[12:21] when i updated a universe package to compile with gcc 4.0 (no c++ problem, it's a plain c program) shall I create a bugreport at bugzilla or launchpad with the debdiff? [12:24] SloMoSnail : afaik, if it's universe, and no cxxtransition... should go to revu [12:24] but don't trust me :) [12:25] i agree -> revu, but don't trust me either ;) [12:27] well, ogra said this morning that transitions don't go to revu and cxxtransition goes to bugzilla ;) but what about this? [12:27] yes, transitions go to bugzilla [12:28] but afaiu that is not a transition [12:28] I mean, the wiki only talks about cxxtransition, and motuglutransition === uniq [~frode@213.184.199.55] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:28] SloMoSnail: what changes were needed? === DanielN is now known as DanielN`aw [12:30] Lathiat : did you solve the pbuilder problem ? [12:30] comadreja: yeh i got someone elses base.tgz :) [12:30] damn [12:30] they've gotta solve that asap [12:31] Lathiat: just a one-liner... a missing semicolon ;) siretat said i should make a bugreport for that but he didn't say where... [12:31] yeh [12:31] SloMoSnail: malone [12:31] i assume [12:31] Lathiat: feel free to point other people at that base.tgz if they need it; i have bandwidth to burn [12:31] ogra: ping? [12:31] seth_k: I need it [12:31] seth_k: ok [12:32] comadreja: http://sethkinast.com/ubuntu/breezy/ [12:32] thanks :) [12:32] not a problem :D [12:41] good night ! [12:42] nite :) [12:49] where would I find (online) a list of all ubuntu packages? [12:49] (that may be a stupid question) [12:50] nm: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/components [12:51] nope, that's not it [12:51] packages.ubuntu.com [12:51] thanx [12:51] not a list, but you can look them up there [12:51] hey, another familiar person [12:51] ajmitch: hi :) [12:51] or you could just grab the Packages.bz2 off the mirror [12:51] hi :) [12:52] a lot of gnue ppl here it seems [12:52] apt-cache pkgnames [12:52] ok, LTSP *is* included in ubutu [12:53] ubuntu [12:53] dredg: I needed an online/web listing [12:53] havoc: yes, it's actually being developed on ubuntu now, iirc [12:53] schweeb: ah, cool [12:53] havoc: sure, I maintain the gnue packages for debian/ubuntu :) === terrex [~terrex@84-122-73-155.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:54] I'm putting together a report for a client for a 'linux office' in which I'm going to recommend LTSP on ubuntu [12:54] I haven't heard much from the local LTSP guy lately... but I'm pretty sure that was the plan... Jim was his name I believe [12:54] or standalone ubuntu [12:54] ajmitch probably met him [12:54] yeah [12:54] but there's still much I'm trying to learn about both [12:54] I don't think I talked to him much [12:55] whiprush usually does [12:55] but whip was probably busy humping some GNOME guys' legs [12:55] haha [12:55] posibbly OT, but can LTSP thin-clients handle local USB/serial/parallel/firewire and audio connections? [12:55] audio yes... parallel, I believe so [12:56] USB/serial/firewire not so sure [12:56] I'd assume it would have to somehow [12:56] if it's not supported, it's in the works [12:56] well... [12:56] problem is [12:56] I asked in #ltsp and am waiting [12:56] ...patiently [12:56] USB devices would have to be shared back to the LTSP server via SAMBA [12:56] or NFS [12:56] ah [12:56] afaik [12:57] basically I was contracted to write this report/proposal, and if it's accepted I will also be charged with designing/building everything [12:58] cuz apparently I'm the only person my client knows who's capable of doing research and RTFM :) [12:58] what sort of usb/firewire/etc things did you need? [12:58] which is a good thing since it pays my mortgage [12:58] ajmitch: nothing specific, I just need to know what all the capabilities of LTSP are [12:58] right [12:59] e.g. can an office worker hook up their USB key/drive or MP3 player to their thin-client workstation? [12:59] *I* will get asked questions like that by my client's clients, and I'd like to have an answer one way or the other [01:01] I need to offer 2 possible configurations, standalone workstations, and thin-clients [01:01] gn8 [01:01] (or a combination) [01:01] I fgure ubuntu is a good choice in all cases [01:01] figure === ajmitch wonders how broken his X will be after upgrading [01:02] looks like some people have done work on supporting local usb sticks, etc [01:02] just need to beef up my "objective" arguments for ubuntu vs. FC, and more specifically Debian [01:03] so far I have "Consistent, reliable release schedule" and "Available commercial support" [01:03] the ubuntu vs debian controversy :) [01:04] ajmitch: I personally could care less about "Holy wars", but I do need to provide some arguments [01:04] since these people are mostly debian users [01:04] it's not a holy war by any means [01:04] also, they are not likely to go for RHEL due to cost, their clients may ask about it [01:05] ajmitch: ah [01:05] but the support & reliable release schedule is defeinitely important for businesses [01:05] to me distros/editors/languages are nothing more than "tools" [01:05] especially with the 5-year support by the ubuntu foundation recently announced for 6.04 [01:05] as long as they do what I need them to do I'm happy [01:06] havoc: even with full out clients, users could still connect to the LTSP server using XDMCP and such [01:06] ajmitch: specifics? [01:06] schweeb: yeah [01:06] http://www.ubuntulinux.org/UbuntuFoundation [01:06] mainly directed at servers [01:06] which is where you're possibly looking [01:07] ajmitch: ah, you mean maintenance on the distro, not 'user support' [01:07] havoc: yes, I'm guessing that user support would still be 18-months for main [01:07] ajmitch: and paid, right? === ajmitch shrugs [01:08] that's a detail for later in the report anyway [01:08] I'm not entirely clear on the support structure === ajmitch will ask jeff at some point [01:08] I'd much rather be building a house than doing this :( [01:08] heh, jbailey? [01:09] that jeff? [01:09] havoc: remember that packages in universe get security & critical bugfixes on a best-effort basis at the moment [01:09] yep [01:09] ok [01:09] I was talking with him earlier [01:09] I've been picking everyones' brains quite a bit in the past 48hrs. or so [01:10] heh [01:10] anyone have enemy territory mirror? [01:10] I think jeff knows the most about support [01:10] it's 'research' :) [01:10] i am capped at 50k [01:11] I've got like 50 web browsers open right now and am on a ton of channels [01:11] and what attracted you to the motu channel of all places? [01:11] and have been trying to help chillywilly with some routing issues [01:12] ajmitch: I hate 'user' channels; I don't need to know *how* to do things, I need to know how things *work* [01:12] :) [01:12] i.e. how is the distro produced/maintained [01:12] read as much as you can on the wiki [01:12] I can RTFM to figure out how to do things (most of the time) [01:12] :) [01:12] developers are an expensive resources [01:12] well we get work dumped on us (eg moving to g++ 4.0), and go out & do it [01:13] well you may end up with some more help if I get this contract [01:13] and sometimes we get to do our own thing [01:13] great [01:13] contract/ [01:14] I've got a ton of disparate machines I maintain right now that I'll be slowly migrating to ubuntu over the next year (thanx to chillywilly) [01:14] i see. [01:14] running various distros [01:14] at which point I will have a vested interest in ubuntu [01:15] I'm actually setting up 2 1.2TB RAID5 machines this week that I'm planning on doing with ubuntu [01:15] got the drives today [01:15] 3.2TB of disk space currently in my possession :) [01:16] 8 400GB Seagate Baracudas === uniq [~frode@213.184.199.55] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:16] nice === sistpoty is in need of some sleep [01:17] gn8 all [01:17] $2144 from newegg [01:17] night === sistpoty [~stefan@DSL01.212.114.238.254.NEFkom.net] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [01:18] they are actually going to be fileservers for a mac network running netatalk [01:18] the current machine is runnging a very old version of mandrake [01:20] ajmitch: Oy? [01:20] jbailey: hi [01:20] havoc: Heya [01:23] so what kind of help does ubuntu typically need? === terrex [~terrex@84-122-73-155.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:25] hi jbailey === Gazer is back (gone 65:44:17) [01:26] havoc: the MOTUs in particular need packaging help to maintain universe [01:26] we have a constant stream of work === AndyFitz [~andy@220-245-97-227-qld-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:27] ajmitch: so taking releases from app developers and ubuntu/apt-ifying them? [01:27] eg wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo [01:27] havoc: that, and fixing up the existing packages [01:28] right [01:28] eg when we moved to gcc/g++ 4.0, all the c++ libraries had to be renamed, many patched [01:28] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps [01:29] regarding that, race compiles with pbuilder [01:29] should it be rebuilt ? [01:29] or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUGLUTransition [01:29] and how do I request a rebuild ? [01:30] we upload a package with a build1 suffix [01:30] eg race 1.2-3 becomes 1.2-3buil1 [01:30] to revu ? [01:31] if it's only a changelog entry, then it's not needed [01:31] since there's nothing to review :) [01:31] I think just put it on a list of packages to be rebuilt [01:31] but I have no upload privileges , I can only upload to revu [01:31] where's that list ? [01:34] make a note on MOTUGLUTransition - if it really doesn't need the build-deps changed [01:35] ok [01:39] it has clanlib-dev in the build-deps, that should be libclanlib-dev , right ? === GheRivero [~ghe@81.172.88.55] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:39] libclanlib-dev provides clanlib-dev [01:40] oops [01:40] but since it's virtual, I think it can be changed [01:40] where do you see all that ? [01:41] race_0.7.0-10build1 this version is then... 0.7.0-10ubuntu1 ? === ajmitch cannot recall if that is in policy that you must have 'virtual | real' [01:42] yes, since you're making changes [01:44] one funny question (for me): if it were 0.7.0-10ubuntu1 and needed a rebuild, how would it be called ? [01:45] clean way would be -10ubuntu2, not sure if they'd go for that though :) [01:46] :) [01:50] the debian policy manual doesn't say anything about virtual packages on build-depends [01:51] oh, yes [01:52] seems that the virtualpackage is prefered, but I don't know if in this case it is because a transition === jamessan|laptop [~jamessan@c-24-218-220-129.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Surak [~Surak@201009097046.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Surak [~Surak@201009097046.user.veloxzone.com.br] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === rob^ [~rob@rob-ubuntu.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-motu === AndyFitz [~andy@220-245-97-227-qld-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === bddebian [~bddebian@pcp08717033pcs.phnixv01.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bddebian [~bddebian@pcp08717033pcs.phnixv01.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === StoneTable [~stone@c-67-184-135-68.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === poningru [~poningru@pool-71-101-70-231.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === StoneTable [~stone@c-67-184-135-68.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jamessan [~jamessan@c-24-218-220-129.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:05] Lathiat : ping === robitaille [~daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === StoneTable [~stone@c-67-184-135-68.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === tritium [~tritium@12-208-96-155.client.insightBB.com] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [04:45] tseng: around? [04:45] no [04:45] heh [04:46] the muine scrobbler plugin still stuck in new? [04:46] it was never in new [04:46] oh [04:46] thought you packaged it. [04:46] i did [04:46] but, muine is still randomly crashing [04:46] and my motivation is vanished [04:47] oh oh [04:47] yay for gtk-sharp2 api instability [04:47] elmo is in charge of syncs with debian, right? [04:47] heh [04:47] StoneTable: yes [04:47] thanks === schweeb sets tseng on fire again === tseng sets schweeb on dead [04:49] burn mono boy! burn! [04:49] detroit what [04:49] :p [04:50] whiprush: heh, I haven't used that Hula at all yet [04:50] I can make you an account. Not from home yet though [04:50] whiprush: make me one [04:50] whiprush: kthx [04:50] tseng: right. [04:50] is it with the new interface crack? [04:51] it's kind of ironic, using imap4 in evolution doesn't work with hula's imap at all. [04:51] blargh [04:51] it's the original interface, the new uber stuff gasman was talking about on lugradio isn't checked in yet. === tseng configures his "borrowed" cisco router and switch [04:51] and pix === schweeb owns a 2500 [04:52] a PIX would be nice [04:52] tseng: I haven't been keeping up on the mono list, 1.2 for breezy doable? [04:52] no [04:52] they are fucking me [04:52] dang. [04:52] take your fucking like a woman, and pkg 1.2 for breezy, bitch [04:53] yeah, right [04:53] after release [04:53] otherwise someone will make a *gasp* backport [04:53] that someone will be in violation of very clear rules regarding official backport and quickly correct it [04:54] heh [04:54] or alternatively be flamed on a daily basis [04:54] so you'll ship a 1.1.x? No 1.0.x I hope? [04:54] 1.1.x [04:54] things might start being demoted soon [04:54] fspot, tomboy, and beagle. that's all we need. [04:54] not in main you dont [04:54] it makes no difference to me at this point [04:55] I cant "support" monodevelop as is [04:55] will any of it be in main? [04:55] so the whole thing might as well be demoted [04:55] nothing [04:55] :( [04:55] has MD even released lately? [04:55] yes === Jogariga [~gabriel82@adsl-146-49-31.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:55] why would monodevelop make any difference? it's not part of the base mono distribution, is it? [04:56] eh [04:56] ok, the key rationale for mono in main is MD and beagle [04:56] hi guys. I have read a good deal of info on packaging [04:56] beagle isnt ready [04:56] and md depends on gtk-sharp2, which is basically unsupportable [04:56] and i would like to see if you guys could help me with some guidance [04:56] bleh [04:56] Jogariga: yes? [04:56] beagle tops out at about 48 hours for me, then it gets all "I want all your memory." [04:57] one would think the point of having mono in main is so mono apps would be supported [04:57] yeah, what apps [04:57] even if all apps are in universe [04:57] whiprush: takes about 10 minutes to do that to me [04:57] i cant put any of them in main [04:57] whiprush: although last time I tried was 0.0.10 or so [04:57] meh, what difference does it make at that point [04:57] at least people would have mono oob [04:57] ajmitch: .11 was an improvement, haven't tried .12 yet [04:57] just puts a burden on me to support bugs after release [04:57] and be able to download/apt-get their own shit [04:57] either way ... we're out of time. [04:58] tseng: what should i do next to start maintaining a package [04:58] universe is fine [04:58] Jogariga: erm [04:58] Jogariga: pick a package. [04:58] you are weak, tseng [04:58] fix a bug, upload your source to revu ( see topic ) [04:58] schweeb: YOU ARE A GIRL [04:58] <3 [04:58] tseng: where can i check to see if it is already on ubuntu? [04:58] Jogariga: packages.ubuntu.com [04:59] tseng: I suppose breezy+1 will be your sweet spot then. :-/ [04:59] tseng: ok [04:59] whiprush: damn right, ill be busting heads [04:59] tseng: do you know if there's a list of packages that need to be maintained on ubuntu and nobody is doing it [05:00] Jogariga: there are thousands [05:00] It's unfortunate, I wanted to see fspot replace gthumb for breezy. [05:00] Jogariga: take a wild guess and ill tell you [05:00] would have been nice [05:00] whiprush: meh. [05:00] you can apt-get it [05:00] no big loss [05:01] tseng: ok i'll start looking [05:01] tseng: just ship it before NLD10. :p Or I kill you. [05:01] tseng: thanks for your help [05:01] Jogariga: nps. ignore these other nutjobs [05:01] whiprush: NLD, that doesnt count as a distro [05:01] tseng: what nutjobs? [05:01] Jogariga: schweeb. [05:02] tseng: ok lol [05:03] Jogariga: ignore tseng, he's a slut [05:03] too weak willed to put mono in main... [05:04] tseng: don't worry dude, I still fanboi you dude. [05:04] whiprush: rock on. === whiprush lies. === schweeb humps tseng's leg [05:04] well, at least inotify is upstream now, one less thing. === tseng mummbles something about gmime [05:13] tseng: are you familiar with this libbeagle thing? [05:13] and how it relates to "nautilus integration"? [05:14] uh [05:14] not so much [05:14] but the idea for nautilus is vfolders based on searches [05:14] also, you're due to blog. :) [05:14] i am [05:14] but ive got nothing. [05:14] sorry [05:14] how about a mono update? [05:14] it would be too angry [05:14] lol [05:15] I could blog a recent CD [05:15] but that doesnt interest many people [05:17] that's pretty much why I don't bother blogging === susus [~sz@p5089F71C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:18] no one wants to read my drivel about practising or music [05:18] eh [05:18] anything I'd blog wouldn't be of interest to people reading planet ubuntu === ogra [~ogra@p5089F71C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:18] so I'm not on there [05:18] 419 unique vistors to my site this month [05:18] and i havent made a single new post [05:18] i guess they are all hoping for something [05:18] plus I'm supar-emo and that's the new pink!@ [05:18] crimsun: ... [05:18] i just died inside [05:18] (sorry) [05:20] yeah dude, really. [05:21] hxc4life [05:21] whiprush brings the metal === whiprush puts on some linkin park for crimsun. [05:21] whiprush: did you dig the Beloved? [05:21] yeah, I dug it [05:22] that Bachman Turner stuff is cool though [05:22] indeed [05:22] I have no idea what "emo" is. People are polemic about it, though. It's either the greatest thing or it blows chunks. [05:22] did you get The Black Dahlia Murder? [05:23] tseng: usually on thursdays I cast a metal show for ars, but it's down at the moment. :-/ [05:23] nope [05:23] crimsun: ok, take a decent modern "punk" band [05:23] crimsun: slow it down and subtract talent and rawness [05:23] crimsun: and add a singer who whines like a girl [05:23] recipe for emo [05:23] pretty grim [05:24] http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Emo [05:24] if you are really massochistic [05:24] you can let the whiney frontman try to do hardcore vocals [05:24] w/o any form of transition [05:25] ok now I feel really old [05:25] but the fashion stuff they have on there applies to hardcore kids too [05:25] so i cant make too much fun [05:47] what's the most comprehensive guide to packaging programs? [05:48] Jogariga: Debian New Maintainer's Guide [05:48] tseng: masochistic, you barbarian [05:49] schweeb: ok thanks [06:09] can someone help me with figuring out the libs i need for a package? === Amaranth [amaranth@ip68-225-172-54.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jamessan|laptop [~jamessan@c-24-218-220-129.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === SloMo_ [~slomo@p5487B9D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jsgotangco [~jgotangco@202.57.71.236] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:28] hi === niran [~niran@cpe-67-10-213-51.houston.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Panzerboy [~NoName@panzerboy.user] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:43] does anyone know any details about how the official backports are going to work? === Gazer is away: zZzzzZzZ [07:43] i.e., is it going to be a separate repo like it is now, or another section of the normal repositories like universe [07:45] morning folks === sivang is in for some work on the xlib-mesa transition [07:45] Where can I find a list of packages already fixed so I won't redo work? [07:57] MOTUGLUTransition? [07:58] sivang: yeh, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUGLUTransition [07:58] sivang: if your working on something, just put the appropriate comment on the right package [07:58] Lathiat: ok, thanks [07:59] Lathiat: you also helping on that? [07:59] sivang: yep [07:59] ive tried to mark off all other things affecting those packages as i could find [07:59] probably missed some tho [07:59] Lathiat: sooner or later, somebody would hit them and we'll know it :-) [08:00] just thought i'd save people some time :) [08:00] like the sdl ones are useless until its fixed cus you cant build them [08:00] this is a great chance to try the games out ;) [08:01] haha, i can find me some good games [08:03] Lathiat: hehe [08:03] Lathiat: anyway, that's a very nice list there, nice to see it's all arranged [08:04] Lathiat: will make working easier [08:04] yep :) [08:04] btw, sirestart suggested to use dctrl something to find the need fixing packages (I have the line on my logs) [08:04] the snippet on that wiki page is better? [08:05] umm [08:05] dunno [08:05] thats just my own hackery [08:05] dont know hwo to use dctrl :P) [08:05] s/P// [08:05] Lathiat: neither do i :-) [08:06] yhm [08:06] if a package just needs a rebuild [08:06] what do i do [08:06] put 'build1' on the end [08:06] what's build1 ? [08:06] and put a changelog entry of * Rebuild for new glu packages ? [08:06] sivang: well, thats what err,... doko? did for some cxx stuff ro whatever that needed rebuilding [08:07] Lathiat: is that a special way to tell the buildd to rebuild it? [08:07] (where do you specify it anyways) [08:07] yes [08:07] in the changelog [08:07] phee, the stuff you learn here [08:07] :-) [08:07] ajmitch: yeh but what version do i do, increment the ubuntu version or add build1? [08:07] :) [08:08] Lathiat: ahh... I'd go with increment ubuntu version to avoid -XubuntuYbuildZ, but that's just my opinion [08:08] well thats what i'd do too [08:08] what if it has no ubuntu version yet [08:08]