[12:01] <seb128> Burgundavia: but that's the cancel from the login dialog, where you pick your username?
[12:01] <Burgundavia> seb128, yes
[12:01] <Mez> kool infinity :D thatnks for the update
[12:01] <martinhj> sladen: the ones official shipped with hoary and the ones I haved tried in breezy (2.6.12)
[12:02] <seb128> Burgundavia: weird
[12:03] <Burgundavia> seb128, I am also having a wierd resize issue with nautilus (new browwer mode). I suspect I may just have a borked nautilus
[12:03] <sladen> mjg59_: martinhj's Acer TravelMate 620 worked with 2.6.11-1-686 from hoary universe, doesn't work with current breezy 2.6.12 kernel, was anything added/changed to try and fix things up?  Apparently acpi-events aren't getting passed through
[12:03] <Riddell> mdz, Kamion: am I ok to upload a new koffice 1.4.1 i18n package?
[12:04] <tseng> infinity: do you see an evolution-sharp kick in your future?
[12:04] <mjg59_> sladen: Nothing I can think of off-hand
[12:04] <mjg59_> Though it's an Acer, so, well...
[12:04] <mdz> Riddell: koffice 1.4.1 is already uploaded?
[12:04] <Riddell> mdz: yes
[12:05] <mdz> Riddell: yes
[12:05] <Riddell> thanks
[12:05] <infinity> tseng : Will it build this time? :)
[12:06] <martinhj> mjg59_: but it works with kernels from the Linus' tree at kernel.org at least
[12:07] <tseng> infinity: you know what, let me remove universe from my pbuilder and try that
[12:07] <seb128> Burgundavia: what kind of issue?
[12:08] <Burgundavia> seb128, when I open nautilus, it flashes for about 1 sec to full screen, then down the remembered size
[12:08] <Burgundavia> and i don't have a slow machine
[12:09] <seb128> weird
[12:09] <whiprush> I just noticed that today also
[12:09] <tseng> infinity: deps seem resolveable
[12:09] <whiprush> also when hitting alt-f2 it does some weird flashing thing
[12:10] <tseng> infinity: by pbuilder wiht only main/restricted.
[12:10] <Burgundavia> whiprush, it is jumping 2 workspaces left
[12:10] <martinhj> sladen: / mjg59_: another thing that does not work with the ubuntu kernels besides the kernel events is that the brightness of the screen does not change when I plug/unplug the cable.. it does with other kernels
[12:10] <infinity> tseng : Good to hear, cause I already gave it back.
[12:10] <Burgundavia> seb128, basically, whenever it draws a new window, it is jumping 2 workspaces left
[12:11] <tseng> infinity: /me fanboys
[12:11] <tseng> *hide*
[12:11] <sladen> martinhj: the screen still works with the Ubuntu -686 kernel from universe?
[12:11] <sladen> martinhj: screen brightness changing on AC change?
[12:11] <Burgundavia> whiprush, can you confirm that that is what is happening to you?
[12:12] <mjg59_> martinhj: Yeah. Could you possibly try the latest 2.6.13-rc kernel?
[12:12] <martinhj> sladen: yes, it does
[12:12] <tseng> Burgundavia: were you the beagle + blam exploder dude?
[12:12] <mjg59_> It should have similar acpi code to ours
[12:12] <Burgundavia> seb128, might this be a keyboard breakage issue?
[12:12] <Burgundavia> tseng, yes
[12:12] <seb128> would be weird
[12:12] <tseng> Burgundavia: please test again in a few hours when evo-sharp builds
[12:12] <martinhj> mjg59_: from kernel.org or is it something in the repositories?
[12:12] <Burgundavia> tseng, beagle is currently non-functional on my machine
[12:12] <mjg59_> martinhj: From kernel.org
[12:12] <tseng> Burgundavia: i qualified "when evo-sharp builds"
[12:13] <Burgundavia> ah, ok
[12:13] <Burgundavia> tseng, cheers
[12:13] <tseng> im assuming that if your blocker
[12:13] <tseng> if not, id still be interested to hear back
[12:13] <Burgundavia> if it isn't, I will file a bug
[12:13] <tseng> cheers, please assign
[12:13] <martinhj> mjg59_: wont be doable before monday at least.. I'm going on vacation now.. but when I get home, I will...
[12:15] <mjg59_> martinhj: Cool, thanks
[12:18] <infinity> tseng : Still fails here.
[12:18] <tseng> infinity: gar
[12:19] <tseng> infinity: unresolved build-dep?
[12:20] <infinity> Still no mono-classlib-1.0-1.1.8.2
[12:20] <infinity> (which was provided by what, again?)
[12:21] <tseng> mono source
[12:21] <tseng> it should just divert to mono-classlib-1.0
[12:21] <tseng> which makes me wonder why we have it at all, but i didnt make that call
[12:21] <tseng> im sure there is a rational explination
[12:22] <infinity> Right, the virtual package is provided by mono-classlib-1.0.
[12:22] <infinity> Which still doesn't appear to be in main.
[12:22] <tseng> huh
[12:22] <tseng> but we... seeded it
[12:22] <tseng> days ago
[12:23] <infinity> Yes..
[12:23] <infinity> kamion : Still around?
[12:24] <Kamion> infinity: just
[12:25] <infinity> Kamion : Care to skool me on why seeding something to supported a couple of days ago doesn't (didn't?) magically make it jump to main? :)
[12:25] <infinity> Kamion : mono-classlib-1.0{,-dbg} in this case.
[12:25] <Kamion> because promotion to main is not automatic
[12:25] <Kamion> it needs an ftpmaster to run teri
[12:25] <infinity> Oh, feh.  That makes perfect sense.
[12:26] <Kamion> it's not on the promotion list though, one sec
[12:29] <Kamion> oh, er, cron.sync doesn't seem to have run since 21 July
[12:30] <Kamion> at least, not to completion
[12:30] <Kamion> # Germinate uses python logging module which clashes with katie's
[12:30] <Kamion> export XPYTHONPATH=$PYTHONPATH
[12:30] <Kamion> unset PYTHONPATH
[12:30] <Kamion> elmo: dude, you called a private module logging? :-)
[12:30] <restrex> anyone running the latest xorg build?
[12:31] <Kamion> elmo: I think this is yours to look at, anyway; all I can assume is that cron.sync is set -e'ing out before it gets round to running germinate, but I don't have the cronmail to tell me why
[12:31] <Burgundavia> seb128, whiprush has confirmed the bug
[12:34] <seb128> what bug?
[12:34] <Burgundavia> the wierd jumping workspaces bug
[12:34] <Burgundavia> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12994
[12:35] <tseng> seb128: heh evince is 100x faster. you rock
[12:36] <Burgundavia> 2 sec to load. Think we just kicked the crap out of acroread
[12:36] <seb128> tseng: I've not done a lot for this but thanks :)
[12:37] <tseng> Burgundavia: i was more bothered by taking several seconds to draw pages as i scroll through
[12:37] <Burgundavia> tseng, yes
[12:37] <tseng> Burgundavia: on a 500 page book
[12:37] <tseng> its now very fast.
[12:37] <Burgundavia> cool, go none of those
[12:37] <seb128> Burgundavia: you do alt-F2 and that change workspace?
[12:38] <Burgundavia> some dialogs cause you to show 2 workspaces to the left while drawing the window
[12:38] <Burgundavia> after they are finished drawing, they show you the correct window
[12:38] <Burgundavia> that is what is so baffling
[12:40] <seb128> works for me (tm)
[12:40] <Burgundavia> well, whiprush has it as well
[12:41] <Burgundavia> and we tested new users, so it is not something user specific
[12:41] <seb128> maybe you lack some updates
[12:41] <Burgundavia> for what?
[12:41] <seb128> or maybe xorg is borked
[12:42] <seb128> dunno
[12:42] <Burgundavia> I have nothing pending to update
[12:42] <seb128> maybe xorg is b0rked
[12:42] <Burgundavia> likely
[12:42] <Burgundavia> daniels, seb128 blames my bug on you
[12:43] <tseng> ez gtk boog
[12:47] <Burgundavia> seb128, should I file beagle bugs in bugzilla?
[12:48] <seb128> Burgundavia: ask tseng
[12:48] <restrex> anyone have the xbase-clients 6.8.2-35 package to share? Thanks.
[12:50] <Burgundavia> tseng, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13030
[12:53] <doko> seb128: pong
[12:54] <seb128> doko: so, what do we need to do to fix firefox?
[12:54] <seb128> doko: totem FTBFS too now ...
[12:55] <Burgundavia> tseng, sorry, I am an idiot, please excuse me
[12:57] <terrex> hi friends, i've just upgraded from yesterday to today (libx11-6, gnome-control-center,..) and when i login, the splash screen freezes and neither nautilus nor gnome-panel load. So i must to select from GDM "failsafe xterm" and then starts metacity & gnome-panel manually. Also gnomemeeting and gaim don't want to start.
[12:58] <Burgundavia> terrex, that is more a question of #ubuntu
[12:59] <tseng> Burgundavia: ok for the 3rd time now
[12:59] <doko> good question. the cleanest thing would be to build nss and nspr from it's own source, use these for other packages, build the shared libs from these packages. if firefox needs it's own copy, then it can ship it's own, but should use it's own names for a libnss and libnspr. so first thing: compare the libs (separate source, mozilla, firefox)
[12:59] <tseng> Burgundavia: beagle needs an evolution-sharp update
[12:59] <tseng> Burgundavia: we're working on getting it built
[12:59] <Burgundavia> tseng, yes, I realized yes, after I saw the build logs
[12:59] <tseng> k :)
[12:59] <Burgundavia> tseng, I close the bug with because the reporter was a moron
[12:59] <tseng> oh :/
[01:00] <tseng> Burgundavia: meh its alot to keep up with
[01:00] <jasoncohen> Any backports developers here?
[01:00] <tseng> jasoncohen: you can try Mez, he's pretty helpful
[01:00] <jasoncohen> yeah, i was actually looking for him
[01:00] <terrex> Burgundavia: ok, thanks all anyway.
[01:00] <jasoncohen> but he's not online
[01:01] <tseng> hm I guess not
[01:01] <tseng> seemed like i was just talking to him
[01:01] <jasoncohen> i was wondering when smeg and other packages will be added to the official backports repository
[01:01] <Burgundavia> jasoncohen, mez was in #ubuntu-motu as of an hour ago
[01:02] <jasoncohen> a /whois mez now shows him nowhere
[01:03] <Burgundavia> I don't see an exit message, so he must have silently dropped and not noticed it yet
[01:04] <infinity> jasoncohen : When we work out some small snags in the process.
[01:06] <jasoncohen> ok, so more packages will be added when those snags are figured out?
[01:08] <Amaranth> last seen 26 minutes ago
[01:38] <restrex> anyone can share the xbase-clients 6.8.2-35 package ? Thanks.
[01:53] <mrd`> xrdb b0rked my login I think. :/
[01:53] <\sh> re
[01:57] <mrd`> Hm... not xrdb... something else b0rked my gnome login.
[02:00] <mrd`> Friday, Hoary's going back on my laptop. :)
[02:01] <mrd`> (Hopefully, I'll have room for a chroot on my new desktop though.)
[02:02] <\sh> daniels: ping?
[02:02] <\sh> or someone who's working on Xorg stuff ,-)
[02:03] <\sh> on amd64...it looks like there is a problem with libXss
[02:03] <\sh> config.log output from imms:
[02:04] <\sh> configure:5680: g++ -o conftest -g -O2 -I/usr/include/taglib -shared -L/usr/X11R6/lib conftest.cc -lX11  -lpcre -lsqlite3 -lz  -ltag >&5
[02:04] <\sh> /usr/bin/ld: /tmp/ccMsAUO5.o: relocation R_X86_64_PC32 against `XFlush' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
[02:04] <\sh> /usr/bin/ld: final link failed: Bad value
[02:04] <\sh> and libX11...forgot to say
[02:35] <infinity> \sh : Ignore the config.log, it's just telling you to use -fPIC (which the package does, if you look at the build log)
[02:35] <infinity> \sh : The build failure stems from a (very obviously) missing -lX11 in the linker call.
[02:37] <\sh> infinity: you mean directly in the configure script?
[02:37] <\sh> nasty
[02:37] <infinity> No, I don't.
[02:37] <infinity> I said it's missing, I didn't say from where, precisely.
[02:38] <\sh> infinity: ok...i will check it later today...now I have only *censored* sources on my table
[02:48] <infinity> \sh : If you add 'CXXFLAGS="-fPIC"' before the ./configure call, configure's tests don't blow up, and it finds the libraries it wants. :)
[02:49] <infinity> \sh : So, there you go.  Merry Christmas.
[02:52] <infinity> \sh : (I'd recommend 'CXXFLAGS="-fPIC $(CFLAGS)" ./configure ...' to make use of the CFLAGS the maintainer set previously and then never used...)
[02:53] <infinity> \sh : Oh, and you might want libxss-dev, if you want "screensaver functionality" in the package, whatever that means.
[03:08] <bob2> ./configure CFLAGS=...
[03:08] <bob2> or so everyone tells me
[03:08] <HrdwrBoB> bob2: other way around
[03:11] <infinity> bob2 : Both work, for different reasons.
[03:11] <bob2> hm
[03:12] <infinity> bob2 : My example puts CFLAGS in the environment, which is a variable configure happens to cherry-pick out of said environment, I believe your example has configure interpreting 'FOO=BAR' pairs on the command line as "private environment settings", and it sets those for itself.  Which has the exact same effect.
[03:13] <mrd`> Is not being able to login to Gnome a known issue for Breezy at the moment (other than my whining earlier)?
[03:13] <infinity> bob2 : Something along those lines, anyway.  Either way, my example works fine to fix \sh's problem, and I don't much care if it makes an autotools maintainer or two cry (in fact, I'd prefer if it did..)
[03:13] <bob2> hahaha
[03:16] <infinity> bob2 : I'm not sure how much of the environment configure preserves, but I'd be willing to bed that for anything other than CC, CXX, CFLAGS, CXXFLAGS, and LDFLAGS, you're correct, having it in the shell's environment won't work, but having it in configure's command line will.
[03:16] <infinity> s/bed/bet/
[03:17] <infinity> (note that my previous comment about wanting to see autotools maintainers cry still stands, however)
[03:32] <OddAbe19> what exactly is Cairo? i was reading the site... is it just a speed/ image improvement for GTK and Icons?
[03:33] <jdub> OddAbe19: it's an API for vector-based drawing that can use different backends for rendering (such as GL and printing)
[03:34] <jdub> OddAbe19: because it's more abstract than using X, there are more opportunities for retargeting and optimisation
[03:56] <calc> er what happened to xutils in breezy?
[03:56] <calc> there are no binaries in it
[03:57] <Lathiat> calc: whats the error?
[03:57] <calc> something about sessreg missing
[03:57] <calc> xutils has no binaries in it at all including sessreg
[03:58] <calc> also ice complained afterwards about not being able to find transport: tcp
[04:00] <calc> er xbase-clients has no binaries either
[04:00] <calc> what the hell happened to xorg
[04:00] <calc> did someone forget to build the binaries when they uploaded it last time
[04:02] <calc> it went from being around 2MB deb to being a 60KB deb
[04:02] <schweeb> calc: xbase-clients isn't supposed to have any
[04:02] <schweeb> they were split out
[04:02] <schweeb> and added as deps
[04:02] <schweeb> check the deps for xbase-clients
[04:02] <calc> or not... :)
[04:03] <schweeb> which binary are you looking for?
[04:03] <calc> how many deps do you see on yours?
[04:03] <calc> i see only 10
[04:03] <calc> i don't have any easy way to cut paste but if you want i can manually type them
[04:03] <calc> startx for example is gone
[04:03] <calc> also sessreg
[04:04] <calc> maybe i have to manually install all the broken out parts due to someone forgetting to actually add them on dep line?
[04:04] <schweeb> xinit <--- starts
[04:04] <schweeb> *startx
[04:05] <schweeb> I think
[04:05] <calc> yea xbase-clients definitely doesn't depend on that
[04:05] <schweeb> I just use GDM anyways
[04:05] <calc> gdm won't even work apparently since sessreg isn't installed
[04:05] <schweeb> but I'm pinned on a way old version of xbase-clients anyways
[04:05] <calc> i tried starting x via startx and found out it was missing too
[04:06] <schweeb> sessreg isn't in xutils?
[04:07] <calc> no
[04:07] <calc> nothing is in xutils
[04:07] <calc> and xutils only depends on 3 things
[04:07] <calc> i think daniels forgot to update any of the depends lines
[04:07] <calc> daniels: wake up? :)
[04:08] <calc> also note that most xorg things on the mirrors are -43 but those two are -42 for some reason
[04:08] <calc> i've noticed the mirrors always being out of sync for some strange reason
[04:09] <calc> are the mirror scripts busted?
[04:12] <calc> i wonder if the missing binaries are why i can't switch out of X via ctrl-alt-F# as well
[04:13] <schweeb> calc: downgrade to -42
[04:13] <schweeb> worked for me
[04:13] <schweeb> just rebooted
[04:13] <schweeb> and no, the missing binaries are not it
[04:14] <calc> xbase-client and xutils -42 is the one with the missing binaries
[04:14] <calc> there is no -43 of them on the mirrors
[04:14] <schweeb> err
[04:14] <schweeb> I meant downgrade to -41
[04:14] <schweeb> and to switch VTs
[04:14] <schweeb> alt+sysrq r
[04:14] <calc> where are the old -41 packages?
[04:14] <schweeb> then alt+f1
[04:15] <schweeb> on my hard drive :p
[04:15] <schweeb> if you had -41 ever installed, should be in /var/cache/apt/archives
[04:16] <calc> heh xinit 1.0 has startx but then doesn't start gnome it just starts 3 xterms, heh
[04:16] <calc> schweeb: i don't have enough spare space to keep old debs around
[04:16] <schweeb> *shrug*
[04:16] <schweeb> my archives are only 529MB
[04:16] <schweeb> IMO you need to, if you're running breezy
[04:17] <schweeb> if you don't have half a gig free, you've got other problems
[04:17] <calc> i'll just reboot into xp
[04:25] <mrd`> schweeb: Not if you run 'apt-get clean' ever.
[04:25] <schweeb> mrd`: hrm?
[04:26] <mrd`> apt-get clean empties out /var/cache/apt/archives
[04:26] <schweeb> right
[04:26] <schweeb> which is silly, if you're running breezy
[04:26] <schweeb> a) the pkg manager applet does it for you on a weekly basis iirc
[04:27] <schweeb> b) you need old pkgs for when stuff breaks
[04:27] <mrd`> Yeah, yeah, this is the first time I ever tried running unstable.
[04:30] <mrd`> calc: Also, xbase-clients and xutils aren't out of date, they're just not built from the xorg source package anymore.
[04:33] <calc> so they don't technically exist anymore?
[04:33] <calc> switched to ubuntu late last year
[04:34] <mrd`> The binaries normally included in those packages are being split out into their own packages.
[04:35] <calc> mrd`: yea but for upgrade reasons there needs to be something that pulls them in somewhere
[04:35] <calc> or at least x-window-system-core needs to depend on them individually
[04:35] <mrd`> calc: I know, and I'm sure the Xorg maintainers know that too.
[04:37] <calc> x-window-system-core currently depends on both of those non-existant packages still
[04:39] <mrd`> I just know what daniels has said.
[06:24] <daniels> calc: xutils and xbase-clients are no longer built from xorg
[06:27] <Lathiat> daniels: sooooo... whens xutils gonna work? ;)
[06:28] <daniels> xutils isn't hugely interesting to me right now; there are more important things
[06:28] <daniels> anything in particular?
[06:29] <Lathiat> xmkmf
[06:29] <Lathiat> for this crack smoking package
[06:29] <Lathiat> that i want to fix, and needs it to build :)
[06:29] <daniels> that's a Hard Problem
[06:30] <Lathiat> next package
[06:31] <daniels> it'll probably happen next week
[06:31] <daniels> it's just behind 'stuff you need to make your desktop workable' and 'make xorg clean-upgradeable from hoary and clean-installable from scratch' on my TODO is all
[06:32] <calc> daniels: how are upgrades going to work with those two packages not really existing anymore?
[06:33] <Lathiat> daniels: yeh no problems
[06:33] <Lathiat> daniels: you know changing font dpi doesnt work so well right?
[06:33] <calc> perhaps the reason gnome broke on my system wasn't due to all the missing files from xbase-clients and xutils, but it was complaining about sessreg in the log
[06:33] <fabbione> morning
[06:34] <daniels> Lathiat: i can imagine that
[06:35] <daniels> calc: well, eventually xb-c and xutils will become metapackages
[06:35] <Lathiat> well, good thing i didnt get 1920xsomething @15.4" then :)
[06:35] <daniels> calc: but the seeds will also get updated
[06:37] <infinity> daniels : Oh, BTW, was /usr/lib/X11/locale supposed to disappear with the last libx11 upload, cause it very much didn't (just a bunch of spewed messages about the inability to remove non-empty directories, and a bunch of files now owned by no packages..)
[06:46] <daniels> infinity: no, not at all.  something about turning symlinks into directories being difficult ...
[06:46] <jasoncohen> does ubuntu have anything similar to Debian's package tracking system which allows you to get up to the minute info on a source package?
[06:46] <daniels> infinity: if all your programs don't bitch and say OMG NO LOCALES WTF when you start, then you have nothing to worry about
[06:47] <infinity> Symlinks to directories have to be handled kinda backwards from directories to symlinks.
[06:47] <jasoncohen> http://packages.qa.debian.org/ is what i was referring to
[06:47] <infinity> daniels : My programs are fine, since I only have breezy in chroots at the moment. :)
[06:47] <infinity> daniels : I'm not retarded.  I'm waiting until after feature freeze to start running breezy on my desktop.
[06:49] <daniels> heh
[06:52] <fabbione> daniels: did you upload libXcursor recently?
[06:55] <daniels> fabbione: er, I think to get rid of _XOPEN_SOURCE ... why?
[06:56] <fabbione> i think that it did reintroduced temporary the libXcursor.la thingy
[06:56] <fabbione> or one of the package hasn't been B-D versioned properly..
[06:56] <fabbione> i did build kdelibs way later than the other arches
[06:57] <fabbione> and i got libtool: link: `/usr/lib/libXcursor.la' is not a valid libtool archive
[06:57] <fabbione> checking now what is still bringing it
[06:57] <daniels> oh, I removed libXcursor.la
[06:57] <fabbione> probably something on sparc still knows about it
[06:58] <fabbione> that can only happen if there is a wrong versione B-D or uncatched
[06:58] <infinity> Install kdelibs' build-deps, and rgrep Xcursor.la /usr/lib
[06:58] <fabbione> infinity: that's what i am already doing :)
[06:59] <fabbione> i think it's going to take me less time to rebootstrap breezy than to fix it
[06:59] <infinity> (Note that tightly versioned build-deps, while handy for the buildds RIGHT NOW, won't make a likc of difference for bootstrappability, because the problem can't "come back" once all the old sources are gone)
[06:59] <infinity> s/likc/lick/
[07:00] <fabbione> infinity: yes. given that you build everything in the right order and everything is B-D properly
[07:00] <fabbione> but if there are leftovers it makes a difference
[07:00] <infinity> You can definitely build everything in the right order now, afaict.
[07:00] <fabbione> infinity: not gnome..
[07:01] <fabbione> because gnome apps didn't get versioned B-D love
[07:01] <fabbione> only the libs
[07:01] <infinity> It's just building against a slightly older breezy (say, a few weeks) that might not be perfect.  I'm not sure if that's worth caring about, but if you find things that should have tighteneed build-deps, let me know.
[07:01] <fabbione> and that's not even completely true
[07:01] <fabbione> infinity: gtk+2.0 was supposed to have B-D to avoid old binpackges with _XOPEN
[07:01] <fabbione> fact is that it did build on sparc and still had XOPEN
[07:02] <infinity> Probably because one or two X libs got missed, those I fixed later.
[07:02] <fabbione> libqtmcop.la:dependency_libs=' -L/usr/share/qt3/lib -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libmcop.la /usr/lib/libgmodule-2.0.la /usr/lib/libgthread-2.0.la /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.la /usr/lib/libqt-mt.la -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lXcursor -lXft -lfreetype -laudio -lXt -lXi -lXrandr /usr/lib/libXcursor.la -lXfixes -lXinerama /usr/lib/libXft.la -lXrender /usr/lib/libfreetype.la -lfontconfig -ldl -lpng -lz -lXext -lX11 -lSM -lICE -lpthread'
[07:02] <infinity> I didn't bother reuploading gtk+, cause it was fine on the release arches.
[07:03] <fabbione> so it's libarts carrying it
[07:04] <infinity> Did Riddell not bother to version his build-deps when he reuploaded arts to fix that? :/
[07:06] <fabbione> apparently no
[07:06] <fabbione> infinity: do you want to do that or shoud i just reupload?
[07:06] <fabbione> the latter will work now...
[07:06] <fabbione> but still
[07:07] <infinity> I'm more concerned about scorched earth / autotest, than I am about "can we build against a hypothetical breezy of 3 weeks ago?" test, so if we pass the former, cool.  If we don't, then we can tighten things to make sure we do.
[07:07] <infinity> I don't much care about the latter.
[07:08] <fabbione> infinity: this stuff is invisible on the buildds
[07:08] <fabbione> because they are just too fast
[07:08] <fabbione> (not that's bad...)
[07:09] <fabbione> infinity: didn't you notice that people don't even prebuild the pkgs for testing?
[07:09] <fabbione> they just keep uploading until it does build?
[07:09] <fabbione> that
[07:09] <fabbione> that
[07:09] <fabbione> that's just not the way it should be...
[07:10] <infinity> fabbione : Right, but the question is "can the problem come back if we build from scratch?" (and the answer is "no").  We could spend months trying to support "building every package against every possible combination of build-deps that used to be in breezy but aren't anymore".
[07:10] <infinity> And yes, I've noticed that a lot of uploaders don't prebuild. :/
[07:10] <fabbione> infinity: yes, i understand and agree
[07:10] <infinity> Not much I can do about that, except maybe not-for-us someone's pet package until they listen to reason.
[07:10] <fabbione> but that makes normal building a pain
[07:11] <fabbione> infinity: i am thinking about micro-ubuntu and stuff like that
[07:11] <fabbione> if we start building in the wrong order on old machines
[07:11] <fabbione> bam.. game is finished even before starting it
[07:11] <fabbione> because we might not be in the condition to efford (time wise) a rebuild
[07:17] <infinity> changelogs, too.
[07:18] <crimsun> infinity: sorry, I'm guilty
[07:42] <dholbach> hey
[07:42] <dholbach> how's the review day coming on? :)
[07:42] <ajmitch> hi dholbach 
[07:43] <dholbach> ajmitch: hey andrew :)
[07:49] <crimsun> hey daniel :)
[07:50] <dholbach> hey daniel! how's it going?
[07:51] <crimsun> not bad, did some merging yesterday and today. How are things with you?
[07:51] <dholbach> i'm fine... thanks - just giving my thesis a break for the review day :)
[07:51] <crimsun> nice break :)
[07:52] <dholbach> yeah... the lists are overfull :)
[07:52] <crimsun> indeed
[08:04] <dholbach> morning JaneW :)
[08:07] <doko> elmo: please sync discover (v2, universe) from unstable, the ubuntu patch isn't needed anymore (ack from daniels)
[08:08] <dholbach> morning doko
[08:09] <doko> morning all (and dholbach ;)
[08:13] <dholbach> jsgotangco: morning jerome :)
[08:13] <jsgotangco> dholbach: hi! how have you been doing?
[08:14] <dholbach> jsgotangco: nicely, thank you - today is review day, so i take a small break from thesis writing :)
[08:14] <dholbach> how are you?
[08:17] <jsgotangco> dholbach: well don't puke, but i've been busy learning rails..hehehe..other than that, we have a meeting later at 14utc
[08:18] <dholbach> why should i puke? :)
[08:20] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:20] <jsgotangco> dholbach: how is school?
[08:24] <dholbach> jsgotangco: i'll run to university later to see, how my last exam went (maybe they have the grade lists already), and now there are 3 weeks left for writing/hacking the rest of my thesis - i'm quite confident, although it will mean some additional night sessions :)
[08:31] <pitti> Good morning, world!!!
[08:31] <fabbione> hey pitti
[08:32] <pitti> argh, ENETWORK, brb
[08:33] <bob2> hm, I hope I didn't give pitti my bad network karma
[08:36] <dholbach> hey pitti! :)
[08:36] <pitti> Hi dholbach, how's your diploma?
[08:36] <dholbach> bob2: mvo suffered yesterday as well
[08:36] <pitti> Moin doko
[08:37] <dholbach> pitti: in a small break for review day, but going on nicely :)
[08:38] <pitti> good
[08:38] <dholbach> pitti: how are you?
[08:38] <dholbach> Unfrgiven: morning ankur - long time no see!
[08:39] <pitti> dholbach: fine, after a nice evening with my gf yesterday; now ffox has me back :-)
[08:39] <pitti> dholbach: oh, it's not so bad any more, I only have to update the locale packs now; ffox itself works. YAY :-)
[08:40] <dholbach> woohoo!
[08:40] <pitti> JaneW: Just read Jaime's reply, that's reassuring. :-)
[08:41] <Treenaks> pitti: except for the not-yet-discovered bug in the locale system ;)
[08:42] <pitti> yay, Debian uploads are back
[08:46] <pitti> ogra: cool, David seems interested in the lsb patch; is the namespace change any problem for you?
[08:51] <tepsipakki> seb128: gnome-screensaver does not allow locking the screen, because gnome-screensaver-dialog needs suid-root
[08:51] <tepsipakki> maybe there is a plan to get past that?
[08:56] <dholbach> morning mvo :)
[08:59] <pitti> hi mvo
[09:00] <mvo> morning dholbach, morning pitti 
[09:00] <mvo> pitti: do your X umlauts work again? 
[09:01] <dholbach> pitti: i installed xkbdutils, xkeyboard-config and xinit and i was fine again :)
[09:02] <pitti> mvo: no, broken as usual
[09:02] <pitti> dholbach: already tried that, no luck
[09:03] <dholbach> pitti: what helped me was going through the list of packages with maintainer "daniel stone" in synaptic - maybe you find something else *fingers crossed*
[09:05] <daniels> pitti: have you installed xkeyboard-config with --force-overwrite?
[09:05] <pitti> no
[09:06] <daniels> pitti: does setxkbmap -rules xorg -layout 'de(nodeadkeys)' -model pc105, help?
[09:06] <daniels> pitti: right.  xlibs trashed some of xk-c's conffiles, so reinstall the most recent version with --force-overwrite.
[09:07] <pitti> I upgraded to xk-c 0.5-3
[09:08] <pitti> $ setxkbmap -rules xorg -layout 'de(nodeadkeys)' -model pc105
[09:08] <pitti> Couldn't interpret _XKB_RULES_NAMES property
[09:08] <pitti> Use defaults: rules - 'xorg' model - 'pc101' layout - 'us'
[09:09] <pitti> daniels: it even lies; z and y are German, things like . : , ; too
[09:09] <pitti> daniels: but I can't get an at, pipe, backslash, and umlauts
[09:10] <daniels> try setxkbmap -rules xorg -model pc104 -layout de
[09:10] <daniels> er, pc105
[09:10] <daniels> not pc104
[09:11] <pitti> oh, now it works
[09:11] <pitti> even with your first command
[09:11] <pitti> I reinstalled xk-c again
[09:11] <pitti> thanks, mate
[09:13] <daniels> pitti: no worries
[09:13] <daniels> pitti: now you can use all those crazy extra letters :)
[09:14] <daniels> like  and 
[09:15] <dholbach> it took me a minute to find a \ somewhere to write \sh's nick yesterday :)
[09:15] <dholbach> (before i managed to fix X for me again. :)
[09:16] <mvo> (backslash)sh :P
[09:16] <dholbach> exactly :)
[09:17] <daniels> of course, the real fix there is for sh to make his nick sensible ...
[09:18] <dholbach> mvo: ^^ wasn't that your exact words? :)
[09:25] <pitti> daniels: not having |, \, and @ hurted me much more ...
[09:26] <Treenaks> pitti: @ = shift+2 :)
[09:26] <Treenaks> pitti: on US
[09:26] <pitti> Treenaks: that's " on my keyboard
[09:27] <Treenaks> pitti: like on most European local kbs
[09:27] <Treenaks> pitti: is the "@" key left of "1" or is that a "logical not" key?
[09:28] <daniels> @ is altgr+q on a german keyboard
[09:28] <Treenaks> daniels: *eek*
[09:45] <fabbione> maswan: ping?
[09:59] <dholbach> see you later - HAPPY REVIEW DAY!
[10:04] <sivang> morning all
[10:06] <pitti> Good morning Sivan
[10:08] <sivang> pitti: Hey Martin, still very secure ? :)
[10:08] <pitti> it gets better :-)
[10:10] <sivang> daniels: morning, how are you and Xorg today? :)
[10:11] <sivang> pitti: do you know if there is a way to split and already made patch that touches 2 files , into 2 seperate patches ?
[10:11] <sivang> s/and/an/
[10:12] <pitti> sivang: vi :-)
[10:12] <pitti> sivang: just split them in an editor, it's pretty obvious
[10:12] <sivang> pitti: ok, what should I look out from in doing this?
[10:12] <pitti> look at the patch, it's obvious
[10:12] <sivang> pitti: ok, thanks
[10:15] <jani> sivang, for more complicated cases there's filetrdiff from patchutils
[10:16] <jani> filterdiff
[10:18] <sivang> jani: ok, I will look into it if I fail taking the obvious approach :)
[10:39] <dholbach> re
[10:39] <fabbione> Kamion: i just uploaded kernel+linux-meta with ABI change...
[10:39] <fabbione> Kamion: do you want me to upload d-i too?
[10:41] <seb128> hi dholbach
[10:41] <dholbach> hey seb128 :)
[10:42] <fabbione> hey seb128 
[10:42] <fabbione> seb128: i did a dummy upload of gtk+2.0 to get rid of the XOPEN
[10:42] <fabbione> no code changes or nothing
[10:43] <fabbione> only an extra entry in debian/changelog
[10:43] <seb128> you did an upload you are the maintainer now
[10:43] <seb128> please update the gtk 2.7.4 now :)
[10:43] <seb128> wasn't a binary upload good for that?
[10:44] <fabbione> seb128: i prefer to avoid binNMU where possible
[10:44] <fabbione> specially because ubuntu2 was around in the archives
[10:44] <seb128> k
[10:44] <seb128> I'll do an upload of the new version this morning
[10:45] <seb128> bah, the autobuilders are fast and users can use their bandwidth a bit :p
[10:46] <fabbione> seb128: it's already all over :)
[10:46] <seb128> doko: PING
[10:46] <sto> Kamion: have you implemented something to have languagepacks on the ubuntu debian-installer?
[10:47] <mvo> hello seb128 
[10:47] <seb128> hi mvo
[10:47] <sto> Kamion: I have a proposal for debian but I want to know if there are other proposals/implementations
[10:51] <dholbach> seb128: could you add a KILL button to evolution? "exit" doesn't seem to be enough these days ;)
[10:52] <maswan> fabbione: pong
[10:53] <fabbione> maswan: i think it's time to change kernel to buttercup...
[10:53] <fabbione> it died again :(
[10:53] <fabbione> maswan: i will have a kernel in an hour or so.. it's building right now
[10:53] <\sh> hmmm...firefox + flash == crash ,-)
[10:54] <seb128> dholbach: evolution --force-shutdown
[10:54] <dholbach> seb128: ah i see, thanks :)
[10:57] <pitti> \sh: you have main upload rights now, go ahead and fix it :-)
[10:58] <maswan> fabbione: neat
[10:58] <fabbione> maswan: i will ping you back as soon as i am ready to install it
[10:58] <maswan> fabbione: ACK
[10:59] <fabbione> maswan: leave buttercup down for now..
[10:59] <fabbione> it's more time it takes to stop the buildd than for me to finish the kenrel :)
[11:06] <ogra> pitti, namespace change ? thats a nobrainer :)
[11:06] <ogra> morning
[11:06] <pitti> right
[11:06] <pitti> Hi ogra
[11:08] <ogra> pitti, did someone talk to you about dbus 0.35 ? 
[11:09] <pitti> ENOTIME
[11:09] <ogra> pitti, ok
[11:09] <pitti> daniels: do you happen to know about dbus 0.35?
[11:10] <ogra> pitti, the consensus was that we want it if there are no strong objections from your side... seb128 needs it for the new totem for example
[11:10] <pitti> ogra: as long as it doesn't break the API, I'm fine for it
[11:11] <pitti> ogra: if it merely breaks ABI (which it shouldn't either) then recompiling apps would be fine, too
[11:11] <ogra> pitti, it breaks the python api slightly it seems.... so our hal deviace manager would spill errors... 
[11:11] <pitti> ogra: is it fixed upstream?
[11:11] <ogra> with 0.5.3
[11:11] <pitti> ogra: I wouldn't mind upgrading to 0.5.3, it has lots of bug fixes anyway
[11:11] <ogra> which is not in debian 
[11:12] <ogra> ok
[11:12] <pitti> ogra: sjoerd is on vac, but it's not a biggie to upgrade the Ubuntu versoin
[11:12] <ogra> pitti, mdz already agreed, but we wanted to hear you
[11:12] <pitti> oh, cool
[11:12] <pitti> ok, let's get the new crack :-)
[11:12] <ogra> thats awesome... so hughsie can make g-p-m eady for us :)
[11:13] <ogra> ready even
[11:29] <Kamion> fabbione: it's ok, I'll do it in a moment
[11:29] <Diziet> Morning people.
[11:29] <Kamion> sto: no, I really don't want to go anywhere near that; the installer is complex enough without introducing complexity which in my view is unnecessary
[11:30] <ogra> hey Diziet 
[11:30] <pitti> Hi Diziet 
[11:30] <Kamion> sto: I know Petter posted a udpkg (?) patch recently to make tricks like that a little easier
[11:34] <sto> Kamion: well I need to support a non standard locale, so I have to do it or recompile everything
[11:35] <Kamion> our approach has been to get the translations into the mainline instead, as they end up better maintained that way anyway
[11:35] <Kamion> also you probably won't be able to use anything like language packs for the first half a dozen screens or so no matter what you do
[11:35] <Kamion> well, not without awful initrd hacking
[11:36] <sto> Kamion: why not?
[11:36] <sto> I'm doing it
[11:36] <Kamion> huh, ok
[11:36] <Kamion> again, don't want to touch that if I can possibly help it :)
[11:36] <sto> I simply did a wrapper around debconf-loadtemplate
[11:37] <Mez> elmo: ping
[11:37] <Kamion> but you clearly had to hack the initrd to get the extra templates in there; they can't just have been loaded with udpkg
[11:37] <Kamion> because udpkg isn't called until half a dozen or so screens in
[11:38] <Kamion> infinity: yo, you broke the seeds archive
[11:38] <sto> Yes, I've put the templates on an udeb package that is installed on the initrd
[11:38] <fabbione> Kamion: perfect...
[11:38] <fabbione> Kamion: the kernel is still building on the buildd...
[11:39] <Kamion> infinity: chmod -R g+w /home/warthogs/archives/ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/seeds/seeds--breezy/seeds--breezy--0/patch-79/++revision-lock on chinstrap, please
[11:39] <Kamion> infinity: and put 'umask 002' in ~/.bashrc somewhere where it will be used by noninteractive shells
[11:39] <sto> But udpkg is called before excuting the first screen
[11:39] <Kamion> no it isn't - debconf-loadtemplate is
[11:40] <Kamion> to load the initial set of templates
[11:40] <sto> Oh, well, I've changed debconf-loadtemplate
[11:40] <sto> I thought it was called by udpkg
[11:41] <sto> as it worked I have not looked too much into it
[11:45] <fabbione> what was the the C function opposite to atoi?
[11:45] <fabbione> to convert an integer to a string?
[11:47] <fabbione> i guess i can just use sprintf :)
[11:48] <ogra> :)
[11:48] <Treenaks> fabbione: you could link in a python interpreter to do it for you
[11:50] <fabbione> rhhrhr
[11:50] <fabbione> ehhe
[11:51] <Kamion> sto: rootskel calls it directly
[11:51] <davyd> is it a known issue that I can't start gnome-session
[11:51] <davyd> or have I broken something?
[11:56] <seb128> davyd: update to 0ubuntu3
[11:56] <davyd> how long till that is in the tree?
[11:56] <seb128> should already be
[11:57] <davyd> ok
[11:57] <seb128> davyd: you can also edit /usr/share/gnome/default.session and fix the numbers
[11:57] <davyd> well, let me get updated versions of things
[11:57] <seb128> davyd: you need to update the number of the id=default<n> lines
[11:58] <seb128> davyd: gnome-smproxy has been dropped and I've screwed when changing the entries numbers ... it's fixed with 0ubuntu
[11:58] <seb128> 0ubuntu3
[11:58] <davyd> ok, got the new version
[11:58] <seb128> cool
[12:00] <davyd> let's see what else broke
[12:07] <davyd> does -panel also have known issues?
[12:14] <seb128> davyd: nop, why? what does it do?
[12:15] <davyd> it would appear to be hanging
[12:18] <Kamion> elmo: please sync libdebian-installer from Debian incoming (approved by mdz)
[12:20] <davyd> hmm, now it works
[12:20] <Kamion> icaro: I hope that isn't a script
[12:21] <icaro> Kamion, i'm doing a script to control amarok from xchat :D
[12:21] <icaro> i'm just trying it
[12:21] <Kamion> icaro: please disable it for this channel
[12:22] <icaro> ok...
[12:31] <Diziet> Why oh why oh why oh why does Gnome need the network to be working for it not to wedge when you log in ?
[12:31] <davyd> Diziet: it doesn't
[12:31] <davyd> you may just have been bitten by the bug I was
[12:31] <davyd> upgrade gnome-session to ubuntu3
[12:32] <Diziet> I'm using the colony 2 CD install and haven't upgraded anything yet.
[12:33] <Lathiat> Diziet: you however need a loopback interface
[12:33] <davyd> that is true
[12:33] <Lathiat> Diziet: and if you dont have a loopback interface your system is broken :)
[12:33] <davyd> and localhost should be in your /etc/hosts
[12:33] <davyd> that may break session handling
[12:33] <Diziet> In fact it turns out that I _do_ have a working network.  There must be some other reason it's wedged.
[12:33] <davyd> Diziet: have you checked what version of gnome-session you're running?
[12:34] <Kamion> colony 2 was 2.11.1-0ubuntu1
[12:34] <Diziet> davyd: ... ah, Kamion has told you.
[12:34] <Lathiat> It's quite possible that CD was broken
[12:34] <Kamion> Lathiat: in what sense? it worked fine in my tests
[12:35] <Kamion> or I wouldn't have released it
[12:35] <Lathiat> Kamion: yeh but something could be upsetting it
[12:52] <hughsie> ogra: I'll repeat the question: do you not sleep? :-)
[12:52] <ogra> hehe
[12:52] <hughsie> ogra:pitti been about
[12:52] <hughsie> ?
[12:53] <ogra> i have to fix my lsb patch for david ;)
[12:53] <hughsie> ogra: i saw your message
[12:53] <ogra> hughsie, yes... and it seems we'll also have 0.5.3 :)
[12:53] <hughsie> ogra: better upstream than patched tho
[12:53] <hughsie> 0.5.3, yay!
[12:53] <ogra> yep
[12:53] <hughsie> okay, let me glib-fy g-p-m
[12:54] <ogra> yeah :)
[12:54] <hughsie> first on my hitlist, libhal has to go
[12:54] <Diziet> Hrmf.  We don't have resolvconf in Breezy it seems.
[12:54] <jdthood> Diziet: I'm glad you brought that up.
[12:54] <jdthood> thom tells me that you are now taking care of network-manager.
[12:55] <jdthood> I'd like to get n-m playing nicely with resolvconf
[12:55] <Diziet> Um!  I'm only here on Thursdays, to a first approximation.  So perhaps me being in the `middle' so to speak is not ideal ...
[12:55] <Diziet> n-m> Quite so.
[12:55] <Diziet> Are we going to have resolvconf then ?
[12:56] <jdthood> I don't know.  I am just the author/debian maintainer
[12:56] <jdthood> Currently n-m Depends on resolvconf, so if n-m is going to be in Breezy then so should resolvconf, obviously
[12:57] <Diziet> I missed the bit in the n-m source code where it drives resolvconf.
[12:57] <jdthood> It doesn't, SFAIK
[12:58] <Lathiat> i thought it does
[12:58] <Diziet> So in what sense does it depend on it ?
[12:58] <Lathiat> but like
[12:58] <Lathiat> it was using bind9
[12:58] <jdthood> The package Depends on resolvconf
[12:58] <Lathiat> and writing out a config for it
[12:58] <Lathiat> so i dont really see the use for resolvconf in that situation
[12:58] <Diziet> jdt: Yes, but why ?
[12:58] <Diziet> lath: Quite so.
[12:58] <Lathiat> other than that using bind9 like that is crack
[12:58] <Diziet> Um, yes, we should get rid of bind9.  We're going to use dnsmasq instead.
[12:58] <Lathiat> ok so even still
[12:59] <Lathiat> using dnsmasq, resolvconf has no purpose
[12:59] <Diziet> If dnsmasq turns out to be too broken we can probably fix something up quickly that'll be better than nothing.
[12:59] <jdthood> dnsmasq works very well
[12:59] <Diziet> lath: No, it has the purpose that the patch we have to make to n-m isn't silly.
[12:59] <Diziet> jdt: Oh, good :-).
[12:59] <jdthood> And it already works with resolvconf
[12:59] <Diziet> If we make n-m drive resolvconf then all `just works' ha ha.
[01:00] <jdthood> s/ha ha//
[01:00] <Lathiat> Diziet: it just works with bind9/dnsmasq
[01:00] <Diziet> There's code to drive dnsmasq in there ?  Did I miss that ?
[01:00] <Lathiat> for bind9
[01:00] <Lathiat> dnsmasq isnt done yet afaict
[01:00] <Diziet> Yes, I saw the code to drive bind9.  That's just barmy.
[01:00] <jdthood> dnsmasq has been around a long time.  It's stable.
[01:01] <jdthood> And resolvconf already drives it.
[01:01] <jdthood> So all n-m has to do is call resolvconf to tell it the nameserver addresses obtained via DHCP.
[01:01] <jdthood> ... by n-m's private DHCP client.
[01:01] <Diziet> The right answer is for n-m to speak to resolvconf.  Then (a) our stuff just works nicely and (b) people who aren't using dnsmasq can do something else 'cos resolvconf gives a sensible interface.
[01:01] <Diziet> jdt: Right.
[01:02] <jdthood> This also provides for graceful starting and stopping of n-m.
[01:02] <Lathiat> except that that doesnt actually work
[01:03] <jdthood> Lathiat: what doesn't work?
[01:03] <Lathiat> jdthood: if you stop n-m, starting it again results in it being useless
[01:03] <Diziet> Starting and stopping of n-m ?  Why would it want to start and stop ?
[01:03] <jdthood> Oh.
[01:03] <Lathiat> Diziet: because if i want to do my own thing with the interfaces
[01:03] <Lathiat> if i dont stop n-m, it eats them
[01:03] <Diziet> Oh, I see.  Yes, that makes sense.
[01:04] <Diziet> So you're saying that when you start it again it doesn't work for some reason.
[01:04] <Lathiat> right
[01:04] <Lathiat> at least a few weeks ago
[01:04] <jdthood> Well, it is beta software.
[01:04] <jdthood> Not even.
[01:05] <jdthood> It's improving quickly, though.
[01:05] <Lathiat> elmo, infinity: can i get lathiat@bur.st whitelisted for changes?
[01:06] <Diziet> So who's doing the resolvconf package for Breezy ? :-)
[01:06] <ogra> Lathiat, see the Uploads wikipage... send a mail
[01:06] <Lathiat> ogra: oh ok
[01:09] <Kamion> resolvconf hasn't been branched for Ubuntu yet; we can keep on syncing jdthood's uploads from Debian if that makes sense
[01:09] <Kamion> or otherwise cherry-pick patches
[01:09] <Diziet> How does this relate to dbus ?
[01:11] <Diziet> k: `keep on syncing'> Does that mean it's there already ?  /me looks.
[01:11] <Kamion> Diziet: in universe, yes
[01:11] <Kamion> resolvconf |       1.29 | breezy/universe | source, all
[01:12] <Kamion> it'd have to be promoted to main for use with n-m, but that's relatively straightforward
[01:12] <Diziet> Oooooh!  The light dawns!   universe isn't in the default sources.list !
[01:12] <Kamion> correct
[01:12] <Diziet> No wonder I was having so much trouble.
[01:12] <Lathiat> daniels: ping
[01:13] <Kamion> deliberately so - it's formally unsupported (although much less so now than it used to be)
[01:13] <dholbach> brb
[01:17] <jdthood> You needn't fear big changes in resolvconf from now on.
[01:27] <madduck> jdthood: come on! WINS integration!
[01:27] <madduck> jdthood: /etc/hosts generation!
[01:52] <Burgundavia> pitti, you poor man http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13041
[01:56] <pitti> Burgundavia: well, I needed to have the new version in the archive anyway to rebuild against them
[01:57] <seb128> k, guys, somebody need me what is to do with firefox?
[01:57] <seb128> or I just revert doko's .pc changes
[01:57] <pitti> seb128: for warty I guess we just need to rebuild it
[01:57] <seb128> it breaks GNOME builds, and I'm too busy to start repacking libnss, firefox or whatever
[01:58] <seb128> doko: PING
[02:01] <seb128> pitti: opinion on this?
[02:02] <pitti> seb128: about epi build-deps? design-wise, b-dep'ing on and using libnspr4-dev is the right thing
[02:03] <pitti> seb128: but if that breaks, then just leave it as it is for now
[02:03] <seb128> it's b0rked now
[02:03] <seb128> doko has dropped firefox .pc files
[02:03] <pitti> "now" -> before that
[02:03] <seb128> and epiphany, totem, devhelp, yelp etc look for that
[02:03] <seb128> so I just put the .pc files back?
[02:04] <pitti> can we patch mozilla's libnspr4 lib somehow to make it work?
[02:04] <pitti> like, copy ffox' one
[02:04] <seb128> I've no clue, and I've way too many work already
[02:04] <pitti> we all have, I guess
[02:04] <seb128> yeah, so not time to break firefox
[02:04] <seb128> if nobody is going to fix it
[02:04] <pitti> seb128: I'd revert the change until libnspr4-dev is fixed to work with epy & co
[02:04] <seb128> and we need to have GNOME building
[02:04] <seb128> k, thanks
[02:05] <pitti> but we should keep it in mind, doko wrote the Debian guys IIRC
[02:05] <seb128> the reply from the Debian maintainer is:
[02:05] <seb128> "There also may be subtle bugs
[02:05] <seb128>         exposed by using combinations of versions of nss, nspr + {firefox, mozilla,
[02:05] <seb128>         thunderbird} that aren't as well tested. I don't know the development
[02:05] <seb128>         well enough to say whether that is likely to be a problem. "
[02:06] <pitti> I read that, yes
[02:06] <seb128> that's not time to do this changes if people are to busy to work ont his imho
[02:06] <seb128> grumpf
[02:06] <seb128> "that's not the time to do these changes if people are too busy to work on this imho"
[02:13] <fabbione> maswan: i have the kernel...
[02:13] <fabbione> maswan: anytime you want.. i am ready
[02:14] <maswan> fabbione: ACK
[02:14] <fabbione> maswan: ROCKANDROLL!
[02:15] <fabbione> elmo: sparc wins again over ppc :)
[02:15] <chmj> there is a cheat involved !
[02:16] <sivang> fabbione: is does? :)
[02:16] <maswan> fabbione: booting it now, I hope. :)
[02:18] <fabbione> maswan: ok :)
[02:19] <maswan> fabbione: Starting OpenBSD Secure Shell server: sshd.
[02:20] <maswan> fabbione: we can try enabling the watchdog too
[02:20] <fabbione> maswan: i am already copying the kernel there..
[02:20] <maswan> fabbione: ack. can fix it when we reboot
[02:21] <fabbione> maswan: i think it's a good idea to check 2 things in the OBP
[02:21] <maswan> fabbione: the more changes you do at once, the larger the chance of total success. right?
[02:21] <fabbione> maswan: clearly :)
[02:21] <fabbione> maswan: there are 2 options.. one is the watchdog.. the other is the need to have a constant console connected to the serial port
[02:21] <fabbione> all these hangs might be caused by that option turned on
[02:22] <maswan> well, we always have a serial console on it
[02:22] <fabbione> and your console server not keeping power on the ports when not in use
[02:22] <fabbione> yeah. so did i.. but it was still hanging when i was reboot my machine
[02:22] <fabbione> now it doesn't anymore :)
[02:22] <fabbione> the only issue is that i don't remember the names of these options
[02:22] <fabbione> so we need to look at them
[02:23] <maswan> btw, the rsc sucks. 'Hostname:       "buttercu"'
[02:23] <fabbione> ehhehe
[02:23] <maswan> 8 chars ought to be enough for everybody?
[02:23] <fabbione> maswan: i am checking security updates too...
[02:23] <maswan> fabbione: great
[02:26] <fabbione> maswan: keep an eye on the console.. rebooting now...
[02:26] <fabbione> GO BUTTERCUP!
[02:26] <maswan> ok.
[02:27] <maswan> waiting for it to reset now
[02:28] <fabbione> maswan: is it still resetting?
[02:29] <maswan> hacking now
[02:30] <maswan> now booting
[02:30] <maswan> not hardware with a proper watchdog, it seems
[02:30] <fabbione> ahh ok
[02:30] <fabbione> i forgot you had to play with OBP.. sorry
[02:31] <maswan> booting now
[02:31] <maswan> what are the numbers?
[02:31] <maswan> [   12.800158]  TCP bind hash table entries: 32768 (order: 6, 524288 bytes)
[02:31] <maswan> [   12.881072]  TCP: Hash tables configured (established 32768 bind 32768)
[02:31] <maswan> I've never seen that before..
[02:31] <fabbione> [   12.881072]  <- ?
[02:31] <maswan> yeah
[02:31] <fabbione> timestamped printk
[02:31] <maswan> ok
[02:31] <maswan> wrapping every 16 seconds, or something like that?
[02:31] <fabbione> hmm no
[02:32] <fabbione> it's an abs value from boot time
[02:32] <maswan> fabbione: Starting OpenBSD Secure Shell server: sshd.
[02:32] <maswan> well, it goes up to ~15 then restarts from 0..
[02:32] <fabbione> Linux buttercup 2.6.12-5-sparc64-smp #1 SMP Thu Jul 28 10:10:55 UTC 2005 sparc64 GNU/Linux
[02:32] <fabbione> maswan: probably it's the -smp effect..
[02:32] <fabbione> i dunno if the timestamp is xcpu or global
[02:32] <maswan> it wrapped more than once
[02:33] <maswan> [   15.634369]  EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode.
[02:33] <maswan> [    0.071270]  Adding 490480k swap on /dev/sda6.  Priority:-1 extents:1
[02:33] <maswan> [   14.572056]  scsi0 : sym-2.2.0
[02:33] <maswan> [    0.350900]    Vendor: SEAGATE   Model: ST39102LCSUN9.0G  Rev: 0828
[02:33] <fabbione> yes i am looking..
[02:33] <fabbione> i dunno..
[02:33] <fabbione> it might be buggy on SMP
[02:33] <maswan> oh, well. not particularly important. :)
[02:33] <fabbione> nope...
[02:35] <fabbione> maswan: i am glad to say you are the first guy running a breezy smp sparc kernel in the world afaik :P
[02:35] <maswan> fabbione: whee! :)
[02:36] <fabbione> hey it also means that i don't suck so much as i tought with the kernel :)
[02:36] <maswan> :)
[02:36] <maswan> if you want to install breezy on it properly, we can find another 9giger or two ;)
[02:37] <fabbione> maswan: i am not even sure it can be bootstrapped right now
[02:37] <fabbione> we have half of gnome FTBFS due to a binutils bug
[02:38] <fabbione> i am pretty sure we can bootstrap server...
[02:38] <fabbione> we will switch once breezy is out :)
[02:41] <maswan> fabbione: ah
[02:41] <maswan> fabbione: :)
[02:42] <fabbione> maswan: thanks!
[02:42] <fabbione> cya later
[02:43] <pitti> seb128: that referred to the statement right before yours: <Burgundavia> pitti, you poor man http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13041
[02:44] <Keybuk> ...Microsoft have added a "Search" feature to the Start Menu...
[02:44] <Burgundavia> I also saw one with a scroll bar in it
[02:44] <pitti> Keybuk: I saw the menus of some people I know, it badly needs it...
[02:49] <Burgundavia> the sad part is that you don't really need to do much to get it to that state
[02:56] <Mez> elmo: ping
[03:06] <slomo> hmm... who has broken firefox-dev, i.e. the firefox-gtkmozembed.pc file? it needs firefox-nspr but can't find it...
[03:08] <slomo> ah ok, nevermind... seems to be fixed with the firefox version uploaded a few seconds ago
[03:17] <mjg59_> Hm. Can anyone remember the wiki page with hotkey keycodes on?
[03:17] <Burgundavia> mjg59_, yes, just a sec
[03:17] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopKeycodes
[03:18] <Burgundavia> mjg59_, is there any way of determining those at install time, or are we going to need to keep a giant database?
[03:18] <mjg59_> Burgundavia: Thanks!
[03:19] <mjg59_> It's going to need static tables, but we can work out which to use based on DMI information (in most cases)
[03:19] <sivang> fabbione: I'm going to be the second ppc64 hopefully soon :)
[03:20] <fabbione> sivang: too many.. send one this direction
[03:21] <fabbione> ;)
[03:22] <hughsie> ogra: got a minute?
[03:22] <ogra> hughsie, sure
[03:22] <hughsie> ogra: hi, what do you know about HAL and PropertyModified
[03:23] <hughsie> I'm spotting a problem with J5's new bindings
[03:24] <ogra> hmm, thats for polling, right ?
[03:24] <hughsie> ogra: not polling, events of device change.
[03:24] <hughsie> oops
[03:29] <sivang> fabbione: I mean, pSeries :)
[03:34] <Diziet> network-manager appears not to have a config file.  I wanted to add an option to it.  I suppose it'll have to be a compile-time switch.  Urgh!
[03:34] <Diziet> Do Gnome people not believe in config files ?
[03:35] <jdthood> They believe in gconf
[03:36] <sivang> Diziet: that would be the event driven configuration database, which allows gnome to respond to config changes in a snap :)
[03:36] <Diziet> gconf is only used in the vpn stuff and the applet, not in the main daemon.
[03:39] <Diziet> And, also: XML config files !  *vomit*
[03:40] <bddebian> Morning
[03:41] <Amaranth> Burgundavia: You know mhearn == TD on GIMPNet, right?
[03:41] <Burgundavia> Amaranth, yes, why do you ask?
[03:41] <Diziet> Oh, and of course the daemon doesn't have access to (and shouldn't use) the gconf daemon because it's a system daemon.
[03:42] <Amaranth> well, i was thinking we might want to take this discussion off the forums
[03:42] <Burgundavia> Amaranth, the autopackage one in the breezy forum?
[03:42] <Amaranth> yeah
[03:42] <Burgundavia> Amaranth, you a forum mod?
[03:42] <Amaranth> Nope.
[03:43] <Burgundavia> might be best to lock that thread, as nothing is going to come of it
[03:43] <jdthood> Diziet: I believe NM access gconf via the nm-applet
[03:44] <jdthood> I don't know how useful the daemon is if it doesn't have an applet to talk to.
[03:44] <Diziet> jdt: Ahm.
[03:44] <Diziet> I think I'll make it a compile-time option.
[03:45] <Diziet> It's not a think you want a pointyclicky config of, anyway, and I don't want to invent a config file.
[03:45] <Diziet> s/think/thing
[03:45] <jdthood> Running a system daemon that depends critically on a desktop applet isn't really the Debian way, but this is Ubuntu.
[03:46] <jdthood> Things like modularity and choice don't matter here either.  ;)
[03:46] <Kamion> *cough*
[03:46] <Diziet> jdt: Harmf.  compile-time option> After all, that's what it currently does for whether to mess with BIND.
[03:46] <Diziet> I shall be RMS and fix only some of the world's problems.
[03:47] <jdthood> He's root.  He's mean.  He's square.  And he's here to fix just part of the world.</moviepromovoice>
[03:49] <Diziet> RMS is square ?!  Or I'm square ?  I might become offended :-).
[03:49] <Diziet> Personally I think I'm more of an abstract manifold.
[03:49] <highvolt1ge> If RMS is square, then dammit, I'm square too.
[03:49] <jdthood> Well, no, that's true.  RMS isn't square.  Otherwise his initials would be perfect.
[03:50] <highvolt1ge> PMPO
[03:50] <jdthood> (He's not _really_ mean either, beneath that gruff exterior.)
[03:51] <highvolt1ge> Apparently, he got a message in a dream that he should build a giant canoe and put two of each animal inside, but he misheard and thought that they said "GNU".
[03:58] <seb128> elmo, infinity, Kamion: I've just uploaded a libnotify package, could you reject it?
[03:59] <carstenh> JaneW: yes, he did. thanks again :)
[03:59] <Riddell> elmo: apparantly kubuntu powerpc dvd torrent isn't seeded
[03:59] <carstenh> pitti: do you prefer a answer via mail or irc?
[04:00] <Kamion> seb128: rather than trying to figure out how to reject from queue/unchecked/ at short notice, I moved the files into broken/
[04:00] <Kamion> seb128: what was wrong?
[04:00] <seb128> Kamion: b0rked Build-Depends
[04:00] <seb128> ie: the stock dh_make ones :p
[04:00] <Kamion> heh
[04:00] <pitti> carstenh: mail might be better for the other guys in cc
[04:01] <seb128> Kamion: it's a NEW package
[04:01] <seb128> bah, doesn't really matter, I can fix it as a -0ubuntu2 if that's easier
[04:01] <fabbione> seb128: libnofity???
[04:01] <fabbione> notify..
[04:01] <seb128> fabbione: yeah, why?
[04:01] <fabbione> it sounds so much something related to inotify
[04:01] <seb128> no
[04:01] <carstenh> pitti: ok, who should be in cc? jeff of couse
[04:01] <fabbione> seb128: ok thanks...
[04:01] <seb128> fabbione: that's a desktop stuff
[04:01] <pitti> carstenh: Matt as well, please
[04:01] <Kamion> seb128: oh, I didn't know, I just saw it in unchecked
[04:02] <Kamion> seb128: you can reupload as -0ubuntu1
[04:02] <carstenh> pitti: ok
[04:02] <seb128> Kamion: thanks
[04:02] <pitti> carstenh: thanks; great work so far!
[04:02] <fabbione> seb128: well gamin does use inotify :) it is still a desktop stuff ;)
[04:02] <seb128> right :)
[04:03] <carstenh> pitti: i did not see the cc in your mail :)
[04:03] <fabbione> yay.. gtk is almost built :)
[04:03] <pitti> carstenh: hm?
[04:04] <carstenh> pitti: i don't use my usual mailclient at the moment, so i did not see that field in the header
[04:04] <pitti> carstenh: "mutt sucks less" :-); nevermind
[04:05] <carstenh> pitti: just a quick question: what do you think about moving the frontend to a own package? i don't see anything about that in your mail
[04:05] <pitti> carstenh: it should be a separate deb in any case, probably even a separate source package
[04:06] <Kamion> what, you're going to -6?
[04:06] <pitti> carstenh: I didn't assume that anyone would seriously consider to put them in the same deb anyway
[04:06] <pitti> fabbione, stop draining our bandwidth! :-)
[04:06] <carstenh> pitti: but not in gst as originally planned?
[04:06] <mjg59_> Anyone here got an Omnibook?
[04:06] <pitti> carstenh: ah, I thought you meant "separate from ubuntu-firewall"
[04:07] <fabbione> Kamion: probably not me.. i am preparing stuff..
[04:07] <fabbione> Kamion: but yes.. it is required..
[04:07] <carstenh> pitti: both somehow
[04:07] <pitti> carstenh: integration into g-s-t would rock of course, but only if upstream adopts it; and you can't use python for that
[04:07] <Kamion> fabbione: sigh
[04:07] <fabbione> Kamion: i can't avoid it :(
[04:07] <fabbione> 8 symbols are changed..
[04:08] <carstenh> pitti: they would allow python according to a file in the souce (don't remeber which one)
[04:08] <sivang> carstenh: maybe you are referring to the work by garnacho on the backends,
[04:08] <pitti> carstenh: oh? then you should at least write the code in a way that it would fit into the g-s-t architecture
[04:09] <sivang> carstenh: he is wrapping them up to make the possiblilty of accepting commands through dbus
[04:09] <JaneW> carstenh: great
[04:09] <pitti> then we had perl, python, and C code in the same package, cheers
[04:09] <carstenh> pitti: | Our GUI should be usable for all Ubuntu systems and its non-Gnome based derivatives (such as Kubuntu), so we decided to create our own package instead of extending gnome-system-tools.
[04:09] <sivang> carstenh: so then you could write python frontends and use the g-s-t backends
[04:09] <pitti> ok, fine for me
[04:09] <sivang> pitti: true :)
[04:09] <carstenh> sivang: just a minute, i will search that file
[04:10] <carstenh> pitti: so we could skip integrating it in gst?
[04:10] <pitti> if it's too difficult or doesn't fit well, sure
[04:11] <carstenh> sivang: |Currently, all the backends are in Perl, all the frontends are in C, and all
[04:11] <pitti> Riddell: ping
[04:11] <carstenh> the frontend layouts are in Glade XML. We accept backends and frontends in
[04:11] <carstenh> Python, though.
[04:11] <carstenh> sivang: from HACKING in the source
[04:12] <sivang> carstenh: look for liboobs
[04:12] <sivang> carstenh: (mind the pun ;-)
[04:12] <pitti> ouch, I read "libboobs" the first time...
[04:12] <sivang> pitti: hehehe
[04:12] <Kamion> d'oh
[04:13] <fabbione> lol
[04:13] <Riddell> pitti: hi
[04:13] <pitti> Riddell: I'm preparing another round of langpacks since it seems there finally is the time to upload them soon
[04:13] <Riddell> pitti: split?
[04:13] <pitti> Riddell: for testing kde, is there any language != English you can reasonably understnad?
[04:14] <pitti> Riddell: or at least can tell "yes, this looks like lang $foo"?
[04:14] <sladen> pitti: french
[04:14] <sivang> carstenh: http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/liboobs/
[04:14] <pitti> Riddell: into gnome/kde/other
[04:14] <Riddell> pitti: french is good for me
[04:14] <pitti> Riddell: ok, fine, thanks
[04:14] <Riddell> and I'm practiced in en_gb  :)
[04:14] <carstenh> sivang: just found this url, thanks
[04:14] <pitti> Riddell: "language != English" ...
[04:15] <pitti> Riddell: or do you mean en_gb != english? :-)
[04:15] <fabbione> wow...
[04:15] <Riddell> well it has translation files
[04:15] <fabbione> -23h:45m to holidays!
[04:15] <pitti> I mean, you invented it before those american slang speakers...
[04:15] <sivang> carstenh: I worked with garnacho before hoary, so I know few things about g-s-t, don't hesitate to ask. If I don't know I'll just say so :)
[04:16] <carstenh> thanks :)
[04:16] <sivang> carstenh: np
[04:18] <\sh> fabbione: lucky u
[04:18] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: can you please fetch the packages from http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/, install them and barf if anything breaks?
[04:19] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: after upgrading the main langpack, you should get an update notification to install KDE/Gnome, too
[04:19] <\sh> fabbione: oh..I'm w8ing now 1 1/2 year for holidays :) 
[04:20] <mjg59_> Is dmidecode really i386 only?
[04:20] <mjg59_> No amd64?
[04:21] <carstenh> pitti: i think it would fit and not be too difficult. but users of ubuntu derivates (i.e. kubuntu) should be able to use the frontend too, so i would prefere a own pygtk app
[04:21] <Nafallo> mjg59_: wfm @ amd64 laptop
[04:21] <pitti> carstenh: right
[04:21] <seb128> pitti: lemme try
[04:21] <pitti> carstenh: ... as long as Kubuntu users can live with gtk :-)
[04:21] <Riddell> carstenh: what's this?
[04:22] <carstenh> Riddell: a ubuntu firewall gui
[04:22] <sladen> mjg59_: doesn't amd64 expect you to use EFI for fetching that crap?
[04:22] <carstenh> pitti: they could use gtk2-engines-gtk-qt - theme engine using Qt for GTK+ 2.x :)
[04:23] <mjg59_> sladen: amd64 doens't (so far) have emi
[04:23] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: hold on, please, the update notification is not working
[04:23] <pitti> lemme fix that first
[04:23] <carstenh> hmm, jeff is not here :/
[04:24] <seb128> pitti: it has worked here
[04:24] <pitti> seb128: translations? or the notification? or both?
[04:24] <seb128> pitti: I got the little light bubble with the msg you gave me to translate some time ago :p
[04:25] <pitti> seb128: ah, cool. In French even?
[04:25] <seb128> no, did I send the translation to you?
[04:25] <pitti> seb128: erm, no
[04:26] <seb128> what I though
[04:26] <seb128> let me find it :p
[04:27] <pitti> seb128: do you have sane gnome translations now?
[04:30] <Riddell> pitti: is it possible to get the charset entry.desktop and flag.png files in the kde-langpacks?  otherwise the user can't choose the language
[04:30] <seb128> pitti: works fine with GNOME here
[04:30] <pitti> Riddell: shouldn't be too hard
[04:31] <pitti> Riddell: I can add some "additional-files" facility into langpack-o-matic
[04:32] <seb128> pitti: how does this notification stuff works?
[04:33] <pitti> seb128: /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/language-pack-de_20050701
[04:33] <seb128> pitti: ie: I've installed the language pack updates, I got the notification, read the message, installed the gnome languagepacks
[04:33] <pitti> seb128: that's generated by the postinst
[04:33] <seb128> pitti: now I log with gdmflexiserver on an another user, and he has the notification too
[04:33] <seb128> but I've already installed the packages, etc
[04:33] <pitti> seb128: that's the current design of those notifications, sorry
[04:34] <seb128> no pb, just curious :)
[04:34] <pitti> seb128: it immediately appear in all current sessions
[04:34] <seb128> that's not a current session
[04:34] <seb128> I've opened it after installing the language packs
[04:34] <pitti> seb128: oh, hm
[04:34] <seb128> that mean that a new user will get all the stuff listed on his first loggin?
[04:34] <seb128> ie: 6 months of notifications? :)
[04:35] <pitti> mvo: ^
[04:35] <pitti> mvo: would it be possible to deactivate a notification once *one* user handled (i. e. has seen) it?
[04:36] <jani> ping elmo
[04:37] <jani> xfce sync reminder, thanks
[04:38] <mjg59_> seb128: Around?
[04:39] <pitti> seb128: oh, update-manager is not running in my session, that's why it doesn't work for me
[04:39] <lamont> Kamion: at the very least, the ramdisk_size=8192 needs to go from elilo.conf (since the initrd is >9MB atm(
[04:39] <seb128> mjg59_: pong
[04:39] <seb128> pitti: oh, k :)
[04:40] <mjg59_> seb128: So I have a list of laptop keycodes that should be bound to gnome events by default
[04:40] <pitti> seb128: but that's a bug for mvo, so nm
[04:40] <seb128> pitti: wait for the translation :p
[04:40] <pitti> seb128: I have to wait for the Rosetta tarball
[04:40] <seb128> mjg59_: the gnome-settings-daemon stuff?
[04:40] <pitti> seb128: and I want to have a final word with mdz
[04:40] <mjg59_> seb128: Easiest way to do this may be to change the default values in the schemas?
[04:40] <seb128> k, so I've time :)
[04:40] <mjg59_> seb128: Yeah
[04:40] <pitti> seb128: if we can avoid splitting the langpacks, then it would be even better, but that depends on the rosetta activity (I need the tarball for that)
[04:40] <seb128> mjg59_: yeah, changing the schemas seems to be the right way for that
[04:41] <mvo> pitti: disabeling it globally once one user has seen it is tricky because the file is stored in /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d
[04:42] <pitti> mvo: so what do you propose? we have the same problem with the kernel notes - they still appear even after I actually rebooted
[04:42] <mjg59_> seb128: Ok - I'll send you a list of which keys need changing and what to?
[04:42] <mjg59_> Or should I just file a wishlist bug?
[04:42] <mvo> pitti: a small suid application that can remove notifications?
[04:42] <pitti> eek
[04:42] <pitti> well, ok, would work
[04:42] <Riddell> "The Application "update-notifier" has quit unexpectedly."  oh well
[04:43] <pitti> mvo: would that generally be what we want? declare a notification as handled once the first user sees it?
[04:43] <seb128> mjg59_: best option is a patch for the schemas, but a list of keys would be fine too I guess :)
[04:44] <seb128> mjg59_: put that to bugzilla please, easier to keep track of it this way
[04:44] <mjg59_> seb128: I can't download new packages at the moment, so I'll have to work off the latest I have here - probably not simple to patch
[04:45] <seb128> the schemas has not changed for ages
[04:45] <Riddell> pitti: which packages is the /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d file in?
[04:45] <pitti> ok, so who uninstalled update-notifer on my box???
[04:46] <pitti> Riddell: it's generated dynamically in the l-p-<lang> postinst
[04:46] <Riddell> ah hah
[04:46] <seb128> mjg59_: anyway just put the list if that's easier for you, I'll patch the .schemas
[04:46] <pitti> Riddell: we can't just ship it since we don't show it if we have a more recent version
[04:46] <mjg59_> seb128: Cool, thanks
[04:46] <seb128> np
[04:47] <Kamion> lamont: ok, I've doubled that in debian-cd
[04:47] <Riddell> pitti: hmm, I don't see anything in /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/  after installing all 6 packages
[04:48] <pitti> Riddell: did you have installed a langpack before?
[04:48] <lamont> Kamion: the kernel is compiled (ia64) with a default ramdisk size of 32768
[04:48] <Riddell> pitti: I don't think so
[04:48] <pitti> Riddell: the note doesn't appear on fresh installs since it wouldn't make sense for them
[04:48] <pitti> Riddell: this is meant for the hoary->breezy update transition
[04:49] <pitti> Riddell: so it's actually behaving correctly
[04:50] <Riddell> pitti: so it checks for a previous langpack-kde-fr?
[04:50] <Diziet> Spot the problem:    syslog (syslog_priority, message);
[04:50] <pitti> Riddell: no, for an older l-pack-fr
[04:51] <pitti> Riddell: for cross-checking, can you purge all packages, install the current breezy version, and dpkg -i them again?
[04:51] <Kamion> Diziet: format string bug?
[04:51] <Diziet> How did you guess ?  Just looking to see if it's exploitable.
[04:53] <Diziet> Who knows.  It sets this thing as the glib logging handler function.
[04:59] <Riddell> pitti: "Name: Language pack reorganization" has now appeared in user.d
[05:00] <Riddell> pitti: should langpack-kde-xx-base not have  Replace: kde-i18n-xx ?
[05:01] <mdz> morning
[05:01] <mdz> pitti: you need to talk with me?
[05:02] <wasabi_> Oooh. I like xchat-gnome.
[05:02] <mdz> Diziet: how is network-manager?  is it going to make it for feature freeze?
[05:04] <Diziet> What's the feature freeze date ?  (Am I supposed to have known?)
[05:04] <mjg59_> 11th August
[05:05] <Diziet> I'm going to have the resolvconf integration finished today.
[05:05] <Kamion> Diziet: http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule, FYI
[05:05] <Diziet> We're going to run dnsmasq from that.
[05:05] <Diziet> k: Ta.
[05:06] <Kamion> er, or not, apparently moved, but you can see that for yourself
[05:06] <Diziet> Quite so :-).
[05:06] <Riddell> Diziet: does network-manager have a KDE frontend?
[05:06] <Kamion> elmo: ping, re libdebian-installer sync
[05:07] <Diziet> rid: Not AFAIAA.
[05:11] <Diziet> I note that we seem to be in `UpstreamVersionFreeze' already.  Does that mean we're not supposed to add new packages from universe into main ?
[05:11] <Diziet> 'cos network-manager is currently in universe.
[05:12] <Burgundavia> no
[05:12] <Diziet> Good :-).
[05:16] <MagnusR> df
[05:16] <Amaranth> i love freenode!
[05:17] <Amaranth> i'm throttled right out of #ubuntu, great
[05:17] <tseng> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GetOffFreenodeSpec
[05:18] <dilinger> jbailey
[05:18] <dilinger> er
[05:18] <Amaranth> tseng: It'll never happen.
[05:19] <Kamion> Diziet: no, it's purely about what we import into Ubuntu (main or universe) from elsewhere, although we do start getting more cautious after UVF. Feature goals tend to be obvious exceptions, though.
[05:19] <Amaranth> tseng: You'll just split the users.
[05:20] <pitti> mdz: Good morning; sorry, was at the phone
[05:20] <mdz> pitti: morning
[05:20] <seb128> hi mdz
[05:20] <pitti> mdz: I wanted to talk about the final solution for langpacks, but I need numbers for that, and to get them I need the hoary tarball from Rosetta
[05:20] <seb128> infinity: could you kick epiphany-browser with the current firefox package?
[05:21] <pitti> seb128: binary nmu?
[05:21] <seb128> pitti: what binary nmu? it ftbfsed because of the .pc stuff, I want a retry with the new package
[05:21] <pitti> seb128: ah, ok; I thought you want to rebuild against the 1.0.6 api, sorry
[05:22] <seb128> oh, no ... somebody has a warty box to try this one? :)
[05:23] <pitti> seb128: I tried quickly in a chroot, but epy doesn't work in a chroot
[05:23] <pitti> seb128: "Bonobo couldn't locate the GNOME_Epiphany_Automation.server file. You can use bonobo-activation-sysconf to configure the search path for bonobo server files."
[05:24] <pitti> seb128: that's the only thing I get if I start epi in a warty dchroot
[05:24] <seb128> hum
[05:24] <pitti> seb128: starting mozilla and ffox works fine
[05:24] <seb128> weird
[05:24] <seb128> try restarting bonobo
[05:24] <pitti> seb128: I mean, the file is right there
[05:24] <pitti> seb128: how?
[05:26] <seb128> is bonobo-activation-server running from your chroot?
[05:26] <pitti> no, I guess not
[05:26] <seb128> I guess that's the issue
[05:26] <pitti> can I start it manually?
[05:26] <pitti> seb128: I just do export DISPLAY=:0.0 for ffox
[05:27] <seb128> usually apps start it when required
[05:27] <seb128> I'm not sure about this one
[05:27] <pitti> seb128: in which package is this?
[05:27] <pitti> $ acs bonobo server
[05:27] <pitti> gchemutils - GNOME chemistry utils (common test files and binaries)
[05:27] <pitti> hardly
[05:28] <seb128> libbonobo2-common
[05:28] <tseng> nice alias.
[05:28] <seb128> /usr/lib/bonobo-activation/bonobo-activation-server 
[05:28] <pitti> seb128: it's installed in the warty dchroot
[05:28] <elmo> Kamion: done
[05:28] <Kamion> thanks
[05:28] <elmo> how usable is vino in hoary?
[05:29] <Kamion> d'oh, none of my baz archives have been mirroring to chinstrap/rookery for ages
[05:29] <seb128> elmo: supposed to work fine, why?
[05:29] <tseng> elmo: works pretty reasonably on 100baseT link
[05:29] <elmo> seb128: I just remember that at some stage (probably pre-warty), it was only useful for client or something
[05:29] <tseng> even used 11g
[05:30] <elmo> yeah, that's what I'll be using, 80211.b
[05:30] <elmo> well, unless I drag a cable.. hum.
[05:30] <tseng> it does use XDamage
[05:30] <tseng> so it might not be that bad
[05:30] <tseng> theoretically only redraws damaged bits
[05:39] <slomo> hmm, does somebody know how to use DEB_SHLIBDEPS_INCLUDE with cdbs? i use "DEB_SHLIBDEPS_INCLUDE := debian/libwavpack0/usr/lib" but this leads to -l :debian/libwavpack0/usr/lib and this warning: "Use of uninitialized value in scalar assignment at /usr/bin/dh_shlibdeps line 138, <COMPAT_IN> line 1."
[05:40] <pitti> seb128: reproduced
[05:40] <pitti> seb128: epy is supposed to display a menu if I right-click?
[05:41] <mdz> pitti: did the rosetta team tell you when they could provide the tarball?
[05:41] <pitti> mdz: carlos sent me one an hour ago, but it is buggy
[05:41] <pitti> mdz: wel, it's only 16 MB, but should be ~ 150 :-/
[05:42] <pitti> mdz: we are debugging this right now
[05:42] <pitti> mdz: my plan was: if there are so many actual updates from rosetta that the update packages would grow too big to include them on the CDs, I'll go ahead with splitting
[05:42] <pitti> mdz: if they are relatively small, we can maybe ship them in addition
[05:42] <mdz> pitti: right
[05:43] <pitti> mdz: the alternative would be to not ship rosetta updates on CDs
[05:43] <pitti> and just support downloading them from the network
[05:43] <pitti> but then we can't install them by default and the user had to manually install the package
[05:43] <pitti> and that sucks for less bandwidth posessing folks...
[05:43] <pitti> mdz: ^ are you fine with that? or another idea?
[05:44] <pitti> s/or/or do you have/
[05:46] <mdz> pitti: it really depends on the numbers I think
[05:47] <pitti> mdz: right, I meant, are you fine with that strategy?
[05:47] <mdz> pitti: yes
[05:47] <pitti> splitting langpacks really sucks, but I guess we don't have any other choices
[05:52] <doko> seb128: your argument for reverting the firefox change isn't really convincing: basically you say: I return to the broken behaviour because it works for me, and I don't care about others :-/
[05:53] <pitti> seb128: meh, merely recompiling doesn't help
[05:54] <seb128> doko: we talked about it with pitti here and we agreed on that
[05:54] <seb128> pitti: :(
[05:54] <seb128> pitti: and yep, right click should open a menu
[05:54] <pitti> doko: basically we said: "we return to a way that at least works until somebody actually fixes the moz libs to work with epy"
[05:55] <pitti> seb128: D'oh, so what now? </helpless>
[05:55] <seb128> pitti: what version of epiphany/firefox do we have? I'll ping upstream
[05:56] <doko> I'll depend on mozilla-dev again, so I don't care about it anymore. but your're just wrong with the "fix"
[05:56] <pitti> piphany-browser | 1.7.3-0ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main Sources
[05:56] <pitti> epiphany-browser | 1.4.4-0ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com warty/main Sources
[05:56] <pitti> epiphany-browser | 1.6.1-0ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main Sources
[05:56] <seb128> doko: everybody is too busy to fix it, and we can't stay for weeks with GNOME ftbfsing
[05:56] <pitti> seb128: I need to fix 1.4.4, I can't just upload 1.7.3, or this "new upstream" mess will never end
[05:57] <seb128> doko: out of this your "fix" is just "I remove the possibility to use firefox .pc files because it uses a copy of the libs"
[05:58] <pitti> seb128: it seems that the API of mozilla-dev didn't actually change syntactically, but semantically it seems
[05:58] <seb128> pitti: upstream knows about that usually
[05:58] <seb128> pitti: what version of mozilla ? 1.7.10 ?
[05:59] <seb128> pitti: BTW how did you fix the bonobo-activation error?
[06:00] <seb128> doko: BTW what is your issue with using /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/*.so exactly? Out of the fact that the lib should be packaged at one place to /usr/lib ?
[06:00] <pitti> seb128: yes, 1.7.10
[06:01] <pitti> seb128: I installed the warty version of epy in breezy :-)
[06:01] <seb128> pitti: and what is the issue? doesn't build? crash?
[06:01] <pitti> seb128: right-click (context menu) and middle-click (open in new tab) are broken
[06:01] <pitti> seb128: otherwise it works fine
[06:01] <pitti> seb128: breaking these mouse buttons seems to be pretty common
[06:02] <pitti> seb128: infinity broke them on backporting patches for warty, I broke the middle button on backporting for hoary...
[06:02] <seb128> pitti: <chpe> seb128: looks like the standard problem... was ephy recompiled with 1.7.10 ?
[06:02] <doko> seb128: it doesn't provide the nss headers and library I need
[06:02] <pitti> seb128: in moz and ffox, the function of mouse buttons is defined in javascript (browser.js)
 hmmm weird
[06:03] <pitti> seb128: same behavior with the already compiled warty version and recompiling against 1.7.10 (which works fine)
[06:03] <seb128> pitti: you built the warty version on a warty box with 1.7.10, that's it?
[06:04] <pitti> seb128: right
[06:04] <pitti> seb128: since warty-security now has 1.7.10
[06:04] <seb128> doko: just build with mozilla so, changing firefox the way you did doesn't help you to use firefox and break it for GNOME
[06:04] <pitti> doko: one idea was to copy the ffox version to the moz source package and check whether all browsers work with that
[06:05] <seb128> pitti: chpe ask for a build log ... do you have this?
[06:05] <pitti> seb128: no, but I can generate one
[06:06] <seb128> pitti: please :)
[06:06] <pitti> seb128: if only debuild wouldn't break ccache...
[06:06] <pitti> seb128: I have alias debuild='fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -i'
[06:06] <pitti> so no build log by default
[06:06] <pitti> one day I'll fix that
[06:07] <pitti> seb128: after rebuilding ffox, moz, and tbird 50 times in a week you will use ccache, too :-)
[06:07] <seb128> pitti: chpe says usually rebuilding is enough ... need the log to say something else :p
[06:08] <seb128> pitti: right, probably :)
[06:08] <pitti> but this bloody debuild cleans up the $PATH
[06:08] <pitti> and --preserve-env and --set-env are broken, of course :-/
[06:09] <pitti> crispin: do you use debuild?
[06:09] <crispin> no, I manually build about 15-20 different versions of mozilla :-)
[06:10] <pitti> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/shots/epiphany-browser_1.4.4-0ubuntu2.1_i386.build
[06:11] <pitti> seb128: rebuilding doesn't change anything
[06:11] <seb128> :(
[06:11] <seb128> I've pointed it to chpe
[06:12] <pitti> btw, what channel?
[06:12] <pitti> no need to steal your time with that
[06:12] <seb128> #epiphany on irc.gnome.org
[06:12] <seb128> don't worry, I just IRC ping-pong between chans, that doesn't take a lot :)
[06:16] <Riddell> does ubuntu come with a GUI system log viewer by default?
[06:17] <highvoltage> Riddell: gedit
[06:17] <Riddell> that wasn't what I ment
[06:17] <highvoltage> oh yes, you use kde.
[06:17] <highvoltage> kate
[06:18] <azeem> there's gnome-system-log
[06:18] <Riddell> azeem: that sounds like it, is that installed by default?
[06:19] <seb128> yep
[06:19] <azeem> it's installed here, and I don't think I installed it myself
[06:19] <seb128> that's a part of gnome-utils
[06:19] <azeem> cause I never used it
[06:31] <pitti> seb128: thanks for the translation, I add it to langpack-o-matic
[06:31] <seb128> thank you :)
[06:34] <pitti> lifeless: here?
[06:45] <Diziet> This demented package does all of the building in debian/rules binary.
[06:48] <carstenh> jbailey: ping
[06:48] <jbailey> carstenh: pong!
[06:52] <mdz> pitti: --preserve-env CCACHE_DIR etc. works for me
[06:53] <pitti> mdz: I tried --preserve-env PATH, and it didn't work
[06:53] <mdz> pitti: debuild --preserve-envvar PATH --preserve-envvar CCACHE_DIR
[06:53] <mdz> is what I use with apt
[06:53] <pitti> odd
[06:53] <pitti> have to try that again, thanks
[06:53] <mdz> that certainly worked a couple of months ago, the last time I would have expected it to be in cache
[06:53] <\sh> hi gentlemen
[06:53] <sivang> yo \sh 
[06:57] <\sh> pitti: do u encountered problems with firefox 1.0.6-1ubuntu2 + flash-plugin?
[06:57] <Kamion> woo, oem-config-locale is now just a frontend over localechooser, rather than duplicating code
[06:57] <pitti> \sh: works for me so far
[06:57] <\sh> pitti: new version from today or from yesterday?
[06:58] <pitti> \sh: I currently have the warty version installed, but AFAIK it worked, lemme try again
[06:58] <Kamion> how evil would it be to 'mount --bind / /target' just so that I can use some other installer code unmodified?
[07:01] <\sh> pitti: the new version i didn't test but the one from yesterday crashed...
[07:02] <fabbione> Kamion: not that evil.. why?
[07:03] <fabbione> Kamion: but if you modify in one, the second will get the change too.. it's not snapshotting what you are searching, right?
[07:03] <pitti> seb128: epy resolved, it was PEBCAK, as usual :-/
[07:04] <sivang> Diziet: why not use recovery mode for single user maintainace ?
[07:04] <Diziet> And I can't switch to a VC to do C-A-D because my keyboard map has been mangled.
[07:05] <lamont> dmidecode(4133): unaligned access to 0x600000000000804a, ip=0x4000000000007110
[07:05] <lamont> dmidecode(4133): unaligned access to 0x60000000000080f7, ip=0x400000000000ce81
[07:05] <lamont> dmidecode(4133): unaligned access to 0x6000000000008107, ip=0x40000000000[ ok ] 
[07:05] <lamont> bad dmidecode
[07:05] <Diziet> No, I broke the networking remotely because I like to have a nice wm.  I was hoping it wouldn't actually break.  So I tried to use my existing session to fix it but no luck.
[07:05] <Diziet> existing gnome session on the console that is.
[07:06] <Treenaks> lamont: so it IS i386-specific after all 8)
[07:06] <lamont> lol
[07:06] <lamont> it works, just noisily
[07:06] <Diziet> Oh, the Gnome system / logout / restart computer did work eventually, I just didn't wait long enough.
[07:07] <Diziet> Except now it's stuck on `deconfiguring network interfaces'.
[07:09] <seb128> pitti: "PEBCAK"? 
[07:10] <pitti> seb128: problem exists between chair and keyboard
[07:10] <infinito> hi everyone!
[07:10] <seb128> oh, yeah
[07:10] <seb128> pitti: I've just read on #epiphany
[07:10] <pitti> seb128: I installed the updated epy deb in my warty dchroot and called the version in my breezy system, stupid me
[07:10] <lifeless> pitti: yo
[07:10] <seb128> pitti: nice bug :p
[07:10] <infinito> is there any way to get gcfilms synced form debian to ubuntu?
[07:10] <infinito> people on #ubuntu-motu tell me to ask here
[07:10] <seb128> pitti: anyway just need a rebuild so, that's good news
[07:11] <\sh> infinito: if it's on UniverseCandidates it will be synced when the time comes..
[07:12] <pitti> seb128: yes, already uploaded, I'll shove it out soon
[07:13] <\sh> infinito: but u r free to build a ubuntu package for breezy and upload it to REVU to be reviewed.
[07:13] <infinito> \sh: it is on debian sid, and for what i understand, that's enough to get synced, but maybe i'm wrong...
[07:14] <infinito> \sh: i don't have very clear the real process to get pkg into universe
[07:15] <\sh> infinito: syncing is easy..but doesn't give u and us the security, that it builds with our toolchain...sid is at early state with gcc4 right?
[07:15] <infinito> yeah, but this is a perl-only package
[07:16] <infinito> we have packages for ubuntu in our website that works great
[07:16] <infinito> and the one from sid works as well
[07:16] <\sh> infinito: ok then...where can I have a look to the ubuntu package from u of gcfilms?
[07:17] <infinito> http://download.gna.org/gcfilms/ubuntu
[07:19] <\sh> infinito: ok..I will have a look tomorrow .. but if it's good, u have to convince others to include it...after the UVF
[07:21] <Kamion> fabbione: no
[07:22] <Kamion> \sh: eh? synced packages are rebuilt with our toolchain!
[07:22] <infinito> \sh: don't exactly what you mean....
[07:22] <\sh> Kamion: yes...I'm talking about NEW packages not in ubuntu
[07:23] <infinito> \sh: don't know exactly what you mean
[07:23] <Kamion> \sh: surely you review source packages, not binaries? do you really install random binaries built by people you don't have a trust path to?
[07:24] <\sh> Kamion: it will go into universe anyways..
[07:24] <Kamion> I know that
[07:25] <\sh> Kamion: and I'm building any package again with my own toolset ;) and for new packages I'm testing as well 
[07:26] <\sh> and I should shut up today..i'm a bit stressed...*closeshismouthnow*
[07:33] <infinito> \sh: excuse me just one more time.... what im supposed to do?
[07:33] <infinito> \sh: im really newbie in this ubuntu-dev world...
[07:35] <\sh> infinito: I will have a look on the package tomorrow...and you should think about an explanation why it should be included in universe after UVF as NEW package...when there is mediamate in the universe archive
[07:36] <\sh> and now...I'm busy with my beer...*cheers* /away
[07:36] <infinito> \sh: thanks
[07:38] <Mez> elmo: whats the best way to contact yu ?
[07:38] <Mez> you *
[07:38] <Mez> cause I always manage to catch you when you're busy
[07:41] <Keybuk> hmm, _lots_ of "directory not empty" errors causing problems upgrading X
[07:43] <Keybuk> we should get daniels over to Brazil, and give him some exotic disease
[07:43] <Keybuk> If _I_ were in the distro team, this kind of thing would not happen *stamps foot* :p
[07:43] <\sh> .oO(brazilian shemales) *hides*
[07:44] <bddebian> heh
[07:44] <\sh> ok..tomorrow I will do the rest of the merges...and then slang2
[07:50] <Diziet> Yes, lovely, putting network-manager on my laptop shows up a kernel bug.  It makes ifconfig(8) wedge.
[07:51] <Keybuk> it did that to me too
[07:55] <mdz> Keybuk: ipw2100?
[07:55] <Keybuk> ...now my system's gone into "You must be blind" mode (fist-sized fonts mid-upgrade)
[07:55] <Keybuk> mdz: atheros
[07:55] <mdz> Keybuk: ick, perhaps more than one bug then
[07:56] <Keybuk> seemed to show up on shutdown more than startup
[07:59] <pitti> bah, I got disconnected
[08:00] <Diziet> ipw2100 for me.
[08:00] <Diziet> But the wifi works fine for me in my sarge install with custom kernel.
[08:02] <jasoncohen> it's been a while since thunderbird 1.0.5/6 was released. Now that Warty & Hoary have security updates for firefox & mozilla, will a thunderbird fix be forthcoming?
[08:06] <Diziet> Should I edit wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads to mention the fact that you're supposed to upload source-only ?
[08:07] <pitti> jasoncohen: it's already in the pipe and built, just waiting for a new enigmail
[08:07] <Kamion> Diziet: yes, please
[08:08] <jasoncohen> pitti, great, thanks
[08:08] <jasoncohen> pitti, will updates be a bit smoother from now one without the slowdown of backporting firefox/mozilla fixes?
[08:08] <Keybuk> . o O { where did xkb go? }
[08:09] <pitti> jasoncohen: sure, we decided to use new upstream versions, at least if backporting will take more than a few days
[08:09] <jasoncohen> pitti, what did you do with thunderbird?
[08:09] <pitti> jasoncohen: upgraded to 1.0.6
[08:10] <pitti> jasoncohen: I had the backports working, but it crashed occasionally
[08:10] <jasoncohen> that's because thunderbird 1.0.5 made API changes 
[08:11] <jasoncohen> i thought new upstream releases would only be provided on firefox. I didn't realize it was a general rule for all packages which couldn't be quickly backported- but i guess that still only applies to firefox and a few other packages
[08:12] <pitti> jasoncohen: only for moz, ffox, and tbird, for nothing else
[08:12] <Diziet> Anyone else want a copy of this n-m mail ?
[08:12] <Diziet> (Not that it's hugely long or interesting.)
[08:14] <\sh> g'night guys..
[08:15] <Treenaks> later \sh 
[08:39] <carstenh> pitti: sane is "allow connections to _all_ installed services that provide a rules file", any suggestions for a better name?
[08:41] <carstenh> pitti: i guess that is what you meant with "a restrictive default policy" 
[08:48] <OddAbe19> is there going to be a way to change from the pathbar back to the location bar? or have both? One thing i dont like about the newer gnome releases is the fact that you can't enter a location in some dialogs
[08:58] <OddAbe19> is there going to be a way to change from the pathbar back to the location bar? or have both? One thing i dont like about the newer gnome releases is the fact that you can't enter a location in some dialogs
[09:06] <pitti> carstenh: "restrictive" means "forbid everything but explicitly permitted things"
[09:07] <pitti> carstenh: as opposed to "permissive" (allow everything but explicitly prohibited things)
[09:11] <Amaranth> OddAbe19: You can always hit Ctrl-L
[09:11] <Amaranth> OddAbe19: And there is a gconf key to change it to a location bar
[09:11] <Amaranth> OddAbe19: If you're talking about nautilus, that is
[09:12] <Amaranth> OddAbe19: /apps/nautilus/preferences/always_use_location_entry
[09:12] <carstenh> forbid everything but all installed services is restrictive?
[09:13] <carstenh> s/^/pitti: /
[09:14] <pitti> carstenh: sort of, yes, because the installed services need to specify their policy
[09:14] <pitti> carstenh: but we can't do that in breezy if we don't manage to create policies for everything 
[09:14] <carstenh> sure, but for breezy+1
[09:15] <carstenh> and that is what i meant with sane
[09:15] <OddAbe19> Amaranth, thanks, it's just one of the few factors in my descision to goto breezy (i'm so antsy to try, but scared to)
[09:15] <OddAbe19> not as stable as Hoary was at this point
[09:48] <jp> http://restrex.dotgeek.org/shot.png !
[09:49] <dilinger> oooh
[09:49] <dilinger> a tree display of channels would make me happy, so happy
[09:50] <Lathiat> happy happy joy joy>?
[09:50] <jp> rox! heh
[09:51] <jp> dilinger http://xchat-gnome.navi.cx/building.shtml
[09:51] <dilinger> libsexy, eh?
[09:52] <Lathiat> dilinger: heh yeh, library by chipx86 for things like clickable urls in labels and icons in text boxes
[09:52] <jp> no, I've not applied for that, I'm asexist dude
[09:52] <jp> ;-)
[09:52] <jp> heheh
[09:52] <jp> yep
[09:53] <dilinger> Lathiat: chipx86 of gaim fame? :(
[09:53] <jp> yeah
[09:53] <Lathiat> dilinger: why the :( ?
[09:55] <dilinger> gaim's interface pains me
[09:56] <Treenaks> dilinger: use bitlbee
[10:02] <mgalvin> hi all
[10:03] <mgalvin> does any know if apt supports https?
[10:03] <hubH> jp: if you could fix the default completion scheme, I think lot of people would love y ou
[10:03] <hubH> the new fancy one is just unusable
[10:03] <Riddell> elmo: the kubuntu powerpc dvd still isn't seeded.  are you the right person to poke?
[10:04] <dilinger> hubH: agreed
[10:06] <hubH> q. when un bugz someone say to discuss it on ubuntu-devel, is it on the mailing list ?
[10:10] <jp> hubH heh not programmer yet dude, I wanna be one, but now I've not time to learn, next year I'll study computing science, so next year I wanna get involved on programming and helping
[10:10] <jp> :-)
[10:11] <tseng> more like an exercise in futilitiy
[10:11] <jp> tseng really, now I don't have time
[10:11] <jp> I could learn, but I'm preparing to join university dude
[10:12] <jp> so, next year, I'll be in programming times I think
[10:13] <tseng> ok :)
[10:13] <jp> :)
[10:32] <jasoncohen> does the epiphany problem only affect warty?
[10:33] <pitti> jasoncohen: it's already fixed in warty, btw
[10:33] <jasoncohen> yeah, i just got the security notice
[10:33] <jasoncohen> btw, USN-155-1 was never emailed
[10:34] <pitti> jasoncohen: hm?
[10:34] <jasoncohen> USN-155-1 was never sent to the ubuntu security announce list
[10:34] <pitti> indeed, how odd...
[10:34] <jasoncohen> i got USN-154-1 and then USN-149-3 
[10:34] <jasoncohen> and USN-155-2 just came in a few minutes ago
[10:35] <pitti> http://lists.grok.org.uk/pipermail/full-disclosure/2005-July/035434.html
[10:35] <pitti> ^ USN-155-1 on full-disclosure
[10:36] <jasoncohen> yeah, i saw it a few days ago on https://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/usn/usn-155-1
[10:36] <pitti> jasoncohen: I probably overlooked it in mailman, thanks for pointing out
[10:36] <jasoncohen> the warty firefox update was kind of scary. i've never seen that many CAN's in one update
[10:37] <pitti> I released it to the list
[10:37] <jasoncohen> 53 in all
[10:38] <jasoncohen> pitti, was warty's firefox vulernable to all security flaws in 1.0.1-1.0.5 or just some?
[10:39] <pitti> jasoncohen: most
[10:42] <jasoncohen> pitti, why did warty never receive a patch? was it just too difficult to backport fixes?
[10:42] <pitti> jasoncohen: we started with backporting and went on, but the vulns came faster than we could keep up
[10:42] <pitti> jasoncohen: and it was very hard to backport to 0.8.3
[10:42] <pitti> 0.9.3
[10:43] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[10:43] <pitti> this was really unfortunate
[10:43] <pitti> Hi ajmitch 
[10:44] <jasoncohen> pitti, well, can you imagine backporting fixes from mozilla 1.7.8 to mozilla 1.7.0 from 3 years earlier
[10:44] <jasoncohen> i can't imagine the amount of code changes that must have occured
[10:44] <jasoncohen> that was the situation with woody
[10:44] <pitti> I can imagine it
[10:45] <pitti> 1.7.0? 1.4.0 rather?
[10:45] <jasoncohen> http://packages.debian.org/oldstable/web/mozilla
[10:46] <jasoncohen> 1.0.0-0.woody.1
[10:46] <jasoncohen> i read the bug reports...the developers weren't even sure if it was still vulnerable
[10:46] <jasoncohen> *if it was vulnerable
[10:46] <pitti> that actually worked?
[10:47] <ajmitch> true, 18 months of security updates for fewer packages is easier than ~3 years for all of debian :)
[10:47] <jasoncohen> 4 years
[10:47] <jasoncohen> 3 years + 1 year after release of sarge
[10:47] <ajmitch> ah yes
[10:48] <jasoncohen> and the security team can't prioritize
[10:48] <pitti> jasoncohen: it might be that Sarge now will receive new upstream versions of at least tbird
[10:48] <jasoncohen> neither mozilla nor firefox have been patched
[10:48] <pitti> jasoncohen: at least that's the maintainer's intention
[10:49] <jasoncohen> pitti, heh, you think so? debian developers are pretty anal about backporting all security fixes
[10:49] <jasoncohen> they refused to use a new mozilla version in woody
[10:49] <pitti> jasoncohen: actually we are, too, that's why it took so long
[10:49] <pitti> jasoncohen: new upstreams just break so many things, see warty langpacks and epy
[10:49] <pitti> which shows that our general approach with backporting is richt
[10:49] <pitti> right, even
[10:49] <jasoncohen> yes it is but not with mozilla products
[10:50] <jasoncohen> there are just too many security fixes, too often
[10:50] <pitti> that's not the problem
[10:50] <jasoncohen> and neither debian nor ubuntu could keep up
[10:50] <jasoncohen> then what is?
[10:50] <pitti> but the code is too complicated and intertwinded
[10:50] <jasoncohen> ah
[10:50] <dredg> changes between versions that break backported code don't help
[10:51] <pitti> it uses 34 API levels, javascript all over the place, garnished with 10 XML formats...
[10:51] <jasoncohen> well, didn't you know that would happen? a day after 1.0.5 was released, 1.0.6 came out
[10:51] <pitti> jasoncohen: and they can't resist from adding new features to new upstream versions
[10:51] <jasoncohen> to fix that very problem
[10:51] <ajmitch> so that's why noone likes taking responsbility for firefox :)
[10:51] <pitti> ajmitch: right, 'cause that package is TEH SUCK
[10:52] <pitti> it doesn't even have a patch system
[10:52] <pitti> mozilla and tbird are much better packaging-wise (of course that doesn't help to cure the upstream mess)
[10:52] <jasoncohen> and the mozilla team doesn't really like distribution patches
[10:52] <pitti> jasoncohen: well, the patches are there
[10:53] <jasoncohen> they would prefer to have users use the upstream release from a QA standpoint
[10:53] <jasoncohen> since they hear the complaints when something doesn't work
[10:53] <pitti> jasoncohen: I ported them to our versions, that was not a problem (well, it took some 40 hours, but oh well)
[10:53] <pitti> jasoncohen: the problem is that it is impossible to find the patches that fix the regressions from the security patches
[10:53] <jasoncohen> it may not be the perfect solution but using the new upstream release certainly assures quick security updates and will save you a lot of time and grief
[10:53] <pitti> jasoncohen: and they still use cvs
[10:54] <pitti> jasoncohen: that's what we finally concluded as well
[10:54] <pitti> jasoncohen: I tried to work with their cvs, but it's a pain
[10:54] <jasoncohen> users should just install extensions manually using the xpis
[10:54] <pitti> cvs so much sucks, especially if you maintain some 40 branches in it
[10:54] <jasoncohen> and then upgrade after they upgrade firefox
[10:55] <jasoncohen> that seemed to be part of the problem with the the last security backport (to 1.0.5 fixes)
[10:56] <jasoncohen> what is debian doing about firefox/mozilla?
[10:57] <pitti> jasoncohen: they won't have much choice than to upgrade to new upstreams
[10:57] <jasoncohen> debian's security team seems to prioritize server apps. i see updates for obscure little server packages which are probably used by very few people while the big desktop packages aren't fixed
[10:57] <pitti> jasoncohen: RedHat had employed an upstream hacker to do security updates for mozilla stuff
[10:57] <pitti> jasoncohen: and yet they put 1.0.6 into their enterprise distro (!)
[10:57] <Lathiat> pitti: heh
[10:57] <jasoncohen> heh
[10:58] <jasoncohen> what do you think of what they do with fedora?
[10:58] <jasoncohen> backporting some and new upstream for others
[10:58] <pitti> jasoncohen: which indicates that two Ubuntu hackers with no code knowledge can't possibly be better than that and win
[11:00] <jasoncohen> i've never really understood fedora's security update policy but it seems to work. they get updates out quickly
[11:01] <jasoncohen> why does mozilla refer to security problems by their own MFSA #s rather than the CANs?
[11:01] <ajmitch> ah, I was looking at wrong version in changelog
[11:01] <ajmitch> bother, it's a new upstream version too
[11:01] <pitti> jasoncohen: they can get them immediately, I suppose, and they have their own schema (much like our USNs)
[11:02] <pitti> jasoncohen: often, the CAN assignment slacks for a while
[11:02] <pitti> jasoncohen: but they should indeed use them more regularly
[11:02] <pitti> jasoncohen: mapping a MFSA to a CAN is nontrivial
[11:02] <jasoncohen> they should at least give the CANs as well
[11:03] <pitti> jasoncohen: they do in a few MFSAs
[11:03] <jasoncohen> that's one reason i didn't like backporting of security fixes on firefox
[11:03] <pitti> which reason?
[11:03] <dredg> heh, for added fun, see redhat's changelogs.
[11:03] <jasoncohen> not all of the fixes in the new upstream were always backported at one time and it was difficult to tell what was missing since the USNs used CAN #s and mozilla uses MFSA's
[11:03] <dredg> they're _nasty_
[11:04] <pitti> jasoncohen: hm, sorry; but we generally use CANs since they are much easier to track and more standardized
[11:04] <jasoncohen> no- i agree with you
[11:04] <jasoncohen> i want mozilla to follow the standard and give the CANs too
[11:05] <jasoncohen> but why did you release a patched firefox versoin without all the fixes from the upstream?
[11:05] <jasoncohen> *the security fixes
[11:06] <pitti> jasoncohen: hm, I did? you mean the 1.0.2 backported version?
[11:06] <jasoncohen> yes
[11:06] <jasoncohen> USN-124-1
[11:06] <pitti> I applied all patches that were mentioned in their MFSAs
[11:07] <pitti> darn, silly network; brb
[11:08] <Lathiat> MFSA = mozilla foundation security advisory?
[11:11] <jasoncohen> pitti, hey- USN-134-1 included all the fixes from 1.0.4
[11:12] <jasoncohen> i was referring to USN-124-1
[11:12] <jasoncohen> it only lists 7 CANs and there are 9 MFSAs...did the CANs include multiple MFSAs?
[11:15] <pitti> probably two MFSAs didn't apply to us, lemme check
[11:15] <jasoncohen> MFSA-2005-33 is linked to CAN-2005-0989 which isn't in the USN
[11:16] <jasoncohen> also, security patches are sometimes spread over more than one security advisory so you dont' know if you have all the security updates from the current upstream release
[11:17] <jasoncohen> for an example see USN-139-1 AND USN-140-1 - from gaim 1.3.1
[11:17] <jasoncohen> the updates were seperated over 5 days
[11:17] <jasoncohen> *seperated by 5 days
[11:18] <pitti> jasoncohen: for example, MFSA-2005-33 was already fixed before the hoary release
[11:18] <pitti> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/m/mozilla-firefox/mozilla-firefox_1.0.2-0ubuntu5.1/changelog
[11:18] <jasoncohen> that and the time it takes to patch is really the only advantage of getting new upstream releases. you know you're up to date & secure
[11:18] <pitti> in 1.0.2-0ubuntu4
[11:18] <pitti> jasoncohen: oh, gaim patches are easy
[11:19] <pitti> jasoncohen: I already fixed the gaim package before it became public and released it immediately
[11:19] <pitti> jasoncohen: and I got to know the other issue only a bit later
[11:19] <pitti> jasoncohen: but a mere DoS wasn't something I needed to particularly prioritize
[11:20] <jasoncohen> AH
[11:20] <jasoncohen> i see
[11:20] <jasoncohen> i see now
[11:20] <jasoncohen> but at the time i wasn't sure if it was patched or not
[11:20] <pitti> CAN-2005-0989 was the MFSA 2005-33
[11:21] <pitti> jasoncohen: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/fixed.html
[11:21] <pitti> ^ I use that for tracking, and I just marked hoary as not vulnerable to CAN-2005-0989
[11:23] <jasoncohen> pitti, i was looking for a site like that. debian testing has one
[11:23] <pitti> http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve shows the index
[11:23] <jasoncohen> btw, what does CAN stand for? i know what CVE is
[11:24] <dredg> isn't CAN getting renamed to CVE?
[11:24] <jasoncohen> yeah
[11:24] <Mez> pitti: ping
[11:24] <dredg> or did i make that up?
[11:24] <jasoncohen> common vulnerability and exposures
[11:24] <pitti> dredg: no, that will happen soon
[11:24] <pitti> Hi Mez 
[11:24] <Mez> ah, sorry didnt see you there :D
[11:24] <Mez> pitti, did you package FF yourself, or were you working from debain stuff?
[11:25] <Mez> cause I'm thinking of making a firefox-preview release (for those who want to play with 1.5) and was wondering the best place to start
[11:25] <jasoncohen> Mez, hey, what's going to happen with backports-staging? currently some of the staging packages can't be used with backports because they require libraries from the old backports like libgcc1
[11:25] <Mez> whether I should start witha  new package, or wheter I should work from the current one
[11:25] <pitti> Mez: we base all packages on the Debian ones
[11:26] <pitti> Mez: debian/ is fine, but you should definitively add a patch system to ti
[11:26] <Mez> jasoncohen, they shouldnt depend on libgcc1 from backprots - that's just bad packaging
[11:26] <pitti> Mez: moz and tbird have patch systems, but ffox doesn't
[11:26] <Mez> pitti: It's not a problem to add a patch system to it ... just wondering about making a preview release (for universe of course)
[11:26] <jasoncohen> Mez, i know that, heh
[11:26] <pitti> Mez: would rock :-)
[11:26] <Mez> what's your opinion - is it worth packaging up?
[11:27] <pitti> Mez: well, if you want to, sure; and we can use the packaging for the final release
[11:27] <pitti> Mez: but please ask the Debian maintainer for cooperation
[11:27] <quitte> i have a problem compiling gtk-doc. the error i get is:checking for DocBook XML DTD V4.1.2 in XML catalog... not found
[11:27] <pitti> Mez: and persuade him about the necessity of a patch system :-/
[11:27] <jasoncohen> Mez, any timeframe on when official backports will receive smeg, f-spot and other assorted packages that are currently missing
[11:27] <quitte> i already recompiled docbook-xml but that didnt help. any idea what i should do?
[11:27] <quitte> lool: if you are there please have a look
[11:28] <Mez> pitti, I don't know whether he's thought about 1.5 yet - as a preview release... and well, though patch systems are nice, are they needed atm (you are just on about debian/patches right?
[11:28] <Mez> jasoncohen, we're waiting on elmo and sorting other stuff
[11:28] <jasoncohen> pitti, why does http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/unfixed.html show packages in hoary as unfixed when hoary-security has the appropriate patches
[11:29] <pitti> jasoncohen: the mirror where I'M running the scripts lags a bit
[11:29] <pitti> jasoncohen: last automatic update was almost 12 hours ago
[11:29] <pitti> and it's only mirrored once per day or so
[11:30] <pitti> jasoncohen: it'll resolve nicely tomorrow or so
[11:30] <jasoncohen> ok, because it's still showing mozilla 1.7.6
[11:30] <Amaranth> oh dear, no smeg in backports?
[11:30] <jasoncohen> Amaranth, not in official backports
[11:30] <jasoncohen> it's still on the old mirrors
[11:30] <Amaranth> oh, that reminds me
[11:30] <jasoncohen> pitti how about php4, gnupg, gzip, and unzip. are they really vulnerable? 
[11:31] <Amaranth> Mez: What happens to my gnome-menus 2.10.2ish packages?
[11:31] <Mez> Amaranth, what?
[11:32] <pitti> jasoncohen: php4 was a typo in the changelog, nothing real
[11:32] <pitti> jasoncohen: the gnupg issue is not something we need to be concerned with (very low prio)
[11:32] <Amaranth> Mez: gnome-menus 2.10.2-0ubuntu1~5.04ubp1
[11:32] <pitti> jasoncohen: I still have to do gzip and unzip, but they are not very critical and I wanted to do the moz stuff before
[11:33] <pitti> jasoncohen: there is a fair amount of stuff I need to catch up with, the moz stuff drained a lot of time from me
[11:33] <jasoncohen> how old is the gzip problem?
[11:33] <jasoncohen> it shows 03-17-2005
[11:34] <Mez> Amaranth, what about it
[11:34] <Amaranth> Mez: breezy doesn't have 2.10.2 :P
[11:34] <Mez> what version does breezy have?
[11:34] <pitti> jasoncohen: hoary isn't vulnerable anyway
[11:34] <Amaranth> Mez: I wouldn't bother putting smeg in hoary-backports if that can't come with it.
[11:34] <Amaranth> Mez: I'm not willing to deal with the bug reports.
[11:34] <pitti> jasoncohen: ah, that's the reason, even warty is not affected
[11:34] <Amaranth> Mez: 2.11.90
[11:35] <Mez> Amaranth, breezy has 2.11.90
[11:35] <Amaranth> You can't backport GNOME to hoary.
[11:35] <Mez> so whats the problem with that version being there
[11:35] <Amaranth> smeg needs 2.10.2 or newer
[11:35] <pitti> jasoncohen: I'll clean up that list a bit once I have some time again
[11:35] <Amaranth> hoary has 2.10.1
[11:35] <Mez> mmhmm, so hasn't smeg been used in hoary?
[11:35] <jasoncohen> Amaranth, it does...i'm using it with gnome-menus 2.10.1
[11:36] <Amaranth> Mez: gnome-menus 2.10.2-0ubuntu1~5.04ubp1 is in backports
[11:36] <Mez> Amaranth, so why cant we put 2.11.90 in backports official
[11:36] <Amaranth> jasoncohen: I'm surprised you haven't bitched yet, I got a ton of complaints about things not working or me breaking people's menu until I got them all on that.
[11:36] <Amaranth> Mez: Depends on a bunch of other 2.11.90 stuff, you'd end up backporting GNOME.
[11:37] <jasoncohen> Amaranth, i did notice xine is showing up in it's own Multimedia menu and i can't get rid of it
[11:37] <Amaranth> jasoncohen: ding!
[11:37] <Amaranth> jasoncohen: http://ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net/dists/hoary-backports/main/binary-i386/gnome-menus_2.10.2-0ubuntu1~5.04ubp1_i386.deb
[11:37] <jasoncohen> installing 2.10.2 now
[11:37] <Amaranth> http://ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net/dists/hoary-backports/main/binary-i386/libgnome-menu0_2.10.2-0ubuntu1~5.04ubp1_i386.deb
[11:37] <jasoncohen> i just activated the old backports source
[11:37] <Amaranth> ah, ok
[11:38] <Mez> Amaranth, and the problem with backporting gnome is?
[11:38] <Mez> lol
[11:38] <Mez> we're planning to backport KDE :D
[11:38] <Amaranth> Mez: seb128 will murder you
[11:38] <Mez> lol
[11:38] <Amaranth> Mez: You're going to keep hoary-backports running past breezy's release?
[11:38] <jasoncohen> Amaranth, how do i get rid of the multimedia menu. smeg isn't showing it
[11:38] <Mez> lol
[11:39] <Mez> Amaranth - dunno yet
[11:39] <Amaranth> jasoncohen: install those packages and log out/in
[11:39] <jasoncohen> pitti, so, of the gnupg, php4, and gzip, unzip CANs, which actually affect hoary?
[11:39] <pitti> EPARSE
[11:39] <pitti> ah, ok
[11:39] <pitti> unzip and gnupg
[11:40] <pitti> but I won't update gnupg
[11:40] <pitti> it's just not worth breaking gnupg for an academic issue
[11:40] <pitti> unzip will be fixed soon
[11:40] <jasoncohen> has it been fixed upstream?
[11:40] <jasoncohen> i'm using gnupg 1.4.1
[11:40] <pitti> yes, it's fixed in breezy
[11:40] <jasoncohen> i'll just do another backport from breezy then
[11:41] <pitti> OMG, why bother?
[11:41] <jasoncohen> i need the SHA2 hashes
[11:41] <pitti> ah, for that, ok
[11:41] <pitti> but not for that stupid CAN, please
[11:41] <jasoncohen> so, it's a non-issue
[11:41] <Mez> lxbc9adp
[11:41] <jasoncohen> um, this makes no sense
[11:41] <Mez> f**k
[11:41] <Mez> stupid thing
[11:41] <jasoncohen> gaim 1.4.0 has this CAN http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CAN-2004-0891 which only applies to gaim .79 to 1.0.1
[11:42] <pitti> jasoncohen: it's basically "if I send you 2 million mails and ask you to try to decrypt them and tell me which one succeeded, then I can tell you the first two bytes of your key"
[11:42] <jasoncohen> hmm, lol
[11:42] <jasoncohen> and that'll do nothing 
[11:42] <pitti> jasoncohen: mathematically it is interesting, but not really something you would encounter in practice
[11:42] <Mez> fabbione: ping
[11:42] <jasoncohen> pitti, why does gaim 1.4.0 show that CAN?
[11:43] <pitti> jasoncohen: only in hoary-backports
[11:43] <jasoncohen> yeah
[11:43] <jasoncohen> but hoary-backports has the newest upstream release- 1.4.0
[11:43] <pitti> jasoncohen: because that CAN isn't in the changelogs, but in my override database
[11:43] <jasoncohen> and that CAN is very old
[11:43] <Mez> soryr
[11:44] <Mez> backports. .. /
[11:44] <pitti> jasoncohen: and I just told my db "fixed in warty, hoary"
[11:44] <Mez> whats was the problem?
[11:44] <jasoncohen> ok
[11:44] <pitti> jasoncohen: I don' track issues in backports
[11:44] <pitti> I mean, I could add it 
[11:44] <Mez> what issue in backports ?
[11:44] <jasoncohen> you shouldn't have to if backports has the newest upstream
[11:44] <pitti> but h-backports didn't appear in my list until three days ago
[11:44] <pitti> I'll probably just ignore *-backports in ubuntu-cve
[11:44] <jasoncohen> Mez, http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/unfixed.html shows gaim 1.4.0 as being vulnerable but the CAN is really old and doesn't apply
[11:45] <jasoncohen> pitti, do you ever patch issues in universe?
[11:45] <pitti> that's a community effort
[11:45] <pitti> in the past, there were some quite active patchers
[11:47] <jasoncohen> pitti, a few php packages were fixed from universe
[11:47] <jasoncohen> was that done by the community?
[11:47] <pitti> yes, I don't do them myself
[11:47] <pitti> I review debdiffs and release packages, but I don't have the time to patch universe
[11:48] <jasoncohen> what will happen when ubuntu releases its enterprise distro with a longer support cycle? will main be expanded to support more server packages like debian?
[11:49] <pitti> no idea, we didn't talk about that yet
[11:49] <jasoncohen> though debain seems to support too many packages and they prioritize for a server and usually ignore desktop apps for a while
[11:49] <pitti> that'll be a topic on november's conference, I guess
[11:49] <jasoncohen> *debian
[11:49] <pitti> jasoncohen: indeed, Debian should adopt something like universe as well
[11:50] <pitti> supporting 15.000 packages with things like some dozen crappy php web apps and other ever-breaking stuff is insane
[11:50] <jasoncohen> i receive DSAs and i haven't even heard of half the packages being patched
[11:50] <ajmitch> pitti: heard anoy more about the next conferenve?
[11:50] <maswan> well, first debian should get aorund to vancouvering some arches... :)
[11:50] <pitti> no, just the rough time
[11:50] <ajmitch> ok
[11:51] <jasoncohen> yup, do you think they will maswan?
[11:51] <pitti> maswan: I don't think that the arches is the biggest problem, it's one of Debian's biggest strengths rather
[11:51] <jasoncohen> i use sarge for my mythtv box- so i have a lot of php, apache and mysql stuff some of which is in universe in ubuntu
[11:51] <maswan> pitti: well, the mirror split is really needed.
[11:51] <pitti> right
[11:52] <maswan> pitti: the rest is about release team handling ports vs porting team handling releases. if the release team say they can't handle it, some solution needs to be found. the future will tell, I guess.
[11:53] <jasoncohen> pitti, who tests security updates before being released and why was USN-149-1 released with the known problems in firefox 1.0.5?
[11:54] <pitti> jasoncohen: I tested them, and ffox worked just fine for me; I tested it with some extensions, flash, video, and several profiles
[11:54] <pitti> I just didn't test the extensions everybody else seemed to deem as utterly important
[11:55] <jasoncohen> pitti, if its any condolance, it worked fine for me
[11:55] <jasoncohen> and i use tab browser preferences
[11:55] <jasoncohen> i just download the xpi myself rather than using the packaged version
[11:55] <pitti> jasoncohen: it worked for me, too, otherwise I wouldn't have released it :-)
[11:55] <maswan> Hmm.. I wonder if you could put a cost at supporting a package over the lifetime of a release
[11:56] <pitti> but thanks :-)
[11:57] <jasoncohen> pitti, is an 18 month security support cycle reasonable? is it more difficult to support warty now for example than hoary?
[11:58] <pitti> jasoncohen: for most packages it's not, and I think 18 months is reasonable
[11:58] <jasoncohen> it seems that other than mozilla/firefox/thunderbird, all of the updates have been simultaneous on both warty & hoary
[11:58] <Nafallo> pitti: apt-cache madison openmotif
[11:58] <Nafallo> pitti: the change in breezy is closing those xpm vulns ;-)
[11:59] <pitti> Nafallo: openmotif doesn't exist... ???
[11:59] <pitti> libmotif-dev |    2.2.3-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/multiverse Packages
[11:59] <pitti> ah, multiverse
[11:59] <Nafallo> pitti: multiverse
[11:59] <Nafallo> yepp :-)
[11:59] <Nafallo> the only one for hoary :-P
[11:59] <Nafallo> s/one/four/
[12:00] <pitti> gosh, who still uses motif nowadays???
[12:00] <pitti> why not at least lesstif?
[12:00] <Nafallo> pitti: ubuntu-cve ;-)
[12:00] <Nafallo> might aswell backport it for {warty,hoary}-security