[12:03] <mpathy> okay, i am outing me.. i made a e17 theme based on the kreski lines, which will come out in bundle with a window engine from tilman, who displays windows just as they where handdrawn, but in a blink of an eye ;)
[12:04] <mpathy> watch out for it.. but thats my only other project.. right now I want to do sth. for ubuntu.. ;)
[12:20] <mpathy> oh.. its midnight.. got to go! see ya
[12:21] <mpathy> bye
[12:21] <efbie> bye
[01:43] <volvoguy> howdy folks.
[01:43] <efbie> hello !
[01:43] <volvoguy> what's new in the magical world of ubuntu?
[01:44] <efbie> the princess has been kidnapped by a monster
[01:44] <volvoguy> crap. i hate when that happens. i'll go sharpen my sword.
[01:45] <efbie> :)
[01:45] <volvoguy> hmm... x-chat doesn't like to talk to Firefox, does it? i have to keep copy/pasting URLs manually. 
[01:46] <efbie> yep
[01:46] <volvoguy> oh well.
[01:46] <volvoguy> so who's working on icons this week?
[01:46] <efbie> i did my homework
[01:46] <efbie> but i would like some feedback from andy
[01:47] <volvoguy> what are you working on specifically? just making bitmaps (png's) out of the SVGs?
[01:47] <efbie> no, new mime types
[01:47] <efbie> i posted in the mailing list 
[01:47] <volvoguy> oh, cool. i noticed a few were missing.
[01:48] <efbie> a lot are still missing
[01:48] <volvoguy> i need to go grab your zip file. it won't overwrite anything will it?
[01:48] <efbie> i am trying some different style for code/text mime types
[01:48] <efbie> it will overwrite
[01:49] <efbie> just discards what's in "FS"
[01:49] <volvoguy> ok. i'll just make a "working" copy of andy's theme for now.
[01:49] <efbie> wait a minute
[01:49] <volvoguy> ok. :o)
[01:51] <volvoguy> efbie: so i can keep names straight, are you Fred? we really need a photo guide with everyone's pic and aliases in it. :o)
[01:51] <efbie> yes i'm fred :)
[01:52] <volvoguy> glad to meet you. :)
[01:52] <volvoguy> i'm apparently Aaron #1. 
[01:52] <efbie> hehe :) me too, even if meeting on IRC isn't what we can really call a "meeting" :D
[01:53] <volvoguy> eh, it's better than all email interaction. 
[01:53] <efbie> I'm uploading my modifications as a separate theme, so it'll be easier to compare :)
[01:54] <volvoguy> ok. just give me a URL and i'll grab it when it's ready.
[01:54] <efbie> www.mentalwarp.com/~fred/divers/humility-icons2.zip
[01:55] <volvoguy> got it.
[01:56] <volvoguy> are you creating the new icons in gimp or inkscape? 
[01:56] <efbie> inkscape
[01:57] <volvoguy> k. just curious. there's only pngs in your zip file.
[01:57] <efbie> no there should be a "scalable" folder
[01:58] <efbie> if they aren't in there, they are in the mail
[01:58] <volvoguy> yeah, i'm sorry . i take that back. "less" didn't tell me everything that was in there.
[01:59] <volvoguy> ok. i'm going to go peek around and see how they look. :o)
[01:59] <efbie> :)
[01:59] <efbie> some icons are quite WIP
[01:59] <efbie> like the folders
[01:59] <volvoguy> ok
[02:00] <efbie> i was just trying alternatives to andy's folders
[02:00] <efbie> and this is the last version, but i don't like it so much.
[02:00] <volvoguy> yeah, that's cool. i'd definitely double-check with him on things as major as folders though. 
[02:01] <efbie> that's why i'm waiting for him :)
[02:01] <volvoguy> the poor Aussie. i'm always heading to bed just when he's getting ready to work. :)
[02:01] <efbie> yeah....
[02:02] <efbie> it's quite the oposite of the world for me
[02:03] <volvoguy> can i just use a text editor to edit the index.theme file and give it a more meaningful name than humility2?
[02:03] <efbie> yep
[02:03] <volvoguy> k. thx.
[02:03] <efbie> i just did that a minute ago, wasn't too much inspired :D
[02:05] <efbie> volvoguy: where do you live ?
[02:05] <volvoguy> efbie: detroit, michigan, usa.
[02:06] <efbie> ok
[02:06] <volvoguy> you?
[02:06] <efbie> Belgium
[02:06] <volvoguy> cool. i love your chocolate. hehe. ;)
[02:07] <efbie> i heard detroit is where industrial music was invented is it right ?
[02:08] <volvoguy> i like your folder and archive icons. a bit more rustic than andrew's. 
[02:08] <volvoguy> that's what i hear. i don't listen to much industrial though. i'm a guitar player - it puts me out of a job. ;)
[02:08] <efbie> lol
[02:10] <volvoguy> have any of you tried foresight linux? i was just over chatting with their art director, as our aesthetics seem to be similar. (only seen from screenshots though, their install disc seems to be broken ATM). 
[02:10] <efbie> yep, i found andy's icon too "linspire like", but mine are too blurred and massive. It's a sad thing when the point of this theme was to look light
[02:10] <efbie> didn't even heard about it
[02:11] <volvoguy> foresight is probably loosely based on fedora, but it uses a new package manager called canary and is mostly used to showcase all the mono/beagle stuff. 
[02:11] <efbie> ok
[02:12] <efbie> the screenshots don't tell much
[02:12] <volvoguy> the thing i like about andy's icons is that they seem to be a good compromise for the ubuntu and kubuntu crowds. we want to do as much sharing as possible.
[02:13] <efbie> that's a good idea
[02:13] <efbie> my folders in a kde env would look like a fist in the face :D
[02:14] <volvoguy> yeah. i'm not sure how that will work for overall themes, (i've only demoed the kubuntu live disc), but hopefully our group will do good enough work that the kubuntu folks will pick some of it up too.
[02:15] <efbie> yep
[02:16] <volvoguy> your different mime-type icons look good. i have a few txt, jar and deb files in my home directory that are just blank pieces of paper in andrews theme.
[02:17] <efbie> thanks
[02:17] <volvoguy> if you're going to be around, i expect Andrew to pop in in the next few hours. 
[02:17] <efbie> ok
[02:18] <volvoguy> and on that note, i'm going to go find some food so i have the energy to stay up chatting later. 
[02:18] <efbie> it's getting really late here... 
[02:18] <efbie> so i'll not stay long
[02:18] <efbie> 15min max
[02:18] <volvoguy> no problem. do what you can - even ask questions if you have them and i'll tell andrew to look through the chat logs.
[02:19] <volvoguy> speak of the devil. ;-)
[02:19] <efbie> :) 
[02:19] <AndyFitz> hey hey!
[02:20] <efbie> hi !
[02:20] <volvoguy> i'll quickly sum up... Andy and efbie need to talk about icons and Aaron needs to go eat dinner. i'll be back in a few. 
[02:20] <AndyFitz> g'day efbie, how are you
[02:20] <AndyFitz> ciao aaron
[02:20] <volvoguy> see ya! 
[02:20] <efbie> tired, it's 2h30 here :)
[02:20] <efbie> ++
[02:21] <AndyFitz> puch,  its 10:20am here
[02:21] <efbie> it would be difficult to have a greater hour delay :D
[02:22] <efbie> So, maybe you'll be interested in this : www.mentalwarp.com/~fred/divers/humility-icons2.zip
[02:22] <AndyFitz> yep  we're opposite sides of the world . sometimes I wish I was an insonmiac
[02:22] <efbie> luckily i am :)
[02:24] <efbie> i quickly made a separate theme to check differences
[02:24] <efbie> but the svg sources are in the mail
[02:27] <efbie> the folders icons are the fruits of unfinished experiments 
[02:30] <AndyFitz> eep
[02:30] <AndyFitz> it sucks that we can't go down this path
[02:31] <efbie> ?
[02:31] <AndyFitz> firstly we need to use colours in the palette   ( we can pretty much make any shade / saturation by duplicating the shape and mixing with black white and grey with a semi transparent layer on top
[02:31] <efbie> ah ok
[02:31] <efbie> wasn't aware of this :)
[02:31] <AndyFitz> the brown folders  .  while suave and cool arent going to be able to match the theme.   that brown is too close to the base colour of the desktop background palette 
[02:32] <AndyFitz> its all good :)
[02:32] <AndyFitz> heh  mark reviewed the stuff and said that the existing ( shinyish ) icons were too muted and brown 
[02:33] <efbie> ok
[02:33] <AndyFitz> Im telling him we arent KDE  but we don't mind adding bling and brightening things up a bit. 
[02:34] <efbie> yep, the document icons are nicely shiny :)
[02:34] <AndyFitz> it will be good to have a set that is really bright styled and mature enough to still be usable .    your icon is mature and usable  but lax the  kapow  ( I like it  but id like it in another theme not ubuntu-default 
[02:35] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/palettesheet.svg
[02:35] <AndyFitz> score a copy of that .      it may seem too bright  .  but you can subtly add overlays of grey black or white to tone things
[02:36] <AndyFitz> it would be nice to keep the hex values in the svg matching those in the palette for future changes and derivatives to be done quickly
[02:37] <efbie> ok
[02:38] <efbie> i have a question :
[02:39] <efbie> there is about 52338 mime-types related to plain text documents
[02:39] <AndyFitz> we are professionals efbie, this is more serious of a product than a cornflakes box design
[02:39] <AndyFitz> :-)
[02:39] <efbie> but, if we want them all (and i want them all)
[02:40] <efbie> we need to make variations of a "base text-icon"
[02:40] <efbie> or something like that
[02:40] <efbie> the current icon with a pen is really nice, but we can't do any variation of it
[02:41] <AndyFitz> the gnome-fs-regular icon with the grey frame is probably the best to play with
[02:42] <efbie> ok
[02:42] <AndyFitz> I'll need to crank out alot more assets to play with then hopefully compositing tasks will be alot easier.  I don't want our graphical assets to restrict what we want to represent so please email me requests
[02:42] <efbie> ok
[02:44] <AndyFitz> sweet :)
[02:44] <efbie> i have another question
[02:45] <efbie> how much figurative and symbolic do you want the icons to be ?
[02:45] <AndyFitz> sure thing
[02:46] <AndyFitz> less symbolic and more figurative is the goal. but we will have to compromise when  objects just don't seem to suit
[02:47] <efbie> like the gnome-mime-text-x-patch.svg  
[02:47] <efbie> i took the approach to show the code
[02:47] <efbie> but maybe it would have been better to draw a patch
[02:48] <efbie> a bandage or something
[02:49] <efbie> an "adhesive plaster" (with the help of google) :)
[02:49] <AndyFitz> sadly puns don't work for other cultures 
[02:50] <efbie> ok. So the path i choosen is the right one ?
[02:50] <efbie> (jesus my english is sooo bad at this time of the day)
[02:50] <AndyFitz> I dig it .  like a log for a log-file.    it just wouldnt work in languages where log means thick wood stick and  computer log means  software record 
[02:51] <efbie> ok
[02:52] <efbie> and is writing the extension in the icon a good or bad practice ?
[02:55] <AndyFitz> very bad
[02:56] <AndyFitz> in a perfect world file extensions neednt exist .  
[02:56] <AndyFitz> a good example of this is ..    a html file is sometimes called a htm file
[02:56] <AndyFitz> but the mimetype is the same
[02:57] <efbie> ok
[02:57] <AndyFitz> so having either htm or html in the icon would be wrong for one or the other ( and we are using up the precious whitespace where we could otherwise be  visually describing what a web document is all about :-)
[02:58] <efbie> :)
[02:58] <AndyFitz>  I justify it to myself as [ more text = less pretty pictures  ]     [ more pretty pictures = more communicative imagery] 
[02:58] <efbie> but we still need to find way to differenciate similar things with different extensions.
[02:59] <AndyFitz> yep ,  slight varations of colour    or get clever with the mime image
[02:59] <efbie> like currently there was one icon type for .png, .jpg, .gif
[02:59] <efbie> (my sentences make no sense, i'm aware of it :D )
[03:00] <efbie> i have a better understanding of the icon guidelines :)
[03:00] <AndyFitz> like for wave files an midi files this is simple .    use notes for midi  and wave pattern for wave files.     for   jpeg and giff this is also simple.   use only a few pixels for gif suggesting its a raster palette constricted lossy format .  and use gradients for jpeg suggesting its high colour 
[03:01] <efbie> good ideas
[03:02] <efbie> tomorrow i'll add that to the wiki
[03:02] <AndyFitz> for those funky module  music things made on mod trackers we could have lots of little snippets of wave patterns.  for the rom files we could use the gnome-joystick icon  but use similar colour combinations to the nature of the consoles brand we are trying to emulate  ( purple for nintendo   ) blue for sega green for xbox etc
[03:02] <AndyFitz> that would be awesome, thankyou 
[03:03] <efbie> what would be nice too, is a list of the icons that needs to be done, icons that are done, and icons in progress that needs reviews
[03:03] <efbie> in fact it is quite needed
[03:06] <AndyFitz> very much so
[03:06] <AndyFitz> we need a really simple way of showing that stuff is done / pending / not done
[03:08] <AndyFitz> I'll be able to put up a list of stuff.   where we can have 4 states  ,    completed, pixel cleanup needed, not done -composition needed, not done assets needed
[03:10] <efbie> maybe a "to be reviewed/ reviewed" stage would be nice, so that the pixel cleaning isn't done on bad icons 
[03:10] <AndyFitz> yes good point
[03:12] <efbie> can i ask you to make a review of my  mimetypes iconset so that i know what's good, what's bad, etc... ?
[03:14] <efbie> don't be afraid to be harsh on critique :)
[03:15] <efbie> ok, time for me to sleep. 
[03:15] <efbie> see you later ! 
[03:15] <AndyFitz> okay,  just a few quick points 
[03:15] <AndyFitz> *we need to use the palette!
[03:15] <AndyFitz> *text in the text icons isnt a good idea   .not just for i18n  but because  things look cluttered.  and then the mimes become size specific to read the text properly  ( to be realisitc alot of the mimes  won't have pixel versions done because of the sheer amount of stuff we need to get through
[03:16] <AndyFitz> I did the illustrator icon.  but not the use of the name of the software.  remove that side thing and its rad. /   
[03:17] <AndyFitz> the font icon is PERFECT! .  just make sure the text in the svg is subset   ( in inkscappe convert object to path )   otherwise machines without bitstream will view it differently 
[03:17] <AndyFitz> also make the font text and handles a little bigger
[03:18] <AndyFitz> even ditch the lowercase a ( if we must to make it bigger and viewable at 22x22 )  but I think its a nice touch
[03:19] <AndyFitz> I've got some styled coffee cup assets for the java bytecode icon.   and id like to work on the jar image to sex-it-up   a little, if you don't mind)   .  id really like you to submitt what we don't use to the openclipar.org gallery
[03:20] <AndyFitz> the adobe icons arent cool.  we will get kicked in the head for publishing their name/ identity.   lets not risk it and be more symbolic with them
[03:20] <AndyFitz> thats about it !
[03:20] <AndyFitz> thanks for your help :D  thank
[03:21] <AndyFitz> oh wait.  the video icons.  are not to be put in the document icon.  ( videos arent displayed on a paper medium so why put them there ( its all HIG relelvant)
[03:21] <AndyFitz> rocking work tho !
[03:23] <AndyFitz> efbie,  I really appreciate your help.  it will be interesting to see your work develop as we continue this project
[03:23] <AndyFitz> night mate
[06:44] <AndyFit1> awww  yeaaaa
[01:26] <Starchild> hello?
[01:27] <Starchild> anybody home?
[01:45] <gothcat> hi
[03:59] <efbie> hi
[03:59] <efbie> I talked with Andy yesterday, and we updated the iconGuide to be more precise
[04:00] <kafeine> hi
[04:00] <kafeine> :)
[04:01] <kafeine> lemmeseeee
[04:01] <kafeine> ..
[04:03] <kafeine> i like it better now, yup :)
[04:22] <Nafallo> gothcat: don't forget to look ar the page in topic :-)
[04:22] <gothcat> Nafallo: ?
[04:22] <Nafallo> gothcat: /topic
[06:26] <Nafallo> gothcat thinks the boxes for archives should be closed if the files are not unpacked :-)
[06:27] <Nafallo> ^ talking about humility
[06:28] <ogra> heh, cool idea, but if you unpack a archive it gets a folder normally....
[06:28] <ogra> or a number of files
[06:30] <Nafallo> yea. I think the point is more like: it's an archive. that should be a closed box.
[06:31] <Nafallo> the idea I thought she meant could be a breezy+15 goal or something ;-)
[06:31] <ogra> heh