[02:30] <mdke> rwabel, UserDocumentation is starting to look great now, thanks for your work!
[03:16] <mdke> how's it going Burgundavia ?
[03:16] <mdke> nice wiki work dude
[03:17] <Burgundavia> is this a special wiki page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LocalSpellingWords
[03:17] <Burgundavia> mdke, I am just beginning
[03:18] <mdke> oh yeah?
[03:18] <mdke> what are you planning?
[03:18] <mdke> Burgundavia, what do you mean by special wiki page?
[03:18] <Burgundavia> going to cleanup UserDocumenation
[03:19] <Burgundavia> does moin use that LocalSpellingWords for spell check?
[03:19] <Burgundavia> add a Laptop page
[03:19] <Burgundavia> add a PDA page
[03:19] <mdke> cleanup?
[03:19] <Burgundavia> make more useful
[03:19] <mdke> dunno about that spelling page
[03:19] <mdke> Burgundavia, what did you have in mind for UserDocumentation?
[03:20] <rwabel> mkde: yeah it's great
[03:21] <mdke> Burgundavia, rwabel and myself have been doing some work on it recently, perhaps we can pool ideas
[03:21] <Burgundavia> basically, I need to forstall the creation of the NewUser guide stuff
[03:21] <Burgundavia> so I need to prove that I can make UserDocumentation useful for all
[03:21] <Burgundavia> mostly need to cleanup the New to Ubuntu section
[03:21] <mdke> i would like that too
[03:22] <Burgundavia> what is this?
[03:22] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LinuxForReal
[03:22] <Burgundavia> can I kill it?
[03:22] <mdke> why kill?
[03:23] <Burgundavia> it seems to be a non-useful brain dump
[03:23] <mdke> there are 2500 pages on the wiki man, many will be non-useful. The important thing IMHO is to get the useful pages linked well
[03:23] <Burgundavia> yes
[03:23] <mdke> maybe someone wants that page
[03:23] <Burgundavia> murdering non-useful pages is also useful
[03:23] <mdke> the author
[03:24] <rwabel> why not just ask the author?
[03:24] <mdke> IMO we should be careful with murdering pages, the person who created them might want them, and if they are doing no harm...
[03:24] <Burgundavia> should
[03:25] <mdke> remove links to it if there are prominent links on important pages which mislead users
[03:25] <Burgundavia> the first paragraph on UserDocumentation needs work
[03:25] <mdke> yes indeed
[03:25] <mdke> that is out of date
[03:25] <rwabel> I'm sure the author of the page has just started, it's dated from yesterday
[03:26] <Burgundavia> I am going to get rid of the icon, as it takes up too much vertical space
[03:26] <Burgundavia> just did an edit
[03:27] <Burgundavia> we need a DeletionRequests page
[03:28] <mdke> gah
[03:28] <mdke> damn you
[03:28] <mdke> crossing over edits = bad
[03:28] <Burgundavia> I said I was editing it
[03:28] <Burgundavia> sorry, saw that after I had saved
[03:28] <mdke> the wiki should have told us that someone else was working on the page
[03:31] <Burgundavia> mdke, you done?
[03:31] <mdke> not quite
[03:31] <Burgundavia> ouch https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackupYourSystem needs some love
[03:31] <Burgundavia> too wordy
[03:31] <mdke> you removed the warning not to make structural changes without talking to ubuntu-doc?
[03:32] <Burgundavia> no, moved it to the bottom
[03:32] <mdke> Burgundavia, its a howto from the forum, i only just copied it over
[03:32] <Burgundavia> "To do this, become root with
[03:32] <Burgundavia> sudo su
[03:32] <Burgundavia> "
[03:32] <Burgundavia> umm, no
[03:32] <mdke> Burgundavia, ah hmm. Maybe it would be better to have it at the top but commented?
[03:32] <Burgundavia> yes, like that idea
[03:32] <mdke> Burgundavia, sudo su works afaik, i have followed that howto to the letter
[03:33] <Burgundavia> it works, but is not hte ubuntu way
[03:33] <Burgundavia> do we have a standard "Needs work message?"
[03:34] <mdke> well... i asked the author of the howto to maintain the wiki page too, maybe he will say yes. You can make recommendations for the howto on the forum thread i guess. or just change the wiki page
[03:34] <mdke> Burgundavia, there is a needs work section in WikiToDo iirc
[03:34] <Burgundavia> just added a comment to the top about using at your own risk
[03:35] <mdke> i've finished editing the first para on UserDocumentation
[03:35] <mdke> lemme know what you think
[03:36] <Burgundavia> looks good
[03:36] <mdke> that page is rocking now compared to a week ago
[03:38] <Burgundavia> check the page now
[03:38] <Burgundavia> I seperated installation methods
[03:38] <mdke> great idea
[03:39] <Burgundavia> I rather like AudioCDBurning
[03:39] <mdke> only thing missing from installation 1 is some install guides
[03:40] <mdke> i'll add em
[03:40] <Burgundavia> ok
[03:40] <mdke> ah shit
[03:40] <mdke> the existing ones are for warty
[03:40] <Burgundavia> then fix them
[03:40] <Burgundavia> anyway, all our installation stuff is about to be obselete
[03:41] <Burgundavia> what about removing the non-technical/faq stuff from the NewUbuntu User stuff?
[03:42] <Burgundavia> thoughts?
[03:43] <Burgundavia> and Kubuntu does not need to be in the New Users stuff
[03:44] <mdke> i will tend to avoid that NewUsers stuff
[03:44] <mdke> i still think that the UserDocumentation page can/should be user-friendly enough
[03:45] <Burgundavia> ok, I am going to go to town on the new users section
[03:46] <mdke> they will roll back maybe
[03:46] <mdke> best thing is to keep communication strong so that they know what you are doing and why
[03:46] <Burgundavia> no, the section in the UserDocumentation page
[03:47] <Burgundavia> is there a getting Ubuntu page?
[03:48] <mdke> oh sorry i see
[03:48] <mdke> where will you put the kubuntu link?
[03:48] <mdke> that is important IMHO
[03:48] <Burgundavia> no idea
[03:48] <Burgundavia> thoughts?
[03:48] <mdke> i think it should be there myself
[03:48] <mdke> but you are right about the faq probably
[03:49] <mdke> maybe move that to other resources
[03:49] <Burgundavia> let me edit and you can critique
[03:49] <mdke> also probably the basic CLI commands can go
[03:49] <mdke> somewhere lower
[03:50] <Burgundavia> should getting ubuntu list development versions?
[03:50] <Burgundavia> GettingUbuntu
[03:51] <mdke> i like it, its at the bottom so does no harm IMO
[03:51] <mdke> what do you think?
[03:51] <Burgundavia> hmm
[03:51] <Burgundavia> thinking of moving into its own page
[03:51] <Burgundavia> to cleanup getting Ubuntu
[03:51] <mdke> i think lots of people look for the Development version
[03:51] <mdke> i think having it under a subsection on that page is quite nice myself
[03:52] <mdke> kinda makes sense to have it in GettingUbuntu to me
[03:52] <Burgundavia> ok
[03:53] <mdke> i tell you what I don't like
[03:53] <mdke> links to the spanish version
[03:53] <mdke> also I'm gonna change the section titles so that Development is more clearly separated from the rest
[03:53] <Burgundavia> editing it
[03:53] <Burgundavia> just a sec
[03:54] <mdke> cool
[03:54] <Burgundavia> done
[03:54] <Burgundavia> how to I link to specific section of a wiki page?
[03:54] <mdke> erm
[03:55] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnMacros#here
[03:55] <mdke> what is your view on having spanish links in pages?
[03:56] <Burgundavia> sure
[03:56] <Burgundavia> no need to make it harder to find the international links
[03:56] <mdke> but none of the other languages link
[03:57] <Burgundavia> then link them
[03:57] <mdke> and the spanish pages should have their own table of contents really
[03:58] <mdke> i'll leave it for now
[04:00] <mdke> burgs
[04:00] <mdke> know anything about iptables?
[04:00] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IptablesHowTo
[04:00] <Burgundavia> how do I make a link this  [[Page linked to|actual link in page] ] 
[04:00] <Burgundavia> no much
[04:00] <Burgundavia> umm, firestarter?
[04:01] <mdke> i've heard firestarter is a bit shit
[04:01] <mdke> btw
[04:01] <Burgundavia> firestarter needs some interface love
[04:01] <Burgundavia> but isn't bad
[04:02] <mdke> [:PageNameInCamelCase:your lovely readable link] 
[04:03] <mdke> we should be copying more gentoo docs ;)
[04:03] <mdke> http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Iptables_for_newbies
[04:04] <mdke> i gotta sleep
[04:04] <mdke> night
[04:04] <Burgundavia> cya
[04:05] <mdke> parting thought
[04:05] <Burgundavia> oh?
[04:05] <mdke> i wonder if it would be helpful to have a list of wikiteam people
[04:06] <mdke> for coordination purposes so people can communicate and feedback on what they're doing
[04:06] <Burgundavia> might be
[04:06] <mdke> this session has been useful IMO
[04:06] <Burgundavia> yes
[04:06] <mdke> ok --> bed
[04:06] <mdke> hassle elmo abo
[04:07] <mdke> ut commit accounts
[04:07] <mdke> :)
[04:07] <Burgundavia> yes
[04:10] <rwabel> me too
[04:10] <rwabel> cu
[04:16] <mdke> Burgundavia, do you mind if i remove the "non-technical" reading section? I think it complicates a bit. I was thinking, remove StartingTheJourney altogether and put UbuntuPhilosophy in the first section under About Ubuntu?
[04:17] <Burgundavia> sure
[04:17] <mdke> awesome
[04:18] <mdke> hmm
[04:18] <mdke> looking good
[04:18] <mdke> we can make some nicer links another day
[04:19] <Burgundavia> #
[04:19] <Burgundavia> NewUbuntuUsers - answers to common questions for new users
[04:19] <Burgundavia> #
[04:19] <Burgundavia> [WWW]  Glossary - learn the meaning of some words related to computers, linux, and Ubuntu.
[04:19] <Burgundavia> #
[04:19] <Burgundavia> FrequentlyAskedQuestions - Answers for questions not yet in the [WWW]  FAQ database
[04:19] <Burgundavia> what do you think about these 3 links?
[04:19] <Burgundavia> I want them to go away
[04:20] <mdke> 2. glossary i like
[04:20] <Burgundavia> ok
[04:20] <Burgundavia> glossary is a little technical
[04:20] <mdke> 3. i don't like. not sure whether it should go away but we can think about it
[04:20] <mdke> hmm
[04:20] <mdke> maybe move to other resources for the glossary then?
[04:20] <Burgundavia> NewUbuntuUsers duplicates the section it is in
[04:20] <mdke> remove 1
[04:21] <Burgundavia> done
[04:21] <Burgundavia> mdke, were you not going to bed?
[04:21] <mdke> i'm making a list of people on WikiTeam, robitaille, rwabel, Burgundavia I'm adding you
[04:21] <mdke> Burgundavia, might have been
[04:21] <Burgundavia> ok
[04:21] <Burgundavia> is 3am there, no?
[04:21] <mdke> yes
[04:21] <Burgundavia> you must not live with anyone
[04:22] <mdke> correct
[04:22] <mdke> well i have a flatmate
[04:22] <mdke> but he has his own room :)
[04:22] <mdke> my g/f is coming to visit on saturday so I might as well get going on Ubuntu until she does :)
[04:22] <Burgundavia> ah
[04:25] <mdke> i don't like the table of contents any more
[04:25] <mdke> i wonder if we can get it to use bullet points in the subsections
[04:26] <Burgundavia> would be nice
[04:26] <mdke> doesn't look like it...
[04:26] <mdke> we can limit the max depth...
[04:27] <mdke> but that wouldn't work
[05:08] <mdke> ARGH!
[05:08] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGuide
[05:08] <mdke> why?
[05:11] <mdke> hey dude
[05:12] <mdke> i noticed you're porting ubuntuguide to the wiki
[05:12] <HrdwrBoB> ahh this would be th right channel
[05:12] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[05:12] <mdke> how come?
[05:12] <HrdwrBoB> people keep reading the damn thing and if they're going to read it
[05:12] <HrdwrBoB> they could at least read one that's up to date and correct
[05:12] <HrdwrBoB> or at least correctable
[05:12] <mdke> ok
[05:13] <mdke> i have a couple of ideas on that
[05:13] <HrdwrBoB> is there a better way I should be approaching it?
[05:13] <mdke> first of all, do you know that the doc team is working on a version of the guide?
[05:14] <mdke> it will be released with breezy and as static html on the website
[05:14] <HrdwrBoB> I search around the wiki but couldn't find anything easily available that was similar
[05:14] <mdke> this document we are working on is not on the wiki but in our svn repository
[05:14] <mdke> if you want to get involved with it, we would be happy
[05:14] <mdke> there are two guys working on it, i'm sure they would love a hand
[05:14] <mdke> if not, np
[05:14] <HrdwrBoB> yeah that would be cool
[05:15] <HrdwrBoB> a lot of the issues i find is just dealing with the things ubuntu can't distribute
[05:15] <mdke> yeah we have some difficulty with that too
[05:15] <mdke> especially since it will ship with the distro
[05:15] <HrdwrBoB> as an end user, I don't care about patents, I just want to play mp3s DVDs, other movies, java and flash
[05:16] <HrdwrBoB> is it a legal problem for ubuntu to tell people how to do it
[05:16] <mdke> some things are
[05:16] <mdke> we will probably be handling the problem thus:
[05:16] <mdke> wait to see what hoary-extras does when backports becomes "official"
[05:17] <mdke> then act accordingly
[05:17] <Burgundavia> patents are mostly ok
[05:17] <Burgundavia> it is w32codecs that are the real problem
[05:17] <mdke> HrdwrBoB, the other thing you might be interested in is that we are trying to improve the documentation area on the wiki to make available much of the material that is in the guide but not the wiki. Maybe you would be interested in helping out? The Homepage for documentation is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation
[05:18] <mdke> HrdwrBoB, if you identify things that are in the guide but not in the wiki, perhaps you could create the pages and link in that page? that way we will have a rocking documentation area in the wiki
[05:19] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[05:20] <HrdwrBoB> is there a nicer way to refresh the gnome menu than killing gnome-panel
[05:20] <mdke> i reckon a really long page like UbuntuGuide is not so accessible as that method
[05:20] <HrdwrBoB> that seems like an awfully vicious way of doing it
[05:20] <mdke> HrdwrBoB, no, but it should update automatically. Only the icons don't update.
[05:20] <HrdwrBoB> what I find people like with ubuntuguide is it's a lot of 'quick fixes'
[05:20] <HrdwrBoB> yeah I thought so
[05:21] <mdke> HrdwrBoB, we are not against quick fixes :)
[05:21] <HrdwrBoB> :)
[05:21] <mdke> HrdwrBoB, the main reason I called you in here was to make you aware of what we are doing and to ensure there is no duplication of effort :)
[05:22] <HrdwrBoB> yeah that's cool
[05:22] <mdke> great
[05:22] <mdke> ok real bed time now
[05:22] <mdke> (04.22)
[05:22] <HrdwrBoB> heh, night
[05:23] <HrdwrBoB> lunchtime for me
[05:23] <mdke> :)
[05:23] <mdke> aussie?
[05:23] <Burgundavia> what are we going to do with UbuntuGuide right now?
[05:23] <mdke> Burgundavia, that's up to HrdwrBoB 
[05:23] <Burgundavia> as it is copyright violation, as well
[05:23] <mdke> hehe
[05:23] <mdke> Burgundavia, that is debateable.
[05:23] <Burgundavia> yes
[05:24] <Burgundavia> as the 5.04 is a deriv on the 4.10 one
[05:24] <Burgundavia> and the 4.10 was tri-licensed
[05:24] <mdke> there is a clear intention to give a licence on his page, even if it isn't properly done
[05:24] <Burgundavia> but our wiki is not gpl
[05:24] <Burgundavia> thus it is license violation
[05:24] <Burgundavia> as gpl and gfdl cannot be mixed
[05:24] <mdke> that is a very stiff way of looking at it
[05:25] <Burgundavia> the law is very stiff
[05:25] <Burgundavia> it sucks but is true
[05:25] <mdke> hey
[05:25] <mdke> you canadians have the most flexible law of all of us
[05:25] <Burgundavia> not really
[05:25] <HrdwrBoB> Burgundavia: stuff on the wiki inherently becomes GFDL?
[05:25] <Burgundavia> HrdwrBoB, dual licensed, actually
[05:25] <Burgundavia> gfdl and cc-by-sa2.0
[05:26] <Burgundavia> well, the new canadian copyright law is mixed bag
[05:26] <Burgundavia> some good, some bad
[05:26] <Burgundavia> that is OT though
[05:27] <HrdwrBoB> so you can't have a section with a disclaimer that's GPL
[05:27] <Burgundavia> actually, you can't have the entire guide
[05:27] <Burgundavia> removing the gpl stuff doesn't unlicense it
[05:27] <HrdwrBoB> the GPL stuff isn't removed
[05:27] <HrdwrBoB> I moved it to the bottom
[05:27] <Burgundavia> yes
[05:28] <Burgundavia> the ubuntuguide.org author released the 4.10 version to the doc team under our licenses
[05:28] <Burgundavia> you can use that
[05:29] <HrdwrBoB> ok
[05:30] <Burgundavia> but honestly, one monolithic page is not useful
[05:31] <HrdwrBoB> possibly, but it seems to be preferred by end users
[05:31] <Burgundavia> no, end users want quick information
[05:31] <Burgundavia> there are many way so geting that to them
[05:31] <Burgundavia> a monolithic page is one way
[05:31] <Burgundavia> a well linked wiki is our way
[05:32] <HrdwrBoB> true
[05:33] <Burgundavia> so, for your page, what are we going to do with it?
[05:34] <HrdwrBoB> I just updated it with a "under development due to copyright issues" message
[05:34] <Burgundavia> ok
[05:35] <Burgundavia> please don't like it from anywhere
[06:02] <Burgundavia> this a useful link to keep?
[06:02] <Burgundavia> http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/
[06:47] <jsgotangco> hello
[07:24] <robitaille> jsgotangco:  hi (30 minutes later...)
[07:24] <Burgundavia> salut all
[08:27] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, jeezz you're busy today
[08:27] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:28] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EverydayUsage
[08:28] <Burgundavia> kill it?
[08:29] <jsgotangco> it seems pretty rendundant
[08:32] <Burgundavia> what is this?
[08:32] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StopGnomeFromRestarting
[08:36] <Burgundavia> can I kill it?
[08:37] <jsgotangco> sure mdke wanted to kill that page before
[08:37] <Burgundavia> done
[08:38] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuSecurity  should we bother keeping it?  I created that page as a proof of concept during a mailing list conversation, but obviously it hasn't be updated in 3 months.
[08:39] <Burgundavia> kill it
[08:39] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IsoImage
[08:40] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DowngradingFromHoaryHowTo , kill that?
[08:40] <rob^> is there a copy of ubuntuguide on the wiki?
[08:40] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:40] <jsgotangco> downgrading is ridiculous
[08:40] <Burgundavia> UbuntuGuide
[08:41] <rob^> you could always replace it with the one in subversion when we're done
[08:41] <Burgundavia> there already is one
[08:41] <Burgundavia> FAQGuide
[08:41] <rob^> yes, thats the one I'm talking about
[08:43] <rob^> or even just remove the wiki one, I think ours will be on help.u.c when its done
[08:43] <robitaille> downgrading to Warty was on topic during Hoary's developmental cycle and users were upgrading for no real reason for no real reason.  Now, it's kind of useless.
[08:43] <Burgundavia> it is already dead
[08:43] <rob^> hehe
[08:44] <rob^> good work though
[08:44] <rob^> the wiki needed it
[08:45] <robitaille> UbuntuSecurity is now gone.
[08:45] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NanoHowto
[08:46] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IsoImage  I would kill it; not really useful content
[08:47] <Burgundavia> dead
[08:48] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NanoHowto  keep it?  there is some limited content in there for people interested in that application.
[08:50] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinishInstallationHowto
[08:51] <Burgundavia> is this out of date? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NautilusScriptsHowto
[08:53] <robitaille> from memory, NautilusScriptsHowto is where people were dumping example of Nautilus script.  A bit stale, but I don't think it is out of date per say; probably still useful as examples to use if you are trying to write your own scripts.
[08:54] <robitaille> I keep seeing my name on all these old pages because they all have icons that got repaired recently :)
[08:54] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:54] <Burgundavia> most of them are very old
[08:54] <robitaille> FinishInstallationHowto   I would delete
[08:55] <robitaille> very limited content....need to much love to be even remotely useful
[08:55] <Burgundavia> dead
[08:56] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WhyIMAP   should that be CatDocumentation?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> I would just kill it
[08:57] <robitaille> I'm 50/50 on WhyIMAP.  Too many new users have no ideas about IMap vs POP
[08:57] <Burgundavia> yes, but it doesn't really serve any audience
[08:58] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallingMplayerFromHoaryInWarty
[08:59] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OpenVPNClientMiniHowto
[08:59] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToEnableMiddleClickURLLoadingInFirefox   I'm a bit confuse by that page.  Is that middle-button loading creating a new tab?  Or something else?
[09:00] <Burgundavia> that is garbage
[09:00] <robitaille> InstallingMplayerFromHoaryInWarty
[09:01] <Burgundavia> kill it?
[09:01] <robitaille> is probably not worth keeping.
[09:01] <Burgundavia> dead
[09:02] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantumLogicCorpoation
[09:02] <Burgundavia> spam?
[09:03] <robitaille> spam with a typo :)
[09:03] <Burgundavia> dead
[09:03] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RemoteConnectionUbuntuLiveCD
[09:04] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OpenVPNClientMiniHowto   talk about v2, which is only available in Breezy.  So worth keeping around for a bit longer?
[09:04] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:04] <Burgundavia> tagged as documentation
[09:04] <Burgundavia> I am going to kill the middleclick page
[09:05] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FOSSFP
[09:05] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FasterBootProcess
[09:05] <Burgundavia> development only
[09:06] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility this is a glossary only term?
[09:07] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RemoteConnectionUbuntuLiveCD   risky business...but could be of use for someone.
[09:07] <Burgundavia> I will tag it and then note that it is risky
[09:10] <robitaille> Accessibility:  looks like a glossary term for a page;  Not sure from where.  AccessibilityTeam needs a bit of my love on some links
[09:10] <Burgundavia> I will kill it
[09:11] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThunderbirdDefaultMailerHowto <-- one liner, better served in a more general place
[09:12] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder     Should we have a general Confence Cateogry for the various past and future COFs pages?
[09:12] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:13] <Burgundavia> is this true anymore? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelDoesNotSupportCapabilities
[09:16] <HrdwrBoB> if it is, it could be cleaned up a bit
[09:16] <Burgundavia> why? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallingFirefox
[09:16] <Burgundavia> HrdwrBoB, go to it
[09:17] <HrdwrBoB> $() is better than `
[09:17] <HrdwrBoB> and it's better to add the module to /etc/modules
[09:17] <HrdwrBoB> then all you have to do is mkinitrd
[09:17] <Burgundavia> fix the page pleaes
[09:17] <HrdwrBoB> and all future initrds will be created correctly
[09:17] <Burgundavia> and add CategoryDocumentation to it
[09:17] <HrdwrBoB> doing so
[09:18] <Burgundavia> cheers, thanks
[09:18] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstallingFirefox  wasn't that on the WikiTODO list (install thunderbird and firefox from mozilla.org)?
[09:18] <Burgundavia> do we really need a howto on installing from source?
[09:19] <Burgundavia> a user is more likely to seriously mess up their system with that
[09:19] <robitaille> people keep asking for it....
[09:19] <Burgundavia> is there a page that is better for this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WirelessFirmware
[09:19] <Burgundavia> ok, I will add huge "do not do" things on it
[09:20] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiToDo has Firefox+Thunderbird page to do.  Not sure who added that request
[09:21] <robitaille> how to add a new category? for that COF one?  
[09:21] <Burgundavia> added huge caveat and category
[09:22] <Burgundavia> add it a page
[09:22] <Burgundavia> This page lists all pages in the documentation category on the wiki:
[09:22] <Burgundavia> [[FullSearch()] ] 
[09:22] <Burgundavia> then add that to a page
[09:24] <Burgundavia> wow, take peek --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WartyWarthogTasks
[09:25] <robitaille> oh, that's simple.  So "CategoryUbuntuConferences"?
[09:27] <robitaille> delete?   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnderCarPool
[09:27] <robitaille> a bit late for car pool :)
[09:27] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:28] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:29] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PerkyPenguin
[09:29] <Burgundavia> I feel perky today
[09:30] <Burgundavia> more oldness --> 
[09:30] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WartyWarthogReleaseSchedule
[09:31] <robitaille> carpool is gone.  CategoryUbuntuConferences has been created.
[09:32] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StagesOfUse
[09:34] <robitaille> what was the perkypenguin page?    it is already gone :)
[09:34] <Burgundavia> oh sorry
[09:34] <Burgundavia> some non-ubuntu release planning
[09:34] <Burgundavia> what I want are nice templates
[09:35] <Burgundavia> in wikipedia I can add a stub message to a page, and it automatically gets added to a category
[09:35] <Burgundavia> thus I could tag a page with "NotUpdatedforHoary" and it would be added to the CategoryUpdateForHoary
[09:36] <Burgundavia> useful as a historical articfact?
[09:36] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnifiedHardwareDetectionBOF
[09:37] <robitaille> StagesofUse was on the agenda of that DocTeam meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeamMeeting20041104
[09:37] <Burgundavia> ah, ok
[09:38] <robitaille> UnifiedHardwareDetectionBOF
[09:38] <robitaille> was that in Sydney?
[09:38] <Burgundavia> no, Mataro
[09:39] <Burgundavia> all of UDU is on the UDU wiki
[09:41] <jsgotangco> jiyuu0, hello
[09:44] <robitaille> Burgundavia: we finally did it:  tried to edit the same page at the same time:  "Conference".
[09:45] <robitaille> but your version won
[09:45] <Burgundavia> oh
[09:45] <Burgundavia> that is not bad
[09:45] <Burgundavia> I am working from the bottom of the recent changes, 90 page
[09:46] <jsgotangco> good thing you guys werent fixing X or else we now know why its not working heh
[09:46] <jsgotangco> (joke)
[09:47] <Burgundavia> there are a lot of pages on the wiki that i had no idea existed
[09:47] <Burgundavia> think I can kill this?
[09:47] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Dashboard
[09:47] <Burgundavia> dashboard is basically dead
[09:47] <Burgundavia> beagle is coming along nicely though
[09:48] <jiyuu0> jsgotangco, yes :)
[09:51] <Burgundavia> does evolution spam filter by default?
[09:52] <robitaille> don't think so.  I think you have to install spamassassin to be able to enable it.  (never done it)
[09:53] <jsgotangco> ewww
[09:53] <Burgundavia> ok, saved that page
[09:53] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Gtk1Fonts
[09:54] <robitaille> Gtk1Fonts is probably of use for some "older" applications...like xmms in the example
[09:54] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:54] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FOSSFP <-- why is this on our wiki?
[09:56] <robitaille> FOSSFP is promoting the wide-spread use of UBUNTU in Pakistan. FOSSFP is the main contact for UBUNTU in Pakistan.
[09:56] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:56] <robitaille> from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FouadRiazBajwa
[09:56] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:56] <jsgotangco> eh?
[09:56] <jsgotangco> pretty structured heh
[09:57] <jiyuu0> promoting ubuntu?
[09:57] <jiyuu0> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=48335&highlight=workshop
[09:57] <jiyuu0> just did this 2 days ago :-)
[09:57] <Burgundavia> out of date?
[09:57] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EventsInBelgium
[09:58] <jsgotangco> jiyuu0, ooohh pretty neat
[09:58] <Burgundavia> very nice
[09:58] <Burgundavia> all those shiny new machines
[09:58] <jsgotangco> nice lab
[09:58] <jiyuu0> first lab was ok
[09:58] <jiyuu0> but warty live can't display res properly
[09:58] <jiyuu0> 640
[09:59] <jiyuu0> 2nd lab, those shinny machines... can't install warty
[09:59] <jiyuu0> live also can't work
[09:59] <jiyuu0> but works fine for hoary
[09:59] <jiyuu0> but the unfortunate thing is, my CDs are all warty
[09:59] <jsgotangco> must be machines with shared video 
[09:59] <jsgotangco> eh?
[09:59] <jsgotangco> you should have asked mako for cds
[10:00] <jiyuu0> haven come yet
[10:00] <Burgundavia> if you are doing an event, he can bump your order
[10:00] <jsgotangco> i got loads from UDU
[10:00] <jsgotangco> but i dont have them anymore
[10:01] <jiyuu0> they were pretty much ok with ubuntu
[10:01] <jsgotangco> grrr if i had access to such labs i would do the same
[10:01] <robitaille> I want to do an internal seminar at work about Ubuntu in Sept-Oct;  I'll have to bug Mako before then.
[10:01] <jiyuu0> but at the end of class, i ask em to burn the mepis and ubuntu
[10:01] <jiyuu0> most of em choose mepis
[10:02] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:02] <jsgotangco> they like KDE then
[10:02] <jiyuu0> i think new to linux ppl like kde more
[10:02] <jsgotangco> its understandable
[10:02] <jsgotangco> its also the colors
[10:02] <jiyuu0> and they said, everything in one easier
[10:03] <jsgotangco> my wife prefers using RHEL than Ubuntu probabaly because of bluecurve
[10:03] <Burgundavia> ironically, RH is dropping bluecurve
[10:03] <robitaille> EventsInBelgium:  maybe add a note about the out of date event? But we should keep it.  They ar most up to date than Canadian events :)
[10:04] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, really? what for? Clearlooks?
[10:04] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:04] <jsgotangco> well that's a step forward i guess
[10:05] <Burgundavia> there is a lot of crap docs on our wiki
[10:06] <robitaille> but less now than a few hours ago :)
[10:06] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:07] <Burgundavia> umm --> 
[10:07] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StaticMediaAccompanyingDebs
[10:09] <robitaille> obviously someone trying to sell an idea who got initially turned down on ubuntu=devel
[10:09] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:09] <Burgundavia> kill the page?
[10:10] <Burgundavia> do we know have japanese input by deafult?
[10:10] <robitaille> I think so.  That's conference'spec material
[10:10] <robitaille> if it was accepted....
[10:12] <robitaille> InputMethods refers to that Japanese input page....
[10:12] <Burgundavia> should we have a category people?
[10:13] <Burgundavia> from the old doc team --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelHowto
[10:13] <robitaille> category people?  like this: CategoryHomepage
[10:14] <Burgundavia> ah, nev mind
[10:14] <robitaille> notice in that KernelHowTo the link to the unknown CategoryTechnical
[10:14] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:15] <robitaille> I'm going to bed...I have to work tomorrow morning...
[10:22] <jsgotangco> ooh there's a CC meeeting tommorow
[10:23] <Burgundavia> right, when?
[10:24] <Burgundavia> ouch 1400 UTC
[10:24] <Burgundavia> is 7 am
[10:25] <jsgotangco> hmmm i make it on meetings with 6am on my side :P
[10:27] <Burgundavia> right
[10:34] <jsgotangco> w007!
[10:34] <Burgundavia> hmm?
[10:34] <jsgotangco> it arrived! it arrived at last!
[10:34] <jsgotangco> a parcel just arrived my copy of Zeta
[10:34] <jsgotangco> heh
[10:35] <Burgundavia> zeta?
[10:35] <jsgotangco> www.yellowtab.com
[10:35] <Burgundavia> ah, that
[11:01] <Burgundavia> morning Kinnison
[11:02] <Kinnison> morning burgey
[11:35] <rwabel> Burgundavia: do you know that the HowToStart page is in czech
[11:35] <Burgundavia> where?
[11:36] <jsgotangco> well its under LoCoTeams category
[11:36] <rwabel> but it's on the main page of the wiki
[11:37] <rwabel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToStart
[11:37] <rwabel> it's linked under Community
[11:39] <Burgundavia> you want to fix that?
[11:39] <jsgotangco> oohhh
[11:41] <rwabel> who?
[11:42] <Burgundavia> remoe the link or fix the page
[11:42] <rwabel> I can remove it, but I can't fix the page...don't speak czech
[11:42] <Burgundavia> ok
[11:43] <rwabel> we should ask the author to translate
[11:43] <rwabel> damn...no email
[11:43] <Burgundavia> then just remove the link
[11:44] <Burgundavia> and rename the page to CzechLocoTeam
[11:44] <rwabel> yes
[11:46] <mdke> morning
[11:46] <mdke> but check for backlinks before you rename
[11:47] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:48] <rwabel> done
[11:49] <mdke> it is still linked
[11:50] <jsgotangco> hi mdke
[11:50] <rwabel> no
[11:50] <rwabel> I've removed...strange
[11:50] <rwabel> will check again
[11:51] <mdke> its linked in a page called TheUbuntuCommunity
[11:52] <rwabel> sorry, I shouldn't use opera..I get sometimes problem while editing with opera
[11:54] <mdke> ouch
[11:54] <mdke> ebil
[04:44] <jjesse> don't know if this is a known issue, but i reloaded kubuntu (hoary) this weekend and my homepage is the default one
[04:44] <jjesse> get an error message "The file /usr/share/ubunut-artwork/home/index.html cannot be found.  Please check the location and try again.
[05:13] <mdke> jjesse, looks like a typo
[05:31] <jjesse> wait i typed it
[05:32] <jjesse> hold on
[05:32] <jjesse> ubuntu is spelled correctly
[05:32] <mdke> ok
[05:32] <jjesse> it is looking for /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html
[05:32] <mdke> well they have probably removed it from the artwork package
[05:32] <mdke> it should never have been there anyway
[05:33] <jjesse> things now located at /usr/share/ubuntu-docs?
[05:33] <mdke> it should point at the aboutubuntu doc from ubuntu-docs or kubuntu-docs
[05:33] <mdke> but we haven't got an ubuntu-docs yet ;)
[05:34] <jjesse> even though there is a folder there
[09:25] <mdke> mgalvin, rob^, commit accounts?
[09:26] <mgalvin> mdke, not yet ;(
[09:33] <mdke> gah
[09:33] <mdke> i've sent elmo PM's and stressed him in -devel
[09:33] <mdke> i wouldn't mind if he explained why he can't do it, but he just doesn't answer
[09:33] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:34] <mdke> after undertaking to put all requests through in 48 hours, 3 weeks or more is a bit much...
[09:34] <Treenaks> Hello all
[09:34] <mdke> welcome
[09:35] <mdke> what's on your mind?
[09:35] <mgalvin> has he gotten back from debconf yet
[09:35] <mdke> mgalvin, just about.
[09:35] <Treenaks> I'm planning to have a mini-meeting with the Ubuntu-NL LoCoTeam somewhere just after breezy-release (early November), to translate as much docs as possible to Dutch
[09:35] <mdke> cool
[09:35] <Treenaks> is there a "translation policy"
[09:36] <mdke> Treenaks, we will be using Rosetta to translate
[09:36] <Treenaks> mdke: for the wiki too?
[09:36] <mdke> no wiki is not official docs, just for official docs we will use rosetta
[09:36] <Treenaks> mdke: ah ok
[09:36] <Treenaks> mdke: most upstream docs are OK (especially Gnome, etc.)
[09:36] <mdke> Treenaks, about a month before breezy we have a string freeze, at that stage we will through the stuff into rosetta
[09:37] <mdke> and then make a mad appeal for translations
[09:37] <Treenaks> mdke: it's more like the questions we get tired off answering on the mailinglists & irc :)
[09:37] <mdke> Treenaks, well hopefully our docs will be useful for that
[09:37] <mdke> Treenaks, we are writing a number of guides
[09:38] <Treenaks> mdke: guides.. like "I want to play an mp3"-guide etc.?
[09:38] <mdke> check out the work in progress at http://tseng2.ath.cx/~ubuntu-doc/ (ubuntu) and http://www.lnix.net/~froud/ (kubuntu)
[09:38] <mdke> Treenaks, there is a frequently asked questions guide, which will certainly cover that question ;)
[09:39] <Treenaks> mdke: and this will all be rosetta stuff?
[09:39] <mdke> yep
[09:40] <Treenaks> mdke: we can't get cheap enough space to stay for a weekend before the release though :(
[09:40] <Treenaks> mdke: and we really want to make it a LoCo activity :)
[09:41] <mdke> Treenaks, translation in rosetta is available to all. I agree the locoteam should coordinate it
[09:41] <mdke> but we have to try and get as much done before breezy as possible
[09:41] <Treenaks> mdke: of course
[09:41] <mdke> we will be appealing to locoteams and generally to the translation mailing list/community
[09:42] <mdke> Treenaks, i supose the locoteam coordinates the dutch translation group in rosetta?
[09:42] <Treenaks> mdke: not quite
[09:42] <Treenaks> mdke: for some reasons people don't come to the Dutch LoCoTeam
[09:42] <Treenaks> or at least
[09:42] <Treenaks> different people do
[09:42] <mdke> Treenaks, we all have that problem
[09:42] <mdke> but you can get through it :)
[09:43] <Treenaks> mdke: yes.. and we might just make it a hackfest, if everything is translated beforehand :)
[09:43] <Treenaks> mdke: teaching packaging stuf
[09:43] <Treenaks> f
[09:43] <mdke> well we'll see
[09:43] <mdke> all you dutch speak perfect english anyhow...
[09:44] <Treenaks> mdke: yes.. but my grandmother does not
[09:44] <Treenaks> mdke: and en_NL is not really a supported locale :)
[09:44] <mdke> tsk tsk
[09:45] <mdke> ;)
[09:45] <mdke> well i am a big fan of translation
[09:45] <mdke> i will make sure to come to you guys when we are looking for translators
[09:45] <Treenaks> mdke: ok, we hang out on #ubuntu-nl
[09:45] <mdke> sure
[09:46] <mdke> i will go to #ubuntu-locoteams :)
[09:46] <Treenaks> mdke: is there one?
[09:46] <mdke> maybe visit some individual channels if I can
[09:46] <mdke> Treenaks, yes, Seveas is often there
[09:46] <Treenaks> ah cool
[09:47] <Treenaks> mdke: yeah, he's the new "official" leader, I'm the old one :)
[09:47] <mdke> revolution eh
[09:47] <mdke> ;)
[09:47] <Treenaks> mdke: not really.. just jack of motivation.. and I do more now than I did first :)
[09:47] <mdke> that's cool
[09:47] <Treenaks> anyway -> otherchannel
[09:55] <mdke> mgalvin, actually now I look at the faq guide I don't quite understand the structure
[09:56] <mdke> you around?
[09:56] <mgalvin> mdke, yea
[09:56] <mgalvin> looking at it now
[09:56] <mdke> mgalvin, ok chapter 3 is obviously pretty big
[09:56] <mgalvin> i haven't looked since rob^ updated it
[09:57] <mdke> and groups a number of things
[09:57] <mdke> but then some of the other later chapters are very specific, e.g. apache, streaming media server
[09:57] <mgalvin> does the faqguide build for you?
[09:57] <mdke> also tips and tricks is very large
[09:58] <mdke> mgalvin, yeah i'm looking at it here: http://tseng2.ath.cx/~ubuntu-doc/faqi386/C/
[09:58] <mgalvin> well chapter 3 just goes over installing common things, and there are a lot of them
[09:58] <mgalvin> failed for me, will look at it there
[09:58] <mdke> the thing that strikes me is that users may well find it hard to find what they are looking for. First of all because they don't know whether to look in tips and tricks, add-on applications etc, and secondly because a new user will not know what things like ssh and samba are
[09:59] <mgalvin> right ok
[09:59] <mdke> for example if I want to enable mp3 support, where do I go?
[09:59] <mdke> i look down, i see networking, security, but no multimedia/music
[09:59] <mgalvin> maybe we should break the add-on apps into sections based on type of app
[10:00] <mgalvin> multimedia, office, development, etc...
[10:00] <mdke> i would say the whole thing could be type-based
[10:01] <mdke> because having a single chapter for add on applications, and a single chapter just for DHCP (which a new user will struggle to figure out what is about) seems odd
[10:01] <mgalvin> agreed
[10:01] <mdke> i would say things like ssh, samba, apache, dhcp should be under networking
[10:02] <mdke> and maybe have more user friendly titles
[10:02] <mgalvin> right they should be, right now its still reflects ubuntuguide.org
[10:02] <mgalvin> we should organize it better
[10:02] <mdke> yeah i was just thinking that is the reason
[10:03] <mdke> with ubuntuguide because it was one single page, structure didn't matter that much because users would just search
[10:03] <mdke> for us, we need to get the categories right
[10:03] <mgalvin> yup
[10:04] <mdke> and the titles. 3.13. 	
[10:04] <mgalvin> additionally, ubuntuguide is meant to be a beginners getting started guide but...
[10:04] <mdke> "How to install Multimedia Codecs?" is not user friendly
[10:04] <mdke> my flatmate has had a computer for years and I taught him what a codec is just today
[10:05] <mgalvin> it seems to have gotten into really tech stuff like dhcp and streaming servers which most users don't need
[10:05] <mdke> mgalvin, i think it is cool to have them, but they need to be in categories so that users know where to find them, and what they do
[10:06] <mdke> Burgundavia, btw check UserDocumentation, I was chatting in #moin today and one of the guys was playing around with the TOC. I'm not sure whether I like it or not.
[10:07] <Burgundavia> on the side roc?
[10:07] <Burgundavia> toc
[10:08] <Burgundavia> hmm
[10:08] <Burgundavia> I am also undecided
[10:08] <Burgundavia> shall we solicit opinion elsewhere?
[10:10] <mgalvin> so we should start moving the content into more properly named categories add provide more friendly titles, i am all for it, it will definitely help make the doc understandable/useable
[10:10] <Burgundavia> more cruft
[10:10] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HoaryDVDRippingandEncoding
[10:11] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LinuxForReal
[10:11] <mgalvin> er more understandable
[10:11] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOnIBMLaptop
[10:13] <Burgundavia> I had a thought regarding cleanup
[10:13] <Burgundavia> rather than have a page for it
[10:14] <Burgundavia> have a category
[10:14] <Burgundavia> is more scalable
[12:00] <Burgundavia> hey
[12:00] <Burgundavia> the doc team does the wiki
[12:01] <|rockinnerd|> ah.
[12:01] <Burgundavia> and that windows page needs some major love
[12:01] <Burgundavia> thanks for doing it
[12:01] <mdke> Burgundavia, url?
[12:01] <|rockinnerd|> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WindowsDualBootHowTo
[12:01] <|rockinnerd|> np
[12:01] <mdke> thanks
[12:01] <|rockinnerd|> np