[12:02] <fred> but under Kubuntu, my machine (the CPU) collapses whenever I start my virtual machine
[12:02] <gdh> nikkia: Do you find that it 'forgets' it's been configured after a reboot and you have to compile the modules again?
[12:02] <nikkia> fred, my only real issue is that disk activity within vmware causes keyboard handling in the rest of the OS to go very bad, sometimes
[12:02] <nikkia> gdh, not with 5.0
[12:02] <fred> oh there we go
[12:02] <gdh> Ahh, a reason to upgrade :)
[12:02] <nikkia> gdh: used to have that with 4.5, but 5.0's only ever asked me to rebuild modules when i've upgraded the kernel
[12:03] <gdh> nikkia: Ah yes, it's 4.5 I have, not 4.1...
[12:03] <nikkia> gdh, altho the vmnet modules panic my hand-built 2.6.12.3
[12:03] <nikkia> but that could be a number of things :)
[12:03] <gdh> :) <diplomacy mode engaged> 
[12:04] <nikkia> gdh, the panic text suggests its a conflict between vmnet and the per-emptible kernel stuff
[12:04] <nikkia> altho, i haven't checked for vmware updates in months
[12:04] <fred> Vmware installs and runs fine, only that the Kubuntu does not seem to be able to handle the load
[12:04] <nikkia> but none available...
[12:04] <gdh> nikkia: Hm, the default 2.6.10-5-686 has CONFIG_PREEMPT=y set...
[12:04] <fred> I guess my best shot is to upgrade Kubuntu to the latest
[12:05] <nikkia> gdh, something might have changed in the .12 pre-empt tho
[12:05] <gdh> that's true...
[12:05] <nikkia> gdh, or it may just be vmnet building against the wrong kernel tree, i didn't look that hard at it
[12:06] <nikkia> gdh, my priority now is building LFS so i can get off of kubuntu :P
[12:07] <TestMAD> lfs?
[12:07] <gdh> nikkia: So why are you here? :)
[12:08] <nikkia> gdh, because i'm using kubuntu atm
[12:08] <nikkia> testmad, linux from scratch
[12:08] <TestMAD> kewl
[12:08] <nikkia> testmad, its about 10 steps above gentoo in the 'pointless waste of time for most people' scale
[12:08] <TestMAD> heh
[12:08] <gdh> LOL
[12:08] <gdh> I was in the middle of constructing a sentence like that :)
[12:09] <nikkia> however, if you're one of those few users that need a system tuned to a specific task, then it means there is no package system to be tripping over
[12:09] <TestMAD> i wouldnt mind a source install of kubuntu
[12:09] <TestMAD> but it looks like that will never happen
[12:10] <nikkia> testmad, you could do it yourself, its not that hard :P
[12:10] <TestMAD> really?
[12:10] <crimsun> it'd be kinda pointless and a time-waster, but sure.
[12:10] <TestMAD> a kubuntu install from source?? how?
[12:10] <crimsun> nothing's stopping you from doing it.
[12:11] <sproingie> actually i wish there was a source mode in aptitude
[12:11] <nikkia> bring up a basic kernel install, using whichever distro, install apt from source, setup apt's sources, apt-get --compile source kubuntu-desktop
[12:11] <sproingie> come back in a week
[12:11] <TestMAD> hehehe
[12:11] <sproingie> and find it's exactly the same as binaries
[12:12] <sproingie> separate compilation's a nice thing
[12:12] <TestMAD> i figure you would get more performance from a source compiled install than from an install cd
[12:12] <sproingie> gentoo's use flags are a pretty nice thing
[12:12] <sproingie> the rest of it's for ricers
[12:12] <sproingie> not really
[12:13] <sproingie> in fact a lot of riced up gentoo installs have shown to have *worse* performance
[12:13] <nikkia> sproingie: the reason i'm building LFS is because i need a system that is 1) tuned to audio use, 2) has gutenprint
[12:13] <sproingie> like people using -funroll-loops.  that's been a bogus optimization since the pentium pro at least
[12:13] <nikkia> sproingie: and replacing gimpprint with gutenprint is unimaginably hard :P
[12:14] <nikkia> well, replacing it properly
[12:14] <nikkia> you could just compile from source and make install and be damned
[12:15] <TestMAD> i need a a fellow themer to hook up with for a bit.
[12:15] <TestMAD> ive been reading how to theme kde..
[12:15] <TestMAD> its friggen programming
[12:15] <nikkia> to do it, you basically need to build gutenprint in a way that replicates the gimpprint packages, and tell each one that it replaces the gimpprint modules, and then force install them
[12:15] <TestMAD> i dont know any of that
[12:15] <nikkia> its not an easy task
[12:16] <sproingie> if it's a drop-in replacement, you can use equivs
[12:16] <sproingie> if you build it as an equiv, you should make it a package
[12:16] <crimsun> equivs should not be used unless a dire emergency
[12:17] <sproingie> er, what's the mechanism then that does all that indirection for sendmail?
[12:17] <sproingie> that's not an equiv
[12:18] <nikkia> sproingie: surely that still requires replacing the package structure, since you have to replace all of the various components of gimpprint
[12:18] <nikkia> and remember {,k}ubuntu-desktop depends on them all
[12:19] <nikkia> replacing=replicating
[12:19] <nikkia> oh, and it means building CUPS that is gutenprint aware :)
[12:20] <sproingie> if it's not a complete dropin replacement, it'll be painful to manage the replacement on any distro
[12:20] <sproingie> and debian is not the most friendly toward user substitutions
[12:22] <nikkia> sproingie: i haven't seen any sign that gutenprint is scheduled to replace gimpprint even in breezy, altho in fairness, gutenprint is still 'beta'
[01:32] <ubuntu> Hi everyone
[02:12] <livekubuntu> so quiet in here
[02:23] <_nikkia> as i was saying, i'm starting to notice an alarming trend with my networking problems :P
[02:23] <livekubuntu> what kind of trend?
[02:24] <othernoob> an alarming one?
[02:24] <epiloc> like bells and stuff?
[02:24] <_nikkia> livekubuntu: a trend in that the router falls over every time a dhcp request is made anywhere on any interface on my system
[02:24] <epiloc> oooh, fun one
[02:25] <epiloc> what kind of router?
[02:25] <_nikkia> as in, if i restart vmware, bang, if i boot my xbox, bang, if i plug in the network card on my laptop, bang
[02:25] <_nikkia> which sounds like...more than 1 dhcpd on the lan
[02:25] <livekubuntu> ouch, linksys?
[02:25] <_nikkia> livekubuntu: yeah
[02:25] <_nikkia> livekubuntu: however, i suspect vmware is the cause
[02:25] <pawitp> turn off that func and use penguin power instead!!
[02:25] <_nikkia> vmware installs a dhcp for each vmnet... 
[02:26] <_nikkia> pawitp: i don't have any machine atm with a guarenteed uptime to deliver dhcp requests
[02:26] <_nikkia> its one of the things that is getting migrated onto the shuttle that my boss is buying me
[02:26] <livekubuntu> I run a similar config to yours in one of my boxes:  WinXP + VMWare 5 + local nets with bridged networking, dhcp works fine
[02:26] <_nikkia> livekubuntu: are you running vmware on a linux host tho ?
[02:27] <_nikkia> besides, just because your config is right, doesn't mean my dhcpd's from vmware aren't leaking
[02:27] <livekubuntu> no, but I am considering the move right now (I am evaluating ubuntu as the host)
[02:27] <_nikkia> more than 1 dhcp server on a network WILL kill it
[02:27] <livekubuntu> nikkia, true
[02:27] <_nikkia> if my dhcp's are leaking to eth0 then it will be the cause
[02:28] <_nikkia> s/dhcp's/vmware-dhcpd's/
[02:28] <livekubuntu> then try disabling dhcp on your router
[02:28] <_nikkia> livekubuntu: i can't do that
[02:28] <livekubuntu> not even for a test?
[02:28] <_nikkia> livekubuntu: well, i could do that... i suppose
[02:29] <_nikkia> brb
[02:30] <_nikkia> hmmm
[02:34] <livekubuntu> anyhow, my original question was that, if anyone was running VMWare on ubuntu-AMD64, couldn't find much on the forums
[02:39] <_nikkia> well its definitely the linksys dhcpd
[02:41] <livekubuntu> WRT54x?
[02:41] <_nikkia> BEFW11S4
[02:41] <_nikkia> the DoS dhcp attack is supposed to be fixed in this firmware tho
[02:42] <livekubuntu> only reason why I ask is because I had a problem with the latest 'official' firmware for mine and one of the symptoms were random reboots or 100% packet losses
[02:42] <_nikkia> now for the real test...
[02:44] <livekubuntu> if you have logging on your router, turn it on, might show you what's going on
[02:45] <_nikkia> i'm just going to leave my desktop running dhcpd for a week, and hope i don't need to boot into windows before i get the PC i'm aiming to be the server
[02:46] <_nikkia> of course, knowing my boss that could be 3 months from now
[02:46] <livekubuntu> you could also.... set static ips....
[02:47] <_nikkia> i could, but its too much hassle
[02:49] <livekubuntu> wow, KVIrc is pretty
[02:49] <nikkia> more than that, its configurable :P
[02:50] <livekubuntu> maybe I should try it, feel like an ugly duckling with Konversation
[02:58] <nikkia> right, thats enough compiling stuff for one day
[03:00] <cies> hi all
[03:00] <cies> i want to install some -dev packs
[03:00] <cies> to do some devving
[03:01] <cies> but they fail?
[03:01] <cies> how come?
[03:03] <aarcane> Hi
[03:03] <cies> hi
[03:03] <cies> aarcane: i have a Q
[03:03] <cies> i want to install some kde*-dev packs but they all fail
[03:03] <aarcane> I've got most of my KDE login themeing done, but I still can't get the default user selection screen to show up using the theme and colors I tell it to
[03:04] <aarcane> cies, what kinda error ?
[03:04] <cies> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[03:04] <cies>   kdelibs4-dev: Depends: libarts1-dev (>= 1.4.0) but it is not going to be installed
[03:04] <cies>                 Depends: libaspell-dev but it is not going to be installed
[03:04] <cies>                 Depends: libbz2-dev... etc.
[03:04] <livekubuntu> install by hand?
[03:04] <aarcane> sudo apt-get install libarts1-dev
[03:05] <cies> aarcane: i have some 'extra' entries in my sources.list
[03:05] <aarcane> cies, then get rid of them
[03:05] <livekubuntu> oh, sudo, my eyes...
[03:05] <aarcane> livekubuntu, I hear ya there..  but from what I hear, it's the ubuntu way
[03:06] <aarcane> livekubuntu, I've heard some nasty things since I came to kubuntu..  it definately follows the Windows security model...
[03:07] <aseigo> hm?
[03:07] <livekubuntu> well, there's BSD + jail..., don't think Ubuntu is much diff from most distros
[03:07] <cies> is there a way of forcing apt-get (no right?)
[03:07] <cies> aseigo: you also on kubuntu?
[03:07] <aarcane> cies, you don't want to
[03:08] <aseigo> cies: my laptop is suse, but i have a couple kubuntu boxes here
[03:08] <livekubuntu> kubuntu 64, yeah baby
[03:08] <aarcane> aseigo, sudo + no root password = baaaaad
[03:08] <cies> aseigo: how cute, a nice couple
[03:08] <aseigo> aarcane: pffft
[03:08] <aseigo> aarcane: the only annoyance is if you mess up your sudoers file badly
[03:08] <aarcane> aseigo, or if you let someone untrusted on your laptop
[03:09] <stryg> helloes everybody
[03:09] <cies> aseigo: my main anoyance is teh extra 'sudo ' all the time (that i also keep forgetting now and then)
[03:09] <stryg> first time on kubuntu!
[03:09] <aseigo> aarcane: you mean if you let someone untrusted on your laptop after you just sudo'd within the last N minutes and didn't close that terminal session (or graphical session)
[03:09] <aarcane> aseigo, first thing I do when I install anything is set a nasty wicked root password I won't forget..  now..  having unlimited free sudo is a good way to not have to enter it..
[03:10] <aseigo> cies: `udo su -` if you want =)
[03:10] <cies> kleva'
[03:10] <aseigo> aarcane: you think that really helps anything? just use a decent password for your user
[03:10] <aseigo> aarcane: passwordless root is not less secure IMO, and on multiuser systems MORE secure
[03:11] <aseigo> well, at least as long as you enforce a decent password policy ;)
[03:11] <aarcane> aseigo, I have a good one..  but on most distros I don't even use sudo, just use su -
[03:11] <cies> but i still have my devvin problem...
[03:11] <aarcane> cies, then install the dev packages by hand
[03:11] <cies> it all seems to hang on a libogg-dev pack
[03:11] <cies> aarcane: what do you mena by by hand
[03:12] <livekubuntu> just use ports, make install ...
[03:12] <cies> wget, dpkg -i
[03:12] <aarcane> cies, then sudo su - -c libogg-dev
[03:12] <cies> huh?
[03:13] <aarcane> cies, type everything exactly as is from the sudo to the point where I hit enter
[03:13] <cies> i did
[03:14] <cies> -su: libogg-dev: command not found
[03:14] <aarcane> erm..
[03:14] <aarcane> cies, then sudo su - -c apt-get install libogg-dev
[03:14] <aseigo> apt-get install libogg-dev
[03:14] <aseigo> heh
[03:14] <aseigo> or just:
[03:14] <aseigo> sudo apt-get install libogg-dev
[03:15] <cies> then i get
[03:15] <cies> ] The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[03:15] <cies>   libogg-dev: Depends: libogg0 (= 1.1.2-0ubuntu1) but 1.1.2-1 is to be installed
[03:15] <cies> that is the whole problem
[03:15] <cies> as i told i have mixed my install a bit with a demuni source
[03:16] <livekubuntu> cies, just wondering, have you tried just using Kynaptic?
[03:16] <cies> maybe that phucks it up
[03:16] <cies> livekubuntu: i did, why?
[03:16] <aarcane> well..  I was going to put him into a sudo su - shell and have him apt-get install libogg-dev, but changed my mind, and was too lazy to edit it
[03:16] <livekubuntu> just wondering, I tend to use the path of least resistance
[03:17] <aarcane> cies, three quarters finished at least!
[03:18] <cies> why do i need to install alllll these -dev packs if i just want to hack on kopete?
[03:19] <aarcane> cies, sudo apt-get install libogg0=1.1.2-0ubuntu1 ?
[03:19] <aarcane> cies, the dependancies of it all
[03:19] <cies> wack
[03:19] <livekubuntu> but overall is more an endemic Linux problem, pkg hell, BSD ports and now portage do a better job than apt-get, rpms... IMHO
[03:19] <cies> that didit
[03:19] <cies> i think
[03:21] <aseigo> cies: it requires the header files of libraries it links to, obviously =)
[03:21] <cies> yeah, i know
[03:21] <cies> but will it go alll the way down?
[03:21] <aseigo> livekubuntu: ports and portage are more flexible, but have their own set of annoyances =)
[03:22] <aseigo> cies: all the way down to what?
[03:22] <aarcane> livekubuntu, I agree that Portage does a kickass job, but it has one fatal flaw..  and that's that for most instances, USE flags are unnesecary....  most people use the same CFLAGS, and the last little bit.....  It forces everyone to recompile basically the same binaries when 90% of the crashfree optimization comes from CPU specific instructionsets instead of -funroll-loops and -fomit-instructions 
[03:22] <cies> i compile a kde app, will it see the headres of libogg?
[03:22] <aarcane> cies, most likely it will in include hell :)
[03:23] <livekubuntu> aseigo, aarcane, agreed, still think they are better than what most distros offer
[03:23] <aarcane> livekubuntu, only reason I prefer (k)ubuntu over gentoo for my girlfriend is she's not programming and as such, it just bloody works
[03:24] <livekubuntu> also, in the case of BSD, it is rare to find a broken port, and there are soooo many
[03:25] <aarcane> cies, like I said, on a  multiuser system, I'd rather have the administrator the only one allowed to log in as root than let all everyone sudo su - in and do whatever they want..  if I set up some apps for my kids and didn't want them getting to "sex" or /media/porn, I wouldn't want them to have root access...  make sense ?
[03:25] <livekubuntu> aarcane, I have no choice but kubuntu, ONLY 64bit distro that is rock solid on my laptop (R3000+), yeah and I tried FBSD 5.x and even the unstable 6.x branches, for some reason it does better than flat Debian
[03:26] <cies> aarcane: yups
[03:26] <aarcane> livekubuntu, tried gentoo yet ?
[03:26] <livekubuntu> aarcane, TRUE, sudo *is* evil
[03:26] <cies> aarcane: but please mind i was never talking about rootacces for kids before
[03:26] <aarcane> aseigo, what I said to cies above was for you by the way...
[03:26] <aarcane> cies, i meant to say it to aseigo 
[03:26] <livekubuntu> aarcane, yes, tried it, don't want to kill my 5400rpm 2.5 drive yet
[03:27] <aarcane> I fried my drive a few times using Gentoo..
[03:28] <aarcane> well..  to be more specific, hdparm, but still
[03:28] <aseigo> aarcane: who said you add all users to sudo?
[03:28] <livekubuntu> even gave gobolinux a spin, weird little distro, but not bad, maybe in a few more releases
[03:28] <aarcane> aseigo, it's the default in kubuntu, isn't it ?
[03:28] <aseigo> aarcane: that's not the point of the way ubuntu does it =) you have an admin group, the first user added is added to it automatically for fairly obvious reasons, but you don't have to add everyone =)
[03:29] <aarcane> aseigo, aha, I guess that makes a bit of sense, but still I prefer to have a root password over using user passwords..
[03:29] <aarcane> aseigo, I'd go a long way to increase security beyond just letting one group sudo
[03:29] <aseigo> aarcane: the nice thing is that if you want to revoke root access to someone, you don't have to change the password for everyone
[03:30] <aarcane> aseigo, too true
[03:30] <aseigo> aarcane: well, you can if you want.
[03:30] <aseigo> (have various sudo groups)
[03:30] <aseigo> this is just the default.. sort of a happy medium
[03:30] <aarcane> aseigo, yeah..  the way kubuntu does it now ain't too bad, but root still needs a bloody good password..
[03:30] <cies> isnt there an option to have apt-get automagically downgrade all it needs to downgrade in order to install what i ask
[03:31] <livekubuntu> cies, dude, thought you wanted full manual power ;)
[03:31] <aarcane> cies, sudo apt-get downgrade && sudo apt-get dist-downgrade ?
[03:32] <aarcane> cies, should take you back to version 0.0.0-0 of every app and a bare drive
[03:32] <thoreauputic> aarcane: erm... I hope that was intended as a joke
[03:32] <cies> thanks for beeing so responsively helpfull guys
[03:32] <cies> its really appreciated
[03:32] <aarcane> thoreauputic, it was in fact.  how'd you guess ?
[03:33] <aarcane> damnit, I hate when my girlfriend is at work..
[03:33] <thoreauputic> aarcane: :) I've seen that kind of thing suggested seriously, believe it or not
[03:33] <aarcane> I always have issues with the power cord not getting plugged back in
[03:33] <aarcane> thoreauputic, lol, wow..  newbies ?
[03:33] <livekubuntu> aarcane, it is that annoying extra pin, shave it off
[03:34] <aarcane> cies, lol, DUH!
[03:34] <thoreauputic> aarcane: well, yeah.... either that or people who know, just trolling ;)
[03:34] <cies> aarcane: and i carefully interpreted the error message
[03:34] <livekubuntu> that is the thing with the BSDs too, great Handbooks!
[03:34] <livekubuntu> we need to get to that point
[03:34] <aarcane> thoreauputic, a bit of both..  though it was meant as sincere humor, I have a bad habit of making too many snotty sarcastic jokes without meaning too
[03:35] <cies> aarcane: hmmm... 'invalid operation'... maybe i made a mistake
[03:35] <aarcane> cies, there is no downgrade or dist-downgrade..  it was a bad joke
[03:35] <cies> aarcane: no it was a bad one
[03:35] <cies> wasnt
[03:35] <cies> i had to lagh
[03:36] <aarcane> livekubuntu, I actually just forget to plug the wire in..  she usually reminds me
[03:36] <thoreauputic> aarcane: write a script that responds to dist-downgrade by automagically installing win XP 
[03:36] <thoreauputic> ;)
[03:36] <cies> but i remain irritated with the difficulty i have with getting it working
[03:37] <cies> enough for today... gotta sleep
[03:37] <aarcane> sleep well cies, and when you wake the sod up, gut luck :)
[03:37] <aseigo> cies: g'nite man
[03:37] <cies> ;)
[03:37] <livekubuntu> nites cies
[03:37] <aarcane> thoreauputic, good idea..  too bad it wouldn't quite work >,.,<
[03:38] <aarcane> could install redhat maybe..
[03:38] <thoreauputic> aarcane: heh - hence "automagically " ;-)
[03:38] <aarcane> fedora core..
[03:38] <aarcane> mandrake anyone ?
[03:38] <thoreauputic> heheh
[03:40] <livekubuntu> haven't tried it sice 10, spiffy, and UNSTABLE
[03:41] <stibby> mandrake sucks
[03:41] <livekubuntu> nice desktop theme though
[03:41] <livekubuntu> and installer
[03:42] <gdh> wow, irrelevant and irrelevant :)
[03:42] <aarcane> heh
[03:42] <aarcane> I like the themes I made for kubuntu for my girlfriend
[03:42] <gdh> go for three and win a prize ;)
[03:42] <livekubuntu> gdh, hey trying to find something positive about it
[03:43] <gdh> livekubuntu: It keeps some French people in a job? :)
[03:43] <livekubuntu> mostly marketroids I'd guess: "Mandriva"
[03:43] <TestMAD> wheres a good place to go to start learning to theme kde?
[03:45] <aarcane> TestMAD, I only do colors for it..  ascared to start into pixmapping..  I themed for xfwm4 for a while, and lost way too many nights of sleep
[03:46] <livekubuntu> I leave my desktop plain vinilla, only parts I obsesse about are decorations and backdrops (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/20894337/)
[03:46] <TestMAD> ok..well..im a litestep themer.and was hopin to apply y talent to kde.
[03:46] <TestMAD> freeekie dude
[03:47] <livekubuntu> nice girls don't press charges
[03:47] <aarcane> lol
[03:48] <aarcane> I'm on my girlfriend's laptop, so I have to stare at a picture of me all day, and all everything is pink..
[03:48] <TestMAD> heh
[03:48] <livekubuntu> aarcane, oh, no!, need a link to the nearest Hello Kitty! SVG iconset?
[03:49] <aarcane> I don't really mind..  I'm actually going to spraypaint the case pink for her
[03:49] <aarcane> livekubuntu, oooh, nice, she likes hello kitty :D
[03:49] <TestMAD> my daughter likes hello kitty
[03:50] <aarcane> only issue I'm having with making all everything pink is I can't get the login screen to go pink yet..  it's pink after we log in, but the login screen itsself isn't pink
[03:51] <aarcane> I disabled the kubuntu theme so it's just the KDE userlist with prompt and stuff
[03:52] <TestMAD> yea..with the way kde looked..i was hopin there would be some really nice themes for it..but i guess i was wrong
[03:52] <aarcane> TestMAD, there are
[03:53] <aarcane> TestMAD, but there are more for gnome and GTK
[03:53] <livekubuntu> stupid Konqueror is frozen
[03:53] <TestMAD> i havent found any that made me go "oooooo...look at that"
[03:53] <aarcane> TestMAD, in all honesty, KDE is a windows replacement, and gnome is more for the less loosely knit artiste type
[03:53] <TestMAD> ive been considering enlightenment
[03:53] <TestMAD> its more like LS
[03:54] <aarcane> LS ?
[03:54] <TestMAD> litestep
[03:54] <TestMAD> windows shell replacement
[03:54] <aarcane> aha
[03:54] <aarcane> livekubuntu, were you serious about those icons ?
[03:55] <livekubuntu> aarcane, yeah, I was sure I had seen them a while back either at iconcity or kde-look.org
[03:55] <livekubuntu> can't find them now
[03:55] <livekubuntu> not my cup of tea
[03:55] <livekubuntu> there's just too much junk on those sites to browse through
[04:03] <livekubuntu> I give up
[04:04] <livekubuntu> plus got too distracted by a girl who's offering oral for a powerbook battery
[04:04] <gdh> <joke about a docking station>
[04:04] <stibby> o_0
[04:05] <TestMAD> hehe
[04:05] <livekubuntu> but if I were you, freshmeat is the place: http://themes.freshmeat.net/search/?q=pink&section=projects&Go.x=0&Go.y=0
[04:05] <TestMAD> www.desperatetekchiks.com
[04:05] <TestMAD> lol
[04:07] <livekubuntu> here's the link in case any of you has one of those batteries laying around: http://freebsdgirl.com/?p=566
[04:08] <livekubuntu> would hate to see the promise of good head going to waste
[04:08] <livekubuntu> I guess FreeBSD blogs are not as technical as they used to be
[04:10] <aarcane> I've got most of my KDE login themeing done, but I still can't get the default user selection screen to show up using the theme and colors I tell it to.  how do I make the user select menu show up in a custom color theme I made ?
[04:10] <kalenedrael> dunno
[04:12] <livekubuntu> aarcane, have you tried recycling X, alt-bkspc?
[04:13] <aarcane> livekubuntu, I have indeed, and have gone so far as to ctrl+alt+F1 --> /etc/init.d/kdm restart
[04:19] <paulo> does anyone know how to add calendars to korganizer by clicking on Konqueror .ics links?
[04:19] <seth_k> What happens by default?
[04:19] <paulo> it opens with kate
[04:20] <seth_k> try settings:/Components/ > File Associations
[04:20] <seth_k> and associate .ics files with korganzier
[04:20] <seth_k> s/zier/izer
[04:20] <paulo> at least in mine... I looked on the web and it said by default it should open with korganizer
[04:20] <paulo> I've been trying that , but I wasn't sure about the syntax
[04:20] <paulo> I tried just korganizer 
[04:20] <paulo> and korganizer 
[04:21] <paulo> korganizer \
[04:21] <paulo> hmm, I can't make percent signs here
[04:21] <paulo> korganizer {percent}U 
[04:22] <seth_k> i'll screenshot mine for you
[04:23] <seth_k> http://sethkinast.com/tmp/korganizer.png
[04:24] <paulo> thanks, I'll try that
[04:26] <gdh> paulo: Note %u - lower-case 'u'
[04:36] <paulo> still opens with kate...
[04:37] <paulo> well, it's not too much trouble to add addresses to korganizer
[04:40] <aarcane> god, it's hell to get a toshiba Service manual so I can disassemble a laptop and paint the sodded thing
[04:47] <livekubuntu> I'm outta here, it's decided,  Kubuntu does it for my laptop
[04:47] <livekubuntu> nites all
[04:47] <aarcane> later livekubuntu 
[04:57] <paulo> when I right click on an .ics file and choose KOrganizer, it goes to Kontact but opens ToDo List instead
[05:04] <seth_k> that's pretty odd, paulo. Have you peeked in KOrganizer's prefs to see if you can reset it to be the default handler?
[05:17] <doctor_salvia> ehh.. i can plug a secondary routers wan port to my first routers lan ports right? or no (sences approching flames)
[05:19] <seth_k> you want the uplink port
[05:19] <seth_k> sometimes that is the wan port, other times it's separate
[05:20] <seth_k> then again, my router autosenses, so all the ports can be uplink ports
[05:31] <ralph1> seth_k: Hi
[05:31] <seth_k> hi ralph1 
[05:33] <ralph1> seth_k: Just want you to know I think Kunbuntu Rocks!!!!! Just noticed that my printer a HP psc 1315xi JUST WORKS. it has never done that under Kanotix. I would always have to stop start, then disable and reenable it. This is cool.
[05:34] <seth_k> ralph1, great. Kubuntu has very good hardware support; only SuSE is better imo
[05:36] <ralph1> seth_k: Just to let you know the Kmymoney people are excepting your file. I will up load it tomorrow when some one is available to move it into the Source Forge repo.
[05:37] <seth_k> ralph1, cool :) thanks for doing the work on that
[05:38] <paulo> seth_k , I looked around in Configure KOrganizer and couldn't find anything about resetting handlers
[05:39] <seth_k> paulo, your next bet is to try #kde
[05:39] <ralph1> seth_k: On the other hand the Gramps piople were to be kind about it did not want it. imo Party Politics flared up. They came close to ordering me to remove yours and only using their deb.  I gave up talking to them at that point.
[05:39] <seth_k> haha
[05:40] <paulo> seth_k, ok, thanks for your help
[05:41] <seth_k> sorry nobody knew the answer, paulo :(
[05:41] <paulo> that's ok, it's not too bad :)
[05:57] <[Relic] > anyone that has done dual boot awake?
[05:57] <kalenedrael> yeah
[05:57] <kalenedrael> but i won't be for long
[05:57] <seth_k> I will, so fire away :)
[05:58] <[Relic] > just trying to figure out what I set for mount points for the 2 partitions that are fat32
[06:00] <[Relic] > basically they should be accessible data drives. the choices are /dos /windows and manual, but I want to make sure the whole drive is accessible but this is the first time I have tried this
[06:09] <MCCPicky> smbfs/init_mount: execv of /usr/bin/smbmnt failed. Error was Permission denied.smbmnt failed: 1 ( can someone explain this to me please?)
[06:11] <MCCPicky> using smb4k
[06:12] <seth_k> [Relic] , mounts should point at something like /dev/hda2, where the letter and number change. you can issue the command "sudo fdisk -l" to see all the partitions
[06:15] <[Relic] > so do I just label them /windows and /windows2 or do I wait till after it is installed and try to have it find them then?
[06:17] <seth_k> I think it'll have to be after
[06:18] <[Relic] > is the mount point just a directory label name for the partition?
[06:18] <seth_k> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomaticallyMountMSWindowsPartitions
[06:18] <seth_k> yes, it's just a directory you create
[06:20] <[Relic] > off to try this again  :)  thanks for the help
[06:26] <MCCPicky> ignore last post, i've fixed it
[06:44] <aab> anyone talking here?
[06:45] <aab> or not
[06:59] <_jose> hi
[07:00] <_jose> is somebody here?
[07:05] <_jose> hola
[07:05] <_jose> hi
[07:06] <arcanistherogue> hey
[07:06] <_jose> still there Arcanis?
[07:06] <arcanistherogue> yup
[07:12] <[Relic] > got as far as can't install grub bootloader this time
[07:18] <[Relic] > appeared to be working up to the grub boot loader fail
[07:24] <[Relic] > Lively as a graveyard :)
[07:29] <arcanistherogue> i know :D
[07:29] <[Relic] > trying to figure out dual boot isn't going as well as planned
[07:30] <[Relic] > I'll try it again tomorrow  :)
[07:42] <fagr> firestarter show that there is an active connection to a pc which i know is offline using Sun-RPC portmap is this a security risk?
[07:42] <_jose> some postgresql guru?
[07:42] <fagr> _jose?
[07:45] <aseigo_afk> _jose: i'm fairly knowledgeable when it comes to pgsql
[08:17] <darek> sdfsdf
[08:17] <darek> helo
[08:24] <nadjyla> Hello :)
[10:03] <berkes> anyone else having firefox crashing? 
[10:04] <berkes> after I dist-upgrade 'd it crashes witha segmentaion fault
[10:04] <berkes> strace gives no real answers either. 
[10:06] <berkes> it crashes only when I open certain dialogs. like the "look for upgrades"
[10:06] <berkes> why cant these fskers at FF leave the upgrading where it belongs: in the distro. >:(
[10:20] <ghetek> i want to make a user "administrator" be able to access /var/www/ from ftp, everything is working except that "administrator" gets access denied at the folder
[10:36] <Almindor> how do I set conqueror to open a new window each time I click home? (it opens a new tab right now)
[10:43] <Almindor> anyone?
[10:43] <Almindor> I've been trying all those setting in "configure conqueror" but I can't figure out why it uses tabs instead of windows
[11:05] <cloud> hi
[11:05] <cloud> someone can help me?
[11:05] <cloud> i have aproblem with samba
[11:05] <cloud> my xp client can't access to the samba shared files
[11:05] <cloud> it says "acces denied"
[11:14] <jubei> how come my monitor turns off even though "Enable dispay power management" is disabled?
[11:19] <Ashen> yoh
[11:19] <Ashen> what sort of app should I use for FTP in kde
[11:19] <Ashen> ?
[11:29] <ztonzy> Ashen, already got your answer ;) ?
[11:45] <incubii> awww man was hoping breezy xorg server would of had the fonts fixed by now for my laptop, guess i gotta wait some more too 
[12:17] <rem_> Hey just a simple question how do you open a tgz.gpg file ?
[12:19] <incubii> tgz.gpg file is more then likely the hash file to check if you downloaded the tgz file correctly
[12:19] <incubii> you would need gpg to make use of the file though
[12:20] <nikkia> incubii: its a gpg signature for the file
[12:20] <rem_> I downloaded the update of a program which was a 2mb tgz.gpg file --
[12:20] <incubii> well cant help you there as ive never seen a file packaged that way
[12:20] <incubii> maybe theres instructions on how to use the file on the site you got it from ?
[12:21] <rem_> i tried gpg --decrypt but it didnt give me anything .
[12:21] <rem_> I havent found any...but I guess ill google it ..
[12:22] <velko> rem_: what gives you [code] file myfile.tgz.gpg[/code] ?
[12:23] <rem_> The problem its that its for my firewall ipcop ...and i have to go through the hassle of disconnecting the cables etc, or connect through 56kb modem, so i figured id ask here first. I cant get any webpages through my firewall anymore .. :( Anyway thanx for help anyway ..
[12:23] <rem_> what do u mean with [code]  ?
[12:23] <velko> file myfile.tgz.gpg
[12:23] <rem_> this is the file i got: update-1.4.6.tgz.gpg
[12:23] <velko> it just separates the command that you have to run from my text
[12:23] <incubii> maybe ipcop has an update feature that knows what to do with it
[12:23] <rem_> yeah i just thought about it ..
[12:24] <velko> file is the command you have to run
[12:24] <rem_> i guess i have to go through the web interface and cant update it manually through ssh ..
[12:24] <rem_> which is broken, so im good to reinstall ... :(
[12:24] <rem_> ok ..thanx
[12:25] <velko> mann, mann, mann...
[12:26] <rem_> btw file gives this: update-1.4.6.tgz.gpg: data
[12:28] <cies> hi :)
[01:04] <martinjh99> Any of you guys package maintainers??
[02:46] <LuNaTiK^GuY> kdevelop is solely for kde apps? or is it a general c/c++ IDE?
[02:47] <jpatrick> I don't know
[02:47] <jpatrick> I use kdevelop3
[02:47] <jpatrick> far better
[02:48] <LuNaTiK^GuY> is kdevelop3 good for c/c++ usage?
[02:48] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and where can i get it from?
[02:48] <jpatrick> sudo apt-get install kdevelop3
[02:49] <nikkia> Oooo, real live people here for a change!
[02:49] <LuNaTiK^GuY> kdevelop3 is an enhanced kdevelop?
[02:49] <jpatrick> yes
[02:49] <jpatrick> for c/c++, ruby.... a whole list of languages
[02:49] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ok thanks.......andi can use it for any c/c++ programming?
[02:50] <LuNaTiK^GuY> hmm good
[02:50] <jpatrick> yes
[02:50] <LuNaTiK^GuY> even java?
[02:50] <jpatrick> hi nikkia
[02:50] <jpatrick> even java last time I used it
[02:50] <nikkia> hi jpatrick
[02:50] <jpatrick> :)
[02:50] <LuNaTiK^GuY> thanks a lot jpatrick 
[02:51] <jpatrick> just put that (sudo apt-get install kdevelop3) and you're done
[02:51] <LuNaTiK^GuY> sure :) i am downloading rite now
[02:51] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[02:52] <LuNaTiK^GuY> sure if i can avoid using netbeans/eclipse
[02:52] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'll do that ;)
[02:52] <jpatrick> :)
[02:55] <jpatrick> why?
[02:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> LFS :)
[02:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[02:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'm sure he is :)
[02:56] <nikkia> he??
[02:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> erm
[02:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> she?
[02:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> sorry
[02:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[02:56] <jpatrick> lol
[02:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> nikkia........how could i have guessed
[02:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i've got this thing of assuming that guys use linux lolllllllllll
[02:56] <jpatrick> the 'a'
[02:57] <nikkia> jpatrick: actually, that's because 'nikki' is already taken
[02:57] <jpatrick> :-o
[02:58] <nikkia> anyway, i'm scared because i don't know how untarring this LFS install to a freshly formatted HD is likely to work
[02:58] <nikkia> s/how/how well/
[02:59] <nikkia> i'm not very likely to break things, as i have a seperate 80GB HD i'm going to swap for the 60GB drive my / is currently on
[03:00] <LuNaTiK^GuY> nikka: how long have u been using Linux?
[03:00] <nikkia> LuNaTiK^GuY: since 1992
[03:00] <LuNaTiK^GuY> gosh
[03:00] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :(
[03:00] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'm such a noooob
[03:00] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[03:01] <nikkia> back when the kernel sources were only a few hundred k :P
[03:01] <LuNaTiK^GuY> how did u get interested in it?
[03:01] <nikkia> LuNaTiK^GuY: i was using sunos at uni, wanted a unix system at home to be able to get to know it better...
[03:02] <nikkia> so i was about to order BSDI for $700, but the owner of BSDI told me to look at linux because it was free
[03:02] <LuNaTiK^GuY> my uni is still freaked up on Windows :(
[03:03] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'm 19 now
[03:03] <LuNaTiK^GuY> going to 2nd year BSc IT
[03:03] <nikkia> he also pointed out that it was very very early in development, and wouldn't do everything BSDI would do, BUT would be cheaper, and as a hobbyist i wouldn't really need all the 'server stuff' that BSDI offered
[03:03] <jpatrick> i'm 14
[03:03] <LuNaTiK^GuY> only one lecturer likes me coz of linux.....
[03:03] <nikkia> at the time, linux didn't even really run X
[03:04] <LuNaTiK^GuY> nikkia: and u didnt hate it? :)
[03:04] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[03:04] <nikkia> LuNaTiK^GuY: it was better than DOS :P
[03:04] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i loved DOS...i could play games ;)
[03:04] <LuNaTiK^GuY> u know
[03:04] <LuNaTiK^GuY> Simcity
[03:04] <LuNaTiK^GuY> Gunship 2000
[03:04] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[03:04] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lolllllllll
[03:04] <LuNaTiK^GuY> Wolf 3d
[03:04] <nikkia> by the end of 1992, i had a LAN setup in the house i rented, with NFS setup so that the guy i shared a house with, who was very poor, could have file storage because he couldn't afford a hard disk
[03:05] <LuNaTiK^GuY> oh my god
[03:05] <nikkia> 10base2 cabling everywhere :P
[03:05] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ur really into it arent u
[03:05] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'm tryong to get the hang of things...havent gone past KDE though :(
[03:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i mwN
[03:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> with the guide
[03:07] <jpatrick> you what?
[03:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i managed to enable dma on both drives....got sound and video working
[03:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> *i mean ;)
[03:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i mounted win drives 
[03:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[03:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i installed the 686-smp kernel
[03:07] <jpatrick> I just let all hell break loose
[03:08] <LuNaTiK^GuY> jpatrick....which Kdevelop should i start?
[03:08] <LuNaTiK^GuY> there are so many
[03:08] <LuNaTiK^GuY> kde/c++
[03:08] <LuNaTiK^GuY> c/c++
[03:08] <jpatrick> the c/c++
[03:08] <LuNaTiK^GuY> etc etc
[03:08] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ok
[03:09] <jpatrick> the one you wish to use
[03:10] <jpatrick> Only problem...
[03:10] <jpatrick> I never managed to compile the code I wrote
[03:10] <jpatrick> :P
[03:11] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wow
[03:11] <LuNaTiK^GuY> this IDE include all the languages i need till now
[03:11] <LuNaTiK^GuY> Pascal, C,C++, Java!!!
[03:11] <jpatrick> :)
[03:11] <jpatrick> told you it rocked
[03:12] <LuNaTiK^GuY> except for C# which i'll be needing sometime...can't avoid it...since our Uni is 100% M$-Biased
[03:12] <jpatrick> I have a book on C#
[03:13] <jpatrick> never got round to studing it
[03:14] <LuNaTiK^GuY> its very similar to Java
[03:14] <LuNaTiK^GuY> actually M$ tried to clone java for themselves
[03:14] <jpatrick> I might do Delphi next
[03:14] <nikkia> *cough* Visual J++ *cough*
[03:14] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but had to change stuff when Sun sued them
[03:14] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i've hear rumours C# will be soon gone
[03:15] <LuNaTiK^GuY> Visual Basic will be the new major Win development language
[03:16] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i cant execute a program
[03:16] <jpatrick> that was my problem...
[03:16] <LuNaTiK^GuY> "/bin/sh: /home/andrea/bosit/year2/pascal/hello/src/hello: No such file or directory"
[03:17] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i get this
[03:17] <jpatrick> could write the code but not execute program
[03:17] <LuNaTiK^GuY> any way to fix it?
[03:17] <jpatrick> :-/
[03:18] <nikkia> almost time...
[03:20] <jpatrick> it's disappeared from the menu
[03:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[03:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i really need to execute stuff  lol
[03:20] <jpatrick> oh dear...
[03:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i mean
[03:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> every now and then i need to test it ;)
[03:20] <jpatrick> me too
[03:20] <jpatrick> you could try the command line
[03:21] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ermmmmmmmmmmm
[03:21] <jpatrick> I don't know how that works
[03:21] <nikkia> right, its time
[03:21] <LuNaTiK^GuY> gl nikkia ;)
[03:21] <nikkia> back in a few hours, i hope
[03:21] <dazza> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.4.0-0ubuntu3.3_all.deb (--unpack):
[03:21] <dazza>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/icons/default.kde', which is also in package knetworkconf
[03:21] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and sorry for calling u a male ;)
[03:21] <dazza> hi! apt-get is broken :( i've tried apt-get -f install, but get the following: 
[03:21] <dazza> the previous rather
[03:23] <jpatrick> are you doing dpkg?
[03:23] <dazza> jpatrick: no, that's the sub-error (i didn't want to paste the whole output)
[03:24] <jpatrick> do you have the .deb file or what?
[03:24] <dazza> no (well yes, it's in the cache)
[03:24] <dazza> the original command was apt-get install <something> (i think it was firefox)
[03:25] <jpatrick> sudo apt-get install mozilla-firefox
[03:25] <dazza> yes, i did something like that, but now *all* of apt-get is broken
[03:25] <dazza> i can't install packages, i can't do update
[03:26] <jpatrick> sudo apt-get update
[03:26] <dazza> i've tried that (it was the first thing i tried)
[03:27] <dazza> but every time i try anything like that i get the same error
[03:27] <jpatrick> what did it say?
[03:27] <dazza> oh wait, sorry, update works
[03:27] <dazza> upgrade doesn't
[03:27] <jpatrick> :)
[03:27] <dazza> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.4.0-0ubuntu3.3_all.deb (--unpack):
[03:27] <dazza>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/icons/default.kde', which is also in package knetworkconf
[03:27] <jpatrick> do update
[03:27] <dazza> i just did
[03:28] <dazza> same error
[03:28] <jpatrick> then try installing
[03:28] <jpatrick> apokryphos!!
[03:28] <dazza> You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these.
[03:28] <dazza> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[03:28] <dazza>   kdelibs: Depends: kdelibs-data (>= 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu3.2) but 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu3 is installed
[03:28] <dazza> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.
[03:28] <apokryphos> jpatrick: hey :)
[03:28] <apokryphos> dazza: add the new repository in /topic to get kde 3.4.1
[03:29] <dazza> apokryphos: i don't want to get 3.4.1 (don't want to deviate from official repos), I'm trying to resolve a package conflict
[03:29] <apokryphos> dazza: 3.4.1 is pretty official -- it comes form the kubuntu repository
[03:30] <jpatrick> yeah
[03:30] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i need help with executing programs from kdevelop :(
[03:30] <jpatrick> KDevelop3*
[03:30] <dazza> apokryphos: is it hoary?
[03:30] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :) :) i need help with executing programs from kdevelop3 :(
[03:31] <apokryphos> dazza: 'course
[03:31] <dazza> ok ta, i'll try it :)
[03:43] <dazza> ok i still got the same problem
[03:43] <dazza> but i've fixed it now with: sudo dpkg --remove kubuntu-desktop knetworkconf
[03:44] <dazza> followed by sudo apt-get -f install
[03:44] <dazza> (i hope knetworkconf wasn't too important... :)
[03:44] <jpatrick> remove kubuntu-desktop?
[03:44] <dazza> yes
[03:44] <dazza> it's a meta-package
[03:44] <dazza> at least i assumed it was
[03:45] <dazza> apt-cache show kubuntu-desktop:
[03:45] <dazza> It is safe to remove this package if some of the desktop system packages are
[03:45] <dazza>  not desired.
[03:47] <apokryphos> dazza: it is, yes.
[04:09] <apokryphos> Hehe, speak of the devil. 
[04:09] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i was just mentioning u nikkia
[04:09] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[04:09] <nikkia> ?
[04:10] <nikkia> well, i was delayed by 20 minutes or so
[04:10] <buz> anyone ever installed xen on ubuntu?
[04:10] <LuNaTiK^GuY> can xen be used to run windows?
[04:10] <nikkia> i had forgotten to include promise support in my kernel, thus it couldn't find /
[04:10] <buz> LuNaTiK^GuY: not so far
[04:10] <apokryphos> heh
[04:10] <buz> not the official version anyway
[04:10] <apokryphos> nikkia: how's it going so far, btw?
[04:10] <apokryphos> LFS, that is.
[04:10] <nikkia> apokryphos: so far, well, i have all of the base system, X, openssl/ssh, and a few other things done
[04:11] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[04:11] <apokryphos> nikkia: so what's next?
[04:11] <nikkia> apokryphos: a few core network things, then Qt/KDE
[04:12] <nikkia> apokryphos: oh, and gutenprint/CUPS has to be done before Qt
[04:12] <apokryphos> right
[04:12] <buz> crap
[04:12] <buz> xen only works with grub but i have lilo active
[04:13] <buz> why does the ubuntu setup install lilo anyway
[04:13] <nikkia> apokryphos: and i need to install sudo before i go insane :P
[04:14] <nikkia> apokryphos: its quite eery, my PC is a lot quieter when its not running X :P
[04:14] <jpatrick> buz: you can choose between grub and lilo
[04:14] <buz> cant remember ever being aske that
[04:14] <buz> id surely chose grob then
[04:14] <jpatrick> well I have grub
[04:14] <jpatrick> :-/
[04:15] <apokryphos> nikkia: sudo is becoming more mainstream I notice; was it used much before Ubuntu? I had heard of it, but it didn't seem popular
[04:15] <buz> weird
[04:15] <buz> i could install it by hand i know
[04:15] <nikkia> apokryphos: i've been using it since, umm, 99 ?
[04:15] <apokryphos> heh
[04:16] <buz> osx uses sudo in a lot of places i think
[04:16] <nikkia> i think i first ran into its use in around '93
[04:16] <nikkia> buz, osx has the same policy as [k] ubuntu
[04:16] <nikkia> ie, no root account, use sudo, you newb!
[04:16] <apokryphos> heh
[04:16] <apokryphos> It's handy having the root account lying about though
[04:16] <buz> first thing i did on my mac was the same as on kubuntu: sudo passwd
[04:17] <buz> unix should have root
[04:17] <nikkia> apokryphos: can you just do a 'which sudo' for me ?
[04:17] <nikkia> i'm guessing /usr/bin/sudo
[04:18] <apokryphos> nikkia: yeah, correct
[04:19] <nikkia> ok, that's sudo installed
[04:20] <nikkia> (LFS doesn't include sudo, hence why i needed to know what to set prefix to :)
[04:20] <apokryphos> yup
[04:20] <apokryphos> ztonzy: hey :), how's it going?
[04:21] <ztonzy> yuck
[04:22] <kubuntu> how do i upgrade to 3.4.1?
[04:22] <ztonzy> I cant see the desktop
[04:22] <apokryphos> kubuntu: see /topic
[04:22] <apokryphos> ztonzy: :S
[04:22] <nikkia> apokryphos: btw, you ever dealt much with readline ?
[04:22] <ztonzy> need to kill...panels I can, not desktop
[04:22] <kubuntu> anyone uses kvirc???
[04:22] <apokryphos> nikkia: have heard of it, but haven't dealt with it no.
[04:22] <nikkia> kubuntu: yes, but not atm
[04:22] <kubuntu> its so compilcated kvirc?
[04:23] <nikkia> apokryphos: darn, need to know if there is a way to set the 'jump 1 word forward' command to go to the start of the next word rather than the end of the current word
[04:23] <apokryphos> kubuntu: it's pretty simplistic; I prefer Konversation.
[04:23] <kubuntu> most simple & nice is Xchat right?
[04:23] <nikkia> apokryphos: it drives me nuts alt-f'ing over tar but then having to hit the cursor twice to get the z and change it to a j
[04:23] <kubuntu> most simple & nice is Xchat right?
[04:24] <buz> simplest ist konversation
[04:24] <apokryphos> kubuntu: no
[04:24] <kubuntu> i find it simple
[04:24] <kubuntu> any biologists here?
[04:24] <kubuntu> any biologists here?
[04:24] <apokryphos> nikkia: ah, I see what you mean. That would be pretty handy; lmk if you ever figure that out :P
[04:25] <kubuntu> hi anyone uses bio apps??
[04:25] <kubuntu> hi anyone uses bio apps??
[04:25] <apokryphos> KDE seemed to be more prejudice and go more for Physics/Chemistry :|
[04:25] <apokryphos> kubuntu: you don't need to ask so many times ;-)
[04:26] <kubuntu> okie:)
[04:26] <apokryphos> ztonzy: so what exactly happened? You're trying to kill the panels? (you in gnome?)
[04:26] <ztonzy> apokryphos, back
[04:26] <kubuntu> gnome is awwwwwwwwfulllllll!
[04:26] <ztonzy> I was copying before and all went clogged...and suddenly panels/desktop didnt work
[04:27] <ztonzy> apokryphos, so...have they worked out the issues with segfaults with konqueror/kaffeine ?
[04:27] <kubuntu> which is better: kaff or kmplayer??
[04:27] <apokryphos> ztonzy: kaffeine I have a fix for; konqueror I have one potentially. Are you on 3.4.1?
[04:27] <ztonzy> no
[04:27] <ztonzy> in gmome
[04:27] <ztonzy> gnome*
[04:27] <buz> kubuntu: generally, works best
[04:28] <buz> but mplayer occasionally still eats more files
[04:28] <buz> xine works best i mean
[04:28] <kubuntu> i said Kmplayer:)
[04:28] <kubuntu> very popular
[04:28] <buz> that one is hardly much use if you ask me
[04:28] <kubuntu> really? its plugin for konq plays almost all
[04:29] <kubuntu> try it!
[04:29] <apokryphos> isn't kmplayer just a front-end to mplayer?
[04:29] <kubuntu> NO..its bit diff
[04:31] <kubuntu> hows kaffiene anyway?
[04:31] <kubuntu> hows kaffiene anyway?
[04:34] <apokryphos> kubuntu: not too bad. The one in the repos, for me used to take 100% CPU after you'd close it and you'd need to kill it
[04:34] <apokryphos> there's a "fixed deb" out there, if you want it..
[04:35] <verwilst> apokryphos: where is it? :)
[04:35] <apokryphos> !kaffeineprob
[04:35] <ubotu> kaffeineprob is, like, at http://kudos.berlios.de/kf/kf1.html#probkaffeine
[04:39] <apokryphos> nikkia: you heard all about the shot man?
[04:39] <apokryphos> With Egypt etc. too it's getting like war :|
[04:40] <nikkia> apokryphos: probably not 'all', but i knew this was gonna be a s***fest when i heard the first eyewitness account
[04:40] <nikkia> apokryphos: the first accounts described it as 'they pushed him onto the floor, then shot him 5 times while he was being held down', that's NEVER good
[04:40] <apokryphos> nikkia: my workmate's neice was in the resort that got bombed. She was getting really worried, but luckily she was ok. Disturbing stuff.
[04:41] <apokryphos> nikkia: exactly. The "shoot to kill" policy; found it odd taht he was shot *five* times. When I ever hear that someone was shot five times in the head, I think "serious murder; x sure must have vehemently hated y"
[04:42] <apokryphos> most people now are saying that he was running away and they shot him?
[04:42] <nikkia> apokryphos: no, the official line is still that 'he tripped, and was shot'
[04:42] <nikkia> i still can't see how that's better than telling the truth
[04:43] <apokryphos> nikkia: any idea if he was shot by multiple officers?
[04:43] <nikkia> apokryphos: i dunno
[04:44] <nikkia> apokryphos: if he was shot 5 times, then either it was multiple shooters, or they'd shot at him in pursuit and missed
[04:44] <nikkia> because if you're that worked up that you loose 5 rounds into someone, you're gonna empty the clip
[04:44] <apokryphos> nikkia: I thought he was shot *in the head* five times
[04:45] <nikkia> apokryphos: either way, 5 is an odd number
[04:45] <nikkia> apokryphos: they weren't carrying revolvers :P
[04:45] <apokryphos> I just see the number 5 as... this guy seriously wanted to kill him.
[04:45] <nikkia> apokryphos: i agree
[04:45] <simone> hi
[04:46] <nikkia> apokryphos: but i add, that they must have shot at him while he was running, because if you seriously want someone dead, you shoot until the hammer hits air
[04:46] <apokryphos> as I said, 5 times shot in the head I'd think was a guy trying to kill someone else who had murdered his family or something similar
[04:46] <apokryphos> nikkia: still a quasi-mystery why the guy started running
[04:47] <nikkia> apokryphos: not really
[04:47] <apokryphos> nikkia: also they were following him for quite some time.. and wondering what "lead" they had
[04:47] <apokryphos> nikkia: oh?
[04:47] <dazza> someone told me he was from brazil
[04:47] <nikkia> apokryphos: time and time again its been proven that if you suddenly see a bunch of armed cops running towards you, instinct takes over and you RUN
[04:48] <nikkia> apokryphos: very few people stand and wait, regardless of their state of innocence
[04:48] <apokryphos> only if you think they've got reason to want to get you :P
[04:48] <nikkia> apokryphos: no, the human mind doesn't work like that
[04:48] <apokryphos> I sure would
[04:48] <nikkia> apokryphos: bet you wouldn't, instinct would hit you
[04:48] <dazza> i second nikkia here
[04:48] <dazza> adrenaline starts flowing, panic sets in
[04:48] <apokryphos> I can perhaps see why someone would, but I really think I wouldn't.
[04:49] <apokryphos> a lot of people would "freeze", too
[04:49] <dazza> flight or fight reaction, mind makes a split-second decision that it can't take on a dozen armed officers, person runs
[04:49] <nikkia> dazza, *nod*
[04:49] <apokryphos> dazza: in theory, yes. But people freeze in situations like that, or people don't lose their ability to reason.
[04:50] <dazza> apokryphos: some people freeze yes, i agree there. but a disagree that you maintain your ability to reason. some people might, many wouldn't
[04:50] <apokryphos> but the guy didn't have armed cops running at him, did he? They were just following him, right?
[04:50] <nikkia> apokryphos: its one of the reasons why US cops are seriously trained in their firearms usage, and why UK cops shouldn't just be given guns on a whim
[04:50] <apokryphos> dazza: so you do agree :)
[04:50] <dazza> apokryphos: i said some people yes
[04:50] <apokryphos> nikkia: they aren't =)
[04:50] <dazza> apokryphos: depends on the shock factor
[04:51] <apokryphos> and on the reasonableness of the person
[04:51] <nikkia> apokryphos: the shooter on friday certainly didn't have adequate training, IMO
[04:51] <dazza> 'reasonableness' is a fairly arbitrary measure :)
[04:51] <nikkia> apokryphos: a trained armed officer doesn't shoot 5 times
[04:51] <dazza> do you mean reasonable in every day life? or reasonable in pressure situations?
[04:51] <apokryphos> dazza: surely not; reasonableness is displayed when someone displays use of reason
[04:52] <dazza> apokryphos: see above :)
[04:52] <dazza> apokryphos: and reason would mean something completely different to a terrorist activist than to you and me
[04:52] <apokryphos> nikkia: yeah, I agree. He could be an anomaly, though. I'm hardly well-versed in their training methods though 
[04:53] <dazza> nikkia: perhaps the fear reaction was present in the officers too :)
[04:53] <apokryphos> dazza: that's irrelevant. We can't fail to superimpose our reason upon others; and, suffice it to say, when two people are agreed upon what's reasonable it's even clearer
[04:53] <apokryphos> dazza: as in, I think most people would agree that if you were innocent you shouldn't run away when armed officers are in pursuit of you
[04:53] <apokryphos> dazza: especially when you think they might suspect that you're a suicide bomber, and if you're aware of the shoot to kill principle
[04:53] <nikkia> dazza, i suspect it was
[04:54] <dazza> apokryphos: we can't *fail* to superimpose our reason? are you saying we must force others to agree with our definition of reason?
[04:54] <nikkia> dazza, but then, they haven't been trained properly if that is the case
[04:54] <dazza> apokryphos: it's reasonable that people shouldn't litter either, but a lot of people do. is everyone that litters unreasonable?
[04:55] <apokryphos> dazza: I think you're missing the point. The whole idea discussed above was that someone is overcome with emotions/instinct and adrenaline; so much so that they can't reason, we said. As I said, a reasonable person in this situation would be a person that didn't lose their ability to reason despite emotions and instincts of adrenaline
[04:55] <dazza> apokryphos: if he really was from brazil, perhaps he wasn't aware of the shoot to kill "principle". He might not know the language
[04:55] <apokryphos> dazza: you answered your own questoin
[04:55] <apokryphos> *question
[04:55] <apokryphos> dazza: I agree entirely there
[04:56] <apokryphos> dazza: we weren't talking just about this man; as you might check, we moved to a more generalized observation of what a reasonable person does.
[04:56] <dazza> apokryphos: no, you made a more generalized observation of what a reasonable person does, and i disagreed with your generalization :)
[04:56] <dazza> and i also disagree with your definition of what a reasonable person is
[04:56] <apokryphos> dazza: by all means, demonsrate it then.
[04:57] <dazza> demonstrate what?
[04:57] <apokryphos> dazza: you disagree that a reasonable person is one who uses reason?
[04:57] <apokryphos> I'd like to see the definition, then. Surely if a reasonable person is *anything*, he/she is that
[04:57] <dazza> apokryphos: yes i disagree. I would define a reasonable person to be someone who may be reasoned with
[04:58] <apokryphos> How do you plan on reasoning with someone who can't reason?
[04:58] <apokryphos> They go hand-in-hand
[04:58] <dazza> apokryphos: 'not using reason' is not the same as 'can't reason'
[04:58] <dazza> someone may choose not to use reason at a given time, that makes them unreasonable. that doesn't mean that they never use reason
[04:59] <apokryphos> Yes, the distinction between actuality and potentiality. Someone who may be reasoned with is a potentially reasonable person
[04:59] <apokryphos> if you're incapable of reason, then you can't really reason with them, now, can you? =)
[04:59] <dazza> of course not, but who said that someone who is unreasonable is incapable of reasoning?
[05:00] <apokryphos> If someone is unreasonable with regard to a particular situation, then they're not reasoning
[05:00] <dazza> not so
[05:00] <apokryphos> if someone fails to use reason, then they're being unreasonable, in that situation
[05:00] <dazza> they may reason that it is in their best interests to be unreasonable
[05:01] <dazza> you are redefining 'unreasonable' as someone who doesn't use reason
[05:01] <apokryphos> You're going to get into a whole lot of problems once you start saying that someone can be reasonable by being unreasonable
[05:01] <apokryphos> or, let's be more precise -- somenoe can be logical by being illogical
[05:01] <dazza> and ignoring the definition whereby unreasonable means unable to be reasoned with, ie not being willing to communicate with you in a reasonable fashion
[05:01] <apokryphos> These aren't cases. Meaningful speech presupposes logic
[05:02] <dazza> that's a very pretty saying. pray do tell, how does it relate to the argument at hand?
[05:03] <apokryphos> dazza: erm, because a person who is illogical in a particular situation is ipso facto not being logical
[05:03] <dazza> illogical and unreasonable are not the same thing
[05:03] <apokryphos> this all follows from the basic (tautologues) presupposition that being logical is logical
[05:03] <apokryphos> dazza: then you're using a different meaning to those words
[05:04] <dazza> apokryphos: yes, i did mention that before
[05:05] <apokryphos> Fine and dandy; we disagree on semantics. I don't like contradictions, though. A definition defined as a contradiction (i.e. whereby someone can be unreasonable to be reasonable) is quite problematic
[05:06] <dazza> yes, you've said that several times in several different ways
[05:06] <dazza> and it was all based on your interpretation of something i said about 10 minutes ago
[05:06] <apokryphos> so you don't agree that it can be reasonable to be unreasonable, then?
[05:07] <dazza> certainly
[05:07] <apokryphos> Note that "a reasonable person" is a different thing entirely; "a reasonable  person" includes a statement on the summation of a person's character
[05:07] <dazza> i think i am being reasonable by continuing this unreasonable discussion :)
[05:08] <apokryphos> dazza: that's not the same at all
[05:08] <apokryphos> certainly, as in, you don't agree, or certainly, as in you embrace the contradiction?
[05:08] <dazza> sorry i don't see what you're comparing that to. a reasonable person is different from what?
[05:09] <dazza> that depends which definition of 'reasonable' you are using!
[05:09] <apokryphos> the meaning changes when you speak of what's reasonable to do in a particular sitaution, and of "a reasonable person"
[05:09] <apokryphos> dazza: I'm going with yours
[05:09] <apokryphos> dazza: simple Reductio Ad Absurdum here
[05:09] <dazza> apokryphos: then yes, it can be reasonable (to you) to be unreasonable (to another person)
[05:10] <dazza> that would be, disagreeing with what they think is reasonable
[05:10] <apokryphos> That's not what I'm saying at all; you're changing the perspectives, and changing "the regard to which it's reasonable"
[05:10] <dazza> well in that case, no i disagree with your statement
[05:10] <dazza> inasmuch as i understand your interpretation of it anyhow
[05:11] <dazza> perhaps you would care to explain it?
[05:12] <LuNaTiK^GuY> "checking for Qt... configure: error: Qt (>= Qt 3.0.3) (headers and libraries) not found." grrrrrrrrrrr  grrr HELP!!
[05:12] <apokryphos> We're talking about a specific worldview, and an already presupposed particular criterium for being reasonable. It doesn't matter too much if they vary, but I'm saying that if proffer a definitoin whereby it can *actually* be reasonable (this is why I prefer "logical" -- more technical) to be unreasonable, then you've degenerated into a contradiction
[05:12] <apokryphos> LuNaTiK^GuY: did you install that package I said? :)
[05:12] <LuNaTiK^GuY> yes
[05:12] <LuNaTiK^GuY> all of them!!!
[05:13] <apokryphos> LuNaTiK^GuY: both libqt3-mt-dev and libqt3c102-mt?
[05:13] <dazza> apokryphos: so what you mean by your statement, is that it can be logical to be illogical: that is, you are choosing the definition of reasonable (as logical) for the statement you mentioned
[05:14] <LuNaTiK^GuY> YE
[05:14] <apokryphos> dazza: close, but I'm saying that it cannot be the case that being logical is illogical, when checked from the same perspective. Denying the law of noncontradiction has serious consequences
[05:14] <LuNaTiK^GuY> #qt  didnt help
[05:14] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :(
[05:14] <dazza> naturally
[05:15] <dazza> but the first thing you said is that people in panic situations don't lose their ability to reason
[05:15] <LuNaTiK^GuY> #qt didnt help, told me to solve it on my own :(
[05:15] <apokryphos> LuNaTiK^GuY: qt3-dev-tools, qt3-apps-dev  -- can you verify that you have those?
[05:15] <LuNaTiK^GuY> 1 sec
[05:15] <apokryphos> dazza: incorrect. I said some people don't, sure.
[05:15] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i do
[05:15] <dazza> [00:49]  <apokryphos> dazza: in theory, yes. But people freeze in situations like that, or people don't lose their ability to reason. <-- is that what you meant to say here?
[05:16] <apokryphos> LuNaTiK^GuY: then something's going wrong... those are all the things I have
[05:16] <apokryphos> dazza: why, of course =)
[05:16] <LuNaTiK^GuY> apokryphos: Qt (>= Qt 3.0.3) ---- perhaps it needs an older version????????????
[05:17] <dazza> so, if that line read: dazza: in theory, yes. But some people freeze in situations like that, or some people don't lose their ability to reason. <-- , then we wouldn't be having this conversation :)
[05:17] <apokryphos> LuNaTiK^GuY: no
[05:17] <apokryphos> dazza: I have no idea why... I don't understand what else you'd interpret that sentence as given the context
[05:18] <dazza> apokryphos: given the context, i took it to mean that *all* people freeze in situations like that, and noone loses their ability to reason
[05:18] <apokryphos> dazza: say, there's at least three responses to the situation. You said one was running, I agreed (hence the "sure"), and then I gave others -- those two there
[05:18] <LuNaTiK^GuY> so wot do i do???
[05:18] <apokryphos> dazza: I wouldn't have said "sure" then, would I? =)
[05:19] <apokryphos> LuNaTiK^GuY: ooo, apokryphos knows! Heh, the path to Qt might not properly be set.
[05:19] <dazza> apokryphos: do you mean the line where you said "i sure would"
[05:19] <dazza> ?
[05:19] <LuNaTiK^GuY> Please check your installation!
[05:19] <LuNaTiK^GuY> For more details about this problem, look at the end of config.log.
[05:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i get that part too
[05:20] <apokryphos> LuNaTiK^GuY: one sec
[05:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> tyt
[05:20] <ep> what are you compiling LuNaTiK^GuY 
[05:21] <apokryphos> dazza: no, by agreeing with you there. Heh. Nevertheless, we're really actually agreed on things here; we're inevitable slaves to the problems with semantics, once again :P
[05:21] <dazza> the beauty of natural languages :)
[05:21] <LuNaTiK^GuY> a little KDE app that shows the Doom 2 face full of blood according to cpu load...i know its stupid....but i still need these headers for other stuff
[05:23] <dazza> LuNaTiK^GuY: is it ./configure; make; make install? or a src package?
[05:23] <apokryphos> LuNaTiK^GuY: do ./configure --prefix=/usr --with-qt-dir=/usr/lib/qt3
[05:23] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ./configure make makeinstall
[05:23] <dazza> LuNaTiK^GuY: if it's the former, you could try specifying the flags for the qt dir
[05:23] <dazza> LuNaTiK^GuY: like apokryphos just said :D
[05:23] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ok lemme try :)
[05:24] <LuNaTiK^GuY> same error :(
[05:24] <apokryphos> if htat doesn't work you may need to add --with-qt-includes=DIR
[05:25] <LuNaTiK^GuY> same error on both tries!!!
[05:25] <LuNaTiK^GuY> this is killin me
[05:25] <dazza> LuNaTiK^GuY: perhaps look in the directories you have specified, to be sure there is something there
[05:25] <apokryphos> LuNaTiK^GuY: can you paste exactly what you're entering?
[05:25] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ok 1 sec
[05:25] <ep> apt-cache search libqt3  did you install libqt3-headers and libqt3-dev  and everything else?
[05:26] <dazza> LuNaTiK^GuY: also, what did you use for DIR with the --with-qt-includes=DIR flag?
[05:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> sudo ./configure --prefix=/usr --with-qt-dir=/usr/lib/qt3 --with-qt-includes=DIR
[05:26] <apokryphos> heh
[05:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> the configure does start
[05:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but mid-way it stops at that error
[05:26] <apokryphos> you're meant to replace the DIR
[05:26] <dazza> should be /usr/include/qt3 i think
[05:27] <dazza> sudo ./configure --prefix=/usr --with-qt-dir=/usr/lib/qt3 --with-qt-includes=/usr/include/qt3 <-- try that
[05:27] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ok
[05:27] <apokryphos> dazza: not sudo
[05:27] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i got past that error
[05:27] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but i have another ;)
[05:27] <apokryphos> oh?
[05:28] <dazza> ok, not sudo :)
[05:28] <LuNaTiK^GuY> checking for KDE... configure: error:
[05:28] <LuNaTiK^GuY> in the prefix, you've chosen, are no KDE headers installed. This will fail.
[05:28] <LuNaTiK^GuY> So, check this please and use another prefix!
[05:28] <apokryphos> sudo apt-get install kde-devel
[05:29] <LuNaTiK^GuY> it workkkkkkkkkdd ;)
[05:29] <LuNaTiK^GuY> thanksssssssssssss
[05:29] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :) :) :) xxx to all
[05:29] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[05:29] <apokryphos> =)
[05:30] <LuNaTiK^GuY> BUT
[05:30] <LuNaTiK^GuY> make is giving me errors
[05:30] <LuNaTiK^GuY> impossible to read and impossible to paste here!
[05:30] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[05:30] <apokryphos> Wondering why you got that Qt error; I don't actually have my QTDIR defined, it seems. Hm, probably should.
[05:30] <dazza> LuNaTiK^GuY: paste the first line that says error:
[05:31] <LuNaTiK^GuY> is ther a way to clear the console screen first?
[05:31] <LuNaTiK^GuY> its MESSY
[05:31] <dazza> LuNaTiK^GuY: clear
[05:31] <dazza> :)
[05:31] <dazza> or: clear; make
[05:32] <LuNaTiK^GuY> cc1plus: warning: "-Wbad-function-cast" is valid for C/ObjC but not for C++
[05:32] <LuNaTiK^GuY> cc1plus: Permission denied: opening dependency file .deps/karmack.TPlo
[05:32] <LuNaTiK^GuY> make[2] : *** [karmack.lo]  Error 1
[05:32] <LuNaTiK^GuY> midway of make..i get this
[05:32] <apokryphos> did you do the make with sudo perms?
[05:32] <dazza> ahhh
[05:32] <apokryphos> *configure
[05:32] <dazza> because you used sudo for ./configure you will need to use it with make too
[05:32] <LuNaTiK^GuY> erm no
[05:32] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[05:32] <LuNaTiK^GuY> it worked now :)
[05:32] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lollll
[05:33] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'm so stupiddd
[05:33] <apokryphos> LuNaTiK^GuY: configure and make should be done without sudo; only sudo make install
[05:33] <dazza> those are common mistakes: we all make them
[05:33] <dazza> we just know what the errors mean :D
[05:33] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i dont lkol
[05:33] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ok it got installed
[05:33] <LuNaTiK^GuY> phewwwwwwwww
[05:34] <LuNaTiK^GuY> now where do i find the app i installed
[05:34] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ?
[05:34] <apokryphos> Alt + F2 -> {appname}
[05:34] <dazza> LuNaTiK^GuY: there will be files all over the place
[05:34] <LuNaTiK^GuY> could not run
[05:34] <LuNaTiK^GuY> grr
[05:35] <dazza> try it from a konsole, see what output you get
[05:35] <dazza> perhaps the name of the binary is different from the app name
[05:35] <LuNaTiK^GuY> command not found
[05:35] <dazza> LuNaTiK^GuY: what's the name of the app?
[05:36] <LuNaTiK^GuY> karmack i think
[05:37] <LuNaTiK^GuY> http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=10841
[05:37] <LuNaTiK^GuY> this is the appo
[05:37] <dazza> ta
[05:38] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ta?
[05:38] <dazza> type kar then press <tab> a couple of times, you should get a list of all apps starting with kar
[05:38] <jpatrick> thanks
[05:38] <dazza> sorry, i'm aussie :)
[05:38] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ok :)
[05:38] <jpatrick> ta's also from Northern England :P
[05:39] <dazza> probably a lot of aussie slang is also from northern england, but the yanks don't seem to have taken it all with them...
[05:39] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i got karm only
[05:40] <LuNaTiK^GuY> nothin to do with it
[05:40] <dazza> ok, the app is either called something different, or isn't in the path
[05:40] <dazza> find /usr -name karmack
[05:40] <paulo> LuNaTiK^GuY: What if you look in the output of 'make install' to see if you can find the name there
[05:40] <paulo> or what dazza said
[05:40] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i got this
[05:41] <LuNaTiK^GuY> without the unknown command ;)
[05:41] <dazza> ohhhh is it a kicker applet? try starting a new X session (or restarting kde) and looking in the applet menu
[05:42] <dazza> applet menu being right-click on panel->add to panel->applet
[05:42] <LuNaTiK^GuY> oh ic
[05:42] <yahalom> what is the kubuntu repo? not this right
[05:42] <yahalom> :
[05:42] <yahalom> deb http://kubuntu.org/hoary-koffice14 hoary-updates main
[05:42] <yahalom> ?
[05:43] <paulo> that is for KOffice
[05:43] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ok brb
[05:43] <dazza> looks to me like a koffice-specific kubuntu repo... but i know absolutely nothing about the repos :)
[05:43] <LuNaTiK^GuY> thanks for all ur help !!!!
[05:43] <yahalom> so what is the kubuntu repo?
[05:43] <paulo> deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary main restricted
[05:43] <paulo> that is the default, I think
[05:44] <paulo> you can add multiverse and universe if you want more apps
[05:44] <yahalom> found it
[05:44] <yahalom> paulo, thanx mam
[05:44] <dazza> for users in the US, that's the regular Ubuntu repo yes
[05:44] <yahalom> man
[05:44] <paulo> oh of course, that is the US one
[05:44] <dazza> customise for your locale :)
[05:45] <dazza> better: see if your ISP has a local mirror that's up to date: you might get free traffic to it :)
[05:46] <LuNaTiK^GuY> the applet worked!! thanks to alll :) xxxxx
[05:47] <dazza> yay :) keep those sources around, it will make it easier to uninstall should you ever feel the need
[05:48] <LuNaTiK^GuY> the sources for thepackages and all the help? yeah its all written down :)
[05:49] <LuNaTiK^GuY> its so cutte
[05:49] <LuNaTiK^GuY> its the Doom hero
[05:49] <LuNaTiK^GuY> showing CPU load
[05:49] <dazza> now you need to find apps to flog ur CPU ;)
[05:49] <LuNaTiK^GuY> yeah i wanna see blood :)
[05:49] <dooglio> heh
[05:50] <LuNaTiK^GuY> OOo did the trick lollllllllll
[05:50] <dazza> try this from a command line: while true; do true; done
[05:50] <nikkia> sometimes i see blood when i run OOo without any fancy applets :P
[05:51] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i got a '>' on the next line
[05:51] <dazza> check your semicolons
[05:51] <LuNaTiK^GuY> is 'done' included?
[05:51] <dazza> yes
[05:52] <LuNaTiK^GuY> oh crap he'#s bleeding bad!!!
[05:52] <dazza> hehehe
[05:52] <dazza> (press ctrl+c to end the spinlock)
[05:52] <LuNaTiK^GuY> hes 50% dead lol
[05:52] <dazza> should go all the way
[05:52] <apokryphos> nikkia: you ought to get that checked out. Anger management classes :P
[05:53] <LuNaTiK^GuY> stopped at 50%
[05:53] <nikkia> dazza, why not be completely evil, and post a fork-bomb for him to test :P
[05:53] <LuNaTiK^GuY> sure
[05:53] <LuNaTiK^GuY> gimme gimme ;)
[05:53] <dazza> LuNaTiK^GuY: a fork bomb will freeze your computer :)
[05:54] <LuNaTiK^GuY> ohhh
[05:54] <LuNaTiK^GuY> then we better not
[05:54] <dazza> we can if you want! ;)
[05:54] <nikkia> dazza, hmm, maybe, does ubuntu set a fork ulimit ?
[05:54] <LuNaTiK^GuY> at least show me the code ;)
[05:54] <dazza> nikkia: not sure, it might do being a desktop distro
[05:54] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol tyt ;)
[05:55] <nikkia> LFS has a ulimit for fork of 8192
[05:55] <nikkia> no idea if that'd be enough to prevent a fork bomb being fatal tho :P
[05:55] <dazza> nikkia: lol :) it's very hard to stop all types of fork bombs anyway
[05:55] <nikkia> nope, no fork limit
[05:55] <nikkia> (on ubuntu)
[05:56] <nikkia> LuNaTiK^GuY: i don't, actually
[05:56] <LuNaTiK^GuY> oh :)
[05:57] <nikkia> hmmm, looking at the different default ulimits between ubuntu and LFS is odd
[05:57] <LuNaTiK^GuY> from where r u nikkia?
[05:57] <dazza> i haven't done a fork bomb in a while, but it might look something like while true; do echo "while true; do true; done" | bash; done
[05:57] <nikkia> LFS disables core dumps, and limits locked mem to 32KB, and forks to 8191, ubuntu has none of those limits set
[05:58] <LuNaTiK^GuY> dazza: 53% dead
[05:58] <dooglio> would you also have to set the priority super high for that to really work?
[05:58] <dazza> nikkia: many distros don't like to set limits because that would presuppose what the distro could be used for
[05:58] <dooglio> seems like you could still kill the job
[05:58] <dazza> dooglio: not usually no :)
[05:58] <nikkia> dazza: i don't think disabling core, and limiting processes to 8000+ is a major issue, but i question the locked mem limit
[05:59] <nikkia> dazza, but then, tbh, i don't recall ever having used 'locked memory' anyway
[05:59] <dooglio> i'll have to try it on a machine I don't care about
[05:59] <dazza> nikkia: the number of processes isn't always the fatal aspect of a fork bomb anyway
[05:59] <nikkia> dazza, i know, usually bash eats all the ram first :P
[06:00] <dazza> dooglio: should lock a machine solid in about 10seconds flat
[06:00] <LuNaTiK^GuY> it looks like my little applet here just managed to heat up a discussion on fork bombs ;S
[06:00] <LuNaTiK^GuY> hahah
[06:00] <nikkia> dazza, and usually, if you have ulimits set, you'll run out of fd's long before any other limit kicks in
[06:00] <dooglio> dazza: that's amazing
[06:00] <dazza> nikkia: indeed, enough contest over the in-memory ram and you're screwed :D
[06:01] <dazza> dooglio: yes, quite easily. just ask the user to run your code :D
[06:01] <dooglio> dazza: and it doesn't have to run priviledged, does it?
[06:01] <nikkia> dooglio: iirc, you can do fork bombs in javascript :P
[06:01] <dooglio> sure, send 'em a bash script
[06:01] <dazza> dooglio: no, if the machine has no limits set, any user should be able to bring the system down
[06:01] <dooglio> wow
[06:02] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[06:02] <_matt_> hi, does anyone know how to get splashy (or any other splash screen on bootup) working in hoary?
[06:02] <dooglio> okay, so here is the next question
[06:02] <nikkia> running this regression test against berkeley-db was a bad idea
[06:02] <dooglio> where do you set the limits for that?
[06:02] <nikkia> Starting test 90 of 1582 parallel items.        Rough guess:  2 hour(s) left.
[06:02] <dazza> dooglio: /etc/security/limits.conf
[06:02] <dooglio> heh
[06:02] <dooglio> shoulda known
[06:03] <nikkia> it was '1 hour left' for the first 30-40 tests :/
[06:03] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'moff for now...cu all l8er! thanks!!
[06:03] <dazza> nikkia: looks like you will be here for a good 4hours then!
[06:03] <dooglio> go figure that a limit would be set in a file named "limits.conf"
[06:03] <dazza> dooglio: sometimes it is buried in the pam config files :)
[06:04] <nikkia> dooglio: ubuntu uses PAM, thus PAM should be setting the limits
[06:04] <nikkia> when PAM is in use, /etc/limits{,.conf} is no longer used
[06:04] <dooglio> ah
[06:04] <nikkia> another win for PAM, since that means you can define different limits based on different user classes
[06:05] <dooglio> that is cool
[06:05] <dazza> ahh, it is /etc/pam.d/su then
[06:05] <dazza> oh wait, no, it is what i said before...
[06:05] <dazza> you just need to uncomment a line in /etc/pam.d/su as well
[06:05] <nikkia> dazza, i think there'll be default limits for PAM globally, then each module in pam.d can override those limits
[06:06] <dazza> nikkia: lets find out :D if i'm not back in 5 mins i've forkbombed my desktop
[06:06] <nikkia> dazza: thus a local user can be granted different limits to a remote user, which is cool
[06:06] <dooglio> heh
[06:06] <nikkia> in particular, you can setup remote users to have a 10s CPU time limit, and relive the 70s :P
[06:07] <dooglio> so...where does one find this particular limit setting in the many-filed contents of /etc/pam.d
[06:07] <nikkia> heh, 10s CPU will just about get you thru 4 minutes of MP3 :P
[06:08] <nikkia> that should be enough for most disco songs :P
[06:08] <dooglio> "I'm goin' no-where, some body help me...."
[06:10] <dazza> ok i'm not sure if kubuntu has process limits or my fork bomb sucks...
[06:11] <dooglio> http://forums.designtechnica.com/archive/index.php/t-7510.html
[06:11] <dooglio> that is quite appropos
[06:11] <dooglio> he lists a python exploit
[06:12] <dooglio> so, i guess, if you want to use /etc/security/limits.conf, you need to enable that in pam
[06:12] <dazza> dooglio: yep, there's a line in the file i mentioned before that you have to uncomment
[06:12] <dazza> it's clearly marked
[06:12] <dooglio> dazza: yup
[06:13] <dazza> dooglio: better save your work first ;)
[06:15] <dooglio> heh
[06:15] <dazza> ahh this is what i was looking for: http://www.runme.org/feature/read/+forkbombsh/+47/
[06:15] <dazza> one-liner for bash: you don't even have to put it in a script, just type it and watch your computer die :D
[06:16] <nikkia> these tests are taking forever
[06:16] <dazza> try suspending them instead :)
[06:20] <dazza> dooglio: here's something fun to do, run top -d .1 in a separate window when you start the exploit. make sure you can see the load averages when you hit the big red button
[06:20] <dooglio> ...if i can ever get it to boot, that is
[06:20] <dazza> kidna fun to see your cpu load average hit 800...
[06:21] <nikkia> dazza, i've seen solaris boxes average that under normal circumstances :P
[06:22] <dooglio> wow
[06:22] <dooglio> it happened QUICKLY
[06:22] <nikkia> (ok, maybe a little exaggerated, but our solaris servers at uni were considered 'unloaded' if they were < 100 in the load :)
[06:22] <dazza> nikkia: true, but my desktop is a little different :)
[06:23] <dooglio> interesting
[06:23] <dooglio> I can still ping the box
[06:23] <dazza> nikkia: my 800 was an exxageration also :D it was 300 last time i tried it
[06:23] <dazza> dooglio: are the ping times getting longer?
[06:23] <dooglio> no, not at all
[06:23] <dooglio> but I can't log in
[06:23] <dooglio> and on one session, no echo of characters typed
[06:23] <dazza> dooglio: looks like the kernel is doing its job, hogging the resources
[06:24] <dooglio> heh
[06:24] <dooglio> amazing
[06:24] <dooglio> the ping time is 0.2 ms
[06:24] <dooglio> 64 bytes from 10.1.1.1: icmp_seq=45 ttl=64 time=0.1 ms
[06:24] <nikkia> again, perfectly normal for solaris :P
[06:24] <dooglio> ah!
[06:24] <dooglio> Out of Memory: Killed process 5147 (bash)
[06:25] <dooglio> over and over again, but with a different process number each time (obviously)
[06:25] <nikkia> thats ok, it probably took large chunks of the kernel out before it decided to kill the bash process :P
[06:25] <dazza> nikkia: the sgi boxes at my uni have 8megs of cache per cpu... if i had 8megs of cache i could probably push the load a little higher too :)
[06:25] <dazza> (that's L2 cache)
[06:25] <dooglio> damn
[06:25] <dooglio> that is a elegant exploit, for sure
[06:25] <dooglio> no way out
[06:25] <nikkia> dazza, just buy some IA64s :)
[06:25] <nikkia> dazza, i think intel even have a 32MB L2 option
[06:27] <nikkia> it took less than a minute to build? /me does not believe!
[06:27] <dazza> dooglio: there are others that can dirty your ram instead of mass-producing processes, those wreak havoc with the vm system and avoid process limits :)
[06:27] <dazza> nikkia: hmm seems like i've gotta check in on the newest developments in CPU-world :) i'm out of touch
[06:28] <nikkia> dazza, i really like the itanium 2, but noone sells barebones or anything like that :/
[06:28] <nikkia> ah, no, its L3 on the IA64 that goes up to 9MB
[06:29] <dazza> ahh
[06:29] <dazza> nevertheless, quite impressive :)
 Not a IA64 system, but the Xeons in our new quad-CPU dell  box have 8M L3
[06:29] <gdh> and the performance is very disappointing :(
[06:30] <nikkia> the IA64 has an obscene number of registers too
[06:30] <dazza> gdh: what does the box do?
[06:30] <gdh> I have lots more tests to run next week - one of which will doubtless be installing RHEL / CentOS so Dell know I'm running an 'approved OS' (wankers)
[06:30] <dooglio> tries the exploit again
[06:30] <nikkia> i think it works out to be something like 768 registers, when you add them all up
[06:30] <gdh> dazza: Nothing yet - is going to be a big mysql box
[06:30] <onewing> is there any way to get synaptic to ignore broken packages?
[06:30] <gdh> bbiab
[06:31] <dazza> dooglio: now you can DoS your personal account! try running the exploit then starting new processes under the same username :)
[06:32] <nikkia> gdh, i hope you're not planning on running J2EE on there :P
[06:33] <dazza> in fact, if you set a process limit for the machine overall, you will get the same effect... will probably be almost as bad as the exploit itself :)
[06:33] <nikkia> gdh, as sun has goofed, again, the current build of J2EE won't install on the current RHEL - even though RHEL is the only OS sun let you install on :P
[06:33] <dooglio> wow
[06:33] <dooglio> even with an nproc limit of 500, my system still locks up tight
[06:34] <dazza> dooglio: did you restart? process limits might not be in effect yet...
[06:34] <gdh> nikkia: No this is a dedicated mysql-only box.. that, sshd and an snmpd :)
[06:34] <dazza> i dunno what you have to do to get pam to reload its config... but rebooting will do it :)
[06:34] <gdh> Sun++ :)
[06:35] <dazza> gdh: what size db?
[06:35] <gdh> hehehe
[06:35] <nikkia> gah!
[06:35] <dooglio> dazza: I did a ulimit -a
[06:35] <gdh> dazza: dataset is tiny, only 500M or so... 
[06:35] <nikkia> i've forgotten what it was i was installing python for
[06:35] <dooglio> and saw that I had a nproc limit of 500
[06:35] <dooglio> nikkia: to test the python exploit?
[06:35] <dazza> gdh: takes a lot of traffic tho?
[06:35] <gdh> dazza: Not at the moment - I want this box to last 5 years tho :)
[06:35] <nikkia> dooglio: no, something else i wanted to install depended on python
[06:36] <gdh> dazza:  Basically I saw better performance on a dell 1850 than the 6850 :/
[06:36] <dazza> gdh: ahh. still much bigger than the boxen i work on :) 50MB dataset, mysql shares cpu-time with other services on a sempron-based pc :)
[06:36] <gdh> dazza: And similarly much better performance using MySQL.com's binary dist in /usr/local than Debian's own :/
[06:37] <dazza> gdh: wonder what flags the debian team uses...
[06:37] <dazza> gdh: oh wait, it was probably just a very old build :)
[06:37] <othernoob> mmh, is there a way to make k3b not use the name "k3b data project" by default and use a diff one instead?
[06:37] <gdh> dazza: feh ;) 4.1.11a versus 4.1.13 so they're not far behind :)
[06:38] <dazza> gdh: using sarge then?
[06:38] <gdh> yep, this is a completely new naked box.. 
[06:38] <nikkia> aha!
[06:38] <dazza> by the time etch is out, 5.x will probably be stable :)
[06:38] <nikkia> it was to install lcms, which libmng needs, which is needed for Qt !
[06:39] <gdh> by the time etch is out I will have another job so won't give a shit :)
[06:39] <dazza> hehehe
[06:40] <dazza> hmm... approaching 3am here
[06:40] <dazza> *yawn* nice talking, i'm off to bed :)
[06:40] <gdh> =)
[06:40] <gdh> bb
[06:40] <dazza> nite all
[06:40] <gdh> nn
[06:41] <nikkia> afternoon apokryphos 
[06:42] <apokryphos> hey
[06:42] <apokryphos> "xine claims it is unable to play mp3s". How random
[06:43] <apokryphos> Good to see ubuntu.com finally put a mention of kubuntu on the homepage
[06:48] <Dionys> hello, what's the default KDE Style of Kubuntu? I think unfortantely I had delete it
[06:48] <aseigo> lipstick IIRC
[06:50] <Dionys> how can I reinstall it?
[06:52] <apokryphos> tada, cool.
[06:53] <paulo> lipstick? Not plastik?
[06:56] <Dionys> no, it isn't plastik
[07:00] <ep> apokryphos, where did you get "The Big Yellow Taxi"?  I need some music on my box.
[07:04] <Almindor> hilfe!
[07:05] <Almindor> "Getting data from system is not supported!" I get this error on any "system/anything"
[07:05] <Almindor> (the system icon down there)
[07:05] <Almindor> even home doesn't work
[07:05] <Almindor> it's shown as a KIOExec error
[07:07] <apokryphos> ep: I use Limewire generally
[07:07] <Almindor> anyone?? please.. it's very disturbing
[07:07] <Wizzard> please, what do I have to do to apply Gnome font settings at KDE startup? I have set dpi bot in xinit and in in /etc/fonts/local.conf
[07:08] <apokryphos> ep: it's very good; runs on the Gnutella p2p network; plenty o' stuff
[07:09] <nikkia> hahaha!
[07:09] <nikkia> the ugly stretch-suv-limo that i keep seeing drive past, just got towed past!
[07:09] <apokryphos> Hehehe; that'll show them :P
[07:09] <ep> apokryphos,  cool can I backport it or what?
[07:10] <darren> hi, can anyone tell me why im restricted to 1024x768 in kubuntu ?
[07:10] <apokryphos> (there's a Ferrari outside my workplace; whenever the guy comes home he waits in the car for about ten minutes, loving the people that walk past and look)
[07:10] <nikkia> apokryphos: it really is ugly, its sort of the same style as a humvee, only about 60' long
[07:10] <nikkia> (its not a humvee tho)
[07:10] <apokryphos> Wizzard: gtk2-engines-gtk-qt
[07:10] <apokryphos> ubotu: tell ep about limewire
[07:11] <apokryphos> nikkia: never actually been in a limo. And just why does it drive past? Aren't they really unpractical cars for everyday driving ;-)
[07:11] <gdh> apokryphos: I wonder if you can get invisible sellotape to make it look like someone's keyed the whole paintwork down one side? :)
[07:11] <gdh> apokryphos: I think that would be more fun than actually keying it =)
[07:11] <Wizzard> apokryphos, what is that package about?
[07:12] <apokryphos> gdh: haha, genius plan.
[07:12] <apokryphos> Wizzard: it's so that gtk apps adopt the qt style/fonts
[07:12] <apokryphos> Wizzard: configurable from kcontrol, once installed
[07:12] <ep> Woke up on the couch at 2 AM last night, and a classic SNL from 1976 was playing on my TV... Rita Coolege was singing this song and I cant get it out of my head cause it was cool.  She starting hoola hooping too.  Kris Kristofferson was on it too.
[07:12] <Wizzard> oh, thank you very very much
[07:12] <nikkia> apokryphos: it drives past because this is a major road, and i imagine the sort of people that live 'up the other end of this road' *cough* beckhams *cough* need to be limo'ed to london often
[07:12] <gdh> apokryphos: You'd /hope/ that the wanker takes it to some overpriced body shop and they see what it is, but still charge him 1000 for 'fixing' the paintwork :))
[07:13] <apokryphos> nikkia: rich lil' mofos
[07:13] <nikkia> apokryphos: who? the beckhams? you're not exactly telling me anything i don't know here...
[07:14] <nikkia> apokryphos: there are many days i wish that the incident of last dec 17th had turned out differently!
[07:14] <apokryphos> gdh: he looks like the conventional arrogant rich guy. I'm not joking -- seriously around ten minutes of plain sittin' in the car every time :P
[07:14] <gdh> apokryphos: That's sad beyond the pale . :/
[07:15] <apokryphos> nikkia: Hammersmith has a "richer side" and a "ghetto side" (i.e. estates), but it's not *that* rich, the rich side. Used to live near "Bishop's Avenue" in North London -- straight mansions on that road.
[07:15] <gdh> worth maybe sticking a 'flyer' under a wiper... except rather than being some advert for a club, have a nice long text summarising in 'you are a wanker' signed by lots of people at work? :)
[07:15] <apokryphos> hahaha
[07:15] <nikkia> apokryphos: the 'incident' of dec 17th, btw, was something the media didn't pick up on
[07:15] <apokryphos> Will have to do something, and -- suffice it to say, I have plenty of time to think at work
[07:16] <nikkia> apokryphos: a 747 landing at stanstead nearly ploughed into the beckham's mansion
[07:16] <apokryphos> I thikn one of our residents pissed on the wheel in the past :|
[07:16] <gdh> apokryphos: Might be worth video'ing, even...
[07:16] <Almindor> what can cause the system menu to fail??
[07:16] <Almindor> I must've uninstalled some stupid dependency..
[07:16] <apokryphos> nikkia: hah! How come? Just flying low?
[07:16] <nikkia> apokryphos: somehow, the plane's GPS was 11 miles off, it wasn't until ATC noticed that a plane shouldn't be at 500' altitude 11 miles out, that the situation was averted
[07:16] <Almindor> or more like installed..
[07:16] <_StarScream> apokryphos: i'm living in a studio appartment (shoebox) in tunbridge wells. There are 2 ferrari's a maserrati, a DB9 and a lotus exige parked out the front.
[07:17] <apokryphos> _StarScream: nice
[07:17] <nikkia> apokryphos: there was no mention of wtf the pilot was on to actually get that low so far from the airport
[07:17] <_StarScream> apokryphos: yeh, i'm from adelaide (oz) never seen so many expensive cars in one spot, aside from car dealerships of course
[07:17] <apokryphos> nikkia: who knows. He liked the air-stewardess a lot.
[07:18] <nikkia> the only truely expensive car i see here occasionally... is a certain rock star's Ferrari Enzo
[07:18] <apokryphos> _StarScream: I can see quite a few depending on what area I run around. I've got a friend with 7 Mercs, no lie.
[07:18] <apokryphos> _StarScream: her dad owns some company with fans. Asked her why he had so many, and she just says, "he likes them a lot"
[07:18] <buz> i db9? *drooool*
[07:18] <_StarScream> apokryphos: 7 mercs,  some people are so materialistic ;-)
[07:18] <gdh> I live in a sleepy commuter town and work in Salford. I don't see a lot of shiny on the roads :)
[07:19] <apokryphos> _StarScream: almost representative of what her house is like... pool tables, two 72" screens, pretty big house in general etc.
[07:19] <_StarScream> apokryphos: whoa...
[07:19] <apokryphos> _StarScream: I'll wager good money that I'm happier in life with my Volvo 460 :P
[07:19] <buz> friend of mine's family got like 9 digit probably. giant fucking house.
[07:20] <apokryphos> less happier about failing my test first time ;-)
[07:21] <apokryphos> nikkia: rock star -- how famous? 
[07:22] <_StarScream> apokryphos: must be pretty famous...you don't choose an enzo, they choose you...even then afaik you just lease it from ferarri essentially. It stays their property
[07:22] <nikkia> apokryphos: how many rock stars that have a ferrari fetish and live in the london->cambridge corridor do you know ? :)
[07:22] <buz> wtf would one drive ferrari anyway. that's pimp cars.
[07:22] <nikkia> apokryphos: there's only one :)
[07:23] <apokryphos> :| :|
[07:23] <nikkia> apokryphos: david gilmour
[07:23] <buz> the db9 otoh, that is a car
[07:23] <buz> never even heard of him LOL
[07:23] <gdh> hah :)
[07:23] <nikkia> buz, um, pink floyd ?
[07:23] <apokryphos> wow
[07:23] <_StarScream> buz: did you see that le-mans db9?
[07:23] <buz> pink floyd i know
[07:23] <buz> no
[07:23] <apokryphos> nikkia: Phil from Eastenders used to live near, so there! I win :P
[07:24] <buz> i dont think i'd buy an italian car
[07:24] <buz> the ones i know keep failing ;)
[07:24] <_StarScream> buz: http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=754&fArticleId=2151109
[07:26] <nikkia> right, thats cups+gutenprint configured
[07:26] <buz> whoa not too shabby
[07:26] <buz> now if the datacenter techs could get their core router not to drop packages my evening would be saved
[07:26] <apokryphos> nikkia: on to Qt!
[07:26] <nikkia> apokryphos: no, apparently, Qt wants mysql and other stuff first
[07:27] <nikkia> which will of course have a million of its own dependancies yet unsatisfied
[07:27] <apokryphos> oh joy
[07:27] <nikkia> wooo hoo
[07:27] <nikkia> gutenprint even claims the printer can print to CDs
[07:27] <buz> WTF
[07:27] <buz> why does Qt want mysql???
[07:28] <nikkia> (which is the whole purpose of gutenprint vs gimp-print :)
[07:28] <nikkia> buz, Qt has database support integrated
[07:28] <nikkia> never understood why
[07:28] <buz> but not by default i thought
[07:28] <onewing> does anyone know why konqueror would hang my whole system when i run it as root?
[07:28] <buz> would be kinda stupid to insist on using it
[07:28] <onewing> or what i could do to try to get out of a hang?
[07:28] <nikkia> buz, mysql will be a requirement at some point anyway, makes sense to compile Qt with support for it now
[07:28] <buz> granted
[07:29] <apokryphos> onewing: try pressing Enter when it does that. Or, are you running it in "File Manager" mode, and not web browser mode?
[07:29] <buz> bloody hell 65% package loss is waaaay too much
[07:29] <apokryphos> onewing: another Q, I guess, is how are you running it from root? sudo konqueror?
[07:29] <nikkia> buz, they are 'optional' dependancies
[07:30] <onewing> apokryphos: its just running it from terminal, when in logged in as su
[07:30] <apokryphos> onewing: you created a root account?
[07:30] <onewing> apokryphos: does the same with sudo konqueror
[07:31] <onewing> apokryphos: i think i did, im a fairly big newb, any way i could check?
[07:31] <apokryphos> onewing: shouldn't really use a root account, particularly not for trying to run GUI apps. 
[07:31] <apokryphos> onewing: as in, you should ever use "su" -- [k] ubuntu uses sudo
[07:31] <Dionys> I could change the Syle but not the whole design
[07:31] <apokryphos> *should never
[07:31] <Dionys> Konqueror's background is white not pinck and so on
[07:32] <apokryphos> onewing: anyhow, try alt+f2 -> kdesu konqueror, and then enter your *user* password
[07:32] <Dionys> how can I change it the default?
[07:32] <onewing> ok, ill try
[07:32] <apokryphos> Dionys: to the default background?
[07:32] <Dionys> yes
[07:32] <Dionys> and the default design
[07:32] <apokryphos> Dionys: Probably called "Kubuntu Desktop" isn't it?
[07:32] <paulo> Dionys: Have you tried to go to the Theme Manager and clicking of defaults?
[07:32] <apokryphos> oh, default colours
[07:32] <paulo> of = on
[07:33] <Dionys> no clickung on defaults doesn't work
[07:33] <apokryphos> * "Kubuntu Wallpaper", heh
[07:33] <Dionys> yes, perhaps reinstall the desktop would help
[07:34] <apokryphos> no, shouldn't be hard to manually change... 
[07:34] <Dionys> but how
[07:34] <Dionys> ?
[07:34] <Dionys> my base is ubuntu
[07:34] <Dionys> (Gnome)
[07:34] <apokryphos> Configure Desktop
[07:34] <apokryphos> Colors: Single Color
[07:34] <apokryphos> #003082 
[07:34] <apokryphos> and No Blending
[07:35] <apokryphos> (I hope we're just talking about Background stuff here, as you said)
[07:35] <paulo> apokryphos: I think he wants to change the whole theme to default, not just the background
[07:35] <apokryphos> ah
[07:35] <Dionys> yes I want
[07:35] <apokryphos> one sec
[07:35] <onewing> apokryphos: seemed to do the same thing, is there anything i could try to get out of the hang when it happens
[07:35] <apokryphos> onewing: did you try those things I said?
[07:35] <onewing> apokryphos: i can still move my mouse, and music keeps playing, but nothing responds
[07:36] <onewing> apokryphos: yah, unfortunatly, same thing =(
[07:36] <apokryphos> Dionys: and going into kcontrol -> Appearance & Themes -> Colors and choosing "KDE Default" definitely doesn't change it?
[07:36] <apokryphos> onewing: have you killall konqueror before trying to rerun it?
[07:37] <Dionys> one second I must go on kde first ;-)
[07:37] <onewing> apokryphos:  yah, there wasnt any other ones open
[07:37] <Dionys> kcontrol where is it;-)
[07:37] <apokryphos> Dionys: you can just alt+f2 -> kcontrol
[07:37] <paulo> Dionys: Control Center in the menu
[07:37] <onewing> maybe ill just have to get the hang of copying stuff around with terminal
[07:37] <apokryphos> onewing: did you killall, though? Konqueror can still be running
[07:37] <apokryphos> onewing: what do you want to use with root to copy?
[07:37] <onewing> apokryphos: ok, didnt do that
[07:37] <onewing> apokryphos: just from run?
[07:38] <apokryphos> onewing: in Terminal, killall konqueror  and then just kdesu konqueror
[07:38] <Dionys> yes, but want to have the default design back
[07:39] <apokryphos> Dionys: yes, so select the "KDE Default"
[07:39] <Dionys> one sec.
[07:40] <ab> what are the packages installed in kubuntu during installation from the web for additional language support ? I had no connection during installation and would like to install them now ?
[07:41] <onewing> apokryphos: same problem =(
[07:42] <dodoptotron> i have made a primary linux partition hda2. What should i write in fstab to be able to mount it??
[07:42] <apokryphos> onewing: hm, seems to work fine here. What are you trying to move?
[07:43] <Dionys> No, it's almost than before, but konqueror has another directory structure
[07:43] <onewing> apokryphos: well, its more for ease of use than anything else, but currently im trying to get splashy working
[07:43] <Dionys> it's still white
[07:43] <onewing> apokryphos: which seems to be a task in itself
[07:43] <Dionys> and there's a larger intervall between the directory names
[07:43] <apokryphos> Dionys: changing the colour certainly wouldn't change directory structure
[07:43] <onewing> apokryphos: oh yes, it was working before, it just stopped working recently
[07:44] <apokryphos> onewing: odd. Are you using kde 3.4.1?
[07:44] <apokryphos> onewing: splashy? Splash screen, do you mean?
[07:44] <Dionys> well , I want to change the whole design than default
[07:44] <onewing> apokryphos: yeah, a bootup splash screen
[07:44] <apokryphos> Dionys: that's something entirely different; not just colours =)
[07:44] <_StarScream> anyone here using  breezy with PPC? If so is your kdm/kde working?
[07:44] <apokryphos> onewing: a kde login splash, or an actual bootsplash?
[07:45] <onewing> apokryphos: a bootsplash
[07:45] <error403> Does anybody here sucessfully have nvidia kernel module installed, so that Xorg is a little smoother on a nvidia card?
[07:45] <onewing> apokryphos: http://alioth.debian.org/projects/splashy/
[07:45] <apokryphos> onewing: that shouldn't be too hard; are you following the guide?
[07:46] <ValheruLord> hi all... is there no root pass in kubuntu ?
[07:46] <apokryphos> error403: nvidia drivers working fine here
[07:46] <Dionys> apokryphos: but that I wanted to talk the whole time ;-)
[07:46] <error403> apokryphos, how did you install them?
[07:46] <Dionys> and how can I do this? ;-)
[07:46] <apokryphos> !nvidia
[07:46] <ubotu> hmm... nvidia is http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BinaryDriverHowto
[07:46] <error403> apokryphos, did you install the actualy official nvidia drivers?
[07:46] <error403> thanks apokryphos, ill take a look
[07:47] <apokryphos> Dionys: heh, no worries. You'll need to change the style, window decoration, mainly, most likely
[07:47] <apokryphos> Changing the whole "theme" would be ideal, but that's not working you say?
[07:47] <apokryphos> onewing: I used a similar one, I think... one sec
[07:47] <Dionys> yes
[07:48] <Dionys> perhaps I don't know how ;-)
[07:48] <ValheruLord> hi all. i did'nt enter any root password at startup and now it wants the root password. whatta hell is that i can't su :( pls help
[07:48] <apokryphos> Dionys: does it successfully change to others?
[07:48] <Dionys> yes,
[07:48] <onewing> apokryphos: ok, if i can use one thats easier i will use it
[07:48] <gdh> ValheruLord: you use 'sudo' and type YOUR password.
[07:48] <error403> thanks apokryphos, its loading the nvidia drivers now!  i was only 1 step away from having done it...
[07:48] <error403> lol
[07:48] <Dionys> but I cannot find lipstik under "desgins"
[07:48] <apokryphos> Dionys: did you install it?
[07:48] <ValheruLord> gdh, you mean like "sudo xxx " then su xxx
[07:49] <gdh> no, 'sudo' is 'pseudo root'..
[07:49] <apokryphos> !rootsudo
[07:49] <ubotu> I heard rootsudo is at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo
[07:49] <Dionys> no, I think it should be the default, isn't it?
[07:49] <gdh> so if you want to edit your apt.sources, you'd do 'sudo vi /etc/apt/souces.list' etc.
[07:49] <apokryphos> Dionys: sudo apt-get install kde-style-lipstik
[07:49] <ValheruLord> gdh, i can't sudo apt-get install it wants poassword
[07:49] <apokryphos> Dionys: Plastik is default (I think)
[07:49] <gdh> ValheruLord: Yes, YOUR password.
[07:49] <Dionys> I make it a few times, but it doesn't work
[07:49] <apokryphos> ValheruLord: check that link -- it wants the user password
[07:50] <apokryphos> Dionys: when making themes/windecs you have to specify --prefix=/usr on the configure
[07:50] <apokryphos> onewing: the one I used was apparently http://splashy.alioth.debian.org/ but it's changed 
[07:50] <apokryphos> onewing: I can try help you with any parts though, if you want.
[07:50] <Dionys> no I only want to have the default back ;-)
[07:51] <apokryphos> Dionys: can you change to other themes, or is the kde default the only one it doesn't let you change to?
[07:51] <Dionys> where? 
[07:51] <Dionys> under "design" there are a few
[07:51] <apokryphos> not design
[07:52] <apokryphos> kcontrol -> Appearance and Themes -> Theme Manager
[07:52] <apokryphos> "Plastik", there, is the default
[07:53] <apokryphos> onewing: instructions at the page I gave looks pretty simple though; just have to install one package
[07:54] <Dionys> yes, in german I think it's "Erscheinungsbild" 
[07:54] <apokryphos> Dionys: can you change to other themes? 
[07:54] <Dionys> and there are "design" and "style" and so on but no "Theme Manager
[07:54] <apokryphos> :|
[07:54] <Dionys> yes under "design" I can
[07:55] <onewing> apokryphos: i think i missed the page, i tried it again and it hung
[07:55] <onewing> apokryphos: can you post it again
[07:55] <apokryphos> Dionys: what ones do you have there? "Plastik" "Keramik" etc.? 
[07:55] <apokryphos> Dionys: does it look like this: http://www.kde.org/screenshots/images/3.3/snapshot5.png
[07:55] <Dionys> no it was 
[07:56] <Dionys> but I change it how you say
[07:56] <Dionys> but for example konqueror has another background
[07:56] <apokryphos> ubotu: splashy is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/USplash | http://splashy.alioth.debian.org/
[07:56] <ubotu> apokryphos: okay
[07:56] <apokryphos> onewing: sure; second link above
[07:56] <Dionys> it isn't than before
[07:56] <apokryphos> Dionys: just the background is different?
[07:56] <Dionys> no the structure, too
[07:57] <Dionys> for example there's a intervall
[07:57] <Dionys> between the files and directories etc.
[07:57] <apokryphos> the structure at all won't change from any settings in appearance & settings
[07:57] <Dionys> it's not the default 
[07:57] <apokryphos> Dionys: try purging k-d-s as above, see if that helps =)
[07:58] <Dionys> k-d-s??
[07:58] <apokryphos> heh, I actually didn't post that :P
[07:59] <apokryphos> you could try sudo apt-get remove --purge kubuntu-default-settings ; sudo apt-get install kubuntu-default-settings
[07:59] <apokryphos> Questionable if that'll work actually, since it may just ignore the default settings the pack brings if it sees that you manually selected others
[08:00] <apokryphos> as in, if it works, it shouldn't, really :|
[08:00] <gdh> rename ~/.kde to ~/.kde_old, then ctrl-alt-backspace? :)
[08:00] <apokryphos> hehe, I just started typing that too :P
[08:00] <gdh> it should repopulate a fresh .kde with the /etc defaults? :)
[08:01] <apokryphos> gdh: yes, I think so -- good idea.
[08:01] <gdh> :)
[08:02] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i just plugged in my USB headset....usually windows shifts sound to it automatically.... how do i activate it in kubuntu?
[08:02] <LuNaTiK^GuY> bye apokryphos 
[08:03] <LuNaTiK^GuY> !headset
[08:03] <ubotu> LuNaTiK^GuY: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
[08:03] <LuNaTiK^GuY> !headphones
[08:03] <ubotu> LuNaTiK^GuY: I haven't a clue
[08:04] <gdh> LuNaTiK^GuY: I've no idea either, but it's a good question :)
[08:05] <LuNaTiK^GuY> haha KinfoCenter detected it and put it under Audio devices ok
[08:05] <LuNaTiK^GuY> thats allready a big step i guess
[08:05] <gdh> cool :)
[08:06] <ValheruLord> so sudo -s helps... but i want  a real root user for server usage.. how can i do it
[08:06] <gdh> more than I get - I'm told 'No informaion available about Soundcard' in the 'Sound' section of KInfoCenter .. yet my sound works find =)
[08:06] <gdh> ValheruLord: 'sudo passwd' 
[08:07] <gdh> I can't see how that helps 'server usage' ..
[08:07] <LuNaTiK^GuY> kmix found it too
[08:07] <gdh> bonus- must be an ALSA thing, then
[08:07] <nikkia> ValheruLord: sudo -i
[08:08] <nikkia> ValheruLord: btw, you don't *really* need a real root user in most situations, as most servers that rely on root's passwd use sasl these days
[08:08] <LuNaTiK^GuY> yeah...thing is...i have no clue how to make it work
[08:08] <ValheruLord> nikkia, i want to disable the root acces with sudo -s ?
[08:11] <ValheruLord> nikkia, impossible?
[08:11] <LuNaTiK^GuY> gdh: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-2803.html ....i'll try read this
[08:12] <gdh> god that sounds messy
[08:13] <gdh> am surprised there's no way to select the default device in the Control Centre..
[08:13] <LuNaTiK^GuY> so am i :(
[08:13] <LuNaTiK^GuY> this should be a trivial job to do
[08:13] <gdh> I mean, there's a dropdown to choose the MIDI Device... but not the PCM audio one? ffs...
[08:14] <gdh> I guess you can use the 'Override device location' if you know the /dev path to the second device...
[08:14] <gdh> you could try /dev/dsp1 I guess :)
[08:15] <gdh> will use Open Sound System rather than ALSA, but I know nothing about ALSA.
[08:15] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i know nothing about both :)
[08:15] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'm a total noov
[08:15] <LuNaTiK^GuY> *noob
[08:17] <LuNaTiK^GuY> !usb
[08:17] <ubotu> LuNaTiK^GuY: I don't know, could you explain it?
[08:17] <LuNaTiK^GuY> course u dont!
[08:17] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[08:18] <mats> !dvd
[08:18] <ubotu> well, dvd is There are many good free players for linux. Totem is installed in Ubuntu by default add totem-xine and voila! - Mplayer, XINE, VLC (Cross platform) are also very good. gstreamer-totem
[08:18] <mats> !dvd-burning
[08:18] <ubotu> mats: I don't know, could you explain it?
[08:18] <LuNaTiK^GuY> use k3b
[08:19] <LuNaTiK^GuY> nikkia: ever used a USB headset on linux...?
[08:19] <LuNaTiK^GuY> mine got detected all rite
[08:20] <mats> In windows you got dvdshrink.. how do i copy the dvd too my harddrive? 
[08:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i just dont know how to set it as the default device
[08:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> no idea mats....i have to try that out soon :(
[08:21] <mats> LuNaTiK^GuY: ok :)
[08:21] <LuNaTiK^GuY> firts i need to get all my hardware/software working
[08:22] <mats> thats not the easy part :)
[08:22] <LuNaTiK^GuY> no sh**
[08:22] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[08:23] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i must admit....i got too lazy with Win...
[08:23] <LuNaTiK^GuY> first i had Windows with M$ software
[08:23] <LuNaTiK^GuY> then i had windows with open source software
[08:24] <LuNaTiK^GuY> now i have Windows with open source dual booting with Linux
[08:24] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :) :) :) 
[08:24] <mats> and soon only linux
[08:24] <LuNaTiK^GuY> no no
[08:24] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i cant just throw away Win
[08:24] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wotever all Unix users may say
[08:24] <mats> yes you can!
[08:24] <LuNaTiK^GuY> not for games i wont
[08:24] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[08:24] <mats> cedega!!
[08:25] <LuNaTiK^GuY> oh come on!!
[08:25] <LuNaTiK^GuY> u cant be serious
[08:25] <LuNaTiK^GuY> cedega mite work with 30% of the games
[08:25] <mats> havnt tryed it.. im not a gamer.. 
[08:25] <LuNaTiK^GuY> giving me a 20% lag :)
[08:25] <mats> hehe
[08:25] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and random errors
[08:25] <mats> buy an xbox.. or ps2
[08:25] <LuNaTiK^GuY> welllll
[08:25] <mats> hehe
[08:25] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i dont happen to have the $$$
[08:25] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and xbox is still M$ :)
[08:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i like linux
[08:26] <mats> yes, but it allows you to only run linux on you computer
[08:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> its improving at a rapid rate
[08:26] <mats> good
[08:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i dont hate Win that much
[08:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'm an optimist...i like both
[08:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> for different reasons
[08:27] <mats> i dont like getting errors for no reason at all.. so, i dont like win :p
[08:27] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i dont like having a headset that doesnt work...so i like win :)
[08:27] <mats> haha
[08:27] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but i dont hate linux either
[08:27] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'm starting out and its cool already
[08:28] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and its a powerful learning tool for my uni course
[08:29] <mats> Never tried a usb-headset.. but im sure you get it going! 
[08:29] <LuNaTiK^GuY> sure.....solutions do exist...just hard to come by
[08:29] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and sometimes....hard to implement
[08:29] <mats> hehe, yes 
[08:30] <LuNaTiK^GuY> if i had grown up with linux the way i did with Win...i probably would already have a solution
[08:30] <aseigo> "desktop solutions usually don't exist and thost that do are always arcane"
[08:30] <LuNaTiK^GuY> yes aseigo....that is major concern
[08:31] <LuNaTiK^GuY> y build a desktop distro...if no desktop solutions exist?
[08:31] <aseigo> so .. we've come a long way =)
[08:31] <LuNaTiK^GuY> its an entire new window
[08:31] <LuNaTiK^GuY> in linux's philosophy
[08:31] <LuNaTiK^GuY> oh i remember playing games on a pc speaker ;)
[08:31] <LuNaTiK^GuY> HAHA
[08:32] <aseigo> well, the desktop side of it has been many years in the making ... we've just had a LONG hill to climb
[08:32] <LuNaTiK^GuY> it was fun though
[08:32] <mats> i dont like linuxs philosophy, but i love it anyway!
[08:32] <aseigo> mats: which philosophy is this?
[08:32] <LuNaTiK^GuY> aseigo.......is there a remote possibility to have "next next next" installations later on?
[08:32] <LuNaTiK^GuY> some guys from yoper told me YES
[08:32] <mats> aseigo: sorry, the gnu philosophy.. the communism ideal
[08:33] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[08:33] <aseigo> first off, gnu isn't communist
[08:34] <aseigo> secondly, the gnu philosophy isn't the "linux" philosophy. gnu is not linux
[08:34] <mats> i know i know, typed wrong.. 
[08:34] <mats> i ment gnu
[08:34] <Riddell> mats: you don't like freedom?
[08:34] <aseigo> Riddell: apparently not.
[08:35] <LuNaTiK^GuY> Riddell: freedom in hell or chained in heaven? that is the question ;)
[08:35] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i feel TOO free
[08:35] <aseigo> heh. nah.. there's also "freedom in reality"
[08:35] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'm lost in it
[08:35] <LuNaTiK^GuY> there's too much to discover
[08:35] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i fear it might backfire later on
[08:35] <mats> Riddell: im a capitalist 
[08:36] <mats> i love freedom
[08:36] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i love freedom....i just hate the console ;)
[08:36] <aseigo> mats: so am i
[08:37] <aseigo> mats: (a capitalist) .. i'm not sure what aspect of the gnu philosophy you see as being anticapitalist
[08:37] <TestMAD> i love console..
[08:37] <LuNaTiK^GuY> TestMAD: why???
[08:37] <TestMAD> one wrong typo and *POOF*..
[08:37] <TestMAD> there goes a few days hard work
[08:37] <LuNaTiK^GuY> so u love it ?
[08:38] <LuNaTiK^GuY> y not have a simple..."next next next"
[08:38] <TestMAD> yea..cus im too dumb to learn stuff for console..so i watch all yos guys mess  up and laff..
[08:38] <LuNaTiK^GuY> thats all Linux needs
[08:38] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :S
[08:38] <TestMAD> hehe
[08:38] <LuNaTiK^GuY> the rest is allready PERFECT
[08:38] <TestMAD> j/k
[08:38] <LuNaTiK^GuY> leave the console there
[08:39] <LuNaTiK^GuY> for those who want to use it
[08:39] <TestMAD> im new to linux and console isnt that bad..its actually kinda nice when something goes wrong
[08:39] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but lets also intoduce some friendlier aspects
[08:39] <LuNaTiK^GuY> y should i install a flash plugin thru the console?
[08:39] <LuNaTiK^GuY> y not just do it by clicking "install" in firefox
[08:39] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i mean
[08:39] <sirlordt> hello to all
[08:40] <mats> hello
[08:40] <LuNaTiK^GuY> as a Win user i got scared at first
[08:40] <LuNaTiK^GuY> sirlordt: helo
[08:40] <aseigo> mats: i mean, it's very similar in concept to public works roads in many ways
[08:40] <sirlordt> i had proble with shared folders
[08:40] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i like listening to Manu Chao while using console
[08:40] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[08:40] <aseigo> mats: if anything, it fits rather nicely into the capitalist concept of "externalization"
[08:41] <LuNaTiK^GuY> is Linux a male-dominated area?
[08:41] <LuNaTiK^GuY> (just asking)
[08:41] <sirlordt> i configured the kde control center to "simple share users"
[08:41] <mats> LuNaTiK^GuY: no
[08:41] <aseigo> LuNaTiK^GuY: IT in general is
[08:41] <aseigo> LuNaTiK^GuY: simply due to the lack of female participants.
[08:41] <sirlordt> but the simple user no have the share anything
[08:42] <LuNaTiK^GuY> even if i wanted to participate........i'm like never gonna reach the level you guys are in
[08:42] <sirlordt> i entered in the share pallete in properties folder but always show "configure the shared folder"
[08:43] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but i like the way hexadecimals were removed :)
[08:43] <LuNaTiK^GuY> and KDE intorduced
[08:43] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[08:43] <LuNaTiK^GuY> looks a tad better HAHA
[08:43] <mats> aseigo: and where do you find collectivism in capitalism?
[08:44] <sirlordt> any users here try to make this before??? (share folders in kde 3.4.x)??
[08:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i never connected a network
[08:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :(
[08:44] <aseigo> mats: consortiums? industry standards groups? 
[08:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> is there any future kde preview?
[08:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> 3.5
[08:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> or so
[08:44] <sirlordt> my samba config work i have view win machines a browse to shares
[08:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> or 4.0
[08:45] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i'm off for now
[08:45] <LuNaTiK^GuY> bbl ;)
[08:45] <LuNaTiK^GuY> an hour or so
[08:45] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[08:45] <LuNaTiK^GuY> enjoy
[08:45] <aseigo> imats: moreover there is nothing in capitalism that says "collectivism is wrong". 
[08:45] <aseigo> mats: moreover there is nothing in capitalism that says "collectivism is wrong". 
[08:46] <aseigo> mikl: and even more importantly, i think our current implementation of capitalism is far from perfect ...
[08:46] <aseigo> fuck. stupid tab completion
[08:46] <aseigo> that was for mats too ;)
[08:46] <mats> i thought so..
[08:46] <aseigo> mats: there are changes happening within the capitalist world towards ethics and new understandings of economic interaction
[08:47] <aseigo> Riddell: you have a cuss word highlighter? seriously?
[08:47] <aseigo> fuck me!
[08:47] <aseigo> ;)
[08:47] <Riddell> aseigo: just so I can keep an eye on the troublemakers
[08:48] <mats> aseigo: Im not thinking of the capitalism we see to day .. witch isnt pure capitalism.. Lassiez-fair capitalism is the pure.. never tried though. Collectivism is unmoral. If every man does things for him selv, everyone would be happy.
[08:49] <aarcane> Hi, I made a custom color theme as my user and I'm trying to make it the default for kdm.  I disabled the kubuntu theme, and am using the stock kde greeter, and want to apply my color theme to it, but despite having the settings for it set in the kdm config pannel, I can't manage to actually make the colors show upl.
[08:50] <sirlordt> ok never respond to me ...
[08:50] <sirlordt> :(
[08:50] <aseigo> mats: blah .. you've been reading too much anne rand for your own good
[08:51] <mats> aseigo: Like mp3.. Everybody wants to have freedom to copy a cd to mp3.But this isnt freedom, its a communism idea. You have NO rights to copy a cd to mp3.. if the record company say no
[08:51] <aseigo> mats: well, actually, if the owner of the property says no.
[08:51] <aseigo> mats: but you're committing a classical logical mistake here:
[08:51] <mats> aseigo: Ayn Rand is the queen
[08:51] <aseigo> "if a is a subset of b and not a then all not b"
[08:52] <aseigo> no, she was a decent writer with very wrong ideas
[08:52] <mats> aseigo: i thought you said you were a capitalist_
[08:52] <mats> ?
[08:52] <aseigo> i am. ayn rand is not the definition of capitalism
[08:52] <mats> so, adam smith and Ludwig Von Mieses is also wrong?
[08:52] <aseigo> she's the definition of selfish bitch with no real world experience
[08:53] <aseigo> you think adam smith and ayn rand had similar philosphies? hehe
[08:53] <aseigo> the fact is that there are times when you could benefit greater by acting for yourself at the expense of others
[08:54] <mats> no,von mieses econmics is the ringht one - and i think that ayn would have supportet it
[08:54] <aseigo> which in turn leads to a non-sustainable cycle that eventually destroys yourself
[08:54] <sirlordt> this the channel for kunbuntu support or the politics??
[08:54] <aseigo> there's a reason why we have government control on various things, ranging from drugs allowed to sell on the market to rights to bandwidth
[08:54] <aseigo> sirlordt: kubuntu =)
[08:55] <aarcane> sirlordt, polotics :)
[08:55] <Riddell> sirlordt: it's sunday, we get distracted :)
[08:55] <sirlordt> thanks
[08:55] <Riddell> sirlordt: good way to share files is kpf, kicker -> add applet -> public file server
[08:55] <aseigo> mats: self interest is not the only motivation that works, nor does it always succeed
[08:55] <aarcane> I hope sunday is casual dress...  'cause if not, too late >,.,<
[08:56] <insanekane> I opened an encrypted email in Kmail, and unfortunately, I typed my password wrong. How can I force KMail to re-ask the password ?
[08:56] <sirlordt> thanks riddell 
[08:56] <aseigo> mats: i agree that collectivism is not the solution in all situations .. but nor is it always the least useful concept, and often is works
[08:56] <aseigo> insanekane: if you types the password wrong it should ask again the next time you click on an encrypted mail
[08:56] <insanekane> collectivism ?
[08:57] <Riddell> aarcane: what does this give you?  grep ColorScheme /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc
[08:57] <insanekane> aseigo: it just doesnt :/
[08:57] <aseigo> insanekane: working for the group rather than the individual (though the latter may benefit anyways)
[08:57] <insanekane> aseigo: it just shows "Error: Bad passphrase"
[08:57] <insanekane> aseigo: right
[08:57] <sirlordt> Riddell the public file server what protocol use?? http??
[08:57] <Riddell> sirlordt: yes, http
[08:57] <aarcane> ColorScheme=Suzanns Theme
[08:58] <mats> Working for you self allways gives you the bigest penefits
[08:58] <sirlordt> mmm very good no ms protocols any can access to him
[08:58] <aseigo> mats: i suggest you go study game theory then
[08:59] <mats> aseigo: :-) thats game.. not real world. 
[08:59] <apokryphos> Enlightenment CVS is looking seriously pretty cool
[08:59] <apokryphos> nice lil' lightweight DE. Very cool effects.
[08:59] <aseigo> mats: as i said, i suggest you go study it. 
[08:59] <sirlordt> Riddell: how access file share??
[08:59] <mats> aseigo: I dont see where you can get capitalism and have a goverment who dont allow free drugs..
[08:59] <nikkia> apokryphos: i must admit a fondness for E's amiga-like screens
[08:59] <aseigo> mats: you do know that game theory is a fundamental part of the math of economic theory, right?
[08:59] <Riddell> sirlordt: click on the panel applet and choose new server
[09:00] <apokryphos> nikkia: not sure if you want to, but there's a repository with Enlightenment CVS, which has a lot of working stuff with it
[09:00] <sirlordt> Riddell: http://myip:/???
[09:00] <nikkia> apokryphos: erm, yeah, repository, that'd help me right now :P
[09:00] <apokryphos> they've really sorted out the previous ugliness I thought it had
[09:00] <apokryphos> nikkia: you still have it on the laptop, no?
[09:00] <Riddell> sirlordt: yes  http://myip:8001/
[09:00] <aseigo> mats: what?! a gov that DOESN'T allow free drugs? wtf does that have to do with capatalism? or are you just arguing like a drowning man swims now?
[09:00] <mats> aseigo: i know, but the thery is wrong.. 
[09:00] <nikkia> apokryphos: a laptop that only supports 'vesa' as the X driver, and even then, slowly :)
[09:01] <apokryphos> nikkia: it is looking quite nice; some cool lil' affects. i.e. fire on the bottom etc
[09:01] <insanekane> mats: what theory ?
[09:01] <apokryphos> nikkia: well, E is a lightweight DE ;-)
[09:01] <sirlordt> Riddell: my firewall must permit the access logical no??
[09:01] <Riddell> sirlordt: yes
[09:01] <nikkia> apokryphos: not THAT lightweight, twm taxes my laptop :P
[09:01] <insanekane> mats: if you really believe individualism provides greatest benefits, well, you ought to read a lot of economics before you should claim such things
[09:02] <apokryphos> nikkia: ok, but you're missing out :P
[09:02] <nikkia> apokryphos: i may compile it, sometime :P
[09:02] <mats> aseigo: free drugs is one of many basic thinks.. A goverment who only controls police, military and the court-house wil survive.. drugs is one of the things that makes freedom in the country. 
[09:02] <apokryphos> Good idea. Not sure when they're releasing officail 1.7 -- will check.
[09:02] <jpatrick> cya you all later
[09:02] <sirlordt> Riddell: thanks more use full solution
[09:02] <nikkia> apokryphos: and i know how nice E looks, altho i always found that it had some fundamental flaws particularly in the virtual screens layout (no easy way to keyboard switch between them in sequence, etc)
[09:02] <apokryphos> bye jpatrick :)
[09:03] <Riddell> sirlordt: you're welcome.  I wish kpf had a better user interface though
[09:03] <insanekane> mats: narcotics is such a controversial thing ... try to apply your logic to nuclear weapons, etc
[09:03] <mats> insanekane: i have.. iv read marx, adam smith, milton freeman, von mieses and a lot ather.
[09:03] <nikkia> argggggh!!!
[09:03] <insanekane> mats: my math teacher once said "you cannot read math. you can only do math"
[09:03] <mats> every free contry sould have nuclear if the want to.
[09:03] <nikkia> apokryphos: they fixed that damned stretch-SUV already ! :(
[09:03] <apokryphos> nikkia: could possibly make a shortcut, I'd presume? I think the using the mouse, as you can here could be good if you got used to it.
[09:03] <nikkia> it just drove by my window, offending my eyes, again
[09:04] <aseigo> mats: so you think a government should stay out of the verification of drugs for public consumption?
[09:04] <apokryphos> hahaha
[09:04] <insanekane> mats: my father told me once "reading a swimming instruction manual, doesn't mean you can swim or learn it thereof"
[09:04] <apokryphos> nikkia: they probably slipped the guy an extra 50 and bam! ;-)
[09:04] <mats> aseigo: yes
[09:04] <nikkia> apokryphos: no, the problem is, E's virtual screens are split, so if you have 4 screens, they'll be numbered 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B...
[09:04] <nikkia> you can define a shortcut to switch between A/B, or 1/2, but not 1A->1B->2A->2B
[09:04] <insanekane> mats: thats nonsense ... there are a lot of non-working, toxic marvel medicines out there
[09:04] <aseigo> mats: so then operating in the self interest drug companies would release drugs that haven't been properly tested 
[09:05] <apokryphos> nikkia: hm, yes, that could be annoying. 
[09:05] <aseigo> mats: realize that they already try and get away with this as is
[09:05] <mats> insanekane: yes, and the learn that the shouldnt be using it.. 
[09:05] <apokryphos> nikkia: I really like their version of alt+tab though. Window comes into focus, mouse goes to app
[09:05] <aseigo> mats: and this would result in the maiming and/or death of untold thousands ...
[09:05] <aseigo> mats: there is a REASON why "free" nations have things like the FDA
[09:06] <insanekane> mats: case in point: since there is no administrative setup for it, in India, companies routinely sell drugs and chemicals which have been removed from US markets by the FDA
[09:06] <aseigo> mats: it arose in response to the "self motivation" philosophy espoused by Rand NOT WORKING
[09:06] <mats> aseigo: i think that people has a brain for them self.. doing drugs is a stupid think.
[09:06] <aseigo> mats: this has nothing to do with thoery, but historical experience
[09:06] <aseigo> mats: i'm talking about pharmaceutical drugs
[09:06] <mats> no nation is FREE to day..
[09:06] <apokryphos> define "free" :P
[09:06] <aseigo> mats: that's why put the term in quotes. 
[09:06] <apokryphos> we wouldn't have free moral agency by many presupposed definitions
[09:07] <mats> apokryphos: freedom to speak. My freedom stops where yours begin.
[09:07] <aseigo> mats: anyways, i don't have more time for this discussion today, but really .. go study game theory, go read up on the history of various social contracts ... go find out about the social contracts being put into place today and discover WHY
[09:07] <insanekane> mats: freedom to speak != freedom to sell untestes drugs
[09:07] <apokryphos> mats: you think you're not free to speak? :)
[09:08] <sirlordt> Riddell: ready to share ;) one more thanks
[09:08] <aseigo> mats: Rand has been discreditted much in the same way Marx has been ... there are still adherents to both, but it doesn't mean it works in the real world
[09:08] <insanekane> Marx discredited ?
[09:08] <mats> apokryphos: Iam, but im not free to use drugs. Not to take my own life. Nore eather to sell drugs
[09:08] <apokryphos> Marx was recently voted "Greatest Philosopher ever" by BBC4 Poll :Z
[09:08] <aseigo> mats: hum.. you do realize that "my freedom stops where yours begins" doesn't really fit into a randian world ;)
[09:08] <nikkia> welcome uniq, fellow xs26 user :P
[09:09] <apokryphos> mats: you're free to do all those, but doing so you'll have to accept the consequences. 
[09:09] <insanekane> aseigo: still no luck on the KMail thing ... is there some file I can delete to make this happen ?
[09:09] <apokryphos> mats: needless to say, some countries permit euthanasia
[09:09] <insanekane> damnit
[09:10] <mats> apokryphos: and one of the consequences is to take away my freedom. Sending me to prison.
[09:10] <Riddell> insanekane: restart kmail?
[09:10] <insanekane> Riddell: tried .. doesnt do it :/
[09:10] <apokryphos> mats: you're using various definitions of freedom. You don't have absolute freedom, ever, of course. That would be an odd concept, anyhow.
[09:10] <gdh> apokryphos: "[19:02]  * apokryphos definitely needs a sleep. Bye everyone." - isn't it now wayy past your bedtime? ;)
[09:10] <error403> just a quick question - is /usr/local/java the best place to install a JRE to?
[09:11] <apokryphos> gdh: quick nap before work ;-)
[09:11] <gdh> That's funny - I wait until I get to the office...
[09:11] <insanekane> Riddell: also, for some odd reason, Kmail->KWallet integration doesnt work :/
[09:11] <mats> apokryphos: i use one defintion of freedom. My freedom stops where yours begin
[09:11] <apokryphos> error403: just enable backports and install the sun-{something} package
[09:11] <error403> backports?
[09:11] <apokryphos> mats: that's not a definition.
[09:11] <mats> Marx was a fool
[09:11] <mats> :p
[09:11] <mats> no
[09:11] <apokryphos> gdh: I do sometimes, too :P. Try to stay awake for first few hours though, at least.
[09:11] <insanekane> mats: alteast not as bad as Rand ;)
[09:12] <error403> apokryphos, backports?
[09:12] <apokryphos> Rand had a few interesting concepts. I'm interested in reading her just to challenge all those who boast that Rand is a pseudophilosopher
[09:12] <apokryphos> !backports
[09:12] <ubotu> rumour has it, backports is http://backports.ubuntuforums.org | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports
[09:13] <insanekane> apokryphos: i don't think she is a pseudo-..., i just think her philosophy is too ... clinical
[09:13] <AnHu> apokryphos: I have now the default style again ;-)
[09:13] <apokryphos> insanekane: I can't help but think some silly people dismiss her because she's a woman ;-)
[09:14] <apokryphos> AnHu: cool; did moving .kde work, then?
[09:14] <insanekane> apokryphos: actually, i didn't know she was a woman, until much after i read fountainhead
[09:14] <mats> apokryphos: i started up by saying that the gnu philosphy is communist, and now everyone speaks like a sosical-demokrats :)
[09:14] <_shawn_> hiwhat's KDEDIR and QTDIR on knubuntu?
[09:14] <_shawn_> *kubuntu
[09:14] <AnHu> yes I delete .kde
[09:14] <insanekane> mats: gnu is not communist
[09:14] <apokryphos> insanekane: did you enjoy it? I picked up copies of those from a charity shop the other day; been meaning to dig in, but my reading list is just so long at the mo...
[09:15] <BROKEN_LADDER> THE KDE control center is messed up bad
[09:15] <_shawn_> hi what's KDEDIR and QTDIR on kubuntu? help please
[09:15] <apokryphos> _shawn_: I don't think there should be a KDEDIR; that was obsolete and KDEDIRS is used
[09:15] <apokryphos> which is /usr
[09:15] <insanekane> apokryphos: yes, i did enjoy it ... though, i thought that Roark character was too artificial although, im sure there are people like that... i personally wouldn't consider him to be a role-model of any kind
[09:15] <BROKEN_LADDER> when i try to change the login manager settings, i type in the right password but then it goes back to the main "welcome" blue background screen.
[09:15] <_shawn_> ok what's KDEDIRS
[09:15] <aseigo> _shawn_: try: kde-config --prefix
[09:15] <insanekane> apokryphos: except perhaps, as an exemplar of some way of life
[09:16] <apokryphos> aseigo: don't think he has kubuntu...
[09:16] <_shawn_> usr... that's it?
[09:16] <apokryphos> insanekane: I like the concept behind "Atlas Shrugged"
[09:16] <mats> apokryphos: and that is?
[09:16] <insanekane> apokryphos: you mean the concept behind the name ?
[09:16] <apokryphos> yes, and the picture. 
[09:17] <apokryphos> mats: try to look for the cover to Atlas Shrugged
[09:17] <insanekane> apokryphos: yes very nice ... but the situation is way to artificial .. fountainhead was bearable in that sense
[09:17] <mats> the ideal man
[09:17] <insanekane> err .. way too artificial
[09:17] <apokryphos> I only really presumed that Atlas was a represenative of man, rather than being the ideal man
[09:17] <apokryphos> I could be real wrong :P
[09:18] <insanekane> apokryphos: yeah, it is representative of the ideal *men* of society
[09:18] <apokryphos> suffice it to say she's not my primary interest in Philosophy
[09:18] <apokryphos> Ok, I see. 
[09:19] <mats> apokryphos: nietzhe?
[09:19] <insanekane> apokryphos: i wouldn't go so far as to call it a philosophy (so many things pass for "philosophy" these days)
[09:19] <apokryphos> mats: yuck :P
[09:19] <mats> or something like that 
[09:19] <apokryphos> insanekane: Rand is a Philosopher, even if you think she's a pseudo one. Objectivism is a Philosophical theory
[09:19] <apokryphos> Nietzsche
[09:20] <insanekane> apokryphos: i dont think she is a psuedo one
[09:20] <mats> hard name to spell :p
[09:20] <apokryphos> ok, cool.
[09:20] <apokryphos> mats: though I don't know him well enough to properly dislike him ;-)
[09:20] <gdh> I feel a little inadquate in this discussion. Er, how about that Krita, beats Photoshop any day, eh? ;)
[09:20] <insanekane> apokryphos: but i do not think Objectivism is a philosophy, in the same way i object to logo being a programming language (although, by all definitions it is)
[09:21] <mats> apokryphos: :)
[09:21] <apokryphos> insanekane: you evidently have a different definition in mind, and you should essentially be using another one. 
[09:21] <JakubS_> why, oh why kubuntu sets bitstream vera as default font? most latin2 chars appear as blocks - really ugly :-(
[09:22] <insanekane> apokryphos: sure. the reasoning behind al queda's 9/11 attack was philosophical
[09:22] <apokryphos> insanekane: needless to say, you're going way against the consensus. It's plainly known as "Rand's Objectivist Philosophy". 
[09:22] <insanekane> apokryphos: no, i dont differ in definitions. i differ in prudence :)
[09:22] <insanekane> apokryphos: note my statement in brackets -> (although, by all definitions it is)
[09:23] <apokryphos> insanekane: err... yeah, sure. :|
[09:23] <error403> apokryphos, i tried the backport, was a bit of a disaster...
[09:23] <apokryphos> error403: why?
[09:24] <apokryphos> did you install sun-j2re1.5?
[09:24] <insanekane> apokryphos: my point is this. everything is philosophy, if you go by definitions. pretty much every branch of science and the social sciences began as philosophical questions.
[09:24] <insanekane> apokryphos: but, i wouldn't call Organic chemistry, a philosophy
[09:24] <error403> apokryphos, ill try that one...
[09:25] <apokryphos> insanekane: everything really isn't Philosophy. And we don't have to go "just by definitions". We have shared understandings for things like this
[09:25] <insanekane> apokryphos: the problem with Rand, and with Communism, is that it requires everyone to behave in a certain way ... it just doesn't work that way.
[09:25] <apokryphos> insanekane: Science differs from Philosophy in that science works and concentrates upon manipulating and observing things within a given closed environment
[09:26] <insanekane> apokryphos: science differs from philosophy only in one point: the scientific method.
[09:26] <apokryphos> insanekane: suffice it to say that's a pretty major point
[09:26] <ValheruLord> why is not grubconf in repository
[09:26] <apokryphos> but, if you can acknowledge Philosophy's discursiveness then you can understand why the ancient's really only had two subjects: philosophy and maths
[09:27] <apokryphos> or geometry
[09:27] <insanekane> apokryphos: and rhetoric, and music
[09:27] <insanekane> and of course, gymnastics :)
[09:27] <apokryphos> insanekane: things like rhetoric and Literature etc. came under Philosophy, you'll note
[09:27] <TestMAD> apokryphos and insanekane: maybe a little off topic..but in your opinions what kind of society was star trek?
[09:27] <apokryphos> as did Psychology, Sociology etc
[09:27] <insanekane> apokryphos: ST ?
[09:27] <apokryphos> ..and knows little of Political Philosophy :P
[09:28] <apokryphos> insanekane: Star Trek...
[09:28] <insanekane> apokryphos: dunno abt that. I speak from my readings. however, my readings may not be as comprehensive as yours :)
[09:28] <TestMAD> was it socialist or communist?
[09:28] <nikkia> woooah, that scared the bejubus out of me!
[09:28] <apokryphos> no idea
[09:28] <insanekane> TestMAD: perhaps, knowledge society :)
[09:28] <error403> another question... usually, there is a msttcorefonts package, however on Ubuntu/Kubuntu it seems to be non-existant
[09:28] <marsh> hey.... this kubuntu stuff is great!
[09:28] <nikkia> i was staring out the window, just enjoying the sunset, when suddenly a bright light appeared in the sky right in front of me...
[09:29] <apokryphos> Sounds like War of the Worlds
[09:29] <nikkia> it was a 767 on appproach to stanstead at about 800' turning on its landing lights :P
[09:29] <TestMAD> ufo's
[09:29] <TestMAD> better watch for the black helicopters now
[09:29] <TestMAD> heh
[09:29] <apokryphos> error403: Do you have Universe/Multiverse?
[09:29] <marsh> but anyone know how I can repeat a search in a browser window? (ie after using '/string -to-find', I cant repeat the search!?!?
[09:30] <JakubS_> f3
[09:30] <nikkia> apokryphos: i'm on the 'long slog' now, so i have plenty of time to waste before building something else :P
[09:30] <apokryphos> adieu people =)
[09:30] <error403> apokryphos, yeah
[09:30] <nikkia> (ie, building Qt)
[09:30] <apokryphos> !find msttcorefonts
[09:30] <ubotu> msttcorefonts: (Installer for Microsoft TrueType core fonts), section multiverse/x11, is optional. Version: 1.2ubuntu1 (hoary), Packaged size: 21 kB, Installed size: 160 kB
[09:30] <apokryphos> error403: there
[09:30] <error403> yeah
[09:30] <apokryphos> nikkia: enjoy =). TTYL.
[09:31] <marsh> Nikkia - had one at about the same height go directly overhead approaching Bristol Airport last week - rediculously low!
[09:31] <error403> i tried apt-get install msttcorefonts tho
[09:31] <nikkia> apokryphos: see ya later
[09:31] <error403> and it was empty
[09:31] <nikkia> marsh: they're often low here, but i've never been looking at 'a blank sky' and suddenly the plane appear because he just turned on his lights before
[09:31] <marsh> nikkia - i get the picture, fair play!
[09:32] <TestMAD> see..im glad i live in a little pudunk town now..
[09:32] <TestMAD> no fear of airplanes crashing in my back yard
[09:33] <nikkia> testmad, ever seen the maps of air-routes on 9/11 ?
[09:33] <marsh> anyone know about that 'repeat search' sequence? I looked in loads of places, but only getting 'FIND NEXT (F3)' keys, not the /string search... 's really frustrating me
[09:33] <TestMAD> nikkia: no
[09:33] <nikkia> testmad, it scared me more just how 100% covered the sky was prior to the attacks
[09:34] <nikkia> testmad, because the maps showed traces of aircraft for a 1hour period, the lines just cluttered the whole map ;P
[09:34] <TestMAD> i doubt there would have been anything important to blowup in stonewood WV tho
[09:34] <nikkia> testmad, there's the fact that blowing up WV could be fun in itself :P
[09:35] <marsh> oh shit - F3 works for it! sorry people - trimewastin' there - - teach me to 'presume' pessamistically, eh?
[09:35] <TestMAD> but..on the other hand i was living in houston TX at the time that happened..the company i worked for gave everybody the day off when it happened.
[09:36] <TestMAD> i just remember getting a call from my wife at the other store location saying that we were all told that we could go home and that we should watch the news.
[09:37] <JakubS_> time for ultimate distro speed test - launching openoffice :-)
[09:38] <paines> hi
[09:38] <othernoob> how do i check the firmware of a cd/dvd drive?
[09:39] <nikkia> othernoob: hdparm -I ?
[09:39] <JakubS_> ugh, 64s -  bad :-(
[09:39] <nikkia> hdparam -I even
[09:41] <nikkia> no hdparm was right :P
[09:41] <othernoob> thanks
[09:43] <paulo> does anyone know where the setting is to only cycle windows from the current desktop with Alt+Tab, or from all desktops?
[09:44] <insanekane> paulo: configure desktop ?
[09:46] <paulo> insanekane: I couldn't find it there
[09:48] <paulo> I only saw the taskbar "Show Windows from all Desktops"
[09:49] <ValheruLord> how can i install gnome in kubuntu
[09:49] <insanekane> paulo: me can't find it either :/
[09:50] <paulo> insanekane: ok, thanks for trying :)
[09:52] <insanekane> paulo: np :)
[09:54] <othernoob> mmh. great.. nec only offers firmware updates with windows installer..
[09:56] <TestMAD> dont you just hate that
[09:56] <error403> yes
[09:56] <marsh> ok - now i got that sorted...
[10:01] <marsh> I bin trying to network 2 machine with a x-over lead, and am having problems finding out how to get the machine to see each other - the closest I've found to what I need is a RH guide (or at least, the closest I've found that I can understand). Dataw0lf has a great HOWTO for beginners, but seems to still be writing the intermediate one. RHseem to be close - but the system is set up differently, still - what I'm after is - how to
[10:01] <marsh> the other machine.
[10:02] <ValheruLord> are there any gui tools to configure grub in kde
[10:03] <ValheruLord> kubuntu does'nt give a grub list and see windows!!
[10:03] <ztonzy> there's no bluetoothstuff  for KDE ? 
[10:04] <TestMAD> just for anyone lookin for a cheap 80gig HD - http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=635135
[10:04] <ValheruLord> ztonzy, kdebluetooth?
[10:05] <ztonzy> ValheruLord: yes
[10:05] <ztonzy> I can't install it
[10:05] <ztonzy> http://kde-bluetooth.sourceforge.net/  found that...possible to use "Sid" Repositries for Kubuntu ?
[10:05] <ValheruLord> well i asked also a question but noone answered :)
[10:06] <marsh> how do i set the IP address of my eth0 so another machine can ping it?
[10:06] <marsh> (or find the ip address)?
[10:06] <ztonzy> marsh: just ping ? :)
[10:06] <ztonzy> ValheruLord: ah
[10:06] <gdh> marsh: Control Centre -> Internet & Network -> Network Settings ?
[10:06] <ztonzy> ValheruLord: might download the source
[10:07] <ValheruLord> ztonzy, yes compile and install :P
[10:07] <ztonzy> ValheruLord: :)  lazy ?
[10:08] <ValheruLord> ztonzy, ./configure make make install :P
[10:08] <ValheruLord> is it hard?
[10:08] <Riggzy_Linux> Anyone know what that "Music" slider in ALSA is mapped to?
[10:08] <gdh> Riggzy_Linux: Entirely dependent on the driver + your card :)
[10:09] <ztonzy> ValheruLord: heh
[10:09] <ztonzy> ValheruLord: the sources has "beta" tag on it
[10:09] <ValheruLord> is there a kde gui for grub config????
[10:09] <ValheruLord> ztonzy, there must be a stable release to
[10:09] <ValheruLord> too
[10:09] <nikkia> right, that's Qt build
[10:09] <nikkia> built
[10:10] <ztonzy> ValheruLord: sure
[10:10] <gdh> ValheruLord: Sure, sudo kedit /boot/grub/menu.lst
[10:10] <ztonzy> dunno where tho
[10:10] <marsh> gdh control settings have th eth cards freyed out - i tried admin mode, no joy :(
[10:10] <marsh> ztonzy: ping what? i dont know the ipaddress for the other  machine
[10:11] <marsh> :confused:
[10:11] <ValheruLord> gdh, but it is my friends kubuntu and he is a n00b.. he cant do in that way .. i can give him my file but my comp. has no windows and no gates :D
[10:11] <gdh> marsh: Admin mode made it go back to a generic 'choose a category' screen?
[10:11] <marsh> gdh: y
[10:11] <ztonzy> marsh: sorry , I am tired..dont listen to me 8)
[10:11] <gdh> marsh: That's a known bug :)
[10:11] <gdh> marsh: open a Konsole and type 'sudo kcontrol'
[10:11] <marsh> gdh - fantastic! ;)
[10:11] <marsh> ztonzy: np mate
[10:12] <Riggzy_Linux> gdh - oh joy
[10:12] <gdh> ValheruLord: I know little about grub, so can't even provide an example of the right syntax..
[10:12] <ValheruLord> ok
[10:12] <gdh> no Windows on this machine, either..
[10:12] <gdh> google's likely yout best bet
[10:12] <Riggzy_Linux> is there any way to map a programs output to that Music slider?
[10:13] <gdh> ValheruLord:  http://www.aboutdebian.com/dualboot.htm
[10:13] <gdh> ?
[10:13] <ValheruLord> gdh, why is'nt there the grubconf package
[10:13] <ztonzy> hmm n one ?
[10:13] <ValheruLord> i made with this
[10:13] <ztonzy> no*
[10:13] <gdh> ValheruLord: No idea :)
[10:13] <ztonzy> I want bluuueee for kde
[10:13] <ValheruLord> ztonzy, wait a sec.
[10:14] <ValheruLord> ztonzy, deb http://fred.hexbox.de/debian ./
[10:14] <ValheruLord> add this
[10:14] <ValheruLord> :)
[10:14] <ValheruLord> for a deb package
[10:14] <ztonzy> that's for "Sid" ?
[10:14] <marsh> gdh: does that set the ip address for that machine on the ntwork? 
[10:14] <ValheruLord> ztonzy, may be it can be installed on kubuntu too
[10:14] <ztonzy> ValheruLord: would it work ?
[10:15] <gdh> marsh: That just runs the Control Centre as root, so you have the ability to change network settings.
[10:15] <ValheruLord> ztonzy, i don't know but why not trying ? :)
[10:16] <marsh> gdh - yeah, i tried to change them, but geting an error - on entering 192.168.0.1 as IP address, it says the 'format of specified broadcast is not valid.
[10:16] <ztonzy> ValheruLord: installed hehe
[10:16] <ValheruLord> ztonzy, ;)
[10:17] <marsh> gdh: does this mean I have to dig out the domain name of the other pc?
[10:17] <gdh> marsh: ... so what did you set the broadcast address to?
[10:17] <gdh> marsh: Sounds like you're using bogus information
[10:18] <marsh> gdh: sorry mate, i don't unserstand... :( - there was nothing asking for broadcast address
[10:19] <marsh> I'm trying to find out/set an IP address so that I know what to ping from pc#2
[10:19] <gdh> marsh: Hm, if you press 'Advanced Settings' then a 'Broadcast' paramater appears.. make sure that it's empty :)
[10:19] <gdh> I'm assuming the other settings there are IP addrses 192.168.0.1 and netmask 255.255.255.0
[10:19] <marsh> gdh, it is empty. I did look, but left it empty & closed it again...
[10:19] <marsh> gdh yes (other settings
[10:20] <marsh> )
[10:20] <gdh> what's the IP of the other machine? 192.168.0.<something> ?
[10:20] <marsh> it doesn't have one yet... (at least i dont think it does..) was trying to sort out this one first. that a bad move?
[10:21] <gdh> It doesn't make any difference what order you do it in :)
[10:21] <marsh> cool.
[10:21] <ztonzy> ValheruLord: works :)
[10:21] <gdh> I don't understand why you'd get that broadcast error :/
[10:21] <marsh> then why it not working?
[10:21] <ValheruLord> ztonzy, good :)
[10:21] <marsh> Hhmmmm... 
[10:22] <gdh> marsh: you can verify the settings on eth0 by just typing 'ifconfig'
[10:22] <gdh> eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:D0:B7:1D:D8:9F
[10:22] <gdh>           inet addr:10.0.0.23  Bcast:10.0.0.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
[10:22] <gdh> etc.
[10:22] <gdh> inet addr is the current IP address for that network card
[10:22] <marsh> gdh, yeah - but it doesn't give me the cards IP addres.... 
[10:22] <marsh> does it???
[10:22] <ztonzy> :)
[10:23] <marsh> or am i missing an option?
[10:23] <gdh> well, what are the first two lines of output from your 'ifconfig eth0' ?
[10:25] <marsh> how do i output the results of a command into the chat here?
[10:25] <ValheruLord> marsh, select them come here and click right and left together
[10:26] <gdh> marsh: if you triple-click you will be able to select the lines
[10:26] <gdh> then paste witht he middle mouse button
[10:26] <marsh> eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:D0:B7:06:64:2D
[10:27] <marsh>           inet6 addr: fe80::2d0:b7ff:fe06:642d/64 Scope:Link
[10:27] <marsh> Hehehe - kde's good eh?
[10:27] <marsh> thanks ValheruLord 
[10:28] <marsh> but no IP address, as you can see... >:(
[10:28] <marsh> (although i have no idea what that inet6 address is...
[10:28] <gdh> the inet6 addrses is ignorable :)
[10:28] <ValheruLord> you can learn your ip
[10:29] <ValheruLord> www.whatismyip.com
[10:29] <gdh> That assumes the machine in question has  Internet access... and that site is only going to show the address of the router /ip masq box sharing access
[10:30] <gdh> marsh: sounds like you need to edit /etc/network/interfaces and set the 'eth0' block to be static rather than dhcp
[10:30] <gdh> marsh: see 'man interfaces' for a sample of teh syntax you need
[10:30] <marsh> gdh - hang on... I just realised that the 'config network' box in question is trying to configure inet access & I'm after local network configuring
[10:31] <marsh> gdh - i got ya!
[10:31] <marsh> gdh - thanks mate :)
[10:31] <gdh> marsh: They're one and the same thing .... you need to set an address on the LAN to be able to get internet access, too :)
[10:31] <marsh> I'll go check it out
[10:33] <marsh> gdh - cheers - i got the net acces on eth1, so eth0 is free to local network...
[10:33] <marsh> back in a bit...
[10:34] <gdh> ahh :)
[10:36] <ilba7r> hi i just got tired searching on gmail. Is there a spell checker in linux that check double words in a doc
[10:36] <ilba7r> aspell does not do it
[10:51] <marsh> another hard to find out question - is there any way to have sudo powers to edit a file when in konqueror?
[10:52] <gdh> marsh: Easy :)
[10:52] <marsh> I dont have permissions to edit interface, ad don't want to constantly open a new window & use vi when I could (possibly) use konqueror to edit a file that needs root permisions
[10:52] <gdh> marsh: Right click on the file -> Actions -> Edit as root
[10:52] <marsh> gdh. ;)
[10:54] <marsh> gdh :( - none of the authentication protocols specified are supported & host based authentication failed :(
[10:54] <marsh> dcopserver IS running...
[10:55] <marsh> but hang on - there is a root password that I dont know, isn't there...
[10:55] <marsh> id there a default root password when ubuntu is initially configured?
[10:55] <marsh> or did I just misstype twice...?
[10:57] <ubuntu> .
[10:57] <marsh> Ooops.
[10:57] <marsh> (sorry)
[10:57] <buz> marsh: misstyping twice DOES happen 
[10:59] <marsh> <- a bit red in the face
[11:00] <nikkia> so many dependancies :(
[11:01] <gdh> :))
[11:02] <nikkia> gdh, i'd forgotten just how many deps kde has
[11:04] <Blissex> marsh: dont worry, you can usually use 'sudo' to change that.
[11:04] <Blissex> marsh: or just boot into a rescue CD mount the '/' and edit '/etc/shadow'.
[11:09] <Fiercetactics> hello
[11:09] <marsh> Blissex: good plan! thx
[11:09] <marsh> ;)
[11:09] <Fiercetactics> in the normal #ubuntu room it says the demigods have stolen my voice......how can i fix that
[11:10] <nikkia> by not annoying them :P
[11:10] <Blissex> Fiercetactics: that means someone has placed a ''speak'' ban on you or you have to register.
[11:10] <Fiercetactics> its been like a week
[11:10] <Fiercetactics> i disagreed with someone now they wont let me talk
[11:11] <Blissex> Fiercetactics: some annoying ops put 2-4 week bans, and yes, it can be over trivial disagreements.
[11:11] <Blissex> Fiercetactics: try #Mandriva for a change :-)
[11:11] <LuNaTiK^GuY> hello free ppl :)
[11:11] <Fiercetactics> Blissex, so u think eventually i will be able to talk again
[11:11] <wirwzd> I'm quite expensive!
[11:12] <wirwzd> ;-)
[11:12] <LuNaTiK^GuY> lol
[11:13] <LuNaTiK^GuY> we all are
[11:13] <LuNaTiK^GuY> in different ways and means
[11:13] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i have good news for some ppl
[11:13] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i think i solved the aMSN issue of popping up windows for nothing :)
[11:13] <LuNaTiK^GuY> its nothing but an option
[11:14] <gdh> nikkia: Yes, deps are large. pre-compiled binary++ :)
[11:14] <wirwzd> Thers a popup windows for nothin option? Wierd
[11:14] <LuNaTiK^GuY> Tools/Preferences
[11:14] <LuNaTiK^GuY> goto Session
[11:14] <LuNaTiK^GuY> "My Messaging Interface"
[11:15] <LuNaTiK^GuY> When a contact opens a chat with me I want it to Be: DONT SHOW :)
[11:15] <LuNaTiK^GuY> like that a window pops up only if the contact actually DOES SEND something
[11:16] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wots the undernet server?
[11:18] <nikkia> gdh, yeah, except that pre-compiled binaries often don't include some of these features i'm installing anyway
[11:18] <nikkia> gdh, especially *cough* the restricted formats stuff :)
[11:19] <LuNaTiK^GuY> how can i kill an application?
[11:19] <gdh> =)
[11:19] <LuNaTiK^GuY> thru gui?
[11:19] <buz> mhh
[11:19] <buz> dunno
[11:19] <gdh> LuNaTiK^GuY: Ctrl-Alt-Escape
[11:19] <gdh> then click the window with the skull-and-crossbones cursor to kill
[11:19] <buz> hey cool
[11:19] <buz> i didnt know that one
[11:20] <LuNaTiK^GuY> yeah even my Kpanel disapperaed now :)
[11:20] <buz> i always used the konsole and kill or killall
[11:20] <gdh> =)
[11:20] <buz> is ctrl alt esc a kde or an X shortcut?
[11:21] <gdh> No idea
[11:21] <buz> mhh doesnt really matter
[11:21] <gdh> It doesn't work in GNOME.,,
[11:21] <buz> i always use kde anyway
[11:21] <buz> it would be a kde shortcut then, probably
[11:26] <LuNaTiK^GuY> why doesnt konversation provide a list of servers....xchat style?
[11:27] <LuNaTiK^GuY> i need to log on to undernet
[11:27] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but i dont know the entries i need :(
[11:40] <LuNaTiK^GuY> nikkia: r u there?
[11:42] <nikkia> yes?
[11:42] <LuNaTiK^GuY> how did ur LFS thingy go?
[11:43] <nikkia> still working on it
[11:43] <nikkia> more specifically, currently getting stuff ready to build KDE
[11:43] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[11:43] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wow
[11:43] <nikkia> *shrug* its not really hard
[11:43] <nikkia> just annoying boring
[11:44] <nikkia> annoyingly, even
[11:44] <crimsun> if it can be automated...
[11:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> of course...it aint hard for u maybe..........
[11:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> but for someone who barely knows how to use kmix properly........
[11:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> wellllllll
[11:44] <LuNaTiK^GuY> :)
[12:02] <nikkia> right, here goes KDE...