[12:38] <squinn> It's been forever, docteam.
[12:38] <squinn> I've got some patches, should I just send them to the list?
[06:15] <Burgundavia> mdke, when you get up, can you look at --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianRosettaDone?action=show
[06:59] <Burgundavia> salut thechitowncubs jsgotangco 
[06:59] <jsgotangco> salut
[07:00] <Burgundavia> thinking of more wiki categories
[07:00] <Burgundavia> like locoteam
[07:04] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: have you tried google earth? is it accurate?
[07:05] <Burgundavia> no idea
[07:05] <Burgundavia> google earth is windows only
[07:05] <Burgundavia> and I don't run wine
[07:05] <Burgundavia> remember, I hate windows
[07:05] <jsgotangco> im playing around with my wife's laptop which has it installed
[07:06] <jsgotangco> lots of eye candy though
[07:06] <Burgundavia> I see
[07:06] <Burgundavia> have your heard back from claire yet?
[07:06] <jsgotangco> but pretty useless for the rest of the people of the earth
[07:06] <jsgotangco> i just faxed my stuff today and its probably only 7am on london
[07:07] <Burgundavia> ya
[07:08] <Burgundavia> I just realized why I got an email about the laptop testing team
[07:08] <jsgotangco> oh you did
[07:08] <Burgundavia> when I emailed Jane about a job, she said not, but she said she could do something else for me
[07:08] <Burgundavia> I think she signed me up
[07:08] <jsgotangco> (well actually i scanned my doc, her fax wasn't responding)
[07:08] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[07:08] <jsgotangco> job?
[07:08] <Burgundavia> asked canonical for a job
[07:09] <jsgotangco> hmmm i should do that sometime heh
[07:09] <jsgotangco> i think you're better off asking claire
[07:09] <Burgundavia> something tells me they now get lots of job seekers
[07:10] <jsgotangco> oh im pretty sure of that
[07:11] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: or probably silbs that's your best bet
[07:11] <Burgundavia> silbs?
[07:11] <jsgotangco> jane silber
[07:11] <Burgundavia> ah
[07:13] <jsgotangco> she heads marketing..
[07:13] <Burgundavia> ya
[07:13] <Burgundavia> there are a lot of half-finished and crap docs out there
[07:13] <Burgundavia> most people right docs for themselves
[07:14] <Burgundavia> it is hard to right for everybody, obiviously
[07:14] <jsgotangco> well obviously...people write their experiences instead of best practices
[07:14] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:15] <Burgundavia> pretty much every doc I have tagged as being one has also needed to be tagged as Cleanup
[07:15] <jsgotangco> on the wiki?
[07:15] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:16] <Burgundavia> after I tag everything Archive
[07:16] <Burgundavia> I am going to add a huge notice to the top
[07:16] <Burgundavia> saying that those pages are archived
[07:17] <jsgotangco> hmmm i almost forgot we have a meeting on the 29th
[07:17] <jsgotangco> err 28th
[07:17] <Burgundavia> my meeting attendance might fall through the floor when I get a new job
[07:18] <jsgotangco> its alright sometimes the ML is a better source for conversation than the actual meeting
[07:18] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:19] <Burgundavia> the meeting at leasts gets us together
[07:19] <Burgundavia> and forces an issue on the table
[07:20] <Burgundavia> my goal is to have every page the wiki at least touched after autoimport, by the end of the week
[07:20] <jsgotangco> adding GPL to licenses?
[07:20] <Burgundavia> just an idea from mpt
[07:21] <jsgotangco> we already have GFDL unless what mpt meant was adding GPL so that others who use it will adhere to it as well
[07:21] <Burgundavia> adding the GPL would allow it to go back upstream to Debian
[07:22] <jsgotangco> transformed as debian docs?
[07:23] <Burgundavia> sure
[07:24] <jsgotangco> brb im gonna switch to kubuntu
[07:40] <Burgundavia> highvoltage, jsgotangco have you updated your machines recently?
[07:41] <Burgundavia> comments? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KeepingUbuntuUpdated
[07:41] <Burgundavia> I know it is not perfect, but it is a start
[07:47] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: what do you mean?
[07:55] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, the message is quite clear though
[07:55] <jsgotangco> (i just updatedmy machine a few minutes ago)
[07:57] <Burgundavia> I need the screen from synaptic that shows packages to be updated
[07:58] <jsgotangco> oh too late
[08:00] <jsgotangco> have you noticed that when you start ubuntu update manager, it updates itself but when you start synaptic it wants to be updated again
[08:03] <Burgundavia> no idea
[08:03] <Burgundavia> hmm
[08:04] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: sorry, didn't see your link before i asked. I thought you meant updated to breezy or something, so it was just to make sure.
[08:07] <Burgundavia> no, I just need a link of the popup dialog in synaptic that shows the packages that are to be updated
[08:07] <Burgundavia> for that wiki page I just pasted
[08:15] <Burgundavia> well, I didn't mean to blog twice today
[10:40] <Burgundavia> mdke, when you get up, can you look at --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ItalianRosettaDone?action=show
[11:37] <rob^> hmm
[11:38] <rob^> is anyone awake?
[11:42] <rob^> :(
[11:51] <sivang> rob^: I am 
[11:51] <sivang> rob^: (acutally mostly on and off the machine)
[12:00] <mdke> morning all
[12:46] <highvoltage> morning, mdke 
[12:46] <highvoltage> oops. sorry, didn't realise i was 45 minutes late :)
[12:46] <highvoltage> mdke: good afternoon, then ;)
[12:58] <mdke> hi there
[12:58] <mdke> still morning
[03:38] <jsgotangco> mdke: ping/
[03:38] <jsgotangco> ?
[03:42] <jsgotangco> hmmm girlfriend must have arrived already
[04:25] <jsgotangco> man this oXygen app for doing docbook is great but a real resource hog...
[04:26] <jsgotangco> hey jjesse
[04:26] <jjesse> hiya jsgotangco
[04:27] <jsgotangco> jjesse: what's cooking
[04:28] <jjesse> not much trying to see if there is a way to use the docbook plugin for eclipse
[04:28] <jjesse> normal work as well
[04:29] <jsgotangco> i've been testing out a 3rd party app called oXygen
[04:29] <jjesse> any good?
[04:29] <jsgotangco> it has an eclipse plugin
[04:29] <jsgotangco> sure
[04:29] <jsgotangco> its non-free though
[04:30] <jjesse> non-free as cost or ?
[04:30] <jsgotangco> cost
[04:30] <jjesse> non-free as in ubuntu non-free
[04:30] <jsgotangco> but its what sean w uses so...
[04:30] <jsgotangco> im actually using it now
[04:31] <jsgotangco> i was just grumbling how resource intensive it is on my side
[04:31] <jjesse> $48 not too bad...
[04:31] <jsgotangco> yes compared to other solutions like xml spy
[04:32] <jsgotangco> since its java, it runs on all platforms nicely
[04:32] <jsgotangco> i even tried it on windows
[04:32] <jjesse> i notifced that looking at website
[04:34] <jsgotangco> although bluefish does have docbook support, its not so smart
[04:37] <squinn> jsgotangco, you there?
[04:37] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:37] <jsgotangco> how can i help you sir
[04:37] <jjesse> hiya squinn
[04:37] <squinn> just an alert that i've been having some computer problems
[04:37] <squinn> hence why i've not been in contact with the group
[04:38] <jsgotangco> squinn: its ok there's nothing much cooking either..we don't have a working X...heh
[04:38] <squinn> heh
[04:38] <squinn> and also that i've got an RL meeting thursday night, so i can't make ubuntu-doc meeitng
[04:38] <jsgotangco> RL?
[04:39] <jsgotangco> a lot of people have been busy with their lives, that is good that means people are thriving at the moment...
[04:39] <squinn> real life
[04:39] <squinn> and alright
[04:39] <jsgotangco> as for me i'm getting quite hooked on the style guide
[04:39] <jsgotangco> ahh
[04:40] <jsgotangco> i actually wrote some docs over the weekend in a windows machine using oXygen and tortoise hehehe...
[04:40] <jsgotangco> since my laptop was broke
[04:41] <squinn> hah
[04:42] <jsgotangco> its our little secret ;)
[04:45] <jjesse> hey nothing wrong about using a window machine :)
[04:45] <jjesse> i do half the time
[04:46] <jjesse> <-- windows network admin
[04:48] <jsgotangco> ahhh i have a client who i admin 2 win2k3 servers...
[04:48] <jsgotangco> they're really nice IMO
[04:49] <jsgotangco> but most of the time i handle RHEL and Oracle installations
[04:51] <jjesse> ah win2k3 servers are very nice and stable
[04:51] <jjesse> easy to admin even w/ stupid people using them as terminal servers :)
[04:51] <jjesse> who
[04:51] <jjesse> doh wrong window for last mesaage
[04:52] <highvoltage> indeed
[04:52] <jsgotangco> sp1 did bork an AD once for me though...
[04:52] <jsgotangco> other than that, everything as i want windows to be..
[04:53] <jsgotangco> (they're not so good as desktops though)
[04:53] <highvoltage> jsgotangco, jjesse: can you please keep windows discussions off this channel?
[04:53] <jsgotangco> sure
[04:53] <jsgotangco> I LOVE IT
[05:00] <jsgotangco> alright folks, if you got time to do it before the meeting, please update your work in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects and I will be cleaning up the page before the 28th..
[05:00] <jsgotangco> it would also be nice if your current docbook work has updated status ids so that once we start refreshing the docs for status and previews it'll be updated
[05:02] <jsgotangco> as for edubuntu stuff, its still in state of flux as we still don't have a usable installer, but im pretty sure majority of existing Ubuntu docs will go in as Yelp will be used as the help viewer so most of the edubuntu work will involve edubuntu-specific routines
[05:31] <jsgotangco> venda: hello
[05:31] <venda> hi
[05:32] <jsgotangco> venda: i looove oXygen
[05:33] <venda> cool, makes life much easier ;-)
[05:34] <jsgotangco> yeah i've been doing bits lately on it and seem to have sped up a bit in terms of output
[05:34] <venda> jsgotangco: just some news, checkout this project, just releasing. Not finished yet on the Web Site http://icdl.tsf.org.za
[05:35] <venda> and the license need variant sections
[05:36] <venda> how cool would it be if we could do these books in k/ubuntu
[05:36] <jsgotangco> computer driver's license?
[05:36] <venda> yes, like the ECDL
[05:36] <jjesse> never heard of a computer driver's license
[05:36] <jjesse> is that where computer drive trucks?
[05:36] <venda> :-) quite well known actually
[05:37] <jsgotangco> ZA has strange IT practices...
[05:37] <venda> anyway, it will be over 600 pages of materials
[05:37] <jsgotangco> holy crap
[05:37] <venda> we are just missing the OOo DB
[05:38] <venda> Would be nice to update them to 2.0
[05:38] <jsgotangco> venda: it could come in handy with Adi's Ubuntu Engineer certification stuff...
[05:38] <venda> not the same
[05:39] <jsgotangco> well yeah, its LPI compliant..
[05:39] <venda> that stuff is aimed at teaching newbies
[05:39] <jsgotangco> LPI shouldnt really be a concern on this one though...
[05:39] <venda> jsgotangco: ICDL is totally diferent
[05:39] <venda> jsgotangco: ICDL is for people who are now to computers
[05:40] <jsgotangco> venda: not related to LearnLinux?
[05:40] <venda> It is
[05:40] <venda> but not directly
[05:40] <jsgotangco> LearnLinux is pretty newbie stuff at the start....
[05:40] <venda> LearnLinux is aimed at people who want to administrate
[05:41] <venda> openICDL is aimed at new desktop users
[05:41] <venda> openICDL is backed by a recognized vertification
[05:41] <venda> oops
[05:41] <venda> certification
[05:41] <jsgotangco> hmmm im looking at the courseware...
[05:42] <venda> the license is cc-by-nc 2.5
[05:42] <jsgotangco> theres material in it already...
[05:42] <venda> jsgotangco: yes the documents are written
[05:42] <venda> jsgotangco: all except the DB
[05:43] <jsgotangco> wonder if chua did something similar on his planned courseworks..
[05:43] <venda> dunno
[05:43] <jsgotangco> he did metion a while back on those plans...but anyways...
[05:43] <jsgotangco> venda: its a nice idea for a future release though..
[05:44] <venda> I am making it a deb
[05:45] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[05:45] <jsgotangco> venda: it has your email on website feedback heh
[05:46] <venda> that's correct because I am part of the project :-)
[05:46] <jsgotangco> i thought you wanted me to look at a different project
[05:46] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:46] <venda> not yet
[05:46] <venda> st533 se335ng 5t
[05:46] <venda> 66-s
[05:47] <venda> still selling it
[05:47] <jsgotangco> you surprise me almost every week
[05:47] <venda> busy busy
[05:47] <venda> so much to do, so little time
[05:48] <venda> jsgotangco: on the other project I split it into several parts
[05:48] <jsgotangco> yes i noticed it makes it more easier...
[05:48] <jsgotangco> i just refreshed svn today
[05:48] <venda> yeah, much
[05:49] <venda> oh you were able to do anonymous checkout?
[05:49] <jsgotangco> debugging it as a single project would make it easier if its split up
[05:49] <jsgotangco> just loads of xrefs
[05:49] <jsgotangco> yep
[05:49] <jsgotangco> its working now
[05:49] <venda> Oh cool, the ACLs must be working :-) finally
[05:50] <venda> was starting to question my sanity
[05:50] <venda> well off to do some more work
[05:50] <jsgotangco> its working great now, tested it on ubuntu, osx and windows
[05:50] <venda> osx, you have a mac
[05:51] <jsgotangco> my wife uses an ibook
[05:51] <venda> ah ha
[05:51] <venda> ok. c ya later
[05:51] <jsgotangco> ok cya keep me in the news if there is one :P
[05:52] <venda> will do
[07:16] <squinn> hey froud, how are you?
[07:17] <venda> squinn: hi, good thanks, and you
[07:20] <venda> squinn: venda == froud , what can I do for you mate
[07:21] <venda> Hmm, anyone seen any good documents on preseeding with Ubuntu?
[07:22] <squinn> not mcuh going on here
[07:25] <venda> yeah
[07:26] <venda> u mean at work
[07:26] <squinn> work? i'm not at work.
[07:27] <venda> so not much going on at home?
[07:28] <squinn> yep
[07:28] <venda> well there is plenty to do if you're bored :-)
[07:29] <squinn> like work on docs?
[07:30] <venda> no!! we don't work on docs here :-)
[07:30] <venda> Who works on docs here?
[07:31] <venda> squinn: we just talk about and pretend to be doing so. But actually work on docs. NEVER!!
[07:32] <squinn> hah
[07:32] <squinn> i need my commit account. :D
[07:32] <venda> I thought elmo sent that out a while back
[07:32] <squinn> he did.'
[07:33] <venda> and so, what's up
[07:33] <squinn> my pgp key was a little wrong. 
[07:33] <squinn> so i sent out a new one to james
[07:33] <squinn> and then?
[07:33] <squinn> ..died
[07:33] <squinn> oh crap.
[07:34] <squinn> i reformatted and lost my PGP key..AGAIN
[07:34] <venda> Hmm, you will have to ping him again. Nothing we can do now.
[07:34] <venda> Oh dude, you need to get control
[07:34] <venda> we can't have you constantly asking elmo for updates to your keys
[07:35] <squinn> i know, i intend to put it on my site so i don't lose it
[07:35] <squinn> but my hosting's screwed up
[07:35] <squinn> sysadmin has no control
[07:35] <venda> backup to flash disk
[07:35] <venda> floppy disk
[07:35] <squinn> good idea
[07:36] <venda> geeze use yahoo briefcase or a gmail account
[07:36] <venda> there must be 100 ways you can backup you keys
[07:36] <squinn> true, i can put it on gmail as well
[07:36] <{Seb}> does anyone know why i was banned from #ubuntu-devel
[07:37] <venda> no point crying about your account when you cant keep your keys
[07:37] <squinn> true, venda
[07:37] <venda> {Seb}: what did you do wrong? did you really T somebody off
[07:38] <{Seb}> i don't know!
[07:38] <venda> How do you know you were banned
[07:38] <{Seb}> i asked a kernel question yesterday - without a reply
[07:38] <{Seb}> Cannot join #ubuntu-devel (You are banned).
[07:38] <venda> Ah ha
[07:38] <{Seb}> what does that mean?
[07:38] <venda> somebody banned you
[07:39] <venda> is your nick registered
[07:39] <{Seb}> how can i find of who?
[07:39] <{Seb}> yes
[07:39] <venda> Ok so its not a mistake
[07:39] <{Seb}> how do i get unbanned?
[07:39] <{Seb}> and how can i find out who did it?
[07:40] <venda> {Seb}: actually I don't know, its the first time I have heard of this happening
[07:40] <squinn> venda, what files do i need to backup?
[07:40] <{Seb}> venda: could you go in and ask for me?
[07:40] <venda> {Seb}: I will try
[07:44] <{Seb}> any luck?
[07:48] <venda> {Seb}: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-devel-current.html
[07:49] <venda> 10:21	\sh	fabbione: whats up with seb?
[07:49] <venda> 10:21	fabbione	constantly off-topic
[07:49] <venda> 10:21	fabbione	harassing devels
[07:49] <venda> 10:21	\sh	well yes
[07:49] <venda> 10:21	fabbione	he has been warned tons of times
[07:50] <venda> {Seb}: sorry dude, you will have to speak with fabbione
[07:51] <venda> squinn: you need to backup your keys
[07:51] <venda> asc and some stuff
[07:51] <venda> depends on where you saved them
[08:01] <{Seb}> venda: i am now offically offended
[08:02] <venda> {Seb}: sorry, can't help. But seems you had a number of warnings
[08:03] <{Seb}> venda: well - i think ubuntu need to think about their IRC channels
[08:03] <venda> why is that?
[08:04] <{Seb}> i wanted to ask a question about the development branch
[08:05] <mdke> hi
[08:05] <{Seb}> and on #ubuntu, nobody will help with breezy
[08:05] <mdke> {Seb}, nothing we can do man
[08:06] <venda> {Seb}: Fabbione is very level headed, he would not ban you if there was no cause to do so
[08:07] <venda> {Seb}: the only thing you can do is message him and chat with him in private
[08:07] <venda> {Seb}: try understand what you did to force his hand
[08:07] <venda> {Seb}: he is the only person who can help you now
[09:41] <Burgundavia> the wiki looks screwed --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges
[09:41] <Burgundavia> look at who has been editing
[09:42] <rwabel> Burgundavia: that's why it's locked :-)
[09:43] <Burgundavia> crap
[09:43] <Burgundavia> bloody wiki and corruption
[09:43] <rwabel> what happened?
[09:43] <Burgundavia> no idea
[09:43] <Burgundavia> I did some major editing last night, but when I went to bed, it was fine
[09:47] <rwabel> I did some today, but can't tell you when I last edited...but I only edit ther UserDocumentation
[09:48] <Burgundavia> you haven't edited after me
[09:48] <rwabel> :-)
[09:48] <rwabel> did something got lost?
[09:48] <Burgundavia> while your at it, you can look at this -->https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KeepingUbuntuUpdated
[09:48] <Burgundavia> I created it last night
[09:48] <Burgundavia> I am not happy with the writing
[09:49] <rwabel> you mean with the context or the style? English isn't my mother tongue :-)
[09:49] <Burgundavia> anything
[09:49] <Burgundavia> what is your mother tongue?
[09:49] <rwabel> swiss german
[09:50] <rwabel> btw the update notification stuff is strange
[09:50] <Burgundavia> oh?
[09:50] <rwabel> for several weeks now the icon doesn't appear at all
[09:50] <Burgundavia> you running hoary?
[09:50] <rwabel> yes
[09:51] <rwabel> it run well some weeks ago
[09:51] <Burgundavia> did you get the last ff security update?
[09:51] <Burgundavia> the one that broke everything/
[09:51] <rwabel> from bp?
[09:51] <Burgundavia> no, from the security team
[09:52] <rwabel> mhh quit possible, I'm always up to date
[09:52] <rwabel> when was that? I'm using ff from bp
[09:53] <rwabel> about your site: are u sure that the update-notifier is installed by default on hoary?
[09:55] <Burgundavia> there will be another security update today or tomorrow
[09:55] <Burgundavia> so wait for it
[09:55] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:55] <Burgundavia> absolutely certain
[09:55] <rwabel> ok
[09:55] <Burgundavia> and the 1.0.6 version that is coming from the security team will override you bp one
[09:55] <Burgundavia> or at least it should
[09:56] <rwabel> mhh interesting did they chance their position about ff update? that's good
[09:56] <Burgundavia> basically ff is so screwed right now anyway that pitti figured he would break policy and backport it
[09:56] <rwabel> opera rocks!
[09:57] <rwabel> ff is also much slower than ff under windows
[09:57] <Burgundavia> I was an opera user from version 3 to version 7
[09:57] <rwabel> 7 was bad
[09:57] <Burgundavia> when I switched from RH 8 to Ubuntu, I just started using FF and liked it
[09:57] <rwabel> that made me change to ff
[09:57] <Burgundavia> 7 has an ugly UI
[09:57] <rwabel> I'm using 8.02 preview with bittorrent inside
[09:57] <rwabel> it's still the fastet browser
[09:58] <rwabel> I like ff under windows much much more than under linux
[09:58] <rwabel> can't you also change some settings in the update notifier? how often he checks for updates etc? that would also be good to put in the wiki
[09:59] <Burgundavia> don't think you can
[10:00] <Burgundavia> and people shouldn't be changing those settings anyway
[10:00] <rwabel> why not
[10:01] <rwabel> if you want to get notified all 12hours
[10:01] <rwabel> instead of 1 day or what it is by default
[10:01] <Burgundavia> umm...
[10:01] <Burgundavia> 1 day is fine
[10:01] <Burgundavia> Ubuntu/Gnome are all about sane and sensible defaults
[10:01] <rwabel> right
[10:02] <Burgundavia> if allow people to change that setting, they may disable it, and that is a bad thing
[10:03] <rwabel> good point
[10:03] <rwabel> that's a bit a problem with linux. if you want to have it easy a la windows you get limited....otherwise it makes it complicated and useres can "damage" stuff
[10:04] <Burgundavia> basically, forcing the user the make a choice is bad, and allowing them to change settings is essentially making a choice
[10:04] <Burgundavia> a smart and resourceful user can still disable the update manager
[10:04] <Burgundavia> just stop it from starting
[10:04] <Burgundavia> but there is no reason to make it easy to do so
[10:05] <Burgundavia> that is why linux is different than windows. You can still muck at that level if you need to
[10:05] <rwabel> I for example would like to have update notifier set to 12 hours or so. I don't want to remove it
[10:05] <Burgundavia> there are not that many security updates
[10:06] <rwabel> exactly, but I'm using bp. there are more packages coming
[10:06] <Burgundavia> then use synaptic
[10:07] <Burgundavia> the update manager is designed for Aunt Tillie, not us
[10:07] <rwabel> I do, but it would be practial to just see if a new package is there
[10:07] <rwabel> I do often just apt-get update to see if a new package is there
[10:08] <rwabel> but it's just a small feature for me
[10:08] <rwabel> but an essential one for new useres
[10:08] <rwabel> I mean the update notifier in general
[10:08] <Burgundavia> I rarely use it
[10:09] <Burgundavia> as I run Breezy and thus need the ability to remove/add packages
[10:09] <rwabel> breezy I read on the forum is broken right now, isn't it?
[10:09] <rwabel> huge problem with xserver?
[10:22] <Burgundavia> breezy works for me, but mileage varies greatly
[10:24] <rwabel> need to restart xserver, damn 24bit! I can only game fine with 16bit :-(
[10:27] <rwabel> mhh ubuntu won't let me logout :-)
[10:35] <rwabel> a wiki edit is back, thanks
[10:36] <Burgundavia> yes, just noticed that