[12:07] <comadreja> mjg59 : ping
=== terrex se va a ver la tele // is going to watch tv
[12:13] <mjg59> comadreja: Hi
[12:14] <comadreja> mjg59 : I've been told that I should contact you regarding the laptop support
[12:15] <comadreja> mjg59 : I'd like to help on that for breezy
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[12:35] <Burgundavia> ogra_, afaik, there are no mediawiki debs, anywhere on the internet
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[12:36] <Burgundavia> ogra_, if you had read planet.ubuntu a while back you might have learned that, as I blogged about it
[12:47] <herzi> hmm, new libxrender-dev doesn't include /usr/lib/libXrender.la anymore
[12:47] <herzi> :(
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=== pitti -> sleep, cu tomorrow
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[01:36] <Burgundavia> ogra_, apparently I was wrong. Try here http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Running_MediaWiki_on_Debian_GNU/Linux
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[01:38] <Burgundavia> ogra_, and http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=276057
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[02:32] <srbaker1> yo
[02:32] <srbaker1> i'm trying tog et fox compiled, from the debian source package (and frmo source) but it's not working, i keep getting:
[02:32] <srbaker1> ../src/.libs/libFOX-1.2.so: undefined reference to `XF86VidModeQueryVersion'
[02:32] <srbaker1> ../src/.libs/libFOX-1.2.so: undefined reference to `XF86VidModeGetModeLine'
[02:32] <srbaker1> anyone know anything about this?
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[02:34] <calc> how do you make xlibs -42 install with xkeyboard-config ?
[02:34] <calc> it keeps failing for me saying the dir isn't empty
[02:34] <calc> if xkeyboard-config isn't already installed it just fails with an error 1 in postinst
[02:35] <calc> hmm i don't need to have xlibs installed apparently though stuff depends on it
[02:35] <calc> so its breakage is still not too good
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=== calc found the bug 12743 about it
[02:51] <schweeb> calc: rm /etc/X11/xkb/*
[02:58] <mdke> calc, there is a bug which explains how
[02:58] <mdke> ah
[02:58] <mdke> yeah i think its 12743
[02:59] <mdke> comment 1
[03:01] <calc> schweeb: that isn't how to fix it, but it tells how in the bug report
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[03:14] <lupus1010> dbus package maintainer here?
[03:16] <lu|away> hrm
[03:16] <lu|away> daily liveCDs hosed?
[03:18] <lu|away> the report looks like it is testing ia64, but only amd64 is on the ftp server, and no x86
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=== davyd polls Mithrandir 
[03:42] <daniels> doko: calm down dude, it['s in the process of being fixed, mmmkay?
=== davyd bings at daniels 
[03:46] <infinity> daniels!
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[03:48] <daniels> infinity: bing
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[03:48] <infinity> bong
[03:48] <daniels> bung
[03:49] <infinity> You know what would make me the happiest boy on earth?
[03:49] <lu|away> o/~ all you need is love o/~
[03:50] <infinity> Love and millions of dollars, sure.
[03:50] <infinity> But, barring that, installible xbase-clients would be swell.
[03:50] <lu|away> heh
[03:51] <lu|away> love is better than X
[03:51] <infinity> Sure, but I /have/ love.
[03:51] <infinity> And, much like X, love can sometimes be a drag.
[03:51] <lu|away> I do too, though admittedly she is pretty sure I prefer X to her
[03:53] <daniels> infinity: actually, installable is bad for the time being
[03:53] <daniels> infinity: i need to get everything building externally and then replace it.  which I'm working on.
[03:57] <infinity> Oh, fine, be picky.  Go for installible and functional, then.
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[03:58] <daniels> at least the FTBFSes are more obvious this way
[03:59] <infinity> Rather, yes.
[03:59] <daniels> do you have a list handy of how many packages are stalling on xbase-clients and xutils
[03:59] <daniels> ?
[03:59] <infinity> Anything vaguely GNOME-related.
[03:59] <daniels> cock.  seriously?
[03:59] <davyd> I'm sure most of it shouldn't be
[04:00] <infinity> Yeah.  No big deal, though.  It's no more than a few hours of backlog once you get fixed packages uploaded
[04:00] <daniels> daniels@brainfreeze:~/canonical/xorg/monolith/xorg-6.8.2% dpkg-deb -c ~/mirror/ubuntu/pool/main/x/xorg/xbase-clients_6.8.2-10_amd64.deb | grep bin/ | wc -l 91
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[04:00] <daniels> i'm working on it
[04:01] <infinity> Cool.
[04:01] <infinity> I'll go work on something else while I wait.  Lord knows my TODO is longer than my available time anyway.
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[04:04] <lu|away> if your TODO isn't longer than your available time, you're not interesting ;)
[04:06] <daniels> heh
[04:07] <bddebian> aye
[04:11] <bddebian> daniels: You know much about qmake?
[04:15] <mgalvin> dang it, the most recent updates cause totem hang, i can't watch marks talk at debconf :(
[04:16] <daniels> bddebian: mercifully, no
[04:16] <daniels> i'm battling the build system to build imake now
[04:16] <daniels> most arcane thing I've ever seen
[04:16] <daniels> and I've seen the X build system using imake
[04:17] <mgalvin> nevermind, i think i found a matching bug, 12584
[04:17] <bddebian> Ugh. :-(
[04:18] <bddebian> I need to patch the Makefile but cdbs-edit-patch doesn't expand enough to run qmake to get the make file and if I run it manually it diffs against an empty Makefile :-(
[04:20] <wasabi> Hmm odd.
[04:20] <wasabi> THis new box is locking up on Starting hotplug subsystem.
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[04:31] <blueyed> I need to recompile suexec2 (because of mod_chroot) for Apache. How would I do that?
[04:32] <bddebian> apt-get source suexec2 ?
[04:32] <infinity> s/suexec2/apache2/
[04:32] <bddebian> heh, whooops
[04:32] <blueyed> apache2-common is the package, yes. But then? Do I have to apply the patches before?
[04:33] <infinity> blueyed : If you have patches to the source, drop those patches in debian/patches, add a new entry to debian/changelog, then run 'dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us'
[04:33] <infinity> blueyed : That will give you your custom build of apache2.
[04:34] <blueyed> Thanks a lot, infinity. I'll try it.
[04:34] <infinity> And yes, making suexec build out-of-tree is on my TODO for apache 2.2 packaging.  It gets requested constantly.
=== infinity wonders if "-uc -us" will every become the default for dpkg-buildpackage.
=== infinity stares at Keybuk.
[04:36] <infinity> s/every/ever/
[04:36] <blueyed> infinity: could I also edit the file in the upstream tarball and add a changelog entry, without the patch. would be easier. I need another docroot for suexec only anyway..
[04:36] <bddebian> infinity: I use them but doesn't us have issues with -S -sa?
[04:37] <infinity> bddebian : No.  Why would it?
[04:37] <infinity> bddebian : It just means "unsigned changes, unsigned source"... You can sign them later with debsign.
[04:37] <bddebian> I dunno, I had a problem recently when combining them.  I used to always use -us -tc
[04:38] <infinity> I use "-uc -us -S -sa" with many Ubuntu builds, then debsign when I'm ready to upload.
[04:38] <bddebian> Oh, you sign them after the fact then
[04:38] <bddebian> Ahh
[04:38] <infinity> Makes no sense to sign everything you build, just stuff you plan to distribute.
[04:38] <bddebian> Aye
[04:39] <blueyed> Can I just edit /debian/rules ?
[04:39] <bddebian> Sure
[04:39] <infinity> blueyed : If all you need to "patch" is debian/rules, then yes, edit that.
[04:39] <infinity> blueyed : debian/patches is just for patches against the upstream source.
[04:40] <infinity> blueyed : Anything under debian/ is fair game to edit directly.
[04:40] <bddebian> infinity: Do you know qmake?
[04:40] <infinity> bddebian : Even if I did, I wouldn't admit to it.
[04:40] <bddebian> Gah
[04:40] <infinity> (Also, no, I don't, thankfully)
[04:41] <bddebian> Dang it.  It's a simple patch
[04:42] <blueyed> Great. What is the changelog entry for? Will the version number be taken thereof? I once build openssh-server patched and apt keeps asking me to update to the same (original) version.
[04:44] <infinity> blueyed : The package version is taken from the changelog, yes.
[04:45] <infinity> blueyed : In 99% of packages, anyway.
[04:45] <blueyed> So I add "-myname" at the end?
[04:45] <bddebian> blueyed: dch -i
[04:45] <infinity> Avoid dashes.
[04:45] <infinity> + would be good.
[04:46] <infinity> 2.0.54-2ubuntu1+blueyed (or whatever)
[04:46] <blueyed> Thanks, infinity. What do you mean, bddebian?
[04:46] <infinity> More than one dash in a version number could cause undefined behaviour with some package managers, since it's not valid.
[04:47] <infinity> blueyed : If you install "devscripts", "dch -i" will start up a new changelog entry for you automagically.
[04:47] <bddebian> blueyed: dch is a debhelper script to edit the ChangeLog.  -i increments the version by 1
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[04:49] <abarbaccia> hey guys - whats the status of breezy - useable?
[04:50] <bddebian> Of course
[04:50] <bddebian> :-)
[04:50] <bddebian> As long as you don't mind a little bit of pain now and again ;-)
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[04:50] <abarbaccia> better question - 
[04:50] <abarbaccia> i have a rio carbon and its saying it doesn't like the USB port in hoary - think it'll work in breezy
[04:51] <blueyed> Thank you guys, it builds. infinity: please think about a solution to not have to (patch and) compile it everytime from source when you need another docroot (like with mod_chroot).
[04:51] <bddebian> abarbaccia: That, I don't know.
[04:52] <lupus1010> it's kernel depended thing?
[04:52] <carstenh> how do I escape ^ in the ubuntu-wiki?
[04:53] <carstenh> maybe it it possible to use its ASCII-code?
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[04:58] <bddebian> infinity: Well do you at least know in a cdbs package, if I diff the Makefile manually will it be created by the time patch runs?
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[05:00] <robitaille> carstenh: just type ^   It seems to work for me...
[05:01] <robitaille> but wiki questions are probably better on #ubuntu-doc
[05:02] <carstenh> robitaille: does not work for me :/ i will just add a note like "imagine /\ as what you get when you press shift-6" ;) thanks 
[05:04] <robitaille> carstenh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TestTitle
[05:05] <robitaille> and probably not everyone in the world  gets ^ with shift-6.
[05:06] <carstenh> robitaille: strange, thanks :)
[05:07] <carstenh> robitaille: then it should work on my wiki too. i'll test it again :)
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[05:09] <daniels> infinity: when are we transitioning?
[05:09] <daniels> infinity: i'm ready to do my part of it (and fix xlibs as part of the bargain) whenever
[05:10] <carstenh> robitaille: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TestTitle <- my problem were two ^ one one line
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[05:17] <mrd`> I'm sure the devs are working on it, but is there any update (or anywhere I can check) on the status of fixing xbase-clients?  (The bugzilla report doesn't have much info.)
[05:18] <lu|away> daniels: you should put xbase-clients info in /topic ;)
[05:18] <ajmitch> bddebian: /win 36
[05:18] <ajmitch> gah
[05:18] <bddebian> Uh?
[05:19] <TerminX> rol, I see people do that so many times a day..
[05:19] <ajmitch> bddebian: mistake, don't worry :)
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:daniels] : Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | If you have unexpectedly lost editbugs privileges, talk to mdz/ogra/kiko | Colony CD 2 released | yes, X is broken.
[05:21] <daniels> mrd`: 'i'm packaging like a monkey on speed'
[05:22] <TerminX> you should append a "shut up and deal with it" to the end of the topic ;)
[05:22] <mrd`> daniels: I figured as much. :)
[05:22] <mrd`> TerminX: I'm dealing with it, I'm just interested in the status of things.
[05:22] <TerminX> mrd`: oh, I wasn't aiming that comment at you specifically
[05:23] <TerminX> I just imagine people have been asking 24/7
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[05:23] <mrd`> TerminX: Ah, yeah.
[05:23] <lu|away> I demand #daniels
[05:23] <mrd`> lol
[05:23] <lu|away> with a bot echoing his every terminal command
[05:23] <mrd`> Excellent.
[05:24] <daniels> haha
[05:24] <daniels> lu|away: come up with a g-t patch to facilitate that and it will be done
[05:24] <lu|away> haha
[05:24] <mrd`> Or just setup vnc so that everyone using breezy can connect and watch. :)
[05:24] <TerminX> somebody should come up with a g-t patch to make the tabs wrap around (so when you hit next tab on the last tab, it goes to the first tab.. you know, like every other tabbed application anyone uses ;)
[05:25] <daniels> lu|away: you're an engineer, aren't you?
[05:25] <daniels> TerminX: you're telling me
[05:25] <daniels> and to allow you to move tabs around
=== mrd` prefers to just use multiple terminals instead of tabs.
[05:25] <TerminX> it's probably shit simple to do
[05:25] <mrd`> But, that's just me. :)
[05:26] <TerminX> I mean, Gaim can do it.. surely hacking it into g-t couldn't be /that/ difficult
[05:27] <lu|away> daniels: so I hear
[05:27] <lu|away> daniels: some day I plan to engineer the notetaking app I just blogged about
[05:28] <daniels> heh
[05:28] <daniels> enginamaneer
[05:28] <lu|away> daniels: and then I will be done forever, vanishing in a dark cloud of social science
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[05:41] <blueyed> Now I've build my own Apache2 package (with another configure docroot option for suexec2), but the error stays the same: "cannot get docroot information (/var/www)". "suexec2 -V" says: "-D AP_DOC_ROOT="/"" - but thats probably another issue then.. :/
[05:42] <blueyed> it's with mod_chroot and mod_fastcgi
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[06:24] <fabbione> morning
[06:30] <daniels> infinity: ?
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[06:44] <trulux> morning
[06:44] <trulux> fabbione: hey
[06:45] <fabbione> hey trulux 
[06:46] <trulux> fabbione: how's it going?
[06:46] <trulux> fabbione: do you mind if I /query you?
[06:51] <fabbione> trulux: just woke up
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[07:29] <Kosai> Hello.  I'm running a hoary install on powerpc, and I mistyped the first screeen of "set new root password".  Now, every time I go back into that menu, it prompts me to retype the password (which I don't know, because it was mistyped) correctly, and won't let me give an initial password again.
[07:29] <Kosai> Has anyone seen this before/does anyone have a suggestion for what I can do?
[07:33] <trulux> fabbione: heh, I woke up one day ago ;)
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[07:50] <sfvt> Kosai: that question would be more appropriate on #ubuntu... that said, from what you've said I'm not sure what you're talking about :) 
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[08:52] <pef> hi
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[09:01] <trulux> pitti: heya!
[09:02] <pitti> Good morning
[09:02] <trulux> pitti: what's up?
[09:02] <trulux> pitti: just woke up? :)
[09:02] <pitti> trulux: yes, I slept far too long today
[09:04] <trulux> pitti: argh, not my case. I needed to do some work
[09:04] <trulux> I will go to sleep in a few hours
[09:04] <trulux> like the Cookie monster :)
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[09:20] <trulux> JaneW: morning!
[09:21] <JaneW> hi trulux
[09:21] <trulux> JaneW: how's it going?
[09:22] <JaneW> trulux: good thanks and you?
=== davyd pokes Mithrandir gently
=== highvoltage pokes Mithrandir too
[09:27] <highvoltage> davyd: i think he's dead.
[09:27] <davyd> understood
[09:28] <sladen> he might be too busy poking samira
[09:28] <jsgotangco> JaneW: hi!
[09:28] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:29] <Mithrandir> davyd: pong?
[09:29] <davyd> Mithrandir: I'm told you're the man to talk to with regards to amd64
[09:29] <Mithrandir> davyd: that's correct
[09:30] <davyd> Mithrandir: have you spent much time doing dev in a chroot?
[09:30] <Mithrandir> well, it depends on what I'm doing.  I've used them a fair amount, sure.
[09:30] <davyd> do you know why gdb wouldn't work?
[09:30] <davyd> I get a 'generic error' and gdb has to be killed from the command line
[09:31] <Mithrandir> hm, sounds weird.
[09:31] <Mithrandir> is proc mounted?
[09:32] <davyd> yes
[09:32] <JaneW> hi jsgotangco 
[09:32] <davyd> (gdb) r
[09:32] <davyd> Starting program: /bin/ls
[09:32] <davyd> [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled] 
[09:32] <davyd> Error while reading shared library symbols:
[09:32] <davyd> Cannot find new threads: generic error
[09:32] <JaneW> why so much poking? ;)
[09:32] <infinity> daniels : I'm ready anytime this evening to make everything happy.
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[09:33] <Mithrandir> davyd: kernel version?
[09:34] <davyd> 2.6.12-3-amd64-generic
[09:34] <Mithrandir> davyd: hm, weird.  My amd64 development system still isn't unpacked after I moved, so I don't have a full breezy devel system (that is, breezy base system ++), so it might be kernel-related.  I've never seen it before, at least.
[09:34] <davyd> Mithrandir: I'm running my chroot with `linux32 dchroot -d`
[09:34] <davyd> everything else seems to be working sanely
[09:34] <davyd> except for gdb
[09:35] <Mithrandir> it's a 32 bit chroot?
[09:35] <davyd> indeed, I installed 32-bit breezy into it
[09:35] <davyd> [davyd@floyd-chroot shading-scale] $ file /bin/ls
[09:35] <davyd> /bin/ls: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.2.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped
[09:36] <Mithrandir> try LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4.1 gdb /bin/ls (inside the chroot)
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[09:36] <daniels> infinity: now?
[09:36] <davyd> Mithrandir: neat
[09:37] <davyd> that worked
[09:37] <Mithrandir> davyd: it worked?
[09:37] <davyd> hang on, I'll try something more involving
[09:37] <infinity> daniels : The sooner, the better.  What do you have for me?  glu shlibs changed back to libglu1, provides changed to libglu1, libclu1c2, and fixed xbase-clients?
[09:37] <Mithrandir> davyd: ok, then you've either tickled a bug in the 32 bit emulation in the kernel or a bug in glibc.  Congratulations. :-)
[09:37] <daniels> infinity: glu shlibs changed back to libglu1, provides changed to libglu1, libglu1c2
[09:38] <daniels> infinity: xbase-clients love is progressively slamming into NEW
[09:38] <infinity> daniels : Rock.
[09:38] <daniels> infinity: and I don't have anything better to do with my life tonight, so hopefully I'll get it done
[09:38] <Mithrandir> davyd: to be honest, I don't care _too_ much about the 32 bit support on amd64, but it should be fixed, I agree
[09:38] <infinity> Life is overrated.
[09:38] <daniels> inf	uliits aren't
[09:38] <davyd> Mithrandir: well, at least it works now
[09:39] <davyd> I can get some work done ;)
[09:39] <infinity> davyd : What happens if you chroot into your 32-bit chroot without invoking linux32 first?
[09:39] <Mithrandir> davyd: it looks like a kernel bug.
[09:40] <infinity> davyd : It could just be a personality bug.
[09:40] <daniels> infinity: -43 uploaded
[09:40] <davyd> infinity: same issue
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[09:41] <davyd> Mithrandir: will you put that upstream for me? you seem to have some better idea of what's going wrong here
[09:41] <Mithrandir> infinity: I can reproduce it on a completely different system with kernel.org 2.6.10 and debian's userland
[09:42] <infinity> Mithrandir : Joy.
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[09:43] <Mithrandir> infinity: which is why I jumped to the conclusion "kernel bug".
[09:43] <Mithrandir> davyd: I can see what I can do.
[09:43] <davyd> Mithrandir: cheers, dude
[09:43] <davyd> you've saved me having to reinstall 32-bit on my machine
[09:44] <Amaranth> http://moon.google.com
[09:44] <Amaranth> zoom in all the way on that :D
[09:45] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:46] <Mithrandir> davyd: it seems related to the NPTL (a new thread library which was added support for in 2.6) support, which is why using the LD_ASSUME_KERNEL trick fixes it.
[09:46] <Mithrandir> or "fixes"
[09:47] <jsgotangco> Amaranth, oohh it even had landing spots
[09:47] <carlospc> there is anybody who knows what happens with the udebs in arch?
[09:47] <carlospc> they go to universe/debian-installer or directly to main/debian-installer?
[09:48] <jsgotangco> Amaranth, bwahahaha
[09:51] <j^> this is cool http://liihs.irit.fr/dragice/foldndrop/
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[10:08] <infinity> Kamion : ping.
[10:09] <infinity> Kamion : How much do I have to slip you under the table to do some NEW processing? (specifically gcc-4.0 binaries, and anything daniels will/has upload(ed) today)
[10:09] <Mithrandir> infinity: two cases of beer
[10:09] <infinity> SOLD!
[10:10] <daniels> Kamion: please don't NEW anything I've uploaded until xorg 6.8.2-43 is safely in the archive
[10:10] <daniels> otherwise its binaries will get rejected
[10:10] <infinity> daniels : Some of your NEW stuff replaces stuff built by -43?
[10:10] <daniels> and ... I think people want xlibs fixed
[10:10] <daniels> infinity: yeah
[10:11] <infinity> daniels : <stare>
[10:11] <daniels> infinity: annoying, but the fastest way to actually end up with a fixed x{libs,base-clients}
[10:11] <daniels> infinity: need to kick more libraries out in order to build more apps in order to make xbase-clients actually contain stuff
[10:11] <infinity> daniels : Sure, but why have the xorg source building stuff that you're also building in new sources?
[10:12] <Mithrandir> infinity: because he likes smoking crack.
[10:12] <daniels> infinity: because it takes time to split it out
[10:12] <Mithrandir> infinity: and rene is going to go mad about it, I guess.
[10:12] <daniels> and I'd rather not wander further behind :P
[10:12] <infinity> daniels : Doesn't take much time to remove stuff from debian/control. :)
[10:12] <daniels> infinity: eww.
[10:13] <infinity> Mithrandir : Yes, things go insane when you try to upload a package that produces binaries with older versions than what's already in the archive.  We had this problem last week. :)
[10:14] <Mithrandir> infinity: I'm one of the amd64 ftp-masters in debian, I know. :-)
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[10:15] <Mithrandir> sladen: where is your thinkpad accelerometer love?
[10:16] <sladen> Mithrandir: http://www.paul.sladen.org/thinkpad-r31/aps/
[10:17] <sladen> Mithrandir: mjg59 sent me a pathc to do mlocking and daf some stuff to fix up a glut difference between libraries versions
[10:18] <Mithrandir> sladen: it only requires userspace support?
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[10:18] <sladen> Mithrandir: and I need to add caliation (robot101's laptop happened to sit around zero anyway)
[10:18] <sladen> Mithrandir: kernel space good, user space better
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[10:18] <Mithrandir> sounds good.  Planning on ITP-ing it?
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[10:20] <sladen> Mithrandir: could do.  Oh, the stuff to park the heads needs some kernel space as the ATA queue needs to be locked as well as just parking the heads so that other commands don't poceed to unpark it
[10:21] <Mithrandir> that sounds like something which should go in there in general, though
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[10:23] <fabbione> hey seb128 !
[10:23] <fabbione> seb128: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12822 <-
[10:24] <seb128> hi
[10:24] <pitti> hi seb128
[10:24] <fabbione> hey pitti
[10:25] <seb128> hey pitti 
[10:25] <seb128> fabbione: Debian has the same issue?
[10:25] <fabbione> seb128: yes..
[10:25] <fabbione> i could reproduce it with the new binutils
[10:25] <fabbione> it will come up as soon as you will start uploading to debian
[10:26] <seb128> so the new uploads on Debian are silently fucked too?
[10:26] <Kamion> infinity: well, I can do, but elmo should be around soon ...
[10:26] <fabbione> there is no silently fuckage..
[10:26] <seb128> how great
[10:26] <fabbione> seb128: it has always been working that way on sparc
[10:26] <fabbione> seb128: it's --as-needed that is fucked in binutils on sparc.. a corner case i would say
[10:26] <seb128> fabbione: it builds fine but it's broken and you have no idea of what package are b0rked then, no?
[10:27] <fabbione> seb128: the libs on sparc always had that extra info `_PROCEDURE_LINKAGE_TABLE_'
[10:27] <fabbione> seb128: except that with the old binutils it was linking corrently
[10:27] <fabbione> with the new ones it fails with that error
[10:27] <Kamion> daniels: (similarly, if you want stuff not NEWed until xorg's in, best tell elmo)
[10:27] <fabbione> it's a regression
[10:27] <fabbione> the libs are all ok
[10:27] <infinity> Kamion : Well, the X stuff needs to be done in a specific order anyway, so we can wait for elmo, but gcc-4.0 would be nice, so it's no longer blocking doko doing another upload (the current one needed some bootstrapping love, and I'd like to get over that hump)
[10:28] <daniels> elmo: please don't NEW anything of mine until xorg 6.8.2-43 hits, tkhx
[10:28] <daniels> er, 'kthx'
[10:28] <Kamion> infinity: ok, one sec
[10:28] <seb128> fabbione: hum. Fixing binutils will fix the issue for everything or we will have to rebuild the packages which have not built correctly?
[10:29] <Amaranth> daniels: waiting to finish everything once and for all before doing a -43?
[10:29] <fabbione> seb128: it will fix for everything. no need to rebuild. just kick back the FTBFS
[10:29] <seb128> k
[10:29] <Kamion> ---- copyright of lib32gfortran0_4.0.1-2ubuntu2_amd64.deb ----
[10:29] <Kamion> WARNING: No copyright found, please check package manually.
[10:29] <fabbione> seb128: basically there is no lib breakage.
[10:29] <doko> Kamion: gcc-4.0 should beNEW'd (32/64 bit objc/gfortran runtime libs)
[10:29] <Kamion> doko: ^-- yo, fix that dude
[10:29] <doko> ouch
[10:29] <seb128> fabbione: so we "just" have to fix binutils :p
[10:29] <fabbione> seb128: exactly :)
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[10:30] <Kamion> oh, hmm, its doc dir is a symlink to gcc-4.0-base
[10:30] <fabbione> doko: can you fix that in the next upload?
[10:30] <Kamion> doko: never mind, I think fernanda/whatever is just confused
[10:30] <daniels>  * Copyright 1993 by Sun Microsystems, Inc. Mountain View, CA.
[10:30] <daniels>  *
[10:30] <daniels>  * SUN DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES WITH REGARD TO  THIS  SOFTWARE,
[10:30] <daniels> [...] 
[10:31] <daniels>  * Author:  Chris D. Peterson, MIT X Consortium
[10:31] <daniels> THANKYOU, SUN
[10:31] <daniels> it's ok
[10:31] <daniels> we didn't want to distribute it anyway
[10:31] <doko> Kamion: ehh, there's nothing to fix. /usr/share/doc/lib32gfortran0 -> gcc-4.0-base
[10:31] <Kamion> doko: yeah, as I just said ...
[10:31] <daniels> Amaranth: nope, but -43 builds some stuff still that has been uploaded in subsequent modular packages
[10:31] <doko> ahh, ok, was checking this in another window ... ;)
[10:31] <daniels> Amaranth: so -43 will get automatically rejected if it gets processed after the modular stuff
[10:32] <Kamion> doko: hmm, looks like installing just libgfortran0-dev will leave you with a dangling symlink in /usr/lib32/ (since it doesn't depend on lib32gfortran0) - not sure if that's the right thing to do
[10:32] <Kamion> then again I don't really know the lib32/lib64 standards
[10:33] <Kamion> doko: rest looks fine, accepted
[10:33] <doko> Kamion: old problem. yes, maybe I should have a lib32gfortran-dev package to compete with the count of xorg's binary packages.
[10:33] <Kamion> doko: heh, yeah, I'm not sure that alternative's any better. :-)
[10:34] <daniels> hey, xorg doesn't have many binary packages
[10:35] <daniels> doing an ls in xorg-6.8.2/debian/ now fits in my screen
[10:35] <daniels> doko: did you get to look at that patch?
[10:35] <doko> Kamion: currently you have to know what to install for biarch builds. maybe gcc64-4.0 / gfortran64-4.0 dependency packages would work
[10:35] <doko> daniels: s/packages/packages anymore/ ;)
[10:35] <doko> which one?
[10:35] <doko> depends on the font size and the resolution
[10:36] <daniels> doko: the one to fix the optimising away of volatile accesses
[10:36] <daniels> doko: 208 files
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[10:37] <doko> yep, it's not in mainline, not even proposed as a patch. I did a test build on i386, but have to the same on our other architectures as well.
[10:37] <daniels> 'kay
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[10:40] <doko> daniels: wait, it was committed to 4.0 tonight, so the next upload should have it
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[10:43] <daniels> doko: alright, sweet deal, thanks
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[10:49] <daniels> jesus
[10:49] <daniels> I don't know why I just tried to increment 1:3.5.2-1 to 1:3.5.2-38
[10:49] <sivang> daniels: what was that Sun software you were turned off by? :-)
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[10:50] <sivang> seb128: anything new re lp integration? did you check my patch?
[10:50] <daniels> sivang: that's not a licence.  it's a copyright statement and a warranty disclaimer.  i.e., no grant of rights.
[10:50] <sivang> daniels: bah, but what does it copyright?
[10:50] <daniels> sivang: part of libXt
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[10:52] <seb128> sivang: I'll do that this morning
[10:53] <daniels> god I hate libXaw
[10:53] <TerminX> daniels: libxrender-dev seems to be missing libXrender.la
[10:53] <daniels> anything where configure runs an ed script on the local copy of libtool to fix it ...
[10:53] <Treenaks> daniels: let's just drop it then
[10:53] <daniels> TerminX: it's deliberate
[10:53] <daniels> Treenaks: good plan!!
[10:53] <TerminX> where is libXrender.la then?
[10:53] <daniels> TerminX: /dev/null
[10:53] <daniels> i can't even remember why I'm packaging libXaw
[10:53] <Treenaks> daniels: who needs it anyway, in this age of GTK
[10:53] <TerminX> er
[10:53] <daniels> some app wanted some library which wanted libXaw which wanted libXPm which wanted something else
[10:54] <sivang> seb128: sure, just wanted to know if there anything wrong with the patch so I could fix it up quicky, I know we are in a hurry with this
[10:54] <daniels> TerminX: if anything in /usr/lib still contains references to it, it needs a bug filed on it and a rebuild
[10:54] <TerminX> gnome-terminal tries to link against it.
[10:54] <daniels> TerminX: so you need to find out what's causing that (hint: grep -r libXrender.la /usr/lib) and file bugs
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[10:55] <infinity> TerminX : Where is it doing so?
[10:56] <seb128_> elmo: gcalctool (incoming) sync please
[10:56] <seb128_> sivang: I'll do that this morning
[10:57] <TerminX> infinity: I dunno, I tried to build it and it has -lXrender in its Makefile
[10:57] <Amaranth> TerminX: get rid of it? :)
[10:57] <infinity> Nothing inherently wrong with -lXrender.
[10:57] <TerminX> /usr/lib/libXft.la:dependency_libs=' -lfontconfig /usr/lib/libfreetype.la -lz -L/usr/X11R6/lib /usr/lib/libXrender.la -lX11'
[10:57] <infinity> It's libtool that's off looking for sily .la files.
[10:57] <TerminX> and a whole bunch of KDE shit.
[10:58] <infinity> TerminX : Which architecture?
[10:58] <TerminX> i386
[10:58] <fabbione> ah finally.. scsi-modules status starts to look much better :)
[10:58] <infinity> TerminX : Are you up to date?
[10:58] <TerminX> not on libxft2, actually
[10:58] <sivang> seb128_: sure, let me know if you need any fix on the first gedit patch
[10:58] <TerminX> I have it held because the new version fucks up my fonts on /.
[10:58] <TerminX> ;p
[10:58] <infinity> TerminX : I think I may have uploaded a fixed libxft very recently. :)
[10:58] <daniels> i also hate autoconf
[10:59] <Treenaks> daniels: do you know of a better alternative?
[10:59] <sivang> does anybody know if I can use plain patch to apply a debdiff ?
[10:59] <sivang> (that is, the plain patch program)
[10:59] <seb128_> sivang: k, thanks
[10:59] <Treenaks> sivang: of course
[10:59] <daniels> and Xaw
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[10:59] <daniels> Treenaks: that's the tragedy -- no
[10:59] <TerminX> infinity: fixed in what way?  I just don't like how 2.1.7 renders fonts opposed to 2.1.2 I think
[11:00] <infinity> TerminX : I didn't touch rendering stuff, I mean I fixed the build issue.
[11:00] <sivang> Treenaks: thx
[11:00] <daniels> TerminX: in that case, you lose
[11:00] <Treenaks> daniels: "drcar" (Daniel's Really Cool Autoconf Replacement)
[11:00] <TerminX> blah
[11:01] <daniels> i may be stupid, as evidenced by the fact I'm maintaining X
[11:01] <daniels> but I'm not *that* stupid
[11:01] <TerminX> oh well, /. sucks anyway
=== TerminX upgrades
[11:02] <infinity> daniels : Did xorg have NEW binaries?
[11:02] <daniels> infinity: nope, it got ACCEPTED directly
[11:02] <daniels> should have landed by now
[11:02] <infinity> I said binaries, not source.
[11:02] <infinity> NEW binaries get hung up after the buildds upload.
[11:03] <infinity> So, did anything in debian/control get added? :)
[11:03] <infinity> (The builds are suspiciously hanging out in "Uploaded", despite a cron.daily run since they were uploaded...)
[11:04] <Kamion> no xorg in NEW
[11:04] <Kamion> xserver-xorg-core |   6.8.2-43 |        breezy | amd64, i386, powerpc
[11:04] <infinity> Oh.  Guess it's just taking its sweet time jenniferring everything.
[11:05] <infinity> Or, katie and wanna-build aren't on speaking terms about what "installed" means.
[11:05] <Kamion> cron.daily's still running
[11:05] <trulux> JaneW: fine too :)
[11:05] <infinity> Kamion : That'd explain it. :0
[11:05] <Kamion> unless you mean the :33 cron.daily, which is well finished
[11:05] <infinity> Kamion : Hard to say.  I /think/ they were uploaded before :33, but maybe I'm on crack.
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[11:06] <infinity> No big deal.  They'll get in sync again soon.
[11:06] <infinity> And I need ia64 anyway, before we start asking for other stuff to be NEWed.
[11:07] <Kamion> amd64 was accepted at :45, i386/powerpc at :50
[11:07] <Kamion> so all's fine
[11:07] <infinity> Ahh, kay.
[11:07] <infinity> Cool.
[11:07] <infinity> I just have poor time-keeping skillz.
[11:08] <infinity> And ia64's just fnishing up now.  Yay.
[11:08] <fabbione> infinity: i guess i should skip xorg build on sparc until -44.. right?
[11:08] <fabbione> it won't manage to build that fast
[11:08] <infinity> <shrug>
[11:09] <infinity> If you don't build any of daniels' other new uploads, xorg is fair game.
[11:09] <fabbione> infinity: what's the new stuff?
[11:09] <fabbione> (i can temporary mark it as N-F-U)
[11:09] <infinity> More stuff broken out.  I'm sure Kamion could give you a list. :)
[11:10] <infinity> I have no such list myself.
[11:11] <Kamion> umm ... looks like: imake libxt xsetmode iceauth libxmu libxkbfile xhost xdpyinfo libxpm
[11:11] <Kamion> at the moment
[11:12] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks
[11:13] <fabbione> i guess i will have to see them first...
[11:13] <infinity> daniels : You're breaking out imake?  Dear god.
[11:13] <fabbione> otherwise w-b will complain about packagename/version
[11:13] <infinity> fabbione : No, take name_1, then -n name_1
[11:13] <fabbione> infinity: that's the easiest one to do :)
[11:13] <daniels> Kamion: sounds about right
[11:14] <infinity> fabbione : Then later, just --forget them all, and they'll come back with the right versions in the next cron.daily.
[11:14] <fabbione> infinity: right :)
[11:15] <fabbione> done
[11:15] <fabbione> thanks
[11:15] <infinity> There, and ia64 uploaded.  Yay.
[11:15] <daniels> also libxaw libxtrap libxxf86{dga,misc,vm} libdmx libfs
[11:16] <infinity> Stupid slow Itanics.
[11:16] <Kamion> hmm, need d-i byhand to fix some localechooser issues so I can test a tzsetup fix so ...
=== Kamion starts at the beginning of the chain
[11:16] <doko> daniels: which part of xorg needs the fixed gcc?
[11:16] <daniels> doko: xserver-xorg-core, xserver-xorg-driver-i810 (both still part of the xorg source package)
[11:16] <daniels> infinity: i thought ia64 was a port?
[11:16] <doko> ok, so you will wait on the next gcc?
[11:16] <fabbione> daniels: danke
[11:17] <infinity> daniels : Yes, but it's handled in the DC, so it's mine anyway.
[11:17] <infinity> daniels : If I can avoid screwing it over by waiting 20 minutes before doing something, I will.  If I have to wait a day, screw it.
[11:18] <doko> daniels: when is imake uploaded/available?
[11:18] <infinity> doko : When Kamion/elmo pushes it through queue/NEW.
[11:18] <infinity> doko : Which can happen any time after the next cron.daily.
[11:19] <infinity> (Well, I guess imake could go now, since it's completely new, but may as well wait for the other pseudo-new stuff to be ready)
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[11:23] <fabbione> Kamion: a udeb growing from 1.2M to 1.4M is acceptable?
[11:23] <Kamion> fabbione: should be ... which one?
[11:24] <fabbione> Kamion: scsi-modules on i386
[11:24] <fabbione> sparc is from 300K to 900K. but it's unsupported so you don't care :)
[11:24] <fabbione> the others are still unknown
[11:24] <infinity> Damn those upstream fellows writing new drivers.
[11:24] <infinity> How dare they?
[11:24] <fabbione> they fail later at net modules (cleaning it up now)
=== daniels frowns.
[11:25] <daniels> Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any
[11:25] <daniels> purpose and without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above
[11:25] <daniels> copyright notice appear in all copies and that both the copyright notice
[11:25] <daniels> and this permission notice appear in supporting documentation.
[11:25] <daniels> is that acceptable?
=== highvoltage [~Jono@196.36.161.235]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:25] <daniels> doko: note that I haven't done xmkmf yet; xbase-clients is far more high-impact
[11:25] <infinity> daniels : It's free.
[11:25] <Kamion> fabbione: that's fine, the only initrds it's in are cdrom and hd-media
[11:25] <daniels> doko: -44 will wait on the next DFSG, right
[11:25] <daniels> er, next gcc.  christ.
[11:25] <infinity> daniels : The documentation clause is just slightly less irritating than the advertising clause.
[11:25] <daniels> infinity: thanks
=== thom [~thom@amnesiac.heapspace.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:26] <daniels> oh my god
[11:26] <daniels> /* Copyright 1991 NCR Corporation - Dayton, Ohio, USA */
[11:26] <daniels> WOW, USEFUL
[11:26] <infinity> daniels : Unless you consider "supporting documentation" to mean "the palce where you'd put the license", then it's not even irritating, just poorly worded.
[11:26] <fabbione> Kamion: ok thanks
[11:27] <fabbione> Kamion: if the same % of growing/shrink will be achieved on ppc and amd64, i will kill scsi-common-modules and scsi-extra-modules
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[11:27] <Kamion> fabbione: argh
[11:27] <fabbione> Kamion: it's so MUCH easier with one list!
[11:27] <Kamion> fabbione: make me completely upend debian-installer/build/pkg-lists/, why don't you
[11:27] <Amaranth> daniels: it doesn't have a license?
[11:28] <fabbione> Kamion: why don't I ??
[11:29] <fabbione> for that size i could kill scsi-core-modules too.. 
[11:29] <Amaranth> daniels: is /usr/X11R6/lib/libXxf86vm.la going to exist anymore?
[11:30] <doko> daniels: just wanting to have something to build OOo2 with. I can avoid xbase-clients, disabling KDE, but imake is somewhat needed.
[11:30] <Amaranth> daniels: err, just libXxf86vm.la in any location
[11:31] <daniels> Amaranth: ... it has never existed, and never will.
[11:31] <daniels> Amaranth: nope, just a copyright statement, i.e. all rights reserved
[11:31] <Kamion> fabbione: the udeb names are hardcoded in debian-installer. If you remove udebs, I have to mess with its build system
[11:31] <daniels> at least, to the parts of that file that NCR wrote, and christ only knows what that is
[11:31] <daniels> hooray for opaque development processes!
=== daniels <3 tog
[11:32] <Amaranth> heh
[11:32] <fabbione> Kamion: *SHRUGS*
[11:32] <Amaranth> daniels: ok, i was told it was needed for wxwidgets2.6 :/
[11:32] <mjg59> daniels: So, dude, i810 EXA?
[11:32] <Kamion> and PLEASE LEAVE SCSI-CORE-MODULES ALONE :-)
[11:32] <daniels> Amaranth: if wxwidgets did it, they're on crack and they were just making crap up
[11:32] <Kamion> other stuff depends on that, like cdrom-core-modules
[11:32] <daniels> mjg59: haven't had time to redo it, no
[11:33] <Kamion> and firewire-core-modules, usb-storage-modules, sata-modules
[11:33] <daniels> mjg59: every waking moment has been either work, modular server to get ready for r7rc0, or, on some rare occasions, beer
[11:33] <fabbione> Kamion: i was kidding about scsi-core :)
[11:33] <Kamion> good ;-)
[11:34] <mjg59> Haha
[11:34] <Kamion> scsi-common-modules isn't that bad
[11:34] <Kamion> at least other stuff doesn't depend on it ...
=== kamstrup [~kamstrup@0x3e42da90.adsl.cybercity.dk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:34] <fabbione> Kamion: i might have to keep scsi-common-modules, but scsi-extra will go away 99,9%
[11:35] <Kamion> ok
[11:35] <fabbione> i can only complete the check once i can build udebs everywhere
[11:35] <Kamion> I can cope with that
[11:35] <fabbione> but at least we:
[11:35] <fabbione> a) get less udebs around
[11:35] <fabbione> b) i gain more sanity points keeping stuff alligned
[11:35] <Kamion> fair enough
[11:36] <fabbione> c) i will not get disqualified trying to kill the d-i allmighty
[11:36] <fabbione> d) the size is approx the same
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[11:37] <daniels> REALLY HATE XAW
[11:38] <Kamion> fabbione: that said, it probably kills any possibility of floppy builds ever
[11:38] <Kamion> fabbione: the point of scsi-extra-modules is that it doesn't go on the cd-drivers floppy
[11:38] <Kamion> but is available for cdrom etc.
[11:39] <fabbione> Kamion: we can reevaluate the floppy thing later on.. right now i need to get this thing a bit more clean..
[11:39] <Kamion> mm, right
[11:39] <fabbione> Kamion: if your floppy plan is for breezy+1 we can certainly improve the situation  A LOT
[11:40] <fabbione> starting from a root problem of unalligned kernel configs
[11:40] <fabbione> -> ~ same drivers all over
[11:40] <fabbione> -> ~ same udebs set
[11:40] <fabbione> at that point splitting for size becomes easier
[11:40] <Kamion> floppy for 2.6 probably requires initramfs, which I doubt I'll have time to do before breezy
[11:40] <fabbione> brb
[11:41] <Kamion> so breezy+1 sounds reasonable
[11:41] <fabbione> Kamion: that too..
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[11:42] <infinity> daniels : How long until -44?
[11:43] <Amaranth> we don't even have -43 yet, do we?
[11:43] <Amaranth> i mean, it's been uploaded
[11:43] <infinity> daniels : If it's more than a day or two, feel free to remove any reference to libglu1c2 in your debian/control, I'll get everything rebuilt ASAP. :)
[11:43] <infinity> Amaranth : It's in the archive.
=== darkling [~hugo@joshua.ecs.soton.ac.uk]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[11:45] <daniels> xaw is made of stupid
[11:45] <daniels> infinity: yeah
[11:45] <daniels> infinity: did we come to a consensus on whether or not we could kill it?
[11:45] <infinity> daniels : Or, don't worry about tweaking it at all, if you're just going to remove it completely and move mesa to main.
[11:46] <daniels> infinity: (kill libglu1-xorg* altogether)
[11:46] <daniels> infinity: is it feasible?
[11:46] <daniels> i mean, did we end up agreeing sbuild would die, or what?
[11:46] <daniels> i can't remember
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[11:47] <infinity> daniels : Oh, right.  THe sbuild case.  Well, if libglu1-xorg is COMPELTELY gone, we might be okay.  I'd have to either look at the code and refresh my memory, or do a test run, to be sure.
[11:47] <daniels> infinity: 'kay
[11:47] <daniels> infinity: your wish is my command
[11:47] <infinity> daniels : Does anyone have versioned build-deps on libglu1-xorg-dev?
[11:48] <infinity> daniels : If not, we can just cheat and make mesa-dev provide xorg-dev
[11:48] <Kamion> gah, the apt-cdrom breakage is reproducible once per install only
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[11:49] <daniels> infinity: i don't see why they would have
[11:50] <infinity> Don't see any.
[11:51] <infinity> For that matter, I see almost no build-deps on libglu1-xorg-dev anyway.
[11:51] <infinity> And I guess that makes sense, since you just recently renamed it, didn't you?
[11:51] <infinity> So, what the heck.  Drop it on the floor, before more poeple decide to put it in their build-deps.
[11:52] <siretart> debian is using libglu1-xorg-dev as build dependency, I think
[11:52] <daniels> infinity: four of them, in universe.  it's fixable.
[11:52] <infinity> daniels : Yeah, exactly.  No big deal.
[11:52] <infinity> siretart : THat's a case that only concerns us for sync and merges, which are all by-hand right now anyway.
[11:52] <Lathiat> bleh, your breaking all the gl build-deps again?
[11:53] <infinity> siretart : And by breezy+1, maybe we'll be pushing modular X into Debian..
[11:53] <infinity> Lathiat : No, very few, and I'll fix them myself.  Shh.
[11:53] <infinity> daniels : I'm with you on the "multiple libglu packages must go" front.  Convince Kamion to promote mesa to main, and I'll do the package fixes from there.
[11:53] <daniels> Kamion: what do I need to do to get mesa into main?
[11:54] <daniels> infinity: GET OUT OF MY HEAD
[11:54] <siretart> infinity: you are the gurus, I trust you are deciding what's best for us
[11:55] <infinity> Kamion : Note that we already support mesa in main anyway, built from a copy of mesa kept in the Xorg source package, so that probably shortcircuits about 99% of the main inclusion policy.
[11:55] <daniels> yeah.  the only difference between Mesa in xorg and its own source package is DRI support, which has been fixed upstream.
[11:56] <daniels> unfortunately the monolithic build process is very, very attached to an internal copy of GL if we want to have DRI support, so that'll have to go last.
[11:56] <daniels> *cough*mesawillneedtoprovideacopyofitssourcetreeforxorgtoabuseanywaywhenwegomodular*cough*
=== daniels waves his hands and steers the conversation somewhere else.
[11:57] <daniels> hopefully my previous statement vanishes into scrollback and no-one notices my gross hacks when it comes time to build the server out-of-tree
[11:59] <infinity> daniels : You need the mesa source to build against?.. Can't we just get it to export everything you need and love?
[12:00] <infinity> daniels : Do you statically compile some small chnks of mesa into the server?
[12:00] <daniels> infinity: no
[12:01] <daniels> infinity: the GLcore module is the Mesa software render, retargeted at the server by some horrendously gross hacks
[12:01] <daniels> infinity: it needs deep knowledge of the server and Mesa alike
[12:01] <daniels> it needs *significant* code work to be split up for 7.1; we just can't do it in the 7.0 timeframe, regrettably
[12:01] <infinity> daniels : Well, that's a whole lot of ick, isn't it?
[12:01] <daniels> infinity: you're telling me
[12:02] <Kamion> daniels: is it urgent (i.e. before mdz gets back)?
[12:03] <daniels> holy SHIT xpaint is slow
[12:03] <infinity> Kamion : No, it can wait a few days.
[12:03] <infinity> root@lucifer:~ # grep-dctrl -sPackage -FDepends libglu1c2 /var/lib/apt/lists/*Packages | wc -l
[12:03] <infinity> 42
[12:03] <infinity> Well, that's not much work.
[12:04] <daniels> hint: if you're lagging behind five second on a beefy athlon64, you have already lost
[12:04] <daniels> stupid bloated xaw apps
[12:06] <infinity> Kamion : NEWing all of daniels's other uploads (since xorg is installed everywhere now) would be more urgent, though.  Means I can fix a hojillion FTBFSs, and xbase-clients might actually work again.
[12:07] <fabbione> infinity: like ghc6?
[12:08] <daniels> infinity: hold your horses, eh
[12:08] <infinity> daniels : My horses are impatient, yo!
[12:09] <infinity> daniels : They're got the attention span of a herd of gnats.
[12:09] <daniels> they'll end up as glue regardless of what happens, so tell them to chill
[12:09] <infinity> They've, too.
[12:09] <tseng> daniels: there's always room for jello
[12:10] <daniels> tseng: you're not allowed to talk about jelly unless you're bringing me a cup of absinthe jelly
[12:10] <Kamion> infinity: my parents have just shown up, so I'll be out for a bit, but I'll do them when I get back
[12:10] <infinity> Kamion : Alright, cool.  I can work later tonight, so that works for me.
=== fabbione -> food
[12:10] <Nafallo> Kamion: say hello from me :-)
[12:12] <Amaranth> gamin is supposed to be using inotify now, right?
[12:12] <tseng> yes
=== mdke nods
[12:12] <Amaranth> "Inotify device not opened"
[12:12] <Amaranth> :/
[12:12] <Amaranth> this is from the log i get when sending SIGUSR2 to gam_server
[12:12] <Treenaks> Amaranth: ls -l /dev/inotify
[12:13] <Amaranth> crw-rw-rw-  1 root root 10, 63 2005-07-20 02:03 /dev/inotify
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[12:14] <Amaranth> could it be because muine is using it?
[12:14] <tseng> no
[12:14] <tseng> its not locking
[12:14] <Amaranth> lsof says mono is the only thing using it
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[12:15] <pitti> Hi shackan 
[12:15] <Amaranth> looking at this debug log it looks like libgnome-menu or whatever sets up gamin to watch for menu changes isn't working either
[12:16] <Amaranth> i've got something watching ~/.config/ but i think it's supposed to be watching ~/.config/menus/
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[12:17] <Amaranth> something is watching ~/.local too, should be ~/.local/desktop-directories/ and ~/.local/applications/
[12:17] <Amaranth> *groan*, i'm going to have to dive into C code
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[12:24] <daniels> infinity: you don't happen to have to hand a list of everything stalled on xbase-clients, do you?
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[12:24] <Saba_Z> fa
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[12:25] <Amaranth> Reze_M: Didn't like Saba_Z?
[12:26] <doko> elmo: please sync gmp from unstable
[12:33] <doko> elmo: then promoting libgmpxx3 to main
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[12:54] <Amaranth> syscall(INOTIFY_INIT) is failing, somehow
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[12:57] <fabbione> Amaranth: what apps is failing?
[12:58] <Amaranth> fabbione: anything that uses gamin
[12:58] <fabbione> no.. gamin is failing..
[12:58] <Amaranth> well, yeah
[12:58] <Amaranth> Could not open /dev/inotify <--because syscall(INOTIFY_INIT); returns -1
[12:59] <fabbione> well is /dev/inotify there?
[12:59] <Amaranth> yeah
[12:59] <fabbione> what version of the kernel and what version of gamin?
[12:59] <Amaranth> crw-rw-rw-  1 root root 10, 63 2005-07-20 02:03 /dev/inotify
[12:59] <Amaranth> latest kernel and gamin in breezy, let me check the versions
[01:00] <Amaranth> kernel: 2.6.12.3 gamin: 0.1.2-1ubuntu1
[01:03] <fabbione>         * server/gam_inotify.c server/local_inotify.h: the inotify API
[01:03] <fabbione>           changed from file based to syscall, patch from John McCutchan
[01:03] <fabbione> you need to wait for the next kernel
[01:04] <fabbione> i have these changes already merged
=== Kamion plies his parents with an Ubuntu CD
[01:05] <Kamion> worth a go
[01:05] <Nafallo> Kamion: I told mine they wouldn't get free support if they didn't switched from XP anymore. didn't work ;-).
[01:06] <Nafallo> that "anymore" should be inserted after "support" instead ;-)
[01:07] <Amaranth> err
[01:07] <Amaranth> i'm looking at that patch
[01:07] <Amaranth> oh, you mean gamin already has that patch
=== Amaranth will back it out for now
[01:08] <sivang> Treenaks: so, how do I apply a debdiff to a source package? (I tried using plain poatch, but it asks all sorts of irritating questions)
[01:09] <sivang> s/poatch/patch/
[01:09] <Treenaks> sivang: cd package-version; zcat ../package.diff.gz | patch -p1
[01:10] <daniels> Kamion: thanks for NEWing me up
[01:10] <sivang> Treenaks: thanks, I will try that now
[01:10] <ogra_> W: gnome-humility-icon-theme: extra-license-file usr/share/icons/Humility/scalable/mimetypes/gnome-mime-text-x-copying.svg
[01:10] <ogra_> i hate it if lintian is this silly :-/
[01:11] <Kamion> no worries
[01:11] <Kamion> that's why we don't implicitly trust lintian output
[01:11] <Kamion> it's meant to be run through a sensible human filter
[01:12] <Kamion>    * blah blah xpmutils Replaces: xbase-clients (<< 6.8.2-38) blah blah
[01:12] <Kamion> that's a changelog entry? :P
[01:12] <ogra_> lol
=== ogra_ ponders... "to override or not to override..."
[01:13] <Kamion> +Maintainer: Daniel Stone <daniel.stone@ubuntu.com> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), libx11-dev (>= 1:6.2.1+cvs.20050615-1), x11proto-core-dev, pkg-config Standards-Version: 3.6.1.0
[01:13] <ogra_> do i want a clean package ... hmm
[01:13] <Kamion> daniels: fix that, kthxbye. ;-) (libxpm)
[01:14] <Amaranth> all gnome things are using about 15% CPU now that gam_server has died :)
[01:16] <doko> seb128: I'm told that cairo 0.5.2 requires glitz 0.4.4, but ubuntu only has 0.4.0
[01:16] <daniels> Kamion: yearg, thanks
[01:16] <daniels> Kamion: -3 and -sa?
[01:16] <seb128> doko: yeah, we don't build it with glitz atm because of that, that's a build option
[01:17] <seb128> doko: is glitz useful?
[01:17] <doko> ah, ok, thanks
[01:17] <doko> seb128: I don't know, nor do I care ;)
[01:17] <seb128> k
[01:17] <seb128> so why do we ask? We already have 0.5.2 built :)
[01:18] <seb128> and they didn't break the API between 0.5.1 and 0.5.2
[01:18] <doko> just debian sync, but maybe 0.6.0 will be out soon
[01:18] <seb128> there is some new functions but no removal
[01:18] <doko> seb128: could you tell that dajobe?
[01:18] <seb128> doko: 0.6.0 this week
[01:18] <seb128> k
[01:18] <seb128> and we don't sync on Debian
[01:18] <Kamion> daniels: no -sa, -1's still in queue/new
[01:18] <seb128> we don't want to mess the soname as they did
[01:18] <Kamion> daniels: at least I think no -sa
[01:18] <daniels> 'kay
[01:19] <daniels> uploading now with no -sa
[01:20] <seb128> do we build with -Wl,-O1 by default?
[01:20] <Kamion> I only looked at -2 first by accident actually
[01:21] <daniels> heh
[01:21] <sivang> bah, xlibs seems troubled
[01:21] <daniels> xlibs is fine
[01:22] <sivang> Setting up xlibs (6.8.2-42) ...
[01:22] <sivang> rmdir: `/etc/X11/xkb/geometry': Directory not empty
[01:22] <sivang> dpkg: error processing xlibs (--configure):
[01:22] <sivang>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
[01:22] <sivang> eh right, I can remove this dir by hand
[01:22] <\sh> daniels: u made it actually...u r my hero
[01:23] <daniels> sivang: WAIT
[01:23] <daniels> sivang: can you please give me a listing of stuff in there before you do?
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[01:24] <seb128> fabbione: do you build with -Wl,-O1 on sparc?
[01:25] <sivang> daniels: hrm, I can give you file list of other dirs there that still cause this error O:-)
[01:25] <sivang> daniels: basically I see it does that for stuff under xkb/ 
[01:25] <fabbione> seb128: i build like everybody else...
[01:25] <fabbione> seb128: no overrides...
[01:26] <seb128> fabbione: do we build with that as standard on Ubuntu?
[01:26] <sivang> daniels:  is complains about xkb/rules/ now, want a file list?
[01:26] <seb128> fabbione: I flood you by query with #debian-glibc discussion
[01:26] <daniels> sivang: find /etc/X11/xkb -type f would be very useful, yes
[01:27] <daniels> sivang: have you customised it at all?  which version are you trying to upgrade from?
[01:27] <mdke> there is a bug on this right?
[01:27] <mdke> #12743?
[01:27] <sivang> daniels: sec
[01:27] <daniels> mdke: lots of them
[01:27] <fabbione> seb128: i don't believe it's a -O problem
[01:27] <seb128> yeah
[01:28] <fabbione> seb128: specially because i can reproduce it in sid
[01:28] <seb128> <vorlon> ok, I can reproduce the problem using fabbione's test case, on an alpha running sid with the current binutils and gcc-4.0.
[01:28] <mdke> daniels, ok, i added my problem to 12743. the install it totally default, I haven't changed any links or removed anything by hand
[01:28] <seb128> <vorlon> and it's invariant wrt the use of -Wl,-O1
[01:28] <mdke> it/is
[01:28] <fabbione> seb128: exactly :)
[01:28] <seb128> fabbione: maybe /j #debian-glibc if you are interested to the issue
[01:28] <mdke> daniels, lemme know if you want any more info posted on that bug
[01:29] <daniels> mdke: will do, thanks
[01:29] <sivang> daniels: 6.8.2-42
[01:29] <sivang> daniels: havn't customized it
[01:29] <sivang> daniels: file list:
[01:29] <daniels> sivang: you're upgrading from 6.8.2-42 to 6.8.2-42?
[01:29] <daniels> that code path won't even *run* in that case :P
[01:29] <sivang> daniels: no, to 6.8.2.-43
[01:29] <daniels> ok
[01:29] <daniels> try this
[01:30] <daniels> sudo dpkg --purge --force-depends xkeyboard-config xlibs
[01:30] <daniels> sudo apt-get install xlibs xkeyboard-config
[01:30] <sivang> daniels: working...
[01:31] <sivang> Unpacking xlibs (from .../xlibs_6.8.2-43_all.deb) ...
[01:31] <sivang> rmdir: `/etc/X11/xkb/geometry/digital_vndr': Directory not empty
[01:31] <sivang> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/xlibs_6.8.2-43_all.deb (--unpack):
[01:31] <daniels> mdke: ok, looks like you just need -43
[01:31] <sivang>  subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1
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[01:31] <sivang> Errors were encountered while processing:
[01:31] <sivang>  /var/cache/apt/archives/xlibs_6.8.2-43_all.deb
[01:31] <sivang> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[01:31] <daniels> sivang: ok, that gives me an idea, thanks
[01:31] <mdke> daniels, i will test and report on that bug
[01:32] <sivang> daniels: would you midn explaining the problem ?
[01:32] <daniels> sivang: that codepath shouldn't even be being run
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[01:33] <daniels> sivang: since $2 should be empty, so dpkg --compare-versions should bomb
[01:33] <daniels> actually, no, dpkg sucks
[01:33] <daniels> daniels@brainfreeze:~/canonical/xorg/app/xsetmode/xsetmode-1.0% dpkg --compare-versions "" lt "6.8.2-43" && echo yeah, definitely a bug
[01:33] <daniels> yeah, definitely a bug
[01:33] <sivang> daniels: so I thought so :-)
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[01:35] <sivang> mdke: are you going to open that bug?
[01:35] <mdke> sivang, i have one open already on my problem
[01:36] <mdke> reported by someone else
[01:36] <Amaranth> yeah, -42 had the same problem
=== Amaranth hacked his away around it and reinstalled xkeyboard-config
[01:36] <sivang> mdke: cool
=== mdke refuses to hack around things
[01:37] <sivang> Amaranth: what did you do to make it work?
[01:37] <daniels> ok, think I found the problem(s)
[01:37] <sivang> daniels: oh, goody
[01:37] <Amaranth> sivang: removed whatever it couldn't
[01:37] <daniels>   * Protect against $2 being empty in xlibs.preinst.in, which would cause it
[01:37] <Amaranth> sivang: it was a very involved process
[01:37] <daniels>     to bomb when we were installing from scratch.  Don't make failures to
[01:37] <daniels>     remove directories hard failures.
[01:38] <sivang> daniels: but wouldn't I be left with those dirs when I should really be removing them?
[01:39] <Amaranth> no, i'm pretty sure the stuff in those dirs is owned by xkeyboard-config now
[01:39] <daniels> YEEEARGH
[01:40] <sivang> Amaranth: yep, just did a check, seems very much so
[01:41] <\sh> daniels: i just started dist-upgrade...
[01:42] <\sh> *shiver*
[01:42] <mdke> the reason I'm against removing things by hand and linking and stuff is that if everyone does that, the problem doesn't get fixed, then problems occur when people wanna dist-upgrade
[01:42] <Amaranth> \sh: we still don't have xbase-clients, you're nuts
[01:42] <sivang> \sh: you are supposed to have the same thing, I also just did dist-upgrade
[01:42] <daniels> Amaranth: ideally, xbase-clients wouldn't install at all
[01:42] <mdke> it keeps back xbase-clients
[01:42] <daniels> Amaranth: so you're stuck back at an older version
[01:43] <daniels> Amaranth: this is one of the reasons why I haven't uploaded xdpyinfo
[01:43] <daniels> mdke: fortunate thing
[01:43] <mdke> :)
[01:43] <Amaranth> daniels: it doesn't but i don't think -10 is new enough
[01:43] <mdke> the computer is smarter than it looks
[01:43] <\sh> Amaranth: -36 here
[01:43] <Amaranth> \sh: oh, you're already on breezy
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[01:43] <\sh> Amaranth: yesterday I was...yesterday afternoon on hoary...
[01:43] <\sh> now back to breezy
[01:43] <\sh> \sh 0 xorg 5
[01:44] <Amaranth> Amaranth 20 xorg 0
[01:44] <daniels> Amaranth: -10 is better than -x, x >= 38
[01:44] <Amaranth> >= 38 won't install at all :)
[01:45] <\sh> but I'm bullheaded
[01:45] <daniels> Amaranth: this is partially intentional
[01:45] <daniels> Amaranth: the plan was to not build it at all for a while, so -36 was the newest version in the archive until we could finish everything
[01:45] <daniels> Amaranth: but I buggered that up good and proper, so now I have to finish all the modularisation stuff (libs then programs).  oh well.
[01:47] <Kamion> daniels: you know about lt-nl, right?
[01:48] <Kamion> daniels: should use that rather than checking manually whether $2 is empty
[01:48] <Kamion> daniels: err ... you have uploaded xdpyinfo, I just newed it earlier
=== daniels violently introduces his head to his desk.
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[01:49] <Kamion> binaries aren't newed yet though
[01:50] <mdke> lol
[01:50] <doko> Keybuk: sent you an email for MOM
[01:50] <seb128> mdke: you are working with it translators, aren't you?
[01:51] <mdke> seb128, yes
[01:52] <seb128> mdke: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12815
[01:52] <mdke> ty
[01:52] <mdke> looking
[01:52] <seb128> mdke: can you get that fixed? The it.po has a list separated by spaces instead of '\n'
[01:53] <mdke> seb128, will have a look.
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[01:55] <seb128> mdke: thanks
[01:57] <mdke> seb128, is that something I am able to fix directly in rosetta?
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[01:58] <seb128> mdke: just change "item1 item2 item3" by "item1\nitem2\nitem3"
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[02:02] <Nafallo> Simira: ! *hug* LTNS :-)
[02:03] <Simira> good morning all
[02:03] <mdke> seb128, ok done for hoary. will that be sorted for breezy? also, should I send it upstream?
[02:03] <Simira> Nafallo : bad internet connection. I think Tollef is on the case right now.
[02:03] <Keybuk> doko: am sorting stuff out before my flight right now, will try and get your list in before I leave
[02:03] <Keybuk> will take a few hours, and just appear as ordinary MOM output
[02:05] <Nafallo> Simira: easy solution would be to add a couple of rules to his laptop firewall and route stuff wireless -> lan :-)
[02:05] <Nafallo> Simira: anyway. OT here. #norsksvenskar ? :-)
[02:05] <seb128> mdke: already fixed as said on bugzilla
[02:06] <mdke> seb128, oh sorry misunderstood that, great.
[02:06] <seb128> mdke: np, thanks for fixing it
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[02:08] <seb128> mdke: ups, not, it's not, I forward upstream
[02:08] <mdke> thanks
[02:09] <mdke> daniels, #12743 not fixed in -43
[02:10] <daniels> mdke: yeah, -44
[02:11] <doko> Keybuk: thanks
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[02:21] <daniels> Kamion: right, done with libraries now
[02:21] <jamesh> daniels: btw, the X library packages in breezy have been causing some Gnome compile problems due to their pkg-config files
[02:21] <daniels> Kamion: at least, until I get to packaging the modular server.  but that's not going to be tonight, realistically.
[02:21] <daniels> jamesh: the -D_XOPEN_SOURCE stuff?
[02:22] <jamesh> daniels: yeah
[02:22] <daniels> jamesh: yeah, we fixed that upstream a week and a half ago or something
[02:22] <daniels> jamesh: i'll merge it down as soon as I get time
[02:22] <daniels> got to make xbase-clients installable first
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[02:22] <jamesh> daniels: it looks like xproto.pc still defines _XOPEN_SOURCE
[02:22] <jamesh> daniels: is there any reason why the flag is in the .pc file at all?
[02:23] <daniels> jamesh: yes, because headers installed by xproto do very bad things to fds_bits
[02:23] <daniels> jamesh: which has different behaviour between various _SOURCE flags
[02:23] <daniels> jamesh: we fixed it so the _XOPEN_SOURCE was internalised within the header
[02:23] <daniels> jamesh: difficult problem to solve, since you couldn't guarantee that Xpoll.h would be included before <sys/select.h>, so you need to have it in cflags
[02:23] <jamesh> daniels: it still looks like it is there in CVS: http://cvs.freedesktop.org/xlibs/Xproto/xproto.pc.in?view=markup
[02:24] <jamesh> daniels: are the xproto headers included by the libX11 headers?
[02:24] <daniels> jamesh: we don't use xlibs anymore
[02:24] <Kamion> try xorg/proto/X11/
[02:25] <daniels> jamesh: /xorg/proto/X11
[02:25] <daniels> jamesh: in any case, it's a multi-setp fix
[02:25] <jamesh> ah.
[02:25] <daniels> jamesh: it also involves deliberately not exposing xproto's cflags through its users
[02:25] <daniels> i sense this has to be fixed again later, and it'll be me that fixes it
[02:25] <daniels> (it doesn't pass any cflags through -> xproto headers off in some random prefix won't work)
[02:25] <jamesh> daniels: the new pkg-config releases have the ability to list "private" dependencies which might be useful here
[02:26] <daniels> there's an interim fix now, will be totally sorted out later
[02:26] <jamesh> daniels: useful if you depend on a library but don't expose any of its interfaces through your own
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[02:27] <daniels> http://cvs.freedesktop.org/xorg/xc/include/Xos.h?r1=1.4&r2=1.5
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[02:36] <Kamion> pitti: fixed that apt-setup breakage, I think
[02:37] <pitti> Kamion: you mean the "that's not an ubuntu cd" issue?
[02:37] <pitti> cool
[02:37] <pitti> because a manual apt-cdrom add worked after a reboot
=== schlomo [~gouchi@AMontsouris-152-1-22-123.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:38] <daniels> yo pitti
[02:38] <Kamion> pitti: yes, it was reversed logic in apt-setup, I'm not actually sure how it used to work
[02:38] <Kamion> because it succeeded if and only if apt-cdrom failed
[02:39] <pitti> lol
[02:39] <schlomo> Hi
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[02:39] <pitti> well, I manually managed to install it anyway, I even managed to fix X. But I gave up when gnome freezed
[02:39] <schlomo> is it plan to add a script to ubuntu that mount automatically other OS partition  ?
[02:40] <daniels> pitti: seb is responsible for all of breezy's breakage
[02:40] <pitti> schlomo: this happens in the installer now (and in the live CD, too, I think)
[02:40] <schlomo> it would be great so that people with multi OS can access directly to their parition
[02:40] <schlomo> pitti : Ubuntu Breezy so ?
[02:40] <Kamion> it's already done in the installer dude
[02:40] <pitti> daniels: nope, ubuntu-desktop was just uninstallable due to some X breakages, but I was able to fix that (don't ask me how)
[02:41] <Kamion> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/MountingHDDFilesystems
[02:41] <Kamion> still need to poke at the live CD a bit, but it's fairly straightforward
[02:41] <daniels> pitti: yeah, seb's fault
[02:41] <\sh> brb
[02:41] <pitti> daniels: I don't actually care, I just care that it's fixed eventually :-)
[02:42] <schlomo> cool
[02:42] <schlomo> that's a great feature ;-)
=== lu|sleep is now known as lu|away
[02:45] <Amaranth> seb's fault? you mean because of libXrender.la?
[02:46] <daniels> err, yeah
[02:46] <daniels> that too
[02:48] <seb128> what I have done again ? :p
[02:48] <pitti> seb128: broke gnome, what else :-)
[02:49] <seb128> no way
[02:49] <pitti> seb128: I installed daily/amd64 yesterday, and gnome just froze
[02:49] <seb128> I blame AudioInfrastructure
[02:49] <seb128> who is in charge of that?
[02:49] <pitti> dunno, but I'd kick the guy very hard
[02:50] <Treenaks> pitti: LOL
[02:50] <seb128> pitti: I talked with upstream, the A/V sync issues we have with totem-gst are due to esdsink, BBB strongly recommend to use alsasink
=== pitti starts yet another thunderbird build and crosses fingers
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[02:52] <pitti> seb128: hm, with polypaudio being too unstable, and alsasink not being appropriate for every machine, only esd remains...
[02:52] <pitti> seb128: btw, does it work better with polypaudio?
[02:52] <pitti> seb128: after finishing the mozilla mess I might have time to fix polypaudio
=== sivang is glad he is not responsible for that
[02:52] <seb128> pitti: polypaudio sink is not maintained, don't count on using that
[02:53] <seb128> polypaudio works quite fine here, but I don't use sound stuff a lot
[02:53] <daniels> seb128: dude, VideoPlayback is causing all the problems with xlibs
[02:53] <daniels> and xbase-clients
[02:53] <daniels> seb128: fix that!
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[02:53] <pitti> seb128: no, we won't change esdsink by default, I just mean, does esdsink+polypauido work better than esdsink+esound`
[02:53] <pitti> ?
[02:53] <seb128> daniels: speaking about that, I've updated the wiki 2 days ago and pinged you here but you were away ... what have you done on the xine split for main? :)
[02:54] <seb128> pitti: both work fine for me ....
[02:54] <pitti> well, I use totem-xine, but it works fine
=== seb128 kicks pitti
[02:55] <daniels> seb128: er, last I checked most of the patent-screwed stuff already got fixed up by haggai
[02:55] <seb128> we can't ship xine
[02:55] <pitti> well, I could actually try gst again, now that I have a super fast new box
[02:55] <pitti> seb128: hm?
[02:55] <daniels> seb128: but I think it crept back in via a sync
[02:55] <daniels> seb128: so I'll check it back out once xbase-clients is installable once more
[02:55] <seb128> k
[02:56] <seb128> pitti: xine has ffmpeg, is that good for main? I thought there is patents issues
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[02:56] <pitti> seb128: libxine1 | 1.0-1ubuntu3 |         hoary | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[02:56] <pitti> seb128: it was just kicked out of Breezy as it seems
[02:56] <shackan> hi pitti
[02:57] <Kamion> libxine1c2 | 1.0.1-1ubuntu5 |        breezy | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[02:57] <pitti> Hi shackan
[02:57] <seb128> pitti: libxine1c2
[02:57] <pitti> oops, right
[02:57] <pitti> seb128: so why we have totem-xine in universe? the real stuff is in the lib anyway...
[02:57] <seb128> pitti: because the lib is no meants to be to main
[02:58] <pitti> seb128: well, it is since warty and we support it (I even did security updates for it)
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[02:58] <seb128> pitti: it was universe for warty, and k* moved it to main silently for hoary
[02:58] <pitti> seb128: so either we throw it out completely, or we can as well ship totem-xine, which usually works much better...
[02:58] <daniels> i think we agreed that xine wasn't the best long-term option
[02:58] <seb128> pitti: when I spoke with jdub about it during .au conf he said libxine should be moved back to universe
[02:59] <daniels> and that we were best sticking with gstreamer, especially with its dll loader?
[02:59] <daniels> (every time I go to type that, my fingers make me type dl loader)
[02:59] <seb128> daniels: the spec they "evaluate the best option for 5.10", gstreamer beeing the long term option for sure
[02:59] <seb128> but gst 0.9 will not be here for GNOME 2.12
[02:59] <daniels> seb128: how about we just decide that gstreamer's the best option for breezy because it's less work for me and more for you
[02:59] <pitti> seb128: ok, /me installs t-gstreamer now
[03:00] <seb128> daniels: fine with me, it's better than the warty/hoary version and there is pitfdll now
[03:00] <daniels> haha
[03:00] <daniels> so seriously
[03:01] <daniels> it looks like it comes down to good av sync vs crappy av sync
=== Nafallo will use totem anyway ;-)
[03:01] <daniels> as well as not having to do all this work on xine shortly before we throw it away
[03:01] <Nafallo> dooh!
=== Nafallo will use totem-xine anyway ;-)
[03:01] <pitti> seb128: well, right now its a b-dep of totem, so you'd need to split the totem package (or disable xine entirely)
[03:02] <seb128> hum, right
[03:02] <seb128> daniels: what has a crappy av sync?
[03:02] <daniels> how bad are the a/v sync issues?
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[03:02] <daniels> seb128: gstreamer, according to the wiki page
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[03:02] <daniels> i mean, if I want to watch DVDs, I have a DVD player downstairs
[03:02] <seb128> daniels: yeah, turned out this is due to esd/esdsink
[03:03] <Nafallo> daniels: you has that. not everyone ;-).
[03:03] <seb128> use alsasink and you will be happy
[03:03] <daniels> and radeon DRI doesn't work on my card (because it's PCIE, so r300 doesn't support it), so my Xv looks like shit at high resolutions
[03:03] <seb128> but according to pitti can't use alsasink
[03:03] <daniels> 'cause it can't do DMA
[03:03] <daniels> seb128: oh
[03:03] <daniels> pitti: how come you can't use alsasink?
[03:03] <pitti> daniels: you can
[03:03] <pitti> daniels: if it works for you, that's the best option
[03:03] <seb128> <pitti> seb128: hm, with polypaudio being too unstable, and alsasink not being appropriate for every machine, only esd remains...
[03:03] <daniels> pitti: how's it broken for you?
[03:03] <pitti> daniels: the problem is that dmix doesn#t work for many people, so we can't set it as default
[03:03] <Treenaks> I use "autodetect".. which sink is that?
[03:04] <pitti> daniels: works perfectly for me
[03:04] <seb128> Treenaks: as the name say, it's an autodetection
[03:04] <seb128> Treenaks: and it's not recommended yet
[03:04] <Treenaks> seb128: yes, but it must have a gstreamer sink name
[03:04] <daniels> meh
[03:04] <Treenaks> seb128: (autodetectsink?)
[03:04] <sivang> seb128: last gedit update, on what account was it? (trying to build from getting source and failing)
[03:05] <seb128> sivang: "what account"? of what?
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[03:06] <sivang> seb128: gedit, last update, I am getting source and trying to build (without any patches) and getting this:
[03:06] <seb128> sivang: who wants to know who did the previous upload? probably me
[03:06] <daniels> pitti: maybe it's worth disabling dmix by default
[03:06] <seb128> Treenaks: autoaudiosink
[03:06] <sivang> seb128: egg-recent-model.c:903: error: 'F_TLOCK' undeclared (first use in this function)
[03:06] <sivang> egg-recent-model.c:903: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
[03:06] <daniels> pitti: i mean, doing alsasink by default without setting dmix up
[03:06] <daniels> pitti: because esd is arguably as bad as not having simultaneous sound
[03:07] <seb128> sivang: that's not a gedit change for sure
[03:07] <pitti> that would be even worse than in warty - we wanted to improve it
[03:07] <sivang> seb128: k, I'll do a couple of more retries
[03:07] <seb128> daniels: the issue is if you use sound events
[03:08] <daniels> seb128: oh, those
[03:08] <pitti> seb128: ok, totem-gst with gst-ffmpeg works fine for me
[03:09] <pitti> seb128: it didn't on my old box
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu Development | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DeveloperResources | If you have unexpectedly lost editbugs privileges, talk to mdz/ogra/kiko | Colony CD 2 released | yes, X is broken. | deadline for outstanding merges is 2005-07-21
[03:09] <Kamion> that's tomorrow
[03:09] <Kamion> so if you're like me and have loads left to do, best hurry up ;)
[03:10] <ogra> Kamion, universe ??
[03:10] <sivang> Kamion: that's the merge from debian you're talking about?
[03:10] <Kamion> sivang: yes
[03:10] <daniels> gar
[03:10] <Kamion> ogra: what about it?
=== ogra throws a worried look towards Kamion
=== daniels stares at Kamion.
=== Kamion throws a worried look towards http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule
[03:10] <ogra> what about universe merges ?
[03:10] <daniels> sweet, no MOM bugs
[03:10] <daniels> phew
[03:11] <Kamion> we may give universe more slack, but this is not a licence to fail to hurry up
[03:11] <Kamion> we have a release to get out
[03:11] <ogra> Kamion, i know but universe has a bunch more to merge ...
[03:12] <Kamion> so get people to hurry up :)
[03:12] <Kamion> the release schedule is not a secret
[03:12] <sivang> Kamion: Do you think launchpad integration can fall under UserIntefaceFreeze ?
[03:12] <Kamion> sivang: it certainly should
[03:12] <Kamion> it should fall under feature freeze, for that matter
[03:12] <Kamion> which is two weeks before UI freeze
[03:13] <Kamion> sivang: UI freeze is so that the doc team have time to update documentation (including screenshots, etc.) before release
[03:13] <seb128> there no real interface change
[03:13] <seb128> only 2 menu items
[03:13] <sivang> exactly
[03:13] <Kamion> that's an applicable UI change
[03:13] <sivang> cool
[03:13] <Kamion> assuming it appears in any screenshots
[03:13] <seb128> yeah
[03:13] <seb128> I doubt many screenshot will have the help menu open
[03:14] <seb128> anyway apps will be patched before the freeze so no worries
[03:14] <seb128> I've uploaded launchpad-integration this morning, it's waiting on elmo
[03:14] <daniels> maybe you could just patch in all the UI changes beforehand but make them completely non-functional
[03:14] <seb128> then we can start patching apps
[03:14] <daniels> and sneak in functionality after that
[03:14] <Kamion> seb128: no it's not, it was rejected
=== m0rphx [~morph@p83.129.173.216.tisdip.tiscali.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:14] <Kamion> Rejected: Unknown distribution `unstable'.
=== daniels giggles.
[03:15] <seb128> Kamion: grah, I use the debian dh_make changelog again?
[03:15] <seb128> grrrr
[03:15] <daniels> good to know I don't have a monopoly on REJECTed packages
[03:15] <seb128> Kamion: thanks for pointing it
[03:15] <Kamion> Maintainer: Sebastien Bacher <seb128@debian.org>
[03:15] <Kamion> (usual reason why you didn't get the notification ;))
[03:15] <seb128> Kamion: yeah, I use dh_make which use my Debian infos
[03:15] <seb128> not the first time I make the mistake
[03:15] <sivang> hehehe
[03:16] <daniels> i swear I'm going to smash the next person who reports a duplicate of 'oh my god xkb wont someone think of the children'
[03:17] <daniels> coc or not
[03:17] <sivang> lol
[03:17] <Nafallo> daniels: would be fun to report it just to see what you really would do :-)
[03:19] <daniels> don't make me come over there
=== pitti wants his keyboard back *duck*
[03:19] <sivang> seb128: what version of automake does the builldd use?
[03:19] <pitti> sivang: whatever version you depend on
[03:19] <pitti> sivang: it's not installed by default
[03:19] <Nafallo> daniels: well, you got half the world to travel. I'm will not be here this weekend ;-)
[03:20] <Nafallo> /\'m//
[03:20] <Nafallo> :-)
[03:20] <seb128> sivang: what you specify from the control file?
[03:20] <\sh> \sh 1/2 xorg 5 1/2
[03:20] <daniels> pitti: should work with latest (-43) xlibs and latest xkeyboard-config
[03:21] <sivang> seb128: I don't, I will check the gedit control file, I think that's the problem - that I use 1.7 on my machine now, and it won't build using it (it worked with 1.4)
[03:21] <Nafallo> daniels: anyway. you're free to come visit if you would like to. not just this weekend :-).
[03:21] <daniels> i'll leave a present on your doorstep instead
[03:21] <Nafallo> we! presents! :-D
=== mgalvin [~mgalvin@host-66-202-95-170.spr.choiceone.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:24] <sivang> daniels: how can I quick workaround the xlibs mess?
[03:25] <daniels> sivang: er
[03:25] <daniels> sivang: it should install and stuff
[03:25] <daniels> if not, add exit 0 to the end of the preinst
[03:26] <sivang> daniels: k
[03:26] <\sh> i have -43 running, only putting a link to /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc
[03:26] <daniels> i wonder why you need that link
[03:26] <daniels> oh
[03:26] <daniels> maybe because I'm stupid
[03:26] <daniels> yeah, woo
[03:26] <\sh> daniels: without it, it won't find fixed font => fatal error
[03:26] <daniels> yeah
[03:27] <\sh> but: in gdm/xdm keyboard is working (actually falling back to pre-keymap) and entering gnome, no keyboard anymore...
[03:27] <\sh> logging out from the session, keyboard is responding..logging in, no keyboard..will try it with kde
[03:27] <\sh> now
[03:28] <daniels> iz gtk bug
[03:28] <\sh> hmm...
[03:29] <\sh> Riddell: ping:
[03:29] <\sh> ok...lemme check out kde ,-)
[03:31] <Riddell> \sh: hmm?
[03:32] <infinity> Kamion : Can I get mesa NEWed?
[03:33] <sivang> I suppose NEW is another acronym from yet one of elmo's gf's :-) ? (like MOM, etc..)
[03:33] <sivang> pitti: gedit doesn't seem to depend on a specific version of automake
[03:34] <pitti> sivang: that's a bug then
[03:34] <daniels> sivang: nope, it just means 'new' :P
[03:34] <infinity> No, NEW is queue/new, where new binaries and/or sources get dumped.
[03:34] <daniels> sivang: a package (be it binary or source) that hasn't been seen yet
[03:35] <ogra> btw, could anybody wave the new icon package through that sits in NEW ? 
[03:35] <Mez> are there any plans for something similar to jigdo for ubuntu
[03:35] <ogra> Mez, we have jigdo files
[03:35] <daniels> Mez: it's called 'jigdo'
[03:35] <daniels> it's actually very similar
[03:35] <ogra> as in "the same" :)
[03:36] <Mez> ah i didnt know there were jigdo fiels for ubuntu
[03:36] <sivang> daniels: so why is new written as NEW ? :-)
[03:37] <sivang> Mez: I think you can choose them from cdimange.u.c
[03:37] <\sh> Riddell: kubuntu-desktop depends on openoffice-org2*
[03:37] <\sh> ?
[03:37] <daniels> sivang: all katie states are
[03:37] <daniels> sivang: NEW, ACCEPT, REJECT
[03:37] <daniels> etc
[03:37] <sivang> daniels: ah, thanks for the info about her
[03:37] <daniels> any time
[03:37] <Riddell> \sh: yep
[03:38] <Mez> Riddell, why does it depend on openoffice - I thought you'd be shipping koffice as default for kubuntu?
[03:38] <zyga> where is the appropriate place to ask about running colony cd 2 ?
[03:38] <\sh> Riddell: sry..say again?
[03:38] <Mez> zyga, it depends what you want to ask
[03:39] <Mez> Riddell \sh: yep
[03:39] <Riddell> \sh: yes, kubuntu-desktop depends on openoffice-org2*
[03:39] <ogra> Riddell, except on amd64 i hope :)
[03:39] <sivang> pitti: so a good idea would be to test with what version of automake it builds, and change it ? :-)
[03:39] <\sh> Riddell: ok..cause it's refusing from install...when u do apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[03:39] <Riddell> Mez: that's to be decided http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuOfficeSuite (but KOffice 1.4 wasn't stable enough for real use)
[03:39] <pitti> sivang: yes
[03:39] <zyga> Mez: installer hangs after copying and extracting packages
[03:39] <\sh> Riddell: forceing it by hand..works
[03:39] <zyga> Mez: box responds to ping but is otherwise, dead
[03:40] <pitti> sivang: however, since that very likely already destroyed the diff.gz, please look at configure.in/automake.am in the orig.tar.gz
[03:40] <\sh> and THIS is funny
[03:40] <\sh> starting gnome-terminal running kde..keyboard works..
[03:40] <\sh> fine :)
[03:40] <\sh> hooray
[03:41] <\sh> sh 1 1/2 xorg 5 1/2 gnome 0 ,->
=== Valandil [~chrys@dsl-084-056-106-090.arcor-ip.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:45] <seb128> grumpf
[03:45] <seb128> gaim CVS packages
[03:45] <seb128> WTF
[03:46] <daniels> seb128: given that most of xorg is from CVS atm, gaim isn't all that bad
[03:46] <mpt> seb128: Did you finish the LaunchpadIntegration app-choosing tool?
=== sebest [~chatzilla@120.245.101-84.rev.gaoland.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:46] <seb128> mpt: no, I've not started with that, the current plan is to patch for menu entries for main
[03:46] <seb128> mpt: the picker is not a priority
[03:47] <mpt> ok
[03:47] <seb128> daniels: sure, but you don't have xorg and xorg-cvs
[03:47] <seb128> grumpf
[03:47] <mpt> seb128: So did you remove the existing "Submit Bug Report" menu item from Evolution, so that it doesn't end up with two items for doing the same thing?
[03:47] <sebest> hello, is there any project to reorganize the menu, (system -> preferencies, system -> administration, applications -> system tools) ?
[03:48] <seb128> mpt: no, launchpad-integration package (which is required before starting patching apps) has been uploaded this morning, there is no application patched atm
[03:48] <seb128> sebest: hi, not really
[03:48] <\sh> seb128: *lol*
[03:48] <seb128> sebest: you can read desktop-devel-list
[03:48] <seb128> what is funny?
[03:49] <sebest> seb128, they talked about it?
[03:49] <\sh> seb128: your "grumpf" about gaim cvs
[03:49] <seb128> why people keep sending crap mails
[03:49] <seb128> yeah, sure
[03:49] <seb128> beeing flooded by CVS bugs, that's funny
[03:49] <mpt> sebest: http://live.gnome.org/PreferencesRevisited
[03:49] <sebest> because there are some annoying things in how things are organised
[03:49] <Mez> hmmles
[03:49] <Mez> jigdo = bad for Colony CDs
[03:49] <Mez> seeing as anything thats been update gets poked top the morgue and is no longer availabl
[03:49] <Nafallo> Mez: why? :-)
[03:49] <seb128> sebest: there is some discussion about it on lists, feel free to read them and contribute
=== bddebian [~bddebian@user216-178-65-218.netcarrier.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:49] <Nafallo> Mez: hehe, oki :-)
[03:49] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:49] <thom> they get bitten by having a short SOE
[03:50] <daniels> seb128: well, yeah
[03:50] <Mez> so I'm getting lots of 404's
[03:50] <sivang> seb128: let's concetrate on apps that appear straight in the desktop, and have a menu bar system
[03:50] <sivang> seb128: thought I havn't figured what shall we do regarding stuff, like gnome-system-tools which are part of the desktop ship, and do not have a menu bar at all
[03:50] <sivang> (i.e. wizard based)
[03:51] <mpt> sebest: See also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CollapsedPreferences
[03:51] <seb128> mark said we can ignore these to start
[03:51] <sivang> seb128: cool
[03:51] <sivang> seb128: makes it a lot simpler
[03:51] <sebest> seb128: would it be possible to have the "new connection" in the "system" submenu near logout instead of applications -> system tools ?
[03:51] <sebest> mpt: thanx for the links, i'm reading it
[03:51] <seb128> sebest: everything is possible, fill a bug upstream on gnome-panel/gdm to discuss it
[03:51] <seb128> or mail desktop-devel-list
[03:52] <sebest> seb128: oki
[03:52] <seb128> sebest: I think the idea was to not put here as long as there is no easy way to switch back to your user
[03:53] <Mez> so do the colony releases actually work?
[03:53] <sebest> seb128: i think that suse get it working, maybe we should have a look at how they did it
[03:54] <ogra> seb128, when do you switch your user if you make a "new connection" ?
[03:55] <seb128> sebest: there is fast-user-switch-applet, but it's not installed by default and not optimal for some situations
[03:55] <seb128> ogra: I don't get the question
[03:56] <mpt> In what bizarre localization is it called "New Connection"??
[03:56] <ogra> <seb128> sebest: I think the idea was to not put here as long as there is no easy way to switch back to your user
[03:56] <seb128> ogra: have you already used windows XP?
[03:56] <seb128> you can switch between users
[03:56] <\sh> seb128: just like the kde switch user?
[03:56] <ogra> seb128, yes, as you can with the new lock screen in xscreensaver now...
[03:56] <seb128> \sh: I don't use KDE
[03:56] <daniels> seb128: you should
[03:56] <\sh> seb128: so it is this function ... 
[03:56] <sivang> pitti: bah, that xlibs mess is preventing me from installing automake1.4 to check for the bug
=== seb128 kicks daniels 
[03:57] <ogra> seb128, but i dont get the point where you need to switch users for making a network connection with nautilus ? 
[03:57] <seb128> ogra: who spoke about a network connection? He spoke about a gdmflexiserver new login
[03:57] <seb128> it's called "new connexion" on the menu
[03:58] <seb128> connection
[03:58] <ogra> seb128, oh... damn, i need to switch to french to understand you :-P
[03:58] <seb128> what is not clear?
[03:58] <Kamion> Mez: yes
[03:58] <ogra> new connection isnt the right term for that
[03:58] <seb128> gdmflexiserver?
[03:58] <Kamion> Mez: I don't release them until they work.
[03:59] <seb128> ogra: as I understood it, he was speaking about gdmflexiserver
[03:59] <mpt> seb128: In which localization?
[03:59] <seb128> ogra: maybe I'm wrong
[03:59] <seb128> mpt: what which localization?
[03:59] <ogra> seb128, calling "new login" a "new connection" is heavly confusing
[03:59] <sebest> yes i was :)
[03:59] <lupus1010> is the new xorg version 7.0 ?
[03:59] <mpt> seb128: <mpt> In what bizarre localization is it called "New Connection"??
[03:59] <daniels> lupus1010: it will be, eventually
[03:59] <ogra> mpt++
[03:59] <seb128> mpt: why do you ask to me, I've no clue
[03:59] <sebest> in french it's "nouvelle connection"
[04:00] <lupus1010> daniels is there a list with an overview off what is new?
[04:00] <seb128> "nouvelle connexion" rather
[04:00] <mpt> seb128: Because you said 'it's called "new connexion" on the menu'
[04:00] <lupus1010> or is the only biggest thing that you are going to a modular build system?
[04:00] <daniels> lupus1010: probably on the xorg.freedesktop.org wiki somewhere
[04:00] <sebest> seb128: yes
[04:00] <seb128> mpt: I was saying again what sebest said
[04:00] <daniels> mpt: maybe he was transliterating from French and not word-perfect on what native English speakers would call it?
[04:00] <sebest> sorry to confuse everyone :s
[04:01] <seb128> or I mixed
[04:01] <mpt> Rosetta needs a search field
[04:01] <seb128> mpt: "nouvelle connexion" is french correct version
[04:01] <seb128> <sebest> seb128: would it be possible to have the "new connection"
[04:02] <seb128> and I was just quoting this one
[04:02] <sebest> anyway i thought it should go in the system menu
[04:02] <seb128> I've not english menu to get the original version
[04:02] <sebest> neither do i
[04:02] <seb128> sebest: better to keep it hidden if people click on it and don't know how to get back to their desktop
[04:03] <Keybuk> doko: uh, dude. your list is bogus :)
[04:03] <sebest> seb128, yes i see
[04:03] <mpt> Shut Down
[04:03] <Keybuk> the second field has to be main or universe, not "breezy" :)
[04:03] <mpt> Log in as Someone Else...
[04:03] <mpt> Log Out
=== dave [~dave@212.184.217.162]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:04] <sebest> there is also this "add/remove software" in application->system tools that doesn't seem to work and duplicate synaptic that is in system -> administration
=== wasabi_ [~wasabi@207.55.180.100]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:05] <dave> highvoltage, is anyone experienced with preseeding the installer and a custom boot cd ?
[04:05] <dave> *hi*
[04:05] <Mez> Kamion - and do the live CDs for the colonys swor=k?
[04:06] <doko> Keybuk: sent you an update
[04:06] <daniels> Mez: dude, there's an archive of the lists online.  this is all documented on the lists, there's no need for all the spam in the channel.
[04:06] <highvoltage> dave: sorry, i'm probably not the best person to ask.
[04:06] <dave> didnt mean you - my xchat expanded hi, to hivoltage!
[04:07] <seb128> sebest: it's bugged but will be fixed, and it's much simpler than synaptic and a cool tool
[04:07] <comadreja> what's the official position regarding slang2 ? should it be removed ? substituted by slang1 ?
[04:07] <Amaranth> i have a feeling i should look at debian-legal
[04:07] <Keybuk> doko: hmm, mom is up to date for everything in that list?
[04:07] <Keybuk> am I missing something?
=== mpt starts translating GDM from English into English
[04:09] <pitti> mpt: sounds like a lot of work
[04:09] <doko> Keybuk: it's fine, if it's up to date, I couldn't check that easily.
[04:10] <Keybuk> it still runs daily, just doesn't file bugs
[04:10] <mpt> pitti: only 707 strings
[04:11] <pitti> mpt: but en -> en???
[04:11] <seb128> pitti: a way to say that upstream sucks apparently :p
[04:11] <mpt> :-)
[04:12] <mpt> Next I'll translate Evolution into English
[04:12] <seb128> mpt: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=310453
[04:13] <mpt> that's a good start
[04:13] <seb128> yeah
[04:13] <doko> Keybuk: can you check that bug reports are filed for these packages?
[04:13] <mpt> Though renaming "superuser" to "root" is rather crab-like
[04:13] <daniels> you're bagging other people for their use of English while you're busting out gems like 'crab-like'?
[04:14] <infinity> Word.
[04:14] <Keybuk> doko: no
[04:14] <mpt> Obscure Analogies 'R Us
[04:15] <daniels> mpt: you've convinced me, you're totally the right person to rewrite all the strings :P
[04:16] <mpt> daniels: I'm just as capable of switching between en-IRC and en-GUI as I am of switching between en-US and en-UK
[04:17] <Amaranth> seb128: firefox 1.0.6 is out ;)
=== mpt [~mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:17] <sebest> mpt: i read the 2 links that you sent, there are a lot of good ideas in it.
[04:17] <sebest> They are focused on organizing the current tools, that's nice
[04:18] <sebest> But thing, like changing the hostname or adding fonts still remains complex/hidden on ubuntu/gnome
[04:18] <seb128> Amaranth: is there security fixes or what?
[04:18] <Amaranth> adding fonts?
[04:18] <Amaranth> seb128: there was an API regression in 1.0.5 that broke some extensions
[04:18] <daniels> dude
[04:18] <daniels> my mum does not want to change her hostname
[04:18] <Amaranth> seb128: and 1.0.5 isn't gettting translated upstream
[04:18] <seb128> Amaranth: k, I'll update later
[04:18] <sebest> amaranth: yes adding fonts
[04:18] <mpt> sebest: Agreed, I was surprised at how nice Fontilus was, but it's very non-obvious how to get to it
[04:18] <daniels> i don't even want to change my hostname
[04:18] <Amaranth> sebest: go to fonts:/// in nautilus?
[04:18] <sebest> amaranth: should users guess it? :)
[04:19] <seb128> sebest: who wants to change his hostname and why, oh why?
[04:19] <Amaranth> someone slap a capplet around that
[04:19] <sebest> and in spatial mode how do you go there?
[04:19] <Amaranth> OS X users seem to have no problem learning all these shortcuts :)
[04:19] <seb128> sebest: there is a button on the font capplet
[04:19] <Amaranth> and that is considered the holy grail of usability
[04:19] <sebest> seb128, i know that these action are possible but there are hidden
[04:19] <seb128> sebest: system, preferences, fonts is the capplet
[04:20] <Amaranth> ah, someone beat me to it
[04:20] <mpt> Amaranth: In OS X, Fonts/ is a real folder that you can find by starting at the root level
[04:20] <seb128> sebest: there is already a bug about putting font to the nautilus places menu, but who needs to install fonts by hand?
[04:20] <seb128> better to package them and to install the package
[04:20] <Amaranth> yeah, but we don't have the luxury of coming up with cracktastic directories and making everything use them :)
[04:20] <sebest> seb128, many people as they ask me how to do this
[04:20] <mpt> Amaranth: and whether it should be "fonts:" or "fonts:/" or "fonts://" or "fonts:///" or "fonts:////" isn't exactly obvious
=== mantass [~Mantas@193.219.181.179]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:20] <Amaranth> mpt: fonts capplet
[04:20] <sebest> people writing documents, doing gimp work and so on
[04:21] <seb128> anyway I've to run
[04:21] <seb128> bbl
[04:21] <seb128> sebest: as said there is already a bug saying it should be listed with the nautilus places
[04:21] <mpt> Amaranth: I know that now, but I'd used that "capplet" several times before someone pointed out the button hidden therein
[04:21] <sebest> mpt: i think we could also have a font dir, as user fonts should go in .fonts as far as i remember
[04:21] <seb128> fonts:/// is a collection of user and /usr fonts
[04:22] <seb128> and install fonts to ~/.fonts
[04:22] <sebest> can user drop a font in it?
[04:22] <seb128> sure
[04:22] <sebest> great
[04:22] <Amaranth> mpt: file a bug report to get someone to make it more obvious inside the capplet
[04:22] <sebest> so it's just a matter of accessing it
[04:22] <mpt> sebest: Sure, but the second most common use case for managing fonts is probably "That font sucks and I don't want any program to use it, I want to delete it", and ~/.fonts wouldn't help there
[04:22] <mpt> because it would be in (one of) the system-wide fonts folder(s) rather than the user's own one
[04:23] <Amaranth> I have _never_ seen someone want to delete a font.
[04:23] <mpt> I wanted to do that last week
[04:23] <infinity> s/delete/hide/ then.
[04:23] <mpt> so I'm biased
[04:23] <infinity> If you're none too sure how the system determines what the default "Fixed" or "Serif" is, you may just want to remove (hide) the offending default.
[04:24] <infinity> Or something like that.
[04:24] <daniels> it's just a matter of patching ~/.fonts/local.conf
=== mantass [~Mantas@193.219.181.179]  has left #ubuntu-devel [] 
[04:24] <daniels> it's a stupendously powerful system
[04:24] <daniels> it can make all your I WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE THAT dreams come true
[04:24] <Amaranth> does the gnome-vfs layer do that on delete?
[04:25] <daniels> so if some UI genius is bored and wants to come up with a UI for fontconfig configuration (even just 'hide this font from view'), go nuts
[04:25] <daniels> it's not hard
[04:25] <infinity> That would be fantastically slick.
[04:25] <Amaranth> i've had enough of coming up with UIs to do things like that :P
[04:25] <sivang> daniels: what is the real meaning of stupendous ? that's how they described deep thought s:-)
[04:25] <Amaranth> i'll stick to smeg
[04:25] <daniels> it's even XML, so it's not like you have to write a difficult parser for some obscure syntax
[04:25] <daniels> sivang: stupendous -> amazing, the best
[04:25] <infinity> Even better if one wrote a "suitcase" replacement that could juggle fontconfig configs, so you could manage fonts in groups, etc, without touching the installed fonts on the filesystem.
[04:26] <Amaranth> sounds like a bounty
[04:26] <daniels> infinity: it's only one file to juggle
[04:26] <infinity> daniels : Can fontconfig group fonts and turn groups on and off with ease?
[04:26] <daniels> infinity: iirc, yes
[04:26] <infinity> daniels : I assumed you might need to juggle configs in and out to achieve groups.
[04:26] <Amaranth> someone remember all this for breezy+1 goals :)
[04:27] <infinity> Bounty it now, and let someone actually have some code by the time breezy+1 opens.
[04:27] <infinity> Bountying 3 months before feature freeze sucks.
[04:27] <daniels> well, have your groups in ~/.fonts/group/foo.conf, and have ~/.fonts/local.conf include a different configuration depending on which group you want, if I remember wrongly and it doesn't have that sort of grouping functionality
[04:27] <Amaranth> who sets up the bounties? :)
[04:27] <infinity> daniels : That would work well, yes.
[04:28] <infinity> The GIMP and Inkscape users would love us for that level of font handling.
[04:28] <infinity> Every graphic artist I know (and oddly, that's a lot), likes to have hundreds/thousands of fonts installed, but only use them a few dozen at a time.
[04:28] <Amaranth> someone needs to spec it and make it a goal
[04:28] <mpt> Ubuntu doesn't *have* enough fonts for anyone to want to juggle subsets of them :->
[04:28] <daniels> fonts are shit anyway
[04:29] <infinity> mpt : Those sorts of users would toss a few gigs of fonts in ~/.fonts/
[04:29] <sebest> on accessibility i think that "Removable Drives and Media" should be accessible from the right click menu on device themselves
=== infinity glances at his girlfriend.
[04:29] <daniels> infinity: i can prove she doesn't exist
[04:29] <sivang> LOLs
[04:30] <infinity> daniels : That would lose you your most attractive drinking buddy.
[04:30] <sebest> and the "floppy formater" should dissappear from application-> system tools , and only be accessible from the right clik menu on a floppy device.
[04:30] <sebest> anyway who use floppy anymore? :)
[04:31] <Amaranth> bad name anyway, iirc that thing can format usb sticks and such too
[04:31] <daniels> infinity: damn, good point.
[04:31] <mpt> sebest: Having something only in a right-click menu makes it non-existent to a large proportion of people
[04:31] <sebest> Amaranth, for me it doesn't even start: error message saying it doesn't find any device 
[04:31] <sivang> sebest: hey, I needed it to fix my dead sarge router :-)
[04:32] <daniels> infinity: but, in any case.  she's intelligent and from cairns, and intelligent : cairns :: matter : antimatter.  so, if she did hypothetically exist, she'd immediately undergo a total existence failure.  and thus be non-existent.  qed.
[04:32] <mpt> sebest: but yes, I've already reported a bug on moving it into a Nautilus menu
[04:32] <mpt> with the same menu item for formatting a floppy or a memory stick or a Zip disk or whatever
[04:33] <sebest> mpt: maybe "media" instead of floppy would be more generic?
[04:33] <sebest> or "removable media"
=== azeem [~mbanck@proxy-out.lrz-muenchen.de]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Reze_M [~reza@81.31.166.231]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[04:36] <mpt> sebest: "Format Disk..." or "Format Volume..."
[04:36] <mpt> or "Erase Volume..."
[04:36] <mpt> or something like that
[04:36] <sivang> pitti: what's the AM_* that specifies the automake version?
[04:37] <pitti> sivang: no idea, I don't use autofoo myself
=== infinity -> bed.
[04:38] <sebest> mpt: i think that's why ms put a visible contextual menu, it's because the right click menu is not obvious to user
[04:38] <pitti> sleep well, infinity 
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[04:38] <infinity> kamion / elmo : It would be swell if xbase-clients's deps were all NEWed and waiting for me when I wake up.
[04:38] <sebest> because this "format" action could appear in the right pane of nautilus, with thing like eject
[04:39] <sebest> mpt: how people that don't konw about the right click menu can eject a media??
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[04:55] <zyga> does dpkg-deb -b rebuild md5sums?
[04:57] <mpt> sebest: I assume that they just unplug it
[04:58] <sebest> mpt: i mean a cdrom, you can't unplug it 
[04:58] <mpt> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2005-May/msg00028.html
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[05:00] <sebest> mpt: talking about ejecting, it's annoying that sometimes, nautilus complain that he can't eject a device because "it's busy" without even telling the user, which programs are accessing the drive
[05:00] <fabbione> hey not everybody is so lucky to have a swimming pool in an apparment :)
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[05:01] <mpt> sebest: Have you reported the bug?
[05:01] <sebest> mpt, should i report it to gnom, or ubuntu?
[05:02] <mpt> bugzilla.gnome.org
[05:02] <sebest> mpt, i didn't report it mainly because it's not a bug but a usability problem
[05:03] <mpt> sebest, a usability problem is a bug
[05:03] <sebest> i read the code that did this, and basically it just call system("eject /dev/hdx") and then display to the user the output of the system()
[05:04] <mpt> 'The disk "Sebest's Photos" cannot be ejected, because some items on it are being used (including "dsc0079.jpg", in use by "F-Spot"). Try closing these applications before ejecting.'
[05:04] <sebest> in my opinion the correct way to fix it would be to have a libeject instead of calling eject as you can't really interpret errors of programs that you call with system()
[05:05] <sebest> mpt, yes that's what i would expect :)
[05:05] <sebest> he could even propose to stop these programs by himself
[05:05] <sebest> (that's what i do using lsof :))
[05:08] <sebest> kill `lsof -t /dev/hdx`
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[05:11] <pitti> lifeless: here?
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[05:13] <sebest> mpt: nautilus Bug 148121: can't eject removable media on mac (1 button mouse) 
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[05:42] <\sh> is somebody working on libopenexr? it needs some glu love
[05:44] <siretart> \sh: glu transition has stopped and needs probably be reversed. update from the xorg guru's pending
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[05:44] <\sh> siretart: dependencies problem :( since a week
[05:44] <\sh> or more
[05:46] <siretart> \sh: i know :(
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[05:47] <\sh> siretart: and I wanted to do some of the remaining MOM stuff
[05:47] <Kamion> infinity: libglu1-mesa doesn't actually contain a library
[05:48] <Kamion> infinity: it only has the /usr/share/doc directory
[05:48] <ogra> \sh, remaining.... ahah
[05:48] <\sh> ogra: not so much ,-)
[05:48] <\sh> ogra: fleissarbeit ,-)
[05:48] <ogra> 230 packages for universe
[05:48] <ogra> http://tinyurl.com/apx5k
[05:49] <ogra> and about 100 for main...
[05:49] <\sh> ogra: well...long night ,-) short day ,-)
[05:49] <ogra> heh
=== Kamion fixes
[05:51] <bddebian> Eeks
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[06:14] <wasabi_> http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/TV/07/20/obit.doohan.ap/index.html
[06:15] <bddebian> wasabi_: :-(
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[06:29] <lifeless> pitti: yes
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[06:32] <lifeless> elmo: ping - I'd like a ls report from bazaar.ubuntu.com if you are around
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[06:43] <pitti> lifeless: is it possible to import upstream mozilla cvs to arch.ubuntu.com?
[06:43] <pitti> lifeless: right now I'm collecting patches from the cvs, but that is sooo painful...
[06:45] <pitti> lifeless: does the import preserve branches?
[06:46] <lifeless> pitti: we don't do branches yet, but we will be doing them
[06:46] <lifeless> pitti: has their CVS structure improved, they used to be insane.
[06:46] <pitti> lifeless: it's still insane, that's why I'm spending hours for grabbing patches out of it
[06:46] <lifeless> pitti: then its likely a blackhole for us to import ast this point.
[06:47] <pitti> lifeless: ... and why I'm pestering you
[06:47] <pitti> lifeless: it would be really cool to have the various firefox/mozilla/tbird etc. branches 
[06:47] <lifeless> pitti: see if you can fill out sensible details on launchpad for it 
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[07:03] <Lathiat> pitti: my usb drive stopped mounting again
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[07:03] <pitti> Lathiat: D'oh, the last version still didn't build - thanks to x...
[07:03] <Lathiat> pitti: oh, right
[07:03] <Lathiat> pitti: <3 xorg
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[07:06] <jammcq_ols> mdz: hey, any chance we can get the FUSE driver into the kernel pkg?  it's shipped with hoary as a stand-alone module
[07:06] <jammcq_ols> and we use it for ltsp local device support
[07:06] <mdz> jammcq_ols: fabbione / #ubuntu-kernel would be the people to talk to
[07:06] <jammcq_ols> ah, thanks
[07:06] <mdz> jammcq_ols: note that feature freeze is coming up (August 11th or so)
[07:07] <jammcq_ols> yep
[07:07] <jammcq_ols> I just heard this morning that FUSE is likely going into the official kernel soon
[07:08] <jammcq_ols> mdz: also, we're planning our 3rd LTSP dev conf for Nov 3-6, and you are welcome to come
[07:08] <mdz> jammcq_ols: that sounds very close to the next ubuntu developer summit, but if it doesn't overlap, that sounds like fun
[07:09] <jammcq_ols> yeah, i tried finding out when the next ubu meeting was, but no answers yet
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[07:17] <Kamion> daniels: shouldn't iceauth, er, have some dependencies?
[07:19] <Kamion> daniels: never mind, I think either I'm insane or fernanda is
[07:19] <Kamion> oh, my terminal's insane, that's it
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[07:20] <carstenh> apropos feature freeze: if a package requiers other packages to include a simple textfile to work correctly, can this be done after the feature-freeze?
[07:20] <carstenh> s/requiers/requires/
[07:21] <Kamion> sheesh, xsetmode is like a 5KB package
[07:21] <Kamion> was that really the most sensible split?
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[07:31] <seb128> Kamion: do you know if launchpad-integration is still NEW or has been dropped for an another reason?
[07:32] <Kamion> still NEW
[07:32] <Kamion> you could have fixed the maintainer address, then you'd know ;)
[07:33] <ogra> heh
[07:34] <Kamion> yay for debcommit that supports arch
[07:34] <Kamion> (devscripts development trunk)
[07:34] <sivang> seb128: don't worry, I'm sure it will be out of new by tommorow :-)
[07:35] <sivang> seb128: btw, what do you think of the gedit source pkg? it doesn't have build-depends on an automake version, pitti said this is a bug
[07:36] <fabbione> Kamion, mdz: could you be so kind to NEW aalib for sparc? i know that elmo should, but it will unblock quite a bunch of pkgs in Dep-wait
[07:37] <seb128> Kamion: I don't consider my @debian.org as a wrong email :p 
[07:37] <seb128> thanks 
[07:37] <seb128> pitti: ping ?
[07:37] <seb128> sivang: let me figure what pitti has to say against my package
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[07:38] <sivang> seb128: sure, I don't think it's your fault - probably the upstream maintainer's 
[07:38] <seb128> sivang: k, just want to point to them errors
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[07:42] <seb128> tseng: have you planned to upload pitfdll to universe?
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[07:44] <tseng> seb128: hm i thought I gave it to you  :)
[07:44] <seb128> tseng: oh, I was supposed to upload?
[07:44] <seb128> I thought you gave it to play with it but that you planned to  upload
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[07:47] <Kamion> seb128: heh
=== sivang wonders if it's possible to use pbuilder's chroot to test apps that use X
[07:47] <sivang> (not just build them)
[07:49] <Kamion> fabbione: I'm slightly concerned about aalib; Debian used the aalib1 -> libaa1 renaming as an excuse to switch to building against slang2, and I'm not sure I'm happy about us reverting that - it seems like it'll cause a lot of hassle
[07:49] <Kamion> fabbione: I'm thinking just doing the slang2 transition might be easier, since after all it did beat UVF
[07:49] <Kamion> although it is a bit more work
[07:50] <sivang> seb128: I have to leave now, when lpint is out of new, test my patch for gedit let me know of any problems, thanks
[07:51] <ogra> Kamion, err, isnt the one with changed deps and name already uploaded ? 
[07:51] <Kamion> ogra: it's in NEW
[07:51] <ogra> ah
[07:52] <Kamion> that being the whole point of the conversation
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=== ogra just saw it on breezy-changes some hours ago
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[07:52] <sivang> night all!
[07:52] <jp_> hi all
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[07:53] <sabdfl> mjg59: given that breezy is so close, we'd like to ask LaptopMission participants to commit to three releases in this first round. any objections?
[07:53] <pitti> seb128: pong
[07:54] <pitti> seb128: if you play evil and call automake in debian/rules, then your package should depend on and call a specific version
[07:54] <pitti> seb128: I guess that was the thing sivang was up to
[07:55] <mjg59> sabdfl: Nope, that's fine
[07:55] <\sh> sounds really good 
[07:55] <sabdfl> mjg59: ok cool, looking forward to seeing how this works out
[07:56] <ogra> sounds like usplash becomes possible then... if mjg59 has more time for it ;)
[07:56] <mjg59> ogra: Well, it'd be good if some other people can hack on it as well
[07:56] <dilinger> mjg59: will usplash require initramfs?
[07:56] <mjg59> dilinger: Yes
[07:57] <mjg59> To work properly, anyway
[07:57] <ogra> mjg59, would a package of it make sense ?
[07:57] <ogra> (some users asked for ne)
[07:57] <ogra> s/ne/one
[07:57] <mjg59> Possibly
[07:57] <mjg59> It's not likely to do much at the moment, though
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[08:01] <mdz> jbailey,fabbione: what's the word on initramfs-by-default?
[08:04] <\sh> thom: ping
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=== pitti kills firefox with a huge patch club
=== dilinger grunts happily at the sight of a dead firefox
[08:29] <Amaranth> it would be so much easier if they just _stopped making new releases_
[08:29] <Amaranth> :)
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[08:34] <\sh> universe/sound/alsaplayer_0.99.76-6ubuntu1: Dep-Wait by buildd+terranova [optional:out-of-date]  Dependencies: alsa-headers
[08:34] <\sh> what is this?
[08:34] <\sh> there are no deps to alsa-headers...
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=== pitti finally fixes hoary's firefox - YAY
[08:59] <mdke> nice :)
[08:59] <pitti> mdke: the patches broke the middle mouse button, it took me 3 hours to fix that :-(
[08:59] <seb128> pitti: I'll update breezy one to 1.0.6
[08:59] <pitti> seb128: thanks, I didn't dare to ask ... :-)
[09:00] <seb128> pitti: anyway, some news on eggcups
=== pitti makes a wild gesture that thunderbird and mozilla need upgrades, too
[09:00] <ogra> seb128, and dont forget to make the package backportable to hoary ;)
[09:00] <Amaranth> pitti: hehe, i asked earlier
[09:00] <pitti> seb128: does it produce eggs now?
[09:00] <Amaranth> mozilla is dropping to universe isn't it?
[09:00] <seb128> pitti: no yet :p
[09:01] <mdke> Amaranth, really? :(
[09:01] <pitti> Amaranth: I'd like to see it there, yes
[09:01] <ogra> pitti, easter is still way to go ;)
[09:01] <seb128> pitti: the upstream discussion turns to "drop gnome-cups-icon from gnome-cups-manager and use eggcups for that, since dbus is much nicer than pulling"
[09:01] <pitti> seb128: sounds sane
[09:01] <seb128> pitti: so we would ship gnome-cups-manager as the UI for printers and eggcups as the systray notification
[09:02] <Amaranth> eggcups only shows jobs in the queue from your user, right?
[09:02] <seb128> pitti: so I need you to upload a patched cups before FeatureFreeze ... :)
[09:02] <seb128> Amaranth: yep
[09:02] <pitti> seb128: no worries, the cleanup shouldn't take that long
[09:03] <pitti> seb128: also, I finally see light in the mozilla mess - only 2 hours of fighting with upstream's cvs and 4 hours of patching/building/testing, then it should be fine
[09:04] <seb128> that's doesn't look to be a cool job :/
[09:04] <pitti> seb128: so I can return to langpacks and cups by friday
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[09:05] <\sh> can someone check on his/her breezy if libgtkhtml3.1 /3.2 is in their cache?
[09:06] <pitti> seb128: 
[09:06] <pitti> $ cvs log -rMOZILLA_1_7_8_RELEASE: > /tmp/mozilla-1.7.8-cvs.log
[09:06] <pitti> pitti@chinstrap:~/moz/mozilla$ ls -l /tmp/mozilla-1.7.8-cvs.log
[09:06] <pitti> -rw-rw-r--  1 pitti warthogs 538656354 Jul 20 17:26 /tmp/mozilla-1.7.8-cvs.log
[09:06] <pitti> seb128: nice changelog volume, isn't it? :-)
[09:06] <seb128> yeah
[09:07] <seb128> \sh: we have asked the removal of versions < 3.6
[09:07] <\sh> nice
[09:07] <\sh> now I need them
[09:07] <\sh> or I should drop mysql-query-browser-1.1.12
[09:07] <pitti> \sh: what for? does a package not work with 3.6?
[09:07] <\sh> no
[09:07] <\sh> without heavy patching no 
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[09:09] <\sh> pitti: it wants gtkhtml3.1/3.2 and gtkmm2.0
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[09:10] <\sh> gtkhtml3.6+gtkmm2.4 is the right combination, but the source refuses to build...
[09:10] <seb128> drop it
[09:10] <seb128> if it's used versions for ages ago it's not a maintained piece of code
[09:10] <\sh> seb128: mysql.com ,-)
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[09:13] <pitti> Hi jdthood 
[09:14] <jdthood> pitti: Hey there
[09:14] <\sh> but it should work
[09:14] <\sh> damn
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[09:17] <jbm_> Is it necessary to install a cpu-specific kernel to get powernowd to support frequency scaling on amd64?
[09:22] <\sh> no i drop it
[09:23] <\sh> damn
[09:23] <Nafallo> jbm_: no. and that really is a question for #ubuntu
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[09:39] <mdz> doko: do you know about this already?
[09:39] <mdz> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/openoffice.org2-common_1.9.114-1ubuntu3_all.deb (--unpack):
[09:39] <mdz>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/openoffice2/share/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/UI/DbuCommands.xcu', which is also in package openoffice.org2-base
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[09:42] <Kamion> mdz: for the GraphicalInstaller spec, do you think I can get away with only including minimal on the live CD, not bothering with standard?
[09:42] <Kamion> would alleviate space problems somewhat
=== Kamion -> dinner, pub, etc.
[09:43] <mdz> Kamion: I think at this point I would consider base-on-live to be approximately optional
[09:43] <Kamion> night folks
[09:43] <Kamion> mdz: hmm, ok
[09:43] <pitti> night Kamion 
[09:43] <mdz> Kamion: how is OEMinstaller, btw?
[09:43] <Kamion> mdz: well, I just added support to cdimage for it, we can stick it on if it fits
[09:43] <Kamion> mdz: I just updated BreezyGoals with status for that
[09:43] <mdz> I think it doesn't fit
[09:43] <mdz> oh, thanks
[09:43] <Kamion> I think I may need help, we'll see
[09:43] <mdz> just = within the past couple of hours, presumably
[09:43] <Kamion> yeah
[09:46] <Kamion> why is alsa-base in minimal, anyway?
[09:46] <Kamion> ok, really gone
[09:47] <\sh> can anyone explain the dep-wait for alsaplayer? it waits for alsa-headers, but there is no build-depends on alsa-headers...
[09:48] <seth_k> \sh, http://yggdrasil.sytes.net/files/debdiff/alsaplayer_0.99.76-0.2ubuntu4.debdiff
[09:48] <mdz> \sh: that'd be a lamont or infinity question
[09:48] <seth_k> it looks like slomo has edited this package and posted a debdiff at UniverseUnmetDeps
[09:49] <\sh> no...i'm with 6ubuntuX
[09:49] <\sh> seth_k: there is a MoM ongoing
[09:49] <\sh> MoMmerge
[09:49] <seth_k> \sh, ah, sorry
[09:50] <\sh> mdz: i wonder where this comes from
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=== lamont__ looks
=== pitti waves to lamont__ 
[10:04] <lamont__> seth_k: because alsaplayer_0.99.76-0.2ubuntu3 had such a build-dep, and dep-waits do not automatically clear - someone has to poke infinity or me
[10:04] <seth_k> cheers for the explain, lamont__ :)
[10:06] <lamont__> seth_k: btw, -0.2ubuntu3 was the last build that was attempted, as well.
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[10:07] <lamont__> mdz: did you see my email on package promotion?
[10:07] <mdz> lamont__: yes, but I am buried right now, both work-related and not
[10:07] <lamont__> ok
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[10:11] <\sh> lamont__: hmm..I thought they buildd are parsing build-dep and pulling the right packages in?
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[10:13] <lamont__> \sh: yep
[10:13] <\sh> lamont__: but?
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[10:13] <\sh> ;)
[10:13] <lamont__> Build-Depends: libasound2-dev, libgtk1.2-dev, debhelper (>= 4), libesd0-dev, alsa-headers, ...
[10:13] <lamont__> but once a package is dep-wait, it's ignored until the depwait is met
[10:14] <\sh> ah u mean, even if the new package has different build-deps it goes into dep-wait cause of the old one
[10:14] <Amaranth> hrm
[10:15] <lamont__> \sh: no.  it _STAYS_ in dep-wait
[10:15] <lamont__> package is never even looked at.
[10:15] <Amaranth> bug in pyxdg moves to bug in gnome-menus moved to new proposal for freedesktop.org menu spec
[10:15] <\sh> lamont__: ok..understand...
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[10:27] <ogra> mdz, ping
[10:31] <ogra> hmpf
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[10:41] <\sh> lol
[10:41] <\sh> ogra: bad luck
[10:41] <ogra> yep
[10:41] <ogra> but he has worse things to solve then answering my questions...
[10:43] <\sh> ogra: yeah, me too..my ex was contacting me after 4 weeks of refusing and not knowing where she is :(
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[11:16] <ogra> mdz, ping
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[11:23] <mdz> ogra: pong
[11:23] <ogra> mdz, we committed to ship mediawiki in edubuntu... 
[11:24] <ogra> there is no package yet, an ITP from 2002 is in debian, but not much has happened...
[11:24] <ogra> do i make an ubuntu package or do we switch to moin ?
[11:25] <ogra> ITP: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=276057
[11:25] <mdz> ogra: mediawiki is a PHP application?
[11:25] <\sh> ogra: I would like to see mediawiki as package ,-)
[11:25] <ogra> yep 
[11:26] <ogra> there has been some action from andreas tille yesterday... but i doubt they will produe anything in time for breezy we could use
[11:26] <ogra> http://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-mediawiki/
[11:26] <ogra> produce even
[11:26] <ogra> we'd need mediawiki for the wikipedia contents too...
[11:27] <mdz> how many other items on the list are not packaged yet?
[11:27] <ogra> only mediaiki...
[11:28] <ogra> other packages are waiting for glu and X transitions to finish...
[11:28] <seb128> mediawiki will be packaged for sure
[11:28] <seb128> french DD were speaking about it yesterday
[11:28] <ogra> seb128, yes, but i need to tweak the config etc... will it be in time ?
[11:28] <ogra> i need some extra time for it
[11:28] <seb128> I can try to figure tomorrow when they will have a package
[11:29] <ogra> seb128, that'd be awesome :)
[11:29] <ogra> if they cant make one i'll look into it... but it semms not trivial to get it right...
[11:29] <ogra> so it will draw some time ....
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[11:30] <seb128> bounty?
[11:30] <ogra> hmm
[11:31] <ogra> it'd be a very quick one... i'll need it soon for the config tweaks and testing...
[11:31] <\sh> what is debian webapps group saying}
[11:31] <\sh> ?
[11:32] <ogra> \sh, there is an ITP since 2002 not much has happened
[11:32] <ogra> they seem to start somethig more since beginning of the week
[11:33] <\sh> ogra: well...actually...if you need it for edubuntu package it...but don't package for a common server use :( webapps group doesn't have a good solution for webapps right now (imho)
[11:34] <ogra> \sh, if i package it, i'll package it for common server use... and make edubuntu config tweaks at installtime....
[11:34] <ogra> it would be silly to have a mediawiki that can only be sed in edubuntu
[11:34] <ogra> s/sed/used
[11:35] <ogra> but there was a big demand among the summit attendees... so we shouldnt leave it out...
[11:35] <\sh> hmmmm...
[11:35] <\sh> does it depend on stuff from PEAR?
[11:36] <\sh> i can't remember
[11:36] <ogra> nope
[11:36] <ogra> not as far as i've seen yet
[11:36] <ogra> php4 and mysql....
[11:36] <ogra> you can plug in ocaml stuff....
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[11:37] <\sh> php5 works as well in php4 compat mode..
[11:37] <ogra> \sh, i wont introduce php5 in edubuntu now :-P
[11:38] <ogra> its worse enough to have php..... i dont want untested packages of php5 there
[11:39] <\sh> I just think about some constrains between mediawiki+pear...ah w8 ,-)
[11:40] <\sh> yes
[11:40] <\sh> PHPTAL
=== shaya looks at topic?
[11:40] <shaya> X is broken?
[11:40] <shaya> seems to work for me
[11:40] <\sh> ogra: PHPTAL comes from pear
[11:41] <\sh> it's distributed with mediawiki
[11:42] <ogra> i dont see references to it on the page....
[11:42] <ogra> but i see: PHP 5.1.0beta3 is known to be incompatible at this time.
[11:42] <\sh> i was using 1.3.10 of mediawiki
[11:42] <\sh> but 5.0.x was working ,-)
[11:43] <ogra> i'm looking at 1.4.7 (current stable release)
[11:43] <\sh> no PHPTAL anymore? 
[11:43] <ogra> i see no reference... but i didnt look closer for now....
[11:46] <ogra> \sh, lets see what seb128 finds out tomorrow... and either we'll bounty it or i package it, or mdz decides to drop it :) lets wait for tomorrow
[11:47] <\sh> ok...
[11:47] <\sh> last package for today...
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