[03:30] <AndyFitz> hey hey
[03:57] <AndyFitz> 3 minutes!!!! :)
[03:58] <volvoguy> should I start the drumroll? :)
[04:00] <AndyFitz> only if its a deep african sounding tom-stye drumroll
[04:00] <AndyFitz> ;)
[04:05] <volvoguy> if it's ok with everyone else, let's wait just a couple more minute in case there are some latecomers. 
[04:07] <AndyFitz> sure thing
[04:21] <volvoguy> ok. raise of hands.... who's here for the meeting? :-)
[04:23] <volvoguy> excellent. at the very least then, Andrew and I will talk about stuff and i'll summarize in an email to the list later. 
[04:25] <AndyFitz> okay so things to talk about  ( in no particular order )  are server,  wiki documentation, and the possibility of creating an ArtTeam metapackage
[04:26] <AndyFitz> also a site,     anything I missed ?
[04:26] <volvoguy> well, i was hoping to assign some specific icon converting tasks to people, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. 
[04:27] <AndyFitz> noted :-)
[04:28] <volvoguy> ok. server first... 
[04:28] <volvoguy> we still don't know what we're getting yet as far as hardware goes.
[04:30] <volvoguy> as far as the internal workings go, i've requested that CVS or some other versioning system be set up for us.
[04:30] <AndyFitz> thats fine,  are we aware what software configuration we'll need?    version control, art.gnome style site
[04:30] <AndyFitz> etc
[04:30] <volvoguy> hey, there's nick! welcome.
[04:30] <nicholaspaul> Good evening, sorry for my tardinee
[04:30] <nicholaspaul> (or bad spelling...thats tardiness!)
[04:30] <volvoguy> no prob. nick.
[04:30] <AndyFitz> hi Nick
[04:30] <nicholaspaul> hey Andy
[04:31] <volvoguy> it's hard to say what kind of website we're going to do, but i've been talking to the art.gnome.org guys and personally i'd like to see us using their website code for our site.
[04:32] <AndyFitz> hi jdub
[04:32] <volvoguy> howdy jdub.
[04:32] <jdub> yo
[04:32] <AndyFitz> volvoguy,  yes, from what I've heard from thos the code is fairly extensible for our purposes as an official ubuntu art presentation site
[04:33] <nicholaspaul> a uniform identity... great idea.
[04:33] <AndyFitz> volvoguy, do we know that we are getting our own server or will we be sharing the software configuration with other ubuntu sites ?
[04:34] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, agreed. they're also working on a SOAP powered backend thing that will allow any Linux art sites that want to use it, to share data between each other.
[04:34] <AndyFitz> thats very good, official ubuntu artwork can go upsteam in gnome faster :)
[04:35] <volvoguy> that may be a little ways off, but it'll also be tied into the "gnome-art" application. kind of like synaptic for artwork.
[04:35] <AndyFitz> not that all art.gnome stuff ends up in a gnome package
[04:36] <AndyFitz> so will we be keeping our documentation or creating artwork on the wiki ?
[04:37] <volvoguy> i'm assuming we'll keep all our internal development stuff in CVS, keep track of schedules with a webdav enabled calendar or something, and then the public facing website will be open to everyone that wants to submit artwork.
[04:37] <volvoguy> i think for the most part, our documentation can stay on the main Ubuntu wiki. 
[04:38] <volvoguy> is there anything you can think of that we'd want to keep OFF the main Ubuntu wiki?
[04:39] <nicholaspaul> our paychecks? (sorry) !!:D
[04:39] <jdub> AndyFitz: highly likely that you'd be running this stuff on a sponsored linode
[04:39] <volvoguy> nicholaspaul, just for that, i'm cutting your paycheck in half! :)
[04:40] <nicholaspaul> great... i'll tell my kids they cant eat tomorrow !!
[04:40] <nicholaspaul> (ok i'll be serious!)
[04:40] <volvoguy> jdub, i'm not familiar with linode. is that some sort of co-located arrangement?
[04:41] <AndyFitz> in my mind there are only two areas by which we want to restrict stuff.    what icons end up in our repository and what we display as official artworks
[04:41] <nicholaspaul> is the list of artists involved going to be closed after a while? how is this list managed?
[04:42] <jdub> volvoguy: virtual hosting via UML
[04:42] <AndyFitz> keeping the wiki free-flowing is a good idea in my opinion.   but it would be really nice to have the site describe the definitive ways to help out and the methods involved
[04:42] <volvoguy> IMHO, i think those two things can stay in our versioning system and discussed/voted on in meetings or via email.
[04:43] <volvoguy> jdub, gotcha. thanks.
[04:44] <AndyFitz> it would be good to have a quick response to submissions that don't suit the project.   especially if the artwork is good but not suitable .  ( we need to refer artists to openclipart.org and encourage them to try again with knowledge of our documentation.
[04:45] <volvoguy> the official stuff really wouldn't need to be in the art.gnome.org side of the site - unless someone wanted to maintain it there for people using older releases or *gasp* another distro.
[04:46] <AndyFitz> the quicker we get back to artists, the more inspired we keep them.  ( imagine if an amazingly talented illustrator is using inkscape for the first time and decides to spend the weekend creating assets for us )
[04:46] <volvoguy> i could be wrong, but i don't really envision the public side of the website as a way to submit official artwork.
[04:46] <nicholaspaul> i would like to see a set order of critique too, or a set of standards that we are adhering to
[04:46] <AndyFitz> volvoguy:  it is a good way ,  if there is someone willing to review those submissions
[04:47] <AndyFitz> and we can technically do these submissions without too much wasted effort 
[04:47] <AndyFitz> nicholaspaul:  that is a very good point
[04:47] <volvoguy> so perhaps a couple of admins that could "promote" a user-submitted piece to something official?
[04:48] <AndyFitz> gnome has its own human interface guidelines ( that it loosely adheres to )    there are a few differences for the purpose of our work that might require us to publish our own hig 
[04:48] <AndyFitz> effectively only rewrite our version for the icon section of the gnome HIG
[04:49] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, i don't see a problem with that if the rest of the project agrees. any comments jdub?
[04:50] <nicholaspaul> am i right in thinking that most of the work righ now is just redrawing/tidying up and doesnt require creative input?
[04:51] <AndyFitz> the only differences are palette and the tricks required to use it properly with svg ,  also the max  number of visually separate objects per icon
[04:51] <volvoguy> i would think that the whole "promotion to something official" stuff would need to be controlled by an admin. a checkbox for "consider for official artwork" might get abused.
[04:52] <AndyFitz> nicholaspaul,  yes the majority of the work will be cleanup and composition work
[04:53] <nicholaspaul> thats good - a great way to get accustomed wiht the whole project.
[04:53] <volvoguy> nicholaspaul, that's the kind of work that needs to get done for the Breezy release. the artwork website (while still important) is almost a separate project. 
[04:54] <nicholaspaul> oh. I'm easily confused, sorry. 
[04:54] <volvoguy> so Andrew, could our HIG modifcations be added to our IconGuide on the wiki?
[04:55] <AndyFitz> volvoguy,  I agree that we need a review process for all artwork.  thats why we need to well document and provide as many reasons to not 'promote' artwork as we can.  we need to keep everyone knowing that they can get their work in when it suits the rules and vision documented.
[04:56] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, agreed. that sounds good to me. so we should start an official "ubuntu artwork guidelines" wiki page. 
[04:56] <AndyFitz> volvoguy,  yes  the IconGuide should be much more detailed.    as you know I don't have time to feed myself and do all the things I want with the ArtTeam ;-)
[04:57] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, yep. totally understandable. that's a page i want to work on myself - within my own physical restrictions of course.
[04:58] <AndyFitz> yes,  it should be really easy for an admin to throw a few URL's back at submitting artists explaining what they need to do to make their stuff visually suitable.  
[04:58] <AndyFitz> sadly, there's no easy way we can check that they are using our palette  ( well there is but I'll discuss if its technically possible later on )
[04:58] <volvoguy> a general "official artwork guidelines" page could cover everything though - icons, themes, backgrounds - and what is and isn't acceptable for the main distro. 
[04:59] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, yes. sounds good to me. 
[05:00] <volvoguy> ok. so we can't really do much right now as far as the public website goes, so let's concentrate on beefing up our documentation on the wiki for now.
[05:00] <AndyFitz> lets pull as many things from the gnome hig to rationalise from as possible.  things like " no severed limbs performing actions with objects "   I've been burnt by that one a few times
[05:01] <volvoguy> yikes. 
[05:01] <volvoguy> yes. let's make that a rule. lol.
[05:01] <nicholaspaul> great. I have to start from scratch AGAIN..
[05:02] <volvoguy> *smacks Nick*
[05:02] <volvoguy> oh. and no violence either. :)
[05:03] <nicholaspaul> Owee...
[05:03] <AndyFitz> I have a silly question that id like to make public just to be fair
[05:04] <nicholaspaul> I'm glad someone else is opening the 'silly question 'can cos i have loads of them . 
[05:04] <volvoguy> so besides still waiting for our server and setting that up with something like art.gnome.org, we need to work on more detailed tasks to be done on the wiki, as well as setting up general guidelines for submitted artwork.
[05:04] <volvoguy> go for it Andy.
[05:04] <AndyFitz> I'm determined to include .. well 'sneak' a unicorn somewhere in the icon set ( even if its in a rare mimetype )  .  
[05:04] <AndyFitz> but I realise this would open the flood gates to other artists to want to do similar 
[05:04] <nicholaspaul> unicorn and a badger... ok .. i'm not sure where this is goig. 
[05:05] <nicholaspaul> is there a family of animals that we can and cant include?
[05:05] <AndyFitz> let alone the fact that a unicorn could be seen as some kind of fantasy unholy   whatever   ( like what happened to the harry potter books )
[05:06] <volvoguy> (not that i'm opposed), but what's your reasoning for that, and why would that be an issue?
[05:06] <nicholaspaul> hmm.. perhaps we ought to leave a large margin around anything even remotely controversial.
[05:06] <nicholaspaul> - just like an african mask logo 
[05:06] <volvoguy> i don't have an issue with unicorns in general, as long as there's a reason behind it's use.
[05:06] <AndyFitz> it is a dorky thing but somewhere along the way I mentioned to my chickie that I would at least try to justify it.   ( how about I do it and see who complains )   this will be the only silly thing I do  so we'll see who / if anyone complains
[05:07] <nicholaspaul> lol no complaints here
[05:07] <volvoguy> it's ok with me. especially if it's incorporated in some witty and/or creative way. 
[05:07] <nicholaspaul> Now, if the Unicorn was a republican....
[05:07] <AndyFitz> hehe
[05:07] <volvoguy> *smack*
[05:08] <nicholaspaul> i have to learn to duck. 
[05:08] <nicholaspaul> (and i said i'd be serious....!!)
[05:08] <volvoguy> don't worry folks. i tend to type "smack" quite often when talking to Nick personally. :)
[05:08] <nicholaspaul> he does.. i'm used to the abuse. 
[05:09] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, as far as other artwork is concerned, i guess we'll just have to take it on a case by case basis.
[05:09] <AndyFitz> all good if nick has no problem with it,  however I'm sure one day he'll modify xchat to reply /me ducks automatically ;)
[05:09] <volvoguy> we're both IRC newbies. we haven't learned all the commands yet. :)
[05:09] <AndyFitz> volvoguy,  yes thats the best way.     mind if I mention how we can enforce palette control in svg   just for the technicall minded )
[05:10] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, sure. shoot. 
[05:10] <nicholaspaul> thats what you think... i havent shown you my IRC client that i built to control my toaster did i.. 
[05:10] <volvoguy> haha!
[05:10] <nicholaspaul> *nick is absent
[05:10] <volvoguy> i did mention this was a casual non-official meeting, right?
[05:11] <nicholaspaul> phewee!
[05:11] <nicholaspaul> hi i'm back, what did i miss?
[05:11] <nicholaspaul> AndyFitz, a set pallete is a great idea. 
[05:11] <AndyFitz> this may get messy to enforce but ....  the tricks used to change brightness, saturation of colours in the palette  do not affect the hexidecimal of the colour in the xml
[05:11] <nicholaspaul> oh?
[05:12] <nicholaspaul> (ducks out of habit)
[05:12] <AndyFitz> however artists can include any shade of white - black  in an icon without playing dirty tricks with opacity.    so that means we can't just say in a script " if the hex isnt one of these colors so don't validate it "
[05:12] <nicholaspaul> any shade of FFFFFF? sweet.
[05:12] <AndyFitz> but grey colours always have rgb triplets 
[05:13] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, right.
[05:14] <nicholaspaul> so far, we have a standard pallete, an HIG we can use.. 
[05:14] <AndyFitz> so if there is a way we can look at the svg xml  and search for all #xxxxxx  strings of text  and chekc that it matches a colour in the palette  OR is a triplet of the same value  ( not #XXYYZZ  but #YYYYYY or even #XYXYXY )
[05:15] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, are semi-opaque objects not recommended in icons?
[05:15] <AndyFitz> we can make a validator to enforce palette conformance to the hig
[05:15] <nicholaspaul> what about gradients, AndyFitz?
[05:16] <volvoguy> that definitely sounds like a good idea, if we have someone capable of creating such a validator. 
[05:16] <AndyFitz> nick, gradients are defined in the xml by stops of colours in hex ( those stops should be from the palette )
[05:16] <nicholaspaul> oh ok, sorry didnt realise. 
[05:16] <nicholaspaul> (not being an XML god or goddess)
[05:17] <AndyFitz> its wise to keep our svg xml clean by using only  palette colours  because we can then create derivatives much more easily
[05:18] <volvoguy> right. search and replace all of this color with that color in this directory of SVG files. simple in theory. :)
[05:18] <nicholaspaul> I like that idea. Nothing uglier than a w--i-d-e pallette
[05:19] <AndyFitz> then we can go       black and white icon theme ? no worries ,   uber high colour theme  ... using only pink ... sure thing.. 
[05:19] <volvoguy> i vote that there be no pink iconthemes in ubuntu. :)
[05:19] <nicholaspaul> a pink unicorn... 
[05:20] <nicholaspaul> LOL 
[05:20] <AndyFitz> volvoguy,  that goes without saying..  
[05:20] <nicholaspaul> i vote for a pink theme entitled Goddess.
[05:20] <AndyFitz> volvoguy,  arent you meant to be slapping right now ?
[05:20] <nicholaspaul> *duck*
[05:20] <AndyFitz> lol
[05:21] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, one thing i've been meaning to ask. are you responsible for the initial creation of all the "Humility" icons, or is that open to others as well?
[05:21] <nicholaspaul> you gots gotta learn...
[05:21] <nicholaspaul> (guys)
[05:21] <volvoguy> heh.
[05:22] <AndyFitz> volvoguy, there have been some great illustrations submitted that just need a little bit of work to fit with the style.  id like this responsability to be shared
[05:22] <AndyFitz> responsibility 
[05:23] <AndyFitz> where is my manners  ( where is my gtkspell )
[05:23] <volvoguy> hehe.
[05:23] <nicholaspaul> hehe!
[05:23] <nicholaspaul> are there any projects that need submissions?
[05:24] <volvoguy> so there will be some SVG cleaning-up to be done in addition to the SVG to PNG conversions. are people currently sending you these illustrations Andy, or are you just talking about things you've seen around the 'net?
[05:24] <AndyFitz> we have to cover the desktop calendar wallpapers,  usplash  gdm,  gnome-splash,   OOo splash,  and other apps like abiword gnumeric, gaim anjuta ( whatever we have time for )
[05:25] <AndyFitz> but I'm  thinking that if we do this first we may never get enough of the icons out of the way
[05:26] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, now for the question that might be hard to answer without a versioning control system... how do we know who's working on what?
[05:26] <AndyFitz> I intend to post a splash template on the wiki for disucssion.  ( I also intend to get back to work )  lol
[05:26] <AndyFitz> volvoguy,  yes this server needs to be chased up with top priority
[05:27] <AndyFitz> aaron,  if you could winge some more maybe stuff will happen for us.  I don't know what the hold-up is at the moment
[05:27] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, ok. i'll follow up with Jane again about the server. Perhaps jdub could put some polite pressure on too? :)
[05:27] <nicholaspaul> templates.. great idea. Giving the world free reign to make 'anything' for a splash . some people will spend weeks on one drawing and get their feelings hurt. 
[05:27] <jdub> is this just for running the art site?
[05:28] <AndyFitz> jdub,  we need this pretty badly ,  for running a repository to manage the icons  and keep them current
[05:28] <nicholaspaul> i'm just really concerned about standards for accepting art . Not because i'm afraid the stds will slip, but that people will get upset that their gems arent accepted
[05:28] <volvoguy> jdub, we have two server requirements (probably on the same machine) - CVS (or similar) for keeping track of official artwork, and a webserver for an ubuntu-specific "art.gnome.org" type site.
[05:29] <volvoguy> documentation can really just stay on the main wiki. i don't think there's any reason we need a separate wiki.
[05:29] <jdub> AndyFitz and i have already talked about the icons repository - we'll just use baz
[05:29] <AndyFitz> nicholaspaul,  yes thats why we are so lucky to have openclipart
[05:30] <nicholaspaul> clipart? 
[05:30] <nicholaspaul> :|
[05:31] <AndyFitz> in my geeky (semi-accedemic but not really) mind.  once a human touches a canvas anywhere in anyway  it is immediately  useful to someone else.  its just hard discovering that audience and how to get it there
[05:31] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, and also, the public art website can contain more than just official artwork. there's definitely going to be plenty of places for people to showcase their work.
[05:31] <AndyFitz> openclipart.org would make alot of use from assets that are created but don't suit the nature or style of our icons
[05:32] <volvoguy> nicholaspaul, openclipart.org is also, IMHO, better quality artwork than you'd see on the 99 cents rack at a computer store.
[05:33] <nicholaspaul> phew... well, your stamp of approval is good enough in my books
[05:34] <nicholaspaul> so will one person work on a general idea and let others flesh out the details?
[05:34] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, jdub, i'm not familiar with baz. can you two work on making that happen and then explain the details to the group when it's ready?
[05:34] <nicholaspaul> i just have visions of a Group Show exhibition..(shudder!)
[05:34] <jdub> yes
[05:34] <volvoguy> great. thanks!
[05:36] <volvoguy> nicholaspaul, as far as the icons go, I think they should all get Andrews blessing (as well as the group as a whole if it comes to that). 
[05:37] <volvoguy> we don't have a protocol in place as of yet for reviewing other artwork - backgrounds, etc.
[05:37] <nicholaspaul> ok cool.i feel better now that a pink unicorn will not appear unexpectedly on my desktop
[05:38] <volvoguy> i'm confident that Andrew has better taste than that. :)
[05:38] <AndyFitz> I think before we officially start accepting icons this documentation should be done.  people deserve good reasons for rejections as well as the encouragement by tutorials that there is a way they can contribute
[05:40] <nicholaspaul> yup, good point AndyFitz. in my experience, with any artwork, people have to learn to let go before they can accept criticism. Scary area...
[05:40] <AndyFitz> volvoguy,   I'll probably include it in some obscure mimetype like .s3m tracked module audio  or amiga ROM  or something.   honestly eastereggs are fun but I'm happy to not do it should any conflict arise
[05:40] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, since you're probably the most knowledgable about icon design and HIG's, could you make up a rough draft for that? i can even move it over to the wiki if you only have time to email it to me.
[05:41] <volvoguy> AndyFitz, no - please do it. I'm looking forward to trying to find it now. :)
[05:41] <AndyFitz> volvoguy,  good thing we are such friendly people.  
[05:41] <AndyFitz> I have to go but before I go ill mention what I  see as the process flow of a user coming to the project and wanting to help out 
[05:42] <nicholaspaul> Ladies and Gentlemen, i'm having to attend to other responsibilities at this time and will bid you all goodnight/good morning.
[05:42] <AndyFitz> night nick, take care mate
[05:42] <nicholaspaul> thanks Andy - you too. 
[05:43] <volvoguy> g'night Nick!
[05:43] <nicholaspaul> nite Volvokid 
[05:43] <volvoguy> wise guy. :)
[05:44] <volvoguy> go ahead with your process flow. 
[05:44] <AndyFitz> - user visits site
[05:44] <AndyFitz> - site explains the roles and ways to help out
[05:44] <AndyFitz> - user optionally installs the ArtTeam metapackage
[05:44] <AndyFitz> - user optionally downloads the latest respository image of icons / assets
[05:44] <AndyFitz> - does their thing 
[05:45] <AndyFitz> if its rejected they are pointed back to the ways to help out and the guidelines.  also referred to openclipart if their assets are more suitable for that project  ( by this , nobody is useless )
[05:46] <volvoguy> ok. first question. by "site" are you referring to our documentation on the wiki, or the public ubuntu art website?
[05:47] <AndyFitz> either.  the public ubuntu art site should have a 'how to help out link'  that refers them to the documentation
[05:48] <volvoguy> my understanding is that the public art site is going to be more of an "anything goes" site than a front-end to getting your artwork in the distro. i could be wrong though.
[05:48] <AndyFitz> the most important thing is that we help them get the tools , get the assets and make the submission process easier than comitting to cvs actually is.  ( this does mean we will have to review everything  but it should be public while we are revieing it in my opinion
[05:48] <volvoguy> so maybe the art site submission page SHOULD have an "i'd like this to be considered an official artwork submission" checkbox
[05:49] <AndyFitz> we both know that would be abused :-P
[05:50] <AndyFitz> just referring from the art site to the official ArtTeam project is enough
[05:50] <volvoguy> most likely, yes. it might be worth trying though if people are directed to the guidelines documentation at the same time.
[05:51] <volvoguy> ok. i'm sure you're right. :) 
[05:52] <AndyFitz> we should keep it as un-bureaucratic as possible .  the more hoops the harder
[05:52] <volvoguy> so I still should talk to Jane about getting the machine ready for this art website. 
[05:54] <AndyFitz> we need both the public art site  and the public ArtTeam presence.   only the ArtTeam will be closer linked to the wiki and be a gateway to using revision control, signing up to the mailing list and reading how to create official artwork / tracking what needs to be done
[05:55] <volvoguy> i agree. the quicker we can get some guidelines online, the better. do you think mirroring some of the Gnome HIG's would be a good start, or do we want to write our own from scratch?
[05:55] <jdub> volvoguy: could you cc me, and mention that the same host could be used for hosting the fridge? that'll save admin hassle.
[05:55] <jdub> we'd only need a human icon design addendum
[05:55] <volvoguy> jdub, "hosting the fridge". sure. i can pass that long. :)
[05:55] <jdub> wouldn't require molesting GNOME's HIG
[05:55] <AndyFitz> we should write our own from scratch.   I'm out of time  but there are important things we can get from the HIG ( that even gnome doesn't always adhere to )
[05:56] <volvoguy> ok Andrew. glad you could make it. sorry for eating up your whole lunch break. :)
[05:56] <jdub> AndyFitz: do you mean a different Ubuntu HIG, or an addendum for GNOME's HIG for our icon set design issues?
[05:57] <volvoguy> i'll pick jdub's brain for a while now. :)
[05:57] <AndyFitz> one is the use of text ( no text ever )  not even in mimetypes .   unless that text is a capital / lowercase  'A'  for a font icon
[05:57] <AndyFitz> jdub,  just the icon section of the gnome hig suited for ubuntu related artwork
[05:58] <jdub> AndyFitz: then probably best to talk about it as the human icon design brief or whatever, it's not a new HIG
[05:58] <volvoguy> yeah. sorry about that. i used "HIG' in the wrong context. i was referring more to the guidelines for official artwork submission.
[05:58] <AndyFitz> yeah I think it could be confusing calling it HIG  its got nothing to do with software design
[05:59] <volvoguy> right. HIG is something more official that i'll let you work out with jdub. i won't speak of it again. :)
[05:59] <AndyFitz> we'll call it    ubuntu designers' icon guidelines or  UDIG      you dig ?
[06:00] <volvoguy> heh. i dig. i mean UDIG.
[06:01] <AndyFitz> we all dig the UDIG
[06:01] <AndyFitz> in the icon review process : the UDIG digs.. AT YOU 
[06:02] <AndyFitz> I have to leave now guys.  my boss has been pretty generous with me . 
[06:03] <AndyFitz> thank you for your help.   jdub,  cheers for rocking by
[06:04] <volvoguy> jdub, i haven't received much direction from Jane except that i'm the interrum artwork coordinator and that a server is in the works. feel free to impart your guidance and wisdom with me if necessary.
[08:43] <miketech> hi
[03:20] <miketech> Hi
[03:58] <MartenH> better late then never.. hi :)
[03:58] <MartenH> only 40 minutes after you arrived, not to bad :p