[12:38] <jordi> can anyone here confirm liblaunchpad-integrration is GPL?
[12:39] <lexhider> seems so, check /usr/share/doc
[12:39] <Seveas> Where can i find the specification of the changelog format?
[12:40] <Seveas> Or isn't that format all that strict?
[12:40] <ogra> Seveas, probably the debian policy docs
[12:40] <ogra> (i have no link)
[12:40] <Seveas> but no luck yet in finding anything
[12:41] <ogra> but its pretty strict, vim shows wrong lines instantly, there must be a spec
[12:41] <mdz> jordi: debian/copyright
[12:43] <jordi> mdz: this box is Debian
[12:43] <jordi> the Broken OS
[12:44] <mdz> jordi: apt-get source launchpad-integration
[12:44] <mdz> baz get jamesh@..../...
[12:45] <jordi> ooh, that baz thing :P
[12:46] <mdz> jordi: get used to it :-P
[12:46] <dholbach> ok pals, i'm off to bed - see you around
[12:47] <jordi> yeah man
[02:49] <infinity> Kamion : libdebian-installer fails on ia64 because ia64 doesn't support -gstabs (for reference, neither for ppc64, so that'll fail if/when it ever becomes a supported debian/ubuntu build target)
[02:50] <infinity> Kamion : s/neither for/neither does/
[02:50] <elmo> what the heck is using stabs?
[02:50] <elmo> stabs is so fucking 60s
[02:53] <bddebian> elmo: Can I get white-listed for kate notifications?
[02:53] <infinity> Only if you get her name right.
[02:53] <infinity> Poor thing.
[02:53] <bddebian> ?
[02:54] <elmo> bddebian: yeah, you're in the whitelist locally; I'll sync it tomorrow
[02:54] <elmo> bddebian: it's katie, not kate
[02:54] <bddebian> Oh, OK, thank you
[02:54] <bddebian> Ohhh katie, sorry
[03:01] <glick> hello
[03:01] <bddebian> Hello glick 
[03:02] <glick> excuse me, twice now, i have tried to backport wxpython2.6.3 to hoary and after like an hour and a half of building i get a segmentation fault when it processes the tex files and tries to convert them to html
[03:02] <glick> and it of course deletes the entire build tree that it created so far so i have to start over again
[03:02] <glick> anyone kow whats going on with this?
[03:03] <bddebian> Use -nc if you don't want it to clean your build-tree
[03:03] <glick> bddebian, but i dont know if it still has important things to build, i dont know if without that ill be able to install it
[03:04] <glick> this is the eror line
[03:04] <glick> /bin/sh: line 1:  4845 Segmentation fault      LD_LIBRARY_PATH=../objs_gtk_sh/lib: ../objs_gtk_sh/utils/tex2rtf/src/tex2rtf ../docs/latex/wx/manual.tex ../docs/wx-manual.html/wx2.6-manual.html -twice -html
[03:04] <glick> make: *** [build-doc-stamp]  Error 139
[03:04] <infinity> glick : Backtrace it in gdb.
[03:06] <glick> infinity, im not sure what i would backtrace, its not like it dropped a core file
[03:06] <glick> and it sucks to have to do that again with no result
[03:06] <infinity> glick : Sure, but you can re-run that one line without restarting the build.
[03:07] <infinity> glick : So, do the build until it fails, then re-run that one bit in gdb, and backtrace the segv.
[03:07] <glick> infinity, not really cause all the stuff has been deleted
[03:07] <infinity> glick : No, nothing gets deleted until you re-start the build and debian/rules clean is run again.
[03:08] <infinity> (Well, unless that package has a really broken build system that cleans on failure, but that would be retarded...)
[03:08] <glick> infinity, it says.. after that line clearning the build enviorbment removing directory so and so
[03:10] <glick> i think i might jsut say screw wxpythin
[03:10] <glick> look for another gui framework
[03:26] <bob2> you're using pbuilder?
[03:27] <bddebian> ?
[03:27] <infinity> He was talking to glick.
[03:27] <bddebian> Aye
[03:29] <glick> bob2, yes i was
[03:29] <bob2> there you go then
[03:29] <glick> bob2, i was told to use pbuilder
[03:29] <bob2> either don't use it, or configure it to not destroy the build tree on failure
[03:30] <bob2> I recommend not using it
[03:31] <bob2> using pbuilder is fine, as long as you know what it's for and what it does
[03:32] <glick> i dont really i just wanted the latest version of wxpython :)
[05:33] <glick> does anyone here also do any development for Windows?
[05:40] <camilotelles> glick, I do
[05:41] <glick> camilotelles, is there any documentation on how one would access the cdrw on windows for example in your code if you wanted to write a burnner app
[05:42] <camilotelles> glick
[05:42] <camilotelles> Image Mastering API
[05:43] <glick> camilotelles, where can i read up on that?
[05:43] <camilotelles> glick, http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/devio/base/image_mastering_api.asp
[05:43] <bddebian> Ack, my eyes, my eyes..
[05:45] <glick> camilotelles, where are these functions available?
[05:45] <glick> do i have to buy .NEt to access these?
[05:45] <camilotelles> bddebian, take easy, i'm only asking a question :)
[05:45] <bddebian> :-)
[05:46] <camilotelles> glick, i think this is from the base system.
[05:48] <glick> damn there arnt any examples 
[05:48] <glick> i forget windows isnt linux and everyone is a closed source/shareware asshole
[05:50] <whiprush> more than likely we're all nice people and you're just offtopic. :)
[05:50] <camilotelles> glick, whiprush is right. 
[06:24] <netdur> poeple, I don't know if you know about new icons or not... but take a look, it worth! http://nuovext.pwsp.net
[06:29] <bob2> so, backports people
[06:29] <bob2> apparently someone backported smeg to hoary
[06:29] <bob2> which apparently neccessitated a newer pyxdg
[06:29] <bob2> said new pyxdg breaks gnome-app-installer
[06:29] <Amaranth> oh, i may or may not have given them the pyxdg package that's in the old backports :P
[06:29] <Amaranth> i can't remember
[06:30] <Amaranth> but it's still a problem in the new repo
[06:35] <mdz> bob2: Mez is the person to talk to
[06:44] <srbaker> do i seriously need a bugzilla account to VIEW bug reports?
[06:44] <srbaker> oh, thank god
[06:45] <bddebian> You shouldn't
[06:45] <bddebian> Ohh
[06:45] <srbaker> 12613 is fucking ridiculous.
[06:46] <srbaker> Ubuntu ships with pre-release software, and there's actually a discussion about it when it starts breaking shit
[06:48] <jdub> srbaker: chill, please
[06:49] <srbaker> jdub, hey, i'm chilled.
[06:49] <srbaker> jdub, i just want to know when i'll be able to get work done wihout having to spend my days building custom packages for my co-workers
[06:50] <srbaker> sigh
[06:50] <jdub> pfft
[06:50] <jsgotangco> pfft?
[06:50] <jsgotangco> heh hi btw
[06:54] <srbaker> jdub, okay, i'm sorry for being a bit impatient.
[06:54] <srbaker> jdub, i was under the understanding that this was a solved problem, and then i looked at the bug and saw otherwise.
[06:54] <srbaker> jdub, this is the source of a huge amount of pain for our entire team
[06:55] <jdub> srbaker: so would you be willing to test an updated package to ease our concerns that it would be inappropriate for hoary-updates?
[06:55] <srbaker> absolutely.
[06:55] <jdub> i really think that's all it comes down to
[06:55] <srbaker> all six of us would gladly.
[06:55] <srbaker> i didn't see any mention of update packages on the bug.  just multiple suggestions to "use backports"
[06:56] <srbaker> i do *not* use backports, because they are unstable and buggy.
[06:56] <Lathiat> What's this about?
[06:56] <srbaker> Lathiat, hoary shipped with a pre-release hoary.
[06:56] <jdub> ok, so perhaps grab the backports build, and then comment on the bug about your testing
[06:56] <Lathiat> srbaker: hoary? 
[06:56] <Lathiat> you mean ruy?
[06:56] <Lathiat> *ruby?
[06:56] <jdub> Lathiat: ruby
[06:56] <srbaker> ruby
[06:56] <Lathiat> ah right
[06:56] <Lathiat> i thought so
[06:56] <srbaker> sorry
[06:57] <jdub> (i totally understand horrored distrust of backports)
[06:57] <srbaker> jdub, heh.  you don't know the half of it.  our entire development team has standardized on ubuntu.  there have been...  some annoyances.
[06:57] <srbaker> and some major fucking problems.
[06:57] <srbaker> most of them have been since traced back to backports usage :P
[06:57] <jdub> productive feedback always appreciated
[06:57] <srbaker> jdub, so the ruby in backports is the "officially" sanctioned package then/
[06:58] <jdub> mmm, ugly backports pain
[06:58] <jdub> srbaker: well, no, but if it tests well, we could push it in hoary-updates
[06:58] <srbaker> hrm
[06:58] <jsgotangco> (hate to admit, but i use the ruby in backports for rails)
[06:58] <srbaker> okay, i'll take a look at it
[06:58] <jdub> which then would be official, supported, etc.
[06:58] <jdub> but we really can't do it on a whim
[06:58] <srbaker> currently we're using packages that i built from debian sarge.
[06:58] <jdub> which i think makes sense
[06:58] <mdz> hoary-backports is likely to become a staging area for hoary-updates in some cases
[06:59] <jdub> and is the kind of trusted state you'd expect for a supportable platform :-)
[06:59] <jdub> mdz: rock
[06:59] <srbaker> jdub, makes sense but this is a huge problem for us and many others, and it's been almost a month with no hint at the possibility of an official resolution
[06:59] <jdub> srbaker: mm, but it is kind of a quiet bug
[06:59] <srbaker> alright, i'm biased. 
[07:00] <jdub> srbaker: i mean, you haven't even commented :-)
[07:00] <srbaker> jdub, i haven't needed to.  my co-workers have.
[07:00] <mdz> we can't be held responsible for the fact that they fixed some particularly interesting bug 2 days after we froze ruby
[07:00] <jdub> ok
[07:00] <jdub> mdz: though, to be fair, we did ship a pre-release (trusting debian unstable in the process)
[07:00] <mdz> this happened 4 months before release; if someone had mentioned it during that time, this would have been easy to fix
[07:00] <srbaker> mdz, imho, if there's a "pre" in the version number, it should be closely watched for updates and included.
[07:01] <srbaker> shipping pre-release software just seems stupid.
[07:01] <mdz> there are lots of pre-release packages which go out with stable releases
[07:01] <mdz> it's at the discretion of the maintainer, and they usually know what they are doing
[07:01] <srbaker> i know.  it's frightening
[07:01] <jdub> srbaker: understand the POV, but there are different ways of looking at things from the "shipping a supportable distro" POV too
[07:01] <lexhider> hi, jdub: If I remember correctly bug #12050  is a duplicate of a bug you commented, I was having trouble finding it.
[07:02] <srbaker> jdub, okay.  thanks for being helpful.  sorry to be a prick, but this has been an ongoing PITA
[07:02] <srbaker> jdub, it's been the source of a lot of problems at work
[07:03] <jdub> srbaker: s'ok. but we are usually not so diplomatic in reaction to this kind of behavior, so please don't take this as a useful strategy for getting your problems solved in ubuntu. :-)
[07:03] <srbaker> jdub, heh, of course not.  keep in mind to you this is the first time you've seen it, and i apologize for not taking this into consideration.  for me, this is a month-old problem with a seemingly simple solution
[07:03] <jdub> lexhider: hrm, there's a few of these
[07:04] <srbaker> jdub, also, i was under the impression that at least two of my co-workers have bitched in here about it already and were basically told to fuck off
[07:04] <lexhider> jdub: it's hard to search for duplicates when it takes so long. ;)
[07:04] <jdub> lexhider: kind of annoying to be getting the big .js file from https ;)
[07:04] <mdz> srbaker: it may seem simple to you, but there is a lot of potential for breakage in blindly including an enormous patch in a stable release
[07:04] <srbaker> mdz, true, but it seems unlikely that software will depend on a bug in a pre-release that was only in the world for a couple days 
[07:05] <mdz> srbaker: if someone behaved inappropriately (CoC) toward them, I'd like to hear about it (with quotes)
[07:05] <jdub> srbaker: there could be bugs in the changes between pre and final
[07:05] <mdz> srbaker: certainly not, and I would be unlikely to object to fixing that bug
[07:05] <mdz> srbaker: but I do object to blindly including an enormous, unauditable patch
[07:06] <jdub> srbaker: as an upstream, i am totally happy for distros to be fundamentally untrustworthy of my prissy version number statements about stability ;-)
[07:06] <srbaker> mdz, i'll ask around.  i think it was more of a general dismissal than inappropriate behaviour.
[07:06] <srbaker> jdub, fair enough.
[07:06] <srbaker> okay, then this brings me to my next question
[07:06] <mdz> srbaker: if you know what the specific bug is, and can help us to isolate a patch, that would help to move things forward
[07:06] <srbaker> can we pay canonical for specific focus on the things that trouble us?
[07:06] <mdz> but this isn't going to fly:  52 files changed, 6277 insertions(+), 279 deletions(-)
[07:07] <srbaker> we lose money when ubuntu gets in our ways, and it's been doing so quite a bit lately.
[07:07] <srbaker> (well, me.  others have different problems of different sizes)
[07:07] <jdub> srbaker: yeah, you can - yay for support :-)
[07:07] <srbaker> could we perhaps pay for the day or three that it would take to audit and include this patch?  and how much would it cost?
[07:08] <jdub> srbaker: in fact, if you want to email me about what you're doing, and the problems you've faced, that would be really helpful -> jeff.waugh@canonical.com
[07:08] <srbaker> jdub, this ruby one has been the show stopper.  there have been other issues, but i am unable to pin them on ubuntu because my co-workers aren't as strict about package integrity as i am
[07:08] <mdz> srbaker: why would you want to do that, instead of getting your bug fixed directly?
[07:09] <srbaker> mdz, well, my assumption is that the reason this bug is taken less seriously than others is a matter of business.  if we pay for your time, then we can pick what bugs are addressed in that time, no?
[07:09] <jdub> mdz: (customers setting priorities for bug fixing through a commercial transaction...)
[07:09] <srbaker> that's how i've done with other commercial vendors in the past
[07:10] <jdub> srbaker: hrm, not a matter of business that the bug has not been fixed yet
[07:10] <srbaker> RH, in particular has been great at this.
[07:10] <mdz> srbaker: of course you could get your bug fixed as part of a support arrangement, but I don't see why you would insist on fixing the methodology
[07:10] <srbaker> mdz, i don't care about anything but the right version of ruby being in hoary :)
[07:10] <mdz> srbaker: that's not a support issue
[07:10] <srbaker> and if paying for it will make it happen more quickly, i'm sure i can convince the right people to cough up the dollars to make it happen
[07:11] <srbaker> mdz, we seem to disagree over whether shipping a pre-release known-buggy piece of software is stupid then.
[07:11] <mdz> if what you need is a stable and supported Ubuntu build of a certain version of ruby, we can certainly provide that
[07:11] <mdz> but it won't force a decision about what gets included in the official releases
[07:12] <mdz> srbaker: yes, we do.  it is not as simple as that.
[07:12] <srbaker> so the policy of including pre-release known-buggy software isn't seen as a problem then?
[07:12] <jdub> srbaker: (it's not a policy)
[07:12] <mdz> known-buggy?
[07:13] <jdub> srbaker: in some cases, we need to ship pre-release software (or patches out of cvs) to be able to support things; in this case, it was largely a timing and feedback issue
[07:14] <jdub> srbaker: but this is just to explain why it is the way it is; it doesn't really impact whether we can fix it or not
[07:14] <jdub> :-)
[07:14] <mdz> there was no bug reported about this issue until last month, which was three months after Hoary released
[07:14] <mdz> and there still isn't a proper bug report; just a request for a new version (which is why it ended up with backports)
[07:14] <srbaker> "you shipped a pre-release buggy version of X" is a proper bug report
[07:15] <srbaker> and the appropriate fix is to ship the non-pre-release version
[07:15] <jdub> srbaker: the "buggy" bit is the proper bug :-)
[07:15] <jdub> srbaker: if the differences were small, that would be a no-brainer, but they were not, so it has to be more carefully considered (and tested)
[07:15] <jdub> so the way forward, i think,
[07:16] <jdub> is to ask the affected users to test an updated package
[07:16] <jdub> so we can be comfortable shipping it in hoary-updates (and thus an officially supported fix)
[07:16] <srbaker> okay, well we'll test it.  does this mean that ruby1.9pre might make it into breezy though?
[07:16] <mdz> no, that is not a proper bug report.  a proper bug report would be "this bit of ruby isn't working properly; here's a test case demonstrating the problem"
[07:16] <jdub> srbaker: well, the timing issues are going to be different, i'm sure
[07:16] <Lathiat> mdz: that wouldnt be entirely effective in this case
[07:16] <jdub> what's in breezy atm?
[07:16] <Lathiat> as rails does a version check
[07:17] <Lathiat> 1.8.2-1 in breezy
[07:17] <jdub> Version: 1.8.2-1
[07:17] <Lathiat> mdz: think firefox
[07:17] <mdz> Lathiat: I'd be happy to patch that out
[07:17] <jdub> and we're already UVF
[07:17] <Lathiat> breezy's ruby+rails setup works fine
[07:17] <jdub> srbaker: so there's no problem at all in breezy
[07:17] <Lathiat> mdz: right but if someone wants to use a gem, they get the same problem
[07:17] <jsgotangco> yeah it works fine in breezy
[07:17] <mdz> jdub: unless, of course, we pull a new version in order to fix a known bug
[07:18] <jdub> srbaker: again, there is no "we ship pre-release software" policy - it came straight from debian sid
[07:18] <jdub> mdz: yeah
[07:18] <Lathiat> yeh ive successfully used rails on breezy
[07:18] <srbaker> so have i.
[07:18] <Lathiat> its a shame the bug wasnt caught pre-hoary
[07:18] <jdub> srbaker: and crucially, it survived the testing process :)
[07:18] <ajmitch> Lathiat: I think rails didn't have that check until after hoary released
[07:19] <Lathiat> ajmitch: It must have, because the version in hoary whinges
[07:19] <jdub> ajmitch: damn, like that bloody firefox page!
[07:19] <Lathiat> jdub: like i said a minute ago, "think firefox". :)
[07:19] <jdub> haha
[07:19] <Lathiat> ... and dont kill me for the pain and suffering that results.
[07:20] <jdub> ok
[07:20] <jdub> party time
[07:20] <mdz> Lathiat: that means that no one tested rails, and since it's in universe, it wasn't a priority for centralized QA
[07:20] <jdub> later :)
[07:20] <Lathiat> mdz: indeed
[07:20] <ajmitch> mdz: sadly the people that want to use those packages won't find the bugs until it's too late for the MOTUs
[07:21] <mdz> ajmitch: I don't think that's inherently true
[07:21] <mdz> lots of users test software that's important to them in ubuntu pre-releases
[07:21] <mdz> that's absolutely the best way to ensure that the next ubuntu release is high-quality in the ways that matter to you
[07:22] <ajmitch> as long as enough people test & report the bugs for fixing, we're ok
[07:22] <ajmitch> rails just seemed to slip through, I think
[07:22] <srbaker> rails didn't have the version check until 0.13.1
[07:23] <jsgotangco> its all in breezy though
[07:23] <srbaker> good!
[07:23] <srbaker> we're planning on migrating the office to breezy upon freeze, and spending a week hammering it, iirc.
[07:23] <ajmitch> srbaker: right, that's what I thought, so it's a case of using post-hoary rails with hoary ruby
[07:23] <mdz> that's wonderful; that way you can be certain that when it releases, the ruby stuff is up to par
[07:24] <jsgotangco> yeah me an ogra were talking about ruby/rails stuff a few days ago
[07:24] <srbaker> ajmitch, yeah.  it also broke some other software that doesn't actually check but crashes with the bug.  i think alexandria was affected.
[07:24] <jamesh> you could just use zope3 :)
[07:24] <jsgotangco> *grin*
[07:24] <jamesh> that's what we're using
[07:25] <ajmitch> jamesh: why not, packages are in debian experimental iirc :)
[07:25] <ajmitch> not sure if they've been imported to breezy yet
[07:25] <jamesh> ajmitch: we aren't actually using a packaged version of zope3
[07:27] <ajmitch> jamesh: I wouldn't expect you to at the moment
[07:27] <srbaker> zope.  hehe
[07:27] <srbaker> i don't think zope can handle the kind of traffic we do.  otherwise, i'd suggest it
[07:27] <srbaker> well, not on a manageable amount of hardware
[07:30] <srbaker> jdub, okay, thanks for easing my mind on this.  much better than the feedback my co-workers were getting when they checked it out
[07:31] <srbaker> i won't care anyways.  everyone else on my team is staying with ubuntu.  they ordered me a mac today. :P
[07:31] <jsgotangco> lol
[07:31] <jsgotangco> srbaker: if its any help to you, my colleagues at work are ruby/rails people as well and using them on breezy at the moment
[07:32] <jsgotangco> aside from the other guys using it on windows
[07:32] <srbaker> jsgotangco, yeah, i know breezy is pretty decent, but i'm not willing to risk it
[07:32] <jsgotangco> yeah
[07:32] <srbaker> we have enough problems with supposedly stable software :P
[07:38] <srbaker> jsgotangco, how many rails developers at your work?
[07:38] <jsgotangco> 4, not really rails-dedicated btw
[07:39] <jsgotangco> not including me, i just dived in and getting my feet soaked
[07:41] <srbaker> ahh
[07:41] <srbaker> well, we're under the impression that we're currently the biggest rails dev shop outside of 37signals.  we're 6
[07:41] <Amaranth> ooh, new gamin
[07:41] <srbaker> 6, fulltime
[07:42] <srbaker> and well, we do more traffic than anyone on the internet except 44 sites, so we're also big in that way
[07:54] <pitti> Good morning
[07:55] <pitti> Hi mdz_ 
[07:57] <doko> good morning
[07:57] <pitti> Hey doko
[08:02] <doko>  hplip (0.9.4-2) unstable; urgency=low
[08:02] <doko>  .
[08:02] <doko>    * Matthias Klose <doko@ubuntu.com>:
[08:02] <doko>      * hplip-base should also replace files in hplip-data (<< 0.9.3)
[08:02] <doko>      * Run HPLIP daemons as non-root user (optional, default as run as root)
[08:02] <doko>        (closes: #320936)
[08:02] <doko> pitti: ^^^ for your statistics
[08:02] <pitti> doko: thanks! :-) Can you please send the patch to Debian, too?
[08:02] <sivang> morning all
[08:03] <doko> pitti: 0.9.4-2
[08:03] <Lathiat> doko, pitti: statistics?
[08:03] <pitti> doko: oh, I see :-)
[08:03] <pitti> doko: so can we make it the default in Ubuntu somehow?
[08:03] <doko> it already is
[08:03] <pitti> Lathiat: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerootificationStatus
[08:03] <pitti> doko: you are so great! :-)
[08:03] <Lathiat> pitti: ah
[08:04] <sivang> hi Lathiat , pitti 
[08:04] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[08:04] <Lathiat> yo sivang 
[08:04] <pitti> doko: added to the wiki page
[08:12] <calc> btw is there any bug reports about firefox on amd64 being unstable starting in the past week or so?
[08:14] <calc> its crashing pretty frequently on my box
[08:14] <pitti> calc: do you have the latest libcairo1? Try to upgrade
[08:15] <calc> 0.6.0-0ubuntu2
[08:15] <calc> afaik i have all the current stuff
[08:17] <Amaranth> "it's in breezy right now but unfortunately X doesn't work" ;)
[08:18] <calc> X kinda works ;)
[08:18] <calc> at times
[08:18] <calc> i don't restart X often since it has a habit of breaking
[08:18] <Amaranth> no, one of the lugradio guys said this
[08:18] <Amaranth> talking about cairo and gtk
[08:18] <calc> heh
[08:19] <Lathiat> X works
[08:19] <Amaranth> latest episode
[08:19] <Lathiat> as long as you hack up mkfontdir
[08:19] <Amaranth> no, that's fixed too
[08:19] <Amaranth> but this was recorded probably 2 or 3 weeks ago
[08:20] <Lathiat> thats fixed?
[08:20] <Lathiat> since when?
[08:20] <Lathiat> i dont remember seeing an X update
[08:20] <Amaranth> xfont-utils or something
[08:21] <sivang> pitti: can I ask you something about effecting packaging dependencies wrt launchpad integration? 
[08:21] <pitti> sure
[08:22] <Amaranth> what is launchpad-integration for exactly?
[08:23] <Amaranth> say 'integrating with launchpad' and i may have to smack you silly :P
[08:23] <sivang> Amaranth: install file-roller and find out :)
[08:24] <Amaranth> how could i not have that installed? :P
[08:24] <sivang> pitti: we need to create a helper function (like jamesh did for UIManager and glade) for bonnobo ui apps
[08:24] <sivang> Amaranth: hehe, after you isntalled, go to "Help" and see Launchpad smiling at you :)
[08:24] <Amaranth> sivang: nice, first thing i see is 'domain name mismatch' :P
[08:24] <Amaranth> that really needs to get fixed, it scares people away
[08:25] <sivang> Amaranth: bah, well what domain does it look for?
[08:25] <sivang> Amaranth: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadIntegration as well
[08:25] <Amaranth> err, maybe that's not what it says anymore, i clicked ok without reading
[08:26] <Amaranth> because i'm used to that stupid error
[08:26] <Amaranth> shit, now it won't do until until i start a new browser session
[08:26] <Amaranth> which i can't do because i have sessionsaver
[08:26] <sivang> Amaranth: weird never happend to me
[08:27] <Amaranth> ah
[08:27] <Amaranth> i see
[08:27] <sivang> pitti: however, bonnobo brings in ORBit, libgnome, libbonobo, gnome-vfs, etc
[08:27] <Amaranth> launchpad.ubuntu.com but the cert is for launchpad.net
[08:27] <sivang> pitti: and the current lib mainly depends on Gtk stuff, so would it be wise to toss this utility in another lib/package? 
[08:28] <sivang> Amaranth: tell that to stub , at #launchpad
[08:28] <sivang> Amaranth: I bet he'd like to know , or you have to refresh your cache or something
[08:28] <sivang> Amaranth: they changed the domain 2 days ago IIRC
[08:32] <pitti> yay, new gamin
[08:33] <Amaranth> yeah, i'm about to start beating it to death :P
[08:33] <Amaranth> (testing it)
[09:41] <JaneW> hi all, I need to respond to an e-mail enquiry... will Breezy have twinview in xorg enabled?
[09:44] <daniels> JaneW: no.  we do not ship the nvidia binary driver by default, and will never do so.
[09:44] <daniels> JaneW: as to the general question of dual-head ... i guess breezy+1 or whenever someone gets time to do XorgAutoconfiguration.
[09:45] <highvoltage> daniels: unless the license changes, of course ;)
[09:45] <Treenaks> highvoltage: i.e. never
[09:45] <highvoltage> Treenaks: good point.
[09:45] <bob2> GNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNR
[09:46] <bob2> kernel update + suspend to disk = losing all state with no warning
[09:46] <Lathiat> bob2: thats why you should use suspend2
[09:46] <daniels> bob2: yeah, that really shits me off
[09:46] <Lathiat> if you try to boot an image with the wrong kernel it gives you a chance to back out
[09:46] <daniels> bob2: i'd love a little thing that blocked on input saying 'if you want to get back to your old session, reboot onw'
[09:47] <daniels> 'else press enter'
[09:47] <daniels> Treenaks: s/never/no time soon/
[09:47] <Burgundavia> daniels, where is status of the completely free ati drivers with 3d for newer cards?
[09:47] <Burgundavia> daniels, 9600 and similar series
[09:48] <daniels> Burgundavia: breezy+1
[09:48] <daniels> Burgundavia: 'generally works great' for agp, 'utterly non-functional' for pcie
[09:48] <bob2> daniels: yeah
[09:48] <Burgundavia> so they are making good progress on that?
[09:48] <bob2> Lathiat: except then I have to deal with crackaddled Frozen Bubble splash screens
[09:48] <Lathiat> bob2: eh?
[09:48] <Burgundavia> daniels, not asking for breezy, just didn't get a good sense from the various pages and lists I visited
[09:49] <daniels> Burgundavia: yeah
[09:49] <bob2> maybe that's just what neal has on his laptop
[09:49] <bob2> but having the kernel throw images at me scares me
[09:49] <bob2> er, nigel
[09:49] <\sh> morning
[09:49] <Lathiat> yeh you dont need that
[09:49] <Lathiat> its an optional feature, obviously
[09:49] <Lathiat> the default mode is a text mode
[09:49] <Lathiat> runs a little progressbar and tells you what its doing
[09:50] <Lathiat> i havent used it in ages tho
[09:50] <Lathiat> suspend to ram does the trick
[09:50] <JaneW> daniels: thanks. The guys says he is looking for something that  'when I plug a projector into my laptop it will configure to display my lcd screen on the projector at the best resolution the projector will handle.  Windows currently does that and it really needs to be in ubuntu.'
[09:51] <Lathiat> last time i used it was on my 266mhz gateway laptop
[09:52] <daniels> JaneW: breezy+1 super-optimistically.  breezy+2 possibly.  breezy+3 probably.  breezy+4 maybe.  it's a frigging hard problem space.
[09:52] <daniels> JaneW: one of the things I'd love to spend development time on, but I don't have any
[09:52] <Lathiat> yeh that sounds nasty
[09:53] <JaneW> daniels: ok thanks and understood ;)
[09:53] <Lathiat> theres like 4 separate problems that jump into my head off the bat
[09:54] <daniels> a) initial detection of devices, b) binding them to the same driver, c) reconfiguring on the fly, d) having the driver detect plug events, e) if doing xinerama, how to deal with accel etc; if doing mergedfb, how to set independent modes
[09:55] <Lathiat> do projectors reliably provide their maximum resolution with the autodetection magic?
[09:55] <daniels> sure, but again, difficult problem space
[09:55] <daniels> it's not viable to detect stuff like that with vbe, since you only get access to the first head
[09:56] <Lathiat> ah, right
[09:56] <daniels> so basically you have to split every driver into, say, libi810 and i810_drv, and be able to load libi810 from userspace and poke deeply into the card configuration
[09:56] <daniels> which sucks
[09:56] <Lathiat> so is that a implementation limitation as opposed to a hardware limitation?
[09:56] <daniels> correct
[09:56] <daniels> all our problems are implementation limitations
[09:56] <Lathiat> right
[09:57] <Lathiat> and sucky drivers
[09:57] <Lathiat> which, i guess is an implementation limitation. :)
[09:57] <daniels> while it's *better* than v3 in every respect, the xfree86 v4 architecture still sucks at multiple outputs
[09:57] <Burgundavia> daniels, I cannot seem to find the page that I saw regarding those drivers. Where would I find them again?
[09:58] <daniels> Burgundavia: r300.sf.net
[09:58] <Lathiat> is there still a way to bind random graphics cards together "properly" like twinview style / what windows does ?
[09:58] <Lathiat> s/still//
[09:58] <Burgundavia> daniels, thanks
[09:58] <bob2> Lathiat: isn't that just xinerama
[09:58] <bob2> ?
[09:58] <Lathiat> bob2: where you can drag windows between both screens?
[09:58] <bob2> also, gnome-update thing is nifty with the terminal widget
[09:58] <daniels> Lathiat: xinerama lets you do that, dude
[09:59] <bob2> Lathiat: X has been able to do that since like 2001
[09:59] <Lathiat> daniels: really? hrm
[09:59] <daniels> the problem with xinerama is that the one screen -> one device assumption is hardcoded pretty solidly into X
[09:59] <Lathiat> whatever i did the 1 time it ried it must have not been using that
[09:59] <daniels> so you don't get 3D acceleration on both heads, etc
[09:59] <Lathiat> right
[09:59] <daniels> mergedfb/twinview solve this by cheating it into one device for two screens
[09:59] <Lathiat> or overlays
[09:59] <Lathiat> heh yeh
[09:59] <daniels> Lathiat: just acceleration in general
[09:59] <Treenaks> daniels: but people _are_ working on a new/better system right?
[09:59] <daniels> the former being for radeon/sis, the latter being for nv
[09:59] <daniels> Treenaks: slowly, yes
[10:00] <daniels> Treenaks: all the EGL work is shoving us in a far more sensible direction
[10:00] <Lathiat> twinview has an annoying bug on my laptop
[10:00] <Lathiat> i cant make my internal LCD the primary display no matter how hard i try
[10:00] <Treenaks> EGL? is that like XGL?
[10:00] <daniels> Lathiat: see me not care :P
[10:00] <Lathiat> daniels: heh
[10:00] <Lathiat> i can do a two-screen setup thing, but i couldnt move things between windows, didnt realise you could not have that happen, cus i didnt care much at the time
[10:01] <daniels> Treenaks: egl is embedded gl, which is a subset of the GL API.  mesa are implementing EGL, plus extensions to deal with mode-setting, et al.
[10:01] <Treenaks> daniels: yay for http://wiki.x.org/wiki/XorgGlossary :)
[10:02] <daniels> Treenaks: http://people.freedesktop.org/~ajax/dri-explanation.txt is also brilliant
[10:02] <Treenaks> ooh nice
[10:05] <craig> Hey
[10:05] <seb128> elmo: gdesklets-data gperiodic gnome-build (experimental) intltool syncs please
[10:06] <Treenaks> daniels: weren't they working on some XAA-replacement as well?
[10:06] <Treenaks> ah EXA
[10:07] <craig> How do i install smb iam new to linux..Thank You in advance:)
[10:07] <Burgundavia> daniels, is that r300 stuff in breezy?
[10:07] <Burgundavia> craig, that is a question for #ubuntu
[10:07] <craig> yes
[10:08] <daniels> Burgundavia: no
[10:08] <craig> if iam in the wrong place 2 ask questions just say so and i will leave:)
[10:09] <bob2> this channel is for development discussion; try #ubunut
[10:09] <bob2> er, #ubuntu
[10:10] <craig> ok thank you 
[10:12] <Burgundavia> daniels, thanks
[10:13] <JaneW> does anyone know anything about dist-upgrade? I have another enquiry and am not too certain about what the guy is going on about...
[10:13] <mvo> JaneW: please forward it to me (or /msg me)
[10:13] <bob2> can't you just tell these people to email ubuntu-users?
[10:13] <JaneW> mvo: ok I'll fwd to you, thanks
[10:15] <JaneW> bob2: yes I guesss I could, but they want to feel special ;P
[10:15] <Lathiat> ooh gamin update
[10:15] <Lathiat> wonder if it works
[10:18] <mvo> elmo: can you please sync synaptic from debian/unstable (ok with Kamion, bugfixes only)
[10:21] <niran> mvo, are all your nifty api additions to python-apt going to be in breezy?
[10:28] <mvo> niran: yes, I'll work on it today. unfortunately the api will change a bit to make it conform to PEP08 (python style guides). but I'll let you know about that (and provide a patch)
[10:30] <niran> mvo, ok, cool
[11:01] <JaneW> hi all, I have added another table to the BreezyGoals page, called deferred. If your goal is being deferred (can't be finished in time for Breezy) - please move it to this table, so that we can keep track of it.
[11:01] <jsgotangco> *stress*
[11:02] <JaneW> If your goal is mostly complete, but some part of it have been, or are to be deferred, please lists these portions on the deferred table... this will allow goals that are as finishsed as they are going to be to be listed as complete, while still keeping track of additional work that needs to be picked up on later.
[11:02] <JaneW> jsgotangco: :P
[11:03] <daniels> is there a column for 'won't happen until someone gets assigned a decent amount of time to work on it [which won't happen]  or it gets bountied'?
[11:04] <JaneW> daniels, sure, put it in the deferred table and make a note about it, and suggest it gets bounties etc, a lot of these deferred items are exactly because there hasn't been enough time to complete them - or on some cases even start them.
[11:04] <daniels> JaneW: this is the 'even start them' one
[11:04] <JaneW> daniels: wich one?
[11:05] <JaneW> s/wich/which
[11:05] <seb128> daniels: VideoRoadmap ? :)
[11:05] <daniels> FUCK
[11:05] <daniels> *ahem*
[11:06] <daniels> JaneW: this wiki is a goddamn blast from hell.  keeps killing firefox.
[11:06] <daniels> seb128: pick one of 'working X' or 'xine'
[11:06] <daniels> seb128: i.e. not this week, probably not next week
[11:06] <daniels> will have to sneak it in pretty close to feature freeze
[11:07] <daniels> JaneW: VideoRoadmap is 'daniels to do Xine before feature freeze', XorgAuthentication is to be deferred, and probably FasterNetworkedX as well (i'm just overseeing that and smacking Tollef if he comes up with a crap solution, not doing anything of value development-wise)
[11:08] <seb128> daniels: no problem for me, keep working on xorg, that's just to know what to do with the wiki
[11:08] <seb128> so JaneW stop the pressure :p
[11:08] <daniels> seb128: cool
[11:08] <daniels> seb128: yeah, I'd just edited that before firefox came crashing down (quite literally)
[11:08] <Lathiat> whats needed for video stuff?
[11:09] <seb128> the wiki is public
[11:09] <seb128> read the spec?
[11:09] <doko> daniels: surely that's an xorg bug well hidden in libxkb or somewhere else ;-P
[11:09] <seb128> that's VideoRoadmap
[11:09] <daniels> doko: it's a firefox bug -> seb's problem
[11:09] <daniels> he's hindering my productivity
[11:10] <seb128> daniels: use epiphany-browser ? :)
[11:10] <seb128> hum
[11:11] <daniels> seb128: heh.  you've got me there.
[11:11] <doko> lol, daniels is complaining about _that_ ? :-)
[11:11] <seb128> do we have a reason to keep automake-1.4 with the higest alternative?
[11:11] <sivang> seb128: would you say it'd be wise to put the bonnobo ui apps helper function to add ui elements in another lib? jamesh suggested that because of the dependencies this may bring in current lib, ofcourse for the python scripts it will depend on the same "binary" 
[11:12] <seb128> sivang: yeah, probably
[11:12] <Kamion> infinity: huh, libd-i uses -gstabs? boggle. Is -ggdb safe as a replacement?
[11:13] <sivang> seb128: bonnobo brings in ORBit, libgnome, libbonobo, gnome-vfs, etc
[11:13] <sivang> seb128: k
[11:13] <sivang> seb128: thx
[11:13] <doko> seb128: I stumbled about that prio as well. but maybe you break now more things than you fix, maybe just use a build-conflict
[11:14] <seb128> doko: that's not a build issue, that user getting both installed, running ./autogen.sh for GNOME stuff or using anjuta and getting errors
[11:14] <daniels> seb128: 1.6 or 1.7 would be *far* more sensible.  of course, the easiest solution is to just not have 1.4 installed at all.
[11:14] <seb128> cf https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13146
[11:15] <seb128> sivang: yeah, I know what bobono pulls
[11:15] <seb128> daniels: any reason to not prefer 1.9?
[11:15] <daniels> seb128: yes, because it breaks shit horribly
[11:15] <doko> Kamion: I don't know of any restrictions, but maybe the size of the debugging info is bigger with -ggdb
[11:15] <daniels> seb128: i sat down a month or two ago with another of the X guys, and we worked out that 1.6 was the sweet spot, though sort of slowly moving to 1.7
[11:15] <Kamion> it's going to be stripped anyway, it's just for in-tree debugging
[11:15] <daniels> seb128: so we try to support 1.6 through 1.8 or maybe 1.9
[11:16] <daniels> seb128: but SO MUCH STUFF is backwards-incompatible
[11:16] <daniels> seb128: it's like automake people are just bored, and really bitter
[11:16] <seb128> bah
[11:16] <daniels> 'so, what's the plan for 1.10?'
[11:16] <daniels> 'LET'S BREAK SHIT.  I HATE MY EX-WIFE AND THE WORLD IN GENERAL.'
[11:16] <seb128> so better to keep 1.4 for the moment so
[11:16] <daniels> seb128: 1.6 or 1.7 would be best
[11:16] <daniels> seb128: better to throw 1.4 away and forget it existed
[11:16] <daniels> with such relics of the past as xfree86
[11:16] <seb128> k
[11:17] <seb128> I'll ping mdz about this when he's around
[11:17] <daniels> i think eric dorland or whoever the automake maintainer is in debian decided to throw away 1.4 just recently
[11:18] <seb128> sivang: I'm wondering if that's worth doing a library instead of patching 4-5 apps using bonobo for menus
[11:18] <siretart> daniels: that was about automake 1.5, iirc. automake 1.4 is too widly used for dropping yet
[11:19] <daniels> siretart: not that many people still use 1.4, at all
[11:19] <siretart> more than 1.5
[11:19] <daniels> sure
[11:19] <daniels> but no-one uses 1.5 at all
[11:19] <JaneW> daniels: that's not the wiki, it's your flash extension :)
[11:19] <seb128> daniels: #228604 is about this
[11:20] <daniels> JaneW: don't have flash installed
[11:20] <JaneW> ok, well then the wiki sucks ....
[11:20] <daniels> JaneW: right
[11:20] <sivang> seb128: we have also the applets...and the translations.. whenever soething changes it will cause great work per app
[11:20] <sivang> seb128: or even if launchpad url changes..
[11:20] <JaneW> seb128: it's not me making the pressure, it;s the deadline, and sides I am trying to find a way to EASE it...
[11:21] <seb128> JaneW: I'm pretty sure everybody knows about the different freezes :)
[11:21] <bob2> daniels: just be glad it's not zwiki
[11:22] <bob2> daniels: or it'd be your firefox and the app server that crashed
[11:22] <seb128> doko: cairo/glitz uploaded
[11:22] <doko> seb128: Did notice. thanks!
[11:23] <seb128> np
[11:23] <JaneW> daniels: if you are having wiki problesm mail me with updates - I am happy to apply them.
[11:23] <daniels> bob2: lpwiki!
[11:23] <daniels> JaneW: see the line 16min ago
[11:23] <JaneW> seb128: wtf is that meant to me?
[11:23] <JaneW> s/me/mean
[11:24] <daniels> JaneW: upstream version freeze, feature freeze, code freeze, preview freeze, etc
[11:24] <JaneW> daniels: VideoRoadmap, ok will do.
[11:24] <JaneW> daniels: yes... so?
[11:24] <daniels> JaneW: and the FasterNetworkedX stuff
[11:24] <daniels> JaneW: er, was just relaying what seb said
[11:24] <JaneW> daniles: ok
[11:24] <seb128> JaneW: hum, cool, I was not agressing you or something. 
[11:24] <JaneW> seb128: yes but I don;t know what seb128 is implying...
[11:24] <Amaranth> seb128: glade was doing a bad thing setting up bonobo docks for my menus? :)
[11:25] <JaneW> seb128: ask highvoltage I am pretty agrro atm ;)
[11:25] <daniels> http://swik.net/
[11:25] <sivang> Amaranth: your doing Smeg ?
[11:25] <seb128> JaneW: I just say than I'm not sure than pushing people all the time will make thing changing faster, if people don't update stuff that's probably because they are busy with other stuff (like daniels with xorg)
[11:25] <Amaranth> sivang: ?
[11:26] <sivang> Amaranth: sorry, disregard
[11:26] <JaneW> seb128: not to flog a dead horse, but I am trying to get the BreezyGoal tables organised for mdz before next friday, he is concerned that everyhting looks unfinished while in a lot of cases the goal is basically finished, but it;s been agreed to defer some parts of the spec.
[11:27] <seb128> right
[11:27] <JaneW> seb128: I am not pushing people, I am asking them to let me know if anything is not going to be finished in time for Breezy so that I can keep a list of it, and not let it get lost.
[11:28] <pef> hello
[11:28] <Kamion> for breezy+1 we need to seriously think about triaging the results of brainstorming before using the entire output of a brainstorming session as inputs to (a) max out the conference schedule as hard as possible (b) max out the development schedule as hard as possible
[11:29] <Kamion> if that makes sense
[11:29] <daniels> also one thing that would make more sense is not budgeting everyone's entire time towards stuff that seemed like a good idea in april
[11:29] <ogra> Kamion, it does...
[11:29] <daniels> six months is a hell of a long time, and many more urgent/worthwhile things may come up itmt
[11:30] <daniels> (and not just triaging, some of them *cough*LaptopPowerManagementorwhatever*cough* need quality filtering also, and they need to be written up beforehand to avoid 'so, what's this all about then?' 'you tell me' '...'-type sessions)
[11:30] <bob2> proposers should come to the session, too
[11:31] <bob2> or at least very strictly specify what they thing the spec should implement
[11:31] <daniels> yes
[11:31] <bob2> having to guess what someone wants from a short description is highly stressful
[11:31] <sivang> err, lunch
[11:38] <JaneW> Kmaion: I second that
[11:38] <JaneW> Kamion even
[11:39] <JaneW> we are looking at ways to make the process work much better next time.
[11:39] <Kamion> great
[11:41] <bob2> making room for oxford-style meetings would be cool, too
[11:42] <ogra> we should also make clear to the feature requesters that we have *not* 6 months for development...
[11:42] <doko> Riddell: ping
[11:43] <Treenaks> ogra: but like 4-ish?
[11:43] <\sh> will there be another ubuntu conf for breezy +1?
[11:43] <Kamion> yes
[11:43] <Riddell> doko: hi
[11:43] <ogra> Treenaks, yup
[11:43] <\sh> Kamion: the place is known?
[11:43] <Kamion> no
[11:44] <ogra> Treenaks, or even 3
[11:44] <Kamion> (not to me, anyway)
[11:44] <Treenaks> \sh: *points at JaneW*
[11:45] <Lathiat> its the obvious place!
[11:45] <Kamion> I doubt it will be the same country twice in a row
[11:46] <Lathiat> yeh well i was being stupid anyway :)
[11:46] <Amaranth> how do i kill gnome-panel and make it stay dead so i can start it in gdb?
[11:46] <doko> Riddell, \sh: I did create a wiki page CxxLibraryResync to track the status of C++ libs compared to unstable. Please could you update this (when the KDE stuff starts to float to unstable)
[11:46] <Lathiat> Amaranth: you dont? :)
[11:46] <Amaranth> Lathiat: haha
[11:47] <Amaranth> seb128: latest gnome-panel upgrade makes the panel crash after editing menus with smeg
[11:47] <ajmitch> doko: what is suggested depends for wxpython  now?
[11:47] <Lathiat> man i have like 7 lines in my tray
[11:47] <Lathiat> whats with that
[11:47] <Treenaks> Amaranth: does smeg update the desktop files atomically?
[11:48] <Amaranth> err, what?
[11:48] <bob2> Lathiat: better snort it before the cops come!
[11:48] <Treenaks> Amaranth: do you do "open, write, close, rename" or "open, write close
[11:48] <Amaranth> that second one
[11:48] <Treenaks> Amaranth: you should probably create a temp file somewhere, and move that to the right place when you're done writing
[11:49] <Amaranth> Treenaks: thats not why it dies
[11:49] <Treenaks> Amaranth: so the menu stuff never sees a partially-written file
[11:49] <Amaranth> Treenaks: that's not it, it's monitoring closes
[11:49] <Riddell> doko: ok, will do
[11:50] <doko> ajmitch: good question. do you need a specific version, i.e. 2.4 or 2.6?
[11:50] <Amaranth> Treenaks: and it dies when i remove ~/.local/share/applications/ so it's something else
[11:50] <Treenaks> Amaranth: ok :) just checking possible causes :)
[11:51] <bob2> winkle: 29
[11:51] <bob2> hrm
[11:51] <ajmitch> doko: 2.4 for my package at the moment, so I put libwxgtk2.4-1-python in 
[11:51] <ajmitch> but there are a number of packages on the unmet deps list for me to work through
[11:53] <doko> ajmitch: yes, maybe I should add a provides: python-wxgtk2.4, and python-wxgtk2.6
[11:56] <pitti> hi
[11:56] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[11:57] <Amaranth> now this is odd
[11:57] <Amaranth> it went from crashing to just ignoring me
[11:58] <Amaranth> yay it works
[11:59] <Amaranth> d'oh
[11:59] <seb128__> what ?
[11:59] <Amaranth> My menus updated. Once. :/
[12:00] <Lathiat> gnome panel is useless at updating things
[12:00] <Lathiat> i think its gamins fault
[12:00] <Amaranth> no, seb128 just uploaded a new gnome-menus that almost fixed it
[12:00] <Lathiat> ahh
[12:01] <seb128__> "almost"?
[12:01] <Amaranth> like i said, it worked once
[12:01] <Amaranth> the first time i edited something with smeg the menus updated
[12:01] <Amaranth> i closed smeg, reopened it, and tried again, nothing
[12:01] <JaneW> \sh?
[12:02] <JaneW> how many things can go wrong!?
[12:03] <janimo> Janew, whistle: always look on the bright side of life :)
[12:03] <Amaranth> seb128__: For the first time ever my gamin debug log shows the gnome_vfs_monitor_add() stuff getting through from gnome-menus, i guess that's a good thing
[12:04] <seb128> cool
[12:04] <seb128> gamin 0.1.3 is supposed to fix some of the previous b0rkage
[12:04] <seb128> and new gnome-menus is built with gamin now
[12:04] <seb128> so using both should kind of work
[12:04] <daniels> JaneW: eh, you could get home one night and discover that you were actually moving out that night
[12:04] <Amaranth> total rewrite of the inotify backend just hit CVS :)
[12:05] <JaneW> daniels: that happened to you?
[12:05] <seb128> Amaranth: when?
[12:05] <daniels> JaneW: yeah.  moving the rest of the bits tonight, my bed arrives tomorrow.
[12:05] <seb128> Amaranth: 0.1.3 is from yesterday
[12:05] <JaneW> ;)
[12:05] <Amaranth> supposedly a couple hours ago
[12:06] <Amaranth> it doesn't use the polling backend anymore
[12:06] <seb128> Amaranth: after 0.1.3?
[12:06] <Amaranth> yeah
[12:07] <JaneW> just got oven repair guy in who tells me we need to break out a piece of the wll to fix it! wtf!
[12:07] <JaneW> etc
[12:07] <JaneW> for the rocord the POOL is broken not poo ;))
[12:07] <Amaranth> shit, another crash
[12:07] <Amaranth> seb128: what dbg packages should i get to make this backtrace useful?
[12:08] <shackan> hi
[12:08] <seb128> Amaranth: backtrace of what app?
[12:09] <Amaranth> gnome-panel
[12:09] <Amaranth> or whatever the menus run as
[12:09] <shackan> gnome is driving me nuts
[12:09] <Amaranth> right now it just gives me http://rafb.net/paste/results/HDGcMh46.html which seems less than useless
[12:10] <shackan> apt-get upgrade refuses to install updated versions for x and gnome, why ?
[12:10] <bob2> you know "upgrade" doesn't take any arguments, right?
[12:10] <seb128> Amaranth: gnome-panel-dbg .. do you want to push it upstream? I get it too, so if you don't I'll bother them with it :p
[12:10] <Amaranth> shackan: because you need to install/remove extra things to install them
[12:11] <Amaranth> seb128: i'll let you do it :)
[12:11] <seb128> k
[12:11] <shackan> bob2, I'm not *that* noob
[12:11] <crispin> is the new gnome 2.12 menu editor in breezy ? and if so what package is it in ?
[12:11] <seb128> crispin: gmenu-simpler-editor from gnome-menus and it sucks
[12:11] <Amaranth> :)
[12:11] <seb128> crispin: try smeg
[12:12] <Amaranth> oh, that reminds me
[12:12] <Amaranth> smeg is in gnome cvs now
[12:12] <crispin> seb128: heh, ok :-)
[12:12] <shackan> it just says "the following packages have been kept to the current version"
[12:12] <seb128> yeah, I've noticed on #commits
[12:12] <shackan> with a long list of gnome and x stuff (among others)
[12:13] <Amaranth> shackan: if you don't understand how to upgrade you should probably stick to hoary for now
[12:13] <shackan> I'd love to
[12:13] <crispin> seb128: should it be in the menu hierarchy somewhere ? (I can't find it)
[12:13] <shackan> but I need breezy for a project I'm developing right now
[12:13] <Amaranth> crispin: no, right click on a menu entry and it comes up
[12:14] <Amaranth> which is foreshadowing how bad it is :)
[12:14] <Amaranth> shackan: Do you need X and etc for this project?
[12:14] <crispin> Amaranth: ahh, I was right clicking on the actual menu entry, not the top-level "Applications" entry
[12:14] <seb128> crispin: right click on the panel menus
[12:14] <Amaranth> oh, you have to click on the panel?
[12:14] <Amaranth> that's lame
[12:15] <shackan> well, no, I need HAL and DBus, but I need somewhere to write my code in, you know.. so I also need gnome
[12:15] <seb128> crispin: basically you can mask/show a menu entry that's all, sucker
[12:15] <Amaranth> if you need X to work i'd wait for the next colony cd
[12:15] <crispin> oh dear, I installed smeg, and gnome-panel crashed :-)
[12:15] <Amaranth> crispin: yep, this is called a gnome-panel bug :)
[12:15] <crispin> at least that means gamin notified it :-D
[12:15] <seb128> crispin: gnome-panel seems to crash on menu updated yeah
[12:16] <seb128> updates
[12:16] <shackan> probably colony 3 will be out after my deadline is over.. grr, thaks anyway
[12:17] <shackan> *thanks
[12:17] <Amaranth> deadline?
[12:17] <shackan> right, project have deadlines, indeed... :)
[12:17] <shackan> *projects
[12:18] <Amaranth> shackan: dist-upgrade
[12:18] <Amaranth> shackan: from there you're on your own
[12:18] <crispin> smeg only seems to update the actual menus when you quit it, but it is better :-)
[12:19] <Amaranth> crispin: in 0.8 it'll do it when you click the 'Save' button :)
[12:19] <crispin> IMO it should do it immediately, but at least thats a start
[12:20] <Amaranth> crispin: the GNOME folks seem to agree with you but i hate instant apply
[12:20] <seb128> why?
[12:20] <Amaranth> plus it'd probably double the ammount of code i have implementing it sanely
[12:20] <Amaranth> seb128: *shrug*
[12:21] <Amaranth> i can't put it into words at 5:30am :)
[12:21] <seb128> ah ah
[12:22] <Amaranth> btw, pyxdg is going to need a bunch of patches to make it behave properly
[12:22] <doko> ajmitch: you should depend on python-wx2.4, or python-wx2.6
[12:24] <Mez> mvo: ping
[12:24] <Kamion> elmo: please sync libdebian-installer 0.32 from Debian incoming
[12:24] <mvo> Mez: pong
[12:24] <Kamion> fixes that ia64 build failure
[12:24] <Mez> mvo: gksu doesnt seem to include gksudo anymore
[12:25] <mvo> Mez: what version?
[12:25] <Mez> mvo: whatever versions in breezy atm...
[12:25] <Mez> mvo: I'm getting errors that it doesnt exist
[12:26] <Mez> mvo: that is, assuming it's meant to be in the gksu package
[12:26] <mvo> Mez: I have it here (1.3.0-1ubuntu2). what does "dpkg -L gksu" say?
[12:26] <Mez> dpkg -L gksu
[12:27] <Mez> says it's not insalled
[12:27] <Mez> weird
[12:27] <Mez> synaptic says it is
[12:27] <Mez> o_O
[12:27] <Mez> apt-get says it isnt
[12:27] <Mez> sorry for wasting your time mvo
[12:27] <Mez> weird greying out of the screen
[12:29] <mvo> Mez: synaptic did show a package as installed that wasn't? that sounds odd 
[12:42] <niran> is there a simple way to get baz to add all the files in a directory that aren't already added?
[12:42] <niran> i've just been scripting it to get it to add each file at a time to get past the errors
[12:42] <niran> ad it feels dirty.
[12:49] <sivang> seb128: when you have time, please refresh the sources for the the helper lib, we've modified it to point at launchpad.net instead of launchpad.ubuntu.com, thanks
[12:52] <seb128> could you have the discussion about that on this chan? thanks
[12:53] <seb128> jamesh: around?
[12:53] <jamesh> seb128: yeah
[12:53] <sivang> seb128: ah that was just less then one line change, that's all
[12:53] <sivang> seb128: but yes, ofcourse :)
[12:54] <seb128> jamesh: could you push mdz's patch for labels (you were Cc:ed on the mail) or give me a commit right on the baz archive so I can do it?
[12:55] <seb128> sivang: speaking about all the discussion for lpi, like the bonobo lib, etc
[12:55] <seb128> sivang: there is no point to keep that as private discussion
[12:56] <sivang> seb128: ofcourse, I discussed that here with you, about an hour ago, no?
[12:56] <seb128> you start saying you discussed about it with jamesh
[12:57] <seb128> could you discuss than on this chan rather, so you don't have to ping people to summarize discussions
[12:57] <jamesh> seb128: just reading.  hadn't got round to those emails (I've been catching up after the flight
[12:58] <seb128> jamesh: k, thanks. That's basically a 2 line changes to menu items title/tooltip
[12:58] <jamesh> yeah
[12:59] <jamesh> seb128: I can't easily give you write access to my archive, but you can easily create your own branch
[12:59] <sivang> seb128: k, sorry if we did
[12:59] <seb128> jamesh: and I'm having issues with gnome-games atm. They are setgid games which break the /proc/... opening
[01:00] <sivang> seb128: you're trying to patch them for lpi ? (gnome-games)
[01:00] <seb128> sivang: np, that's just that I'm listed by as leading this spec so I need to know what happens. If you guys discuss stuff without me all the time that's not going to work. Better to discuss here so I'm on phase with is beeing done
[01:01] <seb128> sivang: I've already patched it, it just doesn't work because of the setgid
[01:01] <seb128> s/with is/with what is/
[01:02] <sivang> seb128: ah I see, ok. What about the labels changes? what is it about?
[01:03] <seb128> -    { "LaunchpadAppInfo", NULL, N_("Launchpad Info"),
[01:03] <seb128> +    { "LaunchpadAppInfo", NULL, N_("Get Help..."),
[01:03] <seb128> -    { "LaunchpadAppTranslate", NULL, N_("Translate This Application ..."),
[01:03] <seb128> +    { "LaunchpadAppTranslate", NULL, N_("Translate This Application..."),
[01:03] <jamesh> sivang: decision about the exact text for the labels
[01:04] <sivang> jamesh: ah, then I can create diffs for it and send you for commit, if that's not too much overhead 
[01:04] <jamesh> hmm
[01:04] <seb128> jamesh: k for baz, fine with me :)
[01:04] <sivang> seb128: that's all the changes that are needed?
[01:04] <seb128> yep
[01:04] <jamesh> Steve's mail says the menu item should be "Get Help Online..."
[01:04] <sivang> seb128: k, on my way
[01:04] <seb128> sivang: it doesn't need you
[01:04] <sivang> seb128: ah ok
[01:04] <seb128> sivang: mdz sends a patch
[01:04] <seb128> s/sends/sent/
[01:05] <Kamion> mvo: any thoughts on the download progress thing? is it feasible?
[01:06] <seb128> jamesh: hum, right .. use that probably
[01:07] <mvo> Kamion: I haven't thought about it that much but I think we can do it. it needs to be available from aptitude, right?
[01:07] <Kamion> yeah
[01:08] <sivang> seb128: why are gnome games setgid ?
[01:08] <Kamion> I think the main issue would be determining how much of the progress bar space to use for the download step
[01:08] <Kamion> either you hardcode that in apt, or we have multiple progress bars emitted by apt and have base-config use waypoints to glue them together the way base-installer does with debootstrap's progress indicators
[01:08] <mvo> Kamion: what about two progress bars? one saying "downloading changes" and one "installing stuff"? or is that a stupid idea?
[01:09] <Kamion> mvo: that's absolutely fine, if you can get it into the protocol
[01:09] <Kamion> I think that's better actually, because then base-config can easily be tweaked to use different amounts of a consolidated progress bar for it depending on what works, or to just have two physically separate progress bars
[01:10] <seb128> sivang: to write scores to /var/games
[01:10] <Kamion> it's just a matter of how to clearly distinguish when apt is starting the "installing stuff" stage
[01:11] <mvo> Kamion: ok. what about using the "status" field in the protocol and adding "downloading" as a new status? then the usual description (what package, total percentage, human readable string(?)
[01:11] <jamesh> seb128: probably the best way to solve the problem is to add an API to tell liblaunchpad-integration what the source package name is
[01:11] <jamesh> then it could short circuit some of the lookup it is doing
[01:12] <seb128> yeah
[01:12] <Kamion> mvo: if I can be guaranteed that the last entry in the downloading progress bar is 100 so that I can safely distinguish when the new bar is starting, that's fine ...
[01:12] <sivang> jamesh: what does that mean? :)
[01:13] <seb128> that means having a function to specify the package name
[01:13] <seb128> so it doesn't have to search for it
[01:13] <sivang> seb128: ah
[01:13] <seb128> ie: the gnome-games patch would use this function to specify "gnome-games"
[01:13] <jamesh> sivang: the helper library can deduce the correct URLs based on one of a number of pieces of info
[01:13] <mvo> Kamion: you will know when it switches from "status" to "download" (probably "status" should be renamed to something better as well)
[01:14] <jamesh> s/helper library/helper app/
[01:14] <mvo> Kamion: ups :) the other way around of course
[01:14] <jamesh> the library currently passes the PID, but could be modified to pass the source package name instead (if it knows what that is)
[01:15] <sivang> jamesh: so that measn you'd have to incroporate your python logic into the c library for finding this info?
[01:15] <jamesh> sivang: nope.
[01:15] <Kamion> mvo: ok
[01:15] <jamesh> sivang: add an API like this_is_my_source_package_name("...")
[01:16] <sivang> Kamion: I owe you this from last night, ii  oem-config-locale            0.13ubuntu4
[01:16] <mvo> Kamion: do you have a good idea for something better than "status"; "dpkg" is probably too specific, "installing" misses the point when it comes to removals; "package-manager" does not sounds righ
[01:16] <Kamion> sivang: thanks
[01:18] <sivang> jamesh: so in every patched app I use this API call to specify the source package of the app I'm patching ?
[01:19] <jamesh> sivang: It'd probably be better to make it optional (so that all the existing app patches continue to work)
[01:19] <seb128> sivang: could you focus on the bonobo changes, I'm almost done with the GtkUIManager patches, don't bother with them
[01:19] <jamesh> sivang: just use it where it is actually necessary (e.g. gnome-games)
[01:20] <sivang> jamesh: ok
[01:20] <sivang> seb128: ok
[01:21] <Kamion> mvo: not really
[01:21] <Kamion> mvo: pmstatus?
[01:22] <sivang> seb128: I suggest we update the wiki page with packages that are done
[01:22] <mvo> Kamion: pmstatus sounds better 
[01:24] <seb128> sivang: yeah, I've planned to do so
[01:25] <sivang> seb128: becasue I was going to do epiphany, would be nice to see what you already did in order not to duplicate work
[01:25] <sivang> seb128: either way, I'll concentrate on boonbo now
[01:26] <seb128> sivang: I've uploaded it some days ago
[01:26] <seb128> sivang: and you asked before starting file-roller/gedit I thought you would do the same for other packages
[01:27] <sivang> seb128: no it's ok, I havn't really did anything with it, I will ask you about it next time
[01:31] <seb128> sivang: what is "clock", "fish", etc?
[01:31] <martinhj> I have upgraded gnome-menus to the latest in the breezy repo, but the menu update dosn't work as it should: I get "The Application "gnome-panel" has quit unexpectedly." and have to restart the menu application.. When the new menu appears I also get a "I've detected a panel already running,
[01:31] <martinhj> and will now exit." error message
[01:31] <martinhj> is this common and known error?
[01:32] <seb128> yep
[01:32] <seb128> it crashes on update
[01:32] <martinhj> ok
[01:32] <seb128> gnome-session-remove gnome-panel
[01:32] <seb128> gnome-panel
[01:32] <seb128> that should restart it
[01:34] <martinhj> yeah, but it works anyway... Only with the "detected a panel already running"-error that just reappears if I hit OK
[01:34] <martinhj> but anyway, that steps you described got rid of it
[01:35] <marcin> hi all
[01:35] <marcin> I got a question 
[01:36] <marcin> I would like to create a package for ubuntu and I wonder what is a preferred method
[01:36] <azeem> cdbs
[01:36] <marcin> should I follow maint-guide and use simple scripts in rules file
[01:36] <sivang> seb128: applets that I found in the desktop seed
[01:37] <marcin> or maybe I should use cdbs scripts?
[01:37] <marcin> azeem: so cdbs?
[01:39] <seb128> sivang: fish is an universe package ...
[01:39] <seb128> marcin: depending on what you do, for GNOME we use cdbs by example :)
[01:39] <seb128> sivang: BTW I've updated the wiki list
[01:40] <azeem> marcin: I suggest you look at a couple of preexisting packages which mutually the same level of complexity and see how they do things
[01:40] <mvo> Kamion: what kind of information should we present to the user? "Downloading %li of %li", "Downloading %li of %li (%s time remaining)"; or rather show the download rate? all of it?
[01:41] <azeem> eh, s/mutually/roughly/ or something
[01:43] <sivang> seb128: fish in universe is a scriping language, AFAICT
[01:44] <seb128> sivang: that's my point, as said some time ago this is a list of sources packages
[01:44] <marcin> well I plan to package something 'overcomplicated' - some packages for emacs
[01:44] <seb128> sivang: ie: I've listed "gnome-games", not the pile of games, same for gnome-utils and the pile of utils 
[01:45] <sivang> seb128: I'm trying to find the source package for the fish applet (the one that just takes cpu time :) but cant ..:-/
[01:46] <sivang> seb128: it may be part of gnome-applets
[01:47] <seb128> gnome-panel: /usr/lib/gnome-panel/fish-applet-2
[01:47] <Kamion> mvo: I'd skip the time remaining bit, and just have "Downloading <package>" and the percentage of total estimated download time in the percentage field
[01:47] <Kamion> actually, no, not the percentage of total estimated download time, that might decrease
[01:48] <Kamion> just the percentage of total bytes downloaded
[01:48] <sivang> seb128: ok, so shall I list this as "gnome-panel" ?
[01:48] <Kamion> hmm, I suppose progress bars often include time remaining indicators
[01:48] <Kamion> so maybe "Downloading <package> (%s time remaining)"?
[01:49] <seb128> sivang: yeah, you can make a list of what need to be patched like "gnome-panel (fish)" ... 
[01:50] <sivang> seb128: ok
[01:51] <mvo> Kamion: "Downloaded %i of %i (%s time remaining)"? I can't attach a package name because it may download more than one pkg in parallel.
[01:51] <Kamion> oh, ok
[01:51] <Kamion> yeah, that's fine then
[01:55] <sivang> Kamion: OEM_CONFIG_DEBUG=1 doesn't seem to produce more then what I have already sent you, though
[02:04] <ogra> Edubuntu Meeting starting in #ubuntu-meeting
[02:04] <ogra> in case someone is interested
[02:11] <sivang> seb128: I'm trying to find the wanda fish just to glance at its bonnobo code, but can't find it int hte source pkg gnome-panle
[02:11] <seb128> sivang: gnome-panel-2.11.90/applets/fish/
[02:11] <seb128> pitti: around?
[02:13] <seb128> pitti: gst should be alsa by default?
[02:16] <martinhj> is it any plans to move cdrdao in to main from universe and make nautilus depend on it? Copy disc for Audio cd-s depends on it.. "File image creation failed Could not run sub process: Failed to execute child process "cdrdao" (No such file or directory)."
[02:16] <seb128> please open a bugzilla about this on n-c-b
[02:16] <sivang> seb128: doh, I'm braindead
[02:17] <jamesh> seb128: would the new autoaudiosink be a better choice?
[02:17] <martinhj> n-c-b?
[02:17] <mvo> Kamion: it's in michael.vogt@ubuntu.com--2005/apt--progress-reporting--0 (see README.progress-reporting for the format). I tested it lightly with aptitude, it should work
[02:17] <mvo> (the download progress reporting that is)
[02:18] <seb128> jamesh: BBB recommends to not use it with the current version ... I'll ping him again on next one
[02:18] <jamesh> martinhj: the bug would be that the nautilus-cd-burner package doesn't depend on cdrdao when it should
[02:20] <pitti> seb128: no, gst should default to esd
[02:20] <seb128> pitti: the wiki is not clear
[02:21] <seb128> " done: dmix by default, gstreamer->alsa"
[02:21] <seb128> you put this description !?
[02:21] <pitti> seb128: it was an option, but dmix is not mature enough to actually do that
[02:21] <Kamion> mvo: you clear APT::Keep-Fds entirely in dpkgpm.cc - doesn't that break people who're trying to set APT::Keep-Fds on the command line?
[02:22] <seb128> pitti: k, that's what I thought, but since the goal page states other way ...
[02:22] <janimo> Kamion is there an uptodate baz branch of apt? the ones on arch.ubuntu.com do seem dates
[02:22] <janimo> err,dated
[02:23] <Kamion> janimo: nothing to do with me
[02:23] <mvo> Kamion: IIRC I clear it after the dpkg run. but it still is probably wrong (/me checks again)
[02:24] <Kamion> janimo: http://people.debian.org/~mdz/arch/apt@packages.debian.org/ is upstream
[02:24] <Kamion> and in fact has the Ubuntu branch too
[02:25] <Kamion> mvo: right, seems to me that will break debconf passthrough
[02:25] <mvo> Kamion: yes, I'll fix it now
[02:25] <Kamion> thanks
[02:33] <CarlFK> hi Kamion - just sending you "baseconfig from stuck breezy install" 
[02:35] <martinhj> seb128: Now the cdrdao-bug is filed, but I could not change the "Target Milestone" to "Ubuntu 5.10"
[02:35] <seb128> milestone is not something for users
[02:35] <seb128> that's up to the maintainer to decide when he wants to fix an issue
[02:36] <seb128> thanks for the bug
[02:37] <martinhj> no problem at all, it is the least I could do
[02:39] <Kamion> CarlFK: hmm, the menu-mapping file looks fine. Could you also send /var/log/base-config.log?
[02:43] <CarlFK> comming up
[02:44] <Kamion> mvo: hooray, works great
[02:46] <mvo> now I only need to fix this "$$"*/($ fd problem you just mentioned. it turns out to be harder than expected
[02:49] <Kamion> I need a new debconf to make the progress bar UI not *totally* suck, but apart from that ...
[02:53] <Kamion> mvo: is it a problem with deleting items from configuration lists?
[02:53] <mvo> Kamion: yes, libapt seems to not support it at all
[02:54] <Kamion> mvo: Configuration has a copy constructor - maybe you could back up _config and then restore it, or something
[02:54] <Kamion> or back up the APT::Keep-Fds tree, I guess
[02:55] <Kamion> except libapt doesn't seem to support reinserting subtrees either, ugh
[02:56] <Kamion> maybe you could Clear() it and then go through the backup subtree reinserting all the elements ...
[02:56] <mvo> Kamion: I'm considering to just add "Clear(List, value)" to support removing certain values from lists
[02:57] <CarlFK> Kamion - http://thwackugh.personnelware.com/carl/temp/base-config.log 
[02:58] <CarlFK> I think I see "my" problem
[02:58] <CarlFK> wait... wget not found?
[02:59] <Kamion> wget is only there after the package selection step runs successfully; it's not part of the base system
[02:59] <Kamion> which implies pkgsel fell over, which implies the image is just hosed *shrug*
[02:59] <CarlFK> is that "new"?
[02:59] <Kamion> no
[02:59] <Kamion> well, not very. breezy.
[02:59] <CarlFK> ah
[02:59] <Kamion> yesterday's image had broken aptitude/libsigc++ depends, I think
[03:00] <Kamion> which would've broken pkgsel, so it may've been that
[03:00] <Kamion> should be fixed today
[03:00] <Kamion> there's no output from pkgsel in your log at all ...
[03:05] <luis_> sweet.
[03:05] <luis_> my dep problems after a hoary->breezy upgrade are so bad that they crashed synaptic. :)
[03:11] <[linesca] > jbailey: Hi
[03:12] <jbailey> [linesca] : Heya!
[03:12] <[linesca] > jbailey: you got time to look at these blades
[03:13] <jbailey> [linesca] : Yup, that's what I'm here for. =)
[03:13] <[linesca] > jbailey: cool.  I have a clean install of Ubuntu.  What you want next ?
[03:14] <jbailey> [linesca] : A clean install that doesn't boot, right?
[03:14] <[linesca] > jbailey: Right
[03:15] <jbailey> Kamion mentioend rescue mode on the CD yesterday, lemme try that.
[03:15] <jbailey> (I'm just trying it locally)
[03:15] <jbailey> Hmm.
[03:15] <[linesca] > jbailey: OK, I am new to Ubuntu.... I take it at the boot option just enter rescue
[03:15] <jbailey> Need an i386 boot cd rather than amd64, gimme a sec to burn it.
[03:15] <jbailey> [linesca] : Looks like it.
[03:16] <[linesca] > np
[03:22] <mdke> Riddell, ping
[03:23] <Riddell> mdke: hi
[03:23] <mdke> Riddell, hello :) did you see that email from a Geoffrey Ready, pointing out the mistake on the -uk homepage?
[03:23] <Kamion> [linesca] : yes
[03:23] <Riddell> yes
[03:23] <[linesca] > Kamion: cool ta
[03:24] <mdke> Riddell, better change "Britain" to "UK" or Kamion will get you...
[03:24] <CarlFK> Kamion - just ran the same install using the new iso - still no wget, but it did let me "exit the base sys config" without erroring 
[03:24] <Kamion> did it throw you into aptitude?
[03:25] <CarlFK> no.  put me at a login: prompt
[03:25] <Kamion> I think I'm really going to have to look at this myself, sorry - it's too hard to debug remotely
[03:25] <CarlFK> oh yeah, you said wget isn't sposed to be there, so that is fine too
[03:26] <Kamion> no, it's not fine
[03:26] <Kamion> it's not supposed to be there before pkgsel runs successfully, but finish runs after pkgsel
[03:26] <Kamion> so that implies pkgsel failed, which should not have happened without kicking you into aptitude or displaying some reason why it failed or something
[03:26] <CarlFK> ah
[03:27] <[linesca] > Kamion Jbailey: I am now in rescue mode
[03:27] <jbailey> [linesca] : Lovely, my CD burn just finished and I'm rebooting.
[03:28] <Kamion> mvo: can I inject my own commands into the apt status protocol assuming I prefix them with _ or something?
[03:28] <[linesca] > Jbailey: Perfect timing :)
[03:28] <jbailey> I haven't played with resuce mode before.  I usually go into the menu and load the drivers that I need and such
[03:28] <Kamion> mvo: I'd like to be able to use _start and _stop to control my debconf progress bar widget
[03:28] <Kamion> jbailey: it's really just an automation of that
[03:28] <jbailey> Kamion: Ah, sweet.
[03:28] <Kamion> I got bored of explaining to people how to do it themselves
[03:28] <mvo> Kamion: yes, that should be ok
[03:28] <Kamion> and got somewhat bored of doing it myself, for that matter
[03:28] <Kamion> mvo: thanks
[03:28] <jbailey> Kamion: ;)
[03:30] <Zomb> hi
[03:30] <Zomb> mozilla in Hoary (sec. update) dies with: INTERNAL ERROR on Browser End: No manager for initializing factory?
[03:30] <Zomb> a known problem?
[03:30] <siretart> any extensions installed?
[03:30] <bob2> did you restart it after updating it?
[03:31] <Zomb> siretart: nothing special. Dies even on fresh user accounts.
[03:31] <CarlFK> Kamion - do you want ssh access to the box?
[03:32] <Kamion> CarlFK: nah, it's ok, I'll look at the problem later today
[03:32] <Kamion> but I'm writing other code just now
[03:32] <jbailey> Kamion: Ooo, aside from the black on white text, this is just lovely.
[03:32] <Kamion> jbailey: oh, in the shell, you mean? yeah, bterm ...
[03:32] <Zomb> oh, Ubuntu packages are not an option, using upstream firefox again
[03:32] <CarlFK> no prob - I just wanted a box I could try to build transcode on, and I think I have that now
[03:33] <jbailey> Kamion: Thanks for the hack. =)
[03:33] <sivang> [linesca] : what machines do you try to install on?
[03:33] <jbailey> [linesca] : Cool, so now do:
[03:33] <jbailey> [linesca] : mount /proc
[03:33] <[linesca] > sivang: HS20 Blade
[03:33] <jbailey> [linesca] : Actually mount /sys is better
[03:34] <Zomb> oh, sorry, it's caused by java
[03:34] <[linesca] > jbailey: got the whole lot mounted at the moment
[03:37] <jbailey> [linesca] : cd into /proc/scsi
[03:38] <jbailey> If you do ls -al, there should be a directory or two in there, what are they?
[03:38] <[linesca] > jbailey: hold two, phone is going
[03:38] <jbailey> [linesca] : I'm patient
[03:38] <[linesca] > customers.......!
[03:39] <sivang> [linesca] : I an trying to make mine work on the pSeries :)
[03:39] <jbailey> [linesca] : I'm not allowed to rant about customers in Ubuntu channels ;)
[03:40] <[linesca] > jbailey: life would be so much easier if they were not aloowed to touch stuff :)
[03:40] <[linesca] > sivang: nice
[03:42] <[linesca] > jbailey /proc appears empty
[03:43] <jbailey> [linesca] : Umm.   You said earlier you had the whole lot mounted.  Did you do a mount -a?
[03:43] <jbailey> That  ought to have caught it...
[03:43] <[linesca] > jbailey: just mounted root fs from rescue dialogue
[03:43] <jbailey> Oh, I see. =)
[03:43] <jbailey> Please type mount /proc
[03:43] <zul> jbailey: you rant anyways :)
[03:44] <jbailey> zul: Only about you, dear, and last I checked you weren't a customer. =)
[03:45] <[linesca] > jbailey: sorry, I am in.....It contains device_info mptscsih scsi sg usb-storage
[03:45] <jbailey> *grumble*
[03:45] <jbailey> I wonder why initrd-tools didn't load that?
[03:47] <bddebian> Howdy
[03:47] <mdke> tseng, http://tseng2.ath.cx/~ubuntu-docs/ is lost again
[03:50] <doko> seb128: according to main inclusion queue glitz is already approved for main. Kamion, mdz, elmo: please move it to main
[03:51] <jbailey> [linesca] : Let's actually check first to make sure that this is really the problem.
[03:52] <jbailey> [linesca] : 'cause I'm fairly certain that I dealt with mptscsih a year ago.
[03:52] <jbailey> [linesca] : Please do mkinitrd -k -o /tmp/foo
[03:53] <[linesca] > jbailey: done
[03:54] <jbailey> [linesca] : Hop into the directory that it told you about.
[03:54] <[linesca] > jbailey /proc/scsi ?
[03:55] <jbailey> No, the mkinitrd command should've told you that the temp directory for /tmp/SOMETHING
[03:55] <[linesca] > jbailey : done
[03:57] <jbailey> [linesca] : There should be a modules and a modules.2 file in there
[03:58] <jbailey> [linesca] : cat them please and look for mptscsih ?
[03:59] <[linesca] > jbailey: it is in both
[04:00] <luis_> daniels: do you have a report of xlibs pre-installation scripts failing?
[04:00] <jbailey> [linesca] : This really sounds like it's not the problem we're having then.
[04:02] <jbailey> [linesca] : Please do a mount -a
[04:02] <jbailey> [linesca] : Is your keyboard ps/2 or usb?
[04:03] <[linesca] > Jbailey: PS/2
[04:03] <ogra> luis_, tons :)
[04:04] <jbailey> [linesca] : Cool.  Please edit (using vi or whatever) /etc/mkinitrd/mkinitrd.conf
[04:04] <jbailey> You'll see a "DELAY=0" in there, please change it to 5
[04:04] <mdke> elmo, have recovered the linode server, is there any chance you can point http://docteam.ubuntu.com at it?
[04:07] <[linesca] > jbailey: customers again, back in two
[04:07] <jdthood> Has anyone reported problems starting the latest OOo?
[04:09] <jbailey> jdthood: It doesn't install for me, so.. =)
[04:10] <jdthood> 'OpenOffice.org cannot be started due to an error in accessing the OpenOffice.org configuration data.  Please contact your system administrator.  The following internal error has occurred: GetStorage, name: "No Content!'
[04:10] <luis_> works fine here, except for the normal 'longer to startup than any other app on this machine by a factor of 2, at least'
[04:11] <jdthood> OOo version 1.1.4-5ubuntu1 except for -debian-files which is still 1.1.4-3+2ubuntu1 in the archive
[04:16] <daniels> luis_: like fifty
[04:16] <daniels> luis_: you can have some of mine if you like
[04:20] <[linesca] > jbailey: sorry about that  it is done
[04:26] <jbailey> [linesca] : Cool.  So I'll get you to do
[04:26] <jbailey> [linesca] : mkinitrd -o /boot/initrd.img-$(uname -r)
[04:26] <jbailey> [linesca] : And then reboot.  The will put in a five second pause at startup
[04:27] <jbailey> [linesca] : First time, I want you to try letting it continue to see if it really is just the scsi bus waking up slowl.
[04:27] <jbailey> [linesca] : And failing that it will also let us drop into a shell to polke around.
[04:27] <[linesca] > jbailey: np
[04:31] <[linesca] > jbailey: that failed :(
[04:33] <jbailey> [linesca] : did it say 'pauasing for 5 seconds' ?
[04:33] <[linesca] > np: yep, I am now in a shell
[04:36] <jbailey> [linesca] : But just waiting for 5 seconds gave the same failure as before? 
[04:37] <[linesca] > jbailey: Yes it did
[04:38] <Kamion> on base-config. grumble.
[04:39] <Kamion> 99MB trace, whee
[04:51] <pitti> Morning lamont!
[04:52] <mvo> Kamion: I commited the fixed apt--progress-reporting to baz. it should keep your fds now. please report any problems you may find :)
[04:54] <Kamion> mvo: great, thanks. I'm fighting with FIFO handling in base-config at the moment; will test once I've resolved that
[04:54] <elmo> mvo: ?
[04:54] <mvo> elmo: ?
[04:55] <elmo> mvo: is this apu-* stuff planned for main?
[04:55] <mvo> elmo: eventually, but universe is fine for now, I haven't done the MainInclusionReport stuff (yet)
[04:56] <mvo> Kamion: thanks
[04:56] <elmo> mvo: not to be a kill joy or anything, but a couple of things scare me
[04:56] <elmo> mvo: 'update' is very generic as a username isn't it?
[04:56] <elmo> mvo: and can  this random editing of /etc/sudoers possibly be policy compliant?
[04:58] <mvo> elmo: probably not, but it's meant for clients that should be automatically managed
[04:58] <mvo> elmo: if the admin has to walk over for each client and edit sudoers (and sources.list and friends) by hand there wouldn't be much point in having the package
[04:58] <mvo> (IMO)
[04:59] <elmo> well, sure, I can see why you're doing it; it's just well...
[05:00] <mvo> elmo: I'm open for better ideas of course. I think I will (at least) add a big fat warning in the package description of the client that it should _only_ be installed if the machine should be part of a apu network
[05:04] <jdthood> pitti: #12276 is assigned to alsa-driver.  What should be done about it?
[05:05] <pitti> jdthood: well, it's a bug in the kernel drivers; it should probably be reported upstream
[05:09] <mdz> doko: according to main inclusion queue, glitz was already promoted
[05:10] <pitti>      glitz | 0.4.3+cvs20050728-1ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/universe Sources
[05:10] <pitti> hm, obviously not yet
[05:18] <elmo> doko: ?
[05:24] <doko> mdz: according to http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libc/libcairo/0.6.0-0ubuntu3/libcairo_0.6.0-0ubuntu3_20050803-1548-i386-failed.gz, not yet
[05:24] <doko> elmo: pong
[05:25] <elmo> doko: are you sure all these c++ libs, only have the c++ transition as the ubuntu change?
[05:25] <elmo> [Updating]  imagemagick (6:6.2.3.1-1ubuntu1 [Ubuntu]  < 6:6.2.3.4-1 [Debian] )
[05:25] <elmo> and that's a UVF
[05:26] <doko> elmo: ouch. I did check those, and mentioned these with new upstream versions explicitely. obviously I missed imagemagick
[05:27] <elmo> the rest are safe to sync tho, right?
[05:27] <doko> elmo: yes, all do have the very same library package name
[05:29] <mdz> elmo: glitz doesn't seem to show up in anastacia output, though libcairo build-deps on it
[05:30] <elmo> mdz: the libcario upload probably post dates the last cron.sync run
[05:30] <elmo> rerunning it
[05:31] <elmo> mdz: you can rerun cron.sync arbitrarily, but just be careful you don't clash it with cron.daily or germinate + anastacia will get all kinds of confused
[05:31] <elmo> unfortunately (esp. with edubuntu) it's really too  slow to run every cron.daily
[05:31] <ogra> elmo, anything i can do to not be the bad guy here ? 
[05:32] <ogra> :)
[05:32] <mdz> oh, I didn't realize this was a new situation
[05:32] <mdz> I assumed from the fact that it already had a main inclusion report, and that doko expected it to be promoted, that it had been this way for a while
[05:32] <elmo> Date: Wed,  3 Aug 2005 00:25:13 +0200
[05:32] <elmo>    * debian/control, debian/rules:
[05:32] <elmo>      - build with glitz.
[05:33] <elmo> I'm guessing based on that changelog
[05:33] <elmo> ogra: it's not edubuntu particularly, germinate's just not very fast.  well and jackass is getting a bit old in the tooth
[05:33] <doko> mdz: libatomic-ops was built with gcc-3.3, not 4.0
[05:33] <jamesh> there's not that much of a reason to link cairo to glitz
[05:34] <ogra> elmo, time for an upgrade ;)
[05:34] <jamesh> given that the current plan for acceleration is for Cairo to use RENDER, and have the X server accelerate RENDER using glitz
[05:35] <seb128> jamesh: according to doko OO.o wants it
[05:38] <doko> jamesh: OOo2 wants a glitz enabled cairo, if cairo is enabled at all for the OOo2 build.
[05:45] <mvo> elmo: I thought a bit about the problem (with apu-client) and I'll do it differently now. thanks for your comments
[05:47] <elmo> mvo: ok - mind if I reject the existing packages for now?
[05:47] <mvo> elmo: fine with me
[05:58] <elmo> doko: grr
[05:58] <elmo> taglib in Debian is producing libtagc0
[05:58] <elmo> as opposed to our libtagc0c2
[06:00] <mdz> elmo: could anastacia delimit the binaries with spaces rather than commas, for better cut-and-pasteability?
[06:01] <elmo> mdz: sure, done
[06:01] <mdz> thanks
[06:03] <doko> elmo: correct, I need to rebuild the depending package (streamtuner)
[06:04] <azeem> is libtagc0 a C++ library?
[06:04] <azeem> there is libtagc1c2 in Debian
[06:04] <azeem> eh, libtag1c2
[06:04] <elmo> azeem: I think it's a C++ in C thing
[06:04] <elmo> there's something about it in the changelog
[06:04] <azeem> so the Debian NMU was incorrect?
[06:05] <elmo> no
[06:05] <elmo> or, rather I don't know
[06:05] <elmo> or much care - I'm just going to trust doko, and beat him up later if he's wrong ;)
[06:05] <azeem> well, Ubuntu and Debian transition in a different way
[06:05] <elmo> azeem: err, no they don't?
[06:05] <doko> according to the changelog, it does have a C API, so the name should not be changed. I'll check aggain
[06:06] <azeem> 17:54 < elmo> as opposed to our libtagc0c2
[06:06] <azeem> well, *shrug*
[06:06] <elmo> azeem: right, but it was an unrecoginsed C++ implemented in C thing
[06:06] <elmo> we still transition in the same way, when we both recognise real C++ libraries
[06:06] <azeem> aha.
[06:10] <doko> elmo: I still look healthy ;)
[06:29] <lamont> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[06:29] <lamont>   archdetect: Depends: libdebian-installer4 (>= 0.31)
[06:29] <lamont>   kbd-chooser: Depends: libdebian-installer4 (>= 0.31)
[06:29] <lamont> sucks to be amd64
[06:31] <Kamion> lamont: what's that, a d-i build?
[06:31] <Kamion> libdebian-installer4 |       0.31 |        breezy | amd64, hppa, i386, powerpc, sparc
[06:32] <lamont> yeah, this mornings
[06:32] <Kamion> I assume a retry would work
[06:32] <Kamion> but libdebian-installer4 0.31 has been there for a while
[06:32] <lamont> probably
[06:32] <Kamion> like, four or five days
[06:33] <Kamion> -rw-r--r--  1 lamont buildd 14455 Jul 28 16:49 libdebian-installer_0.31_20050728-1648-amd64-successful.gz
[06:36] <elmo> it's been failing for several days now
[06:36] <elmo> the d-i daily build I mean
[06:37] <Kamion> Unpacking libdebian-installer4 (from .../libdebian-installer4_0.30_amd64.deb) ...
[06:37] <Kamion> doesn't it auto-'apt-get update'?
[06:38] <Kamion> 'cos I have no idea where it's getting that .deb from unless it's its local cache
[06:38] <elmo> modern sbuild does - I would hope ours is synced enough to do that
[06:38] <dilinger> is there a backports site for hoary/ubuntu?
[06:39] <lamont> elmo: modern buildd does
[06:39] <elmo> err, buildd right
[06:40] <lamont> good catch elmo
[06:40] <lamont> Kamion: and thanks for pointing me in the right direction
[06:40] <Kamion> ah, good, glad it wasn't my fault ;)
[06:42] <ogra> dilinger, talk to Mez, he should make a wikipage with a list 
[06:42] <lamont> Kamion/elmo: you want an amd64 daily today, then?
[06:43] <Kamion> lamont: *shrug* can live
[06:43] <elmo> lamont: not fussed
[06:43] <seb128> elmo, Kamion: can you move libexif12 to main? soname change ...
[06:44] <elmo> seb128: done
[06:44] <seb128> thanks
[06:44] <seb128> (s/can/could)
[06:53] <doko> pitti: when was our meeting with carlos, I remember 16:30 UTC ?
[06:53] <carlos> doko, in 40 minutes
[06:54] <doko> ah, ok
[06:54] <carlos> but I'm already here so if you want to do it earlier, is ok for me
[06:55] <pitti> doko: 1730 UTC, I think
[06:55] <pitti> carlos: I still need some time to discuss with jdthood 
[06:55] <carlos> ok
[06:58] <nomeata> Why is murphy suddenly not accepting my mails?     SMTP error from remote mailer after end of data:    host murphy.debian.org [146.82.138.6] : 550 Error:    improper use of 8-bit data in message header
[06:59] <elmo> nomeata: err, -ECHAN
[07:01] <Kamion> elmo: crap, I entirely forgot something about the ubuntu-base split. Could you please add "Task: ubuntu-standard" headers to the breezy Packages files for stuff in germinate's 'standard' outputs, the same as is done for ubuntu-desktop?
[07:02] <Kamion> this might be one reason CarlFK's network installs have been going a bit weird
[07:05] <elmo> Kamion: ok - mostly done, will finish/test when this cron.daily is over
[07:06] <Kamion> elmo: cool, thanks
[07:06] <Kamion> sometime, kubuntu-standard and kubuntu-desktop Task lines would be nice too, although I appreciate the potential combinatorial explosion
[07:06] <elmo> and edubuntu-* presumably too?
[07:07] <Kamion> yeah
[07:07] <elmo> ok
[07:07] <Kamion> although I'm not sure if there's a target for netboot installs of edubuntu
[07:07] <Kamion> it doesn't matter for CD image installs, debian-cd fills stuff in itself
[07:09] <nomeata> elmo: oops. right. I have to get used to being in two -devel channels now :-)
[07:11] <ogra> Kamion, people smart enough to use netboot should be able to just install edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop on top of a minimal system...
[07:11] <Mez> infinity or lamont, ping
[07:11] <ogra> so one netinstaller iso should be enough...
[07:12] <Kamion> ogra: I don't particularly want netboot to be for people who are "smart enough"
[07:12] <Kamion> ogra: the point is base-config goes wrong in a non-obvious way
[07:12] <ogra> oh
[07:12] <ogra> ok
[07:13] <Kamion> that said, there aren't actually netboot images available for Kubuntu or Edubuntu with the appropriately-twiddled preseeds at the moment, so you're right that the bar is somewhat higher than it is for Ubuntu netboot
[07:13] <ogra> yes, but i'm rather interested in a liveCD/DVD iso then in a netboot one to be honest
[07:14] <ogra> s/but//
[07:14] <Kamion> right, if that's the main target then that's fine
[07:14] <Riddell> I get quite a few requests for netboot kubuntu
[07:15] <Kamion> I'll try to sort that out closer to release, but my feature freeze targets have to take priority at the moment
[07:15] <pkern> Does anyone know where I could get source-dependencies for sbuild to get it building for hoary?
[07:18] <elmo> yeah
[07:18] <pkern> k
[07:18] <elmo> source-dependencies are obsolete
[07:18] <pkern> elmo: Also with the stock buildd instead of the debian-admin one?
[07:19] <elmo> debian-admin one is the stock one now; at least AFAIC
[07:19] <lamont> Kamion: the daily chroot updates at 0215 DCT made the chroot generally current..
[07:30] <pitti> doko_, carlos:  #ubuntu-meeting?
[07:39] <elmo> argh cron.sync is such a hideous freakin mess
[07:39] <ogra> eeek, glitz broke my pbuilder ?
[07:40] <seb128> how?
[07:40] <ogra> checking for gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.0... Package glitz was not found in the pkg-config search path. Perhaps you should add the directory containing `glitz.pc' to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable Package 'glitz', required by 'cairo', not found
[07:40] <ogra> configure: error: Library requirements (gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0.0) not met; 
[07:41] <seb128> sure, waiting is the wait to get bug fixed
[07:41] <seb128> I guess that libcairo1-dev should Depends on libglitz-dev
[07:42] <ogra> seb128, glitz isnt in main yet if i understood correctly
[07:43] <seb128> no, that's not the issue you have
[07:43] <ogra> oh
[07:43] <seb128> cairo.pc probably mentions glitz
[07:43] <ogra> likely... according to the error
[07:43] <seb128> Requires: fontconfig libpixman xrender libpng12 glitz
[07:44] <ogra> yup
[07:46] <seb128> and glitz is main atm
[07:47] <ogra> oh... it wasnt this morning iirc
[07:47] <Kamion> I don't understand, glitz is in main now and it does sound as if libcairo1-dev should depend on libglitz1-dev if its .pc file has that dependency
[07:48] <Kamion> oh, sorry, seb128 said that
 I guess that libcairo1-dev should Depends on libglitz-dev
[07:48] <seb128> I'm fixing atm
[07:48] <Kamion> I thought ogra said that and seb128 contradicted, so I got very confused, whoops
[07:48] <ogra> Kamion, i just misunderstood the error seb128 clearified...
[07:49] <seb128> fix uploaded
[07:50] <elmo> Kamion: ok, all done - {,k,e}ubuntu-{desktop,standard} tasks - can you check override.breezy.main.extra and make sure it looks sane?
[07:57] <mxpxpod> is there a way to get horizontal scrolling using the microsoft bluetooth explorer mouse in xorg?
[07:59] <Kamion> elmo: yes, looks pretty much OK to me
[08:10] <sabdfl> jbailey: hiya - could you fix bzr in breezy please?
[08:11] <bddebian> Wow, now that is a greeting :-)
[08:13] <sabdfl> usually followed by kthxbye ;-)
[08:35] <trygvebw> wow, it works :D
[08:46] <jbailey> sabdfl: Yes, dear. =)
[08:46] <sabdfl> thanks honey ;-)
[08:46] <bddebian> heh
[08:47] <Treenaks> And the predictions come true :) Novell is going to create "OpenSuse", to get more community participation
[08:47] <Treenaks> http://news.com.com/Novell+seeks+outside+help+with+Linux/2100-7344_3-5816079.html
[08:47] <sabdfl> bddebian: he gets this much tenderness because his hair is longer than mine
[08:47] <sabdfl> yay! good for them, finally
[08:48] <Treenaks> yeah, maybe it'll fix the issues I'm having with suse on my work desktop
[08:49] <Treenaks> sabdfl: and they copy well:
[08:49] <Treenaks> sabdfl: Novell plans to distribute Suse Linux CDs in magazines, at trade shows and meetings, and possibly by sending them to those who just ask.
[08:49] <sivang> hehe
[08:49] <bddebian> sabdfl: Scary ;-)
[08:49] <Treenaks> -- news.com.com.com
[08:49] <sivang> sabdfl: how does it feel to be a pioneer :)
[08:51] <jbailey> sabdfl: Ah.  By 'fix' you mean put it in there at all? =)
[08:52] <elmo>        bzr |  0.0.5-2.1 | breezy/universe | source
[08:53] <jbailey> Ah, a pile of failed builds.
[08:53] <sivang> Treenaks: so nice to see that Ubuntu doesn't need to be "open" , it already is :)
[08:54] <Treenaks> sivang: I mailed the link sounder :)
[08:54] <Treenaks> +to
[08:54] <HiddenWolf> Ah, well, it's good for the linux community in general
[08:55] <HiddenWolf> Just hope that not too many people get put off by them. :P
[08:56] <maswan> heh. OpenUbuntu. that just looks weird.
[08:56] <Treenaks> maswan: that's just too goatse I guess
[08:56] <maswan> a 3-handed goatse as logo?
[08:57] <Treenaks> maswan: Well, "open" -> "more open" -> "goatse"
[08:59] <bddebian> Better make sure there's no Unixware code in there.. ;-P
[09:03] <HiddenWolf> About that opensuse thing, I think we can say they did an Ubuntu. How about adding that to wikipedia. ;)
[09:06] <martinhj> mjg59: ok, I have now tested ACPI events with vanilla 2.6.12.3 from kernel.org on my Acer TravelMate 620.. it works with that kernel, but not with Ubuntu one... I have done some more testing also.. want me to write a bug-report on it?
[09:09] <mvo> Kamion: did you had a chance to test the improved apt--progress-reporting code? does it keep your fds now?
[09:14] <Kamion> mvo: I got somewhat sidetracked by realising I had to rewrite a chunk of base-config before I could test it
[09:14] <Kamion> and further sidetracked by a piece of my network randomly failing for no good reason, so I had to rig up an alternative route via my laptop
[09:14] <mvo> mdz: just a FYI: apt--progress-reporting contains some more changes to better support net-installs. could you please have a look and consider a merge (once kamion had a chance to do some more testing)?
[09:14] <mvo> Kamion: ok, no problem. thanks for the update
[09:14] <Kamion> I'm still on it, though, but only have about fifteen more minutes this evening
[09:16] <mvo> that's fine, I should stop working too, I'm not 100% concentracted anymore
[09:17] <Kamion> I'm fine, the freaking world keeps breaking that's all :P
[09:17] <mvo> heh :)
[09:19] <mdz> mvo: it changes the API
[09:19] <mdz> I guess since I haven't released 0.6.40, that's OK
[09:20] <mvo> mdz: the api? what bit?
[09:20] <mdz> mvo: Configuration::Clear()
[09:20] <mdz> it adds two new functions
[09:20] <mdz> anyway, the soname is already updated in mainline, so it's OK
[09:20] <mdz> mvo: I've merged to patch-22
[09:20] <mvo> mdz: yes, it breaks the abi, but the other change did that too
[09:20] <mdz> mvo: that's what I just said
[09:20] <mvo> mdz: yes, sorry (was not quick enough). thanks for merging
[09:21] <mvo> mdz: the two new cleaers where needed because apts configuration class let you not remove a single element from a configuration list. only complete subtrees 
[09:26] <dholbach> hellas
[09:26] <pitti> Hi dholbach
[09:26] <dholbach> hey pitti :)
[09:27] <ogra> ol
[09:28] <janimo> hey daniel
[09:29] <dholbach> janimo: !!! :)
[09:29] <dholbach> janimo: had some xfce action today?
[09:30] <janimo> am doing it just now :)
[09:30] <janimo> hope to get it in shape these days
[09:30] <janimo> then I'll need to close lots of bugs
[09:32] <dholbach> :)
[09:55] <siretart> fabbione: ping
[09:59] <siretart> does anyone know how fabbione is doing? I haven't read him since some time..
[10:00] <bddebian> I usually see him come on late at night my time
[10:00] <mdz> siretart: fabbione is on holiday
[10:00] <siretart> ah, that explains
[10:00] <siretart> mdz: I have a friend you would like to offer sparc hardware and hosting to ubuntu, for buildd
[10:02] <mdz> siretart: fabbione would be the person to talk to about our sparc needs
[10:03] <siretart> ok. Then my memory didn't fool me this time :)
[10:09] <pitti> yay, l-restricted modules, thanks mdz!
[10:15] <siretart> woohoo!
[10:17] <doko> elmo, mdz, Kamion: please promote libtagc0 to main (package name changed back from libtagc0c2)
[10:33] <\sh> evening
[10:36] <sivang> evening \sh , what's cooking ? ;)
[10:39] <\sh> sivang: well..I just ate some turkish food :) lamacun + dner
[10:45] <\sh> doko: ping
[10:45] <doko> pong
[10:46] <\sh> doko: do I understand the CxxLibraryResync list correct, that we sync all libs back from debian?
[10:48] <ogra> Mez, somebody asked for a list of all backportaed packages today, could you make a wikipage with a list ? its not the first time this was asked here
[10:49] <doko> yes, if there are no new upstreams at the moment. however, that's low priority. I just want to have these cases syncs, where the package name in ubuntu and debian diverges
[10:51] <janimonoses> ogra, what do I need for bugzilla edit privilege?
[10:51] <Burgundavia> ogra, a page already exists. Look in CategoryArchive on the wiki
[10:51] <janimonoses> does bugzilla not share accounts with wiki/launchpad?
[10:51] <ogra> janimonoses, nope
[10:52] <ogra> janimonoses, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
[10:52] <janimonoses> so can you enable me editong bugs?
[10:52] <janimonoses> ok I'll look
[10:52] <\sh> doko: so we will take the transitioned package from debian and put our ubuntuX version postfix to it? right now it confuses me more then it's helping me
[10:52] <ogra> janimonoses, i'll enable you again
[10:52] <ogra> janimonoses, whats your bugzilla login ?
[10:53] <janimonoses> jani dot monoses at gmail.com
[10:54] <ogra> janimonoses, use the power wise ... youre empowered ;)
[10:54] <janimonoses> ogra, thanks :)
[10:55] <doko> \sh: no, we request a sync from unstable, which usually elmo does handle, without changing the source. the goal is to have these packages autosynced again
[10:56] <janimonoses> ogra, I logged out then in and still cannot change the resolution field.in fact it is not shown
[10:57] <janimonoses> ogra, nevermind I see it now
[10:58] <\sh> doko: ok...but only then, if there is no new upstream release, only debian changes
[10:58] <mdz> doko: aspell is broken now
[10:59] <doko> mdz: I'll have a look
[10:59] <pitti> good night, guys
[10:59] <mdz> doko: it seems to need a newer dictionaries-common
[11:01] <janimonoses> no way to control bugzilla by email?
[11:05] <Amaranth> no
[11:08] <ogra> hmpf...
[11:09] <doko> mdz: no, d-c is ok. we now need to sync the dictionaries from unstable. I'm preparing a list
[11:14] <mdz> doko: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[11:14] <mdz>   aspell: Depends: dictionaries-common (> 0.40) but 0.30.2 is to be installed
[11:16] <doko> mdz: yes, just found it
[11:32] <yann__> seb128  o/
[11:33] <seb128> hi
[11:34] <dholbach> hey seb128 :)
[11:35] <seb128> daniel ! :)
[11:35] <dholbach> woohoo! :)
[11:35] <seb128> re dholbach
[11:35] <seb128> :)
[11:36] <dholbach> seb128, the gnome-inator is back :)
[11:41] <doko> mdz: checked, that dictionaries-common-0.49.2 builds and installs fine on breezy. proposing this one for breezy. is an upload urgent, or can the sync wait until tomorrow?
[11:44] <mdz> doko: does it need a merge or just a sync?
[11:46] <mdz> argh, the new unionfs seems to break ltsp completely
[11:47] <doko> mdz: sync only
[11:48] <mdz> doko: I see no reason to wait
[11:48] <mdz> if it will unbreak breezy
[11:48] <elmo> eh, that doesn't mean upload it, instead of getting it synced tho
[11:49] <doko> elmo: correct
[11:49] <mdz> elmo: I see no reason to wait [before requesting a sync] 
[11:52] <dholbach> we're 8 minutes before the motu meeting - if you're interested.... :)
[11:53] <niktaris> mdz, 
[11:56] <mdz> ogra: can moodle use php5-gd rather than php4-gd?
[11:57] <ogra> mdz, i'll be looking at it soon... currently gcompris is on the surgery table here
[11:58] <dholbach> ogra: a scalpel won't do - you'll need a welding apparatus or something :)
[11:58] <doko> ogra: you're breaking it down in components?
[11:58] <mdz> ogra: anastacia output is at people.u.c/~mdz/anastacia.txt
[11:58] <ajmitch> doko: do you mind boa-constructor being imported from experimental after some testing?
[11:58] <mdz> ogra: that shows which packages want to enter main (and thus need review and reports)
[11:58] <ogra> dholbach, yes, i recognized... i just tried a patch cvs vs debian package... its HUGE !
[11:58] <doko> ajmitch: not at all
[11:59] <ogra> mdz, ok, i'll go through it
[11:59] <doko> ajmitch: using wx2.4 or 2.6 ?
[11:59] <martinhj> with the new battstat-applet, when my battery is fully charged, the icon turns into a battery again even with the power cord connected..
[12:00] <niktaris> mdz, everything is ok with d-i (was missing a file) what would be needed to make casper work (besides putting it into d-i). It seems to load but complains about not finding the preinstalled session
[12:00] <ogra> MOTU meeting starts in #ubuntu-meeting
[12:00] <ajmitch> doko: 2.6
[12:01] <mdz> niktaris: you need to provide an ext2+cloop filesystem image
[12:01] <mdz> that is sort of the core of a live CD, the filesystem image
[12:02] <niktaris> mdz the cloop filesystem is there. What do you mean by ext2 ?
[12:02] <doko> mdz: do you care about UVF for monotone (0.20 FTBFS in breezy, 0.21 compiles)
[12:02] <mdz> niktaris: cloop is not a filesystem
[12:02] <mdz> doko: UVF is pretty relaxed for universe
[12:03] <doko> ajmitch: you do use wxversion for the the selection of the wx version?
[12:03] <niktaris> mdz a compressed filesystem
[12:03] <doko> mdz: fine.
[12:03] <doko> elmo: please sync monotone
[12:03] <mdz> niktaris: cloop compresses a file, any file.  in the case of casper, that file must be an ext2 filesystem.
[12:03] <ajmitch> doko: that's why was asking what is best, I wasn't sure what changed with recent wx
[12:04] <ajmitch> doko: it currently depends on wxpython2.6-0