[12:11] <_jd> how do I get my 3d acceleration working on my apple powerbook G4?
[12:12] <_jd> it has an ATI Radeon Mobility 9600 M10
[12:13] <_admin> Hi
[12:19] <hater2win> how do i install firefox extensions?
[12:19] <hater2win> i cant figure it out
[12:27] <twidget> Whoa! That was some nap!
[12:28] <twidget> ...and talk about your dreaming!
[12:33] <EasterSunshine> tell us all about it!
[12:34] <twidget> Well, I've been asleep for about 6 hours, much too long for your average nap...
[12:35] <twidget> and my dreams were vivid but really strange
[12:36] <twidget> but my guess is that you were being sarcastic when you asked :)
[12:40] <EasterSunshine> no, i wasn't
[12:40] <EasterSunshine> dreams are just really interesting to me
[12:40] <EasterSunshine> doesn't matter who's
[12:41] <twidget> Cool. Maybe I'm getting too used to people in IRC channels being snotty to me
[12:42] <EasterSunshine> snotty ppl don't belong in channels for helpful altruistic ppl like #kubuntu
[12:43] <twidget> All I really remember is that myself and a few others were in a church service watching a documentary on the porno industry
[12:44] <twidget> and something about my waking up to late to walk to my old high school
[12:44] <twidget> makes no sense, really
[12:44] <EasterSunshine> yes dreams tend to be really disjoint and random
[12:47] <nikkia> my laptop's wlan card is on the other side of a router (ipv4 only) from my IPv6 router advertisement daemon, when i plug the card in, i get no IPv6 address allocated, i had come to the conclusion that this was because the router in between the networks was (probably correctly) not routing the RA's between the two effective LANs
[12:47] <twidget> EasterSunshine: you wanna see snotty sometime? Go into ##php and ask a beginner's question!
[12:47] <nikkia> but after about 5-6 hours of being up, the wlan card mysteriously gains a IPv6 address, and routing information
[12:47] <nikkia> its a real puzzle
[12:48] <EasterSunshine> twidget: let me try right now
[12:48] <nikkia> EasterSunshine: may i suggest 'why do i need the <?php .... ?> tags :)
[12:49] <twidget> lol
[12:49] <EasterSunshine> hmm...i'll get banned cause it says rtfm everywhere, i was gonna ask how to add strings together or something
[12:49] <twidget> see what I mean?
[12:49] <nikkia> twidget: its a reasonably good question, when referring to .php files, tbh
[12:51] <twidget> I wonder if I should keep all of my unneccessary cables and cards, such as SATA cables and external USB connectors. My board handles everything I need.
[12:52] <nikkia> never know when they'll come in handy
[12:52] <twidget> I suppose
[12:52] <nikkia> altho sata cables are probably like pata cables - you get them with the motherboard, then again with the HD :)
[12:53] <nikkia> or, worse, you have sata cables, buy a sata drive, then discover it needs a sata power connector :/
[12:59] <nikkia> twidget: to be honest, i always thought there was something wrong with the SATA specification... it seems a bit 'odd' to have a 7 pin data connection, then demand an 11-pin power connection
[01:00] <twidget> yeah
[01:01] <nikkia> i mean, i understand the theory, 3 connections for each voltage rail, just in case the drive needs *that* much power, but still, i think we're in trouble if a drive needs 3.3v at 20A
[01:02] <twidget> Anyone want a free Turtle Beach Riviera sound card?
[01:03] <nikkia> twidget: isn't that one of those aurel3d chipset cards that isn't supported by anything ? :)
[01:03] <twidget> I have an Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe MB, then I bought a sound card to boot!
[01:03] <nikkia> ah, guess not if its new
[01:04] <nikkia> i bought a TB card once, worst mistake evah!
[01:04] <EasterSunshine> giving out free sound cards? how about hdds ;)
[01:04] <twidget> So chunk it?
[01:04] <nikkia> it WAS one of the aurel3d (or however you spell it) cards....
[01:04] <nikkia> it said 'NT5 compatible' on the box, it wasn't
[01:04] <nikkia> by the time 2k was released, they'd gone bankrupt and there weren't any drivers for anything post-98
[01:05] <nikkia> (and it wasn't supported in linux either, for what its worth)
[01:05] <twidget> There's my Zip 250 drive!
[01:05] <nikkia> click click click click BOOM :P
[01:06] <nikkia> actually, you have to respect iomega, noone else has made hardware viruses :)
[01:10] <twidget> So chunk it?
[01:11] <twidget> the sound card, I mean?
[01:11] <twidget> It was only about $30
[01:11] <nikkia> twidget, *shrug*
[01:12] <nikkia> twidget, i thought it was another card, that had an old chipset, if you bought it recently (ie, after 1999) it wouldn't be the card i was thinking of
[01:13] <twidget> Maybe a garage sale or something...
[01:17] <EasterSunshine> whoa computer parts at a garage sale?
[01:17] <EasterSunshine> thats just crazy
[01:19] <twidget> ebay... garage sale... it's all the same thing
[01:20] <twidget> actually, I have so much stuff to sell on ebay, it's not even funny. I just don't want to go to the trouble.
[01:20] <twidget> Anyone want to buy a TiVo PVT100? ;)
[01:21] <twidget> I suppose it'll be Domino's again tonight
[01:27] <hater2win> whats a good linux prog for unrar-ing?
[01:27] <crimsun> unrar-nonfree
[01:27] <hater2win> can i apt-get that?
[01:27] <crimsun> it's in multiverse.
[01:28] <hater2win> thanks
[01:30] <nocloud> hey, do i need any spyware/virus protection for kubuntu?
[01:30] <crimsun> no
[01:30] <nocloud> or is stuff like that not an issue with linux?
[01:30] <nocloud> crimsun: could you explain why?
[01:31] <crimsun> nocloud: it's generally not an issue with Linux.
[01:43] <twidget> crimsun: you know... they used to say that about Mac OS
[01:44] <crimsun> twidget: they've said it with just about every OS.
[01:45] <twidget> So, I suppose if some virus/spyware/worm/trojan writer got a wild hair up his or her ass, we could see the need for such packages.
[02:00] <twidget> GIMP or CinePaint?
[02:00] <c0rrupt_> if there is any developers in here : thanks for your awesome distro
[02:17] <twidget> Any idea why, in xmms, it appears to be playing a CD, but I hear no sound?
[02:24] <bbailey_> Could it be trying to play it in analog mode?
[02:29] <twidget> bbailey_: may I change that?
[02:29] <twidget> a setting somewhere?
[02:30] <twidget> ah!
[02:30] <twidget> input plugin = digital extraction
[02:30] <twidget> that got it
[02:31] <twidget> thanks for prompting the search
[02:36] <flugh> the live dvd is really sweet. won't be long before I'm replacing the office desktop with kubuntu. just gotta get internet access :(
[02:43] <jharrison> what repositories to use for mplayer?
[02:49] <twidget> ERROR: Your architecture, \'x86_64\', is not supported by the Macromedia Flash Player installer.
[02:50] <twidget> ARRGH!
[02:50] <twidget> Maybe we should organize a protest outside Macromedia's offices
[02:50] <jharrison> dude im sorry but I was going to give my father kubuntu but its just not worth it I dont think
[02:51] <jharrison> debian is the way to go
[02:51] <jharrison> I should have never considered anything else
[02:51] <crimsun> then give him Debian
[02:51] <jharrison> yes I think so
[02:51] <crimsun> Ubuntu isn't the right distro for everyone
[02:51] <twidget> go for it, dude
[02:51] <jharrison> well I thought it would be good but I am not sure now
[02:52] <twidget> Some people like chocolate, some people prefer vanilla. People are different
[02:52] <jharrison> the live cds worked great but the actual install has problems
[02:52] <jharrison> what do you guys do if you want mplayer/kplayer?
[02:52] <twidget> I'm liking xmms
[02:52] <jharrison> you compile them all from source?
[02:53] <twidget> I didn't
[02:53] <jharrison> well there must be some repositories for them they
[02:53] <jharrison> but I fail to find them on the ubuntu/kubuntu site
[02:53] <jharrison> im reading an mplayer howto which tells me what I know already but does not give me a repo
[02:57] <hater2win> how do i uninstall shit?
[02:57] <hater2win> err
[02:57] <hater2win> STUFF
[02:57] <hater2win> i meant STUFF
[02:58] <flugh> got a HOWTO on importing my thunderbird mail to kmail?
[02:58] <flugh> hater2win: apt-get remove <package>
[02:58] <hater2win> what if i self installed something
[02:58] <hater2win> like if i downloaded firefox and installed it to my /opt/firefox dir
[02:59] <flugh> hater2win: or dpkg --purge <package>
[02:59] <flugh> err, rm -rf <offending directory>
[02:59] <flugh> you can do that with firefox. that's where  i had it installed, and rm'd it recently
[02:59] <hater2win> doesnt that just remove te dir
[03:00] <flugh> hater2win: well, firefox is nice in that it doesn't leave much lying around. and it's not like there's a windows registry to clean up on removal
[03:01] <hater2win> true
[03:01] <hater2win> so i can just delete the profiles folder
[03:01] <hater2win> and firefox folder
[03:01] <hater2win> and itll be ok?
[03:08] <n17r0> oi
[03:08] <n17r0> is it normal to have this in mtab:
[03:08] <n17r0> this: /dev /.dev unknown rw,bind 0 0
[03:08] <n17r0> ??
[03:09] <web250> in mtab?
[03:09] <n17r0> yep
[03:09] <web250> hmmm...
[03:09] <web250> lemme see
[03:09] <n17r0> kk :P
[03:09] <n17r0> ty
[03:09] <web250> i have it too, just checked...what is mtab btw? i know what fstab is, looks similar
[03:10] <n17r0> mtab shows u which things are mounted
[03:10] <web250> ahh cool...
[03:10] <n17r0> ty for checking :D
[03:11] <web250> no prob
[03:11] <n17r0> do u also have sometimes missing shortcuts in the K-menu ?
[03:12] <web250> like what?
[03:12] <n17r0> my kcontrol shortcut dissapeared :/
[03:12] <web250> did u just install kde 3.4.2?
[03:12] <n17r0> yep
[03:12] <web250> kcontrol disappears with 3.4.2...its easily replaced though
[03:13] <n17r0> ah I see, thats weird also, why do they do such things
[03:13] <web250> click start, right click on the left hand kubuntu bar....edit it, new item, etc... command: kcontrol
[03:13] <n17r0> yeah I added already a new one 
[03:13] <n17r0> ty anyway
[03:14] <web250> np
[03:15] <web250> is procmeter3 the best option for displaying stats on desktop....or something else?
[03:16] <n17r0> u need something like Mother board monitor ?
[03:16] <web250> exactly...that will display my stats on the desktop...more like coolmon for windows i guess
[03:17] <n17r0> yeah try "ksensors" 
[03:17] <web250> k...anything is easier than using the 'top' command and viewing it in a text console
[03:17] <n17r0> its in universe i think, i installed it with kynaptic
[03:18] <web250> ya i use synaptic...all the repos too...hated kynapti
[03:18] <n17r0> yeah but top is more like a proccess manager
[03:18] <n17r0> yeah i have also synaptic, and that new one from KDE Kpackage
[03:19] <n17r0> KSysGuard is the GUI for "top"
[03:20] <web250> ahhh very good
[03:26] <hater2win> whats a good IRC client for kde?
[03:27] <_chris> Konversation
[03:27] <_chris> the kubuntu default
[03:28] <hater2win> any others?
[03:28] <n17r0> lots of them
[03:28] <web250> xchat
[03:28] <n17r0> try Xchat
[03:28] <n17r0> :P
[03:29] <web250> im using xchat right now 
[03:29] <hater2win> will do
[03:30] <n17r0> im using KSirc right now
[03:32] <hater2win> lol
[03:33] <Tribune> hi. i try to get limewire software. try sudo apt-get install limewire but fail
[03:34] <web250> h/o....if synaptic ever loads ill help u out )
[03:35] <web250> ok...limewire doesnt come up in synaptic for me...might not be on the mirrors, it might be on a different repo
[03:35] <Tribune> ok
[03:35] <web250> and ive got all my repos selected
[03:36] <web250> Tribune: http://ubuntuguide.org/#limewire
[03:38] <web250> just be careful, those directions are for the gnome panel...so you might have to manually add it to the kde panel
[03:40] <Tribune> ohhh
[03:42] <twidget> Argh! #mysql is just as bad as ##php
[03:42] <_chris> which is only slightly less annoying than #linux
[03:45] <twidget> I mean, seriously, if you're not willing to help a user, newbie or otherwise, just don't type anything! How simple is that?!
[03:46] <twidget> Noooo, you've got to make some snide comment to show how much more smart you are, and that you're more willing to withhold any assistance than give any.
[03:48] <flugh> twidget: i'd tell you how to fix that, but i'm too smart, and it wouldn't make any sense to you
[03:49] <flugh> ;)
[03:54] <hater2win> how do you move files without it telling you you dont have permission?
[03:54] <flugh> mv -f
[03:54] <flugh> or,have write permissions on the dir you are mv'ing to
[03:55] <hater2win> how to do that?
[03:56] <hater2win> nvm
[03:56] <hater2win> found it
[04:08] <Tribune> ubuntu hv website such as http://ubuntuguid.org how bout kubuntu?
[04:12] <hater2win> any better audio players than amarok?
[04:13] <twidget> flugh: haha, sorry, caught up in a conversation about database normalization
[04:13] <twidget> hater2win: I'm liking xmms
[04:14] <twidget> flugh: that's what started all this, I needed help normalizing a db
[04:14] <twidget> I have a degree in IS, but that was 7+ years ago, and I've slept since then
[04:15] <pax> hater2win: beep-media-player
[04:16] <hater2win> is beep or xmms better?
[04:22] <EasterSunshine> hater2win: depends on your taste. try out both and decide for yourself
[04:25] <rene_> hellko
[04:25] <rene_> How do I install KDE on my desktop
[04:26] <rene_> Hello
[04:30] <seth_k> are you already running Ubuntu?
[04:41] <rene_> yes, I have ubuntu 5.04
[04:42] <rene_> seth_k, I have ubuntu 5.04
[04:42] <seth_k> rene_, sudo aptitude install kubuntu-desktop
[04:43] <rene_> ok
[04:46] <hater2win> what do i do with .deb fileS?
[04:47] <hater2win> i have checkinstall
[04:47] <hater2win> if that matters
[04:47] <bbailey_> You can manipulate .debs directly with dpkg: e.g., dpkg -i file.deb (to install)
[04:49] <rene_> Is it always that hard to install software on linux
[04:49] <hater2win> after i do that is there any clean up necesary?
[04:49] <hater2win> dpkg cleanup?
[04:49] <rene_> how Do i make my dvd player to work .. Play DvDs?
[04:50] <bbailey_> dpkg doesn't cache the .deb or anything, so no - once you install (or whatever), you're done, you can remove the .deb if you like
[04:53] <bjv> searching doesnt turn up anything, is there a package name for MS binary codecs?
[04:53] <bjv> i know they are evil, but still.
[04:54] <bbailey> w32codecs - in hoary-extras on backports
[04:55] <twidget> goodnight, all
[05:00] <bjv> man my sources is messy, i could probably combine some of these entries.
[05:06] <_paul> whats up guys?
[05:13] <hater2win> ok
[05:13] <hater2win> i have a theme in a .deb file
[05:13] <Kaiser_sleep1> hi hater2win
[05:13] <hater2win> what do i need to do to install it
[05:13] <hater2win> ooo, sup kaiser
[05:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi mate :)
[05:13] <hater2win> how was your day?
[05:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> just goet up an hour ago :)
[05:14] <hater2win> oh, lol, forgot about that time diff
[05:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> what's happening with your computer?
[05:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[05:14] <hater2win> eh, just trying to figure things out
[05:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> hater2win: it's 12:44 lunchtime here, so i slept in a bit ;)
[05:14] <hater2win> im tired of this GIANT looking desktop i have
[05:14] <hater2win> lol, a bit?
[05:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeh a bit
[05:15] <Kamping_Kaiser> giant looking?
[05:15] <hater2win> well, when i had windows on this comp
[05:16] <hater2win> i had a 1600x1200 resolution
[05:16] <hater2win> all the bars were nice and thing
[05:16] <hater2win> thin*
[05:16] <hater2win> everything looked slick
[05:16] <hater2win> and this 1280x1024 just looks tacky to me
[05:16] <hater2win> lol
[05:16] <hater2win> especially with the giant bars
[05:16] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[05:16] <hater2win> *shrug*
[05:16] <hater2win> wanted something a little smaller
[05:16] <Kamping_Kaiser> xorg .conf
[05:16] <Kamping_Kaiser> :)
[05:16] <hater2win> where is that at?
[05:16] <Kamping_Kaiser>  /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[05:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> close to where XFree86 was
[05:18] <hater2win> ty much
[05:18] <hater2win> ok so in addition to this
[05:18] <hater2win> if i have a theme downloaded in a .deb file
[05:18] <hater2win> what do i do?
[05:19] <hater2win> i tried
[05:19] <hater2win> dpkg -i file.deb
[05:19] <hater2win> but nothing happened
[05:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> not sure h2w, that's how you install a deb, so i don't know
[05:20] <Kamping_Kaiser> i havent used themes
[05:20] <hater2win> hmm ok
[05:20] <hater2win> so if i wanted to use a 1600x1200 res
[05:21] <hater2win> then would i edit xorg.conf
[05:21] <hater2win> and add
[05:21] <hater2win> 1600x1200
[05:21] <hater2win> to the bottom
[05:21] <hater2win> on the depth of my monitor?
[05:21] <jpowers> hater2win: you probably need to change the settings in kcontrol
[05:21] <jpowers> hater2win: installing it via deb only makes it available, I believe
[05:22] <hater2win> jpowers: i see, well i looked in the themes manager but it isnt there
[05:22] <jpowers> what was it?
[05:22] <jpowers> you might need to look not in themes, but in widgets or window decorations
[05:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> add it here hater2win                Modes           "1280x1024" "1024x768" "800x600"
[05:23] <jpowers> generally what people call themes are one of those things.
[05:23] <hater2win> Kamping_Kaiser: on the depth that my monitor has default right?
[05:23] <hater2win> jpowers: thanks let me try that real quick
[05:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes, add it to 16 bit and 24 bit, as your going to use them
[05:32] <hater2win> hmm
[05:32] <hater2win> so i edited xconf
[05:32] <hater2win> but 1600x1200 isnt selecteable in desktop configuration
[05:32] <hater2win> am i missing something?
[05:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> hater2win: you have to restart X
[05:35] <hater2win> oh...
[05:35] <hater2win> can i do that from term like dcop kicker kicker restart?
[05:35] <hater2win> except for x?
[05:35] <c0rrupt_> hi im trying to use teamspeak
[05:35] <c0rrupt_> but when i try to run it
[05:35] <c0rrupt_> nothing happens
[05:35] <c0rrupt_> any help?
[05:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> hater2win: log out and back in again
[05:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> should do it
[05:37] <hater2win> oh ok
[05:37] <hater2win> brb then
[05:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> c0rrupt_: have you run it from a terminal?
[05:38] <c0rrupt_> temrinal and kicker
[05:38] <c0rrupt_> terminal*
[05:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> so you ran setup.sh?
[05:38] <c0rrupt_> mhm
[05:39] <Kamping_Kaiser> then i went cd ~/Teamspeak (where i put it) and ./TeamSpeak and it ran
[05:40] <c0rrupt_> me too.. except it didnt run
[05:40] <c0rrupt_> nothing happens
[05:40] <c0rrupt_> woah
[05:40] <c0rrupt_> loaded..
[05:40] <c0rrupt_> after like
[05:40] <c0rrupt_> 5 minutes
[05:40] <c0rrupt_> LOL
[05:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[05:41] <benjamin1254> how do u install flash 7 from the console in kubuntu
[05:42] <benjamin1254> so all browsers can use it
[05:42] <hater2win> aaaahhhhhh
[05:42] <hater2win> much better
[05:42] <Kamping_Kaiser> have fun hater2win :)
[05:43] <hater2win> now i just gotta make all these buttons smaller
[05:43] <hater2win> they still looks huge lol
[05:43] <twidget> What does it mean when it says Not Installed (residual config) in kynaptic?
[05:46] <hater2win> Kamping_Kaiser: brb, gonna get some food
[05:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> yeh. same ;)
[05:47] <twidget> Is there a package similar to DreamWeaver?
[05:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> there are other wysiwyg editors, none like dreamweaver as such
[05:48] <twidget> Quanta? kdevelop?
[05:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> nvu
[05:57] <bjv> ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net?
[05:57] <bjv> bbailey: there is no official backport repo?
[05:57] <Kamping_Kaiser> not yet
[05:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> IIRC they wil be adding one with Breezy
[05:58] <bjv> mm
[05:58] <bjv> alright.
[05:58] <pax> !backports
[05:58] <ubotu> I heard backports is .. The Official Backports project has now officially been launched! deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary-backports main universe multiverse restricted
[05:58] <lluka> hi
[05:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> OH OK
[05:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> sorry caps
[05:59] <lluka> hey i have 2 sound cards installed in kubuntu and neither work :/
[05:59] <lluka> im sure its somethign really simple
[05:59] <lluka> but i cant figure it out
[05:59] <lluka> :(
[06:00] <bjv> i still dont have my sound support completely ironed out.
[06:00] <bjv> AC97 onboard though.
[06:01] <lluka> well, i dont remmeber how to do alsaconfigs
[06:05] <bjv> if i want to do a dist-upgrade and get the bare minimum of updates which sole repo should i use?
[06:05] <bjv> probably         deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary-updates main restricted  
[06:06] <bjv> would that miss anything? doesnt seem like it would.
[06:07] <hater2win> Kamping_Kaiser: back
[06:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> bjv: not if you just want to upgrade a basic system
[06:11] <bjv> well, i noticed that hoary main restricted wanted to download 295mib of packs
[06:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> sounds about right
[06:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> you don't need restricted btw 
[06:12] <bjv> oh? it was in there already
[06:12] <hater2win> whats in restricted?
[06:13] <bjv> main covers that?
[06:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> main is the "important bits" of the system, what's on the cd in effect
[06:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> restricted is proprietry stuff they cant include on the cd
[06:13] <bjv> ah
[06:13] <hater2win> ah i see
[06:14] <bjv> but if ive installed out of restricted id probably want it there to update stuff
[06:14] <lluka> i think my sound is coming out of the wrong card
[06:14] <lluka> :(
[06:14] <bjv> :P
[06:14] <lluka> does anyone know how to set it to the second (pci) card?
[06:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> hater2win: everything not in main or restricted
[06:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> ~16 thousand packages IIRC
[06:25] <hater2win> how old are you Kamping_Kaiser 
[06:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> 19
[06:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> few months ago
[06:25] <hater2win> nice, me too
[06:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol realy?
[06:25] <hater2win> yeah
[06:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> lmao sweet
[06:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> how long have you been doing Linux then?
[06:26] <hater2win> not very long at all
[06:26] <hater2win> the other day when i came in here
[06:26] <hater2win> is when i dedicated my machine ti linux
[06:26] <hater2win> i had tried ot slackware before, but failed miserably
[06:26] <hater2win> so basically a few days
[06:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> :) welcome aboard
[06:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> i havent bothered with slack
[06:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> i have isos somewhere, but fsck it ;0
[06:27] <hater2win> lol
[06:27] <hater2win> how long have you been linux-ing
[06:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> i tried on and off for 2 years ~ but that was just weekend entertainment - install manrape/FC/RH and go 'oh, Linux is to hard' and quit ;)
[06:28] <Kamping_Kaiser> this year is wehn it all happend
[06:28] <kalenedrael> ok, i have an extraordinarily strange problem here
[06:28] <kalenedrael> ls -l lists a file, but bash says it doesn't exist when i try to execute it with ./file
[06:28] <hater2win> kalenedrael: welcome to the club
[06:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> kalenedrael: it's probably not executeable
[06:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> what does ls -l file say?
[06:29] <kalenedrael> ah, but if that were the case, it would say 'permission denied'
[06:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> what's the line it puts out
[06:29] <kalenedrael> ls -l says it's 755
[06:29] <kalenedrael> rwxr-xr-x
[06:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. ok...
[06:30] <kalenedrael> odd, hm
[06:30] <bjv> ive randomly found that ./file wont autocomplete with tab or run
[06:30] <kalenedrael> oh, and another thing
[06:30] <bjv> i usually just use sh file instead
[06:31] <kalenedrael> hmm, now a different problem
[06:31] <kalenedrael> 'cannot execute binary file' after using sh file
[06:32] <bjv> funky.
[06:32] <bjv> something is awry here
[06:34] <c0rrupt_> hello, what is a good irc client?
[06:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> c0rrupt_: what do you need to do? "good" depends what you use it for
[06:35] <kalenedrael> c0rrupt_, i'd suggest xchat, if you use a GUI
[06:35] <bjv> i enjoy fighting with this pos called 'gaim', it all depends.
[06:35] <c0rrupt_> i use gaim for aim
[06:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> i use GAIM, people seem to like koppet or Xchat for similar
[06:35] <c0rrupt_> i hate it for linux
[06:35] <c0rrupt_> im in xchat right now
[06:35] <kalenedrael> you hate xchat?
[06:35] <c0rrupt_> mhm
[06:35] <kalenedrael> what part of it?
[06:35] <c0rrupt_> maybe its because i spent too many years on mirc
[06:36] <hater2win> lol
[06:36] <c0rrupt_> how do you even pm someone
[06:36] <lluka> hey
[06:36] <kalenedrael> /query
[06:36] <lluka> can someone help me with my sound card please?
[06:36] <lluka> i have 2 cards, and its sending audio to the wrong one
[06:37] <benjamin1254> hey is there an ez way to download and use flash plugin an ezier way ... like through apt-get or something of sorts?
[06:37] <kalenedrael> turn machine off, remove the 'wrong' one, start up
[06:37] <lluka> :/ its onboard
[06:37] <lluka> cant remove it
[06:38] <kalenedrael> oh
[06:38] <bjv> benjamin1254: there is a linux installer for flash i belive
[06:39] <c0rrupt_> Yo
[06:39] <c0rrupt_> how do you PM someone using xchat
[06:39] <lluka> i think you can install flash from within konqueror
[06:39] <kalenedrael> c0rrupt_, /query
[06:39] <c0rrupt_> heh
[06:39] <c0rrupt_> nvm
[06:39] <kalenedrael> or, /msg
[06:39] <c0rrupt_> thanks
[06:40] <hater2win> how do you make red text?
[06:40] <c0rrupt_> action
[06:40] <lluka> thers gotta be a way change the devices
[06:40] <hater2win> ...?
[06:40] <lluka> for sound
[06:40] <c0rrupt_> 0,o
[06:40] <lluka> :(
[06:40] <hater2win> action wtf
[06:40] <c0rrupt_> KaiL_, test
[06:40] <KaiL_> hmm?
[06:40] <hater2win> %action wtf
[06:40] <hater2win> lol
[06:40] <benjamin1254> really.. yeah but i believe u have to move it to the place where ur browser is to use ity then for me from there its still a pain in the rear to use
[06:41] <c0rrupt_> hater2win, hello
[06:41] <hater2win> bah
[06:42] <hater2win> c0rrupt_: teach me or else... or else ill hack you in a few years whenever i get this down...  lol
[06:42] <c0rrupt_> you just did it
[06:42] <hater2win> oh did i?
[06:42] <c0rrupt_> ...
[06:42] <c0rrupt_> yes
[06:42] <hater2win> wtf
[06:42] <hater2win> how come it doesnt show up red on my screen
[06:42] <c0rrupt_> when u send nick:
[06:42] <hater2win> lol
[06:42] <c0rrupt_> it only showed red to me
[06:42] <hater2win> ooohhh
[06:42] <c0rrupt_> becuase you started the message with my nic
[06:42] <c0rrupt_> nick
[06:43] <hater2win> i see i see
[06:51] <hater2win> Kamping_Kaiser: what does this mean: checking for X... configure: error: Can't find X includes. Please check your installation and add the correct paths!
[06:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> where do you see that hater2win?
[06:52] <hater2win> when i do ./configure on this window decoration i downloaded
[06:52] <hater2win> thats the error i get
[06:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> you might need to get some X sorce files.... iwouldent know which though.
[06:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> if it's something i have to compile i don't instlal it... i have better things to do  with my time ;)
[06:53] <hater2win> lol
[06:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> like work on NFP constitutions :S
[06:55] <seth_k> kdelibs-dev
[06:55] <seth_k> is what you need
[06:55] <lluka> how do i get extra stuff with kynaptic?
[06:56] <bjv> you select packages, then hit the update&install button?
[06:57] <lluka> err
[06:57] <lluka> can i get stuff from the net with it?
[06:57] <lluka> or is it just for the cd?
[06:57] <bjv> you should be able to get stuff off the net
[06:58] <bjv> i belive that by default it gives you the CD and the main/restricted repos
[06:58] <bjv> check /etc/apt/sources.list
[06:59] <lluka> k one sec
[07:00] <lluka> file is empty
[07:00] <lluka> >_<
[07:00] <hater2win> Kamping_Kaiser: where is kde intalled at in kubuntu by default?
[07:01] <seth_k> hater2win, did you see my line above about needing kdelibs-dev ?
[07:01] <seth_k> hater2win, and /usr/lib/kde3 is a good start probably
[07:01] <hater2win> oh ok
[07:01] <hater2win> and i need kdelibs?
[07:01] <seth_k> kdelibs-dev
[07:01] <seth_k> not kdelibs, you should already have that one
[07:02] <hater2win> oh ok
[07:02] <hater2win> what will those do?
[07:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> hater2win: gives you something to compile against
[07:03] <hater2win> ah i see
[07:03] <hater2win> what does this mean:
[07:03] <hater2win> Package kdelibs-dev is a virtual package provided by:
[07:03] <hater2win>   kdelibs4-dev 4:3.4.0-0ubuntu3.3
[07:03] <hater2win> You should explicitly select one to install.
[07:04] <nocloud> is there a way to make my monitor turn off after a certain number of minutes?
[07:04] <hater2win> i need to sudo apt-get install kdelibs4-dev
[07:04] <hater2win> ?
[07:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> hater2win: it means change kdelibs-blah to either one of those 2 packages
[07:05] <hater2win> i did kdelibs4-dev
[07:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok
[07:09] <nocloud> does anybody else get a nasty click/snap noise from their hard drive when they shut down kubuntu?
[07:09] <crimsun> nocloud: that's normal.
[07:09] <nocloud> isn't that bad for the hard drive.....
[07:09] <kalenedrael> that's normal
[07:09] <kalenedrael> no, it's not bad for the hard drive
[07:10] <kalenedrael> you get that sound whenever you shut down
[07:10] <nocloud> actually, i don't get the sound when i shut down through windows....
[07:10] <nocloud> or when i power off in the dell bios
[07:10] <kalenedrael> then windows must have some routine to park the heads
[07:11] <nocloud> it doesn't sound right...i mean hard drives are mechanical and all....
[07:11] <kalenedrael> that sound is fine, though
[07:11] <kalenedrael> hard drives are mechanical, and you should remember that :P
[07:11] <nocloud> makes it seem like its hurting the drive....
[07:11] <kalenedrael> it's not
[07:11] <kalenedrael> it's what the drive does when power to it is cut
[07:12] <kalenedrael> there is circuitry to recover energy from the platter rotation and move the read/write heads to the proper 'park' location
[07:13] <_dave> Hi new to kubuntu (used MDK 10 tho :) )
[07:14] <nocloud> is there a way to turn off my monitor...
[07:15] <nocloud> like after a certain number of minutes or when i close the lid of my laptop...
[07:15] <_dave> #help
[07:15] <_dave> would like to know if anyone could help ....
[07:15] <nocloud> _dave: what is your problem?
[07:17] <_dave> on a ubuntu packages site (http://nz.ubuntu....) there is some updated files of amule but i cannot get them via kynaptic or synaptic
[07:18] <_dave> I did download the files i needed and installed them via apt-get but i got dependacy issues
[07:18] <nocloud> which version are you trying to update to?
[07:19] <_dave> I also did a wild card insert (so that all the 3 deb files i had downloaded would get installed)
[07:19] <nocloud> kynaptic has version 1.2.6+rc7-2
[07:19] <hater2win> what are the pack downloads for qt?
[07:19] <nocloud> i'm guessing you are looking for an even newer one?
[07:20] <_dave> nocloud: amule 2.0.3 ... latest ver (looked in the packages & packages.gz files and these are not there).
[07:23] <hater2win> dcgui-qt?
[07:24] <nocloud>  _dave: if what you tried didn't work, then i don't know of anything else you can do, maybe somebody here with more experience could help
[07:25] <hater2win> anybody? qt?
[07:26] <_dave> nocloud: i did have amule2.3...deb (can't remember the url :( had to remove it due to disk space, went from Ubuntu to Kubuntu - couldn't get my head around gnome).
[07:31] <nocloud> does anybody know how to change AIM profiles in kopete?
[07:32] <_dave> anyone able to help with installing via kynaptic / synaptic deb packages that are newer then those in the official list ??? (taking amule 2.3)
[07:33] <bjv> you want the absolute latest version? i generally just build them from source.
[07:33] <bjv> install them to ~/ or whatever
[07:35] <supernix> anyone here use Thunderbird ?
[07:35] <hater2win> Kamping_Kaiser: im out for the night, ill see ya tomorrow, thanks for the help
[07:35] <kalenedrael> _dave, you have to build them yourself, then
[07:35] <hater2win> night all
[07:36] <Kamping_Kaiser> night hater ;)
[07:37] <nocloud> seriously....can somebody tell me how to change my AIM profile in kopete?
[07:37] <nocloud> i've literally searched for half an hour
[07:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> sorry i cant, i use giam
[07:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> *GAIM
[07:40] <pax> Settings - Configure Kopete - Accounts. Highlight your account and click Modify.
[07:41] <nocloud> i tried that already...there's nothing there to change the profile.....
[07:41] <nocloud>  pax: did you google and find that post on linuxquestions?
[07:44] <pax> nocloud: Yes.
[07:45] <nocloud> yea, i think that might have worked with an older version of kopete....
[07:46] <pax> I'm too old for AOL and messengers. I use the phone to communicate.
[07:46] <_dave> kalenedrael: well then why are they in the repository (universe) but not in the packages) ??
[07:47] <kalenedrael> _dave, what?
[07:47] <kalenedrael> the newer versions aren't in packages yet
[07:47] <pax> nocloud: can't change your profile on their webpage?
[07:48] <nocloud> no, i don't think so
[07:49] <nocloud> i went to the aim site to look....and, its like the AOL site...impossible to find anything with commercials and confusing stuff everywhere
[07:55] <_dave> kalenedrael: well that's right as of last night i even looked inside them to see if they were there manually (went to url and opened the 2 documents and looked for amule and it on;y showed the 1.2.6+rc7-2 files not 2.3 updated ones that can be seen by going to the universe url).
[08:07] <_dave> Oh shit .... i didn't delete the file after all so i can reinstall amule2.3 (it's just not a K/Ubuntu package.
[08:30] <c0rrupt_> hello
[08:30] <c0rrupt_> how can i get ndiswrapper to run modprobe at startup?
[08:31] <kalenedrael> ndiswrapper -m
[08:31] <kalenedrael> alternatively, you can RTFM :P
[08:31] <pussfeller> you mean where to put it in the start up scripts?
[08:32] <c0rrupt_> yea
[08:32] <c0rrupt_> i already ran ndiswrapper -m
[08:32] <c0rrupt_> its saved
[08:32] <kalenedrael> ...
[08:32] <kalenedrael> hmm
[08:32] <c0rrupt_> just everytime i boot
[08:32] <c0rrupt_> i have to run
[08:32] <c0rrupt_> modprobe ndiswrapper
[08:32] <c0rrupt_> then dhclient
[08:32] <kalenedrael> what?
[08:33] <kalenedrael> that's weird
[08:33] <kalenedrael> ndiswrapper -m should make it load on startup
[08:33] <c0rrupt_> where are startup scripts located
[08:33] <c0rrupt_> hm
[08:33] <kalenedrael> they are in /etc/init.d
[08:33] <kalenedrael> and /etc/rc*.d
[08:33] <kalenedrael> (or they should be, anyway)
[08:33] <c0rrupt_> rc0.d?
[08:34] <pussfeller> thats a good question, ubuntu uses them old timey rc's that are confusing
[08:34] <c0rrupt_> so
[08:34] <c0rrupt_> i can put any command in therr
[08:34] <c0rrupt_> and it will be run on startup?
[08:35] <c0rrupt_> hm
[08:35] <c0rrupt_> nvm
[08:35] <c0rrupt_> so
[08:35] <c0rrupt_> how do i add a command
[08:35] <c0rrupt_> just make a script?
[08:35] <kalenedrael> the way to do it in ubuntu is to create a script to do it in init.d, then add symlinks as necessary to rc*.d
[08:35] <kalenedrael> yes
[08:36] <kalenedrael> #!/bin/sh
[08:36] <kalenedrael> modprobe ndiswrapper
[08:36] <kalenedrael> dhclient wlan0
[08:36] <c0rrupt_> save it as..
[08:36] <c0rrupt_> ndiswrapper.sh?
[08:36] <c0rrupt_> or something
[08:50] <kalenedrael> c0rrupt, sure
[09:05] <duende> Has anyone tried amsn with the new webcam support?
[09:16] <armin> hello there
[09:17] <armin> hi, i'm using the grub boot loader but i want my computer to boot up in windows XP instead of Kubuntu by default, can you please help me?
[09:17] <Kamping_Kaiser> i can try
[09:21] <nikkia> armin, you need to change the 'default' value in /boot/grub.menu.lst  that's all
[09:21] <nikkia> erm /boot/grub/menu.lst
[09:22] <armin> i'm not sure how to do that (linux newbie). i've got the file open
[09:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> armin: does it say "read only "at the top?
[09:24] <znh> http://kde-look.org/content/pre1/23315-1.jpg
[09:24] <armin> no
[09:24] <znh> oops
[09:25] <znh>  hmm does anyone know how to get the taskbar at the top? like in here: <see url>
[09:26] <nikkia> znh, click on panel, drag to top, release
[09:26] <nikkia> that's how i have my panel :P
[09:26] <znh> that would move the whole panel
[09:26] <nikkia> that's how it is in the screenshot
[09:27] <znh> I just want to have my taskbar at top, and the buttons at under
[09:27] <nikkia> znh, you can create a second panel, and put just the taskbar on it, and put that at the top, leaving the normal panel at the bottom
[09:27] <znh> 0_o! WOOT
[09:28] <nikkia> can't for the life of me remember how you create a second panel tho :)
[09:28] <nikkia> ah
[09:28] <nikkia> 'Add to Panel->Panel->Panel'
[09:29] <znh> Panel Menu -> add to panel -> 
[09:29] <znh> yep indeed
[09:29] <nikkia> actually
[09:29] <znh> hmm can I resize my second panel?
[09:30] <nikkia> 'External Taskbar' might be a better choice for you
[09:30] <znh> nikkia: I did, but I can't resize that one :P
[09:30] <znh> the normal panel can
[09:31] <znh> what means 'shrugs' ?
[09:31] <nikkia> gah!
[09:31] <nikkia> i'm supposed to have a 'chat' with my boss today
[09:31] <znh> :-/
[09:32] <znh> what happend?
[09:32] <nikkia> but i'm not sure if he's going to be in the office or not, and don't want to walk to work if he's not as its wasted time
[09:32] <nikkia> and he's not answering his mobile
[09:32] <znh> oh boy
[09:32] <nikkia> oh, its not a bad 'chat'
[09:32] <nikkia> just need to go over the results from a meeting last week
[09:33] <nikkia> but i have no idea if its a chat via phone, or chat in person, he intended
[09:33] <nikkia> and if i go to the office, it means i can't get much/any work done til i get home again :/
[09:33] <znh> that's a shitty situation
[09:33] <znh> what about going to your boss?
[09:34] <_dave> bye
[09:37] <nikkia> znh, go to him about what?
[09:37] <znh> well, to get a view how he wants the conversation
[09:38] <nikkia> thats why i was calling his mobile
[09:38] <nikkia> which he's not answering
[09:38] <znh> I mean, just by meeting him
[09:38] <nikkia> i just asked our project manager tho, he says he's 'supposed to be in, but you might as well stay there and i'll ask him to give you a call to let you know how he wants to do the chat'
[09:38] <znh> oh ok :-)
[09:39] <nikkia> most likely, a phone chat will suffice, that way i can get more work done today
[09:39] <nikkia> (my work PC doesn't have enough ram to run the project i'm developing :)
[09:40] <znh> heh, that's awesome for you :-P
[09:41] <znh> I would love it to work at home
[09:43] <znh> however..
[09:44] <Poromies> heh, i cant get anything done when im at home :)
[09:44] <znh> put a picture of your boss on the wall
[09:56] <twidget> I've monkeyed up something. When I boot, I get alerts saying, "The Composite Manager crashed twice within a minute and is therefore disabled for this session" and "Composite Extension not found: You must use XOrg > 6.8 for translucency and shadows to work." What have I done, or more to the point, how do I fix it?
[10:00] <twidget> trying again...
[10:00] <twidget> I've monkeyed up something. When I boot, I get alerts saying, "The Composite Manager crashed twice within a minute and is therefore disabled for this session" and "Composite Extension not found: You must use XOrg > 6.8 for translucency and shadows to work." What have I done, or more to the point, how do I fix it?
[10:00] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[10:01] <Kamping_Kaiser> you running a stock Kubuntu?
[10:01] <twidget> well, I didn't know if it ever went out before all Hell broke loose there :)
[10:01] <twidget> Kamping_Kaiser: well,,, no... I've changed a few things
[10:01] <nikkia> hmmm
[10:02] <nikkia> guess freenode's IPv6 servers went down
[10:02] <Kamping_Kaiser> twidget: have you changed the install of KDE for example?
[10:02] <nikkia> urgh, is this the new server software?
[10:02] <twidget> I don't think so
[10:02] <nikkia> i don't like that 'N=' bit in the hostmasks
[10:03] <twidget> why are some N= and some I= ?
[10:03] <nikkia> twidget: registered and unregistered?
[10:03] <nikkia> hold on a second
[10:04] <nikkia> hmmm, no, identifying didn't make it I= *shrug*
[10:04] <nikkia> znh, my boss just called, he's on holiday today, but IS coming in, and wants to chat in person, but he'll not be there til 10, so
[10:04] <znh> nikkia: wow must be important :-/
[10:05] <nikkia> nah, he has a few other things he wants to do too
[10:05] (Tranquitos/#kubuntu) wow... what was that???
[10:05] <znh> Tranquitos: server split
[10:06] <znh> maybe we need to shout a little harder to understand each other
[10:06] <nikkia> i'm not sure if it was a split, or server upgrade
[10:06] <Tranquitos> znh: i've never seen this before :o
[10:06] <nikkia> something has most definitely changed on the server, for the N= and I= lines in the hostmask
[10:06] <znh> nikkia: it's in the motd
[10:06] <fatejudger> it was a split
[10:06] <nikkia> znh, not in mine its not
[10:07] <znh> -- *** Notice -- Server is currently split, channel modes are limited
[10:07] <nikkia> oh
[10:07] <znh> global notice
[10:07] <kasir> hello
[10:07] <fatejudger> great...
[10:07] <fatejudger> now we're all getting disconnected
[10:07] <fatejudger> lol
[10:08] <Tranquitos> which other servers are available?
[10:08] <znh> Tranquitos: won't help, all the servers are linked to each other
[10:09] <Tranquitos> oh, ok... so i guess we have to live without freenode for a while hehe
[10:09] <znh> wb nikkia 
[10:09] <znh> Tranquitos: they will fix it fast ;)
[10:09] <znh> nikkia: what's IPv6 ?
[10:10] <Tranquitos> znh: Internet Protocol version 6
[10:10] <nikkia> znh, version 6 of the IP standard
[10:10] <nikkia> as opposed to v4 which most people use :)
[10:10] <znh> hm, is it recommended?
[10:10] <Tranquitos> i think some days ago there was a global notice about a beta IPv6 server in freenode
[10:11] <nikkia> Tranquitos: its a test-net
[10:11] <nikkia> Tranquitos: thus, not connected to the rest of the freenode net
[10:11] <Tranquitos> ah, ok... 
[10:12] <nikkia> Tranquitos: there are a couple of IPv6 freenode servers, but i'm puzzled as to how uniq is on 'irc.freenode.net' using IPv6, whereas i have to go via calkins or goethe
[10:12] <znh> And it's you when I look in the mirror..
[10:12] <znh> omg I have one second lagg
[10:12] <nikkia> znh, IPv6 is great, if you can get it working, but its not very newbie friendly to setup a tunnel, and very few ISPs offer native IPv6 connectivity
[10:13] <znh> nikkia: I think mines does, my brother had it by default
[10:13] <nikkia> actually, thats only vaguely true, setting up a tunnel with the tunnel broker i'm using is pretty easy - they supply a daemon that handles the connection
[10:14] <Tranquitos> nikkia: is it possible to have IPv6 over an IPv4 ISP?
[10:14] <nikkia> Tranquitos: yes, that's what i mean by a tunnel
[10:14] <nikkia> its basically an IPv6 VPN between you and the tunnel broker
[10:14] <buz> yeah but wheres the point, really
[10:14] <buz> only slows you down
[10:15] <nikkia> buz, only for IPv6 sites, and without any IPv6 tunnel, you can't access those at all :)
[10:15] <buz> mhh there are such?
[10:15] <buz> like what
[10:15] <nikkia> buz, a few, yes
[10:15] <Tranquitos> i still don't get it :( 
[10:15] <nikkia> buz, you find quite a few BT peers that are only IPv6 reachable too
[10:16] <Tranquitos> maybe i'll have to read some RFCs or manuals...
[10:16] <znh> msg -lilo- good luck dude, this must be frustrating
[10:17] <znh> d'oh
[10:23] <twidget> OMG http://ipodmybaby.com/
[10:24] <znh> rofl
[10:24] <lluka> hi all
[10:24] <znh> twidget: can you receive me *shouts*
[10:25] <twidget> what?!
[10:25] <znh> hm not hard enough
[10:25] <twidget> I can't hear you over all this shouting!
[10:25] <nikkia> ah, it was both a netsplit AND server upgrades
[10:25] <Tranquitos> hi lluka 
[10:25] <nikkia> " Late-scheduled sponsor power outages between 9am and 10am UTC on Monday, 8 August 2005 (a bit over a day from now) will impact network use for most of our users"
[10:25] <nikkia> "We'll take the opportunity at that time to do software updates on several of our servers, and we'll also schedule a test upgrade to Hyperion 1.0. Hyperion is a fork of our current dancer-ircd 1.0 ircd server software."
[10:26] <lluka> grr, somehow i just hit update all packages
[10:26] <lluka> in kynaptic
[10:26] <lluka> .-,
[10:26] <lluka> >_<
[10:26] <lluka> so its downloading a zillion things
[10:26] <znh> you should be more up2date then :P
[10:26] <nikkia> ah, the I=/N= thing indicates identd success/failure
[10:27] <lluka> im trying to get envy24control
[10:27] <lluka> in alsa-utils
[10:27] <znh> nikkia: aha
[10:27] <nikkia> aha, cool
[10:27] <lluka> thats probably why my sound isnt working
[10:27] <lluka> i have an ICE1712 chipset
[10:27] <lluka> m-audio
[10:27] <nikkia> 'you can now identify to nickserv as part of the connection process, simply connect with your registered nick, and pass your nickserv password as a server password'
[10:28] <znh> hmm
[10:29] <twidget> ARGH!
[10:29] <znh> indeed, no need to nickserv!
[10:31] <nikkia> except, it seems nickserv is AWOL anyway :)
[10:31] <Tranquitos> nikkia: you're now with an IPv6 address :)
[10:31] <Tranquitos> --> nikkia has joined this channel. (N=nikkia@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:31b3)
[10:31] <znh> nikkia: are there guides to setup IPv6 ?
[10:31] <nikkia> Tranquitos: i was earlier, but i was puzzled as to why i have to use a specific IPv6 server, uniq is listed as on irc.freenode.net but with an IPv6 connection
[10:31] <nikkia> znh, yes, but few of them work
[10:32] <nikkia> znh, freenet6 is the easiest to setup, it uses tspc to provide the connection, you just tell it your username/password for freenet6 and it creates an IPv6 tunnel automatically
[10:32] <znh> nikkia: aight!
[10:36] <nikkia> thank god for fcron :)
[10:37] <nikkia> @first(0) 15m /usr/local/bin/tspc_test
[10:37] <znh> compiling tspc2
[10:37] <nikkia> (run immediately on boot, then every 15 minutes after that)
[10:37] <znh> done
[10:38] <nikkia> znh, best way to test your IPv6 tunnel is to 'ping6 www.netbsd.org'
[10:39] <znh> I have to configure it first
[10:39] <nikkia> znh, there's not much to configure really, for a basic tunnel
[10:39] <nikkia> just username, password and server
[10:39] <znh> yea, must I create a tspc.conf in conf/ ?
[10:39] <nikkia> i ask for a /48 subnet from them, but you don't need to get that working right away
[10:40] <nikkia> znh, erm, it has to be in the same directory that you run tspc from
[10:40] <nikkia> so i have it in /usr/local/tspc/bin
[10:40] <znh> I  see!
[10:40] <nikkia> znh, just copy the default config and edit it
[10:40] <nikkia> as i said, i think you only need to change the username, password and server lines
[10:41] <znh> I know
[10:41] <nikkia> if you're going to setup a subnet, you'll need to apt-get radvd
[10:41] <nikkia> but also as i said, i wouldn't bother with that until you have a working single-address setup :)
[10:41] <nikkia> znh, the great thing about IPv6 is radvd, it makes dhcp look complicated :)
[10:42] <nikkia> if you have an IPv6 capable host on your LAN, it will automatically pick up an address and routing table from radvd
[10:42] <znh> lol it says it can't find tspc.conf, it is in the same directory as the bin
[10:43] <nikkia> znh, hmmm, it might be looking in some specific dir
[10:43] <nikkia> you can try -f  to specify the config file directly
[10:44] <znh> lol!
[10:44] <nikkia> znh, as i said, it looks in the *current* directory, not the location of the binary, i just happen to put them both in the same place, and start tspc with a script that cd's to that dir first
[10:45] <znh> znh@amd1400:~/Desktop/tspc2$ ls
[10:45] <znh> bin   GPL_LICENSE.txt  Makefile  Mk    platform  template
[10:45] <znh> conf  include          man       objs  src       tspc.conf
[10:45] <znh> znh@amd1400:~/Desktop/tspc2$ bin/tspc
[10:47] <znh> i'll get the ubuntu package.. this source seems to be broken
[10:49] <znh> allright it works nikkia 
[10:50] <nikkia> znh, you can ping6 www.netbsd.org ?
[10:50] <znh> yep
[10:50] <znh> with 360ms reply lol
[10:51] <znh> hmm I don't see any IPv6 options in Konversation
[10:51] <nikkia> znh, try it with normal ping, you'll probably find its about 200-250mS anyway
[10:52] <nikkia> netbsd.org's servers seem to be consistantly slow, but they are a good IPv6 test since they seem to be pretty much always up :)
[10:52] <znh> aight
[10:52] <nikkia> most howto's suggest uk6x as a test ping, but i found that uk6x has spotty connectivity
[10:53] <znh> how did I connect with IPv6 ?
[10:53] <znh> (to IRC)
[10:53] <znh> or goes that automaticly
[10:53] <nikkia> depends on your client
[10:53] <znh> Konversation here
[10:53] <nikkia> kvirc has a -i switch to /server to specify IPv6 connection
[10:54] <znh> aha
[10:55] <Tranquitos> i have a basic question about ping times. if the ping is slow, does that mean that the connection will be slow? 
[10:55] <znh> [/server -i sterling.freenode.net]  ?
[10:55] <nikkia> no, only some of the freenode servers are IPv6
[10:55] <nikkia> Tranquitos: not necessarily
[10:55] <znh> nikkia: do you know some?
[10:56] <nikkia> znh, irc.ipv6.freenode.net is a round-robin lookup on the IPv6 enabled servers
[10:56] <Tranquitos> nikkia: i thought so... so what is ping time useful for?
[10:56] <znh> [10:56:36]  Connection attempt failed (irc.ipv6.freenode.net)
[10:56] <znh> Tranquitos: just too see if there's connection, and how fast you can communicate with a server
[10:57] <nikkia> gotta go to the office, back later
[10:57] <znh> good luck :)
[10:58] <Tranquitos> ok, nikkia, thanks! 
[11:00] <hussam> What's up folks?
[11:00] <znh> doing good u?
[11:01] <hussam> fine :)
[11:01] <znh> I am going to play ET
[11:01] <hussam> what's ET?
[11:03] <Tranquitos> enemy territory?
[11:30] <fatejudger> I'm having a little bit of trouble with some conflicting packages
[11:30] <fatejudger> I installed a package to replace another package
[11:30] <fatejudger> and somehow I broke two other packages
[11:43] <fatejudger> wow, I just seriously screwed up my kubuntu installation
[11:43] <fatejudger> time to format
[11:43] <fatejudger> lol
[11:46] <lluka> hey anyone there?
[11:59] <Mez> lluka /me waves
[12:02] <lluka> YAY!
[12:02] <lluka> i got it to install
[12:02] <lluka> :D:D:D:D:D:D::D:D
[12:04] <lluka> whats a good way to back up an entire linux system?
[12:07] <amu> dd if=/hdd1 of=/hdd2 
[12:09] <lluka> >_<
[12:09] <lluka> ok
[12:09] <lluka> and then i can burn to cd?
[12:13] <amu> nope, you have your datas on the other hdd ... if you want a cdbackup, enable universe and run a apt-get install cdbackup 
[12:19] <lluka> damn
[12:19] <lluka> i can only get OSS to werk
[12:19] <lluka> :(
[12:27] <Firetech> How do I make a non architecture specific .deb?
[12:27] <GOGILOLik> http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830
[12:30] <fromoze> irc-spam?
[12:45] <amu> Firetech: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Architecture
[12:46] <Firetech> amu: thanks
[12:47] <jpatrick> net split
[01:15] <|rockinnerd|> seth_k, is customizing the kubuntu livecd the same as doing the ubuntu livecd?
[01:23] <propagandhi> how can I permanently modify the PATH in ubuntu
[01:24] <|rockinnerd|> propagandhi, edit your ~/.bashrc?
[01:25] <propagandhi> theres no path line in there, do i add my own
[01:27] <|rockinnerd|> hmm... try bash_profile?
[01:28] <propagandhi> excellent, thank you
[01:28] <|rockinnerd|> np
[01:31] <|rockinnerd|> http://www.slashnot.com/article.php3?story_id=121
[01:39] <Aapzak> aseigo: I just came in to congratulate you on your sponsordeal, I hope you get to do a lot of good things
[01:40] <Aapzak> I've been ill the last couple of days, I just read your blog .. always nice entries. keep it up, cu around, ciao!
[01:54] <Chameleon22> does anyone know if one can connect Samsung E700 mobile to workstation via a USB cable? so far it doesnt autodetect it which is a pitty and wouldnt know where to start to mount the bugger
[01:55] <|rockinnerd|> Chameleon22, do you have to change a setting to let it upload pics?
[01:55] <Chameleon22> |rockinnerd|,  what?
[01:55] <|rockinnerd|> Chameleon22, open up konsole, type sudo gtkam &
[01:55] <|rockinnerd|> then try
[01:56] <Chameleon22> |rockinnerd|, k hold up 
[01:57] <Chameleon22> damn universe is slow
[01:57] <Chameleon22> from AU any way 
[01:58] <nikkia> Chameleon22: most USB cables for phones just create a serial port, you need software to access the phone via that serial port
[01:58] <nikkia> Chameleon22: i'd really honestly suggest using bluetooth for transferring files, its much easier, especially with kdebluetooth
[01:58] <Chameleon22> nikkia, phone doesnt support bt
[01:58] <Chameleon22> |rockinnerd|, no luck mate
[01:59] <|rockinnerd|> :(
[01:59] <|rockinnerd|> google it
[01:59] <Chameleon22> i tried, wouldnt be asking :(
[02:00] <Chameleon22> are there any php-gtk packages for kubuntu ?
[02:07] <Sputn1k> How to normalize fonts: http://www.zippyimages.com/82748.html ?
[02:17] <nikkia> HMM
[02:17] <nikkia> oops
[02:17] <nikkia> another situation where i wish this keyboard had a caps-lock LED :P
[02:19] <ztonzy> nikkia: I have a such keyboard without a LED for capslock in my closet...didnt enjoy much
[02:19] <nikkia> ztonzy: this is wireless, so i understand the motivation
[02:20] <nikkia> and the fact that i went 8 months without changing batteries is much appreciated :)
[02:20] <ztonzy> nikkia: heh
[02:20] <nikkia> i was just wondering if the guy that reviewed this album was on crack or not
[02:20] <ztonzy> I see
[02:21] <ztonzy> what album ?
[02:21] <nikkia> he said track 4 was 'very pink floyd-ish'
[02:21] <ztonzy> or review
[02:21] <nikkia> but clearly, the pink floyd-ish track is track 6, which sounds almost identical to a mix of Sheep and Pigs
[02:21] <nikkia> ztonzy: Anathema - A Natural Disaster
[02:21] <ztonzy> maybe a typo, I read typos everyday in our Metro :P
[02:22] <ztonzy> when it says page 08 it is 04  heh >_<
[02:22] <nikkia> ztonzy: nah, he named the track rather than said 'track 4'
[02:24] <donofrio_> anyone kernel freaks?
[02:25] <donofrio_> got a 2.6.1X pcmcia issue with my 3c589 and my yenta controller?? doesn't seem to be working?
[02:25] <nikkia> donofrio_: i've heard of yenta issues in 2.6, but i have yenta on my laptop and it works fine *shrug*
[02:26] <nikkia> donofrio_: i did experience some issues with my ACX wireless card that are apparently related
[02:26] <draxus> hi
[02:26] <nikkia> it refused to upload firmware about 75% of the time in 32bit mode, but switched to 16bit pcmcia mode in the acx code and it works every time
[02:33] <chrej> hey people, I have a weird problem with my control center, every time i try 'administrator mode' it just reloads the tab in the normal mode while i have sudo, any ideas?
[02:34] <nikkia> chrej, admin mode is occasionally broken on some installs
[02:34] <chrej> yeah apearantly :P
[02:34] <nikkia> chrej, use 'kdesu kcontrol' instead from a run dialog
[02:34] <chrej> ah, thx trying it
[02:34] <donofrio_> nikkia what kernel version do you run (any patches applied?)
[02:35] <nikkia> donofrio_: on my laptop? just the standard .10 from the [k] ubuntu repos
[02:35] <donofrio_> ok I'm .11 )-:
[02:35] <chrej> nikkia:  super, it worked, thx again
[02:38] <pl_ice> hey
[02:44] <pl_ice> anyone here?
[02:49] <pl_ice> anyone uses vsftpd?
[02:52] <nikkia> pl_ice: yes
[02:54] <_simon_> hi all
[02:56] <Sputn1k> I broke my gtk1 fonts, now they looks like http://www.zippyimages.com/82748.html How can i normalize them?
[02:59] <jpatrick> maybe you should reset them by clicking on 'defaults'?
[03:00] <_simon_> i'm still try to switch off the loop trhough of my mic/speaker. any help would be great.
[03:00] <nikkia> _simon_: run alsamixer, set the mic volume to 0 ?
[03:01] <nikkia> and in future remember that alsamixer uses seperate volume controls for monitoring/recording levels of microphones :)
[03:01] <nikkia> (you can switch between them with F3 and F4)
[03:02] <_simon_> so if i set the mic volume to 0 i'm still able to use my mic for skype?
[03:02] <nikkia> (or you can use tab to switch from playback->recording->all)
[03:03] <nikkia> _simon_: set the volume to 0 in playback, set the volume to non-0 (you'll have to experiment) in recording, and set the capture device for alsa in the recording screen to the mic
[03:03] <_simon_> i'll try that. thanks very much!
[03:03] <nikkia> actually, i tell a lie, you want to set the 'capture' volume control to non-0, and just tell it to use the mic as the capture device, i thought it had individual capture levels, but it doesn't
[03:04] <skowycz> hey, hey, hey, hey (echo) !
[03:23] <TilTNimpuS> salut tout le monde
[04:27] <supernix> hi
[04:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi
[04:27] <OculusAquilae> hi
[04:31] <supernix> Kamping_Kaiser: have you used Mozilla Mail ?
[04:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> no i havent
[04:32] <supernix> I keep getting this error everytime I start it up about can't find /content/messenger.xul
[04:34] <|rockinnerd|> help. chris@cataclysmicearthquake:~$ sudo mount kubuntu-5.04-live-i386.iso mnt -o loop
[04:34] <|rockinnerd|> ioctl: LOOP_CLR_FD: Device or resource busy
[04:34] <|rockinnerd|> mount: you must specify the filesystem type 
[04:42] <brandonn> I'm trying to use Kate embedded in Konqueror, but I don't get a menu, and I can't seem to type, anyone know why?
[04:43] <Saint-George> http://www.zippyimages.com/82817.html why xmms fonts looks so ugly? How can i normalize them? Few weaks ago fonts were find...
[04:44] <sproingie> brandonn: the embedded kate is read-only as far as i can tell
[04:44] <brandonn> hmm, that isn't very useful
[04:44] <sproingie> i agree
[04:44] <brandonn> I got the embedded kvim to work, but it crashes every other time I use it
[04:45] <sproingie> yep, that's my experience with kvim too
[04:45] <brandonn> those seem to be the only two embedded options
[04:46] <|rockinnerd|> ick.
[04:46] <sproingie> yep.  embedded kate seems to exist mostly for syntax highlighting of text files
[04:46] <|rockinnerd|> it sitll wont work
[04:46] <buz> is there a way to print a whole dir full of pdfs at once
[04:46] <|rockinnerd|> root@cataclysmicearthquake:/home/chris # mount kubuntu-5.04-live-i386.iso mnt -o loop
[04:46] <|rockinnerd|> ioctl: LOOP_CLR_FD: Device or resource busy
[04:46] <|rockinnerd|> mount: you must specify the filesystem type
[04:46] <|rockinnerd|> sry for flood
[04:46] <lluka> hey :D
[04:46] <lluka> anyone know how to install ati radeon drivers on kubuntu
[04:47] <lluka> ?
[04:47] <sproingie> check the wiki for BinaryDriverHowto
[04:47] <sproingie> the bot on #ubuntu seems to be MIA
[04:48] <sproingie> oh wait i fatfingered the name
[04:48] <sproingie>  http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/BinaryDriverHowto
[04:51] <znh> test 1234 (can you guys receive me?)
[04:51] <|rockinnerd|> znh, yes
[04:51] <znh> weej
[05:28] <lluka> hey what do i type for BusID for an agp slot
[05:28] <lluka> ?
[05:28] <lluka> in the device section /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[05:31] <amu> 0000:00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corp.: Unknown device 2772 (rev 02) 
[05:31] <amu> BusID           "PCI:0:2:0"
[05:32] <lluka> huh?
[05:32] <lluka> so 0:2:0?
[05:33] <nikkia> lluka: usually, its 01:00.0
[05:34] <nikkia> 00:*.* is usually reserved for onboard stuff
[05:34] <lluka> ok
[05:34] <lluka> so
[05:34] <lluka> 01:00.0
[05:34] <lluka> ?
[05:34] <nikkia> lluka: you shouldn't really need to specify it, but yeah, thats what it has been on all my systems
[05:35] <lluka> ok thanx
[05:35] <lluka> yah im trying to configure my ati radeon
[05:35] <lluka> um
[05:35] <dean> me too radeon 9600 (not pro or xt)
[05:35] <lluka> 01:00.0 or 01:00:0?
[05:36] <lluka> and do i have to specify an agp controller?
[05:36] <nikkia> lluka: you should be able to run lspci as root and see which busid your card is on yourself :)
[05:37] <lluka> err
[05:37] <lluka> im an ex mandrake user
[05:37] <lluka> lol
[05:37] <lluka> >_<
[05:38] <dean> mandriva you should say...
[05:38] <lluka> nah its been like 2 years
[05:38] <lluka> >_<
[05:39] <|rockinnerd|> Yay! i fixed my problem!
[05:41] <dean> from where i can download amule for kubuntu?
[05:42] <Firetech> Will  Kubuntu 5.10 wait for KDE 3.5? They are scheduled for release in the same month AFAIK.
[05:42] <lluka> :/
[05:42] <lluka> well
[05:43] <lluka> that didnt werk
[05:43] <|rockinnerd|> http://pastebin.com/332052
[05:43] <|rockinnerd|> ^^ my error and what i did
[05:44] <lluka> 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200]  (rev 01)
[05:44] <lluka> 0000:01:00.1 Display controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200]  (Secondary) (rev 01)
[05:44] <lluka> :/
[05:44] <lluka> which one do i pick
[05:45] <lluka> lol
[05:45] <nikkia> 01:00.0
[05:45] <lluka> k
[05:45] <lluka> then i have no clue 
[05:45] <lluka> :(
[05:45] <nikkia> the other is because of the weird way ati do their dual-head
[05:45] <nikkia> lluka: the 9200 can be particularly difficult to get working with X
[05:46] <nikkia> since the 9200 has several different device IDs, and ATI don't support them all via their driver
[06:08] <|rockinnerd|> :(
[06:16] <dreamwave> hi.  i've been trying to test the latest live cd, but when the boot process gets to loading kdm, it prints out several messages that processes were spawned to fast and will be delayed for 5 minutes (6 or 7 messages).  no login prompts or kdm available on any consoles.  i'm using a dell inspirion 8200.  anyone know what's wrong?
[06:20] <seth_k> dreamwave, you're testing a colony CD?
[06:20] <seth_k> dreamwave, the 2.6.12 kernels until .5, I believe, had a timer problem that completely prevents them from working
[06:20] <seth_k> dreamwave, it's fixed now
[06:20] <dreamwave> nope.  just the one available at http://kubuntu.org/hoary-kde-342.php 
[06:20] <seth_k> hmm
[06:31] <lluka> my ati control panel says "transfer mode: pci"
[06:31] <lluka> :/
[06:31] <lluka> but its an agp card
[06:34] <Woxxy> hey, does kubuntu come with gnome on the same CD or is it just KDE?
[06:35] <Poromies> just KDE
[06:35] <Woxxy> thanks Poromies
[06:35] <Poromies> but gettint bot is just a simple matter of "sudo apt-get install ubuntu(or if ya want to get KDE then kubuntu)-desktop
[06:36] <Poromies> *millions of typos*
[06:38] <lluka> does anyone know how to set up AGP?
[06:40] <nikkia> lluka: there is a option line to enable ATI's AGP port, it should be documented in the readme
[06:46] <nikkia> afternoon apokryphos
[06:47] <apokryphos> hi :)
[06:47] <nikkia> welcome to the new world of really annoying freenode hostmasks :P
[06:47] <ztonzy> evenin nikkia and apokryphos 
[06:48] <apokryphos> nikkia: oh? What's happened?
[06:48] <apokryphos> ztonzy: hey
[06:48] <nikkia> apokryphos: prefixed with N= and I= to indicate whether identd lookup failed or passed
[06:48] <nikkia> how that's 'better' than ~ vs no ~ is beyond me
[06:49] <apokryphos> heh; yeah, seems useless. And looks odd
[06:49] <nikkia> apokryphos: exactly, it catches my eye every damned time
[06:49] <nikkia> apokryphos: it looks like a freaking sendmail rule :P
[06:50] <nikkia> and, thank you very much freenode, i've spent the last 10 years trying to forget about sendmail.cf !!
[06:50] <apokryphos> nikkia: maybe that's their aim -- draw attention to the newbie in the channel
[06:50] <nikkia> apokryphos: except even non-newbies have N=
[06:51] <apokryphos> in other news, I had a record breaking 50-minute wait to see the doctor today :D. (usually over an hour)
[06:51] <nikkia> in fact, one might argue that the only people probably still using identd responses, are mirc users!
[06:51] <apokryphos> is there any point in doing it?
[06:51] <nikkia> apokryphos: none that i can see, identd was deemed useless about 10 years ago
[06:51] <apokryphos> mine connects, so so far so good :P
[06:52] <nikkia> apokryphos: as a security method, its completely hopeless
[06:53] <nikkia> its only vaguely less mind-numbingly stupid than 'are you who you say you are? (y/n)'
[06:53] <apokryphos> hehehe
[06:54] <nikkia> apokryphos: i'm still at a loss about my IPv6 'issue' btw
[06:54] <apokryphos> nikkia: still not resolved, eh
[06:54] <nikkia> apokryphos: i don't know if you saw this yesterday.... laptop has a 11g card that is connected to the modem *behind* its NAT...
[06:54] <nikkia> apokryphos: so it doesn't pick up radvd address because the modem/NAT isn't forwarding RA icmps
[06:55] <nikkia> apokryphos: now, that all makes sense, it doesn't see an address, as its not on the lan segment that radvd is broadcasting to, fair does
[06:55] <nikkia> what is odd, is that if i leave the card in the machine for about 5-6 hours, it picks up an address
[06:55] <apokryphos> which modem are you using now? The bulldog one?
[06:56] <nikkia> the only thing i can think of, is that its the default 'icmp only if matched to an active connection' rule in the firewall, that is forwarding *some* icmp packets if they seem to have an attached connection from a NAT'ed tcp/udp connection
[06:56] <nikkia> apokryphos: yeah, the actiontec
[06:57] <nikkia> and thinking about it, in all cases where its picked up the address over time, its been when i've had a ssh session left open and walked away
[06:57] <apokryphos> Networking is often a mystery to me. My random disconnections every few months are proof of that
[06:58] <nikkia> apokryphos: the one thing that really annoys me about the actiontec, is that there seems to be no way to write custom firewall rules
[06:58] <nikkia> it uses one of 4 scripts in /etc, but / is a RO filesystem
[06:59] <nikkia> part of the boot process *does* uncompress 'var.tar' to /var, which also contains a etc directory, and the 4 scripts, so i wonder if i can somehow update the var.tar with my own scripts, if it'll pick up on them
[06:59] <nikkia> erm, uncompress is the wrong word there, i guess, but ykwim
[06:59] <apokryphos> nikkia: do they not want you to configure it? That is annoying.
[07:00] <nikkia> apokryphos: its weird, and the 2 lowest rules are annoyingly 'not quite enough' and 'too much'
[07:00] <nikkia> eg, 'firewall.basic' blocks nothing
[07:00] <nikkia> firewall.low blocks 80, 25, etc
[07:01] <nikkia> i want 139 blocked, cos its not really very much fun looking at a /var/log/samba that contains 12,000 log files matching every freaking bulldog customer's IP/hostname :)
[07:01] <apokryphos> nikkia: really basic question, but in theory how does a firewall work?
[07:02] <nikkia> apokryphos: it looks at the TCP headers and either pulls the package out of the TCP/IP stack, or lets it pass through
[07:03] <_ash> Hi all
[07:03] <nikkia> apokryphos: in the case of iptables, it can do a few more things than those 2 actions
[07:03] <apokryphos> right
[07:04] <_ash> hecking for libXext... no
[07:04] <_ash> configure: error: We need a working libXext to proceed
[07:04] <_ash> Can someone help me for that ?
[07:04] <nikkia> but in the end, it boils down to DROP/REJECT or ACCEPT
[07:12] <nikkia> [17:51:18]  <nikkia> in fact, one might argue that the only people probably still using identd responses, are mirc users!
[07:12] <nikkia> [17:36:28]  ztonzy [I=sten@blender/artist/ztonzy]  has joined #kubuntu
[07:13] <ztonzy> nikkia: so ?
[07:14] <ztonzy> nikkia: I know they changed the ghosting, looks strange
[07:14] <ztonzy> but the I=  I dont know what it means
[07:15] <ztonzy> nikkia: aren't you a registered user ?
[07:15] <nikkia> N= no identd response, I= identd response
[07:15] <nikkia> ztonzy: yes, but i consider identd to be a broken thing thats not worth installing
[07:16] <ztonzy> uhmm..."worth installing" ? I haven't done anything more or less
[07:16] <ztonzy> just using Konversation as before
[07:16] <nikkia> in the days when everyone logged into a unix minicomputer and noone had network connected personal computers, it made sense, these days, its too fake-able to even consider trusting as the source of any information
[07:18] <ztonzy> if it has to do with autologin for nickserv, what's the odd with that ?
[07:18] <nikkia> it has nothing to do with nickserv per se
[07:18] <nikkia> it has nothing to do with anything really, which is why changing the hostmask format to N= and I= is stupid
[07:19] <nikkia> the presence, or absence, of identd responses doesn't tell you anything about the authenticity of the irc connection, when it was the default irc behaviour of ~ vs no ~ it was bearable, you just tune it out, but adding N= and I= to the start of hostmasks is to in your face to be annoying
[07:20] <nikkia> s/to/so/
[07:21] <nikkia> ztonzy: it'll be a wasted conversation, i can envision his response - most irc admins still hold on to some twisted universe where identd matters worth a damn
[07:21] <ztonzy> I asked the difference between N= and I=
[07:21] <nikkia> there are even networks out there that won't let you connect without 'valid' identd responses
[07:22] <nikkia> ztonzy: oh, i know the difference
[07:22] <nikkia> N= no identd, I= identd
[07:22] <ztonzy> apokryphos: me too
[07:22] <nikkia> the issue is how useful that information is, the answer is 'not at all'
[07:22] <ztonzy> nikkia: seems only those with special hostmask that gets I=  even if some are logged in to nickserv
[07:23] <nikkia> apokryphos: i suspect i'll end up writing a trigger in kvirc to rewrite them back to normal irc standard messages *sigh*
[07:23] <nikkia> ztonzy: that's NOT what the freenode webpage states
[07:23] <ztonzy> just noticed it on another user...maybe I am wrong :)
[07:23] <nikkia> it states that N= signifies no identd response, I= signifies identd response
[07:24] <nikkia> ie, what would have shown up as ~user@host  and user@host in standard irc message format
[07:24] <nikkia> it seems to be a pointless and irritating break from standard irc behaviour for no real purpose other than to annoy people
[07:25] <nikkia> it also breaks certain irc client's abilities to track 'same user' messaging
[07:25] <nikkia> s/client's/clients'/
[07:27] <nikkia> ztonzy: my point is this, the same functionality was already present, *and defined in the irc RFCs*, why introduce incompatibility and ugly hostmasks for something that already existed ?
[07:28] <ztonzy> nikkia: ok
[07:29] <nikkia> and you can quote me on that, if you're still discussing this with lilo :P
[07:29] <ztonzy> he hasn't replied yet, and I dont even think he will
[07:30] <nikkia> personally, i would have expected people running freenode to be a bit more respectful of RFCs
[07:30] <nikkia> pointlessly breaking the standards that all irc clients adhere to, for the same of 'fun' is something i'd expect from an MS-run irc server :P
[07:30] <nikkia> s/same/sake/
[07:38] <paines> hi
[07:48] <NamShubX> where is lxsplit? (what package?)
[07:55] <paines> any amd64 users compiled kde 3.4.2 and amarok against it ?
[08:44] <_guillaume> iop iop
[09:06] <xardias> hi
[09:07] <_gustav> What's up doc?
[09:11] <inetpro> Anything interestin happenin here today?
[09:12] <inetpro> Nee man, wat gaan aan?
[09:23] <benjamin1254> ne one have any good sugestions for a good distros that can play dvds or program that can?
[09:25] <uniq> kaffeine and mplayer both play dvds with the proper libs installed.
[09:25] <uniq> and xine too.
[09:27] <benjamin1254> which libs could u tell me which cuz i want to use my pc dvd player an watch my 20 dvds i bought
[09:29] <uniq> !restricted
[09:29] <ubotu> I guess restricted is http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats
[09:29] <uniq> libdvdcss2
[09:50] <benjamin1254> i tried it nd it came out with this error output:
[09:50] <benjamin1254> The source can't be read.
[09:50] <benjamin1254> Maybe you don't have enough rights for this, or source doesn't contain data (e.g: no disc in drive). (Error reading from DVD.)
[09:51] <benjamin1254> The source can't be read.
[09:51] <benjamin1254> Maybe you don't have enough rights for this, or source doesn't contain data (e.g: no disc in drive). (Error reading from DVD.)
[09:51] <benjamin1254> The source can't be read.
[09:51] <benjamin1254> Maybe you don't have enough rights for this, or source doesn't contain data (e.g: no disc in drive). (Error reading from DVD.)
[09:51] <benjamin1254> srry for posting 3 times i dident see it
[09:51] <benjamin1254> what went wrong?
[09:59] <Aapzak> good evening room
[09:59] <Aapzak> equex: how are you doing, got linux running nicely?
[10:00] <benjamin1254> i dont i have dvd issues
[10:00] <Aapzak> why?
[10:00] <benjamin1254> idk i installed the dvdrun library and so far it gets only so far and i get this
[10:00] <benjamin1254> The source can't be read.
[10:00] <benjamin1254> Maybe you don't have enough rights for this, or source doesn't contain data (e.g: no disc in drive). (Error reading from DVD.)
[10:01] <Aapzak> sounds like a HW problem
[10:01] <benjamin1254> what does it mean not nough rights
[10:01] <Aapzak> can you read the dvd directories?
[10:01] <benjamin1254> yes all of them
[10:02] <Aapzak> you know console and rights?
[10:02] <benjamin1254> i know what the console is but not the rights
[10:02] <Aapzak> which device is your dvd player?
[10:02] <benjamin1254> cdrom not cdrom1
[10:03] <benjamin1254> ...
[10:03] <benjamin1254> its my first cd rom device
[10:03] <Aapzak> lemme check my system
[10:04] <benjamin1254> k
[10:05] <Aapzak> you can read whats in de dvd, can you copy a (small) file to your homedir?
[10:06] <benjamin1254> umm idk... could u explain a bit more cuz im still a newbie at this
[10:06] <benjamin1254> :-S
[10:06] <Aapzak> well, how do you see whats on the dvd?
[10:06] <benjamin1254> i go through my kaffeine player
[10:07] <benjamin1254> and press dvd ... then it goes through and it gets so far then i get the error output
[10:07] <Aapzak> goed through what?
[10:07] <benjamin1254> kaffeine
[10:07] <Aapzak> do you ever get the idea even 1 bit can be read?
[10:07] <benjamin1254> nope
[10:08] <benjamin1254> its the name of th player
[10:08] <Aapzak> can you mount the dvd in your filesystem?
[10:08] <Aapzak> do you have an dvd icon on your desktop?
[10:08] <benjamin1254> yes
[10:09] <Aapzak> can you open it with a filebrowser and tell me what you see? I believe if you just click on the icon you should see whats on the disk
[10:09] <Aapzak> 1 left click on the dvd icon
[10:09] <benjamin1254> video_ts file
[10:10] <Aapzak> its a directory I think, click on it?
[10:10] <benjamin1254> ill click on it
[10:11] <Aapzak> you see files?
[10:11] <benjamin1254> no thats odd
[10:11] <Aapzak> yes, that is
[10:11] <Aapzak> does the disk work in any other player?
[10:11] <Aapzak> or did you never see it work?
[10:12] <Aapzak> please try a disk from which you know it actually has something on it
[10:12] <Aapzak> you're running kubuntu, right? Lemme get my laptop ...
[10:13] <benjamin1254> yes im running the KDE vversion
[10:13] <Aapzak> allright, getting kubuntu myself, I might be able to help you better, you prolly just did a basic install? so did I
[10:14] <benjamin1254> yes then i installed a cupple packages after it was working
[10:15] <Aapzak> I see no harm in that
[10:16] <benjamin1254> then this guy told me to install the dvd library
[10:16] <benjamin1254> i did the old and new
[10:17] <Aapzak> allright, I did not have a dvd icon on my desktop, I just created a link to a device. I mounted the dvd and now I can read whats in the disk, including the files in video_ts
[10:18] <Aapzak> if it is this easy, what happened on your install? prolly nothing and the dvd is empty?
[10:18] <benjamin1254> no i opened it ack up and now i can see my files
[10:18] <benjamin1254> but i tried the same thing and i got the same error output error
[10:19] <Aapzak> you opened that same dvd some other way and you see files?
[10:19] <benjamin1254> yes
[10:19] <Aapzak> thats weirs
[10:19] <Aapzak> d
[10:19] <benjamin1254> i right clicked hit open then clicked on the foler and i see them
[10:20] <seaLne> maybe it wasn't mounted? (sorry i missed the earlier part of your description of the problem)
[10:21] <Aapzak> it gets mounted when you left click on it, right?
[10:21] <seaLne> it should have
[10:21] <Aapzak> we all should shell access to each others machines :)
[10:21] <benjamin1254> yyes so u can help
[10:21] <benjamin1254> but idk how
[10:21] <Aapzak> idk?
[10:22] <benjamin1254> i dont know
[10:22] <benjamin1254> thats what it mean
[10:22] <benjamin1254> mens*
[10:22] <benjamin1254> means**
[10:22] <benjamin1254> man 72+ hrs of no sleep does alot
[10:23] <seaLne> maybe you should go to bed then :)
[10:23] <benjamin1254> nah im good
[10:23] <benjamin1254> i have been like this for weeks
[10:23] <Aapzak> yeah benjamin1254, whatcha still doing here?
[10:23] <benjamin1254> and so far no harm done
[10:23] <hater2win> yo
[10:24] <benjamin1254> so u wana remote desktop to my pc so u can figure things out?
[10:24] <Aapzak> you should not give me access :)
[10:24] <Aapzak> I'm not an expert ...
[10:24] <seaLne> or anyone you don't know :)
[10:24] <Aapzak> far from it even
[10:24] <benjamin1254> i know thats first things first in pc security
[10:25] <benjamin1254> but im dumb and let people do as they need for helpin me
[10:25] <jeffm> hey guys
[10:25] <dooglio> not dumb...just trusting
[10:26] <benjamin1254> too trusting if u ask me
[10:26] <Aapzak> I don't think I have the knowledge to help you
[10:26] <benjamin1254> :))
[10:26] <Aapzak> it's allright, you can trust most people
[10:26] <Aapzak> you can trust me, but I can't help you
[10:26] <benjamin1254> i trust u man....
[10:26] <benjamin1254> 110%
[10:26] <Aapzak> kewl
[10:26] <jeffm> i cant seem to login as root on my Kubuntu
[10:27] <Aapzak> you see what 72+ hours without sleep does to you? :)
[10:27] <benjamin1254> me eather thats why u do sudo
[10:27] <jeffm> i type su at the terminal, and it asks for my password
[10:27] <dooglio> heh
[10:27] <Aapzak> jeffm: correct
[10:27] <benjamin1254> yeh do SUDO
[10:27] <Aapzak> yeah
[10:27] <Aapzak> sudo su - :)
[10:27] <benjamin1254> then whatever else u need to do afterthat
[10:27] <dooglio> using sudo implies you have set it up correctly as root
[10:27] <seaLne> then its your own paswd you type
[10:27] <dooglio> a la visudo
[10:28] <Aapzak> dooglio: thats std in (k)ubuntu
[10:28] <jeffm> ok ill try it
[10:28] <benjamin1254> LMFAO STD
[10:28] <seaLne> benjamin1254: you wouldn't find it so funny if you got some :)
[10:29] <benjamin1254> true but i am still clean (sinless) so far
[10:29] <dooglio> Aapzak: you still have to add access rights for your non-priveledged user(s)
[10:30] <dooglio> that implies being able to log into root (or su) in order to run visudo
[10:30] <seaLne> yeah but the first user is setup
[10:31] <jeffm> ok, i type su, then when i put in my password, it doesnt appear as im typing anything in the terminal. but i type it anyway and press enter, then i get an authentication enter.
[10:31] <dooglio> or I guess add yourself to the admin group
[10:31] <Aapzak> thats what I mean, out of the box it works
[10:31] <seaLne> jeffm: use the command sudo instead of su
[10:31] <dooglio> does it automatically add your first user into the admin group?
[10:31] <jeffm> sudo then what
[10:32] <seaLne> sudo bash
[10:32] <Aapzak> dooglio: the first user is certainly added to some group that can sudi
[10:32] <Aapzak> sudo
[10:32] <seaLne> or whatever shell you want or you can just do sudo apt-get install foo etc
[10:32] <dooglio> jeffm: try sudo bash
[10:32] <jeffm> ok
[10:32] <Aapzak> I use sudo su -    is that wrong?
[10:33] <dooglio> no, it's not
[10:33] <dooglio> but i think jeffm lost his root password
[10:33] <Aapzak> we have no root passwd
[10:33] <jeffm> i know it
[10:33] <dooglio> ah
[10:33] <dooglio> i misread it
[10:33] <jeffm> ok, sudo bash worked
[10:33] <dooglio> i thought you just typed "su -"
[10:33] <dooglio> jeffm: cool
[10:33] <dooglio> now you're root
[10:34] <seaLne> sudo is just a different way so that you can restrict some users to run only certain commands as root
[10:34] <dooglio> you might want to change your root password at this point
[10:34] <dooglio> seaLne: yes
[10:34] <seaLne> dooglio: not neccessasry as he should just use sudo
[10:34] <jeffm> ok, im in a directory with a configure file. i type ./configure and it says no such file or directory
[10:35] <dooglio> seaLne: true, but there might be some reason he needs to log in as root
[10:35] <seaLne> is it maybe not executable?
[10:35] <dooglio> for example, in single user mode
[10:35] <seaLne> chmod u+x configure
[10:35] <nocloud> i am getting random lockups using kubuntu 5.04 and KDE 3.4.2 on my dell inspiron 6000 laptop....
[10:35] <dooglio> jeffm: are you sure you want to compile this project as root?
[10:35] <nocloud> does anybody know why i am getting these random freezes?
[10:35] <jeffm> yeah, ill show you what im trying to do
[10:36] <dooglio> hater2win: you need to add something like "--with-qt-includes=/usr"
[10:36] <dooglio> do "./configure --help | less" to find the exact command
[10:36] <jeffm> dooglio: http://linksys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/linksys.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=773&p_created=1084221483&p_sid=cQIIyvMh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NCZwX3Byb2RzPTAmcF9jYXRzPSZwX3B2PSZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX25sJnBfc2NmX2xhbmc9MSZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PWxpbnV4&p_li=&p_topview=1
[10:36] <seaLne> hwat are you trying to install?
[10:36] <dooglio> *sigh* we need a tinyurl bot on this channel
[10:36] <jeffm> lol
[10:37] <jeffm> the above link details what im trying to do
[10:37] <seaLne> should it me *C*ontinue? with a capital?
[10:38] <dooglio> also it looks like your "Configure" script as a capital "C" as well
[10:38] <dooglio> try ./Configure instead of ./configure
[10:38] <jeffm> ok
[10:39] <jeffm> lol thanks
[10:39] <hater2win> dooglio: i tried doing it with that command just now, but its still out of date, is there a repository package somewhere?
[10:39] <jeffm> didnt know it was case sensitive
[10:39] <dooglio> the wlan stuff: isn't that installed stock on [k] ubuntu?
[10:39] <jeffm> thanks guys
[10:39] <jeffm> yaw'll rock
[10:40] <dooglio> hater2win: sudo apt-get install libqt3-mt-dev
[10:40] <hater2win> jeffm: that reminds me of that time when i wrote a 2000 line program in C++ and had a seg fault... didn't know where though
[10:40] <dooglio> try that and see if it works
[10:40] <jeffm> hater2win: lol a single letter in the wrong case... LOL
[10:41] <seaLne> jeffm: have you tried using the kwireless tool?
[10:41] <hater2win> dooglio: i get this message now "libqt3-mt-dev is already the newest version."
[10:41] <seaLne> hater2win: that just means it was already installed
[10:41] <dooglio> hater2win: less config.log and see what the error is
[10:41] <dooglio> it's prolly failing for another reason
[10:42] <dooglio> also check for the presence of /usr/include/qt3
[10:43] <hater2win> . /usr/include/qt3 does in fact exist
[10:43] <jeffm> dooglio: ok, i got to the part with the Linux source directory [/usr/src/linux] , but it says that it is incomplete or missing
[10:44] <dooglio> you need to install the linux source tree
[10:44] <jeffm> sealane: yeah, but it says its disabled
[10:44] <hater2win> dooglio:  still the same error
[10:44] <jeffm> dooglio: how?
[10:46] <dooglio> hater2win: did you check the config.log file?
[10:46] <hater2win> dooglio: what am i looking for in there?
[10:46] <dooglio> the part where it is failing
[10:47] <dooglio> it's a BIG file, full of all kinds of noise
[10:47] <dooglio> but if you scroll down far enough, you should see the test code the configure script is trying to compile
[10:47] <dooglio> and the reaon why it failed
[10:48] <dooglio> jeffm: i don't think you should have to go through all of this
[10:48] <dooglio> there is a package for linux-wlan in unbuntu "linux-wlan-ng"
[10:49] <jeffm> ok
[10:49] <dooglio> try installing that
[10:49] <jeffm> but, i dont have internet on the comp with linux yet
[10:51] <hater2win> lol
[10:51] <hater2win> in part of the config file
[10:51] <hater2win> is part of the conversation
[10:51] <hater2win> that you guys were having
[10:51] <hater2win> thats crazy...
[10:51] <hater2win> config.log
[10:52] <dooglio> huh?
[10:52] <hater2win> lol
[10:52] <hater2win> in config.log
[10:52] <hater2win> it has messages that appeared here in IRC
[10:52] <hater2win> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
[10:52] <hater2win> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

[10:53] <hater2win> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" />
[10:53] <hater2win> <meta name="Generator" content="Kate, the KDE Advanced Text Editor" />
[10:53] <dooglio> jeffm: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToInstallTheWlanNgDriverInHoary?highlight=%28linux-wlan-ng%29
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[10:53] <hater2win> configure:1726: result: no
[10:53] <hater2win> configure:1697: checking for mawk
[10:53] <hater2win> configure:1713: found /usr/bin/mawk
[10:53] <hater2win> configure:1723: result: mawk
[10:53] <hater2win> configure:1733: checking whether make sets ${MAKE}
[10:53] <dooglio> jeffm: that link might help you build the driver you just downloaded
[10:53] <hater2win> configure:1753: result: yes
[10:53] <hater2win> configure:1901: checking for style of include used by make
[10:53] <hater2win> configure:1929: result: GNU
[10:53] <hater2win> [20:34]  &lt;-- xardias has left this channel. ()
[10:54] <hater2win> [20:35]  &lt;dooglio&gt; seaLne: true, but there might be some reason he needs to log in as root
[10:54] <hater2win> [20:35]  &lt;seaLne&gt; is it maybe not executable?
[10:54] <hater2win> [20:35]  &lt;dooglio&gt; for example, in single user mode
[10:54] <hater2win> [20:35]  &lt;seaLne&gt; chmod u+x configure</pre></body>
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[10:54] <hater2win> lol
[10:54] <hater2win> thats gotta be a security flaw
[10:54] <lgsobalvarro> hello aseigo 
[10:54] <seaLne> you probably just pasted it?
[10:54] <dooglio> hater2win: you might want to avail yourself of this next time: http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste
[10:55] <dooglio> hater2win: but that is wierd
[10:55] <hater2win> ah cool, will do
[10:56] <hater2win> lol, that was dumb
[10:56] <hater2win> http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/1383?_nevow_carryover_=1123534556.94127.0.0.10.36651557431
[10:56] <hater2win> there is what the config file has in it
[10:57] <dooglio> you don't need the junk past the ?, by the way
[10:57] <brk4> could someone give an opinion? acer aspire or hp pavilion laptop..
[10:58] <Blissex> brk4: you are quite mad...
[10:58] <Aapzak> :)
[10:58] <Aapzak> I'd go for IBM
[10:58] <Blissex> brk4: different models are manufactured by different companies, they are just ''badged'' like that.
[10:58] <dooglio> yeah
[10:58] <brk4> Blissex: did i ask that before? :)
[10:58] <Aapzak> brk4: you should see whats inside and how compatible it is with *nix
[10:58] <dooglio> i've had to pull my hair out getting certain things to work
[10:59] <Blissex> brk4: so you need to compare model-with-model,not brand-with-brand... 
[10:59] <brk4> dooglio: is linux running well with it?
[10:59] <dooglio> it runs pretty well
[10:59] <Aapzak> brk4: one hp is not the other
[10:59] <brk4> Blissex: im not comparing brands, im talking about the models in those ranges
[10:59] <Blissex> brk4: in general it works like this: if you got money, buy IBM or Toshiba high end.
[10:59] <brk4> dooglio: does wifi work?
[10:59] <dooglio> but i can't use the nvidia binary driver because it won't work on my laptop's video card
[10:59] <dooglio> and wifi does work, but i had to use ndiswrapper
[10:59] <Aapzak> please brk4 read the specs for both machines, chipsets, etc, 
[11:00] <Blissex> brk4: you dont get it -- those are not ranges, they are badges slapped on completely different machines from different manufacturers.
[11:00] <brk4> dooglio: does that work well?
[11:00] <brk4> Aapzak: im do
[11:00] <brk4> *i do
[11:00] <dooglio> which does work, but i can't install, say, 64-bit linux because i rely on ndiswrapper
[11:00] <Aapzak> dooglio: what wifi chip is in your laptop?
[11:00] <brk4> dooglio: so your 64 bit crippled just because of wifi?
[11:01] <Aapzak> brk4: no ndiswrapper with 64-bits, for nothing
[11:01] <brk4> Aapzak: wha?
[11:01] <Aapzak> well, appearantly dooglio has a wifi chip which needs a ndiswrapper, the laptop you want to buy not rely on that
[11:02] <Aapzak> might not rely
[11:02] <dooglio> hater2win: i found the problem
[11:02] <hater2win> doogli
[11:02] <dooglio> your command line argument is wrong: it should be --with-qt-includes=/usr/include/qt3
[11:02] <dooglio> not /usr/includes/qt3
[11:02] <brk4> could anyone recommend a good ibm laptop?
[11:02] <Aapzak> brk4: please post some specs here, and we might be able to give you advise, we can't do anything with 'hp' or 'acer'
[11:03] <brk4> thanks
[11:03] <brk4> ok
[11:03] <brk4> what do you think of this one then: http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/product_detail.do?product_code=EC356UA%23ABA&tab=detailed_specs&storeName=&landing=&category=&subcat1=&catLevel=#defaultAnchor
[11:03] <Aapzak> I can tell you that I have a ralink rt2500 wifi card which works like a charm
[11:04] <brk4> what laptop do you have?
[11:04] <Aapzak> dell, with pcmcia card
[11:04] <hater2win> dooglio: let me try it real quick
[11:04] <Aapzak> BTW, Ati sucks
[11:04] <brk4> ati graphics?
[11:04] <dooglio> Aapzak: i have a broadcom BCM4301 chipset
[11:05] <dooglio> brk4: ndiswrapper won't work under 64 bit linux
[11:05] <brk4> :(
[11:05] <brk4> linux sucks :p
[11:05] <dooglio> naw, broadcom sucks
[11:05] <Aapzak> can't see what wifi chip is used in that hp
[11:05] <dooglio> they won't release their chipset specs!
[11:05] <Aapzak> Texas instruments sucks too
[11:05] <Aapzak> very few wifi chips rock
[11:06] <hater2win> dooglio: it worked
[11:06] <brk4> how about this one then: http://www.laptopshop.co.uk/acer-aspire_5012_wlmi-laptop-3-n2.htm
[11:06] <hater2win> dooglio: do i have to do make install clean
[11:06] <Aapzak> they both have Ati graphics cards, I'm not a huge fan of Ati
[11:07] <brk4> whats the prob..? there are ati drivers arent there?
[11:07] <Aapzak> they both won't tell which chips they use
[11:07] <Aapzak> ati drivers suck generally
[11:08] <Aapzak> buying a complete machine can be quite a pain these days
[11:08] <brk4> well could anyone recommend a good laptop?
[11:08] <Aapzak> phone ... brb
[11:09] <dooglio> hater2win: sudo make install should install your application/library/whatever-it-is-you're-compiling
[11:10] <hater2win> k
[11:10] <nikkia> brk4: they're probably the same laptop in a different shell
[11:10] <nikkia> and probably both just as badly supported in linux, given the specs
[11:10] <nikkia> the dirty secret of the laptop industry is, that there is only about 4-5 manufacturers of laptops, everyone just buys and re-shells
[11:10] <nikkia> even apple's laptops are made by asus
[11:10] <nikkia> brk4: ati's drivers are a pain to get working on a desktop, the mobile radeon support is even worse
[11:10] <nikkia> brk4: plus, the wifi is probably going to be unsupported on those machines
[11:11] <X-CRiPt51> hey all
[11:11] <brk4> nikkia: well can you suggest anything better?
[11:12] <nikkia> brk, its very unlikely, given you seem to be a A64+ATI fan :P
[11:12] <brk4> nikkia: im open to suggestions of any make
[11:12] <brk4> *brand
[11:13] <bobesponja> http://www.wengofiles.teaser-hosting.com/wengophone/beta/wengophone_0.950-i386.deb hey all this is wengo kubuntus deb
[11:14] <bobesponja> its like skype only GPL and uses SIP
[11:14] <bobesponja> try it out
[11:15] <brk4> nikkia: im not a fan just the ones i saw seemed to have ati. just suggest one :p
[11:15] <nikkia> brk4, thats probably becuase you've only been looking at athlon 64 laptops
[11:16] <brk4> nikkia: well isnt athlon 64 good?
[11:16] <buz> sure its good
[11:16] <Aapzak> centrino rocks
[11:16] <buz> but ati chipset sucks
[11:16] <nikkia> which almost all seem to be ATI IGP based, and that is terrible for support under linux
[11:16] <buz> under linux anyway
[11:16] <nikkia> even the proprietary drivers don't work, apparently
[11:16] <nikkia> at least for 3d
[11:17] <buz> if you can find a athlon notebook with another chipset, go for it
[11:17] <brk4> i mean heres an ibm one.. but the specs seem to suck in comparison: http://www.laptopshop.co.uk/ibm-thinkpad_r50e_ur0j9uk-laptop-2-n2.htm
[11:17] <nikkia> buz, tbh, i'm not sure i'd recommend A64 at all to a newbie
[11:17] <buz> mhh doesnt mean he needs to use kubuntu64 right away
[11:17] <buz> i ran x86 on mine
[11:17] <nikkia> buz, he'll try tho, they all do
[11:18] <nikkia> then they come here and complain
[11:18] <brk4> basically, could someone list the things to avoid when looking for a laptop?
[11:18] <buz> well, i'm not a newbie per se and so I didnt ;)
[11:18] <nikkia> 'where's wine!' 'where's the win32codecs!' etc
[11:18] <buz> brk4: any chipset without linux support
[11:18] <buz> dell
[11:18] <buz> you're best bet is a ibm thinkpad
[11:18] <brk4> when you say chipset.. you mean graphics card?
[11:18] <buz> there's readily configured debian for those
[11:18] <brk4> ibm thinkpads seem to suck
[11:18] <buz> every chipset, really
[11:18] <brk4> spec wise
[11:19] <buz> graphics, sound, wlan, north and southbridge
[11:19] <buz> then maybe hp (tho i think their stuff sucks)
[11:19] <buz> but at least they offer linux on some notbeook
[11:19] <brk4> who hp?
[11:19] <brk4> so maybe a hp pavillion with an nvidia chipset?
[11:20] <buz> if that exist, that might help
[11:20] <buz> i dont think those are good notebooks but hp has linux on some of them
[11:20] <nikkia> acer make some nvidia based laptops too
[11:20] <buz> check which are offered with linux 
[11:20] <buz> acer is about as crap as it get
[11:20] <nikkia> buz, hp's linux support is a joke
[11:20] <buz> i thought they got linux preinstalled on some of them
[11:20] <nikkia> buz, it usually involves ripping out the optional wifi, etc
[11:20] <buz> just not in the us
[11:20] <nikkia> buz, yes, they do, but only with specific configs, usually without wifi
[11:21] <brk4> buz: acer is crap?
[11:21] <buz> mhh that sucks
[11:21] <buz> i got acer screens.
[11:21] <buz> let me tell you this, my 17" lcd got replaced 3 times in as many years
[11:21] <buz> every time they replaced it the next day after i called though
[11:21] <buz> their notebooks cases seem to bend under slight pressure
[11:21] <buz> (my 20" acer lcd is perfect tho)
[11:22] <brk4> buz: what would be your favourate brand?
[11:22] <buz> it used to be ibm
[11:22] <brk4> and now?
[11:22] <nikkia> brk4, if you're willing to risk acer, the aspire 1520 is A64 + nvidia
[11:22] <buz> well i'm not so sure about that whole lenovo deal
[11:22] <buz> acer isnt bad per se, it's just your run of the mill low end cheap stuff
[11:22] <brk4> nikkia: risk..? are acer bad?
[11:23] <nikkia> personally, i've had 'reasonable' experience with acer
[11:23] <buz> yeah
[11:23] <nikkia> but buz seems to think they're lousy :)
[11:23] <buz> you get what you pay for
[11:23] <brk4> they're cheap?
[11:23] <buz> no my 20" lcd is just fine
[11:23] <brk4> someone was telling me the opposite
[11:23] <brk4> "top quality"
[11:23] <buz> the 17" might have been a crappy line
[11:23] <nikkia> brk, as i said, it really doesn't matter, to a large degree
[11:23] <buz> (remember, i bought both because they were cheap)
[11:23] <nikkia> there are only a handful of laptop makers around the world
[11:23] <buz> yes
[11:23] <brk4> ok
[11:24] <buz> quanta and asus
[11:24] <buz> asus make nice gear
[11:24] <nikkia> buz, and ibm
[11:24] <buz> but not cheap
[11:24] <buz> as does samsung
[11:24] <buz> there ain't no such thing as ibm laptop
[11:24] <brk4> if you all had the choice of a brand new laptop right now what would you go for?
[11:24] <buz> and haven't been for a few years now
[11:24] <nikkia> buz, not anymore, no
[11:24] <buz> asus or samsung, probably
[11:24] <buz> not sure about linux support though
[11:24] <nikkia> buz, asus are pretty anti-linux
[11:24] <buz> if you got too much cash, also look at sony and toshiba
[11:24] <nikkia> but if you buy smart, you'll be ok
[11:24] <brk4> ok
[11:25] <buz> my a8v delux works just fine
[11:25] <brk4> what makes that?
[11:25] <benjamin1254> nikkia explain why auses boards r so anti linux
[11:25] <buz> of course i intentionally bought via kt800
[11:25] <nikkia> benjamin1254: asus refuse to release specs on some of their own stuff
[11:25] <nikkia> well, all of their own stuff
[11:25] <buz> i dont think asus boards are any more anti linux than others
[11:25] <nikkia> benjamin1254: there 'we build X's reference design' stuff works fine
[11:26] <nikkia> its just when asus do their own designs, or add their own stuff, they refuse to support linux
[11:26] <buz> as i say, a8v works charmingly
[11:26] <nikkia> buz, thats just a reference design job tho
[11:26] <brk4> nikkia: would you buy this? http://www.laptopshop.co.uk/acer-aspire_1524_wlmi-laptop-4-n2.htm
[11:26] <buz> most boards are these days
[11:26] <brk4> buz: what about the wifi?
[11:26] <buz> graphics should work
[11:26] <nikkia> brk, i'm not in the market for a laptop, but it looks alright
[11:26] <buz> same for chipset
[11:26] <buz> dunno about wifi
[11:27] <buz> havent cared for notebooks in a logn time
[11:27] <buz> i tell everyone to buy ibooks
[11:27] <buz> (not really good quality but at least they dont come bugging me about broken XP9
[11:27] <brk4> buz: what you think of this one?  http://www.laptopshop.co.uk/acer-aspire_1524_wlmi-laptop-4-n2.htm
[11:27] <buz> as i say, i dont know about wifi much
[11:28] <buz> i think all wifi can be used with ndiswrapper today. but i could be wrong and in any case, it's an ugly hack
[11:28] <buz> i'd get an ibm
[11:28] <buz> "Integrated Acer InviLink? 802.11g Wi-Fi CERTIFIED solution; supporting Acer SignalUp wireless technology "
[11:28] <buz> whatever that means
[11:29] <nikkia> apparently, that acer's wifi will work in 64bit mode with linuxant, or it'll work in 32bit with ndiswrapper
[11:29] <brk4> sweet
[11:29] <brk4> im willing to pay linuxant
[11:29] <buz> don't all of the drivers work with ndiswrapper?
[11:29] <buz> in 32 bit mode anyway
[11:29] <nikkia> buz, not all, no
[11:30] <buz> mhh i thought they would, based on what it does
[11:30] <jeffm> hey guys
[11:30] <nikkia> buz, depends if the driver does any sneaky tricks, some do, apparently
[11:30] <buz> but i'm not really up to notebooks really
[11:30] <buz> i suggest to take a look on samsung offereing
[11:30] <buz> not cheap, but well built and some really cool stuff there
[11:31] <buz> the 17" centrino is fucking gorgeous
[11:31] <nikkia> or you could just forget about the internal wlan, and buy a 15 card that has known support :)
[11:31] <ray_> you guys are going to br mad at me
[11:31] <jeffm> im trying to install some themes on KDE but when i run the configure file in the terminal, i keep getting no acceptable c compiler
[11:31] <ray_> be*
[11:31] <brk4> nikkia: ya?
[11:31] <brk4> nikkia: are there supported ones available?
[11:31] <nikkia> jeffm, sudo apt-get install build-essential
[11:31] <nikkia> brk4, yes
[11:32] <jeffm> will it work if im not connected to the internet?
[11:32] <nikkia> jeffm, no
[11:32] <jeffm> damn
[11:32] <brk4> do that so :(
[11:32] <brk4> *:)
[11:32] <brk4> well thanks for the advice all
[11:32] <brk4> later
[11:32] <jeffm> ok, im on another computer. i have my laptop running kubuntu here beside me
[11:32] <nikkia> brk4, my acx111 card works perfectly, given a tiny annoying work-around for a pcmcia issue
[11:33] <nikkia> brk4, and my handful of prism based 802.11b cards work flawlessly
[11:33] <jeffm> i can transfer files onto my mp3 player then onto the laptop
[11:33] <jeffm> is there a theme installing app anywhere?
[11:33] <nikkia> jeffm, i think build-essential is a meta package, so its not going to be that easy
[11:34] <nikkia> jeffm, no, you need the C compiler installed, and you'll probably need kde-dev installed too
[11:34] <jeffm> damn
[11:34] <jeffm> ok so i really need internet then
[11:34] <nikkia> jeffm: its going to be a fairly sizable dl too, probably somewhere around 50-75MB at a guess
[11:34] <Aapzak> I'm back, did brk4 order a laptop allready?
[11:34] <jeffm> ok, ill work on getting internet
[11:35] <Aapzak> nikkia: I hate the acx111, could not get it to work properly, I bought another card :)
[11:35] <nikkia> Aapzak: was the pcmcia chipset yenta?
[11:35] <Aapzak> dunno, 
[11:35] <nikkia> Aapzak: it works fine on mine, but ONLY if i disable 32bit pcmcia access
[11:35] <jeffm> my laptop also has S-video out, but when i plug it into a tv the picture is black and white and distorted
[11:35] <Aapzak> it was a linksys card, with texas instruments acx111 on it
[11:35] <nikkia> otherwise it fails to upload the firmware about 75% of the time
[11:35] <jeffm> any way to fix that?
[11:36] <nikkia> jeffm, yes, its set to the wrong TV standard
[11:36] <Aapzak> I had firmware uploading issues, 
[11:36] <nikkia> jeffm, there should be a bios setting for PAL vs NTSC
[11:36] <jeffm> where?
[11:36] <Aapzak> nikkia: you have answers for everything?
[11:36] <nikkia> Aapzak: setting the pcmcia mode to 16bit in the acx makefile would probably have solved it then :)
[11:36] <nikkia> jeffm, in the bios somewhere
[11:36] <jeffm> yes nikkia does ok, leave her alone
[11:36] <jeffm> where can i find that?
[11:36] <Aapzak> ow nikkia where were you when I needed you?
[11:37] <nikkia> IN....THE.....BIOS
[11:37] <Aapzak> jeffm: :)
[11:37] <jeffm> where can i find the bios
[11:37] <Aapzak> oops
[11:38] <Aapzak> jeffm: you don't know how to get into your bios?
[11:38] <nikkia> jeffm, reboot it and press   DEL, F2, ESC, F12    or other random keys until you get a menu
[11:38] <nikkia> DEL is most common, F2 second most common...
[11:38] <buz> or read what it says
[11:38] <nikkia> buz, might not work
[11:38] <buz> even dell says what to press
[11:38] <nikkia> buz, officially, my toshiba doesn't have a hardware bios
[11:38] <Aapzak> yeah, it might be written somewhere in the screen
[11:38] <buz> oh yeah
[11:38] <Aapzak> hey buz, keep it nice, Dell is pretty OK
[11:38] <nikkia> buz, officially, you're supposed to use a windows util to access the bios
[11:38] <buz> compaq had software bios for a long time
[11:39] <nikkia> buz, unofficially, if you cram the keyboard buffer on boot, it fails and goes to bios :)
[11:39] <Aapzak> I hate that
[11:39] <buz> i dont think you could actually get into the bios really
[11:39] <jeffm> ok
[11:39] <buz> Aapzak: you must have a different definition of nice than i do
[11:39] <Aapzak> :)
[11:39] <nikkia> you get 'Keyboard failure, press F2 to enter bios'
[11:39] <Aapzak> smart
[11:39] <nikkia> (but F2 does NOT enter the bios normally, before anyone suggests it)
[11:40] <Aapzak> thats a hack
[11:40] <buz> i wont buy toshiba then
[11:40] <nikkia> Aapzak: it works :)
[11:40] <Aapzak> jeff, you see the bios?
[11:40] <Aapzak> hacking is OK, if done this way
[11:40] <nikkia> Aapzak: and due to a bug in the speedstep, its the only way to reset the CPU speed back to 650MHz if it decides to slow the CPU down :)
[11:40] <jeffm> also when i connect another monitor to the laptop, it doesnt appear in the cisplay properties
[11:40] <jeffm> im restarting now
[11:40] <Aapzak> lol @ speedstep
[11:41] <seaLne> (not amd64 but looks very nice) http://www.inmac.co.uk/catalogue/item/TOSNBL05
[11:41] <nikkia> Aapzak: if you leave the laptop alone, it'll eventually step down to 150MHz CPU core, at which point, it will never speed back up to full speed :)
[11:41] <nikkia> Aapzak: so you have to reboot, go to bios, and reset the cpu speed control from manual, to auto, to manual :)
[11:41] <Aapzak> stupid thing, funny :)
[11:41] <Aapzak> pretty annoying
[11:42] <buz> what kind of braindeadness is that
[11:42] <Aapzak> who's fault is that, linux? hardware?
[11:42] <nikkia> Aapzak: no, it did it in windows too
[11:42] <buz> that would be areason for me to return the thing
[11:42] <nikkia> although windows was never bearable on its slow-poke S3 ProSavage
[11:42] <Aapzak> can you configure speedstep not to go lower than a certain Mhz?
[11:42] <buz> obviously, it doesnt do what's advertised and thus has to be replaced
[11:42] <nikkia> (which btw, has no working linux drivers)
[11:42] <nikkia> Aapzak: no
[11:43] <nikkia> buz, its about 5 years old :)
[11:43] <Aapzak> terrible, 
[11:43] <buz> mhh prosavageddr works nicely with kubuntu
[11:43] <nikkia> buz, not on an IX/MX
[11:43] <buz> original prosavage i dont have
[11:43] <nikkia> buz, the IX/MX will just corrupt display with the prosavage drivers
[11:43] <Aapzak> I don't have speedstep, do you gain much from it in linux?
[11:43] <nikkia> Aapzak: no
[11:44] <Aapzak> so just don't compile it in the kernel and you're home free?
[11:44] <nikkia> Aapzak: it might be useful on 'silly clock speed' notebooks when you don't want a red hot lap :)
[11:44] <buz> but just about every via igq chipset is a different  core with different drivers
[11:44] <buz> they are crazy, really
[11:44] <buz> anyway, i'm off to bed
[11:44] <Aapzak> sleep well buz 
[11:44] <nikkia> Aapzak: no, the speed step on my toshiba activates even if its disabled, sometimes
[11:44] <buz> mhh maybe
[11:44] <buz> i'll dream of killing lawyers, probably
[11:45] <_shawn> her when trying to install amarok I get this checking for X... configure: error: Can't find X includes. Please check your installation and add the correct paths! I'm pretty sure I need some x dev packages anyone know which one(s)
[11:45] <_shawn> *hey
[11:45] <buz> trying to install or trying to compile?
[11:45] <_shawn> compile
[11:45] <buz> run apt-get build-dep amarok
[11:45] <Aapzak> got sued buz?
[11:45] <buz> mhh over not paying bills for stuff that doesnt work, yes
[11:45] <buz> happens occasionally
[11:46] <Aapzak> kewl
[11:46] <Aapzak> it's a good cause
[11:46] <buz> only this time its a foreign court pressuring me to pay
[11:46] <Aapzak> which country?
[11:46] <buz> always something new i guess
[11:46] <_shawn> thanks buz
[11:46] <buz> court from germany, whereas i'm switzerland
[11:46] <buz> i'm thinking about counter suit
[11:47] <buz> but it's too much trouble, i'll just tell them to stick it where the sun doesnt shine for now
[11:47] <Aapzak> so the court is protecting the one who sold non-working stuff?
[11:47] <buz> well they claim it worked
[11:47] <benjamin1254> anyone know how to fix theis error? 
[11:47] <benjamin1254> The source can't be read.
[11:47] <benjamin1254> Maybe you don't have enough rights for this, or source doesn't contain data (e.g: no disc in drive). (Error reading from DVD.)
[11:47] <Aapzak> sure
[11:47] <buz> only what they dont know, i wasnt even 18 when i bought it, 4 years ago
[11:47] <buz> (gotta be pretty crazy to sue someone over 200eur after 4 years, really)
[11:47] <Aapzak> so they got to sue your parents
[11:47] <buz> yeah good luck with that muahah
[11:47] <Aapzak> lol
[11:48] <buz> they can say they didnt approve of the order and the case gets thrown out
[11:48] <buz> as i say, i'm partly laughing, partly angry at the lawyer
[11:48] <Aapzak> yours or theirs?
[11:48] <buz> theirs
[11:48] <buz> i dont get a lawyer for crap like that, really
[11:48] <nikkia> usually when it gets 'too hot' by some fluke of nature (ie, the fan control being s***)
[11:48] <nikkia> toshiba are not on my list of products to buy in the future :)
[11:48] <nikkia> altho they are still higher up than NEC and Sony :)
[11:48] <nikkia> my NEC laptop had the worst design flaw *ever*
[11:49] <nikkia> if you unplugged the power, or the power failed and it ticked over to battery, i know, crazy concept on a laptop, it would dive the drive heads into the disk platter, corrupting data until the drive wouldn't work anymore
[11:49] <nikkia> we went thru 4 drives in under a year on that laptop
[11:49] <benjamin1254> HOLEY BALLS
[11:49] <Aapzak> lol @ both of you
[11:49] <nikkia> ouch, that was nasty lag
[11:49] <buz> i'm mostly treating this as learning experience
[11:49] <buz> i still didnt manage to ever go to court
[11:50] <buz> and i got sued about three times in the last three years
[11:50] <buz> they invariably gave up before going to court
[11:50] <Aapzak> so you're trying but not succeeding :)
[11:50] <buz> yes
[11:50] <buz> it'd be something to put on my CV ;)
[11:50] <Aapzak> don't give up, you'll get there
[11:50] <buz> i presume i will
[11:50] <buz> eventually
[11:50] <Aapzak> lol
[11:51] <buz> rationally, i should just pay the 200? (i dont care much for that amount)
[11:51] <buz> but OTOH, i'm trying to make a poitn
[11:51] <Aapzak> yeah, could get expensive if you lose
[11:51] <buz> nah i wont lose
[11:51] <buz> swiss court is gonna throw them out in no tim
[11:51] <Aapzak> I don't think so either
[11:51] <buz> i even got people who can testify it didnt work
[11:52] <buz> besides, good luck in proving i ordered something on the web
[11:52] <Aapzak> btw, what was it that did not work, can you share that with us?
[11:52] <buz> 3 domains
[11:52] <Aapzak> how can they not work?
[11:52] <buz> they put in the wrong nameservers and didnt fix it after 3 mails from me
[11:52] <buz> which is 2 mails too much,r eally
[11:52] <Aapzak> yes
[11:52] <buz> one i could understand
[11:53] <buz> 2 barely, 3 not at all
[11:53] <Aapzak> no
[11:53] <buz> as is ay
[11:53] <Aapzak> I work for a company that screws up the same way sometimes, I don't believe you can treat your customers like that
[11:53] <buz> as i say, my case is bulletproof
[11:53] <buz> (id just pay if it werent)
[11:54] <Aapzak> prolly
[11:54] <Aapzak> so you'll sleep well :)
[11:54] <buz> yes
[11:54] <buz> in fact, i'm beginning to think i should sue THEM for damages, really
[11:54] <Aapzak> I think you could
[11:54] <buz> of cours ei could
[11:54] <buz> i just dont care muh
[11:55] <Aapzak> I don't like the whole sueing business
[11:55] <buz> i'll sue counter if they try to sue me in a real couirt (i.e. one that actually affects me)
[11:55] <buz> neither do it
[11:55] <buz> i
[11:55] <buz> lawyers are among the lowest scum on earth
[11:55] <Aapzak> it's not in the spirit of Ubuntu :)
[11:55] <buz> well i'm not fundamentalist
[11:55] <buz> i use some nonfree stuff
[11:56] <Aapzak> ohhhh
[11:56] <Aapzak> ;)
[11:56] <Aapzak> I try not to, I just don't want nonfree stuff to have a large userbase :)
[11:57] <Aapzak> but sometimes you might have to
[11:57] <Aapzak> I never installed KDE until Trolltech announced a licence change to GPL, now I'm totally in love with KDE
[11:58] <Aapzak> anyway buz, you were off to bed ... sleep well!
[11:59] <lluka> hey i'm having trouble with my vid card still, its saying "pci mode" right now, but its an agp card :/
[11:59] <buz> well without mplayer and flash, the web is somewhat daft
[11:59] <Aapzak> nikkia: @ work we have a lot of Toshiba's that die from harddisk failure
[11:59] <buz> anyway, you're right, off i go ;)
[11:59] <lluka> anyone know howw to tell it that its agp?
[12:01] <Aapzak> lluka: I can't help you
[12:06] <nikkia> s/updates/renews/
[12:06] <nikkia> til 2010
[12:06] <nikkia> frankly, i'm sick of worrying about remembering it each year :P
[12:06] <pax> jeeez I was waiting for it to drop! (jk)
[12:06] <pax> what is it anyway
[12:07] <nikkia> pax, i know people were, which is why i was getting worried about it expiring next month
[12:07] <Aapzak> nikkia.com?
[12:07] <nikkia> pax, i've had about 10 offers to buy the domain, and 2 that simply said 'i'll get it if you let it lapse!'
[12:07] <Paradiu1> How do I use the document feeder capability for my HP Officejet 7410?
[12:07] <nikkia> i just ignore them all :P
[12:08] <pax> why dont you seel if the price is right
[12:08] <nikkia> pax, i know what the price is, around $10,000
[12:08] <pax> sell*
[12:08] <_frank> nikkia: what domain?
[12:08] <nikkia> i'd rather keep the domain i've had for 10 years
[12:08] <Paradiu1> How do I use the document feeder capability for my HP Officejet 7410?
[12:08] <Aapzak> nikkia: what is your domainname?
[12:08] <pax> must be a good name then
[12:08] <nikkia> pax, its sadly close to one of the RIAA member company's names
[12:09] <_frank> nokia
[12:09] <pax> ah that explains it then
[12:09] <_frank> nikia
[12:09] <nikkia> frank, no
[12:09] <Larry_Wall> How do I use the document feeder capability for my HP Officejet 7410?