[01:08] <robitaille> Burgundavia:  it seems that mediawiki will be possibly packaged in Edunbutu
[01:08] <robitaille> there was a discussion about it earlier in ubuntu-devel
[01:10] <Burgundavia> yes
[01:11] <Burgundavia> ogra is making/finding packages
[01:15] <mdke> its essential for edubuntu
[01:20] <robitaille> but why mediawiki in that educational context?  is it a technical issue?
[01:21] <mdke> mark likes the idea of using wikis to prepare lessons and for children to take their notes
[01:21] <mdke> i think its a pretty cool idea
[01:21] <robitaille> I was under the impression that moin was easier to install to its php-less approach
[01:21] <mdke> robitaille, quite right. In fact there is a moin-desktop which is just a zip file, unzip and you're away, a personal wiki :)
[01:21] <mdke> it AMAZING
[01:22] <mdke> it/it's
[01:22] <mdke> robitaille, but mediawiki is the best
[01:22] <robitaille> have you ever played with tiddlywiki?  it's a personal wiki in one html file
[01:22] <mdke> wow
[01:22] <mdke> i'm gonna ping ogra about moin-desktop, just make him aware of it
[01:23] <robitaille> I use tiddly-wiki has a note-taking "application" at work
[01:23] <Burgundavia> mediawiki is far nicer to show content
[01:23] <Burgundavia> as you have play with css, etc.
[01:23] <robitaille> the big push at work these days is to have a wiki...any wiki...to help with our work.  Hopefully it will happen soon
[01:24] <Burgundavia> the only thing moin is better for in my opinion is that it can push more requests/second
[01:24] <Burgundavia> in the order of 10x more
[01:28] <mdke> moin has plenty of scope for css
[01:28] <mdke> even individual users can specify their own css
[01:29] <mdke> and css works in the pages afaik
[01:29] <Burgundavia> I find the markup in mediawiki to be more sane and more extensible
[01:29] <mdke> but yeah mediawiki is accepted as being better
[01:29] <mdke> its just you need to install more stuff, including php, and that makes a thin client setup a bit heavy IMHO
[01:29] <Burgundavia> all that would be setup on the server
[01:30] <mdke> sure i know, but the server might have to handle 20 thin clients
[01:30] <mdke> the less load, the better
[01:30] <Burgundavia> true
[01:30] <Burgundavia> mediawiki currently lacks developers, to be honest
[01:30] <Burgundavia> more exposure will help it find more
[01:31] <mdke> i've been trying to hack up the moin code to get the italian team's header on their wiki
[01:31] <mdke> its painful
[01:31] <mdke> instead of using html, it's in a python script that is converted to html by the engine
[01:32] <Burgundavia> ouch
[01:32] <Burgundavia> and what mediawiki calls templates are entirely too useful
[01:32] <Burgundavia> I have found no easy way in Moin
[01:33] <Burgundavia> dude, I have 10,000 edits on WP. I pretty much know all its annoying quirks
[01:37] <Burgundavia> like the page duplicating one
[01:37] <Burgundavia> that is quite annoying
[01:37] <mdke> i wasn't challenging your knowledge
[01:37] <mdke> i was just saying i didn't know the way in Moin either
[01:37] <Burgundavia> I sure there is a way, it is just not as simple
[01:38] <Burgundavia> moin *may* have more power, but they haven't made the common stuff simple
[01:38] <mdke> agreed
[01:39] <mdke> but for the purposes of edubuntu, it might be an option worth considering, especially if kids are used to the ubuntu wiki
[01:39] <Burgundavia> I would argue that more kids have seen wikipedia
[01:41] <mdke> sure
[01:42] <mdke> there is a mediawiki-like theme for moin ;)
[01:42] <Burgundavia> almost nobody changes the default
[01:42] <mdke> fedora uses moin too
[01:42] <robitaille> And how many kids have edited in ubuntu-wiki or wikipedia?  at the end, what matters is how you setup the wiki on your end, not how looks like in some remote sites that may or may not have been heavily customized.
[01:42] <mdke> Burgundavia, the default can be a custom one
[01:42] <mdke> like on ours (ubuntu)
[01:42] <mdke> anyway, they can make the decision, I've msg'ed ogra
[01:42] <Burgundavia> I don't find CamelCase intutive and I think most kids/teahcers would also find that same thing
[01:42] <mdke> i only want to make him aware of it, I'm not bothered about the decision
[01:43] <mdke> camelcase is not necessary in moin
[01:43] <Burgundavia> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12837
[01:43] <mdke> consider it an extra
[01:43] <Burgundavia> see my previous comment about default and not-changing them
[01:43] <mdke> ?
[01:44] <mdke> that bug reported started a thread on the mailing list
[01:44] <mdke> he is a good guy
[01:44] <mdke> he's mailed jerome in the past with some nice ideas
[01:44] <Burgundavia> ok
[01:45] <mdke> bbl
[02:01] <cafuego> AreWeTalkingAboutJavaFunctions?
[02:02] <Burgundavia> no
[02:12] <Burgundavia> this is cool
[02:12] <Burgundavia> http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1006
[02:12] <Burgundavia> thinking it should be something default for gnome
[02:16] <mdke> looks nice
[02:47] <mdke> anyone home?
[02:47] <Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=50591
[02:48] <Burgundavia> leaving now, sorry
[02:52] <mdke> ok bye Burgundavia 
[02:52] <mdke> nice spot on that thread
[02:52] <mdke> oooh
[04:36] <mdke> Burgundavia, erm... i've noticed you've deleted some wiki pages without removing links... this is _very_ bad
[04:37] <mdke> an example is Accessibility
[04:37] <mdke> you really really really should check all backlinks before renaming or deleting a page: this is essential otherwise there will be broken links all over the wiki. Check for backlinks by clicking on the page title
[04:43] <mdke> morning jsgotangco 
[04:45] <mdke> we have a linode server :)
[04:56] <jsgotangco> mdke, still awake at this time?
[05:00] <mdke> yeah
[05:00] <mdke> 4 am
[05:00] <mdke> damn ;)
[05:01] <mdke> jsgotangco, how are you?
[05:01] <mdke> we have a server
[05:02] <mdke> you pinging out again?
[05:04] <jsgotangco> no im fine now
[05:04] <jsgotangco> i'm down hommie
[05:04] <jsgotangco> just editing some edubuntu draft docs
[05:05] <jsgotangco> svn desperately needs love again
[05:07] <mdke> the ubuntu user guide is gonna need some serious lovin
[05:07] <jsgotangco> what the hell happened its like a ghost town here lately
[05:07] <mdke> seems ok to me
[05:07] <mdke> svn commits come and go
[05:07] <jsgotangco> no i mean on svn
[05:07] <mdke> i guess mgalvin and rob^ are taking a rest :D
[05:07] <jsgotangco> i guess a working X would also help
[05:07] <jsgotangco> :P
[05:07] <mdke> true
[05:08] <mdke> i am still working in hoary
[05:08] <jsgotangco> same here
[05:08] <jsgotangco> i think we'll need to profile edubuntu as well
[05:08] <mdke> ??
[05:08] <jsgotangco> since its going to have yelp and its basically ubuntu anyways
[05:08] <jsgotangco> me and ogra talked about it
[05:09] <mdke> profile it for what/
[05:09] <mdke> hey there jiyuu0 
[05:09] <jsgotangco> well i wouldn't want to rewrite some docs
[05:10] <mdke> jsgotangco, which docs were you thinking of profiling it into?
[05:10] <jsgotangco> we'll see...maybe i was rushing..
[05:10] <mdke> surely edubuntu is not gonna be that similar to ubuntu
[05:10] <mdke> given that it's for thin clients
[05:11] <jsgotangco> i'll just grab a daily build when its working already
[05:12] <jsgotangco> im gonna start reviewing docs later
[05:12] <mdke> i have to get some sleep
[05:13] <jsgotangco> i am getting worried and in 2 weeks it'll be august heh
[05:13] <mdke> feel free to write a docteam front page for docteam.ubuntu.com :D
[05:13] <mdke> otherwise maybe henrik will do it
[05:13] <jsgotangco> i don't have access to it yet but i can dump html
[05:13] <mdke> sure just sent it to the list if you do it
[05:14] <mdke> you can use the css from ubuntu.com i guess, just something simple
[05:14] <jsgotangco> then we'll just have to make a way to have jobs on our svn
[05:14] <jsgotangco> and move it to that server
[05:14] <mdke> hmm
[05:14] <jsgotangco> how did you do it with tseng's?
[05:14] <jsgotangco> or is it manually triggered?
[05:15] <mdke> building the docs?
[05:15] <jsgotangco> yeah
[05:15] <mdke> i've set it up already on the server :)
[05:15] <jsgotangco> what server?
[05:15] <mdke> just a cron job doing svn up and make targets
[05:15] <mdke> docteam.ubuntu.com server
[05:16] <jsgotangco> oh you mean d.u.c already has a working copy
[05:16] <mdke> yes
[05:16] <jsgotangco> wow so that means you already have root access?
[05:16] <mdke> i haven't written to the list because i wanna test it
[05:17] <mdke> well i recommended to henrik that we disable root
[05:17] <jsgotangco> ok so its all su then
[05:17] <mdke> the cronjobs are just run as a user
[05:17] <mdke> but yeah i've set up sudo
[05:18] <jsgotangco> so you just ssh to the d.u.c and do your stuff?
[05:18] <mdke> yes
[05:18] <mdke> well not d.u.c, the ip
[05:18] <jsgotangco> are you using an account with sudo priv?
[05:18] <mdke> the name isn't pointed there
[05:18] <mdke> yes
[05:18] <mdke> temporarily
[05:18] <jsgotangco> hmmm apache should then be mapped to a local user as well
[05:19] <jsgotangco> at least have the user public_html folder
[05:19] <mdke> once we're sure it works, we'll get a normal sudo-less user doing it
[05:19] <jsgotangco> an ordinary user would do for that
[05:19] <mdke> yes, that's what I mean
[05:20] <mdke> not sure public_html is needed
[05:20] <jsgotangco> i've done setups on 5.04 as a server it doesn't really take that much of an effort especially with apache
[05:20] <mdke> just an ordinary user making the docs and moving them to apache space
[05:20] <jsgotangco> sure its needed if its a multi-user and if we like to have d.u.c/~foo stuff
[05:21] <mdke> do we want ~foo stuff?
[05:21] <mdke> its an idea
[05:21] <mdke> for members you mean?
[05:21] <jsgotangco> sure why not but it'll be an overhead for sure especially if its a lot
[05:21] <mdke> hmm
[05:21] <mdke> its got 57 MB of RAM dude
[05:22] <jsgotangco> that'll mean all accounts will have /bin/bash/
[05:22] <jsgotangco> awesome
[05:22] <mdke> i'd suggest not adding anything unless its necessary
[05:22] <jsgotangco> well let's just test one
[05:22] <jsgotangco> no sudo priv
[05:23] <jsgotangco> just ssh
[05:23] <mdke> jsgotangco, my opinion is to only do things when there is a reason, right now I don't see a need for multiuser, but maybe in the future we can implement it
[05:23] <mdke> obviously we can add some more users, but multiuser apache might add to the load
[05:23] <mdke> anyway, i'll leave it to henrik
[05:23] <jsgotangco> well if you don't do multiuser at least for one more, that means anyone who uploads on that will have sudo access
[05:24] <mdke> jsgotangco, ???
[05:24] <jsgotangco> sharing the same account
[05:24] <mdke> jsgotangco, there is no uploading
[05:24] <jsgotangco> ahhh i thought there was
[05:24] <jsgotangco> err
[05:24] <jsgotangco> how do you upload the frontpage then?
[05:24] <mdke> i mean, there is uploading, but its not necessary for serving docs
[05:25] <jsgotangco> right right
[05:25] <mdke> jsgotangco, what we can do is set up a user on that box (e.g. ubuntu-doc) that will get the svn repo and build the docs there in its userspace, then move it to the apache directory
[05:25] <mdke> that user would not have sudo privs
[05:25] <jsgotangco> right
[05:27] <mdke> ok 4.30
[05:27] <mdke> sleep time
[05:27] <mdke> night
[05:27] <jsgotangco> alright sweet nightmares
[05:28] <mdke> :)
[06:50] <Burgundavia> mdke, gah, oops
[06:52] <jsgotangco> brb
[07:19] <Burgundavia> oh god
[07:19] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserGuideAddingRepositories
[07:26] <Burgundavia> anybody remeber when I posted that top things #ubuntu users want?
[07:33] <robitaille> difficult to forget...it created a long discussion after you posted that...especially because of your use of the word "crap" in that email :)
[07:33] <Burgundavia> no, not that one
[07:34] <Burgundavia> that one went to ubuntu-devel
[07:34] <Burgundavia> found it any way
[07:34] <Burgundavia> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2005-May/002273.html
[07:34] <Burgundavia> I believe the word was actually noise
[07:35] <Burgundavia> Seeing as I have the time, I distilled a the breezy new feature thread
[07:35] <Burgundavia> on this forum [1]  down to stuff that I didn't see on the UDU wiki.
[07:35] <Burgundavia> *Most of the thread is total crack* Here is the useful stuff:
[07:35] <Burgundavia> There, everything else on that forum is noise.
[07:36] <Burgundavia> robitaille, what do you think of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserGuideAddingRepositories
[07:38] <robitaille> it's the kind of thing I would do myself on my machine...but I wouldn't recommend to a new user.
[07:38] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:38] <robitaille> keep the page, but we need a big large blinking warning at the top with links to alternative methods
[07:38] <Burgundavia> and the page just got created
[07:39] <robitaille> and find out who the author is.
[07:39] <Burgundavia> jasoncohen
[07:39] <Burgundavia> he and I disagree on some things
[07:40] <Burgundavia> I am going to raise it at the New User Network meeting ont he 22
[07:40] <robitaille> is he part of the NUN thing?
[07:40] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:41] <robitaille> I have to go...I'll be back in a few minutes
[07:46] <Burgundavia> do we have a howto for installing .deb files?
[07:48] <thechitowncubs> i just made one up "sudo dpkg -i "debfile""
[07:49] <Burgundavia> right
[07:53] <jsgotangco> froud: ping?
[07:57] <thechitowncubs> i'm bored, any robot work needed?
[07:58] <Burgundavia> want to check over my newly done page?
[07:58] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FileCompression
[08:01] <Burgundavia> need a working copy of firefox for one section in the above doc
[08:01] <Burgundavia> under the .xpi section
[08:01] <thechitowncubs> Filecompression page looks great
[08:02] <Burgundavia> extend as necessary
[08:04] <robitaille> hummm... "Warning: Installing programs from .debs can seriously damage your system".   I'm actually a lot concerned by this than people downloading some 3rd party applications (realplayer, ipodder, etc), and seeing them blindly running the install.sh script that comes with them.  THAT can trash your system.  At least a .deb usually follow some guidelines and files will not be overwritten unless forced.
[08:04] <robitaille> s/a lot/alot less/
[08:04] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:04] <jsgotangco> usually though
[08:04] <Burgundavia> but that is not really the topic for that Page
[08:04] <Burgundavia> s/Page/page
[08:05] <Burgundavia> I just mentioned what risks there were
[08:06] <robitaille> there are risk for quite a few things;  .xpi for firefox?  that can break your profile as well
[08:06] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:06] <Burgundavia> my ff doesn't currently work
[08:07] <Burgundavia> now it does
[08:09] <robitaille> maybe mention that rar isn't free?  Also that rar section doesn't look right.  The 1st paragraph seems to be missing part of a sentence: "Non-password protected Rars can then be opened by right clicking on them and" 
[08:09] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:09] <HrdwrBoB> they can?
[08:10] <robitaille> we need a good spell checker in moin..... just noticed a typo for multiverse ("mulitverse")
[08:12] <robitaille> HrdwrBoB:  who can what? :)
[08:12] <Burgundavia> I don't have a .rar on my system currently
[08:13] <HrdwrBoB> robitaille: right click on a rar and open it with something
[08:14] <Burgundavia> you should be able to 
[08:15] <robitaille> there was a bug for a while about rar.  It must have been Warty.  I don't have any rar file either.
[08:16] <Burgundavia> I usually have one, but I don't
[08:16] <Burgundavia> grr
[08:17] <robitaille> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8276   I think it is a  Warty AND Hoary bug, but not Breezy
[08:18] <Burgundavia> there is also a 7zip bug as well
[08:18] <Burgundavia> 2.10.2 should be in hoary
[08:20] <Burgundavia> http://anakinou.com/gallery/artsy/relativity_lego_lg
[08:20] <Burgundavia> random link, for fun
[08:20] <Burgundavia> I need to make a wiki page so that p7zip can be pushed into main
[08:21] <HrdwrBoB> robitaille: yep
[08:36] <froud> jsgotangco: pong
[08:37] <jsgotangco> froud: pretty busy lately eh?
[08:40] <froud> hectic dude
[08:40] <venda> too many things all at once
[08:41] <venda> got your message
[08:41] <venda> I now owe you a response
[08:45] <jsgotangco> oh i have been busy as well so its ok
[08:45] <jsgotangco> but ive started on doing svn stuff again :D
[08:46] <venda> yes I saw
[08:46] <jsgotangco> i've discovered im more productive if i do little bits and stuff instead of trying to do everything in one sitting
[08:46] <venda> edubuntu
[08:47] <venda> yes, small bits each day
[08:47] <venda> they quickly amount to allot of work
[08:49] <venda> jsgotangco: is edubuntu ready for a make system?
[08:50] <jsgotangco> no no not yet
[08:50] <jsgotangco> there's barely anything there yet
[08:51] <venda> k, it would be nice if we could have it on preview
[08:51] <jsgotangco> when the daily build is usable i will start doing chuncks
[08:51] <jsgotangco> other than that, its as unusable as ubuntu itself
[08:51] <venda> huh? what does than mean :-)
[09:00] <jsgotangco> i mean breezy
[09:00] <jsgotangco> heh
[09:02] <venda> jsgotangco: edubuntu docs now valid and well-formed. Also made xmlindent to make it easier to read the xml
[09:19] <jsgotangco> hmmm? ok there's really nothing in it really just some structure lifted from the templates you made before
[09:19] <jsgotangco> thanks
[09:19] <venda> k must go now. later
[10:25] <silbs> hi folks
[10:25] <silbs> is there an easy way to turn http://tseng2.ath.cx/~ubuntu-doc/userguide/C/ into a pdf file?
[10:26] <thechitowncubs> I believe openoffice can do it
[10:26] <thechitowncubs> oh
[10:26] <thechitowncubs> except that is spread across different locations
[10:26] <thechitowncubs> i'm not sure
[10:27] <silbs> yes, that's the issue
[10:27] <silbs> hi jsgotangco 
[10:27] <silbs> I was just asking if  there an easy way to turn http://tseng2.ath.cx/~ubuntu-doc/userguide/C/ into a pdf file?
[10:27] <jsgotangco> hey silbs
[10:27] <silbs> do you know? I was wondering if it was possible to pull directly from the repository or something to do that
[10:28] <jsgotangco> well its possible to create a pdf on the source with a script but i don't know how to do the script
[10:28] <jsgotangco> we've done it on styleguide
[10:28] <jsgotangco> i can look into it though
[10:28] <jsgotangco> but yeah, any of the source files can be a pdf
[10:30] <silbs> jsgotangco: if it's a hassle, don't bother. I sort of need it in the next 20 minutes or so, or not at all
[10:30] <jsgotangco> let me check the make file if it has provisions for pdf
[10:30] <silbs> well, actually I think having that script available might be a good thing in general, but I only have an immediate need for it. Not a priority otherwise
[10:31] <Burgundavia> xmlto should do it
[10:34] <jsgotangco> i dont have that let me grab it
[10:36] <jsgotangco> yuck it needs passivetex and it wants me to get 30MB worth of archives
[10:46] <rob^> anyone?
[10:46] <jsgotangco> hey rob^ 
[10:46] <rob^> hey jsgotangco 
[10:47] <rob^> is there any way to make an xref tag work like an internal ulink tag? (ie make some text the link)
[10:55] <jsgotangco> whoa
[10:56] <rob^> ?
[11:16] <mdke> silbs, hiya
[11:17] <mdke> i'm sure we can sort outa  pdf
[11:18] <rob^> mmm... pdf
[11:20] <Burgundavia> anybody here done a windows/linux dual boot recently?
[11:21] <Burgundavia> I need someone to cleanup WindowsDualBootHowto
[11:21] <Burgundavia> as it is a mess
[11:22] <mdke> Burgundavia, what happened with the new user guide repositories issue? I noticed the page has reappeared
[11:22] <Burgundavia> not resolved
[11:22] <Burgundavia> I am waiting for the meeting
[11:22] <mdke> when is that?
[11:22] <Burgundavia> 22
[11:23] <Burgundavia> I tend to bang heads and take names
[11:23] <mdke> ok
[11:23] <Burgundavia> s/tend/intend
[11:23] <mdke> hmm
[11:23] <mdke> the tactful approach?
[11:23] <jsgotangco> i dual boot at home
[11:23] <mdke> i am willing to give it a go
[11:23] <Burgundavia> of course
[11:23] <rob^> I'm getting: svn: Commit failed
[11:23] <Burgundavia> this MCP wants to have nothing to do with windows
[11:24] <rob^> svn: Aborting commit: '/home/rob/Documents/ubuntu-doc/generic/faqguide/C/faqguide.xml' remains in conflict
[11:24] <rob^> any ideas?
[11:24] <mdke> conflict?
[11:25] <rob^> svn commit -m +"a few readability changes" faqguide.xml --non-interactive
[11:26] <mdke> rob^, svn status might help, further than that I'm not sure what conflict means. It'll be in the docs tho
[11:26] <rob^> C      faqguide.xml
[11:26] <rob^> from svn status
[11:27] <mdke> hmm
[11:28] <rob^> i have a 2 .mine files also
[11:28] <mdke> hmm
[11:30] <mdke> froud will know :)
[11:31] <rob^> i did an svn update before I started working on it.
[11:32] <rob^> i have 4 .r.... files also
[11:32] <mdke> whoa
[11:33] <rob^> I can force it to end the conflict with svn resolve, but I dont know how that will work out
[11:38] <rob^> ok, thats fixed
[11:38] <rob^> i just used svn resolve and rm the offending files
[11:38] <rob^> hmm
[11:39] <Burgundavia> wow, blast from the past --> http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,11728,pg,1,00.asp
[11:39] <rob^> now I'm just getting authorization failed
[11:39] <mdke> rob^, :)
[11:41] <rob^> I know I got an email to say its all good to go somewhere
[11:42] <mdke> rob^, you put the right user@password in?
[11:42] <rob^> in svn commit?
[11:43] <jsgotangco> yarrgghh to many channels makes me want to curse erc
[11:43] <jsgotangco> im switching to another client
[11:43] <mdke> rob^, it should ask you for a user and password
[11:44] <jsgotangco> is that svn work?
[11:44] <jsgotangco> just use esvn :P
[11:44] <rob^> hehe
[11:45] <mdke> rob^, elmo's email will have an encrypted file attached, therein lies the password
[11:45] <rob^> ah
[11:47] <jsgotangco> head shoulders knees and toes
[11:47] <rob^> kind of annoying that evolution doesn't decrypt the email for you
[11:47] <rob^> but that all worked sweet
[11:48] <rob^> yay
[11:48] <jsgotangco> yeah i hate evo
[11:48] <rob^> its a shame thunderbird keeps crashing for me :(
[11:48] <jsgotangco> arrghh
[11:49] <jsgotangco> this is silly i wanted to use xmlto and make a pdf and yet it wants me to download packages around 30mb
[11:49] <jsgotangco> hehe
[11:49] <jsgotangco> im almost done anyways
[11:49] <rob^> xmlto or apt-get?
[11:50] <jsgotangco> dependencies of passivetex
[11:50] <rob^> ah
[11:50] <rob^> what a pain
[11:50] <jsgotangco> in which xmlto is looking for
[11:50] <jsgotangco> yeah for a PDF
[11:50] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:51] <jsgotangco> whoa i see a 'rob' on svn
[11:51] <jsgotangco> hehe
[11:51] <jsgotangco> dude
[11:51] <jsgotangco> you've been saying that for months
[11:51] <jsgotangco> heh
[11:51] <Burgundavia> ya ya
[11:51] <jsgotangco> you can use mine if you want
[11:51] <mdke> yeah
[11:51] <mdke> patch and we'll apply for now
[11:52] <Burgundavia> too much work
[11:52] <Burgundavia> the wiki is easier to work on until I get it bac
[11:52] <Burgundavia> k
[11:52] <jsgotangco> mdke, how many hours of sleep did you get
[11:52] <Burgundavia> 6, by my count
[11:53] <jsgotangco> tsk not good
[11:54] <mdke> i had to get up to watch the cricket
[11:54] <Burgundavia> bloody sports
[11:55] <Burgundavia> make you fit
[11:55] <mdke> how much is that in real weight?
[11:55] <Burgundavia> about 60 kilos, I think
[11:55] <mdke> woa
[11:55] <Burgundavia> Canada is weird
[11:55] <mdke> not much
[11:56] <Burgundavia> kilometers for the road
[11:56] <Burgundavia> but we use pounds for food and weight
[11:56] <Burgundavia> and feet for height
[11:57] <Burgundavia> 145 pounds = 65.7708937 kilograms
[11:58] <jsgotangco> mdke, you mean the ashes?
[11:58] <mdke> yes
[11:58] <jsgotangco> i don't understand cricket but i seem to know the events
[11:58] <jsgotangco> more like people shouting
[11:59] <jsgotangco> i prefer boxing
[12:00] <jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia i heard same sex marriage in canada is already allowed
[12:00] <Burgundavia> indeed
[12:00] <Burgundavia> passed yesterday
[12:01] <Burgundavia> I live in a truly great country
[12:01] <Burgundavia> damn Spain beat us to number 3 though
[12:02] <Burgundavia> interesting how little debate the whole thing actually raised
[12:02] <Burgundavia> despite the country being fairly split
[12:03] <jsgotangco> whoa
[12:03] <Burgundavia> I suspect that most simple don't care
[12:04] <mdke> is it civil marriage that has been allowed?
[12:04] <Burgundavia> "how does my marriage affec the sanctity of mine" sort of thing
[12:04] <jsgotangco> its surprising how spain has done it despite being one of the original bastions of christianity but then spain has evolved
[12:04] <Burgundavia> and religous, if the church wants to
[12:04] <mdke> ah so depends on the particular religion I guess
[12:04] <Burgundavia> united church has already said yes
[12:04] <Burgundavia> they have openly gay and female ministers
[12:04] <jsgotangco> what is the predominant sect?
[12:05] <Burgundavia> United
[12:05] <jsgotangco> ahh
[12:05] <Burgundavia> protestant merged church
[12:05] <Burgundavia> followed by Anglican and Catholic
[12:05] <Burgundavia> but Canadians are seriously non-religous
[12:05] <jsgotangco> aren't the frech catholics to begin with?
[12:06] <Burgundavia> yes, but Quebec is one of the most secular parts of the country
[12:06] <jsgotangco> "baptized but not practising"
[12:06] <Burgundavia> the majority were only catholic because that was the dominant organization until the 60s
[12:07] <jsgotangco> i got to read somewhere years before, that a catholic church in france had to close down because no one was going and it got sold to a guy who converted it to a trance club
[12:07] <Burgundavia> rofl
[12:07] <jsgotangco> i mean church spirals make good clubs
[12:07] <jsgotangco> hehe
[12:08] <jsgotangco> here at home, churches are jampacked on sundays but majority of people are not really religious to begin with
[12:09] <rob^> wow, tv sucks tonght
[12:10] <Burgundavia> rob^, where are you that it is the night?
[12:10] <jsgotangco> AU
[12:10] <rob^> yes
[12:10] <Burgundavia> ah, crazy upside down people
[12:10] <mdke> rob^, cricket fan?
[12:10] <rob^> hehe
[12:10] <mdke> get the cricket on the tv dude
[12:10] <jsgotangco> i dont think cricket is that popular in AU compared to rugby
[12:10] <rob^> mdke, I dont mind watching it at the pub, but not on prime time tv
[12:11] <mdke> jsgotangco, everyone likes cricket in AU
[12:11] <rob^> yes, they do
[12:11] <jsgotangco> when i was in sydney, all we saw was rugby
[12:11] <rob^> wife doesnt though
[12:11] <rob^> and dont get me started on Harry Potter..
[12:11] <jsgotangco> haha
[12:11] <jsgotangco> Half Blood Prince!
[12:12] <rob^> also on tv tonight (live reading or some crap)
[12:12] <mdke> lol
[12:12] <jsgotangco> my wife bought that book
[12:12] <mdke> stick the cricket on dude
[12:12] <rob^> yeah, stuff the wife
[12:12] <mdke> for us, its the most exciting ashes series for years
[12:12] <rob^> mdke, pom?
[12:12] <rob^> umm english :P
[12:13] <mdke> yus
[12:13] <jsgotangco> do people who watch cricket on the field also dress on their best sunday outfit? :D
[12:13] <rob^> yeah, you might be in for a chance for once :)
[12:13] <mdke> Burgundavia, hey we're all friends here
[12:14] <rob^> haha
[12:14] <Burgundavia> indeed
[12:14] <rob^> nothing funner then watching yanks play criket and swing at the ball as if it was baseball
[12:14] <jsgotangco> lol
[12:15] <rob^> cricket ^
[12:15] <jsgotangco> a louisvilee slugger looks way better than a cricket paddle that looks like it came from a frat
[12:15] <mdke> only thing funnier is watching australia lose to bangladesh
[12:15] <mdke> :)
[12:15] <rob^> haha
[12:15] <rob^> yeah
[12:15] <rob^> that sucked
[12:15] <jsgotangco> and how come when i see zimbabwe play, they are mostly caucasian
[12:16] <Burgundavia> ZA is the same way
[12:16] <rob^> weard as it is, there are caucasian people that live there
[12:16] <mdke> the black guys are getting more involved in South Africa now
[12:16] <mdke> slowly
[12:16] <rob^> yeah
[12:17] <jsgotangco> i just find it weird though, but i haven't been to africa at all
[12:17] <Burgundavia> ZA is beautiful
[12:17] <Burgundavia> so screwed up and yet so prosperous
[12:18] <jsgotangco> ahhh perfect capitalism scenario
[12:18] <Burgundavia> driving from the brand new cape town airport to downtown cape town
[12:18] <Burgundavia> you go buy huge shanty towns
[12:18] <Burgundavia> with guard towers and 30ft fences
[12:18] <Burgundavia> s/buy/by
[12:21] <jsgotangco> i still like the ghettos of the west coast
[12:21] <jsgotangco> heh
[12:21] <Burgundavia> which west coast?
[12:21] <jsgotangco> US
[12:21] <Burgundavia> good thing I don't live there
[12:21] <Burgundavia> but mdz does
[12:22] <Burgundavia> we build drug smuggling tunnels here --> http://vancouver.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=bc_tunnel20050720&ref=rss
[12:23] <jsgotangco> "secret cross border tunnel"
[12:23] <Burgundavia> ignore the security prattle
[12:23] <Burgundavia> it is all about shifting pot south and harder stuff north
[12:24] <jsgotangco> bleah they should all move to the netherlands
[12:24] <Burgundavia> bc pot is better
[12:25] <rob^> hey, I heard something today about Ubuntu being refered to as Linuxxx, how does one get all those wallpapers?
[12:25] <mdke> rob^, ubuntu-calendar
[12:25] <mdke> but it has been inactive for a few months
[12:25] <jsgotangco> hehe
[12:25] <rob^> are there archives?
[12:25] <jsgotangco> yeah
[12:25] <jsgotangco> if you mean by the nude models
[12:25] <jsgotangco> not work safe
[12:26] <rob^> thats ok, I'm not at work
[12:26] <jsgotangco> rob^, ubuntu-calendar
[12:26] <jsgotangco> and just get the archives
[12:26] <rob^> yeah got it, what are the archives?
[12:26] <jsgotangco> oh just search for it its just ubuntu-calendar-january, etc...
[12:27] <jsgotangco> its not really a calendar to begin with 
[12:27] <rob^> yeah
[12:27] <rob^> does it just stick the wallpapers under the wallpaper chooser?
[12:28] <jsgotangco> yeah
[12:29] <jsgotangco> hmm hopefully those calendars are not downloadable in edubuntu...
[12:29] <Burgundavia> they will be
[12:29] <rob^> hehe hell yeah
[12:29] <jsgotangco> yargghhh
[12:29] <rob^> naughty little kiddies
[12:30] <Burgundavia> assuming ubuntu-calender gets built for breezy
[12:31] <rob^> hmm, no extra wallpapers are there
[12:31] <rob^> i installed all the monthly packages
[12:32] <jsgotangco> you sure i just tried it now
[12:32] <jsgotangco> i already got the old april calendar
[12:33] <jsgotangco> and downloading the others
[12:33] <Burgundavia> cool mediawiki stuff --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_of_the_38th_Canadian_Parliament_and_same-sex_marriage
[12:33] <Burgundavia> check out the numbers
[12:33] <jsgotangco> it would be a riot of Parliament would marry themselves for starters
[12:33] <rob^> there is four more, but they are all greeny-colored
[12:34] <jsgotangco> hmm the liberal backbench and bloc quebecois favor them
[12:34] <jsgotangco> hhe
[12:34] <rob^> what directory does it install them to?
[12:39] <jsgotangco> wow a very popular korean heartrob is in town
[12:40] <jsgotangco> hmmm strange i don't have them pics either
[12:40] <jsgotangco> hmmm is this firefox patch  equivalent to 1.05?
[12:41] <Burgundavia> 1.0.6, I think
[12:42] <Burgundavia> .6 was merely a fix for .5 borkage
[12:42] <jsgotangco> so we really didnt get .5 at all
[12:42] <Burgundavia> no
[12:42] <Burgundavia> Breezy did
[12:43] <jsgotangco> pitti is working so hard :)
[12:44] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:46] <rob^> they are all brown and stuff
[12:46] <rob^> is that all of them? 13
[12:48] <mdke> england is doing nicely in the cricket
[12:49] <jsgotangco> screw crickent i want nude backgrounds
[12:49] <rob^> ditto
[12:49] <rob^> is there only 13 of them?
[12:49] <jsgotangco> rob^, well they're official artwork to begin with
[12:49] <jsgotangco> rob^, it kinda grinded to a halt after april
[12:49] <rob^> yeah I noticed
[12:49] <Burgundavia> I think it was only for the warty release
[12:50] <rob^> jsgotangco, deviantart has heaps of good ones
[12:51] <jsgotangco> wonder who's idea are these to begin with
[12:51] <Burgundavia> sabdfl of course
[12:52] <Burgundavia> http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/07/20/marriage.canada.ap/index.html
[12:52] <Burgundavia> reading that, you would think that gay marriage was a big deal
[12:52] <Burgundavia> when it wasn't
[01:07] <jsgotangco> gotta go good night
[01:07] <mdke> night
[01:07] <rob^> night
[01:07] <rob^> same
[02:00] <jasoncohen> hi
[02:00] <Burgundavia> hey
[02:00] <jasoncohen> i saw that the multimedia adding repositories page was simply removed 
[02:00] <jasoncohen> i thought it was going to get integrated with the adding repositories page or left there with a link to adding repositories as it is currently
[02:01] <jasoncohen> but it was just removed
[02:01] <Burgundavia> the relevant things were merged into AddingRepos
[02:01] <Burgundavia> what do you think was left out
[02:02] <jasoncohen> how was it merged?
[02:03] <Burgundavia> I looked at the page, took the useful ideas and editing Adding accordingly
[02:03] <Burgundavia> if you think that existing docs have issues, then fix them, don't create duplicative stuff
[02:03] <jasoncohen> what exactly did you change though? the closest thing to a merge is the breakmyubuntu page which is hardly a howto
[02:03] <jasoncohen> it doesn't even give the lines that needed to be added to sources.list
[02:04] <jasoncohen> why not leave it the way it is currently with the strong warning
[02:04] <Burgundavia> manually editing sources.list is total crack
[02:04] <Burgundavia> and we should not be promoting it
[02:05] <jasoncohen> if it's the easiest method and a backup is made i dont' see the problem. anyways, they can always follow the adding repositories page like your link says. i even put up the screenshots to help users add w/ synaptic
[02:05] <Burgundavia> that is fine
[02:05] <jasoncohen> but for this particular purpose replacing the file is easiest
[02:05] <Burgundavia> but you are claiming that your page is for new users
[02:05] <Burgundavia> which is total crack
[02:05] <jasoncohen> it is 
[02:05] <Burgundavia> your page is for server installs
[02:05] <jasoncohen> new users aren't necessary dumb users
[02:05] <Burgundavia> new users use syanptic
[02:06] <jasoncohen> they can follow a howto that uses gedit to edit
[02:06] <jasoncohen> or terminal for a few commands
[02:06] <jasoncohen> what server user would need/want backports?
[02:06] <jasoncohen> it provides nothing server related
[02:06] <Burgundavia> jasoncohen, WE ARE PROMOTING THE GUI
[02:06] <jasoncohen> linux is about choice
[02:06] <jasoncohen> you can promote what you want
[02:06] <Burgundavia> the doc team is promoting the gui
[02:06] <jasoncohen> i'm simply giving the easiest solution in my opinion
[02:06] <Burgundavia> we run the wiki
[02:07] <Burgundavia> I don't want to be an ass, but it sort of comes down to that
[02:07] <jasoncohen> well, frankly you didn't merge anything
[02:07] <jasoncohen> you just removed it
[02:07] <Burgundavia> I have objection to a list of sources
[02:07] <Burgundavia> just not as NewUserAnything
[02:09] <jasoncohen> so, if i change it from newusers then you'll be fine?
[02:09] <Burgundavia> yes
[02:09] <jasoncohen> ok
[02:09] <jasoncohen> i'll do that tonight\
[02:09] <Burgundavia> to be honest, I want to kill the whole NewUsers thing
[02:09] <jasoncohen> heh, i pretty much got that from your attitude
[02:09] <Burgundavia> I don't think it is useful
[02:09] <jasoncohen> you seem to want to control the documentation
[02:09] <Burgundavia> no I don't
[02:10] <Burgundavia> I want to promote best practices
[02:10] <Burgundavia> as does the rest of the docteam
[02:10] <Burgundavia> I am just the one taking action on it on the wiki right now
[02:10] <jasoncohen> ok, well i was just providing what i saw as a needed service. if users could do it easily with adding repisotories they would have. they asked for a specific and easy to use howto and i've gotten no complaints from the howto. users don't seem to mind using a terminal if they have instructions
[02:11] <Burgundavia> those on #ubuntu maybe
[02:11] <jasoncohen> but i won't call it newusers- that's fine
[02:11] <jasoncohen> i don't really care what it's called
[02:11] <mdke> jasoncohen, perhaps you would put your excellent efforts towards improving the existing document
[02:12] <mdke> it is important for us as docteam to identify any duplication of efforts, and try and resolve it
[02:12] <jasoncohen> mdke, anything in mind?
[02:13] <mdke> jasoncohen, there is no need to make two documents on the same subject, please work on the existing adding repositories page
[02:14] <jasoncohen> i also don't reallyi get the "a grandmother isn't able to do this" argument for adding hoary-extras. it's really for users that want support for all their multimedia codecs
[02:14] <jasoncohen> mdke, i did- i added the screenshots for hoary + more description
[02:14] <jasoncohen> sorry, i have to go
[02:14] <mdke> jasoncohen, ok
[02:14] <mdke> jasoncohen, we will continue to attempt to eliminate duplicates though
[02:14] <mdke> integration and merging them
[02:15] <mdke> as I understand it from Mez, the new user guide is not intended to be new documentation, but rather links to existing docs
[02:19] <Burgundavia> morning froud 
[02:19] <froud> hi
[04:50] <kbrooks> huh
[04:50] <kbrooks> where did the tabs go
[04:50] <kbrooks> :/
[04:50] <Burgundavia> say again?
[04:50] <kbrooks> i'm on xchat
[05:18] <Burgundavia> oh geez the faq guide needs work
[05:30] <mgalvin> speaking of the faq guide, i am going to send an email with some new section titles as a proposal of what should go where and what it the sections should be called
[05:30] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[05:30] <mgalvin> unless, has some already made specific proposals?
[05:30] <Burgundavia> I want to slash the size
[05:31] <Burgundavia> I just sent an email to the list
[05:31] <mgalvin> do you have specific topics you feel should be removed
[05:31] <mgalvin> ok
[05:31] <Burgundavia> anything but the top 10 or so issues
[05:31] <Burgundavia> but I don't want to step on anyones toes
[05:33] <mgalvin> right, i am sure we can come to a consensus on what may need to be removed (possibely moved to a more indepth document)
[05:33] <Burgundavia> rather than work on what should be removed
[05:33] <Burgundavia> lets work on what we want the doc to have in it
[05:34] <Burgundavia> anything that isn't in that list gets removed
[05:34] <Burgundavia> we can start with my top 10 list from #ubuntu
[05:34] <Burgundavia> and go from their
[05:34] <Burgundavia> s/their/there
[05:34] <mgalvin> yes, i was think the same thing, just sort of the other way around
[05:34] <mgalvin> certainly
[05:35] <Burgundavia> the reason I turned it around is that I think it is easier
[05:35] <Burgundavia> more focused on the "positive"
[05:35] <mgalvin> agreed
[05:35] <Burgundavia> shall I create a wiki page for the respec?
[05:36] <mgalvin> sure
[05:36] <Burgundavia> ok
[05:36] <mgalvin> i will not send an email then, we can just collab on the wiki
[05:37] <Burgundavia> ok
[05:37] <Burgundavia> I will send an email to the list about the page
[05:37] <mgalvin> great
[05:39] <Burgundavia> email sent
[05:39] <Burgundavia> page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FAQGuideReSpec
[05:47] <mgalvin> for the dvd/mp3/other media section, i was thinking of 1 section called something like "Playing Music and Movies", its a more noob friendly title, imho
[05:47] <Burgundavia> yes
[05:48] <Burgundavia> universe and mulitverse needs a better title as well
[05:48] <Burgundavia> we could have a section called "Playing Music and Movies"
[05:48] <Burgundavia> with a subsection for each codec
[05:48] <mgalvin> exactly :)
[05:49] <mgalvin> i will add that suggestion to the wiki now
[05:49] <Burgundavia> already done
[05:49] <mgalvin> :P, beat me to it
[05:51] <Burgundavia> you know, pretty much every document I have looked at needs less words in it?
[05:53] <mgalvin> hmm... "Watching DVD's", "Playing Music - MP3's, AAC, and More", "Using Real Player", "Other Multimedia Formats"
[05:53] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[05:53] <Burgundavia> fix away the topic titles
[05:53] <mgalvin> fixing...
[05:54] <Burgundavia> Installing software?
[05:54] <Burgundavia> that can be the first section
[05:54] <Burgundavia> with a subsection about universe
[05:54] <Burgundavia> and multiverse
[05:55] <mgalvin> yea, rob^ had starting writing something about install software with synaptic and apt
[05:55] <Burgundavia> we need something really basic
[05:55] <mgalvin> and yes the *verse section still needs some cleanup
[05:56] <Burgundavia> saying: you install software with synaptic
[05:56] <Burgundavia> and here is how to add repos
[05:57] <mgalvin> ok, also, what abnout the gnome "Add/Remove Programs" app, isn't some work being down to make this useful
[05:57] <mgalvin> will it be in breezy, should we use that instead if it will work
[05:57] <Burgundavia> g-a-i should make breezy
[05:57] <Burgundavia> it is a google soc project
[05:58] <Burgundavia> and he is quite active
[05:58] <mgalvin> maybe we should use that since it would be more familure for m$ users, easier for them to adjust to
[05:59] <mgalvin> but of course also talk about synaptic
[05:59] <Burgundavia> hmm
[05:59] <mgalvin> i'm not sure if that is feasible yet, just a thought
[05:59] <Burgundavia> we can see as we get closer
[06:02] <mgalvin> sure, i'm need food
[06:02] <mgalvin> bbl
[06:06] <mgalvin> one thing i was thinking(reflected in my current choice of titles) is that currently the guide talks about installing specific software... many new users don't know what this software is, imho we should probably discuss topics based on the type of task being performed not (oh install libdvdcss2)
[06:06] <Burgundavia> yes
[06:06] <Burgundavia> that is why the spec is very task oriented
[06:06] <Burgundavia> ubuntuguide isn't bad
[06:07] <Burgundavia> for being task oriented
[06:08] <mgalvin> right, i am not saying that the ubuntuguide is bad or wrong, just suggesting that i think there are always more ways to be even more noob friendly
[06:08] <Burgundavia> yes
[06:08] <Burgundavia> the ReSpec already looks quite decent
[06:09] <mgalvin> i helped work on the ubuntuguide to, so i certainly am not going to bash it :)
[06:09] <mgalvin> yes, it is looking good
[06:09] <Burgundavia> anything else that Aunt Tillie might need?
[06:09] <Burgundavia> oh, printers
[06:09] <mgalvin> yup
[06:09] <mgalvin> ok, i really need food
[06:09] <mgalvin> bbl
[06:10] <Burgundavia> scanners usually just work
[06:20] <Burgundavia> anything else?
[06:20] <mgalvin> how good is the iPod support, do they just work, should we mention it in the guide
[06:21] <mgalvin> and how rythmbox works with em
[06:21] <Burgundavia> hmm
[06:21] <Burgundavia> ipod support has been getting better
[06:21] <mgalvin> obviously many people have them
[06:21] <Burgundavia> that might need a another guide
[06:21] <Burgundavia> we need an ipod owner
[06:21] <mgalvin> yes it has, i don't have one to even try, so i don't know how good/easy it is
[06:22] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WinningTheDesktop
[06:22] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WhatWindowsUsersWant
[06:22] <Burgundavia> we might have missed something
[06:22] <Burgundavia> menu editing?
[06:22] <Burgundavia> cd burning?
[06:23] <Burgundavia> neither work quite the same way as windows
[06:23] <mgalvin> smeg
[06:23] <mgalvin> serpentine
[06:24] <mgalvin> easier install know that they are in the repos
[06:24] <mgalvin> s/know/now/
[06:25] <mgalvin> so many typos, i use like 5 different types of keyboards, my hands are confused :-/
[06:25] <Burgundavia> serpentine and smeg are going to be default
[06:25] <mgalvin> so smeg is getting in to, cool
[06:26] <mgalvin> maybe a link to the wiki howtos
[06:26] <Burgundavia> for what? the guide or the spec?
[06:27] <mgalvin> in the guide, have a link to the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AudioCDCreation
[06:27] <Burgundavia> nah
[06:27] <mgalvin> although it is so simple now anyway
[06:27] <Burgundavia> AudioCDCreation references hoary and warty
[06:28] <Burgundavia> and this guide is only shipping with Breezy
[06:28] <Burgundavia> ok, I think our guide is done
[06:29] <mgalvin> s/Editing the menu/Editing the Application Menu/ ?
[06:30] <mgalvin> editing menu, what menu?
[06:31] <Burgundavia> true
[06:31] <Burgundavia> I have sent the post to the list saying the spec is mostly complete
[06:31] <mgalvin> k
[06:32] <Burgundavia> this should be fun to work on
[06:32] <mgalvin> yup :)
[06:33] <Burgundavia> so my plan is to get feedback for the next week
[06:33] <Burgundavia> on our list and at the NUN list on the 22nd
[06:33] <Burgundavia> and then get to working on it for next weekend
[06:33] <mgalvin> sounds good to me
[06:34] <Burgundavia> did you see my respecing the quick guide thing?
[06:34] <mgalvin> no
[06:34] <Burgundavia> went to the list
[06:37] <mgalvin> hm, thats sounds like a good idea, showcasing the shinny new stuff
[06:38] <Burgundavia> makes our job easier too
[06:38] <Burgundavia> less screenshots to take
[06:38] <mgalvin> yea
[06:38] <mgalvin> the "New Hotness Guide" ;)
[06:38] <mgalvin> sorry, watch MIB2 the other day :P
[06:43] <mdke> "old and nasty guide" can be the old one
[06:43] <mgalvin> ;)
[06:43] <mdke> nice work guys
[07:06] <Burgundavia> mdke, shall I create a wiki page for the Quick Guide respec as well?
[07:54] <mdke> Burgundavia, my view is that the quickguide should remain
[07:56] <mdke> maybe a separate "what's new" guide, if you think it would help
[07:56] <mgalvin> hmm, maybe have a New Features doc to cover the new hotness?
[07:56] <mgalvin> took the words out of my mouth ;)
[07:57] <mgalvin> maybe that could be included/referenced some how from the about ubuntu page that is the defaul firefox home page
[08:12] <Burgundavia> the quick guide really isn't useful, to be honest
[08:12] <Burgundavia> and we don't really need another doc
[08:12] <Burgundavia> jdub says that the current qg is mis-speced
[08:13] <Burgundavia> and mpt thinks that it is a not a quickguide
[08:13] <Burgundavia> have you seen the linspire one?
[08:14] <thechitowncubs> I haven't
[08:15] <Burgundavia> http://www.linspire.com/quickstart
[08:19] <mgalvin> kind of like the little booklets you get with mac os x or windows
[08:19] <mdke> why do you say it isn't useful?
[08:19] <mdke> i think it is ok
[08:20] <Burgundavia> it is currently a list of screenshots
[08:20] <mdke> i'm not saying a "new features" wouldn't be useful (release notes?), i'm just saying the quickguide is useful because it tells you what programs do
[08:20] <Burgundavia> basically
[08:20] <Burgundavia> not really
[08:20] <Burgundavia> and anyway, what a program does it not really what a user wants to do
[08:20] <Burgundavia> they want to complete a task
[08:21] <mdke> sure
[08:21] <mdke> but that guide is a starter to tell them what programs do
[08:21] <Burgundavia> but that isn't useful, nor is it a quick guide
[08:21] <mdke> ok well if you wanna make a new spec and a new guide, then go ahead
[08:21] <Burgundavia> our current quick guide is a mistake
[08:22] <mdke> i personally don't think we have the time or resources
[08:22] <Burgundavia> we do
[08:22] <mdke> faq guide is #1 priority
[08:22] <mdke> Burgundavia, ok, as I say, go for it
[08:22] <Burgundavia> doing the quick guide as newly specced will take less time
[08:22] <Burgundavia> or should I say, originally specced
[08:22] <mdke> no you should say newly
[08:23] <mdke> regardless of whether the original was wrong or not
[08:23] <thechitowncubs> I think the wiki should have like a search page like google or something of the like, extremely simple... ubuntu logo, then a documentation search
[08:23] <mdke> thechitowncubs, it has a search dialogue in the top right
[08:23] <thechitowncubs> I know that
[08:23] <mdke> what's wrong with it?
[08:23] <thechitowncubs> the search results are very jumbled and hard to read
[08:24] <thechitowncubs> and the title text search isn't very useful in my opinion
[08:24] <Burgundavia> mdke, the FAQ spec as mgalvin and I rewrote will not take long to write
[08:24] <thechitowncubs> it should just be one search
[08:24] <mdke> thechitowncubs, ok. That's a problem with the software: you can report it upstream on the moinmoin wiki
[08:25] <thechitowncubs> i'm just trying to find a way to make the documentation as useful and accessible as possible
[08:25] <mdke> thechitowncubs, sure, its a good idea
[08:25] <thechitowncubs> ya, it was just a light bulb in my head
[08:26] <mdke> thechitowncubs, we need it implemented upstream ideally though, because it depends on the software the wiki uses
[08:26] <thechitowncubs> i could try to brew something up but is there i way that i can search the wiki from a remote server?
[08:26] <mdke> best idea is to install the moinmoin software and have a look how the search works
[08:26] <Burgundavia> something like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=test+airport&go=Go
[08:26] <mdke> do you know python?
[08:27] <thechitowncubs> Burgundavia: not ideally, but more like this: www.google.com
[08:27] <thechitowncubs> except with ubuntu logo ;) and a doc search
[08:28] <mdke> thechitowncubs, i think you could achieve the result you want by modifying the way the current search tools are displayed
[08:28] <mdke> no?
[08:28] <Burgundavia> ya
[08:29] <mdke> search tools/search tool results*
[08:29] <thechitowncubs> i'm gonna think about it some more, i'll bbl
[08:29] <mdke> okies
[08:31] <Burgundavia> fonts just changed
[08:31] <Burgundavia> in F
[08:31] <Burgundavia> F
[08:31] <Burgundavia> due to the change to gtk 2.7
[08:33] <mdke> have we got xorg 44 yet?
[08:33] <Burgundavia> works for me
[08:33] <Burgundavia> no idea for a fresh install
[08:33] <mdke> is that a yes?
[08:33] <Burgundavia> it is a maybe
[08:33] <mdke> damn you... force me to lookup breezy-changes why don't ya
[08:33] <mdke> ;)
[08:33] <Burgundavia> which is an answer about as useful as our quick guide
[08:34] <mdke> we haven't got it
[08:34] <mdke> 43 is the last
[08:35] <Burgundavia> mpt, what is your thoughts on our quick guide. Should we respec to a what-is-new-in-breezy doc?
[08:36] <Burgundavia> http://news.com.com/IBM+steps+into+open-source+Java+project/2100-7344_3-5798290.html?tag=nl
[08:38] <Burgundavia> someone is trying to hide their pr0n --> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=50836
[08:44] <mdke> heh
[08:44] <thechitowncubs> lmao
[08:44] <mdke> seriously though the recent documents should be removeable
[08:45] <mdke> removing the whole places menu is a bit drastic though
[08:45] <thechitowncubs> is it?
[08:45] <mdke> :)
[08:45] <thechitowncubs> ya..
[08:46] <thechitowncubs> the recent documents isn't removable?
[08:47] <mdke> not sure
[08:47] <mdke> maybe it is
[08:48] <mdke> not to my knowledge tho
[08:48] <thechitowncubs> ok
[08:51] <mgalvin> its not removeable the "Application Places System" is all one widget
[08:51] <mgalvin> collectively the Gnome Menu
[08:53] <thechitowncubs> i'm drafting a doc search
[09:04] <mdke> thechitowncubs, you are sure the current search is not good enough?
[09:04] <mdke> i think it's pretty good
[09:05] <thechitowncubs> nothing is ever as good as it can be
[09:05] <mdke> true
[09:06] <mdke> but (especially with open source), normally the best answer is to improve what is there, rather than start afresh
[09:06] <thechitowncubs> http://www.thechitowncubs.com/ubuntu/
[09:07] <thechitowncubs> :)
[09:07] <mdke> looks good
[09:07] <mdke> now you need it to work
[09:08] <mdke> maybe you could have it search the forum too
[09:08] <mdke> :)
[09:08] <thechitowncubs> lol
[09:08] <thechitowncubs> good idea
[09:08] <thechitowncubs> it could also have a launchpad sign in
[09:09] <thechitowncubs> for the future
[09:09] <mdke> bugzilla, malone, you name it!
[09:09] <mgalvin> you know in google you can just do, "site:wiki.ubuntu.com dvd"
[09:09] <thechitowncubs> true
[09:10] <mgalvin> not menaing to but down your good idea
[09:10] <mgalvin> argh typos
[09:30] <mgalvin> thechitowncubs, would this interface be a part of the wiki?
[09:31] <thechitowncubs> I was thinking more a search portal for documentation, a one stop place for new users to come if they have a question
[09:31] <mdke> no it couldn't be part of the wiki
[09:31] <thechitowncubs> ya, i wasn't thinking of having it part of the wiki
[09:33] <mgalvin> ok, just wondering
[09:34] <thechitowncubs> there is a big problem with redundant documentation throught the ubuntuguide/forums/mailing list/wiki
[09:34] <thechitowncubs> this could be the solution
[09:35] <mgalvin> do you know about the NUN
[09:37] <thechitowncubs> New User ...something
[09:37] <thechitowncubs> not really
[09:38] <mgalvin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUserNetwork
[09:39] <mgalvin> they are wokring on trying to pull things together for new users, you may want to work with them too
[09:39] <mgalvin> there is a meeting for that team tomorrow
[09:40] <mgalvin> since you are interested in helping new users, you may be interested in what they are doing also
[09:43] <mgalvin> or not, i just thought i would mention it since they exist
[09:47] <thechitowncubs> ya, i would like to get to know some people
[09:47] <thechitowncubs> thanks for informing me
[09:49] <mgalvin> sure, np
[09:49] <mgalvin> the hang around in #ubuntu-nun