[12:10] dholbach: thanks. which part? :) [12:11] the .ics part this time :) [12:11] dholbach, could you review my gnomeradio package on revu? just if/when you have some time left... [12:12] Mo42: i'm completely out of time, but i'll give it a look later, alright? === thoreauputic_ [~prospero@wolax6-229.dialup.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === highvolt1ge [~Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:37] now mo42's away [12:37] hrbml === Arr0gance [~aks@ottawa-hs-64-26-170-176.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:38] dholbach, how up to date are you currently ? [12:38] dholbach, my firefox crashes constantly if i go back... [12:38] i don't have the newest one [12:38] just a sec [12:38] hmm, keep the old one around :) [12:39] i still have the source around because i compiled it with debugging symbols :) [12:39] ah, great [12:40] upgrade.... :) === ajmitch is ready to kill his work computer :) [12:42] ouch, why that? [12:43] ogra: seems ok [12:43] although i'm inclined to say, i like epiphany much better by now [12:44] dholbach: win XP [12:44] dholbach, hmm, strange... i cant read a heise article and go back... === ajmitch has been using galeon a lot [12:44] ajmitch: good point [12:44] dholbach: been using firefox, it's using a fair bit of memory on windows [12:44] and windows *really* can't handle it :) [12:45] ogra: heise works fine for me [12:45] dholbach, with back button/alt-left ? [12:46] yep [12:46] works nicely [12:46] ok pals, i'm off to bed - see you around [12:47] bye dholbach [12:47] bye dholbach [12:47] gn8 dholbach [12:47] :) [12:47] ciao dholbach === sistpoty needs some sleep as well... gn8 === ajmitch wonders at the usefulness of rss feeds :) === terrex [~terrex@84-122-73-155.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:51] doesn't gmane already provide them? [12:52] ajmitch, Seveas says he only parses the changelog and discards the rest [12:52] ogra: could be useful [12:52] the changelog is the most entertaining part [12:52] gmane shows tha whole changes mail [12:52] the even [12:52] especially with daniels :) [12:52] ajmitch, I'm currently working on prettifying it a bit [12:52] grimpf... i cursed daniels a lot today [12:53] hehe [12:53] Seveas, http://www.wiggy.net/presentations/2001/DebianWalkThrough/handouts/handouts.html#AEN305 [12:53] ogra: 1024x768 doesn't resize well on your screen? :) [12:53] ogra, found the spec already [12:53] but thanks :) [12:53] i guess its also in the debian NM guide anywhere [12:53] ajmitch, nope... [12:54] ajmitch, its stretched and horribly blurry... after 10min i get a headache [12:54] dpkg-parsechangelog might spit out something remotely useful for you === ajmitch hasn't restarted his X server for a couple of months now [12:55] http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/ might be useful too :) [12:55] true === macgyver2 [~macgyver2@macgyver2.user] has joined #ubuntu-motu === edc [~noirrac@tpc-ip-nas-1-p88.telkom-ipnet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:35] all true [01:35] but i'm using the mail to update automatically :) === highvoltage [~Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:36] and the mails have a soewhat different format then the official changelog format [01:36] anywho, I've prettified them [01:36] even with correct spacing in the xml and html :) === lsuactiafner [~noirrac@tpc-ip-nas-1-p88.telkom-ipnet.co.za] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === bddebian [~bddebian@pcp08717033pcs.phnixv01.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === macgyver2 [~macgyver2@macgyver2.user] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:44] Dang where is everyone? [02:49] right here [02:49] hello bddebian === highvolt1ge [~Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jaldhar [~jaldhar@pcp09354467pcs.jersyc01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:52] Heya majic [02:54] how are ya? [02:54] Fair to midland. You? [02:57] doing good... Just drank a pot of coffee... Now I'm bouncing off the walls [02:58] heh [02:58] hello bddebian, majic [02:59] what's up ajmitch? [02:59] just had lunch :) [02:59] Heya ajmitch [02:59] feeling somewhat closer to alive [02:59] OK, where the hell is pxscan? [03:00] firstly, what is pxscan? [03:00] I don't have a clue but yaprimaxgui depends on it :-) [03:02] scanner utils === ajmitch looks in non-free/contrib [03:03] lamezor [03:03] Debian doesn't have it either [03:04] so fix it :) [03:04] But non-free/contrib would have to go in Multiverse right? [03:04] sure [03:04] but it's not in debian [03:05] Isn't it odd that a package in Universe would depend on something from Multiverse? [03:05] it's not in multiverse... [03:05] it's not in the archive at all [03:05] I know but if it was it would go into Multiverse wouldn't it? === ajmitch sighs [03:06] only *if* it were in non-free or contrib [03:06] I thought that is where you said you found it?? [03:07] no, I didn't say I found them at all [03:07] I said I was looking for them [03:08] Oh, well you said scanner utils then "looks in..." so I thought that's where you found it. SORRY.. Sheesh :-) [03:09] ok, so it's crack that was imported from apt-get.org only just before hoary released [03:09] http://www.stuff.demon.co.uk/apt/source/ [03:09] anyone else using network-manager on breezy? [03:09] mine's borked I think [03:09] hi everyone [03:10] ie someone ran dh_make, tweaked some compile flags & put up a package [03:10] schweeb: I've not used it [03:10] Hello gradzac, schweeb [03:11] ajmitch: Ahh, OK, thanks [03:11] schweeb: is the network manager in breezy still gnome-system-tools? [03:12] OK, I'm not doing as well on UniverseUnmetDeps as I did on Merge stuff :'-( [03:12] gradzac: I'm talking about real network-manager [03:13] bddebian: you've done more than me === jamessan|laptop [~jamessan@c-24-218-220-129.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:13] ajmitch: Yeah, but I'll never be as sexy as you.. ;-) [03:14] anyone know if the backported Ruby package is the same as the breezy package? I mean same version. That is probably a dumb question. === ajmitch sighs [03:14] majic: it ought to be [03:15] ok, because that version is a 1.9pre [03:15] which doesn't make alot of sense either [03:15] we go from a broken 1.8pre to a broken 1.9pre [03:15] hehe [03:15] majic: I don't know the ruby situation, I just heard that people were going to backport it [03:15] ajmitch: What's the sigh for this time? :-) [03:16] I don't see a ruby 1.9 in breezy [03:16] the latest stable is 1.8.2, I'm gonna have to roll my own if it's going to be the 1.9pre build [03:16] ajmitch, it's there, I downloaded that package and built it yesterday. It says 1.8.2 but it's really a 1.9 pre [03:16] so file a bug [03:17] ruby is in main, so we can't do anything with it [03:17] bddebian: you :P [03:17] ajmitch: Can I ask you a question without you sighing at me? :-) [03:17] if it's a 1.9 pre like the package I built yesterday I am gonna cry [03:17] I don't understand who made that decision [03:17] bddebian: depends on the question [03:18] majic: the debian maintainer, I'd say [03:18] that baffles me [03:18] hmm, perhaps not [03:18] why are we including pre release stuff in major releases of a distro? [03:18] ajmitch: I don't get how Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends} work [03:18] and then code freezing it so it cannot be fixed [03:19] I just started with debian packaging yesterday so I don't have the experience to fix the problem. It seems like I'm bitching but I'm not really. I'm fighting for the Ruby developers that want to use Ubuntu like me. [03:19] but want to maintain package integrity [03:20] majic: as I said, the MOTUs are not the ones to complain to [03:20] bddebian: debhelper voodoo [03:20] alright =) [03:22] ruby --version says 1.8.3 for me [03:23] the changes are listed in /usr/share/doc/ruby1.8/changelog.Debian.gz [03:24] which says that the updates from 1.8.2 are just for critical bugs === poningru [~poningru@pool-68-238-171-180.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:24] bddebian: what do you not understand about those items? [03:25] ajmitch: How they get resolved [03:25] right 1.8.3 (my bad) [03:25] but there is no 1.8.3 [03:25] unless they are grabbing from CVS [03:25] majic: read the changelog [03:26] If there is already an ubuntuX version and I am just rebuilding should I increment the ubuntu version or no? [03:26] it says, critical fixes from cvs [03:26] bddebian: yes, increment [03:26] Thank you [03:26] I don't see the change log, is that in the diff? === ogra [~ogra@p5089E792.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:27] ok [03:27] majic: I gave the changelog path above for an installed package [03:27] hi ogra [03:28] ah, I don't have it installed anymore. I'm looking at the source package stuff [03:28] but I have one question [03:28] then look in the diff, it's debian/changelog [03:29] since there is no sanctioned endorsed 1.8.3 package on the official website for Ruby, who's responsibility is it to update the software? Distro developers or the developers of the actual software. [03:29] ajmitch, did. I see =) [03:29] I'd say the latter [03:29] but would seem to not be the case [03:31] it would seem to me that the distro developers are taking it upon themselves to patch software as they see fit rather than working with the authors to have them officially fixed. Is this the case? It appears like that from the Ruby package that's currently in Breezy [03:31] majic: they are officially fixed, of course [03:31] the fixes weren't pulled from nowhere, but from ruby cvs [03:32] by the debian maintainer [03:32] right but why are they doing that? [03:32] if the CVS code was finished it'd be an official 1.8.3 package [03:32] ask the debian maintainer, I don't know why he chose to do it that way [03:32] is that standard policy? [03:32] my crystal ball seems to be acting up today [03:33] I mean is that normally the case with packaging software for debian / ubuntu? [03:33] it is up to the maintainer's discretion [03:33] ok [03:33] since every upstream is different === NigelS [nigel@83.166.160.96] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:34] alrighty. I'll just forget about it and be happy [03:36] So if I post a rebuilt package for an MOTU to look at should I just host the debdiff or everything? [03:38] majic: its up to the maintainer, but the debian maintainers I have talked with usually only package released software [03:39] is Breezy frozen now? [03:39] majic: upstream version freeze, yes [03:39] they might build a new package with patches needed to close bugs on debian [03:39] feature freeze is on the 11th [03:39] exceptions can be made for UVF [03:40] gradzac: when it comes to critical fixes, some developers might just update to the latest cvs, rather than try & backport the fixes [03:40] so if Breezy currently has a pre-release version of Ruby, will that mean that it cannot be updated to a final release? supposing there was alot more work to be done on it? [03:41] majic: depends on bugs [03:41] ajmitch: true, some do that [03:41] if you want the latest just because you're uncomfortable with having a prerelease, then that's probably not adequate justification for breaking the freeze [03:42] but if the prerelease has real issues, then sure [03:42] ok, I'm just trying to understand the process =) [03:42] no problem [03:42] majic: you could always maintain your own ruby package seperate from the distribution that has the features you want [03:42] I do that for a debian package that I use [03:43] gradzac, yeah. Hehe once I get up to speed on packaging =) [03:43] gradzac: which one is that? [03:45] ajmitch: madman, the version in debian is old and the arch version has a lot of new features. The debian maintainer only wants to release a new package when the upstream releases. [03:45] right [03:45] majic: debian new maintainers guide is a great place to start [03:45] How the hell did xbsql end up in my unmet dep output when there is nothing in the archive?? [03:46] because the debian maintainer would have to deal with the bugreports for unreleased otherwise [03:46] yeah, I've been reading through it [03:46] bddebian: apt-cache showsrc xbsql kthxbye [03:47] ajmitch: maybe, the code in arch would actually close a lot of the bugs open against the package in BTS [03:47] bddebian: in other words, the binary package is not named xbsql [03:47] gradzac: but it might have a lot of other bugs [03:47] ajmitch: Aye, I got that, it's libxbsql0 :-) [03:47] ajmitch: I doubt it, the latest code is a lot better than the packaged version [03:48] either way, I have my own package that I use === ajmitch should roll some pre-release packages this week for testing === bddebian should roll a joint for better packaging sk1llz :-) [03:50] working your own package is also a good way to learn about how to build a package [03:50] I learnt the hard way, by trial & error :) [03:50] start from someone else's example and make it into what you want [03:57] Hoary doesn't have modconf? Sounds fishy [03:58] bddebian: why would it have modconf? [03:59] Why wouldn't it? Isn't that pretty common? [04:00] I've never used it [04:00] and I think the module loading in ubuntu is different [04:00] :-) [04:00] Ohh === highvoltage [~Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:02] it might be useful, I don't know [04:05] Fuck, I think my HD is dying in my Stinkpad.. :-( [04:05] back it up [04:05] if you can [04:07] <3 my thinkpad [04:07] Frickin' lame. This is my second R31 off sleaze-bay. This one I'm typing on has a dying AC connection.. :-( [04:13] Damnit, just when I was getting going on UniverseUnmetDeps.. :'-( [04:13] bddebian: surely you've got other boxes you can use? [04:14] Bah, they all run Hurd. For about 5-10 minutes.. ;-P [04:14] eg a spare dell with a dodgy keyboard? :) [04:14] Heh [04:14] might as well use that, saves you having to find a box for it [04:14] of course it might be a *little* slow for compilign [04:15] I'll just "borrow" a shiny new laptop drive from work.. ;-P === robitaille [~daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:30] Yep, drive is definetely headed south... crap [04:31] save what you can [04:31] I managed to get 99.9% of the stuff of my laptop drive before it died [04:32] Not sure there is anything worthwhile on it, I've mostly been packaging stuff on it :-) [04:32] only a few files lost, which were copied from my desktop anyway :) === ajmitch might go home from work early today [04:37] since it's been a fairly unproductive day :) [04:37] :-) === majic [~majic@nc-69-69-52-5.sta.sprint-hsd.net] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Leaving"] [04:53] gah, we need a newer arch-buildpackage.. [04:54] gah, my hard drive has died.. :'-( [04:54] that's a shame [04:54] time for the freezer trick [04:55] The freezer trick? [04:56] bddebian: http://www.meetmyattorney.com/slink/mt-archives/000275.html [04:59] heh [04:59] And here I have been tapping drives with a screwdriver all this time [05:00] Oh well, I guess I'm relegated back to pr0n then.. :-) [05:00] I've never heard of it working like that specific incident [05:01] but I've has it work first hand to get data off unbootable disks on at least 3 different occasions [05:01] Nice [05:03] impressive [05:03] I'll have to try that with my next dying drive [05:03] Man this really irks me.. :-( [05:03] I've had it work twice, it really works [05:04] do you guys think gnome 2.12 will make it into the breezy release? [05:04] chillywilly: of course it will [05:04] chillywilly: If you build it it will.. ;-P [05:05] 2.12 is released & uploaded to breezy about a day before preview release [05:05] ok [05:05] it's a definite part of the release plan [05:05] happened with warty & hoary [05:05] cool, I was just reading the pre-release tour notes [05:06] ajmitch: do you use totem with the gstreamer backend? [05:06] I have found the gstreamer backend to be subpar [05:06] nope === bddebian hugs chillywilly [05:06] I don't use totem at all === chillywilly melts into a puddle [05:07] Finally, due to popular demand, audio CD copying has been added to Nautilus' CD burning functionality. [05:07] yay! [05:07] :) [05:07] heh [05:08] chillywilly: You are going to have to take over my tasks since my laptop has died.. ;-P [05:08] okey dokey [05:09] chillywilly: so hurry up & fix packages [05:09] bddebian task #1 - Slacking [05:09] you've got a quota to fill, you know [05:09] bddebian task #1 - IRC Harassment [05:09] chillywilly: lol [05:09] erm, #2 [05:09] bddebian task #3 - Sarcastic Inappropriate Jokes on #ubuntu-motu [05:10] you've already got #3 down [05:10] those truly are hard shoes to fill ;) [05:10] chillywilly: moi??? :-) [05:10] ajmitch: you betcha [05:10] why do you think we get along so well :) [05:10] Man, now I'm even getting lambasted by chillywilly [05:10] haha [05:12] chillywilly: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps is a good place to start working thanks [05:12] gnome 2.12 looks cool [05:12] Man, am I really that annoying? [05:12] ajmitch: there's plenty of stuff I can do for work too ;) [05:12] bddebian: nope, that's just chillywilly [05:12] :-o [05:12] take that back ajmitch [05:12] geez, my internet really blows tonight [05:12] that wiki page still hasn't loaded yet [05:12] chillywilly: you may have taken it the wrong way :) [05:12] ah, silly SSL certs [05:13] I meant that you just like harassing bddebian [05:13] oh [05:13] yea, it's fun [05:13] but it doesn't get universe fixed, so get to work [05:13] so do you buil the pbuilder environment for breezy? [05:13] chillywilly: yes [05:13] alrighty then [05:14] though I often don't use pbuilder because I'm lazy [05:14] *gasp* === highvolt1ge [~Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:15] what's zorp bddebian ? [05:15] never heard of it ;) [05:15] Me either :-) [05:16] bddebian: btw, why do you put up debdiffs for packages that only need rebuilds? [05:16] Because I changed the changelog [05:16] yes, but it's just a rebuild [05:16] Should I not bother? That is why I asked earlier [05:16] last edited 2005-08-03 02:09:23 by Bddebian [05:16] chillywilly: ?? [05:16] uh oh...;) [05:17] Oh, UniverseUnmetDeps? [05:17] well, the debdiff has far more than just changelog stuff [05:17] yes, unmet deps [05:17] ajmitch: For which? [05:17] xbsql [05:17] lots of config.* junk [05:17] Aye, I don't get why [05:18] W00t, saved my home dir without the freezer :-) [05:18] because they get modified by the build process [05:18] bddebian: you don't have a desktop machine? [05:19] bddebian: zeiberbude should be -2ubuntu1, not -2build2 [05:19] chillywilly: Not for Ubuntu yet. They are all Hurd or XP boxes :-) [05:19] since you made changes [05:19] sheesh [05:19] why is the PBuilderHowTo page missing? [05:19] bddebian: also, you don't need to add build-essential to build-depends [05:20] chillywilly: case-sensitive? [05:20] PbuilderHowTo works for me [05:20] ajmitch: Did I do that or was it already there? [05:20] well that's lame [05:21] hmmm, you have to register on launchpad.net? [05:21] bddebian: your debdiff has that change [05:21] I don't think I would ever add a build-dep for build-essential so that sounds fishy [05:21] is launchpad.net like a authentication web service thing? [05:21] s/a/an/ [05:22] bddebian: then it's probably the evil cdbs & control.in [05:22] chillywilly: launchpad is pure crack === bddebian punches himself [05:22] wth does that mean? [05:22] This is why I don't like debdiff [05:22] chillywilly: insanity run amok [05:22] chillywilly: it's where things like the bugtracker & various other services live [05:22] a number of which aren't live yet [05:23] ok [05:23] so yeah, I think you do need to register on launchpad, as it's the central site for everything [05:23] well I have a login already... === chillywilly clicks forgot password thingy [05:23] bddebian: I hope you don't mind me picking out these issues :) [05:26] note: they had problem earlier with launchpad...so some things don't work in it for the next few hours [05:26] robitaille: wonderful news.. [05:27] including malone bug reports :) [05:27] I'm logged into the wiki at the moment, so I think they may have cleared up [05:27] heh [05:27] ajmitch: No, I need to know === ajmitch wonders why bluez-utils is on unmet deps [05:27] since I installed it a couple of days ago [05:27] ajmitch: Can I just use diff then? [05:28] bddebian: hmm? how would diff be different from debdiff? [05:29] ajmitch: I can control diff ;-P [05:30] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowTo <-- that doesn't work for me either [05:30] chillywilly: strange, what does it complain about? [05:30] since I have that page open [05:30] just says it doesn't exist basically [05:30] bddebian: can you confirm that bluez-utils is installable? [05:31] it's PbuilderHowto [05:32] oh wel [05:33] gah, you ahd to edit it while I had it open... === chillywilly shrugs [05:34] I've never really used a wiki much before [05:34] ajmitch: Give me a sec [05:34] it means that I had to resolve conflicts [05:35] big deal [05:35] and that you ignored the warning that someone was editing it :) [05:35] wtf does it say that? [05:36] my bad [05:36] like I said I am not used to using a wiki ;) [05:36] ajmitch: Yep, installs fine here [05:37] bddebian: ok, I took it off the list [05:37] might as well get the list down as small as possible [05:37] Aye [05:39] ah, I see it was a suggests on bluez-firmware [05:39] we need to clear that list of junk entries [05:41] SUggests shouldn't be on there?? Hmm [05:41] no, I don't think so [05:42] since it shouldn't cause issues for a user [05:42] No, I mean, THEY shouldn't be. I generated the list :-) [05:42] using what command? [05:43] The one dholback posted on the wiki, plus some perl voodoo to put it in the "correct" format [05:44] which doesn't take into account depends or suggests [05:44] it just takes the whole list [05:44] Hmm, it doesn -v Suggests ? [05:44] I may be wrong [05:45] do I need to build a hoary chrtto env then just change the lines to breezya dn sit-upgrade? [05:45] dist* [05:45] chroot* [05:45] I didn't see any mention of suggests on the page [05:45] ajmitch: Hmm, I don't see that now that you mention it [05:45] chillywilly: that is probably a good way to do it [05:45] ok [05:48] bah [05:50] E: Failed getting release file http://archive.ubuntu.com/archive/dists/hoary/Release [05:50] pbuilder: debootstrap failed [05:51] works for me [05:51]