=== robitaille [~daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [~mgalvin@cpe-69-205-46-35.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Mez [~Mez@cpc2-lich4-3-0-cust115.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === uniq [~frode@213.184.199.55] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [~corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:08] Burgundavia: it seems that mediawiki will be possibly packaged in Edunbutu [01:08] there was a discussion about it earlier in ubuntu-devel [01:10] yes [01:11] ogra is making/finding packages === mdke nods [01:15] its essential for edubuntu === HrdwrBoB [~matt@bob.is.teh.admin.at.vicnet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:20] but why mediawiki in that educational context? is it a technical issue? [01:21] mark likes the idea of using wikis to prepare lessons and for children to take their notes [01:21] i think its a pretty cool idea [01:21] I was under the impression that moin was easier to install to its php-less approach [01:21] robitaille, quite right. In fact there is a moin-desktop which is just a zip file, unzip and you're away, a personal wiki :) [01:21] it AMAZING [01:22] it/it's [01:22] robitaille, but mediawiki is the best [01:22] have you ever played with tiddlywiki? it's a personal wiki in one html file [01:22] wow [01:22] i'm gonna ping ogra about moin-desktop, just make him aware of it [01:23] I use tiddly-wiki has a note-taking "application" at work [01:23] mediawiki is far nicer to show content [01:23] as you have play with css, etc. [01:23] the big push at work these days is to have a wiki...any wiki...to help with our work. Hopefully it will happen soon [01:24] the only thing moin is better for in my opinion is that it can push more requests/second [01:24] in the order of 10x more [01:28] moin has plenty of scope for css [01:28] even individual users can specify their own css [01:29] and css works in the pages afaik [01:29] I find the markup in mediawiki to be more sane and more extensible [01:29] but yeah mediawiki is accepted as being better [01:29] its just you need to install more stuff, including php, and that makes a thin client setup a bit heavy IMHO [01:29] all that would be setup on the server [01:30] sure i know, but the server might have to handle 20 thin clients [01:30] the less load, the better [01:30] true [01:30] mediawiki currently lacks developers, to be honest [01:30] more exposure will help it find more [01:31] i've been trying to hack up the moin code to get the italian team's header on their wiki [01:31] its painful [01:31] instead of using html, it's in a python script that is converted to html by the engine [01:32] ouch [01:32] and what mediawiki calls templates are entirely too useful [01:32] I have found no easy way in Moin === mdke shrugs [01:33] dude, I have 10,000 edits on WP. I pretty much know all its annoying quirks [01:37] like the page duplicating one [01:37] that is quite annoying [01:37] i wasn't challenging your knowledge [01:37] i was just saying i didn't know the way in Moin either [01:37] I sure there is a way, it is just not as simple [01:38] moin *may* have more power, but they haven't made the common stuff simple [01:38] agreed [01:39] but for the purposes of edubuntu, it might be an option worth considering, especially if kids are used to the ubuntu wiki [01:39] I would argue that more kids have seen wikipedia [01:41] sure [01:42] there is a mediawiki-like theme for moin ;) [01:42] almost nobody changes the default [01:42] fedora uses moin too [01:42] And how many kids have edited in ubuntu-wiki or wikipedia? at the end, what matters is how you setup the wiki on your end, not how looks like in some remote sites that may or may not have been heavily customized. [01:42] Burgundavia, the default can be a custom one [01:42] like on ours (ubuntu) [01:42] anyway, they can make the decision, I've msg'ed ogra [01:42] I don't find CamelCase intutive and I think most kids/teahcers would also find that same thing [01:42] i only want to make him aware of it, I'm not bothered about the decision [01:43] camelcase is not necessary in moin [01:43] https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12837 [01:43] consider it an extra [01:43] see my previous comment about default and not-changing them [01:43] ? [01:44] that bug reported started a thread on the mailing list [01:44] he is a good guy [01:44] he's mailed jerome in the past with some nice ideas [01:44] ok [01:45] bbl [02:01] AreWeTalkingAboutJavaFunctions? [02:02] no [02:12] this is cool [02:12] http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1006 [02:12] thinking it should be something default for gnome [02:16] looks nice === uniq [~frode@213.184.199.55] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:47] anyone home? [02:47] http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=50591 [02:48] leaving now, sorry [02:52] ok bye Burgundavia [02:52] nice spot on that thread [02:52] oooh [04:36] Burgundavia, erm... i've noticed you've deleted some wiki pages without removing links... this is _very_ bad [04:37] an example is Accessibility [04:37] you really really really should check all backlinks before renaming or deleting a page: this is essential otherwise there will be broken links all over the wiki. Check for backlinks by clicking on the page title === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.236] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:43] morning jsgotangco [04:45] we have a linode server :) === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.236] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:56] mdke, still awake at this time? [05:00] yeah [05:00] 4 am [05:00] damn ;) [05:01] jsgotangco, how are you? [05:01] we have a server [05:02] you pinging out again? [05:04] no im fine now [05:04] i'm down hommie [05:04] just editing some edubuntu draft docs [05:05] svn desperately needs love again === mdke nods [05:07] the ubuntu user guide is gonna need some serious lovin [05:07] what the hell happened its like a ghost town here lately [05:07] seems ok to me [05:07] svn commits come and go [05:07] no i mean on svn [05:07] i guess mgalvin and rob^ are taking a rest :D [05:07] i guess a working X would also help [05:07] :P [05:07] true [05:08] i am still working in hoary [05:08] same here [05:08] i think we'll need to profile edubuntu as well [05:08] ?? [05:08] since its going to have yelp and its basically ubuntu anyways [05:08] me and ogra talked about it === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.210.238] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:09] profile it for what/ [05:09] hey there jiyuu0 [05:09] well i wouldn't want to rewrite some docs [05:10] jsgotangco, which docs were you thinking of profiling it into? [05:10] we'll see...maybe i was rushing.. [05:10] surely edubuntu is not gonna be that similar to ubuntu [05:10] given that it's for thin clients [05:11] i'll just grab a daily build when its working already === mdke nods [05:12] im gonna start reviewing docs later [05:12] i have to get some sleep [05:13] i am getting worried and in 2 weeks it'll be august heh [05:13] feel free to write a docteam front page for docteam.ubuntu.com :D [05:13] otherwise maybe henrik will do it [05:13] i don't have access to it yet but i can dump html [05:13] sure just sent it to the list if you do it [05:14] you can use the css from ubuntu.com i guess, just something simple [05:14] then we'll just have to make a way to have jobs on our svn [05:14] and move it to that server [05:14] hmm [05:14] how did you do it with tseng's? [05:14] or is it manually triggered? [05:15] building the docs? [05:15] yeah [05:15] i've set it up already on the server :) [05:15] what server? [05:15] just a cron job doing svn up and make targets [05:15] docteam.ubuntu.com server [05:16] oh you mean d.u.c already has a working copy [05:16] yes [05:16] wow so that means you already have root access? [05:16] i haven't written to the list because i wanna test it [05:17] well i recommended to henrik that we disable root [05:17] ok so its all su then [05:17] the cronjobs are just run as a user [05:17] but yeah i've set up sudo [05:18] so you just ssh to the d.u.c and do your stuff? [05:18] yes [05:18] well not d.u.c, the ip [05:18] are you using an account with sudo priv? [05:18] the name isn't pointed there [05:18] yes [05:18] temporarily [05:18] hmmm apache should then be mapped to a local user as well [05:19] at least have the user public_html folder [05:19] once we're sure it works, we'll get a normal sudo-less user doing it [05:19] an ordinary user would do for that [05:19] yes, that's what I mean [05:20] not sure public_html is needed [05:20] i've done setups on 5.04 as a server it doesn't really take that much of an effort especially with apache [05:20] just an ordinary user making the docs and moving them to apache space [05:20] sure its needed if its a multi-user and if we like to have d.u.c/~foo stuff [05:21] do we want ~foo stuff? [05:21] its an idea [05:21] for members you mean? [05:21] sure why not but it'll be an overhead for sure especially if its a lot [05:21] hmm [05:21] its got 57 MB of RAM dude [05:22] that'll mean all accounts will have /bin/bash/ [05:22] awesome [05:22] i'd suggest not adding anything unless its necessary [05:22] well let's just test one [05:22] no sudo priv [05:23] just ssh [05:23] jsgotangco, my opinion is to only do things when there is a reason, right now I don't see a need for multiuser, but maybe in the future we can implement it [05:23] obviously we can add some more users, but multiuser apache might add to the load [05:23] anyway, i'll leave it to henrik [05:23] well if you don't do multiuser at least for one more, that means anyone who uploads on that will have sudo access [05:24] jsgotangco, ??? [05:24] sharing the same account [05:24] jsgotangco, there is no uploading [05:24] ahhh i thought there was [05:24] err [05:24] how do you upload the frontpage then? [05:24] i mean, there is uploading, but its not necessary for serving docs [05:25] right right [05:25] jsgotangco, what we can do is set up a user on that box (e.g. ubuntu-doc) that will get the svn repo and build the docs there in its userspace, then move it to the apache directory [05:25] that user would not have sudo privs [05:25] right [05:27] ok 4.30 [05:27] sleep time [05:27] night [05:27] alright sweet nightmares [05:28] :) === robitaille [~daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:50] mdke, gah, oops [06:52] brb [07:19] oh god [07:19] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserGuideAddingRepositories [07:26] anybody remeber when I posted that top things #ubuntu users want? [07:33] difficult to forget...it created a long discussion after you posted that...especially because of your use of the word "crap" in that email :) [07:33] no, not that one [07:34] that one went to ubuntu-devel [07:34] found it any way [07:34] http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-May/002273.html [07:34] I believe the word was actually noise [07:35] Seeing as I have the time, I distilled a the breezy new feature thread [07:35] on this forum [1] down to stuff that I didn't see on the UDU wiki. [07:35] *Most of the thread is total crack* Here is the useful stuff: [07:35] There, everything else on that forum is noise. [07:36] robitaille, what do you think of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserGuideAddingRepositories [07:38] it's the kind of thing I would do myself on my machine...but I wouldn't recommend to a new user. [07:38] yes [07:38] keep the page, but we need a big large blinking warning at the top with links to alternative methods [07:38] and the page just got created [07:39] and find out who the author is. [07:39] jasoncohen [07:39] he and I disagree on some things [07:40] I am going to raise it at the New User Network meeting ont he 22 [07:40] is he part of the NUN thing? [07:40] yes [07:41] I have to go...I'll be back in a few minutes [07:46] do we have a howto for installing .deb files? [07:48] i just made one up "sudo dpkg -i "debfile"" [07:49] right === jsgotangco [~jgotangco@202.57.71.236] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:53] froud: ping? === robitaille [~daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:57] i'm bored, any robot work needed? [07:58] want to check over my newly done page? [07:58] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FileCompression [08:01] need a working copy of firefox for one section in the above doc [08:01] under the .xpi section [08:01] Filecompression page looks great [08:02] extend as necessary [08:04] hummm... "Warning: Installing programs from .debs can seriously damage your system". I'm actually a lot concerned by this than people downloading some 3rd party applications (realplayer, ipodder, etc), and seeing them blindly running the install.sh script that comes with them. THAT can trash your system. At least a .deb usually follow some guidelines and files will not be overwritten unless forced. [08:04] s/a lot/alot less/ [08:04] yes [08:04] usually though [08:04] but that is not really the topic for that Page [08:04] s/Page/page [08:05] I just mentioned what risks there were [08:06] there are risk for quite a few things; .xpi for firefox? that can break your profile as well [08:06] yes [08:06] my ff doesn't currently work [08:07] now it does [08:09] maybe mention that rar isn't free? Also that rar section doesn't look right. The 1st paragraph seems to be missing part of a sentence: "Non-password protected Rars can then be opened by right clicking on them and" [08:09] ok [08:09] they can? [08:10] we need a good spell checker in moin..... just noticed a typo for multiverse ("mulitverse") [08:12] HrdwrBoB: who can what? :) [08:12] I don't have a .rar on my system currently [08:13] robitaille: right click on a rar and open it with something [08:14] you should be able to [08:15] there was a bug for a while about rar. It must have been Warty. I don't have any rar file either. [08:16] I usually have one, but I don't [08:16] grr [08:17] https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8276 I think it is a Warty AND Hoary bug, but not Breezy [08:18] there is also a 7zip bug as well [08:18] 2.10.2 should be in hoary [08:20] http://anakinou.com/gallery/artsy/relativity_lego_lg [08:20] random link, for fun [08:20] I need to make a wiki page so that p7zip can be pushed into main [08:21] robitaille: yep [08:36] jsgotangco: pong [08:37] froud: pretty busy lately eh? [08:40] hectic dude [08:40] too many things all at once [08:41] got your message [08:41] I now owe you a response [08:45] oh i have been busy as well so its ok [08:45] but ive started on doing svn stuff again :D [08:46] yes I saw [08:46] i've discovered im more productive if i do little bits and stuff instead of trying to do everything in one sitting [08:46] edubuntu [08:47] yes, small bits each day [08:47] they quickly amount to allot of work [08:49] jsgotangco: is edubuntu ready for a make system? [08:50] no no not yet [08:50] there's barely anything there yet [08:51] k, it would be nice if we could have it on preview [08:51] when the daily build is usable i will start doing chuncks [08:51] other than that, its as unusable as ubuntu itself [08:51] huh? what does than mean :-) [09:00] i mean breezy [09:00] heh [09:02] jsgotangco: edubuntu docs now valid and well-formed. Also made xmlindent to make it easier to read the xml [09:19] hmmm? ok there's really nothing in it really just some structure lifted from the templates you made before [09:19] thanks [09:19] k must go now. later === silbs [~jane@217.205.109.249] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:25] hi folks [10:25] is there an easy way to turn http://tseng2.ath.cx/~ubuntu-doc/userguide/C/ into a pdf file? [10:26] I believe openoffice can do it [10:26] oh [10:26] except that is spread across different locations [10:26] i'm not sure [10:27] yes, that's the issue === jsgotangco [~user@202.57.71.236] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:27] hi jsgotangco [10:27] I was just asking if there an easy way to turn http://tseng2.ath.cx/~ubuntu-doc/userguide/C/ into a pdf file? [10:27] hey silbs [10:27] do you know? I was wondering if it was possible to pull directly from the repository or something to do that [10:28] well its possible to create a pdf on the source with a script but i don't know how to do the script [10:28] we've done it on styleguide [10:28] i can look into it though [10:28] but yeah, any of the source files can be a pdf [10:30] jsgotangco: if it's a hassle, don't bother. I sort of need it in the next 20 minutes or so, or not at all [10:30] let me check the make file if it has provisions for pdf [10:30] well, actually I think having that script available might be a good thing in general, but I only have an immediate need for it. Not a priority otherwise [10:31] xmlto should do it [10:34] i dont have that let me grab it [10:36] yuck it needs passivetex and it wants me to get 30MB worth of archives === rob^ [~rob@rob-ubuntu.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:46] anyone? [10:46] hey rob^ [10:46] hey jsgotangco [10:47] is there any way to make an xref tag work like an internal ulink tag? (ie make some text the link) === rob^ got his commit account :) [10:55] whoa [10:56] ? [11:16] silbs, hiya [11:17] i'm sure we can sort outa pdf [11:18] mmm... pdf === mdke reads scrollback properly [11:20] anybody here done a windows/linux dual boot recently? === mdke shakes his head happily [11:21] I need someone to cleanup WindowsDualBootHowto [11:21] as it is a mess [11:22] Burgundavia, what happened with the new user guide repositories issue? I noticed the page has reappeared [11:22] not resolved [11:22] I am waiting for the meeting [11:22] when is that? [11:22] 22 [11:23] I tend to bang heads and take names [11:23] ok [11:23] s/tend/intend [11:23] hmm [11:23] the tactful approach? [11:23] i dual boot at home [11:23] i am willing to give it a go [11:23] of course [11:23] I'm getting: svn: Commit failed [11:23] this MCP wants to have nothing to do with windows [11:24] svn: Aborting commit: '/home/rob/Documents/ubuntu-doc/generic/faqguide/C/faqguide.xml' remains in conflict [11:24] any ideas? [11:24] conflict? === jsgotangco loves dual boot systems a lot of people i know go 'wow' on that [11:25] svn commit -m +"a few readability changes" faqguide.xml --non-interactive [11:26] rob^, svn status might help, further than that I'm not sure what conflict means. It'll be in the docs tho [11:26] C faqguide.xml [11:26] from svn status [11:27] hmm [11:28] i have a 2 .mine files also [11:28] hmm [11:30] froud will know :) [11:31] i did an svn update before I started working on it. [11:32] i have 4 .r.... files also [11:32] whoa [11:33] I can force it to end the conflict with svn resolve, but I dont know how that will work out === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:38] ok, thats fixed [11:38] i just used svn resolve and rm the offending files [11:38] hmm [11:39] wow, blast from the past --> http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,11728,pg,1,00.asp [11:39] now I'm just getting authorization failed [11:39] rob^, :) === rob^ thinks: umm, so I need to set up subversion somehow? [11:41] I know I got an email to say its all good to go somewhere [11:42] rob^, you put the right user@password in? [11:42] in svn commit? [11:43] yarrgghh to many channels makes me want to curse erc [11:43] im switching to another client [11:43] rob^, it should ask you for a user and password [11:44] is that svn work? [11:44] just use esvn :P [11:44] hehe === rob^ looks for dam email with password [11:45] rob^, elmo's email will have an encrypted file attached, therein lies the password [11:45] ah === rob^ slaps head === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.236] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:47] head shoulders knees and toes [11:47] kind of annoying that evolution doesn't decrypt the email for you [11:47] but that all worked sweet [11:48] yay [11:48] yeah i hate evo [11:48] its a shame thunderbird keeps crashing for me :( [11:48] arrghh [11:49] this is silly i wanted to use xmlto and make a pdf and yet it wants me to download packages around 30mb [11:49] hehe [11:49] im almost done anyways [11:49] xmlto or apt-get? === mdke [~matt@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:50] dependencies of passivetex [11:50] ah [11:50] what a pain [11:50] in which xmlto is looking for [11:50] yeah for a PDF [11:50] heh [11:51] whoa i see a 'rob' on svn [11:51] hehe === Burgundavia needs to get his commit access back [11:51] dude [11:51] you've been saying that for months [11:51] heh [11:51] ya ya [11:51] you can use mine if you want [11:51] yeah [11:51] patch and we'll apply for now [11:52] too much work [11:52] the wiki is easier to work on until I get it bac [11:52] k [11:52] mdke, how many hours of sleep did you get [11:52] 6, by my count [11:53]