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[01:16] <mdke> --> bed
[01:16] <mdke> night
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[07:26] <jsgotangco> hello
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[07:39] <jsgotangco> froud: shalom
[07:39] <froud> jsgotangco: bokker tov
[07:40] <froud> African Greetings
[07:40] <jsgotangco> isn't that single S
[07:40] <jsgotangco> i mean K
[07:40] <froud> yes
[07:41] <jsgotangco> mah nismah?
[07:41] <jsgotangco> hehe
[07:44] <sivang> shalom jsgotangco 
[07:44] <sivang> :-)
[07:44] <sivang> froud: ma kore?
[07:46] <froud> sivang: oved kashe
[07:46] <sivang> froud: aye aye aye, misken :-)
[07:46] <sivang> froud: al ma?
[07:47] <froud> sivang: ani katav techni as ani oved kashe bishvil ha likahot
[07:47] <froud> ma la sot
=== jsgotangco gets lost with all the hebrew being spoken :)
[07:49] <sivang> jsgotangco: stopped it :-)
[07:49] <sivang> froud: well, if you have lots of work, it's good - where there a work there's a living.
[07:50] <froud> yeah customers are demanding though
[07:50] <froud> everything comes at the last minute
[07:50] <froud> we need it yesterday
[07:50] <jeffsch> hey froud: from the scrollback -- <froud> something in the CSS I think I dont get the same problem here
[07:51] <jeffsch> any hints as to what I should look for in the gnome css?
[07:51] <froud> no I did not lok at it
[07:52] <jeffsch> ok. i will look into it on fri or sat
[07:55] <froud> k
[08:09] <jsgotangco> hey jeffsch im almost done with my styleguide section (international.xml) i'll commit the full draft later
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[09:24] <mdke> jsgotangco, did you look at the equivalent section on the gnome styleguide for international.xml? its good!
[09:24] <mdke> (morning all)
[09:26] <jsgotangco> mdke: of course
[09:29] <mdke> nice
[09:29] <mdke> i'm a big fan of copying stuff that's already been done well...
[09:29] <mdke> on the userguide I've been copying stuff from all over the place ;)
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[09:45] <jsgotangco> brb
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[12:51] <jsgotangco> see you guys later
[12:51] <jsgotangco> oh we have a meeting later btw
[12:51] <jsgotangco> see you then
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[02:12] <k31th> Yo!
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[05:50] <mdke> hi apokryphos, rob^, enrico 
[05:51] <rob^> hey
[05:51] <apokryphos> hi :)
[05:51] <rob^> meeting in about 6 hrs?
[05:51] <enrico> hi
[05:52] <apokryphos> mdke: any idea who the anti-ubuguide wiki fanatic is? ;-)
[05:52] <rob^> apokryphos, what are you refering to?
[05:53] <apokryphos> rob^: someone who keeps putting in that "All information on Ubuntuguide.org is present on the wiki in clearer and expanded form."
[05:53] <rob^> oh
[05:54] <rob^> well I guess they should be using the wiki before using ubuguide
[05:55] <apokryphos> Agreed. I'll be one of the first to echo the distress that people feel toward Ubuntuguide, but we shouldn't have to lie to get people to use the Wiki 8)
[05:55] <rob^> hehe
=== rob^ pats the faq guide
=== apokryphos sees kudos as the potential alternative; very helpful/understanding author
[05:57] <rob^> is there a link?
[05:57] <apokryphos> Heh, where's ubotu when you need him ;-). 
[05:57] <apokryphos> http://kudos.berlios.de
[05:58] <rob^> well seeing as the faq guide is profiled for both ubuntu and kubuntu, there is no reason why we couldnt add the info from KUDOS
[05:59] <apokryphos> Sure
[05:59] <rob^> as it is we dont have much kde stuff in they yet anyway
[05:59] <apokryphos> rob^: froud still the only dedicated kubuntu doccer?
[05:59] <rob^> I think so
[06:00] <apokryphos> Not doing any real KDE documentation at the moment, so I could probably help :)
[06:00] <rob^> I used to be a KDE doccer, but I haven't used KDE in a long time..
[06:00] <apokryphos> Did some Kubuntu documentation for Kynaptic, but had other complications in life then, so didn't do too much..
[06:01] <apokryphos> rob^: always time to come back to the light ;-)
[06:01] <rob^> heh
[06:01] <rob^> I like gnome too much..
[06:01] <apokryphos> :)
[06:02] <rob^> well its 2 am here, meetings at 8am.. 
[06:02] <rob^> I hope I get up :)
[06:03] <apokryphos> rob^: set KAlarm :P
=== apokryphos looks and finds that it exists
[06:03] <rob^> I have BABYalarm :)
[06:04] <rob^> works a treat
[06:04] <apokryphos> cool
[06:04] <rob^> I didnt think there was a noise more annoying then an alarm clock, until I had kids
[06:05] <rob^> just having a squiz at kudos, there is some good general stuff in there we could use
[06:05] <apokryphos> rob^: yeah, definitely. The guy has very ambitious plans for it
[06:05] <rob^> what like?
[06:06] <apokryphos> rob^: unfortunately he's not doing anything for a few weeks because of very serious events in his life :(
[06:06] <apokryphos> rob^: full explanations on all the answers, buildscripts for many things etc. etc.
[06:06] <rob^> why does he not just contribute to the docteam with it?
[06:06] <apokryphos> rob^: bigger plans, I guess :)
[06:07] <rob^> its GFDL anyway
[06:08] <apokryphos> > The thing is, my ultimate focus is on helping with the propagation of Linux among the grand masses. Kubuntu is not an end itself, but a means I've chosen as the platform for this goal. As such, I want to provide an answer for the skill and interest scope of the grand masses (i.e. for people who needs almost every desktop functionality with next to no under-the-hood knowledge). IIRC there are more than 700 million desktop users (accordin
[06:08] <apokryphos> prepare a solution that, together with Kubuntu, would appeal to at least 100M of them so much so that they would possibly consider switching from Windows to Linux. Even if I can't succeed, may be I can serve as a "proof of concept" so that more capable ones develop really good solutions for the grand masses.
[06:08] <apokryphos> Heh, pretty long it looks there... that's a quote
[06:10] <rob^> yeah
[06:11] <rob^> but like I said, why not get it included in some form or other in the official documentation?
[06:11] <rob^> hes not making money off it.
[06:12] <apokryphos> rob^: I don't think that's an issue for him
[06:13] <rob^> yeah thats right
[06:13] <rob^> ah it doesnt matter
[06:15] <rob^> I had better get some sleep.
[06:15] <rob^> night
[06:16] <apokryphos> 'night
[06:18] <froud> apokryphos: if you would like to contribute to Kubuntu-docs start here http://lnix/~froud
[06:19] <apokryphos> froud: unknown host 
[06:20] <froud> http://lnix.net/~froud/
[06:20] <froud> kubuntu-docs-5.10-0.X_all is uploaded to nightly build system once a week
[06:21] <froud> I update the web site whenever there are changes in the src
[06:21] <froud> gen 1 a day
[06:23] <apokryphos> froud: wow, a lot of great stuff there
[06:24] <apokryphos> froud: why isn't that stuff on kubuntu.org?
[06:31] <apokryphos> Seems like a shame actually that we have two people both writing such similar stuff and not working together; lot of stuff mentioned in both docs
[06:32] <mdke> hi all
[06:32] <mdke> apokryphos, i made a /talk page for discussions of that page on the wiki
[06:33] <apokryphos> mdke: yeah, dropped a comment instead of going round in circles
[06:33] <froud> It will be in time
[06:34] <mdke> apokryphos, cool
[06:34] <apokryphos> froud: any part you'd recommend me look at/take-a-wack-at-writing-for specifically? :)
[06:35] <froud> no there is so much anyone can do, see the K User Guide status report
[06:35] <froud> Attention should go on the Kuserguide
[06:36] <apokryphos> froud: what's the methodology with i.e. documentation on kicker or other apps etc? Written to supplement the KDE Docs?
[06:38] <froud> apokryphos: good question. http://lnix.net/~froud/kuserguide/C/pr01s05.html
[06:38] <apokryphos> or a briefer overview?
=== apokryphos looks
[06:38] <mdke> apokryphos, by the way you may be able to talk to Seveas about the NewUsersNetworkGuidelines page, I believe he is involved in the project
[06:39] <apokryphos> mdke: heh, yeah, I know he's a strong aficionado of anti-ubuntuguidism
[06:40] <mdke> i don't know about that
[06:40] <apokryphos> I just recall him being among the first telling people not to use it. I think he contacted the author himself; not entirely sure.
[06:41] <apokryphos> froud: so the aim is to be Kubuntu based, right?
[06:41] <mdke> apokryphos, i don't want to get into that discussion (OT) but I was just pointing you to him because he is involved with the NewUsersNetwork project
[06:41] <froud> yes
[06:41] <apokryphos> froud: kubuntu-default-settings doesn't alter KDE that much, so there wouldn't be too much to write on just that..
[06:41] <apokryphos> mdke: sure, thanks.
[06:42] <froud> kde-settings changes much
[06:43] <apokryphos> froud: breezy? 
[06:43] <apokryphos> I actually think it would be a bad idea to deviate too much from KDE itself...
[06:43] <froud> yes see http://lnix.net/~froud/kquickguide/C/ch03s07.html
[06:43] <apokryphos> people come to Kubuntu because it attempts to be *the* KDe distro
=== froud just writes it :-)
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[06:45] <apokryphos> froud: that would change kcontrol a lot clearly, but not so much kate/kicker etc. 
[06:45] <apokryphos> froud: sorry, I don't mean to press, just wandering here
[06:45] <venda> no good questions
[06:45] <mdke> heh
[06:45] <venda> very good
[06:45] <jjesse> looking at the screen shots i like the system settings a lot better then kcontrol settings
[06:46] <apokryphos> looks a lot like a few suggestions that have been put forward on kdelook
[06:46] <venda> apokryphos: see http://www.lnix.net/~froud/#devnotes
[06:47] <venda> apokryphos: can't say they are definitive, but I have tried to gather from Riddell what will be changing
[06:47] <venda> kicker etc remains much the same
[06:47] <venda> perhaps a system menu
[06:47] <apokryphos> venda: cool, thanks -- a little there, that's good :)
[06:48] <venda> apokryphos: venda = froud
[06:48] <apokryphos> Is there no estimated time for release for Kapture? Are we gonna have time to go that way? :P
[06:48] <venda> apokryphos: no idea
[06:48] <apokryphos> venda: oh; thought there were two kubuntu doccers for a sec ;-)
[06:48] <venda> I have not heard any news
[06:48] <venda> I comment in the status reports
[06:49] <apokryphos> right
[06:49] <venda> things not sure of or know will change etc
[06:49] <venda> much in kubuntu is in flux
[06:49] <apokryphos> venda: I think I'll read a bit more to pick up the style then maybe go for some stuff on the ug
[06:49] <apokryphos> venda: it's worth noting that my docbook skills are a little primitive, so you may have to bear with me a little at first =)
[06:49] <venda> sure, ideas etc all welcome
[06:50] <venda> no worries
[06:50] <apokryphos> I'll likely start later on today, thanks! :) 
=== apokryphos is off for food now
[06:50] <venda> if you can checkout from svn, hack, patch it will be good
=== venda feels hunger pains too
[06:51] <apokryphos> venda: have some generla knowledge with svn, yup. I'll read up if I can't do any, no problem.
[06:51] <venda> k
[06:51] <mdke> apokryphos, there is a cool step by step guide on the wiki in the Docteam area
[06:52] <mdke> actually
[06:52] <mdke> where the hell is it
[06:52] <venda> apokryphos: while writing, take into consideration that we have a drop of upstream in the repos
[06:52] <venda> this means we can make selective use of docs from KDE
[06:52] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamStepByStepRepository
[06:53] <mdke> ah there it is
=== apokryphos bookmarks
[06:53] <venda> pls bring back for the hasty to the home page of the docteam
[06:54] <jjesse> quick question, i'm reloading kubuntu on my laptop this weekend, do i stay with hoary release or go to breezy?
[06:54] <jjesse> i know that was off topic
[06:55] <venda> jjesse: stay hoary and update to kde 3.4.1
[06:55] <jjesse> venda thanks will do
[06:55] <venda> deb http://kubuntu.org/hoary-kde341 hoary-updates main
[06:56] <venda> breezy is wonky right now
[06:56] <venda> better use it under qemu
[06:56] <venda> one minute stuff works and next is does not
=== venda goes in search of food
=== mgalvin is eating while reading review ;)
[07:29] <mgalvin> has there been any word on commit access for rob^, myself, and the others who have been submitting patches lately
[07:30] <venda> I did ping mdz
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[08:31] <abelli> ciao
[08:35] <mdke> ciao abelli 
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[12:03] <rob^> the meeting is at 2200z right?
[12:03] <judax> I was just going to ask that, I have 2203UTC
[12:03] <rob^> ditto
[12:04] <judax> mdke: ping
[12:04] <mdke> argh
[12:04] <mdke> good point
[12:04] <rob^> :)
[12:04] <judax> hehe
[12:05] <rob^> o.O