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Burgundavia | salut mpt | 02:13 |
---|---|---|
mpt | hi Burgundavia, I've just put ubuntu-help on the Supermirror | 02:13 |
Burgundavia | cool | 02:13 |
mpt | mpt@myrealbox.com/help--0 | 02:13 |
Burgundavia | now I just need the baz crack of the day to work, haven't tried in a few days | 02:14 |
mpt | wah, where'd he go | 02:14 |
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Burgundavia | bloody xchat | 02:15 |
mpt | Should show up at http://mirrors.sourcecontrol.net/mpt@myrealbox.com/ within about 15 minutes | 02:15 |
Burgundavia | ok | 02:16 |
mpt | so feel free to add all the docbook markup I haven't learnt yet, fill in your own sections, etc :-) | 02:16 |
Burgundavia | ok | 02:16 |
mpt | for each topic, think: Why has someone come here? | 02:17 |
mpt | it's quite probably because they've tried the obvious thing, and it hasn't worked | 02:17 |
mpt | so each topic should cover the most likely causes of failure. | 02:17 |
mpt | anyway, I need to log off and give the ethernet cable back to the hotel computer :-) | 02:18 |
mpt | I'll be back two hours before the docteam meeting | 02:18 |
Burgundavia | ok | 02:19 |
mpt | tchau | 02:19 |
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Burgundavia | mdke, I am waving the flaming sword of organization on the wiki | 11:14 |
mdke | hello | 11:26 |
mdke | sounds good | 11:27 |
Burgundavia | ok | 11:27 |
Burgundavia | does moving fix the links to that page or do I need to do that myself? | 11:28 |
mdke | you have to do that | 11:28 |
mdke | same as deleting | 11:28 |
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Burgundavia | ok, same as mediawiki | 11:28 |
Burgundavia | salut jsgotangco | 11:28 |
jsgotangco | salut | 11:28 |
jsgotangco | Burgundavia, you seem to have an itch on Installation help heh | 11:28 |
mdke | yes cept mediawiki leaves a redirect note on the previous page afaik, ours doesn't even do that | 11:29 |
Burgundavia | mdke, moving a page creates a redirect, yes | 11:29 |
jsgotangco | ahhh and mdke is back again... | 11:29 |
Burgundavia | however, mediawiki search ignores redirects | 11:29 |
Burgundavia | ours does not | 11:29 |
Burgundavia | I have been struggling with backlinks | 11:30 |
Burgundavia | is ther something like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Main_Page | 11:30 |
Burgundavia | all I can find is this --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation?action=LocalSiteMap | 11:30 |
mdke | yes | 11:30 |
Burgundavia | which sucks | 11:30 |
Burgundavia | to be honest | 11:30 |
mdke | just click on the title of the page you want to see the backlinks for | 11:30 |
mdke | dude | 11:31 |
mdke | you've been deleting pages without knowing that? | 11:31 |
Burgundavia | I have been following local site map | 11:31 |
mdke | no wonder there are broken links around | 11:31 |
jsgotangco | heh | 11:31 |
jsgotangco | steam roller | 11:31 |
Burgundavia | sorry our wiki software hides useful features in stupid locations | 11:31 |
=== rob^ finally gets xauth working :) | ||
mdke | i thought all wikis have the "click on title for backlinks" thing | 11:32 |
Burgundavia | I like mediawiki's links, sorry | 11:32 |
Burgundavia | nothing is hidden in menus | 11:32 |
Burgundavia | or hidden completely | 11:32 |
jsgotangco | right | 11:32 |
jsgotangco | go mediawiki | 11:32 |
Burgundavia | the other thing that bugs me is getting from any special page back the page it is about | 11:33 |
mdke | ok burgs it is hidden I agree, but you really should make sure you know stuff like that before going around deleting pages | 11:33 |
Burgundavia | mediawiki has a link called aricle | 11:33 |
Burgundavia | mdke, sorry about that, but that is total bollocks where it puts it | 11:33 |
mdke | Burgundavia, i agree, but still, if you're gonna do drastic work, read the docs man | 11:33 |
Burgundavia | yes | 11:34 |
Burgundavia | it is just a wiki | 11:34 |
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Burgundavia | if I need to read a documenation about how to use it, that is completely broken | 11:34 |
mdke | i agree | 11:34 |
mdke | but still, i warned you about backlinks a few times | 11:35 |
Burgundavia | I thought I knew what I was doing | 11:35 |
Burgundavia | I found a semi useful link | 11:35 |
mdke | ok well np | 11:35 |
mdke | we can fix the broken links | 11:35 |
=== Burgundavia grumbles about stupid broken shit | ||
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=== mdke_ presses wrong button | ||
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mdke | Burgundavia, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHowCome has escaped the flaming sword? :p | 11:37 |
Burgundavia | haven't got to it yet | 11:38 |
mdke | ;) | 11:38 |
Burgundavia | don't worry, there is lots to burn through before then | 11:38 |
jsgotangco | when i saw it, i read "HowToCome" | 11:38 |
Burgundavia | lmao | 11:38 |
=== Burgundavia now has to decide whether to sleep for 4 hours or just stay up | ||
rob^ | thats a pretty big wiki page | 11:39 |
Burgundavia | indeed | 11:39 |
Burgundavia | the author is quite a nice guy | 11:39 |
Burgundavia | just needed to be guided in the correct direction | 11:39 |
rob^ | theres gotta be some useful stuff there :) | 11:39 |
Burgundavia | what do I do with these lovely Moin installation docs? | 11:39 |
Burgundavia | they cannot stay where they are, due to misleading names | 11:40 |
mdke | you can't edit them afaik | 11:41 |
Burgundavia | what!!! | 11:41 |
mdke | lemme read your email | 11:41 |
Burgundavia | you are right | 11:41 |
Burgundavia | I cannot | 11:41 |
rob^ | hmm my breezy test-bed pc needs 550 mb to upgrade from warty to breezy | 11:41 |
=== Burgundavia goes with his sword to hunt down hendrik | ||
mdke | all the HelpOn pages are moin related | 11:42 |
Burgundavia | yes | 11:43 |
=== jsgotangco avoids the wiki stuff as much as possible | ||
Burgundavia | I still hate our wiki | 11:43 |
rob^ | if you don't want to remove them, maybe rename them to MoinEtcEtc or something | 11:43 |
Burgundavia | but, like any ugly child, it still needs love | 11:43 |
Burgundavia | yes | 11:43 |
rob^ | it needs a bitch slap | 11:43 |
Burgundavia | rob^, I don't want them to die, they just need to move | 11:44 |
mdke | maybe we can make a subpage under /Moin/ | 11:44 |
rob^ | Burgundavia, yeah, so if you rename them people wont get confused | 11:44 |
mdke | but all the links will need redoing i think | 11:44 |
rob^ | yeah :P | 11:44 |
Burgundavia | that cannot be that many | 11:44 |
jsgotangco | does the moin sandbox still exist | 11:44 |
Burgundavia | yes | 11:45 |
Burgundavia | MoinSandbox, I think | 11:45 |
jsgotangco | either that or WikiSandbox | 11:45 |
jsgotangco | how about FindPage | 11:46 |
jsgotangco | and HelpForBeginners | 11:46 |
mdke | there are millions of help pages | 11:46 |
mdke | well, not millions obviously | 11:46 |
jsgotangco | well those are the basic Moin help pages... | 11:46 |
mdke | HelpContents is the index | 11:46 |
Burgundavia | I am also thinking about a standard page name for installation of programs | 11:46 |
mdke | Burgundavia, the problem is you have to deal with all the language variants of the HelpPages too | 11:46 |
Burgundavia | yes | 11:47 |
Burgundavia | I am well aware of that | 11:47 |
jsgotangco | see HelpForBeginners is still standard Moin help | 11:47 |
jsgotangco | heh | 11:47 |
Burgundavia | it also needs to move | 11:47 |
mdke | i dunno | 11:47 |
Burgundavia | moin has no bloody namespaces | 11:47 |
mdke | i still believe that linking is the way forward | 11:47 |
Burgundavia | like Moin:Blah | 11:47 |
Burgundavia | upstream rejected my idea of adding them as "a hack" | 11:48 |
=== Burgundavia thinks upstream doesn't understand presentation wikis | ||
jsgotangco | nice...the whole ubuntu moin wiki still has all the moin help pages... | 11:48 |
mdke | of course, you don't think it should? | 11:49 |
jsgotangco | mdke, not all | 11:49 |
Burgundavia | I don't mind the moin help pages | 11:49 |
Burgundavia | I just want them clearly labelled as Moin pages | 11:49 |
jsgotangco | but then, those pages are really useless in a security sense... | 11:50 |
mdke | jsgotangco, but how do users learn about how the wiki works? | 11:50 |
Burgundavia | do you think ProgramInstallation or InstallingProgram is a better default? | 11:50 |
Burgundavia | mdke, you make a page like this --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Introduction | 11:51 |
jsgotangco | mdke, like i said, some pages are pretty useless for end users as they pertain mostly to Moin backend config and ACLs | 11:51 |
Burgundavia | linked from FrontPage | 11:51 |
mdke | jsgotangco, but they might be useful to some, so why remove them? do they do harm to others? | 11:52 |
Burgundavia | email sent to Hendrik about moving those Moin installation pages | 11:52 |
jsgotangco | mdke, in a stricter sense, it does not jive with overall Ubuntu wiki documentation hence there should at least be a way to classify them | 11:52 |
Burgundavia | mdke, in our "main namespace", there should only be docs that pertain to Ubuntu | 11:53 |
Burgundavia | and other Ubuntu related stuff | 11:53 |
jsgotangco | HelpOnUpdatingPython for example...is very much a Moin issue rather than a Python issue | 11:53 |
mdke | those pages are not linked on UserDocumentation | 11:54 |
mdke | Burgundavia, there are a lot more than docs in our main namespace | 11:54 |
jsgotangco | they may not be, but it doesn't mean its not there :) | 11:54 |
Burgundavia | mdke, they can be found via search | 11:54 |
Burgundavia | mdke, that is why I killed those InstallationTutorial pages | 11:55 |
Burgundavia | read my email | 11:55 |
Burgundavia | https://wiki.ubuntu.com//FrontPage?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=python&titlesearch=Titles | 11:55 |
Burgundavia | which are you going to choose? | 11:55 |
=== mdke shrugs | ||
mdke | i'll choose them all and see which one helps | 11:55 |
Burgundavia | ouch | 11:55 |
Burgundavia | that is a lot of clicking and reading | 11:56 |
mdke | i use linux, i'm always clicking and readings :D | 11:56 |
Burgundavia | I really want to move non-docs off our wiki | 11:56 |
Burgundavia | I have raised this idea before, but got no support | 11:56 |
mdke | non docs? | 11:56 |
jsgotangco | heck we better prepare a lot of pitchforks for that | 11:56 |
mdke | so developments stuff, motu stuff, userpages? | 11:56 |
Burgundavia | the udu wiki exists | 11:56 |
Burgundavia | lets use it | 11:56 |
=== Burgundavia curses the lack of namespace support | ||
Burgundavia | mediawiki has a nice feature | 11:57 |
Burgundavia | Burgundavia is not User:Burgundavia | 11:57 |
jsgotangco | yeah the namespace really organizes a lot of stuff | 11:57 |
Burgundavia | rejected by upstream as a hack | 11:57 |
Burgundavia | fools | 11:57 |
jsgotangco | thats why i recommended a client to use mediawiki instead for information stuff | 11:58 |
Burgundavia | much better for what we are trying to do | 11:58 |
shawarma | Why did we settle on Moin in the first place? | 11:58 |
Burgundavia | shawarma, we didn't choose the wiki | 11:58 |
Burgundavia | Ubuntu loves python and moin is python | 11:58 |
jsgotangco | generally, its a Python application | 11:58 |
Burgundavia | moin is faster than mediawiki | 11:58 |
shawarma | Oh, right. | 11:58 |
Burgundavia | media is also evil PHP | 11:59 |
shawarma | I forget: What were we using before? | 11:59 |
Burgundavia | Zwiki, more shite | 11:59 |
shawarma | Oh, right. | 11:59 |
Burgundavia | that had even less features, if that is possible | 11:59 |
shawarma | *G* | 11:59 |
mdke | Burgundavia, the udu wiki is merging with our wiki | 11:59 |
mdke | ditto edubuntu | 11:59 |
Burgundavia | seriously? | 12:00 |
=== Burgundavia cries | ||
mdke | yes | 12:00 |
mdke | mark's call | 12:00 |
Burgundavia | we really really need namespaces | 12:00 |
Burgundavia | segregate all the developer stuff to Developer: | 12:00 |
mdke | we could use subpages for that | 12:01 |
Burgundavia | can we move them all a subpage of Developers ? | 12:01 |
Burgundavia | or Development | 12:01 |
mdke | it is possible, but I have a hunch that we don't | 12:01 |
mdke | don't/won't | 12:01 |
jsgotangco | hehehe..even gentoo uses mediawiki... | 12:02 |
Burgundavia | yes | 12:02 |
Burgundavia | so does the hula-project | 12:02 |
jsgotangco | yeah | 12:02 |
Burgundavia | they are also looking into wiki<-->docbook stuff | 12:02 |
Burgundavia | very seriously | 12:02 |
jsgotangco | isnt that what Nat was pushing for? | 12:02 |
Burgundavia | he is working with the hula team | 12:03 |
Burgundavia | no idea what capacity | 12:03 |
Burgundavia | and the mediawiki people are willing to jump to python, if someone codes for them | 12:03 |
Burgundavia | they are seriously shortstaffed | 12:03 |
jsgotangco | i have a hula live account but it doesnt do pop | 12:03 |
jsgotangco | just smtp | 12:03 |
Burgundavia | without jumping engines, how can we solve our "too many on one wiki" issue? | 12:04 |
Burgundavia | can we realisitically ask all to move all the development stuff to subpages? | 12:05 |
mdke | IMHO, no | 12:06 |
mdke | i really don't think there is a need | 12:06 |
mdke | you can ask them to make intuitive names for pages of course | 12:07 |
Burgundavia | categories can help | 12:07 |
Burgundavia | can we have subcategories? | 12:07 |
Burgundavia | ie, can I move the category MOTU to be under development? | 12:08 |
Burgundavia | also the category archive | 12:08 |
jsgotangco | hmmm interesting we have a Matthew East in docteam and there's a Matthew West in the Learn Linux project :) | 12:08 |
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jsgotangco | see you all in a few hours, i'm going to drop by the grocer first... | 12:17 |
Burgundavia | oh crap | 12:23 |
Burgundavia | stupid god damn CamelCase | 12:23 |
Burgundavia | should I move WithFloppies to FromFloppies, to be consistent? | 12:31 |
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mpt | hi everyone | 02:23 |
Burgundavia | salut mpt | 02:23 |
mpt | hi Burgundavia, did anything work? | 02:23 |
Burgundavia | haven't tried it | 02:23 |
Burgundavia | my life is a total disaster right now | 02:23 |
mpt | http://mirrors.sourcecontrol.net/mpt@myrealbox.com/help--0/ | 02:24 |
mpt | What's up? Anything that can be helped from outside? | 02:24 |
Burgundavia | about the only good news I have heard all week is that I am getting a free laptop, courtesy of your boss | 02:24 |
Burgundavia | yes, a job would be nice, but canonical has already said no | 02:24 |
mpt | heh, cool | 02:24 |
rob^ | my local lug wants me to give a presentation on Ubunut next meeting | 02:25 |
mpt | What did you ask to do? | 02:25 |
mpt | (for Canonical) | 02:25 |
Burgundavia | bug traige, docs, usability | 02:25 |
rob^ | anyone know of a good ubuntu style OOo template? | 02:25 |
mpt | Burgundavia: Hmm, well we have quite a few volunteers for all those things :-) | 02:26 |
Burgundavia | wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations might have something | 02:26 |
rob^ | thanks Burgundavia | 02:26 |
Burgundavia | mpt, enrico used to do one day a week of wiki gardening | 02:26 |
=== mpt mirrors up | ||
Burgundavia | the spare time I have, I have been dumping into the wiki | 02:27 |
mpt | thereby disproving any claim that you need to be paid :-/ | 02:28 |
Burgundavia | not really | 02:28 |
Burgundavia | if I was paid, I could do a lot more work | 02:29 |
mpt | trus | 02:29 |
mpt | true, even | 02:29 |
mpt | Will you have time to look at the archive before the meeting? | 02:29 |
Burgundavia | and the wiki does need it | 02:29 |
Burgundavia | sure, will look now | 02:29 |
mpt | thanks | 02:31 |
Burgundavia | the only major issue that I see right off the bat is length of the headings | 02:34 |
Burgundavia | yelp hides the end | 02:34 |
mpt | Yes, there's a lot of yelp tweaks I haven't found out how to do yet | 02:35 |
mpt | one of the things I want to do is hide the ToC frame | 02:35 |
mpt | I thought <?yelp:chunk-depth 0?> would do that, but it got ignored | 02:36 |
mpt | and <?yelp:chunk-depth 1?> resulted in the whole document being rendered as a single page | 02:36 |
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jjesse | doc meeting today right? | 03:19 |
mpt | yep, 40 minutes | 03:19 |
jjesse | well if i'm not too busy at work it will be the first one i'm actually at :) | 03:20 |
=== Burgundavia grumbles about it being 6:20am here and he is listening to tango | ||
jjesse | bummer about it being early for you | 03:21 |
Burgundavia | hey, 22UTC is 7am for Jerome | 03:21 |
jjesse | burgundavia you are in the us? | 03:21 |
Burgundavia | Canada, west coast | 03:21 |
jjesse | ah | 03:21 |
Burgundavia | jjesse, where are you? | 03:22 |
jjesse | Michigan US | 03:22 |
jjesse | so Eastern TIme zone | 03:22 |
Burgundavia | ok | 03:22 |
rob^ | hey, what is the name of the guy who founded Ubuntu again? | 03:25 |
Burgundavia | Mark Shuttleworth | 03:25 |
rob^ | the rich thawe dude | 03:26 |
Burgundavia | we need a common about Ubuntu section | 03:26 |
Burgundavia | that we can paste into docs | 03:26 |
rob^ | Hes the guy who went up in space, right? | 03:26 |
Burgundavia | correct | 03:26 |
rob^ | cool | 03:26 |
rob^ | this presento is comming along.. | 03:26 |
Burgundavia | oh, you are doing a presentation for your lug | 03:27 |
rob^ | yeah | 03:27 |
Burgundavia | I did one for LinuxFestNorthWest | 03:27 |
Burgundavia | not bad | 03:27 |
rob^ | they want to use Ubuntu for an installfest comming up | 03:27 |
rob^ | on software freedom day | 03:27 |
Burgundavia | cool | 03:27 |
jjesse | OOOO | 03:27 |
Burgundavia | my lug still uses FC | 03:27 |
Burgundavia | poor bastards who get that | 03:28 |
rob^ | so does mine | 03:28 |
rob^ | but I convinced them otherwise | 03:28 |
rob^ | and they wanted to know more, so yeah.. | 03:28 |
mpt | https://shipit.ubuntulinux.org/ <-- wtf | 03:47 |
Burgundavia | ok then | 03:47 |
Burgundavia | I remember that old wiki | 03:47 |
=== rob^ gets coffee | ||
mpt | MEETING TIME | 04:00 |
mpt | Who's here? | 04:00 |
=== highvolt1ge is Jonathan Carter | ||
=== highvoltage too | ||
mpt | two people? :-) | 04:01 |
Burgundavia | the rest will come | 04:01 |
mpt | three people! | 04:03 |
mpt | Is that a quorum? | 04:04 |
rob^ | w00t! | 04:04 |
Burgundavia | mpt, we meet in #ubuntu-meeting | 04:05 |
mpt | ah | 04:05 |
Burgundavia | mdke, you there? | 04:08 |
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Burgundavia | mpt, welcome back | 05:18 |
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rob^ | so umm yeah | 05:30 |
jsgotangco | yeah? | 05:33 |
rob^ | I dunno | 05:34 |
rob^ | time for bed I think, its 130am | 05:34 |
Burgundavia | jsgotangco, did you do a summary for the jul 14th meeting? | 05:34 |
rob^ | umm I don't think anyone did it did they? | 05:34 |
jsgotangco | hmmm i have it somewhere over here but i haven't posted it either... | 05:34 |
Burgundavia | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeamMeetingSummary7?action=edit | 05:35 |
jsgotangco | these 2 weeks are rather busy on my part | 05:35 |
Burgundavia | that is what it should be | 05:35 |
Burgundavia | I will make my summary 8 | 05:35 |
jsgotangco | alright, ill post it later | 05:35 |
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rob^ | well that sucks, breezy broke my ssh x forwarding :( | 05:40 |
Burgundavia | indeed it does | 05:45 |
rob^ | fudge it | 05:45 |
=== rob^ thinks he might have found a work around | ||
Burgundavia | rob^, you want to email about the yelp main page stuff as well? | 05:54 |
rob^ | yeah, I'll do in in a while, going to get some sleep first | 05:55 |
Burgundavia | sure | 05:55 |
Burgundavia | the summary is going out in a few minutes | 05:55 |
rob^ | good :) | 05:56 |
rob^ | I'll refer to that | 05:56 |
Burgundavia | fix if you see things I left out | 05:56 |
Burgundavia | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeamMeetingSummary8?action=show | 05:56 |
rob^ | man locales are so messed up in breezy atm | 06:01 |
rob^ | night all | 06:02 |
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mpt | ... back | 06:05 |
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jsgotangco | ok guys later..good night | 06:17 |
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jsgotangco | hmm | 06:17 |
jsgotangco | btw | 06:17 |
jsgotangco | baz can happen anytime | 06:17 |
jsgotangco | its just waiting for us | 06:17 |
jsgotangco | night | 06:17 |
mpt | So, what did I miss? | 06:18 |
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carstenh | hi, how do i add comments in a wiki, something like /* comment */ in c++? | 06:30 |
jeffsch | use ## at the beginning of each comment line | 06:31 |
carstenh | jeffsch: and how do i comment out blocks? | 06:31 |
carstenh | ok, then i will use ## to comment out a block, thanks a lot | 06:32 |
jeffsch | i don't think you can comment out blocks :( | 06:32 |
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carstenh | jeffsch: i used ## for this block, thanks a lot again. | 06:35 |
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mpt | https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/products/ubuntu-help | 07:36 |
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jjesse | why can't ubuntu get their certificates setup correctly :) sick of warnings :) | 08:05 |
mpt | heh | 08:05 |
mpt | Not just certificates, but also domain names | 08:05 |
mpt | Compare and contrast: | 08:05 |
mpt | http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadIntegration | 08:05 |
mpt | https://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadIntegration | 08:06 |
jjesse | https://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadIntegration doesn't exist | 08:07 |
mpt | it did a week ago | 08:07 |
mpt | the point is, they're different pages on different sites | 08:07 |
jjesse | that's silly | 08:08 |
jjesse | https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/products/ubuntu-help/+series/trunk is there a "more" cause its taking forever to loa | 08:08 |
jjesse | load | 08:08 |
mpt | nothing interesting | 08:08 |
mpt | it's quite embarrassing, really | 08:08 |
mpt | Launchpad is based around managing code in Bazaar | 08:09 |
mpt | but *currently*, it lets upstream developers register code that's in SVN, and code that's in CVS, but *not* code that's in Bazaar | 08:09 |
mpt | that'll be fixed in the next month or two | 08:09 |
mpt | That's why I put the URL in the description. | 08:10 |
jjesse | ah | 08:16 |
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