[12:08] <Burgundavia> it also looks like all the gnome live cds that gnome is going to be handing out will be able to turn into Ubuntu installs
[12:08] <HiddenWolf> Burgundavia: really? cool!
[12:11] <Keybuk> whoah, the font size issue _WAS_ gtk bug!
[12:12] <Mez> Keybuk, fint size?
[12:12] <Mez> lol
[12:21] <jdub> HiddenWolf: preview release has been same day in the past (it'll be a day or two after now though)
[12:21] <HiddenWolf> jdub: yeah, i figured i was being stupid.
[12:21] <jdub> HiddenWolf: then a month of stabilisation and bug fixing until our final release (which ends up being roughly the gnome point release)
[12:22] <HiddenWolf> jdub: thanks
[12:23] <jdub> anytime
[12:24] <jdub> except shower time
[12:24] <jdub> which is now
[12:27] <jdub> i managed to tear my finger tip open this morning
[12:27] <jdub> right middle
[12:27] <jdub> very annoying for the typing
[12:27] <whiprush> type with pencils like the fly did.
[12:27] <jdub> *click*click*click* OW! *click*click*click* OW!
[12:40] <HiddenWolf> jdub: be careful then! The community is counting on you being able to type straight. :)
[12:48] <Lathiat>  jdub ouch
[12:49] <Lathiat> ok who knwos dbus
[12:49] <Lathiat> i have some code taht wont work and i cant figure out why
[12:49] <Lathiat> the other send sends the reply, but i get a reply with no arguments
[12:49] <Lathiat> and there is no error condition
[12:49] <Lathiat> (other than it has 0 arguments)
[12:49] <Lathiat> it was working before and lasttime i had this problem it was because i was passing NULL instead of an error variable
[01:13] <Lathiat> zyga: west australian internet exchange
[01:13] <Lathiat> zyga: where most ISPs in my city connect to pass traffic between each other as oposed to international transit
[01:14] <infinity> Why would anyone want to talk to someone else in WA?
[01:14] <tseng> there is more than one person?
[01:15] <Lathiat> heh
[02:10] <infinity> Hrm, don't you hate thinking "Gee, I knew I forgot something" about 5 seconds after typing "dupload *changes"?
[02:10] <infinity> I know I do.
[02:10] <infinity> Oh well, no -v option to dpkg-genchanges just means a short and uninformative email to -changes, could be worse.
[02:10] <crimsun> yeah, it bit me once when I didn't have ubuntu defined, so it uploaded to ftp-master. D'oh!
[02:11] <infinity> I remove the default from dupload.conf intentionally to prevent that.
[02:11] <infinity> So I MUST specify --to debian or --to ubuntu to upload.
[02:11] <daniels> infinity: my dput is two-fold, and involves an scp to chinstrap first, so I have a few seconds.
[02:11] <infinity> (And since I upload to both, that's kinda important)
[02:12] <infinity> Why the two-hop approach?.. What have you got against anonymous ftp uploads?
[02:12] <infinity> (Or just the fear of broken connections leading to having to upload the whole mess again, because the ubuntu queue doesn't keep files around like the debian one does?)
[02:13] <mxpxpod> is mpeg_encode in any ubuntu package?
[02:14] <jammcq> hey guys, mdz has asked me to try out his latest ltsp stuff in breezy. But first, I need to transform this hoary box to be breezy.  any pointers to how to setup the apt/sources file?
[02:15] <jdub> jammcq: :%s/hoary/breezy/ :-)
[02:15] <jammcq> that's it ?
[02:15] <jdub> jammcq: you going to oscon as well as lwe?
[02:15] <jdub> yeah
[02:15] <jammcq> nope
[02:15] <jammcq> not this year :(
[02:15] <jdub> then apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade -u
[02:15] <jdub> ahr
[02:15] <jammcq> i was at ols, and just can't be gone that much
[02:15] <jdub> well, i will see you at lwe anyway :)
[02:16] <jammcq> yeah, looking forward to it
[02:16] <jammcq> jdub: you in portland now ?
[02:16] <infinity> jammcq : Save a copy of /usr/X11R6/bin/mkfont*, s/hoary/breezy/ in sources.list, apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade, copy those two binaries to /usr/bin (and /usr/X11R6/bin, some stuff still looks there), install xkbutils, pat self on back.
[02:16] <daniels> infinity: no, no, no
[02:16] <daniels> jammcq: don't listen to infinity.  just make sure you install xkbutils, xrdb, xprop, xauth and xinit when you're done.
[02:16] <daniels> infinity: i fixed mkhost* yesterday
[02:16] <infinity> daniels : Oh, mkfont* came back while I was away from the keyboard?
[02:16] <jdub> jammcq: sydney, surry hills office ;)
[02:17] <jammcq> jdub: isn't oscon starting like now ?
[02:17] <jdub> sort of
[02:17] <jdub> tuesday evening is the proper kick off
[02:17] <jammcq> ah
[02:17] <jdub> mon/tues are tutorials and stuff
[02:18] <robertj_> it seems like there are entirely too many cons these days ;)
[02:18] <jdub> plus, being in the future, i get to leave on monday and arrive on monday
[02:18] <infinity> daniels : Dude, I see no mkfont binaries anywhere, except the ones I copied from hoary.
[02:18] <mxpxpod> why isn't ucbmpeg in powepc?
[02:18] <robertj_> it seems like Jeff is a full-time convention attender these days ;)
[02:18] <jdub> not as bad as mako... yet
[02:19] <lexhider> daniels: has xfonts made it through yet?
[02:20] <daniels> lexhider: *cough* no
[02:20] <daniels> infinity: yeah, well, give it an hour
[02:20] <robertj_> are things going to be more or less tame by the next colony release?
[02:21] <infinity> That's the plan.
[02:21] <infinity> daniels : xfonts-core is FTBFS.
[02:21] <daniels> infinity: hence 'yeah, well, give it an hour'
[02:21] <infinity> daniels : <smirk>
[02:22] <daniels> robertj_: kamion can't really release a colony if nothing works.
[02:41] <lamont> daniels: you around?
[02:41] <lamont> n
[02:42] <lamont> nm, even
[02:42] <Amaranth> woo, smeg 0.8 might actually see the light of day
[02:42] <Burgundavia> that is nice
[02:42] <Amaranth> i've got all of the new framework stuff setup again, i just need to copy chunks of code over to it
[02:43] <Amaranth> and then add the new features again
[02:46] <lamont> any console-data literate folks around?
[02:53] <lamont> Keybuk: you really here, or bouncing?
[02:53] <Keybuk> really here
[02:53] <Keybuk> what's up?
[02:54] <mxpxpod> daniels: ping
[03:03] <mxpxpod> Amaranth: did you get anywhere with the firefox bug I pointed out?
[03:03] <Amaranth> mxpxpod: Haven't looked at it at all, honestly.
[03:03] <Amaranth> I know absolutely nothing about firefox.
[03:04] <mxpxpod> heh, that's ok
[03:04] <daniels> mxpxpod: pong
[03:04] <mxpxpod> daniels: I've got a strange bug with firefox
[03:04] <daniels> mxpxpod: what's up?
[03:04] <mxpxpod> daniels: http://www.reigndropsfall.net/images/firefox-font-problem.png
[03:04] <sebest> hello which package contain xmodmap on breezy?
[03:05] <daniels> sebest: none of them.  it's a sign to tell you to use xkb.
[03:06] <daniels> mxpxpod: ... the problem is that your fonts are huge?
[03:06] <mxpxpod> daniels: just in firefox...
[03:06] <mxpxpod> daniels: it's like firefox as an application doesn't respect either the dpi or the font setting of gnome
[03:07] <OddAbe19> wait... X is alot less broken? what still needs fixing?
[03:07] <Amaranth> OddAbe19: mkfontdir
[03:07] <sebest> daniels: i think i'm using xkb, but my shift keys doesn't work
[03:07] <OddAbe19> ahhh
[03:07] <OddAbe19> yay
[03:07] <Amaranth> OddAbe19: the thing that still needs fixing is the error you had
[03:08] <daniels> sebest: then your XKB is broken
[03:08] <OddAbe19> thanks check check
[03:08] <sebest> daniels: i'm using a fr beyboard, and for the moment i use xmodmap to make my shift key working again :)
[03:08] <OddAbe19> thanks
[03:08] <Amaranth> Guys, let's stop bugging daniels about keyboards and X not starting.
[03:08] <daniels> OddAbe19: if you've upgraded through breezy, it still bites
[03:08] <daniels> sebest: sudo dpkg -i --force-confmiss /var/cache/apt/archives/xkeyboard-config_0.5-3_all.deb
[03:08] <daniels> sebest: and install xkbutils
[03:09] <daniels> OddAbe19: but upgrades from hoary should be fine, unless you've customised your config
[03:09] <OddAbe19> daniels, yeah a few nights ago i felt adventourous and dist-upgraded from hoary...
[03:09] <Amaranth> o_O
[03:09] <Amaranth> upgrading from hoary is fixed?
[03:09] <OddAbe19> what changes do i have to make to a customized xorg.conf?
[03:09] <OddAbe19> now
[03:09] <daniels> OddAbe19: s#usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts#usr/share/X11/fonts#g
[03:09] <mxpxpod> OddAbe19: you have to update your keyboard config to use the kbd driver
[03:10] <daniels> Amaranth: yeah
[03:10] <mxpxpod> daniels: any clue as to what's up with firefox?
[03:10] <robertj> is that in apt-listchanges/
[03:10] <daniels> mxpxpod: no idea, sorry; don't have anything to do with that
[03:10] <OddAbe19> daniels, i did change that to kbd, but i only go gibberish with the command you posted, what was that?
[03:10] <mxpxpod> daniels: who would?
[03:10] <daniels> robertj: no, but it should probably be in NEWS.Debian
[03:10] <Amaranth> mxpxpod: talk to whoever touched firefox last
[03:10] <daniels> OddAbe19: change /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts to /usr/share/X11/fonts
[03:10] <daniels> mxpxpod: i don't think we really have a firefox maintainer at the moment, tbh
[03:10] <OddAbe19> in xorg
[03:10] <OddAbe19> cool
[03:11] <OddAbe19> thanks
[03:11] <OddAbe19> for all the font paths in xorg.conf now?
[03:11] <daniels> yeah
[03:12] <OddAbe19> thanks
[03:12] <OddAbe19> bbl
[03:12] <OddAbe19> gotta fix this
[03:12] <OddAbe19> you rock daniels and the whole team
[03:12] <OddAbe19> :-D
[03:12] <daniels> np
[03:12] <Keybuk> mmm, fist-sized fonts in firefox
[03:12] <Amaranth> couldn't he have upgraded and used dpkg-reconfigure?
[03:13] <|QuaD-> daniels.... to get xorg working, i should change all my font paths to /usr/share/X11/fonts?
[03:14] <Keybuk> fwiw, if you hard-set the firefox DPI setting to 96dpi, it draws things properly
[03:14] <Keybuk> it's a temporary hack, but it works
[03:14] <Amaranth> mmm, firefox lockup
[03:14] <daniels> |QuaD-: yes
[03:15] <|QuaD-> daniels: thanks
[03:15] <TerminX> daniels: you aren't packaging xmodmap anymore?
[03:17] <TerminX> if not, what exactly is the equiv of xmodmap -e "pointer = 1 7 3 2 6 4 5"
[03:17] <Keybuk> daniels: a bunch of entirely random keys have stopped working -- your bug, or a gnome bug?
[03:17] <sebest> keybuk what is your keymap?
[03:17] <Keybuk> xorg/pc105/gb
[03:17] <Keybuk> things like F12, and the volume keys and stuff
[03:18] <Keybuk> I _think_ it's a gnome bug, because the accelerator widget still catches them
[03:20] <daniels> Keybuk: if xev shows them with the right keycodes and symbol names, it's not my problem
[03:20] <OddAbe19> daniels, works... great... kinda... but it works. Wheel on mouse doesn't move up and down but X works, great job
[03:20] <daniels> TerminX: i'll package it later but I don't consider it massively important
[03:20] <Keybuk> daniels: which package is xev in? ;)
[03:20] <daniels> Keybuk: it isn't, as I discovered last night
[03:20] <daniels> (this is biting me too)
[03:20] <Keybuk> wonder if gnome is doing something very silly like using that
[03:21] <daniels> no way
[03:21] <TerminX> daniels: alright.. you mentioned sending notice of how to unscrew X on Breezy to ubuntu-devel and ubuntu-users, is there a timeframe for that or are you still sorting out X issues?
[03:22] <daniels> TerminX: as soon as I upload -44, which I'm still tweaking
[03:22] <Keybuk> daniels: did you pick a hell of a week to quit drinking coffee or something?
[03:22] <daniels> Keybuk: hrm?
[03:22] <sebest> daniels: it seems that changing the keyboard driver is not always enough, i had o change the XkbLayout from "fr-latin9" to "fr"
[03:22] <TerminX> daniels: alright.
[03:22] <daniels> i stopped with caffeine at about the start of april
[03:22] <daniels> so yeah, pretty much bang on 4 months ago
[03:23] <daniels> sebest: right.  some complex XKB configurations will break, as we switched to xkeyboard-config.
[03:23] <Keybuk> daniels: so xev doesn't think F12 is F12 ...
[03:23] <daniels> sebest: fr(latin9) might work
[03:23] <daniels> Keybuk: what does it think it is?
[03:23] <Keybuk> KeymapNotify event, serial 27, synthetic NO, window 0x0,
[03:23] <Keybuk>     keys:  2   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
[03:23] <Keybuk>            0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
[03:23] <Keybuk> is all you get
[03:23] <|QuaD-> daniels: i just changed my fonts to that, i am still getting the same font error
[03:23] <Keybuk> (no KeyPress/KeyRelease)
[03:24] <daniels> Keybuk: errrrrr
[03:24] <sebest> daniels: oki, i think that a lot of people that see keys "dissappearing" in bug report, is because of thing like this one
[03:24] <daniels> that's XKB sucking, then.  does setxkbmap -rules xorg -layout gb -model pc105, a) help, or b) throw an error?
[03:24] <daniels> sebest: no, it's because upgrades going through hoary completely smashed xkb.
[03:25] <Keybuk> daniels: c) neither
[03:26] <sebest> daniels: btw fr works perfectly no need for fr(latin9) :) good job!
[03:26] <Keybuk> F11, F12, "Mute", "Volume Down", "Volume Up", "Lock Screen" and "Presentation" don't work
[03:26] <|QuaD-> daniels: all my entries in my xorg.conf for fonts look similar to this "FontPath        "/usr/share/X11/fonts/misc""
[03:26] <|QuaD-> is that right?
[03:26] <daniels> Keybuk: hold on, volume up, volume down, presentation and lock screen aren't in the default UK keymap, of course
[03:27] <daniels> Keybuk: nor is mute
[03:27] <daniels> |QuaD-: yeah
[03:27] <Keybuk> right, but they should at least generate key events
[03:27] <Keybuk> they used to generate 0x[random two digits] 
[03:27] <Keybuk> here's a weird one for you...
[03:27] <|QuaD-> daniels: any idea why it wouldn't work?
[03:27] <Keybuk> F12 works if you hold down a bucky bit at the same time
[03:28] <Keybuk> Shift-F12 gives me Shift_L + F12
[03:29] <sebest> |Quad what is your problem?
[03:29] <OddAbe19> hmmm... yeah, so far, only thing, scroll wheel goes left right instead of up down
[03:29] <OddAbe19> i'll file a bug report
[03:29] <|QuaD-> sebest: could not open default font 'fixed';
[03:30] <|QuaD-> then there are other lines that follow about fonts not being configured right
[03:30] <|QuaD-> Could not init font path element unix/:7100, removing from list!
[03:30] <daniels> Keybuk: hmmm.  works for me.  you haven't got something stupid like f-lock on your keyboard, right ... ?
[03:30] <Keybuk> daniels: first thing I checked
[03:30] <daniels> Keybuk: keycodes for f11 and f12 are 95 and 96
[03:30] <daniels> Keybuk: that's really bong
[03:31] <infinity> daniels : Meh, libfontenc got NEWed to universe, not main.  xfonts-core will stay FTBFS for a while.
[03:31] <daniels> Keybuk: could you please clag me the output of setxkbmap -print?
[03:31] <daniels> infinity: bugger
[03:32] <daniels> elmo: libfontenc -> main please (it was originally in main, from xorg)
[03:32] <Keybuk> xkb_keymap {
[03:32] <Keybuk>         xkb_keycodes  { include "xfree86+aliases(qwerty)"       };
[03:32] <Keybuk>         xkb_types     { include "complete"      };
[03:32] <Keybuk>         xkb_compat    { include "complete"      };
[03:32] <Keybuk>         xkb_symbols   { include "pc(pc105)+gb+compose(rctrl)"   };
[03:32] <Keybuk>         xkb_geometry  { include "pc(pc105)"     };
[03:32] <Keybuk> };
[03:32] <Keybuk> ...dude, where is pc105 defined?
[03:32] <daniels> Keybuk: /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/pc
[03:33] <daniels> Keybuk: it includes pc104, which includes pc(basic), which has the F* definitions
[03:33] <Keybuk> right
[03:33] <Keybuk> those are just type="CTRL+ALT" though?
[03:33] <lexhider> .
[03:33] <daniels> Keybuk: right, that's fine
[03:34] <Keybuk> Ctrl+Alt-F12 does nothing
[03:34] <daniels> the only difference between our maps is that I have compose(ralt) and ctrl(nocaps) also
[03:34] <Keybuk> weird
[03:34] <daniels> Keybuk: you did --force-confmiss xkeyboard-config, right?
[03:34] <Keybuk> to?
[03:35] <Keybuk> I have xkeyboard-config installed
[03:35] <daniels> Keybuk: right, but xlibs's postinst was sort of deleting a lot of xkeyboard-config's conffiles
[03:35] <Keybuk> I noticed that
[03:35] <daniels> Keybuk: so sudo dpkg -i --force-confmiss /var/cache/apt/archives/xkeyboard-config_0.5-3_all.deb
[03:38] <Keybuk> nope, no luck
[03:40] <Keybuk> will have a bit more of a debug later
[03:40] <Keybuk> could still be gtk bug
[03:40] <Keybuk> the fonts thing was, so I'm not ruling it out
[03:45] <jammcq> daniels: no sign of the 'xprop' package you recommended that I install
[03:46] <daniels> jammcq: oh, it's waiting for ftpmaster intervention; don't worry about it
[03:46] <jammcq> k, thanks
[03:48] <Burgundavia> somebody just posted a bug voting idea on the IdeaPool (to replace the page itself)
[03:48] <|QuaD-> daniels: how do i get mkfontdir?
[03:49] <daniels> |QuaD-: install xfonts-utils 6.8.2.1-2 when it hits the archive
[03:50] <|QuaD-> daniels: ok, i hope that solves my problems
[03:50] <|QuaD-> do you know when that will be?
[03:51] <daniels> |QuaD-: when the UK wakes up
[03:52] <daniels> |QuaD-: it's waiting on manual intervention
[03:52] <|QuaD-> daniels: alright, thanks for all your help
[03:52] <daniels> np
[03:53] <Amaranth> daniels: ooh, we get mkfont* and update-font-dir back?
[03:53] <sebest> what about adding this to the channel topic : " Over 5 lines? Pastebin: http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste" ?
[03:53] <Amaranth> when the UK wakes up? they just went to bed :/
[03:54] <daniels> Amaranth: update-fonts-dir never went away
[03:54] <Amaranth> err
[03:54] <Amaranth> then i wrote over the copy in breezy :P
[03:55] <daniels> it's been in xfonts-utils for ever
[03:55] <daniels> but in /usr/bin rather than /usr/X11R6/bin
[03:56] <Amaranth> err, it was in /usr/sbin/ in hoary
[04:00] <daniels> oh, cool
[04:09] <jammcq> daniels: sorry to bother you, but the upgrade to breezy is done, but the keyboard doesn't work in X
[04:10] <lamont> vim ftbfs... sigh
[04:11] <daniels> jammcq: have you got xkbutils installed?
[04:11] <jammcq> yepper
[04:12] <daniels> jammcq: got xkeyboard-config installed?
[04:12] <jammcq> yep
[04:14] <daniels> jammcq: any output from setxkbmap -rules xorg -model pc104 -layout us?
[04:15] <jammcq> well, I get 'Cannot open display 'default display', cuz X isn't running
[04:19] <jammcq> daniels: btw, this is on a laptop, fresh install of hoary, then the upgrade to breezy. nothing would be lost, if I had to start over
[04:20] <lamont> daniels: libcaca is it's fault, not xorg's, right?
[04:20] <lamont> checking for X11/XKBlib.h... no
[04:20] <lamont> configure: error: cannot find X11 development files
[04:22] <daniels> lamont: libxkbfile-dev, IIRC
[04:22] <lamont> woot
[04:22] <daniels> yeah
[04:23] <daniels> jammcq: if the server's not starting, I'd need the logfile.  if it's a custom config, you need to change /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts to /usr/share/X11/fonts in xorg.conf.
[04:24] <jammcq> nothing custom, other than I changed the Fontpath to point to my xfs, cuz mkfontdir wasn't there
[04:24] <lamont> jammcq: that would be "custom"
[04:24] <lamont> --> changed xconfig fie
[04:24] <lamont> file
[04:24] <jammcq> :)
[04:24] <jammcq> point taken
[04:24] <lamont> md5sum can't tell _what_ you changed.
[04:24] <jammcq> ah
[04:25] <Amaranth> dpkg-reconfigure should fix it
[04:25] <jammcq> which pkg ?
[04:25] <Amaranth> xserver-xorg
[04:25] <Amaranth> it'll remake the xorg.conf file
[04:26] <jammcq> but then it'll fail becuase of the fonts missing
[04:27] <jammcq> http://www.McQuil.com/Xorg.0.log 
[04:39] <lamont> daniels: XOpenDisplay lives where?
[04:40] <lamont> nm
[04:41] <lamont> configure:5201: checking for XOpenDisplay in -lX11
[04:41] <lamont> configure:5231: gcc -o conftest -g -O2  -DOPTIMISE_SLANG_PALETTE=1  conftest.c -lX11 -lXt -L  >&5
[04:41] <lamont> how very, um, interesting
[04:44] <bddebian> hehe
[04:44] <daniels> lamont: in libX11
[04:44] <bddebian> Wasn't libcaca on MOTUToMerge?
[04:44] <lamont> yeah - it includes that, but it gets kinda lost looking for libs...
[04:44] <lamont> well, it's in _main_
[04:45] <bddebian> That's strange
[04:45] <daniels> jammcq: so your server is actually started ... why can't you run setxkbmap?
[04:46] <jammcq> the keyboard isn't responding
[04:46] <jammcq> via gdm, I can't login.  I turned off gdm, and run 'startx', and keyboard does nothing
[04:47] <daniels> ah, ok
[04:47] <daniels> try changing your driver to Driver "kbd"
[04:48] <jammcq> it already is 'kbd'
[04:54] <daniels> jammcq: so your keyboard is totally dead ... hm
[04:54] <jammcq> well,   Ctrl-Alt-Backspace works
[04:54] <daniels> interesting
[04:54] <jammcq> yeah
[04:54] <daniels> first I've heard of something like that
[04:54] <daniels> if you can SSH in and run setxkbmap -rules xorg -model pc104 -layout us, against it, does that help
[04:54] <jammcq> i'll try that now
[04:55] <daniels> lamont: oh, I bet I know what the libcaca issue is
[04:56] <daniels> lamont: it's including -L$xlibdir unconditionally
[04:56] <daniels> but $xlibdir will be blank if they're in /usr/lib
[05:02] <jammcq> daniels: ok, no output
[05:02] <jammcq> I had to add '-ac' to the serverargs in startx
[05:03] <daniels> jammcq: has your keyboard situation improved now?
[05:03] <lamont> daniels: sounds about right
[05:03] <jammcq> nope
[05:03] <lamont> daniels: in any case, #13119
[05:03] <daniels> jammcq: if not, two things to try -- first one, paste me the output of setxkbmap -print in /msg; secondly, try sudo dpkg -i --force-confmiss /var/cache/apt/archives/xkeyboard-config_0.5-3_all.deb
[05:03] <daniels> lamont: yeah, I saw it go past
[05:03] <jammcq> k
[05:34] <mdz> tseng: new packages for universe are OK with me for most of the remainder of the release cycle
[05:40] <jammcq> mdz: hey, i'm installing ltsp, based on your howto
[05:41] <mdz> jammcq: thanks for taking the time to play with it
[05:42] <jammcq> i shoulda done it sooner, but you know how it is
[05:43] <mdz> very much so
[05:54] <jammcq> mdz: got an error:
[05:54] <jammcq>    Errors were encountered while processing:
[05:54] <jammcq>   /var/cache/apt/archives/xlibs_6.8.2-43_all.deb
[05:54] <jammcq> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[05:55] <bddebian> \sh: My hero!
[05:58] <\sh> hey bddebian 
[05:59] <mdz> jammcq: that's a bug for daniels
[06:00] <jammcq> daniels was already extremely helpful getting my hoary box upgraded to breezy
[06:01] <mdz> jammcq: he'll need a full transcript of the upgrade in order to analyze it; it might be a bug he has already fixed in the version he'll upload tomorrow
[06:01] <daniels> yeah, in this case it is
[06:01] <jammcq> so, to re-start this tomorrow, do I just re-run the client-build ?
[06:01] <daniels> (i often don't see things until this window bings purple)
[06:39] <fabbione> morning
[06:40] <fabbione> jammcq: yo :)
[06:40] <fabbione> jammcq: i did add fuse to the kernel on your request. i hope the 2.3.0 version is ok with you
[06:41] <sladen> scary fuse goodness
[06:41] <fabbione> sladen: it's going upstream anyway
[06:42] <sladen> fabbione: excellent
[07:29] <pitti> Good morning
[07:29] <Amaranth> morning
[07:29] <bob2> hey pitti
[07:30] <Burgundavia> morning
[07:30] <sivang> morning all
[07:45] <niran> is there any correlation between package names and launchpad product names?
[07:45] <bob2> sadly, not in general
[07:45] <bob2> source package names mostly match with lp names
[07:46] <niran> but there's no foolproof way to get to the launchpad page for a package?
[07:46] <Amaranth> from a source package, yes
[07:46] <bob2> perhaps it's linked from soyuz
[07:46] <bob2> we had to go back and match source package <-> lp names after the fact
[07:47] <niran> ah, i see
[07:47] <bob2> presumably someone made use of that mass of data ;)
[07:48] <niran> i've been poking around trying to see what data i can use
[07:49] <niran> but sadly, the only useful i can find i can't actually use because of a gtkmozembed bug
[07:49] <niran> useful info, that is
[07:51] <Amaranth> niran: working on gnome-app-install 2.0? :)
[07:51] <niran> Amaranth, heh, yeah
[07:51] <niran> Amaranth, i think it's pretty useful at this point
[07:59] <pitti> Hey JaneW 
[08:00] <sivang> pitti: Hi Martin, What's up?
[08:00] <pitti> Hi sivang
[08:03] <sivang> pitti: do you know how I can see changes of the last update to a baz archive? (baz annotate seems to give me everything)
[08:03] <pitti> sivang: get-changeset and show-changeset?
[08:03] <sivang> pitti: k, thanks
[08:03] <pitti> sivang: or just a quick overview with logs?
[08:04] <sivang> pitti: how do I produce the logs?
[08:04] <pitti> sivang: baz logs -s
[08:04] <sivang> pitti: cool, thanks :)
[08:06] <Amaranth> niran: You're doing that in Python?
[08:06] <niran> Amaranth, yeah
[08:06] <Amaranth> niran: Cool.
[08:07] <Amaranth> niran: Try not to make it as nasty as http://rafb.net/paste/results/PqVbpC62.html :)
[08:08] <sivang> pitti: have you seen jamesh lately?
[08:09] <pitti> no, I didn't
[08:10] <niran> Amaranth, haha, i have a bit of cleanup to do myself. random unclear array indices will be heaven for anyone else who tries to touch this code
[08:11] <Amaranth> hehe, i don't have lists, i have gtk.ListStores :)
[08:11] <\sh> re
[08:19] <JaneW> hi pitti
[08:21] <highvolt1ge> morning JaneW 
[08:21] <sivang> hey JaneW 
[08:22] <JaneW> hello highvolt1ge  and sivang 
[08:22] <\sh> morning JaneW 
[08:22] <JaneW> hi \sh
[08:22] <sivang> hey \sh , hungry this morning ? :)
[08:24] <\sh> sivang: hehe :) yes, but I have to chocolate bread rolls on my desk :) and a nice cup of hot coffee :)
[08:25] <ajmitch> hi
[08:59] <sivang> \sh: lol, I don't want to start describing what I have here, as Burgundavia may get hungry at us :)
[09:03] <\sh> sivang: lol..yes :) but Burgundavia has to provide me with some new .desktop files ,-) so he should be hungry for work not for food ;)
[09:10] <Burgundavia> what is this about hunger? I could use some food right now
[09:11] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: you know the rules: no fixed bugs, no breakfast
[09:11] <Burgundavia> right
[09:12] <Treenaks> I would fix a lot of bugs, if I could have my upload rights back *sigh*
[09:13] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, why did you get your upload privs yanked?
[09:14] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: no idea..
[09:14] <Burgundavia> ah
[09:14] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: I mailed elmo last week, but got no reply
[09:14] <Burgundavia> elmo is a busy guy
[09:14] <Treenaks> yes
[09:15] <Treenaks> but still :)
[09:16] <sivang> Treenaks: maybe you should use a sponser , like I always do :)
[09:17] <Treenaks> sivang: meh
[09:17] <sivang> Treenaks: You had upload rights to main and universe?
[09:17] <\sh> hmmm...just downloaded michael lynns presentatioin about the cisco exploit
[09:18] <Treenaks> sivang: universe
[09:18] <\sh> quite interessting..but old..and for this he had so many troubles now?
[09:19] <\sh> Treenaks: because of?
[09:21] <Treenaks> \sh: reading illegal information ;)
[09:21] <\sh> Treenaks: i don't see any illegal information in it..
[09:22] <\sh> but I can read out of the court papers, that cisco has more security issues in their IOS (well, who doesn't know that) that they can handle ,-)
[09:23] <\sh> hmmm...I think I will mirror this document and make it public
[09:28] <pitti> Hey mvo
[09:29] <mvo> good morning pitti 
[09:29] <sivang> morning mvo, how are you today?
[09:30] <mvo> sivang: morning! a bit tired, but otherwise fine :)
[09:37] <\sh> ok...I just p*ssed cisco and iss of ,-)
[09:38] <Burgundavia> \sh, mirror the lynn stuff?
[09:38] <\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/70-Michael-Lynns-Presentation.html
[09:38] <\sh> yepp
[09:39] <doko__> elmo: please sync openoffice.org-help-de openoffice.org-help-el openoffice.org-help-en openoffice.org-help-es openoffice.org-help-fr openoffice.org-help-it openoffice.org-help-ja openoffice.org-help-ko openoffice.org-help-pt-br openoffice.org-help-sv openoffice.org-help-tr openoffice.org-help-zh-cn openoffice.org-help-zh-tw
[09:41] <\sh> coffee...
[09:41] <sivang> bon jour seb128 
[09:42] <seb128> hi mvo sivang
[09:43] <doko__> elmo: please sync pygresql python-gdchart
[09:44] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[09:45] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:47] <doko__> elmo: please sync libsigc++-2.0 libsigc++-1.2
[10:14] <sivang> JaneW: do you know if anyone is working on http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/FileManagerImprovement ?
[10:15] <Amaranth> sivang: err, that's not needed anymore with the new nautilus, i thought
[10:15] <Burgundavia> Amaranth, there are still some small things to be done
[10:15] <seb128> a lot of small thing but not really a spec for that
[10:16] <Burgundavia> I would like to see us simplfy the current UI for Breezy+1
[10:16] <seb128> using spatial you mean ?
[10:17] <sivang> seb128: ping me for those "small things" after FF , I may be interested in working on this some bits :)
[10:19] <seb128> nautilus is not easy code
[10:19] <seb128> better to work on gst maybe?
[10:20] <Burgundavia> seb128, the thunar screenie, we are almost there
[10:22] <sivang> Burgundavia: what is the rhunar screenie ?
[10:22] <sivang> s/rhunar/thunar/
[10:23] <Burgundavia> http://thunar.xfce.org/wiki/media/ui/suggestion-20050320/shortcuts_buttons.png
[10:23] <sivang> seb128: in nautilus, the hard part is probably the plugins stuff?
[10:23] <seb128> what plugin?
[10:23] <seb128> this screenshoot is ugly
[10:24] <sivang> seb128: no specific ones, I mean, becasue you can use it as a shell for other apps, etc..
[10:24] <sivang> Burgundavia: what is this screenshot of?
[10:24] <Burgundavia> sivang, a new file manager being worked on for XFCE
[10:30] <sivang> Burgundavia: nice
[10:30] <Burgundavia> jdub spotted it
[10:30] <sivang> seb128: and you can have apps do nautilus integration
[10:30] <sivang> seb128: (become part of nautilus)
[10:33] <seb128> elmo: intltool gdesklets gdesklets-data loudmonth libgtk2-perl (experimental) syncs please
[10:33] <seb128> sivang: no, you can't
[10:33] <Burgundavia> seb128, don't you mean loudmouth ?
[10:34] <seb128> Burgundavia: yep, typo
[10:34] <Burgundavia> seb128, would you mind taking a quick look at screem. The new version in Debian fixes some crashers that myself and others I am seeing
[10:34] <Burgundavia> s/I am/are
[10:35] <seb128> Burgundavia: I'm too busy for that, it's blocked by UVF and I don't use it
[10:35] <Burgundavia> seb128, ok
[10:35] <seb128> but feel free to try the new version, list what it fixes and ping mdz with your rationnal
[10:35] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:36] <sivang> seb128: I see the evince patch has both the configure changes and the code in, would you like me to split this one up as well ? (as I'm doing this for file-roller)
[10:37] <sivang> seb128: that is, the resulting auto-fo(s) and the directive that created them are split, but the code and the PKG_CHECK directive are in the same patch
[10:38] <seb128> "has both the configure changes and the code in"?
[10:38] <seb128> what does that mean?
[10:38] <seb128> oh
[10:38] <seb128> I explained to you the other day ...
[10:38] <seb128> lemme me start again :(
[10:38] <seb128> s/lemme/let/
[10:39] <seb128> configure.in is not likely to change on every update
[10:39] <seb128> configure is
[10:39] <seb128> so there 1 one patch for the code/configure.ac changes and one for the autotools
[10:43] <sivang> seb128: ah ok, now I get it right
[10:44] <sivang> seb128: is there anything wrong in the way I ask you that causes you to answer me wrongly? I want to improve my question asking abilities :)
[10:44] <seb128> you ask the same questions again and again
[10:45] <seb128> I've explained already 2 times why I split the patches
[10:45] <seb128> and we discussed that with pitti here too
[10:45] <sivang> seb128: right :-(
[10:45] <sivang> seb128: somehow I didn't get the fact the .in and the result were different things
[10:45] <seb128> one is source file, the other is generated by the tools
[10:46] <sivang> seb128: I know, but I deduced wrongly that the changes for those both go in one place, since when you said "autofo is likely to change" I automatically reasoned that for both .in and results
[10:46] <sivang> seb128: ah well, at least now I will have final patche ready like needed.
[10:47] <seb128> a source file is not likely to change if you don't modify it
[10:47] <seb128> a generate file ...
[10:47] <sivang> ok
[10:59] <sivang> seb128: but acutally, when I think of it - if I didn't ask that question now (about the inclairity) I would have wasted another cycle of patch creation, so I'd like again to ask you to bare with this, and try give all the relevant info on the first time I ask you, please. (I wish I already knew all the autofu's cracks, but I do not)
[11:01] <seb128> I try to reply to the question
[11:01] <seb128> your patches change the configure.ac and the configure so I guessed you knew what you were changing and why
[11:08] <pitti> daniels: ping
[11:09] <sivang> seb128: I knew that I was changing the PKG_CHECK_MODULES directive in the source file and I knew this would trigger a change in the resulting output files, but when we talked about the "moving targets" I assumed that the source spec might change as well - how should I have reasoned otherwise? (I'm not bugging, just want to learn)
[11:11] <seb128> the sources files changes too
[11:12] <seb128> but less often than autogenerated file than are updated on every update
[11:14] <sivang> seb128: so why not having 3 patches? one for the C code, 1 for the .in changes and one for the output, that would allows us maximum flexiability
[11:15] <seb128> because 1 patch for the sourcecode and one for the generated code is enough
[11:15] <seb128> you want to make a different patch by .c or .h maybe?
[11:16] <seb128> there is a just middle between, that was the discussion with pitti friday
[11:17] <pitti> sivang: splitting .in changes and C code changes does not make sense if they really belong together ("I want to add this feature")
[11:17] <pitti> sivang: the point is not to split patches up to the smallest possible units, but to group them by feature or bug fix
[11:17] <Amaranth> woo
[11:17] <Amaranth> i got a GNOME CVS account for smeg
[11:18] <sivang> pitti: ok
[11:18] <pitti> mvo: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/m/mozilla/mozilla_1.7.10-0ubuntu1/ is empty, any idea?
[11:19] <mvo> pitti: no, but I can check
[11:21] <pvanhoof> http://www.pvanhoof.be/informatics_is_like_music.php -- have fun
[11:22] <mvo> pitti: I regenerate it now, it should be avalable in ~30min
[11:23] <pitti> mvo: thanks
[11:29] <sivang> pvanhoof: wow
[11:29] <pvanhoof> yea, I'm crazy :)
[11:30] <sivang> pvanhoof: no, I really like the bottom line
[11:30] <sivang> pvanhoof: very good
[11:30] <pvanhoof> thanks
[11:32] <Amaranth> good night all
[11:34] <sivang> night Amaranth 
[11:46] <mvo> pitti: changelog should be available now
[11:46] <pitti> mvo: yep, thanks
[12:12] <Kamion> /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/debian-cd/tools/boot/breezy/boot-i386: line 242: syntax error: unexpected end of file
[12:12] <Kamion> oops
[12:12] <chrissturm> is there a way to fix my keyboard config in X?
[12:12] <Kamion> well, that explains why CD images haven't been building
[12:12] <Kamion> Amaranth: the language packs / openoffice.org2 thing is for daily-live builds, not daily (i.e. install)
[12:19] <Kamion> Treenaks: I don't get it. You're still in the universe upload keyring
[12:19] <Kamion> cjwatson@jackass:~$ gpg --no-default-keyring --keyring /srv/keyring.no-name-yet.com/keyrings/upload-keys.gpg --list-keys | grep Martijn
[12:19] <Kamion> pub  1024D/3FA5E031 2004-04-17 Martijn van de Streek <martijn@foodfight.org>
[12:19] <Kamion> uid                            Marinus Theodorus Gerardus van de Streek (Martijn) <martijn@facecrime.net>
[12:19] <Treenaks> Kamion: weird
[12:20] <Treenaks> shall I try again?
[12:21] <Kamion> Treenaks: what did you try to upload that failed?
[12:21] <Treenaks> Kamion: lirc
[12:21] <Kamion> Rejected: lirc_0.7.0.1-1ubuntu3_source.changes: upload is signed by 0x66EF84C6B7B551F4C18D5EF80DA7EFA33FA5E031 but is not in the Maintainer keyring.
[12:21] <Kamion> Rejected: lirc_0.7.0.1-1ubuntu3.dsc: upload is signed by 0x66EF84C6B7B551F4C18D5EF80DA7EFA33FA5E031 but is not in the Maintainer keyring.
[12:21] <Kamion> Treenaks: lirc source is in main, not universe
[12:22] <Treenaks> Kamion: it is?
[12:22] <Treenaks> Kamion: Section: universe/utils
[12:22] <Kamion> Treenaks: source, not binary
[12:22] <Treenaks> oh wait
[12:22] <Treenaks> that explains a lot then :)
[12:22] <Kamion> Treenaks: because liblircclient0 and liblircclient-dev are in main, so the source has to be in main
[12:23] <Kamion> xine-lib build-deps on liblircclient-dev
[12:23] <Treenaks> Well, it only needs a build-dep addition (libusb-dev)
[12:24] <Kamion> can you mail me the diff?
[12:24] <Treenaks> Kamion: sure
[12:24] <Kamion> thanks
[12:32] <pitti> Kamion: oh, that reminds me again of that everlasting discussion to demote xine-lib into universe...
[12:34] <locomorto> hey
[12:34] <Kamion> daniels: libfontenc promoted to main
[12:42] <shackan> are there breezy backports yet ?
[12:42] <bob2> *for* breezy?
[12:42] <locomorto> if there was it would ahver nothing in it
[12:42] <locomorto> have*
[12:43] <shackan> bob2, for hoary ;)
[12:44] <HiddenWolf> Why would you want backports for a release that isn't stable yet, much less outdated. :P
[12:47] <azeem> HiddenWolf: upstream version freee
[12:47] <azeem> freeze, even
[12:47] <HiddenWolf> azeem: *sigh*
[12:47] <HiddenWolf> Like you'll notice that. :P
[12:49] <shackan> well, I need to update some packages but there are no new versions in hoary yet, I just hoped they were in breezy and someone backported to hoary
[12:50] <chmj> hey shackan 
[12:50] <shackan> charlie!
[12:50] <chmj> oh good 
[12:51] <chmj> wasn't sure it was you 
[12:51] <pitti> shackan: Hi
[12:52] <shackan> wow, everyone's here today...
[12:52] <pitti> shackan: I got your mail, will answer soon; just a quick note, we have the latest hal, and will have the latest dbus (daniels works on that)
[12:52] <shackan> hi pitti 
[12:52] <shackan> GREAT
[12:53] <shackan> pitti, I have 0.4.7, latest seems to be 0.5.4 or stg like that, where do I get it ? :)
[12:53] <pitti> shackan: hal 0.5.3 is in breezy
[12:53] <pitti> shackan: 0.4.7 is the hoary version
[12:53] <shackan> ok, seems I'll have to upgrade ?
[12:53] <pitti> erm, you *do* test your stuff on breezy, do you?
[12:54] <pitti> yes, you need breezy for that stuff
[12:54] <shackan> ok, I'll create a new partition later
[12:54] <shackan> kitchen needs me, brb
[12:54] <locomorto> will breezy be using the 2.6.12+ kernel? And thus udev?
[12:55] <tseng> already done
[12:55] <pitti> locomorto: we use udev since warty, and breezy has 2.6.12
[12:56] <locomorto> really? My build complains that I dont have a 2.6.12 kernel
[12:56] <shackan> pitti, use of breezy was discouraged, that's why I didn't get it yet
[12:57] <chmj> shackan: it was too much broken then, I think 
[12:57] <shackan> and now ?
[12:58] <pitti> shackan: it is discouraged for users who want a stable system, but it is necessary for developers
[12:58] <shackan> I see
[12:58] <chmj> shackan: much better, all your stuff has to work on breezy 
[12:58] <shackan> it will :)
[01:05] <j^> who can i ping if i would like to see a cvs repos showing up at http://arch.ubuntu.com/?
[01:06] <j^> in this case http://liboil.freedesktop.org/
[01:06] <Kamion> j^: lifeless leads the import team
[01:16] <pitti> Hi carstenh 
[01:16] <carstenh> hi pitti 
[01:17] <carstenh> pitti: i hope jeff is here this afternoon and he has time to talk about conffiles
[01:20] <pitti> yes :-)
[01:27] <JaneW> Mithrandir: are you the second for OOo2?
[01:28] <doko> JaneW: that needs to be defined ...
[01:29] <chmj> daniels, ping 
[01:30] <JaneW> doko: I see his name is there, but I think I did that last week, just cos you said he was to complete required amd64 bits...
[01:30] <JaneW> doko: I put your updated in the wiki btw
[01:30] <JaneW> updates
[01:31] <doko> JaneW: many thanks, maybe I should just install an alternative browser :)
[01:35] <JaneW> doko: apparent;ly breezy solves the problem...? I know I had the same problem when I had flash installed.
[01:36] <doko> I have no flash installed ...
[01:38] <JaneW> doko: oic, then I have no idea
[01:49] <siretart> fabbione: would you be interested in another sparc buildd? I a friend would like to offer hardware and hosting
[02:09] <JaneW> does anyone have an e-mail address for jsgotangco?
[02:10] <Treenaks> JaneW: PGP key A97B69A0, which lists jgotangco@gmail.com
[02:10] <JaneW> Treenaks: cool, thanks :)
[02:35] <sivang> seb128: I give you lp-integration for file-roller sacrifice oh might Seb god of gnome, I hope it is of your liking - http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/lpint/file-roller/
[02:36] <sivang> seb128: :)
[02:36] <retrix> if anyone has some spare time and is interested in testing an ndiswrapper gui, my summer of code project is available at http://www.users.on.net/~spohlenz/ubuntu/
[02:36] <retrix> could really do with some feedback :)
[02:37] <jordi> pitti: ping
[02:37] <pitti> Hey jordi 
[02:37] <jordi> pitti: hi!
[02:37] <sivang> yo jordi 
[02:38] <jordi> how's alsa doing in breezy? Any problems reported?
[02:38] <jordi> hi sivang 
[02:38] <pitti> jordi: no major breakages so far :)
[02:38] <jordi> pitti: I could build it for Debian now
[02:38] <jordi> ok, uploading then :)
[02:40] <elmo> doko: wtf is openoffice.org2-filter-so52?
[02:40] <elmo> ajmitch: ?
[02:40] <doko> elmo: staroffice 5.2 import filters
[02:41] <elmo> doko: are they really binary files as the package description implies?
[02:41] <doko> yes
[02:42] <elmo> and you uploaded them for main?
[02:43] <doko> elmo: good question, maybe let them stay in universe, it's not something we should support, but it's there
[02:43] <elmo> dude, are you screwing with me, or do you have a different definition of binary?
[02:43] <elmo> (as in without source)
[02:45] <siretart> elmo: could you please pull piuparts from sid to universe?
[02:45] <doko> elmo: sorry? the package contains shared libs, which are dlopened
[02:46] <elmo> doko: is there source for these shared libs?
[02:46] <elmo> (if so, where?)
[02:46] <\sh> elmo: what do u need from me, to import my gpg key into the main keyring (TB approval since tuesday) thx for your info ;)
[02:46] <doko> elmo: in openoffice.org2
[02:47] <elmo> doko: why does the description call them binaries then?  and why are they split out?
[02:48] <doko> elmo: they are split out, because they are big, and almost no one needs them, at least not linux users. AFAIK staroffice 5.2 was available on Windows only
[02:49] <sivang> can anyone fire up evince tell me if he can use it's launchpad integrated items from the "Help" menu?
[02:49] <sivang> (Seems to have a permission problem)
[02:49] <doko> elmo: maybe the description can be better worded
[02:50] <sivang> see if the browser if started at the launchapd url, thx
[02:50] <elmo> siretart: done
[02:50] <elmo> \sh: if you mailed your details to keyring that should be fine
[02:51] <elmo> doko: please at least fix the "binary" stuff, it makes me want to run away screaming
[02:51] <mjg59> elmo: Have you added my key to the keyring?
[02:51] <pitti> Hi elmo
[02:51] <siretart> thanks!
[02:51] <doko> elmo: already, thought you wanted to stay until I did duplicate the oo2 source ;)
[02:51] <doko> elmo: will fix
[02:53] <whiprush> sivang: I have the launchpad stuff in my evince.
[02:55] <doko> elmo: is there a way for a package (beeing built on a buildd) to know, if it should be binary-all packages as well?
[02:55] <elmo> doko: no - and you really shouldn't need to know stuff like that
[02:57] <doko> elmo: ok. did you get my mail about duplicating the ooo2 source package to build the language packs from one package, and the binaries from the other one?
[02:59] <aigarius> retrix, just to nitpick on you packaging - Section: base seams a bit bold to me - net or gnome would propably be better. other that that it looks nice and simple. any other functionality planned?
[03:01] <elmo> doko: oh, christ, that
[03:02] <retrix> aigarius, thanks, still working on the packaging
[03:03] <retrix> aigarius, still need to implement basic help, and automatically loading ndiswrapper -m
[03:03] <retrix> aigarius, other than that, im keeping it simple
[03:04] <aigarius> retrix, I'm in SoC too (http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleBackupSolution, http://freshmeat.net/projects/sbackup/ ). I still have lots to do this week :)
[03:05] <retrix> aigarius, ah yes, i had a look at ur project before .. its coming along well
[03:08] <seb128> elmo: intltool gdesklets gdesklets-data loudmouth libgtk2-perl (experimental) syncs please
[03:19] <janimo> elmo, ping
[03:32] <\sh> elmo: send
[03:57] <pitti> re
[03:57] <carstenh> hi pitti :)
[03:57] <daniels> Kamion: thanks alot
[03:57] <daniels> chmj: sup
[03:57] <\sh> going home...later dudes
[03:57] <chmj> daniels: dude 
[03:58] <chmj> daniels: xorg is missing xmkmf 
[03:58] <daniels> chmj: yeah, I know
[03:58] <chmj> thats breaks isdnutils 
[03:59] <Treenaks> isdnutils uses xmkmf?!
[03:59] <chmj> something like that 
[04:02] <bob2> ETOOMUCHCRACK
[04:03] <aigarius> daniels, Setting up xfonts-base (6.8.2.1-2) ... 
[04:03] <aigarius> mkfontscale: error while loading shared libraries: libfontenc.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[04:03] <daniels> FRIG
[04:03] <daniels> aigarius: sudo apt-get install libfontenc1
[04:03] <daniels> headdesk
[04:04] <aigarius> daniels, just thought that you might want to know :)
[04:05] <azeem> xisdnload uses imake
[04:05] <chrissturm> should xkb work in current xorg?
[04:17] <sivang> seb128: are you able to use evince's launchpad menu items? (I have problems testing it on my dchroot, wanna know if it happens to you)
[04:18] <daniels> aig	thanks
[04:18] <daniels> chris	yes
[04:20] <seb128> sivang: all the stuff I've uploaded work fine here
[04:20] <seb128> sivang: have you read my mail about file-roller?
[04:20] <sivang> seb128: yes, already up to it, will be ready shortly
[04:22] <seb128> k
[04:39] <pitti> elmo: please sync pdns (new upstream microrelease, but fixes two CANs, and universe)
[04:40] <sivang> seb128: then probably some missing python lib in my chroot
[04:41] <seb128> sivang: what does it say?
[04:41] <doko> pitti: do we have a policy, how the localte is determined?
[04:41] <doko> does LANGUAGE or LC_ALL win?
[04:41] <pitti> doko: in which context?
[04:41] <pitti> doko: oh, LC_ALL wins
[04:41] <mjg59> LC_ALL
[04:41] <herzi> abiword and gedit don't appear in my gnome-menu anymore, it is the same with someone else's ubuntu breezy?
[04:42] <herzi> s/it is/is it/
[04:42] <pitti> doko: well, LANGUAGE is not an official gettext variable, but something Gnomeish
[04:42] <pitti> doko: but to be similar to LANG, LC_ALL should dominate everything
[04:43] <doko> hmm, and something like de_DE should be interpreted as well, or do we need de_DE.UTF-8
[04:43] <pitti> doko: LANGUAGE should not contain an encoding
[04:43] <pitti> doko: just "de_DE" or "de"
[04:44] <pitti> as I said, it's not a gettext variable, but a Gnome h4ck
[04:44] <doko> but LC_ALL=de_DE should work?
[04:45] <sivang> seb128: Traceback (most recent call last):
[04:45] <sivang>   File "<string>", line 5, in ?
[04:45] <sivang>   File "/usr/local/share/launchpad-integration/launchpadintegration/main.py", line 57, in main
[04:45] <sivang>     print 'Name:', pkginfo.binarypackage
[04:45] <sivang> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'binarypackage'
[04:46] <doko> pitti: but LC_ALL=de_DE should work?
[04:46] <pitti> doko: no, that needs an encoding (de_DE.UTF_8)
[04:47] <pitti> doko: of course it works, but it describes the latin1 locale
[04:47] <seb128> sivang: weird ... why don't you use the package?
[04:47] <sivang> seb128: what do you mean?
[04:47] <seb128> /usr/local
[04:47] <seb128> that's not the package
[04:48] <sivang> seb128: ah, when I tried using it from evince for exmaple, I got jamesh's error handeling message "Error showing url: There was an error launching the default action command associated with this location.
[04:48] <sivang> "
[04:48] <sivang> seb128: so I figured trying the python script directly
[04:48] <martink> pitti, how come LANGUAGE is documented in the glibc manual if it's a GNOME h4ck? http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Using-gettextized-software.html#Using-gettextized-software
[04:49] <pitti> martink: oops, sorry, seems that my memory has fooled me
[04:50] <pitti> martink, doko: LANGUAGE is not documented in locale(7), the precedence rules don't mention LANGUAGE
[04:51] <janimo> elmo, please sync xfce packages listed in mail sent last week on you nocrew address, thank you
[04:51] <doko> pitti: I know, but LANGUAGE is the only thing, which is set by the installer, isn't it?
[04:51] <pitti> martink: hm, even your URL doesn't define the precedence of LANGUAGE
[04:51] <pitti> doko: no, d-i writes LANG into /etc/environment
[04:53] <doko> pitti: my last installation did have written: LANGUAGE=en_DE:en
[04:53] <pitti> doko: it didn't write LANG???
[04:54] <doko> no
[04:54] <pitti> my installations always did
[04:54] <pitti> but I always installed de_DE...
[04:54] <doko> well, will check later
[04:54] <seb128> sivang: the url error is quite normal with a chroot
[04:54] <seb128> sivang: gconftool-2 -g /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/command ?
[04:54] <doko> pitti: en_DE is selected, when you select y german keyboard, and english language
[04:55] <Kamion> doko: please file a bug (on, er, probably localechooser to start with), LANG should always be set
[04:56] <pitti> doko: crazy... en_DE is not even a supported locale...
[04:56] <Kamion> and keyboard REALLY shouldn't imply country choice!
[04:56] <sivang> seb128: mozilla-firefox %s
[04:56] <Kamion> if you selected English language and Germany as the country, that would make marginally more sense
[04:56] <Kamion> although localechooser still shouldn't select it if it's unsupported, it's meant to fall back to a supported locale
[04:57] <seb128> sivang: can you run that from your chroot?
[04:57] <crispin> hmm, is it known that xmodmap doesn't seem to exist in breezy ?
[04:58] <sivang> seb128: just found out I don't have it. /me apt-gets moz-ffox :-/
[04:59] <doko> Kamion: maybe it was country, I have to check it with a newer install. bug report openend
[05:01] <daniels> crispin: yes
[05:06] <crispin> daniels: ok :-)
[05:06] <HiddenWolf> daniels, what can I expect if I upgrade to breezy atm, lots of X pain?
[05:06] <aigarius> infinity, ping
[05:06] <sivang> seb128: that fixed that DOH
[05:06] <sivang> seb128: anyway, the finalized file-roller is up , can you give it a look and let me know if I need change another thing?
[05:07] <seb128> sure
[05:09] <daniels> HiddenWolf: largely works
[05:09] <HiddenWolf> daniels: would you advise me to wait, or is it doable?
[05:12] <pitti> ogra: !
[05:12] <pitti> nice to see you
[05:12] <Keybuk> pitti: are we going to see the "name pmount/gvm devices according to HAL" patch back in for breezy?
[05:12] <sivang> hi ogra 
[05:13] <bddebian> Hello
[05:13] <sivang> hey bddebian 
[05:13] <bddebian> Heya sivang, how are you?
[05:14] <pitti> Keybuk: what do you mean?
[05:14] <pitti> Keybuk: I get /media/<partition label>, and "Computer place" shows "OTi Flash Disk: Pitti USB"
[05:15] <pitti> Keybuk: doesn't work for you?
[05:16] <Keybuk> nope, I get /media/usbdisk where I used to get /media/iAudio
[05:16] <Keybuk> (when the patch was enabled during the hoary cycle)
[05:16] <pitti> Keybuk: but the device label is in hal?
[05:16] <pitti> Keybuk: I didn't disable anything like that in breezy
[05:17] <Keybuk> plugging in my iAudio I get a "/media/usbdisk" which appears as "37.3GB Volume" in Computer
[05:17] <daniels> HiddenWolf: entirely doable.  just remember to fix your font paths in xorg.conf.
[05:17] <pitti> Keybuk: can you please send me your "lshal" output when the device is plugged in?
[05:18] <Keybuk> sent
[05:18] <ogra> fabbione, around ? 
[05:19] <Keybuk> the volume appears under an "iAUDIO M3 Digital Audio Player" tree in h-d-m
[05:19] <pitti> ogra: he's on vac this week
[05:19] <ogra> pitti, ah.. i forgot...
[05:19] <HiddenWolf> daniels: ok, cool
[05:19] <ogra> daniels, any chance that we get ndiswrapper for amd64 in breezys l-r-m ? 
[05:20] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, where did you send the mail to?
[05:20] <bddebian> I thought with mad-wifi you didn't need ndiswrappter anymore?? ;-)
[05:20] <pitti> Keybuk: whoops, it landed in my spam folder, sorry
[05:21] <mjg59> bddebian: There are plenty of amd64 laptops with unsupported wireless cards
[05:22] <Keybuk> http://descent.netsplit.com/~scott/lshal.txt
[05:22] <mdz> morning all
[05:22] <mdz> elmo: what happened with moin1.3?
[05:22] <daniels> ogra: um, l-r-m doesn't do ndiswrapper; ndiswrapper is in a separate package.  it also happens to be entirely dfsg-free ...
[05:23] <pitti> Hey mdz
[05:23] <ogra> bddebian, does madwifi support all broadcom chipsets ? i had to use ndiswrapper here for my new card...
[05:23] <elmo> mdz: how do you mean?
[05:23] <daniels> elmo: if render and xrender source packages are still in breezy, please kill them
[05:23] <mvo> good morning mdz 
[05:23] <bddebian> I was kidding folks.. Sheesh, I really need to learn to shut-up
[05:24] <tseng> Did you mean: midwife  
[05:24] <bddebian> heh
[05:25] <Keybuk> daniels: however the result of running ndiswrapper may be violating the GPL with a chainsaw ... depending on your interpretation of "compbined work"
[05:25] <Keybuk> urgh, can't type
[05:26] <daniels> Keybuk: right
[05:26] <mjg59> Keybuk: There are GPLed NDIS drivers
[05:26] <daniels> Keybuk: but as it stands, the program itself is fine.  what you do with your own drivers that you acquire and your kernel is up to you.
[05:26] <daniels> Keybuk: as mjg59 says, the drivers you use may be entirely fine to use with the kernel.
[05:27] <bddebian> Oh you mean like copying CDs?? :-)
[05:28] <mdz> elmo: I mean that it was intended that it go into breezy, but it hasn't yet
[05:28] <mdz> elmo: doko said that he uploaded it?  I don't know if those were the Jonas packages or something else
[05:29] <martinhj> mjg59: concerning our talk about acpi-events on a travelmate 620 and me going to try a vanilla kernel: is 2.6.12.3 ok, or do I need to apply latest prepatch (or anything else)?
[05:29] <mdz> (there was a discussion about it here on 07-26)
[05:29] <daniels> bddebian: sure.  i've never burnt a CD or DVD that violated its copyright.
[05:29] <mdz> daniels: do your most recent uploads clear out the known X installation/upgrade bugs, or are there still some pending?
[05:29] <bddebian> daniels: Well that's YOU :-)
[05:30] <elmo> mdz: if he did upload it, I don't think it was to ubuntu
[05:30] <bddebian> elmo: Do whitelist requests for upload@ubuntu.com go to you?
[05:30] <daniels> mdz: still one or two pending
[05:30] <mdz> elmo: at any rate, would you make sure that moin1.3 gets into breezy?
[05:31] <mjg59> martinhj: Try 2.6.12.3 plesae, yes
[05:31] <daniels> mdz: almost all squashed though.  straight upgrades from hoary should be fine.
[05:31] <mdz> daniels: and fresh installs as well?
[05:31] <chrissturm> daniels: i have trouble with my xkb settings. cant set a german keyboard. what can i do to fix it?
[05:32] <mdz> chrissturm: #ubuntu, please
[05:32] <daniels> mdz: no, xlibs will fail to install.  i have the fix for that in hand.
[05:32] <martinhj> mjg59: gcc4 is ok?
[05:34] <mjg59> martinhj: I'd recommed 3.4
[05:35] <martinhj> mjg59: ok, I'll trie that one
[05:37] <Morgue> pitti: ping
[05:37] <pitti> Hi Morgue 
[05:38] <Morgue> hi, it's shackan here, sorry to bother you but.. I just installed breezy, it all a damn mess over here
[05:38] <pitti> dear seb128, please make rhythmbox stop crashing when I umount my usb stick :-)
[05:39] <seb128> pitti: try today's snapshot and put a backtrace to bugzilla if it crashes, thanks :)
[05:39] <pitti> rhythmbox is already the newest version.
[05:39] <seb128> 0801 ?
[05:39] <pitti> anyway, just nagging :-)
[05:39] <seb128> not sure if it has built yet
[05:40] <pitti> 0.8.8cvs20050714-0ubuntu2
[05:40] <pitti> seb128: yes, I try 0.8.1
[05:40] <seb128> k, wait for today's one, I've uploaded like 1 hour ago
[05:40] <pitti> erm, 0.8.10 then?
[05:40] <seb128> 0.8.8cvs20050801
[05:40] <pitti> ah, ok
[05:40] <seb128> that's the date :p
[05:40] <seb128> 0801 is today ;p
[05:42] <Morgue> pitti, gnome does not event start, it this a known problem ?
[05:42] <pitti> no idea
[05:42] <pitti> Morgue: did you install colony 2 and upgraded?
[05:43] <Morgue> installed colony 2 and stop
[05:43] <Morgue> can't upgrade, since the network doesn't work yet :(
[05:43] <pitti> what a mess...
[05:44] <mdz> doko: ping re: moin1.3
[05:44] <doko> mdz: should be in NEW
[05:44] <mdz> doko: it is not, and I never saw it there
[05:45] <robitaille> Morgue: Colony 2 was pretty broken for some users.  My gnome wasn't work at all either on it. Maybe install a more recent version Breezy since  a lot of changes have happens since Colony 2?  
[05:45] <doko> mdz: ahh, I see my mistake
[05:45] <mdz> doko: are we talking about the same packages (the ones that elmo used for wiki.ubuntu.com)?
[05:47] <doko> mdz: probably not. I did use the package from unstable, and packaged that as source moin1.3
[05:47] <doko> elmo: where can I find your moin1.3 package?
[05:50] <Mez> hey all :D
[05:50] <Treenaks> hey mez
[05:52] <pitti> Hi Mez 
[05:52] <Mez> evening Pitti
[05:53] <Mez> hows things?
[05:54] <pitti> reasonably, thanks :-)
[05:55] <Mez> reasonably ?
[05:55] <HiddenWolf> Guys, I've got a nautilus that's leaking memory. How do I figure out what's causing it so I can file a bug?
[05:55] <pitti> Mez: moz 1.7.11 has a broken upstream tarball, but otherwise fine :-)
[05:55] <Mez> pitti :D fun
[05:55] <pitti> Mez: they claimed they only fixed two major bugs and nothing else, and then they removed a whole source code subdirectory
[05:57] <pitti> elmo: can I please have libart-dev in concordia's breezy dchroot?
[06:00] <sivang> seb128: what's the verdict for my file-roller ? :)
[06:00] <elmo> pitti: done
[06:00] <pitti> thaks
[06:01] <seb128> sivang: uploaded
[06:01] <seb128> elmo: thanks for the syncs
[06:02] <sivang> seb128: yay!
[06:07] <seb128> mdz: could we update libexif to 0.6.12? There is a soname change, but only main Depends are "gimp gthumb libgphoto2 nautilus". Debian has it for 2 weeks with no new bug. eog requires >= 0.6.12 now, it's built without exif for the moment but that would be nice to build it with it.
[06:08] <mdz> seb128: ok, CC me on the sync request as usual
[06:10] <seb128> mdz: k, thanks
[06:10] <mdz> Riddell: regarding qca-tls, there is currently nothing (seed or dependency) to bring it into main
[06:10] <mdz> ogra: likewise for tuxpaint
[06:11] <ogra> mdz, ok
[06:11] <mdz> at least nothing that anastacia sees
[06:11] <mdz> is anastacia looking at the edubuntu seeds these days?
[06:11] <ogra> mdz, http://www.grawert.net/ldm.png
[06:11] <ogra> i guess not yet...
[06:12] <mdz> ogra: you guess?  did you talk to anyone about it (such as elmo)?
[06:12] <Mez> hmm
[06:12] <ogra> mdz, nope, else i wouldnt guess :)
[06:12] <bddebian> heh
[06:12] <mdz> ogra: very nice, re: ldm!  what branch do I merge to get that into ltsp? ;-)
[06:13] <ogra> mdz, its currently only glade stuff... i'll send you a complete patch as soon as i have a working X setup for any of my ltsp boxes over here... cant test currently
[06:14] <ogra> (and yes, i saw the hint... i'll set up a ltsp branch for myself soon ;) )
[06:16] <Mez> hmm
[06:16] <Mez> xfonts-core not fixed yet?
[06:17] <ogra> daniels, what about xlibs ? did you upload the fixed -43 ? i need it for ltsp testing...
[06:17] <seb128> sivang: when will gedit be ready for upload?
[06:26] <sivang> seb128: I need to talk with jamesh about it, either I create functions inside the helper lib to provide me with bonnobu ui action group, or I have to patch each bonnobu ui app in away that would require seperate translation of it's launchpad items per each bonnobu ui app - I'd like to hear his oppinion before going furhter with bonnobo ui apps, in the meanwhile I will continue preparing you glade / UIManager / manual apps 
[06:27] <doko> seb128: when will you build cairo using glitz?
[06:27] <sivang> seb128: what do you think, is bonnobo ui so deprected that we can just do local patches and drop them when its obsolete ?
[06:27] <sivang> mdz: what's ldm ?
[06:28] <seb128> doko: when elmo will sync glitz from Debian as said the other day
[06:28] <seb128> elmo: glitz sync please
[06:29] <seb128> sivang: that's an option
[06:29] <seb128> sivang: but you have already patched it, no? what method did you use?
[06:29] <ogra> sivang, ltsp display manager
[06:29] <seb128> doko: why do you need glitz for?
[06:29] <sivang> ogra: thx
[06:29] <ogra> sivang, the gdm for cool guys ;)
[06:29] <sivang> ogra: hehe :) nice
[06:29] <doko> seb128: OOo2
[06:31] <elmo> seb128: done
[06:31] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[06:32] <sivang> seb128: I used local patching ofcourse, however , before going to finish with the other bonnobo ui apps, I realized that whenever we change the launchapd names for actions , or change the laying of the actions (as we can change centrally in ui manager / glade) we would have to redo all the patches per all the patches apps
[06:32] <sivang> s/patches/patched/
[06:33] <seb128> have you talked with jamesh about that?
[06:33] <sivang> seb128: not yet, have emailed him about it, still got no reply
[06:34] <seb128> k
[06:34] <sivang> seb128: I think we need at least have function in the helper lib to give us the actions text, so we would be able to control it form the lib
[06:34] <sivang> seb128: that would save the translation overhead greatly
[06:34] <lamont__> doko: ping
[06:34] <seb128> right
[06:36] <doko> lamont__: pong
[06:57] <mdz> daniels: setxkbmap seems to still be unusable for me with the latest breezy
[06:57] <mdz> Error loading new keyboard description
[06:59] <mdz> daniels: hmm, not entirely, but 'setxkbmap dvorak' certainly fails, though 'setxkbmap us' works
[06:59] <mdz> daniels: how can I debug this?
[07:00] <Mez> hmm :D
[07:00] <Mez> OOo2 = broken
[07:00] <ogra> Mez, bah, who uses that... 
[07:00] <Mez> ogra, it's a dependency of ubuntu-desktop
[07:01] <ogra> Mez, first they should make it compilable on the superior arches ;)
[07:01] <ogra> i.e. amd64 ;)
[07:01] <mdz> it does compile; it just doesn't work properly
[07:01] <Mez> ogra: be nice if you could install breezy :D
[07:01] <Mez> mdz: it depends on a package that is not installable
[07:01] <ogra> mdz, oh ? thats new to me...
[07:02] <Mez>   openoffice.org2-base: Depends: libhsqldb-java (>= 1.8.0.0-2) but it is not installable
[07:03] <ogra> thats lame
[07:03] <Mez> ?
[07:03] <ogra> only a dependency breakage...
[07:03] <Mez> yeah
[07:03] <Mez> but that dep breakage breaks the whole breezy install :D
[07:04] <Kamion> it hasn't been promoted to main yet
[07:04] <Kamion> it isn't in anastacia's promotion list yet either; I assume it's new
[07:10] <carstenh> pitti,jbailey: ping
[07:11] <jbailey> carstenh: pong!
[07:11] <jasoncohen> pitti, thanks for getting the thunderbird update
[07:11] <carstenh> hi jbailey 
[07:11] <carstenh> jbailey: we need to talk about conffiles...
[07:12] <jbailey> Mmm..  chewy chewy conffiles.
[07:12] <sivang> lol
[07:13] <zul> hmmm/
[07:13] <carstenh> jbailey: let's wait until pitti pongs :)
[07:14] <jbailey> carstenh: No problem.  I'm not running out of other things to do. =)
[07:24] <carstenh> jbailey: he seems not to be here atm. he told me in a mail you also got, that he'd like to see /etc/default/firewall as a conffile. if a package disables it using firewallconfig --disable and so changes this file, would it be policy-conform?
[07:25] <carstenh> jbailey: i guess it is not a conffile it will be policy-conform
[07:27] <jbailey> If that's all that's in it, I'd rather it not be marked as a conffile, snice if the user disables it, it's then easy to accidentally say "Overwrite my changes" at a package upgrade and find yourself locked out.
[07:27] <jbailey> I'm curious why pitti thinks it ought to be.
[07:28] <jbailey> carstenh: Did you see Matt's email reply as well?
[07:28] <carstenh> jbailey: not yet, wait a minute
[07:28] <jp> jbailey, nice to see evo without 'the bug'
[07:28] <jp> heh
[07:28] <mdz> Riddell: now that we have the -backports infrastructure, is there any reason you couldn't use that for your KDE backports?
[07:29] <Mez> mdz: I've already suggested that
[07:29] <Mez> we just didnt know whether the KDE stuff would be beyond the wall eyt
[07:29] <mdz> Mez: and?
[07:29] <mdz> wall?
[07:29] <carstenh> jbailey: yes, i just read it. i will reply as soon as i know what is possible according to the policy
[07:30] <Mez> as far as I know - there are differences between the breezy and the hoary backproted versions that cant be incorporated into them both.
[07:30] <Mez> so breezy needs to be changed before it'll build on hoary :D
[07:30] <Mez> aka ... direct upload needed to backport it
[07:30] <Mez> I havent tried myself yet though... but That's what riddell said to me
[07:31] <carstenh> jbailey: what about /etc/firewall/conf, they need to change it using firewallconf too. should it be a conffile?
[07:31] <carstenh> jbailey: or should i create it in postinst?
[07:32] <carstenh> jbailey: and more important, is it allowed to change it for them using a script?
[07:32] <mdz> Riddell: I'm interested in the details
[07:33] <carstenh> jbailey: s/a script/a script provided by our package/
[07:33] <jbailey> jp: Ah, is it fixed in the uploads seb did on the weekend?
[07:34] <Mez> mdz, lemme see if I can find the logs
[07:34] <jp> jbailey it's was fixed on 2.3.5 release
[07:37] <carstenh> jbailey: i have to buy something to eat now. i will be back in 20 minutes
[07:37] <jbailey> carstenh: I don't like how easy it is to accidentally wipe out a configuration file with conffile handling.  I get nervous at the idea of suddenly having a pile of firewall policy wiped because the sysadmin got asked a question (s)he didn't understand.
[07:38] <carstenh> jbailey: so i should create it in postinst and update it in portinst if nessessary and not mark it as conffile
[07:39] <carstenh> jbailey: back in 20 minutes...
[07:39] <jbailey> carstenh: That's what I think, but if pitti thinks otherwise, I'd be interested in hearing why.
[07:43] <ogra> elmo, can you sync bum from sid please
[07:44] <ogra> (if you havent already)
[07:45] <Mez> mdz: they're proving elusive - but I'll keep trying
[07:50] <Mez> mdz: it's because of the HAL stuff in oary being different than in Breezy - Riddell had to write a patch for HAL to work in KDE with breezy; with the patch it wont work in hoary, without it, it wont work in breezy
[07:51] <Mez> I'm just emailing you logs
[07:51] <drac> Ubuntu users with ATi cards seem to get restricted-modules-$(uname -r) installed by default and fglrx kernel module (version 8.8.25) from that package gets automatically loaded. This a) Causes troubles for people trying to install new drivers. b) Taints kernel by default, thus making it impossible to write any bugreports of kernel. Is this going to be fixed in Breezy ?
[07:51] <Amaranth> You're not supposed to file bug reports upstream. :P
[07:51] <drac> Or is it intended to be this way?
[07:51] <Treenaks> drac: "new drivers" should only be used from packages
[07:51] <Treenaks> drac: and you can file the bugs in ubuntu just fine
[07:52] <Amaranth> Aye, it's a ease-of-use thing.
[07:52] <mdz> Mez: sounds like it could be addressed with an autoconf test
[07:52] <mdz> drac: the module is installed by default, but should not be loaded by default
[07:53] <jasoncohen> drac, most users don't need a newer version of the driver- so it's easier if the kernel module is pre-installed
[07:53] <mdz> it isn't on my ATI-based systems
[07:53] <Mez> mdz: well I've emailed you the logs, and I've CC'd Riddell
[07:53] <jasoncohen> it's only loaded if you use driver fglrx in xorg.conf
[07:53] <jasoncohen> the default is ati
[07:53] <drac> mdz, jasoncohen: So I should file bugreport about.. it getting automatically loaded?
[07:53] <jasoncohen> drac, well, what driver are you using in xorg.conf?
[07:53] <drac> jasoncohen: radeon
[07:54] <jasoncohen> then- yes, it shouldn't be loaded
[07:54] <jasoncohen> lsmod | grep fglrx shows it loaded?
[07:54] <Mez> mdz: know when the backports buildds are going to be fixed: cause its still trying to build seahorse and firefox (after about a week)
[07:54] <drac> yes
[07:54] <mdz> drac: check /etc/default/hotplug (IGNORE_PCI_CLASS_DISPLAY) and /etc/modules first
[07:56] <mdz> Mez: what led you to the conclusion that the buildds are at fault?
[07:57] <mdz> Mez: hmm, gcc-4.0.gcc-opt.  I see
[07:57] <mdz> Mez: this looks to me like simply a bug in the firefox package
[07:57] <mdz> this has nothing to do with the buildds
[07:59] <marcin> jbailey: ping
[08:00] <jbailey> marcin: pong
[08:01] <marcin> jbailey: hi
[08:01] <marcin> jbailey: so, what about this CalendarSynchronization goal?
[08:01] <carstenh> jbailey: changing out configuration-files using scripts is allowed, at least when they are not markes as conffiles, right?
[08:01] <carstenh> s/out/our/
[08:05] <jbailey> marcin: You're right that I got confused between the caldav stuff and the ical publishing for evolution and that it's not done upstream yet.
[08:07] <siretart> jbailey: both? or just one of them?
[08:07] <bddebian> Hello sabdfl
[08:07] <siretart> hi mark!
[08:07] <highvoltage> hi sabdfl
[08:07] <sabdfl> hey guys
[08:07] <jbailey> carstenh: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ap-pkg-conffiles.html only mentions the maintainer scripts, but I'm more worried about dpkg asking whether or not the defatuls should be okay, and having someone suddenly make their system unusable.
[08:08] <jbailey> siretart: I don't think caldav is really on evolution's radar yet, even.
[08:09] <mjg59> jbailey: Hi
[08:09] <jbailey> siretart: The spec we did at udu basically said "Better iCal is coming, caldav is the right thing and isn't anywhere near existing yet.  Let's try again after breezy releases"
[08:09] <siretart> :(
[08:09] <ogra> hey sabdfl 
[08:09] <whiprush> the status for caldav in their wiki is "Being worked on".
[08:09] <sabdfl> ogra!
[08:10] <whiprush> sabdfl!
[08:10] <jbailey> whiprush: I suspect it's on a branch then, I don't see a mention of it in the changelog.
[08:10] <siretart> jbailey: so the only possibilty for syncronizing calendars in evolution is using the exchange plugin with a groupware like opengroupware, did I get that right?
[08:10] <whiprush> jbailey: yeah, definately post gnome 2.12
[08:10] <mjg59> siretart: Or multisync
[08:10] <ogra> sabdfl, i had several discussions with thesaltydog since some months... i thought i was clear when i told him we'd sync bum from debian...
[08:11] <siretart> mjg59: ah, right. thanks 
[08:11] <jbailey> siretart: Right, and a random reading of google hits seems to make it look like multisync does an adequate job at least.
[08:11] <carstenh> jbailey: as far as i understand it it would be ok if none of our configfiles is marked as conffile. i don't like them to be conffiles, but i'd like to hear pittis opinion about that too
[08:12] <ogra> sabdfl, it just hadnt happened yet because MOTU land is very busy merging and transitioning :) but we normally dont loose stuff from our lists :)
[08:12] <jbailey> carstenh: Cool.  Does this block you from continuing on other bits?
[08:12] <carstenh> jbailey: and not marking tham as such dpkg would not ask :)
[08:12] <carstenh> jbailey: i only need to know if it is allowed to go this way
[08:12] <Mez> mdz: what led me to believe it was that infinity said it had kept being given back to the buildd ...
[08:13] <bddebian> Bah, where's tseng when I need him? :-)
[08:13] <Mez> mdz: I sent elmo an email and asked him to kill firefox from the buildd... cause it was requested before the new FF release for hoary
[08:13] <mdz> Mez: a crucial step when diagnosing any build problem is to read the log of the build
[08:13] <Mez> mdz: I didnt see any log
[08:13] <mdz> you can't infer much from the status
[08:13] <mdz> Mez: where did you look?
[08:13] <Mez> I was just looking at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/hoary-backports.all.i386
[08:13] <mdz> it's been there since 26 July
[08:14] <carstenh> jbailey: and before i create a package it should be clear if it would be a conffile, since i have to support upgrades
[08:14] <Mez> I assumed as it was in the state "Building" there wouldnt be any log
[08:14] <mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/f/firefox/1.0.6-1ubuntu1~hoary1/
[08:15] <mdz> Mez: always look for a log; you can find them by browsing http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/
[08:15] <Mez> ah fair enough... I would have expected it to be set to "faileD" in the List though
[08:15] <Kamion> packages go back into Building when they're being rebuilt
[08:15] <Kamion> retried, rather
[08:15] <Kamion> if something is in Building that doesn't mean it wasn't tried before
[08:15] <Mez> but, firefox still needs to be killed
[08:15] <Amaranth> yeah, those silly things just keep trying
[08:16] <Mez> it doesnt need to be backported anymore
[08:16] <lamont__> Mez: Building rarely means currently-building.  Usually it means "failed"
[08:16] <Mez> lamont, fair enough- what about "Needs-Build"
[08:17] <lamont__> needs-build means that it will be tried (again?) soon.  It's also possible that it's already building, since the state files are synced over every 20 minutes or so
[08:17] <lamont__> after it finishes trying to build (state==Building), and fails, then (possibly with manual intervention), it moves into Needs-Build, Dep-Wait, Failed, or Uploaded.
[08:17] <Mez> lamont - 7 pacxkages have been Needs-Build for the past week or so in backports, and ff/seahorse have been building
[08:18] <lamont__> interesting
[08:18] <lamont__> looks, even
[08:18] <Mez> I assumed that because it was that state, it had been broken
[08:18] <marcin> jbailey: So, do you expect some work on ical implementation?
[08:18] <Mez> I did poke infinity :D
[08:18] <mdz> lamont__: wasn't someone in Debian working on a "how to interpret buildd results" document?
[08:18] <marcin> siretart: afaik multisync is corrently out of date and doesn't work with current evo release
[08:19] <Mez> mdz: so even though http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/hoary-backports.all.i386 has been like that for 6/7 days - it's how it's meant to be
[08:19] <lamont__> mdz: could be... I'll poke around
[08:19] <siretart> marcin: you mean in universe or doesn't even multisync upstream have a fixed version?
[08:19] <mdz> lamont__: I think maybe vorlon
[08:20] <lamont__> Mez: well, at 6-7 days, either all the buildd's are ignoring the packages... there are various reasons that could be...
[08:20] <lamont__> which is what I mean to determine
[08:20] <mdz> lamont__: yeah, it was vorlon
[08:20] <Mez> (hopefully)
[08:20] <mdz> but I think it may be stalled.  something like that would be very nice to have, though
[08:20] <lamont__> ah... unknown universe packages.
[08:21] <lamont__> elmo: hoary-backports has some unknown source that needs to be {un,mult}iverse
[08:21] <lamont__> Mez: those packages are staying in Needs-Build, but you should see build logs for them approx every 30 minutes...
[08:21] <lamont__> they'll be the spam that's in ~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
[08:22] <lamont__> unknown maps to 'main', and those packages aren't in main.  So the build fails because it can't find source for the package.  And then we retry it.
[08:22] <lamont__> actually, I think those are once every 8 hours
[08:22] <lamont__> not 30 minutes
[08:22] <lamont__> mdz: I'll poke vorlon
[08:23] <marcin> siretart: I know that in hoary multisync and evo from packages doesn't work together
[08:23] <marcin> siretart: but I also know that multisync package is with latest version available
[08:26] <lamont__> mdz: looks like maybe a bit of scope-mismatch with vorlon's doc.
[08:28] <mdz> maybe I misinterpreted his goal
[08:32] <mdke> elmo, has henrik spoken to you about pointing a domain at the docteam linode server?
[08:34] <tseng> bddebian: ?
[08:39] <bddebian> tseng: Never mind we got it thanks
[08:39] <tseng> bddebian: ok.
[09:08] <mjg59> Hmm. My X has stopped starting.
[09:09] <bddebian> stopped starting?  Heh
[09:20] <mjg59> Dantis: Please to be fixing libvgahw kthxbye?
[09:20] <mjg59> Argh.
[09:20] <mjg59> daniels: Please to be fixing libvgahw
[09:22] <mjg59> ogra: Ping?
[09:22] <ogra> mjg59, pong
[09:22] <highvoltage> ogra: syn
[09:22] <mjg59> ogra: Hi - I'm playing with gnome-power-manager
[09:22] <ogra> mjg59, cvs version ?
[09:22] <mjg59> ogra: Breezy version
[09:22] <ogra> mjg59, drop that
[09:23] <mjg59> ogra: Ok. Have you got packages anywhere?
[09:23] <ogra> mjg59, i'll package the cvs version as soon as the new dbus from daniels is there
[09:23] <mjg59> ogra: Ok
[09:23] <ogra> there changed a lot between the current packages and cvs
[09:23] <mjg59> ogra: Main thing was that it, uh, doesn't actually seem to do anything when you ask it to suspend
[09:23] <mjg59> Is that fixed? :)
[09:23] <ogra> mjg59, yep
[09:24] <ogra> lol, sure
[09:24] <mjg59> I think the UI needs some work, too
[09:25] <ogra> mjg59, hughsie is quite often around here now... i think we can address all our concerns directly to get it fixed upstream ;)
[09:25] <mjg59> Other than that, it seems promising
[09:26] <ogra> the ui already got some work... bt i havent seen it yet ... without dbusits pretty useless... it uses the new functionallity in dbus extensively
[09:26] <mjg59> Ok
[09:27] <mjg59> ogra: Best thing to do for us is to have it configured to call gdm-signal
[09:28] <ogra> in the scripts/gconf settings ?
[09:28] <mjg59> Yup
[09:31] <jasoncohen> pitti, why does http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/unfixed.html show CVE's for php4 that are security issues in mozilla/firefox- not php4? 
[09:34] <pitti> jasoncohen: as I already said, that was a changelog typo
[09:34] <pitti> jasoncohen: currently a php upgrade is in progress, we'll fix the changelogs with it
[09:34] <jasoncohen> pitti, sorry, my mistake
[09:35] <pitti> jasoncohen: no worries :)
[09:35] <pitti> jasoncohen: I cleaned up the lists a bit today and did some small updates
[09:35] <pitti> jbailey, carstenh: I'm back
[09:35] <carstenh> wb pitti :)
[09:36] <jasoncohen> pitti, did you do the gzip, unzip and mozilla-thunderbird updates all this weekend?
[09:36] <pitti> jasoncohen: I did the first two today, infinity did tbird
[09:36] <jasoncohen> ah
[09:36] <pitti> jasoncohen: I'm currently fighting with mozilla 1.7.11 again :-/
[09:36] <carstenh> pitti: did you read our discussion or should i summarize it?
[09:37] <pitti> carstenh: I didn't read scrollback yet, I just arrived
[09:37] <pitti> carstenh: are there any outstanding things?
[09:37] <jasoncohen> pitti, i thought 1.7.10 was the latest. the download on http://www.mozilla.org/products/mozilla1.x/ is 1.7.10
[09:38] <carstenh> pitti: you said in your mail that you'd like to see /etc/default/firewall as a conffile. do you have any reasons for that?
[09:38] <jasoncohen> pitti, is 1.7.11 in the works?
[09:38] <carstenh> pitti: we also think /etc/firewall/conf should -not- be a conffile
[09:38] <pitti> jasoncohen: no, it's released, it fixes two regressions in mailnews
[09:39] <pitti> jasoncohen: unfortunately they also ripped out a complete library, so it doesn't build ATM
[09:39] <jasoncohen> pitti, weird...mozilla hasn't updated their site yet to reflect the new release
[09:40] <pitti> carstenh: no, the initial profiles should be conffiles, /etc/default/ubuntu-firewall (!, not /e/d/firewall) can be a normal configuration file
[09:40] <pitti> jasoncohen: I saw the annoucement on full-disclosure or bugtraq
[09:41] <carstenh> pitti: what about /etc/firewall/conf?
[09:41] <pitti> carstenh: small files for enabling/disabling which are acually _supposed_ to be changed should be in /etc/default
[09:42] <pitti> carstenh: i. e. /etc/default/<packagename>
[09:42] <jasoncohen> found mention of 1.7.11 on mozillazine - http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=7019
[09:42] <carstenh> pitti: sure, but the assignment of profiles to interfaces is done in /etc/firewall/conf
[09:44] <pitti> carstenh: that sounds fine
[09:44] <carstenh> pitti: and if dpkg asks a user after ltsp has changed this file to add masquerading if the new config-file should be used he may render his system unusable or at least not work as he expect
[09:44] <pitti> carstenh: but the profiles itself are stored in a directory?
[09:44] <carstenh> pitti: sure
[09:45] <pitti> carstenh: please don't ever try to mangle any but the most trivial config files with maintainer scripts, that will break
[09:45] <pitti> carstenh: that's why I would rather see some conf.d/-style directories where packages can drop policies in
[09:45] <carstenh> pitti: and the profiles accept-installed and accept-all are not planned as files, this are internal profiles
[09:46] <pitti> carstenh: hm, why not make them explicit?
[09:46] <carstenh> pitti: good question :)
[09:46] <pitti> carstenh: hardcoding such things is neither elegant nor a good design
[09:46] <pitti> carstenh: so a good packaging would make it possible to only drop an additional conffile in a conf.d/ directory and change policy with that
[09:47] <carstenh> pitti: ok, then i will remove these internal profiles and move them to its directory :)
[09:47] <pitti> carstenh: as soon as you start to write wild constructs with grep and sed into your maintainer scripts, then there will always be one special case where it breaks
[09:48] <carstenh> pitti: /lastlog worried
[09:48] <jasoncohen> pitti, i see that the changelogs of firefox & thunderbird now include both the MFSA's and CVE's- very nice
[09:49] <carstenh> pitti: do you prefer making this case possible and therefor make postint easier?
[09:49] <pitti> carstenh: "this case" == ?
[09:50] <carstenh> pitti: see query :)
[09:50] <jasoncohen> pitti, any chance of seeing MFSA's and CVEs in the USNs?
[09:50] <carstenh> i.e. after ltsp has added masquerading
[09:51] <pitti> jasoncohen: well, having them in the changelogs is fine, but MFSAs are just a special case, so I wouldn't like to include them
[09:51] <pitti> jasoncohen: otherwise folks start to demand Redhat bug numbers and bugtraq ID, too
[09:51] <pitti> jasoncohen: why do you think they would be important?
[09:52] <pkern> CVEs should be enough.
[09:52] <jasoncohen> i guess now it's kind of trivial. I thought it was important before because when i would check the USNs against the MFSA's on mozilla's site it was difficult to know what was patched and what wasn't
[09:53] <jasoncohen> now that you're using the new upstream release, i guess it's irrelevant
[09:55] <jasoncohen> pitti, why is it ok to include it in the changelog but not the USNs?
[09:55] <pitti> jasoncohen: I think the USNs should have a very standardized format
[09:56] <pitti> jasoncohen: OTOH, linking to more references like upstream patches or numbers is fine for a changelog, which is more developer oriented and package specific
[09:56] <jasoncohen> ah, i see
[09:56] <jasoncohen> i didn't realize that
[09:57] <pitti> well, there is certainly no sharp boundary
[09:57] <pitti> it just became common practice of me
[09:58] <jasoncohen> pitti, ...also, why do some packages receive updates in hoary-security that say "increment version number for hoary-security" if the version was already upped for the security update?
[09:59] <jasoncohen> like gzip went from 1.3.5-9ubuntu3.2 to 1.3.5-9ubuntu3.3 and it was upped once again to 3.4 for no apparent reason
[10:00] <pitti> jasoncohen: that's a rather bad workaround for having exactly the same version in two releases
[10:00] <pitti> jasoncohen: I was told to not upload the same version into multiple releaes
[10:00] <pitti> jasoncohen: so I uplooaded 3.3 into warty-security and 3.4 into hoary-security
[10:00] <jasoncohen> ah, got it
[10:01] <pitti> jasoncohen: I think the solution we found for mozilla (0ubuntu04.10 and 05.04) is slightly better, although the numbers look worse
[10:01] <jasoncohen> why does it matter if the version is the same in two releases? 
[10:01] <jasoncohen> oh, because everything is in the same pool directory- so you want to keep them independent?
[10:02] <jasoncohen> pitti, yeah- i was wondering about the 4.10 and 5.04 numbering scheme but it seems to make more sense
[10:04] <pitti> jasoncohen: compared to naming it 0warty1 and 0hoary1 it always has the correct order, whereas 0warty1 is newer than 0hoary1
[10:05] <jasoncohen> yeah, makes sense
[10:06] <jasoncohen> why can't you skip versions - say form 1.35-9ubuntu3.2 to 1.35-9ubuntu3.4 so you wouldn't need a changelog entry just for incrementing
[10:07] <mdz> pitti: are we affected by 	CAN-2005-1268 or CAN-2005-2088?
[10:07] <jasoncohen> pitti, sorry for asking all these questions. i'm just wondering how it works
[10:08] <pitti> mdz: I didn't check the apache thing (2088) yet, still busy with other security updates
[10:08] <pitti> mdz: what is 2088?
[10:09] <pitti> erm, what is 1268?
[10:09] <mdz> pitti: 1268 off-by-one overflow in apache2
[10:11] <trygvebw> hoho
[10:11] <trygvebw> what is the meaning of "x is a lot less broken"? does it work, or is it near working?
[10:13] <jasoncohen> pitti, http://www.xatrix.org/advisory.php?s=6654
[10:14] <pitti> jasoncohen: thanks
[10:14] <jasoncohen> np
[10:14] <pitti> ok, good night guys
[10:15] <jasoncohen> goodnight
[10:27] <dholbach> infinity, elmo: could somebody of you sync baobab from unstable?
[10:33] <ogra> mdz, ping, if you have a second, /join #edubuntu
[10:40] <dholbach> i'm off again... see you soon
[10:42] <jp> bye!
[10:54] <Keybuk> meh @ nautilus
[10:54] <Keybuk> it's putting folders on my desktop in the top-left, not where I drop them/click the menu to make them
[10:59] <jasoncohen> i have a question about the hoary release notes. It says that in order to upgrade from warty to hoary using apt you should change "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ warty main restricted" to "deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hoary main restricted" in /etc/apt/sources.list. Won't this however leave the user with warty-updates and warty-security? Even worse, if the user enabled universe and multiverse from warty, h
[10:59] <jasoncohen> e now has a half warty & half hoar system. 
[11:00] <dholbach> jasoncohen: it's the usual setup a user has, but you're right, it should be more explicit
[11:01] <jasoncohen> dholbach, warty-security and warty-updates weren't enabled by default?
[11:01] <dholbach> erm, well they should
[11:01] <jasoncohen> hmm...
[11:02] <doko> mdz, Kamion, elmo: please promote libsigc++-1.2-5c2 to main (replacing libsigc++-1.2-5), synced from Debian
[11:03] <Amaranth> warty-updates didn't exist
[11:04] <mdz> Amaranth: eh?
[11:04] <jasoncohen> Amaranth, was warty-security enabled? i can't seem to find an original warty sources.list
[11:04] <jasoncohen> gods...ubuntuguide or warty recommended using marillat. what crap
[11:05] <Amaranth> ubuntuguide, yeah
[11:05] <jasoncohen> 95% of the time a user can't install some software i find it's because they have a marillat source
[11:06] <Amaranth> yep
[11:08] <jasoncohen> found an original sources.list - http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-3916.html
[11:08] <jasoncohen> i still don't understand why the release notes wouldn't ask the user to change warty-security to hoary-security. 
[11:12] <mdke> jasoncohen, perhaps the release notes have a bug
[11:12] <mdke> nobody is perfect
[11:14] <jasoncohen> mdke, who would i contact about changing it? it's pretty important that users get security updates
[11:14] <mdke> jasoncohen, file a bug
[11:25] <dholbach> good night
[11:40] <azeem> was gnat-4.0 (libgnat-4.0.so, specifically) broken in hoary?
[11:41] <azeem> it's a broken symlink here
[11:43] <Mez> mdz: ping
[11:45] <mdz> doko: you mean 'accept from new', rather than 'promote to main', right?
[11:45] <mdz> Mez: yes?
[11:46] <Mez> mdz: Riddell's here now, you can talk to both of us regarding backporting KDE
[11:46] <Mez>  :d
[11:46] <ajmitch> morning
[11:46] <mdz> Mez: I already followed up via email
[11:46] <Mez> oh, did you?
[11:46] <mdz> is there something new to discuss?
[11:46] <mdz> about 2 minutes after I received it
[11:47] <Mez> ah
[11:47] <ogra> doko, according to the recent map on www.redhat.com you and pitti still live in the gdr :) http://www.redhat.com/g/promos/second_intelvid_050726.png
[11:48] <Riddell> Mez, mdz: it should all be possible, just a case of fiddling with build-deps
[11:48] <Mez> Riddell, I dont mind that, as I just saidm ut is there any chance you can provide your source packages from your hoary build, or debdiffs from the both of them?
[11:49] <Riddell> Mez: they're all there
[11:49] <Mez> nvm, just saw your reply :d
[11:52] <doko> mdz: yes,  'accept from new', then it lands in universe, then promote it to main
[11:54] <doko> ogra: apparently the resolution is to low to show the cow barn, where you live ;-)
[11:55] <ogra> but someone should tell them that their marketing lives 16 years in the past ;)
[11:55] <Mez> lamont, did you uncover anything on the buildd's regarding backport
[11:56] <Amaranth> ogra: Someone pulled a bad stock image out, it happens.
[11:57] <ogra> Amaranth, yep.. 
[11:58] <Amaranth> anyone else having fonts go all funny in firefox?
[11:59] <Amaranth> like too small, then bold, then too large and bold
[11:59] <lamont__> Mez: yes... and I rambled on about it about 10 lines after I said I'd check.
[11:59] <Amaranth> hmm, maybe it's just slashdot
[11:59] <mxpxpod> Amaranth: my app fonts are messed up in firefox
[12:00] <lamont__> unknown/ packages in Lists/* are presumed to be in main.  if they're in any other component, they won't build until the archive is fixed.
[12:00] <lamont__> and that's an elmo thing
[12:00] <Mez> ah ...
[12:00] <Mez> so, is it all fixed?
[12:00] <mxpxpod> Amaranth: but we've already talked about that :)
[12:01] <elmo> lamont: no, it's not, unless you tell me about it
[12:01] <lamont__> I doubt it... unless someone has gotten an ack from elmo... See http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/hoary-backports.all.i386
[12:01] <Mez> elmo, I sent you an email about it ... :D and I think infinity did too 
[12:01] <lamont__> elmo: iz in scrollback a few hours back... I was mostly dumping it back on Mez.
[12:01] <lamont__> there are several unknown/ packages (whcih are really universe) in hoary-backports.
[12:02] <Mez> lamont - I got grabbed away from PC to job search
[12:02] <lamont__> for values of several in the vicinity of 6
[12:03] <lamont__> elmo: I should have emailed you, sorry