[12:05] <doko> ajmitch: please make sure, that before an import of wx, you call:
[12:06] <mdz> ogra: you forgot to include sdl-image1.2 in the tuxpaint main inclusion report
[12:07] <elmo> ajmitch: did you get the libsdl-sound bug report, btw?
[12:07] <mdz> Riddell: qca-tls has a main inclusion report, but it is neither seeded nor pulled in by a dependency
[12:07] <ogra> mdz, i havent worked on the list yet, i'll update it soon, there is more stuff to add
[12:07] <ajmitch> elmo: which one?
[12:07] <elmo> #1628, IIRC
[12:08] <doko> elmo: if you're still awake, please sync gcc-defaults from unstable (again), and java-gcj-bootstrap (from incoming)
[12:08] <elmo> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1628
[12:08] <ajmitch> ok, will fix
[12:09] <doko> wow, l-r-m in the build logs ...
[12:09] <niktaris> mdz, do I need to change anyting in initrd.gz or someplace else?
[12:11] <Riddell> mdz: hmm, I'm sure I added it to the seeds.  I'll do that now
[12:13] <elmo> doko: meh, done
[12:13] <doko> elmo: thanks :)
[12:21] <Amaranth> holy crap, l-r-m
[12:21] <tseng> Amaranth: huh?
[12:22] <Amaranth> linux-restricted-modules
[12:22] <Amaranth> i don't think it should be trying to build on ia64...
[12:22] <tseng> i dont see it on -changes
[12:23] <ogra> tseng, look harder, its there :)
[12:23] <tseng> oh
[12:24] <tseng> i sitll have a search up
[12:24] <tseng> for sebastian
[12:24] <Amaranth> it built on i386, ppc, and amd64
[12:24] <tseng> which is suprisingly very active :)
[12:24] <tseng> or, not suprising
[12:26] <mdz> niktaris: I'm not sure, since I don't know where your initrd.gz came from
[12:26] <mdz> Riddell: ok, I'll go ahead and move it
[12:27] <mdz> jdub: what's the story with howl?
[12:28] <niktaris> mdz, it's a standard sarge initrd.gz from the netinstall iso
[12:28] <Riddell> mdz: I've added to seed now
[12:32] <mdz> Riddell: are the gnupg2 dependencies coming back, or can gnupg2 move out to universe?
[12:33] <janimonoses> anyone encountered build breakages in the ./configure stage when pkg-config checks fails even if the package providing the .pc file is supposed to be installed according to the log?
[12:33] <janimonoses> see latest xfprint4
[12:34] <janimonoses> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xfprint4/4.2.2-1/xfprint4_4.2.2-1_20050803-1759-i386-failed.gz
[12:35] <mdz> Riddell: likewise for libassuan, pinentry, pcsc-lite and some others which originally came in as kubuntu deps for hoary
[01:00] <Riddell> mdz: depends if we want to support s/mime x.509 stuff in kmail
[01:02] <dholbach> we're having a discussion over packaging standards might somebody join us for an answer everybody can live with afterwards? :)
[01:02] <ogra> could any more experienced packager join the motu meeting for one topc... ?
[01:04] <mdz> Riddell: what changed between hoary and breezy?
[01:04] <jdub> md	mdnsresponder is apsl2
[01:05] <Riddell> mdz: as far as I remember amu added depends on kleopatra to kdepim and build-depends on gpgsm for hoary but removed them again before the final hoary
[01:21] <shaya> mdz: you here?
[01:21] <shaya> couldn't parse your unionfs bug
[01:22] <mdz> shaya: yes, I am
[01:22] <mdz> shaya: which part was unclear?
[01:22] <shaya> where it actually oopsed in unionfs code for one
[01:23] <mdz> stand by
[01:24] <mdz> unfortunately I have no way to cut and paste, since it's from a PXE boot of a system with no serial port
[01:24] <mdz> I'll bring up the full trace
[01:24] <shaya> hmm
[01:25] <shaya> it could very well not be oopsing in unionfs code, but that makes it much harder to debug
[01:25] <mdz> shaya: are you saying that the assertion failure is innocuous?
[01:25] <shaya> no
[01:25] <shaya> you didnt post the assertion
[01:26] <shaya> oh
[01:26] <shaya> didnt see that
[01:26] <shaya> woops
[01:26] <niktaris> mdz, talking about unionfs... did you know that fabian franz added unionfs support to casper ?
[01:26] <mdz> the subject was a bit mangled because the mailing list rejected it the first time
[01:26] <mdz> niktaris: no, he never sent me any patches
[01:27] <mdz> I have a half-finished implementation in my working directory here
[01:27] <mdz> shaya: EIP is at unionfs_open+0x3507+0x79d1
[01:27] <niktaris> I can point you to a link if you want
[01:27] <shaya> yes
[01:27] <shaya> I see it now
[01:27] <mdz> I don't know why that doesn't show up in the call trace
[01:27] <shaya> mdz: is this repeatable w/ plain nfs and tmpfs and unionsfs?
[01:27] <shaya> i.e. no pxe
[01:28] <mdz> I'll give it a try
[01:28] <shaya> perhaps just set it up plain and chroot into it?
[01:28] <mdz> yep, going to try that
[01:28] <shaya> makes it easier to reproduce
[01:28] <niktaris> mdz, http://debian.tu-bs.de/knoppix/skolelive/d-i/
[01:29] <niktaris> there is a casper.diff
[01:30] <mdz> niktaris: it doesn't add unionfs support, so much as replace the existing device-mapper code with unionfs code
[01:30] <mdz> my implementation adds it and allows for the method to be selected at runtime
[01:30] <mdz> but I don't think it will make it into breezy
[01:31] <shaya> mdz: unionfs is still a bit rough around the edges to say the least :)  I get stuck from time to time trying to solve bugs just to get my research done
[01:32] <niktaris> mdz I tried fabian's capser and it work only the locale didn't seem to go to the system...
[01:32] <mdz> shaya: yes, it's reproducible in a normal setup as well
[01:32] <mdz> shaya: different call trace
[01:32] <mdz> but then, I have no idea what the first call trace looks like in the netboot setup, because I get about 10 in a row
[01:33] <shaya> yea
[01:33] <shaya> mdz: once an assertion is thrown, you are dead
[01:33] <shaya> i.e. I've had it oopse forever on me
[01:33] <shaya> :)
[01:33] <shaya> or at least it seemed like forever until I power cycled the machine to get it to move on
[01:34] <niktaris> mdz, changed the initrd. still no go. var/log/syslog says something about the ext2 module missing
[01:34] <shaya> an assertion basically causes it to oops and it can get caught in a chain
[01:34] <mdz> shaya: 1.0.12a had been fairly solid; I encountered a few bugs but nothing which was a showstopper for me
[01:35] <mdz> this latest one has completely killed ltsp development for me
[01:35] <shaya> so why use .13?
[01:35] <shaya> why not stick w/ .12a?
[01:36] <shaya> mdz: other option might be to binary search the snapshots for where the problem was introduced?
[01:36] <mdz> shaya: because I didn't know that .13 was broken until we upgraded to it
[01:36] <shaya> :(
[01:36] <shaya> can't downgrade?
[01:37] <mdz> we certainly could
[01:37] <shaya> mdz: in regards to ltsp stuff, paper my group http://www.ncl.cs.columbia.edu/publications/mobicom2004_fordist.pdf
[01:37] <mdz> it involves a whole new kernel release
[01:37] <mdz> and fabbione is away
[01:38] <shaya> speaking of which, there's no restricted modules yet
[01:38] <shaya> haven't been able to run new kernel b/c of that
[01:38] <shaya> need my atheros
[01:39] <mdz> shaya: I guess you don't read breezy-changes
[01:39] <shaya> there's no more restricted?
[01:39] <tseng> shaya: mdz is the hero of the day.
[01:39] <shaya> oh there is
[01:39] <shaya> today
[01:39] <mdz> shaya: breezy-changes is a mailing list which notifies you of uploads to breezy
[01:39] <shaya> wow
[01:39] <shaya> mdz: aptitude does a good job of that as well :)
[01:41] <shaya> and the package has hit the archives
[01:41] <shaya> yay
[01:41] <shaya> or not
[01:41] <shaya> weird
[01:42] <shaya> seemed like it pulled restriced's packages.gz for a change
[01:44] <shaya> mdz: what I generally like to do when I hit an assertion like that is printk the upper dentry's d_name.name (and perhaps parent as well) to get an idea of what I'm dealing with
[01:44] <shaya> check if the files been deleted (if it's been unhashed) and some other junk
[01:44] <mdz> shaya: it's only there on powerpc at the moment, due to a bug
[01:45] <shaya> hmph
[01:45] <shaya> and here I was getting my hopes up to reboot today
[01:45] <mdz> I just uploaded a fixed version
[01:46] <shaya> do aspell-bin and aspell-en packages not exist anymore?
[01:46] <shaya> weird that the library was rebuilt but not those packages
[01:51] <dholbach> good night everybody
[01:56] <mdz> shaya: I wonder what it is about my setup which is different; clearly 1.0.13 works for others
[01:56] <mdz> shaya: is it working for you?
[01:56] <shaya> I acutally haven't used it yet
[01:56] <shaya> as in paper mode
[01:56] <shaya> so have a working snapshot that does my needs
[01:56] <shaya> I also use it with GFS
[01:57] <shaya> which brings about its own world of hurt
[01:57] <mdz> it seems to work for me with tmpfs-over-ext3
[01:57] <mdz> so maybe it's nfs-related
[01:57] <shaya> or unionfs not understanding tmpfs semantics
[01:57] <shaya> I mean nfs
[01:57] <shaya> each fs seems to have their own semantics for different funcitons
[01:57] <shaya> such as d_revalidate
[01:58] <shaya> GFS returns a failure if you try to revalidate a deleted dentry
[01:58] <shaya> though every other fs I tried doesn't seem to care
[01:58] <shaya> there's no good documentation that says what the func is supposed to do
[01:59] <shaya> mdz: can you recompile unionfs w/ a small patch?
[02:00] <shaya> just wondering what dentry it's failing on
[02:00] <shaya> printk("dentry %s in %s\n", dentry->d_name.name, dentry->d_parent->d_name.name);
[02:01] <shaya> sticking that right before the assertion
[02:01] <shaya> like 438 in commonfops.c
[02:01] <mdz> yeah, I can try that
[02:01] <shaya> then you can try to do some post portum by looking at the underlying FSs and seeing what's there
[02:02] <shaya> mortum
[02:02] <shaya> anyways, off I go for a bit
[02:03] <mdz> shaya: interesting; it produces some warnings (which are turned into errors) with gcc-4.0
[02:03] <mdz> /home/mdz/src/unionfs-1.0.13/subr.c: In function create_whiteout:
[02:03] <mdz> /home/mdz/src/unionfs-1.0.13/subr.c:51: warning: pointer targets in passing argument 2 of strncat differ in signedness
[02:03] <mdz> /home/mdz/src/unionfs-1.0.13/subr.c: In function unionfs_refresh_hidden_dentry:
[02:03] <mdz> /home/mdz/src/unionfs-1.0.13/subr.c:279: warning: pointer targets in passing argument 1 of lookup_one_len differ in signedness
[02:04] <ogra> mdz, is unionfs separated from the kernel ? i thought it was a module
[02:04] <mdz> ogra: unionfs is a module which is built with the kernel
[02:05] <ogra> mdz, why do you build it with gcc-4.0 then ? the kernel uses 3.4 afaik
[02:06] <mdz> ogra: because gcc-4.0 is the default and I forgot to force it
[02:07] <ogra> ah, i jus had the case yesterday with ndiswrapper on amd64.... :) (we should add amd64 to the target arches for ndiswrapper btw)
[02:09] <Lathiat> who handles the white listing for breezy-changes?
[02:09] <ogra> Lathiat, see the Uploads wikipage
[02:10] <Lathiat> ogra: i did, and i emailed a few days ago and waiting, wondering if i can annoy someone about it
[02:10] <ogra> Lathiat, elmo sits on the other end of this mail adress if it didnt change yet...
[02:10] <Lathiat> i mean it might have been added silently, i assumed i'd get a reply
[02:34] <lexhider> am I meant to report breezy goals via bugzilla or malone?
[02:34] <lexhider> s/goals/bugs
[02:35] <bob2> malone for universe, bugzilla for main
[02:40] <|QuaD-> hmm, my X ALMOST works... it loads the server, just shows jibberish and can't use the keyboard to switch to terminal (though i did change my xorg.config to have kbd)
[02:41] <shaya> I haven't been able to switch to vt terminal for a while
[02:41] <shaya> as well
[02:41] <shaya> so if anyone knows the fix, I'm all ears
[02:42] <|QuaD-> shaya: does gnome/kde work for you?
[02:42] <shaya> yes
[02:42] <lexhider> me neither, I hadn't notice until you just said then.
[02:42] <shaya> everything works besides switching VTs
[02:42] <ogra> shaya, i dont remember it correctly, but something about installing xkeyboard-config and xkbutils
[02:42] <|QuaD-> lexhider: do you have the same problem i do?
[02:43] <ogra> shaya, en_US keyboard ?
[02:43] <shaya> hmm
[02:43] <shaya> how come nothing pulls in xkbutils?
[02:43] <ogra> shaya, lost in transition currently ;)
[02:44] <|QuaD-> how do we restart our xserver (or start it) without startx?
[02:44] <ogra> gdm should work... it does here
[02:45] <bob2> |QuaD-: X
[02:45] <|QuaD-> ogra: it doesn't here.... i might have fixed it, how do i restart X?
[02:45] <|QuaD-> thanks bob2 
[02:45] <lexhider> |QuaD-, no, same as shaya, xorg is working for me on breezy
[02:46] <lexhider> |QuaD-, X instead of startx?
[02:46] <lexhider> or sudo /etc/init.d/gdm start
[02:49] <lexhider> for "System->LogOut->Hibernate" is the "save current setup" option irrelevant???
[02:49] <ogra> it doesnt stop your session
[02:49] <ogra> so i would say its irrelevant
[02:49] <lexhider> ok, will file bug.
[02:50] <lexhider> gee bug reporting is a pain over dialup
[02:50] <bob2> s/bug reporting/& with bugzilla/
[02:52] <lexhider> yes
[02:52] <jdub> with *our* bugzilla
[02:53] <bob2> heh, most places don't have > 1000 products
[02:54] <glyph> What is the policy that Canonical has regarding synchronizing bzr with upstream packages?
[02:56] <Lathiat> the product thing needs to be converted to use ajax :)
[02:57] <bob2> glyph: how do you mean?
[02:57] <glyph> bob2: I mean, I run a few open source projects, several of which Ubuntu synchronizes, and we are attempting to diagnose why one of our SVN repositories has been crashing 3 times a day for the last 2 days
[02:58] <glyph> bob2: one suspect is repository synchronization scripts
[02:58] <bob2> glyph: it's bazaar, not bzr
[02:58] <bob2> and it's not Ubuntu the distro synchronising it :)
[02:58] <bob2> but ok
[02:58] <bob2> try asking in #launchpad
[03:01] <glyph> bob2: thanks
[03:01] <glyph> bob2: the problem here is really that svn's logging is so bad that we can't figure out what's happened locally
[03:02] <bob2> ouch
[03:02] <bob2> it doesn't even log connections?
[03:02] <Lathiat> glyph: firewall the sync server? ;p
[03:07] <lexhider> Currently LeftAlt+Foo does stuff and RightAlt+Foo doesn't. Is this just a breezyXorg is shaky issue or a genuine bug?
[03:17] <jasoncohen> there was a lot of talk on the ubuntu forums about better autopackage support. I just tested installing newest versions of gaim, gaim-vv and inkscape from autopackages and it worked perfectly and all i had to do was double click, enter root passwd (no sudo support that i'm aware of) and let it install. Any clue what these people were talking about?
[03:24] <jasoncohen> anyone know why synaptic shows the ubuntu icon next to backports packages? i would imagine this isnt' expected behavior as the ubuntu icon should only be for officially supported packages in main & restricted
[03:25] <ogra> jasoncohen, file a bug, i think synaptic just isnt adjusted to the new situation yet
[03:25] <jasoncohen> ok
[03:45] <lexhider> daniels: Currently LeftAlt+Foo does stuff and RightAlt+Foo doesn't. Is this just a breezyXorg is shaky issue or a genuine bug?
[03:48] <daniels> lexhider: to some degree, probably a genuine bug.  which layout are you using?
[03:49] <OddAbe19> daniels, any idea when xorg 7 beta will enter breezy... and any idea of when glx (glx gears/etc) will enter?
[03:49] <OddAbe19> i've got people wondering on AIM
[03:49] <tseng> glxgears is useless.
[03:49] <Lathiat> tseng: whys that?
[03:49] <OddAbe19> glx in general
[03:49] <OddAbe19> so people can play games/use gl stuff
[03:49] <lexhider> daniels, pc105 setup as dvorak, kb is Microsoft natural
[03:50] <tseng> Lathiat: it has no practical value
[03:50] <OddAbe19> it shows if GLX is working
[03:50] <OddAbe19> anyway
[03:50] <tseng> its in the same class as kde-mr-potato-head
[03:51] <OddAbe19> instead of saying glxgears is useless, what about my release date question
[03:52] <bob2> isn't it a little late to be moving to a new major entirely repackaged version of X?
[03:53] <OddAbe19> we still have 3 months, I have true faith in the X team
[03:53] <OddAbe19> :-)
[03:53] <Lathiat> OddAbe19: err, no
[03:57] <tseng> Lathiat: hm bruce perens is into the Rails scene now
[04:00] <daniels> OddAbe19: a) it's already there for the most part, b) gl support is totally complete.  glxgears and glxinfo aren't in because I'm incredibly spiteful.
[04:00] <daniels> OddAbe19: but you can play all the actual GL games you want.
[04:01] <daniels> lexhider: um, dude, you said pc105
[04:01] <daniels> lexhider: pc105 -> right alt used as level3
[04:01] <OddAbe19> cool
[04:01] <OddAbe19> thanks
[04:01] <daniels> lexhider: if you want right alt as alt, use pc104
[04:01] <lexhider> daniels, I'm a bit clueless on this stuff, is that the righ answer.
[04:01] <daniels> lexhider: (and edit /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/us and remove the include(ralt_level3_multikey) line)
[04:01] <daniels> lexhider: yes
[04:02] <lexhider> daniels, ok, is it a bug that pc105 was setup by default instead of pc104? s/pc104/pc105 in xorg.conf?
[04:04] <daniels> lexhider: did you select the 'dvorak' layout?
[04:04] <lexhider> yep
[04:09] <lexhider> daniels, no ralt_level3_multikey in us file.
[04:10] <daniels>     include "level3(ralt_switch)"
[04:12] <lexhider> daniels, all 3 instances?
[04:12] <daniels> lexhider: only the one in dvorak
[04:13] <lexhider> ok
[04:14] <lexhider> restarting X back in a minute
[04:20] <lexhider> daniels: did s/pc104/pc105 in xorg.conf and removed that line from /blah/blah/us, on gnome login given error dialog about XKB configuration, and another dialog to choose whether to use X or gnome keyboard settings
[04:22] <daniels> lexhider: did you choose X?
[04:23] <lexhider> daniels: I haven't done either yet
[04:27] <daniels> choose X
[04:28] <lexhider> daniels, ok, RightAlt+Foo still not doing anything.
[04:33] <daniels> lexhider: cool
[04:34] <lexhider> daniels, cool?
[05:07] <Lathiat> mdz: champion
[05:22] <infinity> mdz : Would it be okay to sync devscripts so we can get a debdiff that actually works with the new dpkg-dev?
[05:31] <mdz> infinity: yes
[05:52] <infinity> Hrm, I could be on crack, but I could have sworn I saw a thread on ubuntu-devel a while back about people's X cursors getting messed up.  Can't for the life of me find it now, and a freshly upgraded breezy machine is displaying the problem.
[05:53] <infinity> Maybe it was in the channel..
[06:03] <Amaranth> infinity: libxcursor-dev
[06:03] <Amaranth> infinity: install that and cursors work again
[06:03] <shaya> mdz: I found what's causing your bug :)
[06:04] <infinity> Amaranth : <blink>
[06:06] <shaya> unsure how to fix it, but at least found it :)
[06:06] <infinity> Oh, man, that is wrong on so many levels.
[06:06] <Amaranth> infinity: this is called a bug :)
[06:06] <infinity> That means something is loading libXcursor.so?

[06:07] <Amaranth> KILL IT
[06:08] <Amaranth> woo
[06:08] <Amaranth> my panel doesn't crash anymore and it updates correctly
[06:08] <Burgundavia> mine doesn't
[06:08] <Amaranth> latest gamin and gnome-menus?
[06:09] <Burgundavia> yep
[06:09] <Amaranth> have you logged out since upgrading?
[06:09] <Burgundavia> no
[06:09] <Amaranth> when i killed gamin and the panel to get them to reload it started crashing
[06:09] <Amaranth> i rebooted into windows and now back, works perfectly
[06:13] <whiprush> working sweet here also.
[06:39] <Burgundavia> jdub, fridge? is it unplugged?\
[06:42] <daniels> infinity: right, that'd be libX11 being shit
[06:43] <daniels> remind me to look at it when I have more than 3% battery
[07:39] <infinity> daniels : Do you have more than 3% battery now, huh, huh?
[07:41] <sivang> MOrning all
[07:42] <highvolt1ge> morning, sivang 
[07:43] <sivang> highvoltage: High Jono, how's the desktop hacks coming? 
[07:43] <sivang> s/High/hi
[07:44] <infinity> daniels : Care to lay the smack down on bug 13162, since it's something you feel so strongly about?
[07:44] <sivang> highvoltage: oops, I confused you with someone else I think
[07:46] <infinity> daniels : Oh, nevermind, I'm SO behind the times, you already closed it.
[07:48] <highvoltage> sivang: it depends :)
[07:50] <highvoltage> sivang: i'm doing a bit of stuff for edubuntu, but i think you might have confused me with jonathan riddel?
[07:53] <sivang> highvoltage: Hmm, no, I confused you with someone called Jono Bacon , he's an author
[08:08] <daniels> infinity: no, because I have no idea where my charger is.  i already told you this. :P
[08:08] <daniels> infinity: must be in one of the seven or so blue bags, I figure.
[08:09] <Lathiat> ugh gnome-panel is crashign when application files get added
[08:11] <pef> hello
[08:15] <Burgundavia> daniels, would you mind setting the record straight on this thread? http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=54249
[08:17] <daniels> Burgundavia: the server hasn't been moved over to the modular kit yet, hence no exa.  that'll happen sometime this month.
[08:17] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:18] <Burgundavia> thanks
[08:25] <Burgundavia> daniels, the other question that I know will come up on the forums is binary drivers. Will those break with modular?
[08:26] <daniels> Burgundavia: nvidia no, ati yes
[08:26] <Burgundavia> rofl
[08:26] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:26] <daniels> Burgundavia: iirc ati haven't yet released a fglrx that works with the libdl-based loader
[08:26] <daniels> (aka 'dlloader')
[08:27] <Lathiat> bah who cares about ati
[08:28] <daniels> evidently not trolls
[08:28] <Burgundavia> thanks again
[08:28] <Burgundavia> I have informed the forums
[08:28] <daniels> np
[08:52] <Amaranth> So what happens if ATI doesn't release a new driver before october?
[09:01] <m0ns00n> Hello
[09:13] <sivang> does anybody know what's the probability of lossing data when resizing and ext3 partition?
[09:14] <sivang> ogra: is parted stable enough?
[09:15] <Treenaks> sivang: depends on lots of things
[09:16] <Treenaks> sivang: (mountedness at resize-time being one..)
[09:16] <bob2> you should have backups, even if you're not poking your partition table
[09:16] <bob2> so use your fear of resizing asa good excuse to backup now
[09:21] <Lathiat> so.. is it possible to get xine to play mp3s?
[09:22] <sladen> Lathiat: yes
[09:22] <Lathiat> sladen: how?
[09:22] <sladen> xine *.mp3
[09:22] <Lathiat> thanks you were so helpfull
[09:22] <sladen> Lathiat: what are you not seeing working?
[09:22] <Lathiat> sladen: totem-xine doesnt recognise it
[09:23] <Lathiat> i assume it was ripped out
[09:23] <Amaranth> it's a bad mp3 file?
[09:23] <Lathiat> "there is no plugin to handle this movie"
[09:23] <Lathiat> Amaranth: nope, no mp3s will play
[09:23] <Amaranth> err
[09:23] <Amaranth> afaik xine isn't moving to main, i don't think anything got removed from it
[09:23] <Lathiat> hrm
[09:24] <Lathiat> it used to work
[09:24] <Lathiat> i think it just hasnt worked since i reinstaslled
[09:24] <Lathiat> hrm, why does rhythmbxo depend on totem?
[09:25] <Amaranth> afaik it should only depend on the playlist parser
[09:25] <Amaranth> but maybe it uses totem to play things now :P
[09:25] <Lathiat> thats what i thought
[09:25] <Lathiat> Amaranth: ffs, you seein ggnome panel crash everytime the applications directory changes?
[09:25] <Lathiat> everytime i install a package now it dies
[09:25] <Amaranth> Lathiat: i was until i restarted
[09:26] <Lathiat> hrm maybe i need to restart
[09:26] <Amaranth> logging out might work too
[09:26] <Amaranth> as long as gnome-panel and gam_server stop completely it should come back on fine
[09:26] <Lathiat> i usually logout and then drop to a console and pkill -u lathiat
[09:26] <Lathiat> of course, my ctrl+alt+f1 isnt working atm
[09:27] <sladen> [pid   798]  open("/usr/lib/xine/plugins/1.0.0/xineplug_decode_mad.so", O_RDONLY) = 16
[09:27] <Lathiat> anyone else have that problem?
[09:27] <Lathiat> sladen: do you have the problem that it wont play them?
[09:27] <Amaranth> Lathiat: nope, try reinstalling xkbutils and/or xkeyboard-config
[09:27] <sladen> libxine1: /usr/lib/xine/plugins/1.0.0/xineplug_decode_mad.so
[09:28] <sladen> Lathiat: no.  They've always ''just worked'' for me.
[09:28] <Lathiat> hrm
[09:28] <Lathiat> i have that file, fo r1.0.1 tho
[09:28] <Lathiat> have i picked up som eevil backport or something somehow
[09:29] <sladen> probably not.  Admittedly I'm looking from a Debian install
[09:29] <Lathiat> ah right
[09:29] <Lathiat> thats not goign to help much. :)
[09:29] <Lathiat> Amaranth: hrm, xkbutils isnt installed
[09:45] <pitti> Good morning
[09:47] <siretart> hi pitti. good morning seb128 
[09:47] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[09:47] <seb128> hey siretart pitti
[09:48] <siretart> fabionne working on holidays? ;)
[09:50] <sivang> hey seb128 , pitti , siretart 
[09:50] <siretart> hi sivang 
[09:51] <sivang>  bob2 : right, I should
[09:51] <Amaranth> seb128: gnome-panel still crash for you?
[09:52] <seb128> yep
[09:52] <seb128> not for you?
[09:52] <Amaranth> nope
[09:52] <Amaranth> after i restarted it all started working perfectly
[09:56] <seb128> weird
[09:56] <seb128> upstream has fixed it anyway
[09:58] <Amaranth> heh, bug #?
[09:58] <Amaranth> i couldn't find it
[10:00] <Amaranth> seb128: btw, what ever happened to bug 310270? you found the problem and proposed a solution, seems to have been ignored
[10:00] <mdke> i have to manually set my wireless channel each time I boot. is this a bug?
[10:03] <bob2> mdke: ipw2?00?
[10:04] <mdke> bob2, the driver is acx_pci
[10:04] <mdke> it doesn't associate unless it set the channel by hand
[10:04] <mdke> it/I
[10:05] <bob2> ah
[10:08] <mdke> i think that is worth a bug report
[10:09] <Lathiat> yeh thats a bug
[10:11] <seb128> Amaranth: federico has some other stuff to do for work atm, but he said he will reply on that but not before thursday
[10:11] <Amaranth> today or next week?
[10:13] <seb128> today
[10:26] <koke> who I have to ask for a mailing list??
[10:26] <Amaranth> jdub?
[10:29] <bob2> your topic doesn't fit any of the existing ones?
[10:31] <koke> ok, thanks
[10:32] <seb128> pitti: any special requirement for python bindings on main stuff? I've put pycairo on the list for main
[10:50] <pitti> seb128: that's mostly trivial stuff anyway
[10:58] <Kmorph> have to bail out. see you guys later!
[11:01] <seb128> pitti: cool, thanks
[11:09] <trygvebw> hihi
[11:11] <Amaranth> seb128: good news, the pyxdg dev is back and we're getting things figured out for a new release
[11:12] <seb128> nice
[11:12] <tepsipakki> how come the "single-user-mode" sets up networking and mounts all that's in fstab?
[11:12] <tepsipakki> seems to be the same in debian, but why...
[11:13] <trygvebw> is there an easy fix for the xkb issue in breezy?
[11:13] <tepsipakki> that's not very su to me..
[11:13] <Amaranth> trygvebw: xkb issue?
[11:14] <Amaranth> trygvebw: you scared daniels away
[11:14] <trygvebw> :p
[11:14] <Amaranth> either that or he hit Ctrl-W again
[11:14] <trygvebw> Amaranth: xkb wont work correctly when i start X, no ae's or oe's etc :p
[11:14] <trygvebw> :p
[11:14] <tepsipakki> install xkbutils
[11:14] <Amaranth> make sure xkbutils and xkeyboard-config are installed
[11:14] <Amaranth> if they are, reinstall them
[11:14] <trygvebw> i'm pretty sure they're already installed
[11:14] <trygvebw> if not a dist-upgrade might've uninstalled them :p
[11:14] <trygvebw> *checking*
[11:14] <tepsipakki> i'm pretty sure they aren't ;)
[11:15] <tepsipakki> nothing depends on them
[11:15] <trygvebw> you were right :p
[11:15] <trygvebw> thanks :)
[11:27] <tortoise_> is an upgrade to breezy safe now??
[11:29] <ogra> checking for python module gnome.canvas... no
[11:29] <ogra> configure: error: *** pygtk installed but not visible from python
[11:30] <ogra> GAH !
[11:30] <ogra> seb128, ^^^ did they rmove it completely now ??
[11:30] <ogra> remove even
[11:32] <ogra> jamesh, ping ? 
[11:33] <seb128> python2.4-gnome2: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gnomecanvas.so
[11:33] <seb128> you want this maybe?
[11:34] <ogra> gar gar gar.... 
[11:34] <ogra> seb128, can you imagine in how many places i have to fix that in 43MB gcompris source ?
[11:34] <ogra> *sigh* (deeply)
[11:34] <seb128> what?
[11:34] <ogra> gnome.canvas
[11:35] <seb128> >>> import gnome.canvas
[11:35] <seb128> __main__:1: DeprecationWarning: Module gnome.canvas is deprecated; please import gnomecanvas instead
[11:35] <seb128> >>>
[11:35] <ogra> changing to gnomecanvas
[11:35] <seb128> but it works
[11:35] <seb128> install python2.4-gnome2
[11:35] <seb128> no need to change anything
[11:35] <ogra> python-gnome2-dev is a dependency... 
[11:35] <seb128> and changing "gnome.canvas" by "gnomecanvas" is not a big deal anyway
[11:35] <ogra> so it should work
[11:36] <seb128> read the config.log 
[11:36] <seb128> what package is that?
[11:36] <ogra> yep
[11:36] <ogra> gcompris *shudder*
[11:37] <ogra> the current source doesnt build on gcc-4.0 systems... i'm patching cvs on top of it...its very ugly...but complies
[11:37] <ogra> compiles too
[11:38] <seb128> what does the config.log says?
[11:38] <seb128> I'll download that later if required
[11:38] <ogra> i'll have to build again, my pbuilder doesnt leave a config.log 
[11:39] <ogra> seb128, nope, its ok, i'll fix it, thanks for the tip... i was just worried gnomecanvas dissapeared completely in favor of cairo
[11:40] <seb128> nop
[11:40] <seb128> and deprecated stuff are not trashed anyway
[11:42] <ogra> oki... nice to know :)
[11:43] <trygvebw> :/
[11:45] <trygvebw> i installed all xkb packages, but i still recieve that startup error :(
[11:46] <Amaranth> trygvebw: System->Preferences->Keyboard, layout tab, reset to defaults
[11:47] <trygvebw> ill try
[11:50] <trygvebw> okay
[11:50] <trygvebw> us layout works, but when i change i get that xkb message again and the keyboard layout settings program crashes :(
[11:51] <trygvebw> with this in the console:
[11:51] <trygvebw> ** (gnome-keyboard-properties:7035): CRITICAL **: XkbGetKeyboard failed to get keyboard from the server!
[11:55] <Kamion> s/read/head/
[11:55] <trygvebw> heh
[11:56] <trygvebw> and in addition, xorgconfig is *gone*
[11:56] <pitti> elmo: centericq sync, please
[11:58] <mvo> seb128: thanks for fixing #6088 (gaim)
[11:58] <mvo> s/gaim/gamin/
[11:59] <trygvebw> wtf
[11:59] <seb128> I'm not the one which fixed it, I've just updated the package, but thanks :)
[11:59] <trygvebw> there is no /etc/X11/xkb/symbols on my system :O
[12:00] <trygvebw> what is the name of the most important xkb packages?
[12:01] <tepsipakki> install xkeyboard-config
[12:01] <tepsipakki> as advised
[12:01] <trygvebw> yah
[12:01] <trygvebw> it was installed already
[12:01] <tepsipakki> reinstall it
[12:01] <trygvebw> ive written my new problem above
[12:02] <trygvebw> oh wait
[12:02] <trygvebw> moment
[12:02] <trygvebw> trying to relog
[12:10] <trygvebw> hm
[12:10] <trygvebw> i still get that message on gnome-start, and keyboard settings still crash :(
[12:11] <trygvebw> this is after reinstall xkeyboard-config
[12:13] <trygvebw> *reinstalling
[12:17] <trygvebw> okay, x works now :D
[12:18] <trygvebw> had to reinstall xlibs, xbase-clients, xkbutils and xkeyboard-config
[12:24] <pitti> elmo: wordpress sync, please
[12:34] <janimo> elmo please sync the xfce4 package (a meta), dropping ubuntu changes, thanks
[12:35] <elmo> pitti / janimo: done
[12:43] <tseng> whiprush: dude, wouldnt it make more sense to do at least half the rhythmbox/itunes howl stuff with gnomevfs?
[12:44] <Riddell> elmo: could you sync qt4-x11 from debian (or should I ask permission for new packages first?)
[12:44] <tseng> Riddell: new universe is ok for now
[12:45] <Riddell> ok, please sync elmo 
[12:50] <Mez> lamont/infinity: ping
[12:54] <\sh> elmo: ping do u have any new informations about the linodeservers?
[01:14] <seb128> pitti: what's going on with languages packs?
[01:15] <carlos> seb128, near there
[01:15] <seb128> carlos: what do you mean?
[01:15] <pitti> seb128: the last hoary tarball was unusable, so I still have no data; yesterday I asked mdz for a talk about the final structure decision
[01:15] <carlos> seb128, Breezy import should be finished today or tomorrow, we restarted the process yesterday
[01:15] <seb128> k
[01:16] <carlos> and I hope the issues martin raised will be fixed also this week
[01:16] <seb128> pitti: grumpf ... I understand that's not an easy situation, but translators, users, etc expect getting to get translations updates now
[01:16] <seb128> pitti: not easy to catch up on what do do when you have no idea of what is not translated and what is due to language-packs
[01:17] <seb128> k, so this week guys?
[01:17] <pitti> I'll just go with the split approach if no miracle happens by tomorrow
[01:18] <seb128> thanks
[01:19] <Mez> why was libexif deleted?
[01:20] <seb128> Mez: soname change
[01:23] <Mez> ah fair enough :D
[01:23] <Mez> whats the new name?
[01:26] <seb128> Mez: apt-cache search libexif?
[01:26] <seb128> it's libexif12
[01:31] <ogra> seb128, still no luck for me with gcompris... its quite strange, configure runs fine on my system, but breaks in the pbuilder... i've put up the config.log here: http://www.grawert.net/gcompris_config.log
[01:32] <ogra> seb128, and this is my Dep line: Build-Depends: libgnomeui-dev (>= 2.6.1.1-4), debhelper (>= 4.2.3), libxml2-dev, libao-dev, libvorbis-dev (>= 1.0.0-2), gnuchess, texinfo, texi2html, dh-buildinfo, libassetml-dev (>= 1.1-2), python2.4-dev, python-gtk2-dev, python-gnome2-dev, libsdl-mixer1.2-dev, libxml-parser-perl, libxrandr-dev
[01:32] <ogra> seb128, could you have a look why it doesnt find gnomecanvas ?
[01:37] <seb128> ogra: and if you hack the configure to change gnome.canvas by gnomecanvas?
[01:37] <ogra> didnt work
[01:38] <ogra> its very strange...
[01:38] <jdthood> For ALSA purposes we want to add a second .asoundrc file.  We have thought of calling it either '.asoundrc.foo' or '.foo.asoundrc'.  Can anyone think of a reason to prefer one or the other?
[01:38] <ogra> it works with gnome.canvas locally
[01:38] <ogra> (i.e. not in the pbuilder)
[01:38] <jdthood> ... or does anyone have a better suggestion?
[01:39] <jdub> jdthood: easier to find if it's .asoundrc* ?
[01:41] <sabdfl> jdub: congrats dude!
[01:42] <ogra> oh, yes... jdub when do you open a church now ? :)
[01:42] <jdthood> jdub: Is that a lot easier than .*.asoundrc?  ;)
[01:43] <jdthood> jdub: I am mainly wondering whether or not there is a precedent already set by some other program that has multiple .*rc files.
[01:43] <ogra> jdthood, .asoundrc* finds you both files, .*.asoundrc doesnt
[01:44] <jdthood> ogra: Ah, true
[01:44] <jdthood> I should have said '.*asoundrc'
[01:44] <ogra> :)
[01:52] <lifeless> dark: is x unfucked yet ?
[01:52] <lifeless> bah
[01:52] <lifeless> ... is x unfucked yet ?
[01:52] <tseng> dont ask daniel
[01:52] <tseng> he's been claiming its been unfucked for weeks.
[01:53] <Treenaks> well, it's unfuckedish for me
[01:53] <ogra> did xfce already build ?
[01:53] <Treenaks> so he could be right, as I mess with my config manually
[01:53] <tseng> ogra: thats just a meta package
[01:54] <ogra> tseng, yes, but a look at the buildlogs says its fine... try it :)
[01:54] <tseng> boo, kernel update
[01:54] <ogra> and l-r-m update :)
[01:54] <tseng> hm no abi break
[01:54] <Treenaks> l-r-m update?
[01:54] <tseng> ogra: is lrm built?
[01:55] <Treenaks> tseng: yes, it built.. but I think it's NEW
[01:55] <tseng> oh, right
[01:55] <ogra> yes, but for the last version... it needs a rebuild for the new one i guess
[01:55] <ogra> there was a linux-meta update afterwards
[01:55] <Treenaks> 2.6.12-6 -- more ABI breakage?
[01:56] <tseng> -6 is not an abi bump, dude.
[01:56] <ogra> err, s/linux-meta/linux-source
[01:56] <Treenaks> tseng: hm..
[01:56] <tseng> that would be -7
[01:57] <Treenaks> I thought it used to be -5
[01:57] <tseng> 5 was on 28 Jul
[02:01] <janimo> tseng/ogra xfce is in the process of becoming installable :)
[02:01] <tseng> janimo: :)
[02:01] <tseng> ive been waiting a long time to play with the new 4.2 stuff
[02:01] <tseng> *shiny*
[02:01] <janimo> tseng, but that stuff was in hoary did you know?
[02:02] <janimo> 4.2.1.1
[02:02] <tseng> i havent had hoary in months
[02:02] <janimo> I am on breezy too but I didn't update to broken xfce4 so I still run the hoary packages
[02:02] <tseng> heh
[02:03] <janimo> only the past days did I have time fro ubuntu, but I will have even more shortly ;)
[02:04] <tseng> great.
[02:05] <jdub> sabdfl: thanks!
[02:05] <jdub> ogra: haha
[02:05] <ogra> :)
[02:06] <janimo> anybody got the power to force a rebuild of some packages w/o upload?I see lamont is away
[02:07] <janimo> or what is the interval failed builds are retried
[02:07] <ajmitch> hi all
[02:07] <janimo> hi ajmitch
[02:07] <ajmitch> mpt: .br now?
[02:09] <mpt> ajmitch: For the past 2.5 weeks and the next few months, yes
[02:10] <ajmitch> mpt: well it'll be a welcome change from nelson for awhile :)
[02:11] <ogra> mpt, months ? 
[02:20] <mvo> seb128: is there a known problem with gtk2.7 and the treeview? I get some odd stuff here with a pygtk custom treemodel
[02:22] <seb128> nop
[02:22] <seb128> what "odd stuff"?
[02:22] <mvo> seb128: columns without content, I'm debugging it right now, maybe my treemodel code
[02:23] <seb128> k
[02:28] <ogra> eeek
[02:28] <ogra> tar: gcompris-7.0.0PRE1/boards/music/background/Brahms__Johannes_-_String_Quartet_C_minor__Op_51_mvmt_4.ogg: file name is too long (max 99); not dumped
[02:28] <Mez>  hmmles
[02:29] <Mez> if theres a buildlog saying something built successfully
[02:29] <Mez> then it shouldnt show up as still building in the lists ... should it?
[02:35] <mvo> seb128: here is what it looks like, can't reproduce it on hoary http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bad-treeview.png
[02:36] <seb128> mvo: the empty lines?
[02:37] <mvo> seb128: yes. happens after I call row_inserted() in pygtk it seems
[02:37] <herve> hmm... I had a selection list out its box in firefox
[02:37] <herve> but this could have been a gecko bug
[02:39] <Mez> any news on the GTK bug tht makes all the fonts look massive
[02:44] <seb128> Mez: there is no such bug known
[02:44] <seb128> mvo: do you have a small example for this ubg?
[02:46] <Mez> seb128, I'mn in breezy, and well, my FF fonts are massive compared to what they were in hoary/what they are in konqueror
[02:46] <Mez> I'm not too sure if it's only in FF...
[02:46] <Mez> but in FF it's not just stuff rendered by GTK
[02:46] <Mez> by FF *
[02:46] <Mez> It's like, buttons and menus and stuff
[02:47] <Mez> I share the same home drive between hoary and breezy and it looks different on breezy
[02:47] <winkle> maybe the autohinter is turned on?
[02:48] <Mez> autohinter?
[02:48] <ajmitch> Mez: I had large fonts, but that problem seems to have gone away recently
[02:48] <ajmitch> fonts appeared to be out by about 2 pt
[02:49] <Mez> ajmitch, tha'ts about right yeah
[02:49] <herve> Mez, I saw Mozilla with like 72pt menu bar a few times
[02:49] <Mez> I've still got the problem like
[02:49] <Mez> hmm
[02:49] <Mez> one sec
[02:50] <mvo> seb128: I figured it out. its a gtk problem that is triggered when I set "fixed_height" mode
[02:51] <mvo> seb128: it's not strictly a gtk bug, but seting fixed_height too early result in this funny screen
[02:51] <seb128> k
[02:51] <seb128> ajmitch: dpi setting was not used by pango/cairo before cairo 0.6 
[02:52] <Mez> http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~mez/screenies/bug.png
[02:52] <ajmitch> seb128: which is probably why it disappeared after only a couple of days
[02:52] <Mez> thats a screeny of my problem (comparison between FF and Konq
[02:53] <tseng> Mez: is that really a "bug"?
[02:53] <Mez> tseng: yes...
[02:53] <lamont-away> janimo: which package?
[02:53] <Mez> tseng: It's showing everything BIGGER than it should be
[02:53] <Mez> all my settings are the same
[02:53] <Mez> btu FF is showing it bigger (And all the internal fonts)
[02:54] <Mez> It's a real pain in the ass.. and looks f**king ugly, and make my browsing prettry unbearable
[02:55] <Mez> + it throws off the layout of MANy webpages
[02:56] <Mez> It extends to like, menus aswell
[02:56] <seb128> does it happen under GNOME ?
[02:56] <seb128> or is a that kubuntu specific?
[02:56] <Mez> seb128: gnome wouldnt install for me in breezy, so I havent been able to try yet
[02:57] <ajmitch> Mez: you haven't backported gtk+ recently have you?
[02:57] <Mez> ajmitch, this is in breezy
[02:57] <Mez> theres no backports for breezy
[02:58] <ajmitch> ok..
[02:58] <Riddell> Mez: try starting your session using gdm
[02:59] <Riddell> it's because kdm tries to ask the monitor for pixels per inch while gdm just sets it to a fixed value
[03:00] <Mez> Riddell, I prefer gdm over kdm and FF iss etup to use the system setting for dpi
[03:01] <Mez> I changed it to use  /96dpi and now the font looks right in webpages but not in the application itself
[03:02] <janimo> lamont-away, xfce4-session xfce4-utils
[03:04] <seb128> lamont-away, infinity: could you push libgphoto2 gthumb eog gimp nautilus builds, they need a retry now than libexif12 is to main
[03:10] <lamont-away> seb128/janimo: done
[03:10] <lamont-away> well..
[03:10] <lamont-away> seb128: I need to look at gimp in a bit - I didn't have any logfile for the trivial give-back
[03:11] <lamont-away> janimo: xfce4-* given-back
[03:11] <janimo> lamont-away, thanks, what does given back mean is it a problem?
[03:12] <tseng> janimo: it means he is building it again.
[03:12] <tseng> given back to the buildd
[03:12] <lamont-away> janimo: when a build fails for any reason, the buildd is done with it until told otherwise.
[03:12] <lamont-away> certain failures are automatically dealt with, others require infinity/me to deal with them.
[03:12] <janimo> ok I was afraid it was given back to me :)
[03:13] <lamont-away> janimo: nah - if i was giving it back to you, I'd give you (admittedly pretty terse) reason why it was FTBFS (and would remain so until you re-uploaded)
[03:13] <janimo> lamont-away  is the distinction described somewhere or is it just secret ancient unwritten foo ?
[03:13] <seb128> lamont-away: thanks
[03:14] <lamont-away> build-depends that are missing are automated.  If something you build-depend on is uninstallable because it, in turn, depends on something that is uninstallable, that case isn't automated.
[03:14] <martinhj> seb128: seen mjg59 latly? I have runned some tests on my computer which he was interested in.. now I haven't seen him active here for many days
[03:14] <lamont-away> likewise, genuine errors in the compilation are manual, since they are likely to be, well, source-change-requiring
[03:14] <seb128> martinhj: nop
[03:14] <janimo> lamont-away, thanks for the info
[03:16] <lamont-away> np.  that's still way-incomplete, but is a pretty high-level overview
[03:17] <lamont-away> and on that note, /me -> work
[03:18] <tseng> have a good one, lamont-away 
[03:22] <janimo> elmo please sync xffm4, thanks
[03:22] <Mez> Riddell, still same with gdm
[04:00] <tseng> mdke: ubuntu-doc is up. linode rebooted me
[04:00] <tseng> mdke: beta system as i said
[04:04] <martinhj> does Ubuntu apply any more patches than those in linux-patches-ubuntu-x.x.x?
[04:29] <Mez> elmo/mdz: ping
[04:29] <bob2> Mez: oi
[04:29] <Mez> oi?
[04:29] <bob2> Mez: python-xdg in some "backports" repository is broken
[04:29] <janimo> elmo, please sync unison, unison-gtk (gtk2 at last)
[04:30] <bob2> and makes gnome-app-installer crash
[04:30] <Mez> bob2: whats the source package?
[04:31] <bob2> ...presuambly python-xdg
[04:31] <mako> Treenaks: that's so funny about the suse starting to send free cds
[04:31] <bob2> Amaranth: fill Mez in on details, kthx
[04:31] <Mez> pyxdg
[04:31] <Mez> bob2 - it's in the unofficial it seems :D
[04:31] <mako> clearly, they're trying to compete with ubuntu
[04:31] <bob2> ah, indeed, my apologies
[04:31] <Mez> I'll have a look I need to doa svn update
[04:31] <mako> the problem with that idea, of course, is that they'll be sending suse cds
[04:32] <bob2> thanks
[04:32] <mako> that's basically like sending hate mail
[04:32] <mako> well, not that bad.. but still ;)
[04:33] <Mez> wb lamont
[04:34] <jordi> mako: heh
[04:38] <philiKON> doko, ayt?
[04:39] <bob2> he's been idle 14 hours, tho
[04:42] <bddebian> Hello
[04:42] <pitti> philiKON: he is away until tomorrow afternoon (ca 1400 UTC)
[04:42] <philiKON> ic
[04:42] <philiKON> thanks
[05:24] <Kamion> lamont: (moving from #debian-devel) yeah, that's fine, build a new daily if you like
[05:25] <Kamion> WOOHOO, base-config progress bar AND a passthrough question
[05:26] <lamont> Kamion: well, neither mckinley kernel is booting on my mckinley.... so I'm gonna install an itanium kernel, and if that fails, then I'm gonna be mad
[05:26] <Kamion> with a fairly seriously hacked-up debconf, but there you go ...
[05:26] <tseng> Kamion: :)
[05:26] <ogra> seb128, ping
[05:27] <seb128> pong
[05:27] <seb128> Amaranth: around?
[05:27] <ogra> seb128, the dependency line from python-gnome2-dev seems strange: Depends: python (<< 2.5), python (>= 2.4)
[05:27] <ogra> shouldnt there be python-gnome2 in ?
[05:28] <seb128> yeah, probably
[05:28] <ogra> phew... and i was starting to go crazy with the gcompris error...
[05:29] <ogra> seb128, thanks :)
[05:57] <JaneW> Please note that there will be a special BreezyGoals update meeting tomorrow: ** 19:00 UTC on Friday 5 August 2005 in #ubuntu-meeting **
[05:58] <seb128> grumpf, what a nice day/time for a work meeting :p
[05:58] <pitti> argh
[05:58] <seb128> friday evening
[05:59] <seb128> pitti: oh, you too :)
[06:00] <mvo> JaneW: I may not be able to make it at that time (but I'll try)
[06:00] <pitti> JaneW: we know that we slack with the goals, but isn't that punishment a bit too harsh? :-)
[06:01] <JaneW> pitti: I agree, can you suggest another time tomorrow when Matt's up?
[06:01] <seb128> maybe if we all update the wiki now they will move it? :)
[06:01] <JaneW> 16:00?
[06:01] <JaneW> seb128: :P
[06:01] <seb128> 16:00 would be nicer imho
[06:01] <pitti> JaneW: we should ask mdz himself; if necessary, I'm available at 1900, too
[06:02] <Kamion> sorry, can't make 19:00 on Friday
[06:02] <JaneW> he said he's happy with 19:00
[06:02] <JaneW> Kamion: 16:00?
[06:02] <mvo> JaneW: slightly better but I'll only have 1h then. I'll travel from 17:00UTC-20:00UTC :/
[06:03] <JaneW> 15:00?
[06:03] <Kamion> 16:00 works as long as it's relatively short; I have to leave no later than 17:15
[06:03] <Kamion> I have a meeting at 17:30 with the priest who's marrying us
[06:04] <Kamion> perhaps a bit more notice could be given of whole-team meetings so that we have time to find a suitable time
[06:05] <JaneW> yes time would be nice, but we are just deciding to do this now...
[06:05] <JaneW> ok 15:00 or 16:00 we'll go with the consensus...
[06:06] <Kamion> any chance of using e-mail rather than IRC for this?
[06:06] <JaneW> ok 15?
[06:06] <JaneW> Kamion: for you maybe, but I have tried e-mail with very limited success ...
[06:07] <Kamion> many people avoid paying attention to IRC when concentrating on work, and those that do pay attention may well be asleep
[06:07] <Kamion> with e-mail, people at least have a chance to object; if they don't object, then silence implies consent
[06:08] <Kamion> but silence-implies-consent is pretty harsh for stuff decided on IRC
[06:08] <JaneW> oic, I thought you wants the meeting via e-mail
[06:08] <Kamion> oh no, clearly not
[06:08] <Kamion> for deciding a time, I mean
[06:08] <JaneW> sure I am about the send an e-mail off, I was just feeling the waters first
[06:09] <Kamion> ok, good
[06:09] <seb128> pitti: around?
[06:09] <pitti> yes :-)
[06:09] <seb128> pitti: are you busy?
[06:09] <pitti> seb128: no, I just finished my third cocktail and wonder what to do :-)
[06:10] <pitti> seb128: not more busy than usual, dealing with neverending security holes
[06:10] <seb128> pitti: is pycairo something easy to review for you? I would like to push pygtk/cairo this week 
[06:10] <pitti> seb128: I'm sure that's trivial; I also need to finish the libnotify review
[06:11] <JaneW> Please note that there will be a special BreezyGoals update meeting tomorrow: ** 15:00 UTC on Friday 5 August 2005 in #ubuntu-meeting **
[06:11] <seb128> k, so if you can push that somewhere on your planning for today/tomorrow that would be nice
[06:11] <seb128> JaneW: thanks :)
[06:11] <pitti> seb128: btw, did you see the page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLibnotify
[06:11] <seb128> pitti: yeah, I've pointed it to upstream this morning, he said he wish he had a ppc to debug the hang issue
[06:11] <pitti> seb128: did you test the package already? does it work?
[06:11] <pitti> seb128: no worries, I'll look into it
[06:11] <pitti> seb128: the package = pycairo
[06:11] <JaneW> seb128: glad to see you smiling.
[06:12] <pitti> JaneW: thanks, 1500 is much more human on weekends :-) this is pending confirmation from mdz?
[06:12] <seb128> pitti: pycairo? the package example works fine and pygtk 2.7.2 build happily with it
[06:13] <pitti> seb128: ok, sounds good :-) then it's just a little bureaucrazy, I do it now
[06:13] <JaneW> pitti: mdz doesn;t love the time, but said he'll conceed because it's short notice and friday :)
[06:13] <JaneW> we'll most likely be holding these meeting weekly now, most probably on a Thursday (possibly 20:00UTC)
[06:14] <tseng> weekly..?
[06:15] <tseng> does this involve all goals?
[06:15] <ogra> tseng, indeed
[06:16] <pitti> seb128: odd, a DD created the package and the changelog starts last year, so why isn't it in Debian?
[06:16] <JaneW> yes
[06:17] <dholbach> hellas!
[06:17] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
[06:17] <dholbach> martin! how are you?
[06:17] <pitti> fine, and you? how's the thesis?
[06:18] <seb128> pitti: cairo API still moving, not really, useful, etc et was waiting
[06:18] <seb128> pitti: he has sent an ITP some days ago and will upload the package to Debians oon
[06:18] <dholbach> pitti: coming on fine, today i feel much more confident :)
[06:19] <dholbach> sb! :)
[06:21] <seb128> pitti: the same maintainer as cairo/glitz, he maintains his packages here: http://cairographics.org/packages/debian/unstable/
[06:21] <seb128> dholbach: hey
[06:21] <Kamion> 20:00 UTC on Thursday? suck
[06:51] <jasoncohen> pitti, does CAN-2005-0806 apply to hoary's evolution? The CVE says it applies to 2.0.3 but it shows in http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/unfixed.html
[06:52] <pitti> jasoncohen: probably not, but I didn't check
[06:52] <pitti> jasoncohen: that's one of those "it's just a plain bug" things that have very low priority in my todo list
[06:58] <jasoncohen> pitti, i was wondering why ubuntu doesn't have something like fedora where security issues are marked by severity so users have an idea how important it is to upgrade
[06:59] <pitti> jasoncohen: well, I explain it using standard terms like "local/remote attacker" and "Denial of Service"/"Arbitrary code execution"
[07:00] <pitti> jasoncohen: that are objective terms, as opposed to my gut feeling what's important and what not
[07:00] <pitti> jasoncohen: the importance depends on which software the user actually needs and for what...
[07:00] <pitti> jasoncohen: do you really think it would make a big benefit?
[07:00] <pitti> jasoncohen: and if so, which criteria we should use for classification?
[07:01] <jasoncohen> pitti, well- i asked only because i often get the sense users don't install security updates in a timely fashion because they don't understand their importance
[07:01] <pitti> jasoncohen: but debian/ubuntu makes it so easy...
[07:02] <HiddenWolf> pitti: ask yourself if any new novice would know / notice update-manager
[07:02] <jasoncohen> pitti, for example users will clamor for the latest security updates on firefox but other system packages they'll leave unpatched as they don't understand the description of the security flaw. If there was something that said "critical" or "very imortant", users might be more likely to update
[07:03] <pitti> jasoncohen: ok, so let's just take today's apache upgrade - how would you rate it?
[07:03] <jasoncohen> pitti, i also think there should be something to identify update-manger for a new user- perhaps a popup that says "Security updates are available" with an option to close the popup...sounds too much like windows- but new users don't upgrade. i see it all the time
[07:03] <pitti> jasoncohen: a few percent of the users actually use apache as proxy, for them it is critical if they server a net, or irrelevant if they just use it for themselves
[07:04] <pitti> jasoncohen: users ignoring u-m? that's an interesting thing, I didn't think about that yet
[07:04] <Kamion> users don't upgrade Windows either though ...
[07:04] <jasoncohen> well, i'm not that worried about apache...one would hope that a server user would be a little more knowledgeable 
[07:04] <jasoncohen> Kamion, more do because it annoys you if you don't :)
[07:04] <pitti> well, mvo could use libnotify if security updates are available
[07:04] <Kamion> it took me six months to train my parents to install updates rather than ignoring them
[07:04] <HiddenWolf> pitti, jasoncohen: thos windows poups are noticable, and they work well.
[07:04] <jasoncohen> HiddenWolf, i agree- i think we need them
[07:05] <pitti> HiddenWolf: like libnotify`
[07:05] <pitti> ?
[07:05] <jasoncohen> the red circle isn't an obvious enough descriptor
[07:06] <HiddenWolf> pitti: not familiar with it. They give you a little comic-style text-baloon coming out of the notification area, from the application that requests user intervention. They grab attention, and direct it to the icon responsible - will dissapear either after action is taken or after a little while (configurable)
[07:06] <HiddenWolf> pitti: that's how winxp does it ^
[07:06] <jasoncohen> can we do something like that?
[07:07] <jasoncohen> i actually think the same thing should be done when you insert a new hardware device- "something like HP 750xi printer detected. Click here to configure your printer". That actually was discussed as a breezy goal
[07:08] <jasoncohen> pitti, honestly, i think *most* new users ignore the update manager or don't know about it
[07:08] <pitti> jasoncohen: that bubble is what I currently do for new sound cards
[07:08] <HiddenWolf> I especially like it that the notification comes out of the icon responsible for it. That connects the warning to an icon, so later on, if you see the icon, you'll know it's updates waiting for you.
[07:08] <jasoncohen> they dont' know there are updates since the only "message" is the red circle
[07:09] <pitti> ok, I talk to mvo to add libnotify support
[07:09] <jasoncohen> pitti, also, is there any way to limit update-manager to security updates?
[07:09] <HiddenWolf> jasoncohen: stick to stable. ;)
[07:09] <pitti> jasoncohen: for stable releases there will be only scurity updates anyway
[07:09] <jasoncohen> perhaps security/bugfix updates. backports users might not want to upgrade through update-notifier
[07:10] <jasoncohen> they also might be less likely to update if they see updates every few days
[07:10] <Kamion> actually that's not true, base-config includes hoary-updates in sources.list by default as well as hoary-security
[07:10] <Kamion> but we generally want people to take updates from hoary-updates by default
[07:10] <jasoncohen> pitti, by default a user will receive updates from hoary-security and hoary-updates. but now that backports is official, we must recognize its presence
[07:11] <jasoncohen> it would be very easy to do
[07:11] <HiddenWolf> unfortunatly he has a piont. :P
[07:11] <Kamion> backports / development release users might well want to upgrade through update-notifier (especially once it / something similar learns to dist-upgrade), but they probably won't want to be nagged about it by popup windows
[07:11] <HiddenWolf> Kamion: notifications should be configurable of course.
[07:12] <Kamion> sensible defaults > configuration
[07:12] <jasoncohen> just have a choice for "View Security & Bug Fix Updates Only" and then if the user enables that have it read from /etc/apt/sources.list.security which only needs to have hoary-security and hoary-updates
[07:12] <HiddenWolf> Kamion: true, but you'll bug the hell out of people using development versions if you default it to 'stable' settings.
[07:13] <jasoncohen> Kamion, or- if libnotify were intelligent, it could only create a popup IF the update was from hoary-security or hoary-updates
[07:13] <HiddenWolf> While we're at it, in ~6 months time, will *something* popup a notice that warty is obsolete?
[07:14] <jasoncohen> Kamion, update-manager will be able to do a dist-upgrade and there will be a simple distribution upgrade path- the user will be notified a new version exists and they'll be able to upgrade without any configuration changes through update-manger
[07:15] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: obviously - perhaps you are mistaking what I think "sensible defaults" would be
[07:15] <Kamion> jasoncohen: hasn't been done yet though
[07:15] <jasoncohen> cron-apt works the same way- you can use an altnerative sources.list for security updates only
[07:15] <jasoncohen> Kamion, it's a breezygoal...i'm hoping very much that it gets done
[07:15] <Kamion> breezy goal doesn't imply gets done, unfortunately
[07:16] <Kamion> let's hope so, but still
[07:16] <jasoncohen> well- what's nice for new users is that http://niran.org/code/soc/ did get done
[07:16] <Kamion> jasoncohen: and in any case I said "once [it]  learns to dist-upgrade", so I did know about the goal already
[07:17] <jasoncohen> we will see a dramatically improved gnome-app-install that has a comprehensive discription + possibley homepage and screenshots for every app with a .desktop file and it will be organized well and easy to use for new users
[07:17] <jasoncohen> and i talked to the developer of that breezygoal last night. he's about done
[07:18] <jasoncohen> he's also developed a way for users to install software from a developer's website using synaptic. you click a link which loads an xml file that tells synaptic to install package. it can't add repos so it should be secure
[07:19] <HiddenWolf> jasoncohen: nice!
[07:19] <HiddenWolf> I can see a load of problems with that, but nice!
[07:19] <jasoncohen> it'll be very cool for the wiki pages
[07:20] <jasoncohen> we'll hopefully be able to add a link to install packages right from the wiki page
[07:20] <Kamion> erm
[07:20] <jasoncohen> i would love to do that on my multimedia page
[07:20] <pef> bye !
[07:20] <Kamion> so you know the way Ubuntu comes with no firewall preconfigured, because users have to make an explicit decision to install server packages?
[07:21] <jasoncohen> yup
[07:21] <jasoncohen> Kamion, there are no open ports by default
[07:21] <Kamion> I know that, I was in the original discussions :P
[07:21] <sivang> Kamion: I'm still amazed by the reaction I get to this by converting people :) "Huh?! How come there is not firewall?" 
[07:21] <Kamion> my point is that "can't add repos" doesn't mean it's automatically secure
[07:21] <HiddenWolf> jasoncohen: what'd be cool is if the documentation gnome-app-install shows a description from a wikipedia style package wiki.
[07:21] <Kamion> because now, anyone can cause a server to be present by convincing a user to click on a link
[07:22] <jasoncohen> Kamion, it'll still tell a user what's being installed
[07:22] <Kamion> "<gobbledegook> OK?"
[07:22] <HiddenWolf> jasoncohen: so you face the description
[07:22] <Kamion> (which is what the dialog box will look like to people not expecting it)
[07:22] <HiddenWolf> package would be unauthenticated, but that's not scary enough.
[07:23] <HiddenWolf> s/face/fake
[07:23] <jasoncohen> no- it wouldn't. apache2 would authenticate for example
[07:23] <jasoncohen> anything in ubuntu's repos would authenticate just fine
[07:23] <jasoncohen> Kamion, how about something like g-a-i?
[07:23] <Kamion> does that not scare you? we have a lot of server packages, many of which should not be installed unless you know what you're doing
[07:24] <jasoncohen> Kamion, http://niran.org/code/soc/ - view the last picture
[07:24] <Kamion> I don't see the relevance ...
[07:25] <jasoncohen> Kamion, we could have a simple popup with the name of a program and a simple description. also, we could add a warning, "Are you sure you want to add these server pacakges. They may cause security vulnerabilities"
[07:25] <jasoncohen> Kamion, mandriva does that during install
[07:26] <Kamion> I just don't think that warning will be heeded
[07:26] <Kamion> I am really scared of anything that installs packages based on something you can do in ordinary web browsing, which is often hideously insecure
[07:26] <Kamion> warning or no warning
[07:27] <Kamion> at UDU we discussed only ever installing packages from something that used some of the widgets from gtkmozembed etc., but not from firefox itself
[07:27] <jasoncohen> but how is this different from someone saying on a webpage- if you want gaim run "sudo apt-get install gaim apache2 mysql"
[07:27] <jasoncohen> *mysql-server
[07:27] <Kamion> that requires conscious action from a user to do, and it's pretty clear what's happening if they have to explicitly invoke a package management tool
[07:28] <jasoncohen> and it's not going to be obvious if synaptic comes up and asks to install something?
[07:28] <Kamion> whereas links can be obfuscated, and too many people are conditioned to OKing dialog boxes
[07:28] <Kamion> if synaptic comes up, maybe; not if just a dialog saying "are you sure you want to install this package?" comes up
[07:29] <elmo> ybin: Please add ofboot=<path> where <path> is the OpenFirmware path to /dev/sda2 to /etc/yaboot.conf
[07:29] <jasoncohen> Kamion, i think it brings up synaptic with the package(s) enabled
[07:29] <jasoncohen> to install
[07:29] <Kamion> but synaptic coming up seems to be an obvious target for usability types to eliminate, so I suspect that would go away, and then we'd be left in the terrifying scenario
[07:29] <elmo> kamion: I'm getting that with a breezy kernel (on a hoary systme) - have you seen that, and/or do you know what it wants? :)
[07:30] <jasoncohen> pitti, so, are you opposed to the idea of having a security/bug fix update only choice for update-manager?
[07:30] <Kamion> elmo: what does 'ofpath /dev/sda2' say?
[07:30] <elmo> ofpath: /proc/device-tree is broken.  Do not use BootX to boot, use yaboot.
[07:30] <elmo> ofpath: The yaboot HOWTO can be found here: http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/doc
[07:31] <pitti> jasoncohen: not really, but I'm not opposed to a special notification if there is a security update
[07:31] <jasoncohen> pitti, ok, would that be difficult to implement and is it something someone is interested in doing? i unfortunately don't have any programming knowledge
[07:32] <pitti> jasoncohen: can you please talk to mvo when he comes back?
[07:32] <jasoncohen> ok
[07:32] <pitti> u-m is his baby
[07:32] <pitti> thanks
[07:32] <Kamion> elmo: muh?
[07:33] <elmo> Kamion: yeah, neat
[07:33] <elmo> Kamion: it's davis, FWIW
[07:33] <Kamion> ls -l /proc/device-tree | grep -q ^lr
[07:33] <elmo> and ofpath seems to work without privs
[07:33] <Kamion> that's the test
[07:34] <Kamion> no symlinks in the top level of /proc/device-tree - wtf?
[07:34] <Kamion> like, er, minor details like /proc/device-tree/pci
[07:34] <jasoncohen> is Michael Vogt mvo?
[07:34] <Kamion> yes
[07:34] <elmo> this is a fairly early breezy kernel, I'm trying to upgrade to a more recent one
[07:34] <pitti> dholbach, ajmitch: could one of you please merge ethereal from Debian? it fixes a lot of vulns
[07:34] <jasoncohen> ah, so he's the one working on http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemUpgradeTool
[07:35] <dholbach> pitti: i'll look into it
[07:35] <elmo> kamion: I might just reboot into the new one, and see if /proc/device-tree is happier
[07:35] <pitti> dholbach, ajmitch: it almost looks like the package can be synced
[07:35] <dholbach> pitti: ok, i'll double check
[07:35] <pitti> dholbach: thanks :-)
[07:37] <Kamion> elmo: you'd need a ppc kernel guru to check if device-tree's meant to be that way; kinda hard to check from userspace
[07:37] <elmo> ok
[07:37] <Kamion> elmo: doing 'dev / ls' at an OF prompt might be worthwhile, see if it has the links or aliases or however they show up at that level
[07:38] <Kamion> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 12 2005-08-04 18:32 /proc/device-tree/pci -> pci@f0000000
[07:38] <Kamion> stuff like that should really be in /proc/device-tree/
[07:41] <dholbach> elmo: could you please sync ethereal from unstable, when you find the time?
[07:41] <elmo> Kamion: latest breezy does the same thing - I'll pester the kernel folks
[07:42] <elmo> dholbach: ok to override ubuntu changes?\
[07:42] <dholbach> yes, go ahead!
[07:43] <zul> hmmm?
[07:44] <pitti> dholbach: thx for cross-checking
[07:44] <dholbach> elmo: is somebody else doing syncs these days? some motus wanted to know what to do about syncs, when you're not available ... and i couldn't tell me for sure, because i wasn't around that much
[07:44] <elmo> dholbach: just have them mail me
[07:44] <dholbach> alright, i will tell them
[07:44] <dholbach> elmo: thank you
[07:45] <elmo> (if I'm not around
[07:45] <elmo> + otherwise, on IRC is obviously fine)
[07:56] <shaya> uh, are there supposed to be .ko files in linux-restricted-modules?
[07:56] <shaya> there dont seem to be any
[07:57] <jasoncohen> shaya, there are
[07:57] <jasoncohen> shaya, i think you're looking at the dummy package linux-restricted-modules-arch
[07:57] <shaya> uh?
[07:57] <shaya> spotter@dent:/lib/linux-restricted-modules$ find . -name '*.ko' -print
[07:57] <shaya> spotter@dent:/lib/linux-restricted-modules$
[07:58] <jasoncohen> shaya, dpkg -L linux-restricted-modules-`uname -r`
[07:58] <shaya> spotter@dent:/lib/linux-restricted-modules$ dpkg -L linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12-6-686 |grep ko
[07:58] <shaya> spotter@dent:/lib/linux-restricted-modules$
[07:58] <jasoncohen> oh, ok
[07:59] <jasoncohen> when did that package enter breezy?
[07:59] <shaya> today
[07:59] <Treenaks> hey
[08:00] <Treenaks> where'd glxinfo go?
[08:04] <Kamion> shaya: they're linked at run-time
[08:06] <shaya> really?
[08:06] <shaya> how does that work?
[08:06] <mdz> shaya: pong
[08:06] <Kamion> see linux-restricted-modules-common
[08:06] <shaya> and what's the point?
[08:06] <shaya> lrm-manager has no manpage
[08:14] <Treenaks> glxinfo is gone :(
[08:23] <Amaranth> Treenaks: glxinfo is unimportant
[08:24] <janimonoses> tseng you can test xfce now :)
[08:27] <Mez> Amaranth: ping
[08:28] <Amaranth> pong
[08:29] <Mez> Amaranth, bob2 was telling me something was breaking something in BP ..
[08:29] <Mez> and that you knew about it
[08:29] <Amaranth> yeah, pyxdg needs to conflict with gnome-app-install
[08:30] <Mez> shouldnt that conflict in breezy?
[08:32] <Amaranth> well, no
[08:32] <Amaranth> gnome-app-install is turning into niran's new project
[08:32] <Amaranth> which works with pyxdg 0.14
[08:33] <Mez> so why should it conflict?
[08:34] <Amaranth> it should in backports
[08:34] <Amaranth> because you don't have niran's shiny stuff
[08:34] <Mez> then let us have it
[08:34] <Amaranth> we don't have it either :P
[08:35] <Amaranth> i suppose you could fix g-a-i in breezy and backport it
[08:36] <Mez> *shrugs*
[08:36] <shaya> well, however restricted modules are supposed to work, they dont seem to work well
[08:37] <Kamion> Amaranth: a versioned Conflicts would be fine
[08:37] <shaya> just booted into .12 and it couldn't load madwifi
[08:38] <tseng> janimonoses: rock on
[08:39] <Amaranth> shaya: linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12 isn't even in the archives yet, is it?
[08:40] <Amaranth> and when i built it on my own it seemed to be split into a bunch of smaller packages
[08:42] <Mez> pitti: ping
[08:48] <pitti> Hi Mez 
[08:52] <shaya> Amaranth: it is
[08:52] <Mez> hey pitti, just looking at libgda2 ... and it needs a lil tweak to be able to be backported,
[08:52] <Mez> just wondering if you'd make the tweak and upload
[08:52] <pitti> which tweak?
[08:53] <pitti> Mez: if you send me a debdiff, I can take a look at it and upload, no problem
[08:53] <Mez> pitti: it's a tiny change
[08:53] <Mez> not worth a debdiff IMO
[08:53] <Mez> in control.in change the Build-Depends on libpq-dev to libpq-dev | postgresql-dev
[08:54] <pitti> ah, I see
[08:54] <Mez> musta missed that before or somethign
[08:54] <sabdfl> elmo: do you have a handy list of the current uploaders to main and universe?
[08:54] <pitti> Mez: but why not just change the build-dep in the backport?
[08:55] <elmo> sabdfl: I can make one
[08:55] <sabdfl> elmo: danke
[08:55] <Mez> pitti: because we dont have access to upload to backports
[08:56] <Mez> pitti: everything has to be fixed in breezy, then backported
[08:56] <Mez> evening sabdfl :D
[08:56] <pitti> Mez: ok, if it helps you...
[08:56] <sabdfl> hey Mez
[08:56] <Mez> pitti - thanks a lot :D
[08:57] <pitti> Mez: hm, odd...
[08:57] <Mez> odd?
[08:57] <elmo> sabdfl: sent
[08:57] <pitti> Mez: it seems that the current breezy libgda already depends *only* on postgresql-dev
[08:57] <Mez> pitti: thats not true
[08:57] <pitti> Mez: ah, libgda23
[08:58] <pitti> libgda2, even
[08:58] <pitti> I looked at libgda
[08:58] <Mez> http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/source/libgda2
[08:59] <Mez> (pitti: if thats the case libgda should be fixed aswell, postgresql-dev is a transitional pacakge)
[08:59] <mdz> pitti: it's a lot cleaner for us to share sources between breezy and backports: no merging, no human error, etc.
[09:00] <janimonoses> elmo please sync xfce4-terminal, thanks
[09:00] <pitti> Mez: uploaded
[09:01] <Mez> pitti: thanks :D
[09:01] <pitti> You're welcome :-)
[09:01] <Mez> elmo, can you re-add libgda2 when It's built?
[09:01] <Mez> and lamont/infinity can you clear the dep-wait on it please
[09:01] <Mez> mdz: did you get my email about mono backports
[09:03] <elmo> janimonoses: done
[09:08] <elmo> bah, kernel-package is horribly unfriendly to ppc64
[09:10] <jasoncohen> Mez, can you upload totem 1.1.1 from mirrormax's backports to the official backport mirror? totem 1.0.1 can't play part files, so you have to wait until a download is complete to play a song. that is fixed in 1.1.1
[09:10] <lamont> elmo: how so?
[09:11] <elmo> lamont: it forces the architecture to ppc
[09:11] <lamont> ew
[09:11] <lamont> it's helping...
[09:11] <elmo> not really :P
[09:11] <elmo> the kernel gets it right, it's make-kpkg explicitly overriding the kernel's own idea of architecture
[09:11] <teferi> hey, will you guys kill me if i ask about a bizarre problem i've found in breezy+newest kernel package+newest linux-restricted-modules?
[09:12] <mdz> Mez: yes
[09:14] <teferi> well, i'll ask anyway. i've installed the new linux-restricted-modules and run lrm-manager. /lib/modules/2.6.12-6-686/kernel/drivers/volatile exists and is populated as expected. but if i try to modprobe, say, the atheros driver (ath_pci), it silently fails. the module doesn't show up in lsmod (or /proc/modules, obviously), but if i try modprobing it again, stracing modprobe shows that init_module returns EEXIST...
[09:14] <janimonoses> Mez, how does one request a backport?
[09:15] <ogra> janimonoses, you ask Mez :)
[09:18] <teferi> if no one feels like helping me, that's okay, just tell me and i'll vanish. i hate to bother you guys, but this is a real head-scratcher
[09:18] <janimonoses> Mez, could you backport the wx2.6 packages please
[09:18] <Burgundavia> pitti, have you had a chance to look at a few more of the edubuntu main inclusion stuff?
[09:19] <pitti> not yet, sorry
[09:19] <highvoltage> teferi: try #ubuntu
[09:19] <Burgundavia> pitti, np
[09:19] <teferi> highvoltage: i have. they're baffled too
[09:19] <jasoncohen> teferi, you should post a bug report. this isn't really the place to ask for support. Breezy is still a development release so things are expected to be borken
[09:19] <jasoncohen> *broken
[09:19] <teferi> yeah, i know
[09:19] <teferi> oh well, to bugzilla I go
[09:19] <jasoncohen> teferi, linux-restricted-modules was just added today
[09:19] <jasoncohen> in breezy
[09:19] <teferi> jasoncohen: yep
[09:19] <jasoncohen> give it a while
[09:30] <Mez> janimonoses, please email it to ubuntu-backports@lists.ubuntu.com
[09:35] <janimonoses> mez, done :)
[09:43] <x0r> hello people
[09:43] <x0r> I just got a strange error after upgrading my xorg on breezy
[09:43] <x0r> my xorg.conf seems not to work anymore, I also looked around and didn't found anything
[09:44] <x0r> running Xorg -configure to check my xorg.conf gives me: .... Missing output drivers. Configuration failed.
[09:44] <x0r> any idea?
[09:44] <Mez> x0r, support is on #ubuntu - X is b0rked, but try sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[09:45] <x0r> doesn't work
[09:45] <x0r> I've tried almost everything
[09:45] <Amaranth> go bad to hoary?
[09:45] <Amaranth> err, back
[09:45] <x0r> maybe something changed in the development cycle
[09:45] <x0r> no
[09:46] <Amaranth> X is working here
[09:46] <x0r> I'd like to use breezy and to enjoy gcc 4.0 and a fast machine
[09:46] <x0r> also for my persnal software development
[09:46] <Amaranth> gcc 4 doesn't make things faster
[09:46] <Mez> Kamion: ping
[09:46] <x0r> I know
[09:46] <Kamion> Mez: pong
[09:47] <x0r> I like the up to date libraries and also an up to date gnome ;)
[09:47] <Mez> Kamion, just looking at MOTU-Merge, there's a kernel package for d-i ...
[09:47] <Kamion> Mez: which one?
[09:47] <Mez> is it even needed in universe?>
[09:47] <x0r> @Amaranth: do you have an nvidia graphics card?
[09:47] <Mez> linux-kernel-di-i386-2.6
[09:47] <Amaranth> x0r: nope
[09:47] <Kamion> Mez: no, it's probably best to remove it
[09:47] <Mez> Kamion: morgue candidate?
[09:47] <Amaranth> x0r: pretty sure you need to use the open source nv driver right now though
[09:47] <Kamion> likewise linux-kernel-di-*, pretty much
[09:47] <Kamion> Mez: yes
[09:48] <Mez> cool :d
[09:48] <Kamion> we've built those from the kernel source proper since forever
[09:48] <x0r> @Amaranth: I've tried the open source nv driver, that comes with xorg -> but it also doesn't work :(
[09:48] <Mez> Kamion: so... what should the reason be?
[09:49] <Kamion> Mez: superseded by linux-source-2.6.*
[09:50] <Amaranth> x0r: based on the little ammount of info you've actually given i'd say the answer is give up on X or go back to hoary
[09:50] <Amaranth> x0r: unless you give more info those are the only choices
[09:51] <x0r> ok
[09:51] <x0r> what info do you need
[09:51] <x0r> I don't know what can help you
[09:51] <Amaranth> your xorg log file
[09:51] <x0r> my xorg.conf isn't useful I think
[09:51] <x0r> because it worked a few days ago
[09:51] <shaya> Kamion: what's the reasoning for the new system w/ restricted modules?
[09:52] <x0r> wait
[09:52] <x0r> I'll post it
[09:52] <Kamion> shaya: I didn't have anything to do with it, I was just pointing out what I could see in the archive
[09:53] <shaya> yea, it dont work
[09:53] <shaya> trying to read up on it
[09:53] <Kamion> mdz: can I move OEMInstaller to Completed, do you think? it almost certainly still needs more development work, but it's in the "responses to testing" and "large bug fixes" categories rather than the "code not there" category
[09:57] <Mez> Kamion: this cool: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MorgueCandidates
[09:58] <x0r> here's my xorg.conf
[09:58] <x0r> # /etc/X11/xorg.conf (xorg X Window System server configuration file)
[09:58] <Kamion> Mez: yes, except (a) i386v -> i386, (b) it's spelt "superseded" not "superceded" :)
[09:58] <x0r> wait
[10:01] <Mez> Kamion, I see your adverse to morgueing aboot
[10:02] <Mez> what's the point at the moment if it wont even build - and is just wasting space
[10:03] <xor> Section "Files"
[10:03] <xor> 	FontPath	"unix/:7100"			# local font server
[10:03] <xor> 	# if the local font server has problems, we can fall back on these
[10:03] <xor> 	FontPath	"/usr/share/X11/fonts/misc"
[10:03] <xor> 	FontPath	"/usr/share/X11/fonts/cyrillic"
[10:04] <Kamion> Mez: we have plenty of stuff that's arch-specific; note that we have three unofficial ports already, and there has been interest in the others
[10:04] <Kamion> s/the others/others/
[10:04] <Kamion> I don't recall if there's been specific interest in alpha, but I really don't see why we should intentionally make life harder for such people
[10:05] <Kamion> ideally, they should be able to set up a buildd and build their way up the usual chain
[10:08] <zAo^> can I upgrade the nvidia-glx pkg without losing DRI?
[10:08] <zAo^> the new pkg that is
[10:11] <mdz> Kamion: that'd be appropriate, then, yes
[10:12] <hunger> Which deb contains the vmlinuz file now? linux-image-686 is empty except for some docs here.
[10:13] <hunger> linux-restricted-modules is empty as well:-(
[10:13] <Kamion> ah, s/Completed/Implemented/ now I see
[10:14] <Kamion> linux-image-686 is a metapackage, the same as it always was. Look at its dependencies.
[10:17] <sabdfl> hey guys, i think we should start keeping track of the main-uploaders and universe-uploaders in launchpad
[10:18] <hunger> Kamion: You are right of course... sorry for the stupid question. I've been running around for 18h straight now:-(
[10:20] <sabdfl> dholbach, ogra: we need a universe-uploaders team in LP
[10:20] <sabdfl> we need a strict policy on who can add people to that
[10:20] <ogra> ok
[10:20] <sabdfl> probably, the tech board should be the owner of that team
[10:20] <ogra> yup
[10:20] <sabdfl> because tech board people need to approve universe-uploaders
[10:21] <sabdfl> should i go ahead and create it?
[10:21] <ogra> yep
[10:21] <ogra> :)
[10:21] <sabdfl> i'll add you two, as admins, would you then add the other motu?
[10:21] <ogra> sure...
[10:21] <ogra> is there a way to copy contents between teams ?
[10:21] <ogra> we already have the MOTU team for malone, i could just copy it
[10:23] <tortoise_> new login has stopped working in breezy, and I cant switch to other virtual terminals
[10:24] <tortoise_> is this known aboot
[10:26] <ogra> tortoise_, works fine here on a up to date breezy machine
[10:31] <Mez> sabdfl: I assume you're planning to make it so uploads work through LP?
[10:31] <ogra> Mez, not only uploads
[10:31] <Mez> sabdfl, that's a great idea :D hehe :d and would make elmo's life a lot easier
[10:31] <Mez> ogra: not only uploads ... /
[10:31] <Mez> s/\//\?/
[10:31] <sabdfl> Mez: yup
[10:31] <ogra> Mez, LP will be the center of the world for ubuntu development once its done
[10:32] <sabdfl> Mez: also, storage of patches and packages under development
[10:32] <ogra> and not only ubuntu hopefully
[10:32] <sabdfl> and allowing non-members to publish their own patches etc
[10:32] <Mez> sabdfl: sweet :D you've gotta love ubuntu for making innovations eh?
[10:33] <sabdfl> Mez: should be fun ;-)
[10:33] <Mez> sabdfl: yeah, but Ubuntu makes so many changes to the way people develop - is it ever gonna be finised?
[10:34] <sabdfl> Mez: i hope not, i would have to find something else to get up for in the morning
[10:34] <tseng> Mez: about half of the products are public now, malone, rosetta, baz
[10:34] <tseng> the rest are more specific to building the distro
[10:34] <tseng> besides hct is interesting to other distros I guess
[10:35] <tseng> everyone is really looking forward to that one.
[10:35] <Mez> sabdfl: I usually find my gf kicking me in the back helps me get up in the morning
[10:36] <sabdfl> Mez: the whole idea is to accelerate open source development with better collaborative tools
[10:37] <Mez> sabdfl, I know, I saw the video of your speech at debconf :D
[10:38] <Mez> sabdfl: and hats off to you for funding it: I can see you being marked down as a prominent figure in geek history
[10:40] <pitti> oi, where is seb128???
[10:44] <martinhj> is there a list of patches used in the ubuntu kernel?
[10:46] <Mez> hmm: does anyone have any FF plkugin making experience
[10:46] <Mez> it'd be so useful to hve a search plugin to search packages.ubuntu.com/packages.debian.org
[10:48] <Amaranth> Mez: That'd mostly be a copy/paste of another search plugin.
[10:49] <Mez> Amaranth, maybe :D but still :D be usefule
[10:49] <Mez> and martinhj try http://patches.ubuntu.com/patches/
[10:49] <Amaranth> Mez: I know, I'm telling you to copy/paste another plugin. :P
[10:50] <martinhj> Mez: tried that one.. I mean like a list in a wiki or something
[10:51] <Mez> Amaranth, I wouldnt know where to start
[10:52] <martinhj> there is a package in the main repository called ubuntu-kernel-patches or something.. is that a full list of all the patches used against a vanilla Linus kernel.org Linux kernel?
[10:59] <majic> can anyone verify that the ruby 1.8.2 package made it into backports yet?
[10:59] <Mez> majic, erm, we're fixing a few things, it should be there then
[10:59] <Mez> (It's registering as needing a NEW when it shouldnt be
[10:59] <majic> alrighty then
[11:01] <elmo> Riddell: ?
[11:01] <Riddell> elmo: ?
[11:02] <elmo> kio-apt's debian/bug.control doesn't seem appropriate?
[11:02] <Riddell> elmo: you're right there
[11:03] <Riddell> elmo: the package is based on one from him (he's the author of kio-apt)
[11:05] <ajmitch> morning
[11:05] <elmo> sure - I haven't rejected it, but you could fix our package not to install that file in the next upload?
[11:06] <Riddell> elmo: ok
[11:07] <dholbach> sabdfl, ogra: isn't the "motu" team just ok?
[11:08] <ogra> dholbach, the motu team currently contains only administrators
[11:08] <ogra> dholbach, sabdfl wants something TB controlled
[11:08] <dholbach> ogra: but it just contains motus, which are universe uploaders
[11:08] <ogra> yes
[11:09] <dholbach> ogra: oh well... i thought they'd be happy to not having to do it themselves :)
[11:09] <dholbach> ogra: aren't we good at organizing ourselves? :-p
[11:09] <ogra> dholbach, i guess its our job to finally add them :)
[11:10] <robitaille> dholbach: next step is to turn on the calendar in the MOTU's LP page and add the MOTU meetings in there :)
[11:10] <dholbach> ogra: it's just that two groups to take care of is ... :)
[11:10] <ajmitch> robitaille: yes, certainly :)
[11:10] <dholbach> ogra: i asked about adding a mailing list to the malone team: it's no problem
[11:11] <ajmitch> dholbach: but if the 2nd group is only editable by the TB, since it will control upload rights
[11:11] <dholbach> ogra: so everybody can sign up for universe-bugs or something - if they want to help us
[11:11] <robitaille> I finally found yesterday how to subscribe to other LP calendars; it's a great feature
[11:11] <Mez> it is :D
[11:11] <dholbach> robitaille: i saw it today :)
[11:11] <Mez> dholbach, the second group will be only controllable by you and ogra and TB
[11:12] <ajmitch> dholbach: great, can some of us be signed up automatically? :)
[11:12] <dholbach> ajmitch: the mailing list isnt created yet and i can only hope we don't hit anal restrictions towards it :)
[11:12] <ajmitch> dholbach: patience..
[11:14] <dholbach> hey mvo :)
[11:15] <ajmitch> hi mvo 
[11:15] <mvo> hey ajmitch!
[11:15] <ogra> dholbach, amd64 and troubles in one sentence from *you* ?
[11:16] <dholbach> ogra: ask mvo
[11:16] <\sh> evening..guys
[11:16] <mvo> ogra: don't ask, much hw dealer seems to be unable to build a amd64 for me that actually works :/
[11:16] <ogra> mvo, did you think about the fact that we have backported main packages now for synaptic (i.e. ubuntu logo for main packages)
[11:17] <ajmitch> hmm, security bug on malone, I wonder if it's on pitti's list
[11:17] <mvo> ogra: arg ... no
[11:17] <ogra> mvo, cant you do that yourself ? i never trust HW dealers
[11:17] <pitti> ajmitch: which one?
[11:17] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1176
[11:17] <mvo> ogra: I can (and did all the time until now). but I wanted to try a different way this time. 1. give money to dealer 2. get shinny pc
[11:18] <ajmitch> ok it has a CAN & debian bug, so it probably is :)
[11:19] <ajmitch> pitti: it's on the fixed list, I'll close the malone bug
[11:19] <majic> is reading the new debian maintainers guide the best way to break into debian packaging? Or is there any Ubuntu specifics that I should need to know.
[11:20] <Riddell> majic: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPackagingGuide has some ideas
[11:20] <ogra> majic, nope, debian NM guide is fine... 
[11:20] <Riddell> majic: also hang around on #ubuntu-motu
[11:20] <pitti> ajmitch: probably fixed in breezy, but not in hoary&warty
[11:21] <ogra> majic, additionally the DevelopeResources wikipage is of some interest
[11:21] <ajmitch> pitti: ah ok
[11:21] <ogra> *DeveloperResources
[11:21] <majic> I've been looking at the DevelopersResources wiki-page
[11:22] <majic> I'm just trying to figure out what exactly I need since there seems to be alot of information out there
[11:22] <martinhj> ogra: does gnome-power work for you? it doesn't show any icon here....
[11:23] <ogra> martinhj, run gnome-power-manager from the commandline or via alt-f2 then enable the icon in the settings gui
[11:23] <ogra> this version doesnt do very much yet... its quite outdated... the new version waits for the new dbus
[11:24] <ogra> it will only show your battery status
[11:24] <martinhj> ogra: ah, ok.. but the problem was acutually that the gnome-power daemon didn't run..
[11:24] <ogra> or UPS if you got one
[11:24] <mdz> infinity: are the livefs build logs published?  if not, please arrange for them to be published
[11:24] <martinhj> shouldn't it be added to gnome-session by default?
[11:25] <ogra> martinhj, if it is in main
[11:25] <martinhj> ah, ok
[11:25] <ogra> martinhj, the new version will work differently and split out an additional powermanger package, that has to be approved newly
[11:26] <martinhj> will it work with acpi-support in Ubuntu, or will it all change?
[11:26] <ogra> it will be a frontend to the current power management infrastructure
[11:27] <mdz> mvo: is progress-reporting ready to be released?
[11:27] <martinhj> ogra: and edit /etc/default/acpi-support and such?
[11:28] <ogra> martinhj, huh ? 
[11:28] <ogra> why would you want to edit that file ?
[11:28] <mvo> mdz: could you please check if you merged my latest changes? if Kamion tested it sucessfully with his base-config work I think it's ready
[11:29] <mvo> mdz: I would like to do a new python-apt release. the python interface was reviewed by jamesh and ddaa and I reworked it according to there input
[11:30] <martinhj> ogra: at least changes in that file changes the log out dialog, so I thought gnome-power-manager could be a frontend to that file
[11:31] <ogra> martinhj, gnome-power is a frontend to hal it will call the functions your logout dialog uses on some conditional events...
[11:31] <ogra> i.e. shutdown or hibernate if battery is at 1%
[11:31] <martinhj> ok
[11:38] <shaya> mdz: your bug is fixed
[11:38] <shaya> or I would hope so
[11:43] <windex> i would just like to say, i have been lurking in here a couple of days, and out of the linux distributions i've worked with, this is both the most civil and the most sane development channel out of all of them. :)
[11:47] <mdz> shaya: oh?  that's great.  I didn't see anything on the unionfs list about it
[11:48] <Mez> mdz: so what do we want to do about backproting mono
[11:48] <mdz> windex: thanks :-)
[11:49] <mdz> Mez: if it needs bootstrapping, that's a buildd admin issue (lamont/infinity)
[11:49] <tseng> lamont LOVES mono :D
[11:49] <lamont>  /me looks for something to hit tseng with
[11:50] <tseng> lamont: i only poke fun because I like you.
[11:50] <lamont> hehe
[11:50] <mdz> Mez: regarding the packages you said needed new processing, I don't see any of those in the queue
[11:50] <Mez> mdz: I believe lamont and elmo have fixed that now
[11:51] <mdz> I don't see ruby-defaults binaries in hoary-backports yet
[11:51] <Mez> mdz: interpreters/ruby-defaults_1.8.2-1~hoary1: Building by buildd+vernadsky [optional:uncompiled] 
[11:51] <lamont> mdz: the overrides were fixed at :03
[11:51] <Mez> mez: it was showing as unkown in LKiss
[11:51] <elmo> mdz: miscommunication
[11:51] <Mez> Lists
[11:52] <elmo> mdz: they were missing overrides due to a config screwup, they  were never NEW
[11:52] <Mez> and the buildlog says it's been built successfulyy... so lol convused over that
[11:52] <elmo> and being missing in the overrides breaks our buildds
[11:53] <Mez> :D
[11:53] <lamont> and as for it's failure to show up, at least vernadsky needs a little hit with a cluebat
[11:56] <mdz> lamont: can you arrange for the livefs build logs to be synced out to your buildLogs dir?
[11:56] <mdz> I would like to be able to show people how to help when they ask about the live cd builds ;-)
[11:58] <Mez> mdz: thinking of making a backports Live CD when everythings working properly with backports: what do you think?
[11:58] <lamont> mdz: I'll add those to the work I'm doing on the logs between now and monday
[11:59] <mdz> Mez: interesting idea, but it will involve some legwork on the part of some very busy people, so it may take some time to set up
[11:59] <mdz> lamontthanks
[11:59] <mdz> lamont is both here and away
[12:00] <lamont> mdz: yeah - that away guy is away from the house
[12:00] <Mez> mdz: It'll require some legwork yes, I'm thinking maybe an install/live cd when breezy is released (for hoary)
[12:00] <lamont> the order of existance is 'lamont__', lamont, lamont-away :0
[12:00] <lamont> :-)
[12:01] <\sh> lamont: it works great on ubuntu ;)
[12:02] <lamont> my roving selves all highlight on 'lamont' as well
[12:03] <lamont> of course, sometimes when my home-self is 'lamont-away', I'm really there... I should be more pedantic about my nic
[12:03] <lamont> k
[12:03] <pitti> night everybody
[12:03] <\sh> yes..for me as well...g'night :) 
[12:04] <shaya> mdz: pathc was just posted
[12:04] <shaya> they messed up on the d_unhashed logic