[12:04] <Nafallo> hmm, anyone got that video with mdz and sabdfl that got blogged @ planet.debian.org?
[12:04] <Nafallo> seems the link doesn't work anymore
[12:05] <Gnobody> when was it posted?
[12:06] <Nafallo> 2005-07-16 08.07.00
[12:06] <Nafallo> Joey Hess: thanks..
[12:06] <Amaranth> wow, classpath has 1mil lines of code
[12:08] <Amaranth> Gnobody: I don't need naked pictures of cristina scabbia, I have 1 million lines of code!
[12:08] <Amaranth> :0
[12:10] <Gnobody> yes and in that world there are two sexes; emacs, and vi
[12:11] <eruin> then tell me what nano is!
[12:16] <highvoltage> there was an announcement about an ubuntu-artwork team. is there a wiki/web page about it somewhere? (sorry, lost original email)
[12:17] <JanC> yes
[12:17] <mdke> ArtworkTeam
[12:17] <mdke> or ArtTeam
[12:17] <JanC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtTeam
[12:17] <mdke> (the wiki search is really good btw)
[12:18] <highvoltage> i just seemed to have entered the wrong keywords.
[12:20] <mdke> fair enough
[12:21] <bddebian> Nano R0x! :-)
[12:27] <lamont> Connecting to archive.ubuntu.com[82.211.81.151] :80... failed: Connection refused.
[12:27] <lamont> feh
[12:27] <Amaranth> http://www.pumuki.org/?q=node/119
[12:27] <Amaranth> owned.
[12:43] <sladen> Nafallo: I saw it on somebody's laptop here before it got uploaded, I forget who it was though
[01:01] <pef_aw> bye !
[01:28] <Riddell> daniels: libxcursor still mentions libXrender.la, can I do an upload to fix that?
[01:30] <seb128> I've already uploaded a xcursor package 2 days ago
[01:30] <seb128> you should better ping a buildd guy to know why there is no build log for it
[01:31] <seb128> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/x/xcursor/
[01:31] <mitsuhiko> dcop, bonobo and dbus do the same thing, will dbus get standard?
[01:31] <seb128> there is no build for the 1.1.4 packages
[01:31] <seb128> they don't do the same thing
[01:31] <Riddell> lamont: back from your wanderings?
[01:32] <mitsuhiko> seb128: they can do the same thing
[01:32] <seb128> no
[01:32] <seb128> dbus is not a bonobo replacement
[01:32] <mitsuhiko> hm. ok
[01:32] <seb128> it's simpler
[01:32] <mitsuhiko> bonobo is simpler?
[01:32] <seb128> no, dbus
[01:32] <Riddell> mitsuhiko: dbus will replace dcop if someone can make nice enough bindings for KDE
[01:33] <Riddell> bindings as nice as dcop has :)
[01:33] <mitsuhiko> thanks for the informations
[01:33] <mitsuhiko> so I can use bonobo for my python project
[01:33] <seb128> depending of what you try to do
[01:33] <seb128> if dbus does what you want better to use it
[01:33] <seb128> bonobo is beeing dropped because it's to complex to use
[01:34] <mitsuhiko> so bonobo is dying?
[01:34] <seb128> I would not say that
[01:34] <seb128> he's standing where it is
[01:34] <seb128> but new code is not using it
[01:34] <mitsuhiko> ok. thx
[01:35] <seb128> np
[01:35] <mitsuhiko> my problem is that i'm using hoary at the moment and there is the old dbus api which is not compatible to the new one
[01:35] <Riddell> xcursor is dep-wait pkg-config but pkg-config is installed fine
[01:35] <Riddell> tsk
[01:36] <\sh> grmpf
[01:36] <seb128> where do you get the dep-wait?
[01:36] <Riddell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/breezy.all.i386
[01:36] <seb128> thanks
[01:37] <seb128> probably needs lamont to poke it
[01:37] <Riddell> wake up infinity, fix xcursor so me and seb128 can go to bed :)
[01:37] <seb128> that too :)
[01:37] <Riddell> 23:31  * lamont wanders off
[01:38] <seb128> bah
[01:40] <\sh> so..we should go and sleep....today is another day to kick
[01:40] <\sh> oh 
[01:40] <\sh> esc+4 != esc+5
[01:41] <\sh> anyways...off to bed
[02:49] <OddAbe19> hey, when I do make on a program i do the following:  ./configure 'CFLAGS=-march=athlon-xp -pipe -O3' 'build=i686-linux' 'CXXFLAGS=-march=athlon-xp -pipe -O3' 'build_alias=i686-linux'
[02:49] <OddAbe19> how do i point it to gcc 4
[02:49] <OddAbe19> with make not ./configure
[02:49] <bob2> you use breezy, which has gcc 4.0 as the default
[02:49] <bob2> using gcc 4.0 with c++ code on hoary will break
[02:49] <OddAbe19> i have gcc 4 installed through backports
[02:50] <bob2> that'll work awesomely then
[02:50] <bob2> but as above
[02:50] <OddAbe19> i don't have to do a 'gcc=4'?
[02:51] <bob2> if this program involves C++ code, you can't use gcc 4.0, sorryy
[02:51] <bob2> unless it's so simple it uses nothing but libstdc++
[02:51] <OddAbe19> na, it's gimp
[02:51] <OddAbe19> lol
[02:51] <OddAbe19> i'm working on a more optimized version for distribution
[02:52] <OddAbe19> and i hope all those options will work like that, it has in the past
[02:52] <bob2> then set the C compiler when running ./configure
[02:53] <bob2> you're doing benchmarks to find if gcc 4.0 is usefully faster?
[02:53] <OddAbe19> so, do this instead?  ./configure 'CFLAGS=-march=athlon-xp -pipe -O3' 'build=i686-linux' 'CXXFLAGS=-march=athlon-xp -pipe -O3' 'build_alias=i686-linux' 'gcc=4.0'
[02:53] <bob2> no
[02:53] <OddAbe19> no, i just want to make an athon/i686 optimized version of it
[02:54] <bob2> ./configure 'CFLAGS=-march=athlon-xp -pipe -O3' 'build=i686-linux' 'CXXFLAGS=-march=athlon-xp -pipe -O3' CC=gcc-4.0
[02:54] <OddAbe19> with O3
[02:54] <bob2> er...
[02:54] <bob2> if you're not planning to see if it's faster, what's the point?
[02:54] <OddAbe19> well, a little of both
[02:54] <mdke> i can't seem to download my breezy packages: get connection refused from the various archives.ubuntu.com I've tried. Does anyone know what might be up?
[02:55] <bob2> OddAbe19: I mean "what's the point of making your own k7-specific package if it's not actually faster?"
[02:55] <OddAbe19> it sort of is, loads faster
[02:55] <OddAbe19> and some of the plugins work better
[02:55] <OddAbe19> that's why
[02:55] <OddAbe19> it's because i'm a speed whore and want to get every last bit
[02:55] <OddAbe19> lol
[02:56] <bob2> ah, so, you have benchmarked it and found it faster
[02:56] <OddAbe19> meh
[02:56] <OddAbe19> lol
[02:56] <OddAbe19> if by benchmark you mean stopwatch
[02:56] <OddAbe19> lol
[02:56] <OddAbe19> human error
[02:56] <OddAbe19> tenth of seconds faster
[02:56] <OddAbe19> but i'm a speed whore
[02:59] <carstenh> OddAbe19: how much time do you spend to optimize your system?
[03:00] <OddAbe19> not much
[03:00] <OddAbe19> just most packages i use usually
[03:00] <OddAbe19> and my kernel
[03:45] <tseng> "my name is nikolai, and I'm that annoying guy who keeps pushing his idea of a new logo/mascot for ubuntu: the medicine mask!"
[03:45] <tseng> speachless.
[03:47] <sladen> tseng: -devel/-users?
[03:47] <slomo> tseng: lol
[03:47] <tseng> sladen: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2005-July/thread.html
[03:47] <tseng> sladen: he posted in triplicate (html)
[03:48] <tseng> THE MASK CONQUERS ALL
[03:48] <bob2> ugo: the list, not the channel
[03:49] <ugo> im not pasting anything here bob2
[03:49] <ugo> jeeze...lighten up
[03:49] <tseng> bob2 is the channel hammer dude
[03:49] <sladen> oh, in an HTML stripped part, even better
[03:50] <ugo> yeah he did a fine job on two "sweethearts" about an hr ago
[03:59] <Amaranth> cool, debian's udev problem got resolved
[04:04] <Amaranth> sabdfl and mdz got drunk and started dancing together? i can't see the video, it's gone
[04:04] <bddebian> Hmm
[04:29] <lamont> eh?
[04:30] <lamont> Riddell: what do you need poked?
[04:31] <lamont> xcursor.  rigth.
[04:31] <lamont> dep-wait cleared.
[04:38] <ugo> *blinks*
[04:39] <ugo> so sorry to disturb but does anyone know if its possible to have gcc3 and gcc4 on the same box
[04:39] <Amaranth> aye
[04:39] <bddebian> Should be fine
[04:39] <Amaranth> I have /usr/bin/gcc-4.0 and /usr/bin/gcc-3.4
[04:40] <ugo> Armanath im guessing this isn't the proverbial aptitude install
[04:40] <TerminX> daniels: you have an ETA on the xdpyinfo/xhost/xrandr/xsetmode/xsetpointer packages?
[04:40] <Amaranth> TerminX: Next week, maybe.
[04:41] <TerminX> d'oh
[04:41] <TerminX> I thought that he'd said "tomorrow" when asked about it yesterday
[04:41] <TerminX> I guess I was mistaken :)
[04:43] <seth_k> btw that Nikolai guy is insane, the medicine mask guy. He does not understand the concept of mailing lists at all
[04:43] <seth_k> plus his mask sucks, because 1) it's too complex for a logo, 2) it doesn't represent Ubuntu, 3) it is rather stereotypical, 4) it is ugly (opinion)
[04:45] <sladen> seth_k: the artwork itself is good.  Whether it fits is, as your say, another matter
[09:54] <Amaranth> do you guys agree with this: "If 'Aunt Tilly' needs to use distutils we've already failed."?
[09:54] <Burgundavia> probably
[09:54] <bob2> python distutils?
[09:55] <Amaranth> yeah
[09:55] <jdub> Amaranth: is aunt tilly a web developer?
[09:55] <jdub> (or above)
[09:55] <Amaranth> no, aunt tilly is esr's fictional end-user
[09:56] <Amaranth> she _might_ know what firefox is
[09:56] <jdub> end users can be low end developers
[09:56] <Amaranth> maybe
[09:56] <Amaranth> if her nephew has explained it to her more than once
[09:56] <jdub> but if she's specifically not, then yes, it's absolutely insane
[09:56] <Burgundavia> jdub, can you give me a quick opinion on the wiki page death I just sent to the -devel list?
[09:57] <Amaranth> Basically if someone knows what distutils is, they should know how to get it or how to get help.
[09:57] <Amaranth> If they don't know what it is and need to use it, we've failed.
[09:57] <jdub> Burgundavia: dunno
[09:58] <Burgundavia> jdub, that was quick but no exactly what I was looking for ;)
[09:59] <jdub> you're not really asking the right person
[09:59] <Burgundavia> who should I ask?
[10:03] <jdub> Burgundavia: you've posted your question to the right list
[10:03] <jdub> "It's target audience is high school students and Refugees."
[10:03] <jdub> ^ awesome
[10:03] <jdub> that is one heck of a target market specification
[10:03] <daniels> that apostrophe is grating on my eyeballs
[10:04] <Treenaks> jdub: second-hand bookstore?
[10:04] <Burgundavia> jdub, cheers and I understand you just got back from japan
[10:05] <jdub> Burgundavia: i did? rad.
[10:05] <Burgundavia> oh
[10:05] <Burgundavia> did you enjoy your non-trip?
[10:06] <Treenaks> someone really needs to fix the launchpad SSL key
[10:06] <jdub> Treenaks: ubuntu lite
[10:07] <Treenaks> jdub: Cool
[10:17] <fabbione> morning
[10:19] <fabbione> jdub: ping?
[10:29] <madduck> when and where is ubuntuconf? is there a url?
[10:29] <bob2> not announced yet
[10:29] <madduck> mh, ok.
[10:46] <pef> hi
[11:14] <davyd> hey, does anyone have links to an amd64 binary for xbase-clients -36?
[11:16] <davyd> ok, possibly ignore me on that front
[11:17] <Amaranth> hehe
[11:17] <Amaranth> still need it?
[11:18] <davyd> I didn't get around to fixing it last night
[11:18] <davyd> I saw the xlibs links though, now I just need to grab them
[11:18] <davyd> mmm, w3m
[11:18] <Amaranth> ok...
[11:19] <Amaranth> still need it?
[11:19] <Amaranth> yes or no please, it's 4am
[11:19] <Amaranth> doesn't matter anyway, morgue.ubuntu.com doesn't have them
[11:20] <davyd> morgue seems to be dead
[11:20] <Amaranth> yeah
[11:21] <davyd> ok, I seem to have found them
[11:21] <Amaranth> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/x/xorg/xbase-clients_6.8.2-36_amd64.deb
[11:21] <Amaranth> err
[11:21] <Amaranth> oh yeah, the amd64 buildds fell over
[11:21] <Amaranth> you shouldn't have any problem on amd64, it looks like the latest X you have is -36 anyway
[11:22] <davyd> yeah, except for xlibs
[11:22] <davyd> which is arch 'all'
[11:22] <Amaranth> xlibs -42 is fine here?
[11:22] <Amaranth> wait, no it isn't
[11:22] <Amaranth> -41 was
[11:22] <daniels> -42 shouldn't be any more broken than -41, certainly
[11:22] <daniels> at least, I don't think
[11:23] <Amaranth> but xlibs is just a metapackage, isn't it?
[11:23] <daniels> davyd: if it's any consolation, my laptop is stuck in console mode, my amd64 won't accept any keyboard input, and my powerpc is also in the console
[11:23] <Amaranth> i guess that's great motivation to fix something though :D
[11:23] <daniels> yeah -- specifically, the modular server
[11:24] <daniels> which I'm fixing now
[11:24] <Amaranth> btw, are the all changes you're making going into xorg cvs?
[11:24] <daniels> trying to track down exactly how gcc4 miscompiles i810_drv.o, making the modular server happy with big-endian machines, and stuff
[11:24] <daniels> yeah, they are
[11:24] <Amaranth> gcc bugs are always fun
[11:24] <davyd> daniels ; are you in Melbourne at the moment?
[11:24] <Amaranth> did it work on 4.0.0?
[11:24] <daniels> davyd: yeah
[11:25] <davyd> daniels ; someone said you weren't
[11:25] <daniels> Amaranth: pretty sure it didn't
[11:25] <davyd> daniels ; is there some sort of mail order liquor store in Melbourne?
[11:25] <daniels> davyd: uhm nope, I've been here for a fair while now
[11:25] <daniels> davyd: since LinuxTag
[11:25] <daniels> davyd: not that I'm aware of ...
[11:25] <davyd> daniels ; hmm
[11:26] <davyd> I was going to send you a sixpack, but I'm too stingy to fedex it from Perth
[11:26] <daniels> haha
[11:26] <daniels> dude
[11:26] <daniels> what for?
[11:26] <davyd> daniels ; because I said I would, and you refused to fix my Xserver till I do
[11:26] <cat> hey everyone
[11:26] <davyd> and maybe then you'd feel guilty and drunk
[11:26] <davyd> and perhaps you'd fix it
[11:27] <davyd> I need to buy more Squire, so that I can read chapters 2, 3 and 5 of the fucking story
[11:27] <davyd> because my six-pack only had chapters 1, 4 and 6
[11:27] <davyd> twice!
[11:28] <davyd> also, it seems wrong to be using a console on a 20" LCD screen
[11:28] <davyd> daniels ; what's your ETA for getting some sanity into this?
[11:29] <davyd> that seems to be messing up my dependancy tree pretty bad
[11:30] <\sh> amd64?
[11:30] <\sh> it's out of order..,-)
[11:30] <daniels> davyd: amd64's buildds are all dead
[11:30] <fabbione> go GCC-4.0 it's your birthday!
[11:30] <davyd> daniels ; oh man, still?
[11:31] <daniels> davyd: well, elmo's been on holiday ...
[11:31] <daniels> davyd: making xbase-clients and xlibs installable are my first priorities, bugger everything else
[11:31] <davyd> daniels ; righto
[11:31] <daniels> i'm forecasting tuesday
[11:31] <davyd> I can start building things
[11:31] <davyd> do source packages still get updated when the binaries don't?
[11:31] <daniels> because at this stage, I need to modularise every single remaining library before xdpyinfo can be built
[11:33] <davyd> excelltn, now I can install gdm
[11:33] <davyd> I feel like a gentoo user
[11:34] <\sh> davyd: oh u r using this funny little filemanager as well? *lol*
[11:35] <davyd> hmm?
[11:35] <davyd> how hard is it to set up a buildd?
[11:35] <Amaranth> http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/x11/gentoo
[11:36] <davyd> oh, I know about that thingy
[11:37] <davyd> I almost installed fc4 on this machine
[11:37] <Amaranth> disturbingly ugly
[11:37] <davyd> because it has the tools I need
[11:37] <eruin> should I create an enh.bug on the ubuntu bugzilla if I'd like to see some added functionality for shares-admin ?
[11:37] <Amaranth> naughty!
[11:37] <davyd> but I would have no idea how to install Mono on it
[11:37] <davyd> or a chroot
[11:37] <davyd> dchroot and debootstrap are wonderful tools
[11:37] <eruin> or should I take the discussion to the seemingly dead system-tools list on mail.gnome?
[11:38] <davyd> eruin ; why not file it in the GNOME bugzilla?
[11:38] <\sh> davyd: it's funny that u can do a `emerge debootstrap` on Gentoo ,-)
[11:38] <eruin> that's probably the best now that you mention it :)
[11:38] <davyd> \sh ; does it work the same?
[11:38] <davyd> ie. install a Debian chroot?
[11:38] <\sh> davyd: yes 
[11:38] <Treenaks> \sh: any idea why wine is still uninstallable in breezy?
[11:38] <Treenaks> \sh: (the GLU mess?)
[11:38] <Amaranth> daniels: i thought you said you could only get xbase-clients done by tuesday if you worked non-stop through the weekend and didn't have any problems
[11:39] <\sh> treenaks: it builds ... lemme check
[11:39] <davyd> I didn't realise how patched Fedora was till I started using it at work
[11:39] <eruin> Treenaks, its due to xorg being broken
[11:39] <Treenaks> eruin: GLU madness
[11:39] <Amaranth> Yeah, blame everything on xorg being broken!
[11:39] <Amaranth> :)
[11:39] <davyd> but it did ship with GCC-4.0, which was a nice touch
[11:39] <eruin> xrandr not split out etc
[11:39] <Treenaks> Amaranth: but wasn't xorg broken because of GTK boogz?
[11:39] <\sh> treenaks: i will give it a punch in the face...now
[11:39] <Amaranth> haha
[11:40] <Treenaks> \sh: \o/
[11:40] <\sh> or me?
[11:40] <Amaranth> "it's a bug in GTK" then it got fixed in xorg :)
[11:40] <Treenaks> \sh: I'm building the current source locally now.. see if it works
[11:40] <davyd> daniels ; non the less, if you locate some sort of online beer mail order system, located in fair Melbourne, let me know
[11:40] <\sh> no I don't blame anybody for doing mistakes...
[11:40] <eruin> davyd, oooh, no more leaving the house?
[11:40] <Amaranth> davyd: That'd be stupid, kids would be ordering beer.
[11:41] <daniels> davyd: heh, sure
[11:41] <davyd> dude, this is Australia
[11:41] <eruin> kids can already buy beer :p
[11:41] <davyd> kids already buy beer
[11:41] <davyd> you see them on the foreshore drinking EB
[11:41] <daniels> Amaranth: i think if I work non-stop through monday and tuesday with no problems, I can sort it
[11:41] <Burgundavia> any timeframe on the new live/install work landing?
[11:41] <daniels> Amaranth: i'm actually using my weekend as a weekend; it's novel
[11:41] <davyd> thankfully they stopped making Swan Gold
[11:41] <daniels> (hacking on the modular server instead)
[11:41] <Amaranth> daniels: wtf are you doing on IRC then?
[11:42] <Amaranth> haha
[11:42] <daniels> davyd: eep, swan is terrible
[11:42] <daniels> Amaranth: sucker for punishment
[11:42] <\sh> hmm
[11:42] <Amaranth> this exa stuff seems pretty buggy
[11:42] <davyd> daniels ; exactly
[11:43] <Amaranth> eek, i accidently found the detach tab keyboard shortcut in xchat
[11:43] <\sh> strange dependency
[11:43] <davyd> ctrl-I
[11:43] <Amaranth> whew
[11:43] <Amaranth> i couldn't get it back
[11:44] <davyd> the problem with working in open source is that the idea of a weekend becomes blurred
[11:44] <\sh> aye
[11:44] <Nafallo> hmm
[11:44] <davyd> I am experiencing a similar problem with this working from home thing
[11:44] <\sh> mesa-common-dev
[11:44] <Amaranth> weekends are when your users will bitch the most
[11:44] <\sh> is seriously b0rked
[11:44] <Nafallo> my rhythmbox craches ;-)
[11:44] <davyd> brilliant idea, write it down, explore it a bit, find you've implemented it
[11:44] <Amaranth> Nafallo: Mine plays the flute.
[11:44] <Nafallo> or really, it crashes :-)
[11:44] <\sh> ok...fixing first the mesa deps in mesa-common-dev
[11:45] <davyd> hmm, it's always the -data packages
[11:45] <Nafallo> Amaranth: I'm on amd64, I guess I build it locally soonisch :-)
[11:45] <eruin> anyone here have xbase-clients -36 ?
[11:45] <davyd> the buildd dies and it all goes to shit
[11:45] <davyd> because there are still new -data packages
[11:45] <Amaranth> haha
[11:45] <Amaranth> someone has a mirror of them too
[11:46] <Amaranth> if you can find them in the logs
[11:46] <Nafallo> Amaranth: baah, I got a pbuilder :-). the only problem is getting source over this crappy ADSL of mine ;-)
[11:47] <Amaranth> Nafallo: i meant xlibs-data 6.8.2-36 :)
[11:47] <Nafallo> Amaranth: ahh *s*
[11:47] <Amaranth> my muine and rhythmbox both suck
[11:47] <Amaranth> something somewhere forgot to check for errors
[11:47] <eruin> grab sonance cvs :)
[11:47] <cat> well, i wanna help out two (:
[11:47] <Amaranth> probably in id3 reading, everyone seems to suck at that
[11:48] <Amaranth> sonance cvs starts, randomly
[11:48] <eruin> ehehe
[11:48] <Amaranth> i mean, sometimes i get a real GUI, sometimes i get half a gui overlapping itself
[11:48] <Amaranth> that is insensitive
[11:48] <eruin> that's cute
[11:48] <Amaranth> but some of the things still prelight
[11:48] <Burgundavia> daniels, when should I start reporting X autoconfig regression bugs?
[11:49] <cat> hey if i want to help out packaging what should i do?
[11:49] <Burgundavia> cat, talk to the people in #ubuntu-motu
[11:49] <Amaranth> cat: join the MOTU :)
[11:49] <Nafallo> cat: basically repeat that sentence in #ubuntu-motu :-)
[11:49] <cat> alright (:
[11:50] <\sh> hmmm...
[11:50] <\sh> actually...
[11:50] <\sh> I know where this comes from...
[11:50] <\sh> wine_0.0.20050628 is not in the archives..
[11:51] <\sh> the source yes...but not the binaries
[11:51] <Treenaks> \sh: then there was a build error
[11:51] <\sh> no
[11:51] <Treenaks> no?
[11:51] <\sh> it's in new i think
[11:51] <Treenaks> \sh: wine is already packaged.. how can it be in NEW
[11:52] <Treenaks> \sh: it should just replace it
[11:52] <\sh> no...i will replace a lot of old bins...and I think it's stucked somewhere
[11:52] <\sh> i386 is build
[11:52] <\sh> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/w/wine/0.0.20050628-1/
[11:54] <\sh> Treenaks: have the same problem with gfccore 
[11:56] <\sh> but it's a good time to upload it with the right version number ,-)
[12:15] <\sh> guys...can anyone approve my theory, that right now, "empty the trash" in gnome is not working?
[12:17] <Amaranth> you have something in there you aren't allowed to delete?
[12:17] <chris`> \sh, in my breezy it works fine...
[12:18] <\sh> hmmm...
[12:18] <\sh> Amaranth: no
[12:18] <\sh> oh
[12:18] <\sh> moment
[12:18] <\sh> funny
[12:18] <littlepaul> \sh it works for me too
[12:19] <\sh> empty trash doesn't update the trash ...clicking on the files with the right mb..disappeared...strane
[12:20] <\sh> can someone kick kdelibs4 again,pls?
[12:41] <\sh> moins pitti
[12:41] <sivang> pitti: Hey Martin :-)
[12:42] <Mithrandir> pitti: do you have pmount in a baz archive somewhere?
[12:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: it's in bzr
[12:43] <Mithrandir> pitti: hm, ok.
[12:43] <pitti> Mithrandir: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/bzr/pmount
[12:43] <Mithrandir> pitti: shame you left already, I wanted to discuss some stuff about mmount with you.  Basically what hooks would be good for you to have.
[12:44] <sivang> Mithrandir: mmount the successor to pmount? :-)
[12:44] <Mithrandir> sivang: no, the modular mount which is the successor to the current mount.
[12:44] <Mithrandir> hopefully.
[12:47] <pitti> Mithrandir: so far I need hooks for "authentication" (removable, fstab, /etc/pmount.allow) and some device map checks (is a device encrypted and devmapper needs to be set up?)
[12:47] <Mithrandir> pitti: pmount shouldn't care about encrypted stuff, that should be a luks plugin.
[12:47] <Mithrandir> pitti: plugins should be stackable
[12:48] <Mithrandir> have to run now, I'll be back in half an hour or so
[12:57] <jdthood> pitti: I want to reassign a bug.  In what package would a new button on System|Preferences|Sound be implemented?
[12:58] <pitti> jdthood: I think it's control-center
[12:58] <jdthood> k
[12:59] <jdthood> There is also a 'gnome-control-center'.  Not that, eh?
[12:59] <Burgundavia> jdthood, that is it
[12:59] <jdthood> thanks
[01:04] <shackan_> hi pitti 
[01:05] <\sh> I wonder if it's possible to build wine on amd64
[01:12] <davyd> hmm, I still can't start X
[01:13] <\sh> davyd: fixed font?
[01:13] <davyd> \sh ; wine will work in a chroot, I don't like your chances of making it work in 64-bit
[01:13] <\sh> davyd: no..i mean using 32bit compat libs for amd64 e.g.
[01:14] <ogra> \sh, just building it...
[01:14] <\sh> ogra: nice :)
[01:15] <\sh> looking at the time...
[01:15] <ogra> \sh, lets see.... needs about 100 pkgs not in my pbuilder yet
[01:15] <ogra> meh
[01:15] <ogra> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/x/xorg/libxaw7_6.8.2-34_amd64.deb 
[01:16] <davyd> hmm, I don't like the error that Xorg is giving me
[01:17] <davyd> failed to load module keyboard
[01:17] <davyd> failed to load module mouse
[01:17] <davyd> failed to load module nvidia
[01:17] <\sh> change "keyboard" to "kbd"
[01:17] <pitti> Hi shackan_ 
[01:18] <davyd> \sh ; where does this change come from?
[01:19] <davyd> this is xorg-36
[01:19] <\sh> oh..
[01:19] <\sh> I have -42 
[01:19] <\sh> yeah...-36 should be keyboard
[01:20] <davyd> hmm, it's a bit strange
[01:20] <Nafallo> I got -36 and has to use kbd, fwiw
[01:20] <davyd> well, what about the other two?
[01:21] <davyd> incidently 'kbd' doesn't fix it
[01:21] <Nafallo> davyd: you will want xserver-xorg-input-{kbd,mouse}
[01:22] <davyd> aah, nice
[01:22] <Nafallo> xserver-xorg-driver-nv should be nvidia :-)
[01:22] <tseng> +1 funny
[01:25] <davyd> ok, so I have everything bar whatever is needed to make nvidia work
[01:27] <davyd> which is nicely uninstallable
[01:27] <ogra> davyd, that in l-r-m .... we dont have it yet
[01:27] <ogra> thats even
[01:28] <davyd> ogra ; I built the kernel module by hand
[01:28] <ogra> ah
[01:28] <davyd> using make-kpkg, the old fashioned way
[01:28] <davyd> nvidia-glx appears to have what I want, I might have to have a crack at building it later
[01:28] <ogra> \sh, wine with gcc4 seems not to work on amd64
[01:28] <ogra> checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
[01:29] <\sh> ogra: hmmm....
[01:29] <davyd> ogra ; check config.log
[01:29] <davyd> you may be missing libraries
[01:29] <ogra> davyd, yes... sadly my pbuilder doesnt keep config.log....
[01:29] <tseng> wine works on !x86?
[01:29] <Amaranth> ha, no
[01:29] <Amaranth> it _might_ work on amd64 compiled as a 32-bit app though
[01:29] <\sh> --enable-win64          build a Win64 emulator on AMD64 (won't run Win32 binaries)
[01:30] <ogra> tseng, they *wanted* to make it work on amd64 and ppc, but i havent heard about it yet, so we are trying
[01:30] <Amaranth> worthless
[01:30] <\sh> but this is not
[01:30] <\sh> I want to have a wine for adm64 running 32bit win apps
[01:30] <Amaranth> the darwine project is the only thing i know about as far as ppc goes
[01:31] <Amaranth> doesn't that require a 32-bit xserver and everything else wine uses?
[01:31] <\sh> what are the 32bit compat libs for amd64 to run 32bit apps?
[01:31] <ogra> ia32-libs ?
[01:33] <\sh> ogra: put it into the b-d ,-) what ever
[01:34] <ogra> i'm just trying to figure out where the -m32 compilerflag comes from... 
[01:34] <ogra> probably disabling that is enough
[01:35] <\sh> configure.ac
[01:35] <\sh> if test "x$enable_win64" != "xyes"
[01:35] <\sh>     then
[01:35] <\sh>       test -n "$CC" || CC="gcc -m32"
[01:36] <\sh> and ff
[01:37] <ogra> aa
[01:41] <davyd> I think you'll need to run wine as a 32-bit binary
[01:41] <davyd> else how will you link into 32-bit windows DLLs?
[01:42] <Treenaks> davyd: the same way windows itself does that ?
[01:42] <Treenaks> davyd: (the 64-bit windows thing)
[01:44] <davyd> treenaks, last time I played with 64-bit windows it was (a) crack and (b) didn't run 32-bit code
[01:44] <davyd> I wonder if they've fixed it
[01:45] <Treenaks> davyd: Windows is crack anyway..
[01:46] <davyd> hmm, I need a new xlibmesa-glu
[01:46] <davyd> which apparently means I need the X.org source
[01:46] <davyd> I guess that's why it's being modularized
[01:48] <tseng> davyd: heh, known issue that my battery applet goes up to 135% now?
[01:48] <davyd> tseng ; are you using the HAL backend?
[01:48] <davyd> it seems to do exciting things
[01:49] <tseng> hm I guess
[01:49] <Treenaks> tseng: it's just a very good battery ;)
[01:49] <ogra> tseng, battery applet will go...
[01:49] <davyd> rather then copy our battery code, that took years to work around all the shitty bugs
[01:49] <ogra> tseng, we'll have gnome-power
[01:49] <davyd> they've started again
[01:49] <davyd> so they're getting all the same issues
[01:50] <davyd> gnome-power or PowerManager or whatever they've now called it, shouldn't have an applet
[01:50] <ogra> davyd, do you use richard huges' acpi backend in HAL ?
[01:50] <davyd> it should just be a policy system
[01:50] <davyd> ogra ; I think he wrote a heap of it
[01:50] <ogra> davyd, yes... i was wondering if you use this for your applet
[01:51] <Amaranth> today's userfriendly rocks
[01:51] <Amaranth> http://www.userfriendly.org/
[01:51] <ogra> gnome-power has a notification area icon...for the battery... and uses libnotify now
[01:51] <ogra> \sh, wine throws a millon warnings about signedness, but compiles now :)
[01:52] <ogra> eeek
[01:53] <ogra> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lXext
[01:53] <ogra> GRRRR
[01:55] <sivang> anybody see seb128? knows if he's supposed to come back?
[01:55] <ogra> sivang, its sunday.... and the weather is nice....
[01:59] <davyd> yeah, we're using HAL now, but it might get backed out for 2.12
[01:59] <davyd> it's a little dodgy in places
[01:59] <davyd> but it does need testing
[02:00] <davyd> because it's our ultimate goal to lose the other backends
[02:02] <\sh> ogra: hihi
[02:03] <ogra> davyd, yep, HAL should be the center of the HW world...
[02:04] <sivang> ogra: hehe
[02:04] <sivang> ogra: so why aren't you out in the sun? :-)
[02:04] <ogra> sivang, i have a terrace with wlan ;)
[02:06] <ogra> \sh, sadly my pbuilder gets xlibs-dev -42 but all other X is -36 ..... so libxext is incompatible... wont work before the archive is in shape again :/
[02:09] <sivang> ogra: woo , makes me wanna come and visit you there even more :-)
[02:10] <ogra> its not as shiny as it appears, but .... :)
[02:15] <\sh> ogra: yep
[02:15] <Lathiat_> davyd: hal for what?
[02:16] <ogra> Lathiat_, *all* hardware interaction....
[02:16] <ogra> Lathiat_, in the curent case for battery monitoring....
[02:18] <Lathiat_> ogra: right, the problem is, gnome runs on !linux
[02:18] <Lathiat_> and hal runs on *linux
[02:18] <Lathiat_> right?
[02:18] <ogra> nope
[02:18] <ogra> hal also runs on solaris afaik... and they are porting it further....
[02:18] <Lathiat_> oh?
[02:19] <Lathiat_> didnt know that
[02:19] <Lathiat_> cool
[02:19] <ogra> note, i'm talking about CVS here.... 
[02:20] <jdthood> pitti: Good news and bad news.  Which do you want first?
[02:20] <Lathiat_> ogra: ya, cool none the less
[02:21] <pitti> jdthood: hard choice... good one?
[02:21] <jdthood> pitti: The good news is that I have added lsb init function support to the ALSA mixer-level restoring initscript, thus dispensing with the need to patch it.
[02:22] <pitti> yay
[02:22] <pitti> jdthood: you now detect for the lsb-init include file and use it if it's available?
[02:22] <jdthood> yep
[02:22] <pitti> jdthood: (that's what I did for postgresql-common)
[02:24] <Amaranth> http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/ <--i need one
[02:25] <jdthood> pitti: The bad news is that the initscript has been split into two.  /etc/init.d/alsa now does module (un|re)loading.  /etc/init.d/alsa-utils does mixer level restoring.  Hopefully this won't cause too many headaches.
[02:25] <jdthood> alsa-base and alsa-utils no longer Depend on each other.
[02:26] <mitsuhiko> Amaranth: wow. thats cool
[02:26] <pitti> jdthood: that should be fine, thanks for the notification
[02:26] <pitti> jdthood: shouldn't module loading be performed by hotplug?
[02:26] <ogra> Amaranth, the mouse is way ooler :)
[02:26] <ogra> cooler even
[02:27] <jdthood> pitti: Yes.
[02:27] <jdthood> pitt: /etc/init.d/alsa is no longer linked into the runlevel directories
[02:27] <Amaranth> ogra: haha, it's goofy
[02:27] <mitsuhiko> Arrogance: has this keyboard linux support?
[02:27] <jdthood> It gets called from alsa-modules* postinst and from /etc/apm/scripts.d/alsa
[02:28] <Amaranth> mitsuhiko: This keyboard isn't available yet.
[02:28] <Amaranth> mitsuhiko: They mention 'open-source' though.
[02:28] <jdthood> ... if the user has set "force_unload_modules_before_suspend" to something.
[02:28] <mitsuhiko> i want it :)
[02:41] <mitsuhiko> Amaranth: http://www.daskeyboard.com/ <== another good keyboard :)
[02:42] <Amaranth> http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/determinator/caller_id/ sneaky
[02:43] <mitsuhiko> Amaranth: don't understand a singel word :(
[02:43] <Amaranth> neither do i
[02:43] <Amaranth> it's a caller id
[02:43] <Amaranth> really small, patched right into the line
[02:44] <davyd> hmm, was it X.org 41 or 42 that was broken?
[03:14] <Amaranth> both
[03:18] <\sh> http://www.joachim-breitner.de/blog/archives/60-Launchpad,-Google-and-why-Microsoft-is-not-the-problem.html
[03:20] <\sh> cu later dudes..have to think about this...and have a shower :)
[03:36] <Amaranth> *yawn*
[03:36] <Amaranth> It's not Free so it might be evil.
[03:37] <Amaranth> It's obviously a conspiracy against the people of the world.
[04:04] <sivang> \sh: that's you're blog post?
[04:08] <Nafallo> sivang: naah, joachim breitner.
[04:09] <sivang> Nafallo: interesting mind excersize :-)
[04:10] <Nafallo> hehe
[04:29] <zyga> hello
[04:33] <LinuxJones> zyga, hiya
[05:04] <Seveas> is there a preseed expert in here who can answer a few simple wuestions?
[05:13] <\sh> sivang: no
[05:15] <sivang> \sh: sure, I guessed it already :-)
[05:18] <Seveas> it's JB's second 'attack' on Canonical/Ubuntu in one day :)
[05:19] <\sh> lol
[05:19] <\sh> they helping us...it's positiv ,-)
[05:19] <Nafallo> depends on how you look at it :-)
[05:20] <Seveas> the tone of the blogposts is quite negative though
[05:20] <Nafallo> the first one is something we want done and needs help with.
[05:20] <Nafallo> the second is more an attack on canonical than ubuntu ;-)
[05:21] <Seveas> so I guess there is no preseeding/d-i guy in here now..?
[05:21] <\sh> Nafallo: well...i wouldn't mind if matthew szulik and mark are sitting the next time together in a small restaurant and talking about kicking ms and sun 
[05:22] <\sh> but I think matthew is the wrong guy for it..lets talk to bob young :) 
[05:22] <Nafallo> \sh: :-)
[05:23] <\sh> a really nice star linux alliance between fedora and ubuntu / redhat and canonical 
[05:24] <Kamion> Seveas: maybe, though I'm mostly doing Debian stuff today
[05:27] <Seveas> Kamion, just 2 simple generic questions: if I install a package via apt-get in base-config/late-command, can I preseed it in the same file? And which task for tasksel installs ubuntu-base?
[05:27] <Seveas> (same file refers to the preseeding file)
[05:29] <Kamion> Seveas: 1) yes, you can; however it would be easier to preseed base-config/package-selection
[05:29] <Kamion> default value is ~tubuntu-standard|~tubuntu-desktop; it's an aptitude pattern, see the aptitude docs
[05:29] <Seveas> Kamion, ahhhh, that answers 2) too, simply install no packages with tasksel :)
[05:30] <Kamion> Seveas: 2) we do not use tasksel; debootstrap is called from base-installer and installs the base system
[05:30] <Seveas> thank you!
[05:30] <Kamion> tasksel isn't even in Ubuntu main, actually
[05:30] <Seveas> heh :)
[05:30] <Seveas> the installer manual does use it :)
[05:33] <Kamion> Seveas: mm, yeah, that would be out of date
[05:33] <Kamion> I've updated a lot of the manual, but not all of it
[05:33] <Seveas> does this also work for PXEboot installs?
[05:34] <Seveas> appendix C-1, the default preseeding file contains this info by the way (in case you are interested)
[05:41] <Kamion> Seveas: yes, no difference between cdrom and netboot there
[05:46] <Seveas> Kamion, once again: thanks very much!
[06:15] <fabbione> hmmm
[06:15] <fabbione> what package is lacking /usr/lib/libXrender.la ?
[06:16] <tuhl> what has to be done to fix the broken X? update the system? is this enough?
[06:16] <ogra> fabbione, libxrender-dev
[06:17] <fabbione> GRRR
[06:17] <fabbione> daniels: ???
[06:17] <ogra> yep
[06:17] <fabbione> it just made gcc-4.0 FTBFS after 10MB of log
[06:17] <ogra> gcc ?
[06:17] <fabbione> yes
[06:18] <ogra> why does it depend on xrender ?
[06:18] <fabbione> no gcc needs gtk that pulls in xrender somewhere as B-D and linking
[06:18] <ogra> err, and why does gcc need gtk ? seems somewhat strange
[06:19] <fabbione> it does.. ask doko :)
[06:19] <ogra> weird
[06:19] <fabbione> we also need to import slang2
[06:20] <fabbione> otherwise quite a bunch of pkgs in main are FTBFS
[06:20] <ogra> hmm...
[06:21] <ogra> sounds like there are other transitions waiting for universe
[06:21] <fabbione> Kamion: there are 3 or 4 binaries for sparc waiting to be NEW'ed...
[06:21] <fabbione> Kamion: can you be so kind to give them love?
[06:21] <zyga> gcc needs gtk?
[06:22] <Mithrandir> zyga: gcj needs it for some swing stuff, at least.
[06:22] <zyga> ah... 
[06:22] <zyga> makes sense then
[06:22] <fabbione> MOTU's are going to be soon very busy
[06:22] <zyga> the time when your compiler depends on a gui toolkit is troubling though :>
[06:23] <ogra> hmm, they should be split into two packages then... having the main compiler depending on gui stuff doesnt seem sane to me...
[06:23] <fabbione> ogra: that's no option with gcc
[06:23] <ogra> :-/
[06:23] <zyga> fabbione: can't gcc be built withoug java?
[06:24] <zyga> silly questiong
[06:24] <fabbione> zyga: than you don't have java
[06:24] <zyga> there are separete packages for gcj and stuff but they all build from gcc
[06:24] <zyga> sorry
[06:25] <fabbione> bootstrapping compilers is not exactly simple
[06:26] <tuhl> X is still no starting after an update
[06:28] <Amaranth> fabbione: libXrender.la no longer exists
[06:29] <Amaranth> fabbione: daniels seems to be happy to be rid of it
[06:29] <Kamion> ogra: the main compiler doesn't depend on GUI stuff; it *build*-depends
[06:29] <Amaranth> tuhl: You'll have to wait for daniels to finish his work on xbase-clients for X to be usable.
[06:29] <tuhl> Amaranth: thanks for the info
[06:29] <Kamion> fabbione: the sparc binaries are all part of other things; I was kind of planning to leave those to elmo
[06:30] <fabbione> Kamion: hmm ok..
[06:31] <fabbione> Amaranth: if daniels got rid of that, than we a have circular B-D problem....
[06:31] <fabbione> because i need new gcc to (probably) fix a bug in the actual gcc...
[06:31] <Nafallo> have eny decisions been taken on what proxy to use for 
[06:31] <Nafallo> 
[06:31] <Nafallo> NetworkWideUpdates 
[06:31] <Nafallo> ?
[06:31] <fabbione> that means i can't build the new gtk to get rid of that .la thingy
[06:31] <Amaranth> fabbione: kick ass
[06:31] <Amaranth> :/
[06:32] <Amaranth> seb was working on making the GNOME stack stop using it
[06:32] <Amaranth> gnome-terminal, libraries, gtk, etc
[06:32] <fabbione> yeah and gnome is FTBFS due to that gcc bug
[06:32] <Amaranth> oh, fun
[06:32] <Amaranth> is that the same one that is making the i810 driver mess up?
[06:33] <Amaranth> in xorg
[06:33] <fabbione> Amaranth: no. it's a specific sparc bug
[06:33] <Amaranth> oh, sparc
[06:33] <fabbione> the -Wl,--as-needed is broken
[06:33] <Amaranth> yeah, the --as-needed stuff, right?
[06:33] <mjg59> Woo, working usplash demonstration
[06:33] <Amaranth> mjg59: gimme :)
[06:33] <ogra> Kamion, thats still not right in my eyes...
[06:34] <ogra> mjg59, the *real* usplash ?
[06:34] <Amaranth> fabbione: So until you fix gcc you can't fix gtk and until you fix gtk you can't fix gcc.
[06:34] <Amaranth> Nice
[06:34] <fabbione> Amaranth: exactly...
[06:34] <Amaranth> fabbione: hack time, build gtk without --as-needed once
[06:34] <Amaranth> or talk to seb128 :)
[06:34] <sivang> seb128: ping
[06:34] <fabbione> Amaranth: that's what i was planning to
[06:34] <sivang> seb128: did you get my email?
[06:35] <mjg59> ogra: Yes
[06:35] <Amaranth> anyone want any spoilers :D
[06:35] <ogra> wohoo
[06:35] <mjg59> ogra: (I wrote it yesterday)
[06:35] <ogra> yay for mjg59 !!!
[06:35] <seb128> hi
[06:35] <mjg59> Amaranth: Needs a bit of work yet, not least to make it buildable
[06:35] <sivang> hi again seb128  :-)
[06:35] <seb128> sivang: calm, that's the WE
[06:35] <seb128> yes I got the mail
[06:35] <seb128> I've to ping jamesh before packaging the lib
[06:35] <seb128> then I can try the patch
[06:35] <fabbione> Amaranth: i will need to do a local build in a chroot without exporting the binaries, build gcc, be sure that it fixes the relaxation bug, reinstall gcc, rebuild gnome with relaxation, rebuild gcc, upload gcc and rebuild gnome...
[06:36] <fabbione> Amaranth: that's just to be 100% sure not to kill anything
[06:36] <mjg59> It's going to need a bit of work to get it to deal with the initrd/root changeover
[06:36] <sivang> seb128: you can try the patch also, if you take the baz archive and make install it in some chroot or a dev machine
[06:36] <seb128> I know how to install a lib, thanks
[06:36] <seb128> that's just the weekend
[06:36] <sivang> seb128: sure, sorry, I didn't mean it that way
[06:37] <sivang> ogra: what is that gcc bug?
[06:38] <ogra> sivang, there is no bug... gcc build depends on gtk through some java dependencys for gjc
[06:38] <sivang> ogra: ah I see
[06:40] <sivang> seb128: ok, so let me know when the pkg is in, as I will continue patching apps using the non pkged version of the lib
[06:40] <seb128> sivang: probably tomorrow
[07:01] <eruin> does anyone have -36 packages of xorg mirrored somewhere?
[07:02] <eruin> tseng, http://tseng.ath.cx/images/cowbell.png - nice battery status :-)
[07:03] <Lathiat_> eruin: i think you'll find he has 2 batteries
[07:04] <jnc> that answers my question
[07:04] <eruin> Lathiat_, never seen that before. cute ;)
[07:04] <tseng> Lathiat_: nope.
[07:04] <tseng> Lathiat_: davyd says its the hal backend
[07:05] <Lathiat_> tseng: oh, heh
[07:05] <jnc> now, with X broken occasionally in development, is there a convenient way to make ubuntu boot into multi-user without X11?
[07:06] <Lathiat_> jnc: if it breaks just login and fix it, if your keybaord gets screwed like mine then boot recovery mode from grub :)
[07:06] <tseng> you could remove gdm from your runlevel
[07:06] <tseng> man update-rc.d
[07:06] <jnc> oh
[07:07] <jnc> no  ubuntu=xbroken  boot flag  ?  ;)
[07:07] <eruin> Lathiat_, got your keybd fixed?
[07:11] <Lathiat_> eruin: yep
[07:11] <eruin> Lathiat_, mind sharing how in a pm? :P
[07:12] <jnc> Lathiat_: that's a bit more permenant than i was looking for, effective though
[07:18] <jnc> :/
[07:18] <jnc> it seems like the Xorg drivers are missing, is that what broke X11?
[07:18] <eruin> well, yes and no
[07:18] <eruin> you should be able to install them fine
[07:18] <jnc> okay
[07:19] <eruin> ie xserver-xorg-input-kbd
[07:19] <eruin> and change keyboard in xorg.conf tokbd
[07:20] <eruin> but now that I think of it, the latest updates seemed to drag in all the drivers I hadn't installed, so I believe that's fixed
[07:20] <jnc> heh
[07:20] <eruin> xkeyboard-config conflicts with xbase-clients though
[07:20] <jnc> i  had a trouble with Xlibs though, it wouldn't fully install
[07:20] <jnc> ah
[07:20] <eruin> rendering my keyboard useless in non-english conversations (and for switching to a terminal)
[07:21] <jnc> :(
[07:21] <jnc> sorry to hear that
[07:22] <eruin> no doubt poor daniel will have it fixed next week :)
[07:22] <jnc> yea
[07:22] <jnc> i'm looking at the output, here it says errors were found while processing xlibs 
[07:22] <Amaranth> eruin: Force it through.
[07:22] <jnc> i remember this happened before, and i had to edit some file  and run it manually
[07:23] <jnc> i forgot exactly where that was though
[07:23] <Amaranth> amd64 users need xlibs and xlibs-data 6.8.2-36 and x86 and ppc users need xbase-clients 6.8.2-36
[07:23] <Amaranth> good luck finding these, they aren't in morgue or the archives
[07:24] <eruin> what about i386?
[07:24] <Amaranth> i said that
[07:24] <Amaranth> x86
[07:24] <eruin> I'm halfblid
[07:24] <eruin> blind* :)
[07:25] <eruin> I've got it locally 
[07:25] <eruin> yay
[07:25] <jnc> Amaranth: you're referring to using an old version of the package, due to the new one being fubar?
[07:25] <fabbione> seb128: ping?
[07:30] <Amaranth> yes
[07:30] <jnc> hmm xvinfo isn't available on amd64
[07:30] <jnc> i wonder what that i
[07:30] <jnc> s/i$/is/
[07:30] <Lathiat_> jnc: the buildds are broken for amd64 last check
[07:30] <jnc> awwe
[07:30] <Lathiat_> and X has some borked stuff too
[07:30] <Lathiat_> xvinfo is a program that shows info about Xv, which provides video overlays
[07:31] <jnc> thanks for the info
[07:31] <Lathiat_> just bare with the Xorg team
[07:31] <jnc> 'k
[07:31] <jnc> hey, on a different yet related topic,  why is it that i'm running out of X11 connections over a few days?
[07:31] <jnc> eventually i cannot open new X11 client windows
[07:32] <jnc> they  get a message like "maximum X11 clients reached"
[07:32] <jnc> i've seen forum posts about it and the resolve was something like, deal with it just restart X11 every few days
[07:32] <jnc> that's not acceptable IMO
[07:32] <jnc> have you seen this problem?
[08:38] <seb128> fabbione: pong
[08:44] <pef> bye !
[08:45] <Gnobody> ping
[08:48] <Gnobody> pong
[08:48] <Gnobody> marco?
[08:51] <jnc> POLO
[08:52] <jnc> ^||~
[08:52] <jnc> kitty
[10:47] <niran> does anyone know if there's a python library out there for dealing with deb packages?
[10:48] <ogra> python-apt ?
[10:49] <niran> i know i can install packages with that, but i'm trying to extract the .desktop files from packages
[10:55] <fabbione> seb128: sorry i was out.. i think i found the way to get that gnome stuff fixed.. i am doing a set of test build now, but it will take sometime
[10:55] <fabbione> seb128: specially because of that libxrender.la thingy
[10:55] <seb128> cool
[10:55] <fabbione> seb128: gtk+2.0 needs to grow a libxfixes-dev B-D
[10:56] <fabbione> seb128: that will kill libxrender.la from it (on sparc at least)
[10:56] <fabbione> next is libcairo
[10:56] <seb128> what next ?
[10:56] <fabbione> (note i am not uploading anything.. just testing locally)
[10:56] <seb128> libcairo has to come before next gtk upload
[10:56] <seb128> because gtk depends on cairo now
[10:56] <seb128> as pango does
[10:56] <fabbione> after that i can build the new gcc and see if the -Wl,--as-needed is fixed there
[10:57] <fabbione> seb128: i am using a grep in /usr/lib atm to check what is still mentioning libxrender
[10:57] <fabbione> just to be able to build the latest gcc
[10:57] <seb128> I does the same here when I get a ftbfs :p
[10:57] <fabbione> (long story about gcc..)
[10:58] <fabbione> gcc FTBFS at the first run on gnat... today i did give it back for a mistake and it was building till the libxrender :)
[10:58] <fabbione> go figure..
[10:58] <fabbione> so i realized of all the mess
[10:58] <fabbione> but i need to build gcc before i can really check the liking thing
[10:58] <fabbione> it's a one day job at least
[10:59] <fabbione> actually.. if i could remember how to disable the test suite... it would be only a few hours...
[11:00] <pef> bye !
[11:02] <mxpxpod> I'm trying to make a backup of my laptop since my hard drive is going bad and I need to figure out how to get tar to preserve ownership of directories (NOT files)... does anyone know how to do that?
[11:08] <Lathiat> mxpxpod: -fprdx iirc
[11:08] <mxpxpod> Lathiat: what's r do?
[11:08] <mxpxpod> and d for that matter
[11:08] <Lathiat> -r is recursive
[11:08] <Lathiat> no idea about -d
[11:09] <Lathiat> oh
[11:09] <Lathiat> nevermind me
[11:09] <Lathiat> its 5am, im thinking of copy
[11:09] <mxpxpod> ha
[11:09] <Lathiat> -p doesnt preserve them?
[11:10] <Lathiat> perhaps 'dump' or 'cpio' would be usefull
[11:10] <mxpxpod> what's cpio?
[11:11] <Lathiat> man cpio :)
[11:11] <mxpxpod> :P
[11:16] <mxpxpod> Lathiat: I thought p would preserve them, but for some reason it keeps setting all the directories as belonging to root
[11:16] <mxpxpod> Lathiat: when I extract as root
[11:17] <Lathiat> shrug
[11:17] <Lathiat> sorry
[11:17] <Lathiat> :P)
[11:17] <mdke> there is a good howto on the forum for it
[11:18] <mxpxpod> mdke: for what?
[11:18] <mdke> for making an archive of your installation
[11:18] <mxpxpod> mdke: could you give me a link?
[11:19] <mxpxpod> I'd have to use lynx to search and I'm not really up to that
[11:19] <mdke> ah no problem
[11:20] <mdke> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=35087
[11:21] <mdke> mxpxpod, ^
[11:23] <tseng> infinity: any chance you can take a look at my buildd gtk-sharp2 issue from some weeks ago?
[11:24] <mxpxpod> mdke: awesome, thanks
[11:25] <Mez> why does ubuntu create /dev/dsp and no /dev/dsp0
[11:26] <Mez> crw-rw-rw-  1 root audio 14,  3 2005-07-17 20:06 /dev/dsp
[11:26] <Mez> crw-rw-rw-  1 root audio 14, 19 2005-07-17 20:07 /dev/dsp1
[11:26] <Mez> crw-rw-rw-  1 root audio 14, 35 2005-07-17 20:07 /dev/dsp2
[11:26] <Mez> shouldnt /dev/dsp be a link to /dev/dsp*
[11:26] <Mez> so that you can change the sound device?
[11:27] <Kamion> that would be an ecumenical^Wudev matter
[11:27] <Kamion> but you can change it in udev configuration anyway, surely?
[11:27] <Kamion> then it persists across reboots etc.
[11:28] <Kamion> not that I know how, offhand
[11:30] <schweeb> Kamion: I've been having problems similar to that for a few days with breezy... udev doesn't create /dev/psaux and /dev/input/mice
[11:30] <Kamion> Mez: most other GNU/Linux distributions are moving to udev too
[11:31] <Kamion> schweeb: there was a bug along those lines in Debian lately; I haven't been following it in detail but I think we'll probably just grab a newer version from Debian
[11:31] <schweeb> me being lazy, I just created a shell script to make the dev nodes, lol
[11:32] <Mez> I need to get a sound editor working
[11:32] <Kamion> you can always just move the devices around as a temporary hack
[11:32] <Mez> kamion: I wouldnt trust myself doing that.
[11:32] <tseng> Kamion: can i upload a bugfix mono (manual sync with debian)
[11:33] <Mez> oh, you mean renaming them ?
[11:33] <Mez> would that work?
[11:33] <Kamion> rename == move
[11:33] <Kamion> sure
[11:33] <Mez> and it wouldnt break my comp?
[11:33] <schweeb> Kamion: come to think of it, it started happening after your July 13th upload of 0.060-1ubuntu2 :p
[11:33] <Kamion> I don't see why anything should fall over just because a sound device got renamed
[11:34] <Kamion> schweeb: it was a race condition; it will be difficult to pin down to a single upload. I'm pretty confident my upload changed nothing remotely relevant to that
[11:34] <Mez> Kamion; couldnt I move the compat.rules to /etc/udev/rules.d
[11:34] <Kamion> Mez: not if you don't understand udev
[11:35] <mxpxpod> Nafallo: does backuppc backup a computer so that you can restore the backup to a clean hard drive?
[11:35] <Kamion> and no, that file is shipped by the package so don't move it around
[11:35] <Kamion> tseng: rationale?
[11:35] <schweeb> Kamion: yea.  that's just when it exhibited itself.  although, I can't remember how quickly before that I had rebooted my PC
[11:35] <Mez> Kamion: by the looks of it though, that makes the udev similar to a devfs
[11:35] <Kamion> schweeb: 0.060 proper is a more likely candidate
[11:35] <Kamion> Mez: run away
[11:36] <Mez> Kamion :P I'm messing
[11:36] <Kamion> Mez: we use that in the installer, but only for historical reasons. don't do it just to shift a couple of devices
[11:36] <tseng> Kamion: numerous bugfixes, packaging improvement (it can bootstrap itself properly)
[11:36] <Mez> I jsut need to get this f**king program working so I can edit audio now I've lost Windows
[11:36] <tseng> Kamion: which will fix my earlier DOA upload
[11:36] <Kamion> tseng: needed for applications?
[11:36] <Kamion> oh, yeah, 1.1.8-0pre3ubuntu2 didn't build
[11:36] <tseng> not specifically
[11:37] <tseng> but it can build on its own power.
[11:37] <Kamion> tseng: ok, go ahead
[11:37] <Nafallo> mxpxpod: I've not tried it. on a clean install I'm almost certain you can do that though :-).
[11:37] <tseng> Kamion: thanks.
[11:37] <Kamion> losing that bootstrap madness will be very nice
[11:38] <Nafallo> mxpxpod: or get partimage or something like that :-)
[11:42] <Mez> wtf?
[11:42] <Mez> this is freaky
[11:43] <Mez> this is scary as hell.
[11:44] <mxpxpod> Nafallo: partimage doesn't work on xfs
[11:44] <tseng> Kamion: oh sorry. i forgot to mention this needs cli-common update also
[11:44] <tseng> Kamion: cli-common is just the dh_* scripts. they are fixed up to use internal mono to bootstrap
[11:44] <Mez> ahah
[11:44] <Mez> not so weird anymore
[11:45] <Nafallo> mxpxpod: ah, oki. backuppc uses ssh+tar. should work :-).
[11:46] <Kamion> tseng: bonus points if you can tell me that we can sync to exactly the Debian version
[11:46] <tseng> Kamion: yes.
[11:46] <Kamion> tseng: (and, if so, mail elmo, etc.)
[11:46] <mdke> mxpxpod, also if you wanna good backup, try mondo rescue
[11:46] <mxpxpod> mdke: mondo rescue?
[11:46] <mdke> dot org
[11:47] <Mithrandir> Kamion: would you mind if we synced in the new pkg-config upstream version?  It fixes one cosmetic bug, one which doesn't affect us and one which can potentially cause evil build failures (freedesktop #3682).  The fix for the last bug is a one-line change.
[11:47] <tseng> Kamion: we can sync cli-common as is. in mono i am doing one change ( use __thread on all archs ) since jbailey is threatening to remove pthread in breezy+1, and __thread is upstream default
[11:48] <tseng> mailing
[11:48] <mxpxpod> mdke: any ubuntu pkgs?
[11:48] <mdke> yep
[11:49] <mdke> universe
[11:49] <Mez> wewt
[11:49] <Mez> now I can like...
[11:49] <Mez> do stuff with audacity
[11:49] <mxpxpod> mdke: what's the package name? I only see mondo-doc
[11:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir: looks fine
[11:49] <mdke> mxpxpod, mondo
[11:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir: (and a good idea)
[11:49] <Mithrandir> Kamion: great, I'll mail elmo then.
[11:50] <ogra> mxpxpod, mondo is x86 only
[11:50] <mxpxpod> oh, that's nice
[11:52] <carstenh> jbailey: ping