[12:07] <mdke> lets go then
[12:11] <mdke> hey burgs
[12:11] <mdke> -meeting
[12:27] <mdke> Burgundavia!
[12:27] <Burgundavia> salut
[12:27] <Burgundavia> right now?
[12:27] <mdke> yes
[12:27] <mdke> 25 mins in
[12:27] <mdke> ;)
[01:19] <Burgundavia> someone want to check over my rewrite of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AudioCDCreation
[01:24] <Burgundavia> what does this do? = [Dashboard] : Firefox =
[01:25] <shane__> I am having trouble with installing a linksys usb adapter. can anyone help? Please.
[01:25] <mdke> you are a LEGEND
[01:25] <mgalvin> Burgundavia, i'll take a peek, i gotta read the log for the meeting anyway
[01:25] <mdke> shane__, #ubuntu can help
[01:25] <mdke> Burgundavia, i came across that page today and noticed it was out of date. Link it on UserDocumentation pls :) and thanks!
[01:25] <shane__> I have tried there, but too much chatter and nobody responds.
[01:26] <shane__> I have followed the wiki wireless instructions.
[01:26] <mdke> shane__, i am no expert, but I have found "dmesg" very useful for troubleshooting wireless
[01:27] <shane__> what is dmesg?
[01:27] <mdke> shane__, its a command
[01:27] <shane__> I have only been running linux for 3 days.
[01:27] <mdke> shane__, it tells you what is going on deep within your system ;)
[01:27] <mdke> ah ok
[01:27] <mdke> if I were you I would try the forum for help, and tell them what steps you have followed
[01:28] <shane__> I see. 
[01:32] <shane__> I ran dmesg and it sure puts out a lot of info.
[01:33] <mdke> ;)
[01:33] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AcrobatHowTo
[01:33] <Burgundavia> rewritten
[01:33] <shane__> I found where it configured my usb thumb drive.
[01:33] <mdke> Burgundavia, YOU ARE A GOD
[01:34] <Burgundavia> most of the docs on the wiki suck
[01:34] <Burgundavia> they are too long
[01:34] <Burgundavia> look at the diff for the acrobat one
[01:35] <shane__> Where do you go for good docs?
[01:35] <rob^> Burgundavia, on AudioCDcreation, Horay does, Gnomebaker.
[01:35] <Burgundavia> gnomebaker doesn't appear to be in the hoary repos anymore
[01:35] <Burgundavia> can you still install it?
[01:35] <rob^> I have it installed..
[01:35] <Burgundavia> packages.ubuntu.com says no
[01:36] <mdke> shane__, forum, wiki, ubuntuguide.org
[01:36] <Burgundavia> can you do "apt-cache -policy gnomebaker" for me?
[01:36] <rob^> its in universe
[01:36] <Burgundavia> hmm,that is odd
[01:36] <Burgundavia> must have messed up my search
[01:37] <rob^> rob@rob:~$ apt-cache policy gnomebaker
[01:37] <rob^> gnomebaker:
[01:37] <rob^>   Installed: 0.3-3
[01:37] <rob^>   Candidate: 0.3-3
[01:37] <rob^>   Version table:
[01:37] <rob^>  *** 0.3-3 0
[01:37] <rob^>         500 http://au.archive.ubuntu.com hoary/universe Packages
[01:37] <Burgundavia> done
[01:37] <rob^>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[01:37] <Burgundavia> fixed it
[01:37] <rob^> sorry for pasting
[01:37] <rob^> np
[01:37] <rob^> thanks
[01:51] <Burgundavia> can I merge https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserGuideAddingRepositories into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesHowto
[01:51] <Burgundavia> why did these NewUser stuff appear anyway?
[01:51] <mdke> Burgundavia, afraid not
[01:51] <mdke> that is their own initiative
[01:51] <mdke> they are writing a version of the ubuntuguide.org
[01:52] <Burgundavia> gah
[01:52] <Burgundavia> why?
[01:52] <Burgundavia> I am fixing AddingRepos right now
[01:52] <mdke> there is a new team called "New User Network"
[01:52] <Burgundavia> what?
[01:52] <mdke> it is even a team in launchpad
[01:52] <Burgundavia> why all these duplication of effot?
[01:53] <mdke> you don't wanna know my view about it
[01:53] <mdke> its not repeatable
[01:53] <Burgundavia> indeed
[01:53] <Burgundavia> can I be bold then?
[01:53] <mdke> Burgundavia, not easily, the team has been approved by the CC
[01:53] <Burgundavia> what????
[01:53] <Burgundavia> excuse me?
[01:53] <mdke> yeah
[01:53] <mdke> its an official team
[01:54] <Burgundavia> that is total and complete crack
[01:54] <Burgundavia> I can see a new team,but more sources?
[01:54] <Burgundavia> s/sources/docs
[01:54] <mdke> agreed
[01:55] <mdke> the team essentially afaics has the purpose of "officialising" people who help in irc and on the forum and on the wiki
[01:55] <Burgundavia> ah
[01:55] <mdke> which no doubt makes them feel cool
[01:55] <Burgundavia> that is fine
[01:55] <mdke> but which caused a division of effort
[01:55] <Burgundavia> we don't need more wiki docs because of it
[01:55] <jsgotangco> its crack
[01:55] <Burgundavia> the ubotu in #ubuntu now points to these NewUser guide crap
[01:55] <mdke> yes
[01:55] <jsgotangco> it used to be NewbieGods
[01:56] <Burgundavia> I pulled jasoncohnen in here the other day to talk about it
[01:56] <Burgundavia> but I ended up not being here when he did show up
[01:57] <Burgundavia> just pinged him again
[01:57] <mdke> i've talked to mez and Seveas a little about it
[01:57] <mdke> it has had certain undesirable side effects
[01:57] <Burgundavia> yes
[01:58] <mdke> one of which is the duplication of documentation
[01:58] <Burgundavia> it sould be clear that documentation in the wiki is our preview
[01:58] <Burgundavia> if the NewUser people want to help in #ubuntu and the forums, and point to our docs, that is fine
[01:58] <Burgundavia> ok, I have removed the non-graphical ways of adding repos from AddingRepos
[02:00] <mdke> Burgundavia, see also http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=47739
[02:03] <Burgundavia> read it
[02:03] <Burgundavia> hmm
[02:03] <Burgundavia> people seem to misunderstand why we don't like ubuntuguide.org
[02:04] <mdke> well i'm not surprised
[02:04] <mdke> there is not enough love going on, and too much division
[02:04] <mdke> people are too quick to say negative stuff instead of explaining patiently
[02:04] <Burgundavia> I am going to write a reply there
[02:04] <mdke> okies
[02:05] <Burgundavia> as my name carries the "ubuntu doc team" beside it, it should have some weight
[02:05] <mdke> heh
[02:08] <mdke> look forward to your reply
[02:08] <mdke> i gtg to bed
[02:08] <jsgotangco> nite
[02:08] <jsgotangco> i gotta start work
[02:08] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:09] <jsgotangco> ill just check the log later
[02:09] <jsgotangco> and make a summary
[02:09] <jsgotangco> update DocteamProjects as well
[02:15] <jsgotangco> brb
[02:18] <Burgundavia> hey
[02:18] <Burgundavia> I am little concerned about what ubotu is spitting out
[02:18] <Burgundavia> that ntfs thing really concerns me
[02:18] <Burgundavia> you offer a script without explanation
[02:18] <cafuego> Howso? Much like a wiki, people can add stuff if it works for them.
[02:19] <Burgundavia> what I would love if you would point to a wiki page that we (the doc team) can edit
[02:19] <Burgundavia> the ubotu is a closed thing to us
[02:20] <cafuego> Burgundavia: Well, you can always modify the factoid and point it at a wiki page, that's a trivially easy command. '/msg ubotu no, <keyword> is <new explanation>'
[02:20] <Burgundavia> can I suggest an idea for the bot?
[02:20] <rob^> Burgundavia, yes people are filling it full of crap
[02:20] <Burgundavia> only allow links to ubuntu wiki pages
[02:20] <Burgundavia> anything else gets tossed
[02:21] <rob^> like yesterday, someone added !gay
[02:21] <Burgundavia> indeed
[02:21] <cafuego> Burgundavia: That's not very practical, there are other explanations for things (acronyms etc) that don't need wiki links.
[02:21] <Burgundavia> I think I might not have explained myself very well
[02:21] <cafuego> Burgundavia: A bit of vigilance by responsible adults can keep most crap out of the bot.
[02:21] <Burgundavia> if you add a link, make it it a wiki link
[02:22] <Burgundavia> non-linked explanations are fine
[02:22] <Burgundavia> such as the !usrepos one
[02:22] <cafuego> ie: check for http and if not wiki then trash it?
[02:22] <rob^> Burgundavia, maybe an acl is needed for the bot, or an approval process?
[02:22] <Burgundavia> check if not ubuntu.com or ubuntlinux.org
[02:22] <Burgundavia> becuase bugzilla links are ok to
[02:22] <cafuego> rob^: whoa, who's going to code that? ;-)
[02:22] <Burgundavia> such as for the usrepos one
[02:23] <rob^> cafuego, well, it would solve a lot
[02:23] <Burgundavia> I have played with a few bots that have acls
[02:23] <cafuego> Burgundavia: My main reason for this one is that I can fetch and search package listings for files/depends.
[02:23] <Burgundavia> cafuego, that is very cool
[02:23] <Burgundavia> and i like that
[02:23] <Burgundavia> just be careful where you point to, and with what explanations
[02:24] <cafuego> Additional features is all very well, but my knowledge of perl is fairly negligable.
[02:24] <Burgundavia> exactly why we don't recommend ubuntguide.org anymore
[02:24] <cafuego> I'm sure they're ready to shoot me on #perl ;-)
[02:24] <Burgundavia> thanks for running it
[02:24] <cafuego> I'll be quite happy to check if I can do some ACL thingie for adding URIs, but it might be a while.
[02:24] <Burgundavia> just got to be careful about what we hand out
[02:25] <rob^> probably, but cool never the less
[02:25] <Burgundavia> can you post a dump of what the bot responds to somwhere?
[02:25] <cafuego> I did manage to add a !wiki command
[02:25] <Burgundavia> say a wikipage for something?
[02:26] <cafuego> Burgundavia: Just a CSV dump? I could do you an RSS feed of all factoids... there's a web interface on http://ubuntu.cc.com.au/ wtm.
[02:26] <Burgundavia> no, the web interface is fine
[02:27] <rob^> shame we cant edit them from there
[02:27] <rob^> :)
[02:27] <cafuego> rob^: That's trivial to implement actually ;-)
[02:28] <rob^> cool
[02:28] <rob^> with acl though?
[02:28] <cafuego> rob^: My normal fee is $165/h ;-)
[02:28] <rob^> heh
[02:29] <rob^> couldnt help it
[02:31] <Burgundavia> all right
[02:32] <rob^> well I better be off, got to do the shopping
[02:34] <Burgundavia> hmm, I have issues with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserGuideMultimedia
[02:34] <Burgundavia> but no idea how to fix it
[02:34] <rob^> I have issues with nug
[02:35] <Burgundavia> new user guide should cease to exist
[02:36] <Burgundavia> but now ubotu doesn't point to NewUserGuideAddingRepos CLI stuff
[02:36] <Burgundavia> it now points to the graphical one
[02:36] <rob^> help.ubuntulinux.org should be good
[02:36] <Burgundavia> yes
[02:36] <Burgundavia> coming soon, RSN
[02:37] <Burgundavia> bbl
[02:37] <rob^> k
[02:37] <rob^> same
[02:47] <cafuego> (badly)
[02:49] <rob^> cafuego, I think I can scrape together $5, that will give you 2 minutes or so to implement the changes :)
[02:49] <rob^> you said trivial..
[02:49] <cafuego> rob^: yes, it does mean anyone else can also edit the factoids ;-)
[02:50] <rob^> i might have another $5 for an acl.
[02:50] <rob^> :P
[02:56] <cafuego> with hilights
[03:24] <Burgundavia> hey
[03:24] <Burgundavia> the meeting was finished
[03:25] <Burgundavia> but I had some queries regarding the NewUserGuide stuff
[03:25] <jasoncohen> lol, i always get the message too late
[03:25] <jasoncohen> ok, shoot
[03:25] <rob^> heh
[03:25] <Burgundavia> basically, it is a duplication of effort
[03:25] <rob^> Burgundavia, that is what I said
[03:25] <rob^> I agree
[03:25] <Burgundavia> can I merge https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserGuideAddingRepositories into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesHowto
[03:25] <Burgundavia> I would like to kill the first page
[03:25] <rob^> why not, if its relevent
[03:25] <Burgundavia> and I have fixed the 2nd page
[03:26] <Burgundavia> but I understand the NewUser people are an official team now
[03:26] <rob^> since when?
[03:26] <Burgundavia> basically, I want the new user people to leave docs to us
[03:26] <rob^> ditto
[03:26] <jsgotangco> rob^, its in launchpad
[03:26] <rob^> oh ok
[03:26] <jsgotangco> (sabdfl must have created it)
[03:26] <jasoncohen> Burgundavia, how would they be merged? the point of my page was really to make it easier for users to enable all the repositories that are needed for multimedia codecs/apps- not as a general guide
[03:27] <rob^> yeah, it is a duplication of effort though
[03:27] <Burgundavia> rob^, please
[03:27] <Burgundavia> basically, there is no need for lots of little docs
[03:27] <Burgundavia> that say that same thing
[03:27] <rob^> Burgundavia, I agree
[03:27] <rob^> New user people are just making an admin nightmare
[03:28] <Burgundavia> so we fix the existing pages
[03:28] <Burgundavia> and point them around
[03:28] <jasoncohen> rob^, well, it's partly a duplication but on the adding repositories guide that shows/tells you how to add hoary extras 
[03:28] <Burgundavia> jasoncohen, at the bottom of addingrepos, we point to restricted formats
[03:28] <rob^> its a pretty simple process anyway jasoncohen 
[03:28] <Burgundavia> which tells them how to do it
[03:28] <jasoncohen> i'm not against the other pages. i mean- i actually added the screenshots to the adding repositories page for hoary
[03:28] <Burgundavia> jasoncohen, also, the newuseraddingrepos advocates the commandline
[03:28] <rob^> having two pages on the subject is a waste of time and effort
[03:28] <Burgundavia> which is very non-ubuntu and quite scary for new users
[03:29] <jasoncohen> Burgundavia, only because i find it easier - i can add a synaptic section
[03:29] <jasoncohen> Burgundavia, why scary?
[03:29] <Burgundavia> jasoncohen, that doesn't fix the fundamental problem
[03:29] <Burgundavia> which is CLI and duplication of effort
[03:29] <Burgundavia> so what I am trying to do, is say this "work with the doc team on this, not in parallel"
[03:30] <jasoncohen> i don't see it that way. this has to be the #1 or #2 problem i hear on #ubuntu
[03:30] <rob^> Burgundavia, I'm glad I'm not the only person who sees it that way
[03:30] <jasoncohen> clearly, other people didn't find the general docs clear enough
[03:30] <Burgundavia> all the doc team sees it as duplication
[03:30] <Burgundavia> jasoncohen, then fix the existing docs
[03:30] <jasoncohen> users find my multimedia guide simple & to the point
[03:30] <jsgotangco> just merge them what's the problem
[03:30] <Burgundavia> I find your userguide long
[03:30] <Burgundavia> here is how I see the process working
[03:30] <jasoncohen> because they want to know what they need to add repositories for multimedia stuff in one place- with specific - not general instructions
[03:30] <rob^> and the faq I'm working on will cover everything newusersguide people are doing also
[03:30] <jasoncohen> that's why i added the new page
[03:30] <Burgundavia> new users helps new users
[03:31] <Burgundavia> identifies areas that our docs are weak
[03:31] <rob^> and its official
[03:31] <Burgundavia> works with the doc team to fix them
[03:31] <Burgundavia> not, writes their own docs
[03:31] <jasoncohen> have you told the people in #ubuntu-nun ?
[03:31] <Burgundavia> no
[03:31] <jasoncohen> Burgundavia, well, can you give a preview of how you would merge it?
[03:32] <Burgundavia> I would kill it, basically
[03:32] <Burgundavia> merge the useful stuff into adding repos and restircted formats
[03:32] <jasoncohen> if there was a TOC then it could be linked to directly and have both general & specific instructions on one page
[03:32] <rob^> jasoncohen, there is going to be one soon
[03:32] <Burgundavia> we need short wiki pages
[03:32] <jasoncohen> i don't think this would fit into restricted formats...the info contradicts
[03:32] <Burgundavia> and linked extensively
[03:32] <rob^> jasoncohen, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation
[03:32] <rob^> preview
[03:32] <Burgundavia> then we fix restricted
[03:33] <jasoncohen> for example- i tell users to just install libdvdcss2 for DVDs and to install w32codecs if they want divx/xvid/wmv/quicktime support. the restricted formats guide just says not to use those formats.
[03:33] <Burgundavia> right now NewUserAddingRepos is no better than ubuntuguide
[03:33] <Burgundavia> jasoncohen, there are some legal issues that need to be sorted out as well
[03:33] <rob^> jasoncohen, in that we shouldnt mention it at all..
[03:33] <Burgundavia> jasoncohen, we are the doc team, we write docs
[03:34] <Burgundavia> nun tells us what docs to write and how to clarify them
[03:34] <Burgundavia> is that a good division of effort?
[03:34] <jasoncohen> well- i couldn't mention that in restricted formats. it's official and the recommendation is legally fishy
[03:34] <jasoncohen> but i can unofficially
[03:34] <Burgundavia> it is on the official wiki
[03:34] <jsgotangco> in an official ubuntu wiki?
[03:34] <Burgundavia> thus it is official
[03:34] <Burgundavia> the courts will not quible between your page and ours
[03:35] <jasoncohen> yes, ubuntu clearly states info on the wiki are the author's opinions and not ubuntu
[03:35] <Burgundavia> that is fine
[03:35] <Burgundavia> then why not merge into the existing docs?
[03:35] <jsgotangco> good point
[03:36] <jasoncohen> well, i don't have a problem if it's merged with a TOC as long as the instructions are specific & not general
[03:36] <Burgundavia> they can be as specific as they need to be
[03:36] <Burgundavia> you need to tell us where we are falling down
[03:36] <jasoncohen> new users were constantly asking about this issue. 
[03:36] <jasoncohen> ok, well, i'm not opposed to adding it to addingrepositories then
[03:37] <Burgundavia> but can agree that nun will not create an new docs?
[03:37] <jasoncohen> you'll have to speak to nun directly. i'm a member of nun. i don't speak for everyone.
[03:37] <Burgundavia> and that we can remove the existing page that are prefixed with NewUser that we have docs for alrady?
[03:37] <Burgundavia> ok
[03:38] <jasoncohen> can you show me a preview first?
[03:38] <jsgotangco> too much freedom! heh
[03:38] <Burgundavia> you can fix it once I am done
[03:38] <Burgundavia> if you disagree
[03:39] <rob^> eh bring on help.u.org
[03:39] <jasoncohen> ok
[03:44] <jasoncohen> btw, wha'ts wrong with linking to AddingRepositoriesHowto?
[03:45] <tiglionabbit> it doesn't have a ready sources.list, with a hoary-extras mirror in it
[03:57] <rwabel> hi
[03:58] <Burgundavia> salut
[03:58] <rwabel> I get problem with conflicts in UbuntuDocumentation
[03:58] <rwabel> Edit conflict - other version:
[03:58] <rwabel> Edit conflict - your version:
[03:59] <Burgundavia> that would have been me
[03:59] <Burgundavia> what were you trying to do/
[03:59] <Burgundavia> ?
[03:59] <rwabel> I've added a new howto
[03:59] <rwabel> americas army
[03:59] <Burgundavia> ah
[03:59] <Burgundavia> add it now
[04:00] <rwabel> mhh it's already added but the conflict is still there
[04:01] <Burgundavia> fix it
[04:02] <rwabel> ah I see, I can just remove it...I'm quit new to the wiki stuff
[04:18] <robitaille> hummm...it seems "my" old IBMJava wiki page has been removed from the Java page.  But I'm still on the RestrictedFormats page :)
[04:19] <jsgotangco> heretic!
[04:19] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[04:20] <Burgundavia> we are having a good discussion in #ubuntu-nun about what target audience for nun
[04:20] <Burgundavia> some people don't understand that we are targeting grandma
[04:20] <jsgotangco> i will join
[04:21] <robitaille> so we don'grandma 
[04:21] <robitaille> tso we don't want grandma to use IBM's Java?
[04:22] <Burgundavia> I have been going to town on the wiki
[04:22] <Burgundavia> robitaille, you think I have been doing useful things?
[04:22] <jsgotangco> wow are you guys talking about what to write or how to organize what is currently written?
[04:23] <Burgundavia> a little of both
[04:23] <robitaille> haven't checked your changes yet.  But did noticed you are using "CoreyBurger2"
[04:23] <Burgundavia> yes
[04:23] <Burgundavia> so does mdke
[04:23] <Burgundavia> he uses MatthewEast2
[04:23] <jsgotangco> seems a lot of duplication has been happening
[04:23] <robitaille> why?
[04:23] <robitaille> (for the "2")
[04:23] <Burgundavia> no idea
[04:24] <Burgundavia> I had an account on the old wiki and launchpad
[04:24] <Burgundavia> probably it
[04:24] <robitaille> jsgotangco: I keep thinking I should do a bit of work on the Wiki.  But life keeps getting in the way (and work that happen to be scheduled at the same time than Ubuntu meetings...)
[04:25] <jsgotangco> same here im beginning to hate my work although the pay is good at the moment heh
[04:25] <robitaille> personally I love my work...but the pay could be better
[04:25] <robitaille> (but at least I have a job...)
[04:26] <Burgundavia> grrr
[04:26] <Burgundavia> jobs are nice
[04:28] <jsgotangco> i would have wanted to stay in my current job after the contract if it was possible though
[04:29] <jsgotangco> but im also talking to a prospective employer at the same time and if they would give me an offer, i definitely won't refuse
[04:30] <jsgotangco> (although if that happens that would mean i have to be low-key in ubuntu)
[04:30] <Burgundavia> that would suck
[04:30] <jsgotangco> well yeah it would be a conflict of interest
[04:34] <robitaille> jsgotangco: don't do it...don't go work for Microsoft :)
[04:35] <jsgotangco> haha
[04:35] <jsgotangco> no
[04:35] <jsgotangco> i'm currently on contract with Oracle
[04:35] <jsgotangco> but i've been talking with people from the local Novell office
[04:35] <Burgundavia> cool
[04:36] <jsgotangco> but the position is evangelical in nature
[04:36] <Burgundavia> that would be cool
[04:36] <jsgotangco> hence it would be a riot if i speak for them and present using ubuntu
[04:36] <jsgotangco> yeah i do hope it happens though
[04:44] <robitaille> do we have an official definitition of which pages are to be put in the "CategoryDocumentation"?
[04:45] <robitaille> (just wondering if IPodder fits in that category or not
[04:45] <Burgundavia> not really
[04:46] <Burgundavia> looks like docs to me
[04:46] <Burgundavia> might need a "Crack" warning label though
[04:46] <jsgotangco> oh great the discussion is now about writing
[04:47] <Burgundavia> I am just going to keep on plowing ahead
[04:47] <Burgundavia> and take it to the CC if something bigger erupts
[04:47] <robitaille> but then GnomeLaunchBox has that CategoryDoc label.
[04:48] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, aye
[04:48] <jsgotangco> i will brb for a while then
[06:25] <mgalvin> done for this evening in case anyone has time to commit those, thnx in advance
[06:26] <mgalvin> g'night all
[07:32] <rob^> holy heck, I was just reading my log of #ubuntu-nun from the last few hours, funny stuff
[07:32] <rob^> Burgundavia, I'm sure you had to repeat yourself about 50 times!
[07:32] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:32] <rob^> I just got back :)
[07:32] <jsgotangco> is the log in fabbione's site?
[07:33] <rob^> no, just what I had in xchats scrollback
[07:33] <jsgotangco> well from what i understand when i stayed there briefly there were talking about writing instead of guiding which is what NUN is all about
[07:34] <rob^> yeah, but the problem is they are just duplicating effort
[07:35] <rob^> they would be much better off improving what is already there
[07:35] <jsgotangco> exactly
[07:36] <rob^> maybe even join the wikiteam..
[07:36] <jsgotangco> having sites like ubuntuguide.org are very unavoidable and thats what's community is all about
[07:37] <jsgotangco> but as long as it resides on official servers then there should be ground rules on these
[07:37] <rob^> agreed
[07:37] <jsgotangco> as a distro, we are all in growing pains as a community but it doesn't have to be like the wild wild west
[07:37] <rob^> and if they are going to sit in official irc channels they should refer to the official documentation where possible
[07:37] <jsgotangco> right
[07:38] <rob^> if they dont think its up to scratch, improve whats there.. etc 
[07:38] <jsgotangco> so if the bot is spewing up stuff like !gay then we have a problem
[07:38] <rob^> yeah.. like yesterday
[07:39] <rob^> how does one go about getting ops on officical #ubuntu channels?
[07:39] <jsgotangco> i really like the aggressiveness on their side which only shows how enthusiastic these people are
[07:39] <rob^> hehe I put a #
[07:40] <jsgotangco> i think the ops thing has been discussed before in previous CC meetings
[07:40] <jsgotangco> i really don't know who owns the channel at the moment
[07:40] <rob^> which I applaud, but it needs to be in the right direction
[07:40] <jsgotangco> right
[07:40] <rob^> cool
[07:40] <jsgotangco> you can probably ask bob2 or daniels
[07:41] <rob^> jdub owns it
[07:41] <jsgotangco> ahh
[07:59] <rob^> hmm
[07:59] <rob^> I want to rewrite the beginning parts of the faq guide to better explain what apt-get, sudo etc is..
[08:00] <rob^> I think I might get an early night tonight and get cracking tomorrow, my brain is tired :)
[08:10] <jsgotangco> rob^: are you in AU?
[08:10] <rob^> yes
[08:11] <rob^> why is that?
[08:12] <jsgotangco> just a guess
[08:12] <rob^> good one
[08:57] <robitaille> I don't think I'll ever make it to a doc-team meeting.  Today was during work and I was too busy. And for the next one, I'll be on vacation camping, away from network access
[08:58] <Burgundavia> ouch
[08:58] <robitaille> 6 days camping...no computers.  It'll be great :)
[08:59] <venda> African Greetings everybody
[08:59] <Burgundavia> salut
[08:59] <jsgotangco> i'd like that just roaming around without thinking of computers and all
[09:00] <robitaille> beach...doing sand castles with the kids.  Wondering how many hundred of emails will be accumulating in my mailboxes, both at work and at home during that time.
[09:00] <robitaille> I could always handwrite some docs....
[09:00] <jsgotangco> i'd completely dump computers if i was in temptation island or something similar
[09:00] <jsgotangco> and just rely on smoke signals
[09:01] <venda> I'm getting nervous at the thought of not having my computer
[09:01] <robitaille> I did it for 7 days last summer (cottage in the mountains);  I surprised myself how I coped with the change in routine.  
[09:01] <venda> al my laptop needs is female reproductive organs and I can do without my wife :-)
[09:01] <jsgotangco> i i had a small store i wouldn't need a computer. i'll just trust the abacus which we were luckly to have been trained when we were kids
[09:02] <jsgotangco> venda: yuck
[09:02] <jsgotangco> venda: silicon doesn't even sweat
[09:02] <robitaille> s/abasus/abacus
[09:05] <jsgotangco> i was looking at my peer at the nearby cubicle and he was using PhotoStory 3
[09:06] <venda> arghhh .... got my work cut out for me next week. Why can't customers plan, why must everything be done tomorrow?
[09:06] <jsgotangco> its a really nice MS app and its free
[09:06] <jsgotangco> i wish we had something like that on gnome or kde
[09:06] <venda> jsgotangco: is it open source?
[09:07] <jsgotangco> venda: who cares for the average user
[09:07] <jsgotangco> it works for them
[09:07] <venda> then its not free
[09:07] <venda> :-)
[09:07] <venda> but yes, Linux games are lacking
[09:07] <robitaille> brb   (rebooting into Breezy)
[09:07] <jsgotangco> its no game
[09:07] <jsgotangco> its a photo app
[09:08] <venda> Like make your digital photo album?
[09:09] <jsgotangco> no it makes slideshows for your photos into different formats
[09:09] <jsgotangco> it even has its own music editor
[09:10] <venda> cool
[09:10] <jsgotangco> i just dont usewindows that much so its proabably the reason why i enjoyed using it
[09:11] <venda> there are somethings that windows does better
[09:11] <jsgotangco> are there docbook editors for windows that dont use java?
[09:11] <jsgotangco> i mean
[09:11] <jsgotangco> how do you parse them iin windows anyway
[09:12] <jsgotangco> or osx even
[09:12] <venda> java rocks, but yes you do get structured editors for windows
[09:12] <venda> that are not java
[09:12] <Burgundavia> bah java
[09:12] <Burgundavia> non free crap
[09:13] <venda> jsgotangco: the toolchain is also available on windows
[09:13] <venda> xsltproc
[09:13] <jsgotangco> well java is inescapable for me since i work with oracle atm
[09:13] <venda> jsgotangco: dont listen to Burgundavia, Java rocks dude
[09:13] <jsgotangco> venda: i studied java in 2001 with IBM heh
[09:14] <venda> did anyone see the write up on my favorite XML Editor, Oxygen in Linux Format
[09:14] <jsgotangco> and the stuff assigned to me from oracle runs in java
[09:14] <jsgotangco> (although i am no good as a java programmer)
[09:15] <venda> I am no programmer, yet, but I just like having apps that run on any JVM
[09:15] <robitaille> back in Hoary...well it seems tonight upgrade killed my Breezy's X...again. sigh
[09:16] <jsgotangco> does X even work heh
[09:16] <venda> I need a cross-platform toolchain because I never know which platform my customers products will run on
[09:16] <venda> robitaille: yes its a major blocke for me 2
[09:16] <jsgotangco> what would the toolchain then be if its osx?
[09:16] <venda> I was complaining bitterly about it in the meeting
[09:16] <venda> jsgotangco: use java
[09:17] <venda> Xerces, Xalan, Saxon, Apache FOP
[09:17] <venda> and a java based editor
[09:17] <rob^> hey, I added https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbotuFactoids to the wiki
[09:18] <rob^> what do you all think?
[09:18] <jsgotangco> oXygen looks expensive
[09:18] <venda> no its not :-)
[09:18] <venda> have you priced XML-Spy
[09:19] <jsgotangco> xml spy is too expensive
[09:19] <robitaille> someone created a new wiki page tonight about the Uboto:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbotuFactoids
[09:19] <rob^> yeah, me
[09:19] <jsgotangco> heh scrollback
[09:19] <venda> Oxygen rocks on price
[09:20] <robitaille> rob^:  just noticed it was you  after I typed my comment :)
[09:20] <rob^> :)
[09:20] <rob^> what do you think?
[09:20] <jsgotangco> rob^: where's !gay hehehe *joke*
[09:20] <rob^> haha
[09:21] <venda> jsgotangco: you wont find an xmleditor with that feature set at that price anywhere else
[09:21] <jsgotangco> oohhh it can do eclipise
[09:21] <venda> yes, many people use the eclipse plugin
[09:22] <robitaille> rob^: once it's complete, we should add that page to the #ubuntu topic
[09:22] <venda> jsgotangco: btw, when you install it, it installs its own xml frameowrks, no need to setup anything
[09:23] <venda> jsgotangco: which is really good when you need to get working fast on machines
[09:23] <Burgundavia> I requested the ubotu owner do that
[09:23] <jsgotangco> hmmm i will try an eval
[09:23] <jsgotangco> and probably save for it when i would need it
[09:23] <venda> enjoy, would like to know what you think
[09:23] <rob^> Burgundavia, yeah, scratching an itch
[09:24] <venda> jsgotangco: my user manual should help you, its a bit broken in th English because they now maintain it, but its still good
[09:25] <jsgotangco> holy its $148
[09:26] <rob^> robitaille, is basically is complete, it just a quick how to and list of factoids
[09:26] <rob^> refers to both #ubuntu and #kubuntu too
[09:35] <venda> jsgotangco: Oxygen has a 34% off special going now
[09:36] <venda> that's the pro edition
[09:37] <venda> but you could use the personal edition @ $48
[09:37] <jsgotangco> venda: sponsor me :)
[09:40] <venda> Hmmmm, what's in it for me?
[09:40] <venda> :-)
[09:40] <venda> a hug, that's it
[09:40] <venda> now if you open an office of InWords, I will sponsor more that just an XML Editor ;-)
[09:40] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[09:40] <jsgotangco> but i still have a contract
[09:41] <jsgotangco> and i might move to another employer
[09:41] <venda> so I have many.
[09:41] <jsgotangco> and im not so sure how the flow of business of this kind is at the moment
[09:42] <venda> jsgotangco: if its employment you want then I am not a good choice. If you want to be a business owner, then I can help. But you must decide what you want first
[09:43] <venda> risk or less risk
[09:43] <venda> my choice has high risks
[09:43] <venda> but that is business
[09:44] <venda> but then I command the limit of how much I can earn, not somebody else :-)
[09:44] <jsgotangco> this is best spoken in priv heh
[09:44] <venda> sure
[09:44] <jsgotangco> haha
[09:44] <rob^> heh
[09:45] <venda> I must get my day started it's 09:38 and I am have just finished morning coffee
[09:45] <robitaille> we're between friends here...no secrets between the ...humm...  dozen of people online at this hour :)
[09:45] <Burgundavia> rofl
[10:13] <mdke> Burgundavia, ping?
[10:14] <judax> mdke: morning
[10:14] <mdke> morning
[10:15] <Burgundavia> mdke, here
[10:16] <mdke> hi
[10:16] <froud> morn
[10:17] <Burgundavia> what is up?
[10:17] <mdke> Burgundavia, I saw you removed the links to ubuntuguide and releasenotes from the UserDocumentation page
[10:17] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:17] <mdke> how come?
[10:17] <Burgundavia> ubutunguide is crack and release notes are not useful for new users
[10:17] <judax> froud-work: morning
[10:18] <mdke> Burgundavia, the release notes are useful! they tell users what is in Ubuntu...
[10:18] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:18] <Burgundavia> add them back in
[10:18] <Burgundavia> maybe under their own section?
[10:18] <mdke> hmm
[10:18] <judax> Burgundavia: you got the ubuntuguide thread going again :)
[10:19] <mdke> Burgundavia, also ubuntuguide may be crack, but it has information which the wiki doesn't have right now. even if it is crack, it is an undeniable truth that it has helped many users
[10:19] <Burgundavia> hmm
[10:19] <mdke> yeah that thread had just reached a good compromise...
[10:20] <Burgundavia> oh geez
[10:20] <Burgundavia> I did kick off a firestorm
[10:20] <mdke> Burgundavia, anyway more importantly, how did you get on in NUN?
[10:20] <Burgundavia> so so
[10:20] <Burgundavia> nalioth supports me
[10:21] <Burgundavia> jasonconen and taglion-ish doesn't
[10:21] <mdke> what is the position?
[10:21] <judax> <-- sleep time; it's 330am, night/morn all
[10:21] <mdke> they want to write their own documents and don't want to work on the existing ones?
[10:21] <Burgundavia> need to simplfy the existing docs
[10:21] <Burgundavia> and merge the newuser stuff into the main docs
[10:21] <mdke> i agree
[10:21] <mdke> they are not interested in that?
[10:22] <Burgundavia> jasoncohen and tag, I don't think they see the bigger picture yet
[10:22] <Burgundavia> and don't understand why grandma is not interested in CLI
[10:22] <mdke> Burgundavia, this is a real issue for us as documentation team. I suggest we talk to the Com Council and try and resolve it
[10:22] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:23] <mdke> cool
[10:23] <Burgundavia> I am going to try and resolve it before the cc meeting though
[10:23] <mdke> Seveas and Mez are reasonable people, so we can get communication going and sort this mess out
[10:23] <mdke> Burgundavia, i'll help
[10:23] <mdke> Burgundavia, what is the plan?
[10:24] <Burgundavia> observe this stupidity
[10:24] <Burgundavia> I edit NewUbuntuUsers, to make more sense
[10:24] <Burgundavia> then tag takes his old copy and moves it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuQuickFAQs
[10:24] <mdke> got it rolled back?
[10:24] <mdke> oh even worse
[10:25] <mdke> jesus christ
[10:25] <Burgundavia> can you can the 2nd?
[10:25] <Burgundavia> don't think i have delete rights on the wiki
[10:25] <mdke> everyone does
[10:25] <Burgundavia> how?
[10:25] <Burgundavia> and that is scary
[10:25] <mdke> i don't delete pages people want though
[10:25] <mdke> yeah i know
[10:25] <mdke> we haven't got around to sorting it yet
[10:25] <Burgundavia> dead
[10:26] <mdke> Other Actions --> Delete Page
[10:26] <Burgundavia> saw it
[10:26] <mdke> but don't delete pages that people want
[10:26] <mdke> its rude
[10:26] <Burgundavia> he created it because he was pissed off at me, not for any rational reason
[10:26] <Burgundavia> and he couldn't see that what I was doing was rational
[10:26] <Burgundavia> though others could, such as nalioth
[10:27] <mdke> ok
[10:27] <mdke> you need to explain to them the concept of a wiki
[10:27] <Burgundavia> basically tag and jasonconen don't really understand how to write docs, to be blunt
[10:27] <mdke> if they want static pages, they have to host them somewhere
[10:28] <mdke> ok we really need to work towards maximising effort and getting -nun to work on the existing wiki pages
[10:28] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:28] <Burgundavia> pretty much the whole doc team agrees
[10:28] <Burgundavia> so it should be a slam dunk if it comes to the CC
[10:29] <mdke> we need to get communication going with them
[10:29] <mdke> Mez came in here when they started but we didn't have a proper discussion
[10:30] <mdke> i can't do anything now but I will chat with them later
[10:30] <mdke> Burgundavia, btw I'm glad you got involved because I had kind of avoided this issue so far and let them right, now I see its important we talk with them
[10:30] <Burgundavia> I was thinking about RestrictedFormats
[10:31] <Burgundavia> we need make that page more of a howto
[10:31] <mdke> i agree that it is not user friendly right now
[10:31] <Burgundavia> and make links to a FreeFormats page
[10:31] <mdke> but it will improve quickly if someone starts... lots of people work on it
[10:31] <Burgundavia> do you like that idea?
[10:31] <mdke> yeah very much
[10:31] <Burgundavia> basically, don't nag people ever other line about free formats
[10:31] <mdke> although no screenshots!
[10:32] <Burgundavia> huh?
[10:32] <Burgundavia> restricted doesn't need them
[10:32] <mdke> good
[10:32] <mdke> cool
[10:34] <mdke> okies, gtg, bbl
[10:50] <Burgundavia> hmm
[10:50] <Burgundavia> no I run into the issues of w32codecs
[10:50] <Burgundavia> crap
[10:50] <Burgundavia> so the consensus is that we cannot list w32codecs at all?
[10:59] <Kinnison> Morning
[10:59] <Burgundavia> morning Kinnison 
[10:59] <Burgundavia> seems I back to my old ways
[10:59] <Kinnison> hi burgey
[10:59] <Burgundavia> stirring people up
[10:59] <Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=255802#post255802
[10:59] <Burgundavia> and ubuntu-nun
[11:08] <Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=255852#post255852
[11:08] <Burgundavia> my response
[11:09] <Kinnison> heh
[11:11] <jsgotangco> hey Burgy don't stir up the natives heh
[11:11] <Burgundavia> fuck
[11:11] <Burgundavia> Kinnison, I have a jabber account
[11:11] <Burgundavia> and I really love gossip
[11:12] <jsgotangco> gossip?
[11:12] <Burgundavia> jabber client
[11:12] <jsgotangco> doesn't gaim do jabber as well?
[11:12] <Burgundavia> possibly the simplest and most beautful irc client out there
[11:13] <Burgundavia> for nun, I am simply going to push forward
[11:13] <Burgundavia> for that forums issue, I have laid out what happened, and my position
[11:13] <Burgundavia> gah
[11:13] <jsgotangco> right
[11:13] <jsgotangco> (NUN is supposed to be for guidance not writing anyways)
[11:14] <Burgundavia> I am prepared to go the CC to get them to let us write docs, if that is what it takes
[11:14] <jsgotangco> go for it
[11:14] <Burgundavia> I am going to try to resolve it before then
[11:14] <Burgundavia> but I seriously doubt whether some will come on boar
[11:14] <Burgundavia> d
[11:15] <rob^> thats their choice
[11:15] <jsgotangco> come on board to where?
[11:15] <rob^> write docs or not.
[11:15] <jsgotangco> ah i got lost i had 3 nice female visitors today
[11:16] <Burgundavia> poor man
[11:17] <jsgotangco> yeah suppliers are the best
[11:17] <jsgotangco> too bad i am married already but im not going to let that invitation for a badminton match get past me
[11:17] <Burgundavia> rofl
[11:18] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: is Gossip a jabber-only client?
[11:18] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:18] <Burgundavia> ok
[11:18] <Burgundavia> xchat can activate the fancy blinky thing
[11:18] <Burgundavia> but it doesn't seem to know how to turn it off
[11:20] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: what's your jabber.org account?
[11:21] <Burgundavia> burgundavia
[11:21] <Burgundavia> anywhere online is Burgundavia
[11:23] <Burgundavia> sweet, my blog is now the first hit for burgundavia
[11:23] <Burgundavia> followed by my wikipedia user page
[11:24] <Burgundavia> my blog is also the first hit for Corey Burger
[11:24] <Burgundavia> http://www.technorati.com/tag/Corey+Burger
[11:24] <Burgundavia> I even have a technorati tag
[11:36] <jsgotangco> brb need to switch to Kubuntu
[11:42] <Burgundavia> night all
[12:23] <mdke> hi all
[12:23] <jsgotangco> mdke, hi
[12:24] <jsgotangco> im tired i had a long day
[12:24] <mdke> its all good
[12:24] <mdke> my day yesterday was pretty shit
[12:25] <jsgotangco> 3 nice ladies went into my office today
[12:25] <mdke> hey
[12:25] <mdke> you player!
[12:25] <jsgotangco> hmmm? they were vendors
[12:26] <jsgotangco> but im not going to deny their request for a badminton match
[12:26] <mdke> hehe
[12:26] <mdke> bikini badminton i hope
[12:26] <jsgotangco> (oh yeah the UK duo whipped asia's arse last night)
[12:29] <mdke> cool
[12:29] <mdke> go UK!
[12:29] <jsgotangco> but it was no match, after all, UK has the #1 mixed doubles team in the world
[12:29] <jsgotangco> and they were playing against #24
[12:30] <mdke> ah
[12:31] <jsgotangco> http://news.inq7.net/sports/index.php?index=1&story_id=43543
[12:36] <jsgotangco> i got to watch Pi Hongyan play at last heh
[12:36] <mdke> i bet watching pros play badminton is cool
[12:37] <mdke> they must be fast as hell
[12:37] <jsgotangco> indeed considering its the fastest raquet sport at the moment
[12:38] <mdke> really?
[12:38] <mdke> even squash?
[12:38] <jsgotangco> yeah
[12:38] <jsgotangco> badminton is the fastest
[12:39] <jsgotangco> i guess its because of the shuttle
[12:40] <mdke> yeah guess so
[12:43] <jsgotangco> the game is more popular in indonesia and malaysia
[12:43] <jsgotangco> heck most of them are olympians
[12:44] <mdke> its a good game, but the problem for me is that it can only be played indoors really
[12:44] <mdke> so here its easier to play tennis because there are outdoor courts that everyone can use
[12:45] <jsgotangco> oh its different in our case we dont have that much area for tennis courts and old warehouses here are converted to bandminton courts
[12:46] <jsgotangco> theres not much golf courses in the city either
[12:46] <jsgotangco> there are tons of snooker and pool halls though
[12:48] <mdke> bbl
[12:48] <mdke> -it meeting
[12:48] <jsgotangco> im going home too
[12:48] <jsgotangco> later
[12:48] <mdke> night
[03:16] <kbrooks> hEY.
[03:16] <kbrooks> Hey*
[03:17] <mdke> hiya
[03:17] <jjesse> hiya
[03:17] <kbrooks> I think you're right.
[03:17] <kbrooks> Hence why I'm improving (the Java page) instead of creating new pages..
[03:18] <mdke> kbrooks, :)
[03:18] <mdke> that java page is one of the biggest targets for improvement ;)
[03:18] <mdke> thanks for doing that
[03:18] <kbrooks> I'd like some help in improving the page.
[03:18] <kbrooks> You're very welcome, as always,
[03:19] <mdke> we will try and help out
[03:19] <jjesse> i could help reveiw it when finished
[03:19] <mdke> but I want to resolve this NewUserGuide question first
[03:19] <kbrooks> OK
[03:20] <mgalvin> hi all
[03:20] <jjesse> NewUserGuide is the one that encourages people not to use the unofficcial userguide right?
[03:20] <mgalvin> jjesse, yes
[03:22] <mdke> let's not get into that pls
[03:22] <mgalvin> oh no not again ;)
[04:00] <kbrooks> mdke: Question resolved?
[04:00] <mdke> kbrooks, yes from my point of view I think it is
[04:00] <kbrooks> OK
[04:00] <mdke> apparently the point of the guide was never to write new documentation
[04:00] <mdke> but instead to provide links to current wiki resources
[04:00] <mdke> and work on those
[04:00] <kbrooks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Java
[04:01] <kbrooks> lets see if we all can pick a choice from there and say 'this is better'.
[04:01] <mdke> kbrooks, method 1
[04:01] <mdke> gets my vote
[04:02] <kbrooks> mez:
[04:02] <kbrooks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Java
[04:02] <kbrooks> mdke, Why?
[04:03] <mdke> hmm
[04:03] <mdke> because lots of people tell me that is the way supported by the Ubuntu java team
[04:03] <kbrooks> the problem is newbies.
[04:03] <mdke> personally I used blackdown myself because I can't be bothered to get the build environment
[04:04] <kbrooks> mdke, OK, well, i thought some choices were reundant...and removed them.
[04:04] <kbrooks> redundant*
[04:04] <mdke> fair enough
[04:04] <kbrooks> I want to satisfy ALL users of Ubuntu.
[04:04] <jjesse> is the wiki slow for others?
[04:04] <jjesse> it always seems to be  slow for me :(
[04:05] <mdke> jjesse, no, seems ok here
[04:05] <kbrooks> ok here
[04:05] <jjesse> still trying to load the link on java 
[04:05] <mdke> kbrooks, so you removed blackdown?
[04:05] <kbrooks> mdke, Yes. Sun Java is fine.
[04:05] <mgalvin> jjesse, slow for me too
[04:05] <kbrooks> all other Java implementations are not fine.
[04:06] <jjesse> finally loaded, it looks nice kbrooks 
[04:06] <kbrooks> ok, well
[04:07] <mgalvin> i know i missed some of this conversation but... what about gjc/gij, this works on breezy.
[04:07] <kbrooks> read: breezy
[04:08] <kbrooks> I reject the gnu java idea.
[04:08] <kbrooks> It is not feasible.
[04:08] <mgalvin> if people install eclipse from universe then gjc/gij gets installed and it works
[04:09] <kbrooks> ...so?
[04:10] <mgalvin> from what i have seen the two can interfere with each other
[04:11] <kbrooks> Java and GCJ?
[04:12] <mgalvin> yes, some java apps get confused
[04:12] <kbrooks> I want  *one* Java implementation.
[04:12] <mgalvin> ant for one
[04:13] <kbrooks> Huh?
[04:14] <mgalvin> ant can break if both jre/gij are installed, i have seen this happen many times
[04:15] <mdke> and gij get's installed automatically with some things?
[04:15] <kbrooks> that's the problem.
[04:15] <kbrooks> mdke: Yes.
[04:15] <mdke> who works on java with ubuntu?
[04:15] <kbrooks> not me
[04:15] <kbrooks> I want to meet him.
[04:16] <mdke> well i'm sure that won't be a problem
[04:16] <kbrooks> What?
[04:17] <mdke> let's just find out who it is, then you can talk to them, explain the problem, and get confirmation on the best method
[04:17] <mgalvin> there is #ubuntu-java
[04:17] <kbrooks> Me? by myself?
[04:17] <mdke> otherwise, try #ubuntu-motu
[04:17] <mdke> kbrooks, sure, if you don't want to, mgalvin will do it
[04:18] <mdke> right?
[04:18] <mdke> kbrooks, everyone is friendly here
[04:18] <kbrooks> We both should do it. :)
[04:18] <mdke> ok
[04:18] <mgalvin> i can surely help determine the right/best way of doing things
[04:50] <kbrooks> Skywind, Hey.
[04:50] <kbrooks> I can help with the Ubuntu documentation.
[04:50] <kbrooks> I already have, in the past.
[04:52] <kbrooks> Skywind, In case you are wondering.....
[04:59] <Skywind> kbrooks, hi
[04:59] <kbrooks> Hi.
[05:00] <jsgotangco> salut
[05:02] <Skywind> kbrooks, thank you  :)
[05:02] <kbrooks> For?
[05:02] <kbrooks> look at the Java page. that's my contribution.
[05:03] <Skywind> for your "Hey" :)
[05:04] <Skywind> I hear about ubuntu will use python to write init script? Is this true?
[05:04] <Skywind> hehe
[05:04] <kbrooks> No idea.
[05:06] <Skywind> may be a canard, hoho
[05:13] <jsgotangco> froud-away: hey?
[05:23] <jsgotangco> hi enrico
[05:43] <kbrooks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Java
[05:43] <kbrooks> Anyone like it?
[05:47] <jsgotangco> kbrooks: i think its a good start
[05:59] <jsgotangco> but java as a backport is questionable because of the legality of repackaging it instead of pulling it from Sun's website
[06:10] <mgalvin> jsgotangco, just a heads up, we have been discussing this on # -java also
[06:11] <jsgotangco> even on -devel heh
[06:13] <jsgotangco> im gonna sleep hehe
[06:13] <jsgotangco> see you later
[06:13] <mgalvin> g'night
[06:13] <mgalvin> l8r
[06:13] <jsgotangco> i didnt know ubuntu-java had an active population
[06:14] <mgalvin> yea, there a few people there jbaily, wasabi, me, and some others
[06:14] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[06:14] <jsgotangco> might drop there one time
[06:14] <jsgotangco> well laters then
[06:14] <mgalvin> later
[06:33] <mgalvin> could someone possibly apply my patches?
[06:37] <kbrooks> uh
[09:41] <froud> mgalvin: patches sent between 15:48 to 15:56 have been applied
[09:42] <mgalvin> froud, cool, i just saw the emails, thanks
[09:44] <froud> mgalvin: oops i JUST saw second patch on faqguide
[10:05] <mgalvin> venda, sent a fix for faq guide to the list, its the missing part of that patch
[11:36] <rwabel> hi
[11:36] <rwabel> enyone who can help me out with icons in the wiki
[11:36] <rwabel> especially an icon in a heading
[11:37] <Burgundavia> robitaille is the best person to ask about that, rwabel 
[11:37] <rwabel> thanks
[11:38] <rwabel> robitaille: is it possible to put an icon in a heading in the wiki?
[11:45] <robitaille> rwabel: hummm I have never tried.  it doesn't work?
[11:52] <robitaille> rwabel:  indeed it doesn't work...let me check google.
[11:58] <rwabel> thanks
[12:04] <robitaille> rwabel:  didn't find anything. sorry.  but I'll keep my eyes open for a solution.
[12:07] <rwabel> thanks, would be great to have that possibility
[12:07] <rwabel> what kind of wiki system is this one?
[12:07] <Burgundavia> moin