[12:40] <NTFS_> Virtuall :)
[12:40] <Virtuall> FS :)
[12:40] <Ubuntunec> :)
[12:40] <Virtuall> lol
[12:41] <Ubuntunec> nado nik pridumatj
[12:41] <Ubuntunec> Admin_
[12:41] <Ubuntunec> :)
[12:41] <Admin_> :)
[12:41] <Admin_> hi all
[12:41] <Ubuntunec> zdarovo
[12:41] <Ubuntunec> :D
[12:41] <Ubuntunec> FiSdjuk
[12:41] <Admin_> daroff , daroff
[12:42] <Admin_> but in this channel we need to talk in English
[12:42] <Admin_> :)
[12:42] <Ubuntunec> yeap
[12:42] <Ubuntunec> i know
[12:42] <Admin_> cuz i think that not all people in this channel understand our Crazy Russian
[12:42] <Admin_> :)
[12:44] <Ubuntunec> Crazy Latvians who speak russian
[12:44] <Admin_> :)
[12:44] <Admin_> i'm Russian in LV
[12:44] <Admin_> :)))
[12:44] <Ubuntunec> its not interesent for other peoples
[12:44] <Ubuntunec> i think
[12:44] <Ubuntunec> :)
[12:44] <Ubuntutus> :)
[12:44] <Admin_> yeap
[12:45] <Admin_> but for other people *
[12:45] <Virtuall> when the meeting starts, will there be _m or what? (never was on any)
[12:45] <Nafallo> Virtuall: nope :-)
[12:45] <Nafallo> Virtuall: we just hope that everyone plays by the rules in those _open_ meetings :-)
[12:46] <Admin_> :))
[12:46] <Admin_> Democracy ...
[12:46] <Admin_> :)
[12:46] <FSystem> emm....
[12:46] <Virtuall> :)
[12:46] <Nafallo> and most of all: Ubuntu :-)
[12:47] <Admin_> :)
[12:47] <Admin_> ubuntu rlz
[12:47] <Admin_> :
[12:47] <Admin_> :)
[12:47] <Admin_> i'm on it now
[12:47] <FSystem> hehe.....
[12:47] <Admin_> :)
[12:47] <FSystem> Admin_ translate plz
[12:48] <Admin_> :)
[12:48] <Virtuall> ubuntu here, ubuntu there, ubuntu everywhere :)
[12:48] <Admin_> Virtuall i , we have UTC +2 ?
[12:48] <Admin_> are *
[12:48] <Nafallo> but anyways. 3h12m till the meeting ;-). I should see what my gf wanted. bbl
[12:49] <Nafallo> Admin_: topic... date -u :-)
[12:49] <Virtuall> +3
[12:49] <Virtuall> :)
[12:50] <Admin_> :)
[01:01] <Nafallo> hi mako! :-)
[01:03] <mako> hey there
[01:04] <Nafallo> mako: got time to tell me if anything more is needed on my wiki-page? :-)
[01:04] <comadreja> hello mako...
[01:05] <comadreja> nice to meet you
[01:05] <mako> i might.. we have a few hours.. i'm a bit stressed out trying to get caught up on email and such
[01:05] <Nafallo> mako: no rush. ogra already approved it. you might wait to approve it "in meeting" ;-)
[01:06] <mako> ogra and i rarely disagree
[01:06] <ogra> :)
[01:06] <Nafallo> hehe
[01:06] <mako> at least in this regard
[01:06] <comadreja> hey ogra
[01:06] <ogra> hey
[01:06] <Nafallo> morning ogra :-)
[01:06] <comadreja> could you check mine too ?
[01:06] <ogra> comadreja, what should i check... i know your work ;) no need for that ;)
[01:07] <comadreja> oh, thanks. Do you think a link to my resume could be useful ?
[01:07] <comadreja> or is that too much ?
[01:07] <ogra> on the agenda ? 
[01:07] <ogra> do it !
[01:07] <comadreja> oh, nopes, on my wiki page
[01:07] <comadreja> cool
[01:08] <ogra> i think the wikipage and the work you did so far are enough for membership...
[01:08] <Admin_> hi mako
[01:08] <kolcvk> :)
[01:08] <comadreja> awesome, that makes me happy
[01:08] <kolcvk> mako : Virtuall & me have founded an Ubuntu LV Team
[01:08] <mako> hey
[01:11] <mako> kolcvk: cool
[01:11] <mako> kolcvk: that sounds really great! :)
[01:11] <mako> kolcvk: do you guys have a site or anything written up ?
[01:16] <Virtuall> we... almost have a site :)
[01:16] <mako> Virtuall: :)
[01:18] <Virtuall> we're currently having some little problems with our server, so we can't show it. bu it's blank anyway :)
[01:24] <Virtuall> ...maybe i'm too stupid, but don't get it how to use rosetta. it says  Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page. ??? :( where do I get such a permission?
[01:25] <mdke> Virtuall, the pages are down right now
[01:26] <Virtuall> ok...
[01:27] <ogra> Virtuall, but initially you should have a launchpad account anyway
[01:27] <ogra> s/initially/for a start
[01:27] <Virtuall> I do
[01:27] <mdke> yeah he will have one
[01:27] <ogra> :)
[01:27] <mdke> otherwise it would tell him to login :)
[01:27] <Virtuall>  Logged in as Danko Alexeyev  
[01:28] <ogra> true
[01:31] <kolcvk> http://off.lv/ubuntu-linux
[01:31] <kolcvk> its not really done yet
[01:31] <kolcvk> but i think in 24h we can make it
[01:40] <kolcvk> my net lags ...
[01:41] <Virtuall> it does :(
[01:41] <kolcvk> yeap
[01:41] <kolcvk> but not so terrible as it were
[01:42] <kolcvk> right now its little bit faster
[02:18] <Virtuall> bad day bad day :(((
[02:19] <kolcvk> yeap
[02:22] <Seveas> 1:38 and counting...
[02:24] <kolcvk> 1:37
[02:24] <Virtuall> 1:36
[02:24] <kolcvk> Seveas hi (c) Admin_
[02:24] <Seveas> lol :)
[02:24] <Seveas> hi
[02:25] <kolcvk> Virt lets just show ETA every 15 mins ok ?
[02:26] <Virtuall> damnit... deleted whole off.lv free dns db by specifying wrong WHERE :((( like losing all the source wasn't enough
[02:26] <Virtuall> why I always think of doing backup when it;'s too late?
[02:27] <kolcvk> :)))
[02:28] <slomo> Virtuall: because backups are only needed when it's too late? ;)
[02:28] <Nafallo> Virtuall: cause you're not running backuppc anywhere? ;-)
[02:32] <Virtuall> :(
[02:48] <Mez> poop
[02:48] <Amaranth> naughty
[02:48] <Amaranth> this'll be the first meeting i make it to since i got accepted as a member (missed that one too)
[02:49] <Mez> lol
[02:49] <Mez> I noticed
[02:49] <Mez> I forgot the meeting was today
[02:49] <Mez> heheh :D
[02:49] <Amaranth> you've been replaced with a shell script, how do you feel? :)
[02:51] <Amaranth> nice
[02:51] <Mez> Amaranth, the shell script hasnt even been run yet
[02:51] <Mez> still wiaintg on elmo
[02:57] <Mez> Hey JRe, hows Katapult coming along/
[02:58] <Amaranth> Mez: we still have an hour
[02:58] <mdke> so impatient you guys :)
[02:58] <REBELinBLUE> hey Mez
[02:58] <Amaranth> nah, that's not impatient, this is:
[02:58] <Amaranth> START THE DAMN MEETING BEFORE I FALL ASLEEP
[02:58] <Amaranth> ;)
[02:59] <Amaranth> brb
[02:59] <ogra> Amaranth, get some coffee, its anyway to warm to sleep for you
[02:59] <Amaranth> too warm?
[02:59] <Mez> Amaranth, it's in an hour
[02:59] <Amaranth> Mez: That's what I said. :P
[02:59] <ogra> Amaranth, didnt you speak about 39C ?
[02:59] <seth_k> hiya Stephen, guess IPFM got killed eh
[03:00] <REBELinBLUE> that it did seth
[03:00] <REBELinBLUE> :(
[03:00] <Amaranth> ogra: That's this weekend, it's on 20C right now.
[03:00] <Mez> oh, hey seth_k didnt see you hiding there
[03:00] <ogra> ahh
[03:00] <seth_k> so release it under GPL :D
[03:00] <REBELinBLUE> thinking about it
[03:00] <seth_k> i wubbles you
[03:00] <REBELinBLUE> need to go through and check for IPS code first
[03:00] <seth_k> I see
[03:00] <Amaranth> brb, rebooting
[03:00] <seth_k> mako, are you up and about yet?
[03:00] <JRe> hey Mez 
[03:01] <Mez> seth, he's around... been idle 3 mins
[03:01] <JRe> Mez: Katapult is under heavy inspection ;)
[03:01] <seth_k> hence the ping Mez...
[03:02] <mako> seth_k: yes
[03:02] <seth_k> mako, was needing to talk to you about my signed CoC. I sent you an e-mail a week ago but I'm sure the universe exploded in your inbox due to debconf ;)
[03:03] <Amaranth> ok, now for morrowind
[03:03] <Amaranth> ping me if i'm not here for the meeting
[03:05] <ogra> seth_k, if universe explodes thats a bug, contact the MOTU ;)
[03:05] <Mez> ogra: exactly what I thought
[03:05] <seth_k> ogra: well played
[03:05] <Mez> Amaranth, it wouldnt be the first time you've misse a meeting though (come on - you missed yourself beomcing a member)
[03:06] <Mez> but ogra: I thought it was too cheesy to say 
[03:06] <Amaranth> grr
[03:06] <ogra> Mez, yes, i'm a cheesy guy :)
[03:06] <Mez> but be proud Amaranth you're the only person who got passed as being a memebr without being there
[03:06] <Mez> ogra: so am i usually - but that's just ... overkill
[03:06] <mako> seth_k: that's basically correct
[03:06] <Amaranth> i know, stop saying my name please
[03:06] <mako> seth_k: i haven't looked at every message i've recieved over the last week
[03:06] <mako> seth_k: and i haven't processed any coc's
[03:07] <ogra> Amaranth, you mean Amaranth 
[03:07] <ogra> ?
[03:07] <mako> seth_k: i'll get to it after the meeting
[03:07] <ogra> (to be a bit more cheesy
[03:07] <seth_k> I understand, mako. Just had some questions about mine since I think I'm a special case... key not signed into the strong set etc.
[03:07] <Amaranth> if i have to close this window i'll miss another meeting
[03:07] <seth_k> but thanks
[03:07] <mako> seth_k: hmm.. ok. why not?
[03:07] <Amaranth> ignored, see you in an hour
[03:08] <mdke> he's the only guy who wants to get some work done :)
[03:08] <mdke> good old Amaran_th
[03:08] <ogra> seth_k, you can let it sign by a notary and fax it
[03:08] <REBELinBLUE> hey mdke, thanks for the info you gave Mez 
[03:08] <mdke> or just sign it yourself
[03:08] <seth_k> ogra, that's what I needed info from mako about, using a notary as a proxy
[03:09] <seth_k> mako, I'm in the middle of the desert with no one to sign it for I think 300 miles around... crimsun was going to see about driving through but I think I'm gonna need to do the notary
[03:09] <mdke> seth_k, just sign it by hand and send it by fax
[03:10] <ogra> mdke how should mako know its the right signature ?
[03:11] <seth_k> indeed, that's why I wanted to talk to mako and get info if a notary was needed, if that was good enough proof for a keysigning too, etc.
[03:11] <seth_k> but he said he'd answer my e-mail and all the questions are in there
[03:11] <mdke> ogra, i don't know. In my case I included a photocopy of some ID, but I wasn't asked to, so I assume it isn't necessary
[03:11] <seth_k> btw that part of the wiki needs to be updated and expanded, once I finish running the gauntlet I'll have to do that ;)
[03:11] <mdke> which part of the wiki?
[03:12] <mdke> i'll take a look if you like
[03:13] <mako> seth_k: which desert?
[03:13] <seth_k> ah, it's not actually on the wiki, it's http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/newmember -- it's unclear that your key needs to be in the strong set for a GPG signature to be sufficient, and it's unclear that you need a notary to physically sign
[03:13] <mdke> ah
[03:14] <seth_k> mako: Oklahoma :P not quite a desert, but as flat and dry as one
[03:14] <mako> seth_k: alright
[03:14] <kolcvk> :)
[03:14] <mdke> afaik you don't need a notary to physically sign the CoC
[03:14] <mako> seth_k:  are you looking for maintainership?
[03:14] <seth_k> mako: no, I was accepted as a Member at the last meeting, am just looking to finalize that
[03:14] <mako> seth_k: oh, then no signed key is required
[03:14] <seth_k> maintainership, somewhere down the road... but not now
[03:14] <mako> seth_k: well, we can cross that bridge when we come to it them
[03:14] <mako> no problem
[03:15] <seth_k> the voice of truth speaks from the dozens of conflicting opinions I've been getting :P thanks mako
[03:15] <mako> so i've been very bad and haven't written up the new meeting minutes yet..
[03:16] <mako> seth_k: there has been some confusion
[03:16] <mako> can people verify that everyone approved last time is *not* on the agenda again? :)
[03:16] <mako> the rest of the agenda looks right to me
[03:17] <seth_k> none of those 5 names were on the agenda last time, iirc
[03:25] <Mez> evening sistpoty :D
[03:25] <sistpoty> hi Mez 
[03:26] <seth_k> you people and your evening
[03:26] <Mez> lol
[03:26] <Mez> Tue Jul 19 14:26:43 BST 2005
[03:40] <kolcvk> 20 mins remaining
[03:41] <Mez> kolcvk, we can all tell time :D :P
[03:42] <kolcvk> :))
[03:44] <Mez> well, at least some of us, last TB meeting everyone thought they were late
[03:44] <Mez> but they were early
[03:44] <kolcvk> :)
[03:44] <pef> hello
[03:44] <kolcvk> hi pef
[03:44] <seth_k> hiya pef
[03:44] <JRe> hey pef  ;)
[03:44] <pef> :)
[03:44] <JRe> pef: got your fridge full now ;) ?
[03:45] <pef> JRe: nearly ;)
[03:45] <ogra> \sh, no need to say this, we all know it
[03:45] <ogra> :)
[03:46] <siretart> lol
[03:46] <seth_k> but we love him anyways ogra?
[03:46] <ogra> sue
[03:46] <ogra> sure
[03:46] <\sh> *blush* 
[03:46] <ogra> breezy wouldnt be what it is without \sh ...
[03:47] <siretart> absolutly
[03:47] <\sh> yes..I should apply for xorg ,-)
[03:47] <sistpoty> hehe
[03:47] <ogra> hmm regarding that breezy is a mess i probably should reconsider this sentence....
[03:47] <seth_k> REBELinBLUE, are you just here lurking or are you interested in one of the agenda items?
[03:47] <Mez> he's lurking
[03:47] <seth_k> go work on IPFM :P
[03:48] <REBELinBLUE> mez said to come :p
[03:48] <seth_k> haha
[03:48] <REBELinBLUE> can't work on IPFM, I'm at work :p
[03:48] <ogra> what is IPFM ?
[03:48] <\sh> ogra: I'm not at fault...I'm not ,-)
[03:48] <ogra> hehe
[03:48] <seth_k> Invision Power File Manager... except it's not Invision Power anymore...
[03:48] <\sh> invisible power file manager?
[03:48] <seth_k> LOL
[03:49] <Mez> ooh, you're going to need a new name stephen
[03:49] <ogra> so it manages files for powermanagement ? 
[03:49] <\sh> Mez: why? 
[03:49] <Treenaks> ogra: no, power files
[03:49] <Treenaks> ogra: ;)
[03:49] <ogra> Treenaks, where is the difference ?
[03:49] <Mez> \sh - I was referring to REBELinBLUE 
[03:49] <Treenaks> ogra: yes, power files contain power.. so if you have a lot on your hd, your battery will last longer
[03:49] <\sh> Mez: jesus.../me is written with a before the n
[03:50] <seth_k> Treenaks, whoa! that beats the snot out of power cells!
[03:50] <ogra> Treenaks, hmm, and if i collect enough of them i have the power to become a dictator ? 
[03:50] <\sh> ogra: sabdfl?
[03:50] <Treenaks> ogra: not again
[03:50] <ogra> heh
[03:50] <mdke> ogra, now you're collecting power cells as well as apprentices? we're in trouble
[03:51] <\sh> I think ogra is mario..
[03:51] <ogra> mdke, i dont ave this thingie called IPFM
[03:51] <\sh> jump jump *ping* after 100 powercells a free life
[03:51] <mdke> ;) @ \sh 
[03:51] <ogra> mdke, i was just spculating how it works ;)
[03:52] <\sh> ok...max. 15 UTC...i have to leave the office until then *eg*
[03:53] <Mez> ogra, it's a web based file manager :D which is really good (as long as you remember to chmod things if you upload from the web adn want to play with tehm in FPT
[03:53] <Mez> (or run phpsuid)
[03:54] <Mez> ogra: but IPFM = great if you're like - on another comp or something
[03:54] <Mez> and I prefer konq with fish :D
[03:54] <seth_k> fish is overkill if you have a decent server
[03:54] <seth_k> konq + sftp
[03:55] <seth_k> mmm
[03:55] <nalioth> fish isnt a terminal emulator?
[03:55] <Mez> fish = ssh
[03:56] <nalioth> sorry, another shell?
[03:56] <Amaranth> i made it!
[03:56] <Mez> Amaranth, you made what ?
[03:56] <Mez> (other than smeg)
[03:56] <Amaranth> the meeting
[03:56] <nalioth> hmm, i run fish(shell) not ssh
[03:56] <Amaranth> i managed to squeeze in 3 killings beforehand too
[03:56] <mdke> Amaran_th, the meeting is finished already!
[03:56] <Mez> fish:/sourcegu@sourceguru.net :D
[03:57] <Virtuall> ?
[03:57] <bddebian> Hello folks
[03:57] <Amaranth> guys, you can leave
[03:57] <kbrooks> ok
[03:57] <Amaranth> the meeting is over
[03:57] <Amaranth> :P
[03:57] <mdke> ;)
[03:57] <Virtuall> hope it was a joke?
[03:57] <kbrooks> mdke: i'm going to be watching
[03:57] <mdke> kbrooks, sup?
[03:58] <Amaranth> oh, i'm supposed to, like, take part in these meeting now, aren't i?
[03:58] <kbrooks> here's my wiki page: wiki.ubuntu.com/KyleBrooks
[03:58] <Amaranth> i mean, i did anyway before, but yea
[03:58] <Amaranth> err, yeah
[03:58] <Mez> Amaranth, not really - you just have a vote on new CC members
[03:58] <kbrooks> anyone can comment on it in a PM
[03:58] <kbrooks> or in #ubuntu
[03:58] <bddebian> brb, grabbing coffee
[03:58] <ogra> Virtuall, mako opens and closes the meeting, dont worry ;)
[03:58] <Mez> kbrooks, are you trying today for membership?
[03:59] <kbrooks> anyway, as said before, ill be watching
[03:59] <kbrooks> Mez: no, and I don't want to yet
[03:59] <Nafallo> ogra, tseng: you're testimonial persons for me? :-)
[03:59] <ed1t> and watches*
[03:59] <ogra> Nafallo, sure
[03:59] <tseng> Nafallo: no you suck
[03:59] <ogra> hehe
[03:59] <Nafallo> tseng: hehe ;-)
[03:59] <tseng> Nafallo: ill be giving you a thumbs down
[03:59] <nalioth> ed1t: kbrooks" y'all dont fight over the popcorn
[03:59] <seth_k> holy crap kbrooks you killed the Java page!
[03:59] <Amaranth> oh, my clock is actually on UTC right now
[03:59] <ed1t> its already mine!
[04:00] <Amaranth> hehe, i was trying to convert
[04:00] <tseng> Nafallo: yes, if i can be here
[04:00] <mdke> kbrooks, i like the Java page, nice one
[04:00] <tseng> if not someone can give you a sterling recommendation in my place
[04:00] <kbrooks> seth_k: i killed the methods and left only the legal method
[04:00] <mako> alright
[04:00] <nalioth> |rockinnerd|: no nomex suit?
[04:00] <Nafallo> tseng: :-)
[04:00] <mako> Tue Jul 19 14:00:36 UTC 2005   UTC-0
[04:00] <\sh> wow
[04:00] <kbrooks> mako: you might want to look at my wiki page.
[04:00] <\sh> this guy appears just in time
[04:01] <seth_k> kbrooks, you killed the link to JavaPackageBuildNewVersions , which has detailed instructions
[04:01] <Amaranth> shh!
[04:01] <Seveas> dinf-dong
[04:01] <Seveas> meeting time :)
[04:01] <Virtuall> :)
[04:01] <|rockinnerd|> <soft laugh>
[04:01] <mako> kbrooks: what am i supposed to be seeing
[04:01] <mako> Kamion: around?
[04:01] <Seveas> Everybody please state your name for the record and to start the meeting :)
[04:01] <mako> let me find the rest of the CC
[04:02] <kbrooks> Kyle Brooks
[04:02] <Seveas> mako, good point :)
[04:02] <|rockinnerd|> Christopher L. Cmolik
[04:02] <kolcvk> Konstantin Kolcov
[04:02] <comadreja> Jorge Daza
[04:02] <sistpoty> Stefan Potyra
[04:02] <mdke> Matthew East
[04:02] <Amaranth> Travis Watkins
[04:02] <nalioth> me is Marek Spruell
[04:02] <mako> Seveas: thanks
[04:02] <tseng> Brandon Hale.
[04:02] <mako> we're still 3/4 members down
[04:02] <kinjoo> Josh Kress
[04:03] <ed1t> BSOD
[04:03] <ed1t> sorry im on windows heh
[04:03] <Mez> well we gotta wait for the others anyways
[04:03] <ogra> yep
[04:03] <kbrooks> yup
[04:04] <kbrooks> Mez: movie style, ehu?
[04:04] <kbrooks> eh*

[04:04] <Mez> kbrooks: popcorn :D
[04:04] <Nafallo> hmm, to late to make popcorn now? ;-)
[04:04] <\sh> I could try to upgrade to breezy again?
[04:04] <ogra> hey silbs 
[04:05] <mdke> morning jsgotangco 
[04:05] <seth_k> \sh you don't want to make it Xorg 6, sh 0...
[04:05] <smurfix> \sh: after the meeting please
[04:05] <jsgotangco> hello
[04:05] <Seveas> Final agenda for today (if the CC shows up) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[04:05] <|rockinnerd|> s/my/his
[04:05] <jsgotangco> just started?
[04:05] <mdke> jsgotangco, not yet
[04:05] <\sh> smurfix: no not anymore...until I see the light
[04:05] <mako> so sabdfl should be able to make it.. elmo should not be too far away either
[04:05] <Mez> jsgotangco, we're waiting for the "Council"
[04:05] <Mez> mako, and Kamion ?
[04:05] <jsgotangco> ohhh
[04:05] <mako> kamion has been idle for the last few hours
[04:05] <Amaranth> If they don't show up I say we smack them around awhile. :)
[04:05] <Seveas> everybody who wants to become a member: please prepare a short description of what you did for Ubuntu so far, what you are planning to do and your ideas and visions for Ubuntu
[04:05] <jsgotangco> how about we do a coup
[04:05] <mdke> elmo mentioned he would come
[04:05] <mako> at the moment, i'm the only one here
[04:05] <mako> yes, elmo should be here
[04:06] <Mez> mako, elmo and kamion have been idle for the same amount of time
[04:06] <ogra> he isnt
[04:06] <comadreja>  Seveas: in the wiki ?
[04:06] <Alessio> hi allz
[04:06] <Seveas> comadreja, no
[04:06] <Mez> (near enough)
[04:06] <nalioth> comadreja: no for here
[04:06] <Seveas> comadreja, in a text editor, so that you can paste it in here leter :)
[04:06] <jani> how do members approved before hoary get accepted into launchpad?
[04:06] <jsgotangco> mako: where are you now in this world?
[04:06] <comadreja> ok...
[04:06] <Amaranth> they ask? :)
[04:06] <Mez> jani, you poke mako after the meeting
[04:06] <Seveas> jani, the members get approved in here
[04:07] <Mez> Seveas, already approved members, before the launchpad group was made
[04:07] <ogra> Seveas, jani already is approved iirc
[04:07] <Seveas> Mez, yeah, then poke mako :)
[04:07] <jani> I am listed as proposed member in launchpad, but I dunno who accepts us
[04:07] <jsgotangco> jani: sabdfl, mako, etc. in CC
[04:08] <Seveas> jsgotangco, afaik only mako does launchpad businesses
[04:08] <jani> ok thanks, I did not know it was poking drivern, I thaught launchpad was all automatic :)
[04:08] <mako> jsgotangco: i'm in the netherlands today
[04:08] <mako> Seveas: i should drop by :)
[04:08] <Seveas> mako, cool :)
[04:08] <mako> Seveas: i'm in eindhoven
[04:08] <Seveas> mako, I'm in Amsterdam now
[04:08] <kbrooks> i'm in canada
[04:08] <Amaranth> US :/
[04:08] <kolcvk> LV
[04:08] <Alessio> mako :)
[04:08] <Alessio> in europe?
[04:08] <Alessio> great
[04:08] <Amaranth> kbrooks: got a couch? :)
[04:08] <jsgotangco> nice
[04:08] <silbs> mako: elmo is on his way
[04:09] <|rockinnerd|> Us
[04:09] <kbrooks> Amaranth: yes. behind me. sit on it
[04:09] <jsgotangco> silbs: did you get the PDF to print btw?
[04:09] <|rockinnerd|> US sry
[04:09] <bddebian> US, PA
[04:09] <|rockinnerd|> US, OH, sewers of cleveland
[04:09] <bddebian> heh
[04:09] <silbs> jsgotangco: no, not yet. But I haven't really looked into it any further
[04:09] <ed1t> bddebian where in PA?
[04:09] <Amaranth> sewer city, iowa :D
[04:09] <mako> silbs: great :)
[04:09] <kolcvk> LV , Riga
[04:10] <bddebian> ed1t: Right next the the Philly airport right now (at work) but live in Schwenksville
[04:10] <ed1t> oo
[04:10] <bddebian> Cool
[04:10] <Amaranth> ok, we don't need to know anymore :)
[04:10] <ed1t> my roommate from college lives in PA
[04:10] <ed1t> richboro, PA
[04:10] <bddebian> Ah
[04:10] <ed1t> brb
[04:10] <bddebian> We need the East Coast LoCo ;-)
[04:11] <ed1t> lol
[04:11] <Seveas> bddebian, found one 
[04:11] <Seveas> :)
[04:11] <jani> mako do I poke you now or after the meeting re 'proposed members' on launchpad.Also about the fact that I sent a paper GPG fingerprint so that field could be filled in launchpad as well
[04:11] <Virtuall> do we start... today?
[04:11] <mdke> hey hno73 
[04:11] <bddebian> Seveas: I have been thinking about it
[04:11] <Seveas> Virtuall, as soon as sabdfl/elmo/kamion arrive
[04:11] <hno73> mdke: hi :)
[04:11] <kolcvk> Virt , we need to wait others
[04:11] <ogra> Virtuall, if the people tat can approve anything are here
[04:11] <tseng> bddebian: philly loco.
[04:11] <mako> jani: i haven't done a full audit to try to bring the website into sync with my file
[04:12] <bddebian> tseng: Well that was my original plan but I might be the only member. :-)
[04:12] <mako> jani: my file is still the official location
[04:12] <\sh> just getting another cup of coffee..ogra...if the others are starting...u have my vote+voice
[04:12] <jani> mako, ok thanks
[04:12] <ogra> \sh, take your time
[04:12] <Mez> mako, is the LP lsit of ubuntites up to date ?
[04:12] <mako> jani: the website is just for informational purposes at the moment.. and not guarenteed right
[04:12] <bddebian> mako: I'm sure you are swamped but did you happen to get my CoC?
[04:12] <ed1t> can we have East Coast LoCo
[04:12] <Treenaks> mako: while you're approving proposed members.. :)
[04:12] <ed1t> ECLoco
[04:12] <ed1t> heh
[04:12] <mako> bddebian: i haven't done coc processing in the last week. i mentioned that earlier in this channel
[04:12] <tseng> thats too wide.
[04:13] <bddebian> mako: Oh, sorry
[04:13] <Amaranth> So, is there anything on the agenda that can go on without the full council?
[04:13] <Treenaks> bddebian: how about a PocoLoCo
[04:13] <Kamion> sorry I'm late
[04:13] <Seveas> Amaranth, not really
[04:13] <bddebian> Treenaks: That's a good one
[04:13] <Seveas> Treenaks, eeeek
[04:14] <Amaranth> elmo!
[04:14] <elmo> RAH
[04:14] <Seveas> Treenaks, memorys of crappy pop-techno band ....
[04:14] <ogra> yay, elmo :=
[04:14] <Seveas> hi elmo 
[04:14] <ogra> :)
[04:14] <Mez> 2 down, 2 to go :D
[04:14] <kbrooks> almost here
[04:14] <Amaranth> We just need one more, right?
[04:14] <Seveas> Mez, you stole my words
[04:14] <Nafallo> Kamion: hi Kamion :-)
[04:14] <kbrooks> Mez: sabdfl, and?
[04:14] <Seveas> hi Kamion 
[04:14] <siretart> hi Kamion, hello elmo!
[04:14] <Nafallo> hi elmo :-)
[04:14] <kolcvk> hi elmo
[04:14] <|rockinnerd|> hi elmo
[04:14] <ed1t> bddebian installing...
[04:15] <bddebian> ed1t: Good luck ;-)
[04:15] <Mez> I didnt see maion arrive
[04:15] <tseng> its time to start guys, its going to have to be alot quieter
[04:15] <Mez> Kamion *
[04:15] <mdke> yeah let's try and calm it down a little
[04:15] <kbrooks> :)
[04:15] <highvoltage> elmo: are you really here?
[04:15] <mako> elmo: rock out
[04:15] <ogra> highvoltage, its only his meeting clone ;)
[04:16] <Nafallo> ogra: lol
 i think i might have to get an elmo clone. the first one is unfindable. anyone have any elmo hair lying around that i can borrow?
[04:16] <Seveas> can't we get an #ubuntu-meeting elma too ;))
[04:16] <ogra> highvoltage, voodoo ?
[04:16] <ogra> Seveas, we have one
[04:17] <ogra> Seveas, elma is the backend for revu :)
[04:17] <Mez> highvoltage, sladen might
[04:17] <Seveas> ogra, i know
[04:17] <kbrooks> highvoltage: i do ;)
[04:17] <highvoltage> ogra: we can try that. for now i've got to go home. cheers!
[04:17] <Seveas> but we need one in here ;)
[04:17] <ogra> highvoltage, ciao
[04:17] <highvoltage> kbrooks: hold that though.
[04:17] <Mez> so mako, are we going to start ?
[04:17] <highvoltage> ciao
[04:17] <kbrooks> :P
[04:17] <Seveas> or a maka for the launchpad approvals :)
[04:17] <Amaranth> highvoltage: I've got a 'tickle-me elmo', will that work?
[04:17] <mako> Mez: waiting for one more
[04:17] <mdke> tseng, *winces*

[04:17] <kbrooks> mako: who?
[04:17] <ogra> sabdfl
[04:17] <Seveas> kbrooks, The Boss
[04:18] <Mez> mako: is sabdfl turning up?
[04:18] <mako> Seveas, kbrooks: sbadfl or kamion
[04:18] <Amaranth> we need Kamion or sabdfl
[04:18] <Amaranth> yeah
[04:18] <Mez> kamion is here
[04:18] <tseng> we have Kamion 
[04:18] <ogra> mako, Kamion is here
[04:18] <Mez> Kamion sorry I'm late
[04:18] <tseng> if people would chill out
[04:18] <tseng> we would've have seen.
[04:18] <Kamion> stop the noise please
[04:18] <Amaranth> ok, hush
[04:18] <mako> alright then
[04:18] <mako> i missed it in the noise
[04:18] <mako> lets stop that
[04:18] <mako> and get to business so we can all go home.. or stay home
[04:19] <mako> the agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[04:19] <mako> is there anyone who has an item on the agenda that needs to leave soon
[04:19] <mako> as in *cannot* stay longer?
[04:19] <mdke>  [15:18]   * kbrooks chills out
[04:20] <mdke> sorry
[04:20] <mdke> slipped
[04:20] <jsgotangco> im about to crash
[04:20] <jsgotangco> :(
[04:20] <mako> alright, lets start from the top
[04:20] <mako> smurfix: you around?
[04:20] <smurfix> sure
[04:20] <mako> new loco team leaders
[04:20] <mako> mdke is at the top
[04:20] <mako> already a member
[04:20] <mako> and the italian team already exists
[04:20] <mdke> hi all.
[04:21] <mako> mdke: want to give us a short update the team and the changing roles?
[04:21] <mdke> mako, you bet, that's why I'm here
[04:21] <mako> please go ahead
[04:21] <mdke> so basically the Italian team has had some organisational problems in the past, so we have made a massive effort over the last month or so to make a structure which will resist any problems and generally rock. it is sort of inspired by the CC itself
[04:22] <mdke> I made a translation of our wiki page that explains the system
[04:22] <mdke> it can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianCommunityStructure
[04:22] <mdke> we are very proud of it :)
[04:22] <smurfix> mdke: Nice page!
[04:23] <Amaranth> ooh
[04:23] <mako> mdke: nice!
[04:23] <mdke> basically we have made a locoteam which resolves problems and attempts to integrate all the various areas of the community
[04:24] <mdke> sort of like the CC
[04:24] <\sh> back 
[04:24] <Alessio> :)
[04:24] <Seveas> mdke, rock on!
[04:24] <mako> it would be gthis sounds particularly relevant for larger groups
[04:24] <Amaranth> I have a feeling any team large enough to fit into that structure will be using it in a month. :)
[04:24] <smurfix> That about takes care of the "is the Italian team an official LoCoTeam" question. ;-)
[04:24] <mako> and i have no problems recommending this structure to others
[04:25] <mdke> Amaranth, thanks for saying so
[04:25] <smurfix> mako: +1
[04:25] <mako> for smaller teams of course, it migth be quite overkill
[04:25] <mdke> mako, :) any suggestions to improve are also welcome, naturally
[04:25] <mako> mdke: i'll take a longer look at it and do that
[04:25] <mdke> mako, merci
[04:25] <smurfix> mdke already linked it to the LoCoTeamRunning page
[04:25] <mako> i'm spending this week catching up from the last 1.5 at conferencers and such
[04:26] <mako> ok, that sounds great
[04:26] <smurfix> next is DankoAlexeyev
[04:26] <Virtuall> me
[04:26] <Kamion> overkill> yeah, the only thing I'm worried about there is expanding layers of bureaucracy
[04:26] <mako> mdke: thanks for all of the hard work.. and for bring it to our attention
[04:27] <smurfix> Virtuall: Care to tell us what's happening in Latvia?
[04:27] <mako> Kamion: yep.. for places where it's not necessary, it neeeded be there.. but it's a good option for probably the largest half-a-dozem teams
[04:27] <smurfix> your locoteam list entry is very new
[04:27] <mdke> mako, thanks go to the whole group: i will pass it on :)
[04:27] <Virtuall> what do you mean - what is happening?
[04:27] <mako> Virtuall: what is the current status of ubuntu in latvia?
[04:27] <mako> Virtuall: and how is your team going to change it
[04:28] <Seveas> I have been talking to one of the LV guys this week: they have created a team this week and want to create an Ubuntu Support center, the plans sound good but work still needs to start if I understood it correctly
[04:28] <smurfix> Virtuall: Teams usually consist of more than one person and show some team activity
[04:28] <Amaranth> s/change/improve/
[04:28] <Virtuall> currently ubuntu as any other linux distro isn't really popular
[04:28] <Virtuall> we're going to fix it
[04:28] <Amaranth> How?
[04:28] <jsgotangco> Virtuall: because of the popularity of software piracy?
[04:28] <Virtuall> actually, we aim more to popularize linux itself
[04:29] <Virtuall> jsgotangco, yes, that's too
[04:29] <Amaranth> jsgotangco: *cough*
[04:29] <Virtuall> "linux is free" isn't an argument here, windows is free too
[04:29] <Virtuall> ;)
[04:29] <Virtuall> so we'll have to find other ways
[04:29] <Virtuall> demonstrate the power of linux in public and personally
[04:30] <mako> Virtuall: that's very common in much of the developing world
[04:30] <Virtuall> create a webpage
[04:30] <jsgotangco> Virtuall: I can associate with that situation very much the loco team is a great way to popularize free software
[04:30] <kbrooks> May I comment?
[04:30] <Amaranth> Just speak guys. :)
[04:30] <mako> kbrooks: if it's on topic, just go ahead
[04:30] <|rockinnerd|> go ahead kbrooks
[04:30] <smurfix> Ahem, if you have something pertinent to say, just say it ;-)
[04:30] <kbrooks> Seveas: What is the purpose of the Ubuntu Support Center?
[04:31] <Virtuall> ?
[04:31] <Seveas> kbrooks, afaik Ubuntu support and linux advocacy
[04:31] <Seveas> but it's Virtuall's team, ask him :)
[04:31] <kbrooks> okay
[04:31] <kolcvk> as for "fixing " the Linux situation in LV i can tell you that many offices want to install linux cuz its free
[04:31] <Virtuall> well, yes, of course, support too :)
[04:31] <Mez> Is it an "online" support centre per se? or like, proper offices ertc
[04:31] <kolcvk> like proper offices
[04:32] <|rockinnerd|> Alright. I dual-boot windows and ubuntu.  I find that (a) windows has alltogether too many security holes, (b) ubuntu runs faster, and (c) ubuntu seldom crashes.  yes, these have been said before, but i just wanted to offer my opinion as a windows and ubuntu user as to the pros of ubuntu
[04:32] <Amaranth> Virtuall: How many people do you have? What is the status of lavtian translation in Ubuntu right now?
[04:32] <mako> please
[04:32] <Virtuall> I think we can support people in any way :)
[04:32] <mako> lets stay on topic.. we're talking about latvia now
[04:32] <jsgotangco> OT guys
[04:32] <mako> lets let Virtuall answer questions
[04:32] <kolcvk> Amarath we have about 9 people
[04:32] <kolcvk> but they are not regged in Wiki
[04:33] <Mez> Virtuall, so this is going to be offices etc so you can push things out better to the latvian people? if so - how's it going to be funded?
[04:33] <Virtuall> Amaranth, our team currently has 8 members and some are still thinking
[04:33] <kolcvk> ok sorry
[04:33] <|rockinnerd|> mako: i aplogize.  We were talking about fixing linux's image.
[04:33] <Amaranth> oh, and i spelled latvian wrong, sorry :)
[04:33] <|rockinnerd|> when i started typing my message
[04:33] <Virtuall> argh...
[04:33] <Amaranth> ok, slow down guys
[04:33] <Virtuall> Mez, explain the question please? :(
[04:34] <kolcvk> Virt can i answer ?
[04:34] <Kamion> 658 translated messages, 55 fuzzy translations, 553 untranslated messages.
[04:34] <Amaranth> The main thing is they have people, translations (?), and a plan.
[04:34] <Virtuall> kolcvk, sure :)
[04:34] <mako> kbrooks: this is for?
[04:34] <Kamion> ^-- Latvian installer translation state upstream
[04:34] <kolcvk> Mez
[04:34] <smurfix> Virtuall: Sounds like you have plans and people. I'd like to see them on your LatvianTeam page.
[04:34] <Amaranth> Kamion: You mean in GNOME?
[04:34] <Virtuall> <<< actually it was his idea aboout the team :)
[04:34] <Kamion> Amaranth: installer != GNOME
[04:34] <kolcvk> i have an Ltd.
[04:34] <Amaranth> oh, i missed that word :)
[04:34] <kolcvk> and we can make official Ubuntu Support Center
[04:35] <Virtuall> smurfix, we'll list them on our web, but currently there isn't any
[04:35] <Mez> so you plan to fund this kolcvk ?
[04:35] <Seveas> Virtuall/kolcvk what are your plans regarding translation?
[04:35] <kolcvk> we will translate the docbook
[04:35] <Mez> anyways that's something to be discussed at a later date.
[04:35] <Virtuall> Seveas, if you tell me how to start translating, i can start any time
[04:35] <kbrooks> mako: what? i simply asked you to see my wiki page because I might be a member one day.
[04:35] <Virtuall> currently i get "no permission" error
[04:35] <ogra> Virtuall, rosetta ;)
[04:35] <mako> kbrooks: completions mistake.. ignore it
[04:35] <kolcvk> and we will search some misspelling in the localizations
[04:35] <kbrooks> mako: ok, sorry.
[04:35] <ogra> Virtuall,(if its sorted indeed)
[04:36] <Amaranth> Aye, it'd be a good idea to go over all of the translations real quick.
[04:36] <mako> alright.. lets focus
[04:36] <Amaranth> It looks like they're all stale.
[04:36] <Amaranth> ok, sorry
[04:36] <mako> Virtuall: in terms of your center
[04:36] <Virtuall> ?
[04:36] <mako> there are no "official ubuntu support centers"
[04:36] <\sh> kolcvk: so u think about marketing linux (insert your distro here) in a commercial way??
[04:36] <mako> there is no official ubuntu support except the professional support sold by canonical
[04:36] <kolcvk> no 
[04:36] <Virtuall> :)
[04:36] <kolcvk> offcource not
[04:37] <Virtuall> but we MAY support people, m?
[04:37] <Virtuall> if we wish
[04:37] <mako> in general, we try to make it clear to people that locoteams do not represent the entire project
[04:37] <mako> and are not the official voice of the ubuntu project
[04:38] <mako> in general, probably only the CC as a whole can make decisions in this regard
[04:38] <\sh> I asked because of the offices and the Ltd. ,-)
[04:38] <ogra> they just coordinate local events, care for translation etc
[04:38] <mako> so i'm not sure how an official support center would factor in
[04:38] <mako> right
[04:38] <mako> that said
[04:38] <mako> if you guys, as ubuntu-lv, wanted to set up an ubuntu-lv support center, that's AWESOME
[04:38] <mako> and we would be very supportive of you doing it
[04:39] <kolcvk> we will
[04:39] <smurfix> Virtuall: so you should just drop the word "official", but other than that .. go for it
[04:39] <Virtuall> :) i'm not really sure about that :) kolcvk decides
[04:39] <mako> but if you're going to be charging money and connecting to revenue generation and business, we'd think very very hard first
[04:39] <mako> and probably say no
[04:39] <Virtuall> anyway it's not today. today we simply want a team
[04:39] <kolcvk> mako , no charge
[04:39] <mako> kolcvk: that sounds great :)
[04:39] <Virtuall> ok, 'official' >> ''
[04:39] <kolcvk> totally free
[04:39] <Virtuall> haha
[04:39] <mako> in any case, we can talk about the specifics once you guys know more
[04:40] <mako> so, we know a bit of about what you want to do
[04:40] <mako> want to talk a bit about what you have done so far?
[04:40] <\sh> s/crack/coffee/
[04:40] <kolcvk> yes
[04:40] <mako> it's already been mentioned that you guys may be interested in using rosetta to do translations
[04:40] <mako> quickly.. we need to move on
[04:40] <mdke>  [15:40]  < kolcvk> yes
[04:40] <kolcvk> we have a little plan on 30.07
[04:40] <mdke> argh
[04:40] <mdke> this damn laptop
[04:40] <mako> kolcvk: cool
[04:41] <Amaranth> mdke: don't touch the mouse :)
[04:41] <kolcvk> it will be a big event
[04:41] <Amaranth> an installfest?
[04:41] <Seveas> kolcvk, make a report of it and present it on the next CC meeting :) 
[04:41] <kolcvk> nope
[04:41] <kolcvk> ok
[04:41] <Virtuall> :)
[04:42] <kolcvk> Amarath we will show the people what is linux
[04:42] <mako> and coordinate with me about the cds
[04:42] <mako> kolcvk: that sounds great :)
[04:42] <kolcvk> and why it is free and so great
[04:42] <mdke> awesome kolcvk 
[04:42] <mako> it sounds like you guys have some great plans.. i'm looking forward to seeing them blossom
[04:42] <kolcvk> that's why we need more CD's
[04:42] <Virtuall> currently we simply tell everyone that linux is good and why. actually we were doing it even before we heard of ubuntu
[04:42] <mako> let us know what we can do to help
[04:43] <kolcvk> generally we're running out of CD's (cuz it will be big event , we nee more)
[04:43] <mako> we can talk about that later
[04:43] <kolcvk> need *
[04:43] <kolcvk> yes
[04:43] <silbs> fyi - LoCo teams planning events may want to consider doing something on 10 Sept - Sofware Freedom Day (www.softwarefreedomday.org)
[04:43] <mako> alright
[04:43] <Virtuall> later :) later :)
[04:43] <mako> silbs: ++
[04:43] <mdke> nice one silbs 
[04:43] <Seveas> silbs, /me will be giving a presentation about Ubuntu on SFD :)
[04:43] <Virtuall> 10.09... /me wrote down
[04:44] <mako> ok..
[04:44] <jsgotangco> silbs: ++  our loco team is actually co-sponsoring SFD in Philippines
[04:44] <kolcvk> me too
[04:44] <silbs> getting local press (esp if it mentions Ubuntu!) would be great!
[04:44] <mdke> mako, sorry i thought about something else I wanted to discuss re: Italy if this item is done
[04:44] <silbs> jsgotangco: great. Canonical is sponsoring it too, providing lots of CDs, etc
[04:44] <Virtuall> ok
[04:44] <kolcvk> oh , and we have an event on 255 day (sysadmins day )
[04:44] <mako> mdke: yes, lets do it quickly and try not to be here 2 hours :))
[04:44] <mdke> mako, ok
[04:45] <mako> mdke has the floor
[04:45] <Virtuall> kolcvk, what do you think if we contacted, say, LAKA about this? I think they're making some event too :)
[04:45] <kolcvk> ok
[04:45] <Amaranth> Virtuall: later :)
[04:45] <Virtuall> (we ourselves are still too small to organize something)
[04:45] <mdke> mako, we are setting up a domain at ubuntu-it.org and this includes web, wiki and forum. We need a tar of the wiki pages from elmo, but I spoke to him about it and he suggested we talk about it here as he was concerned about wiki splitting
[04:46] <Amaranth> wiki splitting bad
[04:46] <mdke> i think that it is clear that all locoteams tend to use their own wikis
[04:46] <mdke> this can help because of language things
[04:46] <elmo> mdke: how so?
[04:46] <silbs> mdke: why? (not arguing, just trying to understand)
[04:46] <jsgotangco> its perfectly acceptable especially if there is a language issue
[04:46] <Seveas> mdke, hmm, I am right now trying to get the NL wiki integrated in the official one
[04:46] <kolcvk> mako : can we get ubuntu-lv.org ?
[04:47] <mako> silbs: we have no mechanism to keep them in sync
[04:47] <mako> kolcvk: talk to sm	
[04:47] <Amaranth> kolcvk: later :)
[04:47] <Seveas> kolcvk, contact smurfix
[04:47] <mako> kolcvk: smurfix even
[04:47] <kolcvk> ok
[04:47] <mdke> because it is easier to organise indexs of the pages in a particular language, and also it is important to integrate the local wiki with the local website and forum
[04:47] <mdke> silbs, elmo ^
[04:47] <smurfix> kolcvk: sure
[04:47] <jsgotangco> (although i've seen chinese wikis about ubuntu and they're totally way out of topic sometimes)
[04:47] <mdke> also, the locoteam can better administrate the wiki
[04:47] <Mez> jsgotangco, just liek this meeting ?
[04:47] <tseng> why cant you make a localized "index" for your stuff on the main wiki
[04:48] <tseng> and branch off from that
[04:48] <kolcvk> mako : another "support" we have opened a little mirror for ubuntu distrs ,
[04:48] <Amaranth> Mez: you aren't helping :)
[04:48] <robitaille> the Canadian teams also went throught that debate and decided to have their own wiki for control reasons, and also the 2 languages issue in Canada
[04:48] <Virtuall> kolcvk, we already have? k001
[04:48] <kolcvk> yeap
[04:48] <mdke> tseng, anything is possible. However this would rather upset what every single locoteam is doing right now, with some small exceptions
[04:48] <Virtuall> you should at least inform me...
[04:48] <kolcvk> :)
[04:48] <Seveas> Virtuall, kolcvk please stay on topic and discuss LV things in private now
[04:48] <smurfix> IMHO it makes sense for locoteams to be able to admin their own wiki
[04:49] <silbs> mdke: there is a lot that happens in the wiki other than documentation. Splitting them potentially dilutes all the other pieces (art, calendars, dev topics, etc)
[04:49] <kolcvk> ok sorry
[04:49] <Virtuall> ok
[04:49] <tseng> well your reasons for doing it mentioned so far doesnt seem that convincing imo
[04:49] <tseng> are there others?
[04:49] <mdke> silbs, i'm aware of that of course.
[04:49] <Amaranth> well, we're pretty well split right now awyway
[04:49] <Amaranth> err, anyway
[04:49] <mdke> silbs, but the Italian section of the wiki is wholly in Italian language
[04:49] <silbs> i thought part of the moin switch was to have sections for languages - e.g. /fr, /it, tec
[04:49] <ogra> Amaranth, sadly
[04:50] <silbs> did that not happen? does that not solve your issue?
[04:50] <Amaranth> instead of seperate wikis we have seperate languages, which is required
[04:50] <Seveas> silbs, my idea too, but then all topics would still be in english which sort of defeats translation...
[04:50] <mako> alright guys
[04:50] <Amaranth> but things don't get translated in and out of all of the languages
[04:50] <jsgotangco> maybe Henrik can help on that?
[04:50] <mdke> silbs, it didn't happen
[04:50] <mdke> excuse me, fire alarm
[04:50] <mako> i for one am not informed enough about the technical issues involved here with what moin can or can't do or will or will not do to make any sort of informed decision
[04:50] <silbs> Seveas: by topics do you mean wiki page titles?
[04:50] <Amaranth> o_O
[04:51] <Seveas> silbs, yes
[04:51] <mako> does it make sense to have thie conversation on the docteam mailing list and then to get some sort of proposal if anything needs to be changed?
[04:51] <jsgotangco> mako: good idea
[04:51] <elmo> Seveas: wiki titles don't have to be in English?
[04:51] <Seveas> mako++
[04:51] <Mez> mako +1 :P
[04:51] <silbs> Seveas: but those don't have to be english (at least that's my understanding)
[04:51] <mdke> the work involved would be incredible
[04:51] <mdke> many other language wikis are not in moin format
[04:51] <Seveas> elmo, if you use /it switches it would be like wiki.ubuntu.com/GrubIssues/it
[04:51] <mako> i don't see consensus happening on this right now.. it's a good point but i don't think we can solve it right now
[04:51] <Seveas> if I understood it
[04:51] <mdke> if we have www.ubuntu-xx.org and forum.ubuntu-xx.org, what is wrong with wiki.ubuntu-xx.org
[04:52] <ogra> mdke, maintaining many more stuff ?
[04:52] <Amaranth> well, we try to keep everything together as much as possible
[04:52] <mako> mdke: we do have that in the vast majority of cases
[04:52] <mdke> it helps to integrate the parts of a site
[04:52] <mako> *many* locos have their own wiki
[04:52] <ogra> s/many/mich
[04:52] <ogra> much (grr)
[04:52] <jsgotangco> more DNS entries won't solvethe problem
[04:52] <mako> but please, can we have this conversation later?
[04:52] <Amaranth> ogra: you mean most?
[04:52] <mdke> IMO if you wish to bring locos into the main wiki, you will also have to think about brining them into the static website
[04:53] <ogra> Amaranth, that anyway...
[04:53] <mdke> so for now, the italian wiki effort dies?
[04:53] <Amaranth> ok, next item on the agenda?
[04:53] <ogra> members
[04:53] <Mez> Amaranth, members
[04:53] <Mez> I believe Razor-X is up first, who seems to have slept in
[04:53] <mako> mdke: my opinion is that it's fine as long as you also push for more global answer/position from the doteam
[04:53] <Seveas> KoushikRoy, here..?
[04:53] <smurfix> mako: ++
[04:53] <Mez> Seveas, he isnt here
[04:54] <mdke> mako, okay I can discuss it with henrik and others maybe
[04:54] <Seveas> StefanPotyra, here..?
[04:54] <mdke> perhaps smurfix will get involved too?
[04:54] <sistpoty> yes
[04:54] <mako> mdke: yes, make sure henrik is involved
[04:54] <mako> mdke: and smurt
[04:54] <smurfix> mdke: sure
[04:54] <mako> mdke: and smurfix 
[04:54] <mako> ok..
[04:54] <mdke> mako, henrik had no objections last time we spoke about it
[04:54] <Seveas> sistpoty, good, do the 3-line intro please when mako is ready :)
[04:54] <smurfix> though for now I think the Italians should do what everybody else is doing -- no sense in singliing them out for an integration effort
[04:55] <mako> ok.. you guys have your homework
[04:55] <mdke> thanks :)
[04:55] <mdke> move on then
[04:55] <mako> lets move on
[04:55] <smurfix> OK
[04:55] <sistpoty> what i did: revu with siretart :), trying to help out motu's where i can (ex.: MOTUGhc6transition, http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=96)
[04:55] <sistpoty> what i am planning: revu2, become a motu
[04:55] <mako> KoushikRoy, yes?
[04:55] <sistpoty> and plans: no idea really g
[04:55] <Mez> KoushikRoy = not here mako
[04:55] <sistpoty> s/plans/visions/
[04:55] <siretart> sistpoty also contributed packages and patches to existing packages in universe
[04:55] <Amaranth> This is Stefan Potyra
[04:56] <mako> ok.. Stefan Potyra
[04:56] <bddebian> sistpoty: Ohh <OT>, I was palying around with GH6 / haskell-utils last night
[04:56] <Kamion> mako: here, just didn't feel I had a lot to contribute to the earlier bit
[04:56] <mako> Kamion: yeah, i understand 
[04:56] <\sh> sistpoty: start again ;)
[04:56] <sistpoty> ok
[04:56] <sistpoty> what i did: revu with siretart :), trying to help out motu's where i can (ex.: MOTUGhc6transition, http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=96)
[04:56] <sistpoty> what i am planning: revu2, become a motu
[04:56] <Seveas> sistpoty, good stuff
[04:56] <Seveas> revu looks good :)
[04:56] <sistpoty> thx ;)
[04:56] <Amaranth> +1 :)
[04:57] <tseng> revu is one of the best tools the MOTU has
[04:57] <Mez> +1
[04:57] <Seveas> ogra, siretart ..?
[04:57] <\sh> sistpoty++
[04:57] <tseng> sistpoty++.
[04:57] <siretart> absolutly. sistpoty rocks!
[04:57] <sistpoty> thx :)
[04:57] <\sh> he is integrating very fast and he has knowledge
[04:57] <bddebian> sistpoty++ :-)
[04:57] <ogra> revu became our central tool in the MOTU world.... sistpoty++++ membrship for 50% of revu
[04:57] <Mez> MOTU wouldnt be where it si without REVU IMHO
[04:57] <jsgotangco> this is really nice
[04:57] <\sh> and REVU is HeMans tool 
[04:57] <siretart> hangs around in #ubuntu-motu and helps other newbee's in the motu world
[04:57] <ogra> yeah
[04:57] <mdke> good work sistpoty 
[04:58] <Seveas> ah, cool
[04:58] <sistpoty> thx again :)
[04:58] <Amaranth> aye, sistpoty rocks all around
[04:58] <Seveas> All we need is a CC answer now. Kamion, elmo, mako?
[04:58] <ogra> Kamion, elmo, mako opinions ?
[04:59] <Kamion> sistpoty: is Haskell a particular interest, or was it just something you stumbled across?
[04:59] <ogra> mako, do you like it ?
[04:59] <sistpoty> Kamion: not really a particular interest, i was just having a haskell lesson this term
[04:59] <bddebian>  haskell-utils / ghc6 is jacked (sorry, OT again)
[04:59] <Kamion> the level of enthusiasm from the MOTU cheerleading fraternity makes it difficult to say no ;-)
[04:59] <ogra> hehe
[04:59] <siretart> :)
[04:59] <mako> ogra: it seems quite useful
[04:59] <ogra> he deserves it
[04:59] <sistpoty> bddebian: let's discuss haskell-utils in #motu later
[05:00] <Amaranth> it's sped up the review process _a lot_
[05:00] <bddebian> sistpoty: OK, thx
[05:00] <mako> revu seems to quite rock.. i'm happy to approve your application
[05:00] <Kamion> (which is a serious point actually, I don't know how you guys would behave if you *weren't* incredibly enthusiastic about somebody, because that's all we ever see ...)
[05:00] <ogra> just to tell, revu just came out of nowhere it suddenly was there... noone asked for it etc...
[05:00] <Kamion> but by all accounts revu is a very handy tool, so I'm happy with sistpoty for membership
[05:00] <bddebian> Kamion: :-)
[05:00] <Seveas> elmo..?
[05:00] <Amaranth> Kamion: We have a lot of awesome members then, don't we? :)
[05:00] <mako> where is the source to revu?
[05:00] <ogra> Amaranth, we have :)
[05:00] <jsgotangco> nice observation
[05:00] <smurfix> Kamion: I suspect the others don't get to the CC meeting in the first place ...
[05:01] <ogra> mako, siretart can mail it to you
[05:01] <\sh> mako: it's in svn and everybody can get it...ask siretart 
[05:01] <siretart> mako: we don't have a public svn yet, we will set it up with revu2
[05:01] <Kamion> Amaranth: it's a serious point, if everyone's excellent we have no way to tell what your threshold is
[05:01] <bddebian> Kamion, smurfix: Well they haven't gotten to me yet ;-)
[05:01] <siretart> mako: revu is currently quite a hack, we are working on a clean rewrite
[05:01] <Amaranth> aye, they usually only apply because they're good very good things and someone tells them to
[05:01] <ogra> Kamion, more excellent indeed ;)
[05:01] <mako> siretart: if you want help with a baz or baz-ng archive.. it might be fun to learn
[05:01] <Mez> Kamion, isn';t excellency good enough for you ?
[05:01] <mako> anywya
[05:01] <\sh> mako: i will give them a lesson ,-)
[05:01] <ogra> Kamion, there is always space to improve :)
[05:01] <Kamion> no, I pay a lot more attention to "foo has done x and y and z" than to "foo is great"
[05:02] <Seveas> good call
[05:02] <siretart> mako: this is definitly an option, and I will investigate it. unfortunatly, both me and sistpoty will be very busy with university stuff the next approx. 3 weeks :(
[05:02] <Amaranth> Kamion: That's what I mean. Usually people don't apply unless they've been doing good things and someone tells them.
[05:02] <mako> lets move on
[05:02] <Kamion> sistpoty: (anyway, sorry, this isn't aimed at you, just a long-standing gripe with the membership process)
[05:02] <mako> SebastianDroege
[05:02] <\sh> siretart: I will create a baz archive from svn..:) 
[05:02] <smurfix> mako: getting this meeting back on topic seems like an uphill battle today...
[05:02] <Amaranth> jsgotangco: GTK stock :)
[05:02] <siretart> \sh: thanks!
[05:02] <slomo> mako: here i am :)
[05:02] <mako> hey there slomo 
[05:03] <siretart> sistpoty: welcome to ubuntu! :)
[05:03] <sistpoty> :)
[05:03] <Kamion> Amaranth: but different people have different ideas of what good is, depending on their experience, so we need to filter it somehow
[05:03] <Seveas> slomo, the 3-line intro please :)
[05:03] <ogra> yay, sistpoty welcome :)
[05:03] <slomo> what i did: backports, fixes for some universe and main packages. currently working on UniverseUnmetDeps
[05:03] <slomo> what i plan: becoming a maintainer/motu, work in the backports and MOTUMedia teams and help the MOTU whereever possible. also searching for some new areas where i can be useful
[05:03] <slomo> ideas and visions: help ubuntu to become the best desktop platform ;)
[05:03] <mako> slomo: SO PREPARED
[05:03] <Amaranth> slomo did all the translation infrastructure for smeg for me
[05:03] <kbrooks> slomo: ++
[05:03] <jsgotangco> its soo scripted i love it
[05:03] <Mez> lol @ mako - I was prepared too - but I never got to use my script before i got said yes to
[05:04] <Amaranth> he went from not knowing what gettext was to a full system that's mostly automated in a week and sent a patch :)
[05:04] <Mez> slomo's been doing LOTS of good work on backports aswell - near enough all of the PPC stuff (if not all of it)
[05:04] <ogra> slomo helped a lot in the MOTU world recently, +1 from here
[05:04] <bddebian> slomo has helped me a great deal with packaging questions, etc on #motu
[05:04] <Mez> +1 from me for backports
[05:04] <mako> what was this translations infrastructure you were creating? we also have rosetta :)
[05:04] <Kamion> slomo: what's your perception of how media handling's coming along (in Ubuntu and more generally)?
[05:05] <\sh> +1 as well...he's doing quite a lot...and what I saw great work
[05:05] <Kamion> I know it's not something I generally find myself working with - the installer doesn't have much need of it ...
[05:05] <Amaranth> mako: I meant making pot files and mo files and making all strings go through _() and etc
[05:05] <bddebian> slomo++
[05:05] <siretart> slomo also prepared a lot of patches to packages in UniverseUnmetDependencies, I already uploaded 3 of them. great work!
[05:05] <slomo> Kamion: i think media handling comes good along in the linux world in the last few years
[05:06] <tseng> I've worked with slomo on a few packages, quick learner, nice work
[05:06] <tseng> slomo++
[05:06] <Mez> slomo has done approx 20% of all backports submissions
[05:06] <Mez> so +1 for me
[05:06] <jsgotangco> wow
[05:06] <Amaranth> Kamion: btw, i have a feeling we've eventually start leveling out once we have enough members to generally handle MOTU things
[05:07] <Amaranth> err, we'll
[05:07] <Kamion> slomo: any particular goals for the future on that front?
[05:08] <mako> ?
[05:08] <slomo> Kamion: yes... i plan the inclusion of mplayer and transcode as far as it's legally ok for example
[05:08] <Amaranth> we have mplayer
[05:08] <Kamion> we have those in multiverse; better maintenance would be good, though
[05:09] <Kamion> or at least somebody who generally feels responsible for them
[05:09] <siretart> yes, slomo and I are forming a MOTUMedia team for that
[05:09] <siretart> i.e. giving love to multimedia related packages in multiverse and universe
[05:10] <slomo> Kamion: they are... ok i overlooked them... but then i'll try the improve these packages ;) and there are currently some packages missing to allow playing of some obscure media formats as monkey's audio for example
[05:10] <mako> slomo: alright..
[05:10] <Amaranth> slomo: and gstreamer plugins :)
[05:10] <Nafallo> slomo: true for transcode
[05:10] <ogra> slomo, everything thats legally possible is fine :)
[05:11] <tseng> slomo: do you want to take my gst-plugins-multiverse? :P
[05:11] <slomo> tseng: sure, when you want to give it away? :)
[05:11] <tseng> ill talk to you later.
[05:11] <Amaranth> ok, so...
[05:11] <ogra> slomo, its already quite good prepared :)
[05:11] <jsgotangco> as long as theres no dodgy formats :)
[05:12] <mako> ok.. i'd like to see some more before i settled on upload rights.. but i'm happy with apporving membership
[05:12] <Amaranth> +1 from me, slomo learns quick and has helped out a lot
[05:12] <mako> Kamion, elmo:?
[05:12] <ogra> mako, ??
[05:12] <ogra> mako, i would approve upload rights already :)
[05:12] <mako> ogra: you've clearly seen more than i :)
[05:13] <ogra> (if this were the right meeting)
[05:13] <slomo> jsgotangco: dodgy as in legally suspect?
[05:13] <tseng> ogra: id be happy to do that at the next TB
[05:13] <Amaranth> slomo: yeah, like w32codecs :P
[05:13] <ogra> yeps
[05:13] <jsgotangco> slomo: aye we're debating on that issue with docteam
[05:13] <\sh> guys...membership for slomo: + or -?
[05:13] <Kamion> mako: fine by me
[05:13] <Mez> +1 for slomo
[05:13] <Kamion> \sh: relax
[05:13] <\sh> actually...45 mins left..for me
[05:13] <bddebian> slomo++ again :-)
[05:13] <Mez> (back btw)
[05:14] <kbrooks> slomo++
[05:14] <jsgotangco> +1 great work
[05:14] <ogra> +1
[05:14] <\sh> +1 from me
[05:14] <mdke> nice work slomo 
[05:14] <slomo> Amaranth: yes, w32codecs would be a timebomb ;) i won't touch it
[05:15] <Kamion> elmo: 2 out of 4 votes so far ...
[05:15] <mako> alright.. we'll wait for elmo
[05:15] <elmo> ack
[05:15] <mako> :)
[05:15] <jsgotangco> :)
[05:16] <Mez> prefect timing as always elmo :D
[05:16] <Mez> perfect *
[05:16] <mako> elmo: we'll let you catch up..
[05:16] <mako> is DankoAlexeyev around?
[05:16] <kolcvk> yes
[05:16] <kolcvk> i will call him
[05:16] <kolcvk> plz wait
[05:16] <mako> lets move on.. we can come back
[05:16] <ogra> mako, thats Virtuall
[05:16] <mako> Christian Bjlevik?
[05:16] <Mez> nafallo
[05:16] <Nafallo> hmm, to late to make popcorn now? ;-)
[05:17] <ogra> Nafallo, !
[05:17] <Nafallo> hmm, that was the wrong paste ;-)
[05:17] <Nafallo> so far I've lurked around and helped out where I could. that includes a main upload for smartmontools yesterday (thanx ogra) and current lead for ubuntu swedish translators. I'll try to get my girlfriend to join the artwork team soonish, and she is already translating for us :-).
[05:17] <Nafallo> I'm involved in ubuntu security and tries to find bugs to squash now and then. this weekend we'll visit Mithrandir to get our keys signed and hang out :-). any questions?
[05:17] <Nafallo> :-)
[05:17] <Virtuall> here
[05:17] <Virtuall> DankoAlexeyev
[05:17] <tseng> Virtuall: you are next.
[05:17] <Virtuall> :)
[05:17] <Seveas> Virtuall, wait please
[05:17] <Virtuall> i see
[05:18] <tseng> Nafallo is more like one of two guys on Universe Security
[05:18] <tseng> they rock.
[05:18] <ogra> absolutely
[05:18] <mdke> security ++
[05:18] <ogra> Nafallo, is around since quite some time and already helped a lot in -motu
[05:18] <jsgotangco> i'm surprised
[05:19] <Nafallo> since warty iirc :-)
[05:19] <ogra> jsgotangco, =
[05:19] <ogra> ?
[05:19] <tseng> jsgotangco: that he isnt already a member!
[05:19] <mako> Nafallo: i've seen you around for some time and am familiar with your work
[05:19] <jsgotangco> tseng: aye
[05:19] <ogra> ah
[05:19] <mako> your wiki page isn't quite as developed in terms of documenting your contributions to ubuntu in any depth
[05:19] <ogra> yes, its somewhat late
[05:19] <Kamion> huh, I thought Nafallo was already a member
[05:19] <mako> but since i am alaready faimilar with the work, i'm happy to approve you
[05:19] <Kamion> (thus I'm happy to vote for him as such)
[05:19] <ogra> Kamion, make him one, quick :)
[05:19] <mako> Kamion: that was my reaction as well
[05:19] <Nafallo> mako: quickly made that one up yesterday night ;-)
[05:19] <mako> elmo: ?
[05:19] <Nafallo> Kamion: heh, surprise ;-)
[05:19] <Amaranth> i thought so too
[05:20] <jsgotangco> this is a no-brainer for sure
[05:20] <Amaranth> he has been around longer than me and i've been fanboying these meetings since 2 weeks after warty released :)
[05:20] <elmo> ack
[05:20] <ogra> welcome Nafallo then :)
[05:20] <Nafallo> thanx guys! :-)
[05:20] <mako> awesome
[05:20] <Amaranth> congrats Nafallo 
[05:20] <ogra> finally you can go for MOTU :)
[05:20] <Nafallo> that was a quick one :-)
[05:20] <mako> Virtuall: we've already talked to you in some depth
[05:20] <siretart> Nafallo: welcome to ubuntu! :)
[05:20] <comadreja> 7ws 7
[05:21] <Mez> mako, cna I shove the backports down the agenda slightly - I've just got to pop do somehting
[05:21] <Nafallo> siretart: I'll send you a REVU-mail soon :-)
[05:21] <\sh> Nafallo: welcome on board ,-)
[05:21] <mako> Mez: sure
[05:21] <Virtuall> yes
[05:21] <siretart> comadreja: dont paste your passwords in irc ;)
[05:21] <Mez> cool, I'll poke you when I'm back mako
[05:21] <Mez> shouldnt be more than a few mins
[05:21] <comadreja> it was /w(indow)s(wap) 7
[05:21] <Nafallo> thanx again all :-)
[05:21] <mako> Virtuall: my general feeling is that unless there is a body of work and contributions not documented on your page, i'd suggest postponing this for a meeting or two until you can get your team off the ground and such
[05:21] <Seveas> mako++
[05:22] <mako> Virtuall: i am sure you will be an important contributor to ubuntu.. but membership recognizes a history of substantial and sustained contributions
[05:22] <Virtuall> ...
[05:22] <ogra> yes, we need some visual contribution... even a small one will do...
[05:22] <mako> ogra: well, a small one might not
[05:23] <ogra> depends :)
[05:23] <robitaille> unless it's a very good small one
[05:23] <Virtuall> the hardest is to find what to contribute :(
[05:23] <jsgotangco> 1kb worth of contrib? :)
[05:23] <ogra> robitaille++
[05:23] <bddebian> Virtuall: Amen :-)
[05:23] <Virtuall> heh
[05:23] <Amaranth> Virtuall: Once you get your team going and get some translations or something I'm sure it won't be a problem getting you accepted.
[05:23] <smurfix> Virtuall: Progress on your support / loco / translation plans will do nicely
[05:23] <jsgotangco> indeed
[05:23] <mako> Virtuall: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
[05:23] <mako> start there
[05:23] <mako> that is a very long page with ideas to get started with
[05:23] <Virtuall> translation :) already started
[05:24] <mdke> ++ good page
[05:24] <Amaranth> If the next meeting is after july 30th you should have something big to talk about. :)
[05:24] <mako> mdke: i made that one ;)
[05:24] <mdke> :)
[05:24] <mako> Virtuall: start some of your projects.. your ideas sounds great
[05:25] <mako> Virtuall: then come back in a few weeks or months and tell us about them
[05:25] <mako> Virtuall: :)
[05:25] <mako> Virtuall: sound fair?
[05:25] <Virtuall> :
[05:25] <Virtuall> :)
[05:25] <Virtuall> k
[05:25] <mako> cool
[05:25] <mako> alright
[05:25] <Seveas> Next up: backports team
[05:25] <Amaranth> nope
[05:25] <mako> postponed
[05:25] <Seveas> ok
[05:25] <\sh> FreeNode?
[05:25] <Seveas> Next up: my call (Freenode Reg.)
[05:25] <bddebian> Hey :'-(
[05:25] <ogra> mako, wrt postponing the backports, do we cann the other membership guys
[05:25] <mako> freenode reg
[05:25] <ogra> call
[05:26] <Mez> am back
[05:26] <Amaranth> Mez: You're next.
[05:26] <Mez> I guessed :D
[05:26] <Seveas> I have documented it on the wiki, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreenodeRegistrationSpec
[05:26] <Amaranth> I've had some discussions with alindeman about group registration for another project.
[05:27] <mako> ok.. an official backports team.. Mez talk make.. i'll read up on the spec
[05:27] <Amaranth> But it looks like the wiki basically covers it.
[05:27] <Mez> ok, put simply, I've been told that we need to form an official team, Curerntly ou team consists of myself, john Dong, Slomo and Mike Basinger.
[05:28] <Amaranth> Whoever the group contact is is intially going to have a lot of work if we want to get cloaks and such setup, after that they're more or less just a communications channel.
[05:28] <Mez> The team should be the people that are allowed to poke elmo into actualyl starting the backports process
[05:28] <Amaranth> oh, are we coming back to backports?
[05:28] <\sh> Amaranth: first backports now, then freenode
[05:28] <Amaranth> ok
[05:29] <Mez> so far, both myself and John are allowed to (and I've poked elmo, but still to recieve a response) 
[05:29] <Kamion> Seveas: I'm not sure about the developer/staff distinction in the spec - not speaking for everyone at Canonical, but I think many of us would prefer not to emphasise that distinction
[05:29] <mako> Amaranth: please, one at a time
[05:29] <Mez> but this is just the final formalities of allowing others to poke elmo (as far as I'm aware)
[05:29] <Seveas> Mez, will backports repositories move to *.ubuntu.com ?
[05:29] <ogra> Mez, so jdong is responsive again ?
[05:29] <Kamion> Seveas: they'll be on archive.ubuntu.com
[05:29] <mako> Seveas: yes, eventually
[05:29] <Mez> Johns' unavailable at the moment due to classes, so he couldnt be here
[05:29] <tseng> im also worried about jdongs participation in ubuntu proper.
[05:29] <elmo> mez: I've been at debconf, I'll deal with it later this evening
[05:30] <tseng> we see much more of Mez
[05:30] <Mez> elmo: as I thought
[05:30] <ogra> i could shed some light on the technical side if someone is interested
[05:30] <mdke> i have a couple of questions on backports. 1. will hoary-extras be in the archive.ubuntu.com repository? also 2. is there any plans to integrate with bug reporting facilities, e.g. malone?
[05:30] <ogra> at least how mdz wants it to be...
[05:30] <\sh> I have also some objections with jdong...I don't see him around, would like to have more integration with -motu and also in -devel
[05:30] <mako> mdz, elmo, myself, and sabdfl had busy weeks at debconf
[05:30] <Amaranth> I thought jdong was working on ltsp for edubuntu.
[05:30] <tseng> also can MOTUs trigger backports
[05:30] <mako> mdke: lets not have an indepth conversation on specifics now
[05:30] <ogra> Amaranth, huh ??
[05:30] <jsgotangco> i don't see why not
[05:30] <smurfix> ogra: that information might make sense as a wiki page
[05:30] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[05:30] <seth_k> currently backports has some shady stuff like w32codecs, how will that be handled?
[05:31] <Kamion> mdke: what's in hoary-extras?
[05:31] <tseng> seth_k: ignore what is there now.
[05:31] <ogra> seth_k, it wont
[05:31] <Amaranth> seth_k: That's hoary-extras, that's going to stay seperate.
[05:31] <Mez> no shady stuff will be in backports official
[05:31] <seth_k> right, thanks
[05:31] <Amaranth> seth_k: If it continues at all.
[05:31] <mdke> mako, we have some legal issues which are a problem for the docteam right now. The only place we can think of getting guidance is here
[05:31] <mdke> Mez, that's all I need to know, thanks :)
[05:31] <ogra> the backports will only be triggered by the backports team, the will build automatically from the next versions packages
[05:31] <Seveas> Mez, what are your plans for hoary-extras?
[05:31] <Mez> so far, the only things we are allowed to backport are the things that are in breezy
[05:31] <mako> mdke: right, buts lets stick to an agneda and do it in order or we're screwed
[05:31] <Seveas> Mez, because I need freenx from it :)
[05:32] <ogra> if there are changes to packages, you need a maintainer to make them
[05:32] <mdke> mako, agreed, apologies
[05:32] <Amaranth> ah, that's what it was
[05:32] <mako> please people
[05:32] <Mez> Seveas, I personally have no plans for it, but I beleive Johns keeping on with the project
[05:32] <Amaranth> sorry
[05:32] <mako> we're talking aout creating an official ubuntu backports team
[05:32] <mako> no we all agreed we wanted to do this a few weeks ago
[05:32] <Amaranth> ok, does anyone not understand what the role of the team will be?
[05:32] <mdke> well if the archive is official, the team should be official too, so +1 from me
[05:32] <tseng> mako: so what is the question
[05:33] <kbrooks> Question: Why create an official ubuntu backports team?
[05:33] <Mez> for anyone who's interested in the technical side, talk to me after: or read http://www.sourceguru.net/stuff/10/chat-with-mdz-log
[05:33] <\sh> actually the team needs a SPOC
[05:33] <mako> so, it sounds like some poeple are basically saying that the backports team hasn't integrated completely into the rest of the project
[05:33] <Mez> \sh - SPOC?
[05:33] <jsgotangco> why can't backports be part of Universe then?
[05:33] <kbrooks> Isn't backports already official?
[05:33] <tseng> mako: hm
[05:33] <\sh> Single Point Of Contact (taking over Ogras Part)
[05:33] <ogra> Mez, single point of contact
[05:33] <Amaranth> jsgotangco: you sound like ogra :)
[05:33] <tseng> mako: john dong has not integrated. mez and slomo have. it sounds like there could be a legitimate time issue atm for john
[05:33] <Amaranth> jsgotangco: That's the end goal.
[05:33] <ogra> jsgotangco, because its a different project
[05:34] <Mez> ogra: I would assume that, as people have problems with john at the moment, then the SPOC would be me
[05:34] <\sh> and for my person, I would like to see someone who is catchable
[05:34] <ogra> jsgotangco, but since they need MOTU for fixing the packages, they will work tight with us i guess
[05:34] <mako> jsgotangco: we've had this conversation before.. inot possible right now
[05:34] <Amaranth> slomo or Mez, they are both on a lot more than jdong has been
[05:34] <mdke> the team should use the -devel list and malone IMO. a single point of contact sounds good
[05:34] <jsgotangco> ok....
[05:34] <Seveas> mez is catchable
[05:34] <ogra> Amaranth++
[05:34] <Mez> Amaranth, I'm the more clued in of both of us
[05:34] <Seveas> he is in #ubuntu-nun too often :)
[05:34] <mdke>  [16:18]  < tseng> Nafallo is more like one of two guys on Universe Security
[05:34] <mako> sounds other people seemed to raise concern with the quality or the nature of the software being distrbitued
[05:34] <mako> like, w32codecs, for example
[05:35] <Seveas> mdke, fix your laptop :)
[05:35] <Kamion> kbrooks: backports only became vaguely official a few weeks back, and this is part of the process.
[05:35] <Amaranth> mdke: don't touch the mouse! :P
[05:35] <\sh> and Mez is one of the good guys, slomo as well...
[05:35] <mdke> sorry again
[05:35] <Mez> mako: the point is we're only backporting stuff officially that is in breezy
[05:35] <Mez> mako: so if you have issues with quality, poke the devs and MOTU
[05:35] <mako> Mez: so you don't have w32codecs?
[05:35] <mdke> i'm reassured by that statement
[05:35] <Mez> mako: w32codecs = in haory-extras
[05:35] <ogra> mako, the other point is that we dont get pbackporte kernel or libc packages
[05:36] <Seveas> ...or backport libgcc
[05:36] <Mez> and even if it is in backports - then when things are built officially, it wont be able to
[05:36] <mako> Mez: i think that's splitting hairs
[05:36] <Seveas> which is there now
[05:36] <mdke> so hoary-extras continues?
[05:36] <\sh> hmm?? i'm confused...this is governance stuff, right?
[05:36] <ogra> \sh, yep
[05:36] <Mez> Seveas: hopefully the new build system and moving everything official will get rid of that
[05:36] <Mez> mdke: Thats' up to jdong, it wont continue officially
[05:36] <Amaranth> What exactly are we supposed to be discussing here? The structure of the team?
[05:36] <Mez> \sh it's meant to be
[05:37] <mako> Mez: i'm afraid of our group making "official" a repository and a group that is doing things that we all realize are legally dangerous
[05:37] <ogra> Amaranth, themembers ? the SPOC ?
[05:37] <mako> Amaranth: no, the creation of the team right now
[05:37] <\sh> Mez: yes..and I'm afraid that we're talking technical things now
[05:37] <mdke> Mez, ok some communication with him would be good then. Otherwise you'll end up "forking" the backports team :/
[05:37] <Mez> mako: it's not possibel for the official stuff to make anything dangerous, currently we dont have direct upload, and it's not planned AFAIK
[05:37] <bddebian> afk, back in 5
[05:38] <\sh> well...I think, if it's CCs issue to discuss the creation of the backports team, we should be 
[05:38] <mako> Mez: what not clear to me is what is official and what is not
[05:38] <Amaranth> jdong is leader, Mez is contact
[05:38] <mako> \sh: we are
[05:38] <Mez> mako: official = on archive.ubuntu.com
[05:38] <\sh> aware, that a SPOC or team lead which is not there, is a nono...mez and/or slomo are here and are integrating
[05:38] <Mez> everything else != official
[05:38] <mako> Mez: if that's your definition of official, then there is no need for an official team until you move there
[05:38] <Amaranth> \sh: jdong is up for member status
[05:38] <mako> Mez: if it's produced by the official team, it's official
[05:38] <Seveas> Amaranth, he is one already
[05:38] <Amaranth> \sh: he is just overloaded with school atm
[05:39] <tseng> we arent speaking about a leader afaict, concerns have been laid out
[05:39] <mako> Mez: unless they are clearly acting in another capacity
[05:39] <tseng> team +1
[05:39] <Amaranth> Seveas: not according to the agenda
[05:39] <Seveas> hmm
[05:39] <mako> we all agree that there should be a team
[05:39] <Mez> John=  a member
[05:39] <Amaranth> yes
[05:39] <jsgotangco> aye
[05:39] <slomo> afaik jdong planned to continue hoary-extras as before unconnected to the "normal" backports so there will be no implications imho
[05:39] <Amaranth> +1 team
[05:39] <\sh> +1 team
[05:39] <Seveas> Amaranth, that's my mistake, forgot to take him of that list
[05:39] <Seveas> +1 for official backports team
[05:39] <mako> please
[05:40] <tseng> ok then, im back to being confused what we are discussing
[05:40] <mako> we have already agreed to create an official backports repository, an official team, etc etc
[05:40] <Amaranth> What exactly are we supposed to be talking about then?
[05:40] <mako> i guess they are looking for formal team recognition right now
[05:40] <Seveas> mako, ok, so what is the point in this discussion then...?
[05:40] <mako> but, as far as i can tell, there has been no movement into actually making any of the work use the official infrastructure
[05:40] <Mez> the reason this was added was because of mdz's email
[05:40] <Mez> The formation of an official backports team should be discussed at the next
[05:40] <Mez> CC meeting, but in the interest of getting the project going (and testing
[05:40] <Mez> the infrastructure further), but in the meantime, please honor requests
[05:40] <Mez> which come from john.dong@gmail.com or martin@sourcefrog.net.
[05:41] <ogra_> grmpf
[05:41] <ogra_> Seveas, we need a spoc
[05:41] <jsgotangco> martin pool?
[05:41] <ogra_> jsgotangco, Mez
[05:41] <Mez> mako: we're just waiting on elmo to start building stuff ... before we become official
[05:41] <mako> Kamion: most of the votes don't matter, i just ignore them
[05:41] <jsgotangco> ahh
[05:41] <ogra_> Mez, you have to trigger elmo for that as i understood it
[05:41] <Kamion> mako: I know, but they make scrollback difficult to follow; I'm doing other things at the same time as this meeting
[05:41] <Mez> the point of this is to form a team, and accept people on to that team to give them permission to start the process by contacting elmo
[05:42] <mako> so i haven't thought about this too much but here is my position:
[05:42] <mako> we've already committed to create a team so i don't think we need another vote now
[05:42] <Mez> mako: this is meant to be approving the initial members of the team
[05:42] <mako> the official internal team exists when the work is being done internally
[05:42] <ogra_> mako, wh leads the team ? 
[05:43] <Amaranth> Mez
[05:43] <ogra_> mako, to whom do i talk about backports ?
[05:43] <Mez> and defining the SPOC
[05:43] <ogra_> Amaranth, did we make that official now ?
[05:43] <Amaranth> I think that's what we're supposed to be doing right now...
[05:43] <Mez> that's what needs to be decided.
[05:43] <ogra_> yep
[05:44] <Mez> So, for now, we need to agree that the initial team will be myself, slomo, john dong and mike basinger (the people who currently work on backports) and also decide that someone be the SPOC
[05:44] <mako> i'm worried about putting you guys on the website when the "official work" and the "unofficial work" is confused
[05:44] <mako> Mez: teams can decide their own make-up
[05:44] <Mez> mako: I was referred her by mdz to decide all of this
[05:44] <Mez> elmo should have the email regarding it
[05:45] <mako> Mez: like i said.. you guys have a team for weeks
[05:45] <mdke> this obsession with launchpad teams is odd: teams are made up by the people doing the work, full stop
[05:45] <Amaranth> teams decide their own makeup and leader, i'm not sure what's going on here
[05:45] <Seveas> So if there is nothing to decide/do here, can we move on..?
[05:45] <jsgotangco> i agree
[05:45] <mako> Seveas: probably.. lets see
[05:45] <slomo> mako: what do you mean by confusing official and unofficial work?
[05:46] <ogra_> slomo, if hoary-extras stays we have two teams
[05:46] <Mez> mako I'm confused by this as much as anyone else :P
[05:46] <mako> ok
[05:46] <mako> ok, please move forward integrating your work into the archive
[05:46] <mako> work with mdz
[05:46] <sivang> hi all
[05:47] <mako> if there is a specific issue that mdz had, it was never communicated to me
[05:47] <Amaranth> It's going to anger users but I think the point is if you're going to be an official team you really shouldn't be working on hoary-extras.
[05:47] <mako> and
[05:47] <Mez> mako, one sec, lemme point you to the reason this came out
[05:47] <Kamion> slomo: official => hoary-backports, unofficial => hoary-extras; the latter has legal problems; many of the same people are doing both and they often get promoted together, so we need to be very clear that they are distinct.
[05:47] <mako> Kamion: yes.. 
[05:47] <mako> and that's *not* the case right now
[05:47] <Mez> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ubuntu-bp-devel/browse_thread/thread/4ca5491c4702a037/fdd67b7f2a2baf93#fdd67b7f2a2baf93
[05:47] <mdke> it will become clearer once the official backports repo is up
[05:47] <Amaranth> nope, people think they get w32codecs from 'backports'
[05:48] <Mez> click on the "expand quoted text"
[05:48] <mako> if you want us to say "we aggree that backports are official" i'm going to hold off on this until the official repository is created and this distinction is clear to users
[05:48] <mako> if you want my advice, you're smart to stay away from tat stuff yourself
[05:48] <Mez> mako: afaik this is just to confirm who'#s allowed to ask elmo to start somethign being backported
[05:48] <Mez> (which IMO should go through Tech Board)
[05:49] <Amaranth> Yeah, you don't need Real, Microsoft, Apple, and etc all coming after you.
[05:49] <ogra_> but was pointed to here by mdz
[05:49] <slomo> mako: i for one haven't touched the critical stuff myself ;) my only upload to extras was a clean package by myself which currently waits for inclusion in universe
[05:49] <Mez> yeah, I was pointed here by mdz
[05:49] <mako> alright.. 
[05:49] <Amaranth> And we don't want them coming after you being associated with 'Ubuntu Backports'. :)
[05:50] <mako> have john dong talk to mdz to figure out what the problem is
[05:50] <mako> Mez: in the future, please try to have a better idea of exactly what the proposal is
[05:50] <mako> this has been rather frusterating
[05:50] <Seveas> moving on..?
[05:50] <Mez> mako: apologies, I was just working on what was said in the email
[05:50] <ogra_> mako, even if jdong is the only baclkporter that doesnt work with official people ?
[05:50] <Amaranth> Seveas: please
[05:50] <mako> ogra_: well. lets change that and at least get him to delegate
[05:51] <Amaranth> he is the founder of the project
[05:51] <ogra_> mako, i'd love to, but he doesnt show up on any official channel
[05:51] <Amaranth> anything else would be 'forking' the project
[05:51] <Amaranth> ogra_: he is busy with school
[05:51] <mako> well, there are a bunch of folks here.. they can get the message to him
[05:51] <mdke> ogra_, you can just get the dialogue going on the forums and bring him in here
[05:52] <ogra_> Amaranth, yes, but the tech structure is that he needs to work very tight with the maintainers
[05:52] <jsgotangco> even an email would get across :(
[05:52] <ogra_> i dont see that happen
[05:52] <jsgotangco> that is sad
[05:52] <mako> if dong is the wr3ong contact, have him delegate to someone else
[05:52] <\sh> mdke: so whats the problem? if he's reading the forums..5 mins on irc would be enough..I think we have all a life and are bound to some other things..
[05:52] <mako> this isn't too hard here
[05:52] <Mez> I think this should be througn TB if anything,
[05:52] <mako> PLEASE
[05:52] <mako> lets move on
[05:53] <Seveas> Next up: my call (Freenode Registration). I have documented it on the wiki, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreenodeRegistrationSpec and am volunteering to do the work it involves. The matter to decide here is whether we want this or not. If it's decided to do this, we need to know cloak titles too.
[05:53] <mako> we've spent *way* too much time on this already
[05:53] <mdke> \sh, i agree, i think this problem can get solved by communication. Anyway, next item
[05:53] <Seveas> And if we can finish quickly, i'd be happy, because I kinda have to go soon :)
[05:53] <jsgotangco> i like this
[05:54] <jsgotangco> cloaking would be a good bonus too
[05:54] <Amaranth> Seveas: This is a good idea. If nothing else it's another perk for joining.
[05:54] <Seveas> Kamion already expresses his opinion that staff/developers distinction might be bad, so you can skip that part of the spec
[05:54] <mako> ok
[05:54] <siretart> bye!
[05:55] <mako> i agree with kamion
[05:55] <mako> my feeling is that we should have ubuntite and member
[05:55] <mako> and that's it
[05:55] <Seveas> mako, ack
[05:55] <sivang> mako: I'm not listed as an ubuntu member in launchpad, do I Have to go another approval before ? 
[05:55] <Nafallo> bye siretart 
[05:55] <\sh> cu siretart 
[05:55] <slomo> by siretart
[05:55] <mako> sivang: no
[05:55] <Seveas> sivang, no just poke mako after the meeting 
[05:55] <sivang> Seveas: k, cool :-)
[05:55] <Seveas> mako, no developer?
[05:55] <mdke> sivang, most of us are not approved in that group, don't worry
[05:55] <bddebian> Bye siretart
[05:56] <mako> Seveas: no
[05:56] <Amaranth> all developers are members anyway
[05:56] <mdke> i like ubuntite and member too, too many labels are bad
[05:56] <sistpoty> cya siretart 
[05:56] <mako> i don't want to create a hierarchy where technical contributions are seen as more valid
[05:56] <Seveas> ok
[05:56] <mako> or more valuable
[05:56] <Seveas> good point
[05:56] <\sh> i think we should accomplish the view of ubuntu just like it is..there is no difference between members/devs/staff in a public point of view
[05:56] <mdke> mako, ++ :)
[05:56] <jsgotangco> nice
[05:56] <mako> a good translator is just an important a contributor as an uploader
[05:56] <mdke> that is the Ubuntu spirit
[05:56] <kinjoo> mako: feel free to skip my agenda item (marketing efforts). I have to go soon. Next meeting will be fine!
[05:56] <mako> so ubuntite and member
[05:56] <kinjoo> SO all you guys can go home, too.
[05:57] <Amaranth> Seveas: You realize you're going to have a fair bit of work at first, right?
[05:57] <mako> kinjoo: cool.. thanks for hanging out this long
[05:57] <Seveas> ok, so does the CC want this, and if so, is it ok if I do the work in the beginning?
[05:57] <comadreja> what about the other items in the agenda ?
[05:57] <Seveas> Amaranth, yes
[05:57] <jsgotangco> too bad i wanted the marketing stuff...
[05:57] <mako> please go ahead Seveas 
[05:57] <mako> Kamion, elmo ?
[05:57] <Amaranth> Seveas: Be aware that you'll probably be waiting 4+ months on this.
[05:57] <ogra_> Seveas, just dont miss any channels ;)
[05:57] <elmo> I'm not thrilled by use of anything.ubuntu masks
[05:58] <elmo> as the behaviour of anyone using those masks _in any channel_ then reflects on us
[05:58] <elmo> but *shrug*
[05:58] <ogra_> elmo, i think sabdfl agreed to lilo about it last TB ...
[05:58] <kbrooks> elmo: I agree.
[05:58] <Mez> actually, it was last CC
[05:58] <\sh> elmo++
[05:58] <sivang> elmo: true
[05:58] <ogra_> err, yes, CC
[05:58] <mdke> interesting point
[05:58] <Seveas> elmo, I tend to agree, but members have to sign the CoC
[05:58] <Seveas> and members are the Good Guys (imo) :)
[05:58] <elmo> Seveas: that relates to Ubuntu, not #random
[05:58] <Mez> good point Seveas, as do ubuntites
[05:58] <sivang> Seveas: that doesn't mean they cannot go wild once they signed it
[05:59] <kbrooks> Seveas: what if members don't follow the COC?
[05:59] <\sh> Seveas: it has something to do with: putting someone with *ubuntu mask on a horse...
[05:59] <mdke> it happens...
[05:59] <Seveas> sivang, ack, but membership and cloaks can be revoked
[05:59] <sivang> Seveas: sure
[05:59] <kbrooks> sivang: sure, but....
[05:59] <Seveas> it happens with and without cloaks, I don't see too much difference
[05:59] <Amaranth> how would you know?
[05:59] <kbrooks> having to do that reflects badly on us
[05:59] <mako> i don't particularly see the value
[05:59] <Kamion> Seveas: I think that'd in practice be fairly difficult to do given the rather ephemeral nature of IRC arguments
[05:59] <ogra_> guys, i think we already discussed pro/contra cloaking....
[06:00] <sivang> mako++
[06:00] <smurfix> it's a potential trade-off but I still think we should do it.
[06:00] <Kamion> Seveas: and people wouldn't bother to report it to us, they'd just think "oh, those Ubuntu guys are arseholes"
[06:00] <Amaranth> If someone is in ##php with a user.ubuntu hostmask and is being a prat how are you going to find out?
[06:00] <sivang> Kamion: exactly
[06:00] <\sh> gentlemen...i have to leave...sorry..
[06:00] <mako> i have no intention to get a cloak.. but i understand others want it
[06:00] <\sh> ogra has my voice and vote
[06:00] <sivang> later \sh 
[06:00] <\sh> bbl
[06:00] <ogra_> mako, freenode wants it
[06:00] <Amaranth> bye \sh 
[06:00] <bddebian> Bye \sh
[06:00] <kbrooks> Amaranth: yeah
[06:00] <Amaranth> freenode wants a group contact
[06:00] <jsgotangco> i dont have much useof it on my side either but if its offered, let's grab it
[06:00] <Amaranth> there is a difference
[06:00] <ogra_> mako, as discussed to an extet last meeting
[06:01] <ogra_> extent
[06:01] <Seveas> If *.ubuntu causes problems this will get reported to freenode staff usually and they have the group contact to talk to
[06:01] <mdke> will it become a status symbol?
[06:02] <Seveas> And quite frankly I think you are looking at it too optimistic
[06:02] <mako> cool
[06:02] <Seveas> ehm
[06:02] <jsgotangco> mdke: it might
[06:02] <smurfix> ogra_: what freenode wants should be of somewhat secondary importance
[06:02] <Seveas> pessimistic I mean
[06:02] <mako> mdke: it becomes an additional perk of membership
[06:02] <Nafallo> mdke: not more than @ubuntu.com 
[06:02] <Nafallo> IMO
[06:02] <ogra_> smurfix, but whatwe agreed about doesnt need to get discussed again
[06:02] <Seveas> Nafallo, agreed
[06:02] <smurfix> ogra_: agreed
[06:02] <mdke> Nafallo, agreed, they might both become status symbols
[06:02] <Kamion> mako: I don't think I'd want anyone as a member who was joining just for the cloak
[06:02] <Mez> Nafallo, but @ubuntu.com isnt in place yet :P
[06:02] <Nafallo> Mez: it will be... some day :-)
[06:03] <ogra_> Nafallo, that depends on launchpad...
[06:03] <mdke> Kamion, i think that might be a danger
[06:03] <Mez> I think that having the cloak (and email) is a good way of promoting ubuntu :d
[06:03] <Seveas> Kamion, /me neither and that doesn't happen too: there have to be contributions before applying
[06:03] <sivang> Kamion: but members have to proove themselves before being approved as ones
[06:03] <Nafallo> ogra_: yea, I know :-)
[06:03] <mako> Kamion: if they were making major contributions in order to get and maintain it, i don't think it bothers me too much :)
[06:03] <Kamion> they just have to get enough people to cheerlead for them </cynical>
[06:03] <Seveas> lol :)
[06:03] <bddebian> Kamion: :-)
[06:03] <Kamion> sorry, bitter ;-)
[06:03] <mdke> hehe
[06:03] <sistpoty> hrhr
[06:04] <ogra_> Kamion, should we rework this process ?
[06:04] <Mez> Kamion: we'd cheerlead for you - but there's nothing to cheerlead you for :d (until they decide to change who's on CC)
[06:04] <sivang> Kamion: I didn't get no one cheerleading for me :-)
[06:04] <mako> ogra_: quite possible.. althougght later
[06:04] <ogra_> yep
[06:04] <Kamion> Mez: please don't. :-)
[06:04] <sivang> thanks bddebian :-)
[06:04] <mako> Kamion, elmo: y/n/notnow
[06:04] <Mez> mako +1
[06:04] <ogra_> ogra too
[06:04] <Seveas> mako, so not ubuntites even
[06:04] <sivang> mako++
[06:04] <Nafallo> mako++
[06:05] <mdke> ok
[06:05] <mako> Seveas: not at first.. 
[06:05] <jsgotangco> errmm point of order?
[06:05] <Mez> I dont think ubuntites should have, cause theyn they'll be using it as a status symbol :d
[06:05] <Mez> but members have to prove themselves first
[06:05] <Amaranth> I know of a couple people who are great help in #ubuntu but not members but that can be fixed from this end.
[06:05] <mako> please people
[06:05] <Seveas> Kamion, elmo, approval/disapproval?
[06:05] <kolcvk> i've started the translation of gstreamer but it says that i'm not an official translator ..
[06:05] <mako> we are 2 hours into this.
[06:05] <Amaranth> I was just saying I don't think ubuntites is a good idea
[06:05] <elmo> Seveas: dude, with all due respect, AWTY-ing is not overly useful
[06:06] <mdke> kolcvk, this is not the right channel
[06:06] <Seveas> elmo, hm?
[06:06] <Amaranth> ok, is this decided?
[06:06] <jsgotangco> (yeah i have work in 5 hours)
[06:06] <elmo> Seveas: mako already asked us
[06:06] <elmo> Seveas: you asking 2 minutes later isn't helpful
[06:06] <ogra_> kolcvk, #launchpad
[06:06] <Seveas> hmm, sorry, missed that :(
[06:06] <Kamion> Seveas: the sheer painful duration of CC meetings means we have to be doing other things at the same time
[06:07] <elmo> IMO, the registration part is fine and we should do it - I'm still not convinced by the cloaking stuff - I don't see any real advantages, and real potential problems - but I'm willing to be overrules on that
[06:07] <comadreja> there should be more and shorter meetings
[06:07] <Kamion> mako: I'm reasonably OK with it for just members (I have concerns, but I guess we can revisit them if they become real problems); I agree that we shouldn't be just handing out cloaks to anyone who self-identifies as an Ubuntite
[06:07] <Kamion> mako: registration seems obviously reasonable
[06:08] <mako> Kamion: agreed
[06:08] <jsgotangco> +1 on registration, details on that will come later
[06:08] <Mez> elmo: but the same potential problems would be with ahving @ubuntu.com email addresses - and that's already agreed upon (once the structure is in place)
[06:08] <Seveas> ok, I'll start up the process then, thank you for your patience
[06:08] <mako> Seveas: go ahead with registration and a luke-warm support for cloaks for members
[06:08] <mdke> thanks for your work Seveas 
[06:08] <mako> ok.. 
[06:08] <Kamion> I think people are more likely to be arseholes on IRC than in e-mail in practice ...
[06:08] <Kamion> but we'll see how it goes
[06:08] <Amaranth> It doesn't matter if we don't decide on cloaks right now, getting the group registration done will take a _long_ time.
[06:09] <mako> Seveas: yes.. thanks for your help
[06:09] <mako> so.. 
[06:09] <elmo> mez: people are far less likely to abuse email IME, and when they do, it's far less of an ephemeral thing to deal with
[06:09] <mako> kinjoo deferred
[06:09] <jsgotangco> poor kinjoo
[06:09] <tritium> Seveas, let me know if I can help with any of that.
[06:09] <jsgotangco> let's put him on top of agenda next cc meeting
[06:09] <ogra_> mako, member candidates that needed to show up again ?
[06:09] <mako> comadreja
[06:09] <mako> comadreja:
[06:09] <comadreja> me
[06:09] <ogra_> yeah
[06:10] <comadreja> the text ?
[06:10] <ogra_> comadreja, tell us about you 
[06:10] <mako> Jorge Daza
[06:10] <comadreja> it's hard to explain in three lines...
[06:10] <sivang> how often CC meetings are held these days?
[06:10] <comadreja> Solving bugs, packaging, helping somehow. Hard  to say without the wiki. I'm planning to do more
[06:10] <comadreja> developing, I'm very interested on that as I'm a developer myselft. I'm willing (I enjoy) to keep on using my
[06:10] <comadreja> spare time on that. I see Ubuntu, as the best distribution at the moment, and I'd like to make it even better.
[06:11] <mdke> sivang, every 2 weeks
[06:11] <comadreja> thanks for giving me a minute, btw
[06:11] <ogra_> comadreja is around in -motu regulary and recently brought us the new kismet package :)
[06:12] <ogra_> he also solved a bunch of bugs and packaged/fixed packages already
[06:12] <ogra_> so this is a +1 here from my side
[06:12] <comadreja> I'm registered also in launchpad
[06:12] <comadreja> I signed the CoC
[06:13] <comadreja> I'm a member of the ubuntu gnome team...
[06:13] <mako> alrighyt
[06:13] <ogra_> MOTUness will depend on him convincing his wife to ubuntu :)
[06:13] <comadreja> don't know, been quite busy with ubuntu lately
[06:13] <ogra_> but membership is fine with me :)
[06:13] <Nafallo> hehe
[06:13] <comadreja> Can't be she uses yahoo messenger's voice thingy
[06:14] <comadreja> Wine refuses to run it
[06:14] <mako> alright.. these contributions seems quite good
[06:14] <ogra_> comadreja, also the new wine pckages we have now ?
[06:14] <mako> i'm happy approving comadreja for membership
[06:14] <comadreja> haven't tested the new ones
[06:15] <mako> elmo, Kamion: ?
[06:15] <comadreja> no so much cheerleading this time :)
[06:15] <comadreja> people must be tired :D after all this time
[06:16] <elmo> ack
[06:16] <seth_k> I've noticed comadreja in -motu a lot; he is always very helpful and knowledgable
[06:16] <ogra_> comadreja, nope, they are just to impressed by your wikipage to speak ;)
[06:16] <mdke> nice work comadreja, welcome
[06:16] <ogra_> welcom comadreja then :)
[06:16] <comadreja> they haven't voted yet, have they ?
[06:17] <mdke> yes
[06:17] <ogra_> comadreja, they have aked
[06:17] <ogra_> acked
[06:17] <comadreja> oh, cool
[06:17] <comadreja> thanks !
[06:17] <bddebian> comadreja is who?
[06:17] <comadreja> JorgeDaza
[06:17] <bddebian> Ah, thx
[06:17] <ogra_> next !
[06:17] <ogra_> mako ?
[06:18] <comadreja> really thanks ! :)
[06:18] <Amaranth> so...is the next thing figuring out when the next meeting is?
[06:18] <slomo> comadreja: hehe, i've overseen elmo's vote for me at first, too ;) btw... welcome :)
[06:18] <smurfix> slomo: overlooked ;-)
[06:18] <mako> alright
[06:18] <ogra_> mako, bddebian ?
[06:19] <bddebian> ogra_: Aye?
[06:19] <mako> bddebian ?
[06:19] <slomo> smurfix: thanks ;) *currently improving my english skills*
[06:19] <mako> one more person
[06:19] <ogra_> bddebian, do your introduction....
[06:19] <bddebian> Ah.  BarrydeFreese.  And as with last time, I don't necessarily expect induction but here goes:
[06:20] <bddebian> What I've Done:  Joined NuN and began trying to help in #ubuntu.  Started working on UniverseUnmetDeps.  Updated python-pyrtf for tritium (on REVU). Correct ogra's English.  Still amuse ogra? :-)
[06:20] <bddebian> What I plan to do:  Like to eventually become MOTU.  Still want to produce an Ubuntu based GNU/Hurd.  Will most likely try to start a USPALoCo team.  Also want to get a PPC back up and going. Generally help out wherever I can.
[06:20] <bddebian> Idea and future:  If I make it to MOTU, I would like to get a better handle on packages brought into Universe and such.  For example many of the zope-* packages haven't had upstream updates in over 4 years and have very few downloads.  Is it worth spending the effort to fix or to even have it in the repos?
[06:20] <bddebian> Oh yeah, and maybe make a better wiki for myself. ;-)
[06:20] <ogra_> +1 from me for teaching me grammar.... (and a bit for the packages he touched already)
[06:20] <ogra_> ;)
[06:21] <sivang> bddebian: I can help with that, I already have one happy customer - tseng :-)
[06:21] <bddebian> sivang: Thx
[06:21] <Mez> +1 for IRC based support
[06:21] <sivang> bddebian +1 for me knowing him back then form debian, and being very helpful with all sorts of debian questions.
[06:22] <Kamion> bddebian: at some point I need to hook up with you/somebody and do Hurd installer hacking
[06:22] <tritium> bddebian, has done a great job in updating packages for me in my absence
[06:22] <Kamion> (in today's "insane" category)
[06:22] <ogra_> Kamion, ubuntu hurd ? :)
[06:22] <bddebian> Kamion: I'm game.  I wanna set up an FTP box and buildd but I am considering moving jobs so I have been holding off :-(
[06:22] <mako> Kamion: is that a position?
[06:23] <Amaranth> ogra_: Ubuntu GNU
[06:23] <Kamion> mako: hmm?
[06:23] <mako> Kamion: is that an approval?
[06:23] <ogra_> Kamion, we're waiting for a ack or nack :)
[06:23] <Kamion> ogra_: in all seriousness it's not remotely ready yet; I found that while hacking on installer stuff for it
[06:23] <Kamion> oh, yeah, ack bddebian
[06:24] <ogra_> Kamion, next year, for sure *g*
[06:24] <mako> elmo: bddebian ?
[06:24] <bddebian> Oh man and I made a crack about Elmo's World.. :)
[06:25] <sivang> lol
[06:25] <elmo> ack
[06:25] <ogra_> yay bddebian 
[06:25] <Amaranth> yay
[06:26] <mdke> nice work bddebian 
[06:26] <Amaranth> bddebian: You're my official 'orga translator'.
[06:26] <Mez> congrats
[06:26] <bddebian> Wow, thanks folks.
[06:26] <bddebian> Amaranth: :-)
[06:26] <ogra_> finally someone who cares about my grammar all the time
[06:26] <Amaranth> er, ogra_ 
[06:26] <sivang> ogra_: not that bad as I see it :-)
[06:26] <bddebian> No, definetly not bad
[06:26] <ogra_> sivang, but sometimes i need correction :)
[06:26] <mako> alright
[06:26] <mako> next meeting is two weeks from today
[06:27] <mako> august 2nd
[06:27] <ogra_> thanks mako 
[06:27] <comadreja> thanks all
[06:27] <mako> at say, UTC20?
[06:27] <Kamion> works for me
[06:27] <Nafallo> hehe. I hope I can get my girlfriend to be a member by then ;-)
[06:27] <sivang> mako: could be good
[06:27] <ogra_> sounds good
[06:27] <mako> ok.. sounds good
[06:27] <comadreja> much better
[06:27] <Amaranth> works here
[06:27] <mako> see you all later
[06:27] <mdke> thanks mako
[06:27] <Nafallo> works for us :-)
[06:27] <ogra_> have a nice time in nl mako 
[06:27] <bddebian> Thanks again folks
[06:27] <Amaranth> mako: Can I PM you about my key?
[06:28] <Nafallo> thanx all :-)
[06:28] <nalioth> Amaranth: why not in channel? i have a key question, also
[06:28] <Amaranth> ok
[06:28] <Amaranth> well, basically, i still don't have it signed
[06:28] <nalioth> Amaranth: and your key question may answer my key question
[06:29] <slomo> thanks all :) btw, mako? is my signed CoC in launchpad ok for membership?
[06:29] <sivang> mako: I just also would like to ask about my membership status in launchapd...that's all :-)
[06:29] <Amaranth> mako: You said there was an alternative method of getting my CoC signed?
[06:30] <nalioth> sivang: mako stated earlier that he is behind on housekeeping at launchpad
[06:30] <sivang> nalioth: ah ok
[06:30] <nalioth> Amaranth: find a notary, with a copy of your passport/drivers license and key fingerprint
[06:31] <nalioth> Amaranth: you can send the notarized copy to me or make or whomever
[06:31] <Amaranth> ok
[06:31] <Amaranth> I guess I'm not going to be a MOTU though. :/
[06:31] <nalioth> Amaranth: it won't be "careful checking" but it will be signed
[06:32] <Amaranth> oh, you mean my gpg key
[06:32] <Amaranth> S!2 signed or whatever?
[06:32] <nalioth> Amaranth: whatever the level is (i dont know all!that fanciness
[06:33] <seth_k> yes, S!2
[06:33] <Amaranth> ok
[06:33] <seth_k> nalioth, S! is "no answer" S!1 is no checking, S!2 is some checking, S!3 is careful checking
[06:33] <nalioth> i take it S!1 is "careful checking"?
[06:33] <Amaranth> yep
[06:33] <Amaranth> and i'll be able to be in MOTU and all that with this?
[06:33] <seth_k> not with nalioth's !2 methinks
[06:34] <ogra_> Amaranth, http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?STAT=A2D06936&STATS=statistics
[06:34] <seth_k> I think you need 3 marginals or 1 careful
[06:34] <ogra_> Amaranth, if you can get *any* path to me your key is fine
[06:34] <nalioth> Amaranth: so mail copies to bunches of people
[06:34] <Amaranth> ogra_: I cannot get any path to anyone that's not S!2.
[06:34] <Amaranth> nalioth: ok
[06:35] <ogra_> nalioth, mailing doesnt work
[06:35] <ogra_> nalioth, you need to meet in person....
[06:35] <Amaranth> If I can't be MOTU with this I won't even bother.
[06:35] <nalioth> ogra_: so i am confused, then. where does the notary and copies come in?
[06:35] <\sh> re
[06:35] <ogra_> nalioth, ah, sanilmail is something else
[06:35] <Amaranth> I thought the whole point was that the notary verifies your identity and then you fax/mail that to someone.
[06:35] <nalioth> ogra_: yes, that is what we are discussing
[06:36] <ogra_> nalioth, i thought you seak about email
[06:36] <ogra_> sorry
[06:36] <nalioth> Amaranth: you can mail to me, if you wish
[06:36] <ogra_> Amaranth, right... i was mislead
[06:36] <Amaranth> ok, so how many of these to i need?
[06:36] <ogra_> Amaranth, 1
[06:36] <Amaranth> nalioth: you can get me to ogra_?
[06:36] <ogra_> nalioth, whats your id ?
[06:37] <nalioth> hang on
[06:37] <nalioth> F0EE0D7C
[06:37] <ogra_> nalioth, is it uploaded already ?
[06:38] <ogra_> (it needs to be on a keyserver to mak a trustpath)
[06:38] <nalioth> ogra_: yes to the us servers
[06:38] <ogra_> nalioth, when ? they all get mirrored regulary
[06:38] <nalioth> <1 week ago
[06:39] <ogra_> nalioth, hmm
[06:39] <ogra_> http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?FROM=A2D06936&TO=F0EE0D7C&PATHS=trust+paths
[06:39] <ogra_> doesnt look like it already is around... weird
[06:40] <nalioth> i upped to the US servers and some1 in -nun found it there
[06:40] <seth_k> i found it in the US server
[06:41] <ogra_> nalioth, seems the us server doesnt get mirrored into the stron set or something... hmm
[06:41] <nalioth> well let me up it to another one, any suggestions?
[06:42] <ogra_> http://pki.surfnet.nl/submit.html
[06:42] <ogra_> thats what the error page shows on the trustpath server ...
[06:42] <ogra_> so try it there
[06:42] <ogra_> many people in ubuntu use this tool... so you should be fine with this server
[06:43] <seth_k> mako sure runs away quickly... /me hopes he replies to my e-mail
[06:43] <nalioth> seth_k: don't hold your breath
[06:43] <ogra_> seth_k, mako is traveling a lot currently...
[06:43] <ogra_> seth_k, which always distracts a bit from mail reading ;)
[06:44] <seth_k> yep, indeed
[06:44] <ogra_> and given that mako is likely to recieve more then the 400 mails/day i get....
[06:44] <Amaranth> he said he had < 1000 to read on the lists alone
[06:44] <Amaranth> err, > 1000
[06:45] <kbrooks> meeting done?
[06:45] <ogra_> kbrooks, yes
[06:45] <nalioth> ok i'm having a case of the dumbass, how do i create an armored key?
[06:45] <seth_k> -a
[06:45] <Amaranth> --armor?
[06:46] <seth_k> so like gpg --export-keys -a you@domain.com
[06:46] <seth_k> --armor works too
[06:46] <kbrooks> meeting done? anyone know?
[06:46] <seth_k> and to a file, do gpg --export-keys -a you > blah.asc
[06:47] <comadreja> what is the strength a key has to have ?
[06:47] <nalioth> --export-keys invalid option
[06:47] <ogra_> comadreja, must be signed by one in the strong set
[06:47] <seth_k> sorry, just export
[06:47] <comadreja> ogra_ I meant in bits
[06:47] <seth_k> comadreja, use a 1024/2048 key methinks. Everybody else does
[06:47] <comadreja> ogra_ ok
[06:47] <comadreja> ogra_ btw, the strongh set, anyone is biglumber is in the strong set ?
[06:48] <comadreja> ogra_ there are some people from madrid
[06:48] <ogra_> nope, anyone who is signed and uploaded on a keyserver... if you can find a trustpath (of any lenght) to a ubuntu maintainer, you should be fine
[06:49] <nalioth> ok uploaded to the .nl site you sent
[06:49] <ogra_> hmm, might take some time until its registered... i still get an error
[06:49] <Amaranth> everyone in biglumber is supposed to be in the strong set
[06:49] <Amaranth> and that trustpath site hasn't updated since the 10th
[06:49] <Mez> Amaranth, not neccesarily, they juts want to sign :d
[06:50] <Mez> but MOST people are in the strong set
[06:50] <Amaranth> o_O
[06:50] <comadreja> my key is already registered in a keyserver...
[06:50] <ogra_> comadreja, id ?
[06:51] <nalioth> seth_k: what site did you find my key on? (and it's trail of ink?)
[06:51] <comadreja> 5D7ACDEF
[06:52] <seth_k> nalioth, wwwkeys.us.pgp.net methinks
[06:52] <ogra_> comadreja, hmm, unsigned..
[06:53] <comadreja> ogra_ remotely signing is not possible right ?
[06:53] <ogra_> comadreja, nope
[06:53] <comadreja> ogra_ even if I send passport or something alike ?
[06:53] <comadreja> copies, of course
[06:53] <comadreja> :)
[06:53] <Amaranth> S!2 signing is possible with a notorized letter, but not preferred
[06:53] <nalioth> comadreja: yes, it is, if you get a notary and have them notarize a copy of your passport and fingerprint
[06:53] <ogra_> comadreja, that works... we have a notary process for that
[06:53] <Amaranth> that's only if you have no other way
[06:53] <comadreja> I'll find another way
[06:53] <ogra_> nalioth, i found your key, it isnt singed yet
[06:53] <nalioth> but as mentioned, it's not as 'strong' as doing lunch
[06:53] <ogra_> http://pgp.surfnet.nl:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0xF0EE0D7C
[06:54] <ogra_> nalioth, so there cant be a trustpath yet...
[06:54] <Amaranth> nalioth: You're not signed? :/
[06:54] <ogra_> oh, it s signed... but by someone who isnt signed either
[06:54] <nalioth> Amaranth: i am signed, just can't seem to get the key propagated
[06:55] <nalioth> ogra_: not so, the guy has may sigs on his key (most of em debian devs)
[06:55] <ogra_> nalioth, i see... i can get a path to him but not to you...
[06:55] <ogra_> http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?FROM=A2D06936&TO=560553E7&PATHS=trust+paths
[06:56] <nalioth> perhaps he hasnt signed yet, or his key i signed is on the US server?
[06:56] <ogra_> ^^^^ but thats how it should look like if a key is in the strong set
[06:56] <ogra_> nalioth, he has signed, his key is appearing at your ring...
[06:57] <Amaranth> bustage
[06:57] <ogra_> ok, anyways, i need a typing break
[06:57] <Amaranth> so nalioth will eventually be able to get me to you
[06:57] <nalioth> mez found my key and the guy who signed could be traced back to Mez 
[06:58] <ogra_> Mez, might be a delay in propagating it...
[06:58] <ogra_> err nalioth ^^^
[06:59] <smurfix> ogra_: Lately I've seen signature propagation times that were nearly instantaneous
[06:59] <nalioth> so which server should i upload to in the future? i plan on traveling around and getting sigs from various users
[06:59] <smurfix> maybe re-upload both keys to a different server?
[06:59] <ogra_> smurfix, ah, that might it be then
[06:59] <smurfix> nalioth: I usually use subkeys.pgp.net
[06:59] <nalioth> did the .nl server get it?
[06:59] <nalioth> smurfix: ok. add that to my gpgrc or something?
[07:00] <ogra_> smurfix, my key is propagated anywhere, nalioth just uploaded additionally to the .nl server
[07:00] <smurfix> .gnupg/gpg.conf:keyserver subkeys.pgp.net
[07:00] <nalioth> ty
[07:00] <ogra_> nalioth, i guess its just delay... dont worry, the sign you have is very strong
[07:01] <nalioth> Amaranth: guess you can do the post thing then, if ya want
[07:01] <elmo> (btw you can use keyserver.ubuntu.com these days)
[07:02] <Amaranth> nalioth: got a fax machine? :)
[07:02] <nalioth> Amaranth: nope, but i can access one
[07:03] <Amaranth> i could probably get it faxed this weekend
[07:10] <nalioth> well i'll just upload to the 2 keyservers recently mentioned in here
[07:10] <nalioth> and we'll see
[07:10] <nalioth> y'all can find me in #ubuntu, or -nun
[07:10] <nalioth> ciao
[07:16] <Mez> ogra_, "his key appears in your ring" ??? 
[07:16] <Mez> ow
[07:17] <bddebian> :-)
[07:17] <ogra_> Mez, nalioths keyring: http://pgp.surfnet.nl:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&fingerprint=on&search=0xF0EE0D7C
[07:17] <ogra_> there is one signature
[07:17] <Mez> yeah :D 
[07:17] <Mez> I know
[07:18] <Mez> I was just commenting on your choice of words
[07:18] <bddebian> hehe
[07:18] <Mez> http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?FROM=A2D06936&TO=6AAAA569&PATHS=trust+paths
[07:45] <Seveas> bddebian, there?
[07:45] <bddebian> Aye
[07:45] <Seveas> hi :)
[07:45] <Seveas> I missed the last part of the meeting
[07:45] <bddebian> Hello
[07:45] <Seveas> did your application get covered?
[07:46] <bddebian> Seveas: Yes, thank you
[07:46] <Seveas> ok
[07:46] <Seveas> you got accepted?
[07:46] <Mez> yes
[07:46] <Seveas> nice :)
[07:46] <Seveas> final question: new date is Aug 2 22:00 UTC?
[07:47] <bddebian> Seveas: I think so :)
[08:00] <ogra_> Seveas, 20:00
[08:00] <sladen> win 38
[08:06] <kbrooks> 2:00 
[08:06] <kbrooks> no
[08:06] <kbrooks> 12:00
[08:06] <kbrooks> :| thats lunch
 august 2nd
[08:07] <ogra_> * sivang wants to express his joyfulness for attending a partial CC meeting
 thanks mako 
 thanks all
 at say, UTC20?
[08:08] <tseng> bye
[08:13] <kbrooks> :)
[09:09] <Seveas> 20:00?
[09:09] <Seveas> nice :)
[09:09] <Seveas> that means no midnight meetings
[09:24] <Mez> :P