[12:10] <robitaille> dholbach: thanks.   which part? :)
[12:11] <dholbach> the .ics part this time :)
[12:11] <Mo42> dholbach, could you review my gnomeradio package on revu? just if/when you have some time left...
[12:12] <dholbach> Mo42: i'm completely out of time, but i'll give it a look later, alright?
[12:37] <dholbach> now mo42's away
[12:37] <dholbach> hrbml
[12:38] <ogra> dholbach, how up to date are you currently ?
[12:38] <ogra> dholbach, my firefox crashes constantly if i go back...
[12:38] <dholbach> i don't have the newest one
[12:38] <dholbach> just a sec
[12:38] <ogra> hmm, keep the old one around :)
[12:39] <dholbach> i still have the source around because i compiled it with debugging symbols :)
[12:39] <ogra> ah, great
[12:40] <dholbach> upgrade.... :)
[12:42] <dholbach> ouch, why that?
[12:43] <dholbach> ogra: seems ok
[12:43] <dholbach> although i'm inclined to say, i like epiphany much better by now
[12:44] <ajmitch> dholbach: win XP
[12:44] <ogra> dholbach, hmm, strange... i cant read a heise article and go back...
[12:44] <dholbach> ajmitch: good point
[12:44] <ajmitch> dholbach: been using firefox, it's using a fair bit of memory on windows
[12:44] <ajmitch> and windows *really* can't handle it :)
[12:45] <dholbach> ogra: heise works fine for me
[12:45] <ogra> dholbach, with back button/alt-left ?
[12:46] <dholbach> yep
[12:46] <dholbach> works nicely
[12:46] <dholbach> ok pals, i'm off to bed - see you around
[12:47] <ajmitch> bye dholbach
[12:47] <crimsun> bye dholbach
[12:47] <sistpoty> gn8 dholbach
[12:47] <dholbach> :)
[12:47] <ogra> ciao dholbach
[12:51] <ajmitch> doesn't gmane already provide them?
[12:52] <ogra> ajmitch, Seveas says he only parses the changelog and discards the rest
[12:52] <ajmitch> ogra: could be useful
[12:52] <ajmitch> the changelog is the most entertaining part
[12:52] <ogra> gmane shows tha whole changes mail
[12:52] <ogra> the even
[12:52] <ajmitch> especially with daniels :)
[12:52] <Seveas> ajmitch, I'm currently working on prettifying it a bit
[12:52] <ogra> grimpf... i cursed daniels a lot today
[12:53] <Seveas> hehe
[12:53] <ogra> Seveas, http://www.wiggy.net/presentations/2001/DebianWalkThrough/handouts/handouts.html#AEN305
[12:53] <ajmitch> ogra: 1024x768 doesn't resize well on your screen? :)
[12:53] <Seveas> ogra, found the spec already
[12:53] <Seveas> but thanks :)
[12:53] <ogra> i guess its also in the debian NM guide anywhere
[12:53] <ogra> ajmitch, nope...
[12:54] <ogra> ajmitch, its stretched and horribly blurry... after 10min i get a headache
[12:54] <ajmitch> dpkg-parsechangelog might spit out something remotely useful for you
[12:55] <ogra> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/ might be useful too :)
[12:55] <ajmitch> true
[01:35] <Seveas> all true
[01:35] <Seveas> but i'm using the mail to update automatically :)
[01:36] <Seveas> and the mails have a soewhat different format then the official changelog format
[01:36] <Seveas> anywho, I've prettified them
[01:36] <Seveas> even with correct spacing in the xml and html :)
[02:44] <bddebian> Dang where is everyone?
[02:49] <majic> right here
[02:49] <majic> hello bddebian
[02:52] <bddebian> Heya majic
[02:54] <majic> how are ya?
[02:54] <bddebian> Fair to midland. You?
[02:57] <majic> doing good... Just drank a pot of coffee... Now I'm bouncing off the walls
[02:58] <bddebian> heh
[02:58] <ajmitch> hello bddebian, majic
[02:59] <majic> what's up ajmitch?
[02:59] <ajmitch> just had lunch :)
[02:59] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[02:59] <ajmitch> feeling somewhat closer to alive
[02:59] <bddebian> OK, where the hell is pxscan?
[03:00] <ajmitch> firstly, what is pxscan?
[03:00] <bddebian> I don't have a clue but yaprimaxgui depends on it :-)
[03:02] <ajmitch> scanner utils
[03:03] <bddebian> lamezor
[03:03] <bddebian> Debian doesn't have it either
[03:04] <ajmitch> so fix it :)
[03:04] <bddebian> But non-free/contrib would have to go in Multiverse right?
[03:04] <ajmitch> sure
[03:04] <ajmitch> but it's not in debian
[03:05] <bddebian> Isn't it odd that a package in Universe would depend on something from Multiverse?
[03:05] <ajmitch> it's not in multiverse...
[03:05] <ajmitch> it's not in the archive at all
[03:05] <bddebian> I know but if it was it would go into Multiverse wouldn't it?
[03:06] <ajmitch> only *if* it were in non-free or contrib
[03:06] <bddebian> I thought that is where you said you found it??
[03:07] <ajmitch> no, I didn't say I found them at all
[03:07] <ajmitch> I said I was looking for them
[03:08] <bddebian> Oh, well you said scanner utils then "looks in..." so I thought that's where you found it. SORRY.. Sheesh :-)
[03:09] <ajmitch> ok, so it's crack that was imported from apt-get.org only just before hoary released
[03:09] <ajmitch> http://www.stuff.demon.co.uk/apt/source/
[03:09] <schweeb> anyone else using network-manager on breezy?
[03:09] <schweeb> mine's borked I think
[03:09] <gradzac> hi everyone
[03:10] <ajmitch> ie someone ran dh_make, tweaked some compile flags & put up a package
[03:10] <ajmitch> schweeb: I've not used it
[03:10] <bddebian> Hello gradzac, schweeb
[03:11] <bddebian> ajmitch: Ahh, OK, thanks
[03:11] <gradzac> schweeb: is the network manager in breezy still gnome-system-tools?
[03:12] <bddebian> OK, I'm not doing as well on UniverseUnmetDeps as I did on Merge stuff :'-(
[03:12] <schweeb> gradzac: I'm talking about real network-manager
[03:13] <ajmitch> bddebian: you've done more than me
[03:13] <bddebian> ajmitch: Yeah, but I'll never be as sexy as you.. ;-)
[03:14] <majic> anyone know if the backported Ruby package is the same as the breezy package? I mean same version. That is probably a dumb question.
[03:14] <ajmitch> majic: it ought to be
[03:15] <majic> ok, because that version is a 1.9pre
[03:15] <majic> which doesn't make alot of sense either
[03:15] <majic> we go from a broken 1.8pre to a broken 1.9pre
[03:15] <majic> hehe
[03:15] <ajmitch> majic: I don't know the ruby situation, I just heard that people were going to backport it
[03:15] <bddebian> ajmitch: What's the sigh for this time? :-)
[03:16] <ajmitch> I don't see a ruby 1.9 in breezy
[03:16] <majic> the latest stable is 1.8.2, I'm gonna have to roll my own if it's going to be the 1.9pre build
[03:16] <majic> ajmitch, it's there, I downloaded that package and built it yesterday. It says 1.8.2 but it's really a 1.9 pre
[03:16] <ajmitch> so file a bug
[03:17] <ajmitch> ruby is in main, so we can't do anything with it
[03:17] <ajmitch> bddebian: you :P
[03:17] <bddebian> ajmitch: Can I ask you a question without you sighing at me? :-)
[03:17] <majic> if it's a 1.9 pre like the package I built yesterday I am gonna cry
[03:17] <majic> I don't understand who made that decision
[03:17] <ajmitch> bddebian: depends on the question
[03:18] <ajmitch> majic: the debian maintainer, I'd say
[03:18] <majic> that baffles me
[03:18] <ajmitch> hmm, perhaps not
[03:18] <majic> why are we including pre release stuff in major releases of a distro?
[03:18] <bddebian> ajmitch: I don't get how Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} work
[03:18] <majic> and then code freezing it so it cannot be fixed
[03:19] <majic> I just started with debian packaging yesterday so I don't have the experience to fix the problem. It seems like I'm bitching but I'm not really. I'm fighting for the Ruby developers that want to use Ubuntu like me.
[03:19] <majic> but want to maintain package integrity
[03:20] <ajmitch> majic: as I said, the MOTUs are not the ones to complain to
[03:20] <ajmitch> bddebian: debhelper voodoo
[03:20] <majic> alright =)
[03:22] <ajmitch> ruby --version says 1.8.3 for me
[03:23] <ajmitch> the changes are listed in /usr/share/doc/ruby1.8/changelog.Debian.gz
[03:24] <ajmitch> which says that the updates from 1.8.2 are just for critical bugs
[03:24] <ajmitch> bddebian: what do you not understand about those items?
[03:25] <bddebian> ajmitch: How they get resolved
[03:25] <majic> right 1.8.3 (my bad)
[03:25] <majic> but there is no 1.8.3
[03:25] <majic> unless they are grabbing from CVS
[03:25] <ajmitch> majic: read the changelog
[03:26] <bddebian> If there is already an ubuntuX version and I am just rebuilding should I increment the ubuntu version or no?
[03:26] <ajmitch> it says, critical fixes from cvs
[03:26] <ajmitch> bddebian: yes, increment
[03:26] <bddebian> Thank you
[03:26] <majic> I don't see the change log, is that in the diff?
[03:27] <majic> ok
[03:27] <ajmitch> majic: I gave the changelog path above for an installed package
[03:27] <ajmitch> hi ogra
[03:28] <majic> ah, I don't have it installed anymore. I'm looking at the source package stuff
[03:28] <majic> but I have one question
[03:28] <ajmitch> then look in the diff, it's debian/changelog
[03:29] <majic> since there is no sanctioned endorsed 1.8.3 package on the official website for Ruby, who's responsibility is it to update the software? Distro developers or the developers of the actual software.
[03:29] <majic> ajmitch, did. I see =)
[03:29] <majic> I'd say the latter
[03:29] <majic> but would seem to not be the case
[03:31] <majic> it would seem to me that the distro developers are taking it upon themselves to patch software as they see fit rather than working with the authors to have them officially fixed. Is this the case? It appears like that from the Ruby package that's currently in Breezy
[03:31] <ajmitch> majic: they are officially fixed, of course
[03:31] <ajmitch> the fixes weren't pulled from nowhere, but from ruby cvs
[03:32] <ajmitch> by the debian maintainer
[03:32] <majic> right but why are they doing that?
[03:32] <majic> if the CVS code was finished it'd be an official 1.8.3 package
[03:32] <ajmitch> ask the debian maintainer, I don't know why he chose to do it that way
[03:32] <majic> is that standard policy?
[03:32] <ajmitch> my crystal ball seems to be acting up today
[03:33] <majic> I mean is that normally the case with packaging software for debian / ubuntu?
[03:33] <ajmitch> it is up to the maintainer's discretion
[03:33] <majic> ok
[03:33] <ajmitch> since every upstream is different
[03:34] <majic> alrighty. I'll just forget about it and be happy
[03:36] <bddebian> So if I post a rebuilt package for an MOTU to look at should I just host the debdiff or everything?
[03:38] <gradzac> majic: its up to the maintainer, but the debian maintainers I have talked with usually only package released software
[03:39] <majic> is Breezy frozen now?
[03:39] <ajmitch> majic: upstream version freeze, yes
[03:39] <gradzac> they might build a new package with patches needed to close bugs on debian
[03:39] <ajmitch> feature freeze is on the 11th
[03:39] <ajmitch> exceptions can be made for UVF
[03:40] <ajmitch> gradzac: when it comes to critical fixes, some developers might just update to the latest cvs, rather than try & backport the fixes
[03:40] <majic> so if Breezy currently has a pre-release version of Ruby, will that mean that it cannot be updated to a final release? supposing there was alot more work to be done on it?
[03:41] <ajmitch> majic: depends on bugs
[03:41] <gradzac> ajmitch: true, some do that
[03:41] <ajmitch> if you want the latest just because you're uncomfortable with having a prerelease, then that's probably not adequate justification for breaking the freeze
[03:42] <ajmitch> but if the prerelease has real issues, then sure
[03:42] <majic> ok, I'm just trying to understand the process =)
[03:42] <majic> no problem
[03:42] <gradzac> majic: you could always maintain your own ruby package seperate from the distribution that has the features you want
[03:42] <gradzac> I do that for a debian package that I use
[03:43] <majic> gradzac, yeah. Hehe once I get up to speed on packaging =)
[03:43] <ajmitch> gradzac: which one is that?
[03:45] <gradzac> ajmitch: madman, the version in debian is old and the arch version has a lot of new features.  The debian maintainer only wants to release a new package when the upstream releases.
[03:45] <ajmitch> right
[03:45] <gradzac> majic: debian new maintainers guide is a great place to start
[03:45] <bddebian> How the hell did xbsql end up in my unmet dep output when there is nothing in the archive??
[03:46] <ajmitch> because the debian maintainer would have to deal with the bugreports for unreleased otherwise
[03:46] <majic> yeah, I've been reading through it
[03:46] <ajmitch> bddebian: apt-cache showsrc xbsql kthxbye
[03:47] <gradzac> ajmitch: maybe, the code in arch would actually close a lot of the bugs open against the package in BTS
[03:47] <ajmitch> bddebian: in other words, the binary package is not named xbsql
[03:47] <ajmitch> gradzac: but it might have a lot of other bugs
[03:47] <bddebian> ajmitch: Aye, I got that, it's libxbsql0 :-)
[03:47] <gradzac> ajmitch: I doubt it, the latest code is a lot better than the packaged version
[03:48] <gradzac> either way, I have my own package that I use
[03:50] <gradzac> working your own package is also a good way to learn about how to build a package
[03:50] <ajmitch> I learnt the hard way, by trial & error :)
[03:50] <gradzac> start from someone else's example and make it into what you want
[03:57] <bddebian> Hoary doesn't have modconf?  Sounds fishy
[03:58] <ajmitch> bddebian: why would it have modconf?
[03:59] <bddebian> Why wouldn't it?  Isn't that pretty common?
[04:00] <ajmitch> I've never used it
[04:00] <ajmitch> and I think the module loading in ubuntu is different
[04:00] <bddebian> :-)
[04:00] <bddebian> Ohh
[04:02] <ajmitch> it might be useful, I don't know
[04:05] <bddebian> Fuck, I think my HD is dying in my Stinkpad.. :-(
[04:05] <ajmitch> back it up
[04:05] <ajmitch> if you can
[04:07] <schweeb> <3 my thinkpad
[04:07] <bddebian> Frickin' lame.  This is my second R31 off sleaze-bay.  This one I'm typing on has a dying AC connection.. :-(
[04:13] <bddebian> Damnit, just when I was getting going on UniverseUnmetDeps.. :'-(
[04:13] <ajmitch> bddebian: surely you've got other boxes you can use?
[04:14] <bddebian> Bah, they all run Hurd.  For about 5-10 minutes.. ;-P
[04:14] <ajmitch> eg a spare dell with a dodgy keyboard? :)
[04:14] <bddebian> Heh
[04:14] <ajmitch> might as well use that, saves you having to find a box for it
[04:14] <ajmitch> of course it might be a *little* slow for compilign
[04:15] <bddebian> I'll just "borrow" a shiny new laptop drive from work.. ;-P
[04:30] <bddebian> Yep, drive is definetely headed south... crap
[04:31] <ajmitch> save what you can
[04:31] <ajmitch> I managed to get 99.9% of the stuff of my laptop drive before it died
[04:32] <bddebian> Not sure there is anything worthwhile on it, I've mostly been packaging stuff on it :-)
[04:32] <ajmitch> only a few files lost, which were copied from my desktop anyway :)
[04:37] <ajmitch> since it's been a fairly unproductive day :)
[04:37] <bddebian> :-)
[04:53] <ajmitch> gah, we need a newer arch-buildpackage..
[04:54] <bddebian> gah, my hard drive has died.. :'-(
[04:54] <ajmitch> that's a shame
[04:54] <schweeb> time for the freezer trick
[04:55] <bddebian> The freezer trick?
[04:56] <robitaille> bddebian:  http://www.meetmyattorney.com/slink/mt-archives/000275.html
[04:59] <bddebian> heh
[04:59] <bddebian> And here I have been tapping drives with a screwdriver all this time
[05:00] <bddebian> Oh well, I guess I'm relegated back to pr0n then.. :-)
[05:00] <schweeb> I've never heard of it working like that specific incident
[05:01] <schweeb> but I've has it work first hand to get data off unbootable disks on at least 3 different occasions
[05:01] <bddebian> Nice
[05:03] <ajmitch> impressive
[05:03] <ajmitch> I'll have to try that with my next dying drive
[05:03] <bddebian> Man this really irks me.. :-(
[05:03] <whiprush> I've had it work twice, it really works
[05:04] <chillywilly> do you guys think gnome 2.12 will make it into the breezy release?
[05:04] <ajmitch> chillywilly: of course it will
[05:04] <bddebian> chillywilly: If you build it it will.. ;-P
[05:05] <ajmitch> 2.12 is released & uploaded to breezy about a day before preview release
[05:05] <chillywilly> ok
[05:05] <ajmitch> it's a definite part of the release plan
[05:05] <ajmitch> happened with warty & hoary
[05:05] <chillywilly> cool, I was just reading the pre-release tour notes
[05:06] <chillywilly> ajmitch: do you use totem with the gstreamer backend?
[05:06] <chillywilly> I have found the gstreamer backend to be subpar
[05:06] <ajmitch> nope
[05:06] <ajmitch> I don't use totem at all
[05:07] <chillywilly>  Finally, due to popular demand, audio CD copying has been added to Nautilus' CD burning functionality.
[05:07] <chillywilly> yay!
[05:07] <chillywilly> :)
[05:07] <bddebian> heh
[05:08] <bddebian> chillywilly: You are going to have to take over my tasks since my laptop has died.. ;-P
[05:08] <chillywilly> okey dokey
[05:09] <ajmitch> chillywilly: so hurry up & fix packages
[05:09] <chillywilly> bddebian task #1 - Slacking
[05:09] <ajmitch> you've got a quota to fill, you know
[05:09] <chillywilly> bddebian task #1 - IRC Harassment
[05:09] <bddebian> chillywilly: lol
[05:09] <chillywilly> erm, #2
[05:09] <chillywilly> bddebian task #3 - Sarcastic Inappropriate Jokes on #ubuntu-motu
[05:10] <ajmitch> you've already got #3 down
[05:10] <chillywilly> those truly are hard shoes to fill ;)
[05:10] <bddebian> chillywilly: moi??? :-)
[05:10] <chillywilly> ajmitch: you betcha
[05:10] <chillywilly> why do you think we get along so well :)
[05:10] <bddebian> Man, now I'm even getting lambasted by chillywilly
[05:10] <chillywilly> haha
[05:12] <ajmitch> chillywilly: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps is a good place to start working thanks
[05:12] <chillywilly> gnome 2.12 looks cool
[05:12] <bddebian> Man, am I really that annoying?
[05:12] <chillywilly> ajmitch: there's plenty of stuff I can do for work too ;)
[05:12] <ajmitch> bddebian: nope, that's just chillywilly
[05:12] <chillywilly> :-o
[05:12] <chillywilly> take that back ajmitch
[05:12] <chillywilly> geez, my internet really blows tonight
[05:12] <chillywilly> that wiki page still hasn't loaded yet
[05:12] <ajmitch> chillywilly: you may have taken it the wrong way :)
[05:12] <chillywilly> ah, silly SSL certs
[05:13] <ajmitch> I meant that you just like harassing bddebian
[05:13] <chillywilly> oh
[05:13] <chillywilly> yea, it's fun
[05:13] <ajmitch> but it doesn't get universe fixed, so get to work
[05:13] <chillywilly> so do you buil the pbuilder environment for breezy?
[05:13] <ajmitch> chillywilly: yes
[05:13] <chillywilly> alrighty then
[05:14] <ajmitch> though I often don't use pbuilder because I'm lazy
[05:14] <chillywilly> *gasp*
[05:15] <chillywilly> what's zorp bddebian ?
[05:15] <chillywilly> never heard of it ;)
[05:15] <bddebian> Me either :-)
[05:16] <ajmitch> bddebian: btw, why do you put up debdiffs for packages that only need rebuilds?
[05:16] <bddebian> Because I changed the changelog
[05:16] <ajmitch> yes, but it's just a rebuild
[05:16] <bddebian> Should I not bother?  That is why I asked earlier
[05:16] <chillywilly> last edited 2005-08-03 02:09:23 by Bddebian
[05:16] <bddebian> chillywilly: ??
[05:16] <chillywilly> uh oh...;)
[05:17] <bddebian> Oh, UniverseUnmetDeps?
[05:17] <ajmitch> well, the debdiff has far more than just changelog stuff
[05:17] <ajmitch> yes, unmet deps
[05:17] <bddebian> ajmitch: For which?
[05:17] <ajmitch> xbsql
[05:17] <ajmitch> lots of config.* junk
[05:17] <bddebian> Aye, I don't get why
[05:18] <bddebian> W00t, saved my home dir without the freezer :-)
[05:18] <ajmitch> because they get modified by the build process
[05:18] <chillywilly> bddebian: you don't have a desktop machine?
[05:19] <ajmitch> bddebian: zeiberbude should be -2ubuntu1, not -2build2
[05:19] <bddebian> chillywilly: Not for Ubuntu yet.  They are all Hurd or XP boxes :-)
[05:19] <ajmitch> since you made changes
[05:19] <bddebian> sheesh
[05:19] <chillywilly> why is the PBuilderHowTo page missing?
[05:19] <ajmitch> bddebian: also, you don't need to add build-essential to build-depends
[05:20] <ajmitch> chillywilly: case-sensitive?
[05:20] <ajmitch> PbuilderHowTo works for me
[05:20] <bddebian> ajmitch: Did I do that or was it already there?
[05:20] <chillywilly> well that's lame
[05:21] <chillywilly> hmmm, you have to register on launchpad.net?
[05:21] <ajmitch> bddebian: your debdiff has that change
[05:21] <bddebian> I don't think I would ever add a build-dep for build-essential so that sounds fishy
[05:21] <chillywilly> is launchpad.net like a authentication web service thing?
[05:21] <chillywilly> s/a/an/
[05:22] <ajmitch> bddebian: then it's probably the evil cdbs & control.in
[05:22] <ajmitch> chillywilly: launchpad is pure crack
[05:22] <chillywilly> wth does that mean?
[05:22] <bddebian> This is why I don't like debdiff
[05:22] <ajmitch> chillywilly: insanity run amok
[05:22] <ajmitch> chillywilly: it's where things like the bugtracker & various other services live
[05:22] <ajmitch> a number of which aren't live yet
[05:23] <chillywilly> ok
[05:23] <ajmitch> so yeah, I think you do need to register on launchpad, as it's the central site for everything
[05:23] <chillywilly> well I have a login already...
[05:23] <ajmitch> bddebian: I hope you don't mind me picking out these issues :)
[05:26] <robitaille> note: they had problem earlier with launchpad...so some things don't work in it for the next few hours
[05:26] <ajmitch> robitaille: wonderful news..
[05:27] <robitaille> including malone bug reports :)
[05:27] <ajmitch> I'm logged into the wiki at the moment, so I think they may have cleared up
[05:27] <ajmitch> heh
[05:27] <bddebian> ajmitch: No, I need to know
[05:27] <ajmitch> since I installed it a couple of days ago
[05:27] <bddebian> ajmitch: Can I just use diff then?
[05:28] <ajmitch> bddebian: hmm? how would diff be different from debdiff?
[05:29] <bddebian> ajmitch: I can control diff ;-P
[05:30] <chillywilly> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowTo <-- that doesn't work for me either
[05:30] <ajmitch> chillywilly: strange, what does it complain about?
[05:30] <ajmitch> since I have that page open
[05:30] <chillywilly> just says it doesn't exist basically
[05:30] <ajmitch> bddebian: can you confirm that bluez-utils is installable?
[05:31] <chillywilly> it's PbuilderHowto
[05:32] <ajmitch> oh wel
[05:33] <ajmitch> gah, you ahd to edit it while I had it open...
[05:34] <chillywilly> I've never really used a wiki much before
[05:34] <bddebian> ajmitch: Give me a sec
[05:34] <ajmitch> it means that I had to resolve conflicts
[05:35] <chillywilly> big deal
[05:35] <ajmitch> and that you ignored the warning that someone was editing it :)
[05:35] <chillywilly> wtf does it say that?
[05:36] <chillywilly> my bad
[05:36] <chillywilly> like I said I am not used to using a wiki ;)
[05:36] <bddebian> ajmitch: Yep, installs fine here
[05:37] <ajmitch> bddebian: ok, I took it off the list
[05:37] <ajmitch> might as well get the list down as small as possible
[05:37] <bddebian> Aye
[05:39] <ajmitch> ah, I see it was a suggests on bluez-firmware
[05:39] <ajmitch> we need to clear that list of junk entries
[05:41] <bddebian> SUggests shouldn't be on there?? Hmm
[05:41] <ajmitch> no, I don't think so
[05:42] <ajmitch> since it shouldn't cause issues for a user
[05:42] <bddebian> No, I mean, THEY shouldn't be.  I generated the list :-)
[05:42] <ajmitch> using what command?
[05:43] <bddebian> The one dholback posted on the wiki, plus some perl voodoo to put it in the "correct" format
[05:44] <ajmitch> which doesn't take into account depends or suggests
[05:44] <ajmitch> it just takes the whole list
[05:44] <bddebian> Hmm, it doesn -v Suggests ?
[05:44] <ajmitch> I may be wrong
[05:45] <chillywilly> do I need to build a hoary chrtto env then just change the lines to breezya dn sit-upgrade?
[05:45] <chillywilly> dist*
[05:45] <chillywilly> chroot*
[05:45] <ajmitch> I didn't see any mention of suggests on the page
[05:45] <bddebian> ajmitch: Hmm, I don't see that now that you mention it
[05:45] <ajmitch> chillywilly: that is probably a good way to do it
[05:45] <chillywilly> ok
[05:48] <chillywilly> bah
[05:50] <chillywilly> E: Failed getting release file http://archive.ubuntu.com/archive/dists/hoary/Release
[05:50] <chillywilly> pbuilder: debootstrap failed
[05:51] <ajmitch> works for me
[05:51] <chillywilly> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary/Release
[05:51] <ajmitch> perhaps you have broken intarweb
[05:51] <chillywilly> that looks to be the proper URL
[05:51] <ajmitch> ah right..
[05:51] <ajmitch> so how'd you manage to break debootstrap like that?
[05:52] <chillywilly> no clue...
[05:52] <chillywilly> didn't follow the directions properly
[05:52] <chillywilly> :)
[05:53] <chillywilly> fixed it in my pbuilderrc file
[05:53] <chillywilly> it's building now
[05:55] <chillywilly> bah, I probably need to add a universe line via the OTHERMIRROR config var
[05:55] <chillywilly> or can I just screw with the chroot env?
[05:55] <chillywilly> ah, I have all the same repo lines
[05:56] <chillywilly> duh
[06:02] <crimsun> I presume you really don't want to save the breezy dist-upgrade?
[06:02] <chillywilly> yea that would be nice ;)
[06:02] <chillywilly> so do it outside the pbuilder login crap?
[06:03] <crimsun> I don't know your intent, but I presume you know all changes made after pbuilder login are discarded.
[06:03] <chillywilly> now I know :)
[06:04] <crimsun> you need to use --override-config with an updated sources.list if you want to dist-upgrade to breezy.
[06:04] <bddebian> hehe
[06:06] <chillywilly> well, ok right now I have a haory chroot...how can I I upgrade to breezy?
[06:07] <bddebian> Replace all instances of hoary with breezy and pbuilder update --distribution breezy --override-config
[06:07] <chillywilly> ok
[06:11] <chillywilly> upgrading...
[06:11] <chillywilly> this is fun
[06:22] <chillywilly> danielb@frodo:/var/cache/pbuilder/result$ ls -l
[06:22] <chillywilly> total 248
[06:22] <chillywilly> -rw-r--r--  1 root root 107274 2005-08-02 23:22 alexandria_0.5.1-3_all.deb
[06:22] <chillywilly> that was fun I guess ;)
[06:24] <bddebian> w0000t
[06:24] <bddebian> Of course it was, you know it was :-)
[06:24] <chillywilly> well I am assuming there's a lot more involved then jsut rebuilding it straight away?
[06:24] <chillywilly> :)
[06:25] <chillywilly> like changing the package info or changelog or something
[06:25] <bddebian> Depends on what the problem is.  Many of them are just rebuilds :-)
[06:25] <chillywilly> doesn't matter that is talks about debian and unstable in the .changes file?
[06:26] <chillywilly> bittorrent outta be fun
[06:26] <chillywilly> bittornado too ;)
[06:26] <bddebian> .changes? or changelog?
[06:27] <chillywilly> .changes
[06:27] <bddebian> Hmm
[06:27] <chillywilly> when you say rebuild you mean just pulling the source straight form the breezy repo then issuing the rebuild with sudo pbuilder build whatever.dsc?
[06:28] <chillywilly> btw, I don't even see aboot or ace
[06:28] <bddebian> Well I'm a little whacky.  I usually use dpkg-buildpackage :-)
[06:28] <bddebian> even in apt-cache showsrc ?
[06:28] <chillywilly> dunno
[06:29] <chillywilly> yea it's there
[06:29] <chillywilly> heheh
[06:29] <chillywilly> I don't know all the nifty developers commands yet ;)
[06:30] <chillywilly> so you were runing breezy natively then?
[06:31] <chillywilly> ace source package is only in hoary it seems
[06:31] <bddebian> Of course :-)
[06:31] <chillywilly> well alexandria had an updated version in breezy
[06:32] <chillywilly> http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/source/ace
[06:34] <chillywilly> it's the same package in hoary and breezy
[06:34] <bddebian> Doesn't surprise me
[06:35] <chillywilly> so wht changes have you had to make to packages?
[06:35] <chillywilly> anything?
[06:35] <bddebian> Have you looked at my spot on the wiki?? :-)
[06:36] <chillywilly> your personal page or the on the unmet deps page?
[06:36] <chillywilly> one on the
[06:36] <bddebian> UnmetDeps
[06:37] <chillywilly> ic
[06:38] <chillywilly> nevermind then :)
[06:38] <bddebian> Of course ajmitch is telling me that I'm doing it all wrong :-)
[06:38] <chillywilly> oh, that's nice
[06:38] <chillywilly> what are you doing wrong?
[06:39] <bddebian> debdiffs aren't quite right.  Wrong changelog entries, etc :-)
[06:39] <chillywilly> so you never built zorp?
[06:39] <chillywilly> a bug needs to be fixed upstream?
[06:40] <chillywilly> arg
[06:40] <chillywilly> this thing failed to build :)
[06:41] <chillywilly> oh yaya
[06:41] <chillywilly> yay
[06:41] <chillywilly> c++ templates
[06:43] <bddebian> heh
[06:43] <chillywilly> basically everyone is hacking these packages so that they build with a new gcc, right?
[06:44] <bddebian> Most of that has already been done.  But some of it affected the depends
[06:44] <chillywilly> well I got a compile error when attempting to build ace
[06:44] <chillywilly> :)
[06:44] <bddebian> Anway, sorry to bail on you but I have to get to bed.  Good luck, enjoy, and welcome to the fold.. ;-)
[06:44] <chillywilly> ok
[07:02] <dabaR> hi, do you guys know if aptitude is installed on default ubuntu install?
[07:03] <ajmitch> yes, it is
[07:03] <Lathiat> dabaR: yes, its installed by ubuntu-minimal
[07:03] <dabaR> ok, cool./
[07:03] <dabaR> thanks.
[07:03] <ajmitch> heh
[10:58] <ajmitch> hi koke
[10:58] <koke> hi all! :)
[10:59] <jsgotangco> hi
[10:59] <ajmitch> hey jsgotangco
[10:59] <ajmitch> what's up?
[11:00] <jsgotangco> oh my dsl just normalized again
[11:00] <jsgotangco> after a few days of outage
[11:03] <ajmitch> I'm finally getting a dsl upgrade to 2Mbps next week
[11:04] <jsgotangco> how much would that cost?
[11:12] <ajmitch> an extra $15 NZ a month
[11:12] <ajmitch> from 256Kbps
[11:12] <ajmitch> so 8x the speed, for about 25% more
[11:14] <koke> ajmitch: which is the base price?? :)
[11:14] <ajmitch> $50 NZ a month for a dead slow connection :)
[11:15] <ajmitch> or about $30 USD, iirc
[11:15] <koke> ouch, and I thought here was bad
[11:15] <ajmitch> you think sydney was bad...? ;)
[11:15] <koke> no, Spain
[11:16] <ajmitch> yeah I know
[11:16] <ajmitch> but NZ is most similar to australia
[11:16] <ajmitch> except a few years behind :)
[11:16] <koke> now they are doubling bandwith from time to time
[11:16] <koke> I think they want to sell TV over IP
[11:16] <ajmitch> they're only increasing here because the government is putting pressure on them
[11:18] <ajmitch> so next week I might be able to download packages a bit quicker :)
[11:19] <koke> now there are offers for 4096/512 at ~ $40
[11:19] <ajmitch> we might get that in 10 years
[11:20] <koke> last year we had 256/128 for the same prce
[11:21] <ajmitch> that's what I'm currently using
[11:21] <koke> and last moths popular connections were 512/128 or 1024/300
[11:21] <koke> the upload rates are quite odd
[11:22] <koke> given that half of the people waste their bandwith with emule and other P2Ps
[11:22] <ajmitch> they've capped the upload rates very low here
[11:23] <koke> so patience for uploading packages :)
[11:24] <ajmitch> lots..
[11:24] <ajmitch> I just have to upload diffs :)
[11:33] <ajmitch> ah fun, wx2.4 transition...
[11:34] <mbreit> ajmitch: most items on that list are wx issues...
[11:36] <ajmitch> time for me to do some fixing then
[11:36] <mbreit> i am working on the unmet deps list too, but skipping the wx issues ;)
[11:37] <ajmitch> I'll attack the wx issues :)
[11:37] <mbreit> great
[11:39] <mbreit> btw: it seems that gtkmm needs a rebuild (again...)
[11:43] <\sh> mbreit: but 2.59
[11:44] <ajmitch> I should really split this gnue packaging, it's a bit ugly
[11:44] <mbreit> \sh: does not work with 2.59... gives "undefined macro: AC_Dest"
[11:44] <mbreit> google told me to use 2.52..
[11:45] <\sh> mbreit: fix it
[11:45] <\sh> 2.52 is obsolete
[11:50] <mbreit> i really hate those auto* magic...
[11:51] <\sh> mbreit: yes :) everybody
[11:52] <mbreit> btw: just if someone asks... i am mo42... just changed my nick
[12:18] <pete> good morning :)
[12:22] <mbreit> \sh: the problem seems to be in the admin/ directory copied from kde-common/admin... and has not been fixed in the kde svn..
[12:23] <mbreit> and i really do not understand the magic that they are doing there...
[12:27] <mbreit> \sh: forget what i said, seems to work now
[12:43] <ajmitch> hmm, new bochs version uploaded to sid, should I break UVF for it?
[12:43] <ajmitch> since it needs rebuilt anyway :)
[12:43] <siretart> ajmitch: does it fix any bugs? how many reverse depends does it have
[12:43] <siretart> ?
[12:44] <ajmitch> siretart: yes it fixes bugs, and it's an app, not a lib
[12:45] <ajmitch> oh, and it fixes compilation for g++ 4.0 properly :)
[12:45] <siretart> well, that I would consider important :)
[12:45] <siretart> so, go on and update it! :)
[12:47] <ajmitch> yay
[12:50] <siretart> looking at bochs changelog, we really should have it for breezy
[12:51] <ajmitch> certainly
[12:52] <ajmitch> I'm just fighting with the debian mirrors to actually give me the source
[01:13] <Mez> logjam needs a rebuild
[01:13] <Mez> (c2 transitipon
[01:13] <Mez> would do it myself, but i dont see the point if I dont have upload
[01:50] <alisher> Hello, I have a question. The new version of Lyx 1.3.6 has just been released. The version in Universe is 1.3.4 and 1.5 years old. The packages build from tarball work good, how can the new version be added to Universe?
[01:51] <ogra> alisher, if its in debian, we can easily sync it
[01:52] <alisher> I think the version in debian is also old. I used http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Linux .diff file and have all the packages working good in Ubuntu
[01:52] <ogra> if it wont enter debian in time, you have the opportunity to find a MOTU who packages and uploads it...
[01:52] <alisher> I think in Debian is same old version
[01:53] <ogra> alisher, in any case it would be nice if you could clerify for when a debian update is planned...
[01:53] <ogra> clearify even
[01:53] <ogra> ...they are probably working on a update already
[01:54] <alisher> I see. Do I have to ask at #debian-monu, or can you give me the address I have to ask at?
[01:54] <ogra> if t wont be in time, there is no problem adding it, if you either find a MOTU to help you packaging and uploading or convince hom even to do all this for you
[01:55] <ogra> alisher, the maintainer can be found in the debian package description... you can also find it in the details page if you search for lyx at packages.debian.org
[01:57] <alisher> thank you, i will go and try to ask the debian maintener
[01:58] <alisher> anyway, the packeges I compiled at Ubuntu using http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Linux .diff file work just fine
[01:58] <alisher> Thank you once more
[02:01] <ogra> alisher, does it work in a pbuilder and is it lintian clean ?
[02:01] <ogra> alisher, make sure these two things work for you...
[02:01] <ogra> then it would be ready for inclusion (after some reviews for 3 MOTUs)
[02:02] <mbreit> alisher: try to replace the xlibs-dev build-dependency
[02:03] <mbreit> it is depricated and should not be used iirc
[02:04] <ogra> Edubuntu Meeting starting in #ubuntu-meeting
[02:04] <ogra> in case someone is intereased
[02:08] <alisher> ok I will try it with lintian first
[03:46] <bddebian> Hello
[03:49] <mbreit> hi bddebian
[03:49] <bddebian> Hello mbreit
[03:59] <CarlFK> E: Build-Depends dependency for transcode cannot be satisfied because the package libdivxencore0 cannot be found - I can't find it either.  - whos problem is this?
[04:20] <bddebian> CarlFK: Is there something else that meets that?  I.E. libdivxencore0c2 or anything?  Sorry I don't have my session handy
[04:46] <siretart> a friend asks for some ubuntu banners for his website, are there any out there?
[04:50] <infinito> siretart: it's supposed that there are banners here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerBanners
[04:51] <infinito> siretart: but i think they don't work....
[04:53] <siretart> infinito: yes, they seem to be gone with the wiki move :(
[04:55] <bddebian> So fix it (tm)
[04:56] <bddebian> :-)
[04:56] <siretart> sure, can you find me the banners, then :P
[04:56] <bddebian> fng.. hehehe, good nick :-)
[04:57] <fng> thnx
[04:57] <infinito> siretart: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WebsiteButtons
[04:57] <siretart> infinito: thank you!
[04:58] <infinito> siretart: welcome!
[05:00] <infinito> just one stupid question... when do pkgs in MOTUToSync get synced?
[05:01] <CarlFK> bddebian - I can't find  libdivxencore anything
[05:01] <bddebian> CarlFK: Hmm OK.
[05:04] <bddebian> CarlFK: Man, you are right, there is nothing even related..
[05:09] <bddebian> CarlFK: There isn't even anything in Debian.  Hmm
[05:14] <incomplete> Hi, I don't know if mine is considered as an On Topic question here, tell me if it isn't:  is it possible to compile the libcairo breezy package in hoary?  i.e. adjusting the dependicies.
[05:20] <bddebian> incomplete: It is certainly "possible" but not advised
[05:21] <incomplete> bddebian, I in fact need it, as the last version.  I thought it would have been better to debianize it instead of install from the sources: .debs are easily removable.
[05:23] <incomplete> The breezy package is The Right One: 0.6.0, in this (latest as now) release they finished making changes in the API (apart from additions) until the 1.0.  I'm working on the Haskell cairo bindings and I _need_ it :-)
[05:25] <incomplete> I can't use the breezy one directly because of the libc, et all.
[05:28] <incomplete> Upgrading to breezy is also not advised, IIUC.
[05:28] <siretart> infinito: as soon as they are reviewed by daniel or oliver and forwarded to elmo
[05:28] <infinito> siretart: maybe before feature freeze?
[05:31] <siretart> preferably
[05:33] <incomplete> Any hints?
[05:34] <bddebian> incomplete: Not really unfortunately.  I'm a little new to the game myself. :-)  You could try to contact someone in the backports team but if libc is an issue, that is a biggie.
[05:34] <incomplete> I don't think it is.  It is for the breezy package because breezy itself has a new libc, but if I'm compiling it on my hoary it would not be a problem.
[05:35] <mbreit> a simple rebuild should work... but it will break all applications which are linked to cairo
[05:35] <incomplete> mbreit, there aren't many at the moment, I think.
[05:36] <incomplete> mbreit, could you please explain to me how to do the rebuild?
[05:36] <mbreit> evince as an example
[05:36] <mbreit> sure..
[05:36] <mbreit> goto some empty directory...
[05:36] <siretart> incomplete: backporting an essential lib like libcairo is not trivial. in fact doing it properly is not feasible in many cases and should generaly avoided.
[05:37] <siretart> incomplete: it would probably best if you could wait the remaining 3 months for breezy becoming stable
[05:37] <mbreit> siretart: sure, it will break existing applications which are linked to that.. but other then that?
[05:37] <incomplete> I can't, I'm doing this for the Google Summer of Code... and the deadline is 1st of September <http://haskell.org/gtk2hs/>
[05:38] <mbreit> incomplete: you could install breezy in a chroot or in vmware...
[05:39] <incomplete> hmm.
[05:39] <mbreit> i use breezy for my everyday work, it is not THAT unstable (but... unstable *g*)
[05:39] <siretart> incomplete: in your case, I would recommend installing your needed libs manually to /usr/local
[05:42] <incomplete> mbreit, how about X?
[05:42] <siretart> mbreit: is Xorg in breezy usable again? does xkb work?
[05:42] <ogra> siretart, xkb works here...
[05:42] <mbreit> yes, it is usable (apart of the missing v4l module *g*)
[05:42] <siretart> because of my thesis, I'm still on hoary, because I need a stable system
[05:43] <ogra> but it took me half a day to get a working config yesterday after the upgrade
[05:43] <mbreit> but in some cases, you have to fix something to get it running
[05:43] <ogra> i resorted to the livecd config in the end
[05:43] <incomplete> Is there a breezy livecd?
[05:44] <ogra> so dont use breezys X with nvidia card and stupid wxga lcd if you dont have a lvecd around :)
[05:44] <ogra> incomplete, i used the hoary one
[05:44] <incomplete> I'm on a laptop with nvidia card, argh :)
[05:44] <ogra> it worked out of the box at 1024x786
[05:45] <ogra> but my panel is totally blurry at this :(
[05:45] <incomplete> By the way, evince seem to run, even without the libcairo1 package.
[05:45] <mbreit> would a chroot be an option? then you can use your hoary x server but you can use all breezy libs and apps...
[05:45] <siretart> oh. hm. I would need the nvidia module, I assume that means there is no linux-restricted-modules available yet, is there?
[05:45] <incomplete> In fact it seem to not depend on cairo.
[05:46] <ogra> nope
[05:46] <ogra> siretart, nv doesnt work for you ?
[05:46] <siretart> ogra: I have a nvidia 6600 gt, I don't think so
[05:48] <incomplete> GeForce4 440 Go 64M here
[05:48] <ogra> hmm, i thought all nvidia cards should work in 2d with nv...
[05:49] <siretart> I never tried, actually. the hoary installer installed with nvidia config. that why I make that assumption
[05:49] <ogra> huh ?
[05:49] <CarlFK> bddebian - $ apt-cache policy libdivxencore0 ...  ftp://ftp.nerim.net sid/main Packages
[05:49] <ogra> never...
[05:50] <CarlFK> what is the apt/sources like to use that?
[05:50] <ogra> we dont install the nvidia module by dafault... you wont get it without explicitly installing nvidia-glx
[05:50] <bddebian> CarlFK: You got that from your Ubuntu box?
[05:51] <siretart> yes? hm. then I have to recheck
[05:51] <CarlFK> bddebian - no, I got that from an email from Christian Marillat ;)
[05:51] <siretart> maybe my memory fools me
[05:51] <bddebian> CarlFK: Ahh :-)
[05:51] <ogra> probably... else something is wrong with the installer on your CD ;)
[05:52] <siretart> hehe :=
[05:52] <siretart> ;)
[05:52] <bddebian> CarlFK: I think someone would have to bring libdivxencore0 into the archive for you to even fix that properly.  But don't quote me. :-)
[05:52] <CarlFK> bddebian - so I am guessing if I add "that" to my sources I could at least get tc to build
[05:53] <incomplete> siretart, do you think the lib will be simply removable installing in /usr/local ?  Would it be cleaner to install it (and its dependicies, maybe) in /opt ?
[05:53] <CarlFK> bddebian - trying to get it to work at all, then I will figure out how to get it to do it right
[05:53] <bddebian> CarlFK: Fair enough
[05:53] <siretart> CarlFK: you are interested in a working transcode for breezy? thats on our topic for the MOTUMedia team. you are welcome to help :)
[05:54] <CarlFK> siretart - yup.  i kinda fell into it
[05:54] <siretart> incomplete: if you install it with --prefix=/opt/libcairo/ or --prefix=/usr/local/libcairo, why not?
[05:54] <siretart> CarlFK: great!
[05:54] <incomplete> siretart, I'm wondering how would you proceed for an uninstallation, just in case.
[05:55] <siretart> incomplete: rm -rf /opt/libcairo ;)
[05:55] <CarlFK> tc is a sticky one.  the devs attitude is: you figur out what you need, then build what you need from source
[05:55] <bddebian> CarlFK: ?
[05:55] <siretart> CarlFK: I don't think that I will find time before next week to look into this. It would be a great help to know, which dependencies of trancode need to be fixed in breezy
[05:56] <incomplete> siretart, sorry, I missed the "libcairo/" part before.
[05:56] <siretart> incomplete: you may also use /opt/libcairo-<version>
[05:57] <incomplete> I'm trying, thank you very much.
[05:57] <incomplete> (You all) .-)
[06:21] <incomplete> /opt/libcairo-0.6.0/lib:
[06:21] <incomplete>         libcairo.so.1 -> libcairo.so.1.0.0
[06:21] <incomplete> Cool :)
[06:42] <siretart> incomplete: :)
[06:45] <bddebian> shiite, the MOTU meeting is at 6:00pm EDT?
[06:47] <ogra> bddebian, nope, 24:00 CEST :)
[06:48] <incomplete> siretart, do you know how to handle pkg-config well?
[06:48] <bddebian> ogra: Bah, don't confuse me, I'm confused enough :-)
[06:49] <bddebian> If it's at 6, I'm screwed :'-(
[06:50] <incomplete> siretart, nevermind, got it.
[06:56] <siretart> ok
[06:58] <CarlFK> http://paste.foxshare.net:8888/38 - Package libavifile-0.7-dev has broken dep on libavifile-0.7
[06:58] <CarlFK> um... shouldn't there be a reason why it failed?
[07:03] <siretart>     (111) Connection refused
[07:03] <siretart> CarlFK: have you checked the buildlogs?
[07:06] <CarlFK> um, what build logs?
[07:08] <siretart> see http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont
[07:08] <CarlFK> ah, those.  yes.
[07:17] <bddebian> CarlFK: Didn't I already touch that one?
[07:18] <CarlFK> bddebian - yesterdays sugestion (not sure who) was apt-get build-dep libavifile-0.7
[07:18] <CarlFK> did that, no help.
[07:20] <CarlFK> store time - be back in 20
[07:20] <bddebian> CarlFK: I meant, I thought I had that problem before recently.. I'm loosing my mind :-)
[07:27] <bddebian> Anyone here an Oracle expert? :-)
[07:31] <zAo^> how can I get Totem in my Empiphany in stead of Mplayer (Breezy)? Thanks
[07:48] <CarlFK> bddebian - any idea how you might have solved it?
[07:49] <bddebian> No, I am currently beating my head against my desk so I am useless atm.. :'-(
[07:53] <CarlFK> maybe we should do that togeter
[08:11] <bddebian> CarlFK: :-)
[08:12] <sivang> bddebian: why do you need an oracle expert?
[08:14] <bddebian> sivang: I need to find spaces in a field and remove them :)  Like s/' '// ;-P
[08:14] <sivang> bddebian: ah
[08:16] <CarlFK> bddebian - not that I am a fan of stupid field names, but it may be easier to fix the client
[08:16] <bddebian> CarlFK: It isn't my software :-)  And I'd LOVE to "fix" the user ;-)
[08:17] <CarlFK> lol
[08:17] <CarlFK> i hear ya
[08:59] <bddebian> Bah, you all suck:  "update foo set bar = REPLACE(bar, ' ', '');"
[08:59] <bddebian> :-)
[09:20] <siretart> n'evening, folks
[09:21] <bddebian> Heya siretart
[09:23] <siretart> now with korean keyboard in my laptop *g*
[09:26] <siretart> huhu dholbach!
[09:26] <dholbach> hellas
[09:26] <siretart> ooouzoo! :)
[09:32] <bddebian> Heya dholbach
[09:32] <dholbach> hey barry
[09:34] <CarlFK> bddebian - oh damm - I thought you meant spaces in the field name
[09:39] <bddebian> CarlFK: Oohh :-)
[09:43] <bddebian> So can anyone verify the meeting time in EDT for me?  Is it really 6:00pm? :-)
[09:43] <dholbach> date --utc should help you to verify
[09:43] <dholbach> :)
[09:44] <bddebian> dholbach: Yeah I tried that but I don't believe it :-)
[09:44] <dholbach> it's 0:00 for me
[09:44] <bddebian> Doh
[09:44] <dholbach> and our agenda is quite long
[09:45] <bddebian> Yeah, I noticed ;-)
[09:45] <dholbach> but that means that MOTU is active
[09:45] <dholbach> and that's what i like about it
[09:45] <bddebian> Was my item dumb?
[09:45] <bddebian> In other words, is it only me that has that problem? :-)
[09:46] <dholbach> no, not dumb at all
[09:46] <dholbach> because we have that question a lot of times
[09:46] <dholbach> i wasn't aware of build<n> until very recently
[09:46] <bddebian> OK
[09:47] <dholbach> but we have a policy there already - we just need a very prominent place to get it out to the people :)
[09:47] <bddebian> Ohh
[09:47] <dholbach> so let's assume there's a debian version 1.2.3-4 and you add a fix to it
[09:48] <dholbach> then you call it 1.2.3-4ubuntu1 - so you will be reminded to merge it, when there's 1.2.3-5 or 1.2.4-1 in Debian
[09:48] <bddebian> Describe "fix" :-)
[09:48] <dholbach> if you just rebuild it for one reason or the other, you call id 1.2.3-4build1
[09:48] <bddebian> OK
[09:48] <dholbach> if you rebuild it again 1.2.3-4build2
[09:49] <dholbach> which will sync the new version and won't remind you to sync :)
[09:49] <dholbach> if you have 1.2.3-4build2 in ubuntu and add a fix, you get 1.2.3-4ubuntu1 :)
[09:49] <dholbach> did that make it clearer?
[09:50] <bddebian> Well after several trials and errors, I think I got that much.  Thanks. :-)
[09:51] <dholbach> i don't know if there are any other special cases
[09:51] <ogra> btw you could also call it 1.2.3-4shnubbel1 there was no real naming convention, the only important fact is that it shouldnt be -XubuntuX because the merge scripts react on that
[09:51] <dholbach> bddebian: trust me, i did quite a lot wrong on the way :)
[09:51] <ogra> we all did :)
[09:52] <ogra> we are HUMAN !
[09:52] <dholbach> bddebian: one day i got a version completely wrong, so i'd have to add an epoch - which is bad and breaks sync-ability from debian :)
[09:52] <bddebian> OK, I will start calling all my reuilds XfubarX ;-P
[09:52] <dholbach> i moaned and cried on #ubuntu-devel and elmo managed to remove it, before it got processed
[09:53] <dholbach> :-)
[09:53] <ogra> wouldnt have been *this* worse, you only had to care for the package until debian adds a epoch themselves :-p
[09:54] <dholbach> super :)
[09:54] <bddebian> Well take it off the agenda then.  Thanks.
[09:54] <ogra> dholbach, your baobab sync ftbfs with strange errors
[09:54] <dholbach> oh
[09:54] <dholbach> nice
[09:55] <ogra> everywhere but on i386
[09:55] <ogra> (works fine in my pbuilder, just checked
[09:55] <ogra> )
[09:57] <bddebian> Heya majic
[09:58] <majic> hello there
[10:00] <dholbach> ouch
[10:00] <dholbach> debian/rules is wrong
[10:00] <dholbach> completely
[10:01] <dholbach> people should use cdbs - it figures that kind of stuff out for them :)
[10:01] <bddebian> How about a different phrased question.  Meeting is in 2 hours? ;-P
[10:01] <dholbach> yes, bddebian  :)
[10:01] <bddebian> Heh. gotcha. :)
[10:01] <bddebian> Thx dholbach
[10:01] <dholbach> de rien
[10:02] <jbailey> dholbach: Your french is getting better. =)
[10:02] <bddebian> What did you call me?
[10:02] <bddebian> ;-)
[10:02] <jbailey> bddebian: Yours is apparently not ;)
[10:02] <dholbach> jbailey: you should have heard seb128 about my french
[10:02] <dholbach> something about "barely understandable"
[10:02] <jbailey> Ah.  Maybe you were speakig Canadian French. =)
[10:03] <dholbach> i was talking garbled-up french :)
[10:03] <dholbach> that's one of my specialties
[10:03] <jbailey> Hmm.  I want my keyboard accents back.
[10:03] <bddebian> jbailey: I can't speak French, I'm American.. ;-P
[10:07] <bddebian> OK, I'm heading home.  Hopefully I'll make it home in time for the meeting.  Later gang.
[10:25] <Burgundavia> ogra, ping
[10:25] <ogra> Burgundavia,
[10:25] <ogra> po
[10:25] <ogra> ng
[10:25] <ogra> or pong even
[10:25] <Burgundavia> edubuntu main inclusion reports
[10:25] <ogra> yeah, do you still want to go on with them ?
[10:25] <Burgundavia> shall we discuss in #edubuntu?
[10:26] <ogra> yup
[10:27] <\sh> *yawn*
[10:29] <siretart> hi \sh
[10:29] <\sh> evening gentlemen
[10:29] <dholbach> hellas stephan
[10:30] <\sh> hey daniel :)
[10:30] <\sh> robitaille: ping
[10:31] <\sh> dholbach: time on saturday for a beer? duesseldorf-benrath -> bierboerse ,-)
[10:31] <dholbach> \sh: absolutely not, sorry :-(
[10:32] <\sh> so I have to drink a beer for every member of the MOTU team...for dholbach and ogra I have to drink 2
[10:32] <dholbach> seems to :)
[10:33] <\sh> will be fun
[10:33] <\sh> hehe ;)
[10:33] <\sh> wow...the points on the agenda
[10:34] <robitaille> \sh: pong
[10:34] <\sh> robitaille: should we stick your topic to the taskforce groups as well? fixing malone bugs is also a big task
[10:35] <ajmitch> morning
[10:35] <dholbach> hey ajmitch :)
[10:35] <\sh> ajmitch: hey how r u doing?
[10:35] <ajmitch> just crawled out of bed, of course ;0
[10:36] <\sh> ajmitch: me too ;)
[10:36] <robitaille> \sh: doesn't matter with me where it is on the agenda.  I just want to know what the motu team wants to do with all these bugs in Malone
[10:36] <\sh> robitaille: fixing in any way ,)
[10:37] <\sh> dholbach: can u put me into the MOTU team on launchpad
[10:38] <dholbach> erm
[10:38] <ajmitch> any of us can
[10:38] <dholbach> i'm not sure, that i'm its "leader"
[10:38] <\sh> oh it's oliver
[10:38] <ajmitch> dholbach: we're all administrators in the team
[10:38] <\sh> ok...I just clicked join...
[10:40] <\sh> ajmitch: add me then ;)
[10:40] <ajmitch> \sh: I don't see your name anywhere :)
[10:41] <\sh> launchpad name: sh-sourcecode
[10:43] <ogra> checking for Win32 platform in general... no
[10:43] <ogra> checking for gnuchess... no
[10:43] <ogra> configure: error: Couldn't find gnuchess
[10:43] <ogra> ./configure: line 24841: exit: please: numeric argument required
[10:44] <ajmitch> Stephan Hermann (sh-sourcecode) was added as a member of MOTU.
[10:44] <\sh> ajmitch: thx :)
[10:44] <\sh> robitaille: now u can assign all the bugs to motu team *eg*
[10:44] <ajmitch> hehe
[10:45] <\sh> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CxxLibraryResync
[10:45] <\sh> please have a look on this list :)
[10:45] <ajmitch> ogra: hmm, do you have to set \sh as admin? it says that I can but gives me no way to do so :)
[10:45] <siretart> oh, could anyone add me to the motu team, too? ;)
[10:45] <ajmitch> \sh: looked at it last night
[10:45] <ajmitch> siretart: if you ask really nicely
[10:45] <siretart> please, please pretty please :)
[10:45] <ogra> ajmitch, no idea, i'll look at it
[10:45] <ajmitch> & forward some $$ to my bank account :)
[10:46] <siretart> hehe
[10:48] <ajmitch>  Reinhard Tartler (siretart) was added as a member of MOTU.
[10:49] <siretart> thanks! :)
[10:49] <\sh> ajmitch: can u put my name in the middle of the members list? I don't like to be on top ,-)
[10:50] <ajmitch> \sh: complain to the launchpad hackers
[10:50] <\sh> well...the team lead must always be on top
[10:51] <ajmitch> since I did an upload with unstable in the changelog, then with breezy 2 min later ;)
[10:53] <ajmitch> yay, jbailey uploaded bzr
[10:53] <jbailey> ajmitch: Stalker.
[10:53] <\sh> ajmitch: source uploads?
[10:53] <ajmitch> \sh: of course
[10:53] <\sh> hmmm
[10:53] <ajmitch> jbailey: I read breezy-changes
[10:54] <ajmitch> jbailey: stalking is me using your daily builds as well :)
[10:54] <\sh> and very good...xfce4 is in
[11:01] <herzi> dholbach: ping
[11:01] <dholbach> herzi: opng
[11:01] <dholbach> pong
[11:01] <herzi> dholbach: may i wish an ubuntu package?
[11:01] <herzi> http://live.gnome.org/Istanbul
[11:02] <dholbach> herzi: i'm working on it and it's still in the review queue
[11:02] <herzi> you've got preview packages?
[11:02] <dholbach> the new utspream version has some trouble also and the cvs version's buildsystem is fucked up
[11:02] <dholbach> it's on http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/index.py
[11:03] <ajmitch> we need to get that queue smaller :)
[11:03] <ajmitch> dholbach: when's the next review day planned for?
[11:03] <dholbach> you will have to make the date without me
[11:03] <ajmitch> :'(
[11:03] <ajmitch> 2 weeks from now?
[11:03] <dholbach> i'll be available from 05. sept. on again
[11:04] <dholbach> add it to the agenda
[11:04] <ajmitch> how about a review day every 2-3 weeks?
[11:04] <dholbach> we need review days every day
[11:04] <ajmitch> yeah
[11:04] <dholbach> the review days nowadays are just to catch up
[11:04] <dholbach> training new MOTUs is WAY important
[11:05] <herzi> dholbach: try once a week (every eight days), so others can joind more easily
[11:05] <dholbach> herzi: we could do that
[11:05] <dholbach> herzi: but for me in a month :)
[11:05] <ajmitch> it's on the agenda
[11:06] <\sh> and I'm burned out.
[11:06] <herzi> search for "gnome bug day" and you'll get an example of a working thing
[11:06] <\sh> herzi: we have bug days
[11:06] <ajmitch> \sh: we can pick up from here :)
[11:07] <ajmitch> but there are enough of us around now to do something useful
[11:07] <\sh> right now, we have a lot to do in the office..and it's no fun to get up in the night and doing some stuff on DTV hardware :( it's a mess
[11:08] <\sh> it looks like that the shareware versions of the SA kryptons is running out :(
[11:08] <\sh> s/is/are/
[11:09] <\sh> when I'm older I'll write a book about the digital tv cable provider business...yes
[11:10] <ajmitch> eevil
[11:11] <ajmitch> time to beat around the debian maintainer of gnue-forms, what an idiot..
[11:11] <dholbach> ajmitch: don't be too hard with him :-p
[11:12] <ajmitch> dholbach: I'll bring him back in good enough shape to handle UnmetDeps ;)
[11:12] <dholbach> hehe
[11:22] <ogra> ajmitch, erm, what had to be done for audacity ? i run it fine since it built on the new wx lib
[11:22] <ogra> i.e. since the weekend
[11:23] <majic> what is the preferred method of building packages? I've been playing around with pbuilder.
[11:23] <ogra> pbuilder is right...
[11:23] <ogra> and if you want, a chroot for testing the binary
[11:24] <majic> so does pbuilder create a chroot for itself (for building purposes?)
[11:24] <\sh> yes
[11:24] <\sh> and it cleans itself after build
[11:24] <siretart> majic: yes. it keeps a base tarball with the chroot and build the package inside that chroot
[11:25] <\sh> and have all fetched packages in the right cache
[11:25] <siretart> majic: that way you always have a 'clean' chroot
[11:25] <majic> the tutorial on the ubuntu website for pbuilder mentions doing a "pbuilder update" after each build. Is this needed?
[11:25] <siretart> \sh: :)
[11:26] <siretart> majic: pbuilder update updates that base tarball.
[11:26] <siretart> majic: you need it for keeping the packages inside your chroot up to date. once a day should really be sufficent
[11:26] <dholbach> majic: not really, but if you do regular updates, you'll see when you need it (new gcc or new xlibs, whatever you might want to have for your package)
[11:26] <majic> ok
[11:26] <janimonoses> any of you using the regular apt cache for pbuilder as well?
[11:28] <dholbach> janimonoses: no, sorry
[11:29] <janimonoses> hmm, that's why I keep postponing pbuilder :) It wants to dl too much
[11:30] <\sh> hmmm...anyone tried to build some wx2.4 build-dep apps with wx2.6?
[11:30] <ogra> janimonoses, use --aptcacache ;) (man pbuilder)
[11:30] <janimonoses> ogra, I think I tried but it still wanted to go on the net
[11:30] <janimonoses> I'll retry
[11:31] <ogra> \sh, that cant work... its a different api afaik
[11:31] <dholbach> Riddell: umbrello is making fun of me!
[11:31] <ogra> janimonoses, it must got on the net for stuff thats not in the cache
[11:31] <ajmitch> ogra: as you can see I just uploaded a rebuild for audacity
[11:32] <dholbach> Riddell: whatever i do, it refuses to draw straight, orthogonal lines in the .eps :)
[11:32] <janimonoses> anybody seen an error like pkg-config failing in a build on the servers even though the package is installed as required in the BD?
[11:32] <\sh> ogra: the last xchm merge was for 2.6 and actually I changed it to use 2.4 and it worked...so it should be downward compatible
[11:32] <ogra> ajmitch, but the former version was fine, thats why i'm asking
[11:32] <ajmitch> ogra: not for me - it ran fine until I tried to install it :)
[11:32] <ogra> ajmitch, i'm running it here since monday
[11:32] <\sh> and now I can upload xchm with 2.6 build-deps ,-)
[11:32] <dholbach> Riddell: forget what i said - i tricked it :)
[11:33] <ajmitch> ogra: libwxgtk2.4c2 became libwxgtk2.4-1
[11:33] <ajmitch> so it needed a rebuild
[11:33] <ajmitch> the SONAME change happened on the 19th, last audacity build was before then
[11:33] <ogra> ajmitch, yes, but it already was rebuilt i think... it wasnt installable on friday here, but on monday it was
[11:34] <\sh> ajmitch: why that?
[11:34] <ajmitch> on my up-to-date chroot it showed a depends on libwxgtk2.4c2
[11:34] <ajmitch> \sh: hmm?
[11:34] <\sh> also no C++ exported stuff?
[11:34] <\sh> ajmitch: 23:33 < ajmitch> ogra: libwxgtk2.4c2 became libwxgtk2.4-1
[11:34] <ajmitch> \sh: ask the debian maintainer or doko for that one :)
[11:35] <ajmitch> doko's been handling the wx packages
[11:35] <ogra> ajmitch, audacity (1.2.3-1build1) breezy; urgency=low
[11:35] <ogra>   * Rebuild for new C++ ABI
[11:35] <ogra>  -- Matthias Klose <doko@ubuntu.com>  Tue,  7 Jun 2005 14:18:46 +0000
[11:35] <ajmitch> ogra: yes, and the SONAME changed since then
[11:35] <ajmitch> so it needed another rebuild
[11:36] <\sh> ajmitch: yes I read the changelog...was synced back from debian
[11:36] <ogra> that rebuild was eternally waiting on the buildd until the new wx was available
[11:36] <\sh> ogra: forget those...I think we have to rebuild some of dokos rebuild again
[11:36] <ajmitch> \sh: we do, that's what I'm doing
[11:37] <\sh> hmmm..I wonder if elmo merged my key for main...lets try again ,-)
[11:37] <ajmitch> ogra: the audacity rebuild binary was available for me
[11:37] <ogra>  \sh  i'm just a bit worried, i have to demote audacity to main... as well as the other edubuntu stuff
[11:37] <ajmitch> ogra: why?
[11:37] <ajmitch> ogra: -1build1 is on the mirrors, so it must have built fine
[11:37] <ogra> because its in the default install of edubuntu-desktop
[11:37] <ogra> ajmitch, it has
[11:38] <ajmitch> so that's why you're grilling me over that :)
[11:38] <\sh> ogra: so...it's depending on 2.4? did u ever try it with 2.6?
[11:38] <ajmitch> ogra: I tested this in a chroot yesterday, audacity was not installable due to a depends on libwxgtk2.4c2
[11:38] <Riddell> dholbach: hmm?
[11:38] <ajmitch> which means that it built after the C++ transition, and before the next SONAME change
[11:39] <ogra> ajmitch, hmm, i installed it fine here n monday, as i said... but didnt try on x86....
[11:39] <ogra> ajmitch, its ok...
[11:39] <dholbach> Riddell: forget it :) since i just learnt about umbrello and you maintaining it, i wanted to share my disgruntlement - it's alright again :)))
[11:39] <ajmitch> ogra: so you can trust that I did the right thing? ;)
[11:41] <dholbach> Riddell: it worked better for me than all it's uml-contestants :)
[11:41] <Riddell> woo :)
[11:42] <dholbach> Riddell: i should have noted the bugs down... :)
[11:42] <dholbach> Riddell: but i think i still have some diagrams to do :)
[11:42] <Riddell> bugs in umbrello??  surly not
[11:42] <dholbach> haha
[11:42] <janimonoses> what is the deal with pbuilder and unauthenticated packages?Why aren't all those tweaks already part of a default pbuilder install?
[11:42] <dholbach> of course
[11:43] <dholbach> where is tritium when you need him
[11:43] <ajmitch> janimonoses: because pbuilder just uses debootstrap - I think a new version from debian might fix it
[11:43] <\sh> ogra: I'm trying audacity with 2.6
[11:43] <dholbach> latex experts - stick your hand up! :)
[11:43] <\sh> looks good until now
[11:43] <ogra> \sh, wont work... but there is a port going on
[11:43] <janimonoses> ajmitch, a sync from debian now or a future version?
[11:43] <ogra> in case they didnt merge the two
[11:44] <\sh> ogra: BlockFile.cpp:466: error: ambiguous overload for 'operator+' in 'wxFileName::GetFullPath(wxPathFormat) const(wxPATH_NATIVE) + ".auf"'
[11:44] <mbreit> dholbach: i am writing a latex editor for gnome, but that makes no latex expert out of me
[11:44] <ajmitch> janimonoses: looks like breezy has the latest version :(
[11:44] <janimonoses> dholbach, UML and latex?diplomarbeit ? ;)
[11:44] <ajmitch> \sh: I've had issues trying to get stuff working on 2.6 that was designed for 2.4
[11:44] <dholbach> janimonoses: yeah :)
[11:44] <janimonoses> rock on!
[11:45] <\sh> ajmitch: yeah somethings changed...
[11:45] <ogra> \sh, yep... look at the audacity homepage... there is a port going on... i dont know the current status
[11:45] <dholbach> mbreit: i was looking for rotating and searched horizontal and vertical and whatever before :)
[11:45] <\sh> let me have a look on those little bastards ,)
[11:45] <ajmitch> \sh: eg my python packages really don't like wx 2.6 :)
[11:45] <dholbach> mbreit: texdoctk was my friend after all, thanks :)
[11:45] <\sh> ajmitch: hmmm...new bindings?
[11:45] <ajmitch> and I'm not brave enough to dig in, so I've harassed upstream instead ;)
[11:45] <dholbach> mbreit: cool to hear that - do you have some screenshots already?
[11:45] <ajmitch> \sh: wx has always been a problem :)
[11:45] <\sh> ajmitch: that will be fun with sip4 and qt4 ,-)
[11:46] <ajmitch> of course
[11:47] <\sh> ajmitch: but this boa constructor was mentioned as a cool python IDE *hides*
[11:47] <ajmitch> \sh: use 0.4.0 from experimental, I noted it in the bugreport on the merge page
[11:47] <ajmitch> it's one that needs synced :)
[11:48] <mbreit> dholbach: there is not (yet) much to see, and we (slomo and i) have no time atm because of exams at university... but in a few weeks we will continue to work on that...
[11:48] <\sh> ajmitch: forget it ;) I've got problems with yehia and gtk-gnutella...i don't like this gtk stuff at all..it's a secret to me ;)
[11:49] <dholbach> mbreit: that sounds excellent
[11:49] <ajmitch> \sh: ok I'll handle the wx evil ;)
[11:50] <\sh> mbreit: ah...slomo...greetings to him :) so when we will see u as motu?
[11:51] <\sh> ajmitch: can u have a look on yehia?
[11:51] <ajmitch> \sh: how bad is it?
[11:51] <\sh> ajmitch: it's a lib from cxx trans
[11:51] <\sh> ajmitch: truth or a lie?
[11:51] <dholbach> we're 9 minutes before the meeting
[11:51] <ajmitch> tell me the whole truth
[11:52] <\sh> ajmitch: bad as hell...at least more bad then hell
[11:52] <mbreit> \sh: he is on holiday atm, so i will tell him when he's back ;)
[11:52] <\sh> mbreit: so when we will see u as motu?
[11:52] <ajmitch> \sh: c++ mess?
[11:52] <dholbach> hey sistpoty - nice to see you
[11:52] <mbreit> well, that does not depend on me ;)
[11:52] <sistpoty> hi dholbach
[11:52] <siretart> huhu sistpoty
[11:52] <sistpoty> hi siretart
[11:53] <\sh> ajmitch: wrong void usage ;)
[11:53] <\sh> ajmitch: but I don't see the light in there...it's a bloody overloaded function
[11:53] <ajmitch> \sh: I'm not a C++ expert, sadly
[11:53] <ajmitch> I can take a look & beat my head against it :)
[11:54] <\sh> ajmitch: i can send u a first patch to fix the easy issues ,-)
[11:54] <mbreit> \sh: i think i should do some more motu work before talking about me becoming a motu...
[11:54] <ajmitch> it doesn't help that there's been no debian upload for ~2 years
[11:54] <dholbach> mbreit: you'll be fine soon :)
[11:54] <\sh> mbreit: sure...help us with everything...and learn from slomo ,-)
[11:54] <mbreit> btw: i just uploaded a new gnomemeeting package to revu... please review ;))
[11:54] <\sh> ajmitch: *nod*
[11:55] <\sh> oh...
[11:55] <ajmitch> hi bddebian
[11:55] <\sh> gnomemeeting is in main?
[11:55] <mbreit> oh no..
[11:55] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[11:55] <mbreit> i meant gnomeradio of cause
[11:55] <\sh> ah ;)
[11:55] <siretart> mbreit: reviews are on the topic of our meeting starting in 5 minutes. don't you want to join, too?
[11:56] <\sh> mbreit: u r welcome to attend :)
[11:56] <mbreit> yes, i have planned to do that ;)
[11:56] <mbreit> thanks!
[11:56] <siretart> :)
[11:56] <mbreit> is the meeting in #ubuntu-meeting?
[11:56] <\sh> yep
[11:56] <dholbach> yep
[11:57] <ajmitch> so it'll hopefully get quiet in here for a bit :)
[11:57] <mbreit> ;)
[11:57] <\sh> meeting is starting in -3
[11:59] <\sh> -1
[11:59] <bddebian> \sh, the timekeeper :-)
[12:00] <siretart> now! :)
[12:04] <sistpoty2> gna... 24h disconnect :(