[12:06] <shaya> mdz: now just fix restricted-modules so my madwifi loads so I can test .12 :)
[12:13] <Amaranth> shaya: now just give me $5000 and I'll do it
[12:13] <shaya> :)
[12:14] <shaya> hey, I fixed a bug (or at least isolated) for mdz yesterday :)
[12:23] <Mez> elmo: pinh
[12:23] <Mez> ping *
[12:23] <majic> I have yet to actually make my first Ubuntu package. I'm still reading about it. But if you guys were to sum up the level of difficulty (in actually getting it right and stable) from 1 - 10 what would you say?
[12:24] <dholbach> majic: if you join #ubuntu-motu we can help to get you there
[12:24] <majic> I'm there =)
[12:24] <mdz> shaya: what's wrong with it?
[12:24] <mdz> shaya: it works here
[12:28] <mvo> mdz: any objections on a python-apt upload tomorrow? or just I time it with your apt upload?
[12:28] <mdz> mvo: no objections
[12:28] <mvo> thanks!
[12:29] <lifeless> is this worth a bug report... tpackage libfann1/libfann1-dev lacks Python bindings, even though upstream has such bindings.
[12:29] <lifeless> (in that there is no python2.4-fann or * package).
[12:29] <mdz> shaya: I don't see the patch in my mailbox or in the list archives yet; could you send a copy off-list?
[12:29] <mvo> lifeless: do you it? I sponsor it :)
[12:30] <mvo> lifeless: s/do you it/do you use it/
[12:30] <mdz> s/bug report/feature request/
[12:30] <Mez> mvo: have you been drinking ?
[12:30] <mvo> Mez: no, I'm just tired :/
[12:30] <lifeless> mvo - I don't, but one of the twisted guys is trying to use it from python, and noted the discrepancy :)
[12:30] <Mez> mvo: same thing really
[12:30] <mvo> Mez: heh :)
[12:31] <Mez> lamont: ping :
[12:32] <lifeless> mvo - so, what chance of the non-developer maintainer enabling those bindings ?
[12:32] <mvo> lifeless: yes, feel free to file a bug (either debian or ubuntu). it's been a while since I was working on/with it
[12:32] <lifeless> reportbug libfann1-dev :)
[12:33] <lifeless> bwahhahaha
[12:33] <lifeless> may I flood 10 lines ?
[12:34] <dholbach> 10 lines is nothing :)
[12:34] <lifeless> Bug report submitted to: "Ubuntu Bug Tracking System" <ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com>
[12:34] <lifeless> Copies sent to:
[12:34] <lifeless>   "Robert Collins" <robertc@squid-cache.org>
[12:34] <ogra> lol
[12:34] <lifeless> Traceback (most recent call last):
[12:34] <lifeless>   File "/usr/bin/reportbug", line 1656, in ?
[12:34] <lifeless>     main()
[12:34] <lifeless>   File "/usr/bin/reportbug", line 1647, in main
[12:34] <Mez> wait..
[12:34] <lifeless>     smtphost, options.smtpuser, options.smtppasswd, options.paranoid)
[12:34] <lifeless>   File "/usr/share/reportbug/reportbug_submit.py", line 415, in send_report
[12:34] <Mez> Bug tracing system
[12:34] <lifeless>     (sysinfo['email']  % 'n'), (sysinfo['email']  % '999999'))
[12:34] <Mez> ubuntu-users ?
[12:34] <lifeless> 'Lying'
[12:34] <lifeless> TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting
[12:35] <mvo> haha
[12:35] <Burgundavia> lifeless, that was 11 lines, sorry
[12:35] <lifeless> Burgundavia: awww
[12:35] <lifeless> ^U
[12:35] <lifeless> there you go, one less.
[12:35] <ogra> heh
[12:37] <mdz> lifeless: old bug in reportbug; I thought it was fixed
[12:37] <lifeless> mvo - so did that get through or not ? I'm not on u-u
[12:37] <lifeless> mdz - I';m on hoary, would that explain it ?
[12:37] <mvo> lifeless: I'm not on u-u as well ...
[12:37] <ogra> mdz, i was about to qoute your -devel post *g*
[12:37] <ogra> but you did the yourself *g*
[12:37] <mdz> lifeless: I thought it was fixed before hoary, but there has been another report of it on hoary recently...
[12:38] <ogra> that even
[12:39] <lifeless> mvo https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1674
[12:40] <lifeless> mdz want me to file a bug on reportbug ?
[12:40] <mvo> lifeless: I send a message to fann upstream and asked him how stable he considers the python bindings. I hope he answers soon
[12:41] <dholbach> i'm off to bed - sleep tight everybody
[12:41] <mvo> n8 dholbach 
[12:41] <ogra> bye dholbach 
[12:41] <lifeless> night
[12:42] <lifeless> mvo - thanks :).
[12:43] <HiddenWolf> x works?
[12:43] <HiddenWolf> omg
[12:44] <mvo> lifeless: nb :)
[12:49] <Kamion> mdz,mvo: I've tested progress-reporting patch-22, and have a completely working base-config with progress bar and passthrough questions with the aid of debconf 1.4.56
[12:49] <Kamion> (which I uploaded to Debian earlier this evening, and will merge to Ubuntu tomorrow)
[12:49] <mvo> Kamion: *rock*
[12:50] <mdz> Kamion: fantastic
[12:50] <mdz> I'll upload 0.6.40
[12:50] <lamont> mdz: hoary live/ppc cd.  machine has eth0 (5221) and eth1 (wireless) nic's.  casper complains in syslog that /sbin/ifup is missing, never brings up eth0....  eth1 can't find an AP (unsurprising, actually)... is this a known issue?
[12:51] <lamont> one you're up, you can tell network config to confgure eth0, and all is well.. but it's not automatic
[12:51] <shaya> ah
[12:51] <shaya> mdz: you need to be subscribed to the cvs list
[12:51] <shaya> it helps to see whats going on
[12:52] <shaya> mdz: http://www.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu/pipermail/unionfs-cvs/2005-August/000260.html
[12:52] <shaya> see the change to commonfops.c
[12:52] <Kamion> mdz: great, thanks
[12:52] <Kamion> I hope somebody will do the aptitude upload too
[12:52] <Kamion> then I'll depend on that version
[12:52] <Kamion> hm, actually I suppose I can just depend on new-enough apt and unversioned aptitude, that's logically sufficient
[12:53] <mvo> Kamion: I can do a (ubuntu) aptitude upload when we have the new apt. I'll send a patch to daniel too
[12:54] <Mez> lamont: reping
[12:54] <mdz> lamont: doesn't sound familiar
[12:54] <Kamion> btw, colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/base-config--pkgsel-progress--0
[12:54] <mdz> lamont: casper doesn't do anything interesting with the network; d-i handles it
[12:55] <Kamion> needs a few more things wrapping in progress bars and some tidy-ups, but the major work's done
[12:56] <lifeless> mdz - for your gratification... https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1677
[12:56] <lamont> mdz/kamion: I have logs from the machine, if they help at all... guess we should grab a recent colony and see how it does.
[12:56] <lamont> Kamion: btw, ia64 daily d-i builds disabled for the moment
[12:57] <HiddenWolf> Guys, for the record, why do I see a warning come scrolling past during hoary install that 'locate' needs a cronjob run by root during install, and that the user should do that manually?
[12:58] <Kamion> because the postinst prints that and nobody spotted it to disable it?
[12:59] <Kamion> hm, in fact findutils.postinst doesn't ...
[01:00] <HiddenWolf> I only saw it now because I'm refurbishing an ancient laptop. Thought I'd ask.
[01:00] <Kamion> which package?
[01:00] <Kamion> ah, looks like slocate.postinst
[01:00] <Kamion> WARNING: You should run '$SLOCATE_UPDATEDB' as root. locate will not work
[01:00] <Kamion> properly until you do or until it is run by cron (it is daily).
[01:00] <HiddenWolf> bingo
[01:01] <Kamion> I think you misparaphrased the warning a bit
[01:01] <HiddenWolf> Yeah, i noticed
[01:01] <Kamion> looks pretty harmless
[01:01] <HiddenWolf> Noticed that too. :(
[01:01] <Kamion> slocate's theoretically nice but at least historically has been slightly oddly packaged
[01:02] <Kamion> I recall having filed some "is broken" bugs against it
[01:02] <HiddenWolf> eh, if it's not up to par, why is it in seed?
[01:03] <Kamion> it's a lot better now than it was; the postinst message is just a vestige of the previously odd packaging I believe
[01:03] <Kamion> and it's a good idea - means you can't discover filenames using locate that you wouldn't have been able to see otherwise
[01:04] <HiddenWolf> Ah, looks nifty
[01:04] <HiddenWolf> Learned another command line trick today. ;)
[01:05] <Kamion> actually I reversed that slightly, see Debian #171811 for a better explanation of why it's a good idea
[01:06] <HiddenWolf> Ugh, I keep wanting to press #<number> things in xchat and expecting to end up on bugzilla. :P
[01:06] <martinhj> sometimes my USB ports doesn't work.. I need to reboot to get them working again..
[01:06] <martinhj> in kern.log I get: Cannot enable port 1.  Maybe the USB cable is bad?
[01:07] <martinhj> but it's nothing to do with the cable, have tested with different devices
[01:07] <HiddenWolf> Kamion: is there anyone I could ask about what is going to happen with ubuntu and ubuntu lite? 
[01:07] <martinhj> I got two different USB ports, happens on both
[01:08] <martinhj> in interrupts I can see that the USB hubs shares interupts with other devices..
[01:08] <martinhj> what can this be?
[01:08] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: not something I know about, I'm afraid
[01:08] <martinhj> it happens maybe 1 out of 10 time
[01:08] <martinhj> times
[01:08] <martinhj> or maybe less
[01:09] <Kamion> and I'm three beers and half a cacao/cherry cocktail the worse for wear, so I'm not the best person to ask right now ;)
[01:09] <sabdfl> jdub: what's the vibe at OSCON like?
[01:10] <HiddenWolf> Kamion: anyone who does? The idea is good, but it looks like an half-assed rushjob to me. an offline website, and a google group for discussion about it. 
[01:10] <HiddenWolf> no offense.
[01:11] <sabdfl> HiddenWolf: patches welcome
[01:11] <HiddenWolf> sabdfl: I'd love to. I can do hello world in three languages. :)
[01:12] <HiddenWolf> I'll happily test it on a half-dozen old pc's if it'd look somewhat trustworthy.
[01:12] <ogra> night mvo 
[01:12] <Burgundavia> HiddenWolf, part of what they are doing is a google soc project
[01:13] <HiddenWolf> I'm gathering it's not official but will be?
[01:13] <ogra> HiddenWolf, vedran is the bountier
[01:14] <ogra> he's around during sane european times
[01:15] <HiddenWolf> Hm, right.
[01:15] <Kamion> Mez: you really don't need to say "changed distribution to breezy" in changelogs BTW - it's implicit in the changelog header
[01:16] <Kamion> unless there were actual changes for that outside the changelog
[01:16] <HiddenWolf> Attribute my bluntness to the hour, i'll be talking to vedran in the morning. :)
[01:16] <squinn> question
[01:16] <squinn> as i think #devel will know it better than straight #ubuntu
[01:16] <Mez> Kamion, yeah i know... :D lol... I was just being over-zealous
[01:16] <Mez> lol
[01:16] <squinn> what files are created when a pgp key is created?
[01:17] <Mez> squinn: it goes onto your keyrung
[01:18] <Mez> in ~/.gnupg
[01:18] <squinn> thanks Mez 
[01:21] <mdz> Kamion,mvo: uploaded
[01:35] <mdz> shaya: that patch is HTML-mangled; what is the URL for the CVS repository?
[01:41] <mdz> shaya: never mind, did it by hand
[01:42] <hmrocha> hi
[01:42] <hmrocha> do you have any idea on when will colony 3 be released?
[01:48] <hmrocha> openoffice 1.1.4 is fucked up
[01:48] <hmrocha> (i'm using breezy)
[01:48] <hmrocha> i have deleted .sversionrc and .openoffice but it still doesn't work
[01:56] <shaya> mdz: you just needed the !d_unhashed->d_unhashed
[01:56] <shaya> fixed your problem?
[01:57] <mdz> don't know yet, doing a full kernel build
[01:58] <shaya> mdz: what's the reasoning for this tempfs based .ko storage area for restricted modules?
[01:58] <shaya> what was wrong w/ the old way?
[01:58] <elmo> mdz: is "unable to build ppc64 kernels" a RC bug for kernel-package or just noromal?
[01:59] <shaya> any chance they'll work on IBM's JS20 blades?
[02:00] <mdz> elmo: depends on whether we get around to building ppc64 kernels for breezy
[02:01] <mdz> oh, we do
[02:01] <mdz> so they're failing?
[02:02] <mdz> dpkg-deb: building package `linux-image-2.6.12-6-powerpc64-smp' in `../linux-image-2.6.12-6-powerpc64-smp_2.6.12-6.7_powerpc.deb'.
[02:02] <mdz> looks ok
[02:02] <elmo> kernel-package
[02:02] <elmo> not dpkg-buildpackage
[02:02] <elmo> i.e. for users
[02:03] <elmo> you know, the ones who compile their own kernels - I know how much you love them
[02:04] <sabdfl> night all
[02:04] <Lathiat> night sabdfl 
[02:07] <mdz> elmo: dude, linux-source uses make-kpkg to do the builds
[02:07] <mdz> so clearly it can build ppc64 kernels
[02:07] <elmo> hum
[02:09] <elmo> hmm, it's doing some hideous KPKG_ARCH overriding
[02:09] <elmo> meh
[02:09] <elmo> doesn't really count, but ok
[02:10] <elmo> it's possible, just broken by default
[02:11] <mdz> sounds like a normal bug then
[02:11] <elmo> yeah
[03:29] <sebest_> hello, i noticed during my last apt-get upgrade that glitz was installed, is there something using it?
[03:31] <Lathiat> sebest_: cairo i think
[03:31] <Lathiat> dont quote me on that
[03:31] <sebest_> lol
[03:31] <sebest_> i was wondering something, how can i choose the backend when using cairo?
[03:32] <sebest_> for example how can i switch from the software to the glitz backend
[03:54] <Lathiat> hrm to instal gnome-devel I had to first install libgnome-menu-dev manually because it wouldnt install for some reason with gnome-devel
[04:53] <yossnet81> hey, my xorg on breezy is still broken. GDM comes up, looks all weird, then I get a message saying "the greeter program appears to be crashing attempting to use a different one". in addition, weird colors are coming up on my VT's in random places
[04:53] <yossnet81> it was working fine before X broke
[04:56] <yossnet81> anyone?
[04:57] <bob2> that sounds more like a #ubuntu/ubuntu-users question
[04:57] <yossnet81> bob2: alright
[05:05] <whiprush> "Bob2, the hammer of the channel."
[05:09] <dilinger> "hammer", that's quite a nice euphemism :)
[05:10] <Clint> for "ham"?
[05:10] <ajmitch> bob2: don't ignore your fanclub
[05:10] <dilinger> bob2: i was just gonna say... i didn't realize Clint was in this channel, too.  i'll have to remember to not say mean things about him.  well, not real mean, anyways
[05:11] <Clint> i'm not here
[05:13] <whiprush> ajmitch: whoa, hey now, I don't fanboi bob2.
[05:13] <whiprush> I merely fear him.
[05:14] <ajmitch> sure, whiprush.
[05:14] <bddebian> heh
[05:15] <bddebian> Oh man, don't tell me they are all coming over here or I am gonna end up in #gentoo-devel or some shit.. ;-P
[05:15] <ajmitch> don't worry, the hurd channels are still empty enough
[05:16] <bddebian> Oohh, ouch...
[05:16] <whiprush> http://www.flickr.com/photos/whiprush/13478163/
[05:18] <Burgundavia> bob2, don't you also babysit launch import scripts?
[05:25] <dilinger> heh
[05:25] <dilinger> http://www.flickr.com/photos/whiprush/13477939/
[05:25] <dilinger> whiprush: i think that's Dafydd Harries, making a rather odd face
[05:27] <whiprush> the one next to janew?
[05:27] <dilinger> yea
[05:29] <whiprush> k
[07:25] <Mithrandir> mako: Simira wonders if you've sent her any cds lately.
[07:59] <bob2> Burgundavia: not anymore
[07:59] <bob2> whiprush: the "someone" in the link dilinger posted is Daf
[07:59] <ajmitch> bob2: they let you off?
[07:59] <bob2> who appears to be entering S3
[08:03] <Burgundavia> what do you do now?
[08:03] <pitti> Good morning
[08:03] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[08:03] <ajmitch> how are you?
[08:04] <pitti> ajmitch: fine, up to my aching hand
[08:04] <ajmitch> ouch
[08:05] <ajmitch> what did you do to it?
[08:05] <pitti> ajmitch: inflammation, too much typing
[08:07] <ajmitch> btw still working on the phpgw security fix - debdiff is ~1MB between the hoary & breezy versions :)
[08:07] <ajmitch> so I'm icking out what is relevant
[08:08] <ajmitch> s/icking/picking/
[08:08] <pitti> mdz: still here?
[08:08] <bob2> ajmitch: not at canonical anymore
[08:08] <ajmitch> ah
[08:09] <ajmitch> on the streets then? 
[08:09] <bob2> poppin' caps in ganstas.
[08:10] <Burgundavia> bob2, where do you work now?
[08:14] <Lathiat> elmo: ping
[08:15] <bob2> Burgundavia: nowhere, atm
[08:15] <Burgundavia> ah
[08:23] <mdz> pitti: yes
[08:24] <pitti> mdz: I just tested Debian's at version, works fine (including the "at -c" bug I fixed i the breezy version yesterday)
[08:24] <pitti> mdz: so the only change that's left is now LSB init script
[08:25] <pitti> mdz: so we might consider merging to get the other bug fixes
[08:25] <mdz> pitti: what other bug fixes?
[08:26] <pitti> mdz: http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/at/news/1.html
[08:27] <mdz> pitti: the current at seems to work quite well
[08:27] <mdz> I'm not sure that a large batch of changes is the best thing for it right now
[08:30] <pitti> mdz: ok
[08:55] <mdz> good night, see you at the meeting tomorrow
[09:11] <tepsipakki> how strictly is Ubuntu going to implement LSB3.0?
[09:12] <tepsipakki> I was thinking of the runlevels...
[09:57] <hunger> How do I use the new linux-restricted-modules? modprobe claims to load those modules, but the HW won't work and lsmod will not list the modules at all.
[09:57] <bob2> #ubuntu
[10:08] <pitti> Moin seb128 
[10:09] <seb128> hey pitti
[10:09] <seb128> pitti: have you fixed the libnotify hang?
[10:10] <pitti> seb128: not yet, I fixed the int overflow and debugged a bit, but it's a bit tricky
[10:10] <seb128> k, I've read your mail, that's why I ask
[10:10] <pitti> seb128: also, on ppc the notifications don't disapear automatically
[10:11] <pitti> seb128: I was just too tired yesterday night, sorry
[10:11] <seb128> pitti: upstream is Chipx86 on #gnome-hackers if you want to speak with him
[10:11] <pitti> seb128: now I'm bringing langpacks up to shape, then I can continue this
[10:11] <pitti> oh, thanks
[10:11] <seb128> pitti: oh, no problem at all, don't worry. There is no hurry, I'm just curious ... :)
[10:12] <pitti> seb128: I installed 400 MB of upgraded debs yesterday, just to be sure that it isn't an old dbus or whatever
[10:12] <pitti> but it didn't help
[10:12] <pitti> so it's a genuine bug
[10:12] <seb128> :(
[10:33] <dholbach> hellas
[10:34] <pitti> Moin Daniel
[10:34] <dholbach> hey martin :)
[10:35] <seb128> hey dholbach
[10:36] <dholbach> hey sb :)
[10:36] <janimo> hey daniel
[10:37] <dholbach> janimo: hey jani... you're changing nicks quite often :)
[10:43] <jsgotangco> dholbach!
[10:43] <dholbach> morning jerome! hey jane
[10:46] <pitti> Riddell: ~/ubuntu/langpack-o-matic$ baz commit -s 'infrastructure for shipping additional files'
[10:46] <pitti> Riddell: :-)
[10:50] <janimo> dholbach, I'm in a perpetual searh of identity
[10:53] <seb128> lamont-away, infinity: where is 2.2.8-2ubuntu3? I've uploaded it yesterday but there is no buildlog, I guess that the buildds are waiting for something?
[10:54] <Amaranth> ook, i broke my system menu
[10:55] <dholbach> janimo: i do understand that :)
[10:56] <seb128> Amaranth: hey ... do you have some time to fill a wiki package for smeg to main?
[10:56] <Amaranth> ok... not sure what to put on it though
[11:04] <jdub> yo seb128 
[11:04] <dholbach> hey jdub 
[11:04] <seb128> hey jdub
[11:04] <Amaranth> seb128: what should i put in for rationale other than 'is very popular'?
[11:04] <seb128> jdub: what's up? :)
[11:04] <jdub> yo dholbach 
[11:04] <jdub> i am
[11:05] <jdub> at 2am it seems ;)
[11:05] <jdub> crazy timezone mess
[11:05] <seb128> Amaranth: probable default menu editor for 5.10
[11:05] <seb128> Amaranth: I've patched gnome-panel yesterday, it uses it before gmenu-simple-editor if it's installed
[11:06] <Amaranth> ?
[11:06] <Amaranth> didn't it use it already?
[11:07] <seb128> no
[11:07] <seb128> right click on the menu
[11:07] <seb128> "Edit Menus"
[11:07] <seb128> it was opening gmenu-simple-editor
[11:08] <Amaranth> oh, it uses smeg now?
 Amaranth: I've patched gnome-panel yesterday, it uses it before gmenu-simple-editor if it's installed
[11:09] <Amaranth> ok, now i understand what that means
[11:09] <Amaranth> i hate english and it's my native language :P
[11:10] <Amaranth> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportSmeg
[11:10] <Amaranth> does that look good?
[11:10] <ogra> Amaranth, learn french then ;)
[11:11] <seb128> Amaranth: yeah, seems to be ok
[11:11] <seb128> Amaranth: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLibnotify
[11:12] <seb128> Amaranth: maybe you can fix it to fit this one (ie: the Requirements title, the URL to the packages and the space between points)? These are just cosmetic details but it's nicer :)
[11:12] <seb128> Amaranth: thanks
[11:12] <sivang> Amaranth: smeg is in main now ? :)
[11:14] <ogra> sivang, read above
[11:18] <Amaranth> seb128: done
[11:18] <seb128> Amaranth: thanks
[11:18] <seb128> Amaranth: please ping me when you guys roll a new pyxdg too
[11:18] <Amaranth> will do
[11:19] <seb128> thank you
[11:19] <seb128> jdub: around? I hate gtk engines stuff and I know you like that ... :)
[11:19] <seb128> jdub: what are we supposed to do with clearlook now that gtk2-engines ship it too?
[11:21] <Amaranth> change the standalone package to a transition package and build the one in gtk2-engines?
[11:22] <seb128> why a transitionnal package to do this?
[11:22] <seb128> it would have the same name
[11:22] <Amaranth> oh
[11:22] <jdub> seb128: uuuggghhh
[11:22] <seb128> the issue is than the Debian guys prefer to keep maintaining that stuff out of gtk2-engines
[11:22] <Amaranth> seb128: what version of gnome-panel was that?
[11:23] <seb128> because they say than the real work is done on sf.net by example
[11:23] <seb128> so it's better to ship this version than the gtk2-engines one
[11:23] <Amaranth> err, the work has moved to gnome cvs, hasn't it?
[11:23] <seb128> Amaranth: no sure that's why I ask jdub
[11:23] <seb128> gnome-panel (2.11.90-0ubuntu4) breezy; urgency=low
[11:23] <seb128>   * debian/patches/10_defaulteditor.patch:
[11:23] <seb128>     - change the default menu editor, use smeg before gmenu-simple-editor.
[11:23] <seb128> for panel
[11:23] <seb128> but it probably needs a kick to retry, there was a gnome-menus bug
[11:24] <Amaranth> remenic made it sound like he was going to work in the gtk2-engines module from now on
[11:24] <seb128> Amaranth: k, still I would like to get jdub's opinion on that :)
[11:24] <seb128> we already screwed industrial this way
[11:24] <Amaranth> hehe
[11:25] <seb128> Debian ships it from its packaging which has the gtk-engines and the icons
[11:25] <seb128> we have built it once from gtk2-engines
[11:25] <seb128> which doesn't ship the icon
[11:25] <Amaranth> oh yeah my panel started crashing again so it's a good thing you filed the bug report after all :)
[11:25] <seb128> and since gtk2-engines is 2.6
[11:25] <seb128> and the other package 0.something
[11:25] <seb128> either we put an epoch on industrial to reship the separate package which is ugly
[11:25] <seb128> or we have to make an icon package
[11:26] <jdub> seb128: so unfortunately, industrial seems to have finally moved into gtk-engines
[11:26] <seb128> Amaranth: it should be fixed this crash, I've patched the panel for it
[11:26] <jdub> seb128: and clearlooks is in it, but still declared to be maintained outside
[11:26] <seb128> jdub: that's good, we ship the gtk-engines version ... but we don't have any icon theme due to that
[11:27] <seb128> industrial icon theme
[11:27] <jdub> they *still* haven't fixed that?
[11:28] <seb128> who is supposed to do what?
[11:28] <jdub> brb, going to shop
[11:28] <seb128> k
[11:28] <seb128> later
[11:28] <seb128> ping me when you are back and want to speak about industrial and clearlooks :)
[11:29] <Amaranth> seb128: yeah, you fixed it in ubuntu3 which isn't in the archives yet :/
[11:29] <seb128> Amaranth: <seb128> but it probably needs a kick to retry, there was a gnome-menus bug
[11:29] <Amaranth> oh, i thought that was just for 4
[11:30] <seb128> nop, for both
[11:30] <Lathiat> seb128: noticed how if you try install gnome-devel, it wont due to libgnome-menu-dev not wanting to install, but if you install libgnome-menu-dev manually then its all good?
[11:30] <seb128> no
[11:31] <seb128> but gnome-<something> are not supposed to work
[11:31] <Lathiat> any idea what causes that?
[11:31] <Lathiat> seb128: why not?
[11:31] <seb128> because nobody cared to work on "gnome" package
[11:31] <seb128> we use ubuntu-desktop
[11:31] <Lathiat> ah, hrm
[11:31] <Lathiat> well, it does work
[11:31] <Lathiat> apart from that
[11:31] <Amaranth> Lathiat: are you on hoary?
[11:31] <Lathiat> its just gnome-devel i care about
[11:31] <Lathiat> Amaranth: breezy
[11:31] <Amaranth> nevermind then
[11:31] <seb128> your issue is probably it depends on libfam-dev
[11:32] <pitti> Riddell: now I have the KDE flags, desktop files, etc. in the KDE langpacks, so you can remove them from kde-i18n-foo if you want
[11:32] <seb128> I've changing that to libgamin-dev
[11:32] <Lathiat> seb128: what does, libgnome-menu-dev?
[11:32] <seb128> s/I've/I'm/
[11:32] <seb128> yep
[11:32] <seb128> libgamin-dev provides libfam-dev
[11:32] <Lathiat> oh you mean
[11:32] <Lathiat> gnome-devel deps libfam-dev
[11:32] <Lathiat> libgnome-menu-dev deps libgamin-dev
[11:32] <seb128> but the packaging tools seems to no be happy with that
[11:32] <Lathiat> so until you install libgnome-menu-dev to install libgamin-dev which then provides libfam-dev
[11:32] <Lathiat> it thinks it conflicts
[11:33] <seb128> ??
 gnome-devel deps libfam-dev ?
[11:33] <seb128> not here
[11:33] <Lathiat> no i cant see that either
[11:33] <Lathiat> so wheres the problem?
 seb128: FYI, yesterday you made libgnome-menu-dev depend on libfam-dev; this made aptitude want to remove the entire of gnome (as it decided it would be best to install libfam-dev rather than libgamin-dev, causing fam / gamin conflicts
[11:34] <seb128> I think that's the same issue
[11:34] <seb128> the packaging tools seems to prefer to remove gnome rather than installing libgamin-dev
[11:34] <seb128> which provides libfam-dev
[11:34] <Lathiat> or not to install it
[11:34] <Lathiat> right
[11:34] <seb128> right
[11:35] <seb128> exactly
[11:35] <seb128> so I'll specify gamin
[11:35] <Lathiat> libfam-dev | libgamin-dev might fix it
[11:35] <Lathiat> or the other way around
[11:35] <seb128> yep
[11:35] <Lathiat> i guess its hard for apt to figure that kinda thing out
 perhaps it would be better to make the depend "libgamin-dev | libfam-dev" ?
 yeah, I'll do that for next upload
[11:35] <Lathiat> seb128: ah, ok
[11:35] <Amaranth> someone actually uses fam instead of gamin?
[11:36] <seb128> nop
[11:36] <Amaranth> I wish hoary had gnome-menus 2.10.2 *sigh*
[11:37] <Amaranth> so many people email me saying they have problems, i say upgrade to 2.10.2, they say problems solved
[11:37] <mvo> elmo: are you around?
[11:37] <mbreit> hi! i have a question: Riddel did a sponsored upload for me yesterday, and the build logs now say: universe/sound/noteedit_2.7.1-2ubuntu1: Not-For-Us [optional:out-of-date] . what does that mean?
[11:39] <janimo> mbreit, could be because previous version is 2build1 ?
[11:39] <mbreit> yes
[11:40] <janimo> I don't where how build1 is in the version succession
[11:40] <janimo> s/how//
[11:40] <janimo> maybe it should have been build1ubuntu1
[11:40] <janimo> dunno
[11:41] <\sh> no
[11:41] <\sh> build1 never reached the archives
[11:41] <mbreit> janimo: the same changelog entry was for -2build1 before...
[11:42] <\sh> mbreit: -2build1 never reached the archvies
[11:42] <pitti> mbreit, janimo: 2build1 means that version 2 was just reuploaded to be built again, but without actual source changes
[11:42] <janimo> what is the policy regarding buildX version?
[11:42] <\sh> mbreit: check http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/n/noteedit/
[11:42] <mbreit> \sh: i know ;)
[11:43] <pitti> janimo: if we would call it 2ubuntu1, then it would look as if we would have actually changed something, and the package won't be auto-synced from Debian
[11:43] <janimo> pitti, isn't that the same as lamont 'giving it back' ?
[11:43] <bob2> not-for-us means the buildd is configured not to build it
[11:43] <pitti> janimo: no, g-b only works if a package FTBFS previously
[11:43] <pitti> janimo: if version 2 did build, then it needs a higher version so that the package is actually upgraded on user's machines
[11:43] <janimo> pitti, I know about 2ubuntu1 , I was wondering if build1ubuntu1 would be a logical next version :)
[11:44] <pitti> janimo: no, if you change sth, then 2ubuntu1 is the next one
[11:44] <mbreit> bob2: but why should they be configured not to build noteedit?
[11:45] <janimo> pitti, does this mean after a rebuild with buildX you can no longer make ubuntuX changes since it would conflict with future debian versions?
[11:45] <janimo> or is build1 not taken into account in version comparisons?
[11:46] <pitti> janimo: no, you should treat NbuildK like version N
[11:46] <janimo> pitti ok, thanks
[11:46] <pitti> the buildK is just a crude hack
[11:46] <bob2> the buildd admin configured it like that
[11:46] <pitti> janimo: buildK is of course taken into account when comparing versions
[11:46] <bob2> perhaps it was a mistake, or they were waiting for a build-dep to be fixed
[11:46] <pitti> janimo: it is mostly used when building the same package against a newer library that is in the archive
[11:46] <bob2> ah, depends on qt
[11:47] <janimo> almost unrelated: any reason an ubuntu1 package does not show up in lamont buildLogs after 3 hours of it on breezy-changes?
[11:47] <janimo> I uploaded an xfce4-terminal change 3 hours ago
[11:48] <mbreit> janimo: universe/x11/xfce4-terminal_0.2.4-3ubuntu1: Dep-Wait by buildd+terranova [-:uncompiled] 
[11:48] <mbreit>   Dependencies: dbus-glib-1-dev
[11:48] <_koke> for kubuntu devs, I've just packaged taglib 1.4, for the new upcoming amarok :)
[11:49] <janimo> mbreit, where is that info?(url)
[11:49] <mbreit> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/breezy.all.i386
[11:49] <janimo> mbreit, thanks :)
[11:49] <mbreit> bob2: do you mean that every qt-based programs do not build atm?
[11:49] <bob2> no
[11:50] <mbreit> bob2: what should i do then?
[11:50] <Riddell> pitti: great :)
[11:50] <bob2> mbreit: talk to lamont or infinity
[11:51] <bob2> it's well outside infinity work hours tho, so go get smashed and bug him on monday ;p
[11:51] <mbreit> bob2: okay, thanks..
[11:52] <Riddell> koke: where can I find that?
[11:52] <koke> http://www.amedias.org/~koke/debian/breezy/
[11:57] <janimo> If a package gets renamed both Replaces: and Conflicts: are needed right?
[11:57] <bob2> Replaces says "I have files from $this package, and that's ok".  Conflicts says "if you install me, uninstall $that".
[11:58] <janimo> bob2, we have the same sw synced from os-works for hoary and now from sid packaged under different names
[11:58] <janimo> sid users are not affected since they did not have the other upstream
[11:59] <Treenaks> there used to be a bug in dpkg which required you to use both. but that has been fixed (if I understood keybuk's debconf talk correctly)
[11:59] <janimo> so I need to add Conflict then I guess
[11:59] <janimo> Treenaks, which is the one that's enough then?
[12:00] <Treenaks> janimo: depends.. what do you want to do
[12:00] <janimo> what currently is xterminal is superseded by xfce4-terminal from sid
[12:00] <Treenaks> replaces
[12:00] <Treenaks> I think
[12:00] <janimo> Treenaks, same terminal app packaged under a different name in sid, and we want to replace our existing package with that
[12:03] <pitti> janimo: you need an empty dummy package xterminal which depends on xfce4-terminal
[12:04] <janimo> pitti, so a new greater version of xterminal which is empty?
[12:04] <pitti> janimo: and xfce4-terminal Replaces: and Conflicts: xterminal << (yourdummypackageversion)
[12:04] <pitti> janimo: yew
[12:04] <pitti> yes, even
[12:04] <janimo> pitti, cool thanks :)
[12:04] <Treenaks> empty except for changelog, README etc.
[12:04] <bob2> isn't Conflicting enough to make apt remove it?
[12:05] <Treenaks> bob2: it is now, yes.. but how will apt know that it needs to install the new package?
[12:05] <pitti> bob2: no, then it will be held back, I think
[12:05] <bob2> Treenaks: dist-upgrade will try to get a newer version of xfce4-terminal and say "oh, wow, we have to remove xterminal to get that"
[12:06] <pitti> bob2: there is no older version of xfce4-terminal, right?
[12:06] <janimo> pitti, no there isn't
[12:06] <bob2> oh, ok
[12:06] <bob2> I mixinterpretd, sorry
[12:06] <Treenaks> bob2: it's a package rename afaics
[12:06] <bob2> clearly coffee time
[12:06] <janimo> IIRC when I said install firefox it just removed mozilla-firefox, isn't this the same scenario?
[12:07] <Treenaks> janimo: no, it should install xfce4-terminal automatically if you have xterminal installed right?
[12:07] <Treenaks> janimo: instead of the old xterminal
[12:07] <janimo> Treenaks, well on dist-upgrade yes
[12:12] <janimo> pitti, you're (one of) thefirefox packager(s)?
[12:14] <janimo> I am wondering on the possibility and the benefits of making a firefox package which does not depend on gnome libs
[12:24] <pitti> janimo: I still refuse to be called firefox maintainer :-)
[12:28] <jdub> pitti: you touched it last!
[12:28] <pitti> jdub: no, seb128 did :-)
[12:29] <seb128> DOH
[12:29] <seb128> but dholbach wants it
[12:29] <jdub> ha ha
[12:29] <seb128> be nice with him
[12:29] <dholbach> seb128: we talked about this like 135176367 times already, i said  * N O ! *
[12:30] <pitti> seb128: would firefox be in universe, and I was asked to review it for main inclusion, it would just be rejected rigorously :-)
[12:30] <seb128> dholbach: nobody asked you if you want it, we just offer it to you :)
[12:30] <Lathiat> anyone know the name of the tool that monitors what something does when you run it and creates a debian package out of it
[12:30] <dholbach> pitti: good thinking
[12:30] <dholbach> seb128: offering is something where you can say "no", right? :)
[12:30] <pitti> Lathiat: auto-apt?
[12:30] <seb128> dholbach: no, that's not polite
[12:31] <dholbach> you're all so mean
[12:31] <dholbach> what did i do to you?
[12:31] <seb128> come on, it's funny
[12:31] <seb128> users will love you
[12:31] <pitti> packaging is so great and clean...
[12:31] <pitti> it only needs 20 minutes to build...
[12:31] <Lathiat> pitti: nah, like running an installer
[12:31] <Lathiat> and have it automatically just shove the files into a debian package
[12:31] <dholbach> ok, i sold drugs, paid no taxes, stole lollipops from children - but how does that affect you?
[12:31] <mbreit> Lathiat: do you mean checkinstall?
[12:32] <seb128> mvo:
[12:32] <seb128>   File "/usr/bin/apt-listchanges", line 30, in ?
[12:35] <seb128>     import apt_pkg
[12:35] <seb128> ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/apt_pkg.so: undefined symbol: _ZN1 7pkgPackageManager9DoInstallEv
[12:35] <seb128> mvo: is that due to new apt?
[12:35] <mvo> seb128: yes, I'm working on it. the new apt has ... issues
[12:35] <seb128> k, thanks
[12:35] <ogra> hmm, no xorg for mad64 :(
[12:35] <ogra> amd64 indeed
[12:35] <dholbach> mad64 is good ahahahaha
[12:35] <seb128> FTBFS?
[12:35] <ogra> yup
[12:35] <seb128> cool
[12:35] <ogra> daniels made a typo or something
[12:35] <seb128> so daniels has to do a -45 and can fix Xnest
[12:35] <ogra> debian/rules:106: debian/scripts/vars.amd64: No such file or directory
[12:36] <seb128> lamont-away, infinity: can you retry gthumb gimp gnome-panel builds?
[12:36] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: could you please help me with testing the latest langpacks? Riddel, especially for the additional KDE files?
[12:36] <seb128> pitti: sure
[12:36] <seb128> pitti: what have I to do?
[12:37] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: please purge all language-pack* stuff and reinstall the latest breezy version (20050609)
[12:37] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: then grab the debs from http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/
[12:37] <pitti> you should get a french update notification
[12:38] <pitti> Riddell: and the flags, desktop files, etc. should work now
[12:40] <pitti> Moin Keybuk 
[12:40] <pitti> Hi Mez 
[12:41] <Mez> morning
[12:41] <Lathiat> Amaranth: are you still seeing gnome-panel crashes on applications updates?
[12:41] <Lathiat> you said it stopped, but im still seeing it
[12:41] <Amaranth> i'm seeing it on removal
[12:41] <Amaranth> menu removal, specifically
[12:42] <Lathiat> well, im seeing it on when vmware adds its icon/desktop entry
[12:42] <Lathiat> and yes, i did see that too
[12:42] <Lathiat> i get it every time i install a package basically
[12:42] <Lathiat> do i need to break the debugger out
[12:42] <Lathiat> or is it known?
[12:43] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: oh wait
[12:43] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: before upgrading to the new debs, please rm /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/language-pack*
[12:43] <pitti> seb128, Riddell: otherwise you won't see the notification
[12:44] <seb128> notification works
[12:44] <seb128> and I've get the french msg :)
[12:44] <pitti> yay
[12:44] <janimo> what so nasty about firefox, the upstream source or the debian packaging of it?
[12:44] <pitti> both
[12:44] <janimo> is the same source used for mozilla and thunderbird too?
[12:44] <Riddell> KDE est francais
[12:45] <Riddell> pitti: I don't get a notification however
[12:45] <janimo> source package I mean 
[12:45] <dholbach> janimo: it's a 40mb tarball - most people don't know that :)
[12:45] <pitti> janimo: no, the moz and tbird packages are *much* nicer
[12:45] <seb128> janimo: all the changes to the diff.gz
[12:45] <janimo> dholbach, I know I built nvu from it :)
[12:45] <Riddell> >ls /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/
[12:45] <Riddell> notification-2.6.12-3-386
[12:45] <pitti> Riddell: did you remove the old notification first? YOu already got it the last time you tested, right?
[12:45] <Riddell> pitti: I've reinstalled since then
[12:45] <pitti> Riddell: uh, and you really upgraded from 20050609?
[12:46] <Riddell> reinstalled the operating system
[12:46] <pitti> Riddell: so did you install the langpacks from scratch, or upgraded l-p-fr from 20050609?
[12:46] <janimo> is it something inherent to ff or just nobody had time to make a nice package of it?
[12:46] <Riddell> pitti: installed from scratch
[12:46] <pitti> janimo: well, if we made the packaging sane, then we had a huge delta to Debian
[12:46] <janimo> why is the diff so big?
[12:46] <jdub> mjg59: should i really expect to be able to get to a text console (i810)?
[12:46] <pitti> Riddell: ah, then that's what it should be like
[12:47] <janimo> and debian doesn't want it sane? :)
[12:47] <Riddell> formidable :)
[12:47] <pitti> janimo: if we separated out the inline patches to debian/patches, then you have the changes twice in the delta
[12:47] <seb128> pitti: everything works fine here
[12:47] <Riddell> pitti: how is it decided what does in base and what goes in the other one?
[12:47] <pitti> Riddell: sudo apt-get install language-pack-fr-base=20050609 language-pack-fr=20050609
[12:47] <janimo> those patches cannot go upsream? (I guess I'll have to look if I want more details)
[12:48] <pitti> Riddell: and then dpkg -i the new version -> that should trigger the notification
[12:48] <seb128> jdub: you didn't ping me back about gtk2-engines, does that mean you don't want to speak about that and I've to start it myself ? :)
[12:48] <pitti> Riddell: currently a heuristics that decides if the package is KDEish, GNOMEish, or neither/both
[12:48] <jdub> seb128: oh, sorry
[12:48] <jdub> seb128: i think we'd be better off using clearlooks upstream if daniel and richard keep maintaining it separately
[12:48] <seb128> np :)
[12:49] <seb128> k
[12:49] <Amaranth> Lathiat: known and fixed
[12:49] <seb128> but did GNOME guys made some changes to the gtkrc by example?
[12:49] <Riddell> pitti: I mean between language-pack-kde-fr and language-pack-kde-fr-base
[12:49] <jdub> seb128: i think that'll go in the clearlooks theme by default
[12:49] <seb128> I'm fine with that
[12:49] <seb128> k
[12:49] <pitti> Riddell: ah, right now everything is in -base
[12:49] <jdub> it's just a slight colour change
[12:49] <pitti> Riddell: the update packages will be populated after the breezy release
[12:49] <Riddell> pitti: right
[12:50] <pitti> Riddell: so that they only contain the actual updates and are small
[12:50] <pitti> Riddell, seb128: so we are fine with the packs, and theoretically I could throw them at the public?
[12:51] <pitti> I'm sick of delaying it further
[12:51] <pitti> and I lost hope that I will get a genuine Rosetta tarball soon
[12:51] <Riddell> pitti: for the KDE ones you might want to add to the description that installing kde-i18n-xx is needed for full translations
[12:52] <pitti> Riddell: I think language-selector should take care of that
[12:52] <pitti> mvo: apropos, do you see any problems with the langpack split wrt language selector?
[12:53] <seb128> pitti: yep
[12:54] <Lathiat> Amaranth: ok, cool
[12:54] <Riddell> pitti: well it already suggests language-support-kde-fr
[12:54] <mvo> pitti: I'm a bit busy right now, can we talk about it later?
[12:54] <pitti> Riddell: ouch, it does?
[12:55] <pitti> mvo: sure
[12:55] <Amaranth> Lathiat: new gnome-panel also opens smeg instead of gmenu-simple-editor :)
[12:55] <pitti> mvo: I just mean in general
[12:55] <pitti> Riddell: that package will not exist
[12:55] <pitti> Riddell: well spotted, I fix that
[12:56] <Riddell> :)
[12:56] <Riddell> I now have /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/language-pack-es_20050701
[12:56] <pitti> Riddell: we don't want to split the support packages, too, otherwise elmo's heart attack will be even worse
[12:56] <Riddell> shouldn't that be -fr ?
[12:56] <pitti> hm, yes...
[12:57] <mvo> pitti: probably not 
[01:01] <Lathiat> Amaranth: ubuntu patch?
[01:01] <pitti> Riddell: yes, l-p-es was a copy&paste bug...
[01:01] <Amaranth> Lathiat: yeah
[01:01] <Amaranth> hey, that reminds me
[01:01] <Lathiat> Amaranth: get it in all the major distros then bash the g-p maintainer ;p
[01:01] <Amaranth> 0.8 is now on the same level as gmenu-simple-editor
[01:01] <Amaranth> it shows menus and can toggle things on and off :D
[01:01] <Lathiat> :)
[01:02] <Amaranth> http://rafb.net/paste/results/GxCVPn71.html
[01:02] <Amaranth> evil code
[01:02] <Lathiat> looks lovely :)
[01:03] <Amaranth> but so far after the initial long load time (which i know how to fix) everything is instant, no waiting to reload the entire menu layout from pyxdg anymore
[01:03] <bob2> Amaranth: did you explain the pyxdg problem to Mez?
[01:03] <Amaranth> bob2: yeah
[01:03] <bob2> Amaranth: thanks :)
[01:03] <Amaranth> bob2: he said fix g-a-i and backport it :P
[01:04] <Mez> actualkly, you said that
[01:04] <Amaranth> i did?
[01:04] <bob2> wtf
[01:04] <Amaranth> i must have been up too long
[01:04] <Mez> lol
[01:04] <bob2> at least make it conflict
[01:04] <Mez> I didnt say much apart from why should it conflict if g-a-i is meant to use it
[01:04] <bob2> randomly breaking g-a-i for people is terrible
[01:05] <Amaranth> hey, if g-a-i wasn't setting pyxdg's locale and just letting it figure out the locale on it's own this wouldn't be a problem :0
[01:05] <Amaranth> err, :)
[01:07] <Lathiat> Amaranth: ooc, how do you control visibility?
[01:07] <Amaranth> Lathiat: what?
[01:07] <bob2> do *something*
[01:07] <Lathiat> Amaranth: how do you make an item invisible?
[01:07] <Lathiat> like, technically
[01:07] <bob2> if this was debian, someone would have an RC bug by now
[01:07] <Lathiat> im just randomly curious
[01:07] <Lathiat> whats g-a-i?
[01:07] <Amaranth> Lathiat: you set NoDisplay=true in the .desktop file or use an <Exclude> in applications.menu
[01:08] <Lathiat> Amaranth: so the user has a local applications.menu they can modify?
[01:08] <Amaranth> Lathiat: one gets created in ~/.config/menus/applications.menu by PyXDG
[01:09] <Lathiat> Amaranth: ah, cool
[01:09] <bob2> Amaranth: Mez if you're not seriously going to patch g-a-i, you need to add a conflict.  or something.
[01:09] <bob2> leaving it broken is just crappy.
[01:10] <Amaranth> bob2: I'm not a backports guy, it's not up to me. :)
[01:10] <Amaranth> afaik g-a-i is broken in breezy too
[01:10] <Mez> bob2 - It's broken in unofficial - I've no idea why, and no idea where to fix it
[01:11] <Amaranth> Mez: it's broken in the official ones too because of pyxdg
[01:11] <bob2> Mez: is unofficial in ubuntu.com?
[01:11] <bob2> right
[01:11] <Amaranth> Mez: make pyxdg conflict with g-a-i
[01:11] <ogra> Amaranth, doesnt that break breezy ?
[01:11] <bob2> versioned conflicts, yay
[01:11] <Amaranth> bleh, he has to make it work with breezy too?
[01:11] <Mez> Amaranth, theres been changes to crap in the package I dont know about - I dont have access to it.
[01:12] <ogra> bob2, eeek
[01:12] <Mez> this is all on the UNOFFICIAL servers
[01:12] <Mez> which is going to be 403'd soon enough anyways
[01:12] <bob2> Amaranth says it's in the "official" backports archive, too
[01:12] <bob2> are yo usure that's not the case?
[01:13] <Mez> it is not in official
[01:13] <Amaranth> smeg isn't in official?
[01:13] <Mez> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/hoary-backports.all.i386
[01:13] <Mez> smeg is
[01:13] <Mez> pydxg isnt
[01:13] <Amaranth> pyxdg has to be
[01:13] <Amaranth> it's called python-xdg
[01:13] <bob2> I thought smeg needed the new python-xdg?
[01:13] <Amaranth> it does
[01:14] <Mez> python-xdg isnt in official either
[01:14] <Amaranth> ...
[01:14] <Amaranth> then smeg doesn't work
[01:14] <bob2> pyxdg is the source package
[01:14] <Mez> smeg doesnt seme to be in official eother
[01:14] <Mez> either *
[01:15] <Amaranth> ok, i'll edit ubotu and tell it to stop telling users to look in backports :/
[01:15] <Mez> It's in old backports Amaranth 
[01:15] <bob2> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/s/smeg/
[01:15] <bob2> that doesn't look like a proper ubuntu version
[01:15] <Amaranth> Mez: old backports are less than useful
[01:15] <Amaranth> no offense
[01:15] <bob2> smeg_0.7.5-0ubuntu1~hoary1 
[01:15] <Mez> bob2, yeah, weird that-  it was inthe buildQ ... but now it isnt
[01:15] <Amaranth> but there is some real crack in there
[01:15] <Amaranth> bob2: that's the backports versioning
[01:15] <Kamion> bob2: looks reasonable to m
[01:15] <Kamion> e
[01:16] <Mez> Amaranth, smeg was in official
[01:16] <bob2> Kamion: I mean, "not in an ubuntu release"; isn't that version a backport-esque one?
[01:16] <Mez> but it doesnt seem to be now
[01:16] <ogra> Mez, its there:  smeg_0.7.5-0ubuntu1~hoary1_all.deb
[01:16] <Mez> ogra - yes, it may be there.
[01:17] <Mez> but, it USED to be in the lists for tbe buildd
[01:17] <Mez> now it isnt
[01:17] <Mez> so i dont know if it's actually in the repo, or just dead
[01:17] <bob2> dude
[01:17] <ogra> it built already...
[01:17] <dholbach> i'm off - see you later
[01:17] <bob2> it's in the backports repository
[01:17] <bob2> Mez: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary-backports/universe/binary-i386/Packages.bz2
[01:17] <ogra> but will be uninstallable
[01:17] <Amaranth> python-xdg isn't in backports though?
[01:17] <bob2> Package: smeg
[01:17] <bob2> Filename: pool/universe/s/smeg/smeg_0.7.5-0ubuntu1~hoary1_all.deb
[01:18] <Mez> python-xdg = in backports unofficial
[01:18] <pitti> dholbach: have fun
[01:18] <Amaranth> Mez: Like I said, I will not tell users to use the old backports.
[01:18] <Mez> bob2, fair enough - confused as to why it;s not showing up
[01:18] <Mez> Amaranth, so what needs to be done to get smeg working in new backports?
[01:18] <ogra> woah.... building moodle takes more then 30min .... its just copying php files.... o_O
[01:18] <bob2> xdg is not in backports, afaict
[01:18] <pitti> Riddell: ok, I fixed the support dependency and the notification file name
[01:19] <doko> hi all
[01:19] <Riddell> pitti: I'll await the storm on breezy-changes then :)
[01:19] <Amaranth> Mez: fix g-a-i and backport it and pyxdg or add a versioned conflict against g-a-i in pyxdg and backport just it
[01:19] <bob2> doko: a zope3 guy was looking for you yesterday
[01:20] <bob2> Amaranth: how is g-a-i broken using official backports if they don't contain xdg?
[01:20] <Amaranth> bob2: he asked how to get smeg into backports
[01:20] <bob2> Amaranth: smeg is in backports
[01:20] <Amaranth> it isn't installable
[01:20] <doko> bob2: which channel?
[01:20] <bob2> doko: here
[01:20] <Amaranth> it can't be, it need pyxdg 0.14
[01:21] <bob2> doko: philiKON
[01:21] <pitti> Hi doko, welcome back
[01:21] <pitti> Riddell: language packs are filtered, they won't appear :-)
[01:21] <Mez> Amaranth, well if it's showing up in Packages.bz2 - it's installable right?
[01:21] <Amaranth> Mez: err, it can't install, it isn't possible
[01:21] <bob2> Mez: no
[01:21] <bob2> Mez: that just means it's available
[01:21] <Amaranth> Mez: the package actually does depend on pyxdg >= 0.14, i'm not stupid :)
[01:21] <bob2> it's up to the people who upload it or request the build to make sure it's installable
[01:22] <Mez> bob2/Amaranth then shoulnt it have dep-waited on the buildd
[01:22] <bob2> no
[01:22] <bob2> it built fine
[01:22] <Mez> yes, and then it needs to be installed..
[01:22] <ogra> Mez, why should it dep wait ?
[01:22] <bob2> Mez: not to build it
[01:22] <bob2> to run it, perhaps
[01:22] <ogra> all build deps were fulfilled
[01:23] <bob2> presumably it has no test suite, tho
[01:23] <Amaranth> no, it's a GUI app :P
[01:24] <Amaranth> oh, you mean like ./configure checking? it uses distutils
[01:24] <Mez> so - Amaranth what needs to be done-  pydxg from breezy to be backported?
[01:24] <bob2> don't people test whether something works before asking it to be added to the backports repository?
[01:24] <Amaranth> Mez: with a versioned conflict against g-a-i in hoary
[01:24] <Mez> bob2, this was asked to be added when we thought it would build
[01:24] <Mez> Amaranth, whats the package name/
[01:25] <bob2> you need to test build, then test install, dude :)
[01:25] <Amaranth> python-xdg?
[01:25] <Mez> nvm
[01:25] <bob2> it'll build fine, it just won't be installable
[01:25] <Mez> Amaranth, to backprt that I need to get a main uploader to install it
[01:25] <Mez> modify it *
[01:25] <Mez> to put the conflict
[01:26] <Amaranth> seb128 seems to be the one that handles that package
[01:26] <seb128> which one?
[01:26] <Mez> pydxg
[01:27] <seb128> what is the issue with it?
[01:27] <Amaranth> seb128: in order to be backported it needs to conflict with the g-a-i in hoary
[01:27] <Mez> seb128, it needs to have a Conflict on the haory version of g-a-i to be backported
[01:28] <seb128> bah
[01:28] <seb128> I'll not that for next upload
[01:28] <seb128> but I already said changing packages only to fit backports is bad
[01:28] <Kamion> actually the Conflicts is not just to fit backports, it's for sane partial upgrades, surely?
[01:29] <Mez> mvo did the last upload it seems
[01:29] <seb128> dunno, pyxdg has not changed afaik
[01:29] <seb128> what file conflict?
[01:29] <Amaranth> from hoary?
[01:29] <Amaranth> the way configuration settings are set has changed completely
[01:30] <seb128> is there a file conflict?
[01:30] <Amaranth> this is why g-a-i fails in the first place
[01:30] <Amaranth> no
[01:30] <seb128> so what is the issue?
[01:30] <seb128> I'm not convinced that a Conflict is the right way to do what you want to do
[01:31] <Amaranth> g-a-i needs to be fixed in breezy and backported then
[01:32] <seb128> ie?
[01:32] <seb128> what is broken and what does fix it?
[01:33] <Amaranth> i know there was a patch in bugzilla to make g-a-i work with the new pyxdg API but i dunno if breezy has it
[01:34] <Amaranth> but i _really_ need to go to bed now, everything is a blur, my hands are shaking, and my eyes hurt
[01:34] <Amaranth> should have been in bed 3 hours ago...
[01:35] <pitti> seb128: ok, I can pull the big langpack upload trigger now :-)
[01:37] <mvo> Mez: can we talk about g-a-i and python-xdg in a couple of minutes? I would like to help you fixing it, but I'm a bit busy right now
[01:38] <mjg59> jdub: Once libvgahw.a is fixed
[01:38] <seb128> pitti: cool
[01:38] <jdub> mjg59: aha, cool - thanks :)
[01:40] <Mez> mvo: I've no idea whats going on with it - you'll need to talk with Amaranth 
[01:43] <ogra> seb128, ping
[01:43] <seb128> pong
[01:43] <ogra> seb128, what do you think about AudioCDBurning.... i'd like to move it to it implemented
[01:43] <ogra> -it
[01:44] <ogra> (after looking through the bug database indeed)
[01:44] <seb128> we are obviously not changing it
[01:45] <seb128> we have not get a lot of feedback but well, move it if you want
[01:45] <ogra> seb128, yep... thats what i thought...
[01:45] <JaneW> ogra: so whats the verdict...? do we need to get more feedback still?
[01:46] <ogra> JaneW, sure, but we wont change it in big amounts... the feedback will only be regular bug reports...
[01:46] <ogra> so its fine to move it (just doing)
[01:46] <JaneW> ogra: great thanks :)))
[01:49] <ogra> done :)
[01:50] <JaneW> ogra: ta - BTW mdz wanted me to swap implemented and completed around... 
[01:50] <ogra> oh
[01:50] <JaneW> I just changed it for you...
[01:51] <JaneW> with the right colour too ;)
[01:51] <ogra> thanks :)
[01:59] <Mez> mdz: ping
[02:00] <JaneW> *** Reminder: Special BreezyGoals Update Meeting in 3 hours time - Friday 5 August 2005, 15:00 UTC ***
[02:00] <mvo> Mez: he's probably sleeping
[02:00] <WaterSevenUb> Hi... gnome-app-install does not have a translatable menu entry... I would like to make a patch and correct that. No idea where to start. Help?
[02:01] <Mez> mvo: for when he wkes up
[02:02] <mvo> WaterSevenUb: have a look at http://www.niran.org/code/soc/
[02:06] <Mez> infinity: ping
[02:15] <pitti> elmo: sorry for the NEW flood of the langpacks...
[02:19] <hunger> pitti: Gibt's was neues bezglich des cryptodisk skriptes?
[02:19] <pitti> hunger: ELANG :) sorry, still no time for it
[02:19] <hunger> pitti: ELANG?
[02:20] <pitti> hunger: Inglisch schpoken hier :-)
[02:20] <hunger> pitti: Yeah, sorry, I meant to msg you personally.
[02:22] <WaterSevenUb> hhmm... it seems to me that GKSUEXEC (GKSU) does not have also a translatable GNOME menu entry "Run as different user".
[02:23] <WaterSevenUb> help?
[02:24] <hunger> do the restricted modules work in breezy? They modprobe fine here but lsmod claims they are not installed afterwards.
[02:25] <Mez> mvo: ping
[02:26] <mvo> Mez: pong
[02:26] <Mez> mvo: got a debdiff to fix one of your packages
[02:27] <mvo> Mez: nice, please mail it to me (or attach it to the bug if there is already one)
[02:27] <Mez> mvo: http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~mez/debdiff/bittornado.diff
[02:32] <Mez> It's just an unmet dep :d
[02:32] <Mez> mvo: which email address? michael.vogt@ubuntu.com ?
[02:32] <mvo> Mez: yes please! thanks 
[02:35] <yuacht> how stable is breezy atm? =)
[02:41] <seb128> pitti: do you know if we had any discussion about cdrdao for main?
[02:42] <\sh> seb128: for what do u need cdrdao? cue/bin stuff is handled as well bei cdrtools
[02:42] <\sh> s/bei/by/
[02:42] <seb128> nautilus-cd-burner uses that to duplicate CDs
[02:42] <ogra> seb128, we had this discussion...
[02:42] <seb128> when?
[02:42] <ogra> it was one reason we discarded gnomebaker
[02:42] <seb128> who "we"?
[02:42] <ogra> you and me
[02:43] <seb128> no
[02:43] <ogra> at udu and later here
[02:43] <seb128> we said that better to use gst than command line tools
[02:43] <seb128> for cdaudio
[02:43] <seb128> we never spoke to drop n-c-b
[02:43] <ogra> heh, nope
[02:43] <seb128> k, so n-c-b uses cdrdao
[02:43] <ogra> but we talke about cdrdao inclusion
[02:43] <seb128> that's a fact
[02:44] <\sh> seb128: can u fix it to use cdrtools?
[02:44] <seb128> how do you duplicate a CD with cdrtools?
[02:44] <\sh> dd to create the image + cdrtools to write
[02:45] <seb128> you want to make a patch for ncb ?
[02:46] <ogra> \sh, does it work on the fly if you got two CD roms ?
[02:46] <\sh> seb128: or read this one: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/man/README/README.copy
[02:46] <ogra> i think thats the rationale for using cdrdao...
[02:47] <ogra> ... not using temp space
[02:47] <Mez> doesnt cdrdao get set as suid root though
[02:47] <seb128> Mez: no
[02:48] <seb128> -rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 550600 2005-04-05 01:07 /usr/bin/cdrdao
[02:48] <ogra> no need for suid root stuff... we have pitti, we dont need root ;)
[02:48] <Mez> yeah, and it has to run as root
[02:48] <Mez> thats why we changed k3b not to use it IIRC
[02:48] <seb128> no
[02:49] <seb128> read /usr/share/doc/cdrdao/README.Debian
[02:49] <ogra> Mez, it should only be a matter o the right group settings
[02:49] <ogra> of even
[02:49] <seb128> it just no run with realtime 
[02:49] <\sh> seb128: realtime? 
[02:50] <seb128> \sh: scheduler priority
[02:50] <mvo> elmo: can you please sync python-apt from debian incoming (0.6.13.1) [override ok] ?
[02:50] <\sh> Mez: k3b needed it for vcd stuff because of cue/bin stuff and vcdimage
[02:51] <\sh> Mez: since cdrecord is supporting bin/cue k3b doesn't need it 
[02:51] <ogra> seb128, realtime stuff shouldnt be an issue with burnproof enabled...
[02:51] <ogra> you might create coasters on slow machines without burnproof
[02:51] <seb128> no it's not
[02:51] <\sh> ogra: and copying cds over two drives...should be working with dd if=/dev/cdrom | cdrecord .... -dev=<second drive>
[02:52] <seb128> anyway I don't want to discuss that for hours
[02:52] <ogra> \sh, thats not an option...
[02:52] <seb128> I'm just asking pitti if he has an idea of cdrdao is suitable for main
[02:52] <seb128> not discuss how it works
[02:53] <ogra> heh... ok
[02:53] <seb128> I'm too busy to patch n-c-b all over the place to use other commands and change all the parsing code
[02:53] <seb128> so either somebody wants to patch that
[02:53] <seb128> or I'll ask to use cdrdao
[03:05] <Mez> hmmles
[03:06] <Mez> should a package be changed to suggest firefox instead of mozilla-firefox
[03:08] <pitti> Mez: yes, for breezy
[03:09] <Mez> cool
[03:12] <seb128> pitti: read my question?
[03:12] <mdke> Mez, quick backport question: is it correct that the official backports will receive no testing, whereas old backports did?
[03:12] <Mez> mdke: that's still to be checked
[03:12] <pitti> seb128: just returned from lunch
[03:12] <pitti> seb128: I talked with haggai about it a bit
[03:12] <pitti> seb128: do we need it?
[03:12] <Mez> we try to test them before hand ... but, theres shouldnt e too many problems as they;re all from breezy
[03:13] <mdke> Mez, well... so adding backports is essentially similar to simply getting packages from breezy (unstable)
[03:13] <seb128> pitti: right click on a CD from computer:///, you have an option to duplicate the CD ... that uses cdrdao
[03:13] <seb128> pitti: we can
[03:13] <seb128> 1- suggest cdrdao, let it to universe, and not get that working out of the box
[03:14] <seb128> 2- promote cdrdao
[03:14] <seb128> 3- rewrite n-c-b code to use something else
[03:14] <seb128> I'm too busy for 3, so either somebody step for that
[03:14] <pitti> seb128: as long as it's not setuid root, I don't mind including it into main
[03:14] <seb128> or that's one of the other options
[03:14] <pitti> and I don't think it's necessary
[03:14] <seb128> pitti: k, thanks 
[03:14] <seb128> pitti: it's not by setuid by default
[03:15] <pitti> I talked with haggai about several cdrdao issues, but I can't remember any more...
[03:15] <seb128> what is necessary? setuid or the duplicate feature?
[03:15] <mdke> Mez, the stability section on the UbuntuBackports page is wrong then?
[03:15] <pitti> setuid, and other cdrdao bugs
[03:15] <Mez> that page needs updating mdke 
[03:16] <seb128> pitti: k
[03:16] <pitti> seb128: out of the box would mean to include it in desktop seed=
[03:16] <seb128> pitti: I'll ping mdz when he's around about this before making a wiki page
[03:16] <seb128> pitti: yeah, I know
[03:16] <mdke> Mez, that's what I said
[03:16] <Mez> mdke: that's for the old backprots
[03:16] <pitti> ?
[03:17] <Mez> mdke: feel free to update
[03:17] <mdke> Mez, well the "How to use" section is for new backports isn't it?
[03:17] <seb128> pitti: is this "?" for me?
[03:17] <pitti> nevermind :-)
[03:17] <pitti> it belonged to the seed question
[03:19] <Mez> mdke: yes, someone from docteam changed it
[03:19] <mdke> Mez, ok i've made some changes to the page, better check
[03:20] <seb128> pitti: oh, yep, we should have it with the desktop
[03:20] <pitti> seb128: who was the libnotify maintainer again (nick)?
[03:20] <seb128> Chipx86
[03:20] <pitti> I continue debugging now
[03:20] <pitti> thanks
[03:20] <mdke> Mez, i wonder if bugs with the new backports should be filed as breezy bugs?
[03:21] <Mez> mdke: theres a place to file them
[03:21] <mdke> Mez, on the forum?
[03:21] <mdke> or malone?
[03:22] <Mez> mdke: https://launchpad.net/products/ubp-hoary/+filebug
[03:22] <mdke> ok i'll add that to the page
[03:22] <Mez> ;)
[03:23] <mdke> Mez, so if the bug is with breezy, you can easily push it along, that's cool
[03:24] <yuacht> how long is it until X is stable for all-day use in breezy? =)
[03:25] <mdke> Mez, ok page updated
[03:26] <janimo> yuacht, it is pretty usable already, see daniels' mail today on the ubuntu lists
[03:26] <pitti> seb128: do you know a bit about libpopt? Is it used in many gnome programs?
[03:26] <yuacht> will do! appearantly my subscription doesn't work then since i've recieved nothing, betted sign up again
[03:26] <seb128> pitti: yep and yep
[03:26] <pitti> seb128: it fails right on parsing the command line args with popt
[03:26] <pitti> seb128: so libpopt generally works on ppc?
[03:27] <seb128> correct
[03:27] <pitti> ok, thanks
[03:27] <seb128> np
[03:31] <bddebian> Hello
[03:31] <\sh> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/libopenh323-1.15.3c2_1.15.3-3_i386.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/libopenh323.so.1.15.3', which is also in package libopenh323-1.15.2c2
[03:33] <WaterSevenUb> Carlos: why are there Portuguese and Portuguese (Portugal), besides the brazilian portuguese? It seems a problem, no ? (i'll be back in a few minutes).
[03:35] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, because people choose to translate using those language codes, by default we are offering now Portuguese or Brazilian Portuguese and nothing more
[03:36] <crispin> \sh: yeah, I get that as well
[03:36] <hunger_> crispin: \sh: so did I.
[03:39] <carlos> pitti, how is called your script to extract .po and .pot files from build packages? extract_po?
[03:40] <pitti> carlos: pkgstriptranslations, it's a pacakge
[03:40] <carlos> ok
[03:40] <carlos> thanks
[03:44] <\sh> i just used dpkg --force-overwrite -i /var/cache/apt/archives/libopenh232*
[03:44] <\sh> now it's working
[03:46] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: hhmm... There are three types of "portuguese" in Rosetta. "Portuguese", "Portuguese (Portugal)", "Portuguese (Brazil)". The "Portuguese" is the active translation to Portuguese. However, if a user arrives to "Portuguese(Portugal)" it can translate too, perhaps the same templates that are already translated in "Portuguese". So, are the templates in "Portuguese (Portugal)" integrated to "Portuguese"=
[03:46] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: but if they are integrated it seems to me conflicts can arise.... 
[03:47] <carlos> wasabi, Portuguese(Portugal) does not appear to create new translations, only if someone created it before we "hide" it or if there is already a pt_PT.po file that gets imported into Rosetta
[03:48] <carlos> s/wasabi/WaterSevenUb/
[03:50] <calc> how do you make nfs work on ubuntu, it seems rpc is disabled for external interfaces
[03:50] <Lathiat> calc: apt-get install portmap?
[03:51] <ogra> calc, theris a howto on the wiki
[03:51] <calc> ah i found it now
[03:51] <calc> it is blocked by default and you have to allow it in hosts.allow
[03:53] <calc> hmm that comment i read was just junk
[03:53] <calc> heh
[04:00] <calc> even after doing all of that i still end up getting an "RPC: Program not registered" error
[04:00] <ogra> you started portmap and nfs-kernel-server ?
[04:01] <ogra> s/started/restarted/
[04:02] <calc> ah i forgot to restart nfs-kernel-server that was the problem, thanks
[04:02] <Lathiat> calc: have you got a firewall?
[04:02] <ogra> :)
[04:02] <Lathiat> ah
[04:02] <calc> now it acts like its mounting it but hangs
[04:02] <calc> Lathiat: not between the ubuntu box and knoppix machine trying nfs mount
[04:03] <calc> seems it just had to time out on something it eventually finished mounting
[04:04] <ogra> infinity, ping 
[04:07] <carlos> pitti, hi, around?
[04:08] <pitti> carlos: yes
[04:08] <carlos> pitti, I just sent you a draft of the spec about oo.org and firefox language packs
[04:09] <carlos> pitti, I did a mistake with the attachments
[04:09] <carlos> but you should have it in a new email
[04:09] <carlos> pitti, would you take a look on it before leaving today?
[04:09] <pitti> elmo: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg received a segmentation fault.
[04:10] <pitti> elmo: sorry, that was not for you
[04:10] <pitti> carlos: yes, sure
[04:10] <carlos> pitti, thank you 
[04:11] <carlos> pitti, I will send it again with your input changes and with copy to doko later today
[04:11] <doko> carlos: did you send something to me already?
[04:12] <carlos> doko, oh, are you online?
[04:12] <carlos> doko, I thought you were not....
[04:12] <doko> I was offline until 14:00 UTC
[04:14] <carlos> doko, sent
[04:16] <dholbach> re
[04:16] <doko> pitti: is there a list of locales/country codes for which lanugage packs are built?
[04:17] <mvo> elmo: synaptic sync from incoming please (support for apt >= 0.6.40)
[04:17] <pitti> yes
[04:18] <pitti> doko: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/countries http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/languages
[04:19] <pitti> doko: however, we don't have all of these
[04:19] <pitti> doko: apt-cache search language-pack
[04:30] <pef> hello
[04:33] <ogra> Kamion, i committed two small changes to the edubuntu seeds can you merge it ?
[04:33] <Kamion> merge to where?
[04:36] <Kamion> ogra: ^--
[04:40] <Mez> Cxx Transition at the moment is just a new soname right?
[04:40] <Mez> meh
[04:40] <Mez> nvm
[04:42] <mdz> seb128: yes?
[04:42] <mdz> Mez: yes?
[04:42] <mvo> good morning mdz 
[04:42] <mdz> morning
[04:43] <ogra> grmpf
[04:47] <seb128> mdz: hi
 pitti: right click on a CD from computer:///, you have an option to duplicate the CD ... that uses cdrdao
 pitti: we can
 1- suggest cdrdao, let it to universe, and not get that working out of the box
 2- promote cdrdao
 3- rewrite n-c-b code to use something else
 I'm too busy for 3, so either somebody step for that
[04:47] <seb128> 
[04:48] <pitti> brb
[04:48] <seb128> mdz: any opinion on moving cdrdao to desktop for that?
[04:50] <JaneW> *** Reminder: Special BreezyGoals Update Meeting in 10 mins time - Friday 5 August 2005, 15:00 UTC ***
[04:50] <JaneW> in #ubuntu-meeting
[04:50] <mdz> seb128: should be ok, as long as it isn't setuid or anything (main inclusion report)
[04:51] <seb128> mdz: k. I was asking if there is objections before making a wiki page for it. Thanks
[04:54] <Mez> what would the reason be for a package to just... not exist in breezy if it existed in hoayr
[04:55] <bddebian> Mez: It has been replaced / supersceded?
[04:56] <hunger> Any chance of getting the new qemu version into breezy? It is out for a while now... and the old deb is not even installable in breezy:-(
[04:57] <pitti> argh, I get a neverending succession of panel failures...
[04:57] <pitti> grumpf
[05:02] <seb128> pitti__: when that happens for the panel: gnome-session-remove gnome-panel && gnome-panel
[05:03] <pitti__> thanks
[05:07] <doko> carlos: where can I get the draft in text form?
[05:08] <Mez> bddebian, not as far as i can see
[05:11] <carlos> doko, It's a wiki only available from Brazil
[05:12] <sladen> hunger: if it's not installable, that's a bug and should be fixed
[05:12] <carlos> doko, I can send you the wiki page content as a text file if you want
[05:13] <doko> carlos: would be nice
[05:13] <sladen> hunger: however, it's UVF and so if it can be fixed with a patch (I think somebody mentioned it was the BIOS) that would be better
[05:13] <hunger> sladen: UVF?
[05:15] <janimo> qemu is in universe so no strict UVF
[05:15] <janimo> hunger, upstream version freeze
[05:16] <bddebian> Mez: What package?
[05:16] <carlos> doko, pitti sent
[05:16] <hunger> jamesh: What does that mean?
[05:17] <ogra> janimo, even universe packages need approval
[05:17] <janimo> elmo is known to sync if asked nicely ;)
[05:17] <ogra> janimo, (it is granted normally without probs, but UVF applies to universe too)
[05:17] <hunger> Well, qemu is not installable at this time and outdated on top of that;-)
[05:18] <janimo> hunger, debian does not have 7.1 either, maybe a bug needs to be filed on them 
[05:18] <janimo> 0.7.1
[05:18] <janimo> ogra, I know but it's not strict as I was saying :)
[05:19] <ogra> janimo, but there shouldnt be upstream version updates without a request...
[05:20] <janimo> ogra, sure
[05:41] <_d4vid> i become at start this.. 
[05:41] <_d4vid> gnome start
[05:42] <_d4vid> Error activating XKB configuration.
[05:42] <_d4vid> It can happen under various circumstances:
[05:42] <_d4vid> - a bug in libxklavier library
[05:42] <_d4vid> - a bug in X server (xkbcomp, xmodmap utilities)
[05:42] <_d4vid> - X server with incompatible libxkbfile implementation
[05:42] <_d4vid> X server version data:
[05:42] <_d4vid> The X.Org Foundation
[05:42] <_d4vid> 60802000
[05:42] <_d4vid> If you report this situation as a bug, please include:
[05:42] <_d4vid> - The result of xprop -root | grep XKB
[05:42] <_d4vid> - The result of gconftool-2 -R /desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/kbd
[05:42] <tseng> please dont flood the channel.
[05:42] <_d4vid> where can i post it _ 
[05:42] <_d4vid> ?..
[05:42] <HWolf> pastebin
[05:43] <Kamion> or a bug report
[05:46] <shaya> for those having problems with being unable to switch to VTs from X, I just fixed it for myself
[05:46] <shaya> purged xkeyboard-config (force-depends) and then reinstalled it
[05:46] <shaya> base.lst (which a bunch of symlinks pointed to) wasn't there
[05:46] <shaya> I then had to stop X and restart it for it to work.
[05:46] <Makako> I believe it's not only that, all special characters stopped working after a dist-upgrade
[05:47] <Makako> Even the pipe symbol and such
[05:47] <shaya> you can tell if this is a problem if you run setxkbmap and it complains about being unable to find some files
[05:47] <shaya> Makako: try what I just said
[05:47] <shaya> purge xkeyboard-config
[05:47] <shaya> reinstall it (apt-get -f install)
[05:47] <Makako> Thx
[05:47] <shaya> you probably don't have a base.lst file in /etc/X11/xkb/rules/
[05:49] <shaya> any change?
[05:50] <Makako> I just have no access to my Breezy installation.
[05:50] <shaya> ah
[05:51] <Makako> But the X packages seem to have more bugs: The link /etc/X11/X points to a file which doesn't exist
[05:51] <Makako> Most recent packaages
[05:52] <shaya> not on my system
[05:52] <_d4vid> Section "InputDevice"
[05:52] <_d4vid>         Identifier      "Generic Keyboard"
[05:52] <_d4vid>         Driver          "kbd"
[05:52] <shaya> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 17 2005-06-10 11:58 /etc/X11/X -> /usr/bin/X11/Xorg
[05:52] <_d4vid> is ok so ?
[05:52] <Makako>  /usr/bin/X11/Xorg doesn't exist anymore, the binary is in /usr/bin/X11R6/Xorg
[05:53] <shaya> hmm
[05:53] <shaya> on my system is exists
[05:53] <mdz> infinity: #ubuntu-meeting
[05:53] <Makako> I will do a fresh breezy install and dist-upgrade later today
[05:53] <shaya> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 17 2005-07-20 10:02 /usr/bin/X11/Xorg -> ../X11R6/bin/Xorg
[05:53] <shaya> maybe i created that?
[05:53] <shaya> don't remember
[05:53] <Makako> shaya: Maybe. ;)
[05:53] <shaya> dpkg -S doesn't find it
[05:54] <Makako> shaya: That's normal coz the link gets created with a post-install (or pre-install?) script
[05:54] <Makako> shaya: dpkg -S doesn't find these
[05:54] <shaya> greping dpkg/info/*
[05:54] <shaya> xserver-xorg.postinst:THIS_SERVER=/usr/bin/X11/Xorg
[05:55] <shaya> ln -sf "$THIS_SERVER" "$NEW_SERVER_SYMLINK"
[05:55] <Makako> hmm... 
[05:55] <shaya> hmm
[05:55] <shaya> cant tell what its doing
[05:55] <shaya> but its deffinitely trying to handle it
[05:55] <shaya> :)
[05:55] <Makako> seems like
[06:01] <Kamion> shaya: that symlink needs to be made absolute rather than relative
[06:01] <Kamion> because /usr/bin/X11 is a symlink to /usr/bin, so ../* symlinks pointing out of it are a bit of a movable feast
[06:03] <shaya> Kamion: so you're saying my X is going to break again?
[06:04] <Mez> daniels: ping
[06:04] <lamont> shaya: it's always going to break again, the question is "_when_?"
[06:43] <lifeless> seb128: when I install nautilus-python, then run nautiluls-file-management-properties it segfaults
[06:43] <lifeless> do you know/care/hint ?
[06:44] <lifeless> in fact, its called abort from within libnautilus-python.so
[06:46] <seb128> that's a known issue here and upstream
[06:46] <seb128> upstream recommended to drop the package
[06:47] <lifeless> ouch
[06:47] <seb128> there is a new upstream version since, but nautilus doesn't start here with it
[06:47] <seb128> so I've not uploaded it, I need to start that with jdahlin (upstream)
[06:47] <seb128> s/start/sort/
[06:48] <seb128> it's quite low priority atm though
[06:48] <lifeless> ok
[06:48] <lifeless> want a cheap hack to let it work ?
[06:48] <seb128> yes please
[06:49] <lifeless> src/nautilusmodule.c - comment out the Py_FatalError(..);
[06:49] <lifeless> that will make it not init the module peroperly, but letfile-management-properties work
[06:49] <seb128> k, will do that, so at least it doesn't crash nautilus for users who have it installed :)
[06:49] <lifeless> great, thanks
[06:49] <seb128> thanks
[06:49] <seb128> np
[06:50] <HiddenWolf> ubuntu-desktop depends gnomeoffice depends gimp depends libexif10 -> uninstallable
[06:50] <HiddenWolf> :(
[06:51] <Kamion> gimp is dep-wait aalib1-dev, needs a buildd admin to kick it
[06:51] <seb128> that's known and waiting for a buildd guy to kick the build
[06:51] <HiddenWolf> right. :)
[06:51] <HiddenWolf> xorg worked out of the box tho. At least, seems like it. :)
[06:51] <HiddenWolf> Go daniels!
[06:52] <Lathiat> haha
[06:52] <koke> pitti: what happened to https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/907 ??
[06:53] <pitti> koke: oh, apparently nobody uploaded it so far
[06:54] <koke> I tracked hoary-changes but forgot about it some time ago :)
[06:54] <koke> I've just found the bug again
[06:54] <koke> 6th in the list and assigned to me :)
[06:54] <pitti> from time to time I check the Debian status of such bugs, but it's not yet fixed in Debian
[06:55] <pitti> koke: if you wnat to upload it, just go ahead
[06:55] <koke> I can't now :(
[06:55] <koke> maybe yes, I don't have my gpg key here
[06:56] <koke> but meybe the package was uploaded to  my server signed
[06:56] <pitti> koke: then please email me a debdiff
[06:56] <pitti> koke: I don't look at malone bugs, but I read my email :-)
[06:56] <koke> :D
[07:04] <_d4vid> what i need to change that xkb works correctly ?
[07:08] <koke> pitti: sent
[07:08] <pitti> thx
[07:11] <ogra> pitti, already going ? or do you have a minute ? 
[07:11] <pitti> one minute is fine :-)
[07:11] <seb128> _d4vid: read daniels' mail on the lists from this morning
[07:12] <dholbach> bye everybody, i'm off
[07:22] <bob2> someone fix firefox so it doesn't loose my history when it crashes
[07:22] <bob2> kthx
[07:23] <Lathiat> the tab crash recover thing might be handy
[07:23] <bob2> losing the contents of the url history is just crap
[07:24] <Kamion> mdz: base-config ready to go for InstallerStage2Progress, but I have to run now, so it'll be when I get back
[07:26] <Nafallo> mako: we might have a swedish loco soon ;-)
[07:28] <CarlFK> Kamion - http://pictures.personnelware.com/carl/temp/P1010048.JPG
[07:29] <CarlFK> A) it errored, B) there is no bootstrap.log in /t/v/log
[07:29] <CarlFK> if I don't get a responce, ill bugzilla 
[07:33] <jasoncohen> Mez, thanks for getting mozilla-mplayer with gtk2 into breezy
[07:34] <Mez> jasoncohen, no problem
[07:34] <Mez> now i need to get it working on amd64
[07:34] <lamont> mdz: ping
[07:35] <mdz> Kamion: cool
[07:35] <mdz> lamont: pong
[07:35] <jasoncohen> Mez, any reason 2.85 isn't going into breezyZ?
[07:35] <jasoncohen> *breezy
[07:36] <Mez> UV
[07:36] <Mez> UVF *
[07:43] <pef> bye !
[07:43] <_d4vid> hi all
[07:43] <shaya> today's libsoup upgrade broke evolution
[07:43] <shaya> so name change (.7->.8) making calendar and tasklist unlinkable
[07:44] <shaya> mailer/contacts still work
[07:44] <shaya> seemingly a symlink from .8 -> .7 lets it work
[08:23] <CarlFK> ok, where do I post breezy bugs?
[08:23] <ogra> bugzilla and malone
[08:23] <CarlFK> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/
[08:24] <ogra> for main
[08:24] <CarlFK> breezy setup
[08:24] <ogra> breezy setup ? 
[08:24] <CarlFK> yes
[08:25] <ogra> you mean the installer ...
[08:25] <CarlFK> http://pictures.personnelware.com/carl/temp/P1010048.JPG
[08:25] <CarlFK> yes
[08:25] <ogra> bugzilla then
[08:25] <ogra> universe bugs go to https://launchpad.net/malone/, but the installer is surely main ;)
[08:25] <CarlFK> yup
[08:53] <RapaportM> can anyone troubleshoot an install error with me?
[08:58] <kilo-bug> where can i get wine
[08:59] <kilo-bug> plz
[08:59] <ogra> bottleshop ?
[08:59] <kilo-bug> haha
[08:59] <kilo-bug> lol
[08:59] <kilo-bug> :P
[08:59] <ogra> its in universe
[08:59] <kilo-bug> the application
[08:59] <kilo-bug> universe?
[08:59] <ogra> and this is a #ubuntu question ;)
[08:59] <kilo-bug> les
[09:00] <kilo-bug> wine alows you to run windows app in linux
[09:00] <dholbach> hi
[09:01] <dholbach> are there any other UbuntuExpress hackers around?
[09:01] <ogra> dholbach, they arent around here
[09:01] <ogra> dholbach, look if there is a #guadalinex channel....
[09:02] <dholbach> thanks ogra
[09:06] <sivang> hey people
[09:06] <sivang> how's friday going? :)
[09:06] <thesaltydog> not bad... summer holidays start on monday :-)
[09:06] <sivang> Can anybody help me set up a library build by autotools, I need to toss some functions in, and don't really know what's needed to do that using autotools.
[09:07] <sivang> thesaltydog: you a student ?
[09:07] <thesaltydog> sivang, ??? I was, many years ago...
[09:08] <sivang> thesaltydog: ah, you mentioned summer holidays so I thougth you were one..
[09:08] <thesaltydog> worker summer holidays
[09:13] <ogra> woah, my evo just crashed....
[09:14] <ogra> it has a autorecovery function for unsent messages now... extremly cool
[09:19] <eruin> what's the language select command thats supposed to be in system->administration in breezy now?
[09:20] <dholbach> eruin: doesnt it show up in the menu after installation?
[09:20] <eruin> dholbach, nope, not after a gnome-panel restart, x restart or even reboot
[09:20] <dholbach> wow
[09:20] <eruin> I thought so too
[09:20] <eruin> :P
[09:21] <dholbach> and you DID install language-selector? :)
[09:21] <eruin> not explicitly, no
[09:21] <dholbach> oh well... then :)
[09:21] <dholbach> hope that helps :)
[09:21] <eruin> doing that now :P
[09:21] <ogra> it just got/gets seeded to main...
[09:22] <eruin> I got a postinstall message telling me to step by that menu item thouigh ;)
[09:22] <ogra> so it will be a dependncy in the next ubuntu-desktop package
[09:23] <eruin> bah, the selector is crashing. if it works for you, I'll have to file a bug
[09:23] <eruin> but right now I'm out of battery power.
[09:23] <dholbach> eruin: when does it crash?
[09:24] <dholbach> right after startup?
[09:24] <eruin> yup
[09:24] <dholbach> maybe if you start it from the command line it says something
[09:24] <eruin> yeah, I get some python futurewarning stuff and AttributeError: 'Package' object has no attribute 'IsInstalled'
[09:25] <dholbach> ah ok... do you have a brand-new super-updated breezy?
[09:25] <dholbach> might be because of the latest apt/python-apt crack it needs
[09:25] <dholbach> that should be in the depends: line though
[09:27] <thesaltydog> ciao daniel, just a fast hello before leaving the pc..
[09:27] <dholbach> have a nice weekend/holidays
[09:27] <thesaltydog> you too! thanks.
[09:27] <dholbach> thank you :)
[09:29] <eruin> dholbach: http://pastebin.ubuntulinux.nl/979 if youre interested in the output
[09:30] <dholbach> eruin: thank you very much - i will tell mvo about it - he'll be delighted
[09:30] <eruin> :)
[09:30] <dholbach> eruin: did you upgrade to a newer apt?
[09:30] <eruin> yeah, earlier today
[09:31] <dholbach> oh well
[09:31] <dholbach> hm
[09:31] <eruin> I do a distupgrade probably ten times a day
[09:31] <eruin> :P
[09:31] <dholbach> i see :)
[09:31] <dholbach> ok... i'll forward his message to him next week
[09:31] <eruin> thanks mate ;)
[09:32] <dholbach> de rien :)
[10:02] <lifeless> mdz: around ?
[10:06] <doko> carlos: updated the wiki text, sent you email
[10:10] <carlos> doko, cool, thanks
[10:13] <HiddenWolf> yuk, gthumb is still uninstallable
[10:25] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[10:30] <jdub> Kamion: woooo!
[10:34] <lifeless> sebbtw, python-autilus 0.4.0 works for me
[10:34] <lifeless> bah
[10:38] <mdz> lifeless: barely
[10:40] <thesaltydog> c' qualcuno pratico di gpog che mi d una mano? Sono all'inizio...
[10:40] <thesaltydog> sorry.. wrong channel..
[10:41] <lifeless> mdz: nevermind, we decided it was crack.
[10:41] <lifeless> oh, and I've signed the Coc now :) ... we've fixed subkey support in launchpad
[11:02] <dholbach> robitaille: your jdub mail was WAY cool :)
[11:03] <doko> mdz: are driver updates for l-r-m be possible after Aug 11?
[11:06] <sabdfl> jdub: ping
[11:33] <Kamion> hmm, I guess KDE should only have the KDE langpacks seeded, not GNOME
[11:34] <Kamion> s/KDE should/Kubuntu should/
[11:34] <Kamion> Edubuntu looks like it needs both GNOME and KDE langpacks
[11:35] <Mez> hmm, how do you get the source our of an rpm/srpm
[11:35] <hubW> Mez: alien -t rpmfile.src.rpm
[11:36] <Kamion> 'rpm2cpio | cpio -id' on the .srpm
[11:36] <hubW> or that :-)
[11:36] <Mez> lol
[11:37] <ogra> Kamion, it does...sadly :/
[11:37] <Mez> Kamion, do I just pipe the file into that or something?
[11:38] <Kamion> man rpm
[11:38] <Kamion> er
[11:38] <Kamion> man rpm2cpio
[11:38] <lamont> mdz: eta on i386 is ~60 min to upload
[11:41] <Kamion> so looks like I should install language-pack-$LL and language-pack-gnome-$LL on Ubuntu, and language-pack-$LL and language-pack-kde-$LL on Kubuntu
[11:42] <Kamion> ogra: for Edubuntu, should I install all three sets by default?
[11:42] <ogra> yes
[11:42] <Kamion> ok
[11:42] <ogra> and at some point even all languages ...
[11:43] <aigarius> libopenh323-1.15.3c2 is broken in breezy - it must declare a conflict on libopenh323-1.15.2c2. breaks gnomemeeting
[11:43] <ogra> aigarius, its fixed
[11:44] <ogra> dunno if its already in the archive
[11:44] <Nafallo> ogra: not yet
[11:44] <Nafallo> atleast that's my experience ;-)
[11:44] <aigarius> ogra, that is the best reply to a bug report :)
[11:45] <ogra> Accepted openh323 1.15.3-3ubuntu1 (source)
[11:45] <ogra> look if you already have this version...if yes, file a bug... if no, just wat
[11:45] <ogra> wait even
[11:45] <aigarius> no my version was 1.15.3-3
[11:46] <ogra> lamont Cxx transition breakage
[11:46] <aigarius> lamont, package name update due to C++ transition
[11:46] <lamont> ah, binpackage conflicts, ok
[11:47] <Nafallo> lamont: :-)
[11:48] <Nafallo> why does upgrade-notifier tell me there are three updates when there isn't?
[11:50] <aigarius> applet looks at all updates, but the app filters out the impossible ones :)
[11:52] <Nafallo> aigarius: nope, there are nine impossibles :-)
[11:53] <Kamion> ok, cdimage should handle new language packs now
[11:53] <Nafallo> xlibs, xlibs-data and xorg-common is not impossible though. but they doesn't show up on the list.
[11:53] <Nafallo> strange
[11:53] <Kamion> update-manager only does things that work by 'apt-get upgrade', i.e. no package additions or removals
[11:53] <Nafallo> nice Kamion :-)
[11:53] <ogra> Kamion, thanks
[11:54] <aigarius> Nafallo, exactly. the application says you that it will not update this and that, but the tray applet still thinks that these packages are updatable
[11:54] <Nafallo> aigarius: synaptic does not say that though.
[11:55] <Nafallo> this is strange. first time I stumbled upon it to.
[11:58] <Nafallo> apt-get --dry-run upgrade agrees those three should be installable.
[11:59] <Kamion> lamont: hmm, d'oh, I just did an ia64 daily d-i build by mistake
[11:59] <Kamion> I'd forgotten you'd disabled them
[11:59] <lamont> Kamion: np/
[12:00] <lamont> it was more me trying to avoid causing the extra digit when I finally do build a kernel that works
[12:00] <Kamion> were they disabled because newer builds would be b0rken?
[12:00] <lamont> older builds are b0rken, too.
[12:00] <Kamion> too late, I caused the extra digit for the other arches anyway because I needed to test my cdebconf kickstart fix from earlier today fairly urgently
[12:00] <lamont> our 2.6.12 and ia64 don't like each other very much
[12:00] <lamont> np
[12:01] <lamont> it was more just a case of 'it's trivial to turn off, and won't work in any case' kind of thing for ia6
[12:01] <lamont> 43
[12:01] <Kamion> ia643? :)
[12:01] <lamont> feh
[12:01] <lamont> damn keyboard
[12:01] <lamont> Kamion: for console-data/hppa, should I just add it in the same place as ia64 sits???
[12:02] <Kamion> s'pose so, I don't always understand console-* so well
[12:02] <Kamion> following existing practice++