[12:23] <tvo> Riddell: you interested in a chat I had on #bksys about rpath?
[12:23] <Riddell> tvo: sure
[12:26] <tvo> Riddell: http://rafb.net/paste/results/SF0xLb84.html  didn't get the formatting right though
[12:29] <tvo> btw, should I gpg sign my package?
[12:30] <Riddell> tvo: yeah sign it is good practice
[12:31] <Riddell> I should look into what rpath is :)
[12:31] <tvo> k have to set up some keys and look into that too :)
[12:31] <tvo> you read the chat?
[12:31] <Riddell> yes, interesting chat
[12:32] <tvo> so, either I'm going to release the tarball with rpath and the debian packages without,
[12:32] <tvo> or I find some better info :)
[12:35] <Riddell> tvo: the .orig should be the same in both cases
[12:36] <tvo> yeah in that case the removal of rpath would go in the diff
[12:36] <Riddell> yep
[12:36] <Riddell> or better in debian/patches/foo.diff
[12:38] <uniq> http://wiki.debian.net/index.cgi?RpathIssue
[12:39] <Mez> Riddell, things are looking good for us!
[12:39] <Riddell> 23:39 [freenode2]  -!- Cannot join to channel #katapult (You have joined to too many channels)
[12:40] <Mez> *giggles*
[12:40] <Mez> lmao
[12:40] <Mez> how many channels you on ?
[12:40] <Riddell> 20 is the limit
[12:40] <Mez> you're on 20 channels?
[12:40] <Mez> what channels? I only see a few
[12:40] <Mez> * [Riddell]  #ubuntu #ubuntu-motu #ubuntu-meeting #kubuntu #ubuntu-devel #kubuntu-devel
[12:41] <tvo> uniq: thanks, reading it now
[12:42] <uniq> i can't do anything now that the shiny new xorg removed my xkb rules.
[12:53] <tvo> 62,400 rpath issues on google :)
[12:56] <tvo> anyway, there doesn't seem to be a right track: ~150,000 (add OR enable) rpath, almost same number (remove OR erase) rpath
[12:56] <tvo> :-/
[12:56] <tvo> slightly more add rpath than remove rpath though
[12:57] <tvo> sometimes people fix things by adding rpath, sometimes by removing it :-/
[12:57] <tvo> :-s
[12:58] <uniq> rpath is disabled in the kde packages.
[01:01] <tvo> hmm, debian upstream seems to prefer rpath disabled it seems
[01:02] <tvo> seems I'll go for no rpath for now....
[01:07] <Mez> Riddell: whenever I use "save session" It'll never ghet a copy of thunderbird to load on login... any ideas why?
[01:07] <Riddell> Mez: because it isn't kde
[01:08] <Mez> ...?
[01:08] <Mez> FF stays loaded, so does gaim :D
[01:19] <tvo> Riddell: how large is kubuntu, you can answer in #kubuntu :D
[01:19] <katoc> hi there!!
[01:19] <uniq> ah.. found a bunch of old xorg debs :)
[01:19] <uniq> now my keyboard works.. @ and all.
[01:19] <uniq> hi katoc.
[01:19] <katoc> have you modify a kubuntu install cd
[01:20] <katoc> ?
[01:20] <uniq> I have not.
[01:22] <uniq> i suggest asking in #ubuntu-devel about modifying cds.
[01:23] <tvo> laterzz, i'm off to bed..
[01:23] <katoc> uniq, 10x
[01:24] <uniq> gnite tvo.
[01:26] <fromoze> Riddell: New record on #kubuntu-es: now 8 users and at least 12 different has come in along the day. 
[01:27] <Riddell> fromoze: cool, maybe people do read the website :)
[01:27] <fromoze> Riddell: And I've introduce on barrapunto.org (spanish slashdot) a notice on my user blog asking for StR. I get an answer saying "I'm StR, but I've forgot my password"... I dunno, the answer arrive too quick, less 10 minuts
[01:30] <uniq> freenode staff will remove him for you.. 6 weeks since last login.. 
[01:30] <fromoze> but he's whon registered the channel :/
[01:31] <Riddell> I asked madkiss earlier, no reply
[01:32] <uniq> ok.
[01:32] <pef> good night !
[01:32] <uniq> nite pef.
[01:33] <uniq> riddell: did you make a oo.o vs koffice spec for breezy? 
[01:33] <Riddell> uniq: nope, writers block
[01:33] <uniq> ok.
[01:34] <Riddell> maybe I should do that now
[01:34] <Riddell> poke me and I'll do it
[01:34] <Riddell> otherwise I'll go to bed
[01:34] <uniq> i can list a few pro/cons if you need help to get started.
[01:36] <uniq> or i could go to bed too.. and we can do it all tomorrow or later.
[01:41] <uniq> let's do it later. I'll have to be up 0900 tomorro.. that's in 6 hours. time flies.
[01:41] <uniq> gnite.
[01:42] <Mez> do it :d
[01:43] <Mez> Kugar = grat
[01:43] <Mez> great 
[01:44] <Mez> o_O
[01:44] <Mez> kivio ?
[01:44] <uniq> the only problem with koffice is the random crashing.. and the ms office support.
[01:44] <Mez> shouldnt that be "umbrello"
[01:44] <Mez> I dont get the random crashing
[01:45] <Mez> MSO support sux thogh
[01:45] <Riddell> it's always crashed randomly for me
[01:45] <Riddell> kivio was terrible last I tried (which was years ago)
[01:45] <Riddell> Mez: and nobody knows what the heck Kugar does
[01:46] <Mez> Riddell - it's a bit like crystal reports :D
[01:46] <Mez> lol
[01:46] <Mez> I've used it before
[01:46] <Mez> and kexi
[01:46] <uniq> kexi and krita are nice.
[01:46] <uniq> i have more problems with kword and kpresenter.
[01:47] <uniq> me neither at the moment.
[01:47] <Riddell> kexi is in universe, if someone wants test out the mdb driver and check that it's packaging is good that would be nice
[01:47] <Mez> then whats the point of jugar ?
[01:47] <Mez> (am using hoary)
[01:47] <Mez> if there's no kexi
[01:47] <Mez> kugar = no point
[01:48] <Riddell> Mez: kugar has been around a lot lot longer than kexi
[01:48] <Mez> I thought kugar was a report thing for DBs though....
[01:49] <Riddell> not just DBs
[01:49] <Riddell> but it was pretty useless
[01:49] <Mez> I thought it was for DBs
[01:49] <Riddell> well for any structured data I guess
[01:49] <Mez> therfore in Koffice - kugar without kexi =- poop
[01:50] <Riddell> which is why its existance causes confusion
[01:50] <Mez> ooh, I got a copy of the katapult icon
[01:50] <Riddell> it was written by theKompany, I guess they had some need for it
[01:50] <Riddell> Mez: let's see
[01:51] <Mez> funky...
[01:51] <Mez> weird but funky
[01:53] <Riddell> have you seen oo.o2?  the buttons don't even fit on the toolbar
[01:53] <Riddell> not at 1024 anyway
[01:53] <uniq> haven't tested oo.o2 much.
[01:54] <uniq> tried to use the first build for hoary. it crashed opening it's own files so i gave up.
[01:55] <uniq> nice.. new splash
[01:56] <uniq> hey, oo.o2 looks nice.
[01:56] <uniq> almost kde-ish.
[01:56] <Riddell> uniq: do the fonts look half decent?  do the buttons fit on the bar?
[01:56] <Mez> still uploading, my comp'#s being a bitch
[01:58] <Mez> oh, for f**k sake
[02:00] <Mez> Riddell: they're up it's just my CMS is ebing a btich abiout them
[02:00] <Mez> I'm using fish:/
[02:00] <Mez> :P
[02:05] <Riddell> uniq: tried using fish:/ or sftp:/ with openoffice?  only half works
[02:05] <Riddell> yeah, the buttons don't fit.  how braindead is that?
[02:05] <uniq> it's better than a crashing koffice imho.
[02:06] <Mez> http://www.sourceguru.net/stuff/12/katapult-icons
[02:06] <Riddell> I know I know
[02:07] <Mez> the second one makes me think
[02:07] <Mez> "nananananananananananananananananananananananana"
[02:07] <Mez> "BATMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
[02:08] <Riddell> weird
[02:08] <Mez> what do you think?
[02:09] <Riddell> not sure any of them would look good at 22x22, too detailed
[02:10] <Mez> hence the iddly ones :d
[02:11] <Riddell> but but... what the heck is it?
[02:11] <Mez> thats what I was about to say
[02:11] <seth_k> Riddell++, my thought exactly
[02:12] <Riddell> oh well, it's not like we'll have the icon showing at all
[02:19] <Mez> ol
[02:19] <Mez> I'll email him back saying 2we don't think it'll scaletoo well to 22x22 - btw, wtf is it?
[02:26] <Mez> I think it's meant to resemble some sort of barista
[02:27] <Mez> ballista *
[09:15] <doko> Riddell: ping
[09:36] <doko> Riddell: once daniels stops splitting every man page out of xbase-clients, could you check to replace the xbase-clients dependency in kde4libs ?
[09:57] <\sh> doko: even ubuntu-desktop is borked because of this...i just destroyed everything here
[11:54] <pef> hi
[11:55] <JRe> hi pef
[12:16] <tvo> hmm, it seems that slocate regexp matching is really broken, could someone confirm that?
[12:24] <Riddell> tvo: slocate -r works for me
[12:25] <tvo> Riddell: hmm, it's weird, only very few regexp commands are supported than
[12:25] <tvo> | * + don't work for me
[12:27] <tvo> nevermind, it does matching on the entire path, not a substring
[12:27] <JRe> Riddell: there is no kdissert package in ubuntu ?
[12:27] <Riddell> JRe: breezy only I think
[12:28] <JRe> Riddell: ow yeah! thks.
[12:29] <tvo> hmm, no, it just takes way longer if I add .* to begin and end of pattern
[12:31] <tvo> Riddell: which expression(s) did you try?
[12:36] <Riddell> tvo: random .*
[12:36] <tvo> I think I understand, it's just a way too old regexp format
[12:36] <tvo> special characters are escaped instead of unescaped in many cases
[12:37] <tvo> and it's incompatible with QRegExp, so in current implementation regexp isn't even possible
[12:37] <tvo> in kio-locate
[12:46] <JRe> Riddell: there is an iso of hoary with the KDE 3.4.1 packages ?
[12:48] <Riddell> JRe: yes http://kubuntu.org/hoary-koffice-14.php
[12:48] <JRe> Riddell: thanks a lot
[01:27] <tvo> Riddell: is this .diff and .orig stuff in the source package required?
[01:27] <JRe> tvo: yes
[01:28] <JRe> tvo: dsc *diff.gz and *.orig.gz
[01:28] <tvo> hmm, I can build a package with just a .tar.gz, but
[01:28] <JRe> s/dsc/*.dsc/
[01:28] <tvo> but I've not yet figured out how to make a diff and orig
[01:28] <JRe> tvo: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
[01:28] <JRe> tvo: but read debian NM guide first
[01:29] <Riddell> tvo: you can make a package with just a .tar.gz but that's generally only a good idea for small packages with no upstream
[01:29] <Riddell> tvo: you make the .orig.gz yourself then debuild makes the .diff
[01:29] <tvo> let me try that..
[01:30] <JRe> tvo: the naming convention for the orig is this one: package_version.orig.tar.gz
[01:30] <tvo> JRe: so bz2 is also not possible?
[01:30] <Riddell> no, gz only
[01:30] <JRe> tvo: no
[01:30] <tvo> k thanks
[01:32] <pef> Riddell: dh_make handle bzip2 no ? (not at the moment )
[01:34] <Riddell> don't think so
[01:35] <tvo> I think I'm getting the right files now, still compiling...
[01:36] <pef> Riddell: I think yes ;) grep bzip /usr/bin/dh_make
[01:37] <Riddell> pef: that's for sources which are bzip2, it converts them to gz
[01:38] <pef> Riddell: misunderstood, sorry :)
[01:39] <tvo> got the right package files.. now testing again...
[01:54] <tvo> hmm seems I've accidentally deleted the new help file I typed a few days ago :(
[01:55] <pef> tvo: backups rox :)
[01:55] <tvo> pef: yes, I'm still looking, it might be an issue with the build system
[02:02] <tvo> there's some weird kind of caching in the help system it seems..
[02:03] <tvo> or the new bksys installs them in the wrong place..
[02:18] <tvo> aaaaargh build system changed kio_locate into kio-locate :) that was the problem, it's solved now
[02:31] <OculusAquilae> hi
[02:31] <OculusAquilae> hi
[02:32] <OculusAquilae> do we have any program for breezy making it possible to install .debs by clicking on it or do you don't think that this is neccassary?
[02:34] <tvo> I don't know if we have it, but it would be fairly easy to link .debs to a graphical program which does dpkg -i with a progess bar I think..
[02:35] <OculusAquilae> but it should install the deps via apt-get, too, shouldn't it
[02:36] <uniq> we have kpackage.. maybe it's to complex for simple things like installing a package.
[02:37] <uniq> don't know if you can make it install a .deb by passing a few parameters to it.. 
[02:37] <Riddell> OculusAquilae: we don't, and it would be good, but it depends on kapture stuff getting developed
[02:37] <OculusAquilae> uniq: I think kpackage is to complicated for our uses, isn't it
[02:38] <OculusAquilae> Riddell: Who is developing kapture
[02:38] <Riddell> mornfall
[02:38] <Riddell> he's currently working on libapt-front which is a nice library for apt
[02:47] <OculusAquilae> thanks
[02:47] <pef> Riddell: kde-devel seems to be broken
[02:49] <Riddell> pef: the mailing list?
[02:49] <Riddell> oh no, the package
[02:49] <Riddell> pef: what's up with it?
[02:49] <pef> Riddell: not installable in breezy
[02:50] <Riddell> pef: what's the error
[02:50] <pef> Riddell: http://rafb.net/paste/results/Z8Mebt27.html
[02:52] <\sh> yes
[02:52] <\sh> i think these are x dep issues :( 
[02:53] <Riddell> they will be
[02:53] <\sh> but thx to god..not only kde is broken ,-) 
[02:53] <Riddell> yes, saw seb having much the same conversation with daniels this morning as I had yesterday
[02:54] <\sh> what was the consense?
[02:55] <Riddell> "how do I build anything without libXrender.la?"  "fix all the other .la files that still reference it"
[02:56] <\sh> u mean, we have to rebuild the whole system because one file moved from a to b?
[02:57] <Riddell> \sh: it's not been moved, it's been removed
[02:58] <\sh> yeah..removed == moved to /bin/trash | /dev/null ,-)
[02:58] <pef> be careful with upgrading, xkb is totally broken 
[02:59] <Riddell> oh what larks, xbase-clients is broken again
[03:00] <\sh> more then that
[03:00] <\sh> it's completly destroyed
[03:00] <pef> it's simply missing :D
[03:00] <\sh> xhost xdpyinfo etc. is missing, yes, xbase-clients is destroyed ,-)
[03:01] <pef> \sh: your keymap is currently broken ?
[03:01] <\sh> pef: not now...but give me 10 mins
[03:01] <pef> \sh: wrote the fix on paper ;) https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12695
[03:03] <\sh> hmmm..firefox is crashing :(
[03:03] <\sh> no konqeuror anymore...
[03:04] <\sh> looks as a good solution for a workaround
[03:05] <pef> but this fix didn't work as is for me
[03:06] <\sh> Riddell: so which b-d we have to move out of the way for fixing the missed libXrender issue?
[03:07] <Riddell> \sh: b-d?
[03:07] <\sh> build-dep
[03:08] <Riddell> \sh: the problem isn't in build-deps, it's in other X packages which still mention libXrender.la in their .la files
[03:16] <Riddell> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuOfficeSuite  discuss.
[03:16] <Riddell> you need a launchpad login to edit
[03:32] <haggai> why is stuff still in udu.wiki instead of wiki. ?
[03:33] <Riddell> haggai: I think the specs for breezy will always be on udu just because that's where they started
[03:34] <JRe> Riddell: there is a package of OO2 ?
[03:34] <Riddell> JRe: there is
[04:47] <tvo> Riddell: I've just upped source package and hoary binary to my webspace, see wiki
[04:47] <tvo> compiled in pbuilder, tested with lintian, linda
[04:55] <Riddell> tvo: hoary or breezy?
[04:56] <tvo> binary for hoary, breezy is broken
[04:56] <tvo> source is like uniq's ==> for breezy
[04:56] <Riddell> yep
[04:57] <tvo> I'll rebuild them later today, want to cleanup the help page a bit
[04:57] <tvo> then I'm going to send a mail to armin
[05:31] <Riddell> Mez: is there a backport of kexi?
[05:31] <Mez> nope
[05:32] <Riddell> Mez: how does someone request one?
[05:34] <Mez> poke me :D
[05:34] <Mez> lol
[05:34] <Mez> but if you want to make one yourself, I'll upload it for ya :D
[05:35] <Riddell> I don't, just wanting to reply to someone on the mailing list
[05:37] <Mez> which mailing list?
[05:37] <Riddell> kubuntu-users
[05:37] <Mez> ah forgot to subsribe to taht one
[05:37] <Mez> I'll reply
[05:38] <Mez> whats the subject?
[05:38] <Riddell> [kubuntu-users]  Re: [kubuntu-users]  Re: Any database program?
[05:39] <Mez> ah you already replied anyways
[05:39] <Riddell> you can tell it's me by the excessive square bracket mailing list labeling 
[05:40] <Mez> ?
[05:40] <Mez> actualyl 
[05:40] <Mez> gmane doesnt show any of that
[05:41] <Mez> just shows
[05:41] <Mez> Re: Re: Any database program?
[05:42] <Riddell> how clever of it :)
[05:43] <Mez> hehe
[05:51] <Riddell> Failed to fetch http://ftp.kde.org/stable/3.4.1/kubuntu/dists/hoary-updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  302 Found
[05:51] <Riddell> apt is a bit daft at times
[06:03] <fromoze> Riddell: I just remember the main problem I find in kubuntu: Why kget isn't in the default instalation??? 
[06:03] <Riddell> ah yes
[06:04] <Riddell> well mainly because it's got a complex user interface which is inconsistent with file transfers that happen not to use kget
[06:05] <Riddell> plus it has messy defaults, adding an extra button to konqueror, that weird drop target thing and big popup messages "do you want to use this with konqueror"
[06:05] <Riddell> which put me off it
[06:05] <fromoze> Riddell: I see, good arguments :)
[06:06] <Riddell> but maybe I should give it another shot
[06:06] <Riddell> what else did that mailing list post ask for?
[06:06] <fromoze> Can I copy them to comment on my blog? I make a very bad post about the fault of kget xD
[06:10] <Soneras> hi there
[06:11] <Riddell> fromoze: sure, where's your blog?
[06:11] <Soneras> Riddell: about KGet. I know what you mean, but the drop target thing isn't there by default. maybe the additional (web-only) toolbar button can be removed as well?
[06:12] <fromoze> Riddell: Is in spanish xD
[06:12] <Riddell> oh, opening in new tabs instead of new windows was the defualt
[06:12] <Riddell> konqueror should come to forground when opening a new tab
[06:13] <fromoze> Riddell: now is fromoze.blogspot.com... but i talk about kget on my old livejournal. The interesting link is www.augcyl.org/planet ;)
[06:15] <Riddell> fromoze: what is augcyl?
[06:16] <fromoze> Riddell: Asociacin de Usuarios de Gnu de Castilla y Len - A lug :)
[06:16] <fromoze> well a Lug's association..
[06:17] <Soneras> Riddel, did you read that (lenghty) eMail of mine (Suggestions for two KubuntuDefaults)? If so, was the 'issue' about everything opening in the same window as a tab understandable?
[06:17] <Riddell> Soneras: ah, that was you :)
[06:18] <Riddell> Soneras: yes, understandable
[06:18] <Soneras> it was me :)
[06:18] <Riddell> Soneras: the trouble is that the other way you end up with lots and lots of konqueror windows which gets in the way (like spacial browsing)
[06:19] <Riddell> in breezy the defaults are set for downloads/file transfers to be in only one window, which is quite neat.  but I guess doesn't have the features of kget (it should damnit)
[06:20] <Soneras> does it have resume (which I suppose is the most important one)
[06:20] <Riddell> Soneras: it does not
[06:20] <Soneras> oh hmm. still worked on I guess :)
[06:21] <Riddell> kget features like resume should be part of kioslaves
[06:21] <Riddell> then it would all be nice and slick
[06:21] <Soneras> yeah, at times it'd be usefull locally as well. although I really don't mind kget I have to admit
[06:24] <Riddell> gah, kget takes up more room in system tray
[06:24] <Soneras> oh. that's true
[06:25] <Soneras> makes for less open windows though.
[06:25] <Riddell> and if I pause my download it disappears
[06:25] <Soneras> but well, I'll not try to convince you of anything here ;)
[06:26] <Soneras> about the other thing though (tabs instead of windows)...
[06:26] <Soneras> with spatial browsing you get a new window every time you open a folder... that's a lot of mess, I agree. but it's not like that in kde. 
[06:27] <Soneras> users only get a new window when they specifically open a new icon, outside the current konqueror window. 
[06:27] <Soneras> so, errrm, when they want a second window they click "home" again - and can interact with both windows (copy'n'paste and the like) 
[06:27] <seth_k> btw Riddell, re OpenOffice / KOffice, OpenOffice includes drawing and database programs.
[06:27] <seth_k> so no fair citing that as a KOffice advantage :P
[06:27] <Riddell> seth_k: drawing is not bitmap?
[06:27] <Riddell> and database doesn't work (needs java)
[06:28] <Soneras> does that sound reasonable? I have had to explain most people I gave kubuntu how to open more windows (instead of tabs)
[06:28] <seth_k> ah, well played
[06:30] <Riddell> Soneras: how about if Konqueror came into the forground when a new tab was opened?
[06:32] <uniq> hello.
[06:32] <Soneras> Riddell: hmm, would really change the issues (wanting more windows for better control / overview) the everything-tabbed idea has.
[06:32] <Soneras> hi uniq
[06:33] <Mez> Riddell: should I close the amarok-artsd bug?> seeing as it's now been changed to gstremer?
[06:33] <Mez> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/514
[06:33] <Riddell> Mez: yes please
[06:33] <Riddell> Mez: it's also changed to 
[06:33] <Riddell> Mez: it's also changed to alsa
[06:34] <Mez> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/462
[06:35] <Mez> is that bug still buggy?
[06:35] <Riddell> Mez: shouldn't be, close it saying it's fixed in breezy and hoary-updates
[06:35] <uniq> riddell: hmm.. is using alsa directly a good thing?
[06:36] <uniq> won't it lock the device? 
[06:36] <uniq> (if the soundcard sucks)
[06:36] <Riddell> uniq: gstreamer -> alsasink I mean
[06:36] <uniq> ah.
[06:36] <uniq> gstreamer.
[06:36] <Riddell> got an opinion on gstreamer?
[06:36] <uniq> haven't used it much.
[06:37] <uniq> right now i use polypaudio (dropin esd replacement).
[06:37] <uniq> tried to have artsd output to it.. but didn't work well.
[06:38] <Mez> hehe
[06:38] <uniq> generally i like to do things the KDE way. but amarok is a bitch. they should fix the arts engine :)
[06:38] <pef> Riddell: I think kdelibs4-dev is broken :(
[06:39] <uniq> pef: it's not kde, it's X.
[06:39] <Riddell> uniq: nope, KDE should remove arts :)
[06:39] <Riddell> pef: in breezy?
[06:39] <pef> Riddell: yes
[06:39] <uniq> riddell: well.. not remove, replace.
[06:39] <pef> Riddell: http://rafb.net/paste/results/TjgslV45.html
[06:40] <Riddell> pef: yeah, that's xbase-clients being broken :(
[06:40] <uniq> KDE needs a soundserver to run on other operating systems. can't focus too much on alsa.
[06:41] <pef> Riddell: It begin hard to build packages now :] 
[06:41] <uniq> pef: you can install kdelibs4-dev with: 'apt-get install kdelibs4-dev libopenexr-dev libqt3-mt-dev'
[06:43] <pef> uniq: thanks ;)
[06:44] <uniq> the libXrender issue is nice too.
[06:48] <pef> for a new program, like kvpnc-0.7.2-2, the correct version for ubuntu is 0.7.2-2-0ubuntu1 right ?
[06:49] <uniq> kvpnc-0.7.2-2ubuntu1
[06:50] <Riddell> pef: does the -2 come from debian or from kvpnc?
[06:51] <pef> debian
[06:52] <Riddell> as uniq says then
[06:53] <pef> and for a revision like 8.4 it will be 8.4-0ubuntu1 correct ?
[06:54] <Riddell> yes
[06:54] <Riddell> the -0 means it doesn't have a debian verion yet
[06:54] <Riddell> pef: you should add this to the KubuntuPackagingGuide
[06:55] <pef> yep
[07:55] <Soneras> just added Kasablanca, a ftp client to suggestedpackages - or has someone another idea for a useable kde ftp cliernt? just stumbled updon that requirement and since kbear crashes had to use gftp..
[07:55] <Soneras> or is there already a kasablanca package I missed?
[07:55] <Riddell> Soneras: konqueror
[07:56] <Soneras> yeah, but it trys to open don'T-know-how-many connections, when copying
[07:56] <Riddell> Soneras: jre made packages https://wiki.ubuntu.com//MOTUNewPackages
[07:56] <Soneras> thus it doesnt work
[07:56] <Riddell> of kasablanca
[07:57] <Soneras> oh and kftpgrabber. will check that out too, thanks
[07:57] <Soneras> (though kasablanca seems leaner ;))
[07:57] <Soneras> btw, Riddell, I had another question before: will there be a bootsplash and a grub menu background for kubuntu in breezy?
[07:58] <Soneras> and if so, is there already beeing worked on? (on the artwork)
[07:58] <Riddell> Soneras: I suspect not, poke sladen
[07:59] <Riddell> the artwork would be just the same as the default wallpaper anyway
[08:00] <Soneras> yeah; I thought I might help there - altering the wallpaper to fit the different format and sizes/resolutions. did that for simplymepis
[08:03] <Riddell> Soneras: aah, a mepis man :)
[08:03] <Riddell> Soneras: anything they have we should steal?
[08:04] <Soneras> their system toolsd
[08:04] <tvo> uniq: ping
[08:04] <Riddell> Soneras: to which soures are not available
[08:04] <Riddell> as far as anyone can tell
[08:05] <Soneras> yep. although most seem to agree it's gpl
[08:05] <Soneras> did you try to ping the author?
[08:05] <Riddell> I havn't, amu did
[08:06] <Soneras> no reply? warren (the mepis guy) always seemed rather busy - hard to get some reply even when working on some artwork.
[08:09] <tvo> Riddell: you happen to know the reason uniq had for not including scons-mini in old kio-locate?
[08:10] <Riddell> tvo: nope, is it needed?
[08:10] <Riddell> doesn't build-dep on scons mean it isn't needed?
[08:10] <tvo> well, ita (author of bksys) is trying to persuade me to include it because:
[08:11] <tvo> it's faster and scons 0.96.90 (not packaged for ubuntu) has bugs
[08:11] <Riddell> ah well, go ahead then :)
[08:12] <tvo> in that, case, i'm off to change the build system again :p
[08:39] <fromoze> Riddell: StR is on kubuntu-es :)
[08:40] <Riddell> fromoze: groovy, tell him to give everyone 30 admin points on #kubuntu-es
[08:47] <StR> is Riddell here?
[08:48] <Riddell> StR: hi
[08:48] <StR> Hi Riddell I read in #kubuntu-es that you and many more were looking for me?
[08:49] <Riddell> StR: yep :)  we want you to give op rights to others on the channel to prevent abuse
[08:49] <StR> full op or voice op... or what do they need?
[08:50] <Riddell> StR: full thing
[08:50] <StR> and do you know who they are?
[08:50] <Riddell> StR: me and fromoze would be a good start
[08:51] <fromoze> I'm using irc since a week... better wincide than me I think
[08:51] <Riddell> StR: yes, wincide too
[08:51] <Riddell> fromoze: and now you'll never escape from IRC
[08:52] <StR> ok.. I will talk to the guys in the chan...
[08:52] <fromoze> Riddell may be :P
[08:55] <seth_k> Riddell: mind if I add those caveats about OOo's draw and base programs to the wikipage? Or is that common knowledge that I just overlooked :D
[08:56] <Riddell> seth_k: go ahead
[08:56] <Riddell> but draw is vector based as I recall, they removed the bitmap stuff from staroffice for some reason
[09:03] <Riddell> tvo: http://luispedro.org/software/index/
[09:04] <Riddell> tvo: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-core-devel&m=112014703018956&w=2
[09:05] <tvo> bookmarked for now, I doubt I'll have time to look at it before the weekly status :)
[09:07] <tvo> still have to rebuild&test the packages..
[09:10] <seth_k> Riddell, right, Draw is vector based. Btw I don't see any problems with OOo fonts or toolbar icons on my copy
[09:10] <tvo> does someone here know why the &underFDL; and &underGPL; tags in a docbook manual don't work?
[09:11] <tvo> that is: they generate links to the wrong location
[09:16] <Riddell> tvo: do you know where they are defined?
[09:16] <pef> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPackagingGuide does it seems right ?
[09:17] <Riddell> seth_k: I don't know why it doesn't like me then
[09:17] <tvo> Riddell: do you mean where the actual files are? or where &under*; is defined?
[09:18] <Riddell> pef: 0.7.2-1 becomes 0.7.2-1ubuntu1 not 0.7.2-2ubuntu1
[09:19] <tvo> answers: i know where the files are; i don't know where &under*; is defined (if it is)
[09:19] <Riddell> "If your program hasn't been yet packaged" -> "If your program hasn't been yet packaged in Debian"
[09:19] <Riddell> "0 for not yet packaged" -> "0 for not yet packaged in Debian"
[09:19] <Riddell> tvo: where &under* is defined.  is this KDE or general docbook?
[09:20] <tvo> Riddell: KDE, it's compiled with meinproc
[09:20] <Riddell> tvo: do other documents use those tags (and does it work for them)?
[09:21] <tvo> Riddell: i'll check
[09:23] <tvo> Riddell: they work for kdiff and knetattach
[09:23] <tvo> though they seem to generate the exact same code.. so maybe I should install the GPL and FDL manually
[09:23] <tvo> or install symlinks?
[09:24] <tvo> &underGPL; generates some text with: help:/kio-locate/common/gpl-license.html
[09:24] <tvo> but a working url would be: help:/common/gpl-license.html
[09:27] <pef> Riddell: thanks
[09:27] <tvo> Riddell: it seems the tag is working fine, but I need to install symlink, copies or redirect pages for these licenses
[09:27] <Riddell> pef: I've updated the wiki
[09:28] <Riddell> tvo: how annoying, what does kdiff etc do?
[09:28] <pef> Riddell: the wiki notices me :)
[09:29] <tvo> wait a minute, I'll try to figure out
[09:30] <seth_k> http://sethkinast.com/tmp/ooo.png Riddell. Is that not how you see it? (besides the funny R's, which I don't have.)
[09:31] <Riddell> seth_k: that's about right.  it's the funny r's that must just be me
[09:34] <seth_k> okay, removing KOffice point accordingly.
[09:34] <Riddell> seth_k: eek?  which point?
[09:35] <seth_k> the "fonts all work" point?
[09:35] <Riddell> hmm, ok.  but I'll add it back as soon as I find someone with broken r's :)
[09:36] <Riddell> fromoze: we don't seem to have ops on #kubuntu-es
[09:36] <seth_k> okay :D i stuck a comment on the diff so it's easy to spot
[09:36] <pef> Soneras: Kftpgrabber ?
[09:36] <Soneras> pef: hmm?
[09:37] <pef> Soneras: ftp client
[09:37] <Soneras> ah yes, I'm having a look at kasablanca and kftpgrabber at the moment
[09:37] <fromoze> Riddell. We? jpatrick says I've voice... I don't understand enough :/
[09:38] <Soneras> I think kasablanca is well done (has some issues though - writing a lenghty mail to the author... which I have to find first anyway) =)
[09:42] <tvo> Riddell: docs.kde.org has the same problem. Links to GPL and FDL are broken links everywhere I look..
[09:43] <pef> libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/lib/libXrender.la' current X issue right ?
[09:44] <Riddell> pef: yes
[09:44] <Riddell> (one of them)
[09:46] <pef> ok
[09:46] <Riddell> tvo: report it to bugs.kde.org maybe
[09:47] <tvo> Riddell: ok I'll do that, seems to be KDE-wide anyway..
[09:51] <Soneras> does anyone know if JeanRemyFalleri is actively working on kasablanca code? or is he 'just' packaging?
[09:53] <Riddell> seth_k: just packaging
[09:53] <Riddell> Soneras: 
[09:54] <Soneras> Riddell: k, thanks
[10:04] <Riddell> anyone got opinions on AdvancedAddBookmarkDialog=true  for bookmarks?
[10:05] <Soneras> anyplace I can read up on this?
[10:06] <\sh> grmpf...
[10:06] <\sh> what was the workaround for xorg not starting with "fatal error: can't find fixed font" ? 
[10:09] <Riddell> Soneras: on which?
[10:09] <pef> \sh: have checked the fontpath in xorg.conf ?
[10:09] <Riddell> \sh: edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf change /usr/share to /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/*
[10:10] <Soneras> on AdvancedBookmarkDialog
[10:10] <Riddell> Soneras: Bookmarks->Add in konqueror, should that dialogue appear or not
[10:14] <Soneras> Riddell: Sorry, still not sure what this means - adding bookmarks in Konqueror should be possible, but I suppose that's not the point. nevermind though, I'm sure somebody else knows about this and can give more educated feedback.
[10:19] <\sh> think Imessed up now everything
[10:20] <\sh> which package installs /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/* ? i don't have it...and xfonts-base is wrong
[10:21] <\sh> mkfontdir is not found..
[10:21] <Riddell> Soneras: when you add a bookmark in konqueror a dialogue box appears, but it can also be set so the dialogue box doesn't appear and the bookmark is just added.  which do you prefer?
[10:23] <Riddell> \sh: xfonts-75dpi has some
[10:24] <\sh> mkfontdir not found.
[10:24] <Soneras> Riddell: Ah ok. Personally I prefer it with the dialog - can change the name directly, but I see the advantage (a lot faster, and 80% correct names) of not having a dialog as well.
[10:24] <\sh> can't read fonts.dir 
[10:25] <\sh> hmm
[10:25] <\sh> xutils is empty but the doc
[11:08] <Riddell> how about this for a default?  konqueror --profile simplebrowser
[11:09] <tvo> Riddell: a Q about python build-depend: do I need to specify an upper limit for the version?
[11:10] <Riddell> tvo: yeah probably good practice, python <= 2.5 or the like
[11:10] <Riddell> tvo: what python are you playing with?
[11:10] <tvo> Riddell: i'm changing the build to use scons-mini
[11:10] <tvo> scons-mini is python, so I need to specify python build-depend instead of scons
[11:11] <Riddell> tvo: you might want to put that ony our wiki page (for people googling for scons debian packaging etc)
[11:11] <Riddell> on your
[11:11] <tvo> I was told the << 2.5 which is used for scons for example is because the python script gets compiled into bytecode
[11:12] <Riddell> compiling to bytecode should be done at install time no?
[11:12] <tvo> but I reasoned this wouldn't matter in my case because it's a build depend and no python byte code is supposed to get in the deb
[11:12] <tvo> yep
[11:12] <Riddell> oh, build-depend, wouldn't both then
[11:13] <tvo> maybe I can find another app which uses a python build script..
[11:17] <tvo> hmm I don't know how to search for packages with certain build-deps so i'll leave it for now I think
[11:20] <Riddell> it's not too important I suspect :)
[11:21] <tvo> Riddell: does it matter if I didn't do a thing with .po files for now?
[11:21] <tvo> and .pot
[11:21] <tvo> if it doesn't matter too much the package is finally finished i think :)
[11:23] <Riddell> tvo: you should create .pot files somewhere along the lines, but you can't do that in the build script just now since we don't have the kde gettext in the archive
[11:24] <tvo> Riddell: yeah, I understood something like that, but question is more: does it matter if I distribute a package with heavily outdated .pot files?
[11:25] <Riddell> tvo: it doesn't matter no, unless they get picked up by a translator who uses them
[11:48] <tvo> 11 minutes left :)
[11:49] <tvo> but packages upped, dnloaded md5sums compared, ok
[11:49] <Riddell> if Europe is an hour ahead does that mean you can get Harry Potter an hour early?
[11:52] <tvo> hmm, might be, have to check that :)
[11:53] <Riddell> well no spoilers please :)
[11:58] <\sh> hmm
[11:58] <\sh> new harry potter?
[11:59] <tvo> ..and 1 minute before deadline.. he clicks "save changes" on the wiki.. ;p
[12:00] <Riddell> \sh: quick, run to a bookshop now!
[12:00] <Riddell> poor postman tomorrow
[12:01] <\sh> Riddell: no :) I have my copy already :)
[12:03] <Riddell> \sh: how did you manage that?
[12:04] <\sh> riddell: I have it not here..but I will get it without any hassel from a friend, he's working for bertelsmann
[12:04] <\sh> native version (english) for 10 eur
[12:04] <\sh> like the last book of hp
[12:04] <Riddell> ah right
[12:05] <\sh> I mean I ordered already
[12:05] <\sh> problem is, when u try to get the original edition, normally u pay a lot more here in germany 
[12:06] <\sh> and the normal price for the last HP in german was 27 EUR
[12:06] <\sh> we got the native print for 9.99 EUR as special employee price from bertelsmann...and this time again...so friend is buying a couple of those books :)