[12:35] <transgress> what do i need to do to get apt to ignore non verified sources?
[12:36] <gdh> can you not just say 'y' when it asks about keys?
[12:37] <gdh> .
[12:37] <transgress> well i'm doing an apt-get update and it bitches, and doesn't update from it.  it's marillat
[12:39] <gdh> me too
[12:39] <gdh> there are docs on how to import marillat's key
[12:39] <gdh> I did it months ago. don't ask me, ask google :)
[12:40] <gdh> but yes it involves gpg :)
[12:46] <apokryphos> It's on the kudos guide
[12:46] <moparfan90> i just installed kde on ubuntu and now i cant login. help me!!
[12:47] <apokryphos> !gpg
[12:47] <ubotu> I guess gpg is at http://kudos.berlios.de/kf/kf1.html#h2add
[12:47] <apokryphos> moparfan90: it's the same user password
[12:48] <moparfan90> i know. it sys login in and then some other stuff then brings me back to login screen
[12:51] <moparfan90> i has the login screen. then i type my user name and password and it say loging in. then about 30 sec later it comes back to login screen.
[12:51] <moparfan90> what do i do??
[12:51] <apokryphos> moparfan90: the GDM login screen?
[12:51] <moparfan90> no kde
[12:52] <apokryphos> moparfan90: can you still login to gnome?
[12:52] <moparfan90> nope
[12:52] <moparfan90> theres an opion but t wont let me
[12:52] <persnickety> moparfan90, did you download kubuntu-desktop?
[12:52] <apokryphos> you can't login to anything...
[12:52] <nikkia> moparfan90: try resetting the session type to KDE in the session menu
[12:53] <moparfan90> yeah i did...     sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[12:53] <apokryphos> moparfan90: try switching back to GDM to see if it works then
[12:53] <nikkia> sometimes, very rarely, kdm gets confused and doesn't actually think the 'previous session' is anything real
[12:53] <apokryphos> nikkia: if it doesn't work for gnome as well though..
[12:53] <moparfan90> i have tried all the opion and the only way i can login is in console and thats no good for me
[12:54] <nikkia> apokryphos: hmmm
[12:54] <apokryphos> moparfan90: switch to GDM
[12:54] <moparfan90> i did still no work
[12:54] <apokryphos> moparfan90: in console type "sudo dpkg-reconfigure gdm" -- switch there, then restart x
[12:54] <moparfan90> oo
[12:54] <apokryphos> moparfan90: you tried switching to GDM or not?
[12:54] <moparfan90> i want to try kde... is there a better way to install then?
[12:55] <moparfan90> yes i have!
[12:55] <apokryphos> moparfan90: you can still login to KDE by doing that
[12:55] <moparfan90> how?
[12:55] <apokryphos> moparfan90: so you've done sudo dpkg-reconfigure gdm, are you sure?
[12:55] <apokryphos> moparfan90: from GDM
[12:55] <moparfan90> no not that
[12:55] <apokryphos> then you didn't try gdm, did you?
[12:55] <moparfan90> no
[12:55] <apokryphos> unless you did startgdm or whatever it is
[12:56] <moparfan90> i did change sessionnthin g
[12:56] <apokryphos> moparfan90: try it, see if you have the same problem
[12:56] <apokryphos> moparfan90: not session, this is the Login Manager
[12:56] <apokryphos> or "Display Manager" -- GDM: gnome display manager
[12:56] <moparfan90> then how do i get to kde if i want to try it??
[12:56] <apokryphos> moparfan90: it's only the display manager... you can use it to switch session to KDE
[12:57] <moparfan90> oo
[12:57] <apokryphos> you'll see once you do it
[12:57] <moparfan90> what do i type exactly?
[12:57] <apokryphos> moparfan90: once you're in console, sudo dpkg-reconfigure gdm
[12:57] <apokryphos> then select "GDM" there
[12:58] <moparfan90> ok
[12:58] <moparfan90> bye
[12:58] <moparfan90> have to restart
[12:58] <apokryphos> see ya
[12:58] <moparfan90> thanks
[01:07] <moparfan90> thatnks. thats worked
[01:10] <apokryphos> cool
[01:10] <apokryphos> moparfan90: you might consider updating to KDE 3.4.2 which would have the new KDM (though you don't have to use kdm)
[01:10] <moparfan90> how do i update?
[01:11] <apokryphos> !kde342
[01:11] <ubotu> methinks kde342 is at http://kubuntu.org/hoary-kde-342.php
[01:14] <nikkia> night apokryphos 
[01:14] <apokryphos> adieu nikkia :)
[01:15] <gdh> pff, faders.
[01:15] <gdh> Sounds like a riot.
[01:16] <nikkia> not really
[01:16] <nikkia> gdh, still, it does seem to be working
[01:16] <nikkia> if i plg my ipod in, i get a /dev/ipod pointing to whichever scsi device its appearing as
[01:16] <gdh> seems a logical setup :)
[01:16] <nikkia> which means that autofs can be pointed at /dev/ipod and thus i get /media/ipod :)
[01:17] <nikkia> which k3b
[01:17] <nikkia> oops
[01:21] <lscd> eh, udev rules are fun
[01:21] <nikkia> lscd, its such a painful system
[01:21] <lscd> hmm... howso/why?
[01:22] <lscd> some of the numbering seems to have silently changed in the last while, which is a pain, but other than that?
[01:22] <nikkia> lscd, the fact that there is no way to make it rescan a device, the fact that the rules processing seems to be counter-intuitive, ie, lowest rule stops higher rules operating, etc
[01:22] <lscd> hm.. the rules processing order makes sense to me, but perhaps i've just been infected by linux for too long
[01:23] <nikkia> lscd: i've been using linux for 13 years, and it doesn't strike me as logical :P
[01:23] <lscd> not being able to rescan devices sounds annoying; i guess it's outside the scope of udevstart?
[01:23] <lscd> nikkia: sure, hence infected ;)
[01:23] <nikkia> the problem is, it tries to look like a SysV init script system, but isn't even remotely
[01:23] <lscd> yeah
[01:24] <lscd> i guess i'm just used to arbitrary processing rules
[01:24] <nikkia> lscd: udevstart trashs the system here, it repopulates the ptys and every console/konsole/etc stops working
[01:25] <lscd> ahhh, it's been working for me, but i'm not on ubuntu (yet; i'm hoping to install it tonight, if i can get the silly box i want to do it on into decent enough shape early enough)
[01:25] <nikkia> i'm not on ubuntu *here* either
[01:25] <lscd> ah, what's here, and what udev version?
[01:25] <nikkia> here is a LFS system
[01:25] <lscd> ahhh
[01:26] <nikkia> and v063
[01:26] <lscd> my 'here' is a gentoo system with udev-058
[01:27] <nikkia> don't get me wrong, its better than /dev, and mildly better than devfs ...
[01:27] <lscd> yeah, agreed; but udevstart borking stuff sucks
[01:28] <nikkia> all it needs is something like udevinfo that actually *does* the rules rather than prints them
[01:28] <nikkia> erm, udevtest i mean
[01:28] <lscd> hmm
[01:28] <lscd> that would be cool
[01:29] <nikkia> some more elegant pattern matching and comparision wouldn't go amiss either :P
[01:30] <lscd> regex's, or?
[01:31] <nikkia> regex would be cool with me, yes
[01:31] <lscd> yeah... that would be nice, though i've never found myself needing that much power with it yet
[01:32] <i123i> hi
[01:32] <lscd> hi i123i 
[01:35] <_moparfan90> helo
[01:35] <_moparfan90> hello
[01:36] <_moparfan90> what do you think is better xchat or the kde irc??
[01:36] <_moparfan90> konversation
[01:36] <lscd> xchat, hands down
[01:36] <_moparfan90> me too
[01:36] <lscd> kde irc sucks
[01:36] <_moparfan90> yeah
[01:36] <_moparfan90> using it now. and its look bad too
[01:37] <ralph1> No way Konversation rulez
[01:37] <gdh> Konv is perfectly adequate :)
[01:37] <gdh> I can't think how xchat would be 'better' .
[01:37] <lscd> gdh: fair enough, it's adequate, and it has a lot of nice features
[01:37] <lscd> i just don't like it
[01:37] <gdh> (and I used it for months)
[01:37] <gdh> lscd: Is that not just human nature fearing change?
[01:37] <lscd> gdh: not really, no
[01:37] <_moparfan90> i like change
[01:37] <lscd> i've used quite a lot of irc clients
[01:37] <lscd> beos had some nice ones
[01:38] <_moparfan90> if its the same to long i change it to mess it up
[01:38] <gdh> They're all clones of AmIRC, anyway :)
[01:38] <brosio> how could install windows codec to see wmv films ?
[01:38] <_moparfan90> dont know
[01:38] <lscd> eh, wow, it's weird to be on a distro chan where i can't answer that, hehe ^-^
[01:39] <lscd> googling for win32codecs might get you started
[01:39] <gdh> brosio: apt-get install w32codecs - you need the marillat repositories
[01:39] <gdh> deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat stable main
[01:39] <gdh> also add testing + unstable if it's not in 'stable'
[01:39] <moparfan90_> hello. now using xchat... so much better
[01:39] <ralph1> boo hiss
[01:39] <moparfan90_> whats a good way to make kde look cooler?
[01:40] <gdh> moparfan90_: Don't sully it with GTK apps :)
[01:40] <gdh> boy did you walk into that one.
[01:40] <moparfan90_> why not
[01:40] <lscd> moparfan90_: well, there are themes and so forth; i like the original look with a few tweaks though, kde 3.2 on has been nice
[01:40] <lscd> moparfan90_: some people think they look inconsistant/ugly/etc; it doesn't really bother me
[01:40] <gdh> moparfan90_: the look-and-feel don't carry properly :)
[01:41] <brosio> thx
[01:41] <moparfan90_> can i get more themes?
[01:41] <lscd> yep
[01:41] <brosio> gdh, i'm using 
[01:41] <brosio> hoarty so it's stable ?
[01:41] <moparfan90_> yeah!!!
[01:41] <lscd> control center -> appearances and themes -> theme manager
[01:41] <gdh> brosio: marillat is really for Debian, but it works for ubuntu,too.
[01:42] <gdh> brosio: the 'stable' stuff won't mean much in this case.
[01:42] <lscd> kde-look.org may be worth a glance if you want something like that, moparfan90_ 
[01:42] <gdh> brosio: marillat really only carries the 'mostly free' packages
[01:42] <gdh> basically teh stuff debian won't take due to grey areas with licensing
[01:43] <gdh> christian marillat is a debian developer, so he knows what he's doing.
[01:46] <brosio> just a little question
[01:46] <brosio> http://ubuntuguide.org/#nvu
[01:46] <brosio> why nvu isn't in repository
[01:46] <gdh> no idea - I've never heard of it, even. :)
[01:47] <moparfan90_> ok big question... when i switch desktops.. 1,2,3,4 how do i make it so the programs open dont stay on the botton if your in an other desktop????
[01:48] <lscd> it's in the control center
[01:48] <nikkia> not everyone likes their panel at the bottom :P
[01:48] <lscd> nikkia: default position, so it's fair, especially if you don't know the term
[01:49] <moparfan90_> :p
[01:49] <moparfan90_> so what do i do?
[01:49] <lscd> moparfan90_: shortest way is to right-click on the panel
[01:49] <lscd> then, click taskbar, and unclick 'show windows from all desktops'
[01:49] <moparfan90_> ok thanks that did it. :0
[01:50] <moparfan90_> :)
[01:50] <lscd> np; i usually set that too
[01:50] <HopeSeekr> hello, I have a unique situation.  I use KDE and thus really want to upgrade from Gentoo to the latest Kubuntu; however, my mother uses Gnome ... she can't learn KDE at all, and thus I want to also install ubuntu ... is it possible to install ubuntu-like gnome ontop of kubuntu? :-/
[01:50] <gdh> HopeSeekr: Sure.
[01:51] <moparfan90_> have ubuntu an then install kde
[01:51] <moparfan90_> after
[01:51] <gdh> and better still you can easily select to have a KDE or GNOME session when you login
[01:51] <lscd> is there any reason not to install ubuntu, then use apt-get to get the kde bits as described on the kubuntu site?
[01:51] <moparfan90_> its easy
[01:52] <HopeSeekr> lscd link?
[01:52] <HopeSeekr> this would actually be preferable
[01:52] <HopeSeekr> i would rather i end up w/ any unsupported failures than her
[01:52] <lscd> http://kubuntu.org/faq.php
[01:52] <HopeSeekr> a simple unexpected msg box is enough to totally derail her online experience :-/
[01:53] <HopeSeekr> so i can just download the livecd and start from there
[01:53] <HopeSeekr> she needs it fast
[01:53] <lscd> HopeSeekr: if she's literate in the language you're using it in, and you can get her to be calm and read them, she should be able to deal with at least some (no offense intended, or anything)
[01:53] <lscd> HopeSeekr: afaik, but i'm at the same stage of using ubuntu as you are
[01:54] <HopeSeekr> nah, it's more a phobia...she sees error msg and goes, "O [mom v of shit]  I frecked up his computer!!" and turns it off
[01:55] <HopeSeekr> thank you all
[01:55] <HopeSeekr> you are most kind :-)
[01:55] <lscd> HopeSeekr: yeah, hence the calmness bit; a lot of people, especially the age of mothers of people old enough to be on irc, are like that
[01:55] <lscd> my mom used to be, but she's gotten a bit better
[01:56] <lscd> sitting next to them and going through it slowly can help
[01:57] <lscd> just time and seeing that it's normal, while someone they're confident has some clue of what's going on (whether or not that's actually true ^-^) is around, and going through and explaining, if they're willing to listen, can do a lot
[01:58] <HopeSeekr> man my grandmother
[01:58] <HopeSeekr> she was inspired by my mom
[01:58] <HopeSeekr> she, like my mom, spent almost a decade trying to figure out windows...
[01:59] <HopeSeekr> they can understand gnome just fine :o
[01:59] <lscd> eh, my grandmother [the one who uses computers]  has gotten quite decent
[01:59] <HopeSeekr> my 97 yr-old grandmother loves blogs :o
[01:59] <gdh> great :))
[01:59] <HopeSeekr> that's what got my mom started
[01:59] <HopeSeekr> now my mom uses voip :o
[01:59] <HopeSeekr> she found she could talk to all my siblings in diverse states/countries for free
[02:00] <lscd> and my mom's happily transitioned to kde; being able to use a 19" monitor and a dsl connection instead of win98 on a barely-working laptop and dialup is enough that  she likes kde better ;)
[02:00] <gdh> the best part of voip is when people have no idea they're using it :)
[02:00] <HopeSeekr> lscd THATS MY DAD!
[02:00] <lscd> HopeSeekr: your dad is my mom? eep ;)
[02:00] <HopeSeekr> my dad got so hooked on win98 he uses his decade-old 200mhz to this day :o
[02:00] <gdh> haha :)
[02:00] <gdh> where's Springer?
[02:01] <lscd> HopeSeekr: ahh, i've pretty much convinced my parents to get a mac to replace the (333 mhz) laptop they have atm, as its rtc has died, etc
[02:01] <pax> if she can't stand windows and likes gnome then she must be a natural. get her some linux books, maybe she'll start coding and attracting older people to ubuntu
[02:19] <HopeSeekr> pax: AHAHAHAHAH
[02:19] <HopeSeekr> pax: HAHAHAHAHAAH
[02:19] <HopeSeekr> tht'at gr8
[02:19] <HopeSeekr> except she cant type
[02:20] <HopeSeekr> it took her 1 1/2 hours to type a 175 char mesage :o
[02:21] <pax> HopeSeekr: gtypist will take care of that in no time :)
[02:22] <pax> the real risk in teching your grandma linux is for her to own your ass and maybe deny you your pr0n collection 
[02:22] <lscd> lol
[02:22] <moparfan90> ooo
[02:35] <BROKEN_LADDER> anyone know how options are supposed to be formatted in your mplayer config?
[02:38] <moparfan90> nope sorry
[02:41] <lscd> google for example ones
[02:50] <ralph1> hi all i need some help getting my scanner working. It is part of a HP psc 1315xi all in scanner printer. The usual command that I have used ptal-init setup is not found.
[02:53] <moparfan90> you people use mplayer... man use xmms thats so myuch better and it looks cooler too.
[02:54] <moparfan90> gota go
[02:54] <moparfan90> bye
[02:57] <lscd> ralph1: are  you using sane, or what?
[03:02] <ralph1> lscd: I was trying to use xsane and kooka, both see no scanner.
[03:03] <lscd> ok, what does running sane-find-scanner say?
[03:05] <ralph1> found USB scanner (vendor=0x03f0, product=0x3f11) at libusb:001:004
[03:05] <ralph1>   # Your USB scanner was (probably) detected. It may or may not be supported by
[03:05] <ralph1>   # SANE. Try scanimage -L and read the backend's manpage.
[03:05] <lscd> ok, so it's detected; that's good
[03:12] <lscd> what does scanimage -L say?
[03:15] <ralph1> lscd: no scanners identified. I just found a how to for this printer/scanner combo. Let me run through it and test then get back to you. There might be some packages missing. needing install.
[03:15] <lscd> ralph1: ahh, good luck!
[03:16] <nmorse> You know, Ubuntu is the first distro I've ever seen recognize a USB HID Joystick or Gamepad when it's plugged in.
[03:16] <nmorse> That f'ing rocks!
[03:16] <kalenedrael> cool
[03:16] <ralph1> lscd: Thanks for your help
[03:17] <lscd> np; i hope you get it working
[03:17] <lscd> nmorse: nice
[03:17] <kalenedrael> ubuntu detected my 1280x800 display and generated a custom mode line for it
[03:17] <web250> kalenedrael: same here, gave me a 1280*1024...nothing else did, not even knoppix
[03:18] <kalenedrael> 1280x800 is definitely one of the 'weirder' resolutions
[03:18] <web250> yup...you running a wide screen monitor, or you just like it weird?
[03:18] <kalenedrael> widescreen laptop
[03:19] <web250> very cool...dell 1704FPT  17" lcd here...just got it, its gorgeous
[03:19] <kalenedrael> not a 17" laptop, i hope
[03:19] <web250> no....im a desktop person...custom built
[03:19] <kalenedrael> ah
[03:19] <kalenedrael> yeah, i like laptops
[03:20] <web250> all my buds are getting them for college...im just like "nah, ill pass"
[03:20] <kalenedrael> laptops are convenient, though
[03:20] <kalenedrael> and they take up a lot less space than a desktop
[03:20] <web250> not much can beat my dekstop power wise...and im going linux full out soon, they look at me like im crazy
[03:20] <kalenedrael> yeah, i suppose
[03:20] <lscd> hehe.... yeah
[03:20] <lscd> a lot of people asked me 'why?!'
[03:20] <kalenedrael> but i have an athlon64 3200+ in this laptop
[03:20] <kalenedrael> why linux?
[03:20] <web250> the only major space issue was the monitor...thats why i got lcd
[03:21] <web250> i have a axp 2500+@3200+ in my desktop
[03:21] <kalenedrael> ah
[03:21] <kalenedrael> cool
[03:21] <kalenedrael> any special cooling?
[03:21] <web250> it was finally the right time for linux for me...
[03:21] <fidget> sigh .. i'm stuck with a lowly PIV 1.4 with 128 megs of ram 
[03:21] <web250> ya...80mm hsf, upgraded northbridge cooling
[03:21] <kalenedrael> i love linux
[03:21] <fidget> nothing BUT linux would run on this well =P
[03:22] <kalenedrael> i have a 166MHz pentium laptop with 32 megs
[03:22] <web250> ive been using linux since mandrake 8...and now its finally advacned enugh where i can run kubuntu 504 and have everything i need
[03:22] <kalenedrael> (next to me)
[03:22] <web250> well...except 1 thing
[03:22] <fidget> comand line?
[03:22] <kalenedrael> (it runs windows, since i play starcraft on it)
[03:22] <fidget> hahh!
[03:22] <fidget> nice
[03:22] <web250> gnomad has major problems in K/Ubuntu...so i cant sync my dell dj
[03:22] <fidget> I haven't played sc in forever 
[03:22] <fidget> zerg owned ; P
[03:23] <nmorse> I have Windows for Rome: Total War and The Bard's Tale.
[03:23] <nmorse> And the Neverwinter Nights toolset.
[03:23] <kalenedrael> i have windows on this laptop for... dicking around with BIOS settings
[03:23] <web250> kalenedreal: that laptop isnt that bad...i used a 100mhz 16mb ram, 800mb hdd the other day at work
[03:23] <fidget> my friend has an old apple ibook with yellow dog on it ..
[03:23] <fidget> very sweet ..
[03:23] <web250> windows 95 flew on it.......not
[03:24] <nmorse> I have 95 on a laptop like that.
[03:24] <nmorse> And it totally flies on it.
[03:24] <kalenedrael> i managed to make this laptop non-bootable after trying to modify the bios
[03:24] <gdh> web250: Don't suppose it was a toshiba satellite 110? :)
[03:24] <nmorse> Then again, there's nothing on it because it has no network access.
[03:24] <kalenedrael> apparently HP has some gay restriction on what miniPCI cards can be installed inside
[03:24] <web250> nmorse: i bet linux with a small windomanager would run better
[03:24] <nmorse> Probably, web250
[03:24] <nmorse> But I don't have a way to install it except for the floppy drive.
[03:24] <fidget> really? I didn't know HP did that...
[03:24] <web250> gdh: nope, it was a NEC actually
[03:24] <nmorse> And a whole distro on a floppy isn't easy.
[03:25] <gdh> web250: K =)
[03:25] <web250> i didnt even know that NEC made laptops..heheh
[03:25] <kalenedrael> haha, like every company makes laptops now
[03:25] <nmorse> I think mine's an old Dell.
[03:25] <nmorse> And my new one's an eMachines.
[03:25] <nmorse> I have too many old Dell computers.
[03:26] <nmorse> And only one of them runs well.
[03:26] <web250> i have one sitting next to me, dead on the floor
[03:26] <kalenedrael> dell >.<
[03:26] <nmorse> And old dual proc PPro server with 128MB RAM and a crapload of HDD's.
[03:26] <web250> its a customers...it died in my hands
[03:26] <kalenedrael> i hate dells
[03:26] <nmorse> s/And/An/
[03:26] <gdh> and really what is this laptop / notebook thing? all manufr.s refer to them as notebooks.. which is really a more appropriate name for a PDA...
[03:26] <nmorse> Their PowerEdge servers work fine for years.
[03:26] <kalenedrael> though i have one reason not to, which is that dell laptops do not have that gay restriction that HP, IBM and toshiba do
[03:26] <web250> notebook is appropriate for a pad of paper maybe
[03:26] <nmorse> Everything else though is that it is crap.
[03:27] <ubuntu> IBM OpenPower rocks!
[03:27] <nmorse> That sentence made no sense.
[03:27] <kalenedrael> ibm openpower?
[03:27] <ubuntu> check it out
[03:27] <kalenedrael> well, what really pisses me off is that i bought a minipci wifi card and it won't work in this laptop
[03:27] <web250> y not?
[03:27] <kalenedrael> refuses to start
[03:27] <nmorse> Is it just me or is the topic today especially large?
[03:27] <kalenedrael> says it's 'unsupported'
[03:28] <kalenedrael> bullshit, it will work fine if only the laptop will boot
[03:28] <web250> nmorse: topic is regarding the KDE 3.4.2 release
[03:28] <web250> thats why it is so big
[03:28] <kalenedrael> the bios is set to only allow certain cards
[03:28] <gdh> nmorse: I wonder how much work it would be to set up http://topic.irc.kubuntu.org/ ?
[03:28] <web250> i hate that they need proprietary stuff...liek ram too
[03:28] <kalenedrael> and guess what? those certain cards are made by HP
[03:28] <nmorse> Dell proprietary RAM sucks.
[03:28] <kalenedrael> proprietary ram?
[03:28] <kalenedrael> yuck
[03:28] <nmorse> And SO-DIMMS normally aren't proprietary.
[03:28] <web250> it needs to be "coded" from the manufacturer
[03:29] <kalenedrael> that's stupid
[03:29] <kalenedrael> don't buy a dell, then
[03:29] <web250> so basically, instead of paying $40 for 512mb of regular stuff, you have to pay $60 for 512mb of "Dell" memory
[03:29] <nmorse> The ones in my Dell Poweredge just have the slots to keep you from putting it in wrong shifted slightly.
[03:29] <web250> even if you buy it from Corsair/Kingston/etc...its more $$
[03:29] <nmorse> $30 for 128MB for my Server.
[03:29] <gdh> I've seen HP's that cry if you install non-dell memory (BIOS cries about lack of support) but the machine still runs...
[03:29] <kalenedrael> non-dell memory?
[03:30] <nmorse> You physically can't install non-Dell memory in Dell servers much of the time.
[03:30] <web250> BIOS can cry all it wants...like my backup PC which BIOS says Hdd is going to fail
[03:30] <gdh> andt he servers just tend to ship with ECC memory (a good thing! :)
[03:30] <nmorse> Without filing the RAM down at least.
[03:30] <fidget> how does one get a list of channels on a server?
[03:30] <fidget> in irc ..
[03:31] <web250> what program
[03:31] <fidget> konversation
[03:31] <nmorse> But the machine hasn't died despite the huge amount of time it's been running constantly for.
[03:31] <web250> no idea...i use xchat
[03:31] <fidget> ah ... how would you do it in xchat
[03:31] <gdh> fidget: just /list should do it
[03:31] <nmorse> Stupid thing was a database server for a greeting card company for ten years and I've used it for almost 3 now.
[03:32] <fidget> ah ... nope ... 
[03:32] <gdh> F5 then ?
[03:32] <gdh> (from Window -> Channel list for freenode)
[03:32] <nmorse> I love the /list response.
[03:32] <kalenedrael> /list should work, really :P otherwise you have a somewhat bad irc client
[03:32] <nmorse> Server load is temporarily too heavy, try again later?
[03:32] <kalenedrael> btw don't do /list in freenode
[03:33] <kalenedrael> fills screen with random crap
[03:33] <kalenedrael> well, list of channels
[03:33] <kalenedrael> but still...
[03:33] <fidget> hah .... 
[03:33] <gdh> :)
[03:33] <fidget> ahh F5 works
[03:33] <fidget> much thanks 
[03:33] <gdh> fidget: It's right there in the menus :)
[03:33] <web250> f5...the magical refresh key
[03:33] <fidget> eh .. sorry x.x i'm new to irc ... can you tell
[03:34] <nmorse> That's a lot of channels
[03:34] <web250> i wonder who invented function keys....and why M$ put a gay ass F-lock on my keyboard
[03:34] <gdh> try EFnet :)
[03:34] <fidget> dude!
[03:35] <nmorse> The F-lock key is there so you can do things that aren't supported without extra software
[03:35] <nmorse> Like one-key copy and paste
[03:35] <nmorse> I prefer X11's highlight and middle click
[03:35] <web250> eghhh...i still have to configure my keyboard to work in linux...
[03:36] <nmorse> What keyboard is it?
[03:36] <web250> microsoft multimedia keyboard
[03:36] <nmorse> Most microsoft keyboards work with lineakd.
[03:36] <nmorse> I have that exact one actually.
[03:36] <web250> i used xev to find the keycodes...i just need to edit the file now... i forget which one
[03:36] <nmorse> Just use lineak buddy
[03:36] <nmorse> apt-cache search lineak
[03:37] <nmorse> And be aware that the My Documents, My Pictures, and My Whatever keys all use the same keycode
[03:37] <web250> k...ran that
[03:37] <web250> whatd i do now
[03:37] <web250> install lineakd?
[03:38] <web250> Linux support for Easy Access and Internet Keyboards
[03:38] <nmorse> sudo apt-get install lineakd lineakd-kdeplugins
[03:38] <nmorse> Then go to lineak.sf.net and download the klineakconfig deb.
[03:38] <nmorse> klineakconfig makes this whole process way easier.
[03:41] <web250> klineakconfig only had rpms etc...lineakconfig has a deb, get that?
[04:08] <ralph1> lscd_: Got the printer/scanner working using the hplip stuff following the howto: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HpPscHpPhotosmartSeriesAllInOnePrinters.
[04:12] <lscd_> ralph1: ahh, good to know
[04:14] <BROKEN_LADDER> http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/teeto/jumping_cats39.jpg
[04:19] <ralph1> lscd_: I am glad to. Just wished kunbuntu would have loaded the right modules and configured the printer and scanner in the first place. But now the less KUBUNTU ROCKS
[04:20] <lscd_> ralph1: eh, well, it should keep getting better 
[04:21] <lscd_> for the distros i'm used to, i'd recommend filing a wish bug on the bugzilla, but i'm not familiar with ubuntu and its procedures yet
[04:27] <ralph1> lscd_: That is what I have done in the past and will do with this.
[05:06] <esac_> i am installing kubuntu and it has been sitting at "Testing network repository" for an hour now, any ideas ?
[05:06] <ray_> are there drivers out there for keyboards?
[05:07] <ray_> esac_: yeah.......is your connection good?
[05:07] <esac_> ray_: i have no connection :)
[05:07] <ray_> how do i enable special keys on my keyboard?
[05:08] <esac_> you in kde ?
[05:08] <ray_> yuup
[05:08] <ray_> yup
[05:08] <esac_> is the right keyboard type selected under kde control center->hardware->keyboard
[05:08] <ray_> umm hol on
[05:10] <lscd_> ray_: i generally do it in the X11 config - it's nice in case anyone uses something non-kde, but wants the same keymap (but if that's a non-issue, using the kde control center is fine)
[05:10] <ray_> i cAnt find anything in kcontrol
[05:13] <ray_> umm hol on
[05:13] <ray_> i cAnt find anything in kcontrol
[05:13] <ray_> whoa
[05:13] <ray_> i found something
[05:13] <esac_> ?
[05:13] <esac_> :)
[05:14] <ray_> hmmm
[05:27] <NoHope> hey, do you know how to get qmake from apt-get?
[05:31] <transgress> qt3-dev-tools maybe?
[05:35] <courtknee> hey all
[05:36] <courtknee> love this distro;  everything works on my machine on the first install!! no mod whatso ever!
[05:43] <ray_> kde 3.4.2 is great
[05:43] <courtknee> sure is
[05:43] <ray_> how do i install a new kdm theme?
[05:43] <courtknee> in ubuntu it seems to have a clearer fonts by default
[05:44] <chavo> ray_ most kdm themes have installation instructions on the kde-look page
[05:44] <lscd_> how's it better than 3.4.1?
[05:45] <ray_> chavo: yeah i looked........the instructions tell me to put things in folders and files that dont exist
[05:45] <chavo> hmm
[05:45] <ray_> chavo: and the text file they wanted me to edit wasn't there?
[05:45] <chavo> I've only installed one here nad can't remeber exactly what I did
[05:46] <ray_> WAIT
[05:46] <chavo> ray_, http://www.kde-look.org/help/index.php?type=40
[05:50] <ray_> chavo: yes i know.....look for those files and folders
[05:50] <chavo> ray_ hold on a sec
[05:51] <chavo> you may have to creat hte folders like ~/.kde/share/apps/kdm
[05:51] <ray_> i tried
[05:58] <flugh> heya #kubuntu. nice layout on the live dvd. good work for all involved
[08:43] <ztonzy> morning -_-
[09:07] <ztonzy> btw
[09:08] <ztonzy> where's the midsum for the new live cd (for test) ?
[09:15] <ztonzy> no one awake ?
[09:33] <necrogami> hello
[09:33] <hussam> where can I get debs for libfox-dev 1.4 ( hoary has 1.0 and breezy has 1.2 )? anybody?
[09:34] <necrogami> im trying to install GAIM anyone know a dpkg for it?
[09:34] <milksteak> gaim should be in apt
[09:35] <necrogami> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[09:35] <necrogami>   gaim: Depends: libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.9.0) but it is not installable
[09:35] <necrogami>         Depends: libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.6.0) but it is not installable
[09:35] <necrogami> its actaully got 4 dependances and wont install
[09:35] <necrogami> Just downloaded and Burned Kubuntu From the website did a Mirror Install 
[09:36] <ztonzy> wow...finally some people
[09:36] <ztonzy> been waiting an hour :)
[09:36] <necrogami> heh
[09:43] <necrogami> ok Curious
[09:45] <necrogami> anyone here?
[09:46] <insanekane> atk 1.9 i believe is in breezy ... iirc
[10:10] <hussam> anyone knows where I can get libfox-dev 1.4? hoary das 1.0 and breezy has 1.2
[10:10] <ztonzy> so...third time I burned the new live cd and now with the midsum...I hope it works this time
[10:11] <ztonzy> hussam: sorry , no
[10:11] <mabu> Is this a known problem?
[10:11] <mabu> Alt+F2 gg: something
[10:11] <hussam> ztonzy: oh
[10:12] <mabu> and konqueror windows starts flashing and it's hard to turn it off
[10:12] <ztonzy> I tried burned with speed 4x, 6x and 10x and last time by auto , which was 10x
[10:12] <caravena> Hi!!!
[10:13] <caravena> testing kubuntu, excelent!!!
[10:13] <ztonzy> caravena: indeed it is
[10:14] <caravena> testing 3.4.2...
[10:26] <necrogami> Does Ubuntu have an Active Package Directory?? Active package Directory as in the Same as http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/packages
[10:27] <Wizzard> hi ppl, where can I get glibc_2.3.4?
[10:29] <Poromies> necrogami: yes, packages.ubuntu-linux.org or something like that
[10:29] <Poromies> packages.ubuntu.com
[10:32] <necrogami> Thank you Very Much
[10:32] <ValheruLord> can i take screenshots on console?
[10:32] <ValheruLord> in ctrl-alt-f1
[10:32] <ValheruLord> ??
[11:14] <csenger> hi
[11:20] <buz> guys, where did the oo2 debs live again?
[11:22] <buz> http://ftp.linux.cz/pub/localization/OpenOffice.org/devel/680/SRC680_m121/Build-3/
[11:26] <nikkia> buz, just build it from source, it only takes a day or two :P
[11:27] <nikkia> (call me old fashioned, but there is something wrong when an office app takes longer to compile than KDE+X combined)
[11:27] <nikkia> ValheruLord: yes, there is :)
[11:27] <hussam> buz: I'm using the en-us deb from http://ftp.linux.cz/pub/localization/OpenOffice.org/devel/680/SRC680_m121/Build-3/  they are running great.
[11:27] <nikkia> ValheruLord: use screen, then hit ctrl-a h, and it dumps a 'hardcopy' (a screenshot of your console essentially)
[11:28] <ValheruLord> ok thanks
[11:29] <nikkia> ValheruLord: it won't work with SVGAlib stuff, but thats probably not what you wanted anyway
[11:29] <nikkia> there are also a few situations where it might not work because of the way screen works
[11:31] <ValheruLord> wait i installed screen
[11:31] <ValheruLord> now i will try
[11:33] <buz> hussam: just downloaded those
[11:36] <buz> too bad they dont have those in a rep
[11:36] <jpatrick> don't have what?
[11:37] <buz> oo2 debs
[11:37] <jpatrick> there are
[11:38] <buz> ooooold ones
[11:38] <jpatrick> oh
[11:38] <jpatrick> I want them to update the superkaramba verison
[11:38] <jpatrick> :)
[12:31] <znh> xD
[12:52] <Aapzak> good morning room
[12:54] <Aapzak> allright, you're all still having breakfast then? :)
[12:55] <Aapzak> I wanted some advise on wifi. It seems there are some chipsets which are supported by both linux and freebsd pretty well, anyone know about those?
[12:55] <jpatrick> Mine works fine
[12:56] <Aapzak> which is a ??
[12:56] <jpatrick> Let me look
[01:01] <Aapzak> you should be able to see that in dmesg or /var/log/messages
[01:03] <Aapzak> I just don't succeed in building a good driver for my card, an acx 111. It works without WEP, so at the moment I use someones (dunno who) access point. But monday I'll be getting my own and I don't want everyone on my LAN
[01:03] <Aapzak> so I need some kind of encryption and I can't build a proper driver
[01:05] <jpatrick> well this is my card:
[01:05] <jpatrick> I'll PM it
[01:10] <kay> hello
[01:10] <jpatrick> hi
[01:11] <kay> Aapzak: Use wpasupplicant
[01:11] <kay> That is a user space implementation of encryption
[01:11] <kay> I use it with my Centrino and it is great. It knows most cards I believe...
[01:12] <kay> The driver itself need not know WPA and so on, wpasupplicant does
[01:12] <kay> Works on Linux, BSDs and possibly others
[01:12] <kay> I can also recommend ifplugd from universe
[01:13] <kay> It brings the interface up and down depending on link or not
[01:13] <kay> That means, no wireless -> no route attempt -> no timeout, immediate failure
[01:13] <Aapzak> that sounds good
[01:13] <kay> It works perfect
[01:14] <kay> I have LAN, USB network, WLAN and VLAN with it
[01:14] <kay> Of course, the VLAN is connected manually
[01:14] <Aapzak> thats a lot
[01:14] <kay> I plug in something and it is used. It even adds and removes DNS server
[01:14] <kay> Use resolveconf package for that
[01:15] <Aapzak> is it hard to config?
[01:15] <kay> I didn't find it so
[01:16] <kay> wpasupplicant has good docs and examples
[01:16] <kay> I have WPA with pass phrase, that was a few lines only
[01:16] <kay> For resolveconf you need to edit /etc/network/interfaces and read man interfaces
[01:16] <kay> So you know what to add to the interfaces
[01:16] <Aapzak> allright
[01:17] <kay> For ifplugd, all you need to do, is to not "auto eth0" e.g.
[01:17] <Aapzak> sounds like a reasonable solution
[01:17] <kay> And tell ifplugd to deal with it
[01:17] <kay> I find it perfect
[01:17] <kay> I believe, wpa supplicant can even connect to multiple WLANs
[01:17] <kay> I don't use that though so far, only at home
[01:17] <Aapzak> yeah, but my driver for acx 111 is not perfect, just a half hour ago my wifi hang
[01:18] <Aapzak> stupid linksys with acx111 
[01:18] <kay> For the desktop I checked before and bought one recommended by tuxhardware.de
[01:18] <kay> Oh, I had linksys too, which one do you have?
[01:19] <Aapzak> thats a texas instruments chip, they don't support anything but windows and do not coorporate with OSS driver dev-ers
[01:19] <kay> If you can get open mode to work, that will be good enough, provided wpa supplicant supports it
[01:19] <kay> I can check... wait
[01:19] <Aapzak> lemme check, its pcmcia anyway
[01:20] <Aapzak> wpc54g-eu
[01:20] <malte> kaffeine crashes when trying to add stuff to the playlist while playing a movie. what's up with that?
[01:21] <Aapzak> dunno malte 
[01:21] <kay> Can you use ndiswrapper, Aapzak ?
[01:21] <Aapzak> I never tried
[01:21] <kay> malte: I think kaffeine in Hoary is broken
[01:22] <Aapzak> kay, will that solve all my problems?
[01:22] <kay> Dunno, but then you use the windows driver
[01:22] <kay> In a nutshell, there is a wrapper that will use the Windows driver to do the work for the linux kernel
[01:22] <Aapzak> true, I never tried it because I don't want to use windows stuff :)
[01:23] <kay> Well... wpa supplicant does not support acx at least not in the README
[01:23] <kay> And it received a lot
[01:23] <kay> I am on Breezy though
[01:23] <Aapzak> yeah, thought so :)
[01:23] <Aapzak> I just pulled your version 3 seconds ago :)
[01:24] <kay> In theory, things can work out greatly
[01:24] <kay> That I saw :p
[01:24] <kay> I must admit, I wouldn't know what it answers
[01:24] <malte> kay: is there a way to get a working kaffeine?
[01:24] <Aapzak> I know, I tried it on myself, saw the request, but not the answer
[01:24] <Aapzak> [CTCP]  Received CTCP-VERSION reply from kay: Konversation 0.18 Build 3016 (C) 2002-2005 by the Konversation team
[01:24] <kay> I think I am using it now without problems since 3.4.1 update from Kubuntu
[01:25] <Aapzak> I'm using 0.16, 
[01:25] <kay> That's Hoary, true?
[01:25] <Aapzak> hoary
[01:25] <Aapzak> true
[01:26] <kay> So, give it a go, Aapzak, it may all work out perfectly :p
[01:26] <Aapzak> ndis?
[01:26] <Aapzak> or the software solution?
[01:26] <Aapzak> I'm thinking about another pcmcia card
[01:26] <kay> best idea perhaps
[01:27] <Aapzak> a linux/bsd friendly no hassle pcmcia card
[01:27] <kay> if you can still return, do so
[01:27] <Aapzak> I'll sell thisone
[01:27] <kay> i had all trouble with my linksys router
[01:27] <Aapzak> take my loss
[01:27] <kay> check ralink
[01:27] <Aapzak> ralink?
[01:27] <kay> they have GPL driver
[01:27] <Aapzak> kewl
[01:27] <kay> Chipset
[01:28] <Aapzak> sitecom uses that
[01:28] <kay> I have it in my desktop, was cheap and has really free driver
[01:28] <kay> works on amd64 with no prob
[01:28] <kay> Their driver does WPA-PSK without help
[01:28] <Aapzak> and it supports everything you expect from wifi?
[01:28] <Aapzak> ok
[01:28] <kay> or, eh, the community version I use do
[01:29] <Aapzak> does it work with windows? :)
[01:29] <kay> There is a company driver and one on Sourceforge...
[01:29] <Aapzak> lol
[01:29] <kay> yes, it does
[01:29] <Aapzak> my GF is not ready for Linux yet
[01:29] <kay> My wife is on Linux for years now :)
[01:30] <Aapzak> I'm working on it, 
[01:30] <kay> And she expresses dismay when I booted Windows for gaming
[01:30] <Aapzak> but since we don't pay for windows anyway, she sees no reason for trying something else
[01:30] <Aapzak> lol
[01:30] <kay> I too, we now finally have our product on it migrated too
[01:31] <kay> I own a Win2000 still
[01:31] <Aapzak> ah, WinXP here, for gaming only
[01:31] <buz> Aapzak: explain here that you'll have more time for her if you dont need to constantly virus proof windows ;)
[01:31] <kay> And at work, I sometimes get interrupted and must boot my machine into Windows
[01:31] <Aapzak> lol
[01:31] <kay> So they can do some maintenance to an unused system
[01:32] <buz> mhh i dont even have a windows booting machine anymore
[01:32] <kay> Hell, they even upgraded to Office 2003 lately
[01:32] <buz> i have a partition on a drive with a very old win2k install but its not even connected to the ide cable ;)
[01:32] <Aapzak> a year ago we had sasser on our network, noone could work but me, everyone was outside in the sun, so it's nice to have Windows on your machine
[01:32] <kay> i like a game every few months
[01:32] <kay> then i boot more into it
[01:32] <kay> lol Aapzak 
[01:33] <kay> The irony is, we are all developing Unix products
[01:33] <kay> But
[01:33] <buz> i've been developping unix stuff on 2k for a loong time
[01:33] <kay> The people responsible for infrastructure swear on Windows
[01:33] <Aapzak> thats just not right kay, thats just not right
[01:34] <kay> Well, yeah... about 5 times a day, I get messages about what is being rebooted and when
[01:34] <buz> is there anything like vmware but open source?
[01:34] <buz> qemu it aint
[01:34] <buz> winwoes ist job security for the it staff
[01:34] <kay> Well, Xen is a subset of it
[01:34] <buz> xen doesnt run win
[01:34] <kay> There is something, bochs
[01:34] <buz> qemu is too slow
[01:35] <buz> that one's even slower
[01:35] <buz> oh wait new qemu version
[01:35] <buz> maybe it'sfast enough now ;)
[01:35] <kay> Well... why do you need something for win, you said you had no bootable win?
[01:35] <buz> every once in a while i should look at stuff with IE
[01:35] <buz> i know i could hack around with wine but that's a pain
[01:36] <buz> and crossover is $$$
[01:36] <kay> hm... web pages?
[01:36] <buz> yeah
[01:36] <buz> i develop against firefox
[01:36] <kay> We have a terminal server for people
[01:36] <buz> but i need to see the massacre in ie every once in a while
[01:36] <Aapzak> kay, do you have the ralink rt2500 chip?
[01:37] <kay> yes, exactly, Aapzak 
[01:37] <Aapzak> prolly the best there is
[01:37] <kay> Works great.
[01:37] <kay> I would say so, the hardware was also cheap :p
[01:37] <Aapzak> lots of people suggest atheros
[01:37] <Aapzak> but ralink supports GPL driver development, while atheros is opposed to it
[01:38] <kay> I was constrained by needing PCI card
[01:38] <kay> Oh, well, then it's clear I hope :p
[01:38] <Aapzak> crystal
[01:38] <Aapzak> tnx
[01:38] <kay> hm?
[01:38] <Aapzak> cdrystal clear
[01:38] <kay> ah, crystal clear :)
[01:39] <kay> Centrino is also ok, but they use firmware.
[01:39] <kay> No firmware with ralink
[01:42] <Aapzak> centrino amazed me. everything just works out of the box
[01:42] <Aapzak> if I was to buy a laptop today, I would certainly buy a centrino
[01:47] <Aapzak> ralink uses no firmware? odd
[02:10] <Aapzak> kay, the rt2500, does it use a seperate driver, or is there allready a kernel driver?
[02:12] <ztonzy> hmm why does Flash slow down Konqueror ?
[02:14] <ztonzy> it really sloooooooooows it down
[02:14] <ztonzy> is there a pre-version of konqueror with adblock in it , yet ?
[02:18] <Aapzak> I find konqueror lacking in a lot of areas, I still use it, but there is a lot to be improved
[02:29] <heulSuSE> Hi!
[02:31] <insanekane> ok ... ive run out of disk space on my linux partition ... i have a free partition though. Is there some way I can *extend* my kubuntu partition to "swallow" this new partition ? I do not want to use the free partition seperately by mounting on some mount point, rather I would like the additional space to be used by Kubuntu partition. I've heard this can be done by LVM/EVM ?? anyone know a safe way to do this ?
[02:31] <insanekane> nikkia: ^^ ??
[02:31] <heulSuSE> I updated to kde 3.4.2 and now my sound doesn't work any more. Just one speaker of my 5.1 soundsystem is playing. I have a creative live! 5.1. I don't know where to start with the troubleshooting. 
[02:34] <insanekane> heulSuSE: tried the KMix ?
[02:34] <heulSuSE> insanekane: Yes, and i tried alsamixer. 
[02:36] <heulSuSE> Bevor the update i managed the loudness with the master ruler, but know there ist no reaction.
[02:40] <necrogami> newest version already installed
[02:40] <necrogami> how do i start the services?
[02:43] <needlz> hi. can someone tell me how to change the keyboard layout in kubuntu? i have version 5.04 and my desktop is enlightenment. im trying to change it from us to german
[02:44] <insanekane> needlz: System->Settings->Regional&Accessibility->Keyboard Layouts
[02:44] <needlz> thats with kde, right?
[02:44] <insanekane> yes
[02:44] <insanekane> needlz: with a console, you can do kcontrol, to get control centre
[02:45] <needlz> ah ok
[02:45] <needlz> thx
[02:46] <needlz> setxkbmap -model pc104 -layout de_CH -variant basic
[02:46] <needlz> :D
[02:46] <needlz> thank you, it worked
[02:46] <nikkia> insanekane: won't change englightenment
[02:46] <nikkia> he needs to change the keyboard layout Xorg is using
[02:46] <needlz> mh
[02:47] <needlz> and how can i do that? :)
[02:47] <insanekane> needlz: using setxkbmap
[02:47] <needlz> ive read something about x86conf or something like that
[02:47] <needlz> ah ok
[02:47] <insanekane> xkb -> XOrg keyboard system
[02:47] <nikkia> in /etc/X11/xorg.conf change/add the 'Option   "XkbLayout" "..."' line
[02:47] <nikkia> ... should be 'de' i imagine
[02:47] <needlz> de_ch
[02:48] <needlz> (swiss german) :)
[02:48] <insanekane> :)
[02:48] <nikkia> needlz: ok, try that, but it might not be right
[02:48] <needlz> ok done
[02:48] <insanekane> nikkia: u can check if ur map exists, at /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/pc
[02:48] <needlz> thanks for your help
[02:48] <needlz> !
[02:48] <ubotu> needlz: I don't know
[02:49] <needlz> (k)ubuntu is a pretty nice distro
[02:49] <nikkia> de_CH apparently
[02:49] <nikkia> needlz: you might also need to change/add 'Option "XkbModel" "pc104"' but i think thats the default
[02:49] <needlz> i dont know which xkb model i have
[02:50] <needlz> :/
[02:50] <nikkia> needlz: i don't think it matters, tbh
[02:50] <needlz> ive a thinkpad laptop
[02:50] <nikkia> i'm using a 105 key keyboard, and Xorg is set to 104 with no bad effects
[02:50] <needlz> but its working right now
[02:50] <nikkia> and all my keys work so ...
[02:50] <needlz> :)
[02:51] <nikkia> i think the real reason for the XkbModel is for non-PC layouts like ANSI/ASCII
[02:52] <needlz> do you have enlightenment?
[02:52] <nikkia> me?
[02:52] <needlz> yes
[02:52] <nikkia> no, i haven't used E since about E15 or so
[02:52] <needlz> ah ok
[02:52] <nikkia> 1999ish, at a guess
[02:53] <nikkia> actually, thats not true
[02:53] <needlz> mh?
[02:53] <nikkia> i did run it about a year ago for a few minutes, to see if it offered anything better, but was instantly put off by the really badly designed virtual screen system
[02:53] <nikkia> that makes it near impossible to work the way i do
[02:54] <needlz> well i used e16 a few years ago and now e17...and i like both :)
[02:54] <needlz> i havent touched a linux system since 2001..heh
[02:57] <TestMAD> isnt e17 just a shell tho? not a full blown windowsmanager?
[02:59] <needlz> its a full blown windowsmanager :)
[02:59] <needlz> get-e.org
[03:01] <TestMAD> ive been looking into enlightenment cus im a LS themer..and from what i understand..its the closest thing to that.
[03:01] <TestMAD> just not sure if i wanna mess with it.
[03:01] <paines> hi
[03:01] <TestMAD> hi
[03:17] <Aapzak> bye guys, have a nice day!
[03:20] <moparfan90> hello
[03:21] <apokryphos> hi moparfan90 :)
[03:22] <moparfan90> hello
[03:22] <moparfan90> i think i like kde a little better the gnome
[03:22] <apokryphos> moparfan90: cool. Me too =)
[03:23] <moparfan90> is there a way to make the login kde and not gnome and not mess it up again?
[03:23] <apokryphos> moparfan90: did you update to kde 3.4.2?
[03:23] <moparfan90> no
[03:23] <apokryphos> I gave you the link...
[03:23] <moparfan90> i forgot what to do so i gave up
[03:23] <apokryphos> !kde342
[03:23] <ubotu> well, kde342 is at http://kubuntu.org/hoary-kde-342.php
[03:24] <apokryphos> instructions are there, too. Just add one of the repositories. If you need help with that LMK
[03:24] <moparfan90> whats better about that and kde 3.4??
[03:24] <apokryphos> 3.4.2 has a lot of bug fixes
[03:25] <moparfan90> how do i get the list thing     sudo apt-get ...
[03:25] <moparfan90> ?
[03:25] <apokryphos> Nope. You will first have to add that source to your sources.list -- apt uses that to know where to check for packages.
[03:26] <moparfan90> how do i open the source list?
[03:26] <apokryphos> It's located in /etc/apt -- you will need root permissions to edit it. So, alt+f2 -> kdesu kwrite /etc/apt/sources.list
[03:28] <apokryphos> Note that there are different lines there, each of which signifies a repository. The "#" serves to comment-out a line; so when you sudo apt-get update, it doesn't check those ones
[03:29] <tech> tech@tech:/etc$ cat environment
[03:29] <tech> LANGUAGE="en"
[03:29] <tech> LANG="en_US.ISO-8859-15"
[03:29] <tech> CHARSET="ISO-8859-15"
[03:30] <tech> is this the correct way to set my charset?
[04:04] <Almindor> why are not cdroms set to udma?
[04:04] <Almindor> *not set to
[04:05] <Almindor> and how do I set them permanently?
[04:05] <carsten> Moin moin. Could please somebody tell me what /usr/bin/kdm is? Is that a script or the kdm-binary?
[04:06] <paines> carsten: file /usr/bin/kdm
[04:06] <paines> give you info about the file
[04:06] <paines> and you see it is a binary
[04:06] <Almindor> anyone?
[04:07] <Almindor> I can set it to udma via hdparm but that's a one timer
[04:07] <paines> Almindor: there is /etc/hdparm.conf
[04:07] <paines> will set the hdparm parameters during each boot
[04:08] <Almindor> there's still alot of work for the linux config usability :)
[04:08] <carsten> paines, I know what *my* system has. I need to know what the regular kubuntu has :)
[04:08] <paines> carsten: achso
[04:08] <paines> carsten: well, it is a binary
[04:09] <carsten> ok, and not a softlink?
[04:09] <paines> s -sal /usr/bin/kdm
[04:09] <paines> 144 -rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 139880 2005-06-26 00:57 /usr/bin/kdm
[04:09] <carsten> ok, looks like what KDE provides
[04:10] <carsten> mine is 148579 big, but it selfcompiled (kde-3.5-branch)
[04:10] <buz> kubuntu kde 3.4.2
[04:10] <buz> -rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 119864 2005-07-26 15:41 /usr/bin/kdm
[04:10] <paines> well mine is a 64bit kubuntu
[04:11] <buz> that one would naturally be bigger
[04:11] <paines> yep
[04:11] <carsten> I removed all kde-packages and self-compiled KDE. Now kdm does not longer work. Thus I need to know how the packages do it. 
[04:12] <paines> sadly, there are no kubuntu amd64 kde 3.4.2 packages at the moment
[04:12] <paines> and I am too lazy to compile it
[04:12] <buz> lol
[04:12] <buz> one reason why i'm not on 64bit
[04:12] <buz> of course the other being that currently my athlon64 is broken
[04:12] <paines> buz, yeah amd64 isn't getting the "right" attention which it should, imho
[04:12] <buz> and i think i'll just replace it with a sempron
[04:12] <buz> it'll do
[04:13] <buz> sempron plus board will cost me less than a new venice
[04:13] <buz> and be only marginally slower i'd say
[04:13] <paines> carsten: just kdm does not work or kde in general
[04:14] <buz> any sempron owners around?
[04:14] <necrogami> <---
[04:14] <buz> which one?
[04:14] <necrogami> 2500+ AMD Semperon here
[04:14] <buz> that is socketa right?
[04:14] <necrogami> yep
[04:14] <buz> i'm more interested in the 2600+ socket754 variety ;)
[04:14] <buz> socketa i got enough machines
[04:14] <paines> buz: well, i bought the amd64 a few weeks back. there are some cool packages missing, like wine, flash etc. but most stuff is there, and i think it is just a matter of ime until everything is supported
[04:14] <necrogami> Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe Motherboard
[04:14] <buz> but cooling socketa is real pain
[04:14] <necrogami> Cooling Socket a a pain!??1
[04:15] <buz> sure
[04:15] <necrogami> what temp does your chip run
[04:15] <buz> silently cooling i mean ;)
[04:15] <necrogami> im almost positive mine'e cooler
[04:15] <necrogami> quitely
[04:15] <buz> my athlon was passively cooled most of the day
[04:15] <paines> mine 35 degree clesius
[04:15] <necrogami> last time i checked
[04:15] <buz> mine about 40 passive ;)
[04:15] <necrogami> this semperon ran @ 28 deg C
[04:15] <buz> 50 under load
[04:16] <buz> with just one slow 120mm fan in the back
[04:16] <necrogami> right now its running like 40 deg C w/ active cooling
[04:16] <buz> where slow is 600rpm
[04:16] <necrogami> well 
[04:16] <necrogami> for me this is quiet
[04:16] <paines> 600 rpm ?
[04:16] <buz> well my current backup machine is far from quiet
[04:16] <necrogami> i just disaseembled my 5x 120mm case
[04:16] <buz> it's got the original box cooler inside
[04:16] <paines> i have 35 degrees cesisu with 4600 rpm
[04:16] <buz> for lack of space for anything better
[04:16] <necrogami> im moding it more :heh:
[04:16] <buz> what measly fan was that???
[04:17] <buz> 60mm???
[04:17] <necrogami> my chip sink has 2x 120mm Asus Fans on it
[04:17] <necrogami> :-D
[04:17] <necrogami> when i get it hooked back up il hafta take pics of my heatsink
[04:17] <buz> crazy
[04:17] <necrogami> yea
[04:17] <buz> what heatsink?
[04:17] <necrogami> but running @ 28deg under 100% load
[04:17] <necrogami> CNC Made
[04:18] <buz> truly crazy then
[04:18] <necrogami> VShaped
[04:18] <necrogami> 2x 120MM Fans
[04:18] <buz> i had this baby http://thermaltake.com/coolers/4in1heatpipe/cl-p0071SonicTower/cl-p0071.htm on my a64
[04:18] <necrogami> TT 
[04:18] <necrogami> nice 
[04:18] <necrogami> i repsect TT
[04:18] <buz> i generally dont
[04:18] <necrogami> O.o
[04:18] <buz> it's about the only good cooler in years
[04:19] <buz> i would have gotten the titan vanessa but it wasnt on stock
[04:19] <necrogami> almost all my fans are tt
[04:19] <buz> tt fans are crap
[04:19] <buz> for the most part
[04:19] <necrogami> compared to?
[04:19] <buz> occasionally, they'll sell a few good ones
[04:19] <buz> well my reference are yate loon d12sl
[04:19] <buz> didnt find anything that beat them so far
[04:20] <necrogami> all my 120 case fans are Radoshack made :-D
[04:20] <necrogami> 92CFM each
[04:21] <necrogami> my case at full operational flows about 400 CFM
[04:21] <buz> you wearing earplugs beside it???
[04:21] <necrogami> na
[04:21] <necrogami> its in a room by its self
[04:21] <necrogami> w/ my 40U Server Cage
[04:21] <necrogami> Lots of noise in that room
[04:21] <necrogami> 4x 24 Port Nortel Switch's
[04:22] <necrogami> 15x 2U Rack Servers
[04:22] <necrogami> 1 APC Battery Backup
[04:22] <moparfan90> thats all in yourhouse?
[04:22] <necrogami> yep
[04:22] <necrogami> downstairs :)
[04:22] <moparfan90> what conecction do you have?
[04:22] <necrogami> 6Mbit
[04:22] <moparfan90> oo
[04:22] <Ahmuck> that heatsink is wicked
[04:22] <necrogami> ty
[04:23] <necrogami> i do Graphics Development
[04:23] <moparfan90> oo
[04:23] <necrogami> The Rack Servers are a rendering farm
[04:23] <moparfan90> for what?
[04:23] <necrogami> myself at the moment
[04:23] <moparfan90> oo
[04:23] <necrogami> still in college working on a mmorpg
[04:23] <moparfan90> you must have sent alo of money on all that
[04:23] <necrogami> yep
[04:23] <necrogami> ive owned a programming company since 1995
[04:24] <moparfan90> whats the name?
[04:24] <necrogami> Phoenix Edge Network
[04:24] <moparfan90> do you have a sitye?
[04:24] <moparfan90> website
[04:24] <necrogami> and im a Partner in 3M Tech Group
[04:24] <necrogami> at the moment ... no
[04:24] <moparfan90> oo
[04:24] <necrogami> working on getting my hosting servers back online
[04:24] <necrogami> Issue's w/ Coloc
[04:24] <moparfan90> whats coloc?
[04:24] <necrogami> Server Co-Location
[04:25] <moparfan90> oo
[04:25] <buz> i've come to the conclusion that issues with colo are "normal"
[04:25] <necrogami> buz .. yes
[04:25] <buz> they all invariably fuck up. some sooner, good ones later
[04:25] <necrogami> but when they refuse to turn of custdity or hook up servers for almost 2 months ~.~ iratates me
[04:25] <buz> last sunday the core router in our colo broke
[04:26] <moparfan90> so then get a ifferent program hats better
[04:26] <buz> havent had THAT bad experiences so far
[04:26] <necrogami> yea
[04:26] <necrogami> my colo ive got 4 Racks
[04:26] <necrogami> and the wanted to fuck me over
[04:26] <necrogami> i told them il go somewhere else
[04:26] <buz> wtf do you do with 4 racks???
[04:27] <necrogami> host data Cluster cage
[04:27] <necrogami> i used to own  Chicagoland ISP
[04:27] <necrogami> a Chicagoland isp
[04:27] <moparfan90> are you rich?
[04:28] <necrogami> used to be
[04:28] <necrogami> kinda dwindled away
[04:28] <moparfan90> not any more.. why not
[04:28] <gdh> hookers + cocaine :)
[04:28] <necrogami> this that .. all kinds of things
[04:28] <necrogami> lol
[04:28] <necrogami> something like that
[04:28] <necrogami> $3k/month on the Co-Location
[04:28] <moparfan90> :0
[04:29] <moparfan90> wow. thats alot
[04:29] <necrogami> na
[04:29] <necrogami> thats cheap
[04:29] <gdh> for enough space to run an ISP + bandwidth, that's cheap :)
[04:29] <necrogami> na
[04:29] <necrogami> thats not my isp bw
[04:29] <necrogami> lol
[04:29] <buz> 3k? that's cheap
[04:29] <necrogami> i had 2 Wireless Tower Connections @ 73gbps each
[04:29] <necrogami> i know
[04:29] <necrogami> but 2 month hold on my servers
[04:30] <necrogami> ... i left them
[04:30] <necrogami>   $2900 /month $0 setup fee!/Rack @ hostdime.com
[04:30] <moparfan90> necrogami, you have AIM or ICQ??
[04:30] <necrogami> necrogamilord aim
[04:31] <buz> i would have sued them
[04:31] <necrogami> meh
[04:31] <necrogami> they gave them back .. right before i did ..
[04:31] <buz> in fact very nearly sued a colo once
[04:31] <necrogami> so i didnt care i had my servers back
[04:31] <buz> those fucking morons unplugged two our of most important machines
[04:32] <necrogami> oh nice
[04:32] <buz> supposedly we were hosting pr0n they claimed
[04:32] <necrogami> uh
[04:32] <necrogami> every co-loc ive ever dealt w/ as long as its not illegal they dont care
[04:32] <buz> never mind that one of the machine was MTA, the other dns
[04:32] <buz> well the deal was unlimited traffic but no pr0n
[04:33] <necrogami> meh 
[04:33] <necrogami> lmfao
[04:33] <buz> whatever, there wasn't a single image on either server
[04:34] <buz> two more hours of downtime and they would have had their handed their asses in court
[04:34] <necrogami> lol
[04:35] <buz> if i had the time, i'd still have sued them
[04:35] <buz> ah never mind
[04:35] <necrogami> lol
[04:35] <buz> one more company on my black list
[04:36] <necrogami>  lol i hear that one
[04:37] <_martin> Anyone else find that the Control Panel entry on the menu disappers when updating to 3.4.2?
[04:39] <necrogami> whats the command for traceroute on kubuntu .. lmfao
[04:40] <necrogami> im so damned used to work i forget the command at home
[04:40] <buz> apt-get install traceroute
[04:40] <martinjh99> erm traceroute ?
[04:40] <necrogami> yea .... i guess that does help
[04:40] <necrogami> if its installed.. lol
[04:41] <necrogami> um yuck
[04:41] <necrogami> 1 * * *
[04:41] <necrogami> 2 * * *
[04:41] <necrogami> 3 * * *
[04:41] <necrogami> 4 * * *
[04:41] <moparfan90> 5***
[04:41] <necrogami> ~.~ yuck .. its broke...
[04:42] <necrogami> blah 
[04:42] <necrogami> firewall
[04:42] <martinjh99> Riddell> Should the control panel still be on the menu on 3.4.2?  Not on mine... ;)
[04:44] <JakubS> necrogami: mtr is better anyway
[04:44] <buz> mtr seems slightly evil to me
[04:45] <buz> its bound to create a shit load of traffic
[04:47] <moparfan90> is anyone into game development here?
[04:48] <Riddell> moparfan90: install kde-systemsettings
[04:48] <moparfan90> why?
[04:48] <Riddell> moparfan90: sorry, that was to martinjh99 but he's gone
[04:49] <moparfan90> oo
[04:49] <moparfan90> is anyone into game development here?
[04:55] <nikkia> moparfan90: yes
[04:55] <moparfan90> nikkia, i am making a mod on hl2 you want in
[04:55] <nikkia> ah, no, i have a job that takes all my time :P
[04:56] <moparfan90> oo
[04:56] <nikkia> literally, most days :/
[04:57] <moparfan90> oo.
[04:57] <moparfan90> that suck
[04:57] <buz> i thought you spent half of the day wondering what to do at your job
[04:57] <buz> or did you get a new one
[04:59] <nikkia> buz, eh?
[05:00] <buz> maybe it was someone else then
[05:00] <nikkia> i imagine so
[05:00] <nikkia> buz, me, i've been on crunch time since christmas
[05:00] <nikkia> i'm on holiday this week, and i'm still expected to do work
[05:00] <buz> that suuuucks
[05:01] <buz> yet you're on icq ;9
[05:01] <buz> irc
[05:01] <buz> even
[05:01] <nikkia> buz, i'm always on irc
[05:01] <nikkia> buz, and i'm not working 'right now', i should be, but screw em
[05:01] <buz> well idling!=chatting ;)
[05:02] <nikkia> buz, even when i'm chatting, there is enough time spent waiting for compiling/loading to chat anyway
[05:02] <nikkia> erm, even when i'm working...
[05:02] <znh> hm.. I'd like to configure a proxy server for apt-get.. manpage doesn't help me out :-(
[05:03] <gdh> at work I'm sysadmin, and I happily chat on IRC. perks of the job, etc.
[05:03] <znh> don't tell me you guys don't know :(
[05:03] <gdh> znh: try man apt.conf
[05:03] <znh> gdh: ok!
[05:04] <gdh> (it's mentioned as a reference at the bottom of 'man apt-get')
[05:04] <znh> gdh: there does not exist a apt.conf
[05:04] <apokryphos> znh: man apt.conf gives you nothing?
[05:05] <znh> apokryphos: oh yes it does, I see.. stupid me :-) thanks
[05:05] <gdh> znh: then something is very wrong with your system :)
[05:05] <gdh> ah, cool :)
[05:05] <znh> is there a search function for man?
[05:05] <gdh> sure , "/"
[05:06] <znh> awesome
[05:06] <`Nomad> apropos
[05:06] <gdh> case-sensitive
[05:06] <znh> http::Proxy::<host>
[05:06] <`Nomad> apropos is case insensitive
[05:09] <znh> I added http::Proxy::192.168.2.100:4001 to /etc/apt/apt.conf - but it results with:E: Syntax error /etc/apt/apt.conf:2: Extra junk at end of file
[05:10] <znh> will use apt-setup instead
[05:18] <apokryphos> nikkia: no modem yet? :|
[05:22] <AberMatt> can some one point me to the location of apt.conf? all I can find so far is /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/, but no file
[05:23] <AberMatt> :D nvm, google has provided the goods again
[05:27] <nikkia> apokryphos: no, no modem yet
[05:28] <apokryphos> nikkia: is your connection up? Phone line?
[05:28] <nikkia> apokryphos: and bulldog's page says 'there is a problem with your service, we apologise for the lack of telephone and dsl services, we will contact you within 24 hours to provide an update'
[05:28] <nikkia> apokryphos: yet, phone works perfectly *shrug*
[05:28] <apokryphos> nikkia: and it's on Bulldog?
[05:28] <nikkia> apokryphos: i assume so...
[05:28] <nikkia> apokryphos: i had no caller id on BT, i do have caller id
[05:29] <nikkia> apokryphos: which suggests it has been switched to bulldog
[05:29] <apokryphos> you can just type 1571 can't you? Bulldog doesn't use that
[05:29] <nikkia> what's that do ?
[05:29] <apokryphos> On BT it's to hear your messages
[05:29] <nikkia> turn your phone into a lousy disk drive ? :)
[05:30] <apokryphos> Phone doesn't store them; they do.
[05:30] <apokryphos> afaik
[05:30] <nikkia> apokryphos: hmm, i get 'please enter your phone number then press the hash key'
[05:30] <nikkia> apokryphos: you missed the joke, clearly
[05:30] <apokryphos> that's it? No identifier :|
[05:30] <nikkia> 1571 == lousy commodore drive, an upgrade to the even lousier 1541 :P
[05:31] <apokryphos> haha, yesyes
[05:31] <nikkia> apokryphos: can YOU try dialling 1571 and tell me what you get on bulldog ?
[05:31] <apokryphos> It's a shame they haven't said the modem yet -- you should phone them. It's free, I believe.
[05:31] <apokryphos> yeah, one sec.
[05:31] <Ahmuck> someone needs to move the download icons to the top of the news, and the new under it.  i use 800x600 and have spent time looking for the download link which i would have supposed to be closer to the top.  it is confusing to have it clear down at the bottom
[05:32] <apokryphos> nikkia: Ok, I can't ;-). Sister's on the phone.
[05:33] <nikkia> apokryphos: bulldog DO have a voicemail on 1571
[05:33] <apokryphos> oh :|
[05:33] <nikkia> apokryphos: so it could be bulldog's voicemail i'm getting to
[05:33] <nikkia> its 1/mo tho
[05:33] <nikkia> oh, wait, no it isn't
[05:33] <nikkia> 'this service is free to @ctive members'
[05:34] <apokryphos> That's Bulldog
[05:34] <nikkia> its bulldog
[05:35] <nikkia> the voice on 1471 is different, as is the text spoken
[05:35] <apokryphos> a shame that they haven't sent the modem yet; you should phone them -- it's free
[05:35] <nikkia> apokryphos: yeah, and a 1hr queue usually, apparently
[05:35] <apokryphos> It always varied for me; never waited an hour, though.
[05:35] <apokryphos> not even half an hour, actually (for me).
[05:36] <apokryphos> a couple of times it got jam-packed though
[05:36] <jpatrick> gdh: what was that command?
[05:37] <apokryphos> Ahmuck: good point; there should ideally be a "Download" tab.
[05:38] <apokryphos> Ahmuck: or something of the sort. Ask Riddell 
[05:39] <Ahmuck> Riddell: u round ?
[05:40] <Ahmuck> Riddell: can we get the download icons moved up above the news section or a download tab added to the website
[05:45] <jpatrick> can someone look at this?
[05:45] <jpatrick> http://pastebin.ca/18864
[05:48] <JakubS> jpatrick: not a problem, new kernels print that
[05:49] <jpatrick> It can't see the PCI
[05:50] <jpatrick> or something...
[05:51] <jpatrick> which is where the sound card is..
[05:53] <HopeSeekr> hello...I am *trying* to install KDE 3.4.2 following the very short guide at the website.  This is from a fresh install of ubuntu with 0 kde installed.  I get the following error when apt-getting kubuntu-desktop:
[05:53] <jpatrick> http://kubuntu.org/hoary-kde-342.php
[05:54] <HopeSeekr> deb http://mirror.cc.columbia.edu/pub/software/kde/stable/3.4.2/kubuntu hoary-updates main
[05:55] <jpatrick> do: apt-get get update
[05:55] <HopeSeekr> crap
[05:55] <jpatrick> JakubS: it also says 'workaround, the "pci=routeirq" argument restores the old...'
[05:55] <HopeSeekr> see i think that's the rpoblem....
[05:56] <HopeSeekr> kubuntu-desktop: Depends: kdepim but it is not going to be installed. 
[05:56] <jpatrick> :-/
[05:56] <HopeSeekr> E: Broken packages
[05:56] <HopeSeekr> (paste does nto work so i was typing verbatim)
[05:56] <Ahmuck> what happened to kde toys ?
[05:57] <HopeSeekr> this is from a BRAND NEW *U*buntu installation with ZERO kde
[05:57] <jpatrick> don't upgrade yet
[05:57] <HopeSeekr> i thought it was smart to install kde 3.4.2 once ... but it seems i must install whatever comes with the old kubuntu-desktop and then upgrade again
[05:57] <jpatrick> first get KDE
[05:57] <nikkia> apokryphos: 20 minutes, not too bad
[05:57] <HopeSeekr> jpatrick, so i must download kde twicE?
[05:57] <apokryphos> nikkia: still: ouch
[05:58] <nikkia> apokryphos: apparently, i should have gotten the modem a month ago
[05:58] <jpatrick> looks like it...
[05:58] <HopeSeekr> k
[05:58] <HopeSeekr> i have bitten the bullet and have staretd the rpocess now
[05:58] <HopeSeekr> i'll keep u posted
[05:58] <HopeSeekr> this is a bug report tho ...
[05:58] <apokryphos> nikkia: :Z  What are they doing to recitify that now?
[05:58] <courtney> is it possible to reset the KDE ui to the installed orginal?
[05:59] <nikkia> apokryphos: she said she'd talk to the divison that handles equipment, and request they send another priority
[06:00] <jpatrick> brb
[06:00] <nikkia> apokryphos: the fault on my line is apparently 'a CDSL fault, they are trying to rectify it 'currently'', so i probably wouldn't have DSL even if i had the modem, but thats not really the point
[06:02] <nikkia> apokryphos: hopefully, they use a different definition of CDSL than the rest of the telecoms industry :P
[06:02] <nikkia> as CDSL is the version of DSL that is limited to 512Kbps
[06:02] <apokryphos> haha. Did you tell her?
[06:02] <nikkia> no
[06:03] <HopeSeekr> woohoo!!! I did it!!!
[06:03] <HopeSeekr> i integrated my p2p with apt-get!@
[06:03] <HopeSeekr> *p2p program*
[06:03] <nikkia> apokryphos: as far as i know, rockwell stopped supporting CDSL about 5 years ago, so i really doubt they mean that
[06:03] <apokryphos> nikkia: sometimes they'll bring in terminology to try to confuse with it, and reaffirm their position of being experts :P
[06:03] <gdh> nikkia: I thought that was called rate-adaptive?
[06:03] <nikkia> apokryphos: also, afaik, none of the installed DSL equipment in the UK is CDSL anyway
[06:03] <HopeSeekr> so now you can download huge release files...like say, kde 3.4.2 ... via p2p w/ minimal fuss :o
[06:03] <nikkia> gdh, that's a different low-speed DSL solution
[06:03] <apokryphos> HopeSeekr: heh. How exactly?
[06:03] <gdh> well yeh, exactly.. limited to 512k :)
[06:04] <HopeSeekr> integration w/ libed2k that i mdde for xmule
[06:04] <nikkia> gdh, less limited, tho
[06:04] <HopeSeekr> ed2k already has a URL schema so you just use sourced ed2k links instead of ftp or http links
[06:05] <apokryphos> HopeSeekr: is this for you to get packages of others? 
[06:05] <HopeSeekr> and since files on ed2k are virtually exponentially more persistent than those transferred via bittorrent, it would make sense for distribs to actually utilize thier own private ed2k servers for handling all transfers
[06:06] <apokryphos> HopeSeekr: yup; would make more sense for more stress to be put on torrents. Ubuntu have been doing it a bit, which is cool. KDE hasn't really made any effort there
[06:06] <apokryphos> HopeSeekr: hopefully with the birth of a functional kget torrent-system we'll see a rise, there.
[06:06] <HopeSeekr> well for one thing, ed2k implicitly supports FTP and multiple streams at that...so you could give it 2, 3, hell 20 FTP mirrors and it would grab the file from all 20 at once
[06:06] <HopeSeekr> distributing bandwidth consumption on all 20 and giving user maximum throughput
[06:06] <nikkia> gdh, iirc, CDSL is limited to 32Kbps upload
[06:07] <gdh> ouch
[06:07] <apokryphos> HopeSeekr: the p2p search is limited to what, however? Packages? Music?
[06:07] <gdh> who/why is that even being used?
[06:07] <nikkia> gdh, it was designed for people > 5km from the switch
[06:07] <HopeSeekr> apokryphos? you can put any type of file on ed2k ... it just scales better with files over 9 mb
[06:07] <nikkia> gdh, with particularly bad copper
[06:07] <gdh> erk
[06:08] <nikkia> gdh, as i said, i don't think its ever been deployed in europe, so i really doubt that's what bulldog are giving me :P
[06:08] <nikkia> and if it is, i'll be cancelling rather soon, cos i *know* BT can supply 2Mbps here
[06:09] <HopeSeekr> i'll probably have this apt-get functionally ironed out by the time xmule 2.0 is released
[06:09] <nikkia> gdh, apprently, one advantage of CDSL was that it requires no filters
[06:09] <gdh> esp since bulldog are far too engrossed in ther 8Mb advertising campaigns, etc.
[06:13] <ztonzy> apokryphos: hey
[06:13] <apokryphos> ztonzy: hey, how's it going?
[06:14] <ztonzy> apokryphos: fine thanks...kde (3.4.2) works faster than ever
[06:14] <apokryphos> ztonzy: cool =). Any Konq/Kaffeine problems since?
[06:15] <ztonzy> apokryphos: just konqueror crashing sometimes...not so often anymore
[06:16] <ztonzy> and Flash that pulls down konqueror to slowdown
[06:16] <apokryphos> Weird. Still wondering why it crashes
[06:16] <apokryphos> Never had problems here with flash :|
[06:17] <JakubS> ztonzy: you can lower flash priority
[06:18] <ztonzy> JakubS: how ?
[06:18] <ztonzy> apokryphos: I sometimes a site that is quite pro IE/Flash...and it seems to clogg Konqueror
[06:18] <JakubS> ztonzy: configuration of konq - > plugins -> CPU priority slider
[06:18] <apokryphos> ztonzy: link?
[06:19] <ztonzy> it is set to lowest
[06:19] <ztonzy> apokryphos: ah it is a swedish site
[06:19] <apokryphos> ztonzy: that's alright. Just to check if it cloggs here
[06:20] <ztonzy> apokryphos: www.spray.se
[06:20] <apokryphos> my CPU priority is on highest here
[06:20] <apokryphos> ztonzy: seems absolutely fine here; gonna test with lowest priority
[06:20] <ztonzy> I only got AMD Xp2800+
[06:21] <apokryphos> ztonzy: more than me
[06:21] <ztonzy> dunno...but I think it is that site pulling it down
[06:22] <apokryphos> loads fine with low priority, too. No idea why it's happening, really, since you have a fast connection too.
[06:22] <ztonzy> I am just guessing
[06:23] <ztonzy> those hovering flash ads follows the up/down when dragging pages horisontally...and it looks as it slows down
[06:24] <moparfan90> does anyone know a program that will make my kde desktop look cooler?
[06:24] <ztonzy> kde-look.org ?
[06:24] <apokryphos> moparfan90: you can alter themes/windowdecs/icons/background
[06:25] <moparfan90> some one was telling me about xterm and some others
[06:25] <moparfan90> are those good?
[06:27] <apokryphos> xterm is an X Terminal emulator
[06:27] <moparfan90> o
[06:28] <moparfan90> i cant find the control panel. its not there any more
[06:28] <nikkia> apokryphos: can i ask you a favour in privmsg ?
[06:28] <apokryphos> nikkia: of course
[06:29] <moparfan90> is there a program or emulator for windows media player?
[06:30] <othernoob> why would you even want to use that "program"
[06:35] <moparfan90> because sometime when im online i cant look at stuff... music vids 
[06:35] <moparfan90> and that is annouying
[06:48] <HopeSeekr> well i had used the latest gnome for 9 months on my business computer ... i upgraded to KDE 3.3.2 last week and i have never looked back :o
[06:48] <HopeSeekr> it even seems as though the programs operate faster in it
[06:48] <HopeSeekr> even things like firefox
[07:02] <akrus> hello
[07:02] <akrus> nano, vi and vim do not work for me, what to do then?
[07:04] <apokryphos> akrus: what's the error message?
[07:05] <akrus> I'm under rescue mode
[07:05] <akrus> nano <-- bshell not found
[07:06] <akrus> vi and vim: "functions w/out bshell are limited"
[07:07] <apokryphos> Ah :/. I always forget the editor to use (which isn't easy to use at all, as I recall). Hm.
[07:07] <akrus> well
[07:07] <akrus> grub says: "bshell not found"
[07:07] <akrus> I don't have initrd
[07:08] <akrus> so I need to remove a line from lilo.conf
[07:08] <akrus> but I can't :'(
[07:19] <HopeSeekr> wow akrus u have a fucked up system
[07:19] <HopeSeekr> you arent trying to run grub on an xfs partition are you? :-/
[07:22] <MikeEnIke> hey
[07:30] <HopeSeekr> man i remember just a few years ago when downloading kde would take multiple days...now it takes [lit.]  10 minutes :o
[07:32] <lokito> has any one try to install crossoffice ? im having problems
[07:51] <plovs> what package do i need to install to use cyrillic? i use 3.4.2 and it shows "err" at the moment
[08:00] <_StarScream> anyone here running  an ibook < 900 ?
[08:37] <kubuntu> HELP!!!!!!
[08:38] <kubuntu> HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[08:38] <OculusAquilae> ????
[08:39] <kubuntu> how do i reinstall grub?
[08:39] <kubuntu> reinstalled windows
[08:39] <OculusAquilae> hm
[08:39] <kubuntu> ??
[08:39] <kinfo> i don't understand.
[08:40] <gdh> kubuntu: Try a full sentence :)
[08:40] <OculusAquilae> he wants to put grub back in MBR
[08:40] <kubuntu> i reinstalled windows...corrupted MBR..now no Grub menu!...how to reinstall grub
[08:40] <gdh> "grub-install hd0" isn't it?
[08:40] <gdh> I still use LILO most of the time .. :)
[08:40] <OculusAquilae> gdh: in kubuntu?
[08:41] <gdh> OculusAquilae: No, generally.
[08:41] <kubuntu> yes in kubuntu
[08:41] <kubuntu> is that all...grub-install hd0
[08:41] <kubuntu> whr do i type it?
[08:41] <gdh> at a root shell
[08:42] <gdh> kubuntu: sudo grub-install hd0
[08:42] <OculusAquilae> but he can't boot kubuntu
[08:42] <gdh> oh! Live CD, then?
[08:42] <kubuntu> install cd wont work
[08:42] <OculusAquilae> right live cd
[08:43] <OculusAquilae> coolblue: i think we haven't got such a funktion, but we need it :-)
[08:44] <gdh> I believe breezy will have a single ISO image used for both install + live...
[08:44] <coolblue> really????
[08:45] <gdh> I think so, but... I may have been very... very drunk at the time ;)
[08:45] <coolblue> what a shame that in kubu u cant reinstall grub!
[08:45] <apokryphos> It's possible, and makes sense. Annoying to have to download a whole CD if you find that you like the Live
[08:45] <OculusAquilae> gdh: i never read about it and it seems very difficult
[08:45] <apokryphos> has been generally a success on MEPIS, I think.
[08:46] <OculusAquilae> don't like it :-)
[08:46] <coolblue> then mepis rocks!
[08:48] <OculusAquilae> i think install cd should only make it possible to install and to repair the boot manager
[08:48] <apokryphos> OculusAquilae: why?
[08:49] <OculusAquilae> apokryphos: i don't know how mepis is doing it but is it right that you must boot the live cd to install it?
[08:49] <coolblue> yes
[08:50] <apokryphos> OculusAquilae: correct.
[08:51] <OculusAquilae> apokryphos: that takes to much time and is bad if you reinstall you os often :-)
[08:51] <OculusAquilae> or on many computers
[08:52] <apokryphos> OculusAquilae: sure, but (i) you shouldn't be installing your OS often, (ii) booting a liveCD really doesn't take *that* long
[08:52] <apokryphos> It easily saves time for the average user who would try the live and like it, then have to wait to download the install CD
[08:52] <nikkia> apokryphos: there is a downside tho
[08:53] <apokryphos> nikkia: no doubt, but the advantages seem to outweight those.
[08:53] <apokryphos> s/outweight/outweigh
[08:53] <nikkia> apokryphos: you can't include as many packages on a hybrid disk, unless you sort out some kind of auto-install when a user runs a package
[08:53] <apokryphos> Yes, it's made so that it apt-gets the stuff, I believe.
[08:53] <nikkia> apokryphos: but that harms the live-cd part :/
[08:54] <apokryphos> Why?
[08:54] <nikkia> apokryphos: because it means the memory requirements are higher (gotta have a ramdisk) and the startup for apps is slower
[08:54] <nikkia> initial startup, that is
[08:54] <nikkia> and i suppose i should say 'a bigger ramdisk' as there is one there anyway...
[08:54] <apokryphos> Heh, yeah, got confused there.
[08:55] <apokryphos> Why does it have to be bigger, because it needs to apt-get stuff? :S
[08:55] <apokryphos> it'll apt-get straight to the HDD
[08:55] <nikkia> apokryphos: where else are you going to apt-get install TO ?
[08:55] <nikkia> apokryphos: then its not a live-cd
[08:55] <apokryphos> nikkia: it only apt-gets to the HDD when you select to install
[08:55] <apokryphos> afaik
[08:56] <nikkia> apokryphos: you're missing the point, if you auto-install apps to run them, on the live-cd part, then they've got to go somewhere
[08:56] <nikkia> if you have installed/uninstalled packages, as most live/install hybrids do now, your package selection has to be much smaller
[08:56] <nikkia> you can't have your cake and eat it, i'm afraid
[08:57] <ztonzy> apokryphos: :)   
[08:57] <jpatrick> let them eat cake
[08:57] <_chris> I had problems with Ubuntu's Gnome on my Radeon 9000 Video Card, but Kubuntu(KDE) Is doing just fine, thanks guys.
[08:58] <apokryphos> Maybe I am, but I still can't see the weakness here. You have a Live-CD -- fine and dandy. You try it out, then you want to install it to the HDD, so you apt-get straight to it. Where's all the extra ramdisk that's required?
[08:58] <ztonzy> anyone know how to set colors back to default in Konversation ?
[08:58] <gdh> _chris: hah cool - there really should be /zero/ difference between the two , they share the same kernel + Xorg...
[08:58] <nikkia> apokryphos: because a live cd has *pre-installed* packages
[08:58] <apokryphos> nikkia: which is a problem because...
[08:58] <nikkia> apokryphos: so you're saying the install process is 'cp -a / /mnt' ?
[08:58] <_chris> Well, Gnome lags on startup and needs to be completely reinstalled but nobody can tell me how to reinstall it.
[08:58] <nikkia> apokryphos: imo, thats a bad idea with debian-style distros
[08:59] <_chris> So I downloaded kubuntu in the terminal.
[08:59] <ztonzy> apokryphos: I did the opposite with netplugins, put it up to highest priority instead to tes
[08:59] <ztonzy> t
[08:59] <nikkia> apokryphos: it tosses all chances of reconfigure'ing base packages without re-downloading the packages
[08:59] <_chris> I think the only thing now is some of the Gnome-Games won't load heh.
[08:59] <apokryphos> nikkia: yes, but I think such a thing evidently aims for the average user
[09:00] <nikkia> apokryphos: which, kind of makes the new 'install/live' hybrid useless for server installs
[09:00] <apokryphos> nikkia: who wouldn't, I should think, want to reconfigure their base packages. 
[09:00] <nikkia> apokryphos: then you still need a 'pro' install disc
[09:00] <apokryphos> nikkia: it's worth checking out what MEPIS people think about this -- would you want to ask them? All my experience with them has been very pleasant (really)
[09:00] <nikkia> apokryphos: i wouldn't dispute the usefulness of a live-cd that can install a minimal system, but to have *one* disc that is install and live, is too problematic, IMO
[09:00] <apokryphos> nikkia: complete opposite to #debian
[09:01] <apokryphos> Should actually check their site to see that they don't have other install CDs
[09:01] <ztonzy> I was impressed by the speed of mepis as live cd...
[09:01] <ztonzy> very fast system
[09:01] <ztonzy> compared to other live cd's
[09:01] <apokryphos> I think more work is put into it as it's the halfway between the actual installation
[09:02] <ztonzy> no one ?
[09:02] <ztonzy> blind*
[09:03] <apokryphos> ztonzy: deselect the option that's about using "custom colours"
[09:03] <gdh> ztonzy: delete the konversation dir in ~/.kde/apps/share/konversation ?
[09:03] <ztonzy> gdh: ah yeah...sorry, I have a jellohead this evening, have had headache
[09:03] <ztonzy> apokryphos: will test
[09:03] <apokryphos> You should be able to just delete konversationrc if you need to though, I imagine.
[09:05] <apokryphos> gdh, ztonzy: might not be a good idea to delete the konversation/ dir -- your logs are there
[09:06] <ztonzy> apokryphos: yes I noticed :P
[09:07] <ztonzy> found it
[09:07] <ztonzy> brb
[09:15] <apokryphos> nikkia: okok, I'll ask :P
[09:15] <nikkia> ?
 nikkia: it's worth checking out what MEPIS people think about this -- would you want to ask them? All my experience with them has been very pleasant (really)
[09:15] <nikkia> apokryphos: yes, asking a group of people that have already made the decision which decision is right, is a GREAT idea :P
[09:15] <delltony> damn my isp is borked today dropping packets left and right :(
[09:15] <ztonzy> :)
[09:15] <apokryphos> nikkia: I don't think they'll completely lose touch with objectivity just yet. Though, I think this is an issue you could easily dispute and still use the distro for. I definitely don't like the way Ubuntu/Kubuntu does everything
[09:15] <apokryphos> ztonzy: it work?
[09:15] <nikkia> apokryphos: ask them if you like, but i imagine i know what the answer will be
[09:15] <nikkia> apokryphos: either 'don't be silly' or some rationalisation of why tossing packages from the base install 'really isn't that bad'
[09:15] <apokryphos> nikkia: though the channel is very small (feel kinda sorry for the guys). 37 nicks; usually very silent, but when they speak seem like great people in general
[09:15] <apokryphos> nikkia: I guess we'll have to wait n' see :). No response yet.
[09:15] <ztonzy> apokryphos: some parts yes
[09:15] <apokryphos> ztonzy: which parts aren't, and what did you change? GUI option?
[09:15] <nikkia> apokryphos: let me remind you that people expect more from a live-cd than from a base install, too
[09:15] <nikkia> apokryphos: for example, most people insist on having OOo on their live-cd
[09:15] <apokryphos> nikkia: i.e. Kubuntu
[09:15] <ztonzy> apokryphos: extra settings
[09:15] <ray_> anybody know how to make xscreensaver load at boot?
[09:16] <apokryphos> ztonzy: like what, sorry?
[09:16] <apokryphos> ray_: you mean when you login to KDE?
[09:16] <ray_> apokryphos: yes.....sorry
[09:16] <ztonzy> apokryphos: ah no problem!
[09:16] <ztonzy> just user settings
[09:16] <apokryphos> ray_: it's in the KDE FAQ
[09:16] <apokryphos> !kdefaq
[09:16] <ubotu> kdefaq is, like, at http://docs.kde.org/development/en/kdebase/faq/
[09:16] <ray_> thanks
[09:16] <apokryphos> ztonzy: no idea what they are, but you could always just mv konversationrc konversationrc1 -- see if that helps.
[09:17] <ztonzy> apokryphos: well it did...or to basket
[09:17] <ray_> apokryphos: Wow they make it real easy!
[09:17] <apokryphos> =)
[09:18] <apokryphos> nikkia: hehe, a response: <YaleR> you can reconfigure stuff without reinstalling
[09:18] <apokryphos> Guess I'm really qualified to argue either position
[09:18] <nikkia> apokryphos: i'm not saying you need to *reinstall* however, carrying around all of the post-install scripts for all packages on a live-cd is a bit of an overhead
[09:19] <apokryphos> nikkia: why not do that once you've installed?
[09:19] <nikkia> apokryphos: do what? reconfigure ?
[09:19] <apokryphos> Yup.
[09:19] <nikkia> apokryphos: so you ARE advocating redownloading the .deb's to get their post-installs ?
[09:20] <apokryphos> Kind of, not entirely. Heh, I wish I knew how exactly it worked.
[09:21] <nikkia> apokryphos: oh well, forget it, we'll wait and see what happens, when kubuntu's hybrid CD doesn't even install gcc 'because its useless on a live-cd and there's no room for the packages', THEN i'll complain :P
[09:22] <apokryphos> hehe
[09:23] <apokryphos> I wonder if build-essential comes by default now. Why didn't it before? 
[09:25] <jpatrick> wow - apt-get moo - never knew that before :-/
[09:25] <jpowers> that's why we need a hybrid dvd rather than a hybrid cd
[09:25] <jpowers> er
[09:26] <jpowers> jpatrick: isn't that cool?
[09:26] <jpatrick> mo idea
[09:26] <jpatrick> no*
[09:32] <apokryphos> jpatrick: one wonders wy that
[09:32] <apokryphos> *one wonders why that's not in the man page ;-)
[09:33] <insanekane> apokryphos: re the mepis comments earlier ... its funny when i talked to them, noone seems to know where the src packages are
[09:33] <plovs> anybody having this problem: Error loading new keyboard description?
[09:33] <apokryphos> insanekane: someone now just said "I assume it coppies it's own root directly to your hard disk"
[09:33] <insanekane> apokryphos: ??
[09:34] <nikkia> insanekane: 'cp -a / /mnt' basically
[09:34] <insanekane> err, so ?
[09:34] <insanekane> is this live-cd to hdd install ?
[09:34] <nikkia> insanekane: that is the topic of discussion, yes
[09:35] <insanekane> apokryphos, nikkia : i wonder, is the mepis hiding of src packages, acceptable to the free/open software community ?
[09:35] <apokryphos> I don't think it really does hide them
[09:35] <insanekane> it doesnt ?
[09:35] <apokryphos> quite a jump from "people in IRC don't know where they are"
[09:36] <insanekane> well, it wasnt available from the repos
[09:36] <insanekane> there is no documentation on it, noone in the forums answer the question, the distro maintainer doesnt answer re src packages, etc
[09:36] <insanekane> it kind of looks like hiding
[09:37] <insanekane> anyway ... lose the mepis thing ... is hiding src packages acceptable to free/open software community ?
[09:38] <goro> hi folks
[09:38] <jpatrick> hi there
[09:39] <apokryphos> insanekane: I'm not yet convinced that they are, but no it wouldn't be. 
[09:39] <apokryphos> insanekane: anyhow, surely you would just be able to see from apt-get where it's getting things. How would they close it up exactly?
[09:40] <insanekane> well, the repos doesnt contain src packages
[09:40] <goro> i have a little problem : when i try to install kubuntu on a friend's old notebook (p2, 300mhz) , the installation hangs at "starting hotplug subsystem". does anybody know what to do in this case?
[09:40] <insanekane> apokryphos: well the repos doesn't contain src packages
[09:40] <insanekane> apokryphos: i did try to get them from the repos
[09:41] <insanekane> apokryphos: perhaps it was the way i asked them ... i started off by saying i wanted to build a derived distro :)
[09:41] <apokryphos> hehe
[09:42] <insanekane> i doubt that if i say that in here, that Riddell for eg would stop helping me out the way he does now ;)
[09:42] <apokryphos> They don't respond all the time
[09:42] <apokryphos> sometimes it can be quiet for hours
[09:43] <nikkia> no soup^Wlinux help for you!! :P
[09:43] <insanekane> Riddell: ive already told you, if you remember correctly ;)
[09:49] <insanekane> wb nikkia 
[09:49] <nikkia> just compiled kvirc and closed my irssi session, thats all
[09:49] <insanekane> oho
[09:50] <ray_> kvirc? that better that konversation?
[09:51] <ztonzy> woohoo
[09:51] <ztonzy> another Konqueror crash
[09:52] <insanekane> Riddell: my monitor horiz frequency, was detected correctly by kubuntu hoary live cd, but not by the kubuntu install cd ... any hints on why ?
[09:58] <ztonzy> why o why does Konqueror crash so often ?
[09:58] <gdh> cuz KDE is shit ;)
[09:59] <ztonzy> gdh: hahaha...
[09:59] <ztonzy> well..we use "shit" then :P
[09:59] <gdh> Yep :)
[10:21] <delltony> curious anyone here use microsoft visual studios in vmware? just wondering boss wants me to make some crappy visual basic stuff and i'm linux now so tryinig to get the studios to install but getting setup runtime issues
[10:35] <ray_> is there a good gui frontend for samba?
[10:38] <mart> ray_: konqueror?
[10:38] <mart> ray_: using the smb:/ kioslave
[10:39] <ray_> ok.....wow thanks
[10:40] <insanekane> good night all
[10:42] <gdh> ray_: yes, konq.. go to smb:/ - it will act like 'Network Neighborhood'
[10:43] <gdh> bah
[10:43] <gdh> must. scroll. down. more. often.
[10:45] <delltony> anyonoe know if vmware 5.0 works good wiith hoary? reason i say is i have vmware 4.2 and it gives me errors abut xfree86 and all that crap but runs 
[11:13] <Or1on> is it possible to DAR (or other backup software) a NTFS partition witn XP and then create a new FAT32 partition and extract from backup archives? Or will XP complain at the change of filesystems?
[11:14] <Or1on> I need to convert NTFS to FAT32.... Linux  is not safe for writing on NTFS 
[11:19] <gdh> Or1on: alternatively, use Linux to read from NTFS... and use Windows to read from ext2/ext3 ?
[11:19] <gdh> so you get a two-way file-transfer using read-only from each OS :)
[11:20] <Or1on> thats painfull everytime I need to write something I have to reboot... lol
[11:20] <gdh> Bear in mind FAT32 has a maximum file size of 4GB - not much use if you ever use DVD images....
[11:20] <Or1on> good point
[11:21] <gdh> Or1on: aren't computers great? :)
[11:21] <mart> > Checking out kdelibs
[11:21] <mart> > svn: Caught signal
[11:21] <Or1on> :oD
[11:22] <Or1on> well maybe I  use linux for the dvd images...
[11:23] <Or1on> it would be cool if XP supported ext3 :oD
[11:23] <gdh> ext2 == ext3, really.
[11:23] <Or1on> I mean. If I could install XP in a ext3 partition
[11:23] <gdh> esp. in readonly..
[11:24] <gdh> ahh :)
[11:24] <gdh> hehe
[11:25] <buz> aw crap
[11:25] <buz> now i even get asked for xp suppot in irc
[11:26] <Or1on> ?
[11:28] <pakos> mart: it's working now
[11:29] <Or1on> gdh: thanks I think I will keep things the way they are :oD
[11:30] <Or1on> and install that ext2/3 driver on xp
[11:30] <gdh> No Change is good :)
[11:31] <delltony> anyone use the latest version of vmware?
[11:31] <delltony> does it support the newiest kernal builds?
[11:31] <mart> pakos: what's working sorry?
[11:31] <pakos> mart: svn
[11:31] <mart> pakos: well, that's what was weird, it caught some signal, but carried on working...
[11:32] <mart> or, maybe not...
[11:33] <pakos> mart: for me, it didn't work for a while. but it's ok now
[11:33] <gdh> delltony: nikkia has used 5.0 I think - works well enough
[11:33] <gdh> delltony: the 4.5.1 I have works fine, too...
[11:34] <pakos> mart: but sadly unsermake not working anyway :-/
[11:34] <nikkia> gdh, the only complaint i have about 5 is that the Direct3D stuff is 'hard' to get working
[11:34] <delltony> cool
[11:34] <delltony> question
[11:34] <delltony> i have 4.2 right now can i upgrade
[11:34] <mart> pakos: that seems to be working again now
[11:34] <delltony> or do i have to recompile it and all that crap and start completely over
[11:34] <delltony> as in putting xp back on it and crap
[11:34] <gdh> dell: a 4.x serial will work for any 4.x version of the software
[11:34] <nikkia> delltony, 5.0 is a huge upgrade, well worth it
[11:34] <gdh> delltony: Yes you can re-use your existing virtual machines
[11:35] <gdh> I'm using one on 4.5.1 that I created with 3.x
[11:35] <delltony> sweet
[11:35] <delltony> cause my new job requires me to do visual basic development
[11:35] <gdh> poor you :(
[11:35] <delltony> blah blah cough cough
[11:35] <nikkia> a) their clunky proprietary GUI stuff is gone, replaced with gnome, b) Direct3D->OpenGL mapping
[11:35] <delltony> yeah no kiddin
[11:35] <gdh> Can't even convince them to do C# .NET devel?
[11:35] <nikkia> delltony, if there was one thing i *wish* they'd fix, its the stupid OSS requirement...
[11:35] <delltony> why they dude will not let me code in c++ is beyond me
[11:35] <delltony> but hey its his show
[11:35] <gdh> a real language that could get you a better job? :)
[11:35] <delltony> i'm just an actor
[11:36] <delltony> c# rocks
[11:36] <mart> pakos: actually, I might just be getting confused about that, looking at the svn history
[11:36] <delltony> i love c#
[11:36] <pakos> mart:no, it has internal python errors. it never worked for me (ok, trying only for two days)
[11:36] <delltony> but this dude wants the vb cause of access (cough again)
[11:36] <delltony> he is just stuck on this microcrrap office package thing
[11:37] <delltony> the only reason he uses it
[11:37] <delltony> i don't know i use to be big on windows
[11:37] <delltony> but got tired of having to always fix the crap
[11:37] <gdh> Yay! Visual Basic! The gateway to a billion REALLY SHIT database frontends the world over :)
[11:37] <delltony> and i have heard the argument windows is only as good as its user, i disagree
[11:38] <mart> pakos: I only noticed it break today, but it worked fine before that for months
[11:38] <delltony> man the prgram im using for work that he wrote
[11:38] <delltony> to do database interface
[11:38] <delltony> sucks ass
[11:38] <pakos> mart: hmm, ok, then it's not my local problem
[11:39] <delltony> he just uses it for the front end so it generates the access reports and all that stuff
[11:39] <delltony> i guess its ok but not really
[11:39] <nikkia> gdh, in fairness, there's enough perl out there that's gateway to really bad mysql frontends :P
[11:39] <gdh> haha true :)
[11:40] <delltony> he about crapped when he seen me running two os's at the same tme
[11:40] <gdh> At least there are lots of people who *can* write good pr3l
[11:40] <nikkia> gdh, there are?
[11:40] <gdh> There are, yes.
[11:40] <nikkia> gdh, it all looks like linenoise to me :P
[11:40] <gdh> That's part of the "beauty", apparently.
[11:40] <mart> good perl - I don't believe such a thing exists!
[11:40] <gdh> I write perl like it's BASIC, but I'm ad admin not a coder.
[11:41] <buz> if good includes easily understandable, no probably not
[11:42] <delltony> hopefully this vmware thing will work i'm getting it off the work server right now so we will see the boss went and bought it cause i told him i wasn't putting windows on my system unless it was ia s hell
[11:43] <delltony> amazed he did't tell me to bork off
[11:43] <delltony> but he is a cool guy
[11:43] <delltony> dude owns his own jet which is freakin amazin
[11:43] <gdh> delltony: It's funny, you can almost buy another Dell Dimension for the price of VMWare Workstation :)
[11:43] <delltony> yeah no kiddin
[11:44] <gdh> there's 'qemu' .. which I've never got working ... not that I tried very hard, mind.
[11:44] <delltony> like when i was in college the prof said we needed to buy office xp
[11:44] <delltony> i told him let me see if i can get approved on a second morgage on my home
[11:44] <gdh> damn straight. 350 for an Office suite is a fuqn joke.
[11:45] <delltony> qemu  i tried didn't like it
[11:46] <delltony> reason kept crashing
[11:46] <gdh> fair enough - sounds like the same experience as me
[11:46] <delltony> oh one thing that i like about vmware
[11:46] <gdh> tried win98, 2k and xp ISOs with it... never got a usable install.
[11:46] <delltony> not sure if you ever heard of paltalk
[11:46] <gdh> only as a name- no idea what it's about
[11:46] <delltony> but i use to have an account with them to watch the gals and all strip on webcam and all (you just pay for the bandwidth fee thats it)
[11:46] <delltony> well anyway since i ran it in a vmware it can't modify the registry and all that good stuff cause of the snapshots
[11:46] <gdh> ah, k.
[11:47] <delltony> so i just load it up and bam get it again i thought i couldn't but tried and low and behold i still can
[11:47] <delltony> haha
[11:47] <delltony> i don't know i'm a perv i guess but you have real women on cam willing to show hell yeah i'm gonna look
[11:48] <gdh> wow, humanity has certainly evolved again if Usenet isn't good enough now...
[11:48] <delltony> and i know they are real cause i have called a few and actually went and played "pleasure technician" with them
[11:48] <delltony> man usenet rocks once again 
[11:48] <delltony> well with the aid of newzbin
[11:48] <gdh> I think you'r e in the wrong channel... :)
[11:49] <gdh> (yes, all hail to the nzb...)
[11:49] <delltony> yeah otherwise you would spend days just running a filter to get rid of crap
[11:49] <jpowers> hmm
[11:49] <jpowers> I don't have that problem
[11:50] <gdh> jpowers: You're married? :)
[11:50] <delltony> you don't have the problem of spam out the ying yang always wanting you to go see some gal that claims to be your neighbor
[11:50] <jpowers> I have that problem
[11:50] <jpowers> I'm not married
[11:51] <delltony> my girlfriends last name is jpeg
[11:51] <jpowers> I guess I just don't have a problem with crap on newsgroups
[11:51] <gdh> nuse for me provides interesting software. as far as porn goes... well... there's only so many times you can see the same stick going into a hole... it gets a bit boring...
[11:51] <jpowers> Most of the places I go on usenet are pretty crap-free
[11:52] <delltony> well speaking of sex that poses a quote i came up with
[11:52] <delltony> programming is like sex, make one mistake and your supporting it for years
[11:52] <jpowers> gdh: I think the lesson is...look at a different stick sometimes...  change it up a little.
[11:52] <jpowers> heh
[11:52] <jpowers> ouch
[11:52] <nikkia> delltony, wow, you must be old
[11:53] <nikkia> delltony, cos i've been hearing that one since '79, and i had reason to believe it was old as the hills THEN
[11:53] <gdh> nikkia: :)
[11:57] <delltony> nikkia, yeah i'm a little old 30
[11:57] <delltony> oh question since i have vmware 4.2 on here if i install vmware 5.0 on here will it overwrite the 4.2 or do i have to uninstall the old or what?
[11:57] <nikkia> delltony, then i doubt you invented that phrase :P
[11:58] <gdh> delltony: Try it - it will ask if there's a problem.
[11:58] <nikkia> delltony, it overwrites
[12:01] <boga> I suggest kubuntu developers include the following script in Kubuntu by default to beutify fonts. What do you think? The script follws: -
[12:01] <delltony> nikkia, i was only kiddin about inventing the phrase
[12:01] <boga> here we go: http://vigna.dsi.unimi.it/webFonts4Linux/webFonts. sh
[12:02] <mart> anyone notice kwallet breaking after upgrading breezy to 3.4.2?
[12:05] <QMario> Does anyone here know what video cards are supported with KUbuntu?
[12:06] <_StarScream> QMario:  same ones that are supported with any other distro
[12:07] <QMario> _StarScream, what about the 'CHAINTECH SLV3-128 Video Card'?
[12:07] <QMario> I am using KUbuntu right now, but the color on my screen is skewed.
[12:08] <_StarScream> QMario: what chipset does it use?
[12:08] <QMario> I am also using that particular video card.
[12:08] <QMario> Volari V3   
[12:09] <_StarScream> QMario: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-449436.html
[12:09] <gdh> QMario: the answer to 'what chipset' will invariably be 'ati' or 'nvidia' ...
[12:09] <_StarScream> gdh: not true
[12:09] <gdh> no?
[12:09] <_StarScream> gdh: volari is a chipset
[12:09] <gdh> it is?
[12:09] <gdh> wow :)
[12:09] <_StarScream> gdh: also there are lots of other cards, matrox etc..
[12:10] <_StarScream> sis
[12:10] <gdh> My gfx is provided by a matrox mystique 220....
[12:10] <gdh> that should give you an idea of how close attention I pay to vga cards...
[12:12] <QMario> So you are saying that this video card will not work in Linux?