[12:32] <tseng> daniels: what is the proper way to slow down a usb mouse that is on crack, but not affect the touchpad
[12:32] <daniels> infinity: not any more, there isn't
[12:32] <daniels> tseng: uhh ... right now, you can't
[12:32] <daniels> they're not presented to xorg as distinct devices
[12:32] <tseng> go xorg
[12:33] <infinity> lamont : Should be fixed once the new version builds, which should be right around now.
[12:33] <lamont> infinity: yeah... it's just annoying me
[12:34] <infinity> You'll live.
[12:34] <lamont> did xorg need some give-back love?
[12:34] <infinity> It will once the new x11protowhateverthingee is in.
[12:34] <Lathiat> daniels: When you got a chance could you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUGLUTransition and make sure it looks ok? (siretart wanted an xorg guru to check)
[12:34] <lamont> right
[12:36] <jp__> :S at breezy, with upgraded x packages I got: no screens found.. who couild fix it? thanks guys
[12:36] <infinity> jp__ : It's already being fixed.  Just wait a few hours.
[12:37] <seth_k> daniels: since libxrender-dev no longer ships libXrender.la, what do I tell this build that is asking for it? What do I use instead?
[12:37] <jp__> infinity ok thanks
[12:39] <infinity> daniels : "not anymore" was code for "I just uploaded it", right?
[12:39] <infinity> daniels : Not seeing it in any queues, so now I'm paranoid. :)
[12:41] <pef> good night !
[12:41] <thierry>  ubuntu bug 10131 and 12380 are duplicate of ubuntu bug 11669
[12:44] <thierry> could someone make the changes? I don't have the permissions to do so
[12:44] <thierry> and bug 11669 should be set as critical
[12:54] <AndyFitz> ping
[12:54] <AndyFitz> JOIN #ubuntu-devel
[12:56] <jp__> !
[12:57] <lsuactiafner> lol
[12:57] <AndyFitz> hehehe.   its sooo true..    im typing from centreicq now that X has broken
[12:57] <daniels> infinity: yeah
[12:57] <daniels> infinity: well, I uploaded it 25 minutes ago now
[12:57] <lsuactiafner> try bitchx for the console..
[12:58] <AndyFitz> damnit.. i trusted those updates  and as soon as you fall in love your heart gets broken
[12:58] <daniels> seth_k: just -lXrender
[12:58] <seth_k> how's that again, daniels?
[12:58] <seth_k> forgive my lack of knowledge
[12:59] <AndyFitz> fix my X and i'll e-mail some shiny bling icons :)
[12:59] <daniels> x is fine
[12:59] <daniels> seth_k: which build?
[12:59] <seth_k> daniels: i'm in the middle of packaging kmobiletools
[12:59] <AndyFitz> no.. X isnt fine.  last update broke it
[01:00] <seth_k> no, you just need to install the mouse and kbd drivers
[01:00] <seth_k> the drivers got modularized
[01:00] <infinity> AndyFitz : It'll unbreak in the next few hours.  Just waiting on various computers to do their thing.
[01:00] <infinity> AndyFitz : Or get someone like seth_k to walk you through fixing it manually. :)
[01:01] <AndyFitz> so what should i apt-get install..   i kinda need X before 10:30 GMT+10
[01:01] <AndyFitz> seth_k,  mate,
[01:01] <seth_k> AndyFitz: xserver-xorg-input-kbd and xserver-xorg-input-mouse and xserver-xorg-driver-###
[01:01] <daniels> Lathiat: ta
[01:01] <seth_k> ati or nv or whatever
[01:01] <AndyFitz> nv
[01:01] <seth_k> okay, those three then
[01:01] <daniels> AndyFitz: also xserver-xorg-core
[01:01] <AndyFitz> nvidia-glx if possible
[01:02] <infinity> Have a LAN party you need to urgently attend? :)
[01:03] <infinity> (I'm pretty sure binary nvidia drivers are still a no-go on breezy until someone gets some round tuits)
[01:03] <AndyFitz> nah, just Red Hat
[01:03] <seth_k> yep, nvidia glx still dead
[01:03] <seth_k> libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libXrender.la'
[01:04] <seth_k> anyways daniels, my build goes happily along until we get to that
[01:04] <thierry> where do I go if I want to propose a new applications to the MOTU team?
[01:05] <seth_k> have you packaged it? If so, revu
[01:05] <thierry> seth_k : this one? http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/
[01:05] <seth_k> thierry, that's right
[01:06] <thierry> k thanks
[01:09] <AndyFitz> bizzare,  its still not running.   would dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg  do anything
[01:09] <AndyFitz> or would i dig myself deeper :)
[01:10] <infinity> AndyFitz : What's it complain about?
[01:11] <seth_k> AndyFitz: one more change to make
[01:11] <infinity> AndyFitz : s/keyboard/kbd/ in xorg.conf may be required.
[01:11] <seth_k> bah, beat me to typing it :)
[01:11] <seth_k> indeed, you must sudoedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf and change your keyboard driver from "keyboard" to "kbd"
[01:12] <AndyFitz> sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf here we go
[01:13] <AndyFitz> IT WORKS!
[01:13] <infinity> daniels : You did get an ACCEPT mail for that proto-resource upload, I assume?
[01:13] <AndyFitz> the future is now .  many thanks
[01:14] <infinity> daniels : Ahh, so you did.  Finally got it on -changes.
[01:23] <daniels> seth_k: um, yo
[01:23] <tseng> link to the lib Xrender
[01:23] <daniels> seth_k: i'll check the problem out a bit later
[01:23] <daniels> seth_k: just dealing with the world having exploded in my inbox overnight
[01:23] <seth_k> yeah, I know you're probably busy :P
[01:23] <seth_k> hence I wait
[01:56] <davyd> I was labouring under the misapprehension that Hoary shipped with tomboy
[01:57] <tseng> davyd: uh
[01:57] <tseng> davyd: it didnt?
[01:58] <davyd> by shipped I mean
[01:58] <davyd> was in universe
[01:58] <Surak> hello
[01:58] <tseng> ...
[01:58] <Surak> Hello people
[01:59] <davyd> I always forget you have one of those
[01:59] <davyd> aah, not built for amd64
[02:00] <daniels> right, we didn't have mono for amd64 in hoary
[02:00] <davyd> aah
[02:00] <davyd> is it in breezy?
[02:00] <tseng> dude
[02:00] <tseng> packages.
[02:00] <tseng> use it
[02:00] <Surak> who should I ask about breezy daily builds? live isn't being built for i386 for some days...
[02:00] <davyd> yeah, doing that
[02:00] <davyd> I don't have a mouse handy
[02:01] <davyd> so I'm having to alt tab around a lot
[02:01] <davyd> hmm, I wasn't going to go to breezy on this machine... but for tomboy...
[02:01] <TerminX> daniels: what's the accepted fix for the problem where xkbcomp spits out a bunch of errors on X startup and then every keypress just changes the resolution?
[02:02] <daniels> TerminX: 'make xkbcomp not do that'?
[02:02] <daniels> what were the errors?
[02:02] <davyd> (stupid X-chat)
[02:02] <daniels> it sounds like one of /usr/lib/X11/xkb or /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb is not a symlink to /etc/X11/xkb
[02:02] <davyd> tseng: is someone doing mono backports to hoary?
[02:03] <tseng> davyd: unfortunately.
[02:03] <daniels> and/or /usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB and/or /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB is not a symlink to /usr/share/X11/xkb
[02:03] <davyd> unfortunately?
[02:03] <TerminX> hmm.. I don't have any of those symlinks
[02:03] <tseng> yes, they never approached me before doing it
[02:04] <TerminX> if they're needed, shouldn't the packages be creating them?
[02:04] <tseng> and made a big mess of it
[02:04] <daniels> TerminX: of course ... that's why they do create them
[02:04] <TerminX> they don't seem to here.
[02:04] <davyd> tseng: so don't even bother with them?
[02:05] <tseng> davyd: i dont remember if they even bothered with !x86
[02:05] <TerminX> as soon as I install any newer libx11-6/xlibs/xlibs-data than what is in hoary, the problem happens
[02:05] <TerminX> like with the current packages
[02:05] <daniels> TerminX: and you have the latest x-common installed as well?
[02:05] <TerminX> yes
[02:05] <daniels> bong
[02:05] <daniels> daniels@brainfreeze:~/canonical/xorg/lib/libx11% dpkg-deb -c libx11-6_6.2.1+cvs.20050711-1_amd64.deb | grep XKeysym
[02:05] <daniels> -rw-r--r-- root/root      8298 2005-07-11 10:15:09 ./usr/share/X11/XKeysymDB
[02:05] <daniels> lrwxrwxrwx root/root         0 2005-07-11 10:15:13 ./usr/lib/X11/XKeysymDB -> ../../share/X11/XKeysymDB
[02:06] <daniels> lrwxrwxrwx root/root         0 2005-07-11 10:15:13 ./usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB -> ../../../share/X11/XKeysymDB
[02:06] <TerminX> hmm
[02:06] <davyd> tseng: would building breezy Mono debs on Hoary lead to much pain?
[02:06] <davyd> I can't imagine that the Mono dependancy tree has changed incredibly much externally
[02:07] <davyd> (stupid X-chat again)
[02:07] <tseng> well it takes me a few hours
[02:07] <davyd> I only want enough Mono for tomboy and muine
[02:07] <tseng> as for anyone else
[02:07] <tseng> cant say.
[02:07] <davyd> is it likely to just be a matter of getting the source and debuilding it?
[02:08] <tseng> mono and cli-common needs to be bootstrapped
[02:08] <tseng> then build gtk-sharp, gtk-sharp2, muine, tomboy
[02:08] <davyd> but suspects he'll be getting good somewhere around 3 weeks from now
[02:08] <tseng> we dont really have docs on it
[02:08] <davyd> failing that... can I somehow jam breezy mono onto Hoary?
[02:09] <tseng> you have to remove cli-common build-dep, and remove dh_*cli* calls from rules
[02:09] <tseng> build, install
[02:09] <tseng> build cli-common
[02:09] <tseng> install
[02:09] <tseng> replace above, rebuild mono
[02:09] <whiprush> mako: has that jdong guy talked to you lately? I'm supposed to sign his key but he seems missing.
[02:09] <tseng> and then work your way up the rest of the ladder
[02:10] <davyd> tseng: ok, I'll have a play with that tonight when I get home from work
[02:10] <davyd> it's time for me to go now
[02:10] <tseng> ok
[02:10] <davyd> thanks
[02:10] <tseng> np
[02:10] <TerminX> daniels: is /usr/share/X11 supposed to be a symlink to /usr/X11R6/lib/X11?
[02:10] <daniels> TerminX: ... no
[02:11] <TerminX> wtf
[02:12] <TerminX> what's the easiest way to purge all of X and reinstall it
[02:12] <TerminX> heh
[02:12] <daniels> delete the symlink, create a dir in its place, I'll take care of it in an x-common upload
[02:12] <daniels> err ... heh
[02:12] <TerminX> I checked into that XKeysymDB thing -- there was no actual file
[02:13] <TerminX> just symlinks linking to symlinks linking to nonexistent stuff
[02:13] <daniels> how recent is your libx11-6?
[02:13] <daniels> ok
[02:13] <TerminX> current as of now
[02:13] <daniels> so nuke the symlink, create the dir, reinstall libx11-6
[02:13] <TerminX> done
[02:20] <TerminX> daniels: that appeared to work, but I had to mv /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts to /usr/share/X11
[02:20] <TerminX> should I need to do anything else?
[02:21] <Nafallo> ehm... why are there no buildlogs for amd64 for the more recent uploaded packages?
[02:24] <Nafallo> I can see no *_amd64.deb hitting the archive either :-/
[02:26] <daniels> the amd64 buildds appear to be dead in the water
[02:26] <daniels> TerminX: that should be alright
[02:26] <Nafallo> oh joy! :-(
[02:28] <TerminX> daniels: okay, thank you for your help :)
[02:29] <Nafallo> anyway, goodnight! :-)
[02:54] <jp> is x good now?
[02:54] <seth_k> sure
[02:54] <seth_k> works fine
[02:54] <seth_k> with a bit of tweaking
[02:55] <jp> cool, so I keep tweaking it :P
[02:55] <jp> thanks
[03:04] <infinity> daniels : -39 is FTBFS.  Missing build-dep.
[03:05] <infinity> daniels : cannot find -lXtst
[03:12] <mrd`> Anyone else having problems trying to upgrade openoffice.org2-* in Breezy?
[03:13] <jp> how did some symlinks to get working xorg? to share them... :( thanks :D
[03:14] <jp> :$
[03:14] <mrd`> I have no idea what you just said.
[03:15] <mrd`> (Anyways, I think I found a workaround for OOo2 on bugzilla...)
[03:15] <jp> mrd`:  I can't start x, and somebody of here said me that x is working, but I can't start it (sorry my english)
[03:16] <jp> and Ive been doing some symlinks, reinstalling xserver but I cant get it working :/
[03:16] <KaiL> mrd`: uninstall openoffice.org2-base, then do apt-get -f install and then install base again
[03:17] <KaiL> it's a very "funny" version of file conflict (one file moved from base to common and one from common to base), so you can't just say "install the other one first"..:(
[03:18] <mrd`> Was the file swap intentional?
[03:18] <KaiL> I don't know
[03:19] <jp> :(
[03:19] <daniels> infinity: let me guess, hw/dmx?
[03:20] <mrd`> KaiL: Your method seems to be working, thanks!
[03:20] <mrd`> jp: Sorry, X's working for me.  Did you check if your problem's listed in Bugzilla?
[03:20] <KaiL> well, it worked here too :)
[03:21] <jp> how did you get it working?
[03:21] <jp> doing ln -sf /usr/X11R6/bin/X /etc/X11/X ?
[03:21] <KaiL> I wonder, that openoffice.org website doesn't have this 114 ;)
[03:21] <jp> I can't, sorry guys..
[03:21] <mrd`> jp: Yeah, I had to do that once upon a time.
[03:21] <KaiL> at least it seams to be faster
[03:25] <infinity> daniels : Dunno, already deleted the log mail.
[03:25] <infinity> daniels : They're copied into ~lamont, though.
[03:26] <daniels> infinity: -40 uploaded
[03:26] <infinity> Schwoit.
[03:27] <lamont> daniels: so who's fingers are you gonna use to figure out the revision for the next upload??? :-)
[03:28] <daniels> i won't mind if you force me to take sick days
[03:29] <jp> I know that it's a development channel, but can somebody help me to get working x? sorry guys and thanks
[03:32] <jp> uhmm where is the correct X file now? /usr/X11R6/bin/ ? where? that would help me a lot, I treied with /usr/bin/X but doesn't work
[03:33] <mrd`> My /etc/X11/X points to /usr/bin/X11/Xorg.
[03:33] <jp> thanks mrd` 
[03:36] <jp> heheh mrd` no it says me no screens found that's an advance, thanks :)
[03:37] <mrd`> Sorry, that's as far as I'll be useful helping out. ;)
[03:37] <jp> heheh :P
[03:52] <jp> i really want to cry 
[03:52] <jp> I've been trying more than 2 hours :(
[03:53] <jp> the log file says that it doesn't recognize my hardware... that can't load "sis" "keyboard" "mouse" module
[03:53] <jp> :/
[03:59] <infinity> If anyone can explain to me why I've been awake for over 26 hours, they get a prize.
[04:00] <infinity> Alternately...
[04:00] <mrd`> Caffeine?
[04:01] <jp> mrd`: a gun :)
[04:16] <TerminX> jp: you need to install some new packages
[04:17] <TerminX> like xserver-xorg-input-mouse, xserver-xorg-input-kbd, and xserver-xorg-driver-sis
[04:17] <TerminX> and you might have to change your xorg.conf to use kbd instead of keyboard for the keyboard driver
[04:17] <TerminX> oh
[04:17] <TerminX> he left.
[04:17] <TerminX> shit.
[04:26] <mrd`> My xorg.conf still has ``Driver "keyboard"''; should I change it?
[04:28] <tseng> kbd
[04:29] <mrd`> Hm... the xserver-xorg package says "This package is a dummy package which depends on the core X.Org X server", but it doesn't seem to have any dependencies.
[04:47] <daniels> mrd`: /topic
[04:50] <mrd`> daniels: Ah. :)
[04:55] <lamont> did python-apt get tweaked to support hoary-backport versions, I wonder?
[05:50] <fabbione> morning
[05:50] <wasabi_> dev related question sorta: Is Ubuntu installable alongside Windows currently?
[05:50] <wasabi_> ie resize tools? I had heard we were making progress on that front.
[05:51] <wasabi_> has any thought been put into doing so, and when done, automounting the windows drive in some position and providing an icon on the user's desktop?
[05:52] <wasabi_> "Windows Documents" for instance, which would be a .desktop file which would point to /windows/Documents and Settings/*somehow find previous username*
[05:53] <schweeb> wasabi_: NTFS resize is included in hoary
[05:53] <schweeb> in the installer
[05:53] <schweeb> I used it on this laptop
[05:54] <wasabi_> Well, I was just thinking about the whole auto mounting exposure thing...
[05:54] <wasabi_> So as soon sa the user gets in, he has his docs in front of him.
[05:54] <wasabi_> We're still read-only NTFS without Captive though aren't we.
[05:55] <wasabi_> Still, it woudl be a step.
[05:55] <schweeb> the docs would be pretty hard to do
[05:55] <schweeb> considering you couldn't reliably determine which username is which
[05:56] <wasabi_> Yeah I had thought of that.
[05:56] <wasabi_> best idea I guess is to put them all in there.
[05:57] <wasabi_> I wouldn't wnat to link directly to C: though, as a large majority of people don't even know their stuff is in Docs and settings
[05:57] <schweeb> a better option would be... "migrate my windows documents and settings" icon
[05:57] <schweeb> that allows you to select a user name
[05:57] <schweeb> and brings in the favorites
[05:58] <schweeb> which I think is actually in the works
[05:59] <wasabi_> Hmm. Well. I dunno if I like that.
[05:59] <wasabi_> Mostly because it dehooks them.
[05:59] <wasabi_> I'd like that, if I could run it whenever I chose to.
[05:59] <wasabi_> I might want to dual boot for awhile.
[05:59] <wasabi_> Or forever.
[05:59] <schweeb> no matter what, your settings aren't going to go both ways
[06:00] <schweeb> until you have captive
[06:00] <schweeb> and it provides less clutter on the desktop with the icons from all 20 users on your system
[06:00] <wasabi_> Yeah. Well... is that an option?
[06:00] <schweeb> not legally
[06:01] <schweeb> captive requires microsoft's NTFS driver
[06:01] <wasabi_> It's there.
[06:01] <wasabi_>  /windows/WINDOWS/System32/NTFS.dll
[06:01] <wasabi_> =)
[06:01] <schweeb> you need a specific version, matching what captive expects
[06:01] <wasabi_> I think knoppix did this.
[06:01] <wasabi_> And it works.
[06:02] <schweeb> knoppix includes a script that downloads this driver for you
[06:03] <schweeb> afaik
[06:03] <schweeb> and/or they can get away with it a bit, because it's not a commercially supported distro (ubuntu is gaining commercial support, through canonical)
[06:04] <wasabi_> I would think Captive would be able to use any NTFS.dll version from Xp anyways
[06:04] <daniels> gnar
[06:04] <daniels> svenl: ping
[06:04] <wasabi_> Aren't they all the same? Maybe slight modes for sps
[06:04] <schweeb> wasabi_: nope
[06:04] <schweeb> it wants a specific version in all of my experiences
[06:05] <wasabi_> Guess it should just be fixed. ;)
[06:05] <wasabi_> Either way, ya can mount /windows originally with the read only ones, copy NTFS.DLL, and remount it with the new ones pretty easily.
[06:05] <schweeb> think it's just due to how captive works
[06:05] <schweeb> like I said...
[06:05] <schweeb> copying NTFS.dll doesn't necessarily work
[06:06] <fabbione> daniels: libxtst is FTBFS...
[06:06] <fabbione> daniels: ETA for a fixed version?=
[06:06] <fabbione> libxevie too
[06:06] <schweeb> daniels: no sleep for you until X is release ready!
[06:07] <wasabi_> Yeah, doesn't support SP2
[06:08] <wasabi_> I suspect that could be fixed.
[06:09] <schweeb> wasabi_: you can't really depend upon users having a certain version of windows installed
[06:10] <daniels> fabbione: both fixed
[06:10] <schweeb> some may have 2k, 2k3 server ,xp sp1, xp sp2... or any patchlevel thereof
[06:10] <daniels> fabbione: libxevie was fine, it's just that I forgot to upload the new x11proto-evie
[06:10] <fabbione> daniels: that's sitting in NEW now... right?
[06:11] <daniels> should be in the queue
[06:11] <wasabi_> schweeb, huh?
[06:11] <wasabi_> Sure you can. There is a finite set.
[06:12] <fabbione> daniels: i just got my adsl upgraded at 6Mb/768 :)
[06:12] <daniels> fabbione: eh, I uploaded it all of two minutes ago
[06:12] <daniels> nice
[06:12] <daniels> i still have 1.5
[06:12] <fabbione> ah ok..
[06:12] <fabbione> i tought you did a while ago :)
[06:13] <daniels> ah, no
[06:13] <daniels> i prepared it days ago
[06:13] <daniels> just never got to upload it
[06:13] <fabbione> punk
[06:13] <schweeb> wasabi_: you'd have to know at which patchlevels in between NTFS.DLL was changed, and account for each one.  and as I said, I'm pretty sure captive wants an exact version of said dll
[06:14] <lifeless> rotfl
[06:15] <wasabi_> Just fix Captive to work with them all. ;)
[06:16] <schweeb> wasabi_: think it's just part of how captive works
[06:54] <schweeb> is is a known bug, dev nodes not being created for /dev/input/mice and /dev/psaux, even though psmouse and mousedev are loaded?
[06:54] <schweeb> can't exactly check bugzilla right now, as my X isn't working due to these 2 issues...
[06:55] <daniels> apparently udev is having issues
[06:56] <schweeb> wonderful
[06:56] <schweeb> could someone give me the major/minors for those 2 nodes plz?
[06:57] <daniels> crw-rw----  1 root root 13, 63 2005-07-09 16:46 /dev/input/mice
[06:57] <daniels> crw-rw----  1 root root 10,  1 2005-07-09 16:46 /dev/psaux
[06:58] <schweeb> much appreciated
[06:58] <daniels> np
[07:00] <schweeb> and that fixed it
[07:00] <schweeb> whee
[07:09] <schweeb> is udevd having issues, or is it in the conf files?
[07:28] <jsgotangco> hi
[07:40] <sivang> morning all
[08:32] <sivang> does anybody know if the laptop testing team propsal is still on?
[09:04] <doko> Kamion, mdz: please promote xcursorgen to main, split out from the xbase-clients package, all packages in main depending on kdelibs4-dev currently FTBFS
[09:05] <daniels> xvinfo as well
[09:06] <HrdwrBoB> xvattrib?
[09:06] <daniels> yeah, we need to get xvattr in
[09:06] <daniels> but it not being in main won't cause anything b-d'ing or depending on xbase-cleints to ftbfs ;)
[09:07] <daniels> -> doesn't make doko quite as upset
[09:07] <HrdwrBoB> heh no :)
[09:11] <doko> upset? no, I'm quiet, I'm really quiet, I'm not upset, I'm not even getting upset. Really. 
[09:11] <doko> ;)
[09:17] <svenl> daniels: pong ?
[09:19] <daniels> svenl: my pegasos is broken to hell
[09:20] <dilinger> svenl: did you see my message yesterday?
[09:20] <dilinger> regarding the build failure
[09:24] <svenl> dilinger: don't think so.
[09:25] <svenl> daniels: huh ? Can you give any more diagnostic info than that :)
[09:25] <dilinger> svenl: log into the ppc machine as user guest
[09:25] <dilinger> and run screen -rD
[09:26] <dilinger> (or screen -rD <pid>, if there's multiple ones)
[09:26] <dilinger> and you can see the build error i got
[09:26] <svenl> dilinger: ok, but we are on wrong forum now.
[09:26] <svenl> here i mean.
[09:26] <dilinger> *shrug*
[09:26] <dilinger> just passing the message along, we can discuss it later if there's anything to discuss
[09:42] <svenl> Kamion: ping ?
[09:42] <svenl> Kamion: did you activate the mkvmlinuz calls on the daily builds ?
[10:04] <mdeboer> hello
[10:05] <mdeboer> anybody knows what version of debian-installer was used to create the hoary livecd?
[10:05] <Treenaks> mdeboer: the version that is in hoary, probably
[10:05] <mdeboer> yes, sorry
[10:05] <mdeboer> i see 
[10:10] <mako> whiprush: i haven't talked to him for a little while
[10:30] <Kamion> daniels: xcursorgen promoted
[10:30] <Kamion> svenl: er, ENOCONTEXT
[10:31] <Kamion> daniels: although again, please remove its Conflicts on xbase-clients
[10:32] <daniels> Kamion: right.  will do that when I get to uploading it.
[10:32] <daniels> only had the chance to do it for xvinfo so far
[10:32] <daniels> thanks for the promotion
[10:32] <fabbione> Kamion: hey dude..
[10:32] <Kamion> yo
[10:32] <JaneW> APPEAL: doesn;t someone wants to take on PrintingRpoadmap and give it some love? Pretty please? http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/PrintingRoadmap
[10:33] <daniels> not me sorry, I'm overcommitted already
[10:33] <svenl> Kamion: a couple of month ago, i asked you to enable the mkvmlinuz call in the ubuntu-installer builds to generate the vmlinuz for chrp at least, and maybe even the two prep.
[10:34] <svenl> Kamion: not including them in the cds is ok, but maybe they could go in the common dvd, since there the place constraint is not as strong.
[10:34] <sivang> JaneW: I already hacked on gnome print, I may give it a glance but since I'm already started some work on LaunchpadINtegration, not sure how much time I have for it
[10:35] <sivang> JaneW: I did the "enable" browing stuff :-)
[10:40] <pef> hello
[10:40] <JaneW> sivang: cool, whatever you can do will help :))
[10:40] <svenl> Kamion: i will fix nobootloader to pull in mkvmlinuz and make the call, so it will be complete in this way.
[10:41] <mdeboer> i am trying to build linux-kernel-di-386-2.6, but it (kernel-wedge) complains about missing firmwares...
[10:41] <mdeboer> kernel-wedge copy-firmware 2.6.12-rt-v0.7.51-28 386 2.6.12-rt-v0.7.51-28-386
[10:41] <mdeboer> missing firmware atmel_at76c502.bin
[10:41] <mdeboer> any idea? i have the firmware package installed
[10:42] <Kamion> svenl: it's a udeb bug
[10:42] <Kamion> fabbione: please add /usr/lib/linux-image-* to the kernel-image udeb on powerpc
[10:43] <Kamion> mdeboer: linux-kernel-di-i386-2.6 isn't the supported way to build udebs for our kernels any more; the linux-source-* source packages build them directly
[10:43] <mdeboer> Kamion: how?
[10:43] <Kamion> mdeboer: normal package build
[10:43] <fabbione> Kamion: hmmm is that the same we did a long time ago?
[10:44] <Kamion> fabbione: you did it for the .deb, but not the kernel-image .udeb
[10:44] <fabbione> Kamion: i am not sure if we can easily do that.. but i will look into it
[10:44] <svenl> Kamion: huh ?
[10:44] <mdeboer> Kamion: uhm...
[10:44] <svenl> Kamion: this time is me that don 't follow ....
[10:44] <Kamion> svenl: please read context SURROUNDING what I said ;-)
[10:45] <Kamion> fabbione: oh, hang on, it might be a kernel-wedge thing, one sec
[10:45] <fabbione> Kamion: yes.. that's what i meant
[10:45] <Kamion> fabbione: yeah, I'll fix
[10:45] <svenl> i still don't get it.
[10:45] <fabbione> Kamion: ok, just be sure that they don't land in the ppc64 too...
[10:45] <svenl> Kamion: and am i right in thinking that it is fully unrelated to what i asked you ? 
[10:45] <mdeboer> Kamion: let's get this straight... I downloaded the linux-source-2.6.12 from the ubuntu pool, patched it, and did a make-kpkg .... binary
[10:46] <fabbione> Kamion: the postinst hook that does that for ppc is not installed in the ppc64 flavour
[10:46] <svenl> make-kpkg is fully broken :)
[10:46] <mdeboer> Kamion: that gave me a bunch of packages, included the image i am running now, but no udebs.
[10:46] <svenl> maybe make-kpkg should be patched to prodyce the udebs also.
[10:46] <mdeboer> Kamion: it also gives me a new linux-source package with my patched kernel
[10:46] <svenl> or fully replaced or something.
[10:47] <fabbione> svenl: dude... make-kpkg does NOT make udebs
[10:47] <svenl> fabbione: exact, it should though.
[10:47] <fabbione> mdeboer: you need to look at how is done in apt-get source linux-source-2.6.12
[10:47] <svenl> fabbione: the idea would be to be able to generate exact the same packages using the official build stuff or make-kpkg, this was the initial goal of make-kpkg.
[10:47] <fabbione> svenl: no. it's not make-kpkg job to do it.
[10:47] <fabbione> there is kernel-wedge for it
[10:48] <svenl> fabbione: well, there should be a make-kpkg target to call kernel-wedge, don't you think ? 
[10:48] <Kamion> svenl: no please stop it I'm fixing it.
[10:48] <svenl> Kamion: it -> make-kpkg ? 
[10:48] <Kamion> mdeboer: use dpkg-buildpackage
[10:48] <svenl> Kamion: ah, ok.
[10:48] <Kamion> svenl: no.
[10:49] <svenl> Kamion: you still didn't reply to me about the mkvmlinuz call in the installer builds.
[10:49] <mdeboer> Kamion: ok. i'll try.
[10:49] <Kamion> svenl: I'M FIXING IT
[10:49] <Kamion> OK? :-)
[10:49] <svenl> Kamion: mmm , sorry, i probably got totally confused by the 2 (3?) discussions going about here.
[10:49] <Kamion> svenl: as I say it's a bug in our kernel-image udeb, not in the installer builds
[10:50] <svenl> Kamion: could you explicit the "it" part of your phrase for poor confused me ?
[10:50] <mdeboer> Kamion: i appreciate your help. I sent a mail to the ubuntu-devel mailinglist, explaining what i am doing, and why.
[10:50] <Kamion> svenl: which is due to a bug in kernel-wedge, which I am fixing now
[10:50] <Kamion> svenl: the installer builds *do* include a call to mkvmlinuz. That call fails because the /usr/lib/linux-image-* directory is missing from our kernel-image udeb.
[10:50] <svenl> Kamion: ah, ok.
[10:51] <svenl> Kamion: thanks.
[10:52] <svenl> Kamion: thanks for fixing it.
[10:52] <mdeboer> Kamion: just to make sure, i am using hoary, so no 2.6.12 source package here. if i take the breezy 2.6.12, would that give me any problems?
[10:52] <Kamion> svenl: I was having the discussion with fabbione as well as with you, because I briefly thought that it must be a bug in the kernel build process; sorry if that confused you
[10:53] <Kamion> mdeboer: linux-source-2.6.10 generates udebs too
[10:53] <Kamion> mdeboer: yes, you need newer initrd-tools and possibly newer udev; we don't support 2.6.12 on hoary ...
[10:53] <Kamion> it gets complex
[10:53] <svenl> Kamion: yeah, it was rather strange, especially as you adked me to read the surrounding which was full of 's problem :)
[10:54] <mdeboer> Kamion: ok.
[10:54] <Kamion> 09:42 < Kamion> svenl: it's a udeb bug
[10:54] <Kamion> 09:42 < Kamion> fabbione: please add /usr/lib/linux-image-* to the kernel-image udeb on powerpc
[10:54] <Kamion> that :-)
[10:54] <mdeboer> Kamion: i need 2.6.12, because i want to use the latest rt-preempt patch
[10:54] <svenl> Kamion: ah, well.
[10:54] <svenl> 10:35 <deboer> am trying to build linux-kernel-di-386-2.6, but it (kernel-wedge) complains about missing firmwares...
[10:54] <svenl> 10:35 <deboer>ernel-wedge copy-firmware 2.6.12-rt-v0.7.51-28 386 2.6.12-rt-v0.7.51-28-386
[10:54] <svenl> 10:35 <deboer>issing firmware atmel_at76c502.bin
[10:54] <svenl> 10:36 <deboer>ny idea? i have the firmware package installed
[10:54] <svenl> 10:36 <Kamion>venl: it's a udeb bug
[10:54] <svenl> :)
[10:55] <fabbione> svenl: if you stop flooding the chan, you won't have to worry about screen eating one char
[10:55] <Kamion> svenl: anyhow, kernel-wedge 2.05ubuntu2 should fix this; thanks for drawing it to my attention
[10:55] <fabbione> svenl: try to change to a more sensible locale...
[10:56] <fabbione> like avoid {fr,*}_{*,FR} ;)
[10:57] <Lathiat> fabbione: you know that expands to *_* as well ;)
[10:57] <fabbione> Lathiat: yes.. it still allow you to use LANG=C
[10:57] <fabbione> given there is no _
[10:57] <Lathiat> true
[10:57] <Lathiat> i use en_AU.UTF-8
[10:57] <Lathiat> works good
[10:58] <razr23> X works again, but depends are missing for xserver-xorg-input-kbd and mouse. maybe you already know that
[10:59] <mdeboer> Kamion: if i manage to succesfully generate the udebs, and i modify the hoary live-cd to include those, and the 2.6.12 vmlinuz, and the initrd to include the 2.6.12 modules, do you think the livecd will work?
[10:59] <Kamion> razr23: yes, we know, the fix hasn't made it into the archive yet
[10:59] <Kamion> mdeboer: you'll have to modify a LOT of stuff, including the debian-installer source package
[10:59] <mdeboer> Kamion: the problem is, i cannot find any documentation on generating the livecd from scratch...
[11:00] <Kamion> mdeboer: there isn't any yet :(
[11:00] <svenl> fabbione: nope, it has been happening everytime since i arrived in HEL, must be something funny going on.
[11:00] <mdeboer> Kamion: i did manage to boot the livecd with 2.6.12
[11:00] <mdeboer> Kamion: it fails when it looks for the module udebs.
[11:00] <Kamion> mdeboer: yeah, I'm sure it won't load any modules though
[11:01] <svenl> fabbione: i run ubuntu with probably fr-utf8 on the laptop, and debian with probably fr-latin1 on the server box where irssi is running, probably that.
[11:01] <mdeboer> Kamion: well, it loads the initial modules from the initrd
[11:01] <svenl> Kamion: no problem, i was helping daniels out doing a pegasos install, which brang it to my attention.
[11:01] <Kamion> mdeboer: yeah
[11:01] <mdeboer> Kamion: if i put the 2.6.12 module udebs on the cdrom, wouldn't that be enough?
[11:01] <Kamion> mdeboer: you could follow the documented customise-an-existing-live-CD process to slam the new kernel package in
[11:02] <svenl> lui doesn't help, oh well.
[11:02] <Kamion> mdeboer: you really need to rebuild debian-installer against that new kernel, modifying stuff in build/config/
[11:02] <Kamion> and if you're unlucky, build/pkg-lists/ too
[11:02] <mdeboer> Kamion: ok, using the hoary debian-installer?
[11:03] <Kamion> mdeboer: using hoary, you have to port it to 2.6.12. As I said.
[11:06] <mdeboer> Kamion: yes, but i meant, would it be better to use hoary's debian installer, and modify it to 2.6.12, or use breezy's debian installer and backport it?
[11:07] <Kamion> mdeboer: I'm honestly not sure. I'd probably do the former.
[11:08] <chrissturm> hey guys, how do i get my keyboard back in X?
[11:08] <jsgotangco> hi
[11:09] <Lathiat> chrissturm: xserver-xorg-input-kbd s/keyboard/kbd in xorg.conf
[11:09] <Lathiat> chrissturm: or wait 
[11:09] <mdeboer> Kamion: ok. but first things first. I will build the linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.12 with dpkg-buildpackage
[11:09] <jsgotangco> waiting is good
[11:09] <chrissturm> thx Lathiat
[11:13] <Kamion> daniels: so, uh, is the Xtst build failure in xorg -39 known?
[11:16] <mdeboer> hmm... dpkg-buildpackage fails at: cp -p debian/patches/00list-3.4 debian/patches/00list
[11:17] <mdeboer> oh, i understand why
[11:17] <mdeboer> sorry
[11:26] <mdeboer> Kamion: should I apply my kernel patch inside linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.12, before running dpkg-buildpackage there, or should i do that later on?
[11:27] <Kamion> mdeboer: the former
[11:28] <Kamion> mdeboer: well, stick it in debian/patches/ and massage stuff to make it apply
[11:28] <Kamion> mdeboer: at that point you are out of the realm of things I am familiar with
[11:28] <mdeboer> ok
[11:30] <SloMoSnail> where can i request a resync of a universe package from debian? we have a *-ubuntu1 version but the changes from the debian version are not relevant anymore so a plain resync will do
[11:45] <herve> hello
[11:51] <herve> I guess debconf took the people I was trying to reach
[11:52] <dave_>  hi! shot question: i am creating a custom-ubuntu-cd! i do it all in my shell-scripts - what i wonder: can you download the build-shell-scripts/tools of ubuntu anywhere? i _can_ create my own build system - but do i have to ?
[11:55] <Kamion> apt-get install bazaar && baz register-archive http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/archives/colin.watson@canonical.com--2005 && baz get colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/cdimage--mainline--0 cdimage && cd cdimage && baz build-config configs/devel
[11:56] <Kamion> ... or words to that effect ...
[11:56] <Kamion> you'll have to poke at it a fair bit to make it work on your system - changing paths and such
[11:57] <herve> hello Kamion, I was trying to reach you or mdz about merging packages with debian unstable 
[11:59] <dave_> thanks Kamion !
[11:59] <dave_> i will try that!
[12:07] <Kamion> herve: yes?
[12:08] <herve> dia 0.94-11 contains all of my patches plus one
[12:08] <herve> so we can drop the -ubuntu stuff
[12:09] <herve> no, more than one
[12:10] <pef> can I put 755 files in /usr/share/foo/* ? it's for a tcl/tk script package
[12:10] <tseng> ugh, no?
[12:11] <herve> pef, it should be in /usr/lib then, no?
[12:11] <pef> herve: I don't know how to to things properly. I want a script be in the $PATH, can I 755 the script in /usr/share/foo, and symlink it to /usr/bin ?
[12:12] <herve> seems bad to me
[12:12] <herve> Kamion, now packages.ubuntu.com tell me dia is in universe... so I could upload it as a motu
[12:12] <pef> herve: to me too, but see that : $ find /usr/share/ -type f -perm 755 |grep -v examples
[12:12] <herve> last time, seb128 had to upload it for me, I'm getting lost
[12:13] <herve> pef, broken upstream? :-)
[12:13] <pef> hum
[12:14] <Kamion> herve: the source is in main
[12:14] <pef> herve: so, how can I do ? leave the script as 644, and wrote a wrapper script in /usr/bin/foo ?
[12:14] <Kamion> herve: and you must not just upload in cases where you're syncing back to the exact Debian version
[12:14] <Kamion> herve: anyway, I've reviewed the changes, and syncing looks fine. Please mail James Troup with the sync request, saying that I've approved it.
[12:15] <herve> Kamion, ok thanks
[12:15] <bob2> herve: non-arch-specific things should not be in /sr/lib
[12:15] <herve> /usr/share you mean?
[12:15] <bob2> no
[12:15] <herve> or arch-specific?
[12:16] <Kamion> ... unless it's gratuitously inconvenient for them to be elsewhere
[12:16] <bob2> well, yeah
[12:16] <bob2> but sticking a pile of TCL in /usr/lib/ seems kinda pointless
[12:16] <Kamion> having non-arch-specific things in /usr/lib is only a dubious space problem at worst. having arch-specific things in /usr/share is actually a problem
[12:16] <herve> argh, I missed the two negations!
[12:16] <lifeless> TCL is pointless
[12:16] <Kamion> people get a bit too religious about the former
[12:17] <fabbione> Rejected: libxtst6-dbg_6.8.2-40_sparc.deb: old version (1:1.13.0-1) in breezy >= new version (6.8.2-40) targeted at breezy.
[12:17] <fabbione> Rejected: libxtst6_6.8.2-40_sparc.deb: old version (1:1.13.0-1) in breezy >= new version (6.8.2-40) targeted at breezy.
[12:17] <fabbione> Rejected: libxtst-dev_6.8.2-40_sparc.deb: old version (1:1.13.0-1) in breezy >= new version (6.8.2-40) targeted at breezy.
[12:22] <sivang> Kamion: do you make distinction between ppc64 installer images and 32bit ones?
[12:44] <Nafallo> still no debs for amd64?
[12:49] <mdeboer> if dpkg-buildpackage in linux-sources-2.6.12-2.6.12 fails halfway, is there a way to restart the process?
[12:50] <mdeboer> without recompiling everything
[12:52] <Kamion> infinity: could you dep-wait libxtst on x11proto-xext-dev (>= 6.8.99.7-2), please?
[12:53] <ogra> highvoltage, ping
[12:55] <Mithrandir> pitti: are you going to resync zlib in breezy with debian soonish? I uploaded a sash which needs a newer zlib1g (which is fixed in ubuntu, but I can't depend on the ubuntu versions in any sane way)
[12:55] <sivang> hi pitti ! back in home ?
[12:55] <pitti> Mithrandir: sure, I can do that
[12:56] <pitti> Mithrandir: but probably not before Monday
[12:56] <Mithrandir> pitti: sure, no hurry.
[12:56] <pitti> sivang: no, still at debconf5
[12:58] <sivang> pitti: how is it going? nice progress?
[12:58] <sivang> hey davyd 
[12:58] <davyd> hey
[01:03] <pitti> sivang: pretty relaxed, and nice to meet so many of fellow DDs here :-)
[01:04] <davyd> hmm, is it still tseng's timezone?
[01:21] <shackan> hi pitti, would you mind if I pm you ?
[01:24] <davyd> hmm, I might have to go to breezy anyway, just so that I get gcc-4.0
[01:27] <fabbione> Kamion: TypeError: unpack non-sequence
[01:27] <fabbione> does it mean anything to you?
[01:35] <Kamion> fabbione: find a python expert :)
[01:36] <fabbione> Kamion: i did :) thanks
[01:40] <ogra> hey swimmer ace ...
[01:42] <fabbione> hey mdz
[01:42] <rob^> has an actual date been set for Breezy's release yet?
[01:42] <ogra> rob^, sure look at the release plan on the wiki....
[01:42] <rob^> ok
[01:43] <rob^> just wondering if software freedom day is before or after it :)
[01:43] <ogra> rob^, the dates are quite fixed in oct. and apr. for all our releases
[01:44] <rob^> ah ok
[01:44] <rob^> np
[01:45] <Kamion> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule
[01:45] <rob^> looking at it now
[01:47] <mdz> fabbione: morning
[01:55] <fabbione> mdz: how is going? having fun?
[01:56] <ogra> fabbione, he has, obviously : http://oskuro.net/blog/travel/pop-the-trunk-2005-07-14-09-23 
[01:56] <ogra> *g*
[01:58] <mdz> fabbione: yes, very much so
[01:58] <fabbione> ehhehe
[01:59] <ogra> mdz, do you think it makes sense to have a fontserver on the LTSP machine ? does that raise or reduce the bandwith ?
[01:59] <fabbione> ogra: probably reduce
[01:59] <fabbione> because you will get to ask only for the fonts you need without accessing the FS as nfs
[01:59] <ogra> \sh, yay
[01:59] <fabbione> so need to scan the FS to find the fonts
[02:00] <ogra> fabbione, thats what i thought, but i found different reports about bandwith usage... there seems to be a 50/50 opinion out there...
[02:01] <ogra> but since we have crazy people out there that want hundrets of fonts installed, a fontserver probably makes sense
[02:01] <fabbione> test it is probably the best
[02:01] <ogra> yes... i thought i could come around that :)
[02:02] <ogra> i imagine you 'll probably have a DOS if all pupils boot theirs systems at the same time
[02:02] <Treenaks> ogra: not really.. font-servers are not really complex
[02:03] <\sh> ogra: provide some common fonts on the clients and put other fonts which are normally not used in a common sense on the fontsrv
[02:03] <ogra> Treenaks, but havin 20~50 machines on the net loading the fonts at the same time ? 
[02:03] <Treenaks> ogra: no prob
[02:03] <ogra> \sh, yes thats the idea
[02:03] <Treenaks> ogra: they were designed to do that :)
[02:03] <mdz> ogra: LTSP includes font server capability, but I haven't incorporated that yet
[02:03] <Treenaks> ogra: though I only tested with ~10 clients
[02:03] <mdz> ogra: I expect that it won't make much of a difference for GNOME
[02:04] <mdz> or KDE
[02:04] <ogra> mdz, and a mix ? ;)
[02:05] <\sh> no problem :)
[02:05] <ogra> i'll do some testing after the seeds are ready and i can take a breath...
[02:09] <Amaranth> so...
[02:09] <Amaranth> is edubuntu using GNOME?
[02:10] <Treenaks> Amaranth: of course :P
[02:10] <Amaranth> good :P
[02:10] <ogra> Amaranth, yes, for the first release it does... i think we'll have kde as an option available in the breezy+1 release....we mix up the apps anyway
[02:10] <Treenaks> Amaranth: otherwise it'd be kedubuntu or edkubuntu and those just don't sound right ;)
[02:10] <Amaranth> I might look into doing group menu changes then.
[02:10] <ogra> yay
[02:10] <Amaranth> it'll be a hack
[02:11] <Amaranth> Basically we make the users not able to touch their own ~/.config/menus/, ~/.local/share/applications/, and ~/.local/share/desktop-directories/
[02:11] <ogra> Amaranth, i'll get the source to an awesome user management tool on the weekend, lets see if we can incorporate your stuff there
[02:11] <Amaranth> groups would have to be defined in a tool though
[02:11] <Amaranth> ok
[02:11] <Treenaks> ogra: apt-get source sabayon ? :P
[02:11] <ogra> Treenaks, and the KDE aps ?
[02:12] <Amaranth> sabayon needs everything to be in gconf
[02:12] <Treenaks> ogra: if you ignore them, they'll go away ;)
[02:12] <Amaranth> this is why people want fd.o to define a common config system for the _entire_ system
[02:12] <Treenaks> Amaranth: but sabayon defined groups too, right?
[02:12] <\sh> wine_0.0.20050628 uploaded
[02:12] <ogra> Treenaks, sabayon only gives me access to the gconf settings... no vnc takeover of the pupils desktop, no further management
[02:12] <\sh> winehq packages are on their way ,-)
[02:12] <Treenaks> ogra: true.. but it might help as a basic "set up" tool?
[02:13] <ogra> Treenaks, the tool i'll get is specially tailored for classrom maintenance aleady... its only drawback is TCL :)
[02:13] <Amaranth> *shudder*
[02:13] <ogra> heh
[02:13] <Treenaks> ogra: Rewrite in python! Rewrite! ;)
[02:14] <ogra> Treenaks, i doubt i'll have the time for that in the first release, but thats the longterm plan ;)
[02:14] <Treenaks> ogra: thought so.. cool
[02:14] <Amaranth> I don't know TCL and I would want to port thousands of lines of Python to TCL just for menu editing. :)
[02:14] <Amaranth> Smeg itself isn't very large but that's because it leans heavily on PyXDG, which is fscking huge.
[02:14] <ogra> (the longterm plan actually is to write our own tool that aggregates the best of all the others indeed)
[02:15] <Treenaks> Amaranth: that's with most python programs
[02:15] <Treenaks> Amaranth: the programs are tiny, but the libs are HUGE
[02:15] <ogra> Amaranth, its far more then menu editing
[02:15] <Amaranth> hehe
[02:15] <Amaranth> PyXDG is, sure
[02:15] <Amaranth> but 80% of the code (or more) is menu editting
[02:15] <ogra> Amaranth, not at all
[02:16] <ogra> Amaranth, see a outline here: http://edubuntu.org/TeachersPet
[02:16] <Amaranth> you can say all of it is though, since the other things it supports are used by the menu system
[02:16] <\sh> Subject: wine_0.0.20050628-1_source.changes ACCEPTED
[02:16] <\sh> yay
[02:16] <Amaranth> ogra: I was talking about pyxdg
[02:16] <ogra> Amaranth, ah... ok
[02:17] <ogra> \sh, did you make the package building on i386 only ? i heard they work on a amd64 and ppc solution too... is that in already ?
[02:17] <Amaranth> ha
[02:17] <Amaranth> wine can only work on amd64 and ppc with emulation
[02:18] <\sh> ogra: i should build for all...actually, if this is working right now, I can do some other changes on the packages...
[02:19] <ogra> \sh, lets see... if it builds for amd64 i'll test it ;)
[02:19] <\sh> Amaranth: if winxp64 is working we will have a wine64 ,-)
[02:19] <Amaranth> \sh: only for programs compiled for just winxp64
[02:19] <\sh> well...I have to go and find a place to hide
[02:19] <siretart> \sh: grats for wine :)
[02:20] <Amaranth> or did they fake it like apple does?
[02:20] <Amaranth> can't you make it built as 32-bit on amd64?
[02:20] <siretart> \sh: do you know if wine will be able to run win32 apps on amd64? 
[02:20] <\sh> Amaranth: i think MS is using some compat layer 
[02:20] <\sh> siretart: poke ogra ;) he can test if it's building
[02:20] <siretart> :)
[02:21] <\sh> Amaranth:hmm...that's an idea
 I have to earn more money, I need reference computers, and I have to change the 24h mode of a day to 96h</mindnote>
[02:23] <ogra> Amaranth, sure you can
[02:24] <\sh> ogra: http://www.netzwelt.de/news/71893_4-kolumne-warum-niemand-auf-linux.html
[02:24] <\sh> smoking
[02:24] <Amaranth> stupid body, needing sleep
[02:24] <Amaranth> why can't we just stay awake non-stop? :)
[02:24] <ogra> Amaranth, get rid of it then... :)
[02:24] <Amaranth> not needing it right now, just got it
[02:25] <Amaranth> after 30 hours of not getting it...
[02:26] <ogra> yay
[02:26] <Kamion> that should get live CDs and such going again
[02:26] <ogra> yay++
[02:27] <Amaranth> colony 3?
[02:27] <Kamion> at least once the desktop is installable. er.
[02:27] <Kamion> Amaranth: patience, padawan
[02:27] <Amaranth> it's not installable right now?
[02:27] <ogra> does it fix pbuilder too ? you cant bootstrap breezy directly currently
[02:27] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/ <- no
[02:27] <Kamion> ogra: pbuilder just uses debootstrap
[02:27] <Kamion> sme problem
[02:27] <Kamion> +a
[02:27] <ogra> yep
[02:28] <Amaranth> oh, capplets
[02:28] <Amaranth> wtf, gcc4 can't be installed?
[02:28] <Amaranth> oh, amd64
[02:29] <Kamion> please don't go through being surprised at all of the entries on channel - you're welcome to analyse what's wrong with them and suggest fixes though :)
[02:29] <Amaranth> ok, i know the solution: drop amd64 support ;)
[02:29] <Kamion> sigh, maybe that URL should be *less* public rather than more :P
[02:30] <Amaranth> seeing how i don't have an amd64 machine i don't think i can be of much help here
[02:32] <Kamion> the amd64 buildds are currently down (or were, last I checked), so I would suggest not worrying too much about amd64 problems at the moment - many of them are probably due to that
[02:36] <fabbione> Kamion mdz Keybuk: you will love this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/Screenshot-1.png
[02:37] <fabbione> it
[02:37] <fabbione> it's not exactly bug free :) but we can get there ;)
[02:43] <Amaranth> wow, i actually found someone who uses GNOME's default theme :)
[02:43] <fabbione> Amaranth: you are talking about me ... yes. i never spend time customizing my desktop
[02:43] <ogra> Amaranth, isnt clearlooks gnomes default since a while ? 
[02:43] <Amaranth> but you should have Human :)
[02:43] <Amaranth> ogra: no
[02:44] <Amaranth> ogra: they've been talking about changed the default since 2.8 and clearlooks is one of the suggestions, nothing has happened
[02:44] <ogra> Amaranth, i think they switched with 2.10....
[02:44] <Amaranth> err, changing
[02:44] <sivang> fabbione: is this the clustering gui control written in python?
[02:45] <fabbione> Amaranth: i just can't be bothered to customize when every once in a while i scratch all my systems to test install-cd or net install aand so on
[02:45] <fabbione> sivang: yeps... i didn't write it.. be aware
[02:45] <fabbione> sivang: i am just trying to make it working :)
[02:45] <sivang> fabbione: so cool, wh did it?
[02:46] <fabbione> redhat
[02:48] <Keybuk> so Xorg is broken again today?
[02:49] <Keybuk> (WW) Warning, couldn't open module ati
[02:49] <fabbione> Keybuk: did you see the screenshot? ;)
[02:49] <Keybuk> (WW) Warning, couldn't open module keyboard
[02:49] <Kamion> Keybuk: topic
[02:49] <Kamion> it's stuck in various buildd fun
[02:49] <Keybuk> gah
[02:49] <Kamion> 11:52 < Kamion> infinity: could you dep-wait libxtst on x11proto-xext-dev (>= 6.8.99.7-2), please?
[02:49] <Kamion> I think that's the current blocker
[02:50] <Kamion> hm, I wonder if I can set dep-waits ...
[02:51] <fabbione> Kamion: if you can set Dep-Wait, you can just kick back
[02:52] <fabbione> Kamion: i can probably help you with w-b
[02:52] <fabbione> but i only know the direct interface.. not the mail one
[02:53] <fabbione> Kamion: in any case xorg -40 will be REJECTED
[02:53] <fabbione> even if you build it
[02:53] <fabbione> (see the scroll back from this morning)
[02:54] <Keybuk> I'm guessing this won't be fixed any time soon, then?
[02:54] <Keybuk> what's the easy way to undo the damage?
[02:54] <davyd> man, I feel like a Gentoo developer
[02:54] <fabbione> Keybuk: there is none afaik
[02:55] <Kamion> I just set "Database for breezy doesn't exist"
[02:55] <Keybuk> can I download and install the hoary X packages?
[02:55] <davyd> or user
[02:55] <fabbione> Keybuk: probably the keyboard thing is something i heard of s/keyboar/kbd/
[02:55] <fabbione> Keybuk: but i am not sure about the ATI. that might be due to the missing Depends: on the proper driver
[02:56] <ogra> Keybuk, change keyboard to kbd in xorg.conf ...
[02:56] <Kamion> Keybuk: you can install the xserver-xorg-{driver,input}-* packages by hand
[02:56] <Amaranth> wow, someone turned gecko into a server tool
[02:56] <ogra> dunno if it solves the ati prob though
[02:56] <Kamion> fabbione: right, but need to get libxtst sorted first
[02:57] <fabbione> Kamion: yes.. you need the external libxtst to be able to build -40, but -40 will be reject because it still has it :)
[02:57] <fabbione> Kamion: do you have access to w-b ?
[02:57] <fabbione> Kamion: if so a command like wanna-build -d breezy --give-back libxtst_$version should do
[02:58] <fabbione> you will have to do it as buildd user i guess..
[02:58] <fabbione> dunno the exact details of the config over there
[02:59] <Keybuk> (EE) Failed to load module "kbd" (module does not exist, 0)
[02:59] <Keybuk> (EE) Failed to load module "mouse" (module does not exist, 0)
[02:59] <ogra> meh
[02:59] <Keybuk> ati fixed though
[02:59] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: apt-get install xserver-xorg-input-{kbd,mouse}
[03:00] <Amaranth> xserver-xorg-input-mouse, xserver-xorg-input-kbd
[03:00] <Keybuk> ah, got it, missed those
[03:00] <Keybuk> (I was looking for -driver-input-...)
[03:00] <Kamion> libxtst: not taken by you, but by buildd+rothera. Skipping.
[03:00] <Kamion> I don't have access to the buildds so that might not work
[03:01] <Kamion> fabbione: ^--
[03:02] <fabbione> Kamion: hold on a sec..
[03:02] <Keybuk> thanks guys, that works :)
[03:02] <Kamion> I don't know if I can use -U safely
[03:02] <fabbione> Kamion: wanna-build --user=buildd+rothera --override -d breezy --give-back libxtst_$version 
[03:02] <mdeboer> hm.. the rt-preempt patch and the ubuntu 2.6.12 patches don't play nice...
[03:03] <Kamion> fabbione: is that safe to do as the katie user on jackass?
[03:03] <fabbione> Kamion: in the worst case you will get w-b to error on you
[03:03] <fabbione> i guess so...
[03:03] <mdeboer> do you think any of the 2.6.12 ubuntu patches are needed for a properly working live cd?
[03:03] <fabbione> i have no idea how/if it is customized
[03:03] <fabbione> here i get an error if the operation is invalif
[03:03] <fabbione> invalid
[03:04] <fabbione> Kamion: you probably want to check under what user the wanna-build db are stored
[03:04] <fabbione> and use that user as --user=
[03:04] <Keybuk> pmount/udev/gnome-volume-manager is broke as well
[03:05] <Kamion> fabbione: ok, given-back on i386/powerpc/ia64, I'll blame you if it goes wrong ;-)
[03:05] <fabbione> Kamion: if it is a standard install ls -alsd /var/debbuild will tell you
[03:05] <pef> what's about the libaa transition ? I can't find the wiki page
[03:05] <fabbione> Kamion: ok :)
[03:05] <fabbione> Kamion: or we can blame gtk because there is no GUI to wb :P
[03:05] <Kamion> didn't need --override
[03:07] <Kamion> I think daniels is in the middle of his sleep cycle - I might fix xorg too
[03:09] <doko> lamont-away, infinity: please requeue openoffice.org2 on the i386 and powerpc buildd
[03:17] <sivang> fabbione, Kamion : what is wanna-build used for?
[03:17] <Kamion> sivang: buildd coordination
[03:18] <ogra> sivang, http://www.nl.debian.org/devel/buildd/
[03:20] <Kamion> daniels: xorg -41 uploaded, dropping libxtst* from debian/control
[03:20] <sivang> ogra: so much to read, so little time :-)
[03:21] <ogra> sivang, not really 
[03:21] <ogra> wanna-build
[03:21] <ogra>     a tool that helps coordinate package (re)building through a database that keeps a list of packages and their status. There is one central database per architecture that stores package states, versions, and some other information.
[03:21] <sivang> ogra: k, thx
[03:22] <ogra> indeed, if you want to step into the details....
[03:32] <Kamion> I: Base system installed successfully.
[03:32] <Kamion> hooray
[03:33] <hephey> shouldn't the fixed X be on uk.archive.ubuntu.com about now?
[03:36] <Kamion> hephey: no, it'll take a while longer
[03:37] <Kamion> hephey: (and do you really mean uk as in Ukraine?)
[03:37] <Kamion> hephey: I only just uploaded -41, which should (a) build and (b) not be rejected by the archive maintenance software
[03:37] <hephey> Kamion: no uk as in United Kingdom
[03:37] <Kamion> hephey: then you want gb.archive.ubuntu.com
[03:38] <hephey> Kamion: Uh, ok, *bonk*
[03:38] <Kamion> uk actually isn't the two-letter code for any country due to the United Kingdom / Ukraine confusion - my mistake above, Ukraine is ua.archive.ubuntu.com
[03:38] <Kamion> that said they're the same machines at the moment anyway
[03:39] <Amaranth> yeah, it seems like all of them point to archive.ubuntu.com
[03:39] <Amaranth> except for us and ca
[03:39] <hephey> Kamion: Ok, I'll wait patiently.
[03:39] <jbailey> Kamion: Hey.  Do you actually have access to a 3c509 card?
[03:40] <Kamion> jbailey: don't think so
[03:40] <maswan> Amaranth: and se
[03:40] <Kamion> Amaranth: and fr, and de
[03:40] <Kamion> at least
[03:40] <jbailey> Amaranth: Sweden
[03:40] <Amaranth> ah, that's right
[03:43] <Mithrandir> jbailey: I might have access to one.  Possibly, maybe.
[03:46] <ogra> Amaranth, WHAT ?
[03:47] <Amaranth> ogra: universe and X are the only problems
[03:47] <Amaranth> X is almost done
[03:47] <ogra> Amaranth, i dont think X is done yet...
[03:48] <sivang> Amaranth: didn't you see Keybuk little fight a 30 minutes ago?
[03:48] <Amaranth> nope
[03:48] <Amaranth> wasn't here
[03:48] <ogra> Kamion made it work for now, so we can have a colony, but i'm pretty sure daniels wont stop yet
[03:48] <sivang> ogra: the only thing in the way of X other then xlib-mesa transition ?
[03:48] <ogra> so the first upgrade after installing the colony could break everything again
[03:49] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Cool.  Colin was asking yesterday about detecting them with hotplug.
[03:49] <ogra> Amaranth, its safe to remove it if the preview is out...
[03:49] <Amaranth> ...
[03:49] <Amaranth> You really think breezy is going to ship on time if no one uses it until the preview?
[03:49] <ogra> Amaranth, nope, but i'd keep the warning where it is
[03:50] <Amaranth> btw, bugday was yesterday :P
[03:50] <ogra> i know, i ran it....
[03:50] <ogra> was very quiet but some got sorted
[03:50] <ogra> :P
[03:50] <jbailey> Amaranth: Once feature freeze hits, it's a little easier to recommend that people try it out - things shouldn't be shifting quite so madly underneath them.
[03:52] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Safe to assume you don't really have access to it until next week?
[03:52] <Amaranth> btw, does anyone here dual boot?
[03:52] <Amaranth> linux and windows, i mean :)
[03:54] <\sh> Amaranth: I did
[03:54] <Amaranth> i'm trying to figure out if i've found a bug or not
[03:54] <maswan> jbailey: one of these? Ethernet controller: 3Com Corporation 3c905B 100BaseTX [Cyclone]  (rev 30)
[03:55] <jbailey> maswan: Nope, but thanks.  The 905s are PCI cards, the 509 vortex cards are ISA.
[03:55] <maswan> ah, right. mixed up the numbers, as usual
[03:55] <jbailey> Yeah, I used to do it all the time when I was selling hardware.
[03:55] <jbailey> Luckily they were *both* crazy popular cards, so I could just take it back and hand the other one off the shelf. =)
[03:56] <maswan> :)
[03:57] <jbailey> seb128: Aren't you supposed to be off celebrating?
[03:57] <seb128> hey jbailey 
[03:57] <seb128> jbailey: kind of :p
[03:58] <jbailey> The fte national de Qubec is a huge street party.  I assumed that yours would be the same. =)
[04:00] <seb128> not really
[04:01] <seb128> usually we have party on the evening with some nice fireworks
[04:01] <lu|sleep> jbailey: they are all inside watching the Tour :)
[04:01] <seb128> and it's too hot today to hang outside :p
[04:01] <\sh> lu|sleep: oh u mean the "bike jump break legs tour"?
[04:05] <jbailey> seb128: Ah.  From what I remember from Qubec City two years ago, the drinking started about 4pm and by 7pm the streets were wall to wall people.
[04:05] <jbailey> And it more or less stayed that way sun up.
[04:05] <jbailey> +until
[04:07] <davyd> any idea what provides dh_netdeps?
[04:08] <ogra> cli-common
[04:08] <davyd> my version of cli-common doesn't
[04:08] <ogra> davyd, have you seen the cli policy on the wiki ?
[04:08] <davyd> ogra: no I haven't
[04:09] <ogra> its called dh_clideps now i think.... its a while ago since i compiled mono
[04:09] <davyd> ogra: ok, I have that
[04:10] <davyd> next question, is there documentation to port from one to the other?
[04:10] <ogra> davyd, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CLIPolicy
[04:11] <ogra> davyd, the breezy packages work over all arches... (they should at least)
[04:11] <davyd> ogra: I've backported the mono from breezy
[04:11] <davyd> the problem is dbus
[04:11] <ogra> davyd, i know... 
[04:11] <ogra> ah, dbus
[04:12] <ogra> yes, there you need to depend on the hoary -dev package.... dbus-sharp-dev or something like that
[04:12] <ogra> it was separated in hoary
[04:13] <davyd> ok, I appear to have a dbus package
[04:13] <Kamion> xorg -41 accepted for powerpc
[04:14] <ogra> davyd, i'm not sure how good the new mono works with the old dbus.... even if it compiles it will lack functionallity i guess
[04:15] <ogra> but try it :)
[04:15] <davyd> we'll see
[04:15] <davyd> I'm just installing the in-tree dependancies for tomboy at the moment
[04:16] <davyd> wait till I try to get gcc-4.0
[04:16] <KaiL> who has stolen the manpages from X packages?
[04:20] <davyd> hmm, I can't compile tomboy...
[04:20] <davyd> and I don't understand these errors
[04:24] <Mithrandir> jbailey: correct, no access until next week, and I'd need to rig up a whole system to get one working
[04:25] <jbailey> Mithrandir: If you could, that would be lovely.  I'm at OLS next week (so almost completely offline) so there's no rush right when you get back.
[04:26] <jbailey> But it looks like there *might* be some basic modalias support for isapnp.  If I can use it somehow, that would be sweet.
[04:26] <Mithrandir> jbailey: ok, I'll see what I can do then
[04:27] <daniels> Kamion: *cough*
[04:28] <Kamion> daniels: re xorg?
[04:28] <davyd> I home that building gcc-4.0 won't be this much pain
[04:29] <daniels> Kamion: yeah
[04:31] <mdeboer> can anyone explain how the "abi" stuff works in linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.12?
[04:35] <mdeboer> typically, after pushed the revision (dch -i) in the changelog, and i run dpkg-buildpackage, i get an Missing /mnt/hda6/src/linux-source-2.6.12-2.6.12/debian/abi/2.6.12-3.3/abiname file.
[04:35] <mdeboer> "Check for the previous kernel's abi file; now a requirement for builds!"
[04:36] <mdeboer> where do i get the 2.6.12-3.3 abi file?
[04:38] <Kamion> daniels: also, does the gnome-panel 2.11.5-0ubuntu1 build failure mean anything to you?
[04:38] <Kamion> /tmp/gnome-panel-2.11.5/./libpanel-applet/panel-applet.c:395: undefined reference to `XQueryTree'
[04:39] <Kamion> etc.
[04:41] <mdke> Seveas, ping a ling
[04:41] <daniels> Kamion: missing -lX11
[04:46] <Seveas> mdke, pong a long
[04:47] <mdke> Seveas, hi, i noticed a bit of to-and-fro ing on the NUN guidelines, so i made a /talk page so that people can put their opinions forward without amending that page. Did you see it?
[04:48] <Seveas> seen it now :)
[04:48] <Seveas> good idea
[04:49] <Kamion> hmm, it's just using pkg-config, what's wrong ...
[04:50] <Kamion> shouldn't something like gdk-x11-2.0.pc or gtk+-x11-2.0.pc be doing Requires: x11?
[04:51] <Mithrandir> possibly, but x11.pc is new&shiny.
[04:52] <surak> Is there a wiki describing what's broken with X and how we can help?
[04:52] <Kamion> surak: moving too fast for that
[04:53] <Kamion> xorg -41 accepted for i386/ia64 now
[04:53] <surak> The live's daily build stopped last week. Is this related?
[04:54] <Kamion> surak: yes
[04:54] <Kamion> surak: well, that's one reason. Another is that debootstrap breezy hasn't worked for about a week. I fixed that today.
[04:54] <Kamion> surak: the live filesystem builds are pretty brittle, it's easy for the distro to break them
[04:57] <lamont-away> Kamion: it's not so much that the process is brittle... it's that it depends  on the distro being installable... :)
[04:57] <surak> :-)
[04:57] <Kamion> lamont: well, right :)
[04:57] <surak> it looks like our own build process :-)
[04:58] <Darryl> Will it be possible to get Ruby updated in Hoary before the release of Breezy?
[04:58] <Kamion> lamont: (that's a brittle requirement, that's all - unavoidable, but ...)
[04:58] <lamont> Kamion: yeah
[04:58] <tseng> davyd: it is now
[04:59] <lamont> Darryl: if it meets criteria for hoary-security, hoary-updates, or hoary-backports, it could conceivably be uploaded to the appropriate one of those
[04:59] <lamont> Darryl: but hoary itself is _closed_.
[04:59] <lamont> Darryl: and, btw, that's a #ubuntu question
[05:00] <Darryl> Alright, thanks
[05:00] <surak> Kamion: help me understand the fix process. When you say xorg-41 was accepted for platform X, what happens? You source is merged with the build system and thus package is generated?
[05:00] <Kamion> given the version in hoary is apparently a prerelease, I wouldn't be opposed to having updated ruby in hoary-updates, if somebody did the work
[05:00] <Kamion> surak: buildd grabs source package, does dpkg-buildpackage, uploads result
[05:00] <Darryl> Kamion, yeah, that's the problem
[05:00] <Kamion> don't confuse matters by thinking of "merged"
[05:01] <surak> ok
[05:01] <Kamion> surak: "accepted" has the specific technical meaning that it's in the accepted queue on the machine "jackass" and will be installed into the archive proper within half an hour
[05:01] <Kamion> i.e. the buildd has uploaded it and it passed the archive maintenance system's automatic checks
[05:02] <surak> ok, thanks
[05:03] <surak> What happens then? What are those checks?
[05:04] <Kamion> surak: too many to describe
[05:04] <Kamion> sanity checks on the structure of the package
[05:05] <Kamion> and on the archive database
[05:05] <Kamion> every half an hour a process runs that installs packages from queue/accepted/ into the pool, which you can see on archive.ubuntu.com
[05:07] <ivoks> any1 else has problems with evolution? :/
[05:07] <surak> What kind of problem, ivoks?
[05:08] <ivoks> crashes on clicking forward
[05:08] <surak> is this happening with an specific message or with any message?
[05:08] <ivoks> any
[05:08] <surak> is your default to compose html messages?
[05:08] <ivoks> noo
[05:09] <ivoks> symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/evolution/2.4/components/libevolution-mail.so: undefined symbol: CAMEL_IS_MULTIPART
[05:10] <bob2> ouch
[05:10] <bob2> also, I can't eject an audio cd anymore
[05:11] <surak> ivoks: that's news for me. evolution 2.4 is only in breezy, isn't it? or is there a hoary one?
[05:12] <ivoks> surak: breezy, of course
[05:12] <surak> Kamion: when I find something strange in breezy, what's the best way to report it? Bugzilla/malone, here?
[05:12] <ivoks> bugzilla
[05:12] <ogra> or malone
[05:13] <ogra> depends on the component you report the bug for
[05:13] <ogra> malone = multi/universe
[05:13] <ivoks> surak: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=310330
[05:13] <surak> I got into #ubuntu to offer help on X, someone just told me "don't post bugs for breezy in bugzilla"
[05:13] <ivoks> ok, this is upstream
[05:13] <ogra> surak, thats wrong
[05:14] <tseng> dont post universe bugs in bugzilla
[05:14] <ogra> surak, main and restricted bugs go to bugzilla
[05:14] <ogra> even for breezy
[05:14] <ivoks> *verse goes to malone
[05:14] <surak> I know.
[05:15] <surak> He told me not to post any bugs for breezy at all - (trying to remember his/her nickname) - something like "it's breezy, the devs know about it already"
[05:15] <surak> I though strange.
[05:17] <surak> Another question: about string translations. I have three volunteers to help translate gnome 2.12 to pt-br. Should we do this on ubuntu or directly with gnome guys?
[05:17] <ivoks> surak: that was about that specific X problem
[05:17] <ivoks> poor daniels got stuffed with mail :)
[05:17] <surak> Probably - but someone who chooses to maintain X probably likes that :-)
[05:18] <surak> Several pt-br strings got lost from gnome 2.10 to 2.11
[05:19] <Amaranth> best to do it upstream i'd think
[05:19] <Amaranth> or in rosetta if it's in there
[05:21] <surak> There are some guys doing it for fedora already - would be duplicated effort. How do you publish this to gnome project? Say, if we translate it in rosetta faster than gnome cvs...
[05:22] <mdke> you can download the .pot file from rosetta and send it upstream
[05:22] <mdke> to the gnome maintainer for pt_br
[05:23] <surak> I'll put the guys working on it - there are several lost strings.
[05:25] <Kamion> surak: anything but here
[05:25] <Kamion> IRC's pretty awful as problem reporting media go ...
[05:36] <surak> Kamion: the -41 xlibs returns error code 1.
[05:36] <surak> when installing
[05:37] <siretart> surak: please report bugs in xorg via bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[05:38] <siretart> surak: there you can easily add more details about what exactly happened and what you suspect what went wrong
[05:38] <surak> yes. Just to let kamion know there's something wrong . The update just went to archive
[05:38] <siretart> surak: Im sure he already knows
[05:39] <surak> :-)
[05:39] <Amaranth> grr
[05:39] <Amaranth> it's clobberin time!
[05:39] <Amaranth> fscking spammers
[05:39] <Amaranth> ok, who is actually in #ubuntu?
[05:46] <Kamion> surak: 16:25 < Kamion> surak: anything but here
[05:47] <Amaranth> one more round then i'm rebooting
[05:47] <Amaranth> ping me if someone happens
[05:49] <tritium> Amaranth, bob2 and I
[05:51] <\sh> grmpf..updating X ,-)
[05:51] <\sh> brb
[05:55] <TerminX> hmm.. xlibs_6.8.2-41 is broken?
[05:56] <surak> TerminX: it looks so
[05:56] <surak> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12686
[05:57] <Kamion> I could try NEWing xkeyboard-config and see if that makes a difference ...
[05:57] <Kamion> daniels: ?
[05:58] <Kamion> daniels: you said something worrying about xkeyboard-config so I was holding off on NEWing it until you showed up
[06:16] <\sh> ok..once in a while a dpkg-configure xserver-xorg is ok :) but now, alt+strg+FN is not working anymore ;)
[06:38] <lamont> Kamion: sorry for all the noise hppa is causing in *-meta changelogs...
[06:38] <Kamion> ah well
[06:42] <lamont> it means I'm getting closer... :-)
[06:44] <TerminX> hmm.. what's with the dependencies on xserver-xorg?  what's the point of having all the drivers in separate packages if they're all just dependencies now anyway
[06:44] <TerminX> jp: did you get X working?
[06:45] <tsume> I'm still curious why the ubuntu kernel takes WAY longer than fedora to load 
[06:45] <jp> TerminX no dude, Im runnin hoary now :/ 
[06:45] <tsume> why Can't ubuntu have a small kernel like fedora?
[06:45] <TerminX> jp: oh, I had an answer for you like 2 minutes after you /quit yesterday
[06:46] <TerminX> all of the drivers are in separate packages now man, which as of the latest xserver-xorg package are all dependencies.. so you could've just apt-get installed three packages and had it working, or waited until the next version was uploaded, heh
[06:46] <jp> heheh thanks TerminX :)
[06:47] <TerminX> * jp (~jp@216-155-91-100.bk2-dsl.surnet.cl) has quit ("Lost terminal")
[06:47] <TerminX> * robitaille (~daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #ubuntu-devel
[06:47] <TerminX> TerminX: jp: you need to install some new packages
[06:47] <TerminX> TerminX: like xserver-xorg-input-mouse, xserver-xorg-input-kbd, and xserver-xorg-driver-sis
[06:47] <TerminX> bad timing
[06:47] <jp> I'll try it
[06:47] <TerminX> didn't notice you left before I said something
[06:47] <jp> ohh
[06:47] <jp> I saw some like these packages but not with my drivers :D
[06:47] <jp> hehehe thanks TerminX ;)
[06:47] <TerminX> yep
[06:47] <jp> I'll try it on another pc now!
[06:47] <jp> :D
[06:48] <carstenh> jbailey: ping
[06:48] <TerminX> jp: xlibs is currently broken though
[06:48] <TerminX> ;\
[06:48] <jp> oops :$
[06:49] <jp> well... I'll wait a bit TerminX :P
[06:49] <Kamion> TerminX: it's not possible to split them out into separate packages without having something to arrange for those packages to be pulled in on upgrades.
[06:49] <Kamion> TerminX: note that, if you want, it's possible to install just xserver-xorg-core, xserver-xorg-driver-$whatever, and xserver-xorg-input-$whatever.
[06:50] <TerminX> Kamion: I understand that, but shouldn't it be some other metapackage?
[06:51] <TerminX> and how can I not have xserver-xorg installed when it's the package that has the "Xorg" binary in it
[06:51] <Kamion> no, it should not be some other metapackage
[06:52] <Kamion> the Xorg binary should be moved to xserver-xorg-core, I think
[06:52] <Kamion> daniels: ^--
[06:52] <TerminX> there are a bunch of X modules in xserver-xorg as well
[06:52] <Kamion> yes, they should be moved to -core
[06:53] <Kamion> please file a bug
[06:53] <TerminX> wouldn't that in effect make xserver-xorg the theoretical metapackage? ;p
[06:53] <Kamion> yes, that's the intent
[06:53] <Kamion> furthermore another point of having the drivers in separate packages is so that ultimately they can be uploaded separately rather than in one giant blob
[06:54] <TerminX> that makes sense; I just don't want to have to have it all installed here if a) I don't need it and b) it can be avoided
[06:55] <Kamion> it will all continue to be installed as part of ubuntu-desktop
[06:55] <TerminX> I don't have that package installed, heh ;p
[06:56] <ogra> TerminX, you wont be able to upgrade cleanly without it... at least thats its main usecase
[06:56] <Kamion> ogra: please don't tell people that
[06:56] <TerminX> ogra: that sounds inaccurate
[06:56] <ogra> Kamion, why, if its true... how else do you change the changed dependencys and requirements ?
[06:57] <ogra> (between releases)
[06:57] <TerminX> apt-get dist-upgrade?
[06:57] <JanC> unfortunately ubuntu-desktop includes lots of things most people don't ever need  :-(
[06:57] <Kamion> ogra: if we add extra packages to the standard desktop, yes, ubuntu-desktop is needed to pull them in
[06:57] <JanC> that's why they uninstall it...
[06:57] <Kamion> ogra: but it is *required* that upgrades work (to a reasonable extent) without it!
[06:57] <ogra> Kamion, so its important to have it there on upgrades
[06:58] <ogra> Kamion, sure but what do you get then ? its not breezy, but a upgraded hoary...
[06:58] <Kamion> ogra: only if you want to ensure that any new desktop features are present. Your system *must* continue to work as well as it did before even if you don't have it installed; you might just not get new features.
[06:58] <Kamion> ogra: yes it is breezy. breezy is still breezy even if you don't have the desktop
[06:59] <TerminX> it's not breezy, but an upgraded hoary?  that's illogical to the point of not even making sense
[06:59] <Kamion> agreed
[06:59] <highvoltage> hi guys
[06:59] <ogra> Kamion, sure, but not working as intended... i had quite a lot supports between warty/hoary where lang packs were missing or breakage could easily be solved through -desktop installation
[06:59] <TerminX> damn, if I was to install ubuntu-desktop I would have to pull down 200 megs of packages
[07:00] <Kamion> ogra: language packs were a ghastly hack, package-wise ...
[07:00] <Kamion> ogra: and I think we should acknowledge that as an upgrade bug rather than just punting to the metapackages
[07:00] <Kamion> because people, in practice, do *not* reliably keep them installed
[07:00] <ogra> sadly, yes
[07:01] <Kamion> also, installing ubuntu-desktop doesn't give you language packs
[07:02] <ogra> and btw, do you know how many hoary systems run with broken warty fam out there
[07:02] <ogra> thus the "and" in the sentencs
[07:02] <ogra> sentence
[07:02] <Kamion> we have to support upgrades that do not involve ubuntu-desktop
[07:02] <Kamion> if they break, it's our bug, not the user's
[07:02] <Kamion> punting to the user is bad form
[07:03] <ogra> sure thats an alternative, but currently my wordin for upgraders is install ubuntu-desktop to be safe... since it is the safe option that generates less support...
[07:04] <ogra> even if it should be upgradeable all over...
[07:04] <Kamion> getting into the habit of saying "you have to install all this stuff you don't want in order to make upgrades work" will generate bad press for us in the long run
[07:04] <TerminX> ogra: it's the option that downloads 200 megs of stuff someone might not want or need
[07:04] <Kamion> frankly, I'd rather we had to deal with the support, because then we would have more motivation to fix the problems properly
[07:04] <JanC> ogra, the main reason (for me) to uninstall ubuntu-desktop was the fonts it "includes": I don't want 20 arabic fonts that I can't read at the top of my fonts list...
[07:05] <JanC> and I guess it's similar simple things for other people...
[07:05] <ogra> TerminX, it depends... i guess you dont use gnome and dont need the additional feauters... but explain it to my (your, somebodys) mother for example...
[07:05] <Kamion> in the long run I'd far prefer for the metapackages to go away and for apt to have more intelligence about task installation
[07:05] <Kamion> but this is a long-standing debate between mdz and me
[07:06] <TerminX> ogra: uh, I do use GNOME
[07:06] <ogra> TerminX, did you use warty before ? 
[07:06] <TerminX> yes
[07:06] <TerminX> and it was sid before that
[07:07] <ogra> TerminX, are you running fam or gamin below ? 
[07:07] <Kamion> Debian doesn't have this desktop metapackage nonsense to nearly the same extent, and upgrades have long been a feature of Debian
[07:07] <TerminX> gamin
[07:07] <ogra> TerminX, and where did you find out you have to use gamin now instead of fam ?
[07:07] <TerminX> how is this relevant in the slightest?
[07:08] <ogra> TerminX, simply because the vast majority doesnt know about fam or gamin... for the the meta package is important...
[07:08] <mdke> meta package ++
[07:08] <TerminX> a whole lot of packages depend on gamin
[07:08] <Kamion> libgnomevfs2-common Depends: libgamin0
[07:08] <TerminX> which conflicts with fam
[07:08] <Kamion> which Depends: gamin
[07:09] <TerminX> so the problem really sorts itself out
[07:09] <mdke> i did a warty -> hoary upgrade without the meta package and gamin didn't get pulled in
[07:09] <mdke> the meta package saved me
[07:09] <ogra> me too... on a tet system
[07:09] <ogra> test even
[07:09] <Kamion> that should have been reported, debugged, and fixed, rather than relying on the metapackage
[07:10] <bddebian> Hi
[07:11] <mdke> Kamion, sure. I guess i just like the idea that Ubuntu has a bunch of set base/desktop applications
[07:11] <Kamion> mdke: yes, that's a feature for many, certainly - but we need to get over this business of failing to support people properly who choose not to use it
[07:11] <Kamion> anyway, gotta run, night all
[07:11] <mdke> night
[07:11] <ogra> ciao Kamion 
[07:11] <TerminX> later Kamion 
[07:12] <ogra> TerminX, so, sorry for failing to support you right and taking the mass approach ;)
[07:16] <jdub> heh, X upgrade... 57 new packages ;-)
[07:16] <jdub> 57 is my favourite number
[07:16] <Surak_away> and a complete brokeup here :-)
[07:17] <jp> wuahah
[07:17] <jp> that's os much
[07:19] <\sh> jdub: can we reduce it to 42? *g*
[07:20] <jdub> :-)
[07:21] <\sh> anyways kdelibs4-dev is broken :(
[07:21] <Riddell> \sh: works fine for me
[07:21] <ogra> Riddell, broken on the buildd
[07:21] <\sh> riddell: let me update pbuilder again
[07:22] <\sh> ogra: no..broken locally here in my pbuilder...:(
[07:22] <ogra> look at the ggz-kde-client buildlog
[07:23] <\sh> nope..doesn't work
[07:24] <Riddell> ogra: yes, any ideas?
[07:24] <Riddell> ogra: ggz-kde-client is broken because of a lack of /usr/lib/libXrender.la
[07:25] <\sh> i had problems just now with xlibs_*-41_i386.deb
[07:25] <\sh> it doesn't want to install, cause of postinstall problems
[07:26] <ogra> Riddell, ah, silly me, i looked at the ppc builglog
[07:26] <ogra> http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/ggz-kde-client/0.0.7-2.1ubuntu1/ggz-kde-client_0.0.7-2.1ubuntu1_20050714-1548-powerpc-failed.gz
[07:27] <Riddell> ogra: yes, that's an X problem 
[07:27] <Riddell> which has been fixed on the other platforms today
[07:27] <ogra> yep
[07:27] <ogra> thats why i said silly :)
[07:30] <jesper> A quick question: Would it break Hoary to "dpkg -i <breezykernel>" on it? 
[07:31] <bddebian> Because Hoary != Breezy ?? :-)
[07:31] <ogra> jesper, it should leave the old kernel in place in any case if you dont take the linux metapackage... 
[07:31] <jesper> So there isn't anything "incompatible" in it .. I just need the QLogic FC-drivers. 
[07:33] <jesper> thanks
[07:33] <ogra> jesper, i dont think its a good idea, but trying it wont break it as long as the old kernel is in place to switch back
[07:39] <ajf> yay, we should use sulogin on init 1.
[07:40] <seth_k> the new kernel is still broken for me on k7
[07:40] <Surak_away> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/pt_BR is weird: The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
[07:40] <Surak_away> The proxy server could not handle the request GET/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/pt_BR. Reason: Error reading from remote server
[07:40] <Surak_away> (I don't use proxies, before someone tell me that)
[07:41] <Lathiat> yeh it breaks like that, saw that once before
[07:44] <mxpxpod> is there a quick fix to the xlibs install problem?
[07:46] <mxpxpod> bug #12686
[07:50] <lamont> daniels: ping
[07:53] <mxpxpod> or do I have to wait for a new build?
[07:53] <\sh> someone or something was removing my /etc/X11/xkb that's why it's failing...
[07:53] <\sh> (IMHO)
[07:54] <Surak_away> mxpxpod - I'll install the live from 7/7 again - tomorrow I'll try to break X again :-)
[07:54] <mxpxpod> Surak_away: huh?
[07:54] <\sh> and I think I will break my whole system just now...apt-get remove xlibs ,->
[07:55] <Surak_away> I'm using a installed breezy-live (with a installer from myself) - and did just what \sh is doing :-)
[07:55] <\sh> ok..i just fscked my system
[07:56] <Surak_away> it removed so much stuff that I gave up - will re-install it from scratch. Just waiting to finish my /home to another machine.
[07:57] <\sh> hmm...
[07:57] <\sh> Depends: gdm but it is not going to be installed
[07:57] <\sh> and more of it..for ubuntu-desktop
[08:08] <Surak_away> someone asked about evolution some hours ago... wasn't the upgrade from libcamel1.2-3 to 1.2-6 which caused that problem?
[08:08] <jesper> 6
[08:28] <ed1t> wow this channels dead 
[08:31] <highvoltage> ed1t: developers need rest too
[08:31] <ed1t> true
[08:31] <bddebian> ed1t: Don't listen to him, it's always dead. :-)
[08:31] <highvoltage> Why did the chicken cross the information super-highway? To get to the other site.
[08:32] <ed1t> lol
[08:33] <ed1t> i wanna help out with ubuntu projects...
[08:33] <seth_k> -motu is the place to be, they're the ones that need help
[08:34] <ed1t> well i said in there...no reply
[08:55] <jbailey> Kamion: around?
[08:59] <jp> jbailey hi :) how's going the bug :P
[08:59] <jp> hopefully it'll be fixed for october :)
[09:01] <jbailey> jp: This is the evo-exchnage one, yes?
[09:03] <jp> jbailey yep, pretty horrible :(
[09:17] <bandini> is -41 the fixed version of X?
[09:47] <Kamion> jbailey: briefly
[09:48] <Nafallo> nothing new on amd64 buildds? :-)
[09:48] <Nafallo> there is no fun running breezy without the daily breakage ;-)
[09:53] <lamont> Nafallo: nothing new that I know of 
[09:53] <lamont> Kamion: ping
[09:55] <Nafallo> lamont: they need elmo present to reboot them or what? :-)
[09:55] <lamont> at the very least, he's the one with console access.  physical presence may nor may not be required
[09:58] <weirdcreep> i want sex included in ubuntu brezzy
[09:59] <zanaga> sadly, that is something that is recommended outside of ones computer life..
[09:59] <lamont> weirdcreep: it's in universe, iirc
[09:59] <weirdcreep> lo
[10:00] <weirdcreep> so how is breezy going anyway
[10:01] <zanaga> has anyone else noticed that the latest totem(-gstreamer) crashes after a while in full screen, or is it just me?
[10:01] <zanaga> actually, it doesn't crash. it just exits
[10:03] <Kamion> lamont: yo
[10:04] <Lathiat> zanaga: well, i noticed it in mjy custom 1.1.3 package
[10:05] <zanaga> Lathiat: so it's not just me..
[10:06] <Lathiat> probably not
[10:06] <Lathiat> my totem wont work at all now
[10:07] <Lathiat> i downgraded bac kto the ubuntu package
[10:07] <zanaga> i'm just going through the upstream bugs to see if there are workarounds to this..
[10:07] <weirdcreep> why doesnt ubuntu come with icewm?
[10:07] <zanaga> it's a pain to debug because it really exits (with exit code 1)
[10:09] <Lathiat> zanaga: so break on exit :)
[10:09] <Lathiat> or write a oibrary with an exit functionj that assigns 0.08 to a functiojn pointer adn executes it and LD_PRELOAD it as exit()? :)
[10:10] <Lathiat> and i cant type
[10:10] <Lathiat> or write a library with 
[10:10] <Lathiat> an exit function that assigns 0x08 to a function pointer adn then executes it, and LD_PRELOAD it
[10:10] <Lathiat> is waht i meant to say :)
[10:14] <Panzerboy> hello guys
[10:14] <Panzerboy> just a quick question: where would be appropiate to ask questions about the packages from backports?
[10:19] <carstenh> weirdcreep: some kind of light ubunutu with icewm is planned iirc and it should be also in universe
[10:21] <weirdcreep> when?
[10:23] <carstenh> weirdcreep: http://mirror.ovh.net/ftp.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/i/icewm/
[10:23] <carstenh> weirdcreep: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LightweightDesktop
[10:24] <carstenh> weirdcreep: the latter should be finished in august
[10:24] <weirdcreep> ok danka
[10:24] <carstenh> weirdcreep: and be included in breezy
[10:25] <carstenh> weirdcreep: but i'm not really involved in this project, so maybe something i don't has changed...
[10:25] <carstenh> ... i don't know has changed
[10:25] <weirdcreep> ok hows head of that project\
[10:26] <carstenh> this project is a summer of code project and has a mentor and a student who implements all this
[10:26] <carstenh> the student is Vedran Ljubovic
[10:27] <weirdcreep> oh ok umm what cool stuff is comeing in breezy
[10:27] <carstenh> ich don't know who the mentor is
[10:27] <carstenh> yes, a eays to use firewall frontend is planned too :)
[10:29] <weirdcreep> carstenh whats ur main languag
[10:29] <carstenh> german
[10:29] <weirdcreep> i thought so
[10:29] <weirdcreep> u used ich
[10:29] <carstenh> why?
[10:29] <carstenh> hehe
[10:30] <carstenh> s/ich/I/ :)
[10:30] <weirdcreep> danka bitten
[10:30] <weirdcreep> snail
[10:30] <weirdcreep> langa
[10:30] <weirdcreep> hitler ist kaput
[10:30] <weirdcreep> null
[10:30] <weirdcreep> eins
[10:30] <weirdcreep> sex
[10:30] <carstenh> danke bitte
[10:30] <weirdcreep> u sure
[10:30] <weirdcreep> not danka bitten?
[10:31] <carstenh> snail and langa are not german words
[10:31] <carstenh> no danka bitten is wrong
[10:31] <weirdcreep> then were are they from
[10:31] <carstenh> yes, i am sure
[10:31] <weirdcreep> well i saw danka and bitten
[10:31] <weirdcreep> in a langauge program
[10:31] <carstenh> then your teacher has no clue about german?
[10:32] <weirdcreep> no it was a computer software
[10:32] <Lathiat> hmm
[10:32] <Lathiat> has xfce4 been considered for lightweightdesktop?
[10:32] <carstenh> then it is "kaputt" (with two ts)
[10:32] <weirdcreep> oh ok
[10:33] <carstenh> Lathiat: | The target platform for Ubuntu Lite is a 200 MHz Pentium with 64 megabytes of RAM 
[10:33] <Lathiat> i run xfce4 on my p133 with 32M of ram happily
[10:33] <Lathiat> well, ran
[10:33] <Lathiat> havent used it fo ra little while
[10:34] <carstenh> oh, i'm surpriced :)
[10:34] <Lathiat> but i dont suspect its gotten much heavier
[10:34] <Lathiat> just because its gtk2 based
[10:34] <Lathiat> it would seem a nicer fit
[10:34] <Lathiat> its also a very active oroject
[10:34] <Lathiat> icewm seems to have no had udpates in over 7 months
[10:34] <carstenh> but you have to talk to the people that are involved with this project
[10:34] <Lathiat> well
[10:34] <Lathiat> i dont know who to talk to
[10:35] <Lathiat> theres no contact information on the wiki page
[10:35] <carstenh> Vedran Ljubovic vljubovic smartnet ba
[10:35] <weirdcreep> was that german
[10:35] <carstenh> no, that was the mail-adress without the @ and the dot
[10:36] <weirdcreep> lol
[10:36] <weirdcreep> carstenh: does ur nick mean anything
[10:36] <Lathiat> .ba exists?
[10:36] <carstenh> Vedran Ljubovic <- name  mail -> vljubovic smartnet ba
[10:36] <carstenh> i guess
[10:36] <carstenh> weirdcreep: /whois carstenh
[10:36] <weirdcreep> ??
[10:37] <carstenh> weirdcreep: type this in your irc-client
[10:37] <bddebian> Sheesh
[10:37] <Lathiat> I also know theres a local co called "computer angels"
[10:37] <Lathiat> that recycle computers and put linux on and give to people
[10:37] <Lathiat> and they use xfce4 with rox
[10:37] <Lathiat> and they are all 200mhzish machines
[10:40] <Lathiat> hm
[10:40] <Lathiat> xorg updates
[10:40] <Lathiat> do i really want to update
[10:40] <Lathiat> might wait till daniels is around and had a chance to whinge or something
[10:40] <tsume> Lathiat: I could do that at the local Salvation Army ;)
[10:41] <Lathiat> tsume: :)
[10:41] <tsume> Lathiat: except I've been installing Fedora Core 4 on them
[10:41] <Lathiat> tsume: theres a few organizations like that in australia
[10:41] <Lathiat> they run a customized debian install
[10:41] <tsume> mainly because someone is blind in most distros I've seen because they won't install important things like Internet connection wizard etc 
[10:41] <Lathiat> http://www.computerangels.org.au
[10:42] <tsume> and I'm still curious why ubuntu's kenrel takes so fucking long to load at start compared to fedora's
[10:42] <tsume> fedoras takes like 3-6 dots.. ubuntu's about 30-40
[10:42] <weirdcreep> no wait ubuntu is a lot quicker then other distros
[10:42] <tsume> weirdcreep: actually no
[10:42] <tsume> weirdcreep: fedora starts up faster
[10:42] <weirdcreep> yes i have used slack
[10:42] <tsume> weirdcreep: I don't know whyy
[10:42] <weirdcreep> and vector
[10:42] <weirdcreep> and they all take longer
[10:43] <tsume> weirdcreep: then they are doing something wrong
[10:43] <tsume> why can't linux distros be friendly like bsds and just take code?
[10:43] <weirdcreep> slackware takes like years to load
[10:43] <tsume> theres nothing wrong with taking code from other projects, so it must be ego
[10:43] <weirdcreep> ???
[10:43] <Lathiat> ubuntu starts *very* fast
[10:43] <weirdcreep> yes it does
[10:43] <Lathiat> on the scale of startups
[10:44] <tsume> Lathiat: not compared to fedroa
[10:44] <Lathiat> tsume: bugger of it does
[10:44] <Lathiat> i was running fc4 on this last week
[10:44] <hunger> Lathiat: not compared to windows.
[10:44] <Lathiat> ubuntu definately starts faster
[10:44] <weirdcreep> i hate fedora
[10:44] <Lathiat> give your windows install to your mum and after a month, try that again
[10:44] <tsume> Lathiat: then you know how fast fedora starts much faster than ubuntu
[10:44] <Lathiat> hunger: also, ubuntu is fairly comparible to my windows startup
[10:45] <Lathiat> i should time them
[10:45] <weirdcreep> yes it is
[10:45] <Lathiat> anyway this if O-T
[10:45] <Lathiat> im goign to bed
[10:45] <tsume> Lathiat: I tmied the damn thing, Fedora starts 20 seconds faster
[10:45] <hunger> Lathiat: Win takes less than 15s for me (real startup, not suspend or so).
[10:45] <hunger> Lathiat: It does run less stuff, so this number is not really compareable though.
[10:45] <tsume> Lathiat: get a 4200rpm drive, and time it
[10:45] <tsume> Lathiat: you will see the difference
[10:45] <Lathiat> tsume: well, i have a 5400
[10:46] <tsume> Lathiat: no, get a 4200
[10:46] <tsume> its what I have on my laptop
[10:46] <Lathiat> gnome login would suck on a 4200
[10:46] <Lathiat> i can tell you that now :)
[10:46] <tsume> ubuntu's kernel takes about 30-40 dots
[10:46] <Lathiat> 30-40 dots?
[10:46] <tsume> fedoras takes about 3-6
[10:46] <weirdcreep> whats a dot
[10:46] <Lathiat> my kernel starts loading before i can blink
[10:46] <tsume> Lathiat: to initially load the kernel
[10:46] <Lathiat> what speed cpu?
[10:46] <tsume> 1.7 p-m
[10:47] <tsume> theres something wrong with ubunt
[10:47] <Lathiat> well on my 2.0 p-m with a 5400 rmpm drive, the kernel starts booting practically instantly
[10:47] <tsume> Lathiat: get a 4200 drive..
[10:47] <Lathiat> takes maybe 2-3 seconds tops after grub hands off
[10:47] <tsume> Lathiat: you'll notice a difference
[10:47] <Lathiat> tsume: how bout no
[10:47] <tsume> anyway, fedora is still faster on boot
[10:47] <tsume> I don't know why.
[10:48] <tsume> but it is
[10:48] <weirdcreep> i like lilo
[10:48] <Lathiat> thats nice
[10:48] <Lathiat> guys, this is off-topic
[10:48] <tsume> Lathiat: not really
[10:48] <tsume> Lathiat: its discussin ubuntu's boot time
[10:48] <Lathiat> it is, because your all just whinging and blahing, which isnt constructive
[10:48] <tsume> Lathiat: then help find the problem
[10:48] <Lathiat> I don't have a problem, so I can't find anything
[11:08] <jbailey> Do we regenerate the live CDs occasioanlly with hoary-updates?
[11:13] <lamont> no
[11:13] <lamont> or rather, not at this time
[11:14] <wasabi_> I suspect xhost and xrandr and friends are in NEW?
[11:14] <jbailey> lamont: thanks
[11:26] <hunger> Where did the xkb keymaps go?
[11:38] <mitsuhiko> uff
[11:41] <fEnIo> hello
[11:43] <fEnIo> could someone remind me what is an address with patches against Debian packages?
[11:45] <lifeless> people.ubuntu.com/~scott IIRC
[11:46] <fEnIo> yes that's it
[11:46] <fEnIo> thanks
[11:51] <fEnIo> ok that's question for @ubuntu, but please maybe someone will be some kind and tell me how to install ubuntu's mplayer on Debian using as more dependencies from sid/unstable as possible? ;)
[11:53] <mdke> fEnIo, sounds like a question for #debian, but good luck with that
[11:54] <fEnIo> most Debian users don't know what are the sources from Ubuntu :P
[11:58] <fEnIo> ok bye
[11:58] <fEnIo> thanks for help