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| kafeine | hello | 01:08 |
|---|---|---|
| Nafallo | morning :-) | 01:08 |
| kafeine | mm | 01:14 |
| kafeine | for the icon breezy thingie | 01:15 |
| kafeine | is there a list somewhere with the icons that arent yet done | 01:15 |
| kafeine | aaaand where can i see some icons which are already in this to-be set | 01:15 |
| kafeine | so i could make them more.. consistent? | 01:15 |
| Nafallo | http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/humility-icons.tar.bz2 | 01:18 |
| Nafallo | this is what's being worked on for breezy :-) | 01:18 |
| kafeine | thank you:) | 01:19 |
| Nafallo | no problem :-) | 01:23 |
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| efbie | I made some new icons (for a few more info see mailing-list) :: http://www.mentalwarp.com/~fred/divers/humility-fred-contrib.zip | 02:00 |
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| tvoss | Hi all, is there already a package available for the Humility-Icon-Theme | 11:43 |
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| ogra_ | tvoss, yes, i got it locally.... | 11:45 |
| tvoss | ogra_ can you send by mail to t.voss"at"onlinehome.de | 11:46 |
| ogra_ | i'll upload it today, jst apt-get it then ;) | 11:46 |
| tvoss | ogra_ hoary or breezy? | 11:47 |
| ogra_ | breezy... but for a icontheme that doesnt matter | 11:47 |
| ogra_ | they are interchangeable | 11:47 |
| Nafallo | http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/humility-icons.tar.bz2 | 11:49 |
| Nafallo | or get them there ^ ;-) | 11:49 |
| ogra_ | Nafallo, thats not a package ;) | 11:50 |
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| Nafallo | ogra_: depends on your definition of package :-) | 11:51 |
| ogra_ | mine has a .deb in the end :) | 11:52 |
| Nafallo | :-) | 11:52 |
| ogra_ | (my definition as well as my package ;)) | 11:52 |
| RQ | ;) | 11:53 |
| RQ | it's useless as long as X doesn't work, anyways :D | 11:54 |
| RQ | ogra_, what will the name of the package be? | 11:55 |
| ogra_ | humility-icon-theme ? | 11:55 |
| RQ | great :) | 11:55 |
| RQ | i hope it will remain like that. | 11:56 |
| ogra_ | i'm pondering if i should put a gnome- in fromt... | 11:57 |
| RQ | btw are you guys responsible for the colour themes in Ubuntu? | 11:57 |
| ogra_ | front even | 11:57 |
| ogra_ | not yet | 11:57 |
| RQ | hmm... maybe not... if it works with KDE too. | 11:57 |
| RQ | hmm | 11:57 |
| ogra_ | but the colors will be a responsibility of the art team | 11:57 |
| RQ | I have a sugestion - don't keep the name of the package if you change it quite radically | 11:58 |
| RQ | for example, i liked the soft brown colours in Warthy much more then those in Hoary | 11:58 |
| RQ | so it wasn't very pleasing to find out that I can only have one of these themes at a time. | 11:59 |
| RQ | so I'd suggest that you name them distinctively so that the user could have both of them installed | 12:00 |
| RQ | (that's for the future, of course) | 12:01 |
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| tvoss | wrt humility icon theme: An icon for a samba share is missing | 01:57 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:ogra] : Ubuntu Artwork Channel | wiki IconGuide up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IconGuide | breezy icon theme sitting in NEW, install gnome-humility-icon-theme as soon as it hits the archive | ||
| RQ | ogra, so you've added "gnome-".. | 02:16 |
| ogra | yep, after talking to our KDE maintainer | 02:16 |
| ogra | KDE will need a) repackaging anyway b) wont use them | 02:17 |
| RQ | hm | 02:18 |
| RQ | i thought there's a common freedesktop format now :| | 02:18 |
| ogra | KDE uses other names for the icons, so they all will have to be renamed | 02:18 |
| RQ | weird.. | 02:18 |
| ogra | RQ, gnome uses gnome-fs-home.svg for example :) | 02:18 |
| RQ | ywah | 02:19 |
| ogra | nearly all icons have a prefix | 02:19 |
| RQ | but as i said - i thought they've agreed on that fd.org standard | 02:19 |
| ogra | sure... but if you look at KDE you'll find that it stores setings and theme data in .desktop files which is as wrong as having a gone- prefix on icons... i guess there is still a way to go for both | 02:20 |
| ogra | s/gone-/gnome- | 02:20 |
| RQ | yeah, well... | 02:21 |
| RQ | i wonder what that standard specifies then.. | 02:22 |
| ogra | i havent read it... i'm only the packaging bitch here :) *shrug* | 02:22 |
| Nafallo | ogra: almost entirely true ;-) | 02:24 |
| ogra | heh | 02:24 |
| Nafallo | ogra: care to review and upload libdc0 btw? it's on universeunmetdeps | 02:25 |
| Nafallo | </OT> ;-) | 02:25 |
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| Nafallo | gothcat: welcome :-) | 07:29 |
| gothcat | hi every one :) | 07:29 |
| === Nafallo introduces his girlfriend: gothcat :-) | ||
| lukacu | hi | 07:29 |
| ogra | hey gothcat | 07:32 |
| gothcat | ogra: hi :) | 07:37 |
| Nafallo | ogra: she've seen pictures of you ;-) | 07:39 |
| ogra | hehe | 07:39 |
| ogra | the nice ones i hope :) | 07:39 |
| Nafallo | mostly from mataro and udu :-) | 07:42 |
| ogra | ah.. | 07:45 |
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| mpathy | hi | 08:27 |
| lukacu | hi :) | 08:36 |
| kafeine | hello :D | 08:39 |
| gothcat | hi! | 08:52 |
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| kafeine | 09:26 | |
| kafeine | err | 09:27 |
| kafeine | that was mm | 09:27 |
| kafeine | anyway | 09:27 |
| kafeine | anyone with an opinion on the wiki vs. groupware thing which was the main conversation on the mailing list? | 09:27 |
| ogra | yes | 09:28 |
| Nafallo | yes | 09:29 |
| efbie | IMHO the wiki is there and working, we should work with what we have now, and focus on producing artwork rather than discussing for years on a non-issue. If it really become impossible with the wiki, then we could look for an alternative... | 09:30 |
| ogra | but since i'm a maintainer and involved in X diffeent ubuntu teams that all do their work n the wiki i'm vers biased | 09:30 |
| ogra | very even | 09:30 |
| ogra | i agree with jane that we need something better to put the artwork stuff up, but i would perfer to work with this group like with every other in ubuntu | 09:31 |
| Nafallo | I don't actually think this team will want to diverge to much from the rest of the community. that will only lead to isolation. | 09:31 |
| kafeine | then again, i think that artists in the common case aren't as used to wiki-based work as developers are, for example | 09:33 |
| ogra | additionally i know how overworked our administrators are and that nobody wants to be admin of php stuff in the team, so it would have to be on a vserver that is maintained by us | 09:33 |
| Nafallo | well, I'm not used to the wiki yet. that doesn't stop me from using it. | 09:33 |
| Nafallo | ogra++ | 09:33 |
| efbie | Nafallo++ :) | 09:34 |
| kafeine | hm | 09:34 |
| Nafallo | I believe jane's mail told what ogra and I would love to see anyway :-). right ogra? | 09:35 |
| ogra | likely :) | 09:35 |
| ogra | since jane is my boss and holds the whip :) | 09:36 |
| Nafallo | hehe | 09:36 |
| kafeine | :)) | 09:36 |
| ogra | no, seriously... my opiion is the above, but i know that its technically possible to have a vserver and run our own stuff... so lets see how a voting evolves :) | 09:37 |
| kafeine | my stance is that it will be lot more easier to use some tool that is exclusively made for such kind of teamwork and project leading | 09:37 |
| Nafallo | kafeine: and that is? | 09:38 |
| kafeine | and proper, anyway | 09:38 |
| kafeine | mm, phpgroupware or something like it | 09:39 |
| kafeine | or, as it was proposed, basecamp | 09:39 |
| Nafallo | well, that depends. the wiki would work for projectgoals, calendar, information and those kind of things. | 09:39 |
| Nafallo | basecamp wasn't F/OSS | 09:39 |
| ogra | i think what we need is a good revision control system to coordinate the collaborative artwork stuff (iconsets etc) and a good presentation platform (gallery, the art.gnome.org software etc) and coordinatig work should be done like in all other areas of ubuntu (IRC, wiki, mailinglist) | 09:40 |
| ogra | kafeine, whats the usecase of phpgroupware ? what do you need a calendar for ? | 09:41 |
| Nafallo | launchpad has personal calendars now. isn't that enough? | 09:41 |
| ogra | i really dont see the need for such stuff... as long as we are communicative | 09:41 |
| Nafallo | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar suffice for most things that will need a calendar now. | 09:42 |
| Nafallo | plus the ical version ofcourse :-) | 09:43 |
| kafeine | my own concern is the visual orientation of this team | 09:43 |
| kafeine | only* | 09:43 |
| ogra | hmm, but does that need a groupware ? | 09:43 |
| kafeine | and the fact that the people who work with the visual arts, are, well, used to visual tools | 09:44 |
| Nafallo | and a calendar? | 09:44 |
| kafeine | not necesarilly, no | 09:44 |
| kafeine | and i certainly havent really said anything about no calendar | 09:44 |
| kafeine | but | 09:44 |
| ogra | hats the main usecase of phpgroupware, sharig calendars | 09:44 |
| ogra | thats even | 09:44 |
| kafeine | in those systems, most entries are presented in a much more intuitive way | 09:45 |
| kafeine | and show up where you expect them to be | 09:45 |
| kafeine | as projects | 09:45 |
| kafeine | people who work on projects | 09:45 |
| kafeine | etc | 09:45 |
| ogra | hmm, depends how you define intuitive... | 09:45 |
| Nafallo | well, the wiki have things were you told them to be :-) | 09:46 |
| kafeine | i certainly dont define intuitive as located somewhere in a pile of text in a page that looks exactly as the last one | 09:46 |
| kafeine | but anyway, that's just me:) | 09:46 |
| kafeine | i'll work with anything | 09:46 |
| Nafallo | and I love to find things were I left them :-) | 09:46 |
| ogra | i will go with the group decision.... :) | 09:47 |
| kafeine | same here | 09:47 |
| kafeine | mm | 09:47 |
| kafeine | anyway, can someone put up a list with all the icons that need to be done | 09:47 |
| kafeine | and all the icons that are done already, propositions for icons, etc | 09:48 |
| kafeine | and posting some guidelines for the promo materials (posters, flyers, stickers) in near time would be nice, too | 09:48 |
| ogra | i think all mime types, all apps and folders wer the desired target | 09:48 |
| Nafallo | ogra: all apps in main and restricted I hope you mean? | 09:49 |
| ogra | i guess so | 09:49 |
| ogra | we'll need at least 16x16, 22x22, 24x24 and 48x48 bitmap versions and scalable svg versions... | 09:50 |
| efbie | that's a work of titans | 09:50 |
| ogra | and beware, you cant just scale down the svg and make a bitmap of it.... bitmaps need to be redone manually to work out the details | 09:51 |
| Nafallo | when was the meeting again? | 09:51 |
| ogra | efbie, AndyFitz has already done a lot | 09:51 |
| ogra | and yes, its a hell lot of work | 09:52 |
| efbie | ogra: yes i know, :) i did a bunch of icons too | 09:52 |
| efbie | but retouching pixel by pixel will be a _Huge_ work | 09:52 |
| ogra | yep | 09:53 |
| efbie | some things can be automated | 09:53 |
| ogra | but we want a awesome iconset, dont we ? | 09:53 |
| efbie | hehe | 09:53 |
| ogra | in my opinion it should impress the world as ubuntu itself does ;) | 09:53 |
| efbie | yep | 09:54 |
| efbie | it should make mac peope jealous | 09:54 |
| ogra | hehe | 09:54 |
| kafeine | hard job:D | 09:54 |
| ogra | yep | 09:54 |
| efbie | but not impossible | 09:54 |
| ogra | and its not only icons :) | 09:55 |
| kafeine | what a relief:D | 09:55 |
| ogra | splash, wallpaper etc | 09:55 |
| efbie | the hard thing is to make beautiful artwork that remains "professional" | 09:56 |
| efbie | gnome defaults look professional, but isn't that beautiful | 09:57 |
| ogra | have you seen what jimmac does ? a quality like that would be the greatest... | 09:58 |
| ogra | he did the gnome default years back... but does also custom sets for ximian/novell | 09:59 |
| efbie | yes it's really nice | 09:59 |
| ogra | and the custom sets *are* beautiful :) | 10:00 |
| kafeine | mm | 10:03 |
| kafeine | we need some more info on the various work that is to be done posted on the wiki | 10:04 |
| kafeine | cause i have no experience with icon making and i'm all useless right now | 10:04 |
| efbie | yep. | 10:05 |
| efbie | I would especially like to have artistical guidelines from Andy | 10:05 |
| ogra | lets poke him if australia wakes up ;) | 10:07 |
| ogra | also keep in mind that sabdfl can overrule everything in ubuntu ;) so if he doesnt like it it might get dropped... | 10:08 |
| efbie | yep | 10:08 |
| efbie | it scares me a little | 10:09 |
| efbie | could we ask him an early review ? | 10:09 |
| ogra | (we had a really awful splashscreen short before the hoary release...he made the current one and dropped the ugly one...was a good decision) | 10:09 |
| mpathy | oh i am late.. I have a opinion too *gg* | 10:09 |
| ogra | efbie, absolutely... he will want it... to see where it goes | 10:10 |
| Nafallo | ogra: spatial was a bad though ;-) | 10:10 |
| ogra | Nafallo, he knows that ;) | 10:10 |
| Nafallo | ogra: good :-) | 10:10 |
| Nafallo | well, shower for me and gothcat. bbl | 10:10 |
| kafeine | mpathy, freedom of speech is here | 10:11 |
| efbie | as i must reinstall my system, do you think that it's a good idea to use breezy ? | 10:11 |
| mpathy | kafeine: ..but I first have to read all the lines *g* | 10:11 |
| kafeine | efbie, not really | 10:12 |
| efbie | ok | 10:12 |
| ogra | efbie, probably in a week or two.... X is currently a PITA | 10:12 |
| efbie | k | 10:13 |
| mpathy | whats with this launchpad? its an ubuntu thing and have some nice tools.. but efbie you are right, its all secondary! | 10:13 |
| ogra | mpathy, launchpad is for collaborative: translating, code development bugtracking beyond distro borders and community management... i dont think there is something usable for artwork development (except management stuff probably) | 10:15 |
| ogra | its "sourceforge-next-generation" :) | 10:16 |
| efbie | what's lacking in the wiki is something to visualize thing | 10:17 |
| mpathy | ogra: oh okay.. i looked over it only short time.. my problem with the wiki at ubuntu is, that its relatively unstructured.. | 10:17 |
| ogra | mpathy, its up to us to build a structure below our site.... | 10:18 |
| mpathy | efbie: right! combined with some sort of upload area!? | 10:18 |
| ogra | mpathy, and i think some people of the docteam would disagree about the "unstructured" (i agree with you btw ;) ) | 10:19 |
| mpathy | ogra: thx ;o) Its only because I want to keep the track, dont lost any information.. as long its all in the mailing list, its okay.. so because of that a central ubuntu-artwork news page would be good. | 10:21 |
| efbie | if there is a structure in the wiki it is far from being obvious... | 10:21 |
| ogra | heh | 10:21 |
| ogra | the docteam is small :) | 10:21 |
| ogra | the wiki is big.... | 10:22 |
| mpathy | Wikipedia is even bigger and it works *gg* | 10:22 |
| mpathy | okay thats another thing | 10:22 |
| ogra | mpathy, probably there are moin plugins we could get for the news stuff... | 10:22 |
| mpathy | ogra: ehmm.. what wiki is the ubuntu wiki? | 10:23 |
| ogra | moin | 10:23 |
| mpathy | moin moin= | 10:23 |
| mpathy | oh okay | 10:23 |
| ogra | we had plone and zwiki before, | 10:23 |
| mpathy | sad that noone tries some of these nice ruby-based wikis :o) | 11:05 |
| ogra | *shudder* ruby *shudder* | 11:06 |
| ogra | :) | 11:06 |
| mpathy | ogra: hey! watch out ;) | 11:07 |
| ogra | hehe | 11:07 |
| mpathy | lets guess: you are more the perl-guy, and your editor is emacs.. :) | 11:08 |
| ogra | nope | 11:08 |
| ogra | i'm the multi guy (C, perl, python (!!) a lot more...) an my editor is vim ;) | 11:09 |
| mpathy | good editor choice.. :) ..but i never get good friend with C, perhaps the force isnt with me.. ;) | 11:10 |
| ogra | i was forced by ubuntu ;) | 11:10 |
| ogra | didnt touch much C before .... | 11:11 |
| mpathy | apropos the force.. did you heard about "utnubu"? ..the empire strikes back *gg* | 11:13 |
| ogra | yeah, its a great thing | 11:14 |
| ogra | i was waiting for this quite some time already... so nobody cant blame us we wouldnt give back.... | 11:14 |
| ogra | since i think its the job of the debian maintainers to grab our patches themselves... | 11:15 |
| mpathy | yes.. hope the padawan doesnt kill his master, like in star wars ;) | 11:15 |
| ogra | buit they always meant we'd have to send them every change we make | 11:15 |
| ogra | no, it wont... we never can manage this amount of packages.... | 11:15 |
| ogra | ubuntu has far less maintainers... | 11:16 |
| mpathy | no i meant accidentally.. | 11:16 |
| mpathy | :o) | 11:16 |
| ogra | that'd be very bad for us... we cant survive without debian.... | 11:17 |
| ogra | only if the maintainers would switch over to us... | 11:17 |
| mpathy | because of the hype. but right now the most people think about ubuntu as the "desktop debian".. thats okay for me.. | 11:17 |
| mpathy | many did | 11:18 |
| ogra | not for me... :) | 11:18 |
| ogra | its a perfect server OS as well... | 11:18 |
| ogra | the problem is to get this across to the people | 11:18 |
| ogra | since everybody is convinced ubuntu is only a desktop system | 11:19 |
| mpathy | should produce a bit more server oriented news! :) | 11:19 |
| ogra | yep, we're working on it ;) | 11:19 |
| mpathy | like "increased amount of BOFH excuses - fortunes" ;) | 11:22 |
| ogra | heh | 11:23 |
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| mpathy | someone started working on these calendar images? | 11:35 |
| efbie | nope | 11:37 |
| ogra | not to my knowledge | 11:37 |
| plb | what about a metacity theme ;] | 11:38 |
| === ogra likes the current one.... but lternatives never hurt ;) | ||
| ogra | +a | 11:39 |
| plb | heh | 11:39 |
| efbie | clearlooks is really nice, maybe a brown version would fit ? | 11:43 |
| mpathy | ll | 11:44 |
| mpathy | efbie: yes would be nice.. clearlooks is nice | 11:45 |
| mpathy | omg.. e17 is so awesome fast.. | 11:45 |
| ogra | it took them 6 years to develop it... so this should be the least .... | 11:47 |
| mpathy | hope ubuntu will be the first who gets it into his packages ;) | 11:47 |
| ogra | sadly he made themself incompatible with the rest of the world, so you'll need to write a lot of apps for it... | 11:47 |
| ogra | and it really crappy unstable for now... | 11:48 |
| efbie | e17 looks like the future, but now | 11:48 |
| ogra | nothing to give to users | 11:48 |
| ogra | efbie, e17 looks like a nice proof of concept thingie...but with their development speed you'll see the first stable release in about 5 years | 11:49 |
| mpathy | yes its not even a beta.. but its amazing :) | 11:49 |
| ogra | sadly they work against freedesktop org... and they are no friends of it... | 11:50 |
| ogra | raster (the e17 dev) wrote a lengthy rant against freedesktop, QT and GTK last year.... | 11:51 |
| efbie | and i thought that linux was all about interoperability.... | 11:52 |
| ogra | ...not something that brings you many developers in to speed things up :( | 11:52 |
| efbie | lol | 11:52 |
| ogra | sure, you can run other apps on top... but its an additional ressource hog to have a WM that uses all its own stuff (libs etc) | 11:53 |
| mpathy | but they also have some good concepts.. and some not so good.. like most time.. | 11:53 |
| ogra | nicer would have been if they had put these ideas and the work into gnome or kde to improve these | 11:54 |
| mpathy | the other apps feels like they run at same speed.. | 11:54 |
| efbie | and those next gen things like cairo and luminocity, are these science-fiction, or are they likely to be in gnome before the next duke nukem ? | 11:54 |
| ogra | cairo is already in breezy.. the breezy firefox already renders its fonts with it | 11:55 |
| mpathy | luminocity is not so different from the things that work even now on e17.. (as an non-programmers opinion *g*) | 11:55 |
| ogra | luminocity will be ready soon... and xgl looks promising | 11:56 |
| ogra | i saw demos of all of them at guadec this year | 11:56 |
| mpathy | but have a look anyway: | 11:56 |
| mpathy | http://livecd.debianitas.net/screenshots/prueba2.mpg | 11:56 |
| ogra | and they are all developed by paied people that spend much time on improving them | 11:57 |
| ogra | mpathy, i know the e17 movies :) | 11:57 |
| mpathy | ogra: but thats new! 1-3 days old from a new live cd with a good working e17 | 11:58 |
| efbie | mpathy: looks quite nice :) | 11:59 |
| ogra | yep, it improved | 12:01 |
| mpathy | lot of progress in the last weeks/months.. | 12:01 |
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