[12:07] <bradb> lifeless: that would seem to address the problems i've been having with pqm. it might be useful if the terminate actions via the web UI included the output that would have been included in the failure email when pqm is bounced currently.
[12:08] <bradb> a little bit that shows me how long the current job has been running might be useful too
[12:11] <lifeless> bradb: so, the former is non trivial - the output is in another processes memory buffer
[12:11] <lifeless> bradb: and not particularly relevant IMO. the submitter needs the error, not the admin/whoever
[12:12] <bradb> lifeless: what if the submitter isn't around anymore?
[12:12] <lifeless> bradb: the second, would be doable by stating the file with the pid in it.
[12:12] <lifeless> bradb: then they check their email the next day.
[12:12] <lifeless> bradb: remember *they* are the person that has to correct their branch.
[12:12] <bradb> lifeless: if the problem is specific to their branch, yeah
[12:12] <lifeless> bradb: and if its not they email the list
[12:13] <lifeless> bradb: remember that pqm admins will have shell acess still. This isn't meant to substitute for that
[12:13] <lifeless> its meant to provide a means for folk to not curse and swear when $admin isn't available.
[12:14] <bradb> right, i understand that
[12:15] <bradb> as a general principle, i just find it useful to get feedback from the system about something that went wrong, if possible. i can understand if it's non-trivial to implement though and, in that case, perhaps not worth the effort
[12:16] <lifeless> there are also security considerations
[12:16] <lifeless> its one thing to stop someone elses job
[12:16] <lifeless> its another entirely to show $random the output from it
[12:16] <lifeless> remember that pqm essentially runs arbitrary code.
[12:17] <bradb> sure, but these are trusted people that can access the web UI, right?
[12:18] <lifeless> not mutually trusted no
[12:18] <bradb> for example, i don't consider the failure messages i get from pqm to be "for my eyes only" :)
[12:19] <lifeless> I can trivially imagine uses of pqm where that would apply
[12:19] <bradb> lifeless: i'd be surprised if non-Launchpad people could kill launchpad jobs. likewise, i'd be surprised if non-baz people could kill baz jobs.
[12:20] <lifeless> bradb: auth for pqm is via gpg. Unless the web auth uses 'please sign this via gpg and paste to me' to activate that red button, there will be almost no security on it
[12:20] <lifeless> so yes - baz people will be able to kill lp jobs and vice verca, at least for a 1.0 release of that
[12:20] <bradb> oh :)
[12:37] <carlos> lifeless, so what did you fixed?
[12:37] <lifeless> carlos: I emailed the list. I've disabled pomsgset
[12:38] <lifeless> carlos: and anything that depends on it.
[12:38] <carlos> so you have disabled Rosetta
[12:38] <lifeless> yup
[12:38] <lifeless> there is no robots.txt I could find
[12:38] <lifeless> so I couldn't try that solution
[12:39] <lifeless> if we could identify the page (I've given you all the info I have) we could perhaps make it logged in users only or something
[12:40] <carlos> lifeless, that method is used by most +translations pages
[12:40] <carlos> but it was that way since long ago, so I don't understand why is it a problem now
[12:40] <lifeless> carlos: like I said in my email, I think its a googlification change
[12:41] <carlos> what change was that?
[12:42] <lifeless> carlos: I don't know. I'm guessing
[12:42] <carlos> lifeless, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileGAiq3d.html
[12:42] <carlos> lifeless, I got that error from PQM :-?
[12:43] <carlos> btw, it's the main hoary translations page
[12:43] <carlos> it took a lot to load using staging
[12:43] <lifeless> right
[12:43] <carlos> but that page is not using that method at all
[12:43] <lifeless> well
[12:43] <carlos> at least I don't see the info we get with that method
[12:44] <lifeless> the query stub and I found is the culprit
[12:44] <lifeless> carlos: no idea about that error
[12:51] <carlos> lifeless, I'm not sure the problem is that SQL query
[12:52] <carlos> I don't see anything that calls it from the URL I gave you
[12:54] <lifeless> carlos: that query is the only symptom stub and I have identified so far.
[12:55] <lifeless> carlos: please operate on the assumption that that is the problem, or tightly related to the problem.
[01:12] <carlos> kiko, lifeless: The patch to fix that needs a db patch to store the value that the method returns
[01:12] <carlos> kiko, lifeless how will we handle that ?
[01:12] <carlos> it's a field addition to POFile
[01:16] <lifeless> carlos: usual way. get it written, then review.
[01:17] <lifeless> I will be in flight probably, but if its early enough, I'll review the db patch and apply.
[01:17] <lifeless> once I'm in flight, it has to wait for stub to arrive, he arrives before me I think.
[01:19] <lifeless> carlos: are you sure its not just giving anonymous users too much info ? or an object that does too much during __init__ ?
[01:19] <lifeless> back in a bit
[01:20] <carlos> lifeless, I can give you the page that gave us problems
[01:20] <carlos> at least I think I found it
[01:20] <carlos> lifeless, if it's trivial for you to change it now....
[01:25] <carlos> lifeless, It's late here, and I should go to sleep. At what time will you leave? (UTC)
[02:07] <mdke> any rosetta people still up?
[02:08] <mdke> clicking on any language here causes a system error, thus preventing any translation AFAIK https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+translations
[02:10] <carlos> mdke, we are having performance problems
[02:10] <carlos> and had to disable most of Rosetta pages
[02:10] <carlos> so malone and the other bits of launchpad are alive
[02:11] <carlos> I hope the situation will be better in a couple of hours with an alternative solution, until we get that fixed
[02:11] <carlos> good night
[03:15] <lifeless> carlos: I leave home to start the trip at 1730 UTC
[03:15] <lifeless> carlos: I think. something like that anyway.
[03:15] <lifeless> 18 hours from now
[04:12] <dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/dists--bazaar--1.5: new build (patch-40)
[04:12] <dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/hackerlab--devo--1.5: inline ar_size, and implement the upstream talloc alignment fix adjusted for hackerlabs needs (patch-8: robert.collins@canonical.com)
[07:19] <jamesh> spiv: around?
[07:25] <spiv> jamesh: Yeah.
[07:26] <jamesh> spiv: I was looking into how difficult it would be to set some SQL connection vars for webapp.  What would the best place to do this be?
[07:26] <jamesh> spiv: I saw there was some stuff in canonical/lp/sql.py, but that doesn't seem to be executed per-connection
[07:27] <jamesh> would a wrapper round PsycopgAdapter be appropriate?
[07:29] <spiv> Hmm.
[07:30] <spiv> I think that's probably the best spot, yeah.
[07:36] <jamesh> spiv: such an adapter would fit best in canonical/database?
[07:43] <spiv> Yeah, that's where all our other nasty database framework code is.
[08:14] <BjornT> good morning
[08:15] <BjornT> spiv: how's it going with the distinct/order by fix?
[08:19] <spiv> BjornT: I'm about to come back to that, I'm sorting out twistd daemon running issues at the moment.
[08:20] <BjornT> cool
[09:41] <sabdfl> morning all
[09:42] <lifeless> hey
[09:43] <sabdfl> hey lifeless
[09:43] <sabdfl> anybody know if stub has tagged off rf for next weeks production yet?
[09:48] <lifeless> he hasn
[09:48] <lifeless> t
[09:48] <lifeless> hes flying
[09:49] <lifeless> we're currently running prod-25
[09:51] <sabdfl> ok cool
[10:22] <dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/bazaar-docs--devo--1.5: minimal update of locally-branching to fix typos (patch-1: robert.collins@canonical.com)
[10:22] <mdke> especially since that team is a sort of /win close
[10:22] <mdke> gah
[10:22] <mdke> sorry
[10:54] <carlos> morning
[11:00] <carlos> OSError: [Errno 17]  File exists: '/var/tmp/fatsam.test'
[11:00] <carlos> lifeless, around?
[11:01] <carlos> lifeless, pqm is again failing...
[11:02] <lifeless> rm rfed that dir
[11:04] <carlos> lifeless, thanks
[11:08] <carlos> lifeless, did you tried to protect with a login the pages I told you?
[11:08] <carlos> so Rosetta works again
[11:51] <lifeless> carlos: I don't know which pages you were telling me
[11:52] <lifeless> carlos: nor (offhand) how to make them authenticated only. Give me a patch and I'll apply it
[11:52] <carlos> lifeless, don't worry then, It's faster if we just merge the final patch I'm preparing atm
[12:12] <jamesh> carlos: I've put together a branch that lets you set the SQL statement_timeout from launchpad.conf
[12:13] <jamesh> carlos: it might help in catching bad queries in the future
[12:13] <carlos> jamesh, thank you!
[12:13] <carlos> I think we should activate it on staging by default
[12:13] <jamesh> yeah
[12:13] <carlos> before moving that into production
[12:14] <carlos> that will help a bit to prepare production
[12:16] <jamesh> it might make sense to have a long timeout on production 
[12:17] <jamesh> carlos: I get a nice "ProgrammingError: ERROR: canceling query due to user request SELECT ..." exception with a traceback with the patch too
[12:17] <jamesh> so we see the evil statement too
[12:18] <carlos> cool
[12:18] <carlos> jamesh, your rock!
[12:18] <carlos> jamesh, you rock!
[12:18] <carlos> :-P
[12:19] <jamesh> I didn't have to do anything to get that info in the traceback -- that comes from postgres and psycopg
[12:23] <carlos> jamesh, anyway, that will save us some debugging work
[12:23] <carlos> :-)
[12:41] <carlos> lifeless, I have the patch
[12:42] <carlos> lifeless, around?
[12:48] <carlos> jamesh, do you have sometime to review the patch?
[12:48] <carlos> it should be easy
[12:49] <carlos> it touches many files but it's just due a latest_submission -> latestsubmission rename
[12:49] <lifeless> isn't that against naming policy
[12:49] <lifeless> latestSubmission surely, or latest_submission
[12:49] <lifeless> latestsubmission is very hard to read
[12:49] <carlos> lifeless, it's a db field now
[12:50] <lifeless> anf ?
[12:50] <carlos> I'm using the same name the db has 
[12:50] <carlos> as mark wants
[12:50] <lifeless> why not give the db field a good name then ?
[12:50] <carlos> I added a field POFile.latestsubmission
[12:50] <carlos> lifeless, all field in DB are that way
[12:50] <carlos> datelastupdate
[12:50] <carlos> for instance
[12:51] <carlos> I'm just following that naming schema, that's all
[12:51] <carlos> lifeless, btw, could you kill 21916 process at chinstrap? my changes stalled PQM
[12:52] <lifeless> done
[12:52] <carlos> lifeless, thank you
[12:54] <lifeless> carlos: I'm really hesitant about that db field name
[12:54] <carlos> lifeless, dude, I can use the old name latest_submission, but that's against all current fields we have in our database
[12:56] <carlos> lifeless, only contraints contain '_' chars in their name
[12:56] <carlos> lifeless, all fields follow that name schema (foobar vs. foo_bar)
[12:56] <lifeless> carlos: I'm just looking for the spec on this
[12:56] <carlos> If you don't like them, I suppose you should request a global change
[12:57] <carlos> ok
[12:58] <carlos> oh, baz choose the worst moment to create a revision cache :-(
[12:59] <carlos> the mirror will take a while....
[01:00] <Kinnison> carlos: I find myself passing --no-cached to baz archive-mirror most of the time these days
[01:00] <lifeless> pep-8 is very clear on this, and we are pep8 conformant.
[01:01] <lifeless> Kinnison: please don't, you'll make your merges a lot slower for chinstrap
[01:01] <carlos> lifeless, I see your point
[01:01] <carlos> but this is a db field unrelated to pep-8
[01:01] <Kinnison> lifeless: I have mostly short branches and I let base-0 upload cached
[01:01] <Kinnison> lifeless: but I was in brazil and uploading cached revs was so painful it made me cry
[01:01] <carlos> lifeless, and Mark asked that  the sqlobject fields should have the same name we use in the db
[01:01] <lifeless> carlos: we are using this as a field name in python code : it is pep-8 related.
[01:01] <Kinnison> lifeless: I.E. circa an hour to upload a cachedrev
[01:01] <carlos> so we don't have problems to map those directly
[01:02] <lifeless> Kinnison: ack.
[01:02] <carlos> lifeless, please, talk with Mark
[01:02] <carlos> lifeless, we had all Rosetta db fields following pep-8 and mark asked us to move all them to lowercase
[01:02] <lifeless> carlos: I will. Problem is, I'm *backup DBA*. I'm not going to approve something I'm completely confident with.
[01:02] <lifeless> carlos: pep-8 is lowercase for fields, with _
[01:03] <carlos> lifeless, it's your choice, but take into account that then Rosetta will be fucked the whole weekend
[01:03] <lifeless> carlos: dude, don't make like this is my faut
[01:03] <lifeless> carlos: that really is not a good way to get what you want
[01:03] <carlos> lifeless, it's mark choice. I have the patch and I did it the way I was told to do it
[01:03] <carlos> I don't want to introduce an inconsistency with the rest of launchpad now
[01:04] <lifeless> fair enough.
[01:04] <carlos> lifeless, I can open a bug about this if you are happier that way
[01:04] <lifeless> what time does stub land
[01:05] <carlos> but rejecting this patch just because you don't agree with our current way to do it....
[01:05] <carlos> lifeless, Monday
[01:05] <lifeless> no
[01:05] <lifeless> he lands way before that
[01:05] <lifeless> hes been travelling for 18 hours laready
[01:05] <carlos> lifeless, he told me that will not be available until Monday
[01:06] <lifeless>  stub  15 Jul 17:17
[01:06] <carlos> That's UTC-4 (I think)
[01:07] <lifeless> 10 hours from now I think
[01:07] <carlos> yeah, something like that
[01:10] <lifeless> plus the bus trip
[01:11] <carlos> 2 hours
[01:11] <lifeless> can you mail me the 'baz diff rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0' 
[01:11] <carlos> or more...
[01:11] <lifeless> that will give me a starting point
[01:11] <carlos> sure
[01:12] <lifeless> I won't unnecessarily hold anything up - but to make changes in production, I'm wearing the channel-stub hat, and hes normally a nazi on style things - as I am when I am paying attention (I.e. I didn't write the code ;)).
[01:12] <lifeless> I leave in 9 hours
[01:13] <carlos> lifeless, that's 100% normal and a good thing
[01:13] <lifeless> so there are several things :
[01:13] <lifeless> I won't roll out something just before I go : if it hoses, it could take the whole system down.
[01:14] <lifeless> I won't roll out something that I have backup-dba-hat questions about
[01:14] <lifeless> I'll happily rollout non db stop-gap measures.
[01:15] <carlos> ok, so this patch will not be applied until stub's return, rigth?
[01:15] <lifeless> once you mail me the diff, I'll give you an answer.
[01:15] <carlos> anyway, at least if it could reach rocketfuel, that should be enough, so we can check it on staging
[01:15] <carlos> but it needs a script run to migrate the data
[01:15] <carlos> well, cache the data more than migrate
[01:16] <lifeless> I think the links to those pages should be made loggedin only or something for now
[01:16] <lifeless> as we could roll that out right away
[01:18] <carlos> just a second...
[01:20] <carlos> lifeless, do you want it as a patch using rocketfuel or just a diff is enough?
[01:20] <carlos> it's a one line change
[01:20] <carlos> from zope.Public to launchpad.Person
[01:20] <lifeless> what file
[01:21] <lifeless> I'm logged into production - what file
[01:21] <carlos> --- orig/lib/canonical/launchpad/zcml/distroreleaselanguage.zcml
[01:22] <carlos> +++ mod/lib/canonical/launchpad/zcml/distroreleaselanguage.zcml
[01:22] <carlos> @@ -22,7 +22,7 @@
[01:22] <carlos>    <browser:pages
[01:22] <carlos>      for="canonical.launchpad.interfaces.IDistroReleaseLanguage"
[01:22] <carlos> -    permission="zope.Public"
[01:22] <carlos> +    permission="launchpad.AnyPerson"
[01:22] <carlos>      class="canonical.launchpad.browser.DistroReleaseLanguageView">
[01:22] <carlos>      <browser:page
[01:22] <carlos>        name="+index"
[01:23] <lifeless> ok
[01:23] <lifeless> reenabling rosetta
[01:24] <lifeless> done
[01:24] <lifeless> please check rosetta is ok and those pages are now protected
[01:25] <carlos> doing it atm. Thanks
[01:25] <carlos> lifeless, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filewKixLt.html
[01:26] <carlos> that's the patch to solve it
[01:26] <carlos> the pages are protected now
[01:28] <lifeless> right. codewise its trivial
[01:28] <lifeless> the db field name though, I really am not up for oking - sorry
[01:28] <dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/dists--bazaar--1.5: new build (patch-41)
[01:29] <dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/hackerlab--devo--1.5: bugfix hashtree_fold to not segfault if the tree is empty (patch-9: robert.collins@canonical.com)
[01:30] <carlos> lifeless, ok, as I said I see your point, I don't agree with the rejection, but it's ok. Please, send an email to launchpad mailing list with your concerns
[01:30] <lifeless> well, we have a workaround ..
[01:30] <cprov> morning all
[01:30] <lifeless> so put your patch in the queue for normal approval (the dba queue and the normal review queue).
[01:30] <lifeless> Stub can ok or not, and I'll raise this issue in brazil.
[01:32] <carlos> lifeless, ok
[01:33] <carlos> but please, don't forget to talk about it
[01:33] <lifeless> I won't
[01:33] <carlos> lifeless, current solution has a problem if you visit the protected url without being authenticated
[01:33] <carlos> the +login redirects sends you to the wrong URL
[01:34] <carlos> hmmm and production is dead now
[01:34] <lifeless> ?
[01:34] <carlos> I got a proxy error
[01:35] <lifeless> looks fine
[01:35] <lifeless> works fine for me
[01:36] <carlos> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+lang/ca
[01:36] <carlos> try that URL
[01:36] <lifeless> system error
[01:37] <lifeless> theres and exception for you in /errors
[01:37] <lifeless> 2005-07-15T12:36:47 ERROR SiteError https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+lang
[01:37] <lifeless> Traceback (most recent call last):
[01:37] <lifeless>   File "/home/launchpad/dists/launchpad/utilities/../lib/zope/publisher/publish.py", line 135, in publish
[01:37] <lifeless>     object = request.traverse(object)
[01:37] <lifeless>   File "/home/launchpad/dists/launchpad/utilities/../lib/zope/publisher/browser.py", line 494, in traverse
[01:37] <lifeless>     ob = super(BrowserRequest, self).traverse(object)
[01:37] <lifeless>   File "/home/launchpad/dists/launchpad/utilities/../lib/zope/publisher/http.py", line 382, in traverse
[01:37] <lifeless>     ob = super(HTTPRequest, self).traverse(object)
[01:37] <lifeless>   File "/home/launchpad/dists/launchpad/utilities/../lib/zope/publisher/base.py", line 270, in traverse
[01:37] <lifeless>     subobject = publication.traverseName(
[01:37] <lifeless>   File "/home/launchpad/dists/launchpad/sourcecode/zope/src/zope/app/publication/publicationtraverse.py", line 56, in traverseName
[01:37] <lifeless>     ob2 = adapter.publishTraverse(request, nm)
[01:37] <lifeless>   File "/home/launchpad/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/launchpad/webapp/metazcml.py", line 428, in publishTraverse
[01:37] <lifeless>     traversed_to = self._function(self.context, request, name)
[01:37] <lifeless>   File "/home/launchpad/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/launchpad/browser/traversers.py", line 104, in traverse_distrorelease
[01:37] <lifeless>     lang = langset[langcode] 
[01:37] <lifeless>   File "/home/launchpad/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/launchpad/database/language.py", line 54, in __getitem__
[01:38] <lifeless>     raise NotFoundError, code
[01:38] <lifeless> NotFoundError: u'+index'
[01:38] <Kinnison> dude, use the nopaste for huge tracebacks
[01:38] <lifeless> Kinnison: thats not huge.
[01:38] <Kinnison> It has lines which wrap three times in a normal terminal
[01:38] <lifeless> Kinnison: eww, that must look fugly.
[01:39] <carlos> lifeless, that is from the problem I told you when you are not logged in and visit the problematic URL (+lang/ca)
[01:40] <lifeless> ah
[01:41] <carlos> lifeless, :-D
[01:41] <carlos> hmm, those pages where not so slow last time I used them...
[01:42] <lifeless> well there are four copies of it loading now
[01:42] <carlos> it's normal that google or yahoo break launchpad...
[01:42] <lifeless> 24298 | launchpad_prod |   25387 |      101 | launchpad  | SELECT POSubmission.id, POSubmission.origin, POSubmission.person, POSubmission.pluralform, POSubmission.datecreated, POSubmission.potranslation, POSubmission.pomsgset, POSubmission.validationstatus FROM POMsgSet, POSubmission WHERE  
[01:42] <lifeless>             POSubmiss | 2005-07-15 11:41:50.107465+00
[01:42] <lifeless>  24298 | launchpad_prod |   25388 |      101 | launchpad  | SELECT POSubmission.id, POSubmission.origin, POSubmission.person, POSubmission.pluralform, POSubmission.datecreated, POSubmission.potranslation, POSubmission.pomsgset, POSubmission.validationstatus FROM POMsgSet, POSubmission WHERE  
[01:42] <lifeless>             POSubmiss | 2005-07-15 11:41:52.882554+00
[01:42] <lifeless>  24298 | launchpad_prod |   25389 |      101 | launchpad  | SELECT POSubmission.id, POSubmission.origin, POSubmission.person, POSubmission.pluralform, POSubmission.datecreated, POSubmission.potranslation, POSubmission.pomsgset, POSubmission.validationstatus FROM POMsgSet, POSubmission WHERE  
[01:42] <carlos> that's why it's so slow...
[01:42] <dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/dists--bazaar--1.5: new build (patch-42)
[01:42] <lifeless>             POSubmiss | 2005-07-15 11:41:50.120606+00
[01:42] <lifeless>  24298 | launchpad_prod |   25390 |      101 | launchpad  | SELECT POSubmission.id, POSubmission.origin, POSubmission.person, POSubmission.pluralform, POSubmission.datecreated, POSubmission.potranslation, POSubmission.pomsgset, POSubmission.validationstatus FROM POMsgSet, POSubmission WHERE  
[01:42] <lifeless>             POSubmiss | 2005-07-15 11:41:50.117912+00
[01:43] <dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/hackerlab--devo--1.5: inline ar_size (patch-10: robert.collins@canonical.com)
[01:45] <lifeless> carlos: that proxy error is apache timing out the request
[01:45] <carlos> lifeless, so...
[01:46] <lifeless> its just plain too slow on production, but at least it won't be hung by google or yahoo, and normal users have all the other rosetaa pages working.
[01:47] <carlos> lifeless, I get the proxy error always now...
[01:48] <lifeless> those queries are still running
[01:48] <lifeless> they will clear up soon I imagine
[01:49] <carlos> ok
[01:58] <Kinnison> Lunchtastic
[01:58] <Kinnison> ciao dudes
[01:59] <carlos> Kinnison, later
[02:03] <carlos> lifeless, I think I blocked pqm again as the mirror was not done, could you kill the poimport.py process again? if it's not still there, just kill current run, it's my merge 
[02:04] <lifeless> I think those pages are still a problem
[02:04] <lifeless> perhaps we should make them admin only
[02:06] <carlos> lifeless, that will kill most Rosetta functionality, but it's better than disable Rosetta completely
[02:06] <carlos> so, go ahead, please
[02:06] <lifeless> well
[02:06] <lifeless> don't hit that page
[02:06] <lifeless> and I won't 
[02:06] <lifeless> if its still up when I go to sleep
[02:06] <lifeless> I'll leave it
[02:06] <lifeless> otherwise, yeah will limit
[02:07] <carlos> lifeless, it's still down
[02:07] <carlos> I was not able to edit a malone bug
[02:07] <carlos> and that's about 20 minutes with production down already
[02:08] <lifeless> carlos: its up now
[02:08] <lifeless> carlos: I bounced it right before I said I think the page is an issue still
[02:08] <carlos> ok ;-)
[02:26] <morgs> Is Launchpad down?
[02:29] <salgado> morgs, it seems so
[02:29] <morgs> again...
[02:29] <morgs> Launchpad's been taking lessons from PQM :(
[02:30] <salgado> and unfortunately is doing quite good. 
[02:40] <kiko-zzz> o/~ WHY DO LOVERS DIEEEEE o/~
[02:41] <kiko-zzz> lifeless, protect the page with Admin, is my recom.
[02:41] <jamesh> morning kiko
[02:41] <carlos> lifeless, I think it's time to move to launchpad.Admin
[02:41] <jamesh> kiko: so is Brazil the country much like Brazil the movie?
[02:43] <kiko> jamesh, no, it has nothing to do with the movie, actually!
[02:44] <kiko> you'll see shortly (I hope)
[02:44] <jamesh> should I bring tim tams?
[02:44] <kiko> you know we don't have them here
[02:44] <kiko> could you bring a jar or two of vegemite?
[02:44] <kiko> I'm all out
[02:44] <jamesh> I suppose so
[02:45] <kiko> tim tams are delish
[02:46] <BjornT_> hi kiko 
[02:46] <BjornT_> how's it going with BBA?
[02:46] <kiko> how do you do BjornT_ 
[02:46] <kiko> it hasn't gone much as you've seen 
[02:46] <kiko> I see jamesh reviewed your patch though
[02:46] <kiko> I was about to comment on it
[02:47] <kiko> I'll do BBA after it, apologies for a rough yesterday
[02:47] <BjornT_> yes, so i'd like to have the spec reviewed soon ;)
[02:50] <jamesh> it'd be nice if malone set In-Reply-To on mail it sent
[02:51] <jamesh> either handle it properly, or fake it like bugzilla does, marking every message for a bug as being in reply to a particular message that doesn't exist
[02:52] <kiko> BjornT_, wait for my reply to fix stuff
[02:52] <kiko> jamesh, there's a bug on that
[02:53] <BjornT_> jamesh: i'll probably fix that one today
[02:53] <BjornT_> kiko: ok, i was about to reply to it, but i'll go out for lunch instead then
[02:57] <kiko> BjornT_, sent
[03:03] <lifeless> jamesh: theres a bug on this
[03:04] <lifeless> oh bah, should read all scroll back
[03:05] <lifeless> carlos: done
[03:06] <lifeless> carlos: 
[03:06] <lifeless>   File "/home/launchpad/dists/launchpad/utilities/../lib/zope/app/rdb/__init__.py", line 283, in execute
[03:06] <lifeless>     return self.cursor.execute(operation)
[03:06] <lifeless> ProgrammingError: ERROR:  column potemplate.productrelease does not exist
[03:06] <lifeless> 2005-07-15T14:06:24 ERROR SiteError https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/rosetta/products/wordpress/wordpress-1.5
[03:06] <lifeless> Traceback (most recent call last):
[03:07] <lifeless> carlos: any ideas ?
[03:08] <jamesh> lifeless: bug 1415
[03:14] <carlos> lifeless, yeah, that bug is also know, it's related to the productrelease -> productseries change that was done last week
[03:14] <carlos> lifeless, I will look into it this weekend
[03:15] <jamesh> carlos: I wonder if using sqlbuilder expressions more often would help here?
[03:17] <carlos> jamesh, no idea I hadn't time to debug it and I didn't change that code so I don't know exactly where the problem is, I just know that potemplate.productrelease is not valid anymore
[03:18] <bradb> morning all
[03:18] <bradb> carlos: how long has your merge request been in pqm's queue?
[03:19] <carlos> if it's still there... It's my fault
[03:19] <carlos> lifeless, please, kill it
[03:22] <lifeless> dude, this is the third time
[03:23] <lifeless> killed
[03:23] <carlos> lifeless, third time?
[03:23] <carlos> lifeless, I only sent it twice
[03:24] <carlos> it's the third time I ask you for it, but I thought you didn't kill it before...
[03:24] <lifeless> yup, I did
[03:24] <carlos> :-?
[03:24] <carlos> lifeless, could be that pqm retried it ?
[03:24] <lifeless> shouldn't have
[03:25] <lifeless> may not have managed to kill it. lp test suite is quite ornerey sometimes
[03:25] <carlos> I only have two failure messages counting the one you just killed
[03:25] <carlos> lifeless, anyway, thank you.
[03:25] <carlos> lifeless, have a nice trip
[04:01] <bradb> right, looks like rocketfuel is off limits until next week then
[04:02] <kiko> fucking pqm
[04:02] <lifeless> kiko: whats up ?
[04:03] <bradb> is anyone looking into these librarian failures and whatever the "OSError: [Errno 17]  File exists: '/var/tmp/fatsam.test'" stuff is? there's the huge moral-killing brick wall in front of rocketfuel right now
[04:03] <lifeless> rm rf'd that dir again
[04:03] <lifeless> I thought jamesh was going to look into it
[04:03] <kiko> lifeless, what bradb said
[04:03] <kiko> I thought spiv had a /fix/ for that
[04:04] <lifeless> kiko: dude, thats not pqm sucking, thats launchpad
[04:04] <kiko> well
[04:04] <lifeless> its a fundamentally broken test suite that uses such names and doesn't cleanup/handle it.
[04:05] <kiko> you know when a patient goes to the doctor and the doctor tells him he has to shave his head to do the lobotomy?
[04:05] <lifeless> no
[04:05] <kiko> the patient doesn't say "fucking brain"
[04:05] <kiko> so PQM is a proxy for pain
[04:06] <lifeless> Patient Quotient Mangler
[04:06] <bradb> i blame both pqm and launchpad
[04:06] <bradb> i want pqm to be smart enough to reset itself when the merge request it processes goes awry, for example
[04:07] <salgado> I saw something in one of stuart's merge that would make the tests stop if it got staled for more than 10mins
[04:08] <salgado> oh maybe that's only for the problem with futexes, when there's no activity at all
[04:08] <lifeless> bradb: sure, and my spec will do that. However, that *wont* fix the problem like this fatsam thing
[04:08] <kiko> true
[04:09] <lifeless> salgado: yes, but that doesn't cover all code that runs, it needs to be done in pqm.
[04:10] <bradb> i haven't played enough with usermode linux or chroot jails (at least to achieve this kind of thing) to know if it would be fairly easy to use one of those options as a little box inside which pqm can run its merge requests.
[04:10] <kiko> bradb, and then nuke it after running?
[04:10] <lifeless> bradb: theres a cost to that sort of setup, and it /still/ won't cover everything.
[04:10] <bradb> kiko: yes, complete reset
[04:11] <lifeless> baz has had /none/ of the frustration launchpad has had with pqm, its test suite is reliable.
[04:11] <bradb> because, realistically, this kind of thing will *always* happen for projects like launchpad.
[04:11] <kiko> lifeless, it's also considerably fewer moving parts
[04:12] <lifeless> fixing PQM like you are agitating for is fixing the symptom - and its a reasonable thing to do, but its not the thing we should be aiming at.
[04:12] <morgs> right - merges will still not go through, they'll just do it faster
[04:12] <kiko> bradb has a point that any complex test suite may benefit from running in a clean environment
[04:12] <lifeless> kiko: true, but its enough LOC to demonstrate its possible to do it reliably.
[04:13] <kiko> the problem isn't the LOC
[04:13] <lifeless> kiko: I haven't argued that point.
[04:13] <kiko> it's the amount of very different moving parts that need to be tested in an environment we have no control over
[04:13] <kiko> it's like building sand castles with chopsticks
[04:13] <lifeless> kiko: consider the things that can go wrong, and what a chroot brings. postgresql could be wrong, python or dependencies can be wrong, tests can use hard coded paths and not clean them on startup. tests can hang, tests can deadlock.
[04:14] <lifeless> kiko: we have complete control over the environment.
[04:14] <kiko> you aussies do
[04:14] <kiko> a developer writing tests can only fix-n-run
[04:14] <lifeless> uh,
[04:14] <kiko> maybe elmo and you is a better classification of who can
[04:14] <lifeless> I have no more control than you over the chinstrap environment
[04:15] <lifeless> than you. elmo does it all at *our* direction.
[04:15] <kiko> I can't kill PQM or restart it
[04:15] <lifeless> true, but the PqmRobustness spec will address that. a chroot won't.
[04:15] <kiko> a chroot would address a different part of the problem
[04:15] <lifeless> I'm not saying a chroot is bad - just that I think its a waste of time at this point.
[04:15] <kiko> and there are many sides to a problem
[04:15] <kiko> fair enough
[04:16] <lifeless> we've only had one bug that a chroot would influence - the fatsam.test stale dir bug.
[04:16] <kiko> it would be useful to see how many different problems ... aham.
[04:16] <lifeless> we should just fix that.
[04:16] <kiko> are you sure about that?
[04:16] <lifeless> yes.
[04:16] <kiko> okay.
[04:16] <kiko> now launchpad is dead
[04:16] <lifeless> its the only cleanup I've ever had to do between test runs since the db autosetup was done 8+ months ago.
[04:17] <kiko> lifeless, did you change the permission to Admin for the problematic pages?
[04:17] <lifeless> kiko: for the ones that carlos suggested, yes
[04:17] <kiko> well, it hung once again :-(
[04:17] <lifeless> its that f*cking query again. 
[04:17] <kiko> can you tell me which pages were last visited, lifeless?
[04:18] <lifeless> kiko: 127.0.0.1 - Anonymous [15/Jul/2005:14:51:10 +0100]  "GET /++vh++https:launchpad.ubuntu.com:443/++/@@/launchpad.js HTTP/1.1" 200 16157 "https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/rosetta" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it-IT; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 Firefox/1.0.4"
[04:18] <lifeless> 127.0.0.1 - Anonymous [15/Jul/2005:14:51:11 +0100]  "GET /++vh++https:launchpad.ubuntu.com:443/++/@@/launchpad.png HTTP/1.1" 200 5403 "https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/rosetta" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it-IT; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 Firefox/1.0.4"
[04:18] <lifeless> 127.0.0.1 - Anonymous [15/Jul/2005:14:51:11 +0100]  "GET /++vh++https:launchpad.ubuntu.com:443/++/@@/defaultFavicon.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 1289 "" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it-IT; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 Firefox/1.0.4"
[04:18] <lifeless> 127.0.0.1 - Anonymous [15/Jul/2005:14:51:11 +0100]  "GET /++vh++https:launchpad.ubuntu.com:443/++/++resource++info_icon.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 1274 "https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/rosetta" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it-IT; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 Firefox/1.0.4"
[04:18] <lifeless> 127.0.0.1 - Anonymous [15/Jul/2005:14:51:11 +0100]  "GET /++vh++https:launchpad.ubuntu.com:443/++/++resource++product_icon.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 1229 "https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/rosetta" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it-IT; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 Firefox/1.0.4"
[04:18] <lifeless> 127.0.0.1 - 16812 [15/Jul/2005:14:51:12 +0100]  "GET /++vh++https:launchpad.ubuntu.com:443/++/people/filoc HTTP/1.1" 200 11839 "https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.9) Gecko/20050711 Firefox/1.0.5"
[04:18] <lifeless> 127.0.0.1 - Anonymous [15/Jul/2005:14:51:12 +0100]  "GET /++vh++https:launchpad.ubuntu.com:443/++/++resource++bullet.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 322 "https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/rosetta" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it-IT; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 Firefox/1.0.4"
[04:18] <lifeless> 127.0.0.1 - 16812 [15/Jul/2005:14:51:16 +0100]  "GET /++vh++https:launchpad.ubuntu.com:443/++/people/ubuntumembers HTTP/1.1" 200 5512 "https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/filoc" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.9) Gecko/20050711 Firefox/1.0.5"
[04:18] <lifeless> 127.0.0.1 - 16812 [15/Jul/2005:14:51:35 +0100]  "GET /++vh++https:launchpad.ubuntu.com:443/++/people/filoc/+editsshkey HTTP/1.1" 200 5274 "https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/filoc" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.9) Gecko/20050711 Firefox/1.0.5"
[04:18] <lifeless> 127.0.0.1 - 16812 [15/Jul/2005:15:08:54 +0100]  "GET /++vh++https:launchpad.ubuntu.com:443/++/people/filoc/+codesofconduct HTTP/1.1" 200 4783 "https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/filoc/+editsshkey" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.9) Gecko/20050711 Firefox/1.0.5"
[04:19] <lifeless> I've revoked access to pomsgset again.
[04:19] <lifeless> sorry, but its the only reliable way right now, I fly in 8 hours
[04:19] <lifeless> stub arrives in abut 6
[04:21] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=SteveA]  Closes #1212; Clean up an new implementations on Distro/Distrorelease bits. (patch-2105: daniel.debonzi@canonical.com)
[04:29] <lifeless> kiko: night all. if lp really dies HARD I'll be home and awake from 6am to 7am GMT+1000 - sms or ring me then and I'll resurrect it. Or grab elmo who is in the right tz at the moment.
[04:29] <kiko> okidok
[04:30] <lifeless> but I need to sleep now, or I'll be dead tomorrow
[04:30] <kiko> cprov, why do you use GPGKeySet but GpgHandler?
[04:31] <kiko> you should use GPG or Gpg consistently
[04:31] <kiko> rs=kiko on fixing that
[04:32] <cprov> kiko: IMHO, GpgHandler is correct camelcase name, I did it, GPGKey... exists before me. Are you sure we should perform this huge renaming ?
[04:34] <kiko> is it huge?
[04:34] <kiko> you should have followed whatever case was being used
[04:34] <kiko> I think yes, we need to rename it.
[04:35] <cprov> kiko: yes, it is, but if you stronlgy recommend, I can do
[04:36] <kiko> 19 files
[04:36] <cprov> kiko: right, noted in my queue ETA weekend, maximun monday morning -> rename GPGKey*, following the correct CamelCase patern "GpgHandler"
[04:37] <kiko> it's not terribly urgent but it's going to avoid being yelled at
[04:37] <cprov> kiko: correct, thanks  ... 
[04:38] <salgado> you can do this and read the diff/run the tests to see if something went wrong: sed -i 's/GPGKey/GpgKey/g'
[04:38] <cprov> kiko: right, it does not receive high priority ;), indeed it will help
[04:39] <kiko> salgado, do you think Gpg is better than GPG?
[04:39] <cprov> salgado: -> regexp-fu in action 
[04:40] <cprov> kiko: salgado, my vote is GpgKey  syntax, you ?
[04:40] <salgado> kiko, I don't care either
[04:41] <kiko> maybe stevea would care
[04:41] <kiko> or Kinnison 
[04:41] <Kinnison> GpgKey is a WikiWord, GPG is kinda more "correct"
[04:41] <Kinnison> GnuPrivacyGuardKey
[04:41] <Kinnison> :-)
[04:43] <cprov> Kinnison: good point, GPGkey, GPGkeySet, GPGHandler ... you change my mind 
[05:09] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=kiko]  obsolete absolute_url for IBug and IBugTask. replace with canonical_url. (patch-2106: brad.bollenbach@canonical.com)
[05:14] <jblack> cprov: I have your access point. I also have a second, used one for you, and a third used one if you'd like it
[05:15] <jblack> The brand new one is an 801.11/bg. The two used ones are b only.
[05:15] <cprov> jblack: dude, what's up ? 3 ?  what do you have in mind ?
[05:16] <kiko> jblack, I want one of cprov doesn't :-)
[05:16] <cprov> jblack:  ehe are they all gift for us, poor brazillians
[05:18] <cprov> kiko -> stealling candy from kids
[05:19] <jblack> I've owed cprov the bg since oxford, when he loaned me enough money to get home. 
[05:20] <jblack> The other ones I don't need (I moved to g myself last week) any more, so the two b's that I have aren't strictly necessary. 
[05:20] <cprov> jblack: I'm going to lunch now, you are welcome in my house with or without  the APs, I don't care, this is an old story, man 
[05:20] <jblack> You're getting the bg. You don't have a choice. =) 
[05:22] <cprov> jblack: ok, thanks man ... but remember it is not extrictly necessary to have nice time here. 
[05:58] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fix the edition of archuser/ircid/jabberid and allow people to delete them. I'll work on this next week, to allow people to add multiple archusers, ircids and wikinames, so this is mainly a workaround until I get things working properly. r=kiko (patch-2107: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
[06:13] <Mez> can someone explain thekarma system to me/
[06:14] <kiko-fud> sure
[06:14] <kiko-fud> Mez, actions in launchpad credit you with karma based on fixed points attributed to specific action types
[06:14] <Mez> what type of actions?
[06:18] <Mez> actions that I make, or actions someone makes against me
[06:19] <kiko-fud> actions you perform in the system
[06:19] <jblack> I wonder why my karma is for all the products I've created, described, imported... :) 
[06:20] <Mez> Tis ok, the other day I had 56
[06:20] <Mez> 5 *
[06:20] <Mez> I thought that was cause I was a member
[06:20] <Mez> looked and I ahve 25 :P
[06:22] <Mez> hmm
[06:22] <Mez> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/martin-sourceguru/+edit
[06:22] <Mez> that shows the old wiki Address
[06:23] <kiko-fud> how odd
[06:23] <kiko-fud> your karma decreased?
[06:23] <Mez> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/martin-sourceguru/+edit
[06:23] <Mez> no - it was oringlla 5 - I hit the 6 by accident
[06:23] <kiko-fud> oh
[06:23] <kiko-fud> heh
[06:23] <Mez> when is calendar going to be available for groups?
[06:24] <kiko-fud> good question
[06:24] <kiko-fud> Mez, can you file a bug on that please?
[06:24] <Mez> the wiki or the calendar thing?
[06:25] <Mez> where do i file bugs?
[06:26] <Mez> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/products/launchpad/+FILEBUG ??
[06:26] <Mez> without caps
[06:30] <Mez> bug #1462
[06:34] <kiko-fud> yep
[06:34] <kiko-fud> thanks
[07:43] <jblack> Ok. last chance to reach me before I go offline
[07:46] <cprov> jblack: have a nice trip, bring me US candies if you can ;) 
[07:47] <jblack> um, what kind? 
[07:50] <jblack> cprov: ? 
[07:52] <cprov> jblack: any kind ;) nothing special, must be extremely SWEET 
[07:52] <jblack> ok. a pile of the sweetest candy I can find. 
[07:52] <jblack> see you guys on the flip side. :) 
[07:55] <cprov> jblack: see you 
[08:36] <bradb> mpt, where art thou?
[08:37] <bradb> kiko-fud: so, malone menus. the information i've been given about what menus Malone should have doesn't seem to have much been thought through. i wonder if you could offer some insight?
[08:38] <bradb> kiko-fud: for example, i've been told to have three menu options: "%s Bugs", "Report a Bug" and "Show Reports". clicking on "Show Reports" is supposed to take you to the Advanced Search screen. but search results are supposed to highlight the "Show Reports" tab as well.
[08:39] <bradb> this begs the question: if i do a "Simple" search, and suddenly find myself to have jumped under the "Show Reports" tab, how do i then go to the advanced search screen? :)
[08:40] <bradb> i'm wondering if "%s Bugs" should maybe just be a keywords/bug id search box (no search results), and then create another "Advanced Search" tab which just shows all the widgets, and then have the target of those be the "Show Reports" tab. (nothing fancy at first though, this small "redesign" would basically involve a small change to the logic so that no results are shown the very first time you land on a +bugs screen)
[08:41] <bradb> otoh, maybe i'm just completely overlooking something in the menu layouts and not realizing it
[08:43] <bradb> (btw, i've already broken simple and advanced into two screens on this branch and removed that horrible Simple/Advanced button
[08:43] <bradb> )
[08:48] <kiko-fud> ah, cool
[08:48] <kiko-fud> well
[08:48] <kiko-fud> I've been thinking about malone menus today as well
[08:49] <kiko-fud> I haven't managed to find a good solution for the actions portlet yet :-(
[08:49] <kiko-fud> otoh the menus don't even support the standalone bug page -- nice, eh? 
[08:49] <kiko-fud> eu volto
[08:49] <kiko-fud> (iow, I'll be back)
[08:49] <kiko-fud> mpool in-town
[08:51] <kiko-fud> bradb, would you have a heart-attack if I selectively added the word "task" back to a portlet and a page?
[08:51] <kiko-fud> we need a name for task
[08:51] <kiko-fud> we're just working around it for the moment
[08:51] <bradb> we totally do, you're right
[08:52] <bradb> if it were called "bug", what problems would that create?
[08:53] <bradb> kiko-fud: and yes, i know, i'm hurtin' about the fact that the menu system doesn't even really help the standalone bug page too :/
[08:53] <bradb> die actions portlet die
[09:44] <bradb> salgado: btw, i had to halt work on the malone menu branch again (blocked on mpt's response to launchpad@ email), so if you do happen to get a chance to review code today, i've put a branch in your queue with small usability fixes and code cleanup
[10:01] <lifeless> hows lp ?
[10:10] <salgado> lifeless, seems fine
[10:10] <salgado> bradb, ok, if I have some time I'll look at it
[10:19] <lifeless> Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no attribute 'cache'" in <bound method Transaction.__del__ of <sqlobject.dbconnection.Transaction object at 0xb6d7f80c>> ignored
[10:19] <lifeless> spiv ^^^ comments ?
[10:27] <salgado> bradb, ping
[10:31] <bradb> salgado: pong
[10:32] <salgado> so, in all these blank lines you're just removing spaces?
[10:33] <bradb> yes
[10:33] <bradb> the delete-trailing-whitespace emacs macro ;)
[10:34] <salgado> and another thing: it's usually a good idea to coordinate with some reviewer when you're going to do a change like this, that is, that touches a lot of files but is easy to review
[10:35] <salgado> this way you avoid some conflicts by getting your branch reviewed soon
[10:35] <bradb> ah, ok, noted for the future
[10:42] <lifeless> if its just whitespspace, it should be trivial
[10:42] <salgado> no, it's not just whitespaces. there's some other small fixes
[10:51] <kiko-fud> bradb, the problem with calling the task a bug is twofold
[10:51] <kiko-fud> first, there is no way of telling what page the user needs to go to
[10:52] <kiko-fud> the uhh bug page with comments 
[10:52] <kiko-fud> and the bug page without comments
[10:52] <kiko-fud> the second problem is that links are ambiguous
[10:52] <kiko-fud> bug #1 ...
[10:53] <salgado> bradb, what's the reason to use the default-editform.pt as the pagetemplate for the +duplicate page, instead of creating a new one and using something like metal:use-macro="context/@@launchpad_editform/editform"?
[10:53] <bradb> salgado: because it's the easier, no-work solution
[10:54] <bradb> if there were a benefit to having created a whole template specifically for that, i would have though
[10:54] <kiko-fud> being able to put a <title>?
[10:54] <salgado> you could have used different pagetitles
[10:54] <kiko-fud> that's only one of the benefits
[10:54] <bradb> that's just a nasty bug in the pagetitle machinery
[10:54] <bradb> that SteveA said he was going to fix yesterday
[10:55] <bradb> in fact, we used to have a way to do it, but it got removed, according to SteveA
[10:55] <kiko-fud> bradb, are you against re-adding the task word?
[10:55] <kiko-fud> I'm okay with using something else, but... what? :)
[10:55] <bradb> kiko-fud: not really. i worry about a normal person being able to work with that word though. but it's hard to say at this stage if it will be confusing or not.
[10:56] <bradb> the word bug "sighting" has gone through my mind a few times, but, meh
[10:56] <kiko-fud> bradb, I added a <span class="explain"> to the bug pag and tweaked it a bit
[10:56] <kiko-fud> page
[10:56] <kiko-fud> it might not be a full dud
[10:56] <kiko-fud> bradb, if I commit this, would you be interested in pulling my branch and seeing what you think?
[10:56] <bradb> kiko-fud: sure, but won't have time today, i don't think. is that ok?
[10:57] <kiko-fud> you suck!
[10:57] <bradb> (i.e. is monday ok?)
[10:57] <bradb> !
[10:57] <bradb> how big is it?
[10:57] <bradb> and what does it fix?
[10:57] <kiko-fud> it's the same tree you looked at before, remember?
[10:57] <bradb> oh, i didn't know you were talking about that branch
[10:57] <kiko-fud> yeah
[10:57] <kiko-fud> baby cakes
[10:58] <bradb> sure, i could look at it
[10:58] <kiko-fud> you rock!
[10:58] <bradb> :P
[10:58] <kiko-fud> let me diff, commit and mirror
[10:58] <kiko-fud> I'll ping you
[10:58] <bradb> sounds good
[10:58] <kiko-fud> you're much better than PQM
[10:58] <kiko-fud> I mean
[10:58] <kiko-fud> like 100000x much better
[10:58] <kiko-fud> like PQM if PQM was a naked waitress
[10:58] <bradb> much better than pqm eh? wow, i'm *honoured*. :P
[11:06] <salgado> bradb, oh, you have r=salgado with that changes, of course
[11:06] <salgado> forgot to say in the email
[11:07] <bradb> cool, thanks. just finishing up the one-bugmail-per-recipient patch.
[11:12] <kiko> bradb, count-down to merge
[11:12] <bradb> t-minus 30 mins...
[11:12] <bradb> er, are your changes committed?
[11:14] <jblack> Flight was canceled
[11:14] <jblack> Somebody had the gal to schedule a hurricane during my flight days
[11:15] <kiko> jblack, no joke?
[11:15] <jblack> No joke
[11:16] <kiko> when is it going to happen?
[11:16] <jblack> THey booked me through a different airport tomorrow.
[11:16] <jblack> But the eastern us is hosed, because of the remnants of that hurricane. 
[11:16] <kiko> that's foobed
[11:16] <kiko> can you please tell me your rebooking date? 
[11:16] <jblack> Yeah. 
[11:16] <kiko> I need to cancel your pickup /now/
[11:17] <jblack> Saturday: Flight 4614 AVP (13:23) -> Atlanta (15:40)
[11:17] <kiko> and from atlanta?
[11:18] <jblack> Saturday: Flight 105  Atlanta (19:45) -> GRU (Sunday, 06:05)
[11:18] <jblack> kiko: You should have already canceled my pickup. :) 
[11:18] <jblack> Remember? Fadm is picking me up and I was going to spend saturday night in Sao Paulo? 
[11:19] <kiko> ah. true.
[11:19] <jblack> (fadm for fadmthiago. His first name is actually Thiago) 
[11:20] <kiko> yeah, thiago macieira
[11:20] <kiko> his surname means appletree
[11:20] <jblack> So, the good news is I should still get there on time. The bad news is that Eastern US flights are a mess, and there's a chance that there may be further problems. 
[11:20] <kiko> yeah
[11:20] <jblack> (on time for work) 
[11:21] <kiko> hope for snow
[11:21] <kiko> martin's safely here already
[11:21] <jblack> Hope hope hope. Closing dulles & Atlanta (I imagine reagan too) .... <shudder> 
[11:21] <kiko> wow
[11:21] <kiko> bradb, committed and mirrorred
[11:22] <kiko> launchpad--devel--0--patch-84
[11:22] <kiko> or christian.reis@canonical.com--lozenge/launchpad--devel--0
[11:22] <kiko> pull it and smile
[11:29] <bradb> heh, thansk
[11:30] <bradb> kiko: so, just to be clear, will it be sufficient for me to look just at only launchpad--devel--0--patch-84?
[11:31] <bradb> s/just //
[11:34] <kiko> bradb, nah, look at everything, it's  good for you
[11:36] <bradb> ok :)
[11:44] <jblack> Heh. I get a booby prize though. 
[11:44] <jblack> bradb: battlestar galactica tonight
[11:46] <bradb> ?
[11:47] <bradb> er, i meant "few" not "view"...anyway
[11:58] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Minor template fixes and import corrections; helps bug 1153 (patch-2108: christian.reis@canonical.com)
[12:05] <kiko> wooo!
[12:05] <kiko> pqm loves me