=== mpt [~mpt@200-158-154-87.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:13] salut mpt [02:13] hi Burgundavia, I've just put ubuntu-help on the Supermirror [02:13] cool [02:13] mpt@myrealbox.com/help--0 [02:14] now I just need the baz crack of the day to work, haven't tried in a few days [02:14] wah, where'd he go === Burgundavia [~corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:15] bloody xchat [02:15] Should show up at http://mirrors.sourcecontrol.net/mpt@myrealbox.com/ within about 15 minutes [02:16] ok [02:16] so feel free to add all the docbook markup I haven't learnt yet, fill in your own sections, etc :-) [02:16] ok [02:17] for each topic, think: Why has someone come here? [02:17] it's quite probably because they've tried the obvious thing, and it hasn't worked [02:17] so each topic should cover the most likely causes of failure. [02:18] anyway, I need to log off and give the ethernet cable back to the hotel computer :-) [02:18] I'll be back two hours before the docteam meeting [02:19] ok [02:19] tchau === poningru [~poningru@pool-71-243-228-244.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [~rob@rob-ubuntu.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [~Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [~rob@rob-ubuntu.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvolt1ge [~Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [~jgotangco@202.57.71.236] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvolt1ge [~Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === shawarma [~sh@193.108.190.126] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [~jgotangco@202.57.71.236] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [~rob@rob-ubuntu.student.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [~Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [~poningru@pool-68-238-172-6.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Seveas [~seveas@ksl403-uva-141.wireless.uva.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [~matt@mdke.user] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:14] mdke, I am waving the flaming sword of organization on the wiki [11:26] hello [11:27] sounds good [11:27] ok [11:28] does moving fix the links to that page or do I need to do that myself? [11:28] you have to do that [11:28] same as deleting === jsgotangco [~jsg@202.57.71.236] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:28] ok, same as mediawiki [11:28] salut jsgotangco [11:28] salut [11:28] Burgundavia, you seem to have an itch on Installation help heh [11:29] yes cept mediawiki leaves a redirect note on the previous page afaik, ours doesn't even do that [11:29] mdke, moving a page creates a redirect, yes [11:29] ahhh and mdke is back again... [11:29] however, mediawiki search ignores redirects [11:29] ours does not [11:30] I have been struggling with backlinks [11:30] is ther something like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Main_Page [11:30] all I can find is this --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation?action=LocalSiteMap [11:30] yes [11:30] which sucks [11:30] to be honest [11:30] just click on the title of the page you want to see the backlinks for [11:31] dude [11:31] you've been deleting pages without knowing that? [11:31] I have been following local site map [11:31] no wonder there are broken links around [11:31] heh [11:31] steam roller [11:31] sorry our wiki software hides useful features in stupid locations === rob^ finally gets xauth working :) [11:32] i thought all wikis have the "click on title for backlinks" thing [11:32] I like mediawiki's links, sorry [11:32] nothing is hidden in menus [11:32] or hidden completely [11:32] right [11:32] go mediawiki [11:33] the other thing that bugs me is getting from any special page back the page it is about [11:33] ok burgs it is hidden I agree, but you really should make sure you know stuff like that before going around deleting pages [11:33] mediawiki has a link called aricle [11:33] mdke, sorry about that, but that is total bollocks where it puts it [11:33] Burgundavia, i agree, but still, if you're gonna do drastic work, read the docs man [11:34] yes [11:34] it is just a wiki === Mez [~Mez@cpc2-lich4-3-0-cust115.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:34] if I need to read a documenation about how to use it, that is completely broken [11:34] i agree [11:35] but still, i warned you about backlinks a few times [11:35] I thought I knew what I was doing [11:35] I found a semi useful link [11:35] ok well np [11:35] we can fix the broken links === Burgundavia grumbles about stupid broken shit === mdke_ [~matt@81-178-92-192.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke_ presses wrong button === mdke_ is now known as mdke [11:37] Burgundavia, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHowCome has escaped the flaming sword? :p [11:38] haven't got to it yet [11:38] ;) [11:38] don't worry, there is lots to burn through before then [11:38] when i saw it, i read "HowToCome" [11:38] lmao === Burgundavia now has to decide whether to sleep for 4 hours or just stay up [11:39] thats a pretty big wiki page [11:39] indeed [11:39] the author is quite a nice guy [11:39] just needed to be guided in the correct direction [11:39] theres gotta be some useful stuff there :) [11:39] what do I do with these lovely Moin installation docs? [11:40] they cannot stay where they are, due to misleading names [11:41] you can't edit them afaik [11:41] what!!! [11:41] lemme read your email [11:41] you are right [11:41] I cannot [11:41] hmm my breezy test-bed pc needs 550 mb to upgrade from warty to breezy === Burgundavia goes with his sword to hunt down hendrik [11:42] all the HelpOn pages are moin related [11:43] yes === jsgotangco avoids the wiki stuff as much as possible [11:43] I still hate our wiki [11:43] if you don't want to remove them, maybe rename them to MoinEtcEtc or something [11:43] but, like any ugly child, it still needs love [11:43] yes [11:43] it needs a bitch slap [11:44] rob^, I don't want them to die, they just need to move [11:44] maybe we can make a subpage under /Moin/ [11:44] Burgundavia, yeah, so if you rename them people wont get confused [11:44] but all the links will need redoing i think [11:44] yeah :P [11:44] that cannot be that many [11:44] does the moin sandbox still exist [11:45] yes [11:45] MoinSandbox, I think [11:45] either that or WikiSandbox [11:46] how about FindPage [11:46] and HelpForBeginners [11:46] there are millions of help pages [11:46] well, not millions obviously [11:46] well those are the basic Moin help pages... [11:46] HelpContents is the index [11:46] I am also thinking about a standard page name for installation of programs [11:46] Burgundavia, the problem is you have to deal with all the language variants of the HelpPages too [11:47] yes [11:47] I am well aware of that [11:47] see HelpForBeginners is still standard Moin help [11:47] heh [11:47] it also needs to move [11:47] i dunno [11:47] moin has no bloody namespaces [11:47] i still believe that linking is the way forward [11:47] like Moin:Blah [11:48] upstream rejected my idea of adding them as "a hack" === Burgundavia thinks upstream doesn't understand presentation wikis [11:48] nice...the whole ubuntu moin wiki still has all the moin help pages... [11:49] of course, you don't think it should? [11:49] mdke, not all [11:49] I don't mind the moin help pages [11:49] I just want them clearly labelled as Moin pages [11:50] but then, those pages are really useless in a security sense... [11:50] jsgotangco, but how do users learn about how the wiki works? [11:50] do you think ProgramInstallation or InstallingProgram is a better default? [11:51] mdke, you make a page like this --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Introduction [11:51] mdke, like i said, some pages are pretty useless for end users as they pertain mostly to Moin backend config and ACLs [11:51] linked from FrontPage [11:52] jsgotangco, but they might be useful to some, so why remove them? do they do harm to others? [11:52] email sent to Hendrik about moving those Moin installation pages [11:52] mdke, in a stricter sense, it does not jive with overall Ubuntu wiki documentation hence there should at least be a way to classify them [11:53] mdke, in our "main namespace", there should only be docs that pertain to Ubuntu [11:53] and other Ubuntu related stuff [11:53] HelpOnUpdatingPython for example...is very much a Moin issue rather than a Python issue [11:54] those pages are not linked on UserDocumentation [11:54] Burgundavia, there are a lot more than docs in our main namespace [11:54] they may not be, but it doesn't mean its not there :) [11:54] mdke, they can be found via search [11:55] mdke, that is why I killed those InstallationTutorial pages [11:55] read my email [11:55] https://wiki.ubuntu.com//FrontPage?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=python&titlesearch=Titles [11:55] which are you going to choose? === mdke shrugs [11:55] i'll choose them all and see which one helps [11:55] ouch [11:56] that is a lot of clicking and reading [11:56] i use linux, i'm always clicking and readings :D [11:56] I really want to move non-docs off our wiki [11:56] I have raised this idea before, but got no support [11:56] non docs? [11:56] heck we better prepare a lot of pitchforks for that [11:56] so developments stuff, motu stuff, userpages? [11:56] the udu wiki exists [11:56] lets use it === Burgundavia curses the lack of namespace support [11:57] mediawiki has a nice feature [11:57] Burgundavia is not User:Burgundavia [11:57] yeah the namespace really organizes a lot of stuff [11:57] rejected by upstream as a hack [11:57] fools [11:58] thats why i recommended a client to use mediawiki instead for information stuff [11:58] much better for what we are trying to do [11:58] Why did we settle on Moin in the first place? [11:58] shawarma, we didn't choose the wiki [11:58] Ubuntu loves python and moin is python [11:58] generally, its a Python application [11:58] moin is faster than mediawiki [11:58] Oh, right. [11:59] media is also evil PHP [11:59] I forget: What were we using before? [11:59] Zwiki, more shite [11:59] Oh, right. [11:59] that had even less features, if that is possible [11:59] *G* [11:59] Burgundavia, the udu wiki is merging with our wiki [11:59] ditto edubuntu [12:00] seriously? === Burgundavia cries [12:00] yes [12:00] mark's call [12:00] we really really need namespaces [12:00] segregate all the developer stuff to Developer: [12:01] we could use subpages for that [12:01] can we move them all a subpage of Developers ? [12:01] or Development [12:01] it is possible, but I have a hunch that we don't [12:01] don't/won't [12:02] hehehe..even gentoo uses mediawiki... [12:02] yes [12:02] so does the hula-project [12:02] yeah [12:02] they are also looking into wiki<-->docbook stuff [12:02] very seriously [12:02] isnt that what Nat was pushing for? [12:03] he is working with the hula team [12:03] no idea what capacity [12:03] and the mediawiki people are willing to jump to python, if someone codes for them [12:03] they are seriously shortstaffed [12:03] i have a hula live account but it doesnt do pop [12:03] just smtp [12:04] without jumping engines, how can we solve our "too many on one wiki" issue? [12:05] can we realisitically ask all to move all the development stuff to subpages? [12:06] IMHO, no [12:06] i really don't think there is a need [12:07] you can ask them to make intuitive names for pages of course [12:07] categories can help [12:07] can we have subcategories? [12:08] ie, can I move the category MOTU to be under development? [12:08] also the category archive [12:08] hmmm interesting we have a Matthew East in docteam and there's a Matthew West in the Learn Linux project :) === highvolt1ge [~Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:17] see you all in a few hours, i'm going to drop by the grocer first... [12:23] oh crap [12:23] stupid god damn CamelCase [12:31] should I move WithFloppies to FromFloppies, to be consistent? === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvolt1ge [~Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvolt2ge [~Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [~mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:23] hi everyone [02:23] salut mpt [02:23] hi Burgundavia, did anything work? [02:23] haven't tried it [02:23] my life is a total disaster right now [02:24] http://mirrors.sourcecontrol.net/mpt@myrealbox.com/help--0/ [02:24] What's up? Anything that can be helped from outside? [02:24] about the only good news I have heard all week is that I am getting a free laptop, courtesy of your boss [02:24] yes, a job would be nice, but canonical has already said no [02:24] heh, cool [02:25] my local lug wants me to give a presentation on Ubunut next meeting [02:25] What did you ask to do? [02:25] (for Canonical) [02:25] bug traige, docs, usability [02:25] anyone know of a good ubuntu style OOo template? [02:26] Burgundavia: Hmm, well we have quite a few volunteers for all those things :-) [02:26] wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations might have something [02:26] thanks Burgundavia [02:26] mpt, enrico used to do one day a week of wiki gardening === mpt mirrors up [02:27] the spare time I have, I have been dumping into the wiki [02:28] thereby disproving any claim that you need to be paid :-/ [02:28] not really [02:29] if I was paid, I could do a lot more work [02:29] trus [02:29] true, even [02:29] Will you have time to look at the archive before the meeting? [02:29] and the wiki does need it [02:29] sure, will look now [02:31] thanks [02:34] the only major issue that I see right off the bat is length of the headings [02:34] yelp hides the end [02:35] Yes, there's a lot of yelp tweaks I haven't found out how to do yet [02:35] one of the things I want to do is hide the ToC frame [02:36] I thought would do that, but it got ignored [02:36] and resulted in the whole document being rendered as a single page === highvolt1ge [~Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [~jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:19] doc meeting today right? [03:19] yep, 40 minutes [03:20] well if i'm not too busy at work it will be the first one i'm actually at :) === Burgundavia grumbles about it being 6:20am here and he is listening to tango [03:21] bummer about it being early for you [03:21] hey, 22UTC is 7am for Jerome [03:21] burgundavia you are in the us? [03:21] Canada, west coast [03:21] ah [03:22] jjesse, where are you? [03:22] Michigan US [03:22] so Eastern TIme zone [03:22] ok [03:25] hey, what is the name of the guy who founded Ubuntu again? [03:25] Mark Shuttleworth [03:26] the rich thawe dude [03:26] we need a common about Ubuntu section [03:26] that we can paste into docs [03:26] Hes the guy who went up in space, right? [03:26] correct [03:26] cool [03:26] this presento is comming along.. [03:27] oh, you are doing a presentation for your lug [03:27] yeah [03:27] I did one for LinuxFestNorthWest [03:27] not bad [03:27] they want to use Ubuntu for an installfest comming up [03:27] on software freedom day [03:27] cool [03:27] OOOO [03:27] my lug still uses FC [03:28] poor bastards who get that [03:28] so does mine [03:28] but I convinced them otherwise [03:28] and they wanted to know more, so yeah.. [03:47] https://shipit.ubuntulinux.org/ <-- wtf [03:47] ok then [03:47] I remember that old wiki === rob^ gets coffee [04:00] MEETING TIME [04:00] Who's here? === highvolt1ge is Jonathan Carter === highvoltage too [04:01] two people? :-) [04:01] the rest will come [04:03] three people! [04:04] Is that a quorum? [04:04] w00t! [04:05] mpt, we meet in #ubuntu-meeting [04:05] ah [04:08] mdke, you there? === jsgotangco [~jgotangco@141-nas1.dial-pool.digitelone.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jeffsch [~jeffsch@fatwire-202-75.uniserve.ca] has joined #Ubuntu-doc === jsgotangc1 [~jgotangco@80-nas1.dial-pool.digitelone.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangc1 is now known as jgotangco === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [~Jono@196.25.192.240] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mvirkkil [~mvirkkil@vipunen.hut.fi] has joined #ubuntu-doc === uniq [charlie@3ffe:80ee:31fe:0:0:0:0:33] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Mez [~Mez@cpc2-lich4-3-0-cust115.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [~mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:18] mpt, welcome back === jsgotangco [~jgotangco@99-nas1.dial-pool.digitelone.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:30] so umm yeah [05:33] yeah? [05:34] I dunno [05:34] time for bed I think, its 130am [05:34] jsgotangco, did you do a summary for the jul 14th meeting? [05:34] umm I don't think anyone did it did they? [05:34] hmmm i have it somewhere over here but i haven't posted it either... [05:35] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeamMeetingSummary7?action=edit [05:35] these 2 weeks are rather busy on my part [05:35] that is what it should be [05:35] I will make my summary 8 [05:35] alright, ill post it later === jiyuu0 [~jiyuu0@219.95.213.19] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ealden [~ealden@219.90.92.176] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:40] well that sucks, breezy broke my ssh x forwarding :( [05:45] indeed it does [05:45] fudge it === rob^ thinks he might have found a work around [05:54] rob^, you want to email about the yelp main page stuff as well? [05:55] yeah, I'll do in in a while, going to get some sleep first [05:55] sure [05:55] the summary is going out in a few minutes [05:56] good :) [05:56] I'll refer to that [05:56] fix if you see things I left out [05:56] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeamMeetingSummary8?action=show [06:01] man locales are so messed up in breezy atm [06:02] night all === mpt [~mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:05] ... back === Seveas [~seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:17] ok guys later..good night === enrico_ [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:17] hmm [06:17] btw [06:17] baz can happen anytime [06:17] its just waiting for us [06:17] night [06:18] So, what did I miss? === carstenh [~carstenh@p54A60674.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:30] hi, how do i add comments in a wiki, something like /* comment */ in c++? [06:31] use ## at the beginning of each comment line [06:31] jeffsch: and how do i comment out blocks? [06:32] ok, then i will use ## to comment out a block, thanks a lot [06:32] i don't think you can comment out blocks :( === venda [~sean@ndn-165-149-83.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:35] jeffsch: i used ## for this block, thanks a lot again. === jjesse [~jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === karlheg [~karlheg@host-250-237.resnet.pdx.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt finishes reading the meeting log + minutes [07:36] https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/products/ubuntu-help === venda [~sean@ndn-165-149-83.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [08:05] why can't ubuntu get their certificates setup correctly :) sick of warnings :) [08:05] heh [08:05] Not just certificates, but also domain names [08:05] Compare and contrast: [08:05] http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadIntegration [08:06] https://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadIntegration [08:07] https://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadIntegration doesn't exist [08:07] it did a week ago [08:07] the point is, they're different pages on different sites [08:08] that's silly [08:08] https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/products/ubuntu-help/+series/trunk is there a "more" cause its taking forever to loa [08:08] load [08:08] nothing interesting [08:08] it's quite embarrassing, really [08:09] Launchpad is based around managing code in Bazaar [08:09] but *currently*, it lets upstream developers register code that's in SVN, and code that's in CVS, but *not* code that's in Bazaar [08:09] that'll be fixed in the next month or two [08:10] That's why I put the URL in the description. [08:16] ah === carstenh [~carstenh@p54A60674.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #ubuntu-doc ["bye"] === littlepaul [~littlepau@p5084F79D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Mez [~Mez@cpc2-lich4-3-0-cust115.brhm.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc