[01:22] <seb128> jdub: l10n list? You are doing it now? I've the feeling it's going to while for a long time after reading your mail :p
[01:23] <jp_> wow, muine sux as package :/ I got millions of errors and segmenations faults :) tseng ;)
[01:33] <daniels> doko: it causes problems when linking sometimes
[01:36] <mjg59> usplash actually does useful stuff now
[01:36] <mjg59> I'll try to get a tarball up in the morning
[01:37] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, you mean there is actually work being done on usplash?
[01:37] <Nafallo> mjg59: does it support 16:10? :-)
[01:38] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, it'd better ;)
[01:41] <mjg59> It'll use640x480 in 16 ccolours on x86. This is non-negotiable.
[01:42] <mjg59> HiddenWolf: Well, my laptop currently uses it while booting, so yes...
[01:42] <mjg59> A few things to sort out yet, though
[01:43] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, Will it actionally be in Breezy?
[01:44] <Nafallo> mjg59: no amd64 in other words :-P
[01:44] <mjg59> Should be
[01:44] <mjg59> Nafallo: The same on amd64
[01:44] <mjg59> On PPC, it should look nicer
[01:44] <Nafallo> baah
[01:45] <Nafallo> then the artwork team has to do something that looks great both on 4:3 and 16:10 ;-)
[01:45] <Gnobody> are you talking about usplash?
[01:46] <HiddenWolf> mjg59, why does it look better on ppc?
[01:46] <Nafallo> Gnobody: indeed
[01:46] <mjg59> Because PPC has offb
[01:46] <infinity> HiddenWolf : Because PPC has video init in the firmware.
[01:46] <mjg59> Whereas we're stuck with vga16fb on x86
[01:47] <mjg59> (if we want suspend/resume to work)
[01:47] <tseng> jp_: +1 funny
[01:50] <Gnobody> I hope it is black & white because if they try to add colours it will look fugly
[01:50] <mjg59> Mm? 
[01:50] <mjg59> It's eays enough to do an attractive 16 colour image
[01:51] <daniels> 640x480x16 is the only thing that's guaranteed to work
[01:51] <Gnobody> ouch
[01:52] <daniels> at least, if it doesn't work, you're justified in stabbing your laptop manufacturer in the eye
[01:52] <Gnobody> but most hardware can do higher res/colour FBs 
[01:52] <daniels> in theory, yes
[01:52] <daniels> in reality, you need to work out exactly *how*
[01:52] <mjg59> Gnobody: Yes. But not if you want suspend/resume support.
[01:52] <daniels> the logic for this is too complex to put into a tiny image-displayer
[01:53] <infinity> Gnobody : I don't recall anyone complaining about the 640x480x16 Win32 boot screens ovre the years.
[01:53] <Gnobody> yeah but it's windows; everything is a second grade hack
[01:54] <Gnobody> and XP is 4 years old
[01:54] <tseng> so are many pcs
[01:54] <infinity> It's a boot screen, not the desktop.
[01:54] <Gnobody> it's not a big deal
[01:54] <Gnobody> I probably wont use a splash
[01:54] <daniels> if the boot screen is up for any length of time, then we've failed anyway
[01:55] <Gnobody> I like my kernel messages, they scare n00bs away
[01:55] <Nafallo> hehe. like xorg.
[01:55] <infinity> Hey, would you look at that?... xorg is in sync on amd64 again.
[01:55] <tseng> infinity: oh dude
[01:55] <mdke> sometimes I come across users who report dependency errors with libraries when using backports. How can I report these? do backports have a bug area?
[01:55] <Gnobody> does xorg work by default in breezy yet?
[01:55] <tseng> infinity: did you look at my gtk-sharp2 x86 segfaults
[01:55] <mdke> malone?
[01:56] <infinity> tseng : Yes, but I have no satisfactory answer for you yet.  I'll look harder in a bit.
[01:56] <jp_> can somebody update to th new sticky notes? it rocks :)
[01:56] <infinity> tseng : How on earth that tool segfaults at all is a bit of a mystery, though.  Seems rather fragile.
[01:56] <tseng> infinity: thanks. it breaks other packages
[01:56] <tseng> eh it doesnt segfault in my chroot
[01:57] <tseng> or on the other buildd's
[01:57] <infinity> By "other", you mean "other non-i386", right?
[01:57] <tseng> yes, but my pbuilder is x86
[01:57] <infinity> It does die on all 3 i386 buildds the same.
[01:57] <tseng> so, whats the difference between pbuilder and sbuild chroot
[01:58] <infinity> I can grab you a list of installed packages.
[01:58] <elmo> eh, pbuilder vs. sbuilder isn't going to cause a segfault
[01:58] <tseng> elmo: exactly.
[01:58] <elmo> it's far more likely to be what's installed/not installed, versions or the kernel
[01:58] <tseng> *baffle*
[01:58] <elmo> tseng: that's hardly the only difference
[01:58] <infinity> Beyond that, not much.  /proc mounted (or not), kernel versions.
[01:58] <seth_k> mdke: backports bugs go on the forums I think
[01:59] <infinity> elmo : Thanks for reviving amd64, BTW.
[01:59] <tseng> well, ive tested it to be sure that it doesnt segfault on missing proc
[01:59] <tseng> it dies spectacuarly
[01:59] <tseng> but its not a segfault
[01:59] <elmo> infinity: no prob
[02:00] <Gnobody> does xorg work by default in breezy yet?
[02:00] <elmo> infinity: but we need to kill one of them at some point this week with the breezy kernel
[02:00] <Jimbob> Gnobody: Works for Me(tm)
[02:00] <mdke> seth_k, ok i'm writing there
[02:00] <infinity> elmo : Fine by me.  The backlog will be dead within another few hours, at this rate.  At that point, you can have one for the rest of the week. :)
[02:00] <elmo> infinity: since "breezy kernel doesn't survive as a buildd" is a teh suck of bugs
[02:01] <Gnobody> did you have create a bunch symlinks and hack the crap out of you xorg.conf?
[02:01] <Gnobody> jimbob
[02:01] <daniels> infinity: in sync on amd64 -> broken for EVERYONE.  whoohoo!
[02:01] <infinity> elmo : We could dedicate the breezy kernel test to a single buildd doing breezy-test builds, killing two birds with one stone.  Heavy buildd useage, and breezy-test.
[02:02] <elmo> infinity: yah
[02:02] <Nafallo> daniels: haha! I wont update then ;-)
[02:02] <infinity> daniels : Fair's fair.
[02:02] <daniels> ARGH LIBTOOL SMASH
[02:03] <Nafallo> hehe. I wonder if my neighboors here my laughing in the dark ;)
[02:03] <daniels> elmo: thanks for fixing them, all the same
[02:04] <Nafallo> indeed. thanx elmo :-).
[02:04] <infinity> Gnobody : Not for about 3 or 4 days.
[02:04] <Gnobody> why 3 or 4 days?
[02:05] <infinity> Gnobody : If you like pretty graphical thingees, anyway.
[02:05] <Gnobody> you mean X?
[02:05] <infinity> That'd be the one.
[02:05] <Gnobody> ahh it's still broken
[02:05] <Gnobody> ?
 infinity: in sync on amd64 -> broken for EVERYONE.  whoohoo!
[02:05] <HiddenWolf> Gnobody, I'd think so
[02:05] <Gnobody> who needs X when you can have bitchx and links2
[02:05] <crimsun> elmo: please pull wxwidgets2.6 from experimental
[02:05] <Gnobody> lol
[02:07] <elmo> crimsun: no, there's something like that in NEW already
[02:08] <crimsun> elmo: err, oops. Thanks!
[02:08] <opi> hey guys
[02:08] <elmo> crimsun: and doko wants it to go in main or some such crack, so it's getting bounced up the chain
[02:08] <opi> anyone has a WAP enabled mobile toy? ;)
[02:08] <crimsun> elmo: ah, well he knows better than I do. :)
[02:08] <opi> I've just hacked a WAP Planet.ubuntu-pl.org feed ;)
[02:13] <Nafallo> hmm. updates. a week of them :-P
[02:14] <tseng> elmo: did you get my mails for gmime2.1 and cli-common from unstable?
[02:14] <tseng> elmo: no rush, just have trouble with loosing mail
[02:14] <elmo> tseng: yes, already done
[02:14] <tseng> thanks :)
[02:21] <Burgundavia> can I pull crackish ideas like Yast2 from IdeaPool ?
[02:22] <tseng> you can comment on their high level of crackfulness
[02:22] <Burgundavia> ok
[02:22] <mdke> i thought crackish ideas were your speciality burgs
[02:22] <Burgundavia> there is a difference between good crackish and bad crackish
[02:22] <tseng> im not sure if its fair for a docteam member to arbitrarily axe feature requests
[02:23] <tseng> not as a slap, just saying.
[02:23] <Burgundavia> ok
[02:24] <tseng> i seem to recall sitting around with silbs and daniel laughing at most of the idea pool
[02:24] <tseng> but not really having a good feeling about actively blowing people off
[02:24] <tseng> its just a wiki page
[02:24] <Burgundavia> there are some gems there
[02:25] <Burgundavia> and if you read through what people want and not what they say, you might be able to do something
[02:25] <tseng> does it include our friend with the mask?
[02:25] <Burgundavia> the logo idea?
[02:25] <mdke> that guy is working hard on his page
[02:25] <mdke> :/
[02:25] <mdke> strange idea
[02:25] <daniels> nothing if not enthusiastic
[02:25] <Burgundavia> his art isn't bad
[02:26] <tseng> daniels: best. changelog. ever.
[02:26] <mdke> point him at ArtTeam
[02:26] <Nafallo> tseng++
[02:26] <tseng> mdke: he is on the mailing list. cant miss him.
[02:27] <daniels> where's scott when I need him?
[02:35] <daniels> cybersaga writes "ZDNet reports: "The open source Firefox browser and Thunderbird e-mail client will be updated for the second time in a week due to code changes that have unintentionally stopped some third-party extensions from functioning correctly." More details at MozillaZine. Firefox and Thunderbird versions 1.0.6 and Mozilla 1.7.10 are on their way."
[02:35] <daniels> WHEN WILL HOARY HAVE 1.0.6 OMG
[02:36] <bob2> it'd be cool if security fixes stopped breaking extebsions
[02:36] <bddebian> WHEN YOU BUILD IT :-)
[02:36] <infinity> My extebsions work great.
[02:36] <bob2> that's because they're made out of ice tea
[02:38] <bob2> ULTIMATE ice ta
[02:41] <daniels> ullit
[02:41] <daniels> er, uliit
[02:44] <Riddell> daniels: what package have iceauth been moved to?
[02:45] <daniels> Riddell: i assume it used to be in xbase-clients
[02:45] <daniels> Riddell: it'll be in a package called 'iceauth' when everything's shuffled around
[02:48] <Riddell> daniels: ok, I'll look forward to that then
[02:48] <daniels> won't we all
[02:51] <infinity> daniels : DO we get to un-transition GLU today?
[02:51] <daniels> infinity: yeah
[02:51] <daniels> infinity: shortly after breakfast
[02:51] <daniels> i'm just trying to fix the mechanics of the xlibs transition
[02:52] <Nafallo> hmm, we might want to rebuild network-manager to remove libiw27 :-)
[02:52] <Nafallo> or is that motu now?
[02:53] <infinity> Smack thom.
[02:53] <infinity> It's his baby currently.
[02:53] <Nafallo> thom: we might want to rebuild network-manager to remove libiw27 :-)
[02:55] <infinity> daniels : Did libXrender.la wander off to neverneverland recently?
[02:56] <tseng> daniels: oh, should we axe dbus-mono?
[02:57] <daniels> tseng: yeah, totally
[02:57] <daniels> infinity: yes, by choice
[02:57] <tseng> daniels: someone bothered me to update/fix it. funny
[02:57] <tseng> elmo: can we axe dbus-mono source?
[02:57] <infinity> daniels : Feh, so arts needs an update to stop looking for it.
[02:57] <tseng> elmo: built by dbus proper now.
[02:58] <infinity> Riddell : arts has enough of a KDE heritage that I can pawn this one off on you, right? :)
[02:59] <Nafallo> wth! firefox is in swedish :-P
[02:59] <Nafallo> how did that happen?
[03:01] <daniels> infinity: it's probably libqt-mt-dev, I'd guess
[03:01] <Riddell> infinity: that's weird, qt should have been recompiled so it wouldn't pick up libXrender.la
[03:02] <infinity> Riddell : Would that have broken if qt and xrender were built out of order?
[03:02] <Riddell> infinity: quite possible
[03:02] <infinity> Riddell : ie: Did you have strict enough build-deps and a deterministic debian/rules, or were you just counting on the archive being consistent? :)
[03:03] <daniels> or qt and xcursor, or qt and xft
[03:03] <infinity> Riddell : If the build-deps weren't strict enough, please make them stricter (for the benefit of bootstrapping) and reupload.
[03:03] <Riddell> infinity: not sure, I did have quite strict build deps because lamont was looking over my sholder, but could well have missed one
[03:03] <infinity> Riddell : Cause qt is definitely up to date on amd64, and arts is failing on Xrender.
[03:04] <Riddell> I'll build it on condordia and see what's up
[03:04] <Riddell> or can I?  condordia would need it's chroot updated
[03:04] <infinity> It would.  Good thing elmo's awake.
[03:04] <Riddell> elmo: could you update concordia's chroot please
[03:04] <Nafallo> infinity: amd64 is up2date already?
[03:05] <daniels> Nafallo: a week's backlog is nothing
[03:05] <daniels> our buildds are world-endingly fast
[03:05] <infinity> Nafallo : Everything but a few FTBFS issues and the entire QT/KDE chain (which is stuck on this issue)
[03:05] <infinity> Nafallo : Otherwise, amd64 is back up to speed.
[03:05] <Riddell> who looks after the cdimage torrents?
[03:06] <Nafallo> infinity: yey! :-)
[03:06] <Nafallo> Riddell: kamion I guess
[03:06] <Nafallo> daniels: seems so. and btw. you're soon to be blamed for waking up my neighboors. nice blogentry :-).
[03:07] <Nafallo> infinity: evolution for example. I'll try to build it locally :-)
[03:07] <Riddell> Kamion: I've had a complaint that the hoary kubuntru powerpc DVD isn't seeded
[03:08] <Riddell> elmo: please install libxcursor-dev too
[03:08] <Riddell> on condordia chroot
[03:09] <infinity> Nafallo : I'm going to kick back all the failures once the new gcc-4.0 is built.
[03:10] <Nafallo> infinity: ahh, oki :-)
[03:10] <infinity> Nafallo : So, anything that's still failed in another 12+ hours is probably worth looking at.
[03:11] <Riddell> elmo: also libmysqlclient12-dev on concordia
[03:11] <Nafallo> infinity: mostly I want my calenders back or I'm gonna miss that CC-meeting ;-)
[03:11] <daniels> Nafallo: i try
[03:12] <infinity> Calendaring is for the weak.
[03:12] <infinity> Or the week, if you're into puns.
[03:12] <Nafallo> hehe
[03:32] <infinity> doko : I will buy you a new car if you split the non-system compilers out of the gcc source package.
[03:33] <daniels> infinity: sleep? it's only 1134!
[03:33] <Lathiat> 0933!
[03:33] <Lathiat> and i havent slept yet
[03:33] <daniels> i can prove that western australia doesn't exist
[03:34] <Lathiat> how so
[03:34] <Lathiat> that said, if you prove it to me
[03:34] <Lathiat> you would not have proved it, since i would no longer exist and never witnessed your proof
[03:34] <infinity> daniels : Well, I was up all night...
[03:35] <infinity> daniels : But mostly, libjava is just mind-numbingly dull to watch build.  (you should try it on m68k... no, really)
[03:36] <daniels> infinity: vancouver!
[03:37] <bob2> hahaha
[03:41] <daniels> wow
[03:41] <daniels> there's a flag called ToolkitStringsABIOptions in imake
[03:42] <daniels> which passes the options to makestrs, which is used in the libXt build
[03:42] <daniels> this is -intelabi everywhere
[03:42] <daniels> even on Solaris/SPARC
[03:42] <daniels> even though there are things like, y'know, -sparcabi
[03:42] <daniels> GAR
[03:47] <Lathiat> "Studies have shown that grilled cheese on toast is 97% better than libtool"
[03:48] <luis_> don't most people think that grilled shit on toast would be 97% better than libtool?
[03:48] <tritium> mmm, did somebody say grilled shit on toast?
[03:49] <Lathiat> luis_: yes but its funny :)
[04:25] <infinity> Feh.  gcc-4.0 is FTBFS trying to link Xrender.la too.
[04:25] <infinity> Brought in by god knows what.
[04:25] <daniels> infinity: cairo
[04:25] <infinity> Was the last cairo upload not meant to fix that?
[04:26] <infinity> (Which I'm building against)
[04:26] <daniels> oh.  might be something else, then.
[04:26] <daniels> infinity: lesstif?
[04:27] <infinity> cairo could have just been built out of order...
[04:27] <infinity> What's the fastest way to find the culprit?...
[04:27] <daniels> infinity: grep -r libXrender.la /usr/lib
[04:27] <daniels> or /usr/lib/*.la /usr/lib/**/*.la
[04:27] <daniels> i can never remember the syntax for **
[04:28] <infinity> Xft, cairo, gtk-2.0/2.4.0/immodules/*
[04:28] <infinity> Yay.
[04:29] <daniels> cairo probably needs a stricter b-d on xft
[04:29] <daniels> alternately, no-one in the world should be shipping .la files
[04:29] <infinity> And what's Xft's excuse? :)
[04:29] <daniels> as they're not useful on linux
[04:30] <daniels> xft probably needs a rebuild as well, though I thought riddell did one
[04:30] <infinity> Again, probably not tight enough build-deps.
[04:30] <infinity> amd64 being down for a week likely exposed a few issues in that area, since I'm sure things weren't built in the order expected.
[04:30] <infinity> If pure rebuilds will fix this, I'll just upload them in the right order again.
[04:31] <infinity> Any ETA on xbase-clients becoming installable again?
[04:32] <daniels> remind me again which binary packages are missing
[04:32] <daniels> if xhost, xdpyinfo, xsetmode and xsetpointer, I'm angling for tonight
[04:32] <daniels> but, uh, the package will be somewhat empty
[04:34] <infinity> Those 4 and xrandr.
[04:36] <infinity> And I don't much care if the package is green with pink polkadots, so long as it installs and the things that indirectly build-dep on it start building again. :)
[04:37] <daniels> the former, yes
[04:37] <daniels> the latter, not so much
[04:37] <infinity> Is there a minimum version of libxrender-dev I should be setting these build-deps to?
[04:37] <infinity> They're currently unversioned.  Naughty.
[04:38] <daniels> 1:0.9.0-1
[04:56] <daniels> elmo: when NEWing stuff I upload, please put it into main unless I explicitly say otherwise
[04:57] <daniels> elmo: i'm about to upload a bunch of new source packages to replace xbase-clients
[04:57] <lamont> mdz: ping
[04:59] <infinity> Changed-By: Adam Conrad <adconrad@localhost.localdomain>
[04:59] <infinity> Go me.
[04:59] <infinity> I'm so asleep at the wheel.
[05:00] <bddebian> Heh
[05:00] <daniels> yeah, I've uploaded a few from Daniel Stone <daniels@brainfreeze.fooishbar.org>
[05:02] <infinity> Alright, libxft, libcairo, and gtk+2.0 fixed.  Hopefully, that'll do it.
[05:03] <infinity> Hrm.  Uploads from non-whitelisted addresses get listed as "From: Ubuntu Installer"... Cute.
[05:03] <infinity> Guess that hides my idiocy from plain view of the mailing list, at least.  <cough>
[05:05] <daniels> heh
[05:12] <schweeb> infinity: I noticed :p
[05:12] <bddebian> Anyone know why zeiberbude wouldn't be able to find -lqt ?
[05:14] <zwnj> i cannot build source packages with dpkg-deb -b.  any introdustoin/howto?
[05:15] <bddebian> Use debuild or dpkg-buildpackage? :-)
[05:16] <zwnj> bddebian: uhu, thanks
[05:17] <zwnj> i'm new to ubuntu/debian.  i used to use redhat/fedora for 5 years... but no deb-based distro
[05:17] <bddebian> Ah, well welcome
[05:17] <bddebian> Sorry to hear about those 5 years of wasting your life. ;-)
[05:18] <daniels> bddebian: because -lqt has been deprecated for years
[05:18] <bddebian> daniels: What is it now?  -lqtthreads?
[05:19] <daniels> try apt-cache search
[05:19] <bddebian> Search for what?
[05:20] <daniels> libqt, maybe?
[05:20] <zwnj> bddebian: ;)
[05:21] <bddebian> I realize that it is libqt3 now but you can't do -lqt3 can you?
[05:21] <daniels> no, you can't.  keep didding.
[05:21] <daniels> digging, also.
[05:21] <zwnj> bddebian: btw, i just started to read Redhat RPM Guide and dpkg's manuales to build packages... of course i try to build my RPMs on ubuntu ;)
[05:22] <bddebian> zwnj: Are you building for others or yourself?  If you just want to install, try alien
[05:23] <zwnj> bddebian: we develop some Persian localized utils, and i want package them in rpm and deb for Iranian users
[05:23] <bddebian> Ah, cool
[05:24] <zwnj> bddebian: just got familiar with alien yesterday...
[05:24] <bddebian> daniels: Well my only options in /usr/lib are libqtthreads and libqt-mt.  Am I going about this the wrong way?
[05:25] <zwnj> is anyone here familiar with gedit's plugin system?  who is the package manager of gnome stuff?
[05:26] <bddebian> zwnj: In Ubuntu, there is a Gnome team I believe.  As I understand Ubuntu, there is no 1 maintainer for a particular package
[05:26] <bddebian> But don't quote me, I'm learning too :-)
[05:28] <zwnj> i want to know how i should package a gedit plugin... because it's build system for plugins is a little complicated
[05:28] <zwnj> is anyone from gnome team here right now?
[05:30] <bddebian> daniels: -lqt is single threaded but all the build depends use libqt-mt.  Why would they link against the single threaded version?
[05:36] <daniels> bddebian: exactly
[05:36] <bddebian> Will I cause a problem if I use -lqt-mt ?
[05:37] <Amaranth> holy crap it's been 8 hours and blam hasn't died
[05:37] <Amaranth> that's a new record
[05:40] <bddebian> Fux, I cleaned my build-tree. :-(
[05:43] <Amaranth> if i try to read it, it will die
[05:43] <Amaranth> it's taunting me
[05:46] <bddebian> Even though it pained you, thanks daniels  :-)
[05:50] <davyd> someone may know this
[05:51] <davyd> why is Xscreensaver in Fedora Xinerama aware, but Xscreensaver in Ubuntu not?
[05:51] <davyd> is it a compile time option?
[05:59] <daniels> i'd imagine so
[05:59] <daniels> just needs a build-depends on libxinerama-dev
[05:59] <daniels> i think ogra maintains xscreensavetr
[05:59] <Amaranth> daniels: libtool doesn't like you?
[05:59] <daniels> Amaranth: it despises me and everything I stand for
[06:00] <Amaranth> yeah, good luck with that
[06:03] <davyd> seems that might be the case
[06:05] <davyd> go davy, it's your birthday!
[06:08] <Amaranth> hrm, i don't think i want to mess with using bonobo to talk to rhythmbox
[06:08] <Amaranth> i was looking at some python code to do it, but it has a method named 'unfuckBonobo' so i think i'll forget about it
[06:08] <bob2> bddebian: install ccache
[06:09] <bddebian> bob2: ??
[06:09] <bob2> bddebian: ccache > you (apt-cache show ccache)
[06:09] <bddebian> Ah cool, thanks
[06:10] <bddebian> OK, I'm now trying to patch this sucker with cdbs-edit-patch but I don't get a Makefile and that is what I need to patch?? :-(
[06:11] <davyd> has someone broken gdb on breezy?
[06:14] <luis_> worked here this morning, more or less
[06:14] <davyd> seems to work in 64bit land
[06:14] <davyd> but not 32-bit land
[06:27] <fabbione> morning
[06:28] <bddebian> Hello fabbione 
[06:30] <trs80> hey davyd
[06:30] <davyd> now... I wish I knew why I don't have GCC in my chroot
[06:30] <trs80> I'd ask about my iowait problem, but it's pub lunch time
[06:31] <davyd> mmm, lunch
[06:31] <trs80> just for reference, breaking the raid 1 mirror didn't affect iowait times
[06:40] <calc> anyone know when thunderbird is going to be recompiled for new c++ ?
[06:40] <Amaranth> so, what's the magic command to make xlibs install? :)
[06:40] <Amaranth> or, does anyone have xlib 6.8.2-36?
[06:40] <calc> Amaranth: probably lots of holds
[06:41] <calc> i have 6.8.2-42 installed
[06:41] <Amaranth> how?
[06:41] <daniels> infinity: ?
[06:41] <Amaranth> i know i have to do something to the postinst script, but i don't know where it is or what to do to it
[06:41] <calc> i also have ~ 9 holds currently to be able to upgrade
[06:41] <calc> i didn't do anything special
[06:48] <seth_k> graah, anyone have any clue how to get my timezone back to normal after getting hit by this bug (https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9207) ?
[06:49] <seth_k>  /etc/timezone even says (correctly) "America/Chicago", but I'm stuck at GMT and don't know how to make it go back
[06:50] <Amaranth> yay, fixed it
[06:51] <Amaranth> i needed to recreate /etc/X11/xkb/types/ as an empty dir so postinst could remove it
[06:51] <infinity> daniels : ?
[06:53] <daniels> infinity: when are we transitioning?
[06:54] <daniels> infinity: do you want to start at, say, 5?
[06:54] <daniels> infinity: or do you need to crash?
[06:54] <daniels> i'd like to do some more upgrade testing
[06:55] <Amaranth> transitioning?
[06:55] <daniels> Amaranth: libglu needs to go back from c2 -> ligblu1
[06:55] <Amaranth> oh yeah
[06:56] <Amaranth> because even though it's C++ it exports a C interface or something like that
[06:56] <Amaranth> fun
[06:56] <daniels> yeah
[06:56] <daniels> the fact it's written in C++ is an implementation detail
[06:56] <daniels> not the ABI
[06:59] <infinity> daniels : I'd LIKE to crash, but the reality is that I have to head out in an hour for family obligation stuff.
[07:00] <daniels> infinity: tomorrow?
[07:01] <infinity> Yeah, tomorrow's fine.
[07:01] <infinity> I may even have all this Xrender mess sorted by then.
[07:02] <infinity> (just did another upload)
[07:02] <daniels> ok, sounds cool
[07:16] <pitti> Morning
[07:19] <pitti> Riddell: thanks for the qca-tls report; did you check for debian and upstream bugs? can you mention the status of those? as well as the security history?
[07:20] <fabbione> hey pitti
[07:20] <pitti> Good morning fabbione
[07:22] <fabbione> pitti: before you start the firefox mess, should we review a few things?
[07:22] <pitti> sure
[07:22] <fabbione> pitti: perfect
[07:22] <fabbione> let's start with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportRhCluster
[07:23] <fabbione> point 1) the entire suite is in main/universe
[07:23] <pitti> neat
[07:23] <fabbione> the libdlm transition for clvm (universe, source lvm2) has been done right away
[07:24] <fabbione> 4) there is a also a GUI now.
[07:24] <fabbione> Regarding QA the upstream situation has been changing a lot
[07:24] <fabbione> they did clean up their mess
[07:24] <fabbione> in terms of how they use CVS
[07:24] <fabbione> and tons of bug fixes made it to the STABLE branch
[07:24] <pitti> what's the package name again?
[07:25] <fabbione> redhat-cluster-suite (source and meta)
[07:25] <fabbione> now it's also possible to compile modules for custom kernels + we provide them by default
[07:26] <fabbione> pitti: as you can see from their bugzilla all the CRI bugs have been addresses
[07:26] <fabbione> addressed
[07:27] <pitti> looks really good
[07:27] <pitti> GUI is sensible?
[07:27] <fabbione> so even if you already approved it, i am going to ask for official inclusion in main and see the packages
[07:27] <fabbione> pitti: yup and it works very well
[07:27] <pitti> cool
[07:27] <fabbione> pitti: all our packages have been tested by upstream
 they worked beautifully
 the meta-package was great. Fedora should have something like that
[07:28] <fabbione> one of the upstream comments testing on ppc :)
[07:30] <fabbione> (oh and they fixed the config file permission problem rigth away ;))
[07:33] <pitti> I did these updates at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportRhCluster
[07:33] <pitti> ... if it ever finishes, it's so slow...
[07:35] <pitti> hrmpf, $)(/)$ wlan card
[07:35] <pitti> fabbione: <pitti> I did these updates at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportRhCluster
[07:35] <pitti> fabbione: did you say anything after "<fabbione> one of the upstream comments testing on ppc :)"?
[07:38] <fabbione> nope
[07:38] <fabbione> pitti: what wireless?
[07:39] <pitti> fabbione: sitting at my laptop in the kitchen now, gf is still asleep :-)
[07:39] <fabbione> pitti: if it's the ipw2x00 i will have a fix in the next upload
[07:39] <pitti> fabbione: nevermind, that device always breaks after it gets hot, but it's the only one that is registered in my wlan here
[07:40] <fabbione> hehe ok
[07:40] <pitti> fabbione: I have another one (same model) which works fine (just not here since it's not registered)
[07:45] <sivang> morning pitti , fabbione 
[07:45] <pitti> Hi sivang 
[07:45] <sivang> pitti: where can I read about our cluster packaging and infrastructure ?
[07:46] <Mithrandir>  /win 31
[07:46] <sivang> (the one I see you too are so hard working at :-) )
[07:46] <Mithrandir> argh
[07:46] <fabbione> sivang: you want to talk with me about that
[07:47] <sivang> fabbione: ah , ok , basically everything is borrowed from fedora / RH (I recall you told me they wrot the GUI control tool)
[07:49] <fabbione> sivang: RH..
[07:49] <fabbione> fedora is no upstream
[07:49] <fabbione> yes.. they wrote a gui that is already in universe
[07:50] <fabbione> pitti: speaking of which.. we should move the GUI to main to
[07:50] <fabbione> pitti: it's written in python..
[07:50] <pitti> fabbione: right, the packages are fine and I already approved the stuff
[07:50] <fabbione> pitti: ok thanks.
[07:50] <fabbione> FYI: the GUI is called system-config-cluster
[08:01] <sivang> fabbione:  system-config-cluster: Depends: redhat-cluster-suite but it is not going to be installed
[08:05] <sivang> hmm, seems something's wrong with apt-file pkg, looks like it should depend on curl, but it doesn't
[08:06] <fabbione> sivang: yes i know. i need to upload a new kernel or you need to rebuild the cluster modules
[08:08] <sivang> fabbione: ah well, it's no rush , I will try install it when you finish :-)
[08:09] <fabbione> sivang: it is finished, that's only the result of a trick Depends: / Provides: to ensure that at least a kernel with the cluster modules is installed...
[08:09] <fabbione> and to complete the trick i need to upload a new kernel
[08:10] <sivang> fabbione: I'm glad to know it prevents you from just installing the supportive stuff when you don't have a comptabile kernel.
[08:10] <sivang> :-)
[08:32] <sivang> fabbione: Does it use the mosix kernel for grid computing, or is a cluster something different? :)
[08:32] <fabbione> sivang: it's a HA cluster. mosix is high performance
[08:32] <fabbione> they are 2 different implementation
[08:33] <fabbione> the RH cluster aims for High Availability (HA)
[08:33] <sivang> fabbione: so basically, it replecates one node to the other, to be able to respond even if some of them break?
[08:34] <Treenaks> sivang: basically, yes
[08:34] <fabbione> sivang: not really..
[08:34] <Treenaks> no?
[08:34] <Treenaks> isn't the goal of HA basically "Little or no downtime and/or corruption"
[08:34] <fabbione> HA does not replace.. it switches services across the nodes so that service foo is always available
[08:35] <fabbione> Treenaks: yes, but it doesn't replicate the nodes
[08:35] <fabbione> or replace them
[08:35] <fabbione> the work is done at service level
[08:35] <Treenaks> fabbione: no, the nodes should do that themselves
[08:35] <fabbione> Treenaks: ??????
[08:36] <fabbione> the HA cluster takes care of migrating services from a failed node to a working one
[08:36] <Treenaks> fabbione: well, what you said.. the different services shuold take care of replication, some other piece of magic takes care of the failover
[08:36] <fabbione> Treenaks: exactly.. replication is something different
[08:37] <sivang> fabbione: that's interesting, so we basically have autonomic nodes (as each one is a seperate box) which all run the same services, and there a kind of a "switchboard" to find open slots per services (on each machine) and delegates the request there?
[08:37] <fabbione> sivang: no, that's a load balancer
[08:37] <fabbione> sivang: let say you need service foo (apache for example)
[08:37] <fabbione> to be always up 100% of the time
[08:38] <fabbione> node A and node B ( just to keep it simple )
[08:38] <fabbione> the HA cluster will make a fake node C, masking A and B
[08:38] <fabbione> (sort of)
[08:39] <fabbione> so if apache is running on node A and node A fails, the service will automatically be switched to B
[08:39] <fabbione> without you even noticing
[08:39] <fabbione> this is a very SIMPLE example
[08:39] <Treenaks> even in the middle of a request?
[08:39] <fabbione> but there are tons of consideration behind doing something like that
[08:39] <fabbione> Treenaks: no, that's too apps specific
[08:40] <fabbione> but:
[08:40] <fabbione> a) you don't lose the service
[08:40] <fabbione> b) a shared cluster FS will not lose consistency
[08:40] <fabbione> so even if effectly you lose one transaction in the middle of the switch..
[08:41] <fabbione> you don't lose the service
[08:41] <sivang> fabbione: and data is consistent due to (b)
[08:41] <fabbione> sivang: exactly
[08:41] <sivang> wow, cool
[08:41] <fabbione> but you need a shared storage device between the 2 node
[08:42] <fabbione> using local disk is pointless in a cluster :)
[08:43] <\sh> emc is overload but a netapp is nice for those things
[08:43] <\sh> good morning btw
[08:46] <sivang> you can just as well build a custom shared storage with linux, there a howto somewhere (can't recall where)
[08:48] <sivang> pitti: do you recall by heart the env vars that dch and other pkging tools use? i.e. for maintainer name and email, etc
[08:48] <pitti> sivang: DEBEMAIL="Sivan Green <sivan@green>"
[08:48] <fabbione> sivang: well in a cluster enviroment you try to use good hw ...
[08:48] <fabbione> sivang: like a redundant shared device
[08:49] <fabbione> and stuff like that
[08:49] <fabbione> fencing devices... remote controlled power swiches
[08:50] <sivang> fabbione: hmm, makes sense. No real benefit comes from a shared storage with 50% failing disks :-)
[08:50] <sivang> pitti: thx 
[08:51] <\sh> sivang: sometimes an expensive emc rack or some netapp heads with a couple of diskshelfs better then any selfmade solution
[09:00] <carlospc> Hello everybody, have you read in ubuntu-devel list the thread "GNOME panel and sudo"? I would like to know if this funcionality will be implemented
[09:01] <Burgundavia> carlospc, it is a google bounty and thus is quite likely
[09:01] <carlospc> Maybe i could help, does anyone knows if it's a goal? if so, how it's called?
[09:01] <sivang> pitti: is it ok to create patches with diff (talking about the configure patches) manually, and then concantate them into the one file debian/patch together with the code?
[09:01] <carlospc> Ouh, thanks Burgundavia
[09:01] <pitti> sivang: why not use something sensible like dbs-edit-patch or cdbs-edit-patch?
[09:02] <Burgundavia> carlospc, http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GnomePanelEnhancements
[09:02] <Burgundavia> Google SoC project. Assigned to Emmanuel Cornet ([MAILTO]  manu.cornet@gmail.com). See Spec for further details.
[09:02] <carlospc> Thanks in advance
[09:03] <sivang> pitti: hmm, since I want to avoid cdbs's diff against all file in the source dir, to avoid autofu trails from the other files created by it
[09:03] <pitti> sivang: just don't use autoreconf, use automake/autoconf manually
[09:05] <sivang> pitti: inside the cdbs-edit-patch "chroot" ?
[09:05] <pitti> sivang: it's not a chroot, but yes
[09:05] <sivang> pitti: how would you define it? :-)
[09:05] <pitti> sivang: it's pushd, nothing more
[09:07] <davyd> so is muine known to die on amd64?
[09:07] <Treenaks> mono is known weird
[09:17] <sivang> Treenaks: muine uses mono?
[09:18] <GNULinuxer> sivang: yes
[09:19] <sivang> GNULinuxer: as in to do music playing and other cpu bound stuff?
[09:25] <davyd> music playing is done via Gstreamer
[09:25] <davyd> so all of that is really in C
[09:26] <Treenaks> but don't tell the mono guys
[09:26] <sivang> hehe
[09:26] <sivang> why did I had a feeling? ;-)
[09:35] <pef> hello
[09:41] <Nermal> morning
[09:56] <trs80> so, does anyone have any ideas why my dual 3.4ghz xeon with 1gb of ram is spending 10-60% of its time in iowait?
[09:58] <trs80> (warty, 2.6.10, two 160gb seagate 7200.7s in raid 1, lvm on top of that, hp proliant dl360 g4 which has a intel 6300ESB sata controller using ata_piix)
[10:03] <{Seb}> hi guys
[10:03] <{Seb}> how is breezy looking - broken wise?
[10:03] <{Seb}> is X working again?
[10:03] <Burgundavia> sort of
[10:03] <davyd> oh boy
[10:03] <{Seb}> sort of?
[10:04] <fabbione> Kamion: ping?
[10:04] <Burgundavia> depends on box and archictecture
[10:04] <davyd> amd64 is broken
[10:04] <{Seb}> they both have ATI cards and they are both Intel x86
[10:04] <davyd> I had to build about 5 packages by hand
[10:05] <fabbione> {Seb}: these are #ubuntu questions.. you have been told millions of time by now
[10:05] <fabbione> trs80: stop running bonnie?
[10:06] <davyd> nice, rhythmbox has decided that non of my music is actually music
[10:06] <davyd> and muine doesn't start
[10:07] <trs80> fabbione: nope not running bonnie. breaking the raid 1 doesn't make a difference either
[10:07] <pitti> davyd: but you do have gstreamer plugins installed? (or, rather, didn't uninstall at least the ogg vorbis one)
[10:07] <Burgundavia> guys, this discussion belongs on #ubuntu
[10:07] <fabbione> trs80: i/o wait is highly dependend on what your box is doing.. it might as well be very normal
[10:08] <davyd> pitti: good call
[10:08] <pitti> davyd: gstreamer0.8-mad already helps a lot
[10:09] <trs80> fabbione: it's just serving mail, dns, mailman etc. actual cpu usage is 1% or so
[10:09] <davyd> pitti: yeah
[10:09] <fabbione> trs80: mail* is an I/O bottleneck...
[10:10] <fabbione> trs80: CPU usage != i/o wait
[10:10] <fabbione> or better.. that becomes true if there is no DMA
[10:10] <trs80> yeah, but a dual p3 733 was handling the same load faster
[10:10] <trs80> the disks are sata
[10:10] <fabbione> exactly
[10:10] <trs80> ?
[10:11] <fabbione> sata "has" DMA
[10:11] <fabbione> so that's not the problem
[10:12] <trs80> yeah
[10:12] <fabbione> trs80: i would monitor /proc/interrupts and see if there is a device that is sucking IRQ
[10:12] <fabbione> and stalling I/O
[10:12] <fabbione> if that's the case try to boot with irqpoll
[10:12] <fabbione> boot option i mean
[10:14] <trs80> 1000 timer int/s
[10:14] <davyd> that's sane
[10:14] <davyd> HZ on linux 2.6 is 1000
[10:14] <davyd> (on i386)
[10:15] <trs80> 200-400 libata int/s
[10:15] <fabbione> trs80: you need to check it for a long time...
[10:15] <fabbione> not just in a 10 minutes phase
[10:15] <fabbione> there might be processes that reises the I/O load
[10:15] <fabbione> and not always running
[10:15] <trs80> what's LOC in interrupts?
[10:20] <trs80> fabbione: I have things like 3 kjournald sitting in the D state
[10:21] <trs80> yeah, things are just sitting there, waiting for IO, not actually doing anything
[10:22] <trs80> the disks are barely pushing a few MB/s
[10:25] <fabbione> what FS?
[10:25] <trs80> ext3
[10:26] <fabbione> did you say warty + 2.6.10 ????
[10:26] <trs80> hoary
[10:26] <trs80> whatever 5.04 is, I always get the names mixed up
[10:26] <fabbione> ok
[10:27] <fabbione> trs80: if you the option i would try to boot with irqpoll
[10:27] <fabbione> not sure it will make any difference
[10:27] <fabbione> but it's defenitily worth a try
[10:27] <fabbione> 2.6.10 introduced a big IRQ routing change
[10:27] <fabbione> and not all drivers managed to be converted on time
[10:29] <pitti> Hey seb128
[10:29] <seb128> hi pitti 
[10:33] <Nermal> fabbione: any details ?
[10:33] <Nermal> just normal IRQ routing, or ACPI IRQ routing ?
[10:36] <fabbione> Nermal: normal IRQ
[10:36] <Nermal> ah
[10:40] <mdz> pitti: how is the bluetooth work going with Paolo?
[10:41] <pitti> mdz: that's mainly done with chmj, but last week Paolo just reported back, he just started coding
[10:41] <pitti> mdz: (he didn't have time before)
[10:42] <pitti> infinity: ping
[10:43] <chmj> mdz: I'm waiting to hear from him
[10:43] <mdz> chmj: how long have you been waiting?
[10:43] <JaneW> mdz: the Google guys on te whole seem fairly slow on the uptake (some are better than others though)
[10:44] <JaneW> mdz: one is totally MIA
[10:44] <chmj> mdz: since last week 
[10:44] <ogra> davyd, yes, it's a compile time option i have it enabled on my local build, will be in the next upload as soon as i'm ready with the new  lockscreen (needs code cleanup)
[10:44] <JaneW> mdz: a few look like shining stars :))
[10:44] <ogra> morning all
[10:44] <davyd> new lockscreen?
 why is Xscreensaver in Fedora Xinerama aware, but Xscreensaver in Ubuntu not?
[10:45] <JaneW> morning ogra :)
[10:45] <trs80> my xscreensaver at home from debian testing is xinerama aware ...
[10:45] <davyd> ogra: yeah, I remember asking about that
[10:45] <davyd> ogra: I was asking what kind of new lock screen?
[10:45] <davyd> similar to before
[10:46] <davyd> or that Xembed crack?
[10:46] <ogra> trs80, other X
[10:46] <ogra> davyd, ah
[10:46] <trs80> ogra: xf86 vs xorg?
[10:46] <ogra> davyd, no Xembed, a simple hack like hoary had, but a bit cooler
[10:46] <ogra> trs80, yes
[10:46] <davyd> ogra: ok
[10:46] <davyd> that Xembed solution is kinda clever
[10:47] <davyd> he was obviously thinking a little more outside the ballpark then Mesh and I were
[10:47] <ogra> but what i see here with gnome-screensaver is far from being ready....
[10:48] <ogra> (dunno if its a amd64 thing)
[10:48] <davyd> so much stuff appears to be
[10:48] <davyd> ogra: are you running amd64?
[10:48] <Kamion> Riddell: the torrent stuff is there on the cdimage backend machine, so I guess it's something wrong with torrent.ubuntu.com; you'll have to take that up with elmo
[10:49] <ogra> davyd, yes... 
[10:49] <Kamion> fabbione: pong
[10:49] <ogra> davyd, on a sh*tty acer laptop
[10:49] <davyd> ogra: do you know anything about chrooting a 32-bit set of libraries?
[10:49] <davyd> and specificially, why gdb doesn't seem to work
[10:49] <ogra> there are some docs on alioth afaik
[10:50] <davyd> about gdb being broken?
[10:50] <ogra> nope about chroots :)
[10:50] <ogra> on amd64
[10:50] <davyd> ok, well I have a chroot
[10:50] <davyd> using debootstrap and dchroot
[10:50] <davyd> and I've mount-binded things into it
[10:51] <davyd> that all seemed fairly easy
[10:51] <davyd> stuff seems to generally work... but gdb doesn't
[10:51] <ogra> davyd, Mithrandir is your man for amd64 specialitys... the only chroot i use is my pbuilder ...
[10:51] <davyd> ogra: ok, thanks
[10:51] <davyd> I'll assume you haven't seen anything like it
[10:54] <Riddell> elmo: can you confirm if the PowerPC Kubuntu DVD is seeded or no?
[11:01] <fabbione> Kamion: yo..
[11:02] <fabbione> Kamion: do you know of any linux-image-2.6-di that already use kernel-wedge 2?
[11:02] <fabbione> Kamion: i am not sure i understand right how the .lnk has been changed...
[11:02] <fabbione> afaics the file has been renamed and the contents changed to #include <> or #include ""
[11:03] <fabbione> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportRhCluster <- review from this morning. if we can seed it to go to main, we can consider ClusterFileSystem deployed :)
[11:04] <Kamion> fabbione: linux-kernel-di-i386-2.6 in Debian has been changed
[11:04] <mdz> fabbione: did you add it to maininclusionqueue?
[11:04] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks
[11:04] <Kamion> fabbione: the changelog and the README file explain it, though
[11:04] <fabbione> mdz: not personally.. probably pitti did?
[11:05] <pitti> fabbione: yes
[11:05] <fabbione> Kamion: yes, the README explain the current format, not how to migrate.. i just wanted to be 100% sure with a double check
[11:05] <mdz> fabbione: is it seeded yet?
[11:06] <fabbione> mdz: not that i know off... i usually don't touch the seeds at all
[11:06] <mdz> ok, go ahead and seed it, and Kamion or I will promote it with the next batch
[11:06] <fabbione> mdz: ok.. what seed is preferred? supported?
[11:07] <mdz> yes
[11:07] <fabbione> ok
[11:11] <ogra> mdz, oh, while youre at seeds, which stuff (if any) has to move to ubuntu main/supported for edubuntu ? 
[11:12] <ogra> mdz, any policy for that ?
[11:12] <mdz> ogra: isn't that a question that I would ask you? ;-)
[11:12] <mdz> anything new that you added to the edubuntu seeds needs main inclusion reporst
[11:12] <ogra> mdz, nope, i know the software, but you know the policy ?
[11:13] <ogra> so everything thats not in main or supported yet ?
[11:14] <mdz> ogra: pitti created a wiki page with instructions
[11:14] <pitti> ogra: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue, instructions are linked from that
[11:14] <fabbione> mdz: did the seed archive change location recently?
[11:14] <ogra> mdz, i know, i already wrote reports ...
[11:14] <mdz> ogra: edubuntu will be treated just the same as Ubuntu; anything that you add which is not obviously supportable needs a review
[11:15] <mdz> fabbione: no
[11:15] <JaneW> mjg59: ping
[11:15] <ogra> mdz, ok, yay for bureocracy then.. that'll be a lot
[11:15] <Burgundavia> ogra, I might be able to help you
[11:15] <mdz> ogra: main implies an 18-month support commitment; these basic sanity checks are essential for that
[11:16] <ogra> Burgundavia, look at the seeds http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/
[11:16] <ogra> mdz, yes, i know, i just wasnt sure about the difference between edu and ubuntu
[11:16] <Burgundavia> ogra, basically the seeds have everything that is needed? now i need to figure out what is not in main and create reports for it?
[11:17] <ogra> and there are many odditys on the list, pitti will scream :)
[11:17] <Burgundavia> ok
[11:17] <Burgundavia> I will do some work tomorrow
[11:17] <fabbione> mdz: did you ever get to test the kernel with the tpm fixup?
[11:17] <pef> when is the review day ?
[11:18] <fabbione> mdz: the same fix made it in stable release.. so it should work
[11:19] <ogra> Burgundavia, desktop and server are the interesting bits, the rest is similar to ubuntu
[11:19] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:19] <Burgundavia> I have seen the wiki
[11:20] <mdz> fabbione: no, I haven't
[11:20] <fabbione> mdz: ok.. it's more important you had fun :)
[11:22] <JaneW> ***NAG ALERT***
[11:23] <JaneW> ATTENTION all BreezyGoal Leads. Please update your BreezyGoals if you have not done so in the last week.
[11:23] <mdz> daniels: which version of X is referred to in the topic?
[11:23] <ogra> mdz, any ?
[11:23] <mdz> ogra: hmm?
[11:23] <JaneW> ogra: :)
[11:23] <ogra> since -36 ?
[11:24] <JaneW> ogra: I did update 'edubuntu' for you ;)
[11:24] <ogra> JaneW, thanks :)
[11:24] <mdz> ogra: current is -42
[11:25] <ogra> yep
[11:25] <mdz> but there is still a problem
[11:25] <mdz> Setting up xlibs (6.8.2-42) ...
[11:25] <mdz> rmdir: `/etc/X11/xkb/rules': Directory not empty
[11:25] <mdz> thus my question
[11:25] <ogra> and since -36 i've seen no working version 
[11:25] <JaneW> mdz: little nag... LiveCDPrompts - what's happening there?
[11:26] <mdz> JaneW: the resolution was that the ideal experience could be achieved by allowing the keyboard layout to be configured from the gdm login screen
[11:26] <mdz> however that is not something that I will be able to spend time on (it'd be a good bounty)
[11:26] <mdz> we should talk with the person (vincent untz?) who has done other gdm work
[11:27] <JaneW> ok, so deferred for Breezy? or on the bounty page in the hopes that someone will make it happen in time?
[11:27] <JaneW> mdz: ok, shall I contact him?
[11:27] <ogra> JaneW, ask vuntz ?
[11:27] <Burgundavia> ogra, shall I create a wiki page for all the various maininclusion pages?
[11:27] <JaneW> ok
[11:27] <ogra> Burgundavia, that'd be very nice :)
[11:27] <mdz> JaneW: yes; it is a bit late in the cycle to start on it, but it is worth a try
[11:28] <ogra> mdz, one last edubuntu question ... 
[11:28] <seb128> asking what to vuntz ?
[11:28] <ogra> mdz, i'll build the CD that it installs a ltsp classroom by default, but want a option to install a standalone workstation too...
[11:28] <mdz> seb128: mdz JaneW: the resolution was that the ideal experience could be achieved by allowing the keyboard layout to be configured from the gdm login screen
[11:29] <seb128> mdz: I've read that, but if you want him to work on gdm he rejected the bounty (jdub asked him at GUADEC) because he's too busy with other stuff atm
[11:30] <ogra> mdz, since ltsp will be the default, i need a boot/installer option.... or a question in the installer... the latter will generate work for Kamion but is far more userfriendly...
[11:30] <mdz> seb128: is there someone else we can ask?
[11:30] <mdz> ogra: it's already done; Kamion has the details
[11:30] <Burgundavia> ogra, a start --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion
[11:30] <seb128> mdz: not that I know of
[11:30] <ogra> mdz, youre to fast :)
[11:30] <mdz> untested as far as I know
[11:31] <seb128> mdz: maybe jdub as some idea on the topic, but apparently he didn't find anybody for the running gdm bounty ...
[11:31] <jdub> mdz, seb128: i've been polling people about it, not having much success
[11:31] <seb128> hey jdub :)
[11:31] <seb128> :(
[11:33] <mdz> pitti: I forgot to give you your business cards at debconf
[11:33] <JaneW> seb128,mdz: I just went thoguh my e-mails I already asked jdub... nothing came of it (back then anyway)
[11:33] <ogra> jdub, thats the gdm/screensaver integration ? 
[11:33] <seb128> do we have a freeze for universe now or can we get new crack?
[11:34] <ogra> seb128, UVF ... but with approval you can get new stuff in
[11:34] <mdz> JaneW: ok, then I guess it's deferred+bounty
[11:34] <seb128> ogra: read GdmRoadmap spec
[11:34] <seb128> ogra: for universe too?
[11:34] <ogra> seb128, yep
[11:34] <pitti> mdz: oh, I still have plenty
[11:34] <seb128> DOH
[11:34] <mdz> seb128: yes, but it's sort of a slushy freeze
[11:34] <seb128> anjuta2 has been uploaded to Debian
[11:34] <ogra> seb128, but we'll handle it quite loosely
[11:34] <ogra> seb128, yay
[11:34] <pitti> mdz: so at the oct/nov conference will be enough, I guess
[11:35] <ogra> seb128, move it over then....
[11:35] <mdz> pitti: did you get a batch of defective cards?
[11:35] <seb128> mdz: any policy for new packages like anjuta2? That's a cool GNOME IDE expected by some users for some time but nobody stepped to package it before
[11:35] <mdz> seb128: I have no problem with it
[11:35] <pitti> mdz: yes, about 1/4
[11:36] <jdub> ogra: the prettifying stuff
[11:36] <seb128> mdz: cool, I'll get it so
[11:36] <ogra> jdub, ah ok....
[11:36] <seb128> ogra: read GdmRoadmap
[11:36] <jdub> ogra: turn seb off /ignore :)
[11:36] <ogra> heh...
[11:36] <ogra> reading
[11:36] <Burgundavia> ogra, all the links are there now
[11:37] <Amaranth> seb128: When I get smeg 0.8 ready and packaged should I just give it to you?
[11:37] <seb128> Amaranth: sure, thanks
[11:37] <fabbione> Kamion, mdz: it's seeded..
[11:37] <seb128> mdz: are you ok with making smeg the default menu editor?
[11:37] <fabbione> or at least it should be
[11:37] <ogra> Burgundavia, you can add mediawiki to the serverstuff too... its not seeded yet..
[11:37] <Amaranth> seb128: Ok, if any bugs come up are you ok with just taking an 0.8.x package to fix them?
[11:37] <JaneW> doko: ping
[11:38] <JaneW> fabbione: why so quiet on the new kernel name front? 
[11:38] <seb128> Amaranth: depending of the changes, if that's a rewrital of half of the code, nop 
[11:38] <doko> JaneW: pong
[11:38] <fabbione> JaneW: because i am working on quite a big piece of cleanup
[11:38] <fabbione> JaneW: and it's taking time :(
[11:38] <Amaranth> seb128: haha, the rewrite is happening for 0.8, thats why i asked
[11:39] <JaneW> doko: hi, do you have an update on OpenOfficeLocalisation?
[11:39] <fabbione> JaneW: unfortunatly i am cleaning what happens at the end of a kernel build.. and to test it properly it needs to be done from scratch everytime = TONS OF TIME
[11:39] <JaneW> fabbione: ok fair enough (just checking)
[11:39] <JaneW> fabbioneL at one stage I was at risk of running out of names...
[11:39] <doko> JaneW: yep, last time I tried to edit the wiki, firefox crashed ... let me upgrade to the new one and try again
[11:40] <JaneW> fabbione: sounds like loads of fun ...
[11:40] <pitti> fabbione: did you have any success with the "open /dev/dsp multiple times" hack?
[11:40] <fabbione> JaneW: don't worry :) you know i don't just sit here and IRC :P
[11:40] <JaneW> doko: or just give me the update, I can post it for you...
[11:40] <trs81> fabbione: nope, irqpoll didn't do anything, still lots of procs in the D state causing 30% iowait
[11:40] <fabbione> pitti: nope :(
[11:40] <JaneW> fabbione: you don't!? ;)
[11:40] <fabbione> JaneW: that's only as sport
[11:40] <seb128> JaneW: you have send this mail 3 time for wiki update now :p
[11:40] <JaneW> seb128: i KNOW
[11:41] <ogra> seb128, cant gdm support animated gif out of the box ? this one should be fairly easy if you ask in #ubuntu-artwork for a good animation :)
[11:41] <seb128> STOP IT NOW
[11:41] <mdz> seb128: I don't know about the menu editors; what is the other option?
[11:41] <pitti> fabbione: ok, then we ditch that
[11:41] <JaneW> seb128: not to mention the public and private IRC nags and induvidual e-mails... you;d think people were reluctant... ;)
[11:41] <mdz> seb128: the inquiries will continue until the updates happen ;-)
[11:41] <mdz> resistance is useless
[11:41] <seb128> mdz: you have not catch-up on ubuntu-devel list or just skip my mails ? :p
[11:41] <mdz> I have hundreds and hundreds of unread ubuntu-devel messages
[11:42] <seb128> k, I've mailed the list about that next week
[11:42] <mdz> HEAPS
[11:42] <seb128> right click on the menu, you have an edit
[11:42] <fabbione> mdz: welcome back to work :P
[11:42] <seb128> that's the trivial GNOME stuff
[11:42] <seb128> it only hide/show entry
[11:42] <seb128> as said with the mail, user expect to be able at least to put new entries
[11:42] <mdz> fabbione: I have been busy fostering improved community relations
[11:42] <seb128> so I propose to change this one by smeg
[11:42] <fabbione> mdz: eheh
[11:42] <JaneW> seb128: I have seen your e-mails... but you do still need to update your BreezyGoal to keep the updates central - my ubuntu-devel inbox is sitting at close to 800 now...
[11:43] <mdz> seb128: I have no objection; if you're unsure, maybe ask ubuntu-devel for opinions
[11:43] <doko> JaneW: OO.o2 works out much nicer with adding new translations. xhosa was updated, is missing some outdated message strings. integration with rosetta is started. building language packs without building binaries needs input from our ftp master
[11:43] <ogra> seb128, smeg should automatically submit bugreports with the .desktop file for missing ones if one ges created ;)
[11:43] <mdz> if no one else has strong feelings about it, it's your call
[11:43] <ogra> s/ges/gets
[11:43] <\sh> hmmm...Jane is whipping her devs very badly today ,-)
[11:43] <seb128> which is written by Amaranth, used by many users already (that's the editor pointed to hoary users asking for one) and using pygtk/pyxdg
[11:44] <JaneW> \sh: they are making me do it... they obviously love being nagged... ;)
[11:44] <seb128> mdz: I've asked ubuntu-devel for opinion, people agree ... but since I got mainly reply from users and not from other distro guys
[11:44] <Amaranth> I'm sorry, Amaranth is currently unavailable due to stupid vlc build problems. Please try again in 12 years.
[11:44] <seb128> JaneW: I've updated my wiki goals yesterday !
[11:44] <ogra> Amaranth, just wait until wx 2.6 is there
[11:44] <JaneW> got this yesterday, why did God invent the female orgasm?
[11:44] <Amaranth> ogra: it's not that
[11:45] <\sh> JaneW: yeah..I know this feeling ...;)
[11:45] <ogra> \sh, female orgasm ?
[11:45] <Amaranth> ogra: it's theora_pic, some X stuff, etc
[11:45] <ogra> \sh, YOU ?
[11:45] <JaneW> so that woman can moan even when they are happy ;)
[11:45] <\sh> ogra: nonono
[11:45] <ogra> hehe
[11:45] <\sh> ogra: it didn't refere to this female ...what isit?
[11:45] <davyd> badoom-tish!
[11:45] <ogra> \sh, lol
[11:45] <JaneW> seb128: many thanks - in which case messages are not directed at you :))
[11:46] <seb128> you're welcome :p
[11:46] <JaneW> davyd: lol
[11:46] <Burgundavia> ogra, look now
[11:46] <\sh> actually I need a love^Wlife again
[11:46] <mdz> seb128: I'd say go ahead with it, then
[11:46] <ogra> Burgundavia, WOAH
[11:46] <seb128> mdz: thanks
[11:46] <Burgundavia> ogra, now comes the hard part, all the research
[11:46] <ogra> Burgundavia, many many thanks :)
[11:46] <seb128> Amaranth: go to code on smeg, 0 bug must remain
[11:47] <JaneW> er is Xen and XenIntegration the same thing? (I thought not)
[11:47] <Amaranth> ok, someone else can sync vlc from sid and make it build
[11:47] <Amaranth> have fun!
[11:47] <ogra> Burgundavia, its just goint throug 3 security searchengines, mostly you wont find anything... but there are some where pitti will get bad headaches :)
[11:47] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:47] <JaneW> Mithrandir: ping
[11:48] <seb128> "Sorry, a system error occurred "
[11:48] <ogra> seb128, gtk bug in malone ?
[11:48] <seb128> no, malone bug 
[11:48] <pitti> haha
[11:48] <ogra> heh
[11:48] <Amaranth> JaneW: what are you "re porting" exactly? :)
[11:48] <seb128> it refuses to edit a bug
[11:49] <ogra> pitti, look at the big wave of ugly packages that will approach you soon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion
[11:49] <ogra> seb128, logged in ?
[11:49] <seb128> ogra: no no, I'm stupid
[11:49] <ogra> :-P
[11:49] <seb128> ogra: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1468, click on "Ubuntu mail-notification"
[11:50] <JaneW> Amaranth: huh?
[11:50] <pitti> ogra: already saw them, I get autonotified on wiki changes
[11:50] <ogra> seb128, eek
[11:50] <Amaranth> JaneW: Oh, I'm just making fun of a typo. :D
[11:50] <ogra> pitti, ah...
[11:51] <JaneW> fabbione: I never use caps lock :P
[11:51] <\sh> Amaranth: oh man, be careful...this girl is hitting hard ,-)
[11:51] <fabbione> JaneW: ehehe
[11:51] <seb128> pitti: <jdub>  seb128: you just synced firefox, <jdub>  seb128: but... you touched it... now you own it!
[11:51] <seb128> pitti: happy? :p
[11:51] <davyd> yeah, don't you feel silly when you're typing in caps
[11:51] <pitti> seb128: works for me
[11:51] <JaneW> Amarthan: typos however are very frequent... I fancy myself as being able to type far faster than I actually can... hence the errors . I'm working on it...
[11:51] <Amaranth> seb128: hehe, 1.0.6 will probably be out tomorrow
[11:52] <seb128> pitti: NO WAY
[11:52] <davyd> and then you realised that you could have used the capslock?
[11:52] <Burgundavia> pitti, can i just link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuMainInclusion#preview to MainInclusionQueue
[11:52] <Amaranth> JaneW: Tab completion works wonders. :)
[11:52] <JaneW> Amaranth: yes, when I remember to use it ;)
[11:52] <pitti> Burgundavia: why didn't you put it on the main page in the first place? well, but linking is okay for me
[11:53] <Burgundavia> pitti, the list is huge and may be worked on by specific people
[11:53] <pitti> right
[11:53] <seb128> Amaranth: I've a smeg bug for you .... why does it list all the app submenus as <Menuname>... ?
[11:53] <Amaranth> eh?
[11:54] <\sh> lunchtime...bbl
[11:54] <seb128> Amaranth: maybe that's made by gnome-menus
?
[11:54] <Burgundavia> ogra, I am off to bed. I will work on some tomorrow
[11:54] <Amaranth> I don't know what you mean.
[11:54] <seb128> Amaranth: anyway an editor put "Edutainment" at the bottom of the menu instead of its normal position
[11:54] <ogra> Burgundavia, thanks for tha help :)
[11:54] <Burgundavia> ogra, np
[11:54] <Amaranth> oh!
[11:55] <Amaranth> you're messing with layout stuff
[11:55] <seb128> an editor made

...
...
...
[11:55] <Amaranth> yeah
[11:55] <ogra> cool

[11:55] <Amaranth> but it didn't include <Menuname>Edutainment</Menuname>
[11:55] <seb128>                 <Menuname>Multimedia</Menuname>
[11:55] <seb128>                 <Menuname>Edutainment</Menuname>
[11:55] <seb128>                 <Merge type="menus"/>
[11:56] <ogra> you can shuffle positions ? 
[11:56] <Amaranth> Why did you put it on the bottom?
[11:56] <Amaranth> ogra: Yep. :D
[11:56] <ogra> cool++
[11:56] <seb128> Amaranth: I didn't!
[11:56] <Amaranth> And put in separators, and put entries on the main menu...
[11:56] <seb128> Amaranth: if that's not smeg that's gmenu-simple-editor
[11:56] <Amaranth> gmenu-simple-editor doesn't support that
[11:56] <seb128> yeah, that's why I pinged you
[11:56] <Amaranth> it looks like you did a DnD reorder
[11:57] <seb128> hum
[11:57] <Amaranth> otherwise i have no idea
[11:57] <seb128> hint
[11:57] <seb128> that's "ducation" in french
[11:57] <seb128> and it seems to not like the special char
[11:57] <Amaranth> d'oh
[11:57] <Amaranth> i have a feeling it's a pyxdg bug
[11:58] <seb128> that's fine with a C locale
[11:58] <Amaranth> if you don't have <Layout> defined the menus are supposed to be sorted alphabetically
[11:58] <seb128> Amaranth: anyway, where do you want bugs... should I create a bugzilla.ubuntu.com smeg entry and assign bugs for it to you? :)
[11:58] <Amaranth> i'm guessing it's sorting ducation last and then do you something to make pyxdg create a <Layout> it gets stuck there
[11:58] <Amaranth> not my bug
[11:59] <Amaranth> file a bug on the fd.o bugzilla against pyxdg
[11:59] <seb128> Amaranth: I've moved ~/.config/applications.menu away, I run smeg and ducation is at the bottom
[11:59] <Amaranth> although the dev won't be back for another 3 or so weeks
[11:59] <seb128> Amaranth: you are no upstream for pyxdg too? :)
[11:59] <Amaranth> no
[11:59] <seb128> ups, I thought
[11:59] <Amaranth> you're the one who told me to use pyxdg :P
[11:59] <seb128> you said "we are going to get a new version", etc
[12:00] <Amaranth> yeah, we work together
[12:00] <Amaranth> usually a pyxdg release comes out the same time a smeg release does
[12:00] <seb128> yeah, but some weeks after you were using "we" for pyxdg, so I assume you became an upstream :p
[12:00] <Amaranth> i can sort of figure out what's going on in there, mostly i just helped write xdg.MenuEditor
[12:00] <Amaranth> i'll see if i can't figure this out
[12:01] <seb128> /usr/share/doc/python-xdg/examples/test-menu.py list ducation at the bottom
[12:01] <Amaranth> yeah, pyxdg bug
[12:01] <seb128> thanks
[12:03] <JaneW> fabbione: if you have a minute... please look at BreezyGoal Xen...
[12:03] <JaneW> fabbione, do you agree with the comment? And even if you do there's an issue that Ed is still MIA...
[12:05] <JaneW> pitti: thanks for the updates :))
[12:05] <Amaranth> seb128: shit, it's a python bug :/
[12:05] <seb128> Amaranth: oh?
[12:05] <pitti> JaneW: nothing really exciting, I'm afraid :-/
[12:05] <Amaranth> seb128: cmp('ducation', 'System Tools') returns 1
[12:06] <Treenaks> Amaranth: in your locale
[12:06] <Treenaks> Amaranth: sort order is locale-dependent
[12:06] <Amaranth> oh yeah
[12:06] <Amaranth> so i can't even work on this, don't feel like reading french :)
[12:06] <ogra> Amaranth, there will be more languages .... 
[12:06] <ogra> Amaranth, ubuntu supports about 90
[12:07] <Amaranth> i know
[12:07] <Amaranth> i'm saying i can't work on this bug
[12:07] <Amaranth> wait, how do you run just one app with a certain locale?
[12:08] <seb128> Amaranth: LC_ALL=C ./app 
[12:09] <Amaranth> ok, what do i put to get french?
[12:09] <seb128> dpkg-reconfigure locales
[12:09] <seb128> pick fr_FR.UTF-8
[12:09] <seb128> and LC_ALL=fr_FR.UTF-8
[12:09] <pitti> Amaranth: LANG=C foobar
[12:10] <seb128> LANGUAGE=C for graphical apps
[12:10] <seb128> GNOME seems to pick this one before LANG
[12:11] <Amaranth> cmp('ducation', 'System Tools') returns 1 with french too
[12:11] <Amaranth> python bug?
[12:12] <pitti> mdz: I recently asked on the list about interested persons about printing, but silence so far
[12:12] <mdz> pitti: mark suggested that we contact cups upstream
[12:13] <pitti> mdz: I can probably manage the derooting of hplip until feature freeze, but I can't test it
[12:13] <pitti> mdz: about our PrintingRoadmap spec proposals?
[12:13] <pitti> mdz: that would rather be gnome-cups-manager upstream for the hotplugging side
[12:14] <pitti> mdz: or eggcups, depending on how well seb128's experiments with eggcups go
[12:14] <JaneW> pitti: did you see the e-mail I sent...?
[12:14] <pitti> JaneW: yes, I saw
[12:15] <JaneW> ok
[12:15] <pitti> currently I don't even have a printer
[12:15] <pitti> it went away with the moving of my flatmate
[12:16] <seb128> pitti: eggcups will probably not replace gnome-cups-manager, it nice but has not the same feature (ie: you can't set up a smb or lp printer with it)
[12:16] <JaneW> pitti: do you think this guy can do it? I asked him to send some more details, but he is worried that the spec is not very clear...
[12:17] <pitti> JaneW: which spec/guy are you talking about?
[12:19] <JaneW> pitti: the printing roadmap guy...
[12:20] <pitti> JaneW: oh, I thought you meant your reply to my "Seeking help with/takeover of PrintingRoadmap" mail to u-devel
[12:21] <pitti> JaneW: I don't see any other email wrt printing from you
[12:21] <Amaranth> why can't we all just speak english? :)
[12:22] <highvoltage> elmo
[12:22] <JaneW> pitti: mdz just repsonded to us both... did you not received them? (I may be using the wrong address for you...?)
[12:22] <pitti> JaneW: I just checked my ~/.procmail.log
[12:23] <fabbione> JaneW: what comment in Xen specifically?
[12:23] <pitti> JaneW: ah, that one. I didn't download that yet, sorry
[12:23] <JaneW> martin.pitt@ubuntu.com
[12:23] <Amaranth> seb128: This is not going to work, sorry.
[12:24] <JaneW> fabbione: well mithrandir said your student is handling Xen... but he is actually doing Xen Integration - PLUS he is MIA...
[12:24] <seb128> Amaranth: k, maybe I'll reconsider the menu editor choice, thanks
[12:24] <Amaranth> seb128: It's a python bug. Unless I can find a workaround nothing is going to do any better.
[12:25] <seb128> Amaranth: gmenu-simpler-editor works fine
[12:25] <fabbione> JaneW: Mithrandir was the original assigned to Xen, than the student come up... now the student is MIA...
[12:25] <mdz> ok, time to go catch the final plane
[12:25] <Amaranth> seb128: Yeah, their sorting is done in C.
[12:25] <fabbione> JaneW: probably Mith can take Xen back...
[12:25] <fabbione> mdz: have fun
[12:25] <seb128> Amaranth: do the same ...
[12:26] <fabbione> JaneW: but at 2/3 weeks from feature freeze i seriously doubt they can manage to do it
[12:26] <JaneW> sigh
[12:26] <fabbione> JaneW: i will talk with Mith and see..
[12:27] <fabbione> but the option to make that happen seriously clashes with my planned vacation
[12:28] <pitti> JaneW: replied
[12:28] <JaneW> fabbione: :(
[12:30] <Amaranth> collation tables, yay
[12:34] <{Seb}> fabbione: please don't get angry with me this time but...
[12:34] <{Seb}> what does  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1 mean?
[12:34] <pitti> {Seb}: which package?
[12:34] <{Seb}> xlibs
[12:34] <pitti> {Seb}: it generally means that the maintainer screwed up :-)
[12:35] <pitti> {Seb}: known bug; sudo vi /var/lib/dpkg/info/xlibs.postinst
[12:35] <pitti> right before the "test ... && ..." lines, prepend a "set +e"
[12:35] <pitti> and right after, put "exit 0"
[12:35] <{Seb}> prepend? you mean add?
[12:35] <pitti> then sudo dpkg --configure -a
[12:35] <fabbione> {Seb}: it's not question of being angry. these are #ubuntu questions and you are offtopic
[12:36] <pitti> {Seb}: prepend = add in front of
[12:38] <{Seb}> pitti: you are my hero!
[12:40] <{Seb}> pitti: sorry to ask but it now gives me errors like rmdir: /etc/x11/xkb/types: Directory not empty
[12:40] <{Seb}> pitti: should i remove the dirs
[12:41] <{Seb}> pitti: i mean the /etc/x11/xkb dir
[12:41] <pitti> {Seb}: please ask daniels in #ubuntu
[12:41] <{Seb}> sorry
[12:41] <pitti> {Seb}: I'm not sure, but you shouldn't remove them I guess
[12:47] <comadreja> I'm interested in helping with the laptop stuff also... who should I talk to ?
[12:48] <Nafallo> comadreja: mjg59 :-)
[12:55] <trulux> anyone hre using prelink in Breezy who can feel free to send me the /var/log/prelink.log?
[12:56] <pitti> trulux: wanna crack his machine? :-)
[12:56] <pitti> trulux: please be aware that I recently patched prelink to not spit out addresses in the logs
[12:56] <trulux> pitti: OK, great then
[12:56] <trulux> no need
[12:56] <Amaranth> seb128: Fixed. :D
[12:57] <trulux> pitti: no 0-day for prelink so far
[01:01] <seb128> Amaranth: ROCK
[01:02] <seb128> Amaranth: how did you do?
[01:02] <Amaranth> seb128: replaced cmp() with my own hackjob that creates a list and calls sort()
[01:02] <seb128> k
[01:02] <Amaranth> You'll have to include it as a patch until the pyxdg dev gets back
[01:03] <Amaranth> let me pull from cvs and make a diff
[01:03] <seb128> np, thanks
[01:07] <Amaranth> seb128: http://dev.realistanew.com/locale_sort.patch
[01:07] <seb128> thanks
[01:08] <Amaranth> oh, i don't even need all that, hang on
[01:09] <Amaranth> seb128: http://dev.realistanew.com/locale_sort2.patch
[01:09] <Amaranth> much better patch
[01:10] <Amaranth> it's weird, that didn't work in the interpreter, works in real code though
 Gnobody : I don't recall anyone complaining about the 640x480x16 Win32 boot screens ovre the years.
[01:17] <JanC> That's because they are/were 320x400x256   :-P
[01:17] <seb128> Amaranth: cool
[01:19] <j^> but so far nobody complained about the gray apple
[01:21] <Treenaks> JanC: no, they're not..
[01:21] <Treenaks> JanC: the Win95/8 one was, Win2k and XP have 256-color 640x400 (or 480?) screens
[01:21] <Amaranth> yeah, that's what we should get
[01:21] <Amaranth> like apple has
[01:22] <Amaranth> just a simple logo and a little throbber
[01:22] <JanC> well, anyway, they weren't 16-color
[01:22] <Amaranth> that doesn't represent anything
[01:22] <Treenaks> Amaranth: yes, but with semi-naked people
[01:22] <Treenaks> JanC: that was win31 ;) 16-color 640x480 "starting up" screen
[01:22] <JanC> only semi- ?   ;-)
[01:22] <Amaranth> yay!
[01:22] <Amaranth> 102F saturday and sunday
[01:22] <Amaranth> 100F friday
[01:22] <Treenaks> Amaranth: Farad?
[01:23] <davyd> SI units
[01:23] <JanC> davyd : you mean temperature in Kelvin ?  ;)
[01:23] <davyd> sure, why not
[01:23] <Treenaks> JanC: what does he mean by 100 Farad?
[01:23] <Treenaks> JanC: ;)
[01:24] <Treenaks> JanC: I mean.. that's a lot
[01:24] <ogra> Treenaks, capacity, what else ?
[01:24] <davyd> that's a lot of charge
[01:24] <Treenaks> ogra: lots of it
[01:24] <ogra> yeah
[01:24] <Amaranth> It's going to be 39C
[01:24] <Amaranth> 312K
[01:24] <JanC> taht would be 39 C / 100 F I think   :)
[01:24] <Treenaks> 312K, ah :)
[01:25] <ogra> ah 312K, ok... finally a sane unit
[01:25] <Amaranth> JanC: 102 degrees Fahrenheit = 38.8888889 degrees Celsius
[01:25] <Amaranth> 100 is 38
[01:25] <Treenaks> Amaranth: i.e. 
[01:25] <JanC> well, here it's 18-20 C today...
[01:25] <Treenaks> "too hot"
[01:25] <Amaranth> Treenaks: yes, "too hot"
[01:26] <Amaranth> "What's the temperature today? Too hot."
[01:26] <Amaranth> 33C here today
[01:27] <Amaranth> good thing i have air
[01:30] <Nermal> Amaranth: ouch
[01:44] <Amaranth> seb128: I thought you should know I do know of one issue with PyXDG that is kinda major. It totally bombs on non-UTF8 things. Shouldn't be a problem in Ubuntu though.
[01:45] <seb128> Amaranth: k, thanks
[01:45] <Amaranth> seb128: If you can figure out a way to actually make this error happen (non-UTF8 filename) it'll help me fix it.
[01:45] <pitti> D'oh, who kicked my computer while I was at luch?
[01:46] <seb128> Amaranth: what error should it give exactly?
[01:47] <Amaranth>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/xdg/Menu.py", line 1025, in getMenuEntries
[01:47] <Amaranth>     if menuentry.DesktopFileID not in ids:
[01:47] <Amaranth> UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position 25-27: invalid data
[01:47] <Amaranth> this is easily hidable but the lanius would rather leave it failing until someone comes forward with enough data to solve it for real
[01:52] <davyd> are the amd64 buildds back up?
[01:52] <Nafallo> davyd: yes :-)
[01:52] <Amaranth> if they are amd64 users are X-less now too
[01:52] <davyd> Amaranth: mmm, -42 is still dodgy?
[01:53] <Amaranth> yep
[01:53] <davyd> ok
[01:53] <Nafallo> Amaranth: I knew X is bad and didn't update ;-)
[01:53] <davyd> they were X-less before
[01:53] <davyd> because the data packages were still getting installed
[01:53] <seb128> Amaranth: easy to get
[01:53] <Amaranth> ?
[01:53] <seb128> Amaranth: generate a non UTF-8 locale
[01:54] <Amaranth> hmm
[01:54] <seb128> ie: de_DE
[01:54] <seb128> start LC_ALL=de_DE xterm
[01:54] <seb128> cd /usr/share/applications
[01:54] <seb128> cp gedit.desktop gedit.desktop
[01:54] <davyd> there looks like nothing in the update that I really want/need
[01:54] <seb128>     if menuentry.DesktopFileID not in ids:
[01:54] <seb128> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc9 in position 6: ordinal not in range(128)
[01:55] <Amaranth> ascii?
[01:55] <seb128> I've that by running /usr/share/doc/python-xdg/examples/test-menu.py
[01:55] <Amaranth> oh, python only knows ascii and unicode
[01:55] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[01:55] <Amaranth> shouldn't be a problem in ubuntu though, should it?
[01:55] <Amaranth> everything is supposed to be utf-8
[01:57] <ogra> Amaranth, yes, everything is supposed to, but tere is a lt of stuff not converted yet in universe
[01:57] <Amaranth> yeah, someone installed 'iPodder' and got this error
[01:58] <Amaranth> but i just realized i think there are about 10 places to find and fix to make pyxdg fail silently
[01:58] <Amaranth> and skip that file
[01:58] <ogra> Amaranth, there is a utf8 migration tool, written by Mithrandir, its not ready yet, but you probably can grab some conversion code from it
[01:58] <Amaranth> python?
[01:59] <seb128> what is the issue? the filename?
[01:59] <Amaranth> yeah
[01:59] <seb128> I don't think that a lot of packages install no utf8 filenames
[01:59] <seb128> I don't have one here
[01:59] <Amaranth> bad filename means bad DesktopFileID
[01:59] <seb128> I would say that's a minor bug
[01:59] <seb128> but still a bu
[02:00] <Amaranth> if no packages do it only someone who knows what they're doing should be able to make non-UTF8 filenames
[02:01] <seb128> or some broken software
[02:04] <pitti> Hi carstenh, how's it going?
[02:05] <carstenh> hi pitti, fine. i'm currently working on the core module ond hope to release a first version before jbailey comes back from vacation
[02:06] <JaneW> carstenh: hello
[02:06] <\sh> pitti: it isn't the truth, right, that mentors.debian.net is running on ubuntu?
[02:06] <carstenh> JaneW: hi
[02:06] <JaneW> carstenh, nice to see you here - seems like you are busy :)
[02:06] <seb128> elmo: glib2.0 (2.7.3/experimental) sync please :)
[02:06] <carstenh> pitti: JaneW: i will send a weekly report today or tommorow
[02:07] <carstenh> JaneW: yes :)
[02:07] <JaneW> carstenh: excellent thanks. Just been reporting an MIA student, so you are a huge contrast to that:)
[02:08] <carstenh> JaneW: jbailey wanted to ask you who the maintainer for GraphicalConfigTools is
[02:08] <carstenh> JaneW: thanks :)
[02:08] <carstenh> pitti: a few thinks have changed, but they are not on the wiki at the moment
[02:09] <Mitario> hello everyone
[02:09] <JaneW> carstenh: I think it's ogra - but let me check
[02:09] <JaneW> ogra: ping
[02:09] <ogra> yep
[02:09] <JaneW> ogra: do you maintain GraphicalConfigTools?
[02:09] <JaneW> ogra: you were the lead on the soec...
[02:09] <JaneW> spec
[02:10] <ogra> thats me, or rather retrix who is working on the bounty
[02:10] <JaneW> carstenh: is that all you needed?
[02:10] <carstenh> JaneW: yes, thanks
[02:11] <ogra> carstenh, doe he need something from me ?
[02:11] <ogra> does even
[02:11] <Riddell> pitti: did you see the QCATLS main review request?
[02:11] <carstenh> ogra: hi, i'm working on the firewall bounty. are you going to implement another system-v service configuration tool?
[02:11] <carstenh> ogra: or rather your student
[02:11] <ogra> carstenh, i think we're fine with the one from gnome-system-tools thats currently in
[02:12] <carstenh> ogra: ok
[02:12] <ogra> do you plan a startup script for the firewall ?
[02:12] <Mitario> hmm, xbase-clients has been broken for a few days now right?
[02:12] <ogra> Mitario, yes....
[02:12] <carstenh> ogra: do you think integrating the firewall-gui in your framework makes sense?
[02:13] <carstenh> ogra: yes, it will be in /etc/network/if-{up,down}.d/
[02:13] <ogra> carstenh, do you write something new ? or do you adjust the firestarter stuff ?
[02:13] <carstenh> ogra: and a gui to easily configure the firewall
[02:14] <carstenh> ogra: something new, integrating firestarter in ubuntu the way we do it would be very hard
[02:14] <retrix> ogra, carstenh, i could possibly manage that
[02:14] <retrix> carstenh, how involved do you imagine the configuration options would be?
[02:14] <ogra> there is no special framework, but if you need someone to write a gui probably retrix is your guy, the ndiswrapper gui he wrote is nearly in shape so there might be time for more :)
[02:15] <carstenh> retrix: hi, i don't really understand your question :/
[02:15] <carstenh> ogra: i will write the gui myself, it's part of the bounty ;)
[02:15] <schweeb> I've always rather disliked firestarter
[02:15] <ogra> ah, ok
[02:16] <retrix> ok
[02:16] <schweeb> it could use quite a bit of fixing before it's ready for the home user
[02:16] <ogra> schweeb, its not worse then zone alarm ;)
[02:16] <schweeb> at least zone alarm manages to cleanly remove all of its rules before exiting
[02:16] <Nafallo> I started to dislike firestarter when I couldn't upload POs to rosetta :-P
[02:16] <carstenh> retrix: are you writing your tools with pygtk?
[02:17] <retrix> carstenh, yep
[02:17] <schweeb> firestarter tends to leave behind all kinds of rules
[02:17] <pitti> \sh: their web site says so
[02:17] <\sh> pitti: and then this discussion...funny..really
[02:17] <carstenh> retrix: i will integrate my gui into gnome-system-tools (glade2 + c + python)
[02:18] <schweeb> last time I tried it, it basically blocked all access to the internet, and then after I quit, it stayed that way
[02:18] <schweeb> I had to manually flush my iptables
[02:18] <pitti> \sh: well, there's not really sth to discuss about, it rather belongs to debian-curiosa or whatever :-)
[02:18] <pitti> Riddell: yes, I did. Sorry, still EBUSY
[02:18] <pitti> Riddell: could you add the bug and security history?
[02:18] <Riddell> pitti: no rush, just checking you'd registered it :)
[02:18] <ogra> carstenh, g-s-t had a perl backend last time i looked (dunno if garnacho rewrote it)
[02:18] <Riddell> pitti: ok, will do
[02:18] <pitti> Riddell: yes, I subscribed to the wiki page
[02:19] <\sh> pitti: I just had to laugh...but not because it's running an apache2 package with ubuntu string, but that there is a small thread about it
[02:19] <carstenh> ogra: they would accept pery and python backends (according to the readme)
[02:19] <ogra> carstenh, so its rather (glade2 + c + perl) ;)
[02:19] <ogra> oh, thats new, nice :)
[02:19] <carstenh> ogra: ... and ubuntu projects are normally written in python
[02:19] <ogra> yep
[02:20] <carstenh> pitti: do you think a firewall should be started by default, even if no service is installed? it would prevent viruses from being accessed from outside.
[02:21] <carstenh> ... of couse it would be possible to disable it i.e. with vi /etc/default/firewall or the gui
[02:22] <pitti> carstenh: sure, if the default policy is sane (which it should anyway), it should just work
[02:23] <Nafallo> ++ on that one :-)
[02:23] <pitti> \sh: it's not the apache string, the web site advertises "powered by ubuntu"
[02:24] <carstenh> pitti: it will be sane, but only services that provide rules would be able to listen to the network. if a use installs something without using the package-system it would be blocked
[02:24] <carstenh> ... unless the user writes rules for that daemon
[02:25] <pitti> carstenh: I guess we can still disable it last-minute if we don't manage to create rules for all servers?
[02:25] <Nafallo> ... or add an advanced tab in the gui?
[02:25] <ogra> eeek
[02:25] <carstenh> pitti: sure, will be a 1-line-patch :)
[02:26] <ogra> Nafallo, rather leave them out of the gui and make it gconf keys you can set with the gconf-editor
[02:27] <carstenh> must all rules be finished before the 11th of august?
[02:27] <carstenh> i guess a missing rule is some kind of important bug, so it should be fixable even later
[02:30] <Nafallo> ogra: I would prefer an "advanced" button. you should not have to use the registry ;-).
[02:30] <ogra> Nafallo, its not a registry, its the place where advanced options have to go to not clutter the GUI and make it ugly
[02:31] <mdke> gconf is totally similar to a registry
[02:31] <mdke> IMO
[02:31] <ogra> not at all
[02:31] <Treenaks> gconf != debconf :)
[02:31] <Nafallo> ogra: IMO it looks more like winreg than anything else I've ever seen in linux ;-)
[02:31] <mdke> from a user perspective
[02:31] <ogra> the windows registry is a havoc...
[02:31] <Nafallo> or regedit rather
[02:31] <ogra> mdke, gconf is dotfiles-ng ;)
[02:31] <Treenaks> ogra: no, Havoc wrote gconf (right?)
[02:31] <ogra> hehe
[02:32] <mdke> ogra, naturally it is not as bad, but it has a similar feel for the user
[02:32] <mdke> it is totally un-user-friendly
[02:32] <ogra> mdke, thats why its for advanced users that need advanced options...
[02:32] <azeem> mdke: normal user shouldn't need to use it, anyway
[02:33] <mdke> that is debateable
[02:33] <Nafallo> anyway. with an advanced tab to override serviceports and the like you could actually run your apache2 as localhost only if you would want to.
[02:33] <mdke> but i don't really think its that good for advanced users either
[02:33] <jdub> ogra: that's not what gconf is for
[02:33] <ogra> jdub, so explain it to us then :)
[02:34] <jdub> mdke: gconf is for *programmers*; it is an api and infrastructure for handling configuration metadata, including policy (mandatory/default settings)
[02:34] <mdke> jdub, sometimes users edit gconf to change settings which do not appear in the gui, right?
[02:34] <jdub> mdke: gconf-editor, the raw front end, is not intended to be used by regular users
[02:35] <jdub> only very particular kinds of users
[02:35] <ogra> jdub, how do i set burnproof for n-c-b then ?
[02:35] <carstenh> pitti: what about logging _spoofed_ packets, sould it be possible?
[02:35] <jdub> ogra: hrm?
[02:35] <ogra> jdub, without using gconf-editor as a advanced settings tool
[02:36] <jdub> ogra: it's not designed to be an "advanced settings tool"
[02:36] <pitti> carstenh: unintrusively, yes. some syslog
[02:36] <azeem> ogra: just edit the XML data in ~/.gconf with vi
[02:36] <mdke> jdub, yes I mean gconf-editor the frontend. the discussion was about whether settings should be ommitted from a gui preferences tool because they can be accessed there. My view was "no"
[02:36] <ogra> jdub, burnproof is off by default, n-c-b has no option to enable it, gconf is the only way... there are many apps that use it this way
[02:36] <bob2> hah, nearly raster
[02:36] <jdub> i don't know what burnproof is, or what the use cases for it are, so i can't answer that
[02:36] <Nafallo> ogra: that's a bug then
[02:37] <jdub> azeem: those files are not meant to be modified directly
[02:37] <ogra> jdub, a important CD burning setting you need to burn on underpowered machines
[02:37] <carstenh> pitti: ok, so i have to add spoofing rules... using /proc/... iirc does not support logging
[02:37] <Nafallo> jdub: make cd-rws detect what maximum speed to use on the fly (or something like that)
[02:37] <bob2> burnproof = not get buffer underruns, even when the cpu is hammered
[02:37] <Nafallo> s/rw/r/
[02:37] <ogra> Nafallo, nope
[02:37] <jdub> mdke: the presence of gconf-editor is not related to the choice to make things 'just work' or the requirement for a preference
[02:37] <azeem> Nafallo: no, it just stops the laser when there is a buffer-underrun and restarts when the buffer has been refilled
[02:38] <ogra> Nafallo, it cares for buffer underruns while burning
[02:38] <mdke> jdub, that is also my view
[02:38] <azeem> Mr. Schilling argues that it does make 1:1 copies, so you have to forcibly enabled it in cdrecord
[02:38] <mdke> the point i was making
[02:38] <azeem> eh, s/does/does not/
[02:38] <Nafallo> azeem, ogra: ahh, thanx :-). I've always wondered exactly how that worked.
[02:38] <jdub> ogra: is there any reason to not use it?
[02:38] <ogra> jdub, i'm just opposed to having "advanced" tabs anywhere in a config tool
[02:39] <ogra> jdub, yes, some writers dont support it
[02:39] <jdub> can that be detected?
[02:39] <seb128> jdub: k, I'm bugging you again, sorry ... but l10n list?
[02:39] <ogra> dunno... but i can look at it for breezy+1 :)
[02:39] <seb128> jdub: if there is no way just say it, ubuntu-fr.org guys will set one
[02:40] <Nafallo> ogra: yay! breezy+1 goal assigned to you already? ;-)
[02:40] <seb128> jdub: I was just trying to make them working closer of Ubuntu
[02:40] <ogra> Nafallo, heh
[02:40] <mdke> seb128, what is l10n list?
[02:40] <jdub> it sounds like the feature exists in n-c-b, but there has been no decision to make it 'just work' or put in a pref
[02:40] <azeem> does n-c-b still use cdrecord, or rather libburn these days? (and are those two really independent?)
[02:40] <bob2> mdke: localisation
[02:40] <ogra> azeem, still cdrecord
[02:40] <jdub> seb128: going to do it tonight; standard will be ubuntu-<lang>-l10n
[02:40] <seb128> mdke: a list to coordinate translators work
[02:40] <ogra> azeem, and yes, they are independent
[02:40] <seb128> jdub: THANKS :)
[02:41] <mdke> seb128, different to ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com?
[02:41] <seb128> mdke: I want a french list for french translators
[02:41] <mdke> ah cool
[02:41] <mdke> nice idea
[02:41] <seb128> mdke: to coordinate french translations
[02:41] <mdke> we've been doing ours on freelists.org
[02:41] <ogra> jdub, i think its a HAL thing... the newer versions should be able to detect if burnproof is possible...
[02:41] <jdub> seb128: i'll make you the owner for now, and you can help them sort out owner/admin stuff :)
[02:41] <jdub> ogra: sounds about right :-)
[02:42] <Nafallo> jdub: could we have one for sweden to? I try to get those guys started to make some decisions on coordination. I haven't got an answer yet.
[02:42] <ogra> yep :) 
[02:42] <seb128> jdub: k, I'm getting used to be set as owner for the lists :p
[02:42] <jdub> ogra: so in the mean time, defaulting to off and not bothering with tweaky bits in the ui is the right idea
[02:42] <jdub> Nafallo: i generally only create lists based on clear demand :)
[02:43] <ogra> jdub, ok... it was just my example.... we were talking about advanced options for a default enabled firewall originally ;)
[02:43] <jdub> seb128: should get an email  in a minute
[02:45] <Nafallo> jdub: good point. I will probably send them another mail soon, and then go with "I took the silence as yes" to put me as coordinator ;-). anyway, that's nothing that can't be undone.
[02:46] <jdub> Nafallo: is this for translation team stuff, or loco team stuff?
[02:46] <Nafallo> jdub: translation
[02:47] <jdub> Nafallo: and there's too much traffic on the loco team list for it?
[02:47] <Nafallo> jdub: we don't have a loco for sweden that I'm aware of.
[02:47] <mdke> jdub, if you intent this sort of list to become standard, we can think about moving ubuntu-l10n-it from freelists.org to lists.ubuntu.com. The list is used to coordinate the whole italian documentation team, regarding both rosetta and the wiki work
[02:47] <mdke> intent/intend
[02:47] <jdub> mdke: yeah, if there are others out there, we should pull them in
[02:48] <mdke> jdub, okay, will you sort it? I can get the archive
[02:48] <jdub> Nafallo: hrm, had odd memory of an se list -> anyway, that's the first step, creating a loco team, then we can split off an l10n list later if required
[02:48] <mdke> but we use the list for all documentation rather than just rosetta translation
[02:49] <jdub> mmm, i was thinking of making them ubuntu-<lang>-dev, but... meh
[02:49] <jdub> l10n covers what that development would be, so
[02:49] <highvoltage> elmo
[02:49] <Nafallo> jdub: I disagree. why do we need a loco for translation work? I rather expand the other way around.
[02:50] <jdub> Nafallo: the idea is that loco teams handle localisation and local community outreach
[02:50] <mdke> jdub, well we have a number of groups in the locoteam, like forum/website development and locoteam, that don't use the ubuntu-l10n-it list
[02:51] <jdub> Nafallo: so first we'd create ubuntu-se (which doesn't really have to be a full-on loco team)
[02:51] <jdub> Nafallo: then once the l10n traffic got too much for the other loco tasks, we split off a -l10n list (as has happened in france)
[02:51] <jdub> mdke: that's what loco teams do
[02:51] <mdke> we use our ubuntu-it for support
[02:51] <Nafallo> jdub: in other words we create a loco-team that really is a translation team? :-)
[02:52] <Nafallo> hehe, might work :-)
[02:52] <jdub> Nafallo: to start with, if that's the major activity of the loco team, yes
[02:52] <jdub> the loco teams focus on different kinds of things, depending on their drive
[02:54] <Nafallo> jdub: sounds good to me. I'll try to get those things rolling when the schools start again and all students are back at broadband ;-).
[02:56] <JaneW> am I correct that there is no tech board tonight?
[02:57] <mdke> next week?
[02:57] <mdke> 26th
[02:57] <Nafallo> JaneW: 26 July 20:00 UTC: Tech Board
[02:57] <Nafallo> :-)
[02:57] <ogra> JaneW, Tue 19 July 14:00 UTC Community Council -- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda 
[02:59] <mdke> jdub, seems to be no "export archives" on freelists.org
[03:00] <jdub> mdke: if you figure out how, let me know - though i'm going away for a week tomorrow, so perhaps we'll do this after that
[03:01] <mdke> jdub, we don't have a problem continuing to use that list, its rocket fast :D
[03:01] <mdke> jdub, i'll email them tho
[03:04] <azeem> are universe packages not built automatically from unstable?
[03:05] <ogra> azeem, we're in UVF
[03:06] <ogra> no autosyncs anymore
[03:06] <azeem> ah
[03:06] <azeem> pymol might actually become installable when getting a sync, but I'm not sure
[03:16] <davyd> ok, my attempt to build a Xinerama aware xscreensaver has failed
[03:18] <ogra> davyd, as i said, i have it here... i just need to clean the code of the new lockwindow hack
[03:18] <davyd> ogra: but I wanted to do it now
[03:18] <davyd> also, I am avoiding dist-upgrading X for a while
[03:19] <davyd> which is likely to be a dependancy of a new xscreensaver
[03:19] <davyd> my xscreensaver appears to link against libXinerama
[03:19] <ogra> davyd, wait a sec... you need amd64 ?
[03:19] <davyd> ogra: yeah
[03:19] <davyd> I'm mostly interested in why mine didn't work
[03:20] <davyd> the 'test-xinerama' reports things sanely
[03:22] <ogra> davyd, just uploading a binary... should be there in 5min
[03:23] <ogra> davyd, but it might not work as well, my X is a bit outdated...
[03:23] <davyd> I'm running -36 with random recompiled crack
[03:23] <ogra> so it myight link to the wrong lib currently
[03:24] <davyd> mmm, anything could happen really
[03:27] <tseng> Nafallo: how big is your mirror
[03:27] <ogra> davyd, http://www.grawert.net/xscreensaver_4.21-4ubuntu6_amd64.deb
[03:28] <ogra> davyd, breakage in the unlock window is intentional :P
[03:28] <Nafallo> tseng: 15G or so. main+restricted amd64+i386 :-)
[03:28] <davyd> so turn of screen locking?
[03:28] <Nafallo> tseng: and not updated in some days ;-)
[03:29] <davyd> s/of/off/
[03:30] <ogra> davyd, nope, but dont report any bugs if you find some.... and tell me how you like the window ;)
[03:30] <davyd> ok, can do
[03:31] <davyd> ogra: hard to tell, something is wrong with the xinerama-ness
[03:31] <davyd> ogra: this is the same problem I was having earlier
[03:31] <ogra> davyd, yes, but its a X prob...
[03:31] <davyd> it isn't aware, and screen0 flashes
[03:32] <Nafallo> tseng: was about 60G when it was full !ppc :-)
[03:32] <ogra> davyd, lets solve it together if X is in shape (i have the bugs about it assigned anyway)
[03:32] <davyd> ogra: I wonder if it's my half baked X setup
[03:33] <ogra> davyd, if my compile fails for you too, its unlikely your setup
[03:33] <ogra> (i have no xinerama machine around here)
[03:33] <davyd> it's not the compile
[03:33] <ogra> (at least not set up=
[03:33] <davyd> it simply doesn't work as advertised
[03:33] <davyd> which is the problem I was having
[03:34] <davyd> however, the test-xinerama thingo that is buildable in the xscreensaver source tells me about the screens
[03:34] <ogra> does it show the lockscreen in the middle of both screens ?
[03:34] <ogra> or only on screen0 ?
[03:34] <davyd> ogra: in the middle of both screens
[03:34] <dave> hi! anyone here who is experienced with preseeding of custom ubuntu/debian boot cds ?
[03:34] <davyd> it also has the hack spread across both screens
[03:35] <ogra> davyd, thats the xinerama implementation in X then
[03:35] <davyd> ogra: so, out of interest, how is it working for GTK+
[03:35] <cartman> hi all
[03:35] <ogra> davyd, in debian its not even compiled with the -with-xinerama-support compile option, but works anyway
[03:35] <cartman> gcc doesn't build on amd64, seems like ada should be disabled
[03:35] <davyd> hmm
[03:36] <ogra> davyd, dunno, i'd never touch gtk for the screensaver
[03:36] <Treenaks> teh gtk bong!
[03:36] <ogra> davyd, its all fake ;) theming with xpm and xft
[03:37] <davyd> I meant actual GTK+
[03:37] <davyd> my desktop is Xinerama aware, and the test app is aware, but the main xscreensaver is not
[03:37] <ogra> davyd, ah, thats what you mean...
[03:37] <davyd> they appear to be linked against the same library
[03:37] <ogra> davyd, but probably xscreensaver does the wrong calls
[03:38] <davyd> hmm, strange
[03:38] <davyd> I've seen it work, it works in fc4
[03:38] <ogra> when i started the lockwindow theming last year, the lock.c file hasnt been touched for about 10 years... might apply to other parts too
[03:39] <ogra> so i'd guess jwz has built in some hardcoded crap to acheive xinerama (as he does with the logo in the original lock win)
[03:39] <dave> preseeding ? anyone ?
[03:39] <davyd> ogra: and for the hacks themselves?
[03:39] <davyd> on fc4 it runs a hack per screen
[03:39] <ogra> davyd, most is third party stuff
[03:40] <davyd> ogra: redhat patches?
[03:40] <ogra> dunno hiw jwz incorporates them
[03:40] <ogra> yep, sounds good
[03:40] <davyd> I wonder if you can get a list of patches in a Fedora package
[03:40] <ogra> davyd, as i said, i'm currently not working on that one and wanna wait until X is in shape again
[03:41] <davyd> mm, I'm just interested
[03:41] <ogra> but fedora patches might solve it
[03:41] <ogra> i just havent looked :)
[03:41] <ogra> yet
[03:43] <davyd> hmm, no source...
[03:43] <ogra> davyd, cant you just digthe bug database at fedora ?
[03:43] <davyd> I was imagining I could get it from the SRPM
[03:44] <ogra> hmm
[03:46] <davyd> hmm, I was meant to be studying
[03:46] <davyd> I think I got distracted
[03:46] <ogra> hehe
[03:47] <bddebian> Heya
[03:47] <davyd> nautilus is annoying not Xinerama aware, I should work on that, it's annoying me
[03:50] <davyd> nope, they don't seem to patch that particular thing
[03:54] <ogra> hmm
[03:59] <Amaranth> CC meeting starting now
[04:25] <Amaranth> sabdfl: The meeting started already
[04:25] <pitti> Hey sabdfl 
[04:25] <pitti> Hi Keybuk 
[04:26] <Keybuk> ugh, laundry is so tedious
[04:26] <Keybuk> someone should invest heavily in self-cleaning clothes
[04:26] <chmj> heh
[04:28] <dilinger> Keybuk: are you aware that they've invented machines to do laundry *for* you?
[04:28] <dilinger> you simply put the clothes in the machine, put in some detergent, turn it on, and 30mins to an hour later, the clothes are clean!
[04:28] <dilinger> it's quite amazing :)
[04:28] <Amaranth> dilinger: Ok, self-folding clothes then.
[04:28] <Amaranth> :)
[04:29] <dilinger> feh, folding clothes is optional :)
[04:31] <Keybuk> dilinger: yeah, but the clothes then require drying, ironing in some circumstances
[04:32] <dilinger> i suppose if you wear things other than tshirts and jeans, then yes, additional care is required
[04:35] <trygvebw> is there any reason why mkfontdir is NOT in the xutils package? how soon will that be fixed?
[04:37] <Amaranth> 2017
[04:37] <Amaranth> daniels is working on it, just be patient
[04:37] <seth_k> you forgot to account for the time dilation produced by faulty Xorg... 2018
[04:37] <Amaranth> it might be a week or so though
[04:41] <trygvebw> ok
[04:46] <cartman> any idea about gcc 4.0.1 problem?
[04:46] <cartman> maybe someone can tell me irc nick of "Matthias Klose" ?
[04:47] <davyd> Mithrandir: you around?
[04:47] <cartman> so I can notify him
[04:48] <davyd> ooher, is usplash available in something?
[04:48] <pitti> D'oh, the current dailys are so *horribly* broken...
[04:48] <ogra> davyd, see ubuntu-evel@ ;)
[04:48] <pitti> anyway, gotta go, cu tomorrow
[04:48] <ogra> devel even
[04:49] <davyd> yay. devel mailing lists
[04:54] <jani> elmo, I know it's upstream freeze, but what about new packages in sid? I see mecurial has been there for a while but it's not in ubuntu
[04:54] <jani> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/devel/mercurial
[04:55] <jani> also http://packages.debian.org/experimental/mail/mutt-ng :)
[04:55] <ogra> jani, you need approvement
[04:55] <jani> ogra, where do we get those?
[04:55] <ogra> after the meeting...
[04:56] <jani> irc, ml, wiki?
[04:56] <jani> ah ok
[04:56] <jani> sure I didn;t want to get them myself, just ask elmo to sync if he finds it reasonable
[05:00] <Mithrandir> davyd: yes
[05:15] <dieman> daniels: poke
[05:15] <Amaranth> dieman: xbase-clients isn't done
[05:15] <dieman> heh
[05:15] <dieman> any other x-like people in here?
[05:15] <Amaranth> depends on what you need
[05:16] <dieman> i was wondering how fucked I may be if I backport breezy's x server to hoary.
[05:16] <dieman> ie: are upgrades to breezy going to be ok
[05:16] <Amaranth> I'll strangle you.
[05:16] <dieman> or is there major breakage coming?
[05:16] <dieman> hey, its just a local package :)
[05:16] <dieman> im not distributing this stuff
[05:16] <Amaranth> oh
[05:16] <Amaranth> well, xorg doesn't work now and work on making clean upgrades from hoary to breezy xorg hasn't even started
[05:17] <dieman> heh
[05:17] <dieman> ok, that answers my question
[05:17] <dieman> now to look into backporting the intel driver into hoary's x server :)
[05:17] <Amaranth> dist-upgrade takes 3-4 trys to even get everything installed
[05:17] <dieman> hah
[05:17] <dieman> awesome
[05:17] <Amaranth> and that's when xorg is working
[05:18] <dieman> I need i945 support like, now. :)
[05:18] <dieman> so i'll just look into it on this end
[05:25] <Nafallo> jdub: blog-ping ;-).
[05:29] <Nafallo> jdub: you got mail instead :-)
[05:30] <doko> Keybuk: would it be technically possible to run MOM for a list of source packages, i.e. those from CxxLibraryList?
[05:31] <Keybuk> sure
[05:31] <Keybuk> list needs to be of the form "source-package-name distro-release-name"
[05:31] <Keybuk> ie. "coreutils main" ... "wpasupplicant universe"
[05:31] <Keybuk> etc.
[05:32] <doko> ok, I'll prepare one. sepratate by newline?
[05:32] <Keybuk> yup
[05:32] <Keybuk> if you get it to me within the next ~24 hours, I can set up a run for you
[05:32] <Keybuk> otherwise you'll have to wait until ~Friday
[05:34] <dieman> openoffice builds suck.
[05:36] <seth_k> haha, how long did it take?
[05:36] <dieman> oh, i think that one was at least 12 hours, i dont remember
[05:36] <dieman> it was awful
[05:36] <dieman> took like 10gb of space too i think
[05:36] <dieman> i just remember it being a few order of magnitudes worse than X
[05:37] <dieman> lamont probally knows well how long it takes on the buildds
[05:39] <lamont> OO.o is around 6 hours on i386 (building arch all)
[05:39] <dieman> heh
[05:39] <lamont> faster everywhere else
[05:39] <dieman> youve got faster boxes most likely too
[05:39] <fabbione> hey lamont 
[05:39] <dieman> this was only on my 3ghz with 1gb of memory and single disk
[05:40] <lamont> dieman: 3Ghz, 2GB RAM
[05:40] <dieman> yeah
[05:40] <dieman> more memory
[05:41] <dieman> lamont: how you doing these days?
[05:41] <dieman> or you busy, i can talk to you some other time too.
[05:41] <lamont> doing well, mostly.  catching up on email and such before heading to the office for the day
[05:42] <dieman> heh. i hate the email after being gone for a week
[05:43] <dieman> we moved just earlier this month, so i wasn't in the loop here for a bit. 
[05:43] <lamont> iz daily thing...
[05:44] <dieman> heh
[05:44] <lamont> week or 2 ago, I did a hoary install on ia64, and we got the one bug fixed for breezy..
[05:44] <dieman> ive got a old itanium 1 collecting dust
[05:44] <dieman> its been turned off for a while.
[05:44] <lamont> I need to fetch a new d-i build for ia64 and see if the most recent kernel needs some ia64 love, or where my issue is there
[05:44] <dieman> 2 processor, 4 way mobo
[05:44] <bddebian> Well send it to me! :-)
[05:45] <dieman> so broken spatial is going away in breezy it sounds, right?
[05:46] <mjg59> jbailey: Ping? We need to discuss initrd/initramfs and usplash integration at some stage
[05:51] <carstenh> mjg59: he will not answer before wednesday
[05:55] <mjg59> carstenh: No problem
[06:36] <Keybuk> 2005-07-19 17:36:33,017 INFO Creating manifest item for 'apache2-2.0.54/debian/patches/001_apachectl_is_differently_fucked'
[06:37] <Keybuk> I still think that's funny, every time I see it
[06:55] <fabbione> seb128: ping?
[06:55] <seb128> fabbione: pong
[06:55] <fabbione> seb128: i found the problem... 
[06:55] <fabbione> seb128: i will need your help to find the cure :(
[06:56] <seb128> the libc bog?
[06:56] <fabbione> seb128: basically a set of gnome libs have been linked wrongly
[06:56] <fabbione> the toolchain now seems to work
[06:56] <fabbione> probably it was in the past..
[06:56] <fabbione> this link error did propagate quite wildly around all of gnome
[06:56] <seb128> what send? and do they have anything caracteristic?
[06:57] <seb128> s/send/set/
[06:57] <fabbione> up till now i figured only 2 libs that need to be rebuilded..
[06:57] <fabbione> seb128: eh i am not sure..
[06:57] <fabbione> it's nothing you can grep for
[06:57] <seb128> if you wait next week there is a new GNOME upstream
[06:57] <seb128> I'll probably reupload almost the whole stack again
[06:58] <fabbione> actually..
[06:58] <fabbione> i think we can grep for it..
[06:58] <seb128> oh, cool
[06:59] <fabbione> no it's not cool
[06:59] <seb128> if we can list the stuff to rebuild I can manage to upload with the right order
[06:59] <fabbione> seb128: i am afraid it will be faster to rebuild sparc from scratch
[07:00] <seb128> fabbione: grumpf .. so what do you want to do?
[07:01] <seb128> fabbione: I'll reupload a good part of GNOME for new version next week as said, I can reupload the libs with the right order this week to start if you want
[07:01] <fabbione> seb128: just do what you need to do... i am checking some extra stuff to see if i can actually recover it
[07:04] <fabbione> seb128: ok.. sparc is gone is to hell
[07:04] <fabbione> go ahead and don't worry...
[07:06] <seb128> fabbione: k :/
[07:07] <fabbione> seb128: well either i kill the entire port
[07:07] <fabbione> or we fork 30 pkgs..
[07:07] <seb128> fork for what?
[07:07] <fabbione> but given that the toolchain is not good.. i had rather prefer the former
[07:08] <seb128> 30 package doesn't seem to be a lot to rebuild
[07:08] <fabbione> seb128: there is a workaround to that problem..
[07:08] <fabbione> seb128: it's not enough to rebuild..
[07:08] <fabbione> you need to build changing linking flags
[07:08] <seb128> your build-chain is fixed?
[07:08] <fabbione> so it's NO option
[07:08] <fabbione> seb128: no idea..
[07:08] <fabbione> i will have to figure it once i get gcc-4.0.1 builded
[07:08] <seb128> if the build-chain is not fixed that's going to be tricky
[07:09] <fabbione> seb128: i will have to investigate
[07:09] <fabbione> seb128: thanks a lot for your support
[07:10] <seb128> no problem, don't worry :)
[07:16] <fabbione> elmo: ping+
[07:18] <elmo> fabbione: ?
[07:19] <fabbione> elmo: is it possible for you to kill all the sparc binary pkgs for breezy?
[07:19] <elmo> sure
[07:19] <fabbione> elmo: just asking.. don't do it right away please
[07:19] <fabbione> ok
[07:19] <fabbione> thanks
[07:20] <ogra_> elmo, did highvoltage approach you yet ? wrt edubuntu.org ?
[07:20] <seb128> elmo: can you sync glib2.0 (2.7.3) from exp please?
[07:20] <elmo> ogra_: yeah
[07:20] <ogra_> great:)
[07:20] <fabbione> elmo: btw.. did you notice that morgue.u.c is stalled at 3 months ago or so?
[07:21] <highvoltage> hi elmo.
[07:21] <elmo> seb128: it's not in experimental yet?
[07:21] <elmo> fabbione: oh, no
[07:21] <elmo> highvoltage: hi
[07:21] <sivang> seb128: I'm getting an error on another breezy box of mine trying to autogen a lib, 
[07:21] <highvoltage> elmo: how's that webspace for edubuntu going?
[07:21] <sivang> aclocal: configure.ac: 12: macro `AM_PATH_PYTHON' not found in library
[07:22] <sivang> aclocal: configure.ac: 14: macro `AM_PATH_GTK_2_0' not found in library
[07:22] <elmo> highvoltage: it hasn't happened yet, I'm working on it, and will let you know as soon as it's ready
[07:22] <sivang> seb128: what am I missing?
[07:22] <ogra_> seb128, what do you think about having some export calls in gnome-session and a gconf set of environment vars, so we could have a gui later to set environment vars without editing files ?
[07:22] <seb128> sivang: you need some -dev packages you don't have installed apparently
[07:22] <sivang> seb128: thanks
[07:22] <ogra_> seb128, breezy+X question indeed
[07:22] <highvoltage> elmo: thanks.
[07:22] <seb128> elmo: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/glib2.0/glib2.0_2.7.3.orig.tar.gz has it, it should be here since yesterday run
[07:23] <elmo> ok, maybe ftp.uk's being crap again, one sec
[07:23] <seb128> ogra_: what issue are you trying to solve?
[07:23] <ogra_> seb128, fiddling with .gnomerc and .bashrc 
[07:23] <lamont> elmo/mdz: what was the policy on promoting things from universe-> main for ports architectures?
[07:24] <elmo> lamont: same deal as normal, AFAIK?
[07:24] <seb128> ogra_: why the heck to you want to change these files from gnome-session?
[07:24] <Amaranth> no one has needed the morgue until all this X stuff so no one noticed :)
[07:24] <ogra_> seb128, i dont want to change these files, but want a process to extend your PATH for example ...
[07:24] <ogra_> seb128, even windows has a gui to set nv vars
[07:24] <elmo> seb128: done
[07:24] <ogra_> env
[07:24] <lamont> elmo: ok...  binutils-hppa64 is universe, needs to be main (gcc-4.0 build-dep), and there are 3-4 palo packages that should move, too... email to mdz cc you?
[07:24] <seb128> ogra_: gnome-session doesn't seem to be the right place
[07:25] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[07:25] <ogra_> seb128, and this issue comes up once a month in -users
[07:25] <seb128> ogra_: users are lame
[07:25] <ogra_> seb128, other suggestions where to introduce such a feature ?
[07:25] <seb128> ogra_: they know what PATH is but not how to edit a file?
[07:25] <Amaranth> PATH has been around since the DOS days for them though
[07:26] <seb128> and why do you need to set PATH?
[07:26] <ogra_> seb128, the prob is tha PATH is handled in different files... until a user discovers .gnmerc might do it, he already fucked up his /etc/environment /etc/profile ~/.bashrc ~/.bash_profile
[07:26] <elmo> lamont: binutils-hppa64 should be easy, it's part of an existing main package, the others are relatively small and harmless too.  so, mail might work, but i believe there's some hoops to jump through these days
[07:27] <seb128> ogra_: they don't have to mess with PATH
[07:27] <ogra_> seb128, its not PATH but any environment vars...
[07:27] <sivang> ogra_: what kind of env vars do you think they would want to modify?
[07:27] <ogra_> seb128, we have no easy way to do that
[07:27] <lamont> elmo: there should be hoops, given UVF and all
[07:27] <seb128> ogra_: and next you want a UI to set LDFLAGS and CFLAGS for people programming but to lame for that?
[07:28] <ogra_> dunno... some want ~/scripts in their path etc
[07:28] <seb128> ogra_: start by listing good reason to edit variables
[07:28] <ogra_> seb128, user demand ?
[07:28] <seb128> ogra_: good reason I said, users ask all sort of craps
[07:29] <sivang> ogra_: you're thinking of something like the set environment variables in Win ?
[07:29] <ogra_> seb128, yes, but its discussed quite often in -users... i'll collect some reasons over time
[07:29] <ogra_> sivang, yes
[07:29] <seb128> ogra_: k, do a spec
[07:29] <seb128> ie: a rationnal
[07:29] <ogra_> seb128, its not urgent, i just wanted a second opinion
[07:29] <seb128> then we will fix the it
[07:29] <ogra_> oki
[07:29] <seb128> there is no good rationnal for that imho
[07:29] <seb128> we already change gdm.conf to set a correct PATH for users
[07:30] <seb128> that should "just work"
[07:30] <ogra_> seb128, beside "others do it" ?
[07:30] <seb128> if they have specific reason I'm sure we will find how to fix that, but figure the reasons to start
[07:30] <ogra_> seb128, i'd see it as part of commandline disintegration
[07:30] <seb128> nobody should have to set a PATH even from an UI
[07:31] <seb128> or PYTHONPATH or whatever
[07:31] <ogra_> i.e. you install java from the sun package... you have to set some vars
[07:31] <seb128> usually if you start changing that, that's because you use the command line and you should be able to edit a file
[07:31] <seb128> no
[07:31] <sivang> seb128: you have any idea where lies AM_PATH_PYTHON macro? My autogen is complaining about it..
[07:31] <seb128> read the wiki on how to install java packages
[07:31] <seb128> sivang: python-dev (random guess)
[07:32] <ogra_> seb128, if you take the original sun package you have to... 
[07:32] <sivang> seb128: tried that :-(
[07:32] <seb128> ogra_: the point it to use packages
[07:32] <ogra_> seb128, i know
[07:32] <seb128> you workaround an issue (installing the jvm) which something totally orthogonal
[07:33] <seb128> sivang: automake1.7: /usr/share/aclocal-1.7/python.m4
[07:33] <seb128> by example
[07:33] <seb128> use a correct automake version :p
[07:35] <sivang> seb128: how do I know what the correct version is? :-)
[07:35] <sivang> seb128: or better, how do I know to find the right version when getting such an error?
[07:40] <seb128> sivang: I've already package launchpad-integration yesterday, don't bother with that
[07:40] <seb128> I'll upload tonight
[07:40] <seb128> sivang: and update-alternatives --config automake to set the default automake
[07:44] <sivang> seb128: ah no, I had a problem with refreshing my gedit package - I knew you were already packaging the lib, I just built from jamesh's baz to test 
[07:45] <sivang> seb128: acutally, I had to install 1.7, wasn't my default (it was 1.4)
[07:45] <seb128> sivang: k
[07:48] <pabs3> hi all, while doing some qa work for debian's xchat package, I looked at the ubuntu patches that scott provides. it seems ubuntu has included an xhosa translation for xsane in the ubuntu xchat package. is this intentional? was their an xchat xhosa translation, does anyone know where it might have went?
[07:50] <Kamion> Canonical paid some contractors to do Xhosa translation; it may have been part of that. Don't know whether it was submitted upstream.
[07:50] <mdke> i think the xhosa stuff is in rosetta, you should be able to find it there
[07:51] <pabs3> but, including a translation for a completely different package in xchat is probly the wrong thing to do, no?
[07:53] <Kamion> oh, I see what you mean
[07:54] <Kamion> sounds like a mistake, yes
[07:54] <pabs3> nope, no xhosa translation in rosetta
[07:54] <mdke> no, confirmed
[07:55] <pabs3> hmm, rosetta is nice tho
[07:55] <pabs3> anyway, cyas
 oh, python only knows ascii and unicode
[08:00] <sivang> seb128: darn, I did as you said about the configure stuff, and still I got alot of diff for the configure script
[08:00] <Amaranth> ?
[08:00] <lamont> export DH_COMPAT=1
[08:00] <JanC> the default encoding in python is ascii for normal strings
[08:00] <Amaranth> JanC: yes
[08:01] <JanC> and unicode for unicode strings
[08:01] <seb128> sivang: what is the size of the diff?
[08:01] <mdke> carlos, here?
[08:01] <Amaranth> JanC: yes
[08:01] <JanC> filenames are normal strings if they are not unicode
[08:01] <carlos> mdke, yes
[08:01] <Amaranth> JanC: yes
[08:01] <sivang> seb128: 42k
[08:01] <seb128> sivang: that's quite small
[08:01] <JanC> so you need to use encoding/decoding
[08:01] <seb128> autostuff patch usually do ~200k
[08:01] <Amaranth> JanC: There are things that are not unicode that python can't handle.
[08:02] <seb128> sivang: gzip it, what size?
[08:02] <JanC> it can, after encoding/decoding  :)
[08:02] <Amaranth> only if you make it drop things it doesn't understand
[08:02] <JanC> I think there was a discussion about this on python-dev recently
[08:02] <mdke> carlos, is there a page where I can view all the languages and status on (.e.g) the quickguide? Since rosetta was organised by language rather than by package I can't find it...
[08:03] <Amaranth> or somehow know the encoding
[08:03] <JanC> you should know the encoding ?
[08:03] <sivang> seb128: 4k
[08:03] <seb128> sivang: that's nothing for a package
[08:03] <Amaranth> nope
[08:04] <Amaranth> in ubuntu it's utf-8 which will work fine
[08:04] <Amaranth> except for broken packages and such that make things non-utf-8
[08:04] <mdke> carlos, this page gives me a system error https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/quickguide
[08:04] <Amaranth> if it's not utf-8 i don't have a clue what it is
[08:04] <sivang> seb128: ok, so I'll check if the already posted package (that I Sent you the link to) is ok, if so, that's still the package to use
[08:04] <carlos> mdke, yes, there is
[08:04] <carlos> mdke, but as you say, it gives a system error.
[08:04] <carlos> that's a bug, it should work
[08:04] <mdke> carlos, ah ok, is it filed? shall i do so?
[08:07] <JanC> Amaranth: I think most of the time anything 8-bit should work fine if you use the same codec for encoding & decoding  ;-)
[08:07] <Amaranth> i'm getting a unicode error when using utf-8
[08:09] <carlos> mdke, please, file it
[08:11] <mdke> carlos, ok i've filed it at #1511. I've also noted the difficulty in finding the page at #1510, although maybe that won't be accepted ;)
[08:14] <carlos> mdke, well, you have a link to it from the sourcepackage page
[08:14] <carlos> mdke, you want to see the translations for a concrete package
[08:14] <carlos> so you look for the package and then select "see the translations"
[08:14] <carlos> mdke, we just removed the duplicate list of sourcepackages
[08:15] <carlos> one for translations and the normal one from the normal "soyuz" functionality
[08:15] <carlos> mdke, anyway, if you still think it's not as user friendly as you think it should be, is ok to bug us about that so we can try to think a way to improve that
[08:24] <mdke> i went to ubuntu-docs but didn't see any links to it, but I'll have another go, and close the bug if necessary
[08:24] <mdke> carlos, ^
[08:25] <carlos> mdke, look at the column on the left
[08:26] <carlos> "translation sets" box
[08:27] <mdke> carlos, from which page?
[08:28] <carlos> mdke, the one you told me: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/ubuntu-docs
[08:29] <sivang> seb128: ok, last post from me to you about the gedit package still holds
[08:29] <sivang> seb128: so test it, and upload if you like
[08:29] <mdke> carlos, ok i see it! How do I find the +sources/ubuntu-docs page?
[08:30] <mdke> carlos, i tried some searches on https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources but couldn't find anything
[08:30] <carlos> then that's a bug on soyuz ;-)
[08:31] <mdke> ok i'll file that too
[08:31] <carlos> right, no source package found..
[08:31] <mdke> perhaps that is the cause of the system error :)
[08:35] <dieman> there we go
[08:35] <dieman> now ive got a hoary x server with i845G support
[08:35] <pitti> Hi
[08:35] <dieman> 945G rather
[08:35] <pitti> ogra_: did you recently happen to install an amd64 daily?
[08:35] <ogra_> pitti, nope
[08:36] <pitti> I tried this afternoon, and apt-cdrom seems to be broken
[08:36] <ogra_> pitti, but X is been very outdated here... and there were other issues reported to -users
[08:36] <pitti> ogra_: no, I don't even come that far
[08:37] <Mez> do the xorg changes affect xf86? 
[08:37] <ogra_> apt-cdrom is new to me
[08:37] <pitti> ogra_: stage 2 fails since it claims that my Ubuntu CD is not an Ubuntu CD
[08:37] <ogra_> oh 
[08:37] <ogra_> how old is this build ?
[08:38] <pitti> ogra_: today
[08:38] <pitti> ogra_: did you try colony 2? does it work?
[08:39] <ogra_> pitti, nope, i didnt try, but there were many reports that it doesnt...
[08:39] <pitti> so I bought an amd64 and can't install it *sniff*
[08:39] <ogra_> pitti, currently i'm waiting for the next colony for my first edubuntu CD tests
[08:39] <ogra_> pitti, hoary....
[08:39] <ogra_> and upgrade then...
[08:40] <pitti> ogra_: no, I just continue to use my i386 partition for now
[08:40] <ogra_> if you install anyway it doesnt matter if hoary or breezy... and apt-cdrom work on hoary to upgrade from it :)
[08:42] <pitti> ogra_: I don't install, I still have the hds of my old computer
[08:42] <ogra_> ah
[08:42] <pitti> ogra_: well, ubuntu-desktop is not installable anyway due to X breakage
[08:43] <pitti> so I'll just wait
[08:43] <pitti> and sorry for being OT
[08:44] <ogra_> heh, yes, next time ask in #ubuntu please :)
[08:48] <OddAbe19> how stable IS X anyway?
[08:48] <OddAbe19> for a dist-upgrade from hoary
[08:48] <ogra_> OddAbe19, dont do it
[08:48] <ogra_> wait a week
[08:48] <wasabi_> I would suggest you don't do it, as well.
[08:48] <OddAbe19> lol, that's what i was wondering
[08:49] <OddAbe19> what broke it? the GCC transition?
[08:50] <ogra_> OddAbe19, the X transition :)
[08:50] <ogra_> x gets modularized and the X11R6 paths dissapear completely
[08:51] <OddAbe19> oh wow
[08:51] <OddAbe19> that's quite a change
[08:51] <OddAbe19> i had no idea
[08:52] <ogra_> it happens upstream too...
[08:53] <OddAbe19> heh
[09:02] <doko> daniels: is xutils just broken, or does it get restructered? no, I don't mind an empty package, really.
[09:04] <ogra_> doko, saves bandwith :)
[09:08] <Lathiat> haha
[09:16] <wasabi_> Hmm. Nautilus crashes nicely while trying to access https
[09:18] <highvoltage> i like it more when it crashes spectacularly, that way there's a bigger chance that it will be fixed soon.
[09:19] <ogra_> wasabi_, https ? with nautilus ?
[09:20] <wasabi_> Yes.
[09:21] <wasabi_> Supposed to be webdav.
[09:22] <ogra_> ah...
[09:26] <wasabi_> and somebody should compile cadaver with ssl support
[09:47] <Keybuk> is gossip broken?
[09:54] <Keybuk> no, is me
[09:55] <thom> Keybuk: you're a gossip? we knew that already ;-)
[09:56] <Keybuk> lol
[10:00] <jammcq_ottawa> hey all, anybody know when/where the next Ubuntu developer meeting is going to be?
[10:00] <ogra_> jammcq_ottawa, no final word about that yet
[10:00] <ogra_> rumors about south america, canada and germany have been heard 
[10:00] <jammcq_ottawa> ogra_: thanks.  we're trying to plan our LTSP dev meeting, and we've picked Nov 3-6
[10:01] <ogra_> where will it be ?
[10:02] <jammcq_ottawa> Southwest Harbor, Maine
[10:02] <jammcq_ottawa> wanna come ?
[10:02] <jammcq_ottawa> anybody is welcome
[10:02] <jammcq_ottawa> this will be our 3rd annual event, and this year, I'm going to try and run it the way UDU was run. I was pretty impressed with that
[10:03] <ogra_> dunno nif i have the time... i would be interested as the edubuntu guy here, but we just ha release then and i guess i might have to do some promotional stuff...
[10:03] <jammcq_ottawa> sure
[10:03] <jammcq_ottawa> i'm just trying to keep it clear of the Ubuntu mtg
[10:03] <highvoltage> jammcq_ottawa: do you have some details up somewhere?
[10:03] <jammcq_ottawa> and I vote for Canada, if anybody cares :)
[10:03] <ogra_> jammcq_ottawa, make sure mdz nows about it, i guess he might be very interested
[10:04] <ogra_> jammcq_ottawa, canada in oct/nov ? 
[10:04] <ogra_> *shiver*
[10:04] <jammcq_ottawa> highvoltage: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WebSearch?search=BTS&scope=text
[10:04] <jammcq_ottawa> heh
[10:04] <jammcq_ottawa> highvoltage: sorry,
[10:04] <jammcq_ottawa> lemme get the right link
[10:04] <maswan> northern sweden in february? :)
[10:04] <ogra_> lol
[10:05] <jammcq_ottawa> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspBTS2005
[10:05] <ogra_> *freeze*
[10:05] <jammcq_ottawa> Sydney in April ?  nice :)
[10:05] <dnakata> i'm afraid if it's in the usa, a lot of people won't show, who would otherwise love to attend
[10:05] <ogra_> yeah
[10:05] <dnakata> canada would certainly be a slightly more politically accessible country
[10:05] <jammcq_ottawa> I agree
[10:05] <jammcq_ottawa> and i'm from the US :)
[10:05] <dnakata> australia would work too, unfortunately it's rather expensive to travel to from any major continent
[10:06] <dnakata> (as far as i know, at least)
[10:06] <bddebian> WTF.  We need to have SOMETHING in the US
[10:06] <ogra_> dnakata, our last one was in sydney
[10:06] <dnakata> cool
[10:06] <thom> bddebian: fix your government
[10:06] <thom> bddebian: then people might want to risk it
[10:06] <ogra_> bddebian, as thim said :)
[10:06] <dnakata> hehe
[10:06] <ogra_> thom even
[10:06] <bddebian> Nothing wrong with it any more than many other countries
[10:06] <jammcq_ottawa> heh, we tried, last november
[10:06] <dnakata> i should put a vote in for great britain
[10:07] <thom> bddebian: dude, the possibility of dmca arrests on entry is a pretty big turn off
[10:07] <maswan> bddebian: it is on the list of rather few countries that have put someone in jail for giving a presentation at a conference
[10:07] <highvoltage> really?
[10:07] <thom> jammcq_ottawa: nod, definitely
[10:07] <dnakata> well, canada's a bit large.
[10:07] <dnakata> by 'canada', are you implicitly saying toronto?
[10:08] <jammcq_ottawa> brazil would be FINE with me
[10:08] <dnakata> vancouver, calgary, edmonton?
[10:08] <dnakata> montreal, there's a good spot
[10:08] <highvoltage> lots of stuff are happening in brazil. it sounds like a free-software friendly place.
[10:08] <ogra_> dnakata, the woods !
[10:08] <jammcq_ottawa> dnakata: I think vancouver would be nice.  i'm tired of Toronto
[10:08] <dnakata> ogra_: yellowknifo!
[10:08] <ogra_> dnakata, we are supposed to work there ;)
[10:08] <dnakata> hehe, yeah vancouver
[10:08] <dnakata> totally
[10:08] <jammcq_ottawa> dnakata: montreal is also a great place, or ottawa
[10:09] <bddebian> Oh you are right, I'd much rather go to a country where they'd just kill me on site
[10:10] <ogra_> bddebian, they do this in canada ? o_O
[10:10] <jammcq_ottawa> ok, so apparently the Time/Place hasn't been decided yet
[10:10] <jammcq_ottawa> hopefully it won't be Nov 3-6
[10:10] <ogra_> jammcq_ottawa, could be....
[10:10] <jammcq_ottawa> but /me thinks it will be
[10:10] <bddebian> ogra_: No not in Canada :-)
[10:11] <ogra_> bddebian, ;)
[10:11] <bddebian> ogra_: Though Jeff Bailey might shoot me if I go to Canada ;-P
[10:11] <ogra_> hehe
[10:26] <JanC> Amaranth, still around ?
[10:27] <JanC> or maybe seb128 ?
[10:28] <seb128> don't ask to ask just ask
[10:28] <JanC> I think this fixes python-xdg: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/680
[10:29] <JanC> at least, smeg works on my system after changing those 2 lines...
[10:30] <Amaranth> i'm willing to bet the DesktopFileID isn't right though
[10:31] <JanC> what's "right" ?
[10:31] <JanC> I don't see how it can be "right" in case of a broken filename...
[10:32] <Burgundavia> jdub, you know how in your 10x10 meeting you talked about MS p2p stuff? http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,2180,1835355,00.asp
[10:32] <Amaranth> JanC: You get unicode errors without that?
[10:33] <JanC> Amaranth : UnicodeDecodeError yes
[10:33] <Amaranth> ooh, finally a guinea pig
[10:33] <JanC> both with unicode filenames & with broken filenames
[10:33] <JanC> and both are fixed by this 2-line change  :)
[10:33] <JanC> (for me, at least)
[10:33] <Amaranth> do you know what file it's breaking on and what menu entry that file represents?
[10:34] <JanC> ah, not like that, I just copied gedit.desktop
[10:35] <Amaranth> and mangled it's filename?
[10:35] <JanC> I made 2 copies, both as "gdit"
[10:35] <JanC> one utf-8 encoded
[10:35] <Amaranth> which works, right?
[10:35] <JanC> the other iso8859-15 encoded
[10:35] <Amaranth> which doesn't, right?
[10:36] <JanC> I'm not sure about utf-8
[10:36] <Amaranth> get rid of it
[10:36] <JanC> the test-menu.py script is broken
[10:36] <Amaranth> have just the iso8859-15 one so we know which one you're working with
[10:36] <Amaranth> what do you mean broken?
[10:36] <JanC> everything gets converted to ascii before printing   :)
[10:37] <JanC> which obviously gives an error
[10:37] <Amaranth> oh
[10:37] <Amaranth> well, whatever, we're using smeg :)
[10:37] <JanC> I was first testing with it, that's why I'm not sure about the utf-8   :)
[10:37] <Amaranth> ok, you have your mangled gedit and smeg loads with that patch, right?
[10:38] <JanC> yes
[10:38] <Amaranth> ok, use smeg to move that gedit to another category
[10:38] <Amaranth> make sure it moved in smeg, then restart smeg and make sure it's still moved
[10:38] <mdke> ooh i have X in breezy. an unexpected delight. Not gnome though
[10:39] <Amaranth> JanC: done?
[10:39] <pitti> mdke: your session doesn't start and just hangs at the first progress icon?
[10:39] <JanC> how do I move ?
[10:39] <Amaranth> drag and drop
[10:40] <JanC> I can't move anything it seems ?
[10:40] <Amaranth> err
[10:40] <Amaranth> what version of smeg do you have? :)
[10:40] <mdke> pitti, it doesn't start and I don't get any progress icons. Sadly I can't get into the console either :) ctrl alt F1 doesn't work
[10:40] <JanC> I use the last smeg in breezy ?
[10:40] <Amaranth> ok
[10:40] <Amaranth> any errors?
[10:41] <JanC> started smeg from cli & no errors
[10:42] <Amaranth> you're dragging from right treeview to left treeview, right?
[10:42] <JanC> moving is implemented after 0.7.5 ?
[10:42] <Amaranth> no
[10:42] <Amaranth> 0.6
[10:42] <mdke> pitti, i can get a failsafe gnome though, with some xkb errors
[10:42] <Amaranth> so you have it
[10:42] <Amaranth> mdke: System->Preferences->Keyboard, reset defaults
[10:42] <mdke> k
[10:43] <Amaranth> as long as /etc/X11/xkb/xkbcomp is a symlink to /usr/bin/xkbcomp and you do that you shouldn't get any xkb errors
[10:43] <Amaranth> JanC?
[10:43] <mdke> i get 13 packages that don't upgrade on a dist-upgrade, most of which are core gnome components
[10:44] <JanC> Amaranth : xdg doesn't like unicode DesktopFileIDs or what ?
[10:44] <Amaranth> pyxdg likes _only_ unicode DesktopFileIDs
[10:44] <JanC> they weren't unicode before...
[10:44] <Amaranth> mdke: why don't they upgrade?
[10:45] <Amaranth> JanC: pyxdg deals in pure unicode
[10:45] <Amaranth> it converts everything to unicode objects
[10:45] <mdke> dependency problems, i'm still trying to figure out what is the cause, probably xlibs tho
[10:46] <JanC> I added some print repr() statements to Menu.py and they were not all unicode strings ?
[10:47] <Amaranth> something is very broken then
[10:47] <Amaranth> the moment pyxdg reads something from the files it should be converting to unicode
[10:47] <Amaranth> anyway, this is not our problem
[10:47] <JanC> they are all unicode now though
[10:47] <JanC> with my patch
[10:47] <Amaranth> ok, cool
[10:47] <Amaranth> this is not our problem
[10:47] <mdke> Amaranth, the xkb link looks fine, but its having trouble configuring xlibs due to an error "rmdir: `/etc/X11/xkb/geometry/digital_vndr': Directory not empty" that seems to be blocking the dist-upgrade, afaics
[10:48] <JanC> Amaranth : it's a filename, not read from a file
[10:48] <Amaranth> mdke: haha
[10:48] <Amaranth> mdke: that was a PITA
[10:48] <mdke> Amaranth, known?
[10:48] <mdke> good
[10:48] <mdke> bug is filed?
[10:48] <Amaranth> mdke: rm -rf /etc/X11/xkb/*, see what the error is now (something about a dir missing iirc), create an empty dir for it
[10:49] <JanC> Amaranth, look at the original code:
[10:49] <JanC> self.DesktopFileID = os.path.join(prefix,filename).replace("/", "-")
[10:49] <Amaranth> after xlibs is installed reinstall xkeyboard-config (dunno if you need this or not)
[10:49] <Amaranth> JanC: *beats lanius*
[10:49] <Amaranth> ok, this is not our problem
[10:49] <Amaranth> come on, you never answered me
[10:49] <mdke> Amaranth, ok i will try that workaround, but is the problem filed as a bug do you know? if not, I'll search b.u.c
[10:50] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[10:50] <Amaranth> daniels is busy with other things
[10:50] <mdke> in that case, doubly important to file a bug
[10:50] <Amaranth> JanC: what happens when you drag something from the right treeview to the left treeview?
[10:50] <mdke> that way, when he is less busy, he can handle it
[10:51] <Amaranth> mdke: oh, you need to recreate the xkbcomp link afterward
[10:52] <JanC> Amaranth : hm, seems like it works when I drop on _some_ folders & not on others ?
[10:53] <mdke> Amaranth, #12743 looks like what I have
[10:53] <Amaranth> JanC: Yes, it won't work if you drop it on the 'Other' menu.
[10:53] <mdke> :)
[10:53] <JanC> Amaranth : yeah, that seems to be the issue  :)
[10:54] <JanC> that's another bug ?
[10:54] <Amaranth> no
[10:54] <Amaranth> just the way the menu system works
[10:54] <JanC> strange...
[10:54] <Amaranth> other is for things the menu system couldn't sort into anything else
[10:54] <Amaranth> anyway, your busted gedit moved?
[10:55] <Amaranth> and stayed moved in smeg?
[10:55] <Amaranth> if so, restart gnome-panel and see if it matches smeg
[10:56] <JanC> moved & restarted & still at the same location
[10:56] <JanC> now restarting gnome-panel
[11:01] <Amaranth> ping me when you find out
[11:01] <JanC> Amaranth : one didn't get moved
[11:01] <Amaranth> which one?
[11:02] <Amaranth> the one you mangled?
[11:02] <JanC> I can't see...
[11:02] <Amaranth> heh
[11:02] <JanC> they are all listed as "Tekst-editor" in the menu  ;-)
[11:02] <Amaranth> *sigh*
[11:02] <Amaranth> the one you mangled didn't get moved
[11:02] <Amaranth> which means your patch won't do it
[11:03] <Amaranth> i'll look at how libgnome-menu handles it after i wake up
[11:04] <JanC> Amaranth : where are changes saved ?
[11:05] <Amaranth> ~/.config/menus/applications.menu ~/.local/share/desktop-directories/ ~/.local/share/applications/
[11:05] <Lathiat> sounds like a bundle of fun
[11:05] <JanC> ah, forgot about .config
[11:05] <Lathiat> i am unenvious
[11:07] <JanC> Amaranth : maybe files with bad filenames should just be ignored ?
[11:07] <Amaranth> not if the menu doesn't ignore them
[11:08] <JanC> does the menu spec have a spec for translating impossible filenames ?  :)
[11:08] <Lathiat> heh
[11:10] <Amaranth> no
[11:10] <JanC> so this is undefined behaviour...   :-/
[11:12] <JanC>  DesktopFileID is something internal from python-xdg, nothing from the menu-spec ?
[11:21] <Amaranth> no, it's in the menu spec
[11:27] <Amaranth> it's pretty goofy, actually
 takes a DesktopFileID
[11:27] <bob2> oh, wow, there're x40 tablets now
[11:28] <Amaranth> which is generally just the filename but it might have a prefix on it depending on where it came from or other xml in the menu
[11:28] <Amaranth> bob2: slashdot beat you to it by about 2 weeks :)
[11:28] <bob2> I dont read slashdot
[11:29] <bob2> they look kinda arse, tho
[11:29] <Amaranth> yeah, and you probably can't drop them from a two-story window onto concrete :)
[11:29] <JanC> Amaranth : then you can't fix this
[11:29] <Amaranth> JanC: sure i can, i just have to use the same cheap hack libgnome-menu/glib uses
[11:30] <ogra_> hmm, we have no mediawiki package ? 
[11:31] <JanC> Amaranth : they don't implement this
[11:31] <JanC> the entry is available in the menu
[11:31] <Amaranth> JanC: they must, you said your mangled gedit showed up
[11:31] <JanC> but when you click it, it says it can't find it  :)
[11:31] <Burgundavia> ok, this is cool --> http://myscreen.org
[11:31] <Amaranth> haha
[11:32] <Amaranth> JanC: file a bug in gnome's bugzilla against libgnome-menu
[11:32] <Amaranth> let them decide what to do about it before 2.12 so i can make smeg match
[11:34] <Amaranth> oh, and please CC alleykat@gmail.com
[11:35] <JanC> I'll go to bed after filing the bug too, have to get up early...   :-/
[12:02] <Mez> is ubuntu doing a slang2 transition?