[12:05] so, exactly, HOW broken IS X, right now? === Jimbob [~jcape@c-24-14-115-101.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === susus [~sz@p5089F159.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dwarvenblade [~dwarven@99a4b7e0e088dda5.session.tor] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz_ [~mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz_ is now known as mdz === Chand [~chand@ABordeaux-151-1-10-9.w82-125.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:57] daniels: what's the name of the window manager that keith used for his demo? [12:57] daniels: and is there any video or such of it available online? === shackan [~shackan@host137-78.pool8257.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:01] mdz, do you mean luminocity ? === Arrogance [~aks@ottawa-hs-206-191-39-90.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra thinks the guys in #ubuntu-artwork are quite crazy [01:03] they say i must make a wallpaper for ubuntu of a piece of celery with peanut butter on it sitting on a plate overlooking a moon which drops down beneath a celestrial waterfall of stars, each running into each other [01:03] but great ! [01:03] ogra, yes the deliverer of eternal brillance from the planet peanut gave me this vision [01:04] hehe [01:07] dwarvenblade, PAINT IT ! [01:07] :) [01:08] I will paint it with my tongue ring, a good idea === marcin [~marcin@www.e-dev.tele2.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dwarvenblade [~dwarven@99a4b7e0e088dda5.session.tor] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [01:49] can initrd.gz be mounted? [01:49] or... where can I see how the installer's is built? [01:53] got it [01:54] there is a version mixup wiht the breezy installer [01:55] or did I fumble again... === anibal [ams@ns1.mssinc.biz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thoreauputic [~prospero@wolax7-093.dialup.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:08] yup. [02:09] hi all [02:09] mdz: http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog-images/monkey-hoot/WobblyWindowsIntro.ogg [02:09] (fridge) [02:09] fridge! [02:09] FRIDGE ! [02:10] I got a question about emacs packages for ubuntu - something related with debian policy [02:10] can I talk here with someone who maintains these packages or is this wrong channel? [02:16] best to just ask [02:17] what kernel param do I pass the setup to specify the language and keyboard? [02:17] it seems to have changed in the last month or so [02:18] because this usedto work, but now I am being prompted: preseed/locale=en_US kbd-chooser/method=us [02:21] bob2, ok then my question is - why you guys follow debian policy for emacs and use these emacsen-common scripts while you provide only one "flavor" of emacs (emacs21) [02:22] bob2, and why just not to provide really binary packages for emacs with byte-compiled files (.elc only) for emacs21 ? [02:22] bob2, for example emacs21-gnus, emacs21-cedet, emacs21-nxml and so on [02:24] I see at least emacs21-nox [02:25] marcin: following debian is a good idea usually because it /win 35 [02:25] sigh [02:25] because it minimises the maintainence we have to do [02:26] ajmitch, ok, but these emacsen-common scripts are overcompilcated and buggy [02:26] if they're buggy, please file bugs [02:26] ajmitch, and while you want to provide things that just work than maybe this policy is not so good? [02:27] marcin: if someone has time to sit down & improve things then they can be fed back to debian as well === thoreauputic_ [~prospero@wolax7-225.dialup.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:30] ajmitch, hmm ok then for now - I found a bug (problem when trying to install some emacs packages on hoary) what should I do with this? [02:31] file bug at the moment === ajmitch is an emacs user, hasn't looked at the packaging [02:33] you can try yourself - remove all emacs packages (and config files too - remove totally) and then apt-get install bbdb ecb (for example) [02:34] ajmitch, it should install emacs21 first and then install these packages but it doesn't - you will get an error because there is no emacs flavor available [02:35] ajmitch, you need to install emacs21 first and then these packages - this is not the way apt and dependencies should work - right? [02:35] iirc, emacs21 shoul get installed first, but won't be configured when the packages that depend on it are unpacked === b-rad [~root@pcp0010034564pcs.epensb01.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === b-rad [~root@pcp0010034564pcs.epensb01.pa.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === CarlFK [~CarlK@c-67-163-11-94.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === CarlFK [~CarlK@c-67-163-11-94.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robertj_ [robertj@66.188.77.153] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:26] whiprush: thanks === j_fletcher [~james@nukeh.plus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir [~Richard@d220-238-88-136.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seth_k [~seth@24-117-104-21.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === OddAbe19 [~OddAbe19@pcp02542642pcs.lncstr01.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === niran [~niran@cpe-67-10-213-51.houston.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wm_eddie [~wm_eddie@wm-eddie.info] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lexhider [~lexhider@220.235.87.254] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:46] emacs21: error while loading shared libraries: libXaw3d.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory [05:46] how very interesting and annoying [06:09] morning [06:10] hmmm [06:12] Hello fabbione [06:12] hi === Aegir [~Richard@d220-238-88-136.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir [~Richard@d220-238-88-136.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wm_eddie [~wm_eddie@wm-eddie.info] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chesty_ [~chesty@unconcerned.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === daniels_ [~daniels@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lool_ [~lool@pig.zood.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === GNULinuxer [~ghoseb@gnulinuxer.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sto_ [~sto@224.Red-80-59-203.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sbibayoff_ [steve@216.52.246.218] has joined #ubuntu-devel === HWolf [~hidden@136.114.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mjg59_ [~mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko [~doko___@dsl-084-059-069-162.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir [Richard@d220-238-88-136.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:13] daniels_: ping? [07:14] can somebody be so kind to write a pipe ? [07:15] because keyboard is doomed [07:15] or tell me what pkg has xmodmap [07:24] fabbione: appears as though none of my installed packages have xmodmap included in them === jsgotangco [~jgotangco@info1-121.info.com.ph] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:25] i got owned by X upgrade [07:25] fabbione, | [07:25] :) [07:25] my keyboard is basically useless [07:25] That sucks [07:26] heh [07:26] bah [07:26] fabbione: supposed to be included with xbase-clients though [07:26] and a dollarsign please :) [07:27] crap [07:27] pointless [07:27] i can't copy paste [07:27] even the mouse is doomed [07:27] DANIELS? [07:27] I don't even have the binary installed anymore [07:27] want an old deb of xbase-clients ? [07:28] I have -34 -36 [07:28] do they work? [07:28] let's try... [07:28] but I think those are both the broken ones [07:28] I seem to remember -32 as the last working one [07:28] i am not even sure i have enough keys to even install [07:28] lol [07:29] bah i guess i will have to dig in console mode [07:29] -34 has it [07:29] given that i can't even switch... [07:29] = reboot [07:29] gimme a sec to upload it [07:29] thanks [07:30] hmm [07:31] http://www.schweeb.org/~chris/xbase-clients_6.8.2-34_i386.deb [07:32] schweeb: i can't make a tilde.. [07:32] can you move it somewhere else? [07:32] haha [07:32] yea, gimme a sec [07:32] thanks === schweeb is cracking up [07:33] DANIELS YOU WILL ENJOY SOON THE PLEASURE OF PAIN! [07:34] the problem seems that xkbutils didn't build yet [07:34] because it's depwaiting on libxaw7 [07:35] http://www.schweeb.org/xbase-clients_6.8.2-34_i386.deb [07:35] thanks dude [07:36] no prob [07:41] let see first if building libxaw and xkbutils will make it [07:41] libxaw is FTBFS on some arches, probably due to wrong headers that are ok here [07:41] infinity: can you take a look at it? [07:42] it looks like it has been attempted with old headers or something [07:43] (because ia64 managed it) [08:03] hmmmm [08:04] now i got an half working us keyboard [08:07] AHHH [08:08] got it i think === Aegir [~richard@d220-238-88-136.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:13] MUCH better [08:13] schweeb: the new xkbutils (that aren't built yet) use the wrong path to the keyboards layout [08:13] and at the same time xterm is doomed [08:13] hahah [08:14] so daniels will be getting flamed more when they actually build [08:14] well.. let see if i can manage to use gnome-terminal [08:17] well i guess i can use gnome terminal [08:17] but it's slow to death [08:17] i need xterm back [08:18] yea, isn't it wonderful how gnome-terminal managed to make terminal emulation slow [08:19] hell if it's slow.. i can type and chars appears with 1 sec delay [08:20] geeze [08:20] what kinda hardware? [08:20] P4 2GHZ [08:20] odd [08:21] it's mostlikely the font rendering [08:21] swithing to a static font is slightly faster [08:45] hmm not even that [08:45] it's the text parser for URL's and stuff that's dog slow [08:45] i wonder if i can disable that somehow === mitsuhiko [~blackbird@80.122.201.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Panzerboy [~stelu@panzerboy.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo [~slomo@p5487C0A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mjg59_ [~mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lool_ [~lool@pig.zood.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marcin [~marcin@www.e-dev.tele2.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carstenh_ [~carstenh@p54A61BC5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chris38 [~Christian@192.44.60.65] has joined #ubuntu-devel === syndicate [~forgue@anthracite.aca.oakland.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === trulux [~lorenzo@trulux.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sfvt [~sfvt@pool-64-222-117-63.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Clint [~Clint@thumb.scru.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jordi [~jordi@115.Red-213-96-69.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spacey [~spacey@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sebest [~chatzilla@120.245.101-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zenrox [~zenrox@71.115.200.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === comadreja [~comadreja@comadreja.active.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mithrandir [~tfheen@c5100BC63.inet.catch.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === elmo [~james@83-216-156-21.jamest747.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mitsuhiko [~blackbird@80.122.201.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir [~richard@d220-238-88-136.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko [~doko___@dsl-084-059-069-162.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === GNULinuxer [~ghoseb@gnulinuxer.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel === daniels_ [~daniels@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz [~mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jlj [~agp@AMontpellier-152-1-26-121.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lakin [~lakin@dsl-hill-66-18-228-60-cgy.nucleus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === herzi [~herzi@d043006.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === calc [~ccheney@ip70-185-4-246.ma.dl.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === crimsun [~crimsun@crimsun.silver.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-devel === HrdwrBoB [~matt@bob.is.teh.admin.at.vicnet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bradb-afk [~bradb@modemcable082.64-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === smurfix [~smurf@smurfix.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robtaylor__ [~robtaylor@dyn1.sesnet.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dilinger [dilinger@mouth.voxel.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j^ [~j@wg104.waag.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === aeddan [~aeddan@203.39.89.243] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === havoc [~havoc@CPE-24-167-241-63.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === torkel [torkel@shaka.acc.umu.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:20] daniels_: libx11-6 is borked.. [09:21] daniels_: you are shipping a lib in /usr/share/X11/locale/lib/common/ that should really really really be in /usr/lib equivalent [09:22] sorry i meant... [09:22] xterm tryes to open /usr/lib/X11/locale/common/ [09:22] when the stuff is in /usr/lib/X11/local/lib/common [09:25] that solves the xterm input method problem [09:25] --- SIGCHLD (Child exited) @ 0 (0) --- [09:26] this trying to change the xterm font using ctrl+rightmousebut [09:26] the xterm doesn't die, but it doesn't switch fonts [09:29] and that's because xterm is searching app-defaults/XTerm in /usr/lib/X11/ instead of /etc [09:37] (and deadkeys are still dead) [09:40] :O [09:40] Ouch, Im certainly glad I chose not to upgrade to breezy just yet. === davyd [~davyd@cugglephone.madeley.id.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:51] <[SemTeX] > on my box, x dies after login [09:51] <[SemTeX] > "gdk-warning: locale not supported by xlib" [09:53] <[SemTeX] > better than last week though [09:53] <[SemTeX] > x didn't even start then :) [09:55] My experiance with Breezy was everything hanging during graphical login. Well, not hanging, I could still swap to virtual terminals, print screen, ctrl-alt-backspace, etc... Just couldnt log in, or use failsafe gnome either. [09:55] I think Ill wait a little longer to be on the cutting edge :) [09:58] fabbione : libxaw FTBFS was due to a bug in libxmu. Uploading a fix now, thanks for the catch. [10:00] infinity: it did build fine after a dist-upgrade [10:01] i think kicking back is enough... [10:01] I already kicked it back. The new build logs were where I noticed the problem. [10:01] If it worked for you, you has libxext-dev installed, despite the fact that nothing in libxaw's build-deps depends on it. [10:01] so how come it did build here... *shrugs* [10:01] s/has/had/ [10:02] mostlikely yes === TerminX [~terminx@terminx.envision7.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mitsuhiko [~blackbird@80.122.201.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lsuactiafner [~noirrac@tpc-ip-nas-1-p43.telkom-ipnet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zeedo [~zeedo@www.reboot-robot.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir [~richard@d220-238-88-136.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === rob^ [~rob@rob-ubuntu.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ironwolf [~ironwolf@c-67-180-162-160.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === MagnusR [~magru@85.194.14.142] has joined #ubuntu-devel === martinhj [~martinhj@host-81-191-103-214.bluecom.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shwiiing [~shwiiing@dsl-209-126.o-d.tiscali.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:32] daniels_: where did you hide the v4l module for X? === tortoise_ [~tortoise@81-86-196-118.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === icaro [~icaro@adsl-ull-35-19.44-151.net24.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zwnj [~behnam@81.31.160.199] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thoreauputic [~prospero@wolax6-094.dialup.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Yvonne [~fsck@cn-sdm-cr02-2552.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zwnj [~behnam@81.31.160.199] has joined #ubuntu-devel === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Reze_M [~reza@81.31.166.231] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Safari_Al [~tr@ppp239-31.lns2.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [~Mez@cpc2-lich4-3-0-cust115.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:35] Reze_M: howdy? === lsuactiafner [~noirrac@tpc-ip-nas-1-p154.telkom-ipnet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:40] fabbione: could we have latest CVS synced for rt2400 and rt2500 in the next kernel? === Aegir [~richard@d220-238-88-136.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === retrix [~sam@ppp202-51.lns1.adl1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === terrex [~terrex@84-122-73-155.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Valandil [~chrys@dsl-084-056-123-002.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === highvoltage [~Jono@196.25.192.240] has joined #ubuntu-devel === AstralJava [~jaska@cm-062-241-217-117.lohjanpuhelin.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === blueyed [~daniel@i538716AC.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zyga [~zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === emacsen [~serge@pcp09295616pcs.arlngt01.va.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === emacsen [~serge@pcp09295616pcs.arlngt01.va.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Reze_M [~reza@81.31.166.231] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === shackan [~shackan@host54-100.pool8259.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zyga [~zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === astro76 [~james@pcp08471841pcs.elztwn01.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === camilotelles [~Camilo@201.32.198.159] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shackan [~shackan@host54-100.pool8259.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [~chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chrissturm [~chris@83-65-246-1.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel === terrex is away: Alimentndome // I'm eating st [02:26] <\sh> hmmm... [02:26] dh_install -pgstreamer0.8-swfdec [02:26] cp: cannot stat `./debian/tmp/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.8/libgstswfdec.so': No such file or directory [02:26] grumble [02:26] <\sh> lamont: can u have a look on http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/o/oo2c/1.5.9-4ubuntu1/oo2c_1.5.9-4ubuntu1_20050724-1250-powerpc-failed.gz [02:27] \sh: in something more than 10 hours, sure [02:27] <\sh> lamont: strange that the other archs are building [02:27] <\sh> lamont: hehe :) [02:27] off to church meetings === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-55-169.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === eruin [~eruin@76.84-48-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bskahan [~bskahan@pool-70-18-201-198.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdthood [~jdthood@aglu.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:45] morning === Seveaz [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thierry [~thierry@modemcable094.69-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Danten [~danten@h147n7c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sebest_ [~chatzilla@sebest.ovibes.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LinuxJones [~willy@blk-222-221-81.eastlink.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _mitsuhiko [~blackbird@80.122.201.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shackan [~shackan@host54-100.pool8259.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Reze_M [~reza@81.31.160.231] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TD [~mike@foghorn.codeweavers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:31] hi - i'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but the gtkmm-2.4-dev packages don't seem to include static archives anymore. i'm trying to figure out why, but i can't locate the changelogs for the -dev version of the package. [03:31] where am i going wrong? === Reze_M [~reza@81.31.160.231] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [03:32] sure you can [03:32] but it doesn't mention the word "static" at all [03:32] i looked on the changelogs.ubuntu.com site, but that seemed to be only for the gtkmm2.4 package, not gtkmm2.4-dev [03:32] and yeah. no mention of static libraries anywhere [03:33] changelogs are for source packages === TD is at a loss then [03:35] there's no mention of them in the bug tracker either. hmm === jsgotangco [~jgotangco@info1-244.info.com.ph] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:43] TD, the -dev packages are generated by the gtkmm2.4 source package [03:43] ok === Aegir [~richard@d220-238-88-136.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === shackan [~shackan@host54-100.pool8259.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:53] lamont : *WARNING* *WARNING* about to do another mass give-back, mail flood imminent. [03:54] infinity, i'll have some fun stuff for you soon... edubuntu will use mediawiki in main... that brings a lot of your php universe package into the supported seed :) [03:54] weee [03:54] s/package/packages [03:55] ogra : Yeah, I need to get on my hands and knees and beg for a UVF exception to finish off ServerRoadmap. [03:55] ogra : php4 is supposed to go wholesale to universe, while php5 comes into main. In theory. [03:56] for breezy already ? [03:56] wow php5 in main [03:56] ogra : I'm going to talk to Kamion and mdz about it in the next day or so, since php5 is being uploaded to Sid as soon as ftp-master comes back online. === ivoks [~ivoks@83-131-134-214.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:57] oki... keep me updated on this please... i have a mountain of php apps in edubuntu and i'm not sure if everything is php5 compatible [03:57] i.e. moodle [03:57] infinity: why is libxfixes in universe? [03:57] isn't supposed to be in main? === ealden [~ealden@219.90.92.48] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:57] hi [03:58] the source in universe is problematic [03:58] moodle sucks :) [03:58] ogra : It all SHOULD be (though not necessarily at the packaging level)... One motivation for holding off so long on shipping php5 was to make sure that all apps were okay upstream. [03:58] ivoks, i know.... but we committed to ship it [03:58] fabbione : Uhm. That's just plain wrong. Since when? [03:58] dunno [03:58] i just noticed due to gtk+2.0 FTBFS on sparc [03:59] ogra: uh... well, ok [03:59] http://www.fabbione.net/new_office.jpg <- phear my 3 heads workstation [03:59] fabbione : Shows as being in main here... [03:59] the source is in universe [04:00] Oh, I see. Source in universe, binaries in main. That's not even supposed to be possible. [04:00] infinity: what are the upgrade issues around php4->php5? [04:00] well i just did an ls [04:01] hey mdz === blueyed_ [~daniel@i53870159.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:01] mdz : For end users, probably none. For administrators, there's have to be a conscious decision made to switch, as I'm not comfortable with forcing an upgrade with a metapackage or any such thing. [04:01] infinity: pushing php4 into universe is tantamount to forcing an upgrade [04:01] mdz : Similar to apache -> apache2, but without the configuration headaches (as php4and php5 share nearly identical configurations) [04:01] fabbione, about time for some flatscreens :) [04:02] ogra: i don't like them [04:02] and the one i saw is too expensive [04:02] the one i really really like [04:02] + these 3 were for free :) [04:02] oh... but they save a lot of space and are good for your eyes [04:02] mdz : Well, I meant forcing an upgrade without them knowing about it. Pushing to universe to force a conscious upgrade is intentional (as was the case with apache) [04:02] space is no problem. i am still not happy with the quality of the pic they deliver [04:03] infinity: we never shipped apache 1.x in main [04:03] hi all [04:03] mdz : Oh, not even in warty? So we didn't. [04:04] nope [04:04] it's a tricky situation; if we demote php4 we'll probably need to add an upgrade note or something to tell the user what is happening [04:04] mdz : At any rate, nothing in main currently depends on php4, so dropping it back out doesn't suddenly make anything break. [04:05] infinity: but there are quite a lot of installed systems which are using it [04:05] infinity, as i said i'll have a lot of stuff depending on php soon for edubuntu [04:05] (in main that is) [04:05] ogra : Right, but those will all be new for breezy. [04:05] ogra: those should use php5 from the start [04:05] nope, not all... [04:05] oki [04:06] assuming we get it in [04:06] infinity: I assume you're planning to land it RSN if it's intended for breezy? [04:06] mdz : Yes, this is true. I'm not sure if there is a sane way to force that sort of thing, though. We can't have fake php4 packages in main that tell people to upgrade to php5, that's just icky. Do we not consider documentation in upgrade notes to be "good enough"? [04:06] i cant promise that all are compatible already... i have to research that first [04:07] mdz : I can land it tomorrow (my Monday)... The sid upload was pretty much waiting on newraff coming back to life. [04:07] ogra: better to just do it, and see what breaks [04:07] ok [04:07] ogra : I can help you test easily enough. Nothing should break, though. [04:08] infinity, if upstream says its ready i'm fine... and suspect it to work then... its just some minutes of browsing through the upstream pages :) [04:08] mdz : We really have no way to force upgrades of anything outside the scope of ubuntu-desktop. Server users are generally left on their own for these sorts of things. === GNULinuxer [~ghoseb@59.95.1.156] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zwnj [~behnam@81.31.160.199] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:08] infinity: we've never had to handle this situation before; there isn't a general precedent yet [04:09] Fair enough. [04:09] what i'm worried about is he upgradeability php4->5 if people already using something i switch to 5 [04:09] infinity: is upstream dropping support for php4 within breezy's lifetime? [04:10] mdz : That's my fear, yes. php4 will EOL fairly soon, AFAICT, and I don't want to be stuck being upstream for it, as I am for php3 in Debian. [04:10] infinity: php5 would be a major UVF exception, and create a lot of additional transition work for MOTU [04:10] (By "fairly soon", I mean "within a year or so") [04:11] mdz : I know. I let the dates slip by while working on X. I suck. [04:11] mdz : I can work with MOTU to make sure everything's happy there. In most cases, it's just a question of s/4/5/, or adding alternate dependencies to things. [04:11] it might be feasible to allow it into main, but I'm not sure that we can demote php4 this late in the game [04:12] mdz : We could ship both for this cycle, but we definitely don't want to ship php4 for our big "supported for 5 years" breezy+1 release. [04:12] that's 9 months away yet [04:12] mdz : I'd be happy enough shipping both right now (though pitti was really keen on dropping php4 to universe) [04:13] Dropping php4 to universe also gets rid of the Debian->Ubuntu diff, which makes life easier. [04:13] infinity, how that ? [04:13] But, how bout we get php5 in, I try to help people migrate stuff, and if it looks demoteable later, we try then? [04:13] it just moves the work to the (overworked) MOTU [04:14] ogra : php4's packaging in Ubuntu is different solely because of the main/universe split. If it was in universe, it could have the Debian sources unchanged. [04:14] mdz: do you have a moment to talk about gkt-sharp next? [04:14] infinity: is the infrastructure side of SoundEvents completed? [04:14] tseng: ok [04:14] infinity, that would break a lot of setups that still want to run 4 i guess, no ? [04:15] mdz : I'll upload whatever changed need to be made there tonight and update the wiki. Deal? [04:15] ogra : Not sure how it would break anything. [04:15] infinity: ok, please update status for anything with your name attached [04:15] infinity, me neither, i'm no php guy at all... [04:15] : [04:16] ogra : Anyone running packaged php4 apps with Ubuntu is doing so from universe (there are none in main), so moving php4 doesn't hurt them. Anyone running unpackaged stuff would just continue using php4 packages from hoary until they upgrade. [04:16] ogra: I know of a number of packages that won't run on php5, but that's no big problem as they're not in main [04:16] infinity, but if the possibility exists, it would geerate a ton of bugreports we (MOTU) had to deal with [04:16] ogra: do you have an email for Unfrgiven [04:16] tseng, nope === {Seb} [~{Seb}@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:16] ogra : Just cause I wear a big hat with "main" on it doesn't mean I can't handle php4 bug reports for universe as well. I do maintain it in Debian, afterall. === infinity needs to go help his girlfriend cook. Back in a bit. === Yvonne [~fsck@cn-sdm-cr02-2552.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:17] infinity, i'll qoute you on that ! [04:17] seems nobody in #ubuntu can remember, but once in this channel i was told how to create a fake packacge so that apt-get ignores certain updates? i dont want apt-get to download and upgrade to new kernels === mdz [~mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [04:18] lsuactiafner: dude, I told you, put the kernels on hold if you really don't want updates === mdz [~mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:18] lsuactiafner: if someone mentioned it here before, you can search the online logs for this channel [04:19] bob2 : there is no hold option i found, lock didnt work [04:19] mdz: ok so, im not really thrilled about where gtk-sharp2 has gotten upstream compared to what was projected (final release in Sept, assuming freezes sooner) [04:19] oh, btw, fabbione, could you add edubuntu to the logbot ? [04:19] lsuactiafner: this isn't development-related, #ubuntu [04:19] s/edubuntu/#edubuntu [04:20] mdz: there still is no real plan, and the options upstream gave me I'm not a big fan of. might be time to talk about demoting things before we get into breezy release crunch [04:21] tseng: I'm not entirely clear what you mean...we need to back out on mono-in-main for breezy? [04:22] mdz, only certain apps [04:22] mdz: mono itself isnt in bad shape, but we are justifying main status by the gtk-sharp2 apps [04:22] ogra: we have no apps in main so far, and gtk-sharp2 is in the dependency chain for the one app we have seeded [04:22] mdz: gtk-sharp2 still isnt in a state that id be happy pushing off on canonical for support [04:23] tseng: what are the issues? [04:23] mdz: there is no plan for releasing a stable api [04:23] mdz, we had at least two i can remember, tomboy and beagle [04:23] which wasnt really noticeable at any point in development [04:23] because there are backwards compat hooks [04:24] while only beagle is gtk.shrap2 afaik [04:24] most stuff works on rebuild [04:24] ogra: and tomboy doesn't depend on gtk-sharp2? [04:24] but thinking about supporting a release for 6 months.. our stuff will work, people building apps from tarball/cvs (common) will probably break [04:24] mdz, not on 2 iirc [04:24] tseng: they'll have the same problem if it's in universe [04:24] tseng: I'd like to have beagle [04:25] mdz: beagle is a different story, amd64 guys say is unstable across the board [04:25] yep, it is... i'd put more tim in it if i had it [04:25] i cant get anyone to go upstream and work it out, thought [04:26] mdz: if the api breaks in universe, canonical support isnt holding the bag [04:26] its about supporting something upstream doesnt want to still [04:27] sorry for mixing in two issues now. [04:27] tseng: if beagle is a bust, it needs to be removed from the supported seed === Yann2 [~Yann2@p54A5CEEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:27] hi [04:28] yes, id like to call that one for sure. if its going to explode on amd64 we cant have it in main [04:28] i'm willing to create an Ubuntu-europe foundation... who should I discuss that with? [04:28] Yann2: how do you mean by foundation? [04:28] Yann2: right now we have a number of "local teams" in eurpoe [04:29] the same as the mozilla europe foundation [04:29] tseng > I know, i'm leading the french one [04:29] we currently are working together with the german team [04:29] tseng: if it's solid on i386 but flaky on amd64, that isn't necessarily a show-stopper [04:29] to buy a new server for both websites [04:29] so long as it builds [04:29] we got many, many more monney as expected [04:30] mdz: hm then we can keep tracking beagle a little longer [04:30] in fact we got 1200e on one day, and 1500 have already been promised [04:30] mdz, most other mono stuff works fine on amd64... its only beagle that behaves _this_ bad [04:31] as that monney basically is for french and german teams [04:31] we thought it could maybe be useful to other locoteams === {Seb1 [~{Seb}@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bddebian [~bddebian@pcp08717033pcs.phnixv01.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:31] Hello [04:31] <{Seb1> hey bddebian [04:32] Yann2, smurfix is the lead of the loco team administration, you should probably talk to him if he's around [04:32] Morning {Seb1 How goes it? [04:32] ogra > we already are working together [04:32] <{Seb1> bddebian: it is going great - i'm just creating a GPG key [04:32] we just want to officialize it [04:32] Cool [04:33] <{Seb1> bddebian: so i can sign the Code of Conduct and the NuN Code of Conduct [04:33] NuN? [04:33] <{Seb1> New Users Network [04:33] <{Seb1> i'm joining (hopefully) [04:34] <{Seb1> since i'm pretty rubbish at everything else but I should be able to give something back to Ubuntu by helping w/ documentation etc... === zwnj [~behnam@81.31.160.199] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === littlepaul [~littlepau@p5084CC09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === {Seb1 [~{Seb}@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:35] <{Seb1> i just killed gnome-panel which also killed Gaim [04:35] {Seb1, NuN has a own CoC ? [04:35] erk [04:35] ogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUsersNetworkGuidelines, it seems [04:36] <{Seb1> ogra: Guidelines even [04:36] eek [04:36] ah, ok [04:36] you're right i'll talk about that to smurfix :) [04:37] Yann2, yep, that'd be best... he is already tightly connected with ubuntu and knows where to go with this request [04:37] ok [04:37] <{Seb1> yay! made my key with Seahorse [04:37] hm, I thought they'd fixed the '"New User Mentors" are people who dedicate at least 10 hours per week to helping new Ubuntu users.' thing [04:38] mdz: ok, gtk-sharp2 isnt going to explode if we ship as is. ill update status and try to get beagle 0.12 working (should fix a few peoples issues) === TD [~mike@foghorn.codeweavers.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["No] [04:38] <{Seb1> bob2: i can do that :-) [04:38] {Seb1: if you're interested in documentaiton, you can join the docteam we need all the help we can get [04:38] tseng: yes, beagle 0.12 can have an exception to UVF ;-) [04:39] <{Seb1> jsgotangco: what does that entail? [04:39] <\sh> hmmm..i should have a shower..that I forgot during the day...and the buildds are busy as hell [04:39] {Seb1: wiki work, docbook work [04:40] (although docbook knowledge iis not necessarily required welcome nonetheless) === darkling [~hugo@81-5-136-19.dsl.eclipse.net.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === {Seb1 is now known as {Seb} === doko [~doko___@dsl-084-059-088-179.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pedro [~pedro@pc-200-74-115-115.megavia.pc.metropolis-inter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [~pitti@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:00] heya pitti [05:00] Hi [05:01] <{Seb}> who are all these pople? [05:01] <{Seb}> *people? [05:02] <{Seb}> i wonder if brown.freenode.net has gone down.... [05:02] {Seb}: Lost in Plug === darkling [~hugo@81-5-136-19.dsl.eclipse.net.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [~Mez@cpc2-lich4-3-0-cust115.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Panzerboy [~stelu@panzerboy.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel === niran [~niran@cpe-67-10-213-51.houston.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === j_fletcher [~james@nukeh.plus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kamion [~cjwatson@83-216-156-196.colinw664.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jbailey [~jbailey@testhaus.cns.utoronto.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lathiat [lathiat@gasp.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dark [deviled_eg@darkx.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JanC [~janc@JanC.member.lugwv] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _julien [julien@feng.planet-work.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robtaylor [~robtaylor@217.204.121.82] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jdub [~jdub@home.waugh.id.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === moquist [~moquist@pool-70-16-195-138.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nomeata [jojo@nomeata.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === whiprush [~jorge@arslinux.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === buxy [~raphael@arrakeen.ouaza.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mako [~mako@bork.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === xxenon [xxenon@81.13.238.141] has joined #ubuntu-devel === toresbe [tsb@developer.skolelinux.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === \sh [~sh@server3.servereyes.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === infinity [~adconrad@loki.0c3.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shackan [~shackan@host54-100.pool8259.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === luis_ [~louie@c-66-31-46-131.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === poningru [~poningru@pool-70-110-79-214.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wasabi [~wasabi@c-67-174-81-195.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:14] mdz: http://live.gnome.org/Luminocity [05:17] yo yo, it's Stone [05:17] +r [05:17] or stoned [05:17] daniels_: hey kid [05:18] daniels_: i suggest you read a bit of the scrollback in here [05:18] daniels_: next step is you sending me 10$ for beer [05:19] fabbione: what did he do? ;) [05:19] LOVE LOVE LOVE... [05:19] all i need is lovee... [05:20] papparapaaaa === HWolf loves everyone [05:20] when is X expected to be straightened out, out of couriosity? [05:20] OddAbe19: join the legions of people who want to know that. ;) [05:20] OddAbe19: never.. that will be the surprise feature for breezy === davyd laughs [05:20] lol [05:20] no software will compile [05:21] fabbione: i read the scrollback, yeah [05:21] fabbione: i'll look into libx11 tomorrow [05:21] I know i'm not the only one that wants to know, i was just wondering if it's going to bee soon? [05:21] it's 0122 on a sunday night, been tied up with family stuff all weekend [05:21] daniels_: and xterm please [05:21] OddAbe19: knowing X, it'd not hold my breath. But we all know the X team are hardworking and competent. ;) [05:22] xterm should point to /etc/X11/app-defaults and not /usr... [05:22] is there a workaround to the X keyboard problems? [05:22] HWolf, yeah, praise the X team [05:22] :-D [05:23] yeah, find the easter egg in breezy.... get your x working ;) [05:23] <\sh> hmmm [05:23] <\sh> something went wrong === littlepaul is now known as littlepaul_ [05:25] s [05:25] \sh: what else is new ;) [05:26] <\sh> HWolf: ah no...I just saw a package which wasn't for ubuntu..but accepted by the buildd...strange... [05:27] \sh : ? [05:27] <\sh> infinity: rezound [05:28] <\sh> infinity: i386 list says: not for us..but katie accepted and changes as well [05:28] \sh : not-for-us is just for the buildds, not for the archive in general. [05:29] \sh : katie will still accept source uploads, but the buildds won't ever touch it until it's not not-for-us. [05:29] <\sh> infinity: but it's in the archives ;) [05:29] \sh : Then it was built before I NFU'd it. [05:29] \sh : And it's was later NFU'd to prevent autobuilding of new ujploads until its dependencies were ready. [05:29] <\sh> infinity: the last version actually..not the new one [05:30] \sh : I'm assuming it was tied up in the C++ transition (or still is)? [05:30] <\sh> infinity: merge [05:30] \sh : NFU has nothing to do with the archive, only buildds. Does that clear it up? [05:30] <\sh> infinity: all deps are there and it build fine here [05:30] <\sh> infinity: yep [05:30] \sh : So, are you saying I should clear the NFU? :) [05:31] <\sh> infinity: please :) [05:31] \sh : You sort of stopped communicating with me about frozenapps a few weeks ago, so anything still frozen has been that way for a while. [05:31] Which appears to be 12 packages, still. [05:32] <\sh> infinity: pls give me the url again...I just lost everything since my breezy adventure xorg failures [05:33] \sh : http://cerberus.0c3.net/~adconrad/frozenapps.txt [05:33] \sh : Let me go over it really quickly here. [05:34] <\sh> libace is not transitioned...new upstream and really crappy rules :( UNfrgiven and I are lost with this... [05:35] libcrypto++ has a number of issues, being discussed on debian-devel [05:35] <\sh> gfccore is in NEW queue...I asked for NEW love, but actually...it looks like it's stucked there [05:36] <\sh> mpqc (libsc6c2) looks like ready to go [05:37] gfccore looks like it made it in, to me. [05:37] what about libcln? I thought that was in? [05:37] <\sh> libcln3c2 is also ready to go [05:37] yes, it is in universe [05:38] as are libfox1.0c2 & 1.2c2 [05:38] <\sh> yepp [05:38] Is there a reason we don't have libdebtags1-dev ? [05:38] <\sh> yehia is a stopper...will have a look right now :( [05:38] <\sh> openvrml..stopper [05:39] bddebian: perhaps it went into debian after UVF? [05:39] <\sh> tse3 (libtse3-0.2.7c2) is ready to go [05:39] bddebian: it was uploaded to unstable on 1st july [05:39] <\sh> libginac1.3c2 as well..go [05:39] <\sh> libxdb1 i can't find [05:40] <\sh> libsigcperl1c2 not finished [05:40] ajmitch: Ahh [05:40] <\sh> ok...let me quick fix this [05:41] <\sh> infinity: give me one hour at last 1 1/2 hours...to get the rest != ace [05:41] <\sh> and aqsis [05:41] \sh, ajmitch : When you guys are telling me stuff is "in", you're making sure it's built on all arches, right? [05:42] good night everyone, pleasant sunday to all [05:42] \sh : I'm going to be for 6 or 7 hours, can you just ping me in /msg with a list of what is and isn't ready later tonight? [05:42] \sh : s/going to be/going to bed/ [05:43] <\sh> infinity: normally yes....I just check again all stuff..cause some are missing bugzilla entries :( [05:45] <\sh> infinity: I'll mail u the list of finished libs .. === Arrogance [~aks@CPE00112f96b894-CM001225423850.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:50] So what is the appropriate method to request a synch (new package) from Debian upstream? [05:52] lamont: here? [05:52] <\sh> ok...sigcperl uploaded ... [05:53] bddebian: ask elmo to do it [05:53] pitti: OK, thanks [05:53] bddebian: however, we have upstream version freeze now [05:54] pitti: I know but packagesearch in merge now build-depends libdebtags1-dev and we don't have it. === mitsuhiko [~blackbird@80.122.201.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Littlechand [~chand@ABordeaux-151-1-28-150.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:55] bddebian: ah, for universe? === ogra [~ogra@p5089DA0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:55] Hi ogra === mitsuhiko [~blackbird@80.122.201.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === {Seb} [~{Seb}@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zwnj [~behnam@81.31.160.199] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zwnj [~behnam@81.31.160.199] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:06]