[12:03] <blueyed> mxpxpod: I cannot see a problem in your screenshot.
[12:09] <seth_k> the fonts are too big
[12:09] <seth_k> mine has the same issue, except the menu fonts have the same problem
[12:10] <Mez> seth_k, is this like - firefox fonts too big?
[12:11] <seth_k> Mez, indeed
[12:11] <seth_k> Mez, it's been an issue ever since 1.0.6
[12:11] <seth_k> I can screenshot mine if you like
[12:11] <Mez> seth_k, hehe :D It's fine in the hoary version though
[12:11] <Mez> seth_ nah
[12:11] <Mez> http://dev.kubuntu.org.uk/~mez/screenies/
[12:11] <Mez> there should be one in there
[12:12] <Mez> I managed to fix the webpage text, but not menus
[12:12] <seth_k> ah, good show mez
[12:12] <seth_k> that's what I get
[12:12] <ajmitch> morning
[12:12] <seth_k> hiya ajmitch
[12:12] <Mez> seth_k, ;)
[12:13] <Mez> seth_k, whatever happened to that package you were meant ot be uploadingto revu
[12:13] <seth_k> Mez, am just going to request a Debian synch instead... the debian zsnes package is fine
[12:14] <Mez> seth_k, you was on about a package that wasnt zsnes
[12:14] <seth_k> oh right
[12:14] <seth_k> still working on it
[12:14] <seth_k> can't get the menu items to work right, but other than that almost done
[12:30] <lakin> This is most certainly the wrong channel to ask in, but I can't find anywhere else to ask:  Will openoffice 2.0 stabalise fast enough for inclusion into ubuntu breezy? 
[12:31] <crimsun> that's really an OOo question.
[12:31] <crimsun> they're most certainly more in the know than we are
[12:32] <crimsun> I'm not even sure there's an answer to that
[12:32] <lakin> Definitely, but I haven't found a dev channel, and mailing lists are slower.
[12:32] <lakin> So if that doesn't happen, breezy will downgrade openoffice to 1.1.4?
[12:32] <crimsun> no, it will ship with whichever version is currently in Breezy when Breezy freezes.
[12:33] <lakin> ouch, so it could ship with the beta version?
[12:34] <crimsun> (Is software ever not in beta?)
[12:35] <crimsun> if it's of concern, help iron out the bugs in the version in Breezy :)
[12:35] <lakin> I am.
[12:35] <lakin> ;)
[12:36] <crimsun> well there ya go
[12:36] <lakin> Re, software perpetually in beta: true.
[12:37] <xerox> Google services :)
[12:38] <lakin> It's just that I've finally convinced an office I work with to switch to ubuntu/openoffice, and I'm trying to plan the timeline appropriately.
[12:39] <lakin> I was supposed to go in tonight to install openoffice win32, so that we could do some initial testing runs with their current spreadsheets, and then eventually switch to openoffice before the christmas season.  Then January 06 we were to switch to ubuntu, I was planning on breezy, but this does change things. :)
[12:40] <lakin> I want the version of openoffice to be similar for win32 and breezy. but with OO.o 2.0 still in beta I think waiting a bit is in order.
[12:40] <lakin> Anyways, this definitely isn't the channel for this discussion.  Thanks crimsun.
[12:40] <mxpxpod> blueyed: you can't?? firefox's application font is bigger than the panel font
[12:41] <mxpxpod> seth_k: have you figured out what's up with firefox?
[12:42] <blueyed> mxpxpod: oh, i see. no idea though. using kde here. sorry.
[12:43] <mxpxpod> seth_k: it's like firefox isn't paying attention to gnome's dpi setting
[12:44] <seth_k> mxpxpod, happens for me on KDE too
[12:46] <mxpxpod> yeah, I don't use KDE ;)
[12:47] <seth_k> yep, just saying that it's not a gnome-specific problem :)
[12:48] <mxpxpod> ah, ok
[12:48] <mxpxpod> maybe it's a firefox problem with X dpi settings...
[12:48] <mxpxpod> I dunno
[12:48] <mxpxpod> I should probably report it later tonight
[12:55] <bur[n] er> ./topic ...X is a lot less broken >> but not yet bootable ;)
[12:59] <seth_k> really? boots for me
[12:59] <seth_k> with all updates
[01:00] <bur[n] er> yeah, i have all my updates... possibly issue with certain video drivers or something?
[01:00] <bur[n] er> you didn't change anything but just upgraded & dist-upgraded ?
[01:05] <JanC> mxpxpod : firefox has its own dpi settings
[01:06] <JanC> about:config --> browser.display.screen_resolution
[01:06] <JanC> or also in the preferences
[01:07] <Lathiat> JanC: what are those values supposed to be
[01:07] <Lathiat> ah i see, the dpi
[01:09] <JanC> I think it's set to 96 by default
[01:10] <Lathiat> doesnt help the sites that set font sizes in px 
[01:10] <Lathiat> which is many
[01:10] <xerox> It's 0 here.
[01:10] <seth_k> 0 here too
[01:11] <Lathiat> yeh which would end up being 96 most likely
[01:11] <xerox> You could also try echo "Xft.dpi: 96" >> ~/.Xresources and rerun the X server.
[01:11] <Lathiat> all the prefs seems to think its "system setting" but mine doesnt reflect that
[01:11] <JanC> it's 96 here, but it's possible I changed that
[01:11] <Lathiat> xerox: or xrdb ~/.Xresources and restart the browser
[01:11] <xerox> Lathiat, right.
[01:12] <seth_k> but even setting it doesn't change the menu fonts
[01:12] <seth_k> not to mention that Thunderbird has the same problem
[01:12] <Lathiat> yeh
[01:13] <xerox> It did for me, I had a Xft.dpi: 100 setting for some reason, when I finally commented it out all turned back OK.
[01:13] <JanC> right, it's 0 by default in firefox
[01:14] <JanC> "0" probably means : use system default
[01:14] <xerox> Prolly.
[01:14] <seth_k> oh, I didn't see the .Xresources suggestion. I'll try that now
[01:15] <seth_k> nah, I don't even have that file
[01:15] <xerox> Create it.
[01:16] <xerox> That is: echo "Xft.dpi: 100" > ~/.Xresources
[01:16] <Kamion> elmo: please sync cccc from unstable (gcc 4 build fixes)
[01:16] <xerox> Then, as Lathiat said: xrdb ~/.Xresources  and restart the browser.
[01:17] <seth_k> no go
[01:17] <seth_k> menus still huge
[01:18] <xerox> Put the monitor more distant :P
[01:18] <seth_k> ah well, will be fixed in time i'm sure
[01:18] <seth_k> hehe
[01:18] <seth_k> it's a 20.5" flatscreen
[01:18] <seth_k> across the room, still huge
[01:18] <seth_k> ;)
[01:19] <xerox> You're rich.
[01:19] <seth_k> negative
[01:19] <seth_k> I paid less than $50 for it, all said and done
[01:20] <seth_k> $800 - 40% off - $60 coupon - $100 coupon - $50 coupon - $15 coupon - $200 from selling my old 17" flatscreen
[01:20] <seth_k> woot
[01:20] <seth_k> I stalk Dell
[01:21] <Lathiat> haha
[01:22] <xerox> Open a bug for the person opening duplicate bugs.
[01:22] <Lathiat> heh
[01:22] <Lathiat> open a bug about bugzilla being broken :)
[01:37] <Kamion> Riddell: I'd suggest rebuilding kynaptic against the new apt ABI
[01:40] <Mez> Kamion-  just a rebuild?
[01:41] <Mez> I'll do it and pass it onto Riddell
[01:41] <Mez> I need something to do
[01:42] <Kamion> I think just a rebuild should be fine, but try a test build first
[01:48] <Kamion> though adding support for the new progress API to kynaptic would be even better
[01:49] <Kamion> builds fine, I haven't tried running it
[01:54] <Kamion> anyone looking at this aspell transition pain in main?
[01:58] <Kamion> hmm, never mind, I'll do it
[02:03] <doko> Kamion: all new dictionaries should be synced from unstable. it's on my monitor, but sync requests on the weekend don't reach elmo's radar
[02:13] <Kamion> doko: ok, if you're on it that's fine
[02:33] <lamont> scrollkeeper-update -p /var/scrollkeeper -o /build/buildd/eog-2.11.90/debian/eog//usr/share/omf/eog
[02:33] <lamont> Could not create directory /var/scrollkeeper : Permission denied
[02:33] <lamont> Could not create database.  Aborting update.
[02:33] <lamont> Cannot write to log file: /var/log/scrollkeeper.log : Permission denied
[02:33] <lamont> Cannot write to log file: /var/log/scrollkeeper.log : Permission denied
[02:36] <Kamion> seems more like eog's fault for feeding scrollkeeper-update a bogus path?
[02:38] <Kamion> cjwatson@jackass:/srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com/sync/germinate/output$ grep xlibmesa supported.seed
[02:38] <Kamion> xlibmesa3                           | xorg                            | Supported seed | Ubuntu X Maintainers <ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>                                  |          171368 |             268
[02:38] <Kamion> (among others)
[02:38] <Kamion> but I removed that from the supported seed several days ago ...
[02:42] <Kamion> ah, light dawns, that's the Edubuntu seed
[02:51] <mxpxpod> JanC, xerox, seth_k, Lathiat: that resolution setting in firefox doesn't fix it... could it be that GNOME is reading a different setting for dpi than firefox?
[03:32] <tseng> it could be
[03:32] <tseng> i think gtk/pango with cairo is now reading X for dpi
[03:32] <tseng> and not the gnome font setting
[03:33] <tseng> i would assume firefox gets it from gtk
[03:33] <mxpxpod> tseng: all of my GNOME apps read it from gnome
[03:33] <tseng> Kamion: that package even exists?
[03:33] <tseng> its been empty for some time, i thought we finally killed it
[03:34] <Kamion> mono-assemblies-arch | 1.1.7-0ubuntu9 |        breezy | amd64, i386, powerpc
[03:34] <Kamion> ah, no longer built
[03:34] <tseng> right, its gone
[03:34] <Kamion> but something still depends/build-depends on it
[03:35] <tseng> i cant think of anything that ever depended on it
[03:35] <Kamion> d'oh, guys, it's in the supported seed :-P
[03:35] <tseng> eh, besides that
[03:35] <tseng> lets kill it please.
[03:35] <tseng> thanks :)
[05:30] <Lathiat> mxpxpod, xerox, seth_k, JanC: firefox in breezy doesnt pay attention to DPI like its supposed to, works fine in deer park, even setting DPI within firefox screws up
[05:30] <seth_k> Lathiat, word
[05:30] <seth_k> Lathiat, gimmie Firefox 1.5 for Breezy then :P
[05:30] <Lathiat> filing a bug
[05:30] <seth_k> awesome
[05:31] <seth_k> cross-file for Thunderbird; it has the same problem
[05:31] <Lathiat> thunderbird works fine for me
[05:31] <seth_k> really? let me check again
[05:31] <Lathiat> im on 120 dpi
[05:31] <Lathiat> and thunderbird comes up right
[05:31] <Lathiat> same as deer park alpha 2
[05:31] <seth_k> nope, its menus are huge for me :/
[05:31] <Lathiat> firefox does not
[05:31] <Lathiat> seth_k: hrm well im going the other way
[05:31] <Lathiat> i want them bigger
[05:32] <Lathiat> havent tried makign it <96
[05:32] <seth_k> hmmm
[05:32] <seth_k> For me, it's just that they're not the same size as my other KDE menus
[05:32] <seth_k> i want them consistent
[05:32] <Lathiat> hrm i set dpi to 72
[05:32] <Lathiat> and thunderbird still looks like 120
[05:32] <Amaranth> hey, is deer park not dying every 10 minutes today?
[05:32] <Lathiat> Amaranth: wfm(tM)
[05:33] <Lathiat> from the other day
[05:36] <seth_k> Lathiat, ah ha... I'll bet it's a KDE thing. Because Gaim has big fonts too. So maybe Firefox is broken for all, but all GTK apps are broken for KDE
[05:37] <Lathiat> well
[05:37] <Lathiat> i use gnome
[05:37] <Lathiat> and set the DPI in the gnome capplet
[05:39] <daniels> it's probably a pango/xft thing
[05:39] <daniels> er, pango/cairo
[05:40] <Lathiat> daniels: ah, would make sense
[05:41] <seth_k> yeah, I'm getting cairo warnings on all my GTK apps... they all crash when I try to bring up any menu
[05:41] <seth_k> gaim, synaptic, anything
[05:41] <Lathiat> wfm
[05:41] <seth_k> maybe a KDE thing again?
[05:41] <Lathiat> switch to gnome and find out :)
[05:42] <seth_k> hehe, yeah, I'll boot a second session real fast
[05:43] <jdub> kde doesn't set XSETTINGS
[05:43] <jdub> though fcrozat wrote a patch for mdk
[05:45] <Lathiat> blah, some stupid stories get on slashdot, whinging about google caching images of some nuclear thing in australia, when to get an image or page removed from google is a rather simple process.
[05:46] <bob2> except it's pointless
[05:47] <bob2> since the layout of lucas heights is well-known
[05:47] <Lathiat> uhuh
[05:47] <Amaranth> Lathiat: err, they're talking about google maps
[05:47] <bob2> and it's easy to get in, as demonstrated by a hundred greenpeace people in toxic-waste-barrels who overran the compex last year
[05:47] <Amaranth> i thought
[05:47] <seth_k> Lathiat, found it
[05:47] <Lathiat> Amaranth: oh? didnt get that by reading it
[05:47] <seth_k> Lathiat, it crashed in gnome too, so I removed gtk2-engines-gtk-qt
[05:47] <bob2> oh, and the people who absailed off the reactor itself
[05:47] <seth_k> and no more crashes :)
[05:48] <Amaranth> bob2: holy shit, 100 greenpeace people got into a nuclear plant?
[05:48] <Amaranth> seth_k: gtk-qt engine and cairo don't get along
[05:48] <ajmitch> Amaranth: it's .au, they don't worry about things like security
[05:48] <seth_k> Amaranth, bug-worthy or does gtk-qt just get scrapped in favor of something else now?
[05:48] <bob2> it's not a "nuclear plant" it's a "half-arsed research reactor"
[05:48] <Amaranth> afaik this is a known issue and won't be getting fixed any time soon
[05:48] <bob2> we went on a school excursion to inside the containment building
[05:48] <ajmitch> bob2: research only, isn't it?
[05:49] <bob2> yeah
[05:49] <bob2> and making radioactive stuff for hospitals
[05:50] <Lathiat> anyone who wants that kind of info is likely to be able to get it anyway
[05:50] <Lathiat> you can get anything for the right price
[05:50] <mdz> ogra: I don't know what your issue is with ssh/ldm; it worked for me the last time I was able to try it (I need X fixes now)
[05:52] <bob2> haha, nsw health has a plan for distributing iodine after an accident to people living near the reactor
[05:52] <Lathiat> whats iodine do?
[05:53] <bob2> helps stop uptake of some radioactive isotopes in the body
[05:53] <ajmitch> Lathiat: avoids absorption of the radioactive iodine, iirc
[05:53] <jdub> Lathiat: helps a bit against radiation poisoning
[05:53] <Lathiat> ah
[05:54] <daniels> mdz: which X fixs do you need?
[05:54] <jdub> ALL OF THEM
[05:55] <jdub> it's like in movies, where the bad guy says KILL THEM ALL
[05:55] <daniels> heh
[05:56] <seth_k> is the bug that prevents me from CTRL+ALT+F#'ing to a different session from X?
[05:56] <seth_k> or is it not X-related
[05:56] <Lathiat> that works for me now
[05:57] <daniels> that works
[05:58] <seth_k> I'm 100% up-to-date and it's still a no go for me, something manual I need to do?
[05:58] <Amaranth> seth_k: reinstall xkbutils and xkeyboard-config
[05:59] <seth_k> ah
[06:00] <daniels> seth_k: see my mail to ubuntu-{devel,users}
[06:00] <jdub> $ dpkg -L xutils
[06:00] <jdub> /.
[06:00] <jdub> /usr
[06:00] <jdub> /usr/share
[06:00] <jdub> /usr/share/doc
[06:00] <jdub> /usr/share/doc/xutils
[06:00] <jdub> /usr/share/doc/xutils/copyright
[06:00] <jdub> /usr/share/doc/xutils/NEWS.Debian.gz
[06:00] <jdub> /usr/share/doc/xutils/changelog.Debian.gz
[06:00] <jdub> 
[06:01] <daniels> jdub: feature, not a bug
[06:01] <jdub> serious lack of xmkmf, however
[06:01] <daniels> jdub: think of it as encouragement to use something sensible
[06:01] <jdub> ok, that is not a useful answer
[06:01] <Amaranth> mkmf?
[06:01] <Amaranth> err, xkmf
[06:01] <Amaranth> bleh
[06:01] <Amaranth> stupid name
[06:01] <Amaranth> what is it?
[06:02] <jdub> stupi build tool
[06:03] <mdz> daniels: on my laptop, X generated a configuration which gave me DefaultDepth 1
[06:03] <Lathiat> mdz: haha
[06:03] <Lathiat> jdub: need a mozilla extensions? :)
[06:03] <Lathiat> -s
[06:04] <daniels> mdz: nice one
[06:04] <daniels> mdz: still radeon hardware?
[06:04] <jdub> not when 'just works' would be more satisfying
[06:04] <mdz> daniels: yep
[06:04] <jdub> daniels: so...?
[06:04] <Lathiat> hrm, two mirrors just broke their universe Packages.gz at the same time. :\
[06:04] <mdz> daniels: in an ltsp scenario, I get a syntactically invalid X config file (extra EndSection), though it's possible that that's some sort of NFS or unionfs weirdness.  I haven't looked into it
[06:06] <daniels> mdz: i can't see any possibility for extra EndSections in dexconf
[06:06] <daniels> jdub: 'later'.  difficult problem.
[06:06] <daniels> mdz: can you please clag me the output of sudo xresprobe radeon in /msg?
[06:07] <Lathiat> jj
[06:07] <Lathiat> daniels: is xresprobe supposed to show somethign up in freq:
[06:07] <jdub> daniels: later being before we ship breezy with stuff in universe not building?
[06:07] <daniels> Lathiat: on laptops, no
[06:07] <Lathiat> daniels: ok
[06:07] <daniels> jdub: probably, yes
[06:08] <Lathiat> daniels: also when you get a chance can you send an email about what to do with gl and glu deps?
[06:09] <daniels> Lathiat: ok
[06:09] <Lathiat> daniels: cheers
[06:14] <TerminX> daniels: hey.. I noticed the Xorg binary is still in xserver-xorg instead of xserver-xorg-core, defeating the whole purpose of moving all the stuff in the first place.  packaging error?
[06:17] <daniels> TerminX: 'tis but a symlink
[06:18] <TerminX> are you sure about that?
[06:18] <TerminX> the package is almost 300k
[06:18] <TerminX> seems kind of large for a symlink and nothing else really in it
[06:18] <Lathiat> lathiat@archer:~$ du -sh /usr/share/doc/xserver-xorg
[06:18] <Lathiat> 228K    /usr/share/doc/xserver-xorg
[06:18] <TerminX> oh
[06:18] <TerminX> wtf then
[06:19] <Lathiat> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 17 2005-08-06 02:15 /usr/bin/Xorg -> ../X11R6/bin/Xorg
[06:19] <TerminX> never mind then
[06:19] <Lathiat> :)
[06:19] <TerminX> I sure feel dumb now
[06:19] <Lathiat> heh
[06:20] <Lathiat> 'sok, we all have our dumb moments
[06:21] <TerminX> aye..
[06:21] <TerminX> say, can someone try to replicate a bug for me?
[06:22] <TerminX> open synaptic, click a package, hold shift, hold the down arrow to select a bunch of them
[06:22] <TerminX> X locks for me if I do such a thing
[06:22] <TerminX> X also locks if I right click in synaptic and tell it to mark a package for upgrade
[06:23] <Lathiat> X locks or the synaptic window locks
[06:23] <TerminX> I ssh in from another machine and see X using all the CPU
[06:23] <Lathiat> works for me
[06:23] <TerminX> wtf
[06:23] <TerminX> I wonder where the problem lies on my end then
[06:23] <Lathiat> strace it, see what its doing
[06:24] <Lathiat> it'l be spinning on something
[06:24] <bob2> spin, sping sugar.
[06:25] <jamesh> trace the app too
[06:26] <jamesh> it might be doing something stupid
[06:31] <TerminX> Lathiat: http://pastebin.com/331734
[06:47] <mdz> Riddell: libqt3-mt-dev seems to be currently in conflict with x-window-system-core; would you look into it?
[07:10] <daniels> probably xlibmesa-gl vs libgl1-xorg hilarity
[07:16] <mdz> daniels: have any other l-r-m bug reports come in since .12 went up?
[07:19] <daniels> mdz: not that I've seen
[07:31] <pitti> Good morning!
[08:09] <glick> excuse me does anyone know how i can set it so that only the sudo user can shutdown the computer and it asks for the password?
[08:09] <bob2> you mean "how do I get rid of the shutdown and restart options from the gnome logout dialog"?
[08:10] <glick> yeah
[09:12] <doko> pitti: is there a way to determine all the country specific locales in a language support pack?
[09:18] <pitti> doko: you mean language-pack-*? not right now, apart from grepping Contents.gz
[09:44] <Mithrandir> pitti: do we have the latest fixes for clamav incorporated?
[09:44] <Mithrandir> 13:22 < Mithrandir> hm, anybody know the status of the remote buffer overflows in clamav?
[09:44] <Mithrandir> 13:31 < tseng> Mithrandir: last with a CVE is 2004
[09:44] <Mithrandir> 13:44 < Mithrandir> tseng: see http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?group_id=86638&release_id=344514
[09:44] <Mithrandir> 13:44 < Mithrandir> "Changes in this release include fixes for three possible integer overflows in libclamav"
[09:45] <pitti> Mithrandir: I didn't deal with that since it is universe; can we sync from debian?
[09:47] <Mithrandir> pitti: possibly.  And I think we should get clamav into main, it's fairly crucial for mail servers. :-)
[09:49] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[09:49] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:50] <jdub> yo seb128 
[10:00] <nmsa> regards!
[10:01] <Amaranth> whee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[10:02] <nmsa> got a few questions: I need to build a app that will autodetect the pcmcia slot and dd -if=/pcmica -of=/file and then dd back to a new pcmcia 
[10:03] <nmsa> I am builing it for users that are not familiar with linux and not able to find which and what devices to be used
[10:17] <mdke> daniels, around?
[10:24] <seb128> elmo, Kamion_: is libsoup2.2-8 waiting on NEW?
[10:53] <doko> pitti: ping?
[10:53] <pitti> doko: pong
[10:53] <doko> pitti: when you import locale data from rosetta into the language packs, are the language pack source packages updated with the new data?
[10:54] <pitti> doko: yes (but I don't do that yet)
[10:55] <doko> pitti: so I assume, it's ok, if I don't do that as well for OOo?
[10:55] <seb128> do we have any ftpmaster around?
[10:59] <pitti> doko: I don't do it because rosetta output still doesn't work, but as soon as it does, I will
[11:00] <pitti> Hi carlos! back in spain?
[11:00] <carlos> pitti, no, waiting at London
[11:00] <carlos> pitti, btw, hi
[11:01] <seb128> hey carlos
[11:01] <seb128> carlos: is the import done? 
[11:01] <doko> pitti: ok, so you build the source package first, and upload that one? on which machine do you do this?
[11:01] <carlos> seb128, it should
[11:01] <carlos> still downloading mail
[11:02] <seb128> carlos: could thanks. How was you trip?
[11:02] <carlos> seb128, anyway, the language packs needs a script run on production, and it depends on Stuart (our DB admin) being online and I think it will not happen until tomorrow
[11:02] <carlos> seb128, it was not too long, but I didn't sleep enough :-(
[11:03] <seb128> carlos: pitti rolled some language-packs so that's not why I ask, I ask because I'm waiting for that to send a mail about the french translations and the l10n list ... no point to translated non-imported po that will only confuse people
[11:03] <carlos> seb128, hmm, if you can wait until the script is run is better
[11:04] <pitti> doko: on rookery
[11:04] <carlos> seb128, so the data is 100% fixed
[11:04] <seb128> carlos: just ping me when that's ready, thanks :)
[11:04] <carlos> seb128, count with that
[11:04] <pitti> doko: yes, langpack-o-matic takes the data tarball, and creates/updates the langpack source packages
[11:05] <pitti> doko: then I can test them, and if everything works, I upload
[11:06] <doko> pitti: and carlos provides you with the language data on rookery?
[11:06] <carlos> pitti, did you send me a spec update?
[11:07] <mxpxpod> what ever happened to xev?
[11:07] <pitti> doko: currently I build the data on my own from the tarballs that are stripped on the buildds
[11:08] <Amaranth> mxpxpod: It was terminated with extreme prejudice.
[11:08] <Amaranth> or whatever they say in stupid action movies
[11:08] <pitti> doko: later I will download them from maswan probably
[11:08] <pitti> carlos: doko did, I didn't yet; will do today
[11:08] <mxpxpod> Amaranth: what?? that sucks...
[11:08] <Amaranth> pfft, who needs xev?
[11:09] <carlos> pitti, yeah, I got doko's changes already. Ok, thanks. I need that spec finished to start the implementation as soon as possible. as I said, language packs will be my main task this week
[11:09] <mxpxpod> Amaranth: is there an alternative?
[11:10] <\sh> hmmm....did anybody had a look on http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/k/knet/0.6beta1-1ubuntu3/knet_0.6beta1-1ubuntu3_20050807-1512-amd64-failed.gz from yesterday?
[11:11] <\sh> very strang thing
[11:11] <Amaranth> segfault?
[11:14] <mxpxpod> holy cow... peter jennings died
[11:14] <Amaranth> :/
[11:15] <jsgotangco> yep
[11:16] <Kamion> seb128: libsoup> yes
[11:16] <Kamion> pitti: hmm, is there any chance that language-support-* could get fixed installability-wise today?
[11:17] <pitti> Kamion: yes, it's on today's agenda
[11:17] <Kamion> good, thanks
[11:17] <seb128> Kamion: can you accept it or do we have to wait for elmo?
[11:17] <pitti> Kamion: sudo apt-get --dry-run install language-support-de works fine
[11:18] <pitti> Kamion: is there any way I can debug this without actually installing everything?
[11:18] <Kamion> seb128: done
[11:19] <Kamion> pitti: try it from a freshly debootstrapped chroot
[11:19] <pitti> Kamion: I need to update the dependencies for oo.o2 anyway
[11:19] <Kamion> pitti: also, aspell-* is broken; doko said he was working on that, and that it was basically just waiting for syncs
[11:19] <seb128> Kamion: thanks
[11:20] <Kamion> pitti: I'm more worried about the openoffice.org-thesaurus-* thing than aspell-*, since that impacts language-support-en and therefore contributes to ubuntu-live being uninstallable
[11:20] <pitti> Kamion: I'm more concerned about my bandwidth, but I have another idea
[11:20] <pitti> Kamion: I have the latest amd64 dvd
[11:20] <Kamion> you also don't have to actually install everything
[11:21] <Kamion> as above, dry-run is fine, you just need to not have any obsolete/local packages installed or universe enabled
[11:21] <pitti> Kamion: so I already have all debs, I just need to fix X on my amd64 install
[11:21] <seb128> pitti: apt-get install complains before downloading when there is b0rkage
[11:21] <seb128> s/is/is some/
[11:21] <pitti> ok, thanks
[11:22] <pitti> as I said, it works fine on my breezy
[11:22] <pitti> but I have universe, I'll disable that
[11:22] <Kamion> you probably have packages outside main installed, or some packages not up to date
[11:22] <seb128> maybe you have some packages installed here not available to install atm :p
[11:22] <seb128> s/:p//
[11:22] <pitti> openoffice.org-l10n-de | 1.1.4-5ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main Packages
[11:23] <pitti> hm, shouldn't that be universe now?
[11:23] <pitti> anyway, I try in a chroot
[11:28] <Kamion> pitti: language-support-de still depends on openoffice.org-l10n-de, so it can't be demoted
[11:28] <pitti> ah, that way
[11:28] <doko> Kamion, pitti: we don't have a thesaurus yet for OOo2
[11:30] <Kamion> it should be removed from language-support-*, presumably
[11:32] <Lathiat> freenode are stupid
[11:32] <Lathiat> whats with the I= and N=
[11:32] <Lathiat> ~[user]  is like tried and true and works fine
[11:33] <ajmitch> Lathiat: it's there to annoy us
[11:33] <ajmitch> and supposedly provide new features sometime
[11:39] <Lathiat> mvo: can synaptic detect a cd with packages and prompt to install them automatically?
[11:39] <pitti> carlos: I'm editing doko's edited spec now and mail it to you. I have some bug fixes and clarifications
[11:39] <janimo> lamont, xfce4-terminal is not in the archives although it built successfully. the list file says [uncomplied] 
[11:39] <mvo> Lathiat: update-notifier can do this
[11:39] <pitti> Lathiat: it does already
[11:39] <Lathiat> as in a custom cd
[11:39] <mitsuhiko> ogra: is hwdb.ubuntu.com down?
[11:39] <Lathiat> and where can i find out what magic to do if so
[11:40] <mvo> Lathiat: if it looks like a ubuntu cd it will offer to add it or upgrade from it. no more support (right now) than that
[11:40] <Lathiat> mvo: ok so i cant have a cd with custom packages and get them installed?
[11:40] <ogra> mitsuhiko, yes, i'm working on some things there
[11:40] <carlos> pitti, ok, thanks. It should appear soon at wiki.launchpad.canonical.com so I will dump it there and point you there to any update.
[11:40] <ogra> should be up again
[11:41] <mitsuhiko> ogra: ok. but its not dead
[11:41] <ogra> nah :)
[11:41] <mitsuhiko> thx :)
[11:42] <mvo> Lathiat: sort of, you can automatically upgrade from such a cd (but it may complain loudly because your cd is probably not authenticated with a trusted apt key)
[11:42] <Lathiat> mvo: right but for that to be of any use i'd have to like override ubuntu-desktop or something, which is bad
[11:42] <Lathiat> and the trusted key thing
[11:42] <mvo> carlos: would it be possible to get language-selectors pot file imported into launchpad? 
[11:43] <carlos> mvo, is it inside a .deb package?
[11:43] <mvo> Lathiat: yes. what is your goal here? what would your cd do?
[11:43] <carlos> mvo, if it is, when it's imported into Ubuntu's archive it should be imported automatically
[11:43] <Lathiat> mvo: install an application
[11:44] <mvo> carlos: yes, it's in language-selector, but it's universe right now, may this be the problem?
[11:44] <Lathiat> say, a custom application of my own, or, a set of ubuntu packages 
[11:44] <mvo> Lathiat: right. it would be easy enough to add support to install whatever is on the cd
[11:44] <Lathiat> mvo: right, thatd be cool, but its not there now?
[11:45] <mvo> Lathiat: no, you can only upgrade and "add" the cd right now. for more, please file a whishlist bug against update-notifier
[11:45] <carlos> mvo, no, it will not appear as part of language packs
[11:45] <Lathiat> mvo: ok, thanks
[11:45] <carlos> mvo, but it still should be available from Rosetta
[11:46] <carlos> mvo, if it does not appears, send me an email and I will check it manually
[11:46] <mvo> carlos: ok, I'll check again and mail you (if needed). thanks!
[11:47] <carlos> mvo, ok, thanks
[11:47] <carlos> seb128, 99 .po files left to be imported 
[11:48] <seb128> carlos: k
[11:48] <seb128> carlos: 99 errors or that's WIP?
[11:49] <carlos> seb128, I think those have errors, because only one file was imported after 8 hours
[11:49] <carlos> I will debug it tomorrow, when I'm back in Spain
[11:56] <seb128> carlos: k
[11:59] <Kamion> daniels: I have a few changes backed up behind the libgl1-xorg-dev fix; if you can let me know roughly when it'll land, that'd be cool
[12:07] <Mez> hmm is it ok to re-do a package to get rid of arch stuff?
[12:07] <Kamion> if it came from Debian that way, please leave it alone
[12:07] <Kamion> we don't need more spurious diffs
[12:07] <Kamion> if it was part of an Ubuntu change, generally yes
[12:07] <Lathiat> arch stuff?
[12:08] <Mez> yeah
[12:08] <Mez> debian/{arch}
[12:08] <Mez> et etc
[12:08] <Mez> Kamion: not too sure if It came from debian that way
[12:08] <Mez> but it's in the debdiff
[12:08] <Mez> diff.gz*
[12:10] <Mez> ah yes it obv did come from debain
[12:10] <Mez> debian *
[12:10] <Mez> it hasnt got an ubuntu *
[12:20] <zyga> mvo, hello
[12:20] <mvo> hey zyga 
[12:21] <zyga> mvo, I've got new pl.po for update-manager
[12:21] <mvo> zyga: nice! against cvs? or current breezy version?
[12:21] <zyga> against cvs
[12:22] <zyga> I'm not sure where I should fetch my source ...
[12:22] <mvo> zyga: cvs is unfortunately probably not going to make it for feature freeze :(
[12:23] <zyga> mvo, is the apt module available in breezy's python? I wasn't able to run cvs version
[12:24] <mvo> zyga: yes, I uploaded it on friday
[12:24] <mvo> cvs should work now (there where some api changes in the apt module)
[12:24] <GOGILOLik> http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830 http://www.pizdec.net/download-video.php?videos=42830
[12:28] <zyga> mvo, I've got some extra patches related to i18n as before
[12:35] <mvo> zyga: nice, please send them to me
[12:37] <zyga> mvo, ASAP
[12:44] <elmo> rm /etc/wifi-radar.conf
[12:44] <elmo> could that ever be right in a prerm?
[12:47] <janimo> elmo, xffm4 is NEW please help it pass into the build, thanks
[12:51] <zyga> mvo, what is POTFILES.skip for?
[01:00] <zyga> mvo, mail away
[01:17] <|rockinnerd|> is customizing the kubuntu livecd the same as customizing the Ubuntu livecd?
[01:20] <Riddell> |rockinnerd|: yep
[01:22] <|rockinnerd|> Riddell, thx
[01:22] <|rockinnerd|> i assumed, b/c it's just ubuntu with kde and not gnome
[01:23] <Riddell> |rockinnerd|: yep
[01:25] <|rockinnerd|> i've tried customizing it (sry if i'm in the wrong channel with this question,) but i ended up with an ISO image that's too large, what's the limit in the chroot environment on space?
[01:25] <Mez> Riddell, did you get that link I posted for kynaptic?
[01:33] <elmo> daniels: ?
[01:33] <pitti> Kamion: sorry, I don't get it. I have a clean breezy dchroot with ubuntu-base and -standard installed, and I try "aptitude install ubuntu-desktop language-support-en": this works fine
[01:34] <pitti> Kamion: is there any way to get some more detail from your testing output?
[01:40] <Riddell> Mez: yep
[01:40] <Riddell> top of the todo list now Mez :)
[01:41] <Kamion> pitti: no, not really
[01:41] <pitti> Kamion: ok, I just review them manually, nevermind then
[01:42] <Kamion> pitti: I'm trying a fresh chroot now, but it failed for me yesterday
[01:42] <Kamion> pitti: try apt-get rather than aptitude
[01:43] <pitti> Kamion: assuming that it would barf before the Y/n ack, it works
[01:43] <Kamion> what's in sources.list?
[01:43] <ruben1> on the main inclusion queue: does the fact that networkmanager is listed under deferred mean that we won't see it in breezy?
[01:43] <Kamion> and, what arch?
[01:44] <ruben1> or just that it's horribly broken but still a goal
[01:44] <pitti> Kamion: just "deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 5.10 _Breezy Badger_ - Alpha amd64 (20050802)] / breezy main restricted"
[01:44] <pitti> Kamion: however, that's the latest amd64 dvd
[01:44] <Kamion> better test by debootstrapping from the archive
[01:44] <pitti> Kamion: some packages are a little out of date now
[01:45] <Kamion> or debootstrap using the DVD as a source, but install further packages from the archive
[01:47] <pitti> it doesn't really upgrade much, but let's see...
[01:47] <pitti> aaah
[01:48] <pitti>   language-support-en: Depends: aspell-en but it is not going to be installed
[01:48] <pitti> so that's just the aspell issue
[01:48] <Mithrandir> hm, why is ooo suddenly the default for .txt files?
[01:49] <Kamion> pitti: only on amd64; try an i386 chroot and you'll see the OOo thesaurus issue too
[01:49] <Kamion> because amd64's still on OOo1 so it doesn't exhibit that problem
[01:49] <Kamion> I sent you mail about it
[01:49] <pitti> ok, thanks
[01:49] <Kamion> (last week or so)
[01:50] <pitti> ok, I currently update the oo.o deps anyway
[01:55] <pitti> doko: hm, so ooo2 doesn't have any help/thesaurus/hyphenation packages?
[01:59] <doko> pitti: the help packages need java for the build, but don't build with the free java
[02:01] <rburton> fabbione: there?
[02:05] <mr_mojo> hi
[02:05] <mr_mojo> is there any screenshots of the oem installer?
[02:07] <Kamion> not to my knowledge
[02:07] <Kamion> and it's really REALLY not ready for screenshotting for documentation or what-have-you
[02:07] <rubenv> hmm, I can't seem to find anything about networkmanager in the breezy goals meeting irc log
[02:07] <mr_mojo> i was just curious to what it looks like
[02:07] <rubenv> is it still a goal?
[02:08] <Kamion> infinity wasn't at that meeting, and NetworkMagic is currently his goal
[02:09] <Kamion> so there wasn't a lot of point discussing it
[02:09] <rubenv> it's not yet deferred till breezy+1?
[02:10] <Kamion> I don't believe so, although it's getting close to the wire
[02:10] <rubenv> would be an awful shame
[02:10] <rubenv> Too bad I need this laptop for work and had to downgrade to hoary
[02:10] <mr_mojo> wait - ooo2 isn't going to be in breezy?
[02:11] <Kamion> mr_mojo: you're misinterpreting overlapping conversations.
[02:11] <mr_mojo> oh ok.
[02:13] <User666>  http://www.videopilot.net/download-video.php?videos=42823 cool site free video, muzik(russian)
[02:13] <User666>  http://www.videopilot.net/download-video.php?videos=42823 cool site free video, muzik(russian)
[02:14] <User666>  http://www.videopilot.net/download-video.php?videos=42823 cool site free video, muzik(russian)
[02:14] <zyga> why does pylint depend on python2.3-pylint instead of python2.4-pylint?
[02:15] <elmo> err, does someon know a freenode oper they can complain to about these damn spammers?
[02:17] <_d4vid> User666, russian ? 
[02:17] <_d4vid> :p
[02:19] <rburton> fabbione: is there such a think as debug kernel images for breezy?  i'm using oprofile and it wants an uncompressed kernel image
[02:20] <Amaranth> you can build one
[02:20] <rburton> i can, but i'd prefer not too
[02:20] <Amaranth> but a 'debug' kernel would be 150MB
[02:20] <Amaranth> so they aren't in the archives
[02:20] <rburton> i think its happy with an uncompressed image
[02:20] <rburton> oh why can't oprofile read the compressed images  :)
[02:21] <Amaranth> bitch to rml? :P
[02:21] <rburton> ha
[02:21] <User666>  http://www.videopilot.net/download-video.php?videos=42823 cool site free video, muzik(russian) http://www.videopilot.net/download-video.php?videos=42823 cool site free video, muzik(russian) http://www.videopilot.net/download-video.php?videos=42823 cool site free video, muzik(russian)
[02:23] <rburton> Amaranth: i don't think i need a debug build, just an uncompressed one
[02:31] <Mithrandir> *sigh
[02:31] <Mithrandir> doko: why does ooo2-writer require python-uno?
[02:32] <Mithrandir> oh, joy.
[02:34] <martink> Mithrandir,  the email merge script is written in python ( http://blogs.linux.ie/caolan/2005/07/05/email-mailmerge/ )
[02:35] <doko> elmo: please sync from unstable: aspell-de aspell-it aspell-cy aspell-de-alt aspell-en aspell-es aspell-el aspell-fr aspell-ga ispell-gl aspell-is ispell-lt aspell-pl aspell-sk aspell-sl aspell-ukr aspell-uz
[02:35] <Mithrandir> martink: I'm trying to get ooo2 packaged for amd64, but I'm not sure we want to go down this road at all.. it would require packaging up the 32 bit python
[02:36] <doko> Mithrandir: did you check the amd64 packages I did build?
[02:36] <Mithrandir> doko: no, not yet.  I'm pondering whether just sticking with them would be the better choice, since I don't think doing ooo2-amd64 is realistic
[02:38] <doko> Mithrandir: it's the question, if they are stable enough. what would be unrealistic about ooo2-amd64?
[02:38] <Mithrandir> doko: having a 32 bit python alongside the 64 bit one, for a start.
[02:39] <Mithrandir> doko: can you give me the URL again?
[02:39] <doko> Mithrandir: that's a binary and some modules, not more
[02:40] <martink> Mithrandir, I'm sure that the mailmerge script could be disabled easily
[02:40] <janimo> rburton, there's a debian bug asking vmlinux to be packged too but no resolution yet :(
[02:40] <janimo> in the meantime use --no-vmlinux :)
[02:40] <janimo> unless you want to profile the kernel itself
[02:40] <rburton> janimo: i kinda want to know what the kernel is doing considering its taking 63% of my profile
[02:41] <janimo> then I guess asking fabbione is the way to go but he's on vac now I think
[02:41] <janimo> anyway I second your request
[02:42] <rburton> oh balls
[02:45] <martink> Mithrandir, native ooo on amd64 is not usable. And last time I looked, python-uno wasn't even packagable on amd64 native
[02:46] <doko> martink: you did see that as well? I couldn't figure out, why its not installed. at least it's installed into the solver
[02:49] <martink> doko, pyuno is disabled on amd64 because it breaks make install (buildfix-64bit-scp2-no-python.diff)
[03:00] <janimo> elmo, please sync xffm4 (it's NEW - it was in warty but not in hoary)
[03:01] <elmo> [Updating]  aspell-pl (20050510-1ubuntu1 [Ubuntu]  < 20050728-1 [Debian] )
[03:01] <elmo> doko: UVFEA needed
[03:01] <elmo> doko: aspell-es doesn't exist
[03:02] <elmo> aspell-uz is new, so I think needs UVFEA too
[03:02] <elmo> [Updating]  ispell-lt (1.1-4ubuntu1 [Ubuntu]  < 1.1+cvs20050806-1 [Debian] )
[03:02] <elmo> UVFEA needed there too
[03:03] <elmo> janimo: xffm4 is in universe
[03:03] <elmo> janimo: and it has a higher version number than Debian/unstable
[03:03] <elmo> which means I can't sync it
[03:03] <elmo>      xffm4 |  1:4.2.1-1 | breezy/universe | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[03:03] <elmo> whereas, Debian unstable has 4.2.2-1 (and because of the epoch, that's << than breezy)
[03:04] <Kamion> elmo: approved aspell-en at least, I haven't checked the others
[03:06] <elmo> kamion: the others are all minor version bumps (that looks like reunification too), so I sort of assumed they were pre-approved ;)
[03:06] <robertle> ogra: ping
[03:06] <Kamion> elmo: oh, I see, I misunderstood you
[03:06] <elmo> doko: others done - please get UVFEA for the others or correct me if I'm wrong
[03:07] <elmo> \sh: have you talked to daniels about xterm?
[03:07] <janimo> elmo, http://packages.debian.org/unstable/x11/xffm4
[03:07] <janimo> debian has 4.2.2
[03:07] <janimo> I epoch...
[03:07] <azeem> janimo: mind the epoch
[03:08] <doko> elmo: ok, I'm asking for UVFEA, but these are dictionaries. aspell-es -> espa-nol
[03:08] <janimo> azeem, elmo ok 
[03:08] <janimo> can it not be forced? that package in sid is actually newer
[03:08] <elmo> no, it can't be forced
[03:08] <elmo> because then users wouldn't see the upgrade
[03:09] <elmo> doko: espa-nol done
[03:09] <janimo> elmo, so I'll have to take the changes by hand?
[03:09] <janimo> can we get rid of the epoch so next time the sync works?
[03:10] <Mithrandir> no, you can never get rid of an epoch
[03:10] <elmo> no, epochs are forever
[03:10] <elmo> janimo: yes, you'll need to merge and do an upload byhand
[03:10] <janimo> so for this package we'll never be able to sync debian automatically?
[03:10] <janimo> unless they take apoch that is
[03:10] <Mithrandir> janimo: not unless debian adds an epoch too, no.
[03:10] <elmo> right
[03:10] <Kamion> elmo: aspell-pl, aspell-uz are fine
[03:10] <janimo> ok thanks guys.
[03:11] <mbreit> elmo: did you get my sync request for drpython?
[03:11] <elmo> mbreit: yes
[03:11] <elmo> Kamion/doko: done
[03:12] <mbreit> elmo: okay then... i was just wondering because i am getting no feedback from you (as well as for my whitelist request *g*)
[03:12] <Kamion> elmo: ispell-lt is fine too
[03:13] <elmo> mbreit: dude, your sync request was sent at midnight on Friday; I'll get round to it when I can
[03:14] <azeem> \sh: why was pymol again uploaded with a ubuntu revision?  Wouldn't it suffice to just sync from unstable (the debian->ubuntu patch only contains the changelog)
[03:14] <mbreit> elmo: thanks!
[03:15] <elmo> Kamion/doko: done too
[03:15] <elmo> fabbione: around?
[03:15] <elmo> (I know, you're on holiday - feel free to ignore me ;)
[03:16] <Kamion> elmo: I just happened to randomly spot that that yaboot thing you mentioned is fixed in arch
[03:16] <elmo> which yaboot thing?  I have so many complaints about yaboot :>
[03:16] <Kamion> elmo: apparently 2.6.12 indeed doesn't have those symlinks any more - when you asked me I was still running patched 2.6.9, I've since upgraded
[03:16] <Kamion> elmo: the lack of symlinks in /proc/device-tree/ on davis
[03:16] <elmo> aha
[03:17] <elmo> cool, thanks
[03:18] <\sh> azeem: it was on the MoM list
[03:19] <azeem> ah, probably due to the prior ubuntu version, which never built successfully
[03:20] <azeem> just wondered about the procedure
[03:20] <\sh> elmo: can u please include the new motu gpg keys into the keyring, so we don't have to much workload with uploads from other approved motus with no upload rights? thx...
[03:21] <elmo> \sh: can you answer my question about xterm?
[03:22] <elmo> and if a package has no changes, it always should be synced
[03:22] <madduck> who's responsible for mdadm in ubuntu?
[03:22] <\sh> elmo: yes...I want to upload it, cause for a favor of daniels..and I'm approved for main..please read my mail to keyring :)
[03:23] <elmo> \sh: is daniels aware of this?  last time I spoke to him, he seemed very much unaware
[03:23] <Kamion> http://ozlabs.org/pipermail/linuxppc-dev/2005-August/019354.html
[03:23] <Kamion> whoa
[03:23] <\sh> elmo: yes 
[03:24] <\sh> elmo: I can try to find the logs again
[03:24] <Kamion> madduck: nobody particular. Various of us have fixed a few urgent things as required, but I don't think any of us would like to be regarded as the maintainer.
[03:24] <tseng> \sh: what date
[03:25] <\sh> tseng: 2 weeks 2 1/2 I'll check
[03:25] <Kamion> \sh: you're supposed to review MOM's output and decide whether to sync as appropriate, not just accept it
[03:25] <madduck> Kamion: ok. i am now the debian maintainer it seems. and i am also a MOTU, so i guess i'll just keep doing it for both and pester you whenever there's an upload. :)
[03:25] <Kamion> madduck: we'll probably just keep on merging as need be and sending patches when stuff breaks ;)
[03:26] <Kamion> madduck: ideally mdadm would be the same in Debian and Ubuntu though; there's no huge reason for it to diverge, apart from maybe the lsb-base stuff if you don't like that
[03:26] <madduck> this is exactly what i want to do. the same package for both.
[03:26] <madduck> lsb-base stuff is responsible for this [ OK ]  init output crap?
[03:27] <\sh> elmo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-devel-2005-07-29.html
[03:29] <Mez> elmo: while you're sorting out \sh's key, any chance of sorting out mine too?
[03:30] <\sh> Mez: I'm not interessted in my key right now...MOTU keys are much more important right now
[03:30] <Mez> oh, I musta mis read what you said earlier
 elmo: yes...I want to upload it, cause for a favor of daniels..and I'm approved for main..please read my mail to keyring :)
[03:32] <Kamion> madduck: yes
[03:33] <\sh> Mez: 15:20 < \sh> elmo: can u please include the new motu gpg keys into the keyring, so we don't have to much workload with uploads from other approved motus with no upload rights? thx...
[03:33] <tseng> =/
[03:33] <Mez> \sh: I dont think I was here for that
[03:34] <tseng> im sure he can keep track of his own work list
[03:34] <madduck> Kamion: so ubuntu uses lsb-base and debian does not... have you guys pondered how to do this properly? i am thinking /etc/default/rcS ...
[03:34] <madduck> Kamion: it would be best to be able to decide on whether init should output LSB stuff per installation, not per package, right?
[03:34] <Kamion> madduck: Debian has lsb-base too, some maintainers have started to move to it
[03:35] <Kamion> the output format is not LSB-mandated
[03:35] <Kamion> it's just what Nathaniel happened to think was pretty when he did it
[03:35] <Kamion> I'd like to see more output configurability in lsb-base, and reduced brokenness surrounding error messages
[03:36] <madduck> right. doesn't debian policy specify how debian's init output looks like? i seem to recall it's not [ OK ] -style.
[03:36] <madduck> Kamion: and that was one of the main reasons why i dropped redhat. :)
[03:36] <Kamion> madduck: yes, it does
[03:36] <Kamion> madduck: the output annoys me too
[03:37] <madduck> so how can some maintainers adopt it? i'll be filing bugs soon! xorg is firsT!
[03:37] <Kamion> *sigh*
[03:37] <Kamion> policy always lags behind implementation
[03:37] <madduck> sure
[03:37] <Kamion> concentrate energy on improving lsb-base, I think
[03:37] <madduck> but the way to change it is not to disobey it.
[03:38] <Kamion> not on pointless policy flamewars
[03:38] <Kamion> and if there's to be a bug filed, there should be precisely ONE, on lsb-base
[03:38] <madduck> ic. so lsb-base provides the output functions and xorg simply uses them?
[03:38] <Kamion> yes
[03:39] <madduck> then, obviously, you are perfectly correct
[03:39] <Kamion> they're a bit nastily hardcoded
[03:39] <madduck> lsb-base should be made to output debian-style.
[03:40] <tepsipakki> is ubuntu interested in following lsb with runlevel-stuff?
[03:40] <tepsipakki> the current model in U and D is sucky
[03:41] <madduck> tepsipakki: debian is reworking the init stuff
[03:41] <tepsipakki> really? where is it mentioned?
[03:41] <madduck> tepsipakki: and we do it in cooperation with ubuntu so that one size will fit all.
[03:41] <madduck> tepsipakki: initscripts-ng on alioth.
[03:41] <tepsipakki> yes, thought so
[03:41] <tepsipakki> ah
[03:41] <tepsipakki> will check it out
[03:41] <madduck> not much there yet
[03:42] <tepsipakki> damn ;)
[03:42] <Kamion> the LSB says "Conforming implementations are not required to provide these exact run levels or give them the meanings described here, and may map any level described here to a different level which provides the equivalent functionality."
[03:42] <Kamion> if you're talking about the semantics of runlevels 2 and 3
[03:42] <Kamion> so talking about following the LSB is a bit of a misrepresentation IMHO
[03:43] <tepsipakki> no, the "su"-mode that has networking set up etc...
[03:43] <tepsipakki> well, of course there could also be more than just 1 and 2
[03:43] <Kamion> not confusing existing users is pretty important
[03:43] <tepsipakki> kamion: yes.. it's two different matters
[03:44] <tepsipakki> 1. I'd like the ng-stuff to have proper su-mode, with only root mounted and no network
[03:45] <tepsipakki> 2. a multiuser-runlevel with no network
[03:45] <tepsipakki> yes I can do these by myself, and we have made that, but still..
[03:46] <tepsipakki> I would've thought that someone had seen the light already ;)
[03:46] <Mez> Kamion: FYI: that Kynaptic was rebuilt :D
[03:48] <Kamion> Mez: I saw, thanks
[03:48] <Mez> Kamion: no probs
[03:50] <Mithrandir> doko: any reason why lib32gcc1 doesn't provide a shlibs file?
[03:51] <daniels> elmo: ?!?!
[03:51] <daniels> Kamion: tonight/tomorrow morning aest
[03:51] <Kamion> thanks
[03:51] <daniels> elmo: i'm happy for \sh to take xterm, whether or not this means me sponsoring his packages.
[03:51] <Mez> daniels, it shouldnt, \sh was approved for main
[03:52] <Mez> btw daniels: any idea when xkill/glxinfo will return
[03:53] <daniels> Mez: the answer to all of those questions is 'no'
[03:53] <doko> Mithrandir: yep, it's a bug, will fix it
[03:53] <\sh> ok...first I need to go home..I need a shower and a strong coffee...and then I will work further on
[03:53] <Mez> daniels, there was only one question
[03:53] <Mithrandir> doko: want a bug filed or will you remember it?
[03:53] <daniels> Mez: they get prioritised depending on breakage.  if they break builds or desktops, then I have absolutely no ETA, because I have a ton of stuff that I need to do before feature freeze and a ton of missing binraies also.
[03:53] <daniels> Mez: to 'when will <foo> app return'
[03:53] <doko> Mithrandir: already fixed
[03:53] <Mithrandir> doko: ok, thanks
[03:54] <doko> Mithrandir: but not for the next upload (jbailey does the biarch bootstrap dance with lamont/infinity)
[03:54] <Mez> daniels: they're part of xorg :P hence why I asked - but i assume they will return before releasE?
[03:55] <daniels> Mez: 'probably'
[03:56] <Mez> daniels, :P
[03:56] <daniels> Mez: glxgears may not.  a lot of stupid sample apps like xedit and xeyes definitely will not.
[03:57] <Kamion> incidentally, is there anything other developers can do to help with app packaging? it seems like the sort of thing that could be farmed out
[03:57] <daniels> absolutely
[03:57] <daniels> grab the source for ... say, xauth
[03:57] <Mez> daniels, glxgears is there - It's glxinfo I'm worried about :D
[03:57] <rburton> daniels: dude, xedit!!!
[03:57] <Kamion> well, I was thinking more new apps that have yet to be packaged, since those seem to be the critical path
[03:57] <daniels> rburton: my thoughts on xedit violate the coc.  incidentally, one of the words is only one letter away from coc.
[03:58] <daniels> kaminright
[03:58] <daniels> so, grab the source for xauth
[03:58] <daniels> and use its debian/ dir as a template
[03:58] <Kamion> oh, I see
[03:58] <daniels> follow the modular build instructions on xorg.freedesktop.org, and just grab stuff out of xorg/app/*
[03:58] <Kamion> xmkmf looks tricky though, it's off in config/
[03:58] <rburton> daniels: do you know much about xcb?
[03:58] <daniels> you'll need to change dist_man_MANS = foo.man in most cases to dist_man1_MANS
[03:58] <Kamion> ok
[03:59] <daniels> Kamion: xmkmf is a special case, because we need to ship the .cf files as well, which we don't ship in the modular tree
[03:59] <Kamion> do developers need to coordinate with xorg upstream to get tarball releases of the apps?
[03:59] <Kamion> or just pull CVS?
[03:59] <daniels> aside from that, the apps should be reasonably easy to package.  you'll need to pul debian/copyright yourself.
[03:59] <daniels> Kamion: just pull cvs.
[03:59] <daniels> Kamion: the version numbers on the apps are, um, a little arbitrary
[03:59] <daniels> hence xauth 1.0 vs 1.0.0
[04:00] <daniels> which may need to become 1.0.0.0 in the future
[04:00] <daniels> it's at least a bit easier now that we've decided on a versioning scheme
[04:00] <Mithrandir> "add zeroes as you release new versions"?
[04:00] <daniels> kind of fortuitious that my scheme won, because veryone else in the release cabal was arguing strongly against me
[04:00] <Mithrandir> aka "SAVE POWER"?
[04:01] <daniels> Mithrandir: well, whether everything has its own versions, or starts at 7
[04:01] <Kamion> might be worth throwing out a vaguely prioritised hitlist so that people can cherry-pick from there to best effect
[04:02] <Riddell> daniels: can you tell me the current gl and glu build-deps to be used for qt?
[04:03] <Kamion> libgl's broken for build-deps at the moment
[04:03] <Riddell> so I'm discovering
[04:03] <daniels> Riddell: libgl-xorg-dev | libgl-dev, libglu-mesa-dev | libglu-dev
[04:03] <daniels> but libgl-xorg-dev is somewhat uninstallable at the moment
[04:03] <daniels> *cough*
[04:03] <Kamion> isn't that libgl1-xorg-dev and libglu1-mesa-dev?
[04:03] <Mithrandir> go ooo.  Link against pam.
[04:03] <daniels> Kamion: problem is that most of the priorities (especially xmkmf) are seriously non-trivial
[04:04] <daniels> Kamion: it's basically 'sessreg, xset, xmkmf, anything else', and the rest being spotfires as people go OMG GNOME NEEDS THIS
[04:04] <daniels> Kamion: er, yes.  yes it is.
[04:04] <Mithrandir> and double-go lib32z1, put your files in the wrong spot.
[04:04] <Kamion> understood; just thinking maybe people could take the medium-level stuff off your hands to reduce the OMG GLXGEARS factor a bit :)
[04:05] <Kamion> without stepping on stuff you're already doing
[04:06] <Riddell> libglu1-mesa-dev wants to remove x-window-system-core
[04:06] <Kamion> Riddell: yes, that's due to the libgl1-xorg-dev uninstallability
[04:07] <Kamion> I have another mesa upload queued to make libgl1-xorg-dev the primary alternative for libgl-dev, but I'm not uploading it until libgl1-xorg-dev's fixed because it would make the world even more confusing
[04:07] <daniels> Kamion: heh
[04:07] <daniels> Kamion: someone else can take glxgears, and maintain the shit :P
[04:07] <Kamion> oh, and to make libglu1-mesa depend on libgl1-xorg as the primary alternative for libgl1 too, of course
[04:08] <daniels> Kamion: but yeah, point taken, I'll put up a wiki page when I'm done with all the stuff I want to do tonight (which won't necessarily occur tonight.  might well happen on the tram to uni tomorrow.)
[04:08] <daniels> Kamion: yeah.  i'm looking at mesa now, including a new upstream release.
[04:09] <Kamion> ah, yeah, I was going to ask you about that, having noticed that xorg upstream were recommending 6.3.1
[04:09] <daniels> Kamion: then libgl*-xorg DIES DIES DIES
[04:09] <daniels> Kamion: well, anything below 6.3.1 will produce a libGL that's incapable of direct rendering, which kind of bites, especially since all indirect is unaccelerated with our current crappy server architecture
[04:09] <Kamion> is the libGLw in libgl1-xorg built for Xt widgets?
[04:10] <daniels> uhm.  i think so.  do things actually use that?  i was hoping to kill it.
[04:10] <Kamion> it'd be neat if we could do that with mesa's libGLw; I had to brutally excise it to avoid pulling lesstif2-dev into main, and I'd've preferred a less brutal approach
[04:10] <Kamion> oh, ok. very little if anything in the archive uses it, max three packages
[04:10] <daniels> Kamion: motif is the way of the future
[04:10] <daniels> Kamion: soon you linux weenies will realise that gtk is a toy toolkit
[04:11] <daniels> Kamion: awesome.  CRUSH!  KILL!  DESTROY!
[04:11] <Kamion> killing it's fine with me
[04:12] <daniels> Kamion: \o/
[04:12] <daniels> Kamion: i am hungry for blood
[04:12] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:22] <lamont__> daniels: so about all my dep-wait libxp-dev packages.......
[04:23] <seb128> lamont__: hi. Could you kick gnome-applets on i386?
[04:24] <lamont__> seb128: kicked
[04:25] <seb128> thanks
[04:25] <daniels> lamont__: ... they use xprint.  they're fundamentally broken.  you're better off without them.
[04:28] <lamont__> web/firefox_1.0.6-1ubuntu4: Dep-Wait by buildd+smallone [optional:out-of-date] 
[04:28] <lamont__>   Dependencies: libxp-dev
[04:28] <lamont__> mail/mozilla-thunderbird_1.0.6-0ubuntu2: Dep-Wait by buildd+smallone [optional:uncompiled] 
[04:28] <lamont__>   Dependencies: libxp-dev
[04:28] <lamont__> universe/x11/xprint_1:0.1.0.alpha1-11: Dep-Wait by buildd+smallone [optional:out-of-date] 
[04:28] <lamont__>   Dependencies: libxp-dev
[04:28] <lamont__> (ok, that one is just funny(
[04:29] <lamont__> and a bunch of games
[04:29] <daniels> lamont__: who uses those?
[04:29] <lamont__> ffox and tbird I kinda care about
[04:29] <lamont__> not just because ffox is also blocking a bunch of packages
[04:38] <madduck> Kamion: #321963 -- seems like Chris Lawrence is working on it.
[04:42] <Kamion> lamont__: it's still there 'cos nobody's acted on the rene output yet, probably deliberately
[04:42] <Kamion> madduck: cool
[04:42] <lamont__> Kamion: ah, ok.
[04:42] <lamont__> we should do that semi-soonish, since it's the source of a few things being FTBFS in the archive
[04:43] <lamont__> (things already built, true... but that only makes it worse, IMO)
[04:47] <seb128> jdub: around?
[04:54] <bddebian> Howdy
[04:58] <pkern> If I discover a broken dependency in universe which results out of a security update, I have to get in touch with #ubuntu-motu, right?
[04:58] <shackan> rhytmbox doesn't play shoutcast streams, who's the rb mantainer ?
[04:59] <daniels> seb128
[04:59] <shackan> seb128, ping :)
[04:59] <HiddenWolf> shackan: just install gstreamer-mpeg, and it'll play shoutcast
[04:59] <HiddenWolf> shoutcast -> mp3
[05:00] <shackan> and aac streams ?
[05:00] <HiddenWolf> shackan: check which gstreamer-codec does aac.
[05:00] <shackan> thanks a lot
[06:00] <seb128> shackan: pong
[06:04] <shaya> what's with the "[4294683.802000] " type stuff in all kernel logs w/ the .12 kernels?
[06:04] <shaya> is that an ubuntu addition or std kernel?
[06:04] <tseng> i think thats that auditing framework
[06:05] <shackan> seb128, two things about rhythmbox: 1) it eats 100% if I the connection drops while listening to some streaming and I press the stop/play button 2) I can't find gstreamer codecs in breezy, it's in multiverse ? (I didn't check)
[06:05] <shaya> "auditing framework" ?
[06:05] <shackan> ops, it eats 100% cpu
[06:06] <Kamion> shaya: timestamp since boot, AFAIK it's standard not an Ubuntu addition
[06:06] <shaya> hmm, ok.  annoying as takes up space in dmesg buffer
[06:06] <shaya> so get less logs via dmesg
[06:18] <seb128> shackan: what codecs? 1) maybe an known issue upstream, there is some such bugs
[06:19] <shackan> mpeg
[06:27] <seb128> shackan: have you tried with gstreamer0.8-ffmpeg from universe?
[06:30] <pitti> doko: openoffice.org2-l10n-en-gb is in universe, is there a special reason for that or was it just forgotten to be promoted?
[06:30] <doko> pitti: no reason
[06:31] <doko> pitti: note that with the next upload (if that one is actually built), all the l10n packages will disappear, until built from the second ooo-l10n package
[06:31] <Lathiat> mdz: yay that upload fixed nvidia gl :)
[06:32] <mdz> Lathiat: actually, last week's did, but it didn't compile ;-)
[06:32] <pitti> doko: atm this package is the only one that makes l-support-en uninstallable
[06:32] <pitti> Hi mdz
[06:32] <Lathiat> mdz: ah :)
[06:33] <pitti> mdz: speaking about l-r-m, why there are a bunch of object files in /lib/linux-restricted-modules/2.6.12-6-amd64-generic/, but no nvidia.ko? packaging bug?
[06:34] <Lathiat> pitti: theyre linked at boot time
[06:34] <pitti> uh, are they?
[06:34] <pitti> uh, are they?
[06:34] <mdz> pitti: sudo /etc/init.d/linux-restricted-modules-common start
[06:34] <pitti> cool, thanks
[06:35] <Kamion> pitti: we'll promote oo2-l10n-en-gb when you upload the new language-support-* so that it shows up in the list of stuff to promote
[06:35] <Kamion> doko: they'll only disappear if somebody actually removes them, which I doubt anyone will :)
[06:35] <Kamion> doko: more likely they'll quietly sit around being not-built-from-source
[06:36] <pitti> Kamion: already happened, they are in the archive
[06:36] <doko> Kamion: even better :)
[06:38] <lunitik> Can someone please add an op to #ubuntu that is a little more even tempered than Seveas, else I will not be able to take part in that channel
[06:38] <lunitik> Thank you in advance
[06:38] <mdke> lunitik, there are many ops
[06:38] <theine> Is there a way to change the timer interrupt rate without recompiling the kernel?
[06:39] <lunitik> mdke, no others that are around as much as him or me...
[06:39] <Kamion> pitti: ok, I'll rerun cron.sync in a moment and check
[06:39] <pitti> thanks
[06:39] <Kamion> (once cron.daily's finished)
[06:40] <lunitik> He abuses the priviledge he has been given... I help just as much, but he bans me because I dislike his rudeness directed at me
[06:40] <mdke> lunitik, if you have a problem with an op, best thing is to try and resolve it privately, or else talk about it at the next community council meeting
[06:40] <daniels> lunitik: this is massively off-topic for #ubuntu-devel.  please don't drag it in here.
[06:40] <mdke> not here though
[06:40] <pitti> Kamion: tomorrow I'll check your britney output again and fix the remaining problems
[06:41] <lunitik> daniels, is there somewhere better to talk to higher ups in the Ubuntu community? there are people in the channel that will agree with me, he is abusing is privelidge
[06:41] <mdke> lunitik, as I said, the Comunity Council, but not here
[06:41] <Seveas> lunitik, as he said: use the CC meeting
[06:41] <zul> lunitik: bring it up at the cc meeting
[06:41] <lunitik> When is the next one?
[06:41] <mdke> lunitik, search the wiki
[06:42] <Kamion> 2005/08/16 IIRC
[06:42] <daniels> lunitik: you need to provide full, unedited logs of anything you consider particularly offensive.
[06:43] <lunitik> daniels, others stating he was wrong enough?
[06:43] <daniels> lunitik: no.
[06:43] <lunitik> I'm not saying I'm not at fault... I'm saying he deals with things incorrectly...
[06:44] <lunitik> Someone needs to provide a different perspective... or he needs to lose his op status...
[06:44] <daniels> lunitik: as I said, if you provide full, unedited logs, then it can be dealt with appropriately by the CC, but not here.
[06:44] <lunitik> Also... all I see is that CC meets every 2 weeks... anything more specific?
[06:44] <daniels> 17:41 < lunitik> When is the next one?
[06:44] <daniels> 17:41 < mdke> lunitik, search the wiki
[06:44] <daniels> 17:42 < Kamion> 2005/08/16 IIRC
[06:44] <lunitik> Kamion, thank you
[06:45] <mdke> the wiki page will confirm the next date
[06:46] <Kamion> just for avoidance of doubt, #ubuntu-devel is NOT an escalation channel for issues in #ubuntu; it's a development channel
[06:49] <jk> perhaps it should be called #ubuntu-no-not-here :)
[06:49] <lunitik> Sorry for distracting everyone... 
[06:50] <pitti> mvo: here? can you please chmod 775 your seeds--breezy revision lock so that I can commit?
[06:51] <mvo> pitti: args, doing this now. I swear I set my umask to 002
[06:53] <Kamion> mvo: you have 'umask 002' at the bottom of .bashrc, but right up at the top you have '[ -z "$PS1" ]  && return' so that the umask doesn't get set in the case of noninteractive shells
[06:53] <Kamion> move umask above that and it should be fine
[06:54] <Kamion> pitti: promoted
[06:54] <mvo> pitti: fixed
[06:55] <mvo> Kamion: right, thanks. fixed now
[06:55] <Kamion> mdz: I assume all these language-pack-{gnome-kde}-* packages are ok to promote?
[06:57] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[06:57] <mdz> same content, different packaging
[06:59] <Kamion> score, I crashed teri
[06:59] <Kamion> oh, never mind, I just got -s and -c the wrong way round
[07:01] <bddebian> Can I ask (without getting my head chopped off), why none of the new MOTU's have upload rights yet?  Is it just that the person responsible is too overwhelmed?
[07:01] <mbreit> bddebian: elmo has a lot of work to do..
[07:02] <mbreit> bddebian: but since \sh told him today about their keys, i think it will no take too long
[07:05] <bddebian> mbreit: Well it doesn't matter anyway 'cause I get ignored in here as well as I used to in #d-d :-)
[07:21] <Kamion> ah, good, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/breezy_probs.html is looking a bit healthier now
[07:22] <seb128> I get a "arch_commit: unable to acquire revision lock (internal error in archive-pfs.c(pfs_lock_revision))" when trying to change the desktop seed ... any idea on what could be wrong?
[07:23] <mvo> Kamion, seb128: could this be releated to my wrong umask in the commit before? (I changed my revision lock to 775 though)
[07:25] <Kamion> mvo: hmm, the revision lock is missing altogether
[07:25] <Kamion> drwxrwxr-x   3 mvo      warthogs 4096 Aug  8 17:28 ++revision-lock-held--patch-90--seb128@debian.org--628de7a29d2d9
[07:25] <Kamion> ... but in the wrong directory ...
[07:26] <mvo> strange ...
[07:26] <Kamion> seb128: try again now
[07:26] <Kamion> (I did mkdir -p patch-90/++revision-lock/+contents)
[07:27] <seb128> Kamion: works fine now, thanks
[07:32] <Kamion> seb128: are you in the process of fixing evolution-exchange/evolution-webcal to use new libsoup, or should I look at it? that's the last pair of ubuntu-desktop installability blockers
[07:33] <Kamion> pitti: britney output's much better now, thanks
[07:33] <seb128> Kamion: I'm waiting for today's new version of those to not do 2 uploads ...
[07:33] <Kamion> there's still fallout from various uninstallable aspell-* and mozilla-firefox-locale-*
[07:33] <pitti> mvo: I got disconnected...
[07:33] <pitti> Aug 08 18:50:59 <pitti> mvo: here? can you please chmod 775 your seeds--breezy revision lock so that I can commit?
[07:33] <pitti> Aug 08 18:51:31 <pitti> mvo: (and please consider setting umask 002 on chinstrap)
[07:33] <Kamion> seb128: ok
[07:33] <Kamion> pitti: it's sorted now
[07:33] <seb128> if there is some hurry I can push rebuilds now though
[07:33] <Kamion> later's fine
[07:34] <seb128> cool
[07:34] <pitti> Kamion: yay
[07:41] <yann__> Hi... I thing gnome-panel-screenshot is broken
[07:41] <yann__> it crashs every time with the --window argument
[07:42] <yann__> (hoary)
[07:42] <rburton> works for me on hoary
[07:43] <yann__> gnome-panel-screenshot --window --delay=3
[07:43] <yann__> that command crashes by me :/
[07:44] <yann__> The Application "gnome-panel-screenshot" has quit unexpectedly. [...] 
[07:44] <yann__> i'm using openbox instead of metacity... 
[07:44] <rburton> yann__: get a stack trace with gdb
[07:45] <{Seb}> is the cursor bug known (the cursor is not human but the awful standard X ones) and if so, fixed or not?
[07:45] <Treenaks> {Seb}: there is a bug know, daniels mailed a fix to ubuntu-devel last week
[07:45] <Treenaks> but that fix doesn't work for me :(
[07:45] <yann__> rburton > yeah, eh, hum, i'm just a standard user ;) 
[07:45] <Kamion> elmo: please sync libcaca-dev from unstable (slang2 transition)
[07:45] <Kamion> elmo: (er, I mean libcaca obviously)
[07:46] <yann__> i'll send it with bug buddy ^^
[07:46] <yann__> http://pastebin.com/332145
[07:46] <elmo> Kamion: nothing to sync?
[07:49] <Kamion> elmo: oh, it was done earlier today evidently
[07:49] <Kamion> or not
[07:50] <Kamion> ah, failed to build
[07:50] <yann__> so, bug reported, thks bug buddy?
[07:50] <yann__> -?+.
[07:51] <WaterSevenUb> seb128: this bug 7370 was about menu entries translations... where should I file bugs on the translation of menu entries now?
[07:52] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: use rosetta
[07:53] <seb128> ie: contact the rosetta team for your language
[07:53] <seb128> or be a part of the team and fix the errors yourself
[07:53] <seb128> bbl
[07:56] <WaterSevenUb> seb128: I'm actually part of the team :) I don't understand very well who should I contact or what should I do to change the PO files themselves to include desktop menu entries strings...
[08:04] <shackan> I downloaded a source package and want to configure it with --enable-debug, debian/rules does not have any configure section, where can I put my config parameters ?
[08:15] <Kamion> shackan: wherever it runs configure
[08:16] <Kamion> a configure target in debian/rules is not mandatory
[08:20] <Mithrandir> *grumble*
[08:21] <shackan> Kamion, so where does it take the options to give to configure ?
[08:23] <Kamion> shackan: that totally and utterly depends on the package
[08:23] <shackan> sh*t
[08:23] <Kamion> come on, debian/rules files are usually not hard to read
[08:23] <Mithrandir> is /dev/input/mice gone for anybody except me?
[08:23] <shackan> they seem standard makefiles...
[08:24] <Kamion> indeed
[08:24] <Kamion> with some prescribed targets
[08:24] <Kamion> the Debian Policy Manual has the details
[08:24] <shackan> but this one is just five lines, and no configure options nowhere
[08:25] <elmo> haha
[08:25] <elmo> WELCOME TO CDBS
[08:25] <Kamion> welcome to cdbs
[08:25] <Kamion> it's "easy"
[08:25] <Kamion> (allegedly)
[08:25] <elmo> kamion: I think you misspelt retarded as easy, HTH
[08:25] <zyga> mvo: hi
[08:25] <mvo> hi zyga 
[08:25] <shackan> mh, ok, I'm just making a fool of myself
[08:25] <elmo> shackan: no, you're not, we're just bitter about cdbs
[08:25] <Kamion> there's not exactly a lot of cdbs documentation, so you're likely to have to go read the included makefiles
[08:26] <shackan> oh my..
[08:26] <Kamion> https://wiki.duckcorp.org/DebianPackagingTutorial/CDBS
[08:26] <Kamion> may help
[08:26] <zyga> mvo: did you have time to check my tiny patch?
[08:27] <shackan> I Just thought "ok, let's rebuild this thingie with --enable-debug and see what's wrong here", it shouldn't take more than two minutes! man, I was wrong.. :D
[08:27] <shackan> thanks a lot
[08:27] <Kamion> in return you can promise never to create any new packages with cdbs. :)
[08:27] <mvo> zyga: not yet, hopefully later
[08:27] <Mithrandir> shackan: what package in question is this?
[08:27] <shackan> I promise :)
[08:27] <zyga> mvo: okay, thanks
[08:28] <shackan> Mithrandir, I need debug output in bluez-libs
[08:29] <Mithrandir> shackan: set DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS in debian/rules and you should be fine
[08:31] <shackan> hooray!
[08:31] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: the .pot file should get the desktop entries or that's a bug with the package
[08:31] <shackan> Mithrandir, thank you!
[08:32] <Mithrandir> shackan: np
[08:32] <jordi> pitti_: ping
[08:32] <shackan> CDBS automatically handle common flags to pass to the configure script, but it is possible to give some extra parameters :
[08:32] <shackan> DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS := --with-ipv6 --with-foo
[08:32] <pitti_> Hi jordi 
[08:32] <shackan> cool, it says it here, too
[08:33] <jordi> pitti_: I wonder if you haev some minutes to have a look at a security question I have for mailutils
[08:33] <WaterSevenUb> seb128: assuming it's a bug, where do I file it?:) 
[08:33] <jordi> pitti_: /usr/bin/apt-get: error while loading shared libraries: libstdc++.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[08:33] <jordi> pitti: oops, wrong paste
[08:33] <pitti> that looks serious :-)
[08:34] <jordi> pitti: http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-mailutils/branches/sarge/debian/patches/?rev=0&sc=0  and #312245
[08:34] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: bugzilla
[08:34] <WaterSevenUb> seb128: specifically where under bugzilla? 
[08:34] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: do you have a package example? 
[08:34] <seb128> the source package for the package with the bug ...
[08:34] <jordi> pitti: that Debian bug says imap4d broke, and has a patch that seems reasonable to me according to the RFC
[08:34] <seb128> pitti: are we going to have .desktop files translation with language-packs for 5.10?
[08:35] <pitti> seb128: no, that's still future :-/
[08:35] <jordi> The security patch in svn (04_IDEF*) adds that hunk, but I don't know if removing that else clause reintroduces a security bug.
[08:35] <jordi> pitti: I wondered if you could eyeball
[08:35] <WaterSevenUb> seb128: for example, gnome-app-install... but the maintainer said it is going to be included in a new upload (which makes me confuse again... will the new upload overwrite the translation in Rosetta?)
[08:36] <WaterSevenUb> pitti: but the desktop files translation are not included in the templates of the applications?
[08:36] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: you want to speak to carlos when he's here, they are loading the po files this week, not sure of what is done or to do
[08:36] <seb128> pitti: they are, intltool put that to the .pot file
[08:36] <seb128> ups
[08:36] <seb128> s/pitti/WaterSevenUb
[08:36] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: the desktop file translation *should* be included in the po file.
[08:37] <WaterSevenUb> seb128: thanks! and thanks once again for  gnome-media as a hoary-update candidate:)
[08:37] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: unless the app sucks and doesn't support intltool.
[08:37] <pitti> jordi: bah, the huge configure patch is really necessary in 04_*?
[08:37] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: np!
[08:37] <jordi> pitti: no, I cleaned that up
[08:38] <WaterSevenUb> pitti: so... If the desktop menu entry strings are included in the PO files, and if they are not going to be in language-packs for 5.10, does that mean that the templates in Rosetta are not going to be used in 5.10? :) I'm probably mixing things...
[08:40] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: they will appear in rosetta, and we can use them to upload new package versions with improved translatio
[08:40] <pitti> ns
[08:40] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: but our langpacks don't ship updated .desktop files
[08:40] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: the .pot/.po have the text/translation, but for the .desktop files the translation doesn't come from the .po but from the .desktop itself
[08:40] <seb128> Name[<locale] =....
[08:40] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: carlos made an upstream proposal to allow using gettext for desktop files
[08:41] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: if this is accepted, it will become much easier
[08:42] <pitti> jordi: hm, hard to tell by just looking at the patch, but since it reverses a sanity check introduced by a security patch, I'm sceptical
[08:42] <pitti> jordi: a lot of mailers assign bogus/random UIDs though
[08:42] <pitti> jordi: but I'd rather defer to upstream, is the patch known to them?
[08:43] <jordi> they seem on VAC
[08:44] <WaterSevenUb> pitti: so, If I understood correctly, while that proposal is not implemented.... whom to contact concerning the .desktop files?
[08:45] <WaterSevenUb> pitti: I mean... translated .desktop files?
[08:45] <pitti> WaterSevenUb: we already spec'ed out a solution#
[08:45] <pitti> but didn't implement it yet
[08:46] <pitti> http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguagePackRoadmap
[08:49] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: as said before rosetta has the translation
[08:49] <seb128> WaterSevenUb: use rosetta for it. We will probably update manually the .desktop from rosetta before 5.10
[08:50] <WaterSevenUb> ok:) thanks guys. have a nice evening!
[08:51] <seb128> np, you too
[08:51] <jordi> pitti: accordin to the rfc, that failure is wrong though.
[08:52] <pitti> jordi: e. g. offlineimap assigns really crazy UIDs which probably don't stand many tests either :-/
[08:53] <pitti> brb
[08:57] <jordi> pitti: with that you mean the patch couuld be right?
[08:59] <pitti> jordi: I mean that reverting it could be right
[09:00] <jordi> pitti: hrm. I have this package ready which should be a debian stable target.
[09:00] <jordi> I'll triplecheck with Joey
[09:00] <jordi> pitti: thanks
[09:01] <rubenv> infinity: I heard you have the network-manager packages under your control, do you see them getting ready in time for breezy, and if not, is there something I can do to help out?
[09:34] <doko> lamont: any news about the openoffice.org build failure on i386?
[09:36] <sivang> is this knows? 
[09:36] <sivang> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[09:36] <sivang>   apt-file: Depends: libapt-pkg-perl but it is not going to be installed
[09:36] <sivang> E: Broken packages
[09:37] <sivang> s/knows/known/
[09:42] <doko> elmo: please sync gcc-defaults from unstable
[09:45] <mvo> sivang: it needs a rebuild
[09:49] <sivang> mvo: ah I see, btw, do you happen to know what autopoint is and/or what package provides it? (my apt-file is broken :-) )
[10:00] <BenC> any of the ia64 porters around?
[10:01] <BenC> probably not an ia64 specific question, but I need to know where the gdm gets its information from about what X11 driver to load for the video card
[10:01] <BenC> there is no XF86-Config like I was expecting
[10:01] <jdub> yo BenC 
[10:01] <BenC> hey
[10:02] <jdub> you want xorg.conf?
[10:02] <mvo> BenC: is there no /etc/X11/xorg.conf?
[10:02] <Mithrandir> BenC: /etc/X11/xorg.conf?
[10:02] <BenC> ah, ok, thanks
[10:02] <BenC> well, it is loading nv
[10:02] <BenC> but the video seems to lock up when X starts
[10:03] <BenC> black screen
[10:03] <BenC> debian X works fine with it
[10:03] <Mithrandir> with the nv driver?
[10:03] <Clint> ARGH!
[10:03] <BenC> yeah
[10:03] <BenC> maybe I should disable drm/gl stuff
[10:11] <seb128> mdz: thanks for the libsoup uploads but I was working on this uploads with the new versions as said here 2-3 hours ago ...
[10:11] <mdz> seb128: I'm trying to get an installable live CD, and those were the only two packages blocking it
[10:11] <seb128> k, I ask Kamion if there was sure hurry and there wasn't ... no problem :)
[10:11] <mdz> seb128: if you could wait for my version to be built before uploading, that would be good :-)
[10:12] <seb128> k, will do
[10:12] <seb128> s/ask/asked/
[10:12] <seb128> s/sure/some/
[10:12] <seb128> grumpf, I lack some sleep :p
[10:13] <seb128> hum, and jbailey broke gconf too with his changes ...
[10:13] <BenC> well, disabling dri/gl didn't help either
[10:13] <seb128> if somebody has some gconf issues, change the /usr/share/gconf folders so they can be read by your user
[10:15] <jdub> heh, this Armin Ronacher dude isn't having a good time on u-d
[10:15] <seb128> hey jdub
[10:15] <jdub> yo seb128 
[10:17] <seb128> jdub: now than gtk-engines and gnome-themes ship clearlooks what do we do ... keep maintaining clearlooks package and update those 2 to not ship the files or other way?
[10:17] <jdub> they both ship the metatheme?
[10:18] <seb128> hum, lemme lock
[10:19] <seb128> jdub: right, gnome-themes has a ./desktop-themes/Clearlooks/index.theme
[10:23] <jdub> seb128: ... perhaps we should get this fixed upstream :-)
[10:24] <seb128> jdub: hum, get what? Both the clearlooks package and the gnome-themes one ship the .theme. gtk2-engines doesn't 
[10:24] <seb128> (I guess we were not speaking about the same "both")
[10:25] <jdub> oh right
[10:25] <jdub> hrmph
[10:26] <jdub> i think removing it from clearlooks would be closest to the norm
[10:26] <jdub> and it doesn't really matter for engine-only users that the metatheme isn't there
[10:26] <jdub> (thinking about xfce or non-gnome usres)
[10:27] <seb128> k, so we drop the clearlooks package and ship clearlooks from gtk-engines and gnome-themes?
[10:28] <jdub> hrm, was only suggesting dropping the metatheme from clearlooks
[10:28] <jdub> i think it makes sense to ship clearlooks (rather than gtk-engines) if the most useful stuff is happening there
[10:28] <seb128> yeah, but do we have an interest to keep 2 clearlooks conflicting?
[10:29] <jdub> well, if the clearlooks maintainers are going to keep doing clearlooks separately, and there's good reason to stick with it (staying on the edge), then yeah
[10:33] <BenC> how come there is a Contents-ia64 for breezy but no binary-ia64 directories?
[10:33] <seb128> jdub: 
 Remenic: where is the upstream source for clearlook now? Do you keep working on it on sf, or do you hack on gtk-engines/gnome-themes?
 seb128: gtk-engines
 I should mention that on the clearlooks page sometime
[10:34] <windex> i have a souce package with a debian directory, how do i make a .deb file?
[10:34] <elmo> BenC: ports.ubuntu.com
[10:35] <windex> i always forget. :/
[10:35] <BenC> ah, thanks elmo
[10:36] <seb128> jdub: here we go, just dropping clearlooks :)
[10:37] <BenC> breezy is the latest devel, correct?
[10:37] <seb128> yep
[10:40] <windex> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot
[10:40] <lamont__> BenC: you'll also find that the latest breezy (2.6.12) kernel has ACPI problems on ia64 if you try it...
[10:42] <BenC> mainly just want to try the latest nv X driver
[10:43] <BenC> 2.6.13-rc was working ok before on my i2k, just fyi
[10:43] <BenC> wow, how do I set the fb font to something a little bigger?
[10:46] <lamont__> BenC: cool.  it's either something in the config options enabled, or in the latest acpi patch - I got defconfig to boot with -4.4, but my build env might be suspect there...
[10:46] <lamont__> this is booting on a zx2000, fwiw
[10:47] <lamont__> BenC: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily/hoary/20050712.1/hoary-install-ia64.iso is a nearly-functional install iso
[10:48] <lamont__> (when it screaches to a halt at elilo installer, get a shell, edit /var/lib/dpkg/info/elilo-installer.postinst, and switch the args on the db_fget call to make 'seen' second.  back to the menu and continue
[10:48] <lamont__> (that's fixed in breezy, but is part of the reason that there isn't a hoary/ia64 release
[10:52] <BenC> yeah, I got the install done from that page
[10:52] <BenC> just this X thing is really slowing me down
[10:52] <BenC> upgrading to breezy now
[10:53] <mdz> BenC: you do have a desktop system based on an officially supported Ubuntu architecture, right?
[10:53] <BenC> yes, I have an i386 system aswell
[10:53] <BenC> that one is installed, and I am getting some things setup on it
[10:54] <BenC> waiting till later to setup the sparc and ppc32 systems
[10:55] <BenC> like in a few weeks :)
[10:56] <mdz> ;-)
[10:58] <lamont__> BenC: no hppa? :-)
[11:00] <luis_> mdz: I hate to be a nag or anything, but do you guys have some kind of timetable for the daily livecds to be back up for x86?
[11:01] <seb128> luis_: 
 seb128: I'm trying to get an installable live CD, and those were the only two packages blocking it
[11:01] <seb128> luis_: that was ~1h ago
[11:02] <luis_> ah, cool
[11:03] <jdub> seb128: tops, much saner (sort of) ;-)
[11:03] <luis_> seb128: thanks
[11:05] <seb128> np
[11:10] <mdz> with luck, there will be live CDs within the next couple of hours
[11:11] <luis_> mdz: very cool, thanks
[11:17] <mako> luis_: nag ;)
[11:19] <luis_> mako: =P
[11:19] <luis_> mako: no futon for you!
[11:19] <lamont__> mdz: installable livecd?  meaning buildable, or that one can install from it?
[11:22] <mdz> lamont__: meaning buildable
[11:22] <mdz> it's in the compression phase now, so it looks good
[11:22] <lamont__> woot
[11:23] <mdz> it's done
[11:24] <lamont__> so now you just need to wrap the CD around the rootfs and publish, yes?
[11:24] <mdz> doing that now
[11:26] <mdz> seb128: go ahead with those uploads whenever you are ready; it worked
[11:28] <Surak> where can we get it?
[11:28] <seb128> mdz: k, thanks
[11:31] <mdz> Kamion: do you know why debootstrap is claiming that W: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/binary-amd64/Packages.bz2 was corrupt
[11:31] <mdz> ?
[11:31] <mdz> (and similarly for i386 and powerpc)
[11:33] <mdz> weird, now it likes amd64+i386 but not powerpc
[11:34] <Kamion> mdz: never seen that
[11:34] <mdz> Kamion: try an update of ubuntu-meta right now, would you?
[11:34] <mdz> maybe it's just me
[11:34] <Kamion> Surak: it'll be in the usual place (http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/) when ready
[11:34] <Kamion> mdz: yes, I see the same thing
[11:34] <mdz> Kamion: powerpc failed, but otherwise seemed to go OK
[11:34] <Kamion> looks like a mirroring glitch
[11:35] <mdz> (the live CD build)
[11:37] <mdz> no idea if it works yet, of course, but there seem to be eager testers ;-)
[11:40] <jdub> mdz: you didn't have any comments re: lsb?
[11:44] <Kamion> lamont__,infinity: libcaca_0.9-5ubuntu1_i386 is another broken buildd chroot; can that be cleaned up?
[11:44] <lamont__> gah
[11:45] <lamont__> hrm.. .thundermug doesn't like 64-bit architectures
[11:46] <pitti> gosh, is it just me, or did ffox recently start to crash all over the place?
[11:46] <tseng> pitti: it did, but it was fixed
[11:46] <tseng> mine was a libcairo thing
[11:47] <pitti> tseng: well, I recently switched from i386 to amd64
[11:47] <mdz> jdub: context?
[11:47] <lamont__> Kamion: given back
[11:48] <Kamion> thanks
[11:48] <Kamion> mdz: ubuntu-meta update's working for me now, I'll upload
[11:48] <mdz> Kamion: I uploaded one already
[11:48] <Kamion> oh, ok
[11:49] <mdz> powerpc live build failed due to:
[11:49] <mdz> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[11:49] <mdz>   linux-power3: Depends: linux-powerpc64-smp but it is not going to be installed  linux-power4: Depends: linux-powerpc64-smp but it is not going to be installed
[11:50] <Kamion> that's due to l-r-m
[11:51] <Kamion> there's no l-r-m for powerpc64-smp, and there needs to be (none necessary for powerpc64) 
[11:51] <Kamion> either that or it should be taken back out of linux-meta
[11:51] <BenC> lamont__: any idea why my i2k would all of the sudden have floating point driver load failure during EFI boot?
[11:53] <mdz> Kamion: from what I can tell, it should just be a matter of adding it to the control file
[11:53] <mdz> I'll see if my powerpc is up for a test build
[11:54] <shackan> hi pitti
[11:54] <Riddell> mdz, Kamion: there's some new versions of packages I'd like to upload, what's the process?
[11:55] <lamont__> BenC: ew.
[11:55] <pitti> Hi shackan 
[11:55] <BenC> could that be the cause of my X failing?
[11:55] <lamont__> I suppose it could
[11:55] <mdz> Riddell: new upstream versions?
[11:56] <shackan> pitti, how u doin' ?
[11:56] <BenC> it didn't start until I did the ubuntu install :)
[11:56] <pitti> shackan: tired, but fine. I'll go to sleep soon
[11:56] <mdz> Kamion: why isn't powerpc64 necessary?
[11:56] <Riddell> mdz: yes
[11:56] <BenC> I've been seeing "floating-point assist fault" messages from some programs
[11:56] <mdz> oh, we don't build a UP powerpc64 kernel
[11:56] <mdz> Riddell: the process is to ask me
[11:57] <Kamion> mdz: ... right
[11:57] <mdz> Riddell: email with a rationale is best
[11:57] <shackan> pitti, geek never go to sleep befor dawn :D
[11:57] <BenC> well, time to reboot and see how things go
[11:57] <shackan> *before
[11:57] <shackan> *geeks
[11:57] <shackan> damn, seems I'm tired as well
[11:57] <Kamion> BenC: you're one of the few people testing Ubuntu ia64, I think ...
[11:58] <lamont__> Kamion: very true.  I think the rest of us sit within 100 feet of my desk
[11:58] <lamont__> well, there are probably a few others..
[11:58] <elmo> and the 4 in the DC :P
[11:58] <mdz> will any of the l-r-m stuff actually work on powerpc64-smp?
[11:59] <mpt> Who's in charge of laptop support?
[11:59] <mdz> BenC: ia64 isn't really first-class yet; it would be a better idea to use one of i386/amd64/powerpc to get up and running
[11:59] <mdz> mpt: mjg59
[11:59] <mpt> mdz: ta
[11:59] <mdz> (as it says on the website)
[12:00] <pitti> ok, good night everybody!
[12:01] <Kamion> mdz: well, you're only building ath_hal with the volatile infrastructure on powerpc
[12:01] <Kamion> madwifi and the firmware bits are probably useful
[12:01] <mdz> Kamion: I've uploaded linux-meta to get things going
[12:02] <mpt> mdz: actually the relevant wiki pages are remarkably free of contact info
[12:02] <mdz> if stuff builds for me, I'll enable it
[12:02] <mdz> mpt: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/teams/
[12:02] <mdz> 2 clicks from the front page
[12:02] <mpt> oh, you mean Ubuntu has a site other than the wiki? *ducks*
[12:04] <mpt> mjg59: Is it possible/desired for people other than those who got Canonical laptops to join the laptop testing team? Now that those laptops have bene distributed, perhaps the LaptopTestingTeam wiki page could be updated to make that clear