[04:52] <Kamion> aargh, I have an urgent thing I've just remembered about that I need to buy today before the shops close; I'm going to be a little late for the goals update, sorry
[04:52] <Kamion> hopefully ~10 minutes
[04:54] <JaneW> ok
[04:55] <JaneW>  *** Reminder: Special BreezyGoals Update Meeting in 5 mins time  ***
[04:55] <pitti> Hi
[04:55] <Nafallo> hi pitti :-)
[04:55] <baggins> can i say hello too?
[04:56] <dholbach> JaneW: daniel elstner won't make it, but he'll write a detailed mail to everybody involved in GraphicalPartitioningTool asap - i can give details, when we're at it
[04:56] <JaneW> dholbach: ok thanks
[04:57] <JaneW> are all BreezyGoals updates done yet?
[04:57] <JaneW> we will no doubt be doing some during and after the meeting too...
[04:58] <Nafallo> fabbione: aren't you on VAC? ;-)
[04:58] <JaneW> hi fabbione!
[04:58] <fabbione> JaneW: thanks for updating LinuxroadMap
[04:58] <JaneW> how's the semi-holiday
[04:58] <Nafallo> fabbione: hi anyway! :-)
[04:58] <fabbione> Nafallo: yes.. but JaneW did call :)
[04:58] <JaneW> fabbione: np
[04:58] <fabbione> JaneW: progressing :)
[04:58] <Nafallo> fabbione: hehe, and the kernel upload? ;-)
[04:58] <JaneW> fabbione: we can do yours first so you can go...
[04:58] <fabbione> JaneW: we will get the garden room done by thursday i think
[04:59] <fabbione> Nafallo: well.. i had to wait for the shower to be free :)
[04:59] <ogra> fabbione, please update the goals page if its done :p
[04:59] <fabbione> Nafallo: so i kept myself busy
[04:59] <Nafallo> fabbione: lol
[04:59] <JaneW> is mdz in the house?
[04:59] <mdz> yep
[04:59] <JaneW> hi
[04:59] <fabbione> JaneW: thanks, that would be nice
[04:59] <mdz> 10 seconsd by my clock ;-)
[05:00] <ogra> oh, we have time
[05:00] <jbailey> Woot ntp
[05:00] <mdz> good morning, everyone
[05:00] <JaneW> any obkection to starting with fabbione ? so we don;t take up any more of his vac than neccesary?
[05:00] <fabbione> ogra: my stuff is all green.. almost like the grass i was smoking today ;)
[05:00] <mdz> JaneW: was already planning to
[05:00] <highvoltage> good morning.
[05:00] <ogra> fabbione, lol :)
[05:00] <JaneW> after that we'll run down the list from top to bottom
[05:00] <baggins> heheh
[05:00] <jbailey> Great way to throw off all of our meetings, someone needs to root ntp.ubuntulinux.org =)
[05:00] <mdz> thanks everyone for attending
[05:00] <JaneW> fabbione: !
[05:00] <fabbione> JaneW: !
[05:00] <mdz> Nafallo: no, the singing happened earlier in the evening.  at that point I was croaking ;-)
[05:00] <mdz> as JaneW says, we're going to run down the list and get goal updates from everyone
[05:00] <Nafallo> mdz: hehe, oki :-)
[05:01] <mdz> if there's a blocking issue or something further to discuss, we'll take it to another time and forum
[05:01] <mdz> so we won't keep everyone here for very long
[05:01] <JaneW> one note
[05:01] <mdz> fabbione: you're up
[05:01] <fabbione> ok for Breezy i had 3 goals..
[05:01] <mdz> JaneW: yes?
[05:01] <fabbione> let's start in order
[05:01] <fabbione> ClusterFilesystem
[05:01] <JaneW> if there's an item in the goal which is deferred, but otheriwse the goal is complete, that item must be listed in the deferred goals table at the bottom of the page
[05:01] <JaneW> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals
[05:02] <fabbione> it's Completed. I am regularly importing bug fixes from upstream and push stuff back. Both upstreams are really good and cooperation is great.
[05:02] <fabbione> there are no deferred issues at them moment
[05:03] <fabbione> any questions about ClusterFS?
[05:03] <JaneW> fabbione: so there's nothing more to be done -other than bug fixes that come up from time to time?
[05:03] <JaneW> signed and sealed...
[05:03] <fabbione> JaneW: correct... that's just what i would consider normal package maintainance.
[05:04] <fabbione> Next one is InstallerVolumeManager
[05:04] <pitti> sorry for being late, network trouble
[05:04] <fabbione> it has been implemented on top of a prototype.
[05:04] <fabbione> it is working on amd64/i386 and all the arches that have LVM support on parted (if i remember the name right)
[05:05] <fabbione> it is offered as an installation option because ppc lacks it
[05:05] <fabbione> and can't be default
[05:05] <fabbione> this will be done for breezy+1
[05:05] <fabbione> also a major redesign of a few installer bits are required for a better implementation.
[05:05] <mdz> I don't think we want it to be the default; most users don't need that complexity
[05:06] <fabbione> anyway it works and it has been uploaded
[05:06] <fabbione> mdz: we discussed it in the specs iirc and we wanted to have it as default for server install
[05:06] <JaneW> fabbione: it says it still need testing?
[05:06] <fabbione> and we lack a GUI
[05:06] <hunger> fabbione: Cool, I need to test that once I find a computer to do that on!
[05:06] <fabbione> JaneW: that is right.. I did test it on my machines and it did work fine...
[05:07] <JaneW> ok, so who can drive it through to completed?
[05:07] <fabbione> hadn't hear any report of "It did kill my Terabyte of warez" yet
[05:07] <fabbione> I need somebody to test on amd64
[05:07] <JaneW> BTW I swaped Implemented and Completed around....
[05:07] <fabbione> i don't have one ...
[05:07] <ogra> i have o amd64 to install on :(
[05:07] <fabbione> JaneW: ah ok.. yeah we need an extra test on amd64
[05:07] <ogra> no
[05:08] <fabbione> and for breezy + 1 to review the overall
[05:08] <JaneW> ogra: no volunteering!
[05:08] <mdz> FYI, the target status for goals at FeatureFreeze is Implemented
[05:08] <ogra> JaneW, woud be easy to test during a edubuntu install ;)
[05:08] <JaneW> ogra: oic, ok then ;)
[05:08] <mdz> for goals which are not implemented by feature freeze, we'll need to take a decision on whether to drop them (according to priority, etc.)
[05:08] <JaneW> mdz: ok
[05:08] <fabbione> ok.. there is nothing more for InstallerVolumeManager
[05:09] <JaneW> mdz: so we don't need to push the implmented ones too hard right now?
[05:09] <fabbione> any questions? and no.. there is no GUI yet for it.. 
[05:09] <mdz> JaneW: better to have more implemented goals than a few completed ones, yes
[05:09] <fabbione> (the one shipped by Fedora crashes)
[05:09] <fabbione> (and it's very buggy atm)
[05:09] <JaneW> fabbione: can you make a note of the revision requirements in the deferred table is necessary?
[05:09] <mdz> testing naturally occurs post-featurefreeze
[05:09] <JaneW> s/is/if
[05:09] <fabbione> JaneW: yes i will, if you don't mind when i am back :)
[05:09] <JaneW> fabbione: np
[05:10] <fabbione> JaneW: perfect.
[05:10] <fabbione> the last one is LinuxKernelRoadmap
[05:10] <fabbione> we did manage to do most of the specs
[05:10] <fabbione> but:
[05:10] <fabbione> 1) we did specs too much
[05:11] <fabbione> 2) the team has been reduced in numbers so 1 did grow a bit
[05:11] <fabbione> generally the situation is looking good
[05:11] <fabbione> 2.6.12 seems a farly stable kernel
[05:11] <fabbione> and the normal process of bug fixing is taking place on a regular base
[05:11] <JaneW> ;)
[05:11] <JaneW> which one is that? (name?)
[05:11] <fabbione> there should be a bit of movement in a week when i will be back
[05:11] <fabbione> (have to sync a few things around)
[05:12] <fabbione> JaneW: name of what?
[05:12] <JaneW> fabbione: again, when you are back please add deferred bits to table, or send to me and I'll do it...
[05:12] <mdz> fabbione: regarding the new features in the spec, which ones have been implemented (or will be by feature freeze) and which are deferred?
[05:12] <JaneW> fabbione: I meant the kernel - never mind
[05:12] <fabbione> JaneW: yeps.. absolutely
[05:13] <JaneW> fabbione: your goals are looking great.
[05:13] <fabbione> mdz: it's all listed in the specs. I did update the specs on a regular base.
[05:13] <JaneW> fabbione: are you able to comment on the status of the goals/bounties your students are working on?
[05:13] <fabbione> mdz: do you want a summary here?
[05:13] <Kamion> back
[05:13] <fabbione> (but it will take a bit of time)
[05:13] <JaneW> fabbione: will any of them be ready/usable for breezy?
[05:13] <mdz> fabbione: yes, and the status should be recorded on breezygoals via janew, rather than changing the spec itself (so that we can see at a glance)
[05:14] <fabbione> JaneW: no more than you atm.
[05:14] <mdz> fabbione: just a very quick yes/no for each point
[05:14] <fabbione> JaneW: because they didn't ship any code and you should have received the last status report from them ( i didn't)
[05:14] <JaneW> fabbione: ok
[05:14] <fabbione> mdz: ok.. one second..
[05:15] <fabbione> mdz: we will stay with gcc-3.4 for breezy. 4.0 isn't ready yet and viceversa
[05:15] <mdz> we need to go much faster than this in order to get to everyone; 15 minutes per person will become a >2 hour meeting
[05:15] <mdz> everyone should have summaries prepared in advance\
[05:15] <fabbione> we are stabilizing via 2.6.12.X
[05:16] <fabbione> we are monitoring 3rd part drivers automatically
[05:16] <fabbione> we switched to HIGHMEM on i386 (no breakage reported)
[05:16] <fabbione> SMP/UP costs and different flavours reduction is deferred for several tech reasons.
[05:17] <fabbione> linux-non-supported-modules has been deferred for now
[05:17] <fabbione> new abichecker has been deferred. the actual one is still holding fine without major headackes.
[05:18] <fabbione> -dbg kernels has been implemented as "we ship debugging configs". we can't ship the binaries
[05:18] <fabbione> (150MB for each image is plain too much)
[05:18] <fabbione> we implemented the "linux" package for the arches where it can be done
[05:19] <fabbione> we deferred Debian <-> Ubuntu build system. Debian arrived a bit too late for breezy.
[05:19] <fabbione> We deferred the build of daily git snapshots. It was a low priority in any case
[05:19] <fabbione> we deferred the automatic build of 3rd part modules on abi changes. (still low priority)
[05:20] <fabbione> we implemented the notification applet on upgrades
[05:20] <fabbione> oh clearly.. new upstreams for everything has been done...
[05:20] <mdz> ok, that's everything from LKR right?
[05:20] <fabbione> and for some subsystems like alsa and acpi we are ahead of linus' tree
[05:20] <fabbione> yes
[05:21] <JaneW> shew, that's only 3 goals done
[05:21] <mdz> ok, great, thanks for the update
[05:21] <fabbione> i think you should skip goals details :)
[05:21] <mdz> fabbione: if a goal is only partially complete, we need the details
[05:22] <JaneW> fabbione: you are second on a few goals too, are the leads for those here?
[05:22] <mdz> but as I asked on the mailing list, everyone should be ready with an update so that we can go quickly
[05:22] <fabbione> JaneW: dunno..
[05:22] <JaneW> i.e. pitti, jbailey, daniels
[05:22] <jbailey> I'm here for NFSRoot
[05:22] <mdz> they should all be here
[05:23] <mdz> let's move on
[05:23] <fabbione> i think daniels is missing
[05:23] <JaneW> just daniels away I think
[05:23] <ogra> yup
[05:23] <mdz> JaneW: hmm?  did daniels say he would not be here?
[05:23] <baggins> daniels was around a few minutes ago. i just spoke to him
[05:23] <fabbione> yes only daniels
[05:23] <ogra> (without fixing X for amd64 *whine*)
[05:23] <JaneW> XRoadmap
[05:23] <mdz> we'll have daniels give us that update
[05:24] <JaneW> ok
[05:24] <JaneW> thanks fabbione.
[05:24] <fabbione> JaneW: no problem :)
[05:24] <JaneW> ok Edubuntu - ogra
[05:24] <mdz> ogra: ready to go next?
[05:24] <ogra> yup
[05:24] <fabbione> i am back to do some cement :)
[05:24] <fabbione> cya guys
[05:24] <dholbach> fabbione: have fun :)
[05:24] <jsgotangco> hi all (arrived on time i guess)
[05:25] <ogra> edubuntu is WIP currently, a roadmap is here: http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuOneDotZeroRoadmap
[05:26] <ogra> it will be ready for breezy...
[05:26] <pitti> well, I have serious issues with accepting MoinMoin and similar stuff to main...
[05:26] <mdz> what is done, and what remains to be done?
[05:26] <ogra> pitti, mediawiki
[05:26] <pitti> erm, mediawiki, right
[05:26] <mdz> the packages are not in main yet, and that is a major issue
[05:26] <pitti> I would *like* to see MoinMoin instead, sorry :-)
[05:26] <pitti> gcompris still needs some work
[05:26] <ogra> pitti its my fallback, but mark and we all commited o mediawiki
[05:26] <mdz> pitti: let's have that discussion at an edubuntu meeting
[05:26] <ogra> yup
[05:26] <pitti> sure
[05:27] <mdz> ogra: so what is complete so far with edubuntu?
[05:27] <JaneW> ogra: how sure are you that we'll have an installable CD by 11/08?
[05:27] <Kamion> note that cdimage only builds from main
[05:27] <ogra> JaneW, we already have a installable CD ...
[05:27] <ogra> yes i noted that :)
[05:27] <JaneW> ok... thought it was still broken
[05:28] <ogra> it is, but its installable
[05:28] <mdz> is it?  xlibs was broken until today
[05:28] <ogra> and all isuus can be worked around as soon as the latest X is on the CD
[05:28] <mdz> X wasn't installable for me
[05:28] <ogra> mdz, yes
[05:28] <ogra> but i can install a system 
[05:28] <JaneW> ok s/installable/fixed
[05:28] <mdz> installable = installable
[05:28] <mdz> if the installation fails, it isn't installable
[05:29] <ogra> it wont be fixed before the packages are all in main..
[05:29] <ogra> but it will be easy to work around that...
[05:29] <mdz> ogra: what we need is a very brief summary of what is done, and what remains to be done
[05:30] <ogra> since with the exeption of mediawiki all packages are there and instalable
[05:30] <mdz> we are not going into detail here; there is no time
[05:30] <mdz> we're trying to get an overview of all feature development
[05:31] <ogra> moving the packages to main, add the blacklist package, fix ldm, package the new teachertool.... build the custom config on top of the CD
[05:31] <ogra> ^^^  remains to be done
[05:31] <ogra> most of this i will have done before 11th
[05:31] <mdz> ogra: ok, and what has already been done over the past 3 months?
[05:32] <ogra> test the server setup collect the packages prepare custom ui changes for kde packages in gnome, build the seeds 
[05:32] <ogra> build a CD
[05:33] <ogra> thats all... + a lot of discussions ...
[05:33] <mdz> the server setup and the ui changes are in breezy today?
[05:33] <ogra> moodle changes just uploaded....
[05:34] <ogra> schooltool doesnt ned changes, on the mediawiki packages i'm currently working 
[05:34] <mdz> so only part of the changes then
[05:34] <ogra> and you know the ltsp status 
[05:34] <mdz> ltsp is ThinClientIntegration, not edubuntu
[05:34] <ogra> yup... but a essential part of the server install 
[05:35] <mdz> ok, anything else you would like to add about Edubuntu?
[05:35] <ogra> nope...
[05:35] <ogra> next topic ? 
[05:35] <mdz> it sounds like most of the work still remains
[05:35] <JaneW> ok, are we moving down or doing all ogras goals?
[05:35] <mdz> JaneW: ogra
[05:35] <JaneW> ok
[05:35] <JaneW> edubuntu has been a lot of discussing and trying different things
[05:36] <ogra> audio CD burning... ?
[05:36] <JaneW> yes
[05:36] <ogra> serpentine is in main and used by gnome volume manager, upstream is QA contactfor all bugs, it is tested and implemented
[05:36] <mdz> AudioCDBurning is done, move on
[05:37] <mdz> ContentFiltering
[05:38] <mdz> ogra: ContentFiltering?
[05:38] <ogra> is a part of edubuntu.... squidguard moves to main, squid already is and i'll make a default blacklist package this weekend from the default blacklists squidguard upstream offers
[05:38] <ogra> there is no gui or something to change the blacklists ...
[05:38] <mdz> none of those have been done yet
[05:39] <ogra> squidguard is on the main inclusion list for edubuntu
[05:39] <mdz> and the issues with configuring squidguard to integrate with squid are unresolved
[05:39] <mdz> this is not going to make feature freeze
[05:39] <ogra> err, why ? is moving a package to main a feature ? 
[05:40] <mdz> JaneW: please keep a list of items where we need to take a decision on whether to continue development past feature freeze or defer it to breezy+1
[05:40] <ogra> its only the moiving of squidguard
[05:40] <mdz> ogra`there is a lot more to this feature than putting a package in main, and you nkow that
[05:40] <mdz> this is documented in the spec
[05:40] <mdz> ogra: PowerManagementConfiguration?
[05:40] <ogra> mdz, you mean transparent proxying ? 
[05:41] <ogra> power management is WIP
[05:41] <JaneW> mdz: ok...
[05:41] <JaneW> mdz: is edubuntu included there..?
[05:41] <ogra> gnome-power is packaged in a version we wont use, upstream worked a lot for us to prepare the packages for ubuntu
[05:42] <mdz> JaneW: yes, though we have no choice in the matter (but it should get further attention)
[05:42] <JaneW> ok
[05:42] <ogra> the new packages are prepared but need essential functions from the new dbus we dont have yet
[05:42] <mdz> we took a decision two weeks ago to bring in the new dbus; what happened?
[05:42] <ogra> nothing yet... daniels was busy with X 
[05:43] <mdz> ogra: daniels is not the only one who can update the package; if you are blocked on something for two weeks then we need to consider alternatives
[05:43] <ogra> ok
[05:44] <mdz> JaneW: add PowerManagementConfiguration to the review list
[05:44] <ogra> my fault then... i thought we'd wait for the maintainer....
[05:44] <mdz> ogra: GraphicalConfigTools?
[05:45] <ogra> is done by my SoC student, he wrote a little tool for ndiswrapper to select .inf files and has a scheduler frontend as WIP that he didnt show me yet
[05:45] <JaneW> done
[05:45] <ogra> the ndis tool needs some package corrections... but can be uploaded soon
[05:46] <mdz> there is much more in the spec, and there was more in his SoC proposal
[05:46] <mdz> are those the only pieces he has worked on?
[05:46] <ogra> yup
[05:46] <mdz> password changing?
[05:46] <ogra> is upstream in gnome now
[05:46] <seb128> g-c-c has the "about-me" capplet
[05:46] <ogra> as well as the services editor
[05:46] <mdz> ok
[05:46] <ogra> so there was not much left 
[05:46] <ogra> he tried to make te best out of it :)
[05:47] <mdz> ok, I think that's all for ogra
[05:47] <JaneW> will it be done in time?
[05:47] <mdz> JaneW: it seems clear that it won't make feature freeze
[05:47] <ogra> JaneW, nope...
[05:47] <mdz> mjg59: are you here?
[05:47] <ogra> JaneW, both are good candidates to move from universe to main in breezy+1
[05:47] <JaneW> :(
[05:48] <ogra> but they'll be available in universe at least
[05:48] <mdz> LaptopMission is primarily a testing/bugfixing target, but according to the information I have seen the laptops will be in the hands of testers close to feature freeze
[05:48] <ogra> JaneW, the important stuff we wanted happened upstream anyway
[05:48] <mdz> so we should get a full test cycle out of them
[05:48] <mdz> Kamion: you're up, starting with OEMInstaller
[05:49] <Kamion> OEMInstaller needs a few important bug fixes (locale/keyboard configuration mostly), and a bunch of UI fixes (primarily making it all a single window rather than a bunch of dialogs that bounce around your screen)
[05:49] <Kamion> and we need to get test CDs going for it to test the base-config integration properly
[05:49] <Kamion> but the guts of it are done
[05:50] <mdz> at feature freeze, will we have something we can ask OEMs to test?
[05:50] <Kamion> I think so, yes
[05:50] <mdz> Kamion: what are the remaining blockers for installable CDs now that X should be fixed?
[05:50] <mjg59> mdz: Hello
[05:51] <mdz> we should get a Colony release together as close to feature freeze as we can
[05:51] <Kamion> language-support-en is uninstallable
[05:51] <Kamion> which is bad
[05:51] <Kamion> apart from that, basically anything on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html is an issue
[05:51] <mdz> pitti: ?
[05:52] <Kamion> today's i386 CD is in reasonable shape as far as the first stage goes
[05:52] <pitti> I wasn't aware of that, I'll look into it ASAP
[05:52] <seb128> Kamion, mdz: the GNOME stuff on this list are waiting on a buildd guy to push a retry
[05:53] <Kamion> I would like everyone to keep an eye on http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/breezy_probs.html and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html on a fairly regular basis
[05:53] <mdz> aren't things retried after several hours anyway?
[05:53] <Kamion> my busyness levels are too high at the moment for me to be able to monitor it and prod everyone
[05:54] <mdz> ok
[05:54] <mdz> we need someone to take ownership of getting these issues solved, then
[05:54] <seb128> mdz: dunno, I've uploaded gimp yesterday and there is no sign of a build try ... since the previous version was FTFBSing on aalib name change I guess the buildds are waiting for something
[05:54] <Kamion> language-support-* is in pretty bad shape apparently, in fact
[05:54] <seb128> and other builds need a retry for libgphoto2
[05:54] <mdz> seb128: will you chase down the uninstallables and report back to me?
[05:54] <mdz> you seem to have investigated many of them already
[05:55] <Kamion> breezy.all.i386:graphics/gimp_2.2.8-2ubuntu3: Dep-Wait by buildd+terranova [optional:out-of-date] 
[05:55] <seb128> mdz: yep, I'm tracking them
[05:55] <pitti> Kamion: ok, I'll fix it soon
[05:55] <Kamion> it's dep-wait on aalib1-dev, probably needs a buildd maintainer to clear it
[05:55] <mdz> Kamion,jbailey: BrandingForDerivatives
[05:56] <JaneW> mdz: mvo...
[05:56] <Kamion> d-i build time lsb-release done, many debconf templates in the installer done (and more done upstream that aren't merged yet), more still to do
[05:56] <mdz> JaneW: he's next once Kamion is finished
[05:56] <jbailey> mdz: gconf maintainer has accepted my patch, gnome will come easily after this.
[05:56] <Kamion> cleaning that up is pretty much my top or second-top priority for the next week
[05:56] <JaneW> oh sorry I mis-read
[05:56] <Kamion> I don't think we're going to get all of the branding removed by feature freeze; I'm concentrating on templates in the default install path
[05:57] <Kamion> but, it's not in too bad shape I think
[05:57] <mdz> template changes are fairly non-intrusive, they can continue past feature freeze if necessary
[05:57] <mdz> what about the artwork/defaults/etc. non-installer stuff?
[05:58] <Kamion> I also have to get choose-mirror selecting the default suite using lsb-release
[05:58] <Kamion> that's on the list for early next week
[05:58] <jbailey> I've uploaded the gconf change now to Ubuntu, which lets me do all of gnome.
[05:59] <mdz> the spec includes GDM theme, gnome splash, wallpaper, browser homepage,, browser bookmarks, gnome theme...
[05:59] <mdz> "About Ubuntu"
[05:59] <dholbach> xscreensaver, update-manager?
[05:59] <seb128> dholbach: gnome-screensaver you mean? :p
[05:59] <Kamion> as long as all those are in the *-artwork package, it's fine
[05:59] <ogra> dholbach, gnome-screensaver
[05:59] <mdz> Kamion: they aren't
[05:59] <dholbach> seb128, ogra: ok
[05:59] <Kamion> right, some of them are though
[06:00] <mdz> jbailey: how many of those things can I re-brand easily in breezy today?
[06:00] <Kamion> the spec is not as clearly laid out as it might have been :(
[06:00] <jbailey> mdz: Not many, the gconf change was uploaded this morning.
[06:00] <mdz> JaneW: ->review list, we need to keep moving
[06:00] <seb128> with the gconf that's just a matter to make a branding package writting gconf default values
[06:00] <JaneW> mdz: ok
[06:01] <seb128> s/the gconf/the gconf changes/
[06:01] <ogra> edubuntu can be a good test candidate here
[06:01] <jbailey> mdz: Replacing ubuntu-artwork is doable now, but it doesn't make it easy to change theming and such.  The gconf change allows you to select a theme other than 'Human' and such.
[06:02] <mdz> Kamion: GraphicalInstaller, insofar as it has technical requirements, seems to be completed; is there anything remaining to be done?
[06:02] <Kamion> mdz: GraphicalInstaller evolved into a spec saying "put the base system on the live CD"
[06:02] <Kamion> mdz: I've done the cdimage changes required to do that, but the last time I mentioned it to you you said there wouldn't be space
[06:03] <mdz> JaneW: please move GraphicalInstaller to low priority; it's always been amorphous
[06:03] <JaneW> mdz: ok
[06:03] <mdz> Kamion: MountingHDDFilesystems?
[06:03] <Kamion> I think if UbuntuExpress arrives we can experiment with flipping that switch, otherwise we can ignore it
[06:03] <Kamion> MountingHDDFilesystems install side done; as for the live side we can either do it the quick way or the right way
[06:04] <mdz> JaneW: ->review list, Kamion and I need to talk about this more
[06:04] <Kamion> I have the supporting code for it, but mdz asked me to move some of the code into os-prober
[06:04] <mdz> Kamion: InstallerSimpleResize?
[06:04] <Kamion> which I haven't had time to do; we'll talk about this later I think
[06:05] <Kamion> InstallerSimpleResize done except for corner cases, namely large mostly-empty partitions and weird PC partition table handling (primary/logical partitions)
[06:05] <Kamion> I haven't looked at those since the initial implementation
[06:06] <mdz> so for the common case of one large Windows partition, it works?
[06:06] <mdz> that's 98% of what we need from it
[06:06] <Kamion> right ...
[06:07] <Kamion> needs more testing of course, resizing partitions is always hairy
[06:07] <mdz> yes, that works?
[06:07] <Kamion> last time I tried it, that worked
[06:07] <mdz> Kamion: InstallerStage2Progress: I uploaded the necessary apt changes yesterday, and I think mvo has made further fixes since then
[06:07] <Kamion> yes, that's just waiting for everything to trickle through the archive to my test system so that I can test base-config before upload
[06:08] <mvo> mdz: yes, uploaded apt, aptitude and python-apt this morning. should work fine now
[06:08] <mdz> iirc, it was working for you with local builds containing the patches
[06:08] <mdz> ok
[06:08] <Kamion> it's done bar the shouting
[06:08] <mdz> the best bits of PackageSelection are done, the rest is deferred
[06:08] <mdz> I think that's all for Kamion
[06:09] <Kamion> livecdprompts and oemrescue have been deferred
[06:09] <mdz> we'll be skipping most low priority stuff for this meeting
[06:09] <Kamion> what's the state of apt automark?
[06:09] <mdz> otherwise we'll be here all day and all night
[06:09] <Kamion> I saw some of that in changelogs
[06:09] <mdz> Kamion: mvo has a branch; I don't think it would be wise to land it in breezy
[06:10] <mdz> and mvo is up next
[06:10] <Kamion> ok
[06:10] <dholbach> if you're talking about automatic removal - it works nicely for me...
[06:10] <mvo> Kamion: I have a implementation based on aptitudes mark-n-sweep but it got very little testing so far
[06:10] <JaneW> Kamion: please send deferred bits to me, for recording
[06:10] <Kamion> dholbach: no, different thing
[06:10] <dholbach> Kamion: ok, thanks
[06:10] <mdz> mvo: FindingPackages
[06:10] <mvo> Niran (SoC student) is working on it, improved gnome-app-install nearly ready
[06:10] <mvo> (goal 1 of the spec), depends on python-apt 0.6.13 (uploaded today)
[06:10] <mvo> No launchpad/mozilla integration yet (goal2)
[06:10] <mvo> No mime-type information yet (goal3)
[06:10] <JaneW> are we there yet?
[06:11] <mdz> mvo: how does it look?  is it going to make feature freeze?
[06:11] <mvo> mdz: goal1 yes. it's mostly done, I will upload it ASAP
[06:11] <mdz> is the launchpad portion blocked on launchpad or blocked on the student?
[06:11] <mvo> mdz: on the student 
[06:12] <mdz> ok
[06:12] <mdz> JaneW: ->review list, please
[06:12] <JaneW> ok
[06:12] <mvo> but he said he'll move to launchpad now and send a mail to the launchpad list 
[06:12] <mvo> pt support for translated package descriptions is needed to have a 100% localizable interface. Support for that is in my apt--ddtp tree (and the package descriptions are in rosetta). apt--ddtp needs to be merged into apt and it needs a lot of testing.
[06:12] <mdz> mvo: NetworkWideUpdates seems problematic; there are some tricky packaging/policy issues to solve
[06:12] <mvo> s/pt/apt
[06:12] <mdz> I think it would be best if we defer it
[06:13] <mvo> mdz: I uploaded a 0.1.1 in the archive. it shifts all dirty stuff to the "apu-data" package that the admin has to build himself (with a command)
[06:13] <mvo> my vote would be to move it to universe and see what people think about it
[06:13] <mdz> it would be better to take our time and consider and discuss these issues than to rush something in
[06:13] <mvo> mdz: ok
[06:13] <JaneW> should I move it to deferred?
[06:13] <mdz> mvo: LanguageSelector?
[06:13] <mdz> JaneW: yes
[06:14] <mvo> LanguageSelector:
[06:14] <mvo> In the archive, but needs to be ported to the new langpack structure
[06:14] <mvo> that entered the archive today
[06:14] <mdz> mvo: what is the name of the package?  it doesn't seem to be in desktop yet
[06:14] <mvo> language-selector
[06:14] <ogra> looks good :)
[06:14] <mdz> mvo: please seed it, get it in front of users for testing
[06:14] <mvo> mdz: ok
[06:15] <mdz> you have a good start on PackageDependencyManagement, but I think we need to more thoroughly consider the interactions with frontends, etc.
[06:15] <mdz> e.g., gnome-app-install
[06:16] <dholbach> doesnt that use synaptic as a back-end anyways?
[06:16] <mdz> it used apt-get the last time I looked at it
[06:16] <ogra> dholbach, thats a big overhead
[06:16] <mvo> g-a-i uses synaptic as backend
[06:17] <mdz> JaneW: ->review list, mvo and I need to discuss whether this can land for breezy
[06:17] <mvo> and synaptic supports automatic dependency managment (if apt supports it)
[06:17] <JaneW> ok
[06:17] <mdz> I'll go next
[06:17] <mvo> mdz: I think testing is the critical bit here 
[06:17] <mdz> ThinClientIntegration needs to be brought back into line after some bitrot; unionfs broke it, have a patch, will get it in today
[06:17] <mvo> translated package descriptions are somewhat releated to FindingPackages. without them we'll not have translated long descriptions
[06:17] <mdz> need to upload the server-side configuration infrastructure which I have locall,y to provide a default dhcp config
[06:18] <ogra> yay
[06:18] <mdz> should have everything bu tNAT landed by feature freeze
[06:18] <mdz> and the issues there are starting to come together
[06:18] <mdz> LTSPXorgConfiguration covers the common cases; not all of the overrides work yet but that's mostly bugs
[06:19] <JaneW> mdz: do we need more text in the notes section there?
[06:19] <mdz> UbuntuExpress should have juanje as lead now; I couldn't keep on it
[06:19] <ogra> :(
[06:19] <mdz> JaneW: basically what I said above should go there
[06:19] <JaneW> mdz: must I change ubuntu express to Juanje?
[06:19] <JaneW> mdz: ok
[06:20] <mdz> the only part of LiveCDFeatures likely to land is adding unionfs as an option for COW
[06:20] <mdz> which would be a nice performance boost, and would allow us to take a decision later about which one to use as default
[06:20] <mdz> I hope to push that in over the weekend
[06:20] <mdz> the rest is deferred
[06:21] <mdz> ReleaseCycle is done, but we'll see at the end what the issues are
[06:21] <mdz> that's it for me
[06:21] <mdz> seb128: you're next, starting with LaunchpadIntegration
[06:21] <seb128> jamesh has written launchpad-integration library/tools. The lib is used by apps with GtkUIManager or custom menus and most of those have been packaged. Some apps use libbonobo, sivang is working on that and said he will have this ready for tomorrow. I'll keep patching other apps for the freeze.
[06:21] <mdz> seb128: do you have a count of the number of apps which need patching?
[06:22] <seb128> there is ~30 packages to patch, ~10 have been uploaded, I've some patches on my disk and sivang is working on some others
[06:22] <mdz> from here, the status of LI should be N/M packages done
[06:22] <mdz> since the infrastructure seems to work well
[06:23] <mdz> ok, thanks
[06:23] <mdz> seb128: VideoPlaybackRoadmap, your portion of this was killed by upstream right?
[06:23] <seb128> patches are quite easy to do, the desktop should be patched for feature freeze
[06:23] <seb128> GNOME 2.12 will still use gstreamer0.8 and not 0.9, the packages are update. The A/V issues are due to esdsink but we are stucked with that (cf AudioInfrastructure). Ask daniels for xine
[06:23] <seb128> yep
[06:23] <mdz> JaneW: ->review list, need to talk to daniels
[06:24] <JaneW> ok
[06:24] <mdz> panel enhancements?
[06:24] <seb128> google bounty. Emmanuel has made patches for gnome-menus/"RootRequired" (mask entries to non authorized users) and for the "add to panel" new design. These can/will be pushed before feature freeze.
[06:24] <mdz> MenuEditor?
[06:24] <seb128> gnome-menus has one but too simple so we are switching to smeg. It's packaged and quite used since hoary. I've modified gnome-panel to use it before the gnome-menus one if available and Amaranth has made a wiki page to move the package to main. 
[06:24] <seb128> just pending the main approval
[06:24] <mdz> seb128: you seeded it already?
[06:25] <mdz> if not, please seed it
[06:25] <seb128> nop, should that be done before the approval?
[06:25] <seb128> k
[06:25] <mdz> seb128: yes, I look for the reports when moving the packages to main
[06:25] <mdz> (which I only do if they are seeded)
[06:25] <mdz> ToggleDesktopModes?
[06:25] <seb128> sabayon packaged and working fine ... when it's not borked by Xnest which is the case atm
[06:25] <mdz> is it something we should install by default?
[06:25] <seb128> daniels said he'll fix Xnest with next xorg update
[06:25] <seb128> no
[06:25] <mdz> seb128: the one which went in today, or the next one?
[06:26] <seb128> next one, he forgot for this one
[06:26] <mdz> ogra: sabayon by default for edubuntu perhaps?  let's discuss later
[06:26] <ogra> mdz, yes !
[06:26] <seb128> that's not really an user tool, so not really useful for a desktop installation
[06:26] <ogra> seb128, ltsp classroom install
[06:26] <mdz> seb128: that's all for you, right?
[06:27] <ogra> seb128, its perfect ;)
[06:27] <seb128> FileManagerImprovement: spec quite "light", some of the changes have been made upstream. The set of desktop folders is still on the list of stuff to do.
[06:27] <seb128> too
[06:27] <mdz> seb128: oh, sabdfl gave me some items related to that which we need to discuss
[06:27] <seb128> ok
[06:27] <mdz> JaneW: please make a note for me/seb128 to discuss
[06:28] <mdz> seb128: thanks for the fast updates :-)
[06:28] <mdz> pitti: ready?
[06:28] <JaneW> ok
[06:28] <seb128> np :)
[06:28] <pitti> mdz: yes
[06:28] <pitti> AudioInfrastructure?
[06:28] <pitti> the goals page is quite verbose, but I'll summarize here:
[06:28] <pitti> dmix, esd tweaks, default card selector are done
[06:28] <pitti> according to fabbione, the OSS kernel hack is impossible, but we don't really need that anyway
[06:28] <mdz> pitti: so we must still use esd even though we have dmix?  dmix allows video playback to work much better
[06:28] <pitti> I did quite some hackign on polypaudio, but it's still too buggy, so we'll stay with esd for Breezy
[06:29] <pitti> mdz: the problem is in the driver, dmix doesn't work for too many sound cards
[06:29] <seb128> pitti: you ruin my VideoPlayback with esd :p
[06:29] <mdz> hm, ok
[06:29] <pitti> for those it does work with, direct gstreamer -> alsa output works fine
[06:29] <pitti> so people that dmix works for can just switch
[06:29] <mdz> JaneW: BluetoothSupport is chmj's now
[06:29] <mdz> pitti: langpacks?
[06:29] <pitti> but we shouldn't break aaudio completely for the cards it doesn'T work
[06:30] <JaneW> yes
[06:30] <pitti> the only blocker for audio is the inotify break on powerpc to get the hoplug response, but I'm sure we can settle that in the next week.
[06:30] <pitti> and I need to do some backend cleanup with jdthood, but no major issues 
[06:30] <pitti> above issues will be ready by next week
[06:30] <pitti> langpacks:
[06:30] <pitti> new set of kde/gnome/other split langpacks were uploaded today, kde/gnome are in the NEW queue. Most pacakges now generate a POT file, some of them still need to be fixed, but that's easy (just takes some work). The
[06:31] <mdz> pitti: still no rosetta exports?
[06:31] <pitti> one outstanding thing is the OO.o/Ffox integration; I think we can manage to export PO files from moz/tbird/ffox for rosetta import for feature freeze, but I doubt
[06:31] <pitti> that I can manage to get the rosetta->langpack direction working in one week
[06:31] <pitti> mdz: no, I got some broken breezy and hoary tarballs for testing, but they were all unusable
[06:31] <mdz> pitti: rosetta problems, or langpack problems?
[06:31] <mdz> rosett problems, then
[06:31] <pitti> I sent carlos and daf some information about the bugs
[06:31] <pitti> mdz: yes, rosetta output is flawed
[06:31] <pitti> mdz: so by now I'm using my own scripts
[06:31] <mdz> JaneW: ->I need to liaise with launchpad on this
[06:31] <pitti> (I'm glad that I have them :-/ )
[06:32] <JaneW> ok
[06:32] <mdz> pitti: printingroadmap seems to need to be deferred
[06:32] <pitti> moz/ooo integration is primarily a time issue
[06:32] <mdz> the one piece of that which I think we should attempt is hplip support out of the box
[06:32] <pitti> mdz: yes, there was a guy who wanted to work on it, but he's quiet
[06:32] <mdz> now that it is derooted we should be able to add it to desktop
[06:32] <pitti> I thought it doesn't work for many printers?
[06:32] <mdz> it works great for me
[06:33] <mdz> let's discuss it later
[06:33] <pitti> yes
[06:33] <mdz> automatedproblemreports -> deferred, yes?
[06:33] <pitti> yes, ENOTIME
[06:33] <pitti> sorry, but I ahve to do so many security updates recently that I couln't catch up
[06:33] <mdz> ProactiveSecurityRoadmap is not going to be fully completed, but a lot of good things from it landed already
[06:33] <pitti> there is some toy package, but nothing we can actually use
[06:33] <pitti> derooting stuff, and inetd killing is done the kernel enhancements are bountied to trulux, but that will make it at most to universe for breezy, he is on vac right now
[06:33] <doko> pitti: only scanning doesn't work for me
[06:34] <mdz> ok
[06:34] <pitti>  SSP has finally be accepted upstream, so we should attempt to use it in Breezy+1; it was never attempted to be used in breezy anyway, it was only mentioned in "things we would like in the future"
[06:34] <mdz> jbailey: ready?
[06:34] <mdz> pitti: thanks for the updates
[06:34] <jbailey> mdz: Yup
[06:34] <doko> mdz: about printingroadmap: gs-esp was 8.15 was released last week (we still have 7.07)
[06:34] <jbailey> EarlyUserspace:
[06:34] <jbailey> Building the new DSDT patch for the kernel as we speak.  Once this is done, will ask Fabio to make this the default.  Have only had 2 responses to the call for testers, time for tough love.
[06:35] <doko> pitti: that would require gcc-4.1 to be the standard compiler?
[06:35] <mdz> please don't wait for DSDT; make it the default now
[06:35] <pitti> doko: I guess so, let's talk about it later
[06:35] <jbailey> the DSDT patch right now works for initramfs, but doesn't work for the old initrd cases (segfault at startup)
[06:35] <mdz> that's a corner case
[06:35] <jbailey> Okay.
[06:35] <mdz> get that in today if at all possible
[06:35] <jbailey> 'k
[06:35] <jbailey> FormalTestPlans:
[06:35] <jbailey> Nothing written down yet =(  Will need to just lock myself away from IRC for 3 or 4 hours to do a brain dump and then post a public call for feedback.
[06:36] <mdz> jbailey: please put together a timeline for it; we have time since it isn't freeze-relevant, but we should definitely do something for breezy
[06:36] <ogra> jbailey, i still have the drafts from amu's gnoppix testplans anywhere around
[06:36] <mdz> we should have a plan to do a large formal test cycle with the community based on a test plan
[06:36] <mdz> JaneW: ->review, jbailey and I should discuss
[06:36] <JaneW> ok
[06:36] <jbailey> NFSRoot:
[06:36] <jbailey> Done, just waiting on EarlyUserspace to become default before it's marked as such.
[06:37] <mdz> ok
[06:37] <mdz> calendaringsync?
[06:37] <jbailey> Calendaring Synchronisation:
[06:37] <jbailey> There have been lots of pings on the upstream evolution ical/HTML upload bounty from others with no real response.  Need to verify that multisync works with the latest evolutions.  As it says in the spec, this is mostly a post-breezy item.
[06:37] <mdz> looks deferable
[06:37] <mdz> JaneW: ->deferred
[06:37] <JaneW> ok
[06:37] <mdz> we already covered branding
[06:37] <jbailey> I have toolchainroadmap notes when doko's up
[06:37] <mdz> ok
[06:37] <mdz> dholbach: ready?
[06:37] <dholbach> yes
[06:38] <dholbach> ExpadingUniverse was accelerated a bit by REVU, we're reviewing now at a faster pace and there are a lot of interesting packages out there that will soon make it in
[06:38] <dholbach> we also established review days where we need more helpers - apart from me there are only a few reviewers who think of this as a worthwhile thing
[06:38] <dholbach> apt-get.org review/import hasn't started yet, but as i suggested in a mail, we should start on it in 4 weeks, because packages maintained directly in ubuntu matter to a higher extent
[06:38] <jbailey> And myubuntu is deferred, but I have a pile of notes for it for later. =)
[06:38] <mdz> dholbach: where does it stand with respect to feature freeze?
[06:38] <ogra> mdz, bad....
[06:38] <mdz> jbailey: thanks, let's talk soon
[06:38] <dholbach> as i'm stilly busy with my thesis i can't do as much as i liked
[06:38] <dholbach> i'll be finished in 3-4 weeks :(
[06:38] <mdz> ok
[06:38] <dholbach> but i will do everything i can afterwards
[06:38] <mdz> we can continue to bring new packages into universe well past feature freeze
[06:39] <dholbach> thanks
[06:39] <ogra> mdz, we have still many items on te lists... the different transitions costed more time this time
[06:39] <mdz> but things should be in motion with tools, processes, etc. before feature freeze
[06:39] <mdz> we should have a list of packages to review
[06:39] <mdz> dholbach: is that achievable?
[06:39] <dholbach> are you talking about apt-get.org?
[06:39] <mdz> yes
[06:39] <dholbach> i'll work on it
[06:39] <dholbach> so yes
[06:40] <mdz> ok
[06:40] <dholbach> on graphicalpartitioing tool
[06:40] <dholbach> GraphicalPartitioningTool: daniel elstner implemented all the items on the spec but struggles with mount points and the actually allocated device names after the partitioning 
[06:40] <dholbach> he got ill in between, but he just wrote a mail to jane, mattand the ubuntu-express guys
[06:40] <dholbach> i talked to Kamion and he signaled, he'd be alright with cooking a plan up together with him
[06:40] <mdz> I just sa his status update today
[06:40] <dholbach> alright
[06:40] <mdz> apparently he was sick for three weeks??
[06:40] <dholbach> yes :(
[06:40] <dholbach> but he wants to make it all happen
[06:40] <mdz> well, he has 6 days to make it happen :-)
[06:41] <dholbach> as i said the montpoint issue is just missing
[06:41] <mdz> dholbach: anything else?
[06:41] <Kamion> dholbach's going to get him to mail me, I'm out this evening and Saturday and possibly Sunday but will reply ASAP next week
[06:41] <dholbach> he had a solution in place which didnt cover corner cases, so he'll discuss with kamion
[06:41] <dholbach> mdz: that's it
[06:41] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[06:41] <mdz> doko: ready?
[06:41] <doko> yes
[06:42] <mdz> openofficelocalisation?
[06:42] <doko> OO localization
[06:42] <doko> - Milestone 121 is uploaded, existing Ubuntu xhosa translation is integrated in OOo2. Extraction and Update of language data technically works.
[06:42] <doko> - Duplication of package source (one source to build the binaries from (including en-US), one package to build all other ooo2-l10n packages from) is WIP. Adds the size of the OOo2 source package to the archives, no new binary packages.
[06:42] <doko> - Clarifying the rosetta interface with carlos, implementation plan is currently beeing worked on.
[06:42] <doko> - Putting/getting the localization data in chunks handable by Rosetta is WIP.
[06:42] <doko> - I expect to have the WIP done until Tuesday.
[06:42] <doko> - Testing the Rosetta interfacing needs to be defined/done.
[06:42] <mdz> doko: so which parts will make feature freeze?
[06:43] <doko> The package split, and the import export bits.
[06:43] <mdz> ok
[06:43] <mdz> toolchain?
[06:43] <doko> - Mostly done.
[06:43] <doko> - Biarch support is currently done by jbailey.
[06:43] <doko> - TODO: on i386 build lib64 packages for ncurses, zlib to remove amd64-libs
[06:43] <doko> - TODO: on amd64, reduce ia32-libs (who, Mithrandir?)
[06:43] <doko> - C++ ABI change: Resyncing library packages back from unstable, at least in
[06:43] <doko>   those cases, where Debian did choose another package name, is WIP.
[06:43] <jbailey> ToolchainRoadmap:
[06:43] <jbailey> Solved the biarch blocker this morning.  Doing test builds now.  If it works, will hand to lamfinity for the usually binary upload dance for i386/amd64 and amd64/i386 right after that.
[06:43] <doko> last point is ongoing work
[06:43] <doko> jbailey: nice
[06:44] <mdz> anything to be deferred to breezy+1?
[06:44] <doko> no, Java is another topic
[06:44] <mdz> so all TODOs will be completed by the 11th?
[06:45] <doko> don't know about th ia32-libs. I won't have much time
[06:45] <mdz> Mithrandir will be working on it for oo.o2-amd64
[06:45] <jbailey> ia32-libs is hard because it cotains a pile of stuff like egcs
[06:45] <doko> but that should not be critical
[06:45] <mdz> so you can hand off that piece to him perhaps
[06:46] <mdz> doko: NetworkAuthentication?
[06:46] <doko> yes, everything else should be done, if jbailey confirms biarch
[06:46] <mdz> it says the work will go into breezy, but it is still pending (i.e., no work in progress?)
[06:46] <doko> mdz: waiting on feedback from my second. I currently doubt, that the basic support does make sense on its own. will update, when I get feedback
[06:47] <mdz> ok
[06:47] <mdz> JaneW: ->review, please
[06:47] <JaneW> ok
[06:47] <mdz> doko: oo.o2?
[06:47] <doko> - working m121 packages for i386 and powerpc.
[06:47] <doko> - OpenOffice2: upstream did announce beta 2 for August
[06:47] <doko> - currently very experimental amd64 packages, based on m121, don't build directly from source.
[06:47] <doko> - Compilation of java code to native code works, but not usable (startup errors). Supposed to work on RH4.
[06:48] <mdz> are there any specific featurefreeze items besides amd64 support, which Mithrandir said he will complete?
[06:48] <doko> for OOo2? not that I know of
[06:48] <mdz> ok, so it's completed pending tollef's work
[06:48] <mdz> doko: anything else?
[06:48] <doko> the Java thing should not be considered for FeatureFreeze, it's an optimization
[06:48] <doko> yes, SoC
[06:49] <doko> Zope: latest date for bringing Zope/Plone into main?
[06:49] <doko> Python: I don't have an status update for the last two weeks
[06:49] <mdz> doko: python = pythonmodulepackaging, yes?
[06:50] <doko> mdz: yes, the PyPi bits.
[06:50] <mdz> doko: what are the blockers for zope/plone?  can it be done for featurefreeze?
[06:50] <doko> mdz: packages can be done for FeatureFreeze, we can consider the remaining things as testing and adding more package (to universe only)
[06:51] <mdz> doko: ok, make sure you seed early to allow time for any new main inclusion reports for dependencies, etc.
[06:51] <doko> mdz: ok
[06:51] <mdz> doko: thanks for the updates
[06:51] <mdz> chmj is not here?
[06:51] <ogra> doesnt look like
[06:51] <mdz> JaneW: do you know his situation?
[06:51] <JaneW> he sent an e-mail the other day
[06:51] <JaneW> checking...
[06:52] <JaneW> smae one he sent you mdz
[06:52] <JaneW> same
[06:53] <mdz> yes, there were some deliverables on that which haven't happened yet
[06:53] <mdz> JaneW: ->review, we need to find some time to talk "live"
[06:53] <JaneW> ok
[06:54] <mdz> infinity is not here
[06:54] <mdz> JaneW: did you hear anything from him?
[06:54] <mdz> Riddell: ready?
[06:54] <JaneW> no haven;t heard from him for a while
[06:55] <Riddell> hi
[06:55] <mdz> JaneW: sounds like we need to schedule a second meeting for .au
[06:55] <Riddell> KDE 3.4.2 mostly in but kdebase and dependencies awaiting xmkmf
[06:55] <Riddell> Working with upstream on guidance configuration tools, libpythonise issues mean not quite working
[06:55] <Kamion> it's sucky-time in Australia, and they didn't find out that they needed to cancel things they were doing on Friday night until Friday morning
[06:55] <JaneW> mdz: yes
[06:56] <jsgotangco> sure its 3am heh
[06:56] <Riddell> KubuntuPackageManger, Ept Package manager underway, working with Peter Rockai 
[06:56] <mdz> JaneW: can you arrange it?  I'm flexible
[06:56] <Riddell> first screenshot from a few hours ago http://beleriand.mornfall.net/~mornfall/ept-testing-ui-2.png
[06:56] <JaneW> ok
[06:56] <Riddell> Simplified Konqueror and Control Centre in (konqueror bug waiting on kdebase updates)
[06:57] <mdz> Riddell: kiosk mode?
[06:57] <Riddell> Need to update kde-style-lipstik to fix toolbar issue, need to get approval for upload
[06:57] <mdz> Riddell: is there any clarity on the KDE release schedule wrt breezy?
[06:57] <Riddell> mdz: kiosktool is in but needs fixes for not having a root password
[06:58] <Riddell> mdz: KDE 3.4.3 expected to come out but no schedule yet.  3.5 too late for breezy
[06:58] <mdz> ok
[06:58] <Riddell> Documentation under way but slowly due to no installable CDs
[06:58] <mdz> Riddell: are you tracking installation issues for the kubuntu CDs?
[06:58] <Riddell> mostly it's X
[06:59] <mdz> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/current/report.html
[06:59] <mdz> looks like mostly overlap with ubuntu
[06:59] <pitti> Hi Kronoss 
[06:59] <Riddell> and openoffice as well last I tried (late last week)
[06:59] <Kronoss> hi
[06:59] <mdz> Riddell: please work with seb128 to review the installability issues
[06:59] <Riddell> ok
[07:00] <mdz> installable CDs are a must for feature freeze
[07:00] <mdz> Riddell: anything else?
[07:00] <Riddell> Language packs, pitti has uploaded
[07:00] <Riddell> various packages due to be main approved
[07:00] <mdz> Riddell: are you keeping the kubuntu seeds in sync with the ubuntu seeds where they overlap?  I had been merging them from time to time ,but haven't done it in a while and it makes more sense for you to handle it
[07:00] <doko> Riddell: openoffice, not openoffice2?
[07:00] <mdz> I just baz merge it, and then read through the changes and edit as appropriate
[07:01] <Riddell> doko: openoffice2
[07:01] <Riddell> mdz: I have done syncing but havn't look at it in a while, I'll mind and do that
[07:01] <mdz> ok
[07:01] <mdz> have we missed anyone?
[07:01] <ogra> mono ? 
[07:02] <pitti> Kronoss maybe?
[07:02] <JaneW> mjg59 was here earlier...
[07:02] <Kronoss> what?
[07:02] <JaneW> Mithrandir: ?
[07:02] <Kamion> mdz: I've generally been merging changes from Ubuntu to Kubuntu and Edubuntu where they're critical for CDs to work (i.e. kernel ABI changes, pretty much)
[07:02] <pitti> Kronoss: can you please give us a short status report about your bounty?
[07:03] <Kamion> that happens sufficiently often that it's provided reasonable coverage
[07:03] <pitti> Kronoss: will anything be ready by the feature freeze next thursday?
[07:03] <Kronoss> i have done the fstab interface and some of the libs, ihave to connecto this
[07:03] <mdz> ogra: you should be merging edubuntu regularly as well
[07:03] <mdz> the more often it is done, the easier the merges (especially when they block CD builds)
[07:03] <ogra> mdz, i did some hours ago...
[07:03] <Kronoss> i think no, becouse i have to see teh udev
[07:04] <pitti> Kronoss: udev?
[07:04] <mdz> JaneW: ->StorageDeviceManager deferred to post-Breezy
[07:04] <Kronoss> udev rules configuration
[07:04] <JaneW> ok
[07:04] <pitti> ah
[07:04] <pitti> for Paolo (BlueTooth bounty) that's likely the same
[07:04] <Kronoss> the fstab manager i think that can be ccompleted for the next week
[07:04] <pitti> he did some work, but didn't show me/chmj any code yet
[07:05] <pitti> JaneW: so that bounty will be post-Breezy as well
[07:05] <mdz> ok
[07:06] <mdz> are there any other updates that anyone present would like to provide?
[07:06] <mdz> especially anything relevant to next week's feature freeze
[07:06] <Kronoss> Paolo is also working with udev?
[07:06] <JaneW> ok
[07:06] <pitti> Kronoss: well, not directly I guess, more with hal
[07:07] <Kronoss> ok
[07:07] <mdz> sounds like we can wrap up
[07:07] <mdz> thanks to everyone for making it on short notice
[07:07] <ogra> Kamion, did vedran come back to you with the ubuntu-lite seeds ?
[07:07] <fabbione> thanks to you mdz :)
[07:07] <_mvo_> thanks mdz 
[07:07] <mdz> the feature selection process for breezy has been chaotic, but things are starting to come together
[07:07] <pitti> thanks guys, mdz
[07:07] <dholbach> thanks mdz and JaneW 
[07:08] <fabbione> may i add just one note?
[07:08] <ogra> thanls mdz
[07:08] <mdz> we're learning a lot from this cycle about how we can organize our development, and we should be able to nail things down much earlier for breezy+1
[07:08] <mdz> as well as refine the specification process for the Oct/Nov summit
[07:08] <pitti> ack, we should change a few things at the next conf
[07:08] <Kronoss> is finished the feature selection proccess?
[07:08] <mdz> Kronoss: we selected features in April
[07:08] <ogra> mdz, the big transitions this time were very special, next time should be a lot smoother
[07:08] <fabbione> mdz: mind if i add a footnote?
[07:08] <mdz> fabbione: go ahead
[07:09] <jbailey> ogra++
[07:09] <mdz> Kronoss: since then we have been refining what we can implement on schedule
[07:09] <JaneW> fabbione: I thought you were cementing something...
[07:09] <Kronoss> ah ok
[07:09] <fabbione> I forgot to mention that our kernel had the super review of a very special person.. and i would like to thanks JaneW for her partecipation in the kernel team as Release Name Manager :)
[07:09] <JaneW> lol
[07:09] <ogra> yay
[07:09] <pitti> thanks, Jane!!!
[07:09] <Kronoss> i have to get a bus
[07:09] <fabbione> :)
[07:09] <ogra> a lot of nuts
[07:09] <mdz> fabbione: super review?
[07:10] <Kronoss> see you later
[07:10] <fabbione> mdz: meh.. supervision ;)
[07:10] <Kamion> ogra: yes, but I have not had time to review in great detail; please don't wait for me
[07:10] <ogra> mdz, she added the names for our nuts kernel
[07:10] <mdz> ah
[07:10] <JaneW> it was nothing *really*
[07:10] <JaneW> fun though
[07:10] <mdz> ok, meeting adjourned
[07:10] <JaneW> YAY
[07:10] <mdz> enjoy the weekend, everyone
[07:10] <ogra> you too
[07:10] <dholbach> mdz: you too
[07:10] <pitti> JaneW: with kernels it's like with ships: no proper name - no luck :-)
[07:11] <pitti> nice weekend everybody!
[07:11] <JaneW> mdz thanks, I'll send you a spreadsheet shortly
[07:11] <jsgotangco> well good night all its 1am
[07:11] <jsgotangco> :)
[07:11] <highvoltage> pitti: you too
[07:11] <seb128> you too pitti :)
[07:11] <JaneW> bye jsgotangco 
[07:11] <JaneW> I am away for a long w/e, please update your goals if anything changes
[07:11] <fabbione> JaneW: btw.. it doesn't take ages to make cement ;)
[07:11] <JaneW> mdz will be very happy ;)
[07:11] <fabbione> JaneW: have fun in the nature :)
[07:11] <highvoltage> JaneW: enjoy your weekend too then.
[07:12] <dholbach> bye everybody - have a good time
[07:12] <ogra> JaneW, mind the wild animals ;) we need you here
[07:12] <JaneW> thanks :))
[07:12] <fabbione> ogra: she survived me!
[07:12] <JaneW> ogra: lol, I am used to them
[07:12] <fabbione> wild animals will run away ;)
[07:12] <seb128> dholbach: later daniel :))
[07:12] <ogra> heh
[07:12] <highvoltage> JaneW: I resent that!
[07:12] <JaneW> highvoltage: touche
[07:13] <jsgotangco> JaneW: one word: whip
[07:13] <dholbach> bye seb :)
[07:13] <JaneW> heh
[07:15] <Seveas> hmm
[07:15] <Seveas> topic too short
[07:15] <Seveas> JaneW, you meesed up the MOTU part :)
[07:16] <JaneW> no I didn;t I made space for it again...
[07:16] <JaneW> I deleted my meeting.
[07:17] <Seveas> It's still gone. I think I'll remove all agendas and create a wikipage with links to all agendas
[07:19] <jbailey> I keep meaning to put together a bot that will watch an ical file and announce in each channel the start of official meetings.
[07:20] <Seveas> :)
[07:20] <Seveas> maybe it's easy to add to ubotu/ubuntulog/locobot
[07:20] <jbailey> I think supybot might also have hooks for something like that.
[07:21] <jbailey> s/also/already/
[07:21] <JaneW> Seveas, is it not possible to have shorter names for the agenda pages?
[07:22] <JaneW> jbailey: that would be cool
[07:24] <Seveas> JaneW, Good URLs Don't Change. If we change the pagenames, people get confused :)
[07:25] <ogra> Seveas, a centralized wikipage that links to the differentz agendas ;)
[07:25] <ogra> -z
[07:26] <Seveas> ogra, almost finished already
[07:26] <ogra> heh
[07:27] <JaneW> ok
[07:28] <Seveas> There :)
[07:29] <ogra> yeah :)
[07:33] <JaneW> much better :)
[07:46] <Seveas> Might remove the calendar as well
[07:46] <Seveas> all datetimes are in the topic
[07:46] <ogra> link it from the agenda page
[07:49] <Seveas> it's there already
[07:50] <ogra> then bin it here
[09:56] <Mez> anyone here?
[09:57] <crimsun> (all dead)
[09:57] <Mez> gonna be a fun meeting
[09:59] <Mez> Fri Aug  5 20:00:02 UTC 2005
[09:59] <Mez> Can everyone state their name for the record
[10:00] <JanC> I'm Jan Claeys  :)
[10:01] <Mez> Item 1 on the agenda:  Report from JanClaeys regarding Support Guide
[10:01] <Mez> so, JanC, lets hear your report ;) if you have it
[10:01] <JanC> that was about an irc guide for new users
[10:01] <JanC> http://users.telenet.be/janc/new_user_irc_guide.txt
[10:01] <JanC> this is what I have
[10:02] <Mez> anything else?
[10:02] <JanC> that's what I talked about previous meeting ?
[10:03] <Mez> yes, and you was asked to deliver a report about your research into it and what your plans were to implement it in this meeting
[10:03] <Mez> I assume you dont have that
[10:04] <JanC> what do you mean by "research" & "implement" ?
[10:04] <Mez> research   Audio pronunciation of "research" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (r-srch, rsrch)
[10:04] <Mez> n.
[10:04] <Mez>    1. Scholarly or scientific investigation or inquiry. See Synonyms at inquiry.
[10:04] <Mez>    2. Close, careful study.
[10:04] <Mez> tr.v. implemented, implementing, implements (-mnt)
[10:04] <Mez>    1. To put into practical effect; carry out: implement the new procedures.
[10:04] <Mez>    2. To supply with implements.
[10:04] <dholbach> i'm just a spectator - but is this about goals to accomplish to a specific date?
[10:05] <Mez> dholbach, no, I asked JanC to look into the idea more and think about how they'd like to implement it within NUN, as it was a foundation of an idea last meeting
[10:06] <dholbach> i see
[10:06] <Mez> so, JanC any progress?
[10:08] <Mez> well, if you have poke me, for now, I'll carry on with the rest of the agenda
[10:08] <JanC> Mez : sorry, but I don't understand what you want
[10:08] <Mez> JanC, we'll delay till next meeting then
[10:08] <Mez> and i'll explain some other time
[10:08] <Mez> next item is " Review of Guidelines Policy"
[10:09] <JanC> that's about: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUsersNetworkGuidelines ?
[10:09] <Mez> Basically, the concept of signing the guidelines seems to have caused more hassle than anything, so I suggest a modification of them so that by being part of the NUN, you agree to abide by the guidelines, 
[10:10] <Mez> instead of having to sign them, by applying, you agree to abide by them
[10:10] <Mez> It makes life easier really.
[10:10] <Mez> Any thoughts on that
[10:11] <JanC> I think that's no problem...
[10:11] <Mez> fair enough, then if noone's got a problem with that, it's the end of the meeting
[10:11] <Mez> night everyone
[10:11] <Mez> and thanks for turning up
[10:11] <JanC> btw: I have a remark about point 5 of those guidelines
[10:12] <JanC> IMHO point 5 should be more generic, more something like: "5. NEVER advise to use repositories that contain packages compiled for debian (e.g. marrillat), there are significant differences between ubuntu and debian, which will often result in problems.  This also causes problems for the developers when they investigate bug reports."
[10:12] <Mez> I'll email out the time for the next meeting when we work out when we need a meeting
[10:12] <Mez> JanC - make up an agenda for the next meerting and add it to that, I dont want to pass any changes to the guidelines without other people here
[10:13] <JanC> okay, and let me know what exactly you want from me  :-)
[10:13] <dholbach> dont you want to discuss it at least together?
[10:20] <JanC> added: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NUNAgenda