[08:28] <zed> hello :)
[08:28] <adomanski> hi
[08:29] <adomanski> Hi Sturmkind ;)
[08:29] <Sturmkind> hello adomanski ;-)
[08:29] <adomanski> hehe
[08:29] <Sturmkind> i think it's a english channel
[08:29] <adomanski> it is
[08:52] <Nafallo> mako: ping
[08:55] <Seveas> Nafallo, wait an hour :)
[08:56] <teolemon> what?
[08:56] <Sturmkind> *g*
[08:56] <adomanski> lol
[08:56] <teolemon> i thought that was Greenwich + ou - one
[08:57] <Nafallo> hmm, that was not the highlight I wanted ;-)
[09:01] <Yann2> teolemon > +2, we've summer hour
[09:01] <teolemon> okay
[09:01] <teolemon> so French time ?
[09:01] <teolemon> that would be ...
[09:01] <adomanski> 22
[09:01] <teolemon> gosh
[09:01] <Seveas> teolemon, sate --utc
[09:01] <Seveas> date --utc even
[09:02] <teolemon> going to read a bit to wait
[09:02] <teolemon> see ya
[09:04] <Yann2> teolemon > qd on est en heure d't on a utc+2, en heure d'hiver UTC+2
[09:05] <teolemon> et les anglais c'est pareil ?
[09:05] <teolemon> ou on est les seuls
[09:05] <Yann2> pareil :)
[09:08] <adomanski> http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?UTC/s/0/java
[09:08] <adomanski> lol
[09:11] <Yann2> erf
[09:32] <Sturmkind> hello daniel
[09:33] <dholbach> hello sascha
[09:33] <\sh> hey Sturmkind 
[09:33] <\sh> dholbach: what a pleasure to see u :)
[09:33] <Sturmkind> hello \sh
[09:33] <dholbach> hai \sh :)
[09:34] <Sturmkind> where the shark is?
[09:36] <\sh> in kerpen..next to michael schumacher ,-)
[09:37] <Sturmkind> lol @ \sh 
[09:41] <Sturmkind> \sh: i wish the shark near to the german po
[09:41] <Sturmkind> politicians
[09:41] <Sturmkind> :-)
[09:41] <\sh> hehe
[09:41] <\sh> ok..time to check the agenda ,)
[09:41] <Sturmkind> ok
[09:42] <\sh> who is jennylw? the standard girls name for someone not existent?
[09:43] <Sturmkind> lol
[09:45] <ubuntu_demon> hi
[09:47] <Seveas> 'navond Roald
[09:47] <ubuntu_demon> hi Seveas are you dutch ?
[09:48] <Seveas> ubuntu_demon, yup, je kent me zelfs ;)
[09:48] <ubuntu_demon> Seveas: dennis :)
[09:48] <Seveas> :D
[09:49] <ubuntu_demon> Seveas: did you see that I put my name on : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DutchTeamIdeas ? I would like to visit the next meeting
[09:49] <Seveas> ubuntu_demon, nice
[09:49] <Seveas> check out DutchTeamSpurt too
[09:49] <mako> Nafallo: hey
[09:49] <ubuntu_demon> Seveas: also if you need a moderator for http://www.ubuntu-linux.nl/forum/ I'm willing
[09:49] <Seveas> we're going to translate heaps of documentation in one weekend (5-6 nov)
[09:49] <Seveas> ubuntu_demon, ubuntu-linu.nl is a rogue site..
[09:49] <ubuntu_demon> Seveas: I didn't know
[09:50] <Seveas> I've been trying to establish cooperation but they don't want to cooperate...
[09:50] <\sh> hey mako...still in the netherlands?
[09:50] <ogra> \sh, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JennyL%c3%b6%c3%b6w
[09:50] <ubuntu_demon> Seveas: then we won't cooperate with them ;) .. also it's better to have all of the forums in 1 place
[09:50] <mdke> Seveas, a translation weekend is an awesome idea
[09:51] <Seveas> mdke, we think so too
[09:51] <Sturmkind> Seveas: the same problem we have in germany with ubuntu-forum.de :-(
[09:51] <Yann2> we're going to make a "forum day" too ;)
[09:51] <Nafallo> mako: hi! can I ask you to look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JennyLw? :-)
[09:52] <Seveas> Nafallo, that's an empty page
[09:52] <Sturmkind> ogra: nice gothic style ;-)
[09:52] <Nafallo> mako: I'm not sure what a contribution is for translating girlfriends
[09:52] <Nafallo> Seveas: hmm, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JennyL%c3%b6%c3%b6w
[09:52] <ogra> Sturmkind, meet gothcat :)
[09:52] <Yann2> who is Josh Kresh?
[09:52] <Yann2> Kress?
[09:52] <Seveas> ah, there's content now
[09:53] <ogra> Yann2, yep
[09:53] <Seveas> 5 minutes ago there wasnt :)
[09:53] <Nafallo> Seveas: :-)
[09:53] <Sturmkind> ah thank you ogra 
[09:53] <kinjoo> Josh Kress, that's me
[09:53] <ubuntu_demon> this is me : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RoaldHopman
[09:53] <kinjoo> Who' asking?
[09:53] <Nafallo> would that satisfy for a membership or what is missing? :-)
[09:53] <ogra> kinjoo, Yann2 was
[09:53] <Seveas> ubuntu_demon, wait your turn, the meeting didn't start yet :)
[09:54] <ubuntu_demon> Seveas: I know just wanted everyone to know who I am :-P
[09:54] <kinjoo> ogra: I see, but I wanted to know his/her real name ;-)
[09:54] <\sh> hmmm....
[09:54] <\sh> weired
[09:55] <\sh> ffox should translate the umlauts to http conform character replacements
[09:56] <\sh> Nafallo: your girlfriend? then u cheated ,-)
[09:56] <Nafallo> \sh: hehe, cheated? :-)
[09:57] <Sturmkind> hello littlepaul 
[09:57] <\sh> Nafallo: u put the content just now on it ,-)
[09:58] <Nafallo> \sh: she did actually :-)
[09:58] <Seveas> Yann2, btw: did you see my nice ubuntu-themed forum at ubuntulinux.nl/forum :)
[09:58] <Yann2> Seveas > :)
[09:59] <\sh> hmmm...i have to say: quattro formaggi pizza is nothing for me
[09:59] <\sh> it smells like stinky feet
[09:59] <Seveas> \sh, no cheese lover?
[09:59] <Mez> Tue Aug  2 19:59:41 UTC 2005
[09:59] <\sh> meeting
[09:59] <Seveas> <public service announcement>Hi everybody. The CC meeting will start soon. Everybody who wants to become a member: please prepare a 3 line description of your work for Ubuntu so far, what you want to do and your vision about Ubuntu. And to everybody: please stay on-topic; the CC meetings take long. Going into off-topic discussions makes them even longer. Let's not repeat the debacle we saw last meeting. </public service announcement>
[09:59] <Seveas> Now please everybosy state your name for the record
[10:00] <Kamion> mako,elmo: around?
[10:00] <elmo> Kamion: yah
[10:00] <Yann2> Yann Hamon, Ubuntu-fr locoteamleader.
[10:00] <gothcat> Jenny Lw
[10:00] <ogra> <-- still OliverGrawert
[10:01] <Mez> ogra: :O
[10:01] <kinjoo> Josh Kress
[10:01] <smurfix> I need to run away for 15min or so, sorry :-/
[10:01] <Yann2> (who's Josh Kress?)
[10:01] <Yann2> ahh ^^ 
[10:01] <Sturmkind> Sascha Morr
[10:01] <Sturmkind> hello smurfix
[10:02] <Yann2> who's leading the meeting? Seveas ?
[10:02] <Seveas> no, mako
[10:02] <ogra> Yann2, mako
[10:02] <\sh> Yann2: mako
[10:02] <\sh> ,-)
[10:02] <Yann2> k.
[10:04] <ju> Hi all
[10:04] <Mez> Kamion, do we have a sabdfl today?
[10:04] <ogra> Mez, doesnt look like
[10:04] <Kamion> Mez: no, he's too busy at the Brazil sprint apparently
[10:04] <Kamion> phone
[10:04] <Seveas> mako, is busy too it seems :)
[10:05] <Mez> elmo, looks like you're leading the meeting :P
[10:05] <\sh> actually..time to catch a beer
[10:05] <ogra> Seveas, s/busy/preparing/ ;)
[10:05] <elmo> hmm, where did mako go?  we kind of need him for quorum
[10:06] <elmo> ok, let's have a brief on-hold, while we a) wait for kamion to finish talking to mark, b) try and get mako
[10:06] <ogra> he was here 15min ago...
[10:06] <mdke> elmo, got 2 secs for a PM?
[10:06] <Seveas> Nafallo, sent mako of to gothcat's wikipage
[10:06] <Seveas> maybe he fainted :)
[10:06] <Nafallo> lol
[10:06] <mdke> <-- (MatthewEast)
[10:07] <dholbach> hey mdke :)
[10:07] <Kamion> Mark sends his apologies by phone, as I said too busy
[10:07] <gothcat> Seveas: Thanx *smiling*
[10:07] <dholbach> Kamion: tell him hi from us :)
[10:07] <mdke> hiya dholbach
[10:08] <Mez> \sh wha?
[10:08] <\sh> Mez: when I saw the first few lines of gothcats picture :)
[10:08] <smurfix> back
[10:08] <Seveas> wb
[10:08] <Seveas> the meeting dit not start yet
[10:08] <elmo> calling mako
[10:08] <Mez> \sh, you need a higher res
[10:08] <smurfix> Seveas: I notice ;-)
[10:09] <\sh> Mez: yes..:) 14" isn't good at all
[10:09] <\sh> cheers guys
[10:10] <\sh> and gals :)
[10:10] <Mez> \sh 14" = impressive
[10:10] <Sturmkind> \sh: hm i should have a look at gothcat's pictures ;-)
[10:10] <elmo> mako's just getting online
[10:10] <mako> ok
[10:10] <mako> that was easy
[10:10] <Kamion> guys, leching at prospective members is hereby off-topic
[10:10] <mako> i was *sure* it was in two hours
[10:10] <mako> i didn't have a chance to look at the agenda
[10:10] <elmo> yeah,  off-topic and unpleasant, please try and have a little respect
[10:10] <Kamion> (right)
[10:11] <gothcat> \sh: I'm actually a big KISS fan :) but I'm a goth so thats way I have so much makeup :D
[10:11] <Seveas> I meant no disrespect. If anybody thoght that, I hereby apologize.
[10:11] <\sh> gothcat: as I said..the picture wasn't there completly..I just saw the white colour :)
[10:11] <mako> alrigght everyone
[10:11] <\sh> second seveas
[10:12] <Sturmkind> gothcat: the goth makeup looks chute ;-)
[10:13] <mako> ok
[10:13] <gothcat> Sturmkind: thanx
[10:13] <mako> are people waiting for me to chair this again?
[10:13] <mdke> ;)
[10:13] <smurfix> mako: probably
[10:13] <mako> alright
[10:13] <kolcvk> :)
[10:13] <ogra> mako, who else should lead us :)
[10:13] <elmo> mako: if you don't mind
[10:14] <mako> lets get this party started
[10:14] <mako> i am Benjamin Mako Hill
[10:14] <mako> and i have just now looked at the agenda due to thinko :)
[10:14] <ogra> <-- OliverGrawert
[10:14] <Kamion> we've done the roll-call, let's move on
[10:14] <mako> alright
[10:15] <mako> so loco team leaders
[10:15] <ogra> Seveas ...
[10:15] <kolcvk> :)
[10:15] <mako> Seveas: you're up
[10:15] <mako> Seveas: what needs to change?
[10:15] <Seveas> ok then, I've taken over Treenaks' position as leader lately
[10:15] <mako> alright
[10:15] <mako> Treenaks: you around?
[10:16] <Seveas> unfortunately not
[10:16] <mako> Seveas: while we're on the topic, is it worth talking about the two dutch teams?
[10:16] <smurfix> Seveas: tell us a bit about sourself?
[10:16] <mako> and what is going to happen with it
[10:16] <Seveas> mako, not yet, there are still some struggles going on after initial success
[10:16] <Yann2> mako > Josh Kress and I agreed, Ubuntu marketing effort and Ubuntu europe topics should be merged
[10:16] <Seveas> basically the 'others' refuse to cooperate
[10:17] <mako> Seveas: yeah, why don't you talk Treenaks sounds good
[10:17] <Kamion> what's the reasoning there?
[10:17] <kinjoo> mako: approved, merge topics!
[10:17] <Seveas> Kamion, ubuntu-linux.nl is part of alleslinux.com and as such wants no cooperation with official teams
[10:17] <Seveas> but they do get on our nerves by not even linking to the official dutch dite
[10:17] <Seveas> site*
[10:18] <mdke> Seveas, do they even answer your mails now?
[10:18] <Yann2> CC agenda updated.
[10:18] <Seveas> mdke, yes, finally after 2 months 
[10:18] <mako> Seveas: well, as the team with official blessing.. you guys should play teh nice guy
[10:18] <mdke> progress :)
[10:18] <Seveas> mako, we do :)
[10:19] <mako> i hvae a dialog with the guy from the second team and can help to put pressure on either side if you want
[10:19] <Seveas> mako, let's take that out of the meeting, this would be off-topic for now...
[10:19] <mako> alright
[10:19] <mako> Seveas: anything else to report with the team?
[10:19] <Seveas> yeah
[10:19] <Seveas> we're goinf to have a weekend-long translation spurt to translate a lot of documentation
[10:20] <dholbach> cool :)
[10:20] <mdke> +++
[10:20] <mako> Seveas: awesome
[10:20] <Seveas> And the idea sounded so good to me that I want to spread it :)
[10:20] <mako> Seveas: you should write that up and send it sounder
[10:20] <Seveas> mako, will do once the plans are final
[10:20] <mako> try to use it as a model for the other teams
[10:20] <mako> cool!
[10:20] <mako> Seveas: anything else?
[10:20] <Seveas> not unless someone has questions
[10:21] <smurfix> Seveas: Cool. Please update the LoCoTeamsList ;-)
[10:21] <mako> cool
[10:21] <mako> Yann2: you're up\
[10:21] <Yann2> thx.
[10:21] <mako> Yann2: whats up with the french team?
[10:21] <Yann2> Well, the german teaam and french team had some hosting problem, a few while ago
[10:21] <Yann2> i told you about that.
[10:22] <Yann2> you told us to find some host ourselves, as the ubuntu foundation couldn't help
[10:22] <mdke> Yann2, we're on the team leader part of the agenda right now
[10:22] <Yann2> Oh.
[10:22] <Yann2> hm, . I'm already team leader... 
[10:23] <mdke> that's what I thought too...
[10:23] <mdke> ;)
[10:23] <ogra> Yann2, your ip indicates that youre in germany...
[10:23] <Yann2> i suppose i shouldn't have noted my name on the agenda, then :)
[10:23] <Yann2> ogra > i am ;)
[10:23] <Yann2> well, sorry, let's move on.
[10:23] <Virtuall> argh... but I probably should :(
[10:24] <Seveas> Virtuall, -> next time
[10:24] <mako> ok.. lets move on :)
[10:24] <ogra> does anyone els think its funny that the .it team has a british settled leader and the french one a german one ?
[10:24] <ogra> else even
[10:24] <Seveas> KyleBrooks
[10:24] <mako> Yann2: unless you had something you needed in front of the council
[10:24] <Virtuall> :)
[10:24] <Yann2> ogra > i'm french. Studiing in germany. Coming back to france in one month. We're off topic ;)
[10:24] <mdke> ogra, at least Yann2 is actually french ;)
[10:24] <Seveas> kbrooks apparently is not present
[10:24] <smurfix> mako: we do, but UbuntuEurope is further down on the agenda.
[10:24] <mdke> ogra, also, the -it team doesn't have a leader :D
[10:25] <Seveas> RoaldHopman -> ubuntu_demon you're up
[10:25] <mako> ok
[10:25] <ubuntu_demon> ok
[10:25] <ogra> mdke, :)
[10:25] <ubuntu_demon> I'm a moderator of ubuntuforums. (ubuntu_demon)
[10:25] <ubuntu_demon> I will continue helping people as a moderator for the foreseeable future. Also I've got some other thoughts/ideas.See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RoaldHopman for some of them. Maybe it would be nice to blog about some of them on Planet Ubuntu.
[10:25] <mako> wow, people already know the routine :)
[10:25] <mdke> oh wow you're THAT ubuntu_demon :)
[10:25] <ubuntu_demon> mdke: yeah I am :)
[10:25] <mdke> nice work
[10:25] <Seveas> mako, I gave the instructions prior to the meeting :)
[10:25] <Mez> +1 for Forums work
[10:26] <mako> since i'm not on the forums, are there are people here who can vouch for ubuntu_demon's forum work?
[10:26] <mdke> yeah
[10:26] <Seveas> ubuntu_demon, as forum helper, fif you join the NewUserNetwork?
[10:26] <mdke> he does good work
[10:26] <Seveas> did*
[10:26] <Kamion> (detail's good)
[10:26] <ubuntu_demon> mako: you can read everything about me on the forums and my wiki if you want :-P
[10:27] <Kamion> lots of posts, mind
[10:27] <gothcat> I have been translating in Rosetta so far and I will continue to do so. Yesterday I became an approver
[10:27] <Seveas> ubuntu_demon, that's not the point, we need people to vouch for you with details on why you should be a member
[10:27] <Mez> ubuntu_demon, has given lots and lots of support on the forums, and also does a great job of keeping them in order.
[10:27] <gothcat> oops
[10:27] <Kamion> ubuntu_demon: that takes a bit long for these meetings, summaries are our friends :)
[10:27] <Mez> gothcat: wait your turn
[10:27] <ubuntu_demon> Kamion: ok :)
[10:27] <siretart> hi folks!
[10:27] <Sturmkind> we was at ubuntu-fr and Yann2 ?
[10:27] <Nafallo> Mez: she didn't realize the enter key was that close ;-)
[10:28] <mdke> post count is a reasonable indication of ubuntu_demon's work
[10:28] <Mez> Nafallo, sorry :D automativ
[10:28] <mako> alright
[10:28] <Kamion> ubuntu_demon: what would you say the top couple of issues you regularly help people with are? (curious)
[10:28] <mako> i've seen ubuntu_demon around.. i'm happy apprroving him for membership based on forums contributions
[10:29] <mako> but would still like to hear the answer to Kamion
[10:29] <ubuntu_demon> Kamion: that really depends :)
[10:29] <ubuntu_demon> Kamion: often I just have to tell people to take a look at the ubuntuguide first
[10:29] <mdke> Seveas, +
[10:30] <ubuntu_demon> Seveas: Do you want me to ask other moderators and such to become Ubuntu member ?
[10:30] <mako> ubuntu_demon: yes.. i think people that put in significant time in leadership roles in the forums should be
[10:31] <ubuntu_demon> mako: Okay I will
[10:31] <mako> Kamion, elmo: any feelings?
[10:31] <\sh> is there any possibility to feed the forum boards to nntp? 
[10:31] <mako> \sh: lets talk about this after the meeting
[10:31] <Seveas> fwiw, /me knows ubuntu_demon IRL and he's not a bad guy out there too
[10:31] <\sh> mako: sure..
[10:32] <ubuntu_demon> any questions to me ?
[10:32] <Mez> mako: ubuntu-geek is on his way to vouch for ubuntu_demon 
[10:32] <elmo> sorry, I'm just trying to catch up on the forums quickly
[10:32] <Kamion> likewise
[10:32] <Seveas> oh, and why is it that some parts on the forum are only visible when logged in?
[10:33] <Seveas> that is crap imao...
[10:33] <ubuntu_demon> Seveas: I didn't know since I am always logged in .. which parts  do you mean ?
[10:33] <Mez> Seveas, thats something to addresa fter the meeting ;)(
[10:33] <Seveas> Mez, sure, if you know why please tell me later
[10:33] <elmo> I think I'm happy to ack based on the recommendation of mako and the forum folks
[10:34] <Kamion> yeah, likewise I think
[10:34] <Mez> evening mdz :P
[10:34] <mdz> Mez: yes?
[10:34] <ubuntu_demon> mdz = ubuntu_geek ?I will continue helping people as a moderator for the foreseeable future. Also I've got some other thoughts/ideas.See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RoaldHopman for some of them. Maybe it would be nice to blog about some of them on Planet Ubuntu.
[10:34] <ubuntu_demon> sorry
[10:34] <Mez> mdz, I was just greeting you
[10:34] <Kamion> it's hard for somebody who doesn't follow the fora full-time to have a feel for what somebody does
[10:35] <Seveas> Kamion, that's why I suggested more forum-people-presence at CC meetings
[10:35] <ubuntu_demon> I accidentally pasted again :-P
[10:35] <mdz> Mez: ":P"?
[10:35] <Seveas> it will be a nice task for member(-to-be) ubuntu_demon to arranhe that
[10:35] <Mez> mdz it was just a smiley, I use them all the time :P
[10:35] <mdz> ubuntu_demon: no, I am not ubuntu_geek
[10:35] <ubuntugeek> hello :)
[10:35] <Mez> ubuntugeek, = ubuntu-geek
[10:35] <ubuntu_demon> hi ubuntugeek :)
[10:36] <dholbach> where are we now?
[10:36] <ubuntugeek> hey guys :)
[10:36] <ubuntugeek> not sure if i am too late but ubuntu_demon has done tons for the forums so he gets my vote..
[10:36] <elmo> ok, so that's three acks, shall we move on?
[10:36] <mako> yes
[10:36] <Seveas> yes please :) 
[10:36] <ubuntu_demon> thnx guys :)
[10:36] <mako> #
[10:36] <mako> AlexanderDomanski
[10:36] <Seveas> ubuntu_demon, welcom aboard the Ubuntu ship
[10:37] <Seveas> send a signed CoC to mako
[10:37] <adomanski> Thank You Mako
[10:37] <ubuntu_demon> Seveas: explain about that CoC in private
[10:37] <adomanski> At the moment I am working as a news poster and wiki administrator at ubuntu-de.org. Till now I have been writing lots of german documentation and have been writing in the german forum. I am also working on an better rescue mode for Ubuntu, the new idea pool (topic today) a small usability study for the upcoming breezy release, some small tools to improve Breezy (nothing official yet), testing Breezy and thinking about usabilit
[10:37] <adomanski> y in general. My goals for Ubuntu would be to make it even easier and to be encouraged enough to go other ways.
[10:37] <ogra> adomanski, you do ltsp stuff ?
[10:38] <adomanski> yes ogra 
[10:38] <Seveas> adomanski, sounds good. Any ubuntu-de guys around to vouch for you?
[10:38] <dholbach> adomanski: what do you mean by "be encouraged enough to go other ways"? "other ways" like in derivatives?
[10:38] <ogra> adomanski, we should talk in #edubuntu after the meeting ;)
[10:38] <mako> littlepaul: votes in what way? :)
[10:38] <adomanski> dholbach: go go other ways than other distribution
[10:38] <adomanski> ogra: ok
[10:38] <ogra> :)
[10:39] <smurfix> +1 for adomanski
[10:39] <Sturmkind> +1 for adomanski 
[10:39] <kinjoo> +1 for adomanski
[10:39] <Kamion> adomanski: I haven't heard about the rescue mode improvements; feel free to get in touch with me offline about that, since I'm the main rescue mode author
[10:39] <\sh> ogra: he is a good candidate for motu ;)
[10:40] <mdke> Mez, what from?
[10:40] <ogra> +1 for adomanski if he does mdz the favor of a ltsp test install ;)
[10:40] <adomanski> Kamion: ok. send me an irc memo. documentation is atm only in german
[10:40] <littlepaul> mako, i support and agree to adomanski description
[10:40] <Kamion> adomanski: the link on your wiki page is dead
[10:40] <Mez> mdke - a + or a -
[10:40] <adomanski> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlexanderDomanski should work
[10:40] <mako> adomanski: i woudl sugggest that your wiki page be a bit more developed
[10:40] <\sh> adomanski: u should join motu..with your skills...
[10:41] <Kamion> adomanski: no, the IsolatedRescueEnvironment one
[10:41] <adomanski> \sh: i can't do packaging
[10:41] <adomanski> Kamion: seems to be deleted
[10:41] <ogra> adomanski, asy to learn ;)
[10:41] <\sh> adomanski: ???  DPKG packaging
[10:41] <Kamion> as is BreezyUsabilityStudy
[10:41] <\sh> it's written on your page
[10:41] <ogra> s/asy/easy
[10:41] <adomanski> \sh: not THAT good
[10:41] <Kamion> not good enough for MOTU?
[10:41] <ogra> adomanski, doesnt matter.... its a matter of training :)
[10:42] <adomanski> Kamion: no. I would not like to see my packages in universe ;=
[10:42] <adomanski> ogra: sure
[10:42] <mdke> the page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlexanderDomanski
[10:42] <\sh> adomanski: well...motu is a way to improve 
[10:42] <Seveas> adomanski, why don't you want that?
[10:42] <ogra> adomanski, we can teach you everything you need... the only thing you have to do is getting practice yourself :)
[10:43] <adomanski> \sh: i guess it is. but i am not., well ready for it. you see?
[10:43] <\sh> and we need some python guys
[10:43] <adomanski> \sh: give me some time.
[10:43] <\sh> adomanski: I wasn't ready at all ... anyways...
[10:43] <ogra> adomanski, just try it... if you cant make it you can still step back ...
[10:43] <adomanski> no really. being an ubuntu member is just enough for me atm
[10:44] <dholbach> adomanski: don't worry, we won't make you sign a contract now :-)
[10:44] <adomanski> dholbach: rofl
[10:44] <\sh> dholbach: well...motu is a contract with the devil^h^h^h^h^hogra,-)
[10:44] <adomanski> ;D
[10:44] <Nafallo> haha
[10:44] <Seveas> we're dwelling off-topic a bit
[10:44] <Kamion> I tend to agree that the wiki page needs to be fleshed out; it's hard for me to see what you've done as opposed to what you're interested in doing, if you see what I mean
[10:45] <elmo> yeah
[10:45] <Seveas> anybody want to vouch for/vote against adomanski ?
[10:45] <mako> adomanski: want to work on documenting and linking the things you've worked on and then come back to the next meeting?
[10:45] <mako> adomanski: i'm happy to work with you in the next two weeks to do this
[10:45] <mako> adomanski: it's not a comment on the work you've done just.. just how visible it is the council
[10:45] <ogra> MOTU would be too :)
[10:45] <adomanski> mako: im on holidays then
[10:46] <Seveas> adomanski, then try two weeks later :)
[10:46] <mako> adomanski: well.. if you work on the page and talk about it first.. we won't require you to show up again
[10:46] <adomanski> mako: what do you mean?
[10:47] <mako> adomanski: well.. work on the page before hand, run it by me.. and then you don't need to actually who up at the meeting
[10:47] <mako> adomanski: so being on holiday shouldn't be an issue
[10:47] <mako> adomanski: is that alright?
[10:47] <adomanski> mako: ok. I will do that.
[10:47] <Kamion> thanks dude
[10:47] <mako> JonathanJesse
[10:47] <mako> you're up
[10:47] <mdke> he is not here right now
[10:47] <mako> alright next
[10:47] <Seveas> gothcat
[10:48] <gothcat> I have been translating in Rosetta so far and I will continue to do so. Yesterday I became an approved member of Ubuntu Swedish Translators. I will continue translating and maybe join the artwork team.
[10:48] <mako> JennyLw
[10:48] <gothcat> hi 
[10:48] <ogra> mako, gothcat
[10:48] <Nafallo> I can vouch for her and tell you that she is nervous :-)
[10:48] <Kamion> have you been lurking on the art team to date? I haven't heard much from it (no reflection on them, I just haven't been paying attention)
[10:48] <Kamion> so curious
[10:49] <mako> is there a way we can get rosetta stats?
[10:49] <adomanski> users page
[10:49] <Nafallo> mako: there is a link on her wiki :-)
[10:49] <mdke> https://launchpad.net/people/gothcat/+translations
[10:50] <mako> i see that
[10:50] <mako> ....now
[10:50] <mdke> nice work :D
[10:50] <gothcat> Kamion: right now its much about icons..
[10:50] <ogra> Kamion, i'm there all the time... still sorting themselves out
[10:51] <elmo> thos translation stats are kind of lame
[10:51] <elmo> err, not gothcats
[10:51] <mdke> elmo, yeah that is a real new feature
[10:52] <elmo> I mean the page in general.  the LP team needs some stats pr0n investment
[10:52] <Nafallo> elmo: agreed
[10:52] <mako> gothcat: how long have you been doing translations?? how many messages (order of magnitude) have you do so far?
[10:53] <mako> elmo: dude, be careful making ridiculous suggestion for lp
[10:53] <gothcat> sice rosetta was launched
[10:53] <mako> elmo: thhey will be accepted
[10:53] <ogra> lol
[10:53] <Nafallo> I've watched her made a lot, also filled a bug about them not being seen :-P
[10:54] <gothcat> I dont know how many I dont count them
[10:54] <Nafallo> mako: she's been using evenings for it atleast :-)
[10:54] <\sh> Nafallo: jealous? ;)
[10:55] <Nafallo> and sometimes nights
[10:55] <Nafallo> \sh: you got me ;-)
[10:55] <mako> is there anyone else here who can vouch for gothcat and her contributions
[10:55] <mako> ?
[10:55] <mako> i am no thrilled with the reporting funcionality of lp but am not going to hold that against gothcat :)
[10:55] <Kamion> I'm generally OK with acking people based on translation work, obviously
[10:56] <Kamion> so fine with me, despite lp's dodgy stats :)
[10:56] <elmo> yeah, ack
[10:56] <mako> el	?
[10:56] <Nafallo> I can put my eyes as translation status report tools or something :-)
[10:56] <mdke> ouch
[10:56] <gothcat> thanks guys :D
[10:56] <mdke> welcome gothcat, nice work
[10:57] <Kamion> somebody please raise stats issues as a Rosetta bug, if it's not there already
[10:57] <Mez> gothcat, signed CoC, on mako's desk :P
[10:57] <ogra> welcome gothcat :)
[10:57] <mdke> Kamion, i'm sure they are working on it, because that feature has only just been implemented afaik
[10:57] <Nafallo> yay! :-)
[10:57] <gothcat> Mez: okey
[10:57] <Kamion> mdke: fair enough
[10:57] <\sh> gothcat: Nafallo will show u how to do this...and welcome :)
[10:57] <gothcat> Thanx
[10:57] <mako> alright
[10:57] <Seveas> welcome gothcat 
[10:58] <mako> is there anyone else at teh end of the list who is her enow?
[10:58] <mako> people that didn't show before but are here now?
[10:58] <mako> going once..
[10:58] <mako> going twice..
[10:58] <Virtuall> well... i was discussed before (DankoAlexeyev)
[10:59] <Mez> mako, can you read my /msg please ?
[10:59] <Virtuall> and i was there :)
[10:59] <mako> alright
[10:59] <Virtuall> but i had nothing to show so ... :)
[10:59] <mako> Virtuall: ok.. work with me in the next two weeks
[10:59] <mako> alright then
[10:59] <mako> lets move on
[10:59] <mako> Mez wants to move backports stuff up to here
[10:59] <Virtuall> currently not much more to show either. ok.
[10:59] <mako> and i'm ok with that
[10:59] <Seveas> Virtuall, look at the top of the needs-to-show-up list....
[10:59] <mako> Virtuall: alright.. then we'll work on it
[11:00] <mako> backports team
[11:00] <mako> last time we decided that we didn't need to vote at the time for the team
[11:00] <mdke> what's the issue?
[11:00] <mako> because we'd already agreed that we wanted to create it but wanted them to lead with work
[11:00] <mako> it sounds like that has happened.. the list was created, etc
[11:01] <Kamion> isn't backports team just agenda cruft? it's been there three meetings running now, I think
[11:01] <Mez> 2
[11:01] <mdke> lol
[11:01] <mako> Kamion: it was removed and readded
[11:01] <Mez> this time mako told me to put it in:p
[11:01] <ogra> yep,they are wildly spamming the buillogs with ~hoary versions :)
[11:01] <mdke> awww how come a separate mailing list rather than ubuntu-devel?
[11:01] <mako> Mez: you guys have a team now
[11:01] <Mez> yes, we do
[11:01] <mako> Mez: what were you asking for this time?
[11:01] <mako> recognition of you at the contact?
[11:02] <mako> i can't remember what was at issue this time
[11:02] <Mez> mako: you told me to come here :
[11:02] <Mez> to "rubber stamp" the whole thing
[11:02] <mdz> mako: if the team is official now, it should be added to the Teams page
[11:02] <Seveas> so apparently the team has no official status yet
[11:02] <Mez> there - mdz will explain
[11:02] <mako> well, since i thought we agreed to this before, i'm ahppy to agree to it now
[11:02] <Kamion> this is getting rather ridiculous, we've approved it twice now
[11:03] <mdz> that's all I've got; I wasn't present for the previous discussion
[11:03] <mako> mdz: alright.. let's add it to that page
[11:03] <mako> Mez: you have what you want as far as i can tell
[11:03] <mdz> mako: meaning "I will add it to that page" or "would you please add it to that page"?
[11:03] <Mez> mako: I emailed you and asked whether there was anything left to do, you said yes and said it just needed rubber stamping to make it "official"
[11:03] <mako> there are some communication issues here in regards to this team and its status :)
[11:03] <mako> mdz: meaning, "i will add it to that page"
[11:04] <mdz> mako: we should announce the creation of new teams somewhere
[11:04] <mako> mdz: yes, we should
[11:04] <Seveas> mdz, announce@lists
[11:04] <mdz> not ubuntu-announce, but perhaps ubuntu-devel
[11:04] <\sh> ubuntu-announce ML?
[11:04] <ogra> mdz, backports was widely announced
[11:04] <mako> Mez: that might have been some time ago.. or i was confused at the time.. in any situation, it should be fine
[11:04] <mdz> ogra: oh?
[11:04] <mako> or ubuntu-news
[11:04] <mdz> ogra: neither I nor the backports team lead heard the announcement
[11:04] <ogra> mdz,  on all mailing lists and i think Mez put it in any channel topic
[11:04] <\sh> ogra: it wasn't the official backports were a "secret"
[11:04] <mako> Mez: remind me about the announcement tomorrow and we'll send it out
[11:04] <Mez> mako: it was 4 days ago
[11:05] <\sh> ogra: since 4 days or 5
[11:05] <mako> ok.. maybe this is my fault
[11:05] <ogra> \sh, yep
[11:05] <Mez> on -devel and -users
[11:05] <mako> Mez: we can send it to -news
[11:05] <Mez> and put in topic
[11:05] <Mez> :D
[11:05] <Mez> anyways
[11:05] <mako> alright
[11:05] <mako> lets move on
[11:05] <mdz> it is not necessary to put it in the topic
[11:05] <\sh> and that backports are official now, is not widely spread 
[11:05] <Seveas> kinjoo / Yann2 
[11:05] <mako> ubuntu-europe
[11:05] <Yann2> :)
[11:05] <mako> whats up?
[11:05] <ogra> \sh, its on ubuntu-users....
[11:05] <Yann2> hope this won't be _too_ long.
[11:06] <kinjoo> Yann2 go ahead
[11:06] <mako> Yann2: yeah, lets hope :)
[11:06] <Yann2> so some paste..
[11:06] <Yann2> The french team got some hosting problem a few weeks ago.
[11:06] <Yann2> We asked mako for help... we were told we would have to find some hosting ourselves, as the linode proposal was not enough for our website.
[11:06] <mdz> Mez: there should be an announcement on the backports.ubuntuforums.org page pointing to the new page as well
[11:06] <ubuntu_demon> IMO it should wide spread that backports is official. This is really important for users I think
[11:06] <mdz> Mez: are you able to make changes there?
[11:06] <Yann2> We figured out on #ubuntu-locoteams that the German team had some problems too, so we decided to initiate a common fundraising program for both teams.
[11:06] <Yann2> It worked well, we got plenty of donations, and lots of companies got in touch with us proposing some help, in many domains.
[11:06] <Yann2> We need an official status for that. We were thinking of creating an Ubuntu Europe foundation, to promote Ubuntu in Europe, and to share amongst european teams what we might be able to get for free/buy.
[11:06] <\sh> ogra: should be on planet...
[11:06] <Yann2> We think sharing the costs for stuff(flyers, tee shirts, hosting...) would be cheaper if they're shared. And btw the others teams could benefit of the propositions that have been made to Ubuntu-fr.
[11:06] <ogra> mdz, its also on the forums
[11:06] <Yann2> It'd be an Not-for-profit organisation in France, just like the Mozilla Fundation; smurfix and I already propose ourselves as founders.
[11:06] <Yann2> We're not asking Canonical or Ubuntu for money (well we won't refuse any donation, though :) ). We just want Ubuntu Foundation to recognize the Ubuntu Europe Foundation (or whatever it'll be called) as one of it's affiliates.
[11:06] <Yann2> It won't replace any of the local Community Teams. In fact I hope it'll provide communication between them.
[11:06] <Yann2> [that's it, sorry for flooding :/] 
[11:07] <mdz> Mez: backports.ubuntuforums.org doesn't even mention the new repository
[11:07] <Kamion> the Ubuntu Foundation is not really a properly active organisation yet; we have not yet had a board meeting as distinct from Ubuntu Community Council meetings, for example
[11:07] <mako> JanC: 
[11:07] <mdz> Kamion: the foundation already has a wikipedia entry though ;-)
[11:08] <mako> mdz: really, i should to read it
[11:08] <mako> i know very little about it :)
[11:08] <\sh> wow
[11:08] <Kamion> Ubuntu Europe also seems like a slightly strange name given that the Ubuntu Foundation is, if based anywhere, based in Europe :-)
[11:08] <Yann2> btw,  just like the Mozilla Fundation; ->  just like the Mozilla Europe Fundation;
[11:08] <mako> i believe i suggested that already
[11:08] <Kamion> Mozilla is much more a US organisation due to its Netscape roots, though
[11:08] <Treenaks> better late than never.. I'm here
[11:08] <mako> Yann2: well.. before we go about creating local versions of the foundation,l we might want to, yknow, create the foundation
[11:08] <ogra> hey Treenaks 
[11:08] <Kamion> Canonical's headquarters are in the UK, although we're fairly global
[11:08] <Treenaks> hi ogra 
[11:09] <elmo> Kamion: IM damn it
[11:09] <elmo> .gov.uk might be listening ;)
[11:09] <Yann2> mako > i thought it was already done.
[11:09] <\sh> Kamion: hmmm...it's a _canonical_ location, right? ,-)
[11:09] <mako> before we create splinter or support organizations, we should try to get the foundation really off the ground
[11:09] <Seveas> mako, agreed
[11:09] <mako> Yann2: if the paperwork is done, then that's it.. i haven't heard anything about it and i'm supposedly one of the advisors
[11:10] <Yann2> also, we really need to set up that _now_.
[11:10] <elmo> Yann2: why?
[11:10] <mako> i think we should give the ubuntu foundation some time to figure out what it can and cannot do
[11:10] <Yann2> we got plenty of offers we can not accept because of our unofficial status
[11:10] <mdke> i also have misgivings about the wisdow of creating a splinter of the foundation run by volunteers rather than by canonical employees
[11:10] <Yann2> and we need them
[11:10] <mako> Yann2: listen, if you guys have people that want to donate to your locos
[11:10] <mako> Yann2: but need a charity to do so, we can provide that place
[11:10] <Yann2> as a french association?
[11:11] <Seveas> Yann2, is that 'french' required? 
[11:11] <mako> Yann2: when i said that we as the foundation probably can't go around buying loco's hardware,  that didn't meant that we wouldn't be able to accept and deploy earmarked for locos
[11:11] <ogra> mdke, s/canonical/foundation :)
[11:11] <\sh> mako: hmm..i think it's more in the sense of "Gentoo Foundation" and "Gentoo e.V." in Germany. 
[11:11] <mako> Yann2: in any situation, i really think we need to let the parent be created and get off the ground before we create spliter organizations
[11:11] <smurfix> some countries do require charities to be local :-/
[11:11] <mako> smurfix: yes, that's true
[11:11] <Yann2> Seveas > yeap, there is some taxes issues
[11:12] <Kamion> so if it's solely a French organisation (for e.g. tax rebate purposes) it should be called Ubuntu France surely ...
[11:12] <\sh> smurfix: charities == e.V.?
[11:12] <mako> so, if what you want is a specific non-profit for a couple loco-teams, that's fine
[11:12] <Yann2> there will be one, too.
[11:12] <smurfix> \sh: gemeinntziger eV
[11:12] <\sh> smurfix: yes
[11:12] <mako> but that doesn't need to become the ubuntu foundation europe
[11:12] <Yann2> the fact is, we're collecting money together with ubuntu-de
[11:12] <Yann2> we got a common bank account...
[11:12] <\sh> smurfix: hard to establish for these things here in germany...as I saw with gentoo e.v.
[11:12] <mako> Yann2: ok.. if you're going to create an organization, there is going to be a lot involved
[11:12] <Yann2> it should not be called ubuntu-FR
[11:13] <Yann2> mako > i know, i'm working on it for a lot of time now.
[11:13] <mdke> mako, ++
[11:13] <Kamion> um - Europe > France + Germany ;-)
[11:13] <mako> everything from trademark licenses to relationships with the ubuntu foundation which is not even off the ground
[11:13] <Yann2> Kamion > i got in touch with MANY people, many locoteam leaders. It's not just germany and france.
[11:13] <mako> Kamion: depends on who you are talking to :)
[11:13] <elmo> Yann2: that's nice and all, but the foundation IS based in Europe
[11:14] <mako> Yann2: i don't think this proposal is ready for the council
[11:14] <Yann2> what is the ubuntu foundation supposed to do?
[11:14] <mako> Yann2: these are questions we are still figuring out
[11:14] <mdz> Yann2: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/UbuntuFoundation
[11:14] <Yann2> if we can got the stuff we're asking for, then fine.
[11:14] <elmo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Foundation
[11:14] <mako> Yann2: which is why this converation is very premature
[11:14] <adomanski> you see we want something controlled directly by the communities
[11:15] <mako> adomanski: he wants to see a foundation to buy his locos servers
[11:15] <Yann2> mako > about every locoteam leader in europe knows about ubuntu europe
[11:15] <Yann2> they, until now, agreed there should be that organisation
[11:15] <Seveas> Yann2, s/that/a/
[11:15] <mdke> no, our team is not agreed about it
[11:15] <adomanski> mako: and to do marketing and organizing stuff
[11:15] <Seveas> and the Ubuntu foundation may just as well fill that void
[11:15] <mako> alright
[11:15] <mako> lets stop this here
[11:15] <Yann2> I got some contacts, including HP, promising to give us servers, money, once we got official.
[11:16] <mako> Yann2: if hp is trying to donate servers for european locos, we can accept those through the normal ubuntu foundation
[11:16] <mako> Yann2: you haven't mentioned this to me in any of our private mails
[11:16] <Yann2> mako > you didn't answer on irc
[11:16] <mako> Yann2: you were merely talking in terms of us buying you hardware
[11:16] <mdke> don't forget there is a significant amount of mutual learning that we can do via the existing setup: we have a common irc channel and a mailing list.
[11:16] <Yann2> i tried a couple of times.
[11:16] <mako> Yann2: i've been traveling
[11:16] <mdke> the existing structure can do much
[11:16] <Yann2> that was before we got the money :/
[11:16] <mako> Yann2: you should have sent email
[11:16] <mako> in any situation
[11:16] <mako> this is a *huge* issue
[11:17] <Yann2> mdke told me to come debate that here.
[11:17] <mako> we've got to figure something out in regards to the ubuntu foundation
[11:17] <mako> right
[11:17] <mako> i'm going to suggest we create a new meeting 
[11:17] <mako> to just talk about this
[11:17] <Yann2> fine to me.
[11:17] <mako> probably with jane silber, myself, you, smurfix, mark, etc
[11:17] <\sh> actually, I don't like the idea...cause it gives too much of troubles..as I realised in the past with my gentoo project
[11:17] <mako> and whoever else
[11:18] <mako> Yann2: write up u a draft agenda of issues you need covered
[11:18] <Kamion> I'm in complete agreement with mako here BTW; the foundation seems like a much better structure for dealing with donations like this, since it's going to be doing a certain amount of that kind of thing anyway
[11:18] <Seveas> mako, 'this' being thr ubuntu foundation + Yann2's plans i hope...
[11:18] <Yann2> btw, it's just about copyrights. we don't really need any help from the ubuntu foundation.
[11:18] <elmo> me too
[11:18] <mako> we may need to postpone this until we know what the foundation can and can't do
[11:18] <elmo> Yann2: dude, you're using the Ubuntu name
[11:18] <mdke> \sh, complete agreement: i don't think the ramifications of this project have been thought through
[11:18] <mako> if that doesn't fit your timescale, that may just be life
[11:18] <elmo> you absolutely need help from the Foundation and/or Canonical
[11:18] <mako> better to not screw up at the beginning when setting this up
[11:18] <Yann2> elmo > As I am with Ubuntu fr :)
[11:18] <mako> alright
[11:18] <\sh> Yann2: dealing with trademarks and copyrights is a quite difficult game...and you will pay a hell of a lot for lawyers..
[11:19] <mako> Yann2: send me a proposed agenda.. lets continue this later :)
[11:19] <Yann2> ok.
[11:19] <\sh> Yann2: and this money is better to be spend in freedom toasters for ubuntu in europe then anything else
[11:19] <kinjoo> +1 for the seperate meeting. this needs to be solved
[11:19] <Kamion> Yann2: the locoteams are something we've been doing for a long time. you're proposing to set up basically an alternative to the Ubuntu Foundation, which is a very different matter
[11:19] <mako> let's move on
[11:19] <mako> ubuntufutureproject
[11:19] <Yann2> Kamion > it's not really an alternative :)
[11:19] <smurfix> \sh: don't worry ;-)
[11:19] <Yann2> we won't be developing ubuntu
[11:19] <Yann2> well.
[11:19] <adomanski> Thank you Mako.
[11:19] <adomanski> Did everybody read: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFutureProject
[11:20] <\sh> smurfix: hehe :) I had my experience :(
[11:20] <mako> i did
[11:20] <Kamion> UbuntuFutureProject seems like something that should just be developed and tried out; does it need to be brought to the CC for a particular reason?
[11:20] <mako> adomanski: it's unclear what you want to do and why you think you need CC approval
[11:20] <mako> Kamion: what kamion said, except less clear
[11:20] <Seveas> adomanski, the Ubuntu brainstorming sessions take place at the conferences
[11:21] <adomanski> mako: first it was Yann2 idea to bring this up to CC. 2. I would like to see this as a part of the official homepage
[11:21] <Kamion> it seems like a reasonable thing to try, although inevitably whether developers find that it's an efficient use of time to go to it for ideas is entirely dependent on how good the design/implementation is
[11:21] <mako> Seveas: well, making that accessible to folks not a conferences seems like a plan
[11:21] <mdke> adomanski, if it works, maybe you can get it written up on the website
[11:21] <Kamion> adomanski: it'd have to be developed first before we could commit to that
[11:21] <mako> adomanski: the work flow here is basically to build something unofficially and then, once it is de facto offical, add it
[11:21] <ogra> mako, i thought thats why the udu wiki is still open for adding stuff
[11:22] <Kamion> adomanski: we'll also have a much better basis for having a conversation once there's something to look at :)
[11:22] <adomanski> mako: ok mako.
[11:22] <mako> adomanski: build something compelling.. you don't need our permission and then come to us when you think it's solid
[11:22] <adomanski> Kamion: I know it myself.
[11:22] <mako> of course
[11:22] <mako> that said
[11:22] <mako> if you're interested in helping out with this, you should work with adomanski :)
[11:22] <mako> i agree that the ideapool could really be replaced with something better
[11:23] <Kamion> so since it's something you're trying to build with the express purpose of being useful to the development community, you'd need to make sure to get feedback from the development community pretty regularly
[11:23] <adomanski> I just didn't want to spend a week of work to create something nobody wants
[11:23] <\sh> is not a wiki the best place for ideas?
[11:23] <Kamion> otherwise it becomes yet another pile of stuff nobody looks at
[11:23] <adomanski> \sh: wikis are very bad for discussions
[11:23] <mdke> \sh, people sometimes don't look at it
[11:23] <\sh> mdke: but this is not a problem of a wiki
[11:23] <dholbach> adomanski: a wiki page with an announce on the mailing list maybe?
[11:23] <Kamion> I do tend to think that ubuntu-devel@lists is a much better place for discussions
[11:24] <\sh> adomanski: u think? enhance moin moin :)
[11:24] <adomanski> developers discuss their ideas on mailing lists. but this is about _users_ guys
[11:24] <Kamion> wiki pages are better for making sure stuff doesn't get lost
[11:24] <mdke> \sh, it is to a certain extent
[11:24] <Kamion> adomanski: you want to get developers' attention, you got to work *with* developers
[11:24] <mdke> different tools work for different things
[11:24] <Kamion> adomanski: and you're talking explicitly about third-party developers here.
[11:24] <Seveas> adomanski, if you want to involve users in development [11:24] <\sh> mdke: but wikis were invented as a idea well...scratch board for ideas and comments on this..
[11:25] <Kamion> Seveas: not if it's about fundamental bits of the OS
[11:25] <Seveas> Kamion, true
[11:25] <ogra> adomanski, you should just build a communication bridge to MOTU
[11:25] <Kamion> which IdeaPool often is
[11:25] <adomanski> Kamion: we need developers attention, sure. But I think users should give their ideas. Ubuntu is about users.
[11:25] <mako> alright
[11:25] <mako> lets move on
[11:25] <mako> kinjoo: hey, you had a subpoint
[11:25] <Kamion> adomanski: there is no point doing anything if you dismiss developers' needs, e.g. time constraints
[11:25] <mako> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoshKress/PromotingUbuntu
[11:26] <ogra> Kamion, i thought for the fundamental things the udu wiki spec process was still the preferred way...
[11:26] <\sh> adomanski: that's what motus are for....listen to the users, improve ubuntu linux, and put it after some time to main views 
[11:26] <Kamion> ogra: yeah
[11:26] <kinjoo> jo, we should discuss some promotion issuesa
[11:26] <ogra> so we alrady have such a process in place...
[11:26] <kinjoo> first of all how about a ml for those dicussions?
[11:26] <ogra> its just not used..
[11:26] <mako> kinjoo: yeah, lets do it
[11:26] <adomanski> \sh: Yeah nice. And users want to scratch down stugg.
[11:26] <adomanski> stuff
[11:26] <ubuntu_demon> regarding promotion .. I'm discussing an unofficial Ubuntu Commercial on the forums (see my wiki)
[11:27] <\sh> adomanski: yes...see wikipedia, or wiki.ubuntu...so many pages from plain users ...
[11:27] <kinjoo> then, how should deal with issues when collaborating with other projects?
[11:28] <kinjoo> as this includes the foundation obviously I can wait for this to settle down
[11:28] <Seveas> Another thing about promotion: is The Fridge ever going to happen?
[11:28] <ogra> Seveas, good question
[11:28] <adomanski> \sh: You guys are developers (I guess), _you_ can use mailing lists. Did you ever think about how complicated it is for a user to keep track of everything without knowing how mailing lists work? Does not seem so to me. 
[11:29] <mako> kinjoo: yeah, to the continue the meeting
[11:29] <Seveas> adomanski, we have moved on already please discuss that in private
[11:29] <mdke> --> bed, night all
[11:29] <\sh> adomanski: lets take this to motu or somewhere else...:) 
[11:29] <\sh> night mdke
[11:29] <adomanski> \sh alright
[11:29] <mako> kinjoo: to continue the whole "putting this offf"
[11:29] <ubuntu_demon> mdke: good night
[11:30] <mako> since this isn't a concrete proposal yet, it's probably best to put it off
[11:30] <mako> i think the thinking is good
[11:30] <kinjoo> ok, as soon as we have a ml for this, we can discuss that issues on that ml
[11:30] <\sh> mako: can I shortly interrupt with an important statement for channel ops?
[11:30] <mako> this is good thinking and writing.. but that makes sense
[11:30] <Kamion> so I think it's hard to answer the visibility of Canonical's logo stuff etc. until we have an idea what the Ubuntu Foundation's position is
[11:30] <mako> don't wait for the mailing lists
[11:30] <mako> please go ahead and use sounder for th is
[11:30] <mako> prove the need for the mailing list first
[11:31] <mako> there is nothing stopping you from going ahead with this n ow
[11:31] <kinjoo> mako ok!
[11:31] <mako> kinjoo: awesome :)
[11:31] <mako> kinjoo: thanks dude
[11:31] <mako> i can tell you've been thinking about this stuff
[11:31] <mako> and i appreciate the work and thought that you are putting into this
[11:31] <Seveas> yeah, sounder@ is a great place to get this thing started
[11:31] <mako> alright
[11:31] <mako> is there any other business
[11:31] <kinjoo> mako can we use #ubuntu-meeting as well as long as it is not used for meeting?
[11:31] <mako> IS THERE ANY OTHER BUSINESS
[11:31] <\sh> yes
[11:32] <mako> kinjoo: yes, that's fine
[11:32] <ubuntu_demon> 1 question .. what is sounder ?
[11:32] <\sh> YES
[11:32] <Seveas> mako, yes, \sh wants :)
[11:32] <Seveas> ubuntu_demon, another mailinglist
[11:32] <mako> ubuntu_demon: it's the everything-is-on-topic list
[11:32] <\sh> ok....I know some channel mods/ops are listening now
[11:32] <Kamion> if you want to ask questions of Canonical about sponsorship and such, it's probably best to ask Canonical directly
[11:32] <mako> ubuntu_demon: mostly for social non-development or support issues
[11:32] <ubuntu_demon> ok thnx
[11:32] <mako> \sh: right
[11:32] <mako> \sh: go ahead
[11:32] <Kamion> mako: info@canonical.com would be the correct address for that, right?
[11:32] <\sh> We had some issues with "Logging ubuntu-Channels" without mentioning it in the topic for newbies
[11:32] <mako> yes
[11:32] <mako> email info@canonical.com
[11:33] <\sh> please put in your topics of all channels which are logged: "This Channel is Logged: Please visit <url here> for the log"
[11:33] <Seveas> \sh, includeing #ubuntu?
[11:33] <Seveas> The topic is crowded already there...
[11:33] <\sh> Seveas: including...(actually I don't know if it's written there)
[11:34] <Seveas> and for the locoteams locobot announces it
[11:34] <Seveas> locoteam-channels i mean
[11:34] <\sh> but this is really important...cause logging without knowledge of the user is not nice
[11:34] <Seveas> \sh, I disagree
[11:34] <\sh> Seveas: #ubuntu-de didn't
[11:34] <dholbach> nobody reads the topic
[11:34] <Seveas> IRC channels are always logged by clients
[11:34] <\sh> Seveas: but not on the web in public
[11:35] <Seveas> True, but I don't really see the need to abuse the topic for it...
[11:35] <Kamion> I really don't want something that verbose in #ubuntu-devel's topic; the space is valuable
[11:35] <Kamion> I wouldn't object to just the URL
[11:35] <Seveas> Kamion, just like in here :)
[11:35] <Seveas> that might be a good idea though
[11:35] <\sh> Kamion: ubuntu-devel is something special...but local ubuntu channels should mention it, cause they're not logged in that way like #ubuntu-meeting
[11:36] <\sh> or #ubuntu-devel
[11:36] <\sh> I don't mind...but some people are not writing good about it...and the written word is a strong weapon
[11:36] <Seveas> true
[11:37] <Seveas> since i'm the topic-gardener in #ubuntu anyway, I'll put it in
[11:37] <mako> so...
[11:37] <mako> Seveas: alright
[11:37] <\sh> or announce it every 4h with the log bot
[11:37] <Seveas> \sh, ewwwwwwwwwwww no
[11:37] <\sh> ,-)
[11:38] <Seveas> that's so friggen obnoxious
[11:38] <mako> more imporant in #u anyway
[11:38] <mako> alright
[11:38] <Kamion> right
[11:38] <smurfix> \sh: my bot sends a NOTICE to everybody when they enter a channel for the first time
[11:38] <mako> #u-d is a different crowd.. should know better
[11:38] <\sh> smurfix: actually not to rince :(
[11:38] <mako> ] 
[11:38] <Seveas> Any other things..?
[11:39] <smurfix> \sh: I added that after he complained ...
[11:39] <mako> right
[11:39] <\sh> smurfix: u see ;)
[11:39] <mako> ANY OTHER BUSINESS...
[11:39] <mako> going once
[11:39] <mako> going twice...
[11:39] <Seveas> yes
[11:39] <Seveas> (kidding :))
[11:39] <mako> bastard
[11:39] <mako> GONE
[11:39] <mako> *gavel*
[11:39] <mako> Seveas: you had me there :)
[11:39] <mako> alright
[11:39] <mako> next meeting should be in two week
[11:39] <Seveas> 14:00 UTC?
[11:39] <mako> august 16
[11:39] <mako> 12:UTC i think
[11:39] <Kamion> I will not be at the next meeting; little teensy detail of being on honeymoon
[11:40] <Seveas> I'll update the wiki/topic in here
[11:40] <Seveas> ok 12:00 UTC
[11:40] <elmo> Kamion: slacker
[11:40] <mako> Kamion: unacceptable
[11:40] <\sh> Kamion: have fun dude :)
[11:40] <Kamion> :-)
[11:40] <mako> cool
[11:40] <ogra> Kamion, oh, already ?
[11:40] <Seveas> Kamion, congratulations
[11:40] <mako> mark should be able to make a UTC12 meeting
[11:40] <dholbach> :)
[11:40] <mako> alright everyone
[11:40] <mako> thanks for the stamina once again
[11:40] <Kamion> ta
[11:40] <\sh> Kamion: conrats btw...:) 
[11:40] <\sh> +g
[11:40] <mako> or coffee
[11:40] <mako> better idea
[11:40] <ubuntu_demon> okay guys .. I'll try to be there next meeting
[11:41] <kinjoo> coffee? me too!
[11:41] <\sh> ok...gone to bed