[05:07] <jsgotangco> hey all
[09:15] <jsgotangco> grr i dont get it is hoary's xslt borked?
[10:29] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, http://linuxguy.biz/screenshots.html
[10:32] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, you want me to start work on the quickguide?
[10:32] <jsgotangco> sure please do this cookbook is getting hairy
[10:32] <Burgundavia> ok
[10:32] <jsgotangco> i'll just dive in when there's content already
[10:32] <Burgundavia> I sensed that
[10:33] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:33] <jsgotangco> that's a very nice page
[10:33] <Burgundavia> indeed
[10:33] <jsgotangco> but it didnt use the default background
[10:34] <Burgundavia> not much is default
[10:34] <Burgundavia> that is a sales page for someone
[10:34] <Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=292909#post292909
[10:34] <Burgundavia> last post ont hat page
[10:35] <jsgotangco> i sensed that
[10:35] <jsgotangco> i lookedat the frontpage
[10:36] <Burgundavia> I am going to steal his ideas
[10:36] <Burgundavia> I am thinking for the quick guide, one big sectin
[10:36] <Burgundavia> no sidebar
[10:36] <Burgundavia> I like the idea of staggered screeshots like that
[10:38] <jsgotangco> hmmm but you can't do that in docbook, you have to transform it to html to align it like that no?
[10:38] <Burgundavia> no idea
[10:38] <Madpilot> staggered screenies make the eye move back and forth, which is a good thing </amatuer design geek>
[10:38] <Madpilot> can't the Ubuntu wiki take CSS code like the Wikipedia engine can?
[10:41] <jsgotangco> i dont think moin was designed for that  at all
[10:41] <jsgotangco> (presentation-centric wiki)
[10:41] <jsgotangco> you can make some nasty workarounds though
[10:41] <Madpilot> too bad. the 'pedia wiki software can accept most CSS styles, without nasty workarounds
[10:42] <Burgundavia> moin can take some stuff
[10:42] <Burgundavia> see UserDocumenation
[10:42] <Burgundavia> the toc stuff
[10:43] <Burgundavia> what about dividing the quick guide into 2 sections
[10:43] <Burgundavia> 1st section is why ubuntu is great
[10:43] <Burgundavia> 2 or 3 items
[10:43] <Burgundavia> 2nd section is new stuff in breezy
[10:43] <Burgundavia> 5-10 iteams
[10:44] <Madpilot> Looking at the stuff on UserDocumentation, it looks like moin can accept enough CSS to do the alternating pictures that Burgundavia wants
[10:44] <Madpilot> just alternate float:right & float:left all the way down
[10:44] <Burgundavia> because I really like the 4 things on that guys page
[10:45] <Burgundavia> interface, office, software updates
[10:46] <Burgundavia> problem with the Quick Tour is that some of the cool stuff like gnome-power,beagle and network-manager might not make the cut
[10:47] <Madpilot> it's a Quick Tour - you're only going to cover the basics, not every cool thing
[10:47] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:48] <Burgundavia> well gnome-power and n-m are really one thing: better laptop support
[10:48] <Burgundavia> so is the ndisgtk stuff
[10:48] <Madpilot> and you're only going to want to cover the stuff that, a) ppl do 95% of the time, and b) basic security (ie updating)
[10:49] <Madpilot> so stick an bit on the end about "Ubuntu on your Laptop" for the power & network things?
[10:49] <Burgundavia> I am going to write a bunch of stuff
[10:49] <Burgundavia> then cut it ruthlessly
[10:49] <Burgundavia> and polish up the rest
[10:50] <jsgotangco> good idea just dump and clean
[10:51] <Madpilot> if you're going to copy that commercial page, copy the whole format: screenshot, 20ish words; next screenshot.
[10:51] <Madpilot> no paragraphs, no dissertations!
[10:51] <Madpilot> it's a pamphlet, not a booklet
[10:52] <jsgotangco> hmm that's great docbook doesn't even want a ulink aything with &
[10:52] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:52] <Burgundavia> that was my plan
[10:53] <Madpilot> for longer help guides, I like the way linuxcommand.org is laid out - TOC, and then medium-length bits - about 2-3 screens worth - with a "Next" link at the bottom
[10:54] <Burgundavia> that is very nice
[10:55] <Burgundavia> makes reading eas
[10:55] <Burgundavia> y
[10:55] <Madpilot> it's digestible and navigible - "do this, then move on to the next bit" - and if you need a quick ref after, it's all accessible
[10:56] <Madpilot> I've been thinking about something similar for the U wiki
[10:56] <Madpilot> because most of the questions on #ubuntu are "repos, Synaptic, mp3/restricted, Java", more or less
[10:58] <Burgundavia> was thinking about the media stuff today
[10:58] <Madpilot> ?
[10:58] <Burgundavia> my thought was to create two new pages
[10:58] <Burgundavia> PlayingMusic and PlayingMovies
[10:58] <Burgundavia> and then making the various formats subpages of them
[10:59] <Burgundavia> leave restrictedformats in place, just link to the new structure
[10:59] <Burgundavia> so for .avi, it would by PlayingMovies/Avi
[10:59] <Madpilot> why? none of that stuff is very long, it all fits nicely on one page
[10:59] <Burgundavia> search
[10:59] <Madpilot> and most ppl want the whole set of codecs, not just one or two
[10:59] <Burgundavia> currnet default search is by title
[11:00] <Madpilot> right, and search "avi" returns nothing about video formats
[11:00] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:00] <Madpilot> "mp3' returns nothing at all...
[11:00] <Madpilot> you've got a point - but do it backwards
[11:01] <Madpilot> create all those named pages - then redirect them to RestrictedFormats
[11:01] <Burgundavia> sure
[11:01] <Burgundavia> by restricted means nothing and is quite long
[11:01] <Burgundavia> PlayingMusic does
[11:01] <Madpilot> remember the *rest* of our resources. restricted is all over ubotu's database, for starters
[11:01] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:02] <Burgundavia> that is why you make Restricted a two link page
[11:02] <Burgundavia> and fix ubotu
[11:03] <Madpilot> "good URLs don't change" - leave Restricted, with all it's contents. create the new pages for the search engine. don't have to mess with ubotu then either
[11:03] <Burgundavia> good urls do not hcange, that is what redirects are for
[11:03] <Madpilot> the new URLs - /mp3 and the rest - are hacks for moinmoin's search engine, that's all
[11:04] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:04] <Burgundavia> but PlayingMusic and PlayingMovies is not
[11:04] <Madpilot> remember what I said about most people wanting *all* the codecs, not just one or two
[11:04] <Burgundavia> would you rather tell Andrea to go to PlayingMovies or to RestrictedFormats?
[11:04] <jsgotangco> brb
[11:05] <Burgundavia> the wiki is still very much in its formation period
[11:05] <Burgundavia> now is the time to make these changes
[11:05] <Madpilot> good point... so hack it up this way: leave Restricted in place, with no content but two links to Movies & Music
[11:05] <Burgundavia> and one to Java
[11:05] <Burgundavia> that is what I just proposed
[11:06] <Madpilot> then create the rest of the pages /mp3 and all - and redirect them to the appropriate Movies or Music page
[11:06] <Burgundavia> sure
[11:06] <Madpilot> and don't bother ubotu, unless you really want to
[11:06] <Burgundavia> and then fix ubotus link
[11:06] <Burgundavia> why not?
[11:06] <Madpilot> remember what I said about most people wanting *all* the codecs, not just one or two
[11:07] <Burgundavia> yes
[11:07] <Madpilot> and I know i just said that, but it bears repeating
[11:08] <Burgundavia> lets hash out the content on the new pages and then do the switch
[11:08] <Burgundavia> the sooner we get good content in place, the less likely we are going to have to deal with crap
[11:09] <Madpilot> true
[11:09] <Madpilot> redirect on moin is "## <name of target page>", right?
[11:10] <Burgundavia> #REDIRECT PageToBeRedirectedTo
[11:10] <Burgundavia> ## is a comment
[11:10] <Madpilot> thanks
[11:10] <Burgundavia> same as wp markup
[11:10] <Madpilot> you creating PlayingMusic & PlayingMovies, then?
[11:11] <Burgundavia> no
[11:11] <Madpilot> ?
[11:11] <Burgundavia> going to bed, like I wanted to 2 hours ago
[11:11] <Burgundavia> but couldn't
[11:11] <Madpilot> couldn't? the computer grabbed you and wouldnt let go?
[11:11] <Burgundavia> no, couldn't sleep
[11:12] <Madpilot> ah. yeah, I'm going to crash too. been a long day. g'night
[11:12] <Burgundavia> night
[03:55] <mgalvin> hi all
[04:24] <jjesse> hello mgalvin
[04:30] <zAo^> how can I play a DVD-ISO?
[04:31] <mgalvin> zAo^: did you try asking on #ubuntu? they should be able to help you there with stuff like that
[04:32] <zAo^> sorry; wront chan :-)
[04:32] <mgalvin> np :)
[04:37] <jjesse> another slow day in the doc channel :)
[05:43] <Mez> WANTED: very brave user with Ubuntu hoary who doesnt mind reinstalling
[05:46] <Kinnison> What for?
[06:01] <Mez> testing a package
[06:01] <Mez> #ubuntu-testing
[06:02] <Kinnison> Perhaps not
[06:45] <mpt> jjesse: You using Breezy?
[07:05] <jjesse> nope
[07:05] <jjesse> kubuntu on hoary
[07:05] <jjesse> sorry was afk mpt
[07:06] <mpt> So if it's a slow day, are you busy writing docs? :-)
[07:06] <jjesse> grin in between solving all the problems at work yes i'm working on the kuesrguide
[07:08] <jjesse> is there a cd build for kubuntu and breezy?
[07:10] <mpt> I'm just unable to write about Breezy-specific stuff before I install it, and unwilling to install it because I need to be doing work on this machine
[07:12] <jjesse> i have that same problem, i do have a test box, but its at home where i am !broadband so looking for a cd install of kubuntu breezy
[07:12] <mdke> mpt, new partition?
[07:12] <mpt> that's a possibility
[07:13] <jjesse> dual boot hoary and breezy?
[07:13] <mpt> this machine is badly partitioned as it is
[07:13] <mdke> jjesse, you could always do a breezy server install and then do a apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[07:13] <mdke> or does !broadband mean no broadband?
[07:20] <jjesse> no broadband
[07:20] <jjesse> i have dial up at home
[07:20] <mdke> ah gotcha
[07:20] <mdke> better ask in #kubuntu-devel if they have colony cd's out
[07:22] <jjesse> ok
[07:22] <mdke> they have daily builds
[07:23] <mdke> no idea if they work tho
[07:23] <jjesse> asking right now
[07:23] <mdke> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/
[07:32] <jjesse> just download one of the isos and then i can install it
[08:49] <judax> hehe, how come I didn't get kicked and all of you did?
[08:49] <mpt> coz you're speshul
[08:49] <judax> I guess
[09:03] <jjesse> grin no clue
[10:39] <Burgundavia> I cannot seem to do nested tables
[10:40] <Burgundavia> no bloody div support either
[10:43] <sladen> ...at least it's not as bad as ReStRuCtUrEdToRtUrE
[10:52] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:52] <Burgundavia> I am trying to emulate this layout: http://linuxguy.biz/screenshots.html
[10:52] <Burgundavia> not that hard in mediaiwiki
[10:52] <Burgundavia> simply float the image left
[10:52] <Burgundavia> but moin needs to wrap the image in a table to float left|right
[10:52] <Burgundavia> and cannot accept nested tables
[12:03] <Burgundavia> ok, really ugly first draft up 
[12:03] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuickTourDraft?action=show