=== FLeiXiuS [~fleixius@pcp0010487351pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === kbrooks [~kbrooks@kbrooks.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:30] rwabel, UserDocumentation is starting to look great now, thanks for your work! === Burgundavia [~corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:16] how's it going Burgundavia ? [03:16] nice wiki work dude [03:17] is this a special wiki page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LocalSpellingWords [03:17] mdke, I am just beginning [03:18] oh yeah? [03:18] what are you planning? [03:18] Burgundavia, what do you mean by special wiki page? [03:18] going to cleanup UserDocumenation [03:19] does moin use that LocalSpellingWords for spell check? [03:19] add a Laptop page [03:19] add a PDA page [03:19] cleanup? [03:19] make more useful [03:19] dunno about that spelling page [03:19] Burgundavia, what did you have in mind for UserDocumentation? [03:20] mkde: yeah it's great [03:21] Burgundavia, rwabel and myself have been doing some work on it recently, perhaps we can pool ideas [03:21] basically, I need to forstall the creation of the NewUser guide stuff [03:21] so I need to prove that I can make UserDocumentation useful for all [03:21] mostly need to cleanup the New to Ubuntu section [03:21] i would like that too [03:22] what is this? [03:22] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LinuxForReal [03:22] can I kill it? [03:22] why kill? [03:23] it seems to be a non-useful brain dump [03:23] there are 2500 pages on the wiki man, many will be non-useful. The important thing IMHO is to get the useful pages linked well [03:23] yes [03:23] maybe someone wants that page [03:23] murdering non-useful pages is also useful [03:23] the author [03:24] why not just ask the author? [03:24] IMO we should be careful with murdering pages, the person who created them might want them, and if they are doing no harm... [03:24] should === Burgundavia mumbles about harm... [03:25] remove links to it if there are prominent links on important pages which mislead users [03:25] the first paragraph on UserDocumentation needs work [03:25] yes indeed [03:25] that is out of date [03:25] I'm sure the author of the page has just started, it's dated from yesterday [03:26] I am going to get rid of the icon, as it takes up too much vertical space === mdke is working on it [03:26] just did an edit [03:27] we need a DeletionRequests page [03:28] gah [03:28] damn you [03:28] crossing over edits = bad [03:28] I said I was editing it [03:28] sorry, saw that after I had saved [03:28] the wiki should have told us that someone else was working on the page [03:31] mdke, you done? [03:31] not quite [03:31] ouch https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackupYourSystem needs some love [03:31] too wordy [03:31] you removed the warning not to make structural changes without talking to ubuntu-doc? [03:32] no, moved it to the bottom [03:32] Burgundavia, its a howto from the forum, i only just copied it over [03:32] "To do this, become root with [03:32] sudo su [03:32] " [03:32] umm, no [03:32] Burgundavia, ah hmm. Maybe it would be better to have it at the top but commented? [03:32] yes, like that idea [03:32] Burgundavia, sudo su works afaik, i have followed that howto to the letter [03:33] it works, but is not hte ubuntu way [03:33] do we have a standard "Needs work message?" [03:34] well... i asked the author of the howto to maintain the wiki page too, maybe he will say yes. You can make recommendations for the howto on the forum thread i guess. or just change the wiki page [03:34] Burgundavia, there is a needs work section in WikiToDo iirc [03:34] just added a comment to the top about using at your own risk [03:35] i've finished editing the first para on UserDocumentation [03:35] lemme know what you think [03:36] looks good [03:36] that page is rocking now compared to a week ago [03:38] check the page now [03:38] I seperated installation methods [03:38] great idea [03:39] I rather like AudioCDBurning [03:39] only thing missing from installation 1 is some install guides [03:40] i'll add em [03:40] ok [03:40] ah shit [03:40] the existing ones are for warty [03:40] then fix them [03:40] anyway, all our installation stuff is about to be obselete [03:41] what about removing the non-technical/faq stuff from the NewUbuntu User stuff? [03:42] thoughts? [03:43] and Kubuntu does not need to be in the New Users stuff [03:44] i will tend to avoid that NewUsers stuff [03:44] i still think that the UserDocumentation page can/should be user-friendly enough [03:45] ok, I am going to go to town on the new users section [03:46] they will roll back maybe [03:46] best thing is to keep communication strong so that they know what you are doing and why [03:46] no, the section in the UserDocumentation page [03:47] is there a getting Ubuntu page? [03:48] oh sorry i see [03:48] where will you put the kubuntu link? [03:48] that is important IMHO [03:48] no idea [03:48] thoughts? [03:48] i think it should be there myself [03:48] but you are right about the faq probably [03:49] maybe move that to other resources [03:49] let me edit and you can critique [03:49] also probably the basic CLI commands can go [03:49] somewhere lower [03:50] should getting ubuntu list development versions? [03:50] GettingUbuntu [03:51] i like it, its at the bottom so does no harm IMO [03:51] what do you think? [03:51] hmm [03:51] thinking of moving into its own page [03:51] to cleanup getting Ubuntu [03:51] i think lots of people look for the Development version [03:51] i think having it under a subsection on that page is quite nice myself [03:52] kinda makes sense to have it in GettingUbuntu to me [03:52] ok [03:53] i tell you what I don't like [03:53] links to the spanish version [03:53] also I'm gonna change the section titles so that Development is more clearly separated from the rest [03:53] editing it [03:53] just a sec [03:54] cool [03:54] done [03:54] how to I link to specific section of a wiki page? [03:54] erm [03:55] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnMacros#here [03:55] what is your view on having spanish links in pages? [03:56] sure [03:56] no need to make it harder to find the international links [03:56] but none of the other languages link [03:57] then link them [03:57] and the spanish pages should have their own table of contents really [03:58] i'll leave it for now [04:00] burgs [04:00] know anything about iptables? [04:00] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IptablesHowTo [04:00] how do I make a link this [[Page linked to|actual link in page] ] [04:00] no much [04:00] umm, firestarter? [04:01] i've heard firestarter is a bit shit [04:01] btw [04:01] firestarter needs some interface love [04:01] but isn't bad [04:02] [:PageNameInCamelCase:your lovely readable link] === mdke waits for Burgundavia to go through the entire wiki to change all links like that [04:03] we should be copying more gentoo docs ;) [04:03] http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Iptables_for_newbies [04:04] i gotta sleep [04:04] night [04:04] cya [04:05] parting thought [04:05] oh? [04:05] i wonder if it would be helpful to have a list of wikiteam people [04:06] for coordination purposes so people can communicate and feedback on what they're doing [04:06] might be [04:06] this session has been useful IMO [04:06] yes [04:06] ok --> bed [04:06] hassle elmo abo [04:07] ut commit accounts [04:07] :) [04:07] yes === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:10] me too [04:10] cu [04:16] Burgundavia, do you mind if i remove the "non-technical" reading section? I think it complicates a bit. I was thinking, remove StartingTheJourney altogether and put UbuntuPhilosophy in the first section under About Ubuntu? [04:17] sure [04:17] awesome [04:18] hmm [04:18] looking good [04:18] we can make some nicer links another day [04:19] # [04:19] NewUbuntuUsers - answers to common questions for new users [04:19] # [04:19] [WWW] Glossary - learn the meaning of some words related to computers, linux, and Ubuntu. [04:19] # [04:19] FrequentlyAskedQuestions - Answers for questions not yet in the [WWW] FAQ database [04:19] what do you think about these 3 links? [04:19] I want them to go away [04:20] 2. glossary i like [04:20] ok [04:20] glossary is a little technical [04:20] 3. i don't like. not sure whether it should go away but we can think about it [04:20] hmm [04:20] maybe move to other resources for the glossary then? [04:20] NewUbuntuUsers duplicates the section it is in [04:20] remove 1 [04:21] done [04:21] mdke, were you not going to bed? [04:21] i'm making a list of people on WikiTeam, robitaille, rwabel, Burgundavia I'm adding you [04:21] Burgundavia, might have been [04:21] ok [04:21] is 3am there, no? [04:21] yes [04:21] you must not live with anyone [04:22] correct [04:22] well i have a flatmate [04:22] but he has his own room :) [04:22] my g/f is coming to visit on saturday so I might as well get going on Ubuntu until she does :) [04:22] ah [04:25] i don't like the table of contents any more [04:25] i wonder if we can get it to use bullet points in the subsections [04:26] would be nice [04:26] doesn't look like it... [04:26] we can limit the max depth... [04:27] but that wouldn't work === ealden [~ealden@219.90.91.78] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke plays with macros [05:08] ARGH! [05:08] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGuide [05:08] why? === HrdwrBoB [~matt@bob.is.teh.admin.at.vicnet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:11] hey dude [05:12] i noticed you're porting ubuntuguide to the wiki [05:12] ahh this would be th right channel [05:12] yeah [05:12] how come? [05:12] people keep reading the damn thing and if they're going to read it [05:12] they could at least read one that's up to date and correct [05:12] or at least correctable [05:12] ok [05:13] i have a couple of ideas on that [05:13] is there a better way I should be approaching it? [05:13] first of all, do you know that the doc team is working on a version of the guide? [05:14] it will be released with breezy and as static html on the website [05:14] I search around the wiki but couldn't find anything easily available that was similar [05:14] this document we are working on is not on the wiki but in our svn repository [05:14] if you want to get involved with it, we would be happy [05:14] there are two guys working on it, i'm sure they would love a hand [05:14] if not, np [05:14] yeah that would be cool [05:15] a lot of the issues i find is just dealing with the things ubuntu can't distribute [05:15] yeah we have some difficulty with that too [05:15] especially since it will ship with the distro [05:15] as an end user, I don't care about patents, I just want to play mp3s DVDs, other movies, java and flash [05:16] is it a legal problem for ubuntu to tell people how to do it [05:16] some things are [05:16] we will probably be handling the problem thus: [05:16] wait to see what hoary-extras does when backports becomes "official" [05:17] then act accordingly [05:17] patents are mostly ok [05:17] it is w32codecs that are the real problem === Burgundavia shoots himself now [05:17] HrdwrBoB, the other thing you might be interested in is that we are trying to improve the documentation area on the wiki to make available much of the material that is in the guide but not the wiki. Maybe you would be interested in helping out? The Homepage for documentation is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation [05:18] HrdwrBoB, if you identify things that are in the guide but not in the wiki, perhaps you could create the pages and link in that page? that way we will have a rocking documentation area in the wiki [05:19] yeah [05:20] is there a nicer way to refresh the gnome menu than killing gnome-panel [05:20] i reckon a really long page like UbuntuGuide is not so accessible as that method [05:20] that seems like an awfully vicious way of doing it [05:20] HrdwrBoB, no, but it should update automatically. Only the icons don't update. [05:20] what I find people like with ubuntuguide is it's a lot of 'quick fixes' [05:20] yeah I thought so [05:21] HrdwrBoB, we are not against quick fixes :) [05:21] :) [05:21] HrdwrBoB, the main reason I called you in here was to make you aware of what we are doing and to ensure there is no duplication of effort :) [05:22] yeah that's cool [05:22] great [05:22] ok real bed time now [05:22] (04.22) [05:22] heh, night [05:23] lunchtime for me [05:23] :) [05:23] aussie? [05:23] what are we going to do with UbuntuGuide right now? [05:23] Burgundavia, that's up to HrdwrBoB [05:23] as it is copyright violation, as well [05:23] hehe [05:23] Burgundavia, that is debateable. [05:23] yes [05:24] as the 5.04 is a deriv on the 4.10 one [05:24] and the 4.10 was tri-licensed [05:24] there is a clear intention to give a licence on his page, even if it isn't properly done [05:24] but our wiki is not gpl [05:24] thus it is license violation [05:24] as gpl and gfdl cannot be mixed [05:24] that is a very stiff way of looking at it [05:25] the law is very stiff [05:25] it sucks but is true [05:25] hey [05:25] you canadians have the most flexible law of all of us [05:25] not really [05:25] Burgundavia: stuff on the wiki inherently becomes GFDL? [05:25] HrdwrBoB, dual licensed, actually [05:25] gfdl and cc-by-sa2.0 === robitaille remembers an slashdot article of a few days ago about a planned Canadian law banning search engines... [05:26] well, the new canadian copyright law is mixed bag [05:26] some good, some bad [05:26] that is OT though [05:27] so you can't have a section with a disclaimer that's GPL [05:27] actually, you can't have the entire guide [05:27] removing the gpl stuff doesn't unlicense it [05:27] the GPL stuff isn't removed [05:27] I moved it to the bottom [05:27] yes [05:28] the ubuntuguide.org author released the 4.10 version to the doc team under our licenses [05:28] you can use that === Skywind [~Skywind@218.104.86.222] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:29] ok [05:30] but honestly, one monolithic page is not useful [05:31] possibly, but it seems to be preferred by end users [05:31] no, end users want quick information [05:31] there are many way so geting that to them [05:31] a monolithic page is one way [05:31] a well linked wiki is our way [05:32] true [05:33] so, for your page, what are we going to do with it? [05:34] I just updated it with a "under development due to copyright issues" message [05:34] ok [05:35] please don't like it from anywhere [06:02] this a useful link to keep? [06:02] http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/ === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.236] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:47] hello === Skywind [~Skywind@218.104.86.222] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Skywind [~Skywind@218.104.86.222] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:24] jsgotangco: hi (30 minutes later...) [07:24] salut all === venda [~sean@ndn-165-134-250.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:27] Burgundavia, jeezz you're busy today [08:27] yes [08:28] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EverydayUsage [08:28] kill it? [08:29] it seems pretty rendundant [08:32] what is this? [08:32] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StopGnomeFromRestarting [08:36] can I kill it? [08:37] sure mdke wanted to kill that page before [08:37] done [08:38] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSecurity should we bother keeping it? I created that page as a proof of concept during a mailing list conversation, but obviously it hasn't be updated in 3 months. [08:39] kill it [08:39] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IsoImage [08:40] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DowngradingFromHoaryHowTo , kill that? [08:40] is there a copy of ubuntuguide on the wiki? [08:40] yes [08:40] downgrading is ridiculous [08:40] UbuntuGuide [08:41] you could always replace it with the one in subversion when we're done [08:41] there already is one [08:41] FAQGuide [08:41] yes, thats the one I'm talking about [08:43] or even just remove the wiki one, I think ours will be on help.u.c when its done [08:43] downgrading to Warty was on topic during Hoary's developmental cycle and users were upgrading for no real reason for no real reason. Now, it's kind of useless. [08:43] it is already dead === Burgundavia is having fun deleting stuff [08:43] hehe [08:44] good work though [08:44] the wiki needed it [08:45] UbuntuSecurity is now gone. [08:45] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NanoHowto [08:46] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IsoImage I would kill it; not really useful content [08:47] dead [08:48] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NanoHowto keep it? there is some limited content in there for people interested in that application. [08:50] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinishInstallationHowto [08:51] is this out of date? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NautilusScriptsHowto [08:53] from memory, NautilusScriptsHowto is where people were dumping example of Nautilus script. A bit stale, but I don't think it is out of date per say; probably still useful as examples to use if you are trying to write your own scripts. [08:54] I keep seeing my name on all these old pages because they all have icons that got repaired recently :) === Seveas [~seveas@ksl403-uva-135.wireless.uva.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:54] yes [08:54] most of them are very old [08:54] FinishInstallationHowto I would delete [08:55] very limited content....need to much love to be even remotely useful [08:55] dead [08:56] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WhyIMAP should that be CatDocumentation? [08:56] I would just kill it [08:57] I'm 50/50 on WhyIMAP. Too many new users have no ideas about IMap vs POP [08:57] yes, but it doesn't really serve any audience [08:58] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallingMplayerFromHoaryInWarty [08:59] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OpenVPNClientMiniHowto [08:59] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToEnableMiddleClickURLLoadingInFirefox I'm a bit confuse by that page. Is that middle-button loading creating a new tab? Or something else? [09:00] that is garbage [09:00] InstallingMplayerFromHoaryInWarty [09:01] kill it? [09:01] is probably not worth keeping. [09:01] dead [09:02] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantumLogicCorpoation [09:02] spam? [09:03] spam with a typo :) [09:03] dead [09:03] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RemoteConnectionUbuntuLiveCD [09:04] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OpenVPNClientMiniHowto talk about v2, which is only available in Breezy. So worth keeping around for a bit longer? [09:04] ok [09:04] tagged as documentation [09:04] I am going to kill the middleclick page [09:05] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FOSSFP [09:05] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FasterBootProcess [09:05] development only [09:06] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility this is a glossary only term? [09:07] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RemoteConnectionUbuntuLiveCD risky business...but could be of use for someone. [09:07] I will tag it and then note that it is risky [09:10] Accessibility: looks like a glossary term for a page; Not sure from where. AccessibilityTeam needs a bit of my love on some links [09:10] I will kill it [09:11] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThunderbirdDefaultMailerHowto <-- one liner, better served in a more general place [09:12] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder Should we have a general Confence Cateogry for the various past and future COFs pages? [09:12] yes [09:13] is this true anymore? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelDoesNotSupportCapabilities [09:16] if it is, it could be cleaned up a bit [09:16] why? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallingFirefox [09:16] HrdwrBoB, go to it [09:17] $() is better than ` [09:17] and it's better to add the module to /etc/modules [09:17] then all you have to do is mkinitrd [09:17] fix the page pleaes [09:17] and all future initrds will be created correctly [09:17] and add CategoryDocumentation to it [09:17] doing so [09:18] cheers, thanks [09:18] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallingFirefox wasn't that on the WikiTODO list (install thunderbird and firefox from mozilla.org)? [09:18] do we really need a howto on installing from source? [09:19] a user is more likely to seriously mess up their system with that [09:19] people keep asking for it.... [09:19] is there a page that is better for this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WirelessFirmware [09:19] ok, I will add huge "do not do" things on it [09:20] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiToDo has Firefox+Thunderbird page to do. Not sure who added that request [09:21] how to add a new category? for that COF one? [09:21] added huge caveat and category [09:22]