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seb128jdub: l10n list? You are doing it now? I've the feeling it's going to while for a long time after reading your mail :p01:22
jp_wow, muine sux as package :/ I got millions of errors and segmenations faults :) tseng ;)01:23
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danielsdoko: it causes problems when linking sometimes01:33
mjg59usplash actually does useful stuff now01:36
mjg59I'll try to get a tarball up in the morning01:36
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HiddenWolfmjg59, you mean there is actually work being done on usplash?01:37
Nafallomjg59: does it support 16:10? :-)01:37
HiddenWolfmjg59, it'd better ;)01:38
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mjg59It'll use640x480 in 16 ccolours on x86. This is non-negotiable.01:41
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mjg59HiddenWolf: Well, my laptop currently uses it while booting, so yes...01:42
mjg59A few things to sort out yet, though01:42
HiddenWolfmjg59, Will it actionally be in Breezy?01:43
Nafallomjg59: no amd64 in other words :-P01:44
mjg59Should be01:44
mjg59Nafallo: The same on amd6401:44
mjg59On PPC, it should look nicer01:44
Nafallothen the artwork team has to do something that looks great both on 4:3 and 16:10 ;-)01:45
Gnobodyare you talking about usplash?01:45
HiddenWolfmjg59, why does it look better on ppc?01:46
NafalloGnobody: indeed01:46
mjg59Because PPC has offb01:46
infinityHiddenWolf : Because PPC has video init in the firmware.01:46
mjg59Whereas we're stuck with vga16fb on x8601:46
mjg59(if we want suspend/resume to work)01:47
tsengjp_: +1 funny01:47
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GnobodyI hope it is black & white because if they try to add colours it will look fugly01:50
mjg59Mm? 01:50
mjg59It's eays enough to do an attractive 16 colour image01:50
daniels640x480x16 is the only thing that's guaranteed to work01:51
danielsat least, if it doesn't work, you're justified in stabbing your laptop manufacturer in the eye01:52
Gnobodybut most hardware can do higher res/colour FBs 01:52
danielsin theory, yes01:52
danielsin reality, you need to work out exactly *how*01:52
mjg59Gnobody: Yes. But not if you want suspend/resume support.01:52
danielsthe logic for this is too complex to put into a tiny image-displayer01:52
infinityGnobody : I don't recall anyone complaining about the 640x480x16 Win32 boot screens ovre the years.01:53
Gnobodyyeah but it's windows; everything is a second grade hack01:53
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Gnobodyand XP is 4 years old01:54
tsengso are many pcs01:54
=== infinity fails to see the issue.
infinityIt's a boot screen, not the desktop.01:54
Gnobodyit's not a big deal01:54
GnobodyI probably wont use a splash01:54
danielsif the boot screen is up for any length of time, then we've failed anyway01:54
GnobodyI like my kernel messages, they scare n00bs away01:55
Nafallohehe. like xorg.01:55
=== Nafallo hides *
infinityHey, would you look at that?... xorg is in sync on amd64 again.01:55
=== infinity cheers the buildds for catching up.
tsenginfinity: oh dude01:55
mdkesometimes I come across users who report dependency errors with libraries when using backports. How can I report these? do backports have a bug area?01:55
Gnobodydoes xorg work by default in breezy yet?01:55
tsenginfinity: did you look at my gtk-sharp2 x86 segfaults01:55
infinitytseng : Yes, but I have no satisfactory answer for you yet.  I'll look harder in a bit.01:56
jp_can somebody update to th new sticky notes? it rocks :)01:56
infinitytseng : How on earth that tool segfaults at all is a bit of a mystery, though.  Seems rather fragile.01:56
tsenginfinity: thanks. it breaks other packages01:56
tsengeh it doesnt segfault in my chroot01:56
tsengor on the other buildd's01:57
infinityBy "other", you mean "other non-i386", right?01:57
tsengyes, but my pbuilder is x8601:57
infinityIt does die on all 3 i386 buildds the same.01:57
tsengso, whats the difference between pbuilder and sbuild chroot01:57
infinityI can grab you a list of installed packages.01:58
elmoeh, pbuilder vs. sbuilder isn't going to cause a segfault01:58
tsengelmo: exactly.01:58
elmoit's far more likely to be what's installed/not installed, versions or the kernel01:58
elmotseng: that's hardly the only difference01:58
infinityBeyond that, not much.  /proc mounted (or not), kernel versions.01:58
seth_kmdke: backports bugs go on the forums I think01:58
infinityelmo : Thanks for reviving amd64, BTW.01:59
tsengwell, ive tested it to be sure that it doesnt segfault on missing proc01:59
=== Jimbob patiently awaits the xbase-clients deps in powerpc
tsengit dies spectacuarly01:59
tsengbut its not a segfault01:59
elmoinfinity: no prob01:59
Gnobodydoes xorg work by default in breezy yet?02:00
elmoinfinity: but we need to kill one of them at some point this week with the breezy kernel02:00
JimbobGnobody: Works for Me(tm)02:00
mdkeseth_k, ok i'm writing there02:00
infinityelmo : Fine by me.  The backlog will be dead within another few hours, at this rate.  At that point, you can have one for the rest of the week. :)02:00
elmoinfinity: since "breezy kernel doesn't survive as a buildd" is a teh suck of bugs02:00
Gnobodydid you have create a bunch symlinks and hack the crap out of you xorg.conf?02:01
danielsinfinity: in sync on amd64 -> broken for EVERYONE.  whoohoo!02:01
infinityelmo : We could dedicate the breezy kernel test to a single buildd doing breezy-test builds, killing two birds with one stone.  Heavy buildd useage, and breezy-test.02:01
elmoinfinity: yah02:02
Nafallodaniels: haha! I wont update then ;-)02:02
infinitydaniels : Fair's fair.02:02
Nafallohehe. I wonder if my neighboors here my laughing in the dark ;)02:03
danielselmo: thanks for fixing them, all the same02:03
Nafalloindeed. thanx elmo :-).02:04
=== Gnobody is wondering if he should take the Breezy plunge... again..
infinityGnobody : Not for about 3 or 4 days.02:04
Gnobodywhy 3 or 4 days?02:04
infinityGnobody : If you like pretty graphical thingees, anyway.02:05
Gnobodyyou mean X?02:05
infinityThat'd be the one.02:05
Gnobodyahh it's still broken02:05
infinity<daniels> infinity: in sync on amd64 -> broken for EVERYONE.  whoohoo!02:05
HiddenWolfGnobody, I'd think so02:05
Gnobodywho needs X when you can have bitchx and links202:05
crimsunelmo: please pull wxwidgets2.6 from experimental02:05
elmocrimsun: no, there's something like that in NEW already02:07
crimsunelmo: err, oops. Thanks!02:08
opihey guys02:08
elmocrimsun: and doko wants it to go in main or some such crack, so it's getting bounced up the chain02:08
opianyone has a WAP enabled mobile toy? ;)02:08
crimsunelmo: ah, well he knows better than I do. :)02:08
opiI've just hacked a WAP Planet.ubuntu-pl.org feed ;)02:08
Nafallohmm. updates. a week of them :-P02:13
tsengelmo: did you get my mails for gmime2.1 and cli-common from unstable?02:14
tsengelmo: no rush, just have trouble with loosing mail02:14
elmotseng: yes, already done02:14
tsengthanks :)02:14
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Burgundaviacan I pull crackish ideas like Yast2 from IdeaPool ?02:21
tsengyou can comment on their high level of crackfulness02:22
mdkei thought crackish ideas were your speciality burgs02:22
Burgundaviathere is a difference between good crackish and bad crackish02:22
tsengim not sure if its fair for a docteam member to arbitrarily axe feature requests02:22
tsengnot as a slap, just saying.02:23
tsengi seem to recall sitting around with silbs and daniel laughing at most of the idea pool02:24
tsengbut not really having a good feeling about actively blowing people off02:24
tsengits just a wiki page02:24
Burgundaviathere are some gems there02:24
Burgundaviaand if you read through what people want and not what they say, you might be able to do something02:25
tsengdoes it include our friend with the mask?02:25
Burgundaviathe logo idea?02:25
mdkethat guy is working hard on his page02:25
mdkestrange idea02:25
danielsnothing if not enthusiastic02:25
Burgundaviahis art isn't bad02:25
tsengdaniels: best. changelog. ever.02:26
mdkepoint him at ArtTeam02:26
tsengmdke: he is on the mailing list. cant miss him.02:26
danielswhere's scott when I need him?02:27
danielscybersaga writes "ZDNet reports: "The open source Firefox browser and Thunderbird e-mail client will be updated for the second time in a week due to code changes that have unintentionally stopped some third-party extensions from functioning correctly." More details at MozillaZine. Firefox and Thunderbird versions 1.0.6 and Mozilla 1.7.10 are on their way."02:35
danielsWHEN WILL HOARY HAVE 1.0.6 OMG02:35
bob2it'd be cool if security fixes stopped breaking extebsions02:36
bddebianWHEN YOU BUILD IT :-)02:36
infinityMy extebsions work great.02:36
bob2that's because they're made out of ice tea02:36
bob2ULTIMATE ice ta02:38
danielser, uliit02:41
Riddelldaniels: what package have iceauth been moved to?02:44
danielsRiddell: i assume it used to be in xbase-clients02:45
danielsRiddell: it'll be in a package called 'iceauth' when everything's shuffled around02:45
Riddelldaniels: ok, I'll look forward to that then02:48
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danielswon't we all02:48
infinitydaniels : DO we get to un-transition GLU today?02:51
danielsinfinity: yeah02:51
danielsinfinity: shortly after breakfast02:51
danielsi'm just trying to fix the mechanics of the xlibs transition02:51
Nafallohmm, we might want to rebuild network-manager to remove libiw27 :-)02:52
Nafalloor is that motu now?02:52
infinitySmack thom.02:53
infinityIt's his baby currently.02:53
Nafallothom: we might want to rebuild network-manager to remove libiw27 :-)02:53
=== infinity glares at the arts failure on amd64, then glares at daniels.
infinitydaniels : Did libXrender.la wander off to neverneverland recently?02:55
tsengdaniels: oh, should we axe dbus-mono?02:56
danielstseng: yeah, totally02:57
danielsinfinity: yes, by choice02:57
tsengdaniels: someone bothered me to update/fix it. funny02:57
tsengelmo: can we axe dbus-mono source?02:57
infinitydaniels : Feh, so arts needs an update to stop looking for it.02:57
tsengelmo: built by dbus proper now.02:57
infinityRiddell : arts has enough of a KDE heritage that I can pawn this one off on you, right? :)02:58
Nafallowth! firefox is in swedish :-P02:59
Nafallohow did that happen?02:59
danielsinfinity: it's probably libqt-mt-dev, I'd guess03:01
Riddellinfinity: that's weird, qt should have been recompiled so it wouldn't pick up libXrender.la03:01
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infinityRiddell : Would that have broken if qt and xrender were built out of order?03:02
Riddellinfinity: quite possible03:02
infinityRiddell : ie: Did you have strict enough build-deps and a deterministic debian/rules, or were you just counting on the archive being consistent? :)03:02
danielsor qt and xcursor, or qt and xft03:03
infinityRiddell : If the build-deps weren't strict enough, please make them stricter (for the benefit of bootstrapping) and reupload.03:03
Riddellinfinity: not sure, I did have quite strict build deps because lamont was looking over my sholder, but could well have missed one03:03
infinityRiddell : Cause qt is definitely up to date on amd64, and arts is failing on Xrender.03:03
RiddellI'll build it on condordia and see what's up03:04
Riddellor can I?  condordia would need it's chroot updated03:04
infinityIt would.  Good thing elmo's awake.03:04
Riddellelmo: could you update concordia's chroot please03:04
Nafalloinfinity: amd64 is up2date already?03:04
danielsNafallo: a week's backlog is nothing03:05
danielsour buildds are world-endingly fast03:05
infinityNafallo : Everything but a few FTBFS issues and the entire QT/KDE chain (which is stuck on this issue)03:05
infinityNafallo : Otherwise, amd64 is back up to speed.03:05
Riddellwho looks after the cdimage torrents?03:05
Nafalloinfinity: yey! :-)03:06
NafalloRiddell: kamion I guess03:06
Nafallodaniels: seems so. and btw. you're soon to be blamed for waking up my neighboors. nice blogentry :-).03:06
Nafalloinfinity: evolution for example. I'll try to build it locally :-)03:07
RiddellKamion: I've had a complaint that the hoary kubuntru powerpc DVD isn't seeded03:07
Riddellelmo: please install libxcursor-dev too03:08
Riddellon condordia chroot03:08
infinityNafallo : I'm going to kick back all the failures once the new gcc-4.0 is built.03:09
Nafalloinfinity: ahh, oki :-)03:10
infinityNafallo : So, anything that's still failed in another 12+ hours is probably worth looking at.03:10
Riddellelmo: also libmysqlclient12-dev on concordia03:11
Nafalloinfinity: mostly I want my calenders back or I'm gonna miss that CC-meeting ;-)03:11
danielsNafallo: i try03:11
infinityCalendaring is for the weak.03:12
infinityOr the week, if you're into puns.03:12
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infinitydoko : I will buy you a new car if you split the non-system compilers out of the gcc source package.03:32
=== infinity falls asleep watching libjava build.
danielsinfinity: sleep? it's only 1134!03:33
Lathiatand i havent slept yet03:33
danielsi can prove that western australia doesn't exist03:33
Lathiathow so03:34
Lathiatthat said, if you prove it to me03:34
Lathiatyou would not have proved it, since i would no longer exist and never witnessed your proof03:34
infinitydaniels : Well, I was up all night...03:34
infinitydaniels : But mostly, libjava is just mind-numbingly dull to watch build.  (you should try it on m68k... no, really)03:35
danielsinfinity: vancouver!03:36
danielsthere's a flag called ToolkitStringsABIOptions in imake03:41
danielswhich passes the options to makestrs, which is used in the libXt build03:42
danielsthis is -intelabi everywhere03:42
danielseven on Solaris/SPARC03:42
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danielseven though there are things like, y'know, -sparcabi03:42
=== Lathiat laughs at daniels
Lathiat"Studies have shown that grilled cheese on toast is 97% better than libtool"03:47
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luis_don't most people think that grilled shit on toast would be 97% better than libtool?03:48
tritiummmm, did somebody say grilled shit on toast?03:48
Lathiatluis_: yes but its funny :)03:49
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infinityFeh.  gcc-4.0 is FTBFS trying to link Xrender.la too.04:25
infinityBrought in by god knows what.04:25
danielsinfinity: cairo04:25
infinityWas the last cairo upload not meant to fix that?04:25
infinity(Which I'm building against)04:26
danielsoh.  might be something else, then.04:26
danielsinfinity: lesstif?04:26
infinitycairo could have just been built out of order...04:27
infinityWhat's the fastest way to find the culprit?...04:27
danielsinfinity: grep -r libXrender.la /usr/lib04:27
danielsor /usr/lib/*.la /usr/lib/**/*.la04:27
danielsi can never remember the syntax for **04:27
infinityXft, cairo, gtk-2.0/2.4.0/immodules/*04:28
danielscairo probably needs a stricter b-d on xft04:29
danielsalternately, no-one in the world should be shipping .la files04:29
infinityAnd what's Xft's excuse? :)04:29
danielsas they're not useful on linux04:29
danielsxft probably needs a rebuild as well, though I thought riddell did one04:30
infinityAgain, probably not tight enough build-deps.04:30
infinityamd64 being down for a week likely exposed a few issues in that area, since I'm sure things weren't built in the order expected.04:30
infinityIf pure rebuilds will fix this, I'll just upload them in the right order again.04:30
infinityAny ETA on xbase-clients becoming installable again?04:31
danielsremind me again which binary packages are missing04:32
danielsif xhost, xdpyinfo, xsetmode and xsetpointer, I'm angling for tonight04:32
danielsbut, uh, the package will be somewhat empty04:32
infinityThose 4 and xrandr.04:34
infinityAnd I don't much care if the package is green with pink polkadots, so long as it installs and the things that indirectly build-dep on it start building again. :)04:36
danielsthe former, yes04:37
danielsthe latter, not so much04:37
infinityIs there a minimum version of libxrender-dev I should be setting these build-deps to?04:37
infinityThey're currently unversioned.  Naughty.04:37
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danielselmo: when NEWing stuff I upload, please put it into main unless I explicitly say otherwise04:56
danielselmo: i'm about to upload a bunch of new source packages to replace xbase-clients04:57
lamontmdz: ping04:57
infinityChanged-By: Adam Conrad <adconrad@localhost.localdomain>04:59
infinityGo me.04:59
infinityI'm so asleep at the wheel.04:59
danielsyeah, I've uploaded a few from Daniel Stone <daniels@brainfreeze.fooishbar.org>05:00
infinityAlright, libxft, libcairo, and gtk+2.0 fixed.  Hopefully, that'll do it.05:02
=== infinity taps his foot and waits for katie and wanna-build to get chatting.
infinityHrm.  Uploads from non-whitelisted addresses get listed as "From: Ubuntu Installer"... Cute.05:03
infinityGuess that hides my idiocy from plain view of the mailing list, at least.  <cough>05:03
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schweebinfinity: I noticed :p05:12
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bddebianAnyone know why zeiberbude wouldn't be able to find -lqt ?05:12
zwnji cannot build source packages with dpkg-deb -b.  any introdustoin/howto?05:14
bddebianUse debuild or dpkg-buildpackage? :-)05:15
zwnjbddebian: uhu, thanks05:16
zwnji'm new to ubuntu/debian.  i used to use redhat/fedora for 5 years... but no deb-based distro05:17
bddebianAh, well welcome05:17
bddebianSorry to hear about those 5 years of wasting your life. ;-)05:17
danielsbddebian: because -lqt has been deprecated for years05:18
bddebiandaniels: What is it now?  -lqtthreads?05:18
danielstry apt-cache search05:19
bddebianSearch for what?05:19
danielslibqt, maybe?05:20
zwnjbddebian: ;)05:20
bddebianI realize that it is libqt3 now but you can't do -lqt3 can you?05:21
danielsno, you can't.  keep didding.05:21
danielsdigging, also.05:21
zwnjbddebian: btw, i just started to read Redhat RPM Guide and dpkg's manuales to build packages... of course i try to build my RPMs on ubuntu ;)05:21
bddebianzwnj: Are you building for others or yourself?  If you just want to install, try alien05:22
zwnjbddebian: we develop some Persian localized utils, and i want package them in rpm and deb for Iranian users05:23
bddebianAh, cool05:23
zwnjbddebian: just got familiar with alien yesterday...05:24
bddebiandaniels: Well my only options in /usr/lib are libqtthreads and libqt-mt.  Am I going about this the wrong way?05:24
zwnjis anyone here familiar with gedit's plugin system?  who is the package manager of gnome stuff?05:25
bddebianzwnj: In Ubuntu, there is a Gnome team I believe.  As I understand Ubuntu, there is no 1 maintainer for a particular package05:26
bddebianBut don't quote me, I'm learning too :-)05:26
zwnji want to know how i should package a gedit plugin... because it's build system for plugins is a little complicated05:28
zwnjis anyone from gnome team here right now?05:28
bddebiandaniels: -lqt is single threaded but all the build depends use libqt-mt.  Why would they link against the single threaded version?05:30
danielsbddebian: exactly05:36
bddebianWill I cause a problem if I use -lqt-mt ?05:36
Amaranthholy crap it's been 8 hours and blam hasn't died05:37
Amaranththat's a new record05:37
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bddebianFux, I cleaned my build-tree. :-(05:40
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Amaranthif i try to read it, it will die05:43
Amaranthit's taunting me05:43
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bddebianEven though it pained you, thanks daniels  :-)05:46
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davydsomeone may know this05:50
davydwhy is Xscreensaver in Fedora Xinerama aware, but Xscreensaver in Ubuntu not?05:51
davydis it a compile time option?05:51
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danielsi'd imagine so05:59
danielsjust needs a build-depends on libxinerama-dev05:59
danielsi think ogra maintains xscreensavetr05:59
Amaranthdaniels: libtool doesn't like you?05:59
danielsAmaranth: it despises me and everything I stand for05:59
Amaranthyeah, good luck with that06:00
=== davyd attempts to establish why his chrooted GTK+ is ugly
=== davyd wonders if it's because something isn't installed
davydseems that might be the case06:03
=== davyd smacks himself for basically being an idiot
=== davyd dances
davydgo davy, it's your birthday!06:05
=== davyd copies his 4 gigs of test data onto his machine
Amaranthhrm, i don't think i want to mess with using bonobo to talk to rhythmbox06:08
Amaranthi was looking at some python code to do it, but it has a method named 'unfuckBonobo' so i think i'll forget about it06:08
bob2bddebian: install ccache06:08
bddebianbob2: ??06:09
bob2bddebian: ccache > you (apt-cache show ccache)06:09
bddebianAh cool, thanks06:09
bddebianOK, I'm now trying to patch this sucker with cdbs-edit-patch but I don't get a Makefile and that is what I need to patch?? :-(06:10
davydhas someone broken gdb on breezy?06:11
luis_worked here this morning, more or less06:14
davydseems to work in 64bit land06:14
davydbut not 32-bit land06:14
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bddebianHello fabbione 06:28
=== davyd attacks trs80 with a dalek
trs80hey davyd06:30
davydnow... I wish I knew why I don't have GCC in my chroot06:30
trs80I'd ask about my iowait problem, but it's pub lunch time06:30
davydmmm, lunch06:31
=== davyd considers gate crashing
trs80just for reference, breaking the raid 1 mirror didn't affect iowait times06:31
=== lamont sleeps
calcanyone know when thunderbird is going to be recompiled for new c++ ?06:40
Amaranthso, what's the magic command to make xlibs install? :)06:40
Amaranthor, does anyone have xlib 6.8.2-36?06:40
calcAmaranth: probably lots of holds06:40
calci have 6.8.2-42 installed06:41
danielsinfinity: ?06:41
Amaranthi know i have to do something to the postinst script, but i don't know where it is or what to do to it06:41
calci also have ~ 9 holds currently to be able to upgrade06:41
calci didn't do anything special06:41
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seth_kgraah, anyone have any clue how to get my timezone back to normal after getting hit by this bug (https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9207) ?06:48
seth_k /etc/timezone even says (correctly) "America/Chicago", but I'm stuck at GMT and don't know how to make it go back06:49
Amaranthyay, fixed it06:50
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Amaranthi needed to recreate /etc/X11/xkb/types/ as an empty dir so postinst could remove it06:51
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infinitydaniels : ?06:51
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danielsinfinity: when are we transitioning?06:53
danielsinfinity: do you want to start at, say, 5?06:54
danielsinfinity: or do you need to crash?06:54
danielsi'd like to do some more upgrade testing06:54
danielsAmaranth: libglu needs to go back from c2 -> ligblu106:55
Amaranthoh yeah06:55
Amaranthbecause even though it's C++ it exports a C interface or something like that06:56
danielsthe fact it's written in C++ is an implementation detail06:56
danielsnot the ABI06:56
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infinitydaniels : I'd LIKE to crash, but the reality is that I have to head out in an hour for family obligation stuff.06:59
danielsinfinity: tomorrow?07:00
infinityYeah, tomorrow's fine.07:01
infinityI may even have all this Xrender mess sorted by then.07:01
infinity(just did another upload)07:02
danielsok, sounds cool07:02
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | If you have unexpectedly lost editbugs privileges, talk to mdz/ogra/kiko | Colony CD 2 released | yes, X is broken. a fix has already been uploaded.
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by dnakata at Mon Jul 18 22:51:14 2005
=== #ubuntu-devel [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
=== warthylog [~warthylog@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | If you have unexpectedly lost editbugs privileges, talk to mdz/ogra/kiko | Colony CD 2 released | yes, X is broken. a fix has already been uploaded.
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by dnakata at Mon Jul 18 22:51:14 2005
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pittiRiddell: thanks for the qca-tls report; did you check for debian and upstream bugs? can you mention the status of those? as well as the security history?07:19
fabbionehey pitti07:20
pittiGood morning fabbione07:20
fabbionepitti: before you start the firefox mess, should we review a few things?07:22
fabbionepitti: perfect07:22
fabbionelet's start with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportRhCluster07:22
fabbionepoint 1) the entire suite is in main/universe07:23
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fabbionethe libdlm transition for clvm (universe, source lvm2) has been done right away07:23
fabbione4) there is a also a GUI now.07:24
fabbioneRegarding QA the upstream situation has been changing a lot07:24
fabbionethey did clean up their mess07:24
fabbionein terms of how they use CVS07:24
fabbioneand tons of bug fixes made it to the STABLE branch07:24
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pittiwhat's the package name again?07:24
fabbioneredhat-cluster-suite (source and meta)07:25
fabbionenow it's also possible to compile modules for custom kernels + we provide them by default07:25
fabbionepitti: as you can see from their bugzilla all the CRI bugs have been addresses07:26
pittilooks really good07:27
pittiGUI is sensible?07:27
fabbioneso even if you already approved it, i am going to ask for official inclusion in main and see the packages07:27
fabbionepitti: yup and it works very well07:27
fabbionepitti: all our packages have been tested by upstream07:27
fabbione<pjc> they worked beautifully07:28
fabbione<pjc> the meta-package was great. Fedora should have something like that07:28
fabbioneone of the upstream comments testing on ppc :)07:28
fabbione(oh and they fixed the config file permission problem rigth away ;))07:30
pittiI did these updates at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportRhCluster07:33
pitti... if it ever finishes, it's so slow...07:33
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pittihrmpf, $)(/)$ wlan card07:35
pittifabbione: <pitti> I did these updates at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportRhCluster07:35
pittifabbione: did you say anything after "<fabbione> one of the upstream comments testing on ppc :)"?07:35
fabbionepitti: what wireless?07:38
pittifabbione: sitting at my laptop in the kitchen now, gf is still asleep :-)07:39
fabbionepitti: if it's the ipw2x00 i will have a fix in the next upload07:39
pittifabbione: nevermind, that device always breaks after it gets hot, but it's the only one that is registered in my wlan here07:39
fabbionehehe ok07:40
pittifabbione: I have another one (same model) which works fine (just not here since it's not registered)07:40
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sivangmorning pitti , fabbione 07:45
pittiHi sivang 07:45
sivangpitti: where can I read about our cluster packaging and infrastructure ?07:45
Mithrandir /win 3107:46
sivang(the one I see you too are so hard working at :-) )07:46
fabbionesivang: you want to talk with me about that07:46
sivangfabbione: ah , ok , basically everything is borrowed from fedora / RH (I recall you told me they wrot the GUI control tool)07:47
fabbionesivang: RH..07:49
fabbionefedora is no upstream07:49
fabbioneyes.. they wrote a gui that is already in universe07:49
fabbionepitti: speaking of which.. we should move the GUI to main to07:50
fabbionepitti: it's written in python..07:50
pittifabbione: right, the packages are fine and I already approved the stuff07:50
fabbionepitti: ok thanks.07:50
fabbioneFYI: the GUI is called system-config-cluster07:50
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sivangfabbione:  system-config-cluster: Depends: redhat-cluster-suite but it is not going to be installed08:01
sivanghmm, seems something's wrong with apt-file pkg, looks like it should depend on curl, but it doesn't08:05
fabbionesivang: yes i know. i need to upload a new kernel or you need to rebuild the cluster modules08:06
sivangfabbione: ah well, it's no rush , I will try install it when you finish :-)08:08
fabbionesivang: it is finished, that's only the result of a trick Depends: / Provides: to ensure that at least a kernel with the cluster modules is installed...08:09
fabbioneand to complete the trick i need to upload a new kernel08:09
sivangfabbione: I'm glad to know it prevents you from just installing the supportive stuff when you don't have a comptabile kernel.08:10
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sivangfabbione: Does it use the mosix kernel for grid computing, or is a cluster something different? :)08:32
fabbionesivang: it's a HA cluster. mosix is high performance08:32
fabbionethey are 2 different implementation08:32
fabbionethe RH cluster aims for High Availability (HA)08:33
sivangfabbione: so basically, it replecates one node to the other, to be able to respond even if some of them break?08:33
Treenakssivang: basically, yes08:34
fabbionesivang: not really..08:34
Treenaksisn't the goal of HA basically "Little or no downtime and/or corruption"08:34
fabbioneHA does not replace.. it switches services across the nodes so that service foo is always available08:34
fabbioneTreenaks: yes, but it doesn't replicate the nodes08:35
fabbioneor replace them08:35
fabbionethe work is done at service level08:35
Treenaksfabbione: no, the nodes should do that themselves08:35
fabbioneTreenaks: ??????08:35
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fabbionethe HA cluster takes care of migrating services from a failed node to a working one08:36
Treenaksfabbione: well, what you said.. the different services shuold take care of replication, some other piece of magic takes care of the failover08:36
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fabbioneTreenaks: exactly.. replication is something different08:36
sivangfabbione: that's interesting, so we basically have autonomic nodes (as each one is a seperate box) which all run the same services, and there a kind of a "switchboard" to find open slots per services (on each machine) and delegates the request there?08:37
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fabbionesivang: no, that's a load balancer08:37
fabbionesivang: let say you need service foo (apache for example)08:37
fabbioneto be always up 100% of the time08:37
fabbionenode A and node B ( just to keep it simple )08:38
fabbionethe HA cluster will make a fake node C, masking A and B08:38
fabbione(sort of)08:38
fabbioneso if apache is running on node A and node A fails, the service will automatically be switched to B08:39
fabbionewithout you even noticing08:39
fabbionethis is a very SIMPLE example08:39
Treenakseven in the middle of a request?08:39
fabbionebut there are tons of consideration behind doing something like that08:39
fabbioneTreenaks: no, that's too apps specific08:39
fabbionea) you don't lose the service08:40
fabbioneb) a shared cluster FS will not lose consistency08:40
fabbioneso even if effectly you lose one transaction in the middle of the switch..08:40
fabbioneyou don't lose the service08:41
sivangfabbione: and data is consistent due to (b)08:41
fabbionesivang: exactly08:41
sivangwow, cool08:41
fabbionebut you need a shared storage device between the 2 node08:41
fabbioneusing local disk is pointless in a cluster :)08:42
\shemc is overload but a netapp is nice for those things08:43
\shgood morning btw08:43
sivangyou can just as well build a custom shared storage with linux, there a howto somewhere (can't recall where)08:46
sivangpitti: do you recall by heart the env vars that dch and other pkging tools use? i.e. for maintainer name and email, etc08:48
pittisivang: DEBEMAIL="Sivan Green <sivan@green>"08:48
fabbionesivang: well in a cluster enviroment you try to use good hw ...08:48
fabbionesivang: like a redundant shared device08:48
fabbioneand stuff like that08:49
fabbionefencing devices... remote controlled power swiches08:49
sivangfabbione: hmm, makes sense. No real benefit comes from a shared storage with 50% failing disks :-)08:50
sivangpitti: thx 08:50
\shsivang: sometimes an expensive emc rack or some netapp heads with a couple of diskshelfs better then any selfmade solution08:51
carlospcHello everybody, have you read in ubuntu-devel list the thread "GNOME panel and sudo"? I would like to know if this funcionality will be implemented09:00
Burgundaviacarlospc, it is a google bounty and thus is quite likely09:01
carlospcMaybe i could help, does anyone knows if it's a goal? if so, how it's called?09:01
sivangpitti: is it ok to create patches with diff (talking about the configure patches) manually, and then concantate them into the one file debian/patch together with the code?09:01
carlospcOuh, thanks Burgundavia09:01
pittisivang: why not use something sensible like dbs-edit-patch or cdbs-edit-patch?09:01
Burgundaviacarlospc, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GnomePanelEnhancements09:02
BurgundaviaGoogle SoC project. Assigned to Emmanuel Cornet ([MAILTO]  manu.cornet@gmail.com). See Spec for further details.09:02
carlospcThanks in advance09:02
sivangpitti: hmm, since I want to avoid cdbs's diff against all file in the source dir, to avoid autofu trails from the other files created by it09:03
pittisivang: just don't use autoreconf, use automake/autoconf manually09:03
sivangpitti: inside the cdbs-edit-patch "chroot" ?09:05
pittisivang: it's not a chroot, but yes09:05
sivangpitti: how would you define it? :-)09:05
pittisivang: it's pushd, nothing more09:05
davydso is muine known to die on amd64?09:07
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Treenaksmono is known weird09:07
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sivangTreenaks: muine uses mono?09:17
GNULinuxersivang: yes09:18
sivangGNULinuxer: as in to do music playing and other cpu bound stuff?09:19
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davydmusic playing is done via Gstreamer09:25
davydso all of that is really in C09:25
Treenaksbut don't tell the mono guys09:26
sivangwhy did I had a feeling? ;-)09:26
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trs80so, does anyone have any ideas why my dual 3.4ghz xeon with 1gb of ram is spending 10-60% of its time in iowait?09:56
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trs80(warty, 2.6.10, two 160gb seagate 7200.7s in raid 1, lvm on top of that, hp proliant dl360 g4 which has a intel 6300ESB sata controller using ata_piix)09:58
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{Seb}hi guys10:03
{Seb}how is breezy looking - broken wise?10:03
{Seb}is X working again?10:03
Burgundaviasort of10:03
davydoh boy10:03
{Seb}sort of?10:03
fabbioneKamion: ping?10:04
Burgundaviadepends on box and archictecture10:04
davydamd64 is broken10:04
{Seb}they both have ATI cards and they are both Intel x8610:04
davydI had to build about 5 packages by hand10:04
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fabbione{Seb}: these are #ubuntu questions.. you have been told millions of time by now10:05
fabbionetrs80: stop running bonnie?10:05
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davydnice, rhythmbox has decided that non of my music is actually music10:06
davydand muine doesn't start10:06
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trs80fabbione: nope not running bonnie. breaking the raid 1 doesn't make a difference either10:07
pittidavyd: but you do have gstreamer plugins installed? (or, rather, didn't uninstall at least the ogg vorbis one)10:07
Burgundaviaguys, this discussion belongs on #ubuntu10:07
fabbionetrs80: i/o wait is highly dependend on what your box is doing.. it might as well be very normal10:07
davydpitti: good call10:08
pittidavyd: gstreamer0.8-mad already helps a lot10:08
trs80fabbione: it's just serving mail, dns, mailman etc. actual cpu usage is 1% or so10:09
davydpitti: yeah10:09
=== davyd wonders if he should --get-selections off his old machine for this one
fabbionetrs80: mail* is an I/O bottleneck...10:09
fabbionetrs80: CPU usage != i/o wait10:10
fabbioneor better.. that becomes true if there is no DMA10:10
trs80yeah, but a dual p3 733 was handling the same load faster10:10
trs80the disks are sata10:10
fabbionesata "has" DMA10:11
fabbioneso that's not the problem10:11
fabbionetrs80: i would monitor /proc/interrupts and see if there is a device that is sucking IRQ10:12
fabbioneand stalling I/O10:12
fabbioneif that's the case try to boot with irqpoll10:12
fabbioneboot option i mean10:12
trs801000 timer int/s10:14
davydthat's sane10:14
davydHZ on linux 2.6 is 100010:14
davyd(on i386)10:14
trs80200-400 libata int/s10:15
fabbionetrs80: you need to check it for a long time...10:15
fabbionenot just in a 10 minutes phase10:15
fabbionethere might be processes that reises the I/O load10:15
fabbioneand not always running10:15
trs80what's LOC in interrupts?10:15
=== trs80 leaves vmstat running
trs80fabbione: I have things like 3 kjournald sitting in the D state10:20
trs80yeah, things are just sitting there, waiting for IO, not actually doing anything10:21
trs80the disks are barely pushing a few MB/s10:22
fabbionewhat FS?10:25
fabbionedid you say warty + 2.6.10 ????10:26
trs80whatever 5.04 is, I always get the names mixed up10:26
fabbionetrs80: if you the option i would try to boot with irqpoll10:27
fabbionenot sure it will make any difference10:27
fabbionebut it's defenitily worth a try10:27
=== trs80 ponders 2.6.12
fabbione2.6.10 introduced a big IRQ routing change10:27
fabbioneand not all drivers managed to be converted on time10:27
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pittiHey seb12810:29
seb128hi pitti 10:29
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Nermalfabbione: any details ?10:33
Nermaljust normal IRQ routing, or ACPI IRQ routing ?10:33
fabbioneNermal: normal IRQ10:36
mdzpitti: how is the bluetooth work going with Paolo?10:40
pittimdz: that's mainly done with chmj, but last week Paolo just reported back, he just started coding10:41
pittimdz: (he didn't have time before)10:41
pittiinfinity: ping10:42
chmjmdz: I'm waiting to hear from him10:43
mdzchmj: how long have you been waiting?10:43
JaneWmdz: the Google guys on te whole seem fairly slow on the uptake (some are better than others though)10:43
JaneWmdz: one is totally MIA10:44
chmjmdz: since last week 10:44
ogradavyd, yes, it's a compile time option i have it enabled on my local build, will be in the next upload as soon as i'm ready with the new  lockscreen (needs code cleanup)10:44
JaneWmdz: a few look like shining stars :))10:44
ogramorning all10:44
davydnew lockscreen?10:44
ogra<davyd> why is Xscreensaver in Fedora Xinerama aware, but Xscreensaver in Ubuntu not?10:45
JaneWmorning ogra :)10:45
trs80my xscreensaver at home from debian testing is xinerama aware ...10:45
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davydogra: yeah, I remember asking about that10:45
davydogra: I was asking what kind of new lock screen?10:45
davydsimilar to before10:45
davydor that Xembed crack?10:46
ogratrs80, other X10:46
ogradavyd, ah10:46
trs80ogra: xf86 vs xorg?10:46
ogradavyd, no Xembed, a simple hack like hoary had, but a bit cooler10:46
ogratrs80, yes10:46
davydogra: ok10:46
=== trs80 nods
davydthat Xembed solution is kinda clever10:46
davydhe was obviously thinking a little more outside the ballpark then Mesh and I were10:47
ograbut what i see here with gnome-screensaver is far from being ready....10:47
ogra(dunno if its a amd64 thing)10:48
=== davyd laughs
davydso much stuff appears to be10:48
davydogra: are you running amd64?10:48
KamionRiddell: the torrent stuff is there on the cdimage backend machine, so I guess it's something wrong with torrent.ubuntu.com; you'll have to take that up with elmo10:48
ogradavyd, yes... 10:49
Kamionfabbione: pong10:49
ogradavyd, on a sh*tty acer laptop10:49
davydogra: do you know anything about chrooting a 32-bit set of libraries?10:49
davydand specificially, why gdb doesn't seem to work10:49
ograthere are some docs on alioth afaik10:49
davydabout gdb being broken?10:50
ogranope about chroots :)10:50
ograon amd6410:50
davydok, well I have a chroot10:50
davydusing debootstrap and dchroot10:50
davydand I've mount-binded things into it10:50
davydthat all seemed fairly easy10:51
davydstuff seems to generally work... but gdb doesn't10:51
ogradavyd, Mithrandir is your man for amd64 specialitys... the only chroot i use is my pbuilder ...10:51
davydogra: ok, thanks10:51
davydI'll assume you haven't seen anything like it10:51
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Riddellelmo: can you confirm if the PowerPC Kubuntu DVD is seeded or no?10:54
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fabbioneKamion: yo..11:01
fabbioneKamion: do you know of any linux-image-2.6-di that already use kernel-wedge 2?11:02
fabbioneKamion: i am not sure i understand right how the .lnk has been changed...11:02
fabbioneafaics the file has been renamed and the contents changed to #include <> or #include ""11:02
fabbionemdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportRhCluster <- review from this morning. if we can seed it to go to main, we can consider ClusterFileSystem deployed :)11:03
Kamionfabbione: linux-kernel-di-i386-2.6 in Debian has been changed11:04
mdzfabbione: did you add it to maininclusionqueue?11:04
fabbioneKamion: thanks11:04
Kamionfabbione: the changelog and the README file explain it, though11:04
fabbionemdz: not personally.. probably pitti did?11:04
pittifabbione: yes11:05
fabbioneKamion: yes, the README explain the current format, not how to migrate.. i just wanted to be 100% sure with a double check11:05
mdzfabbione: is it seeded yet?11:05
fabbionemdz: not that i know off... i usually don't touch the seeds at all11:06
mdzok, go ahead and seed it, and Kamion or I will promote it with the next batch11:06
fabbionemdz: ok.. what seed is preferred? supported?11:06
ogramdz, oh, while youre at seeds, which stuff (if any) has to move to ubuntu main/supported for edubuntu ? 11:11
ogramdz, any policy for that ?11:12
mdzogra: isn't that a question that I would ask you? ;-)11:12
mdzanything new that you added to the edubuntu seeds needs main inclusion reporst11:12
ogramdz, nope, i know the software, but you know the policy ?11:12
ograso everything thats not in main or supported yet ?11:13
=== fabbione scratches his head
mdzogra: pitti created a wiki page with instructions11:14
pittiogra: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue, instructions are linked from that11:14
fabbionemdz: did the seed archive change location recently?11:14
ogramdz, i know, i already wrote reports ...11:14
mdzogra: edubuntu will be treated just the same as Ubuntu; anything that you add which is not obviously supportable needs a review11:14
mdzfabbione: no11:15
JaneWmjg59: ping11:15
ogramdz, ok, yay for bureocracy then.. that'll be a lot11:15
Burgundaviaogra, I might be able to help you11:15
mdzogra: main implies an 18-month support commitment; these basic sanity checks are essential for that11:15
ograBurgundavia, look at the seeds http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/11:16
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ogramdz, yes, i know, i just wasnt sure about the difference between edu and ubuntu11:16
Burgundaviaogra, basically the seeds have everything that is needed? now i need to figure out what is not in main and create reports for it?11:16
ograand there are many odditys on the list, pitti will scream :)11:17
BurgundaviaI will do some work tomorrow11:17
fabbionemdz: did you ever get to test the kernel with the tpm fixup?11:17
pefwhen is the review day ?11:17
fabbionemdz: the same fix made it in stable release.. so it should work11:18
ograBurgundavia, desktop and server are the interesting bits, the rest is similar to ubuntu11:19
BurgundaviaI have seen the wiki11:19
=== trygvebw [~trygve@216-189-22.5002.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzfabbione: no, I haven't11:20
fabbionemdz: ok.. it's more important you had fun :)11:20
JaneW***NAG ALERT***11:22
=== ogra hides
JaneWATTENTION all BreezyGoal Leads. Please update your BreezyGoals if you have not done so in the last week.11:23
mdzdaniels: which version of X is referred to in the topic?11:23
ogramdz, any ?11:23
mdzogra: hmm?11:23
JaneWogra: :)11:23
ograsince -36 ?11:23
JaneWogra: I did update 'edubuntu' for you ;)11:24
ograJaneW, thanks :)11:24
mdzogra: current is -4211:24
mdzbut there is still a problem11:25
mdzSetting up xlibs (6.8.2-42) ...11:25
mdzrmdir: `/etc/X11/xkb/rules': Directory not empty11:25
mdzthus my question11:25
ograand since -36 i've seen no working version 11:25
JaneWmdz: little nag... LiveCDPrompts - what's happening there?11:25
mdzJaneW: the resolution was that the ideal experience could be achieved by allowing the keyboard layout to be configured from the gdm login screen11:26
mdzhowever that is not something that I will be able to spend time on (it'd be a good bounty)11:26
mdzwe should talk with the person (vincent untz?) who has done other gdm work11:26
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JaneWok, so deferred for Breezy? or on the bounty page in the hopes that someone will make it happen in time?11:27
JaneWmdz: ok, shall I contact him?11:27
ograJaneW, ask vuntz ?11:27
Burgundaviaogra, shall I create a wiki page for all the various maininclusion pages?11:27
ograBurgundavia, that'd be very nice :)11:27
mdzJaneW: yes; it is a bit late in the cycle to start on it, but it is worth a try11:27
ogramdz, one last edubuntu question ... 11:28
seb128asking what to vuntz ?11:28
ogramdz, i'll build the CD that it installs a ltsp classroom by default, but want a option to install a standalone workstation too...11:28
mdzseb128: mdz JaneW: the resolution was that the ideal experience could be achieved by allowing the keyboard layout to be configured from the gdm login screen11:28
seb128mdz: I've read that, but if you want him to work on gdm he rejected the bounty (jdub asked him at GUADEC) because he's too busy with other stuff atm11:29
ogramdz, since ltsp will be the default, i need a boot/installer option.... or a question in the installer... the latter will generate work for Kamion but is far more userfriendly...11:30
mdzseb128: is there someone else we can ask?11:30
mdzogra: it's already done; Kamion has the details11:30
Burgundaviaogra, a start --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion11:30
seb128mdz: not that I know of11:30
ogramdz, youre to fast :)11:30
mdzuntested as far as I know11:30
seb128mdz: maybe jdub as some idea on the topic, but apparently he didn't find anybody for the running gdm bounty ...11:31
jdubmdz, seb128: i've been polling people about it, not having much success11:31
seb128hey jdub :)11:31
mdzpitti: I forgot to give you your business cards at debconf11:33
=== tim1_ [~Tim@dsl-084-058-039-232.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
JaneWseb128,mdz: I just went thoguh my e-mails I already asked jdub... nothing came of it (back then anyway)11:33
ograjdub, thats the gdm/screensaver integration ? 11:33
seb128do we have a freeze for universe now or can we get new crack?11:33
ograseb128, UVF ... but with approval you can get new stuff in11:34
mdzJaneW: ok, then I guess it's deferred+bounty11:34
seb128ogra: read GdmRoadmap spec11:34
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seb128ogra: for universe too?11:34
ograseb128, yep11:34
pittimdz: oh, I still have plenty11:34
mdzseb128: yes, but it's sort of a slushy freeze11:34
seb128anjuta2 has been uploaded to Debian11:34
ograseb128, but we'll handle it quite loosely11:34
ograseb128, yay11:34
pittimdz: so at the oct/nov conference will be enough, I guess11:34
ograseb128, move it over then....11:35
mdzpitti: did you get a batch of defective cards?11:35
seb128mdz: any policy for new packages like anjuta2? That's a cool GNOME IDE expected by some users for some time but nobody stepped to package it before11:35
mdzseb128: I have no problem with it11:35
pittimdz: yes, about 1/411:35
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jdubogra: the prettifying stuff11:36
seb128mdz: cool, I'll get it so11:36
ograjdub, ah ok....11:36
seb128ogra: read GdmRoadmap11:36
jdubogra: turn seb off /ignore :)11:36
Burgundaviaogra, all the links are there now11:36
Amaranthseb128: When I get smeg 0.8 ready and packaged should I just give it to you?11:37
seb128Amaranth: sure, thanks11:37
fabbioneKamion, mdz: it's seeded..11:37
seb128mdz: are you ok with making smeg the default menu editor?11:37
fabbioneor at least it should be11:37
ograBurgundavia, you can add mediawiki to the serverstuff too... its not seeded yet..11:37
Amaranthseb128: Ok, if any bugs come up are you ok with just taking an 0.8.x package to fix them?11:37
JaneWdoko: ping11:37
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JaneWfabbione: why so quiet on the new kernel name front? 11:38
seb128Amaranth: depending of the changes, if that's a rewrital of half of the code, nop 11:38
dokoJaneW: pong11:38
fabbioneJaneW: because i am working on quite a big piece of cleanup11:38
fabbioneJaneW: and it's taking time :(11:38
Amaranthseb128: haha, the rewrite is happening for 0.8, thats why i asked11:38
JaneWdoko: hi, do you have an update on OpenOfficeLocalisation?11:39
fabbioneJaneW: unfortunatly i am cleaning what happens at the end of a kernel build.. and to test it properly it needs to be done from scratch everytime = TONS OF TIME11:39
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JaneWfabbione: ok fair enough (just checking)11:39
JaneWfabbioneL at one stage I was at risk of running out of names...11:39
dokoJaneW: yep, last time I tried to edit the wiki, firefox crashed ... let me upgrade to the new one and try again11:39
JaneWfabbione: sounds like loads of fun ...11:40
pittifabbione: did you have any success with the "open /dev/dsp multiple times" hack?11:40
fabbioneJaneW: don't worry :) you know i don't just sit here and IRC :P11:40
JaneWdoko: or just give me the update, I can post it for you...11:40
trs81fabbione: nope, irqpoll didn't do anything, still lots of procs in the D state causing 30% iowait11:40
fabbionepitti: nope :(11:40
JaneWfabbione: you don't!? ;)11:40
fabbioneJaneW: that's only as sport11:40
seb128JaneW: you have send this mail 3 time for wiki update now :p11:40
JaneWseb128: i KNOW11:40
ograseb128, cant gdm support animated gif out of the box ? this one should be fairly easy if you ask in #ubuntu-artwork for a good animation :)11:41
seb128STOP IT NOW11:41
mdzseb128: I don't know about the menu editors; what is the other option?11:41
pittifabbione: ok, then we ditch that11:41
JaneWseb128: not to mention the public and private IRC nags and induvidual e-mails... you;d think people were reluctant... ;)11:41
mdzseb128: the inquiries will continue until the updates happen ;-)11:41
mdzresistance is useless11:41
seb128mdz: you have not catch-up on ubuntu-devel list or just skip my mails ? :p11:41
mdzI have hundreds and hundreds of unread ubuntu-devel messages11:41
seb128k, I've mailed the list about that next week11:42
seb128right click on the menu, you have an edit11:42
fabbionemdz: welcome back to work :P11:42
seb128that's the trivial GNOME stuff11:42
seb128it only hide/show entry11:42
seb128as said with the mail, user expect to be able at least to put new entries11:42
mdzfabbione: I have been busy fostering improved community relations11:42
seb128so I propose to change this one by smeg11:42
fabbionemdz: eheh11:42
JaneWseb128: I have seen your e-mails... but you do still need to update your BreezyGoal to keep the updates central - my ubuntu-devel inbox is sitting at close to 800 now...11:42
mdzseb128: I have no objection; if you're unsure, maybe ask ubuntu-devel for opinions11:43
dokoJaneW: OO.o2 works out much nicer with adding new translations. xhosa was updated, is missing some outdated message strings. integration with rosetta is started. building language packs without building binaries needs input from our ftp master11:43
ograseb128, smeg should automatically submit bugreports with the .desktop file for missing ones if one ges created ;)11:43
mdzif no one else has strong feelings about it, it's your call11:43
\shhmmm...Jane is whipping her devs very badly today ,-)11:43
seb128which is written by Amaranth, used by many users already (that's the editor pointed to hoary users asking for one) and using pygtk/pyxdg11:43
JaneW\sh: they are making me do it... they obviously love being nagged... ;)11:44
seb128mdz: I've asked ubuntu-devel for opinion, people agree ... but since I got mainly reply from users and not from other distro guys11:44
AmaranthI'm sorry, Amaranth is currently unavailable due to stupid vlc build problems. Please try again in 12 years.11:44
seb128JaneW: I've updated my wiki goals yesterday !11:44
ograAmaranth, just wait until wx 2.6 is there11:44
JaneWgot this yesterday, why did God invent the female orgasm?11:44
Amaranthogra: it's not that11:44
\shJaneW: yeah..I know this feeling ...;)11:45
ogra\sh, female orgasm ?11:45
Amaranthogra: it's theora_pic, some X stuff, etc11:45
ogra\sh, YOU ?11:45
JaneWso that woman can moan even when they are happy ;)11:45
\shogra: nonono11:45
=== davyd handles the drumkit
\shogra: it didn't refere to this female ...what isit?11:45
ogra\sh, lol11:45
JaneWseb128: many thanks - in which case messages are not directed at you :))11:45
seb128you're welcome :p11:46
JaneWdavyd: lol11:46
Burgundaviaogra, look now11:46
\shactually I need a love^Wlife again11:46
mdzseb128: I'd say go ahead with it, then11:46
ograBurgundavia, WOAH11:46
seb128mdz: thanks11:46
Burgundaviaogra, now comes the hard part, all the research11:46
ograBurgundavia, many many thanks :)11:46
seb128Amaranth: go to code on smeg, 0 bug must remain11:46
JaneWer is Xen and XenIntegration the same thing? (I thought not)11:47
Amaranthok, someone else can sync vlc from sid and make it build11:47
Amaranthhave fun!11:47
ograBurgundavia, its just goint throug 3 security searchengines, mostly you wont find anything... but there are some where pitti will get bad headaches :)11:47
JaneWMithrandir: ping11:47
seb128"Sorry, a system error occurred "11:48
=== seb128 kicks malone
ograseb128, gtk bug in malone ?11:48
seb128no, malone bug 11:48
AmaranthJaneW: what are you "re porting" exactly? :)11:48
seb128it refuses to edit a bug11:48
ograpitti, look at the big wave of ugly packages that will approach you soon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion11:49
ograseb128, logged in ?11:49
seb128ogra: no no, I'm stupid11:49
seb128ogra: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1468, click on "Ubuntu mail-notification"11:49
JaneWAmaranth: huh?11:50
pittiogra: already saw them, I get autonotified on wiki changes11:50
ograseb128, eek11:50
=== fabbione takes away the caps lock from JaneW
AmaranthJaneW: Oh, I'm just making fun of a typo. :D11:50
ograpitti, ah...11:50
JaneWfabbione: I never use caps lock :P11:51
\shAmaranth: oh man, be careful...this girl is hitting hard ,-)11:51
fabbioneJaneW: ehehe11:51
seb128pitti: <jdub>  seb128: you just synced firefox, <jdub>  seb128: but... you touched it... now you own it!11:51
seb128pitti: happy? :p11:51
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davydyeah, don't you feel silly when you're typing in caps11:51
pittiseb128: works for me11:51
JaneWAmarthan: typos however are very frequent... I fancy myself as being able to type far faster than I actually can... hence the errors . I'm working on it...11:51
Amaranthseb128: hehe, 1.0.6 will probably be out tomorrow11:51
seb128pitti: NO WAY11:52
davydand then you realised that you could have used the capslock?11:52
=== pitti hands seb128 a cute fox mascot
Burgundaviapitti, can i just link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion#preview to MainInclusionQueue11:52
AmaranthJaneW: Tab completion works wonders. :)11:52
=== Amaranth hides now
JaneWAmaranth: yes, when I remember to use it ;)11:52
pittiBurgundavia: why didn't you put it on the main page in the first place? well, but linking is okay for me11:52
Burgundaviapitti, the list is huge and may be worked on by specific people11:53
seb128Amaranth: I've a smeg bug for you .... why does it list all the app submenus as <Menuname>... ?11:53
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seb128Amaranth: maybe that's made by gnome-menus11:54
Burgundaviaogra, I am off to bed. I will work on some tomorrow11:54
AmaranthI don't know what you mean.11:54
seb128Amaranth: anyway an editor put "Edutainment" at the bottom of the menu instead of its normal position11:54
ograBurgundavia, thanks for tha help :)11:54
Burgundaviaogra, np11:54
Amaranthyou're messing with layout stuff11:55
seb128an editor made11:55
Amaranthbut it didn't include <Menuname>Edutainment</Menuname>11:55
seb128                <Menuname>Multimedia</Menuname>11:55
seb128                <Menuname>Edutainment</Menuname>11:55
seb128                <Merge type="menus"/>11:55
ograyou can shuffle positions ? 11:56
AmaranthWhy did you put it on the bottom?11:56
Amaranthogra: Yep. :D11:56
seb128Amaranth: I didn't!11:56
AmaranthAnd put in separators, and put entries on the main menu...11:56
seb128Amaranth: if that's not smeg that's gmenu-simple-editor11:56
Amaranthgmenu-simple-editor doesn't support that11:56
seb128yeah, that's why I pinged you11:56
=== fabbione -> food
Amaranthit looks like you did a DnD reorder11:56
Amaranthotherwise i have no idea11:57
seb128that's "ducation" in french11:57
seb128and it seems to not like the special char11:57
Amaranthi have a feeling it's a pyxdg bug11:57
seb128that's fine with a C locale11:58
Amaranthif you don't have <Layout> defined the menus are supposed to be sorted alphabetically11:58
seb128Amaranth: anyway, where do you want bugs... should I create a bugzilla.ubuntu.com smeg entry and assign bugs for it to you? :)11:58
Amaranthi'm guessing it's sorting ducation last and then do you something to make pyxdg create a <Layout> it gets stuck there11:58
Amaranthnot my bug11:58
Amaranthfile a bug on the fd.o bugzilla against pyxdg11:59
seb128Amaranth: I've moved ~/.config/applications.menu away, I run smeg and ducation is at the bottom11:59
Amaranthalthough the dev won't be back for another 3 or so weeks11:59
seb128Amaranth: you are no upstream for pyxdg too? :)11:59
seb128ups, I thought11:59
Amaranthyou're the one who told me to use pyxdg :P11:59
seb128you said "we are going to get a new version", etc11:59
Amaranthyeah, we work together12:00
Amaranthusually a pyxdg release comes out the same time a smeg release does12:00
seb128yeah, but some weeks after you were using "we" for pyxdg, so I assume you became an upstream :p12:00
Amaranthi can sort of figure out what's going on in there, mostly i just helped write xdg.MenuEditor12:00
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Amaranthi'll see if i can't figure this out12:00
seb128/usr/share/doc/python-xdg/examples/test-menu.py list ducation at the bottom12:01
Amaranthyeah, pyxdg bug12:01
JaneWfabbione: if you have a minute... please look at BreezyGoal Xen...12:03
JaneWfabbione, do you agree with the comment? And even if you do there's an issue that Ed is still MIA...12:03
JaneWpitti: thanks for the updates :))12:05
Amaranthseb128: shit, it's a python bug :/12:05
seb128Amaranth: oh?12:05
pittiJaneW: nothing really exciting, I'm afraid :-/12:05
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Amaranthseb128: cmp('ducation', 'System Tools') returns 112:05
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TreenaksAmaranth: in your locale12:06
TreenaksAmaranth: sort order is locale-dependent12:06
Amaranthoh yeah12:06
Amaranthso i can't even work on this, don't feel like reading french :)12:06
ograAmaranth, there will be more languages .... 12:06
ograAmaranth, ubuntu supports about 9012:06
Amaranthi know12:07
Amaranthi'm saying i can't work on this bug12:07
Amaranthwait, how do you run just one app with a certain locale?12:07
seb128Amaranth: LC_ALL=C ./app 12:08
Amaranthok, what do i put to get french?12:09
seb128dpkg-reconfigure locales12:09
seb128pick fr_FR.UTF-812:09
seb128and LC_ALL=fr_FR.UTF-812:09
pittiAmaranth: LANG=C foobar12:09
seb128LANGUAGE=C for graphical apps12:10
seb128GNOME seems to pick this one before LANG12:10
Amaranthcmp('ducation', 'System Tools') returns 1 with french too12:11
Amaranthpython bug?12:11
pittimdz: I recently asked on the list about interested persons about printing, but silence so far12:12
mdzpitti: mark suggested that we contact cups upstream12:12
pittimdz: I can probably manage the derooting of hplip until feature freeze, but I can't test it12:13
pittimdz: about our PrintingRoadmap spec proposals?12:13
pittimdz: that would rather be gnome-cups-manager upstream for the hotplugging side12:13
pittimdz: or eggcups, depending on how well seb128's experiments with eggcups go12:14
JaneWpitti: did you see the e-mail I sent...?12:14
pittiJaneW: yes, I saw12:14
pitticurrently I don't even have a printer12:15
pittiit went away with the moving of my flatmate12:15
seb128pitti: eggcups will probably not replace gnome-cups-manager, it nice but has not the same feature (ie: you can't set up a smb or lp printer with it)12:16
JaneWpitti: do you think this guy can do it? I asked him to send some more details, but he is worried that the spec is not very clear...12:16
pittiJaneW: which spec/guy are you talking about?12:17
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JaneWpitti: the printing roadmap guy...12:19
pittiJaneW: oh, I thought you meant your reply to my "Seeking help with/takeover of PrintingRoadmap" mail to u-devel12:20
pittiJaneW: I don't see any other email wrt printing from you12:21
Amaranthwhy can't we all just speak english? :)12:21
JaneWpitti: mdz just repsonded to us both... did you not received them? (I may be using the wrong address for you...?)12:22
pittiJaneW: I just checked my ~/.procmail.log12:22
fabbioneJaneW: what comment in Xen specifically?12:23
pittiJaneW: ah, that one. I didn't download that yet, sorry12:23
Amaranthseb128: This is not going to work, sorry.12:23
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JaneWfabbione: well mithrandir said your student is handling Xen... but he is actually doing Xen Integration - PLUS he is MIA...12:24
seb128Amaranth: k, maybe I'll reconsider the menu editor choice, thanks12:24
Amaranthseb128: It's a python bug. Unless I can find a workaround nothing is going to do any better.12:24
seb128Amaranth: gmenu-simpler-editor works fine12:25
fabbioneJaneW: Mithrandir was the original assigned to Xen, than the student come up... now the student is MIA...12:25
mdzok, time to go catch the final plane12:25
Amaranthseb128: Yeah, their sorting is done in C.12:25
fabbioneJaneW: probably Mith can take Xen back...12:25
fabbionemdz: have fun12:25
seb128Amaranth: do the same ...12:25
=== Amaranth doesn't know C
fabbioneJaneW: but at 2/3 weeks from feature freeze i seriously doubt they can manage to do it12:26
fabbioneJaneW: i will talk with Mith and see..12:26
fabbionebut the option to make that happen seriously clashes with my planned vacation12:27
pittiJaneW: replied12:28
JaneWfabbione: :(12:28
Amaranthcollation tables, yay12:30
=== {Seb} [~{Seb}@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
{Seb}fabbione: please don't get angry with me this time but...12:34
{Seb}what does  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1 mean?12:34
pitti{Seb}: which package?12:34
pitti{Seb}: it generally means that the maintainer screwed up :-)12:34
pitti{Seb}: known bug; sudo vi /var/lib/dpkg/info/xlibs.postinst12:35
pittiright before the "test ... && ..." lines, prepend a "set +e"12:35
pittiand right after, put "exit 0"12:35
{Seb}prepend? you mean add?12:35
pittithen sudo dpkg --configure -a12:35
fabbione{Seb}: it's not question of being angry. these are #ubuntu questions and you are offtopic12:35
pitti{Seb}: prepend = add in front of12:36
{Seb}pitti: you are my hero!12:38
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{Seb}pitti: sorry to ask but it now gives me errors like rmdir: /etc/x11/xkb/types: Directory not empty12:40
{Seb}pitti: should i remove the dirs12:40
{Seb}pitti: i mean the /etc/x11/xkb dir12:41
pitti{Seb}: please ask daniels in #ubuntu12:41
pitti{Seb}: I'm not sure, but you shouldn't remove them I guess12:41
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comadrejaI'm interested in helping with the laptop stuff also... who should I talk to ?12:47
Nafallocomadreja: mjg59 :-)12:48
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truluxanyone hre using prelink in Breezy who can feel free to send me the /var/log/prelink.log?12:55
pittitrulux: wanna crack his machine? :-)12:56
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pittitrulux: please be aware that I recently patched prelink to not spit out addresses in the logs12:56
truluxpitti: OK, great then12:56
truluxno need12:56
Amaranthseb128: Fixed. :D12:56
truluxpitti: no 0-day for prelink so far12:57
seb128Amaranth: ROCK01:01
seb128Amaranth: how did you do?01:02
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Amaranthseb128: replaced cmp() with my own hackjob that creates a list and calls sort()01:02
AmaranthYou'll have to include it as a patch until the pyxdg dev gets back01:02
Amaranthlet me pull from cvs and make a diff01:03
seb128np, thanks01:03
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Amaranthseb128: http://dev.realistanew.com/locale_sort.patch01:07
Amaranthoh, i don't even need all that, hang on01:08
Amaranthseb128: http://dev.realistanew.com/locale_sort2.patch01:09
Amaranthmuch better patch01:09
Amaranthit's weird, that didn't work in the interpreter, works in real code though01:10
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JanC<infinity> Gnobody : I don't recall anyone complaining about the 640x480x16 Win32 boot screens ovre the years.01:16
JanCThat's because they are/were 320x400x256   :-P01:17
seb128Amaranth: cool01:17
j^but so far nobody complained about the gray apple01:19
TreenaksJanC: no, they're not..01:21
TreenaksJanC: the Win95/8 one was, Win2k and XP have 256-color 640x400 (or 480?) screens01:21
Amaranthyeah, that's what we should get01:21
Amaranthlike apple has01:21
Amaranthjust a simple logo and a little throbber01:22
JanCwell, anyway, they weren't 16-color01:22
Amaranththat doesn't represent anything01:22
TreenaksAmaranth: yes, but with semi-naked people01:22
TreenaksJanC: that was win31 ;) 16-color 640x480 "starting up" screen01:22
JanConly semi- ?   ;-)01:22
Amaranth102F saturday and sunday01:22
Amaranth100F friday01:22
TreenaksAmaranth: Farad?01:22
=== davyd coughs
davydSI units01:23
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JanCdavyd : you mean temperature in Kelvin ?  ;)01:23
davydsure, why not01:23
TreenaksJanC: what does he mean by 100 Farad?01:23
TreenaksJanC: ;)01:23
TreenaksJanC: I mean.. that's a lot01:24
ograTreenaks, capacity, what else ?01:24
davydthat's a lot of charge01:24
Treenaksogra: lots of it01:24
AmaranthIt's going to be 39C01:24
JanCtaht would be 39 C / 100 F I think   :)01:24
Treenaks312K, ah :)01:24
ograah 312K, ok... finally a sane unit01:25
AmaranthJanC: 102 degrees Fahrenheit = 38.8888889 degrees Celsius01:25
Amaranth100 is 3801:25
TreenaksAmaranth: i.e. 01:25
JanCwell, here it's 18-20 C today...01:25
Treenaks"too hot"01:25
AmaranthTreenaks: yes, "too hot"01:25
Amaranth"What's the temperature today? Too hot."01:26
Amaranth33C here today01:26
Amaranthgood thing i have air01:27
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NermalAmaranth: ouch01:30
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Amaranthseb128: I thought you should know I do know of one issue with PyXDG that is kinda major. It totally bombs on non-UTF8 things. Shouldn't be a problem in Ubuntu though.01:44
seb128Amaranth: k, thanks01:45
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Amaranthseb128: If you can figure out a way to actually make this error happen (non-UTF8 filename) it'll help me fix it.01:45
pittiD'oh, who kicked my computer while I was at luch?01:45
=== Treenaks whistles
seb128Amaranth: what error should it give exactly?01:46
Amaranth  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/xdg/Menu.py", line 1025, in getMenuEntries01:47
Amaranth    if menuentry.DesktopFileID not in ids:01:47
AmaranthUnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position 25-27: invalid data01:47
Amaranththis is easily hidable but the lanius would rather leave it failing until someone comes forward with enough data to solve it for real01:47
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davydare the amd64 buildds back up?01:52
Nafallodavyd: yes :-)01:52
Amaranthif they are amd64 users are X-less now too01:52
davydAmaranth: mmm, -42 is still dodgy?01:52
NafalloAmaranth: I knew X is bad and didn't update ;-)01:53
davydthey were X-less before01:53
davydbecause the data packages were still getting installed01:53
seb128Amaranth: easy to get01:53
seb128Amaranth: generate a non UTF-8 locale01:53
seb128ie: de_DE01:54
seb128start LC_ALL=de_DE xterm01:54
seb128cd /usr/share/applications01:54
seb128cp gedit.desktop gedit.desktop01:54
davydthere looks like nothing in the update that I really want/need01:54
seb128    if menuentry.DesktopFileID not in ids:01:54
seb128UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc9 in position 6: ordinal not in range(128)01:54
seb128I've that by running /usr/share/doc/python-xdg/examples/test-menu.py01:55
Amaranthoh, python only knows ascii and unicode01:55
Amaranthshouldn't be a problem in ubuntu though, should it?01:55
Amarantheverything is supposed to be utf-801:55
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ograAmaranth, yes, everything is supposed to, but tere is a lt of stuff not converted yet in universe01:57
Amaranthyeah, someone installed 'iPodder' and got this error01:57
Amaranthbut i just realized i think there are about 10 places to find and fix to make pyxdg fail silently01:58
Amaranthand skip that file01:58
ograAmaranth, there is a utf8 migration tool, written by Mithrandir, its not ready yet, but you probably can grab some conversion code from it01:58
seb128what is the issue? the filename?01:59
seb128I don't think that a lot of packages install no utf8 filenames01:59
seb128I don't have one here01:59
Amaranthbad filename means bad DesktopFileID01:59
seb128I would say that's a minor bug01:59
seb128but still a bu01:59
Amaranthif no packages do it only someone who knows what they're doing should be able to make non-UTF8 filenames02:00
seb128or some broken software02:01
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pittiHi carstenh, how's it going?02:04
carstenhhi pitti, fine. i'm currently working on the core module ond hope to release a first version before jbailey comes back from vacation02:05
JaneWcarstenh: hello02:06
\shpitti: it isn't the truth, right, that mentors.debian.net is running on ubuntu?02:06
carstenhJaneW: hi02:06
JaneWcarstenh, nice to see you here - seems like you are busy :)02:06
seb128elmo: glib2.0 (2.7.3/experimental) sync please :)02:06
carstenhpitti: JaneW: i will send a weekly report today or tommorow02:06
carstenhJaneW: yes :)02:07
JaneWcarstenh: excellent thanks. Just been reporting an MIA student, so you are a huge contrast to that:)02:07
=== JaneW hands carstenh a virtual Gold Star (tm) ;)
carstenhJaneW: jbailey wanted to ask you who the maintainer for GraphicalConfigTools is02:08
carstenhJaneW: thanks :)02:08
carstenhpitti: a few thinks have changed, but they are not on the wiki at the moment02:08
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Mitariohello everyone02:09
JaneWcarstenh: I think it's ogra - but let me check02:09
JaneWogra: ping02:09
JaneWogra: do you maintain GraphicalConfigTools?02:09
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JaneWogra: you were the lead on the soec...02:09
ograthats me, or rather retrix who is working on the bounty02:10
JaneWcarstenh: is that all you needed?02:10
carstenhJaneW: yes, thanks02:10
ogracarstenh, doe he need something from me ?02:11
ogradoes even02:11
Riddellpitti: did you see the QCATLS main review request?02:11
carstenhogra: hi, i'm working on the firewall bounty. are you going to implement another system-v service configuration tool?02:11
carstenhogra: or rather your student02:11
ogracarstenh, i think we're fine with the one from gnome-system-tools thats currently in02:11
carstenhogra: ok02:12
ogrado you plan a startup script for the firewall ?02:12
Mitariohmm, xbase-clients has been broken for a few days now right?02:12
ograMitario, yes....02:12
carstenhogra: do you think integrating the firewall-gui in your framework makes sense?02:12
carstenhogra: yes, it will be in /etc/network/if-{up,down}.d/02:13
ogracarstenh, do you write something new ? or do you adjust the firestarter stuff ?02:13
carstenhogra: and a gui to easily configure the firewall02:13
carstenhogra: something new, integrating firestarter in ubuntu the way we do it would be very hard02:14
retrixogra, carstenh, i could possibly manage that02:14
retrixcarstenh, how involved do you imagine the configuration options would be?02:14
ograthere is no special framework, but if you need someone to write a gui probably retrix is your guy, the ndiswrapper gui he wrote is nearly in shape so there might be time for more :)02:14
carstenhretrix: hi, i don't really understand your question :/02:15
carstenhogra: i will write the gui myself, it's part of the bounty ;)02:15
schweebI've always rather disliked firestarter02:15
ograah, ok02:15
schweebit could use quite a bit of fixing before it's ready for the home user02:16
ograschweeb, its not worse then zone alarm ;)02:16
schweebat least zone alarm manages to cleanly remove all of its rules before exiting02:16
NafalloI started to dislike firestarter when I couldn't upload POs to rosetta :-P02:16
carstenhretrix: are you writing your tools with pygtk?02:16
retrixcarstenh, yep02:17
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schweebfirestarter tends to leave behind all kinds of rules02:17
pitti\sh: their web site says so02:17
\shpitti: and then this discussion...funny..really02:17
carstenhretrix: i will integrate my gui into gnome-system-tools (glade2 + c + python)02:17
schweeblast time I tried it, it basically blocked all access to the internet, and then after I quit, it stayed that way02:18
schweebI had to manually flush my iptables02:18
pitti\sh: well, there's not really sth to discuss about, it rather belongs to debian-curiosa or whatever :-)02:18
pittiRiddell: yes, I did. Sorry, still EBUSY02:18
pittiRiddell: could you add the bug and security history?02:18
Riddellpitti: no rush, just checking you'd registered it :)02:18
ogracarstenh, g-s-t had a perl backend last time i looked (dunno if garnacho rewrote it)02:18
Riddellpitti: ok, will do02:18
pittiRiddell: yes, I subscribed to the wiki page02:18
=== schweeb goes to work
\shpitti: I just had to laugh...but not because it's running an apache2 package with ubuntu string, but that there is a small thread about it02:19
carstenhogra: they would accept pery and python backends (according to the readme)02:19
ogracarstenh, so its rather (glade2 + c + perl) ;)02:19
ograoh, thats new, nice :)02:19
carstenhogra: ... and ubuntu projects are normally written in python02:19
carstenhpitti: do you think a firewall should be started by default, even if no service is installed? it would prevent viruses from being accessed from outside.02:20
carstenh... of couse it would be possible to disable it i.e. with vi /etc/default/firewall or the gui02:21
pitticarstenh: sure, if the default policy is sane (which it should anyway), it should just work02:22
Nafallo++ on that one :-)02:23
pitti\sh: it's not the apache string, the web site advertises "powered by ubuntu"02:23
=== Nafallo reads the wikipage
carstenhpitti: it will be sane, but only services that provide rules would be able to listen to the network. if a use installs something without using the package-system it would be blocked02:24
carstenh... unless the user writes rules for that daemon02:24
pitticarstenh: I guess we can still disable it last-minute if we don't manage to create rules for all servers?02:25
Nafallo... or add an advanced tab in the gui?02:25
carstenhpitti: sure, will be a 1-line-patch :)02:25
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ograNafallo, rather leave them out of the gui and make it gconf keys you can set with the gconf-editor02:26
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carstenhmust all rules be finished before the 11th of august?02:27
carstenhi guess a missing rule is some kind of important bug, so it should be fixable even later02:27
Nafalloogra: I would prefer an "advanced" button. you should not have to use the registry ;-).02:30
ograNafallo, its not a registry, its the place where advanced options have to go to not clutter the GUI and make it ugly02:30
mdkegconf is totally similar to a registry02:31
ogranot at all02:31
Treenaksgconf != debconf :)02:31
Nafalloogra: IMO it looks more like winreg than anything else I've ever seen in linux ;-)02:31
mdkefrom a user perspective02:31
ograthe windows registry is a havoc...02:31
Nafalloor regedit rather02:31
ogramdke, gconf is dotfiles-ng ;)02:31
Treenaksogra: no, Havoc wrote gconf (right?)02:31
mdkeogra, naturally it is not as bad, but it has a similar feel for the user02:32
=== ogra likes this wordgame everytime
mdkeit is totally un-user-friendly02:32
ogramdke, thats why its for advanced users that need advanced options...02:32
azeemmdke: normal user shouldn't need to use it, anyway02:32
mdkethat is debateable02:33
Nafalloanyway. with an advanced tab to override serviceports and the like you could actually run your apache2 as localhost only if you would want to.02:33
mdkebut i don't really think its that good for advanced users either02:33
jdubogra: that's not what gconf is for02:33
ograjdub, so explain it to us then :)02:33
jdubmdke: gconf is for *programmers*; it is an api and infrastructure for handling configuration metadata, including policy (mandatory/default settings)02:34
mdkejdub, sometimes users edit gconf to change settings which do not appear in the gui, right?02:34
jdubmdke: gconf-editor, the raw front end, is not intended to be used by regular users02:34
jdubonly very particular kinds of users02:35
ograjdub, how do i set burnproof for n-c-b then ?02:35
carstenhpitti: what about logging _spoofed_ packets, sould it be possible?02:35
jdubogra: hrm?02:35
ograjdub, without using gconf-editor as a advanced settings tool02:35
jdubogra: it's not designed to be an "advanced settings tool"02:36
pitticarstenh: unintrusively, yes. some syslog02:36
azeemogra: just edit the XML data in ~/.gconf with vi02:36
mdkejdub, yes I mean gconf-editor the frontend. the discussion was about whether settings should be ommitted from a gui preferences tool because they can be accessed there. My view was "no"02:36
ograjdub, burnproof is off by default, n-c-b has no option to enable it, gconf is the only way... there are many apps that use it this way02:36
bob2hah, nearly raster02:36
jdubi don't know what burnproof is, or what the use cases for it are, so i can't answer that02:36
Nafalloogra: that's a bug then02:36
jdubazeem: those files are not meant to be modified directly02:37
ograjdub, a important CD burning setting you need to burn on underpowered machines02:37
carstenhpitti: ok, so i have to add spoofing rules... using /proc/... iirc does not support logging02:37
Nafallojdub: make cd-rws detect what maximum speed to use on the fly (or something like that)02:37
bob2burnproof = not get buffer underruns, even when the cpu is hammered02:37
ograNafallo, nope02:37
jdubmdke: the presence of gconf-editor is not related to the choice to make things 'just work' or the requirement for a preference02:37
azeemNafallo: no, it just stops the laser when there is a buffer-underrun and restarts when the buffer has been refilled02:37
ograNafallo, it cares for buffer underruns while burning02:38
mdkejdub, that is also my view02:38
azeemMr. Schilling argues that it does make 1:1 copies, so you have to forcibly enabled it in cdrecord02:38
mdkethe point i was making02:38
azeemeh, s/does/does not/02:38
Nafalloazeem, ogra: ahh, thanx :-). I've always wondered exactly how that worked.02:38
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jdubogra: is there any reason to not use it?02:38
ograjdub, i'm just opposed to having "advanced" tabs anywhere in a config tool02:38
ograjdub, yes, some writers dont support it02:39
jdubcan that be detected?02:39
seb128jdub: k, I'm bugging you again, sorry ... but l10n list?02:39
ogradunno... but i can look at it for breezy+1 :)02:39
seb128jdub: if there is no way just say it, ubuntu-fr.org guys will set one02:39
Nafalloogra: yay! breezy+1 goal assigned to you already? ;-)02:40
seb128jdub: I was just trying to make them working closer of Ubuntu02:40
ograNafallo, heh02:40
mdkeseb128, what is l10n list?02:40
jdubit sounds like the feature exists in n-c-b, but there has been no decision to make it 'just work' or put in a pref02:40
azeemdoes n-c-b still use cdrecord, or rather libburn these days? (and are those two really independent?)02:40
bob2mdke: localisation02:40
ograazeem, still cdrecord02:40
jdubseb128: going to do it tonight; standard will be ubuntu-<lang>-l10n02:40
seb128mdke: a list to coordinate translators work02:40
ograazeem, and yes, they are independent02:40
seb128jdub: THANKS :)02:40
mdkeseb128, different to ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com?02:41
seb128mdke: I want a french list for french translators02:41
mdkeah cool02:41
mdkenice idea02:41
seb128mdke: to coordinate french translations02:41
mdkewe've been doing ours on freelists.org02:41
ograjdub, i think its a HAL thing... the newer versions should be able to detect if burnproof is possible...02:41
jdubseb128: i'll make you the owner for now, and you can help them sort out owner/admin stuff :)02:41
jdubogra: sounds about right :-)02:41
Nafallojdub: could we have one for sweden to? I try to get those guys started to make some decisions on coordination. I haven't got an answer yet.02:42
ograyep :) 02:42
seb128jdub: k, I'm getting used to be set as owner for the lists :p02:42
jdubogra: so in the mean time, defaulting to off and not bothering with tweaky bits in the ui is the right idea02:42
jdubNafallo: i generally only create lists based on clear demand :)02:42
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ograjdub, ok... it was just my example.... we were talking about advanced options for a default enabled firewall originally ;)02:43
jdubseb128: should get an email  in a minute02:43
Nafallojdub: good point. I will probably send them another mail soon, and then go with "I took the silence as yes" to put me as coordinator ;-). anyway, that's nothing that can't be undone.02:45
jdubNafallo: is this for translation team stuff, or loco team stuff?02:46
Nafallojdub: translation02:46
jdubNafallo: and there's too much traffic on the loco team list for it?02:47
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Nafallojdub: we don't have a loco for sweden that I'm aware of.02:47
mdkejdub, if you intent this sort of list to become standard, we can think about moving ubuntu-l10n-it from freelists.org to lists.ubuntu.com. The list is used to coordinate the whole italian documentation team, regarding both rosetta and the wiki work02:47
jdubmdke: yeah, if there are others out there, we should pull them in02:47
mdkejdub, okay, will you sort it? I can get the archive02:48
jdubNafallo: hrm, had odd memory of an se list -> anyway, that's the first step, creating a loco team, then we can split off an l10n list later if required02:48
mdkebut we use the list for all documentation rather than just rosetta translation02:48
jdubmmm, i was thinking of making them ubuntu-<lang>-dev, but... meh02:49
jdubl10n covers what that development would be, so02:49
Nafallojdub: I disagree. why do we need a loco for translation work? I rather expand the other way around.02:49
=== Nermal is now known as Nermie
jdubNafallo: the idea is that loco teams handle localisation and local community outreach02:50
mdkejdub, well we have a number of groups in the locoteam, like forum/website development and locoteam, that don't use the ubuntu-l10n-it list02:50
jdubNafallo: so first we'd create ubuntu-se (which doesn't really have to be a full-on loco team)02:51
jdubNafallo: then once the l10n traffic got too much for the other loco tasks, we split off a -l10n list (as has happened in france)02:51
jdubmdke: that's what loco teams do02:51
mdkewe use our ubuntu-it for support02:51
Nafallojdub: in other words we create a loco-team that really is a translation team? :-)02:51
Nafallohehe, might work :-)02:52
jdubNafallo: to start with, if that's the major activity of the loco team, yes02:52
jdubthe loco teams focus on different kinds of things, depending on their drive02:52
=== davyd futzes with control.tar.gz to install a package
Nafallojdub: sounds good to me. I'll try to get those things rolling when the schools start again and all students are back at broadband ;-).02:54
JaneWam I correct that there is no tech board tonight?02:56
mdkenext week?02:57
NafalloJaneW: 26 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board02:57
ograJaneW, Tue 19 July 14:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda 02:57
mdkejdub, seems to be no "export archives" on freelists.org02:59
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jdubmdke: if you figure out how, let me know - though i'm going away for a week tomorrow, so perhaps we'll do this after that03:00
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mdkejdub, we don't have a problem continuing to use that list, its rocket fast :D03:01
mdkejdub, i'll email them tho03:01
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azeemare universe packages not built automatically from unstable?03:04
ograazeem, we're in UVF03:05
ograno autosyncs anymore03:06
azeempymol might actually become installable when getting a sync, but I'm not sure03:06
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davydok, my attempt to build a Xinerama aware xscreensaver has failed03:16
ogradavyd, as i said, i have it here... i just need to clean the code of the new lockwindow hack03:18
davydogra: but I wanted to do it now03:18
davydalso, I am avoiding dist-upgrading X for a while03:18
davydwhich is likely to be a dependancy of a new xscreensaver03:19
davydmy xscreensaver appears to link against libXinerama03:19
ogradavyd, wait a sec... you need amd64 ?03:19
davydogra: yeah03:19
davydI'm mostly interested in why mine didn't work03:19
davydthe 'test-xinerama' reports things sanely03:20
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ogradavyd, just uploading a binary... should be there in 5min03:22
ogradavyd, but it might not work as well, my X is a bit outdated...03:23
davydI'm running -36 with random recompiled crack03:23
ograso it myight link to the wrong lib currently03:23
davydmmm, anything could happen really03:24
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tsengNafallo: how big is your mirror03:27
ogradavyd, http://www.grawert.net/xscreensaver_4.21-4ubuntu6_amd64.deb03:27
ogradavyd, breakage in the unlock window is intentional :P03:28
Nafallotseng: 15G or so. main+restricted amd64+i386 :-)03:28
davydso turn of screen locking?03:28
Nafallotseng: and not updated in some days ;-)03:28
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ogradavyd, nope, but dont report any bugs if you find some.... and tell me how you like the window ;)03:30
davydok, can do03:30
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davydogra: hard to tell, something is wrong with the xinerama-ness03:31
davydogra: this is the same problem I was having earlier03:31
ogradavyd, yes, but its a X prob...03:31
davydit isn't aware, and screen0 flashes03:31
Nafallotseng: was about 60G when it was full !ppc :-)03:32
ogradavyd, lets solve it together if X is in shape (i have the bugs about it assigned anyway)03:32
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davydogra: I wonder if it's my half baked X setup03:32
ogradavyd, if my compile fails for you too, its unlikely your setup03:33
ogra(i have no xinerama machine around here)03:33
davydit's not the compile03:33
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ogra(at least not set up=03:33
davydit simply doesn't work as advertised03:33
davydwhich is the problem I was having03:33
davydhowever, the test-xinerama thingo that is buildable in the xscreensaver source tells me about the screens03:34
ogradoes it show the lockscreen in the middle of both screens ?03:34
ograor only on screen0 ?03:34
davydogra: in the middle of both screens03:34
davehi! anyone here who is experienced with preseeding of custom ubuntu/debian boot cds ?03:34
davydit also has the hack spread across both screens03:34
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ogradavyd, thats the xinerama implementation in X then03:35
davydogra: so, out of interest, how is it working for GTK+03:35
cartmanhi all03:35
ogradavyd, in debian its not even compiled with the -with-xinerama-support compile option, but works anyway03:35
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cartmangcc doesn't build on amd64, seems like ada should be disabled03:35
ogradavyd, dunno, i'd never touch gtk for the screensaver03:36
Treenaksteh gtk bong!03:36
ogradavyd, its all fake ;) theming with xpm and xft03:36
davydI meant actual GTK+03:37
davydmy desktop is Xinerama aware, and the test app is aware, but the main xscreensaver is not03:37
ogradavyd, ah, thats what you mean...03:37
davydthey appear to be linked against the same library03:37
ogradavyd, but probably xscreensaver does the wrong calls03:37
davydhmm, strange03:38
davydI've seen it work, it works in fc403:38
ograwhen i started the lockwindow theming last year, the lock.c file hasnt been touched for about 10 years... might apply to other parts too03:38
ograso i'd guess jwz has built in some hardcoded crap to acheive xinerama (as he does with the logo in the original lock win)03:39
davepreseeding ? anyone ?03:39
davydogra: and for the hacks themselves?03:39
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davydon fc4 it runs a hack per screen03:39
ogradavyd, most is third party stuff03:39
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davydogra: redhat patches?03:40
ogradunno hiw jwz incorporates them03:40
ograyep, sounds good03:40
davydI wonder if you can get a list of patches in a Fedora package03:40
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ogradavyd, as i said, i'm currently not working on that one and wanna wait until X is in shape again03:40
davydmm, I'm just interested03:41
ograbut fedora patches might solve it03:41
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ograi just havent looked :)03:41
=== davyd shoves in the fc4 DVD
davydhmm, no source...03:43
ogradavyd, cant you just digthe bug database at fedora ?03:43
davydI was imagining I could get it from the SRPM03:43
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=== davyd finds it on the university mirror
davydhmm, I was meant to be studying03:46
davydI think I got distracted03:46
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davydnautilus is annoying not Xinerama aware, I should work on that, it's annoying me03:47
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davydnope, they don't seem to patch that particular thing03:50
AmaranthCC meeting starting now03:59
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Amaranthsabdfl: The meeting started already04:25
pittiHey sabdfl 04:25
pittiHi Keybuk 04:25
Keybukugh, laundry is so tedious04:26
Keybuksomeone should invest heavily in self-cleaning clothes04:26
dilingerKeybuk: are you aware that they've invented machines to do laundry *for* you?04:28
dilingeryou simply put the clothes in the machine, put in some detergent, turn it on, and 30mins to an hour later, the clothes are clean!04:28
dilingerit's quite amazing :)04:28
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Amaranthdilinger: Ok, self-folding clothes then.04:28
dilingerfeh, folding clothes is optional :)04:29
Keybukdilinger: yeah, but the clothes then require drying, ironing in some circumstances04:31
dilingeri suppose if you wear things other than tshirts and jeans, then yes, additional care is required04:32
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trygvebwis there any reason why mkfontdir is NOT in the xutils package? how soon will that be fixed?04:35
Amaranthdaniels is working on it, just be patient04:37
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seth_kyou forgot to account for the time dilation produced by faulty Xorg... 201804:37
Amaranthit might be a week or so though04:37
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cartmanany idea about gcc 4.0.1 problem?04:46
cartmanmaybe someone can tell me irc nick of "Matthias Klose" ?04:46
davydMithrandir: you around?04:47
cartmanso I can notify him04:47
=== ogra hands mjg59 the "usplasher of the century" award !
davydooher, is usplash available in something?04:48
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pittiD'oh, the current dailys are so *horribly* broken...04:48
ogradavyd, see ubuntu-evel@ ;)04:48
pittianyway, gotta go, cu tomorrow04:48
ogradevel even04:48
davydyay. devel mailing lists04:49
janielmo, I know it's upstream freeze, but what about new packages in sid? I see mecurial has been there for a while but it's not in ubuntu04:54
janialso http://packages.debian.org/experimental/mail/mutt-ng :)04:55
=== davyd sleeps
ograjani, you need approvement04:55
janiogra, where do we get those?04:55
ograafter the meeting...04:55
janiirc, ml, wiki?04:56
janiah ok04:56
janisure I didn;t want to get them myself, just ask elmo to sync if he finds it reasonable04:56
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Mithrandirdavyd: yes05:00
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diemandaniels: poke05:15
Amaranthdieman: xbase-clients isn't done05:15
diemanany other x-like people in here?05:15
Amaranthdepends on what you need05:15
diemani was wondering how fucked I may be if I backport breezy's x server to hoary.05:16
diemanie: are upgrades to breezy going to be ok05:16
AmaranthI'll strangle you.05:16
diemanor is there major breakage coming?05:16
diemanhey, its just a local package :)05:16
diemanim not distributing this stuff05:16
Amaranthwell, xorg doesn't work now and work on making clean upgrades from hoary to breezy xorg hasn't even started05:16
diemanok, that answers my question05:17
diemannow to look into backporting the intel driver into hoary's x server :)05:17
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Amaranthdist-upgrade takes 3-4 trys to even get everything installed05:17
Amaranthand that's when xorg is working05:17
diemanI need i945 support like, now. :)05:18
diemanso i'll just look into it on this end05:18
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Nafallojdub: blog-ping ;-).05:25
Nafallojdub: you got mail instead :-)05:29
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dokoKeybuk: would it be technically possible to run MOM for a list of source packages, i.e. those from CxxLibraryList?05:30
Keybuklist needs to be of the form "source-package-name distro-release-name"05:31
Keybukie. "coreutils main" ... "wpasupplicant universe"05:31
dokook, I'll prepare one. sepratate by newline?05:32
Keybukif you get it to me within the next ~24 hours, I can set up a run for you05:32
Keybukotherwise you'll have to wait until ~Friday05:32
=== dieman hates building X someplace just after hating building openoffice.
diemanopenoffice builds suck.05:34
seth_khaha, how long did it take?05:36
diemanoh, i think that one was at least 12 hours, i dont remember05:36
diemanit was awful05:36
diemantook like 10gb of space too i think05:36
diemani just remember it being a few order of magnitudes worse than X05:36
diemanlamont probally knows well how long it takes on the buildds05:37
lamontOO.o is around 6 hours on i386 (building arch all)05:39
lamontfaster everywhere else05:39
diemanyouve got faster boxes most likely too05:39
fabbionehey lamont 05:39
diemanthis was only on my 3ghz with 1gb of memory and single disk05:39
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lamontdieman: 3Ghz, 2GB RAM05:40
diemanmore memory05:40
diemanlamont: how you doing these days?05:41
diemanor you busy, i can talk to you some other time too.05:41
lamontdoing well, mostly.  catching up on email and such before heading to the office for the day05:41
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diemanheh. i hate the email after being gone for a week05:42
diemanwe moved just earlier this month, so i wasn't in the loop here for a bit. 05:43
lamontiz daily thing...05:43
lamontweek or 2 ago, I did a hoary install on ia64, and we got the one bug fixed for breezy..05:44
diemanive got a old itanium 1 collecting dust05:44
diemanits been turned off for a while.05:44
lamontI need to fetch a new d-i build for ia64 and see if the most recent kernel needs some ia64 love, or where my issue is there05:44
dieman2 processor, 4 way mobo05:44
bddebianWell send it to me! :-)05:44
diemanso broken spatial is going away in breezy it sounds, right?05:45
mjg59jbailey: Ping? We need to discuss initrd/initramfs and usplash integration at some stage05:46
carstenhmjg59: he will not answer before wednesday05:51
mjg59carstenh: No problem05:55
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Keybuk2005-07-19 17:36:33,017 INFO Creating manifest item for 'apache2-2.0.54/debian/patches/001_apachectl_is_differently_fucked'06:36
=== Keybuk giggles
KeybukI still think that's funny, every time I see it06:37
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fabbioneseb128: ping?06:55
seb128fabbione: pong06:55
fabbioneseb128: i found the problem... 06:55
fabbioneseb128: i will need your help to find the cure :(06:55
seb128the libc bog?06:56
fabbioneseb128: basically a set of gnome libs have been linked wrongly06:56
fabbionethe toolchain now seems to work06:56
fabbioneprobably it was in the past..06:56
fabbionethis link error did propagate quite wildly around all of gnome06:56
seb128what send? and do they have anything caracteristic?06:56
fabbioneup till now i figured only 2 libs that need to be rebuilded..06:57
fabbioneseb128: eh i am not sure..06:57
fabbioneit's nothing you can grep for06:57
seb128if you wait next week there is a new GNOME upstream06:57
seb128I'll probably reupload almost the whole stack again06:57
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fabbionei think we can grep for it..06:58
seb128oh, cool06:58
fabbioneno it's not cool06:59
seb128if we can list the stuff to rebuild I can manage to upload with the right order06:59
fabbioneseb128: i am afraid it will be faster to rebuild sparc from scratch06:59
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seb128fabbione: grumpf .. so what do you want to do?07:00
seb128fabbione: I'll reupload a good part of GNOME for new version next week as said, I can reupload the libs with the right order this week to start if you want07:01
fabbioneseb128: just do what you need to do... i am checking some extra stuff to see if i can actually recover it07:01
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=== fabbione needs a smoke
fabbioneseb128: ok.. sparc is gone is to hell07:04
fabbionego ahead and don't worry...07:04
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seb128fabbione: k :/07:06
fabbioneseb128: well either i kill the entire port07:07
fabbioneor we fork 30 pkgs..07:07
seb128fork for what?07:07
fabbionebut given that the toolchain is not good.. i had rather prefer the former07:07
seb12830 package doesn't seem to be a lot to rebuild07:08
fabbioneseb128: there is a workaround to that problem..07:08
fabbioneseb128: it's not enough to rebuild..07:08
fabbioneyou need to build changing linking flags07:08
seb128your build-chain is fixed?07:08
fabbioneso it's NO option07:08
fabbioneseb128: no idea..07:08
fabbionei will have to figure it once i get gcc-4.0.1 builded07:08
seb128if the build-chain is not fixed that's going to be tricky07:08
fabbioneseb128: i will have to investigate07:09
=== Amaranth goes to lunch
fabbioneseb128: thanks a lot for your support07:09
=== fabbione drops a tear on seb128's shoulder
seb128no problem, don't worry :)07:10
=== sivang is back
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fabbioneelmo: ping+07:16
elmofabbione: ?07:18
fabbioneelmo: is it possible for you to kill all the sparc binary pkgs for breezy?07:19
fabbioneelmo: just asking.. don't do it right away please07:19
ogra_elmo, did highvoltage approach you yet ? wrt edubuntu.org ?07:20
seb128elmo: can you sync glib2.0 (2.7.3) from exp please?07:20
elmoogra_: yeah07:20
fabbioneelmo: btw.. did you notice that morgue.u.c is stalled at 3 months ago or so?07:20
highvoltagehi elmo.07:21
elmoseb128: it's not in experimental yet?07:21
elmofabbione: oh, no07:21
elmohighvoltage: hi07:21
sivangseb128: I'm getting an error on another breezy box of mine trying to autogen a lib, 07:21
highvoltageelmo: how's that webspace for edubuntu going?07:21
sivangaclocal: configure.ac: 12: macro `AM_PATH_PYTHON' not found in library07:21
sivangaclocal: configure.ac: 14: macro `AM_PATH_GTK_2_0' not found in library07:22
elmohighvoltage: it hasn't happened yet, I'm working on it, and will let you know as soon as it's ready07:22
sivangseb128: what am I missing?07:22
ogra_seb128, what do you think about having some export calls in gnome-session and a gconf set of environment vars, so we could have a gui later to set environment vars without editing files ?07:22
seb128sivang: you need some -dev packages you don't have installed apparently07:22
sivangseb128: thanks07:22
ogra_seb128, breezy+X question indeed07:22
highvoltageelmo: thanks.07:22
seb128elmo: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/glib2.0/glib2.0_2.7.3.orig.tar.gz has it, it should be here since yesterday run07:22
elmook, maybe ftp.uk's being crap again, one sec07:23
seb128ogra_: what issue are you trying to solve?07:23
ogra_seb128, fiddling with .gnomerc and .bashrc 07:23
lamontelmo/mdz: what was the policy on promoting things from universe-> main for ports architectures?07:23
elmolamont: same deal as normal, AFAIK?07:24
seb128ogra_: why the heck to you want to change these files from gnome-session?07:24
Amaranthno one has needed the morgue until all this X stuff so no one noticed :)07:24
ogra_seb128, i dont want to change these files, but want a process to extend your PATH for example ...07:24
ogra_seb128, even windows has a gui to set nv vars07:24
elmoseb128: done07:24
lamontelmo: ok...  binutils-hppa64 is universe, needs to be main (gcc-4.0 build-dep), and there are 3-4 palo packages that should move, too... email to mdz cc you?07:24
seb128ogra_: gnome-session doesn't seem to be the right place07:24
seb128elmo: thanks07:25
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ogra_seb128, and this issue comes up once a month in -users07:25
seb128ogra_: users are lame07:25
ogra_seb128, other suggestions where to introduce such a feature ?07:25
seb128ogra_: they know what PATH is but not how to edit a file?07:25
AmaranthPATH has been around since the DOS days for them though07:25
seb128and why do you need to set PATH?07:26
=== fabbione &
ogra_seb128, the prob is tha PATH is handled in different files... until a user discovers .gnmerc might do it, he already fucked up his /etc/environment /etc/profile ~/.bashrc ~/.bash_profile07:26
elmolamont: binutils-hppa64 should be easy, it's part of an existing main package, the others are relatively small and harmless too.  so, mail might work, but i believe there's some hoops to jump through these days07:26
seb128ogra_: they don't have to mess with PATH07:27
ogra_seb128, its not PATH but any environment vars...07:27
sivangogra_: what kind of env vars do you think they would want to modify?07:27
ogra_seb128, we have no easy way to do that07:27
lamontelmo: there should be hoops, given UVF and all07:27
seb128ogra_: and next you want a UI to set LDFLAGS and CFLAGS for people programming but to lame for that?07:27
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=== lamont sends email
ogra_dunno... some want ~/scripts in their path etc07:28
seb128ogra_: start by listing good reason to edit variables07:28
ogra_seb128, user demand ?07:28
seb128ogra_: good reason I said, users ask all sort of craps07:28
sivangogra_: you're thinking of something like the set environment variables in Win ?07:29
ogra_seb128, yes, but its discussed quite often in -users... i'll collect some reasons over time07:29
ogra_sivang, yes07:29
seb128ogra_: k, do a spec07:29
seb128ie: a rationnal07:29
ogra_seb128, its not urgent, i just wanted a second opinion07:29
seb128then we will fix the it07:29
seb128there is no good rationnal for that imho07:29
seb128we already change gdm.conf to set a correct PATH for users07:29
seb128that should "just work"07:30
ogra_seb128, beside "others do it" ?07:30
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seb128if they have specific reason I'm sure we will find how to fix that, but figure the reasons to start07:30
ogra_seb128, i'd see it as part of commandline disintegration07:30
seb128nobody should have to set a PATH even from an UI07:30
seb128or PYTHONPATH or whatever07:31
ogra_i.e. you install java from the sun package... you have to set some vars07:31
seb128usually if you start changing that, that's because you use the command line and you should be able to edit a file07:31
sivangseb128: you have any idea where lies AM_PATH_PYTHON macro? My autogen is complaining about it..07:31
seb128read the wiki on how to install java packages07:31
seb128sivang: python-dev (random guess)07:31
ogra_seb128, if you take the original sun package you have to... 07:32
sivangseb128: tried that :-(07:32
seb128ogra_: the point it to use packages07:32
ogra_seb128, i know07:32
seb128you workaround an issue (installing the jvm) which something totally orthogonal07:32
seb128sivang: automake1.7: /usr/share/aclocal-1.7/python.m407:33
seb128by example07:33
seb128use a correct automake version :p07:33
sivangseb128: how do I know what the correct version is? :-)07:35
sivangseb128: or better, how do I know to find the right version when getting such an error?07:35
=== sivang finally watches the lp integration library autogens on the other dev box
seb128sivang: I've already package launchpad-integration yesterday, don't bother with that07:40
seb128I'll upload tonight07:40
seb128sivang: and update-alternatives --config automake to set the default automake07:40
sivangseb128: ah no, I had a problem with refreshing my gedit package - I knew you were already packaging the lib, I just built from jamesh's baz to test 07:44
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sivangseb128: acutally, I had to install 1.7, wasn't my default (it was 1.4)07:45
seb128sivang: k07:45
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pabs3hi all, while doing some qa work for debian's xchat package, I looked at the ubuntu patches that scott provides. it seems ubuntu has included an xhosa translation for xsane in the ubuntu xchat package. is this intentional? was their an xchat xhosa translation, does anyone know where it might have went?07:48
KamionCanonical paid some contractors to do Xhosa translation; it may have been part of that. Don't know whether it was submitted upstream.07:50
mdkei think the xhosa stuff is in rosetta, you should be able to find it there07:50
pabs3but, including a translation for a completely different package in xchat is probly the wrong thing to do, no?07:51
=== pabs3 checks rosetta
Kamionoh, I see what you mean07:53
Kamionsounds like a mistake, yes07:54
pabs3nope, no xhosa translation in rosetta07:54
mdkeno, confirmed07:54
pabs3hmm, rosetta is nice tho07:55
pabs3anyway, cyas07:55
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JanC<Amaranth> oh, python only knows ascii and unicode08:00
sivangseb128: darn, I did as you said about the configure stuff, and still I got alot of diff for the configure script08:00
lamontexport DH_COMPAT=108:00
JanCthe default encoding in python is ascii for normal strings08:00
=== lamont giggles
AmaranthJanC: yes08:00
JanCand unicode for unicode strings08:01
seb128sivang: what is the size of the diff?08:01
mdkecarlos, here?08:01
AmaranthJanC: yes08:01
JanCfilenames are normal strings if they are not unicode08:01
carlosmdke, yes08:01
AmaranthJanC: yes08:01
sivangseb128: 42k08:01
seb128sivang: that's quite small08:01
JanCso you need to use encoding/decoding08:01
seb128autostuff patch usually do ~200k08:01
AmaranthJanC: There are things that are not unicode that python can't handle.08:01
seb128sivang: gzip it, what size?08:02
JanCit can, after encoding/decoding  :)08:02
Amaranthonly if you make it drop things it doesn't understand08:02
JanCI think there was a discussion about this on python-dev recently08:02
mdkecarlos, is there a page where I can view all the languages and status on (.e.g) the quickguide? Since rosetta was organised by language rather than by package I can't find it...08:02
Amaranthor somehow know the encoding08:03
JanCyou should know the encoding ?08:03
sivangseb128: 4k08:03
seb128sivang: that's nothing for a package08:03
Amaranthin ubuntu it's utf-8 which will work fine08:04
Amaranthexcept for broken packages and such that make things non-utf-808:04
mdkecarlos, this page gives me a system error https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/quickguide08:04
Amaranthif it's not utf-8 i don't have a clue what it is08:04
sivangseb128: ok, so I'll check if the already posted package (that I Sent you the link to) is ok, if so, that's still the package to use08:04
carlosmdke, yes, there is08:04
carlosmdke, but as you say, it gives a system error.08:04
carlosthat's a bug, it should work08:04
mdkecarlos, ah ok, is it filed? shall i do so?08:04
JanCAmaranth: I think most of the time anything 8-bit should work fine if you use the same codec for encoding & decoding  ;-)08:07
Amaranthi'm getting a unicode error when using utf-808:07
carlosmdke, please, file it08:09
mdkecarlos, ok i've filed it at #1511. I've also noted the difficulty in finding the page at #1510, although maybe that won't be accepted ;)08:11
carlosmdke, well, you have a link to it from the sourcepackage page08:14
carlosmdke, you want to see the translations for a concrete package08:14
carlosso you look for the package and then select "see the translations"08:14
carlosmdke, we just removed the duplicate list of sourcepackages08:14
carlosone for translations and the normal one from the normal "soyuz" functionality08:15
carlosmdke, anyway, if you still think it's not as user friendly as you think it should be, is ok to bug us about that so we can try to think a way to improve that08:15
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mdkei went to ubuntu-docs but didn't see any links to it, but I'll have another go, and close the bug if necessary08:24
mdkecarlos, ^08:24
carlosmdke, look at the column on the left08:25
carlos"translation sets" box08:26
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mdkecarlos, from which page?08:27
carlosmdke, the one you told me: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/ubuntu-docs08:28
sivangseb128: ok, last post from me to you about the gedit package still holds08:29
sivangseb128: so test it, and upload if you like08:29
mdkecarlos, ok i see it! How do I find the +sources/ubuntu-docs page?08:29
mdkecarlos, i tried some searches on https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources but couldn't find anything08:30
carlosthen that's a bug on soyuz ;-)08:30
mdkeok i'll file that too08:31
carlosright, no source package found..08:31
mdkeperhaps that is the cause of the system error :)08:31
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diemanthere we go08:35
diemannow ive got a hoary x server with i845G support08:35
dieman945G rather08:35
pittiogra_: did you recently happen to install an amd64 daily?08:35
ogra_pitti, nope08:35
pittiI tried this afternoon, and apt-cdrom seems to be broken08:36
ogra_pitti, but X is been very outdated here... and there were other issues reported to -users08:36
pittiogra_: no, I don't even come that far08:36
Mezdo the xorg changes affect xf86? 08:37
ogra_apt-cdrom is new to me08:37
pittiogra_: stage 2 fails since it claims that my Ubuntu CD is not an Ubuntu CD08:37
ogra_oh 08:37
ogra_how old is this build ?08:37
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pittiogra_: today08:38
pittiogra_: did you try colony 2? does it work?08:38
ogra_pitti, nope, i didnt try, but there were many reports that it doesnt...08:39
pittiso I bought an amd64 and can't install it *sniff*08:39
ogra_pitti, currently i'm waiting for the next colony for my first edubuntu CD tests08:39
ogra_pitti, hoary....08:39
ogra_and upgrade then...08:39
pittiogra_: no, I just continue to use my i386 partition for now08:40
ogra_if you install anyway it doesnt matter if hoary or breezy... and apt-cdrom work on hoary to upgrade from it :)08:40
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pittiogra_: I don't install, I still have the hds of my old computer08:42
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pittiogra_: well, ubuntu-desktop is not installable anyway due to X breakage08:42
pittiso I'll just wait08:43
pittiand sorry for being OT08:43
ogra_heh, yes, next time ask in #ubuntu please :)08:44
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OddAbe19how stable IS X anyway?08:48
OddAbe19for a dist-upgrade from hoary08:48
ogra_OddAbe19, dont do it08:48
ogra_wait a week08:48
wasabi_I would suggest you don't do it, as well.08:48
OddAbe19lol, that's what i was wondering08:48
OddAbe19what broke it? the GCC transition?08:49
ogra_OddAbe19, the X transition :)08:50
ogra_x gets modularized and the X11R6 paths dissapear completely08:50
OddAbe19oh wow08:51
OddAbe19that's quite a change08:51
OddAbe19i had no idea08:51
ogra_it happens upstream too...08:52
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dokodaniels: is xutils just broken, or does it get restructered? no, I don't mind an empty package, really.09:02
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ogra_doko, saves bandwith :)09:04
wasabi_Hmm. Nautilus crashes nicely while trying to access https09:16
highvoltagei like it more when it crashes spectacularly, that way there's a bigger chance that it will be fixed soon.09:18
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ogra_wasabi_, https ? with nautilus ?09:19
wasabi_Supposed to be webdav.09:21
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wasabi_and somebody should compile cadaver with ssl support09:26
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Keybukis gossip broken?09:47
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Keybukno, is me09:54
thomKeybuk: you're a gossip? we knew that already ;-)09:55
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jammcq_ottawahey all, anybody know when/where the next Ubuntu developer meeting is going to be?10:00
ogra_jammcq_ottawa, no final word about that yet10:00
ogra_rumors about south america, canada and germany have been heard 10:00
jammcq_ottawaogra_: thanks.  we're trying to plan our LTSP dev meeting, and we've picked Nov 3-610:00
ogra_where will it be ?10:01
jammcq_ottawaSouthwest Harbor, Maine10:02
jammcq_ottawawanna come ?10:02
jammcq_ottawaanybody is welcome10:02
jammcq_ottawathis will be our 3rd annual event, and this year, I'm going to try and run it the way UDU was run. I was pretty impressed with that10:02
ogra_dunno nif i have the time... i would be interested as the edubuntu guy here, but we just ha release then and i guess i might have to do some promotional stuff...10:03
jammcq_ottawai'm just trying to keep it clear of the Ubuntu mtg10:03
highvoltagejammcq_ottawa: do you have some details up somewhere?10:03
jammcq_ottawaand I vote for Canada, if anybody cares :)10:03
ogra_jammcq_ottawa, make sure mdz nows about it, i guess he might be very interested10:03
ogra_jammcq_ottawa, canada in oct/nov ? 10:04
jammcq_ottawahighvoltage: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WebSearch?search=BTS&scope=text10:04
jammcq_ottawahighvoltage: sorry,10:04
jammcq_ottawalemme get the right link10:04
maswannorthern sweden in february? :)10:04
jammcq_ottawaSydney in April ?  nice :)10:05
dnakatai'm afraid if it's in the usa, a lot of people won't show, who would otherwise love to attend10:05
dnakatacanada would certainly be a slightly more politically accessible country10:05
jammcq_ottawaI agree10:05
jammcq_ottawaand i'm from the US :)10:05
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dnakataaustralia would work too, unfortunately it's rather expensive to travel to from any major continent10:05
dnakata(as far as i know, at least)10:06
bddebianWTF.  We need to have SOMETHING in the US10:06
ogra_dnakata, our last one was in sydney10:06
thombddebian: fix your government10:06
thombddebian: then people might want to risk it10:06
ogra_bddebian, as thim said :)10:06
ogra_thom even10:06
bddebianNothing wrong with it any more than many other countries10:06
jammcq_ottawaheh, we tried, last november10:06
dnakatai should put a vote in for great britain10:06
thombddebian: dude, the possibility of dmca arrests on entry is a pretty big turn off10:07
=== jammcq_ottawa thinks Canada would be a fine place
maswanbddebian: it is on the list of rather few countries that have put someone in jail for giving a presentation at a conference10:07
thomjammcq_ottawa: nod, definitely10:07
dnakatawell, canada's a bit large.10:07
=== ogra_ would prefer south america
dnakataby 'canada', are you implicitly saying toronto?10:07
jammcq_ottawabrazil would be FINE with me10:08
dnakatavancouver, calgary, edmonton?10:08
dnakatamontreal, there's a good spot10:08
highvoltagelots of stuff are happening in brazil. it sounds like a free-software friendly place.10:08
ogra_dnakata, the woods !10:08
jammcq_ottawadnakata: I think vancouver would be nice.  i'm tired of Toronto10:08
dnakataogra_: yellowknifo!10:08
ogra_dnakata, we are supposed to work there ;)10:08
dnakatahehe, yeah vancouver10:08
jammcq_ottawadnakata: montreal is also a great place, or ottawa10:08
bddebianOh you are right, I'd much rather go to a country where they'd just kill me on site10:09
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ogra_bddebian, they do this in canada ? o_O10:10
jammcq_ottawaok, so apparently the Time/Place hasn't been decided yet10:10
jammcq_ottawahopefully it won't be Nov 3-610:10
ogra_jammcq_ottawa, could be....10:10
jammcq_ottawabut /me thinks it will be10:10
bddebianogra_: No not in Canada :-)10:10
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ogra_bddebian, ;)10:11
bddebianogra_: Though Jeff Bailey might shoot me if I go to Canada ;-P10:11
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JanCAmaranth, still around ?10:26
JanCor maybe seb128 ?10:27
seb128don't ask to ask just ask10:28
JanCI think this fixes python-xdg: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/68010:28
JanCat least, smeg works on my system after changing those 2 lines...10:29
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Amaranthi'm willing to bet the DesktopFileID isn't right though10:30
JanCwhat's "right" ?10:31
JanCI don't see how it can be "right" in case of a broken filename...10:31
Burgundaviajdub, you know how in your 10x10 meeting you talked about MS p2p stuff? http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,2180,1835355,00.asp10:32
AmaranthJanC: You get unicode errors without that?10:32
JanCAmaranth : UnicodeDecodeError yes10:33
Amaranthooh, finally a guinea pig10:33
JanCboth with unicode filenames & with broken filenames10:33
JanCand both are fixed by this 2-line change  :)10:33
JanC(for me, at least)10:33
Amaranthdo you know what file it's breaking on and what menu entry that file represents?10:33
JanCah, not like that, I just copied gedit.desktop10:34
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Amaranthand mangled it's filename?10:35
JanCI made 2 copies, both as "gdit"10:35
JanCone utf-8 encoded10:35
Amaranthwhich works, right?10:35
JanCthe other iso8859-15 encoded10:35
Amaranthwhich doesn't, right?10:35
JanCI'm not sure about utf-810:36
Amaranthget rid of it10:36
JanCthe test-menu.py script is broken10:36
Amaranthhave just the iso8859-15 one so we know which one you're working with10:36
Amaranthwhat do you mean broken?10:36
JanCeverything gets converted to ascii before printing   :)10:36
JanCwhich obviously gives an error10:37
Amaranthwell, whatever, we're using smeg :)10:37
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JanCI was first testing with it, that's why I'm not sure about the utf-8   :)10:37
Amaranthok, you have your mangled gedit and smeg loads with that patch, right?10:37
Amaranthok, use smeg to move that gedit to another category10:38
Amaranthmake sure it moved in smeg, then restart smeg and make sure it's still moved10:38
mdkeooh i have X in breezy. an unexpected delight. Not gnome though10:38
AmaranthJanC: done?10:39
pittimdke: your session doesn't start and just hangs at the first progress icon?10:39
JanChow do I move ?10:39
Amaranthdrag and drop10:39
JanCI can't move anything it seems ?10:40
Amaranthwhat version of smeg do you have? :)10:40
mdkepitti, it doesn't start and I don't get any progress icons. Sadly I can't get into the console either :) ctrl alt F1 doesn't work10:40
JanCI use the last smeg in breezy ?10:40
Amaranthany errors?10:40
JanCstarted smeg from cli & no errors10:41
Amaranthyou're dragging from right treeview to left treeview, right?10:42
JanCmoving is implemented after 0.7.5 ?10:42
mdkepitti, i can get a failsafe gnome though, with some xkb errors10:42
Amaranthso you have it10:42
Amaranthmdke: System->Preferences->Keyboard, reset defaults10:42
Amaranthas long as /etc/X11/xkb/xkbcomp is a symlink to /usr/bin/xkbcomp and you do that you shouldn't get any xkb errors10:43
mdkei get 13 packages that don't upgrade on a dist-upgrade, most of which are core gnome components10:43
JanCAmaranth : xdg doesn't like unicode DesktopFileIDs or what ?10:44
Amaranthpyxdg likes _only_ unicode DesktopFileIDs10:44
JanCthey weren't unicode before...10:44
Amaranthmdke: why don't they upgrade?10:44
AmaranthJanC: pyxdg deals in pure unicode10:45
Amaranthit converts everything to unicode objects10:45
mdkedependency problems, i'm still trying to figure out what is the cause, probably xlibs tho10:45
JanCI added some print repr() statements to Menu.py and they were not all unicode strings ?10:46
Amaranthsomething is very broken then10:47
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Amaranththe moment pyxdg reads something from the files it should be converting to unicode10:47
Amaranthanyway, this is not our problem10:47
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JanCthey are all unicode now though10:47
JanCwith my patch10:47
Amaranthok, cool10:47
Amaranththis is not our problem10:47
mdkeAmaranth, the xkb link looks fine, but its having trouble configuring xlibs due to an error "rmdir: `/etc/X11/xkb/geometry/digital_vndr': Directory not empty" that seems to be blocking the dist-upgrade, afaics10:47
JanCAmaranth : it's a filename, not read from a file10:48
Amaranthmdke: haha10:48
Amaranthmdke: that was a PITA10:48
mdkeAmaranth, known?10:48
mdkebug is filed?10:48
Amaranthmdke: rm -rf /etc/X11/xkb/*, see what the error is now (something about a dir missing iirc), create an empty dir for it10:48
JanCAmaranth, look at the original code:10:49
JanCself.DesktopFileID = os.path.join(prefix,filename).replace("/", "-")10:49
Amaranthafter xlibs is installed reinstall xkeyboard-config (dunno if you need this or not)10:49
AmaranthJanC: *beats lanius*10:49
Amaranthok, this is not our problem10:49
Amaranthcome on, you never answered me10:49
mdkeAmaranth, ok i will try that workaround, but is the problem filed as a bug do you know? if not, I'll search b.u.c10:49
Amaranthdaniels is busy with other things10:50
mdkein that case, doubly important to file a bug10:50
AmaranthJanC: what happens when you drag something from the right treeview to the left treeview?10:50
mdkethat way, when he is less busy, he can handle it10:50
Amaranthmdke: oh, you need to recreate the xkbcomp link afterward10:51
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JanCAmaranth : hm, seems like it works when I drop on _some_ folders & not on others ?10:52
mdkeAmaranth, #12743 looks like what I have10:53
AmaranthJanC: Yes, it won't work if you drop it on the 'Other' menu.10:53
JanCAmaranth : yeah, that seems to be the issue  :)10:53
JanCthat's another bug ?10:54
Amaranthjust the way the menu system works10:54
Amaranthother is for things the menu system couldn't sort into anything else10:54
Amaranthanyway, your busted gedit moved?10:54
Amaranthand stayed moved in smeg?10:55
Amaranthif so, restart gnome-panel and see if it matches smeg10:55
JanCmoved & restarted & still at the same location10:56
JanCnow restarting gnome-panel10:56
Amaranthping me when you find out11:01
JanCAmaranth : one didn't get moved11:01
Amaranthwhich one?11:01
Amaranththe one you mangled?11:02
JanCI can't see...11:02
JanCthey are all listed as "Tekst-editor" in the menu  ;-)11:02
Amaranththe one you mangled didn't get moved11:02
Amaranthwhich means your patch won't do it11:02
Amaranthi'll look at how libgnome-menu handles it after i wake up11:03
JanCAmaranth : where are changes saved ?11:04
Amaranth~/.config/menus/applications.menu ~/.local/share/desktop-directories/ ~/.local/share/applications/11:05
Lathiatsounds like a bundle of fun11:05
JanCah, forgot about .config11:05
Lathiati am unenvious11:05
JanCAmaranth : maybe files with bad filenames should just be ignored ?11:07
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Amaranthnot if the menu doesn't ignore them11:07
JanCdoes the menu spec have a spec for translating impossible filenames ?  :)11:08
JanCso this is undefined behaviour...   :-/11:10
JanC DesktopFileID is something internal from python-xdg, nothing from the menu-spec ?11:12
Amaranthno, it's in the menu spec11:21
Amaranthit's pretty goofy, actually11:27
Amaranth<Filename> takes a DesktopFileID11:27
bob2oh, wow, there're x40 tablets now11:27
Amaranthwhich is generally just the filename but it might have a prefix on it depending on where it came from or other xml in the menu11:28
Amaranthbob2: slashdot beat you to it by about 2 weeks :)11:28
bob2I dont read slashdot11:28
bob2they look kinda arse, tho11:29
Amaranthyeah, and you probably can't drop them from a two-story window onto concrete :)11:29
JanCAmaranth : then you can't fix this11:29
AmaranthJanC: sure i can, i just have to use the same cheap hack libgnome-menu/glib uses11:29
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ogra_hmm, we have no mediawiki package ? 11:30
=== ogra_ cries
JanCAmaranth : they don't implement this11:31
JanCthe entry is available in the menu11:31
AmaranthJanC: they must, you said your mangled gedit showed up11:31
JanCbut when you click it, it says it can't find it  :)11:31
Burgundaviaok, this is cool --> http://myscreen.org11:31
AmaranthJanC: file a bug in gnome's bugzilla against libgnome-menu11:32
Amaranthlet them decide what to do about it before 2.12 so i can make smeg match11:32
Amaranthoh, and please CC alleykat@gmail.com11:34
=== Amaranth goes to bed
JanCI'll go to bed after filing the bug too, have to get up early...   :-/11:35
Mezis ubuntu doing a slang2 transition?12:02

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