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Nafallomorning :-)01:08
kafeinefor the icon breezy thingie01:15
kafeineis there a list somewhere with the icons that arent yet done01:15
kafeineaaaand where can i see some icons which are already in this to-be set01:15
kafeineso i could make them more.. consistent?01:15
Nafallothis is what's being worked on for breezy :-)01:18
kafeinethank you:)01:19
Nafallono problem :-)01:23
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efbieI made some new icons (for a few more info see mailing-list) :: http://www.mentalwarp.com/~fred/divers/humility-fred-contrib.zip02:00
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tvossHi all, is there already a package available for the Humility-Icon-Theme11:43
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ogra_tvoss, yes, i got it locally....11:45
tvossogra_ can you send by mail to t.voss"at"onlinehome.de11:46
ogra_i'll upload it today, jst apt-get it then ;)11:46
tvossogra_ hoary or breezy?11:47
ogra_breezy... but for a icontheme that doesnt matter11:47
ogra_they are interchangeable11:47
Nafalloor get them there ^ ;-)11:49
ogra_Nafallo, thats not a package ;)11:50
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Nafalloogra_: depends on your definition of package :-)11:51
ogra_mine has a .deb in the end :)11:52
ogra_(my definition as well as my package ;))11:52
RQit's useless as long as X doesn't work, anyways :D11:54
RQogra_, what will the name of the package be?11:55
ogra_humility-icon-theme ?11:55
RQgreat :)11:55
RQi hope it will remain like that.11:56
ogra_i'm pondering if i should put a gnome- in fromt... 11:57
RQbtw are you guys responsible for the colour themes in Ubuntu?11:57
ogra_front even11:57
ogra_not yet11:57
RQhmm... maybe not... if it works with KDE too.11:57
ogra_but the colors will be a responsibility of the art team11:57
RQI have a sugestion - don't keep the name of the package if you change it quite radically11:58
RQfor example, i liked the soft brown colours in Warthy much more then those in Hoary11:58
RQso it wasn't very pleasing to find out that I can only have one of these themes at a time.11:59
RQso I'd suggest that you name them distinctively so that the user could have both of them installed12:00
RQ(that's for the future, of course)12:01
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tvosswrt humility icon theme: An icon for a samba share is missing01:57
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:ogra] : Ubuntu Artwork Channel | wiki IconGuide up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconGuide | breezy icon theme sitting in NEW, install gnome-humility-icon-theme as soon as it hits the archive
RQogra, so you've added "gnome-"..02:16
ograyep, after talking to our KDE maintainer02:16
ograKDE will need a) repackaging anyway b) wont use them02:17
RQi thought there's a common freedesktop format now :|02:18
ograKDE uses other names for the icons, so they all will have to be renamed 02:18
ograRQ, gnome uses gnome-fs-home.svg for example :)02:18
ogranearly all icons have a prefix02:19
RQbut as i said - i thought they've agreed on that fd.org standard02:19
ograsure... but if you look at KDE you'll find that it stores setings and theme data in .desktop files which is as wrong as having a gone- prefix on icons... i guess there is still a way to go for both02:20
RQyeah, well...02:21
RQi wonder what that standard specifies then..02:22
ograi havent read it... i'm only the packaging bitch here :) *shrug*02:22
Nafalloogra: almost entirely true ;-)02:24
Nafalloogra: care to review and upload libdc0 btw? it's on universeunmetdeps02:25
Nafallo</OT> ;-)02:25
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Nafallogothcat: welcome :-)07:29
gothcathi every one :)07:29
=== Nafallo introduces his girlfriend: gothcat :-)
ograhey gothcat 07:32
gothcatogra: hi :)07:37
Nafalloogra: she've seen pictures of you ;-)07:39
ograthe nice ones i hope :)07:39
Nafallomostly from mataro and udu :-)07:42
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lukacuhi :)08:36
kafeinehello :D08:39
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kafeinethat was mm09:27
kafeineanyone with an opinion on the wiki vs. groupware thing which was the main conversation on the mailing list?09:27
efbieIMHO the wiki is there and working, we should work with what we have now, and focus on producing artwork rather than discussing for years on a non-issue. If it really become impossible with the wiki, then we could look for an alternative...09:30
ograbut since i'm a maintainer and involved in X diffeent ubuntu teams that all do their work n the wiki i'm vers biased09:30
ogravery even09:30
ograi agree with jane that we need something better to put the artwork stuff up, but i would perfer to work with this group like with every other in ubuntu09:31
NafalloI don't actually think this team will want to diverge to much from the rest of the community. that will only lead to isolation.09:31
kafeinethen again, i think that artists in the common case aren't as used to wiki-based work as developers are, for example09:33
ograadditionally i know how overworked our administrators are and that nobody wants to be admin of php stuff in the team, so it would have to be on a vserver that is maintained by us09:33
Nafallowell, I'm not used to the wiki yet. that doesn't stop me from using it.09:33
efbieNafallo++ :)09:34
NafalloI believe jane's mail told what ogra and I would love to see anyway :-). right ogra?09:35
ogralikely :) 09:35
ograsince jane is my boss and holds the whip :)09:36
ograno, seriously... my opiion is the above, but i know that its technically possible to have a vserver and run our own stuff... so lets see how a voting evolves :)09:37
kafeinemy stance is that it will be lot more easier to use some tool that is exclusively made for such kind of teamwork and project leading09:37
Nafallokafeine: and that is?09:38
kafeineand proper, anyway09:38
kafeinemm, phpgroupware or something like it09:39
kafeineor, as it was proposed, basecamp09:39
Nafallowell, that depends. the wiki would work for projectgoals, calendar, information and those kind of things.09:39
Nafallobasecamp wasn't F/OSS09:39
ograi think what we need is a good revision control system to coordinate the collaborative artwork stuff (iconsets etc) and a good presentation platform (gallery, the art.gnome.org software etc) and coordinatig work should be done like in all other areas of ubuntu (IRC, wiki, mailinglist)09:40
ograkafeine, whats the usecase of phpgroupware ? what do you need a calendar for ?09:41
Nafallolaunchpad has personal calendars now. isn't that enough?09:41
ograi really dont see the need for such stuff... as long as we are communicative09:41
Nafallohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar suffice for most things that will need a calendar now.09:42
Nafalloplus the ical version ofcourse :-)09:43
kafeinemy own concern is the visual orientation of this team09:43
ograhmm, but does that need a groupware ?09:43
kafeineand the fact that the people who work with the visual arts, are, well, used to visual tools09:44
Nafalloand a calendar?09:44
kafeinenot necesarilly, no09:44
kafeineand i certainly havent really said anything about no calendar09:44
ograhats the main usecase of phpgroupware, sharig calendars09:44
ograthats even09:44
kafeinein those systems, most entries are presented in a much more intuitive way09:45
kafeineand show up where you expect them to be09:45
kafeineas projects09:45
kafeinepeople who work on projects09:45
ograhmm, depends how you define intuitive...09:45
Nafallowell, the wiki have things were you told them to be :-)09:46
kafeinei certainly dont define intuitive as located somewhere in a pile of text in a page that looks exactly as the last one09:46
kafeinebut anyway, that's just me:)09:46
kafeinei'll work with anything09:46
Nafalloand I love to find things were I left them :-)09:46
ograi will go with the group decision.... :)09:47
kafeinesame here09:47
kafeineanyway, can someone put up a list with all the icons that need to be done09:47
kafeineand all the icons that are done already, propositions for icons, etc09:48
kafeineand posting some guidelines for the promo materials (posters, flyers, stickers) in near time would be nice, too09:48
ograi think all mime types, all apps and folders wer the desired target09:48
Nafalloogra: all apps in main and restricted I hope you mean?09:49
ograi guess so09:49
ograwe'll need at least 16x16, 22x22, 24x24 and 48x48 bitmap versions and scalable svg versions...09:50
efbiethat's a work of titans09:50
ograand beware, you cant just scale down the svg and make a bitmap of it.... bitmaps need to be redone manually to work out the details09:51
Nafallowhen was the meeting again?09:51
ograefbie, AndyFitz has already done a lot09:51
ograand yes, its a hell lot of work09:52
efbieogra: yes i know, :) i did a bunch of icons too09:52
efbiebut retouching pixel by pixel will be a _Huge_ work09:52
efbiesome things can be automated09:53
ograbut we want a awesome iconset, dont we ?09:53
ograin my opinion it should impress the world as ubuntu itself does ;)09:53
efbieit should make mac peope jealous09:54
kafeinehard job:D09:54
efbiebut not impossible09:54
ograand its not only icons :)09:55
kafeinewhat a relief:D09:55
ograsplash, wallpaper etc09:55
efbiethe hard thing is to make beautiful artwork that remains "professional"09:56
efbiegnome defaults look professional, but isn't that beautiful09:57
ograhave you seen what jimmac does ? a quality like that would be the greatest... 09:58
ograhe did the gnome default years back... but does also custom sets for ximian/novell09:59
efbieyes it's really nice09:59
ograand the custom sets *are* beautiful :)10:00
kafeinewe need some more info on the various work that is to be done posted on the wiki10:04
kafeinecause i have no experience with icon making and i'm all useless right now10:04
efbieI would especially like to have artistical guidelines from Andy10:05
ogralets poke him if australia wakes up ;)10:07
ograalso keep in mind that sabdfl can overrule everything in ubuntu ;) so if he doesnt like it it might get dropped...10:08
efbieit scares me a little10:09
efbiecould we ask him an early review ?10:09
ogra(we had a really awful splashscreen short before the hoary release...he made the current one and dropped the ugly one...was a good decision)10:09
mpathyoh i am late.. I have a opinion too *gg*10:09
ograefbie, absolutely... he will want it... to see where it goes10:10
Nafalloogra: spatial was a bad though ;-)10:10
ograNafallo, he knows that ;)10:10
Nafalloogra: good :-)10:10
Nafallowell, shower for me and gothcat. bbl10:10
kafeinempathy, freedom of speech is here10:11
efbieas i must reinstall my system, do you think that it's a good idea to use breezy ?10:11
mpathykafeine: ..but I first have to read all the lines *g*10:11
kafeineefbie, not really10:12
ograefbie, probably in a week or two.... X is currently a PITA10:12
mpathywhats with this launchpad? its an ubuntu thing and have some nice tools.. but efbie you are right, its all secondary!10:13
ogrampathy, launchpad is for collaborative: translating, code development bugtracking beyond distro borders and community management... i dont think there is something usable for artwork development (except management stuff probably)10:15
ograits "sourceforge-next-generation" :)10:16
efbiewhat's lacking in the wiki is something to visualize thing10:17
mpathyogra: oh okay.. i looked over it only short time.. my problem with the wiki at ubuntu is, that its relatively unstructured.. 10:17
ogrampathy, its up to us to build a structure below our site....10:18
mpathyefbie: right! combined with some sort of upload area!?10:18
ogrampathy, and i think some people of the docteam would disagree about the "unstructured" (i agree with you btw ;) )10:19
mpathyogra: thx ;o) Its only because I want to keep the track, dont lost any information.. as long its all in the mailing list, its okay.. so because of that a central ubuntu-artwork news page would be good.10:21
efbieif there is a structure in the wiki it is far from being obvious...10:21
ograthe docteam is small :)10:21
ograthe wiki is big....10:22
mpathyWikipedia is even bigger and it works *gg*10:22
mpathyokay thats another thing10:22
ogrampathy, probably there are moin plugins we could get for the news stuff...10:22
mpathyogra: ehmm.. what wiki is the ubuntu wiki?10:23
mpathymoin moin=10:23
mpathyoh okay10:23
ograwe had plone and zwiki before,10:23
mpathysad that noone tries some of these nice ruby-based wikis :o)11:05
ogra*shudder* ruby *shudder*11:06
mpathyogra: hey! watch out ;)11:07
mpathylets guess: you are more the perl-guy, and your editor is emacs.. :)11:08
ograi'm the multi guy (C, perl, python (!!) a lot more...) an my editor is vim ;)11:09
mpathygood editor choice.. :) ..but i never get good friend with C, perhaps the force isnt with me.. ;)11:10
ograi was forced by ubuntu ;) 11:10
ogradidnt touch much C before ....11:11
mpathyapropos the force.. did you heard about "utnubu"? ..the empire strikes back *gg*11:13
ograyeah, its a great thing11:14
ograi was waiting for this quite some time already... so nobody cant blame us we wouldnt give back.... 11:14
ograsince i think its the job of the debian maintainers to grab our patches themselves...11:15
mpathyyes.. hope the padawan doesnt kill his master, like in star wars ;)11:15
ograbuit they always meant we'd have to send them every change we make11:15
ograno, it wont... we never can manage this amount of packages....11:15
ograubuntu has far less maintainers...11:16
mpathyno i meant accidentally..11:16
ograthat'd be very bad for us... we cant survive without debian....11:17
ograonly if the maintainers would switch over to us...11:17
mpathybecause of the hype. but right now the most people think about ubuntu as the "desktop debian".. thats okay for me..11:17
mpathymany did11:18
ogranot for me... :)11:18
ograits a perfect server OS as well...11:18
ograthe problem is to get this across to the people11:18
ograsince everybody is convinced ubuntu is only a desktop system11:19
mpathyshould produce a bit more server oriented news! :)11:19
ograyep, we're working on it ;)11:19
mpathylike "increased amount of BOFH excuses - fortunes" ;)11:22
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mpathysomeone started working on these calendar images?11:35
ogranot to my knowledge11:37
plbwhat about a metacity theme ;] 11:38
=== ogra likes the current one.... but lternatives never hurt ;)
efbieclearlooks is really nice, maybe a brown version would fit ?11:43
mpathyefbie: yes would be nice.. clearlooks is nice11:45
mpathyomg.. e17 is so awesome fast..11:45
ograit took them 6 years to develop it... so this should be the least ....11:47
mpathyhope ubuntu will be the first who gets it into his packages ;)11:47
ograsadly he made themself incompatible with the rest of the world, so you'll need to write a lot of apps for it...11:47
ograand it really crappy unstable for now...11:48
efbiee17 looks like the future, but now11:48
ogranothing to give to users11:48
ograefbie, e17 looks like a nice proof of concept thingie...but with their development speed you'll see the first stable release in about 5 years11:49
mpathyyes its not even a beta.. but its amazing :)11:49
ograsadly they work against freedesktop org... and they are no friends of it...11:50
ograraster (the e17 dev) wrote a lengthy rant against freedesktop, QT and GTK last year....11:51
efbieand i thought that linux was all about interoperability....11:52
ogra...not something that brings you many developers in to speed things up :(11:52
ograsure, you can run other apps on top... but its an additional ressource hog to have a WM that uses all its own stuff (libs etc)11:53
mpathybut they also have some good concepts.. and some not so good.. like most time..11:53
ogranicer would have been if they had put these ideas and the work into gnome or kde to improve these11:54
mpathythe other apps feels like they run at same speed..11:54
efbieand those next gen things like cairo and luminocity, are these science-fiction, or are they likely to be in gnome before the next duke nukem ? 11:54
ogracairo is already in breezy.. the breezy firefox already renders its fonts with it11:55
mpathyluminocity is not so different from the things that work even now on e17.. (as an non-programmers opinion *g*)11:55
ograluminocity will be ready soon... and xgl looks promising11:56
ograi saw demos of all of them at guadec this year11:56
mpathybut have a look anyway:11:56
ograand they are all developed by paied people that spend much time on improving them11:57
ogrampathy, i know the e17 movies :)11:57
mpathyogra: but thats new! 1-3 days old from a new live cd with a good working e1711:58
efbiempathy: looks quite nice :)11:59
ograyep, it improved12:01
mpathylot of progress in the last weeks/months..12:01

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