[12:05] <OddAbe19> so, exactly, HOW broken IS X, right now?
[12:57] <mdz> daniels: what's the name of the window manager that keith used for his demo?
[12:57] <mdz> daniels: and is there any video or such of it available online?
[01:01] <ogra> mdz, do you mean luminocity ?
 they say i must make a wallpaper for ubuntu of a piece of celery with peanut butter on it sitting on a plate overlooking a moon which drops down beneath a celestrial waterfall of stars, each running into each other 
[01:03] <ogra> but great !
[01:03] <dwarvenblade> ogra, yes the deliverer of eternal brillance from the planet peanut gave me this vision
[01:04] <ogra> hehe
[01:07] <ogra> dwarvenblade, PAINT IT !
[01:07] <ogra> :)
[01:08] <dwarvenblade> I will paint it with my tongue ring, a good idea
[01:49] <carl> can initrd.gz be mounted?
[01:49] <carl> or... where can I see how the installer's is built?
[01:53] <carl> got it
[01:54] <carl> there is a version mixup wiht the breezy installer 
[01:55] <carl> or did I fumble again...
[02:08] <CarlFK> yup.
[02:09] <marcin> hi all 
[02:09] <whiprush> mdz: http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog-images/monkey-hoot/WobblyWindowsIntro.ogg
[02:09] <bob2> (fridge)
[02:09] <whiprush> fridge!
[02:09] <ogra> FRIDGE !
[02:10] <marcin> I got a question about emacs packages for ubuntu - something related with debian policy 
[02:10] <marcin> can I talk here with someone who maintains these packages or is this wrong channel?
[02:16] <bob2> best to just ask
[02:17] <CarlFK> what kernel param do I pass the setup to specify the language and keyboard?
[02:17] <CarlFK> it seems to have changed in the last month or so
[02:18] <CarlFK> because this usedto work, but now I am being prompted: preseed/locale=en_US kbd-chooser/method=us 
[02:21] <marcin> bob2, ok then my question is - why you guys follow debian policy for emacs and use these emacsen-common scripts while you provide only one "flavor" of emacs (emacs21)
[02:22] <marcin> bob2, and why just not to provide really binary packages for emacs with byte-compiled files (.elc only) for emacs21 ?
[02:22] <marcin> bob2, for example emacs21-gnus, emacs21-cedet, emacs21-nxml and so on
[02:24] <bob2> I see at least emacs21-nox
[02:25] <ajmitch> marcin: following debian is a good idea usually because it /win 35
[02:25] <ajmitch> sigh
[02:25] <ajmitch> because it minimises the maintainence we have to do
[02:26] <marcin> ajmitch, ok, but these emacsen-common scripts are overcompilcated and buggy
[02:26] <bob2> if they're buggy, please file bugs
[02:26] <marcin> ajmitch, and while you want to provide things that just work than maybe this policy is not so good?
[02:27] <ajmitch> marcin: if someone has time to sit down & improve things then they can be fed back to debian as well
[02:30] <marcin> ajmitch, hmm ok then for now - I found a bug (problem when trying to install some emacs packages on hoary) what should I do with this?
[02:31] <ajmitch> file bug at the moment
[02:33] <marcin> you can try yourself - remove all emacs packages (and config files too - remove totally) and then apt-get install bbdb ecb (for example)
[02:34] <marcin> ajmitch, it should install emacs21 first and then install these packages but it doesn't - you will get an error because there is no emacs flavor available 
[02:35] <marcin> ajmitch, you need to install emacs21 first and then these packages - this is not the way apt and dependencies should work - right?
[02:35] <ajmitch> iirc, emacs21 shoul get installed first, but won't be configured when the packages that depend on it are unpacked
[03:26] <mdz> whiprush: thanks
[05:46] <lamont> emacs21: error while loading shared libraries: libXaw3d.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[05:46] <lamont> how very interesting and annoying
[06:09] <fabbione> morning
[06:10] <fabbione> hmmm
[06:12] <bddebian> Hello fabbione 
[06:12] <fabbione> hi
[07:13] <fabbione> daniels_: ping?
[07:14] <fabbione> can somebody be so kind to write a pipe ?
[07:15] <fabbione> because keyboard is doomed
[07:15] <fabbione> or tell me what pkg has xmodmap
[07:24] <schweeb> fabbione: appears as though none of my installed packages have xmodmap included in them
[07:25] <fabbione> i got owned by X upgrade
[07:25] <Aegir> fabbione, |
[07:25] <Aegir> :)
[07:25] <fabbione> my keyboard is basically useless
[07:25] <Aegir> That sucks
[07:26] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:26] <fabbione> bah
[07:26] <schweeb> fabbione: supposed to be included with xbase-clients though
[07:26] <fabbione> and a dollarsign please :)
[07:27] <fabbione> crap
[07:27] <fabbione> pointless
[07:27] <fabbione> i can't copy paste
[07:27] <fabbione> even the mouse is doomed
[07:27] <fabbione> DANIELS?
[07:27] <schweeb> I don't even have the binary installed anymore
[07:27] <schweeb> want an old deb of xbase-clients ?
[07:28] <schweeb> I have -34 -36
[07:28] <fabbione> do they work?
[07:28] <fabbione> let's try...
[07:28] <schweeb> but I think those are both the broken ones
[07:28] <schweeb> I seem to remember -32 as the last working one
[07:28] <fabbione> i am not even sure i have enough keys to even install
[07:28] <schweeb> lol
[07:29] <fabbione> bah i guess i will have to dig in console mode
[07:29] <schweeb> -34 has it
[07:29] <fabbione> given that i can't even switch...
[07:29] <fabbione> = reboot
[07:29] <schweeb> gimme a sec to upload it
[07:29] <fabbione> thanks
[07:30] <fabbione> hmm
[07:31] <schweeb> http://www.schweeb.org/~chris/xbase-clients_6.8.2-34_i386.deb
[07:32] <fabbione> schweeb: i can't make a tilde..
[07:32] <fabbione> can you move it somewhere else?
[07:32] <schweeb> haha
[07:32] <schweeb> yea, gimme a sec
[07:32] <fabbione> thanks
[07:33] <pinhead> DANIELS YOU WILL ENJOY SOON THE PLEASURE OF PAIN!
[07:34] <fabbione> the problem seems that xkbutils didn't build yet
[07:34] <fabbione> because it's depwaiting on libxaw7
[07:35] <schweeb> http://www.schweeb.org/xbase-clients_6.8.2-34_i386.deb
[07:35] <fabbione> thanks dude
[07:36] <schweeb> no prob
[07:41] <fabbione> let see first if building libxaw and xkbutils will make it
[07:41] <fabbione> libxaw is FTBFS on some arches, probably due to wrong headers that are ok here
[07:41] <fabbione> infinity: can you take a look at it?
[07:42] <fabbione> it looks like it has been attempted with old headers or something
[07:43] <fabbione> (because ia64 managed it)
[08:03] <fabbione> hmmmm
[08:04] <fabbione> now i got an half working us keyboard
[08:07] <fabbione> AHHH
[08:08] <fabbione> got it i think
[08:13] <fabbione> MUCH better
[08:13] <fabbione> schweeb: the new xkbutils (that aren't built yet) use the wrong path to the keyboards layout
[08:13] <fabbione> and at the same time xterm is doomed
[08:13] <schweeb> hahah
[08:14] <schweeb> so daniels will be getting flamed more when they actually build
[08:14] <fabbione> well.. let see if i can manage to use gnome-terminal
[08:17] <fabbione> well i guess i can use gnome terminal
[08:17] <fabbione> but it's slow to death
[08:17] <fabbione> i need xterm back
[08:18] <schweeb> yea, isn't it wonderful how gnome-terminal managed to make terminal emulation slow
[08:19] <fabbione> hell if it's slow.. i can type and chars appears with 1 sec delay
[08:20] <schweeb> geeze
[08:20] <schweeb> what kinda hardware?
[08:20] <fabbione> P4 2GHZ
[08:20] <schweeb> odd
[08:21] <fabbione> it's mostlikely the font rendering
[08:21] <fabbione> swithing to a static font is slightly faster
[08:45] <fabbione> hmm not even that
[08:45] <fabbione> it's the text parser for URL's and stuff that's dog slow
[08:45] <fabbione> i wonder if i can disable that somehow
[09:20] <fabbione> daniels_: libx11-6 is borked..
[09:21] <fabbione> daniels_: you are shipping a lib in /usr/share/X11/locale/lib/common/ that should really really really be in /usr/lib equivalent
[09:22] <fabbione> sorry i meant...
[09:22] <fabbione> xterm tryes to open /usr/lib/X11/locale/common/
[09:22] <fabbione> when the stuff is in /usr/lib/X11/local/lib/common
[09:25] <fabbione> that solves the xterm input method problem
[09:25] <fabbione> --- SIGCHLD (Child exited) @ 0 (0) ---
[09:26] <fabbione> this trying to change the xterm font using  ctrl+rightmousebut
[09:26] <fabbione> the xterm doesn't die, but it doesn't switch fonts
[09:29] <fabbione> and that's because xterm is searching app-defaults/XTerm in /usr/lib/X11/ instead of /etc
[09:37] <fabbione> (and deadkeys are still dead)
[09:40] <Aegir> :O
[09:40] <Aegir> Ouch, Im certainly glad I chose not to upgrade to breezy just yet.
[09:51] <[SemTeX] > on my box, x dies after login
[09:51] <[SemTeX] > "gdk-warning: locale not supported by xlib"
[09:53] <[SemTeX] > better than last week though
[09:53] <[SemTeX] > x didn't even start then :)
[09:55] <Aegir> My experiance with Breezy was everything hanging during graphical login. Well, not hanging, I could still swap to virtual terminals, print screen, ctrl-alt-backspace, etc... Just couldnt log in, or use failsafe gnome either.
[09:55] <Aegir> I think Ill wait a little longer to be on the cutting edge :)
[09:58] <infinity> fabbione : libxaw FTBFS was due to a bug in libxmu.  Uploading a fix now, thanks for the catch.
[10:00] <fabbione> infinity: it did build fine after a dist-upgrade
[10:01] <fabbione> i think kicking back is enough...
[10:01] <infinity> I already kicked it back.  The new build logs were where I noticed the problem.
[10:01] <infinity> If it worked for you, you has libxext-dev installed, despite the fact that nothing in libxaw's build-deps depends on it.
[10:01] <fabbione> so how come it did build here... *shrugs*
[10:01] <infinity> s/has/had/
[10:02] <fabbione> mostlikely yes
[11:32] <fabbione> daniels_: where did you hide the v4l module for X?
[12:35] <zwnj> Reze_M: howdy?
[12:40] <Nafallo> fabbione: could we have latest CVS synced for rt2400 and rt2500 in the next kernel?
[02:26] <\sh> hmmm...
[02:26] <lamont> dh_install -pgstreamer0.8-swfdec
[02:26] <lamont> cp: cannot stat `./debian/tmp/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.8/libgstswfdec.so': No such file or directory
[02:26] <lamont> grumble
[02:26] <\sh> lamont: can u have a look on http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/o/oo2c/1.5.9-4ubuntu1/oo2c_1.5.9-4ubuntu1_20050724-1250-powerpc-failed.gz
[02:27] <lamont> \sh: in something more than 10 hours, sure
[02:27] <\sh> lamont: strange that the other archs are building
[02:27] <\sh> lamont: hehe :)
[02:27] <lamont> off to church meetings
[02:45] <trulux> morning
[03:31] <TD> hi - i'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but the gtkmm-2.4-dev packages don't seem to include static archives anymore. i'm trying to figure out why, but i can't locate the changelogs for the -dev version of the package.
[03:31] <TD> where am i going wrong?
[03:32] <bob2> sure you can
[03:32] <bob2> but it doesn't mention the word "static" at all
[03:32] <TD> i looked on the changelogs.ubuntu.com site, but that seemed to be only for the gtkmm2.4 package, not gtkmm2.4-dev
[03:32] <TD> and yeah. no mention of static libraries anywhere
[03:33] <bob2> changelogs are for source packages
[03:35] <TD> there's no mention of them in the bug tracker either. hmm
[03:43] <ogra> TD, the -dev packages are generated by the gtkmm2.4 source package
[03:43] <TD> ok
[03:53] <infinity> lamont : *WARNING* *WARNING* about to do another mass give-back, mail flood imminent.
[03:54] <ogra> infinity, i'll have some fun stuff for you soon... edubuntu will use mediawiki in main... that brings a lot of your php universe package into the supported seed :)
[03:54] <jsgotangco> weee
[03:54] <ogra> s/package/packages
[03:55] <infinity> ogra : Yeah, I need to get on my hands and knees and beg for a UVF exception to finish off ServerRoadmap.
[03:55] <infinity> ogra : php4 is supposed to go wholesale to universe, while php5 comes into main.  In theory.
[03:56] <ogra> for breezy already ?
[03:56] <jsgotangco> wow php5 in main
[03:56] <infinity> ogra : I'm going to talk to Kamion and mdz about it in the next day or so, since php5 is being uploaded to Sid as soon as ftp-master comes back online.
[03:57] <ogra> oki... keep me updated on this please... i have a mountain of php apps in edubuntu and i'm not sure if everything is php5 compatible
[03:57] <ogra> i.e. moodle
[03:57] <fabbione> infinity: why is libxfixes in universe?
[03:57] <fabbione> isn't supposed to be in main?
[03:57] <ivoks> hi
[03:58] <fabbione> the source in universe is problematic
[03:58] <ivoks> moodle sucks :)
[03:58] <infinity> ogra : It all SHOULD be (though not necessarily at the packaging level)... One motivation for holding off so long on shipping php5 was to make sure that all apps were okay upstream.
[03:58] <ogra> ivoks, i know.... but we committed to ship it
[03:58] <infinity> fabbione : Uhm.  That's just plain wrong.  Since when?
[03:58] <fabbione> dunno
[03:58] <fabbione> i just noticed due to gtk+2.0 FTBFS on sparc
[03:59] <ivoks> ogra: uh... well, ok
[03:59] <fabbione> http://www.fabbione.net/new_office.jpg <- phear my 3 heads workstation
[03:59] <infinity> fabbione : Shows as being in main here...
[03:59] <fabbione> the source is in universe
[04:00] <infinity> Oh, I see.  Source in universe, binaries in main.  That's not even supposed to be possible.
[04:00] <mdz> infinity: what are the upgrade issues around php4->php5?
[04:00] <fabbione> well i just did an ls
[04:01] <fabbione> hey mdz
[04:01] <infinity> mdz : For end users, probably none.  For administrators, there's have to be a conscious decision made to switch, as I'm not comfortable with forcing an upgrade with a metapackage or any such thing.
[04:01] <mdz> infinity: pushing php4 into universe is tantamount to forcing an upgrade
[04:01] <infinity> mdz : Similar to apache -> apache2, but without the configuration headaches (as php4and php5 share nearly identical configurations)
[04:01] <ogra> fabbione, about time for some flatscreens :)
[04:02] <fabbione> ogra: i don't like them
[04:02] <fabbione> and the one i saw is too expensive
[04:02] <fabbione> the one i really really like
[04:02] <fabbione> + these 3 were for free :)
[04:02] <ogra> oh... but they save a lot of space and are good for your eyes
[04:02] <infinity> mdz : Well, I meant forcing an upgrade without them knowing about it.  Pushing to universe to force a conscious upgrade is intentional (as was the case with apache)
[04:02] <fabbione> space is no problem. i am still not happy with the quality of the pic they deliver
[04:03] <mdz> infinity: we never shipped apache 1.x in main
[04:03] <ajmitch> hi all
[04:03] <infinity> mdz : Oh, not even in warty?  So we didn't.
[04:04] <ogra> nope
[04:04] <mdz> it's a tricky situation; if we demote php4 we'll probably need to add an upgrade note or something to tell the user what is happening
[04:04] <infinity> mdz : At any rate, nothing in main currently depends on php4, so dropping it back out doesn't suddenly make anything break.
[04:05] <mdz> infinity: but there are quite a lot of installed systems which are using it
[04:05] <ogra> infinity, as i said i'll have a lot of stuff depending on php soon for edubuntu
[04:05] <ogra> (in main that is)
[04:05] <infinity> ogra : Right, but those will all be new for breezy.
[04:05] <mdz> ogra: those should use php5 from the start
[04:05] <ogra> nope, not all...
[04:05] <ogra> oki
[04:06] <mdz> assuming we get it in
[04:06] <mdz> infinity: I assume you're planning to land it RSN if it's intended for breezy?
[04:06] <infinity> mdz : Yes, this is true.  I'm not sure if there is a sane way to force that sort of thing, though.  We can't have fake php4 packages in main that tell people to upgrade to php5, that's just icky.  Do we not consider documentation in upgrade notes to be "good enough"?
[04:06] <ogra> i cant promise that all are compatible already... i have to research that first
[04:07] <infinity> mdz : I can land it tomorrow (my Monday)... The sid upload was pretty much waiting on newraff coming back to life.
[04:07] <mdz> ogra: better to just do it, and see what breaks
[04:07] <ogra> ok
[04:07] <infinity> ogra : I can help you test easily enough.  Nothing should break, though.
[04:08] <ogra> infinity, if upstream says its ready i'm fine... and suspect it to work then... its just some minutes of browsing through the upstream pages :)
[04:08] <infinity> mdz : We really have no way to force upgrades of anything outside the scope of ubuntu-desktop.  Server users are generally left on their own for these sorts of things.
[04:08] <mdz> infinity: we've never had to handle this situation before; there isn't a general precedent yet
[04:09] <infinity> Fair enough.
[04:09] <ogra> what i'm worried about is he upgradeability php4->5 if people already using something i switch to 5
[04:09] <mdz> infinity: is upstream dropping support for php4 within breezy's lifetime?
[04:10] <infinity> mdz : That's my fear, yes.  php4 will EOL fairly soon, AFAICT, and I don't want to be stuck being upstream for it, as I am for php3 in Debian.
[04:10] <mdz> infinity: php5 would be a major UVF exception, and create a lot of additional transition work for MOTU
[04:10] <infinity> (By "fairly soon", I mean "within a year or so")
[04:11] <infinity> mdz : I know.  I let the dates slip by while working on X.  I suck.
[04:11] <infinity> mdz : I can work with MOTU to make sure everything's happy there.  In most cases, it's just a question of s/4/5/, or adding alternate dependencies to things.
[04:11] <mdz> it might be feasible to allow it into main, but I'm not sure that we can demote php4 this late in the game
[04:12] <infinity> mdz : We could ship both for this cycle, but we definitely don't want to ship php4 for our big "supported for 5 years" breezy+1 release.
[04:12] <mdz> that's 9 months away yet
[04:12] <infinity> mdz : I'd be happy enough shipping both right now (though pitti was really keen on dropping php4 to universe)
[04:13] <infinity> Dropping php4 to universe also gets rid of the Debian->Ubuntu diff, which makes life easier.
[04:13] <ogra> infinity, how that ?
[04:13] <infinity> But, how bout we get php5 in, I try to help people migrate stuff, and if it looks demoteable later, we try then?
[04:13] <ogra> it just moves the work to the (overworked) MOTU
[04:14] <infinity> ogra : php4's packaging in Ubuntu is different solely because of the main/universe split.  If it was in universe, it could have the Debian sources unchanged.
[04:14] <tseng> mdz: do you have a moment to talk about gkt-sharp next?
[04:14] <mdz> infinity: is the infrastructure side of SoundEvents completed?
[04:14] <mdz> tseng: ok
[04:14] <ogra> infinity, that would break a lot of setups that still want to run 4 i guess, no ?
[04:15] <infinity> mdz : I'll upload whatever changed need to be made there tonight and update the wiki.  Deal?
[04:15] <infinity> ogra : Not sure how it would break anything.
[04:15] <mdz> infinity: ok, please update status for anything with your name attached
[04:15] <ogra> infinity, me neither, i'm no php guy at all... 
 <text>
[04:16] <infinity> ogra : Anyone running packaged php4 apps with Ubuntu is doing so from universe (there are none in main), so moving php4 doesn't hurt them.  Anyone running unpackaged stuff would just continue using php4 packages from hoary until they upgrade.
[04:16] <ajmitch> ogra: I know of a number of packages that won't run on php5, but that's no big problem as they're not in main
[04:16] <ogra> infinity, but if the possibility exists, it would geerate a ton of bugreports we (MOTU) had to deal with
[04:16] <tseng> ogra: do you have an email for Unfrgiven
[04:16] <ogra> tseng, nope
[04:16] <infinity> ogra : Just cause I wear a big hat with "main" on it doesn't mean I can't handle php4 bug reports for universe as well.  I do maintain it in Debian, afterall.
[04:17] <ogra> infinity, i'll qoute you on that !
[04:17] <lsuactiafner> seems nobody in #ubuntu can remember, but once in this channel i was told how to create a fake packacge so that apt-get ignores certain updates? i dont want apt-get to download and upgrade to new kernels
[04:18] <bob2> lsuactiafner: dude, I told you, put the kernels on hold if you really don't want updates
[04:18] <mdz> lsuactiafner: if someone mentioned it here before, you can search the online logs for this channel
[04:19] <lsuactiafner> bob2 : there is no hold option i found, lock didnt work
[04:19] <tseng> mdz: ok so, im not really thrilled about where gtk-sharp2 has gotten upstream compared to what was projected (final release in Sept, assuming freezes sooner)
[04:19] <ogra> oh, btw, fabbione, could you add edubuntu to the logbot ?
[04:19] <bob2> lsuactiafner: this isn't development-related, #ubuntu
[04:19] <ogra> s/edubuntu/#edubuntu
[04:20] <tseng> mdz: there still is no real plan, and the options upstream gave me I'm not a big fan of. might be time to talk about demoting things before we get into breezy release crunch
[04:21] <mdz> tseng: I'm not entirely clear what you mean...we need to back out on mono-in-main for breezy?
[04:22] <ogra> mdz, only certain apps
[04:22] <tseng> mdz: mono itself isnt in bad shape, but we are justifying main status by the gtk-sharp2 apps
[04:22] <mdz> ogra: we have no apps in main so far, and gtk-sharp2 is in the dependency chain for the one app we have seeded
[04:22] <tseng> mdz: gtk-sharp2 still isnt in a state that id be happy pushing off on canonical for support
[04:23] <mdz> tseng: what are the issues?
[04:23] <tseng> mdz: there is no plan for releasing a stable api
[04:23] <ogra> mdz, we had at least two i can remember, tomboy and beagle
[04:23] <tseng> which wasnt really noticeable at any point in development
[04:23] <tseng> because there are backwards compat hooks
[04:24] <ogra> while only beagle is gtk.shrap2 afaik
[04:24] <tseng> most stuff works on rebuild
[04:24] <mdz> ogra: and tomboy doesn't depend on gtk-sharp2?
[04:24] <tseng> but thinking about supporting a release for 6 months.. our stuff will work, people building apps from tarball/cvs (common) will probably break
[04:24] <ogra> mdz, not on 2 iirc
[04:24] <mdz> tseng: they'll have the same problem if it's in universe
[04:24] <mdz> tseng: I'd like to have beagle
[04:25] <tseng> mdz: beagle is a different story, amd64 guys say is unstable across the board
[04:25] <ogra> yep, it is... i'd put more tim in it if i had it
[04:25] <tseng> i cant get anyone to go upstream and work it out, thought
[04:26] <tseng> mdz: if the api breaks in universe, canonical support isnt holding the bag
[04:26] <tseng> its about supporting something upstream doesnt want to still
[04:27] <tseng> sorry for mixing in two issues now.
[04:27] <mdz> tseng: if beagle is a bust, it needs to be removed from the supported seed
[04:27] <Yann2> hi
[04:28] <tseng> yes, id like to call that one for sure. if its going to explode on amd64 we cant have it in main
[04:28] <Yann2> i'm willing to create an Ubuntu-europe foundation... who should I discuss that with?
[04:28] <tseng> Yann2: how do you mean by foundation?
[04:28] <tseng> Yann2: right now we have a number of "local teams" in eurpoe
[04:29] <Yann2> the same as the mozilla europe foundation
[04:29] <Yann2> tseng > I know, i'm leading the french one
[04:29] <Yann2> we currently are working together with the german team
[04:29] <mdz> tseng: if it's solid on i386 but flaky on amd64, that isn't necessarily a show-stopper
[04:29] <Yann2> to buy a new server for both websites
[04:29] <mdz> so long as it builds
[04:29] <Yann2> we got many, many more monney as expected
[04:30] <tseng> mdz: hm then we can keep tracking beagle a little longer
[04:30] <Yann2> in fact we got 1200e on one day, and 1500 have already been promised
[04:30] <ogra> mdz, most other mono stuff works fine on amd64... its only beagle that behaves _this_ bad
[04:31] <Yann2> as that monney basically is for french and german teams
[04:31] <Yann2> we thought it could maybe be useful to other locoteams
[04:31] <bddebian> Hello
[04:31] <{Seb1> hey bddebian
[04:32] <ogra> Yann2, smurfix is the lead of the loco team administration, you should probably talk to him if he's around
[04:32] <bddebian> Morning {Seb1 How goes it?
[04:32] <Yann2> ogra > we already are working together
[04:32] <{Seb1> bddebian: it is going great - i'm just creating a GPG key
[04:32] <Yann2> we just want to officialize it
[04:32] <bddebian> Cool
[04:33] <{Seb1> bddebian: so i can sign the Code of Conduct and the NuN Code of Conduct
[04:33] <bob2> NuN?
[04:33] <{Seb1> New Users Network
[04:33] <{Seb1> i'm joining (hopefully)
[04:34] <{Seb1> since i'm pretty rubbish at everything else but I should be able to give something back to Ubuntu by helping w/ documentation etc...
[04:35] <{Seb1> i just killed gnome-panel which also killed Gaim
[04:35] <ogra> {Seb1, NuN has a own CoC ?
[04:35] <bob2> erk
[04:35] <bob2> ogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUsersNetworkGuidelines, it seems
[04:36] <{Seb1> ogra: Guidelines even
[04:36] <ogra> eek
[04:36] <ogra> ah, ok
[04:36] <Yann2> you're right i'll talk about that to smurfix :)
[04:37] <ogra> Yann2, yep, that'd be best... he is already tightly connected with ubuntu and knows where to go with this request
[04:37] <Yann2> ok
[04:37] <{Seb1> yay! made my key with Seahorse
[04:37] <bob2> hm, I thought they'd fixed the '"New User Mentors" are people who dedicate at least 10 hours per week to helping new Ubuntu users.' thing
[04:38] <tseng> mdz: ok, gtk-sharp2 isnt going to explode if we ship as is. ill update status and try to get beagle 0.12 working (should fix a few peoples issues)
[04:38] <{Seb1> bob2: i can do that :-)
[04:38] <jsgotangco> {Seb1: if you're interested in documentaiton, you can join the docteam we need all the help we can get
[04:38] <mdz> tseng: yes, beagle 0.12 can have an exception to UVF ;-)
[04:39] <{Seb1> jsgotangco: what does that entail?
[04:39] <\sh> hmmm..i should have a shower..that I forgot during the day...and the buildds are busy as hell
[04:39] <jsgotangco> {Seb1: wiki work, docbook work
[04:40] <jsgotangco> (although docbook knowledge iis not necessarily required welcome nonetheless)
[05:00] <trulux> heya pitti 
[05:00] <pitti> Hi
[05:01] <{Seb}> who are all these pople?
[05:01] <{Seb}> *people?
[05:02] <{Seb}> i wonder if brown.freenode.net has gone down....
[05:02] <trulux> {Seb}: Lost in Plug
[05:14] <daniels_> mdz: http://live.gnome.org/Luminocity
[05:17] <davyd> yo yo, it's Stone
[05:17] <tseng> +r
[05:17] <davyd> or stoned
[05:17] <fabbione> daniels_: hey kid
[05:18] <fabbione> daniels_: i suggest you read a bit of the scrollback in here
[05:18] <fabbione> daniels_: next step is you sending me 10$ for beer
[05:19] <HWolf> fabbione: what did he do? ;)
[05:19] <fabbione> LOVE LOVE LOVE...
[05:19] <fabbione> all i need is lovee...
[05:20] <fabbione> papparapaaaa
[05:20] <OddAbe19> when is X expected to be straightened out, out of couriosity?
[05:20] <HWolf> OddAbe19: join the legions of people who want to know that. ;)
[05:20] <fabbione> OddAbe19: never.. that will be the surprise feature for breezy
[05:20] <OddAbe19> lol
[05:20] <davyd> no software will compile
[05:21] <daniels_> fabbione: i read the scrollback, yeah
[05:21] <daniels_> fabbione: i'll look into libx11 tomorrow
[05:21] <OddAbe19> I know i'm not the only one that wants to know, i was just wondering if it's going to bee soon?
[05:21] <daniels_> it's 0122 on a sunday night, been tied up with family stuff all weekend
[05:21] <fabbione> daniels_: and xterm please
[05:21] <HWolf> OddAbe19: knowing X, it'd not hold my breath. But we all know the X team are hardworking and competent. ;)
[05:22] <fabbione> xterm should point to /etc/X11/app-defaults and not /usr...
[05:22] <chrissturm> is there a workaround to the X keyboard problems?
[05:22] <OddAbe19> HWolf, yeah, praise the X team
[05:22] <OddAbe19> :-D
[05:23] <ogra> yeah, find the easter egg in breezy.... get your x working ;)
[05:23] <\sh> hmmm
[05:23] <\sh> something went wrong
[05:25] <HWolf> s
[05:25] <HWolf> \sh: what else is new ;)
[05:26] <\sh> HWolf: ah no...I just saw a package which wasn't for ubuntu..but accepted by the buildd...strange...
[05:27] <infinity> \sh : ?
[05:27] <\sh> infinity: rezound
[05:28] <\sh> infinity: i386 list says: not for us..but katie accepted and changes as well
[05:28] <infinity> \sh : not-for-us is just for the buildds, not for the archive in general.
[05:29] <infinity> \sh : katie will still accept source uploads, but the buildds won't ever touch it until it's not not-for-us.
[05:29] <\sh> infinity: but it's in the archives ;)
[05:29] <infinity> \sh : Then it was built before I NFU'd it.
[05:29] <infinity> \sh : And it's was later NFU'd to prevent autobuilding of new ujploads until its dependencies were ready.
[05:29] <\sh> infinity: the last version actually..not the new one
[05:30] <infinity> \sh : I'm assuming it was tied up in the C++ transition (or still is)?
[05:30] <\sh> infinity: merge
[05:30] <infinity> \sh : NFU has nothing to do with the archive, only buildds.  Does that clear it up?
[05:30] <\sh> infinity: all deps are there and it build fine here
[05:30] <\sh> infinity: yep
[05:30] <infinity> \sh : So, are you saying I should clear the NFU? :)
[05:31] <\sh> infinity: please :)
[05:31] <infinity> \sh : You sort of stopped communicating with me about frozenapps a few weeks ago, so anything still frozen has been that way for a while.
[05:31] <infinity> Which appears to be 12 packages, still.
[05:32] <\sh> infinity: pls give me the url again...I just lost everything since my breezy adventure xorg failures 
[05:33] <infinity> \sh : http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/frozenapps.txt
[05:33] <infinity> \sh : Let me go over it really quickly here.
[05:34] <\sh> libace is not transitioned...new upstream and really crappy rules :( UNfrgiven and I are lost with this...
[05:35] <ajmitch> libcrypto++ has a number of issues, being discussed on debian-devel
[05:35] <\sh> gfccore is in NEW queue...I asked for NEW love, but actually...it looks like it's stucked there
[05:36] <\sh> mpqc (libsc6c2) looks like ready to go
[05:37] <infinity> gfccore looks like it made it in, to me.
[05:37] <ajmitch> what about libcln? I thought that was in?
[05:37] <\sh> libcln3c2 is also ready to go
[05:37] <ajmitch> yes, it is in universe
[05:38] <ajmitch> as are libfox1.0c2 & 1.2c2
[05:38] <\sh> yepp
[05:38] <bddebian> Is there a reason we don't have libdebtags1-dev ?
[05:38] <\sh> yehia is a stopper...will have a look right now :(
[05:38] <\sh> openvrml..stopper
[05:39] <ajmitch> bddebian: perhaps it went into debian after UVF?
[05:39] <\sh> tse3 (libtse3-0.2.7c2) is ready to go
[05:39] <ajmitch> bddebian: it was uploaded to unstable on 1st july
[05:39] <\sh> libginac1.3c2 as well..go
[05:39] <\sh> libxdb1 i can't find
[05:40] <\sh> libsigcperl1c2 not finished
[05:40] <bddebian> ajmitch: Ahh
[05:40] <\sh> ok...let me quick fix this
[05:41] <\sh> infinity: give me one hour at last 1 1/2 hours...to get the rest != ace
[05:41] <\sh> and aqsis
[05:41] <infinity> \sh, ajmitch : When you guys are telling me stuff is "in", you're making sure it's built on all arches, right?
[05:42] <jsgotangco> good night everyone, pleasant sunday to all
[05:42] <infinity> \sh : I'm going to be for 6 or 7 hours, can you just ping me in /msg with a list of what is and isn't ready later tonight?
[05:42] <infinity> \sh : s/going to be/going to bed/
[05:43] <\sh> infinity: normally yes....I just check again all stuff..cause some are missing bugzilla entries :(
[05:45] <\sh> infinity: I'll mail u the list of finished libs ..
[05:50] <bddebian> So what is the appropriate method to request a synch (new package) from Debian upstream?
[05:52] <pitti> lamont: here?
[05:52] <\sh> ok...sigcperl uploaded ...
[05:53] <pitti> bddebian: ask elmo to do it
[05:53] <bddebian> pitti: OK, thanks
[05:53] <pitti> bddebian: however, we have upstream version freeze now
[05:54] <bddebian> pitti: I know but packagesearch in merge now build-depends libdebtags1-dev and we don't have it.
[05:55] <pitti> bddebian: ah, for universe?
[05:55] <pitti> Hi ogra 
[06:06] <bddebian> pitti: Well packagesearch is in universe but I would expect libdebtags1-dev would be in main??
[06:07] <pitti> bddebian: if we don't have it at all ATM, it should go to universe
[06:09] <ajmitch> no good reason for it to go into main
[06:11] <pitti> ajmitch: hi!
[06:11] <pitti> ajmitch: what's new in SELinux land?
[06:11] <ajmitch> hello pitti 
[06:12] <ajmitch> not terribly much
[06:13] <pitti> ajmitch: are there still outstanding SELinux patches in breezy?
[06:14] <ajmitch> yep 
[06:14] <bddebian> pitti: OK.
[06:16] <pitti> see you tomorrow
[06:17] <zyga> daniels_: what is luminocity?
[06:19] <{Seb}> luminocity is a window manager
[06:19] <{Seb}> with lots of eye candy
[06:20] <\sh> mdz: ping
[06:20] <HWolf> {Seb}: Is it usable? 
[06:21] <HWolf> And will anything of it ever reach mainstream, as usefull UI enhancements
[06:21] <{Seb}> HWolf: good question
[06:21] <HWolf> zyga: it won't be packaged, it's a testcase, to show what is possible with 'next-gen' things that are considered good should be merged into metacity
[06:21] <HWolf> gen'. T
[06:22] <HWolf> {Seb}: I think we'll agree that wobbly windows are fun, but I don't see any possibility of them making live easier. :)
[06:23] <{Seb}> true - it shows that Linux has the potential to do cool stuff with graphics
[06:23] <{Seb}> like OS X
[06:23] <siretart> is there some possibility to make metacity resizing on alt+dragwithrightbutton?
[06:25] <mdz> \sh: ?
[06:25] <zyga> HWolf: maybe someone will package the testcase for average person to see?
[06:26] <\sh> mdz: any objections to overwrite UVF for universe for a new lib? openvrml-0.14.3 doesn't build with gcc4 and is not maintained anymore by upstream...debian is old...and I'm just trying 0.15.9
[06:26] <zyga> siretart: itsn't it already resizing with meta+dragwith3rdbutton :)
[06:26] <mdz> \sh: shouldn't we wait to decide that until you know if it fixes the problem? ;-)
[06:27] <\sh> mdz: this lib isn't transitioned at all...so I need to do it in any way ,-)
[06:28] <HWolf> zyga: don't hold your breath, mostly internal technologies developed by hackers, hackers don't care much for an audience, usually. 
[06:28] <mdz> \sh: if it has a manageable number of reverse depends, and you update them accordingly, it's OK with me
[06:28] <\sh> hmm...gtklookat ,-)
[06:29] <\sh> i think I will manage
[06:30] <siretart> zyga: err, not for me :(
[06:32] <ogra> siretart, alt+middlemouse works here 
[06:33] <siretart> woah. neat!
[06:37] <ogra> mdz, are you aware making all my stuff depend on php5 will defer everything... i dont even know the package names for depends yet
[06:38] <mdz> ogra: explain?
[06:39] <HWolf> ogra, are there even php5 packages?
[06:39] <ogra> mdz, we have no php5 packages yet.... so how should i create depends lines for moodle or mediawiki ? 
[06:39] <HWolf> ah
[06:39] <HWolf> nm
[06:39] <mdz> ogra: we have no php5 packages yet, so why would you do that?
[06:39] <mdz> ogra: do they require php5?
[06:39] <ogra> mdz, because you said above that i should :) ?
 ogra: those should use php5 from the start
[06:40] <mdz> ogra: only the ones which aren't packaged yet
[06:40] <ogra> i.e. mediawiki :)
[06:40] <mdz> ok.....
[06:40] <mdz> so everything for edubuntu is finished except packaging those two?
[06:41] <mdz> if so, it shouldn't be a problem to wait until tomorrow when infinity said he would upload php5
[06:42] <ogra> mdz, i'm not sure this includes all my needs, but we'll see ( php-gd and php-imagemagick or -mysql for example)
[06:42] <mdz> ogra: presumably he would tell you if you asked
[06:43] <ogra> heh, yes :)
[06:43] <mdz> or, you could just package them for php4 and consider transitioning them later
[06:43] <ogra> mdz, i would prefer that, since i'm not sure i want both php's in edubuntu....
[06:45] <ogra> mdz, the classroom management tool juan promised to send never arrived (i'm just writing another mail to him) that would be the last missing bit... then i can start building a custom config for edubuntu...
[06:45] <ogra> ...and hope we get a working CD soon :)
[06:45] <mdz> it seems unlikely that we would be able to get the classroom management tool into good shape in time for feature freeze anyway
[06:46] <ogra> mdz, yes... i'm looking into alternatives...
[06:46] <ogra> worst case i'll tweak teachertool, but thats not the nicest app...
[06:47] <ogra> ... but will be a quick solution
[06:47] <mdz> I haven't looked at teachertool, but it didn't seem very quick to me
[06:47] <mdz> how does the authentication work?
[06:49] <ogra> its only 348 lines of code... but lacking security...
[06:49] <ogra> it works along the output of "ps --User" 
[06:50] <ogra> and runs as root/sudo as far as i can tell
[06:50] <mdz> if it's insecure, then part of the process of integrating it would be securing it
[06:51] <ogra> i havent looked to deep into it, since i already discarded it in favor of the promised tool...
[06:51] <ogra> eeek 
[06:51] <ogra> os.system("export DISPLAY="+computer+":0.0 && su "+user+" -c '"+command+" &'") 
[06:52] <ogra> ok, it needs a bit of concept work i would say *g*
[06:52] <HWolf> ugh, who came up with that?
[06:52] <ogra> HWolf, its a classroom management tool for ltsp... 
[06:53] <HWolf> ogra, yeah, i've been reading along
[06:53] <HWolf> ogra, just amazed at that line of code
[06:53] <ogra> HWolf, there are more of them ...
[06:54] <HWolf> ogra, i'm not that smart, but if that line works as I think it does, that's pretty dumb. :P
[06:54] <\sh> hmm..who broke the buildds ?,-)
[06:54] <ogra> yep... especially since our ltsp shouldnt use "export DISPLAY" at all...
[06:55] <ogra> but i'll have to play in a real environment... to make this better...
[06:55] <ogra> (which i'm currently assembling here)
[06:58] <HWolf> ogra, cool
[07:12] <fabbione> crimsun: ping?
[07:36] <fabbione> crimsun: unping
[08:07] <Mez> jdub: ping
[08:07] <CarlFK> apt-get install curl = "Package curl is not available, but is referred to by another package."
[08:08] <CarlFK> (breezy)
[08:08] <CarlFK> it was a month ago.. should I file a bug report
[08:14] <ogra> CarlFK, installng curl works flawless here
[08:19] <CarlFK> ah - I bet it isn't on the CD
[08:19] <CarlFK> I was onluy using the CD as a repo
[08:20] <CarlFK> yup.  nm
[08:22] <schweeb> daniels_: in case you didn't know, there's no xauth binary in -42... I can't start an NX session :(
[08:41] <tseng> fabbione: did you notice that inotify is broken in last upload?
[08:41] <tseng> fabbione: i get no device
[08:44] <seb128> is gamin working for anybody?
[08:45] <seb128> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/mono-utils_1.1.8.2-1ubuntu1_i386.deb (--unpack):
[08:45] <seb128>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/man/man1/mono-find-provides.1.gz', which is also in package mono-mcs
[08:45] <seb128> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
[08:45] <seb128> grumpf
[08:47] <seb128> daniels_: xrdb FTBFS, should build-deps on libxt-dev
[08:48] <HWolf> seb128, have pity, poor daniels...
[08:49] <seb128> ?
[08:49] <seb128> that's just information, I'm happy to upload to fix it if he wants
[08:49] <HWolf> :)
[09:01] <{Seb}> is the kernel 2.6.1 2 going to be updated with the latest inotify update?
[09:01] <{Seb}> which uses syscalls instead of /dev/inotify
[09:07] <Yann2> http://www.ubuntu-fr.org/ubuntu-eu/
[09:07] <Yann2> tell me what you think... 
[09:13] <Yann2> mmh, ok, sorry for the poor english, i'm doing my best :/
[09:50] <\sh> ok..I patched openvrml_0.14.3
[09:51] <\sh> 0.15.9 is totally crappy source
[09:59] <zyga> hmm
[09:59] <zyga> I'm going thru python-gtk-tutorial
[09:59] <zyga> I've noticed that some examples are using deprecated API
[09:59] <zyga> and I've fixed them of course
[10:00] <zyga> does anyone think that patches would be usefull?
[10:00] <zyga> s/ll/l/
[10:01] <Amaranth> my windows HD broke too :/
[10:01] <zyga> python-gtk2-tutorial is a supported package
[10:02] <Amaranth> so now i've lost everything i've written, all my saved games, all my email, and my GPG key
[10:02] <Amaranth> yay
[10:02] <zyga> Amaranth: did you follow gpg tutorial and printed your revocation certificate?
[10:03] <Amaranth> no
[10:03] <gnobody> does X work yet?
[10:03] <Amaranth> why do i need to revoke it? it doesn't exist anymore
[10:03] <gnobody> does X work yet?
[10:03] <Amaranth> Please don't repeat yourself.
[10:03] <Amaranth> That's an #ubuntu question.
[10:04] <gnobody> nobody on #ubuntu would answer me
[10:04] <schweeb> Amaranth: have you tried the freezer trick on it
[10:04] <Amaranth> schweeb: it's not a crashed head
[10:04] <gnobody> please just answer me amaranth
[10:05] <zyga> Amaranth: good point... 
[10:05] <tseng> he did
[10:05] <Amaranth> gnobody: No.
[10:05] <tseng> the answer is no
[10:05] <gnobody> ahh
[10:05] <gnobody> ty
[10:05] <schweeb> Amaranth: what's the problem then?
[10:05] <tseng> last warning.
[10:05] <Amaranth> schweeb: It overheated.
[10:05] <seb128> zyga: this kind of patch is nice to send upstream
[10:05] <zyga> seb128: I'll finish the tutorial (I know nothing about gtk2) and compile a patch
[10:05] <Amaranth> That guy is pretty annoying about things not working on the forums too. :/
[10:05] <seb128> zyga: thanks
[10:06] <schweeb> Amaranth: sounds like someone needs to learn some manners then
[10:25] <tseng> {Seb}: new beagle up
[10:55] <{Seb}> thanks tseng
[11:17] <\sh> *yawn*
[11:18] <\sh> good night gentlemen...enough of patching, uploading and merging
[11:39] <Riddell> what's the gnome package manager called which isn't synaptic
[11:41] <Amaranth> gnome-app-install?
[11:42] <Riddell> no
[11:42] <Riddell> the one that's like synaptic
[11:42] <Amaranth> doesn't exist
[11:43] <Riddell> I'm sure there is one
[11:50] <infinity> There've been several, but I don't know if any ever went anywhere.
[11:50] <infinity> gdpm comes to mind.
[11:52] <infinity> Oh, and gnome-apt.