[12:09] <lamont> \sh: so if it happens to be the situation that sparc has the old X and old qt-x11-free when it builds kdelibs (because it picks kdelibs up first), it'll work????
[12:10] <lamont> if you need a particular version of some package to build successfully, then you have a versioned build-dep.  whether you declare it or not
[12:11] <\sh> lamont: strange thing is, that I have a app here (kover) it doesn't build...needs kdelibs4-dev libarts1-dev libqt-bla-dev and another one...it refuses to build
[12:11] <lamont> ok
[12:12] <\sh> lamont: kdelibs4 needs as well libarts1-dev and libqt3-bla-dev and it builds
[12:12] <lamont> kde/kdelibs_4:3.4.1-0ubuntu5: Building by buildd+smallone [optional:out-of-date] 
[12:12] <lamont> libs/qt-x11-free_3:3.3.4-1ubuntu8: Building by buildd+bld-18 [optional:uncompiled] 
[12:12] <lamont> sound/arts_1.4.1-0ubuntu1: Building by buildd+smallone [optional:uncompiled] 
[12:12] <lamont> \
[12:12] <lamont> that's the build order, fwiw
[12:12] <lamont> qt-x11-free/hppa _is_ building.  not ftbfs yet.
[12:13] <\sh> hppa==ppc?
[12:13] <lamont> (since "Building" just means that the buildd admin hasn't done anything with the failure log yet)
[12:13] <lamont> or sometimes it means that it's actually building
[12:14] <\sh> looks like I need to setup a clone of a ubuntu buildd 
[12:15] <\sh> to get the right picture of how it works...there r too many diffs between a local pbuilder env and the sbuild stuff
[12:15] <Riddell> build order is qt, arts, kdelibs, kdebase
[12:16] <Riddell> ..everything else.. kdevelop, kdeaddons
[12:16] <\sh> so qt is done...arts then? but why my pbuilder is not complaining about libarts1-dev and the deps behind it
[12:16] <lamont> Riddell: yeah, I know what I posted wasn't the order they _should_ be tried in.  It's just the order that they _are_ tried in
[12:16] <lamont> \sh: how clean is your chroot?
[12:16] <Riddell> lamont: so I should upload an arts then a kdelibs with a build-dep on latest qt?
[12:17] <\sh> lamont: i'm using only pbuilder
[12:17] <\sh> and this is updated before any build i'm doing
[12:17] <\sh> so I'm using only newest
[12:17] <lamont> Riddell: there are two schools of thought...  Personally, I'd say that you want a build-dep on the latest qt
[12:18] <Riddell> lamont: what's the other school of thought?
[12:18] <\sh> lamont: if you build-dep on -dev packages u should get the latest 
[12:18] <lamont> it's not so bad if it is ftbfs with the old bits.  it's bad if it actually builds and produces something that isn't installable, since you get to do yet another upload to clear up that arch.
[12:18] <\sh> but if it's not there for the arch you build right now..it's really annoying
[12:18] <lamont> \sh: if you build-dep on a -dev package, then you get whatever is currently in the archive for that package
[12:19] <lamont> Riddell: the other school of thought is that versioned build-deps just to force build ordering are silly
[12:19] <lamont> I can't articulate it well, since I don't understand the thinking...
[12:19] <\sh> lamont: yeah...as I said, actually we should have a look that all arch buildd are producing actual packages and the archives are updated after all archs are build
[12:21] <Riddell> \sh: my kdelibs just failed (couldn't link kdearts because no libXrender.la) did you build a new arts?
[12:21] <\sh> nope
[12:21] <Riddell> \sh: spooky
[12:21] <lamont> \sh: and then you are simply doing the versioned build-dep manually
[12:21] <\sh> i just updated the pbuilder env..and kicked kdelibs4 in ...*strange*
[12:21] <lamont> and while the DC machines will do nicely for that, the SCC architectures will b0rk
[12:21] <\sh> ok...lets do arts first
[12:22] <\sh> sometimes it's really weired
[12:22] <\sh> Riddell: can u try it with pbuilder? 
[12:23] <\sh> anyways...moment
[12:23] <Riddell> pbuilder doesn't like me, it never works for me
[12:24] <\sh> lamont: sbuild is more a chroot then something else...
[12:25] <lamont> \sh: sbuild is my friend.  and what the autobuilders run
[12:25] <Riddell>  -> Attempting to parse the build-deps : pbuilder-satisfydepends,v 1.18 2003/04/20 03:40:36 dancer Exp $
[12:25] <Riddell>  -> Considering  cdbs (>= 0.4.27)
[12:25] <Riddell>       Tried versions: 0.4.26-1ubuntu1
[12:25] <Riddell> see, pbuilder doesn't like me
[12:25] <Riddell>    -> Does not satisfy version, not trying
[12:25] <Riddell> E: Could not satisfy build-dependency.
[12:26] <\sh> strange
[12:26] <seth_k> you updated your pbuilder base.tgz?
[12:27] <Riddell> seth_k: how do I update that?
[12:27] <seth_k> Riddell: issue "sudo pbuilder update"
[12:27] <\sh> pbuilder update --overwrite-config
[12:27] <seth_k> \sh do you need --overwrite-config? Only if you're upgrading distros, right?
[12:27] <Riddell> --overwrite-config sounds a bit scary
[12:27] <\sh> seth_k: yes
[12:28] <\sh> well...actually I used some wrapper scripts :) so I have hoary create/build/update and breezy create/build/update
[12:28] <seth_k> yeah Riddell, you only need --overwrite-config if you are going from, say, hoary to breezy
[12:28] <seth_k> updating your breezy chroot, you don't need it
[12:29] <\sh> arts builds now...lets wait for the end
[12:29] <seth_k> if you've created a base.tgz recently, you're hitting the pbuilder bugs of late. You can grab my breezy base.tgz at http://sethkinast.com/ubuntu/breezy/
[12:29] <lamont> qt-x11-free:            02:39:47 (31 entries, sigma 00:38:01)
[12:29] <lamont> sigh
[12:30] <\sh> Riddell: is arts going away for kde4?
[12:30] <seth_k> which might solve your issues, grabbing it and then copying to /var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz && sudo pbuilder update, Riddell.
[12:35] <\sh> really..xrender
[12:35] <\sh> and again
[12:36] <\sh> adding libXrender-dev
[12:39] <\sh> libxrender-dev *sigh*
[12:40] <Riddell> \sh: add to what?
[12:41] <\sh> arts
[12:41] <\sh> give it 10 mins ;)
[12:41] <\sh> my laptop is hot and not fast enough :(
[12:41] <Riddell> I gave up compiling anything on my laptop ages ago
[12:42] <\sh> it's my only chance...my WS is at my ex-wifes house
[12:42] <\sh> and it's been used by son :)
[12:48] <\sh> damn
[12:52] <\sh> i need my altgr back
[12:56] <\sh> why does arts needs xrender ?
[12:57] <Riddell> good question
[12:57] <\sh> need to have a text console...working with a broken keyboard layout s*cks
[12:57] <\sh> brb
[01:01] <pef_aw> bye !
[01:02] <\sh> re
[01:02] <\sh> *grmpf*
[01:02] <\sh> from what does it get it libXrender.la
[01:09] <\sh> Riddell: kde is now not working correctly ;-) we need to find a solution ,-)
[01:10] <\sh> after qt update
[01:14] <Riddell> Xcursor is one problem
[01:14] <\sh> is it in xorg? or separate?
[01:15] <uniq> hi.
[01:15] <Riddell> separate
[01:15] <\sh> separate..do we need it for arts? *wonder*
[01:15] <Riddell> I've rebuild xcursor and arts is OK, building kdelibs now
[01:16] <\sh> sounds good..u rock
[01:16] <Riddell> well, let's see if kdelibs builds
[01:17] <\sh> hmm..if apt-cache rdepends libxrender-dev is right...
[01:19] <Riddell> ...?
[01:19] <\sh> what about lesstif?
[01:20] <Riddell> doesn't seem to be needed by anything much
[01:21] <\sh> yeah..or are they using openmotif now? 
[01:23] <Riddell> buildlogs don't seem to mention either
[01:27] <\sh> it looks like that I have to go to bed now :( 
[01:28] <Riddell> why's that?
[01:28] <\sh> tomorrow will be a hard day..washing clothes...
[01:28] <Riddell> err, ok
[01:28] <\sh> friend is coming...wants to wash his clothes as well
[01:28] <\sh> and I need to clean the flat here :(
[01:29] <Riddell> clothes washing parties?  curious idea
[01:29] <\sh> yeah..we went all the time to a washing salon...
[01:30] <\sh> but now I bought a machine :) so he comes to me and wash his clothes :)
[01:30] <Riddell> laundrette :)  salon is where you get your hair cut
[01:30] <\sh> oh
[01:30] <\sh> *g*
[01:30] <Riddell> well, it's a posh word for a hairdresser or other silly places like nail varnisher
[01:30] <\sh> i should use dict.leo.org more often ;)
[01:38] <Riddell> \sh: xcursor was uploaded a couple days ago but is stuck in the build daemon
[01:39] <\sh> yeah..read it
[01:40] <\sh> so..we should go and sleep....today is another day to kick
[01:40] <\sh> ;)
[01:41] <\sh> riddell: g'night and thx for qt :) 
[01:41] <Riddell> guid nicht
[09:15] <\sh> uhh...lamont kickt xcursor?
[10:46] <pef> hi
[10:48] <\sh> hoi pef
[10:49] <pef> :)
[10:49] <pef> upgrading to the new liqt3 reset the widget theme
[10:49] <pef> s/liqt3/libqt3/
[10:51] <\sh> yes...
[10:52] <\sh> xcursor is done..waiting for jonathan to punch arts and kde* through the nasty buildd cycle
[10:53] <pef> can I help you for the libqt3c102-mt -> libqt3 transition ? 
[10:53] <\sh> if there is any package left? UnmetDeps :)
[10:56] <pef> \sh: I'm not sure of the work to do for the transation. Updating the dependency and verifying the package builds correctly right ?
[10:56] <\sh> or simple rebuild to check if it's not ftbfsing...
[10:57] <\sh> if it's ftbfsing create a patch for upstream and provide a debdiff :)
[10:58] <pef> what does that exactly means "These need love" ?
[10:58] <\sh> they need to be huged :)
[11:00] <pef> so if I want to take care of a package, I have to add myself to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps under "Done", right ?
[11:01] <\sh> no..done only then if it's really done (uploaded and build)
[11:02] <pef> ok, thanks ;)
[11:07] <pef> \sh: another question, I've updated perl modules packages which were almost empty, and setting the priority to high, is it correct ?
[11:16] <\sh> i don't think it matters...ping some of the buildd guys...if the prio flag is used
[12:19] <\sh> Riddell: arts build...kdelibs4 not
[01:24] <\sh> kdelibs4 ppc+i386 
[02:29] <\sh> now for kdebin ,-)
[03:23] <venda> If you were to write a section on using debconf with frontends in what context would you do so within the outline of an Administration Guide?
[03:27] <Riddell> package installation?
[03:31] <venda> Software Management
[03:31] <Riddell> sounds good
[03:31] <venda>    Introduction to Debconf
[03:31] <venda>    Debconf Frontends
[03:32] <venda> Creating your Own Packages
[03:32] <venda>  ...
[03:32] <venda>    .
[03:32] <venda> How does that look, Logical?
[03:33] <Riddell> looks good
[03:34] <venda> Argh but what about D-I auto
[03:34] <venda> need to know that
[03:35] <venda> comes before software management
[03:35] <venda> D-I auto uses debconf.cfg
[04:14] <venda> can anyone define for me what the "enterprise edition" of Ubuntu is?
[04:15] <Riddell> venda: a version with support for 3 years for desktop apps and 5 years for server apps
[04:15] <Riddell> venda: version 6.4 will have enterprise support
[04:15] <Riddell> other versions have just 1.5 years support
[04:15] <venda> Ah ha hence Ubuntu Foundation
[04:15] <venda> thanks
[04:16] <Riddell> don't think ubuntu foundation has anything much to do with it
[04:16] <Riddell> they were just announced at the same time
[04:16] <venda> is there any difference on an"enterprise edition?"
[04:17] <venda> or is it just an SLA
[04:17] <Riddell> it's just how long it's supported for
[04:18] <venda> So how does define having an enterprise edition or the community edition?
[04:18] <venda> how do I know when my server is considered to be under enterprise edition?
[04:18] <Riddell> they're the same thing
[04:19] <venda> exactly
[04:19] <Riddell> yes
[04:19] <venda> right
[04:19] <Riddell> (k)ubuntu makes released every 6 months
[04:19] <venda> yes
[04:19] <Riddell> generally they have 18 months of support (security updates etc)
[04:19] <venda> yes
[04:19] <Riddell> every few releases we'll say "this is an enterprise release" meaning it has longer support
[04:20] <venda> So everyone that installs it gets longer support :-)
[04:20] <Riddell> yes
[04:20] <venda> gee the whole user base will do that :-)
[04:21] <Riddell> they're free to, but a lot (most?) users will always want the latest and greatest so they'll update every 6 months
[04:22] <venda> Ah so its a semantic of the individual/entities preferences
[04:22] <venda> Hmm that is clever
[04:23] <venda> Thanks for that
[04:25] <venda> Riddle is "Enteprise Edition" and "Community Edition" the correct terminology use din reference to the two editions?
[04:28] <Riddell> don't think so
[04:28] <venda> So what is the six month edition called?
[04:30] <Riddell> there is only the six month edition
[04:30] <Riddell> that's the only releases there are
[04:30] <Riddell> some of them will have 5 year support, most will have 18 month support
[04:30] <venda> yes that I understand
[04:30] <Riddell> the announcement didn't use the word "enterprise" at all, I'm most impressed
[04:31] <venda> but if a release is not an enteprise edition, then what is it
[04:31] <Riddell> the announcement uses "extended support"
[04:31] <venda> from ubuntulinux.org home page
[04:31] <venda> Ubuntu will always be free of charge, and there is no extra fee for the "enterprise edition", we make our very best work available to everyone on the same Free terms.
[04:31] <Riddell> that's just a dig at Red Hat
[04:32] <Riddell> it's been there since ubuntu launched, doesn't refer to any actual item callead  "enterprise edition"
[04:32] <venda> :-) Ok I did not get it, now I understand
[04:33] <venda> So could we say standard support editions and extended support editions?
[04:33] <Riddell> yep
[04:33] <venda> nice I like it WHOO HA!
[05:19] <\sh> Riddell: did u punch kdebin to the buildds?
[05:19] <Riddell> \sh: I still can't install anything due to broken xbase-clients
[05:20] <\sh> argl..depending on it
[06:21] <venda> Will breezy have any cluster technologies
[06:22] <Riddell> venda: meaning what?
[06:22] <venda> Accepted redhat-cluster-suite 1.20050704-0ubuntu1 (source)
[06:25] <Riddell> guess so then :)
[06:25] <venda> yeah looks like :-)
[08:44] <pef> bye !
[09:19] <tvo> Riddell: anything we need to discuss before I leave?  maybe SoC objective instead of kfind..
[09:22] <Mez> Riddell: shouldn't the kde help sysztem depend on htdig, as it uses it to index everythign?
[10:34] <tvo>  I'll be back the 1st of August..
[11:00] <tvo> bye all!