 August 2005 - that's less than one month from now.
[11:36] <Kamion> JaneW: code freeze != feature freeze
[11:36] <JaneW> Lathiat: that's the end goal yes
[11:36] <Mez> hmmles
[11:36] <ivoks> Kamion: that's great then.. sorry, i checked for reported... :(
[11:36] <Mez> whats the difference between using libgtkhtml3.8-dev and libgtkhtml-dev for a build-Depends ?
[11:36] <JaneW> Kamion: oops, so is it Feature Freeze....?
[11:36] <ogra> Lathiat, we try to :)
[11:37] <Lathiat> JaneW, ogra: :)
[11:37] <Kamion> JaneW: yes
[11:38] <diarrhoe> will smart-batteries be supported in breezy?
[11:38] <JaneW> Kamion: sorry my mistake...
[11:38] <JaneW> Lathiat: although once achieved we may spontaneously combust...
[11:38] <seb128> Mez: libgtkhtml-dev is a GNOME 1 lib
[11:38] <seb128> Mez: libgtkhtml3.8-dev is the current version
[11:39] <Mez> so I should use 3.8-dev ?
[11:39] <Lathiat> yUP
[11:39] <Mez> ah ok
[11:39] <\sh> Kamion: u said the package (gfccore) is in the NEW queue? can u move it from the new queue? cause it's a g++ lib which I renamed
[11:39] <Kamion> \sh: when I have time
[11:39] <\sh> Kamion: thx
[11:39] <Kamion> \sh: it's like the most recent thing in the NEW queue, other stuff has higher priority
[11:40] <Lathiat> theres 3.6 too
[11:40] <seb128> Mez: don't do this
[11:40] <seb128> Mez: why 3.2 ?
[11:40] <Mez> 3.2 = last version in hoary
[11:41] <Mez> 3.2 is not in breezy
[11:41] <seb128> Mez: no way
[11:41] <Mez> and 3.8 is not in hoary
[11:41] <seb128> Mez: 3.6 for hoary
[11:41] <Mez> sorry: using 3.2 as that was the original depends :D
[11:42] <Mez> I can just put it as 3.6| 3.8
[11:42] <Mez> or just 3.6
[11:42] <Kamion> newest first
[11:42] <Mez> ah :D
[11:42] <Mez> yes :D
[11:42] <Mez> the debian package askes for 3.2 :D
[11:42] <Kamion> and you should be changing build-depends where appropriate for backporting
[11:43] <Mez> yes I know :D
[11:43] <seb128> Mez: I'm against putting | .. | ... just for backports
[11:43] <Mez> that's why I am
[11:43] <Kamion> no, you're not, you're putting the backport build-depends in the main package
[11:43] <Mez> Kamion, as mz said to...
[11:43] <Mez> because we dont have upload access...
[11:44] <ogra> Kamion, could you look at #12642 ? i guess there is a reason anacron gets stopped at 11 and started at 89...
[11:44] <Kamion> which means that if both -dev package happen to be in breezy then the result of building the package in breezy is at best indeterminate
[11:44] <Kamion> ogra: sorry, flat-out here
[11:44] <ogra> oki
[11:44] <Mez> we've just got to chang eit in breezy so it builds from scratch
[11:44] <ogra> sorry
[11:44] <Kamion> Mez: boggle
[11:44] <Kamion> mdz: could you please clarify?
[11:44] <Mez> and Kamion hence why I did 3.2|3.8 3.2 is not in breezy, 3.8 is not in hoary
[11:44] <seb128> Mez: don't change an official package for backports
[11:44] <Kamion> Mez: that MUST be the other way round
[11:44] <seb128> Mez: just 3.8
[11:45] <Mez> yeah, I meant the other way round
[11:45] <Lathiat> Mez: 3.6 is in hoary, for a start
[11:45] <Kamion> mdz: surely backports folks will be getting upload access
[11:45] <Lathiat> Mez: so at the very least, 3.8 | 3.6
[11:45] <seb128> no
[11:45] <seb128> 3.8 and that's it
[11:45] <Lathiat> Mez: But seb128 is saying, you shouldnt change it, and put 3.6 in if you upload a backport
[11:45] <Lathiat> Mez: and leave the main one as 3.8 ONLY
[11:45] <Mez> we're not uploading backports though
[11:45] <seb128> or we start putting | for Debian too, and for hoary, and for backports, and for ...
[11:46] <Lathiat> Mez: exactly, but if you, or someone does, they can modify it themselves
[11:46] <ogra> Kamion, a i understood it, backports are done automatically from the next dev version and the backports guys have to trigger a build
[11:46] <bob2> is backport main upload access distinct to main upload access?
[11:46] <bob2> ah
[11:46] <ogra> Kamion, so fixing stuff to compile on a older vrsion is up to MOTU or main devs
[11:46] <Kamion> ogra: meh, ok, that's going to be ... uh, interesting
[11:47] <ogra> Kamion, i probably understood it wrong, lets wait for mdz's word :)
[11:48] <Mez> Lathiat I was told that noone would have upload access - it's be built automatically from breezy - and if it didn't build from scratch, we had to change it to build from scratch by changing breezy
[11:48] <Mez> ogra: nope, its up to the backporters to fix it tow ork on an oolder versin
[11:48] <Kamion> I see
[11:48] <seb128> backport gtkhtml3.8 so
[11:48] <ogra> Mez, thats not how i understood your log....
[11:49] <Mez> aw poop
[11:49] <seb128> but don't mess the Build-Depends for all the other packages
[11:49] <Mez> ogra, can you send me a copy abck ? and I'll post it
[11:49] <Mez> hmm
[11:49] <Mez> lol ..
[11:49] <Kamion> backporting libraries doesn't seem like a great idea
[11:50] <seb128> Kamion: messing main packages and creating sync work from Debian for this neither
[11:50] <Mez> this thing actualyl asks for libgtkhtml-3.1 in the ./configure
[11:50] <Kamion> but I have sympathy for seb128's viewpoint, build-depends are primarily for the distribution to which the package was uploaded
[11:50] <Mez> so it seems like that's going to have to be chnaged
[11:50] <Lathiat> Mez: its usually a >= thing
[11:50] <Mez> I understand seb's POV too
[11:50] <Mez> Lathiat - yeah :D but in this it's bitching for the certain version
[11:50] <ogra> Mez, sent
[11:51] <Kamion> my preferred option would be for backporters to be able to override just the build-depends, or something similar
[11:52] <Xof> clhs null
[11:52] <Xof> oops, sorry
[11:52] <Mez> one sec, lemme get that log and post it somewhere
[11:52] <ogra> my preferred option would be that backporters have to go at least through the MOTU process to make sure they know what they are doing
[11:52] <Kamion> mdz: are we putting hppa kernel udebs in main or universe?
[11:53] <Mez> ogra: we DONT have direct upload to backports
[11:53] <Mez> hence if WE want to make changes we do need to go though MOTU
[11:53] <ogra> Mez, i know...
[11:53] <ogra> Mez, yes, and i'd like you to do them yourelf ;)
[11:54] <ogra> so you should be a MOTU :)
[11:54] <ogra> Mez, but i dont need to tell you this, youre already on your way :)
[11:55] <Mez> http://www.sourceguru.net/stuff/10/chat-with-mdz-log
[11:55] <Mez> that's the log
[11:56] <Mez> aw poosticks
[11:57] <Amaranth> way to not escape < and >
[11:57] <Mez> Jul 08 10:48:26 <mdz>for cases where the package doesnt build out of the box on hoary, you will need to make changes in breezy
[11:58] <rob^> has offical backports been confirmed for Breezy yet?
[11:58] <Mez> Amaranth, fixed :D I thought TextPatter would do it
[11:58] <Mez> rob^, I'm sure that when developemnt on breezy+1 starts, we'll start backports for breezy
[11:59] <rob^> Mez, but will it be on an offical Ubuntu server or like it is now?
[11:59] <ogra> rob^, the question is how official they get :)
[11:59] <Mez> rob^,  it's moving onto an official server now (and we'll be uilding as soon as elmo wakes up)
[11:59] <ogra> rob^, they are on a official server then, but i doubt they will be officially supported in any kind
[12:00] <ogra> davyd, cdimag.ubuntu.com ?
[12:00] <rob^> ok, when will a list of packages be available (obviously not for a while)?
[12:00] <ogra> davyd, cdimage.ubuntu.com 
[12:00] <davyd> ogra: trying to find a more local copy
[12:00] <ogra> ah
[12:00] <Lathiat> davyd: mirror.pacific.net.au
[12:00] <davyd> Lathiat: any more local still?
[12:00] <Lathiat> davyd: its still waix
[12:01] <davyd> Lathiat: does UWA have images?
[12:01] <Lathiat> davyd: not afaik
[12:01] <Lathiat> they only mirror the archive
[12:01] <davyd> hmm, seems not
[12:01] <davyd> pity
[12:01] <Mez> ogra: I doubt they'll ever be officially supported
[12:02] <ogra> Mez, yes, thats what i said
[12:02] <Nafallo> davyd: apt-get install jigit? :-)
[12:03] <bob2> Mez: dude, w32codecs in multiverse is insane
[12:04] <bob2> Mez: what do you think the chances of getting permissions to distribute them from MS, AOL, Real and every other .DLL copyright holder is?
[12:04] <davyd> Nafallo: nah, I've found one close enough, now it just seems that my homedir isn't mounted on the machine I'm trying to suck it do
[12:04] <Amaranth> those things go into 'hoary-extras'
[12:04] <davyd> *to
[12:04] <davyd> :(
[12:04] <Treenaks> bob2: if you don't try...
[12:04] <Amaranth> which will use the hosts they have now
[12:04] <Amaranth> according to jdong
[12:04] <Lathiat> davyd: see, you should have a cd burner in your laptop ;)
[12:04] <bob2> I don't think any one in the world has permission to distribute it
[12:04] <davyd> Lathiat: I do, but I want to suck it down, and then walk there and burn it
[12:04] <davyd> not have to sit there for hours
[12:05] <Amaranth> Kamion: yay!
[12:05] <Lathiat> just suck it to martello
[12:05] <Lathiat> it'l only takes 5 minutes anyway
[12:05] <davyd> Lathiat: I want to put it on /away
[12:05] <rob^> bob2, thats the problem with have with the docs at the moment, which is why I wanted to know where backports is heading
[12:05] <Lathiat> mirror.pacific flies
[12:05] <Treenaks> Lathiat: I got a dual-layer DVD writer in my laptop.. never use it
[12:05] <Lathiat> davyd: move it when you get there?
[12:05] <davyd> Lathiat: yeah, sure
[12:05] <Lathiat> Treenaks: i have one too, and i use it daily
[12:05] <davyd> Lathiat: why abuse the network?
[12:05] <Lathiat> well, once every 2 or 3 days at least
[12:05] <Treenaks> Lathiat: what do you burn?
[12:05] <davyd> if I don't have a homedir on the workstations, it's not much use anyway
[12:06] <Lathiat> Treenaks: lots of things
[12:06] <Lathiat> depending on the time
[12:06] <ogra> bob2, sure MS has
[12:06] <Mez> whats the & code for a | ?
[12:06] <Lathiat> various os cds, backup cds, archiving files, testing ubuntu install cds on other machines
[12:06] <bob2> ogra: MS gave you permission to freely distribute their .DLLs?
[12:06] <Lathiat> davyd: dude its like 100mbit, its hardly abusive
 I don't think any one in the world has permission to distribute it
[12:07] <ogra> they have :)
[12:07] <davyd> Lathiat: loving remember the network of ye ole' time
[12:07] <bob2> ogra: no, they don't have permission to distribute the Real codecs
[12:07] <bob2> etc
[12:07] <Treenaks> bob2: MS has permission to distribute MS codecs. Real for Real codecs, etc.
[12:07] <Lathiat> davyd: could goto ucc and suck it into your laptop and go back home :)
[12:07] <ogra> bob2, real is in w32codecs ?
[12:07] <davyd> I may as well go there and suck it onto my laptop
[12:07] <Burgundavia> ogra, yes
[12:07] <Lathiat> bing
[12:07] <ogra> oh
[12:07] <Burgundavia> ogra, and apple stuff
[12:07] <davyd> Lathiat: yeah
[12:08] <Lathiat> bah
[12:08] <bob2> ogra: yes
[12:08] <ogra> that happens if you never use illegal stuf...tsk...
[12:08] <Lathiat> i just spent 7 hours building this kernel
[12:08] <davyd> although, it's wet, I didn't want to take my laptop to UCC...
[12:08] <bob2> Treenaks: right, my point is no one has permission to distributed the aggregate
[12:08] <Lathiat> only to hav eit fail at the end with an undefined reference to 'release_task'
[12:08] <Lathiat> bleh
[12:08] <davyd> Lathiat: dude, cross compiler
[12:08] <Lathiat> when linking the kernel
[12:08] <Lathiat> davyd: find me breezy compatible packages
[12:08] <Burgundavia> but the cleanroom patent-infringing only stuff should be find
[12:08] <Burgundavia> fine
[12:08] <Lathiat> Burgundavia: 'cleanroom' ?
[12:09] <Treenaks> bob2: true.. but then we could split the .deb into parts & ask the vendors to distribute it
[12:09] <davyd> Lathiat: remind me later on and I'll find them for you
[12:09] <Treenaks> bob2: or ask them for permission separately
[12:09] <Burgundavia> Lathiat, stuff that was reverse-engineered and not "acquired"
[12:09] <Treenaks> bob2: which I think nobody has even tried yet
[12:09] <davyd> I did have them
[12:09] <bob2> Treenaks: sure, that's worth a try
[12:09] <Burgundavia> real and apple will probably say no
[12:09] <Lathiat> Burgundavia: which is none of w32codecs
[12:09] <davyd> only gcc-3.4 though
[12:09] <bob2> but it annoys me when people think it's cool to bliethly distribute it
[12:10] <Burgundavia> Lathiat, I was thinking of libdvd and the gstreamer stuff
[12:10] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: Real might say yes -> RealPlayer is shipped with the free SuSE ISOs as well
[12:10] <Lathiat> Burgundavia: right, ffmpeg, etc
[12:10] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, they might say yes to realplayer, but not to just the codecs
[12:10] <Lathiat> Treenaks: isnt that helix which is free anyway?
[12:10] <Treenaks> Lathiat: yes, it is
[12:10] <Burgundavia> Lathiat, not the real codec
[12:10] <tseng> helix doesnt support anything more than we already do
[12:10] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: SuSE distributes the codecs too, and Sun Java, and lots of stuff like that
[12:11] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, what I am saying is that they are distributing realplayer with codecs, not just codecs for another player (thus real looses all their branding)
[12:11] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: oh true, but the codecs are .so files
[12:11] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:11] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: so it's not hard to "patch them in"..
[12:12] <bob2> so, instead of speculating on irc, go email them!
[12:12] <Lathiat> but that might bnto be allowed....
[12:12] <Lathiat> theyre license may only permit redistribution in whole form
[12:12] <Burgundavia> better to support the reverse engineering efforts I think
[12:13] <Lathiat>  thats grey in some place stoo
[12:13] <Lathiat> depend son the country
[12:13] <Burgundavia> but w32codecs is black
[12:25] <davyd> mm, 1 MB/s
[12:25] <davyd> it's a nice speed
[12:25] <Lathiat> slow
[12:25] <Lathiat> i've sucked over like 10M before
[12:26] <davyd> I blame manbo ;)
[12:29] <JanC> Apple will never give permission for all the quicktime codecs, as many of those codecs aren't owned by them
[12:47] <Kamion> daniels: the epoch-matching in libxrender seems a bit redundant given that the version you uploaded is lower than that in Debian anyway?
[12:51] <seb128> any reason to not assign kubuntu bugs to the kubuntu-bugs list or something?
[12:51] <seb128> keeping them assigned to debzilla create a lot of noise on the "unassigned bugs"
[12:52] <Riddell> seb128: generally I think they're assigned to me with kubuntu-bugs as QA
[12:52] <Kamion> they generally are already
[12:52] <Riddell> seb128: assigning to kubuntu-bugs is also fine if bugzilla can do that
[12:52] <Kamion> assuming the submitter selected the option to file them on Kubuntu, as opposed to Ubuntu with a KDE package
[12:52] <seb128> Riddell: not by default, there is a bunch of kdelibs bug assigned to debzilla
[12:52] <Kamion> seb128: "default" not meaningful
[12:52] <seb128> Riddell: yep, what do you prefer? I'm going to change the default for some stuff
[12:52] <Kamion> as I say there are two possible ways one can file bugs on kdelibs ...
[12:53] <seb128> Kamion: hum? any case it should be assigned to somebody and not debzilla
[12:53] <Riddell> seb128: assigning to kubuntu-bugs gives it a community feel
[12:53] <ogra> Kamion, in any case kubuntu should care for the kdelibs bugs, no matter how they got filed
[12:53] <seb128> Riddell: k, I'll change for that 
[12:53] <Riddell> I need to have a major kubuntu-bugs cleanup
[12:54] <ogra> Riddell, ITS BUG DAY !! do it now :)
[12:55] <Riddell> ogra: it is?  well it's on the end of my todo list, I'll see if I get down to it
[12:57] <Riddell> ogra: sending to kubuntu-devel too would be good actually, I'm not always up to date on ubuntu-devel
[12:57] <ogra> Riddell, ok, will do for the next one....
[01:00] <mirak> hello
[01:00] <mirak> I have some problems with toolchain
[01:00] <mirak> anyone use it here ?
[01:04] <Kamion> no, no developers use the toolchain ever ;-)
[01:04] <Treenaks> sed + awk are excellent compilers ;)
[01:05] <Treenaks> (hm.. would that be possible? a C-compiler written in awk..)
[01:08] <mirak> I just want to cross compile
[01:09] <mirak> there is very few understandable docs
[01:35] <JanC> Treenaks : I only know about a C-compiler written in python  :)
[01:36] <Treenaks> JanC: I know of a webserver in postscript
[01:36] <Treenaks> JanC: (inetd-based)
[01:39] <JanC> http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~varmaa/mini_c/
[01:41] <jbailey> fabbione: pong
[01:45] <fabbione> hi jbailey
[01:45] <fabbione> jbailey: the last glibc upload will fix that ld.so problem?
[01:46] <fabbione> (on amd64 i mean)
[01:46] <jbailey> No - I still cannot reproduce it.
[01:46] <jbailey> That last upload was the fix a hang in mysql (and other threaded apps) in hoary
[01:47] <fabbione> jbailey: i can reproduce it constantly on concordia chroot
[01:47] <fabbione> and you can also see it on some build logs...
[01:47] <fabbione> like ocfs2-tools
[01:47] <fabbione> just installing some pkgs can cause the error
[01:47] <jbailey> Right, but I don't have the rights to install packages on any amd64 box.
[01:47] <jbailey> And the kernel build didn't fail for me.
[01:48] <fabbione> try to rebuild until it shows up ?
[01:48] <fabbione> it comes to me at least once a build...
[01:48] <jbailey> The best I was able to do was to have mv segfault on my  irreproducably.
[01:48] <jbailey> s/my/me/
[01:48] <fabbione> ok i guess i need to start building in verbose
[01:49] <fabbione> anyway i have a more interesting problem for you
[01:49] <fabbione> i did try the following installation on a laptop
[01:49] <fabbione> with hda (internal hd) with only /boot and swap
[01:49] <fabbione> the rest on an lvm volume on an external (usb) device
[01:49] <fabbione> the installation is perfect...
[01:50] <fabbione> the problem is the first reboot
[01:50] <fabbione> initrd contains all the correct modules to get sda up (usb disk)
[01:50] <fabbione> but the pivot_root is called way too fast
[01:50] <fabbione> before the device is scanned and initialized by the kernel
[01:50] <fabbione> how can i introduce an arbitrary delay there?
[01:51] <fabbione> between loadmodules and "pivot_root"
[01:51] <Mez> lol - fabbione I had the same propbelm
[01:52] <Mez> cause the USB disk counts as a SATA drive, then it causes problems with pivot_root as it doesn't seem to like SATA drives
[01:52] <Mez> *shrugs*
[01:52] <fabbione> it's not SATA
[01:52] <fabbione> it's pure SCSI over USB
[01:52] <jbailey> fabbione: Is there any reasonable way to just detect that the drive isn't ready but will be shortly so I can sleep automatically?
[01:52] <jbailey> fabbione: Given all the efforts to reduce boot time, I'd hate to introduce an arbitrary sleep 1 everywhere.
[01:52] <Mez> fabbione, well, it clases it as SATA (or is it SCSI) becaus eit's USB
[01:53] <Mez> jbailey, doesnt one distro have a seven second boot?
[01:53] <Riddell> Kamion: how can I find out why all the KDE packages are listed on breezy_probs.html ?
[01:53] <fabbione> jbailey: if you can first tell how to insert the sleep i can first check that the initrd is good 100% :)
[01:53] <jbailey> Mez: No idea.  I don't actually care about bootspeed outside of embedded devices.
[01:54] <jbailey> And in those cases, 7 seconds seems like a really long time. =)
[01:54] <fabbione> jbailey: at that stage i am not sure what facilities you have to check what's going on.. SCSI devices might take an arbitatry amount of time to settle
[01:54] <Mez> lol @ jbailey
[01:54] <fabbione> Mez: it's SCSI <- over USB-
[01:54] <jbailey> fabbione: If it's SCSI, there should be a way of asking the bus if the devices are in the ready state.
[01:54] <fabbione> jbailey: well the SCSI layer is an emulation ...
[01:55] <fabbione> it could easily be a real ATA device on the other end
[01:55] <Mez> fabbione, that's it... yeah - I had the same problem... device not found or some poo like that
[01:56] <jbailey> fabbione: Sure, but I imagine that the worst you get is a false positive - so no worse than we have now.
[01:56] <jbailey> A false negative would be the only concern.
[01:56] <jbailey> Causing the system to just hang there waiting for drives.
[01:56] <fabbione> jbailey: yup.. ok.. how can i add that sleep now? ;)
[01:56] <fabbione> i just want to see it working
[01:56] <jbailey> fabbione: Patience, my smurf.
[01:56] <jbailey> fabbione: Are you sure the mount succeeds?
[01:57] <fabbione> jbailey: yes master
[01:57] <fabbione> jbailey: what mount?
[01:57] <jbailey> ISTM that you'd want the sleep before the mount, not the pivot_root
[01:57] <jbailey> mounting the root
[01:57] <jbailey> partition
[01:57] <fabbione> well i need to sleep before the call to vgchange -a y
[01:58] <fabbione> because otherwise the vg isn't initialized properly
[01:58] <jbailey> feh, lvm. =)
[01:58] <fabbione> and that would make the / device not available
[01:58] <jbailey> (I did get my laptop installed with lvm yesterday.  New installer option makes that very nice)
[01:58] <fabbione> (did you like it? ;))
[01:59] <jbailey> Not so far, but that's mostly because I was finishing the debootstrap by hand to work around an installer bug, and gnome won't install because some things need syncrhonising. =)
[01:59] <jbailey> Nothing to do with lvm, though, just the annoyance of having my laptop in a less than useful state.
[01:59] <fabbione> no i mean.. if you liked the autopartitioning with lvm :)
[02:00] <fabbione> i had to workaround this installation too.. with shadowconf on inside the target chroot
[02:00] <jbailey> Yeah.
[02:00] <fabbione> and it's there where i am "stocked" atm...
[02:00] <Mez> but when I tried it ... it managed to get me stuck on the partitioner
[02:00] <Mez> (and lvm reported that there was nothing on my hard disks)
[02:01] <jbailey> Mez: Sounds like my first attempt.  Are you on ppc?
[02:01] <Mez> nope
[02:01] <Mez> and I cant be arsed witha  reinstall now
[02:01] <Mez> (even though I do have a complete backup of my systenm
[02:02] <jbailey> fabbione: Is the vgchange the first access to the drive with lvm on it?
[02:03] <fabbione> jbailey: i think so yes..
[02:03] <fabbione> i am considering to make vgchange a dash script with sleep in and wrap the call to the real vgchange
[02:03] <fabbione> since the call to vgchange happens in script
[02:03] <Mez> jbailey - Am on k7 :D
[02:04] <fabbione> and i have no idea who/what executes it
[02:04] <jbailey> fabbione: You need to edit /usr/sbin/mkinitrd then and insert the sleeps before each instance of vgchance.  There are two sections in there, one for lvm and one for device mapper.
[02:04] <Kamion> Riddell: apt-get install them in a clean chroot
[02:04] <jbailey> The lvm stuff is all detected and dynamically generated for the lvm, so it doesn't cleanly exist in its own script.
[02:05] <Kamion> Riddell: you don't need to wait for them to install all the way - it'll throw an error immediately on breakage
[02:05] <Kamion> Riddell: oh, and make sure the chroot's sources.list does not include universe or multiverse
[02:07] <Riddell> Kamion: ah, universe might be the issue.  will investigate. thanks
[02:07] <fabbione> jbailey: can't i just edit inside the initrd? or do i really need to regenerate?
[02:07] <fabbione> jbailey: in the initrd there is only one call to vgchange.. in /script
[02:08] <fabbione> but who does execute that file?
[02:08] <fabbione> and with what shell?
[02:11] <jbailey> fabbione: The shell inside the initrd is dash unless you've enabled busybox.
[02:11] <jbailey> fabbione: Sure, you can edit inside the initrd if you want.  I just find it easier to edit mkinitrd and friends and apt-get --reinstall the kernel.  Less to think about, and no fussing with loop devices, etc.
[02:12] <fabbione> jbailey: well for me it's not an option to reinstall the kernel from d-i all the time :)
[02:12] <fabbione> jbailey: /script: line 12: sleep command not found
[02:12] <fabbione> it means that it's not executed with dash
[02:12] <fabbione> (i didn't change the default shell)
[02:13] <jbailey> sleep isn't a built-in with dash, I don' think.
[02:13] <jbailey> it's usually /bin/sleep
[02:13] <fabbione> oh right...
[02:13] <jbailey> I'm surprsied it's not in there, though./
[02:14] <fabbione> impressive.. sleep is linked with more stuff than ls
[02:14] <fabbione> or almost :)
[02:14] <jbailey> Eh?  Why does sleep need -lm ?
[02:15] <fabbione> don't look at me that way.. i didn't write it :)
[02:20] <Kamion> subsecond sleeps
[02:20] <fabbione> jbailey: do i need to add more libs for libm ?
[02:21] <fabbione> Kamion: sleep never accepted less than a sec sleep...
[02:21] <fabbione> Kamion: probably for keeping track of secs?
[02:21] <Kamion>        Pause for NUMBER seconds.  SUFFIX may be s for seconds (the default),
[02:21] <Kamion>        m for minutes, h for hours or d for days.  Unlike most  implemen
[02:21] <Kamion>        tations  that require NUMBER be an integer, here NUMBER may be an arbi
[02:21] <Kamion>        trary floating point number.
[02:21] <Kamion> see the last sentence
[02:22] <Kamion> $ time -p sleep 0.1
[02:22] <Kamion> real 0.10
[02:22] <jbailey> fabbione: I don't think we copy libm to the initrd right now.
[02:22] <fabbione> no we don't..
[02:22] <jbailey> ldd is recursive, so it'll show all the libraries you need (assuming nothing is dlopen'd)
[02:24] <fabbione> jbailey: i added libm and for the sake sleep 20 || dash
[02:24] <fabbione> so in the worst i get to a shell
[02:24] <jbailey> 'k
[02:24] <Amaranth> if xserver-xorg is a dummy package that can be removed x-window-system-core shouldn't depend on it
[02:25] <Amaranth> oh, i guess i should file a bug report or something
[02:25] <jbailey> Amaranth: =)
[02:25] <Kamion> it's much simpler for x-w-s-c to depend on that rather than keeping track of all the driver deps
[02:26] <Kamion> x-window-system-core is also a dummy package ...
[02:26] <Amaranth> it's so nice being able to only install the ati driver
[02:27] <Amaranth> i'd better get vesa too though in case i switch cards
[02:27] <fabbione> jbailey: AHHHH i think i got it... it's missing librt too, but other than that.. now i noticed that it's missing the usb module for the host controller...
[02:28] <Amaranth> wow, you have to be careful upgrading to -36, it doesn't even install the mouse and keyboard input drivers by default
[02:30] <jbailey> The dependancy on -lm is spurious.
[02:31] <Kamion> Amaranth: yes, as I said above
[02:31] <Kamion> xorg -37 is accepted for i386 and powerpc
[02:31] <jbailey> It needs -lrt for clock_gettime, though.
[02:33] <Amaranth> so is the end goal having d-i figure out what xorg packages to install?
[02:33] <Kamion> Amaranth: I sincerely hope not
[02:33] <Kamion> hello, madness
[02:33] <Amaranth> well, not d-i itself
[02:33] <ogra> heh
[02:33] <seb128> Kamion: are gnome-control-center 1:2.11.5-0ubuntu3 and totem 1.1.2-0ubuntu5 waiting on new processing?
[02:34] <seb128> Kamion: I've changed the binary packages
[02:34] <Kamion> seb128: I already did gnome-control-center
[02:34] <Kamion> seb128: totem is in NEW
[02:34] <seb128> can you accept it?
[02:34] <Kamion> looking
[02:34] <seb128> I've splitted libtotem-plparser to a new package
[02:34] <seb128> so rhythmbox can Depends on the lib instead of totem
[02:35] <fabbione> seb128: hey dude.. got my mail?
[02:35] <seb128> fabbione: yeah, is that a "can you patch now", or "or patch for the next upload in a few days" ?
[02:35] <Amaranth> oops
[02:35] <fabbione> seb128: "next upload" is fine..
[02:35] <Kamion> seb128: you only need a Replaces on totem-{gstreamer,xine}, not both Conflicts and Replaces
[02:35] <seb128> fabbione: k, cool
[02:36] <fabbione> seb128: thanks a lot
[02:36] <seb128> np
[02:36] <seb128> Kamion: does the Conflicts hurts? It prevents downgrade breaks
[02:36] <Kamion> seb128: that dpkg bug has been fixed, you can stop working around it
[02:37] <Kamion> seb128: the Conflicts makes upgrades painful
[02:37] <seb128> k
[02:37] <Kamion> seb128: also I think the version on the Replaces is wrong - shouldn't it be << ubuntu5?
[02:37] <seb128> Should I fix it now and reupload or for next upload ?
[02:37] <Kamion> next upload's fine
[02:37] <Kamion> although given the Replaces bug you might want that to be quite soon ;)
[02:37] <seb128> ups
[02:38] <seb128> right
[02:38] <seb128> can you reject this one, so I reupload with this fix ?
[02:38] <seb128> or I just upload a new version
[02:39] <Kamion> oh, too late, I just accepted it
[02:39] <Kamion> sorry
[02:39] <seb128> np, I'll upload a new one now
[02:39] <jbailey> Hmm.  sleep and tail both include -lm unnecessary.  Looks like historical magic.
[02:40] <fabbione> jbailey: ok i got it.. and i found another bug too
[02:41] <fabbione> jbailey: i will let you know quite soon about the sleep, but it might not be required at all
[02:41] <fabbione> the 2 bugs are: missing USB host controller module
[02:42] <fabbione> and the otherone is/was the missing ide-* modules from being loaded
[02:42] <fabbione> the main issue is that / lives on a USB/SCSI disk.. but /boot is on an ide disk
[02:42] <jbailey> Ah.  Yeah, that won't work for you.
[02:42] <fabbione> so initramfs and/or mkinitrd logic needs to take that into account...
[02:42] <fabbione> or at least should :)
[02:42] <Kamion> infinity: what happens if I REJECT binaries? I assume the reject message only goes to you ...
[02:43] <Kamion> infinity: do you routinely forward them to the maintainer, or is it just a black hole?
[02:43] <jbailey> The mkinitramfs does because it just walks all of the drivers in the system.
[02:43] <jbailey> When detecting  what you think the 'root' is, the decision heuristic gets confused at multiple choice. =)
[02:51] <bddebian> Hello
[02:52] <fabbione> jbailey: yeps.. the sleep is required to give time to the device to settle down and devfs to create the devices...
[02:53] <fabbione> given the sleep it boots perfectly
[02:53] <jbailey> So is the issue scanning the SCSI bus, or the USB bus?
[02:54] <Amaranth> is -37 fixing 'keyboard' vs 'kbd'?
[02:54] <Amaranth> xorg i mean
[02:54] <Kamion> no
[02:54] <Amaranth> oh
[02:54] <Kamion> I wasn't aware of that issue
[02:54] <Amaranth> i just found out what it was
[02:54] <Kamion> the changelog says exactly what I fixed
[02:54] <Amaranth> i had to edit xorg.conf and change the driver to 'kbd'
[02:55] <Amaranth> i ran dpkg-reconfigure a couple times, it always set the driver as 'keyboard'
[02:55] <Kamion> make sure a bug's filed, please
[02:56] <fabbione> Kamion: is there any problem with -changes mailing list?
[02:56] <fabbione> i didn't get a single change since midnight
[02:56] <fabbione> or around that time
[02:57] <infinity> Kamion : It's not terribly common for binaries to get rejected after the source is accepted, really..
[02:57] <infinity> Kamion : Except in odd cases like this, I gues. :)
[02:57] <infinity> s/gues/guess/
[02:58] <infinity> Kamion : In this case, I'd definitely pass the message on, but in most cases, I'd assume a REJECT would come with an IRC conversartion or email to the rejectee.
[02:58] <fabbione> infinity: can we build -37 or should we skip?
[02:59] <infinity> fabbione : If you built -36, build -37.  If you still have -35 installed for your arch, you can probably expect a -38 reasonably soon.
[02:59] <Amaranth> whoops, i left it assigned to daniels 
[02:59] <Kamion> infinity: in this case, a manual reject because the binary is broken, but I couldn't see that until getting the binaries in NEW
[03:00] <Kamion> fabbione: don't know - I've not seen much either
[03:02] <fabbione> Kamion: ok thanks
[03:02] <fabbione> infinity: -35 has been rejected... but i will have it for a little while in my local cache
[03:02] <fabbione> but it was rejected this morning
[03:03] <fabbione> so it's not anywhere really...
[03:03] <fabbione> infinity:  i guess i will wait -38 directly
[03:04] <infinity> -37 will be rejected anyway.
[03:04] <infinity> katie just tossed it on the floor.
[03:05] <Kamion> fabbione: -35 was auto-rejected because there was newer source in the archive
[03:05] <infinity> Kamion : Did you inadvertently manage to turn some binary packages back on or something?
[03:05] <Kamion> infinity: huh? -37's in accepted
[03:05] <infinity> Kamion : THe -37 uploads are all being reject/unaccepted.
[03:06] <infinity> Kamion : Oh, wait.  It's daniels' fault.
[03:06] <Kamion> infinity: oh, I NEWed a batch of binaries which xorg is still building
[03:06] <infinity> Yes, that would be the problem.
[03:06] <infinity> He shoud have turned those off in his most recent xorg upload. :)
[03:06] <Kamion> only ia64 got rejected
[03:06] <infinity> (though, if xorg had beat those to the archive, it would be okay)
[03:06] <Kamion> well, it was a question of NEW queue handling order
[03:06] <infinity> ia64 was rejected, powerpc was unaccepted.
[03:07] <Kamion> meh, hate unaccepts
[03:07] <Kamion> they're still in queue/accepted/, evil confusion
[03:07] <infinity> Yes, I don't think automatic unaccept actually works.
[03:07] <Kamion> I imagine they'll stay there until elmo cleans them up
[03:07] <infinity> I've got 3 emails claiming that powerpc was unaccepted.
[03:07] <infinity> Make that 4.  Just got another.
[03:07] <infinity> YAY.
[03:07] <Kamion> you'll probably get a mail once every half-hour ...
[03:07] <infinity> That would make sense, yes.
[03:08] <Kamion> I am not hard enough to move stuff around in the queue by hand
[03:08] <infinity> The simplest solution is a new xorg, probably.
[03:08] <Kamion> infinity: is daniels at your place, then?
[03:08] <infinity> daniels will be home soon.  But maybe I should just build a -38 that turns those packages off.
[03:08] <infinity> No, he's on his way home after an evening of drunke debauchery.
[03:08] <infinity> s/drunke/drunken/
[03:09] <Kamion> you'll probably keep getting mails anyway, I think unaccepts stay around forever or something
[03:09] <Treenaks> debuggery?
[03:09] <infinity> Ahh, the "do you forward shit to maintainers" email was in relation to the xvinfo REJECT?
[03:09] <Kamion> yes
[03:09] <Kamion> I mailed daniels separately
[03:10] <infinity> Given that REJECT mails are delightfully light on information (I don't see the .changes or anything), I'd have to do some digging to find the person responsible.  Probably easier for you.
[03:11] <infinity> But, I don't much care who does the job.  Just let me know in the reject mails.  I do read them.
[03:11] <infinity> So, as you did (Mail sent to maintainer), or the opposite (Too lazy to mail the maintainer, do some work you slackass buildd maintainer), either works for me.
[03:11] <Kamion> :-)
[03:12] <Kamion> it's a bit of a fundamental problem with this source-only-uploads business, really - have to reject every single buildd upload separately because I didn't get to find out until all of them started building
[03:12] <infinity> Yeah.
[03:12] <daniels> Kamion: i'm told I should probably buy you a drink at some stage
[03:13] <Lathiat> Why doesn't something pull in things like oh sya, xserver-xorg-input-kbd
[03:13] <Amaranth> hahaha
[03:13] <infinity> And I tend to read REJECT mails because in Debian, REJECT mails sent to a buildd almost always mean "DAK BROKE, HELP!"
[03:13] <Amaranth> Lathiat: We've said that a million times.
[03:13] <Kamion> Lathiat: it will, see above conversation for what's going wrong
[03:13] <Lathiat> ah
[03:13] <Lathiat> righto
[03:13] <Amaranth> Lathiat: Make sure you get your display driver and the mouse driver too. :)
[03:13] <Kamion> daniels: I'll settle for knowing what we need to do to turn off the binaries that are making xorg be unaccepted :)
[03:13] <daniels> it's all part of the Great Leap Forward to modularisation
[03:14] <Lathiat> Amaranth: dont need display driver but mouse yeh, got that
[03:14] <daniels> Kamion: to what the what?
[03:14] <infinity> daniels : THere's still breakage.  For starters, xorg is still producing binaries that are now built from other sources.  A -38 that turns those packages off (I can forward you the REJET mail for a nice list) would be nice.
[03:14] <Kamion> oh, if you're sober enough to do it, so much the better
[03:14] <Lathiat> kbd was just an example :)
[03:14] <daniels> Kamion: let me catch up on scrollback
[03:14] <daniels> infinity: oh, that.  yeah, my uploads were sort of assuming xorg would get built by anything else.  gnar.
[03:14] <Kamion> daniels: I NEWed a bunch of modularised X libraries and stuff; xorg's still building them though, so it's getting rejected/unaccepted/depending
[03:14] <infinity> daniels : Stuff cleared NEW in a suboptimal manner.  No big deal.
[03:15] <Amaranth> Lathiat: And if X won't start edit xorg.conf and change Driver 'keyboard' to Driver 'kbd'
[03:15] <Lathiat> Amaranth: yep did that
[03:15] <Lathiat> work snow
[03:16] <Kamion> libxi-dev libxi6 libxi6-dbg libxinerama-dev libxinerama1 libxinerama1-dbg libxres-dev libxres1 libxres1-dbg libxss-dev libxss1 libxss1-dbg
[03:16] <Kamion> ^-- list of packages
[03:16] <Lathiat> has nautilus lost a pmount change
[03:16] <Lathiat> when i hit mount volume it complains about /dev/sda1 not being in /etc/fstab
[03:18] <daniels> Kamion: if the newest xorg int he archive is still -34, we're probably on a winner there
[03:19] <daniels> Kamion: is that the status?
[03:19] <daniels> give me five minutes to feed and dry the dog, get a drink, and download my mail
[03:21] <infinity> daniels : No, the newest in the archive is the hideously-broken -36.
[03:22] <infinity> daniels : -37 was Kamion's upload to fix the xserver-xorg dependency issues.  But it's being REJECTed due to the "still building binaries that now come from elsewhere with higher version numbers" issue.
[03:22] <daniels> oh, right.
[03:23] <daniels> wonder how that will play with some Conflicts/Replaces
[03:23] <infinity> Oh, also, check backscroll.
[03:23] <infinity> Kamion complained about your conflict/replace usage.
[03:23] <infinity> Stuff doing both when all you really needed was "Replaces".
[03:24] <infinity> (And using both just makes the package management system's brain hurt, trying to order things Just Right, do multiple installation passes, etc)
[03:25] <infinity> Note that Keybuk fixed the dpkg bug that led to C/R being used where just R should have been appropriate, so there's no excuse anymore.
[03:28] <daniels> yeah, just saw that, and for xvinfo, too
[03:33] <daniels> test build whirring now
[03:33] <Amaranth> hmm, those should go faster now, right? :)
[03:36] <daniels> yeah, down to 30min flat
[03:36] <daniels> did I ever mention that dpkg is shit at migrating conffiles between packages?
[03:37] <ivoks> ok, maybe it was mentioned, but... xvinfo package?
[03:37] <ivoks> xbase-clients depends on it, and there is no xvinfo package...
[03:37] <sabdfl> hey guys, anybody feeling artistically inspired?
[03:38] <sabdfl> i'm looking for some nice images for the front page of the website
[03:38] <Amaranth> we have artists?
[03:38] <ivoks> sabdfl: ubuntu.com?
[03:38] <seb128> Kamion: I've uploaded a new evolution-data-server with some soname changes, can you get it out of new with the new libcamel1.2-6 libegroupwise1.2-8 to main?
[03:38] <mdz> ogra,Kamion: what's the question?
[03:38] <sabdfl> ivoks: yup
[03:38] <ogra> sabdfl, run a contest
[03:38] <sabdfl> ivoks: banners to link to Kubuntu, and Edubuntu
[03:38] <sabdfl> want to slip them above the circle-of-friends image, same width
[03:39] <Treenaks> sabdfl: hackergotchis?
[03:39] <Treenaks> oh wait
[03:39] <sabdfl> Treenaks: more like banners... have one that says "Partner projects:"
[03:39] <sabdfl> then one for kubuntu
[03:39] <sabdfl> then one for edubuntu
[03:39] <ogra> mdz, how will beackports be handled exactly.... from a technical POV
[03:39] <sabdfl> with their logo's
[03:39] <ivoks> well, everybody could do something
[03:39] <daniels> ivoks: i know, I've seen it
[03:40] <ogra> sabdfl, the edubuntu logo needs adjustment before we use it widely... 
[03:40] <ivoks> daniels: ok, i was pretty sure you did... anyway, thanks
[03:40] <mdz> ogra: the backports team will select packages from breezy to be copied into hoary-backports and built
[03:40] <Kamion> seb128: when it arrives, sure
[03:40] <mdz> ogra: they will send those selections to elmo
[03:40] <sabdfl> ogra: we can fix it when we have finalised it, but it would be good to get it on our front page, even as a draft logo
[03:40] <ogra> sabdfl, e and d need to be closer together... i thin silbs mentioned it in the first review
[03:40] <sabdfl> minor
[03:40] <mdz> ogra: and he will effect the changes in katie
[03:40] <ogra> yep
[03:40] <seb128> Kamion: k, I've already get the ACCEPTED mail from the upload queue
[03:41] <Kamion> mdz: I can't say I'm entirely convinced by the "backport with no changes" plan - I'd kind of prefer them to be able to override build-dependencies somehow
[03:41] <ogra> mdz, but they wont do uploads etc
[03:41] <daniels> Kamion: can I upload the same version, or do I need to rev it higher?
[03:41] <Kamion> daniels: need to rev to -38
[03:41] <Kamion> daniels: I'll mail you the diff if you need it
[03:41] <daniels> Kamion: er, xvinfo, sorry
[03:41] <ogra> mdz, so if a backporter wants to change stuff, he should be MOTU ?
[03:41] <Amaranth> ok, before you do that
[03:41] <seb128> mdz: so they have to mess with Build-Depends on main packages to backport them?
[03:41] <daniels> Kamion: i already have a xorg build spinning with your changes incorporated
[03:41] <Kamion> seb128: yeah, but it doesn't appear in NEW until the binaries upload
[03:41] <seb128> Kamion: k
[03:41] <Kamion> daniels: oh, right - you need to upload -2 for that because source for -1 is already in the archive
[03:41] <mdz> Kamion: my feelings are: 1) many packages will build unchanged, and 2) where possible, we should prefer to preserve hoary-buildability in breezy rather than forking the package
[03:41] <Amaranth> daniels: is Driver 'keyboard' changed to Driver 'kbd' in this one? :)
[03:42] <mdz> seb128: see above
[03:42] <Kamion> mdz: I'm mostly concerned by the approaches people will need to take to do 2)
[03:42] <ogra> mdz, the control files will get huge over time then
[03:42] <ogra> mdz,  a lot of | in there...
[03:42] <seb128> mdz: hum, yeah ... I'm not really happy with that, that create sync work from Debian and wrong Build-Depends for the current distro
[03:42] <Kamion> mdz: and that some of those approaches will adversely affect determinisism of builds in breezy
[03:42] <Kamion> er, determinism
[03:43] <seb128> mdz: wrong Build-Depends beein extra | | | ... not required
[03:43] <mdz> seb128: additional != wrong
[03:43] <mdz> Kamion: the buildds are quite deterministic about how they handle |
[03:44] <mdz> ogra: I think 'huge' is an exaggeration
[03:44] <seb128> yeah, still creating the sync work, I would prefer to give this work to people doing the backports :p
[03:44] <ogra> mdz, i tend to that, yes :)
[03:44] <daniels> Kamion: 'kay
[03:44] <daniels> Kamion: but not the .orig
[03:44] <mdz> seb128: let's try this first, and if it doesn't work well, we'll reconsider the options
[03:45] <seb128> k
[03:45] <ogra> mdz, but we should limit the number of backported versions thn... i wouldnt like to have to regard backports to warty in breezy+10
[03:45] <mdz> I really don't think the changes will be that extreme
[03:45] <\sh> who is responsible now for backports?
[03:45] <mdz> ogra: I don't expect we will do backports for more than one release at a time
[03:45] <ogra> \sh, qgood question
[03:45] <ogra> mdz, ok
[03:45] <mdz> \sh: the same people who have been doing it already
[03:45] <\sh> mdz: jdong?
[03:46] <ogra> mdz, jdong hanst been around for some weeks now
[03:46] <ogra> hasnt even
[03:46] <seb128> mdz: some GNOME libs have changed their soname, and they need to " | previous-version" on all the packages using them by example ... but let's try
[03:46] <daniels> Amaranth: err ... yeah, might as well
[03:46] <daniels> Amaranth: keyboard should still be there though
[03:47] <daniels> oh, bloody hell automake is braindead sometimes
[03:47] <Lathiat> sometimes?
[03:48] <bddebian> heh
[03:48] <daniels> sometimes it's useful
[03:48] <daniels> sometimes it impedes progress, and radiates hate
[03:48] <mdz> ogra: Mez, who you were talking to earlier, is one of the backports folks
[03:49] <ogra> mdz, i know... and he's going for MOTU, but jdong seems not very responsive at all... and he somewhat took the lead
[03:50] <ogra> so i would xpect some more interaction
[03:50] <bddebian> Yeah
[03:51] <daniels> sometimes automake's braindeadness is matched only by my own
[03:51] <ogra> mdz, curretnly Mez is more backports guy in ubuntu for me then jdong.... 
[03:51] <ogra> from a dev POV 
[03:53] <mdz> ogra: perhaps he's away from home or busy
[03:53] <ogra> hmm, yes...
[03:53] <spotter> anyone know what package has the xorg keyboard drive?R
[03:54] <daniels> spotter: s/keyboard/kbd/ while I figure it out
[03:54] <daniels> Kamion: more sensible xvinfo headed your way
[03:54] <spotter> danke
[03:54] <spotter> that did it
[03:55] <Kamion> daniels: thanks
[03:57] <daniels> Kamion: the strange thing about -36 is that I let xserver-xorg choke on the great stream of modularisation love by not forcing people to install modules, but left xlibs-dev where it stood
[03:59] <mdz> ogra,Kamion: how close are we to having edubuntu seeds and CD images?
[03:59] <ogra> mdz, i'm still waiting for some license decisions... i'll do it soon
[04:00] <ogra> (this week, to probaly have a colony3 with edubuntu-meta packages)
[04:01] <mdz> ogra: license decisions on what?
[04:01] <ogra> mdz, squeak
[04:02] <mdz> ogra: that shouldn't block seeds or CD images
[04:02] <mirak> there is a problem with toolchain, to compile a cross gcc, I have this problem, either on powerpc or i386 !
[04:02] <mdz> we can always add packages later
[04:02] <Kamion> ogra: as I said before, it will be separate CD images, not part of the regular Ubuntu CD images, and I will not block Colony 3 on it
[04:02] <ogra> Kamion, thus "probably"
[04:02] <sabdfl> Riddell, ogra: heads up, links to kubuntu and edubuntu from www.ubuntu.com
[04:02] <Kamion> nor do I intend to multiply the load of doing Colony releases up further
[04:03] <ogra> Kamion, i want the edubuntu-desktop -server -whateverelse packages in ubuntu 
[04:03] <Kamion> yes, but not in the Ubuntu CD images
[04:03] <ogra> sabdfl, yay
[04:03] <Kamion> certainly they must be in Ubuntu main
[04:04] <Riddell> sabdfl: images are missing
[04:05] <sabdfl> Riddell: ?
[04:05] <sabdfl> looks fine for me?
[04:05] <sabdfl> ctrl-shift-r?
[04:06] <Riddell> sabdfl: I think the permissions are set wrong on the images
[04:06] <sabdfl> Riddell: ah, good catch
[04:06] <sabdfl> i'm logged in
[04:06] <Riddell> if I go to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/kubuntulogo.png is asks me to log in
[04:07] <Kamion> mdz,ogra: I've just done cdimage support for edubuntu - ready to build CDs as soon as seeds are up
[04:07] <sabdfl> Riddell: now?
[04:07] <Treenaks> kubuntu is for gearheads? *ducks*
[04:07] <ogra> Kamion, thanks
[04:07] <Treenaks> sabdfl: looks ok now
[04:08] <sabdfl> thanks guys
[04:08] <Treenaks> sabdfl: but the images are browser-scaled-ugly
[04:08] <sabdfl> Treenaks: yes, i just did a qnd hack, my image-fu is not great
[04:08] <sabdfl> contributions welcome
[04:08] <Lathiat> Treenaks: haha
[04:08] <Riddell> sabdfl: groovy, works now
[04:09] <Lathiat> the edubuntu logo is cute
[04:09] <Lathiat> but yeh it needs some love
[04:09] <ogra> they are awful scaled...
[04:09] <ogra> sabdfl, wait a sec, i have a small one here....
[04:10] <Riddell> webbrowsers arn't very good at scaling images
[04:11] <ogra> Riddell, thats why you scale them before :)
[04:11] <Treenaks> hey, teh p1tt1
[04:12] <Riddell> Treenaks: do I want to know what a gearhead is?
[04:12] <pitti> 'evening Mr. Tr33n4ks :-)
[04:12] <Treenaks> Riddell: you might want to
[04:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi all
[04:12] <bddebian> Hello Kamping_Kaiser
[04:12] <mdz> Kamion: great, thanks
[04:12] <Lathiat> pitti: are large usb drives supposed to not be mounting?
[04:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> is it possible to pretty up the Ubuntu boot to more like knoppix? i just had someone ask me
[04:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> with the penguins etc
[04:13] <mjg59> Kamping_Kaiser: That is the aim
[04:13] <Treenaks> Riddell: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gearhead
[04:13] <Lathiat> pitti: my 200G doesnt automount but it appears in computer, but if i hit mount volume it complains about /dev/sda1 not being in fstab (no pmount love?) -- my say 128M memory card in a usbh reader does automount tho
[04:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> mjg59: ok.
[04:13] <mjg59> Kamping_Kaiser: see http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/USplash
[04:14] <pitti> Lathiat: they are supposed to just work
[04:14] <lifeless> pitti: btw I filed that bug on my CF card in bugzilla
[04:15] <pitti> Lathiat: can you /msg me the output of "pmount -d /dev/sda1"?
[04:16] <ogra> ARGH, my gimp is broken
[04:17] <lifeless> pitti: do I need to get you more info ?
[04:17] <jsgotangco> salut
[04:17] <mdz> ogra: what is the ETA for the edubuntu seeds?
[04:17] <pitti> lifeless: I didn't look at bz in that week
[04:17] <ogra> mdz, is friday ok with you ? 
[04:18] <lifeless> pitti: ok, well please let me know what I can do ;0
[04:19] <pitti> lifeless: I don't know whether I will find time during the debconf week, but I'll do a huge bug triage at next Monday anyway :-)
[04:19] <{Seb}> looks like X is broken again
[04:19] <lifeless> pitti: ok. 
[04:19] <Amaranth> {Seb}: Not broken, just in need of extra packages
[04:19] <daniels> {Seb}: yeah dude, known issue
[04:19] <Amaranth> {Seb}: If you're talking about -36, that is.
[04:20] <{Seb}> i want to use ubuntu
[04:20] <{Seb}> i want to like ubuntu
[04:20] <jsgotangco> jeezz
[04:20] <{Seb}> but i keep installing it and getting screwed
[04:20] <daniels> {Seb}: if you are not comfortable with fixing broken systems, breezy is not for you
[04:20] <jsgotangco> then don't use an unstable version
[04:20] <jsgotangco> its not supposed to be used by everyone anyways
[04:21] <{Seb}> i might see if i can get Mono 1.1.8 source installed on Ubuntu Hoary
[04:22] <ogra> sabdfl, scaled to 300px www.grawert.net/edubuntu_logo.png
[04:23] <jsgotangco> oohh right...i need an edubuntu logo as well
[04:23] <Amaranth> {Seb}: What xorg driver do you use?
[04:23] <{Seb}> ati
[04:23] <Amaranth> ok
[04:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> what happened to X?
[04:23] <Amaranth> install xserver-xorg-input-kbd, xserver-xorg-input-mouse, and xserver-xorg-driver-ati
[04:23] <Amaranth> then edit xorg.conf and change Driver 'keyboard' to Driver 'kbd'
[04:23] <Amaranth> and X works again
[04:23] <Amaranth> yay
[04:24] <Amaranth> Kamping_Kaiser: xserver went modular
[04:24] <{Seb}> from Colony 2?
[04:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> Amaranth: oh, at last ;)
[04:24] <Amaranth> colony 2?
[04:24] <Amaranth> i'm talking about latest and greatest
[04:24] <{Seb}> i install colony 2 - X works
[04:24] <{Seb}> i run upgrade and X breaks
[04:25] <Amaranth> ok, this is how to make X unbreak
[04:25] <{Seb}> so it has become modular since X2?
[04:25] <Amaranth> yes
[04:25] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:25] <Amaranth> it just changed today
[04:25] <{Seb}> i'm doing a fresh install
[04:25] <{Seb}> what should i do when upgrading to the newest X?
[04:25] <{Seb}> what you said?
[04:25] <Amaranth> install xserver-xorg-input-kbd, xserver-xorg-input-mouse, and xserver-xorg-driver-ati
[04:25] <infinity> ...
[04:25] <Amaranth> then edit xorg.conf and change Driver 'keyboard' to Driver 'kbd'
[04:26] <infinity> Where did my amd64 buildds go?
[04:26] <Amaranth> and X works again
[04:26] <{Seb}> will do
[04:26] <infinity> pitti : Is elmo around?
[04:26] <{Seb}> thanks Amarnath
[04:26] <{Seb}> will be back soon
[04:26] <pitti> infinity: he didn't join us at the trip, I i
[04:26] <pitti> infinity: ... didn't see him today yet
[04:26] <Kamion> {Seb}: it's being fixed, go have a coffee :-)
[04:27] <Kamion> easier to wait an hour or two than to work around it ...
[04:27] <infinity> pitti : All three amd64 buildds seem to have gone *splat*.
[04:27] <infinity> pitti : Can you say "yay"?
[04:27] <pitti> *vomit*
[04:27] <infinity> sabdfl : ping.
[04:28] <Kamion> sigh, firefox ate my laptop. again.
[04:28] <Amaranth> all at once?
[04:28] <Amaranth> :P
[04:29] <{Seb}> Kamion: how long till the fix?
[04:29] <Amaranth> Kamion: Easier to wait an hour or two than to edit one line and install 3 packages? :)
[04:30] <Kamion> {Seb}: it's building
[04:30] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[04:30] <Kamping_Kaiser> nice work
[04:31] <ogra> meh, "save as..." doesnt work in any app for me...
[04:31] <bddebian> Nice
[04:31] <Kamion> Amaranth: the problem with workarounds is that you have to go and un-workaround them later. After you edit xorg.conf by hand, automatic xorg.conf updating won't happen any more until you follow the runes at the top of the file.
[04:31] <{Seb}> Kamion: if i make Amaranth's suggestion now and then upgrade to the new stuff, will everything be ok?
[04:31] <Kamion> {Seb}: see above.
[04:32] <ogra> bddebian, yes, especially in firefox thats fun... i cant download with it....
[04:32] <{Seb}> also, why does /usr/bin/X11 get filled up with loads of stuff when i upgrade to X?
[04:32] <Amaranth> um
[04:32] <{Seb}> but sometimes, there is nothing there and I have to make symbolic links for X and Xorg
[04:33] <{Seb}> i.e. ../../X11R6/bin/X --> /usr/bin/X11/X
[04:33] <{Seb}> i.e. ../../X11R6/bin/Xorg --> /usr/bin/X11/Xorg
[04:33] <{Seb}> but sometimes /usr/bin/X11 is filled with loads and loads of stuff - mainly unrelated to X
[04:33] <Kamion> /usr/bin/X11 is a symlink to /usr/bin nowadays
[04:33] <Amaranth> hehe
[04:34] <Amaranth> that'd be why
[04:34] <bddebian> ogra: Need me to fix that for ya? ;-P
[04:34] <ogra> bddebian, go ahead :)
[04:34] <ogra> its bugday !
[04:34] <{Seb}> ok - i will be back in a bit
[04:34] <{Seb}> thanks guys
[04:34] <{Seb}> i just won't upgrade X!
[04:35] <ogra> sabdfl, and the same for kubuntu www.grawert.net/kubuntulogo.png
[04:35] <{Seb}> Kamion: will it be in the repos. tonight then?
[04:35] <{Seb}> or just ready?
[04:35] <bddebian> It's bugday again??
[04:36] <ogra> bddebian, its wednesday
[04:36] <eruin> woops, what changed in X today?
[04:36] <Amaranth> eruin: It went modular
[04:36] <daniels> Kamion: to be fair, the rune is just the single dpkg-reconfigure
[04:36] <bddebian> It really is too bad that I'm worthless.. :'-(
[04:36] <Amaranth> eruin: wait awhile or check out the xserver-xorg-* packages
[04:36] <Kamion> seb128: evolution-data-server done
[04:37] <seb128> Kamion: thanks
[04:37] <{Seb}> will Xorg go up to -37 when it is done?
[04:37] <eruin> Amaranth: aah, yeh, I skimmed through the changelog and saw that... I thought the nasty stuff was over, actually ;)
[04:37] <Amaranth> {Seb}: -38
[04:37] <{Seb}> kk - i will be watching ;-)
[04:37] <{Seb}> bye
[04:37] <Amaranth> -37 was DOA
[04:38] <pitti> lifeless: "Error: invalid file system name 'auto'" -> that's fixed in Breezy
[04:38] <daniels> -37 was doa through no fault of kamion's, it must be said
[04:38] <Amaranth> :P
[04:38] <Amaranth> who cares, as long as it gets fixed
[04:39] <{Seb}> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xorg/6.8.2-37/
[04:39] <{Seb}> 37 seems to be good
[04:39] <Amaranth> it got unaccepted
[04:39] <Kamion> {Seb}: it didn't make it through the archive for various complicated reasons
[04:40] <daniels> Amaranth: yeah, Kamion fixed one of my screw-ups and I took care of the rest
[04:40] <daniels> although this was a complete rush upload to take care of the problems
[04:40] <daniels> so, uhm, xlibs might be fun
[04:41] <Amaranth> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12664 can be closed?
[04:41] <Amaranth> hehe, ivoks replied to the bug
[04:41] <Amaranth> ivoks: Kamion told me to file that :)
[04:42] <daniels> if you're upgrading to -38, you probably (really) want to put xlibs on hold
[04:42] <Amaranth> i'll stick with -36 then
[04:42] <infinity> daniels : What have you done to xlibs?
[04:43] <eruin> shouldnt xserver-xorg-input-kbd be all thats needed for the keyboard module?
[04:43] <Lathiat> eruin: yeh but you need to s/keyboard/kbd in xorg.conf
[04:43] <eruin> sometimes I think I should stay off my computer after coming home from work... thanks
[04:43] <Lathiat> nah, its just cus it got broken good
[04:43] <Lathiat> it'l be fixed soon
[04:44] <lamont> daniels: I was asked yesterday when l-r-m will become current again...  seems it has xorg breakage....
[04:44] <lamont>  /usr/include/X11 !-> /usr/X11R6/include/X11
[04:45] <daniels> oh, I see
[04:45] <daniels> remove_conffile_prepare doesn't actually work
[04:46] <daniels> #@$UO*I@##$\
[04:46] <daniels> infinity: programs/xkbcomp not getting built -> no XKB data
[04:49] <ivoks> Amaranth: let me check what was that about
[04:49] <ivoks> Amaranth: this is pendingupload, right?
[04:51] <Amaranth> ivoks: yes
[04:51] <hughsie> ogra: ping?
[04:51] <ogra> hughsie, give me 10min
[04:52] <hughsie> ogra: k
[04:59] <Kamion> infinity: could you dep-wait debian-installer on udev-udeb (>= 0.060-1ubuntu2), please?
[05:01] <Lathiat> Has anyone noticed spurious icon sizes in the file chooser
[05:01] <Lathiat> say a .py file has a 48x icon
[05:01] <Lathiat> or have i just got somethign weird going on here?
[05:01] <Lathiat> also the gaim icon looks really crap, like a real small one scaled up
[05:06] <infinity> Kamion : It's currently dep-wait on libiw27; is that still valid as well?
[05:07] <infinity> Kamion : Erm, wait, no it can't be, libiw28 is in breezy now, right?
[05:07] <Kamion> nope, that should be taken ofg
[05:07] <Kamion> off
[05:07] <infinity> I seem to recall doing that merge myself.
[05:07] <Kamion> I fixed that earlier today
[05:07] <Lathiat> xorg people: so what before depended on xlibmesa-glu, what should it be now?
[05:08] <daniels> libglu1-xorg | libglu1c2
[05:08] <{Seb}> hi all
[05:08] <Lathiat> and for dev packages?
[05:08] <{Seb}> speaking from ubuntu now
[05:08] <{Seb}> Kamion: how is it going?
[05:09] <daniels> Lathiat: xlibmesa-glu-dev will continue to work, but libglu1-xorg-dev is the new canonical name
[05:09] <Lathiat> so i should change them if i have the chance?
[05:10] <daniels> sure
[05:10] <infinity> Kamion : All fixed up.
[05:10] <Lathiat> ok
[05:11] <Kamion> infinity: great, thanks
[05:12] <{Seb}> Kamion: can you say when -38 is ready?
[05:12] <Lathiat> {Seb}: Just wait or subscribe to the changes mailing list
[05:13] <daniels> {Seb}: it's already been uploaded, just give it two hours or something and try then.  no-one knows exactly when.
[05:13] <daniels> although -38 is broken too
[05:13] <{Seb}> is it?
[05:13] <daniels> and I'm looking at a -39 build while trying not to faceplant into the keyboard
[05:13] <daniels> yes, it is
[05:13] <daniels> xlibs won't upgrade
[05:13] <ogra> {Seb}, subscribe to breezy-changes to see it coming into the build process, look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/ to see it coming out :)
[05:14] <ogra> {Seb}, if it built it will show up in the archive soon
[05:14] <Lathiat> daniels: does xlibmesa-gl have any problems?
[05:14] <Lathiat> daniels: or 'better' changes ?
[05:15] <Lathiat> daniels: same thing as glu?
[05:15] <Lathiat> hrm *tries to understand the relationship*
[05:19] <daniels> Lathiat: no, xlibmesa-gl is fine
[05:21] <ogra> hughsie, re
[05:21] <hughsie> ogra, cool.
[05:24] <hughsie> ogra: hold fire on the PowerManager thing
[05:24] <ogra> oki
[05:24] <hughsie> i'm talking to davidz about getting it into HAL properly
[05:24] <mdke> lists are down again?
[05:24] <ogra> hughsie, hmm, but that means we wont see it n breezy....
[05:25] <ogra> s/n/in
[05:25] <hughsie> ogra, hence the PowerManager bodge if you need it..
[05:25] <ogra> hughsie, hal wont see huge version jumps anymore i think
[05:26] <hughsie> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2005-July/002711.html
[05:26] <hughsie> it's in today's cvs, in a raw state
[05:26] <ogra> yep, i saw that...
[05:27] <ogra> but i dobt pitti will grab CVS for the release.... 
[05:27] <mirak> what is the glibc version in ubuntu
[05:27] <mirak> ?
[05:27] <ogra> (pitti is our hal maintainer)
[05:27] <mirak> hoary
[05:27] <hughsie> ogra: agreed.
[05:27] <tseng> mirak: packages.ubuntu.com
[05:27] <hughsie> ogra: the powermanager thing should be good for you guys
[05:28] <mdke> guys? anyone getting mail from the lists?
[05:28] <ogra> hughsie, yes...
[05:28] <ogra> mdke, hmm, none the last hours...
[05:28] <mdke> guess they have gone phut again
[05:29] <hughsie> ogra: what if the action support wasin 0.5.4 of HAL?
[05:29] <jbailey> mirak: 2.3.2 snapshot from Sep 2003
[05:29] <ogra> that coud be feasable, but still depends on pittis decision if he upgrades or not...
[05:29] <mirak> ok
[05:30] <hughsie> ogra: let me get more details from davidz
[05:30] <ogra> hughsie, we are in upstream version freeze,so new upstream versions are considered very carefully and looked over twice
[05:30] <seb128> Kamion, mdz: Debian has just got wxwidgets2.6, are we getting it now or that's for n+1?
[05:30] <hughsie> ogra: cool. you tell me what works for you guys best, and i'll do my best
[05:30] <ogra> seb128, NOW !! please ...
[05:31] <Amaranth> users will like, scream and stuff if we don't get it
[05:31] <seb128> but that's upstream freeze ....
[05:31] <tseng> Amaranth: people use that?
[05:31] <Amaranth> tseng: Well, vlc looks like ass with GTK1. :P
[05:31] <mdke> even worse than scream... they backport
[05:32] <Amaranth> mdke: true
[05:32] <ogra> hughsie, if it will be in the next hal version, a backport would be cool, if its included upstream and pitti thinks its non intrusive and safe, we *could* get it in
[05:32] <hughsie> ogra: i wouldn't use the word safe...it's a bit raw at the oment
[05:33] <ogra> hughsie, whil powermanager would get dropped in the next release in favor of that... so my personal preferred solution would be to go with the backport
[05:33] <ogra> s/whil//
[05:33] <hughsie> powermanager is only a temp bodge (although this morning i thought it was less temporary!!)
[05:34] <ogra> hughsie, if davidz is fine with a backport i'd prefer it... but i have to talk to pitti about his plans with hal
[05:35] <jbailey> Kamion: ping?
[05:35] <Kamion> jbailey: pong
[05:35] <hughsie> ogra: okay, thats cool. pitti's decision really. it's p-m or the upstream HAL
[05:35] <ogra> yep
[05:35] <jbailey> Kamion: 3c509 is the old ISA card, isn't t?
[05:35] <seb128> there is a new 0.5.3 hal today
[05:35] <Kamion> jbailey: believe so
[05:35] <Mithrandir> jbailey: yes, it is
[05:36] <hughsie> ogra: i'll keep you informed with whats happending with hal
[05:36] <jbailey> Can't we just send people a nice cheap PCI ethernet card?  It might be cheaper than sending them the breezy CD through shipit...
[05:36] <Kamion> heh
[05:36] <ogra> hughsie, great... note that i'm subscribed to the list ;)
[05:36] <hughsie> ogra: no worries then :-)
[05:36] <Kamion> jbailey: hmm, I think I'm going to need to backport the udev-udeb fixes from 0.062-1 - is that going to be OK?
[05:36] <Mithrandir> jbailey: the right response to "I have a problem with $ISA_NIC" is "here's a nickel.  Buy yourself something less bad"
[05:36] <seb128> ogra: have you ever mailed the guy who made the anjuta2 packages?
[05:36] <ogra> seb128, we talk about backportig a feature from CVS 
[05:36] <jbailey> Kamion: backport to Hoary?
[05:37] <jbailey> Oh, from unstable.
[05:37] <Kamion> jbailey: unstable->breezy
[05:38] <ogra> seb128, wasnt he in -motu ? i thought they are in revu already....
[05:38] <seb128> ogra: that was a mail on ubuntu-devel with 0 reply, I'm not on motu 
[05:38] <jbailey> Kamion: I don't see a problem, which fixes are you bringing in?
[05:38] <ogra> seb128, looking ....
[05:39] <ogra> seb128, i've seen him in -motu and i know he was told to put it in revu for a review.... i'll mail him
[05:39] <Kamion> jbailey: the fix to use a second optimised build, and presumably your fix to lndir.sh
[05:39] <ogra> (its not in revu=
[05:39] <ogra> )
[05:39] <jbailey> Kamion: That's unclear, sorry.  I don't see a problem with you backporting bits.  For curiousity, what are you bringing in. =)
[05:39] <seb128> ogra: k, thanks
[05:39] <Kamion> jbailey: I need to build udev-udeb without selinux, you see ...
[05:40] <jbailey> Kamion: My fix to lndir.sh should already be in our 0.060, I had to do it in order to build the udeb at all (And the only fix I think in his version is a bashism I did by accident)
[05:40] <Kamion> ah, ok
[05:41] <Lathiat> whats wiki for those code blocks
[05:41] <Kamion> there's a debian/rules tweak or three, though
[05:41] <Kamion> Lathiat: {{{ ... }}}
[05:41] <Lathiat> thats what i thought
[05:41] <Lathiat> are they no longer put in a nice little bordered section?
[05:42] <Lathiat> or doe sit need to be more than 1 line
[05:42] <Kamion> jbailey: the issue I saw was that build-tree/udev-udeb/ doesn't seem to be getting built usefully; i.e. no build-tree/udev-udeb/udev
[05:43] <jbailey> Kamion: Ah, okay.  Are you already buried in the code?  If not, I can dig in there as I've seen it recently.
[05:43] <Lathiat> ah, yes
[05:43] <Lathiat> needs to be more than 1 line
[05:43] <Lathiat> or at lesat have the }}} on the next line
[05:44] <Kamion> jbailey: relatively buried, but I don't know it well so more eyes wouldn't hurt
[05:44] <Kamion> jbailey: actually, never mind, I see the problem
[05:45] <Kamion> s/\(BUILD_.*\)__/\1/
[05:45] <jbailey> Ah.
[05:45] <jbailey> Oh, weird.
[05:47] <Kamion> it seems to have been from Debian
[05:48] <jbailey> cool, thanks.
[05:51] <Kamion> there, fixed
[05:52] <\sh> re
[05:53] <bddebian> wb \sh
[05:54] <daniels> your /etc/X11/xkb/xkbcomp symlink will disappear if you upgrade to xkeyboard-config.  for the meantime, just add it by hand if you care about XKB.
[05:58] <mdke> :)
[05:59] <mdke> that file was missing when I upgraded xorg recently in gentoo _stable_
[05:59] <mdke> damn cowboys
[06:02] <Lathiat> daniels: still around?
[06:04] <daniels> Lathiat: no
[06:05] <Lathiat> daniels: will shlibs:Depends handle the right depends?
[06:05] <daniels> yes
[06:05] <Lathiat> ok thanks
[06:05] <daniels> np
[06:07] <eruin> Lathiat: I've seen the weird filechooser sizes too
[06:24] <lamont-away> daniels: pretty soon you're going to run out of fingers on your family's hands, yes?
[06:25] <lamont-away> hrmpf.  no fun to troll him when he's sleeping
[06:35] <Lathiat> anyone got a hack so that when using pbuilder it will dump the resultant .debs in the current directory
[06:36] <Amaranth> why do you need that?
[06:36] <Lathiat> cus im sick of sifting through the result directory :)
[06:37] <winkle> BUILDRESULT=$PWD maybe?
[06:38] <Lathiat> hm thats an idea
[07:59] <cartman> (yes/no question) X.org on breezy is broken?
[08:00] <Treenaks> yes.
[08:00] <Treenaks> a lot.
[08:01] <cartman> ok :)
[08:31] <lamont-away> Kamion: you around?
[08:37] <eruin> xorg isnt really that broken
[08:42] <infinity> daniels : There's an x11proto-resource release sitting on your hard drive somewhere that you forgot to upload, isn't there?
[09:08] <mdke> can someone try to connect to http://lists.ubuntu.com pls? I can't connect 
[09:08] <bddebian> mdke: I can't hit it
[09:08] <mdke> okay
[09:08] <mdke> i'm always worried about my nameserver :)
[09:08] <bddebian> :-)
[09:10] <thierry> bug day today!? can I help?
[09:12] <bddebian> Yeah, squash some bugs :-)
[09:13] <hughsie> ogra: ping?
[09:13] <ogra> hughsie, 
[09:13] <ogra> pong
[09:13] <hughsie> cool.
[09:14] <hughsie> Been talking to davidz
[09:14] <hughsie> the HAL thing could be a little way off release quality, certainly not in the next 3 months timeframe
[09:14] <thierry> bddebian : yeah but you could say what is the mean task?? LIke confirming bugs, stack traces ect..
[09:15] <ogra> hughsie, ok, so we'll go with the daemon ...
[09:15] <bddebian> thierry: Well I couldn't, because I don't know anything.  I'm just here to entertain ogra. :-)
[09:15] <hughsie> ogra: i thought you would say that
[09:15] <hughsie> whens the next version of ubuntu? (silly question mode off)
[09:15] <bddebian> Oh shoot, wrong channel
[09:16] <thierry> ogra : what is going on with bug day? Can I help?
[09:16] <ogra> code freeze is on augus 11th .... release some time in oct
[09:16] <ogra> august even 
[09:16] <hughsie> ogra: okay, the daemon might be pushing it even then?
[09:16] <ogra> thierry, sure, look at the buglists in the topic of #ubuntu-bugs 
[09:18] <thierry> ogra : http://tinyurl.com/c7gafa doesn't work (in the #ubuntu-bugs topic)
[09:18] <ogra> hughsie, we'll get it sorted... worst case i can go with the pmi calls directly if necessary... 
[09:19] <ogra> gah
[09:19] <hughsie> Cool, what about mjg59 - has he acked anyhting?
[09:20] <hughsie> gah?
[09:20] <ogra> hughsie, yes the bug url is broken
[09:20] <ogra> hughsie, wasnt for you
[09:21] <ogra> hughsie, i havent met him yet
[09:21] <hughsie> okay, no problems
[09:21] <hughsie> i've uploaded the new site too (if you need to explain to anyone) gnome-power-sf.net
[09:24] <ogra> hughsie, great, thanks :)
[09:24] <ogra> thierry, link ficed
[09:24] <ogra> fixed even
[09:26] <thierry> ogra : k thanks
[09:29] <hughsie> ogra: cheers, off to call g/f
[09:30] <ogra> hughsie, bye and thanks :)
[09:30] <hughsie> ogra: thank me when GNOME works like my g/f says it should. :-)
[09:31] <ogra> hehe, improve it ;)
[09:31] <ogra> i bet she's worth the extra work ;)
[09:32] <AndyR> howdy
[09:45] <thierry> ubuntu bug 1813 really should be solved before breezy : it's simple and would clear a lot of things to new users with the sudo command
[10:04] <ivoks> fabbione: ping
[10:04] <fabbione> ivoks: i am heading off line in 2 seconds
[10:04] <ivoks> :(
[10:05] <ivoks> fabbione: one q... is breezy kernel compiled with debuging?
[10:05] <fabbione> ivoks: no.
[10:05] <ivoks> ok, thanks
[10:05] <fabbione> np
[10:05] <fabbione> debugging make the linux-image ~ 150MB
[10:05] <fabbione> so it's not an option
[10:06] <fabbione> and the initrd ~40MB (if you are lucky)
[10:06] <ivoks> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=2986
[10:06] <ivoks> dmesg has strange output here, so i was wondering...
[10:06] <ivoks> i don't understand this numbers in [ ] 
[10:06] <fabbione> these are timestamps
[10:06] <ivoks> i tought, maybe some kind of debug...
[10:06] <ivoks> or that
[10:07] <fabbione> it is useful for debugging yes.. but it's the full debug
[10:07] <ivoks> timestamps are not in default kernel, or?
[10:07] <ivoks> 2 seconds :)
[10:07] <fabbione> it's a config option
[10:07] <fabbione> yeah i need to go or my wife will kill me
[10:07] <ajf> no longer is dmesg | grep ^hd
[10:07] <ajf> :D
[10:08] <fabbione> i haven't been feeling too good today and she is worried
[10:08] <fabbione> cya
[10:08] <ivoks> fabbione: get some rest and go to your wife
[10:08] <ubuntu> colony 2 cd doesn<t have the ubuntu cursors, is it normal^
[10:09] <ivoks> yes
[10:10] <ubuntu> ok so its not a bug to report^
[10:12] <ivoks> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12490
[10:12] <ivoks> allready reported
[10:19] <ubuntu> thanks ivoks
[10:41] <siretart> does anyone know about wxwidgets2.4 breackage in breezy?
[11:05] <subjectdenied> hi, is lists.ubuntu.com down at the moment?
[11:08] <lsuactiafner> yeh
[11:09] <kiko> yo smurfix?
[11:10] <smurfix> kiko: ?
[11:10] <kiko> I was wondering
[11:10] <kiko> could you be troubled to file a bug on signing the CoC using detached signatures so I don't loose that suggestion?
[11:12] <smurfix> You mean as a separate bug? https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/286 already has it, IMHO keeping the discussion together makes sense
[11:17] <kiko> smurfix, the problem is that 286 is now "fixed".
[11:17] <smurfix> ah, OK
[11:17] <smurfix> will do
[11:17] <kiko> smurfix, I think a separate bug -- you can refer to the old bug when filing it -- would be ideal for me bringing up the discussion
[11:17] <kiko> thanks, I really appreciate it.
[11:58] <AndyFitz> morning
[12:02] <jp> /home/jp/.gconf/apps/evolution
[12:02] <jp> sorry <-