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bradbok, sanity check: is trying to login to the wiki telling other people "Sorry, wrong password" too?12:38
carlosjordi, pong01:11
jordicarlos: way too late01:11
jordiI'm shutting down, I wanted to import a few things, with you watching.01:11
carlosjordi, sorry, I just come back from my parents' house01:11
carlossee you tomorrow01:12
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spivjamesh: Around?04:50
jameshspiv: yeah04:51
spivjamesh: The pending-reviews output for lifeless' arch-pqm branch seems weird to me.04:52
spivThere are conflicts that remove entire files.04:53
jameshI just registered his robert.collins@c.c--general archive in my chinstrap home dir this morning04:53
spivI just wanted a quick sanity check from you to know if it really does have crazy conflicts, or if you think something funny is going on.04:54
jameshcould be star-merge picking a bad ancestor04:55
spivWell, pqm star-merges too.04:56
jameshI'd ask lifeless, but he's on holiday04:57
spivRight :)04:57
bob2hm, is there a reason bug activity isn't the default bug view?04:57
jameshhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/robert.collins@canonical.com--general/arch-pqm/arch-pqm--main/arch-pqm--main--0/patch-7/log shows the last item is a merge from rocektfuel04:58
spivWhich means it shouldn't have crazy conflicts, I would have though.04:59
spivI see a patch-52 from here.05:01
jameshhis public archive05:01
spivAh, right.05:02
spivThere's two branches there.05:02
spivI got confused :)05:02
spivOk, I have another question...05:03
spivAh, you removed the other one because it was already merged?05:03
jameshspiv: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/lifeless-pqm.patch <- without --star-merge05:04
spivSo it was a dud merge.  Ta.05:04
jameshthe type of dud merge PQM will have trouble with too05:05
spivBut that's something lifeless can sort out, I only need to mention it in passing in a review.05:07
jameshI wonder if lifeless just did a full rocketfuel merge to his public archive, or a selective one?05:07
jamesh(which might account for weird merging)05:07
jameshbob2: you mean the "activity log" malone page?05:10
jameshspiv: w.r.t. Mark's branches, I think the comment on PendingReviews says it all: "I'm not sure - I want the diff magic to show me!."05:55
jameshhe's not after a review yet -- just wants the stats page to track the diff, conflicts, etc for him05:55
jameshmaybe it should have been tagged doesn't-need-review-yet or somehting :)05:55
spivjamesh: Well, he should have put it in his own queue then ;)06:00
=== jamesh grumbles about lost attribution in the "get info" pages of the wiki
spivIn theory that could be fixed.06:06
jameshI noticed that the names got fixed while the wiki was in Brazil06:06
jameshbut the changes since the moin 1.3 upgrade were broken06:07
spivSo long as everyone has the same wiki name in Launchpad as in the old wiki, it would be possible to write a script to migrate the old IDs to the new ones.06:07
jameshnow its switched back, so the data should all be there06:07
spivThe problem is that in Brazil, we were using plain moin 1.3.  We're now back on Launchpad auth, which uses different user ids under the covers.06:07
jameshwell, it is a problem that will become less important as time goes on06:10
spivIf we keep running local wikis for sprints, it'll be a recurring issue though.06:12
jameshI think this was just a one off06:12
jameshit's a pain for the people not at the sprint06:12
elmono, we'll do local wikis as most meetings06:12
elmowell meetings where everyone is there06:12
elmoand it's easily avoided, since AFAIK we'll allowed to do the LP auth from anywhere, so next time I just need to give the data and the moin packages06:13
jameshwith the way the Launchpad sprint was structured, only somewhere between a third and a half the team were in Brazil at any one time though06:14
spivWell, it wouldn't be hard to run a local authserver for a local wiki.06:14
jameshif the wiki was moved to Brazil but still accessible, it wouldn't have been too bad06:14
jamesheven if it was slower06:15
spiv(It'd be a variation what we're planning for AuthserverCaching)06:16
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yanivHello all! I had just noticed that Gaim is listed four times in the Hebrew Translation part of Rosseta, and at a glance, all version seemed identical. Does someone know anything about this? Is this a mistake, and we are doubling our work, or is it supposed to be like this?08:21
jameshyaniv: what URL are you looking at?08:26
jameshnot sure.08:28
yanivjamesh:if you search the page for gaim, you'll see it's list four times, (gaim-1, gaim-1 etc.) and the templates seem the same08:28
jameshyeah.  if you click on the "source" column header they're all next to each other08:29
jameshyaniv: the Rosetta guys should be waking up soon, so if you wait a bit you should get an answer08:30
jameshthey're on European time08:30
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sivangjamesh: I have the bonobo helper lib ready, I will be sending it for your review soon09:39
sivangjamesh: I'm sure I have an handful of warths, make sure you let me know of them so I can fix *and* learn :)09:40
sivangjamesh: btw, must I use the autogen.sh script or make dist with it or can I drop it out of the tarball distribution?09:41
jameshsivang: to get a tarball, you should run ./autogen.sh, then "make distcheck"09:41
sivangjamesh: ok, I'll do that shortly. up until now I just used "make dist" to move the tarball around between palces I worked in09:43
jameshsivang: "make distcheck" makes a tarball, unpacks it and does a build, then tries to create a tarball from that copy09:44
jameshit helps pick up bugs that'd bite you further down the track09:44
sivangjamesh: cool , thx for the info :)09:55
sivangjamesh: I alwasy do make clean and make dist clean before I reattempt building etc, is this ok?09:57
jameshsivang: shouldn't be necessary09:58
jameshsivang: "make distcheck" should give you a tarball suitable for building a package09:58
sivangjamesh: k, now, I get some autogen warnings. Should we continue this in a more appropriate channel (g-l, or g-h maybe? )09:59
sivang(feeling autotools stuff is getting bit OT for here)10:00
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jameshhi SteveA 10:09
SteveAhello jamesh10:10
SteveAi want to get the schemas that are used only for browser stuff moved into the launchpad/browser/ package somewhere10:11
SteveAthis is kind of linked to making the autogenerated calendar forms have more user-oriented description fields10:12
jameshjust schemas, or all interfaces that are browser specific?10:12
SteveAbecause we can put schemas in there that extend the schoolbel schemas, but with improved descriptions (improved from the end-user point of view)10:13
SteveAthat's a good question.  i don't know if we have any browser-specific interfaces that are not schemas10:13
jameshI have some for calendar date ranges10:13
jameshthe implementations are in browser/cal.py10:14
SteveAdate ranges sound very generic to me.10:15
SteveAmore "structural", if you see what i mean10:15
SteveAso i guess we can keep them in launchpad/interfaces/10:15
SteveAwhat do you thin?10:15
jameshit sounds like a good idea10:16
jameshsince the schemas used for data entry are likely to be similar to the interfaces for the real database objects10:16
jameshand we probably don't want them mixed up10:16
SteveAmark originally wanted them to be kept together, because of the "keep all interfaces in one place" principle.  but, in brazil, he'd had sufficient experience of using them to come around to keeping them separate.10:17
SteveAthis is what zope3 does, more or less10:17
SteveAso, we need to decide where to put them in browser code10:18
SteveAwe can move them from interfaces/whatever.py to browser/whatever.py10:18
SteveAthat way, there's no new modules being created10:18
SteveAand the schemas are in the same module as they are most likely to be used in10:19
jameshso we won't do something like browser/interfaces.py?10:19
SteveAreducing the number of imports needed10:19
jameshokay.  that makes sense10:19
jameshthe "hard to find" aspect isn't as big a deal, for interfaces with only a single use10:20
SteveAin zope3, the standard is to put "external" interfaces in interfaces.py10:20
SteveAbut "internal" interfaces near to where they are most often used10:20
SteveAeveryone should be using ctags anyway10:21
jameshso do we want to go through and move all browser level interfaces, or just keep it in mind during reviews?10:21
SteveAwe should get them all moved into the right places.10:22
SteveAand also keep it in mind during reviews ;-)10:22
jameshokay.  You mentioned extending the schoolbell interface for a data entry schema10:23
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jameshis that possible without redefining all the properties?10:23
jamesh(which is pretty much a new interface)10:23
SteveAit may be possible to say something like10:24
SteveA class SchoolBellForBrowser(SchoolBellOriginal):10:24
SteveA     foo = SchoolBellOriginal.foo10:24
SteveA     foo.description = _("Better description")10:24
SteveAi don't know for sure, though.10:25
jameshthat's going to update SchoolBellOriginal.foo.description though10:25
SteveAoh yeah10:25
SteveAi am still jetlagged ;-)10:25
SteveAso, you could do10:25
SteveA foo = BetterDescription('foo', "Better description")10:25
SteveAwhere BetterDescription does:10:25
SteveA - look up 'foo' from SchoolBellOriginal or its bases10:26
SteveA - clones foo, provided it is a Field.  raises TypeError otherwise.10:26
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SteveA - resets the description on the clone10:26
SteveABetterDescription would use the "class advice" hook10:27
SteveAso it actually runs after the SchoolBellForBrowser class suite is interpreted10:27
SteveAdo you know about the class advice hook?10:28
SteveAit is a fancy metaclasses trick10:28
SteveAi will get you some code, just a sec...10:29
spivSteveA: Seems very magical.  Can't you just use foo = copy.copy(SchoolBellOriginal.foo); foo.description = _("Better description")?10:29
SteveAcopy.copy sounds very magical to me ;-)10:29
spivYou do have a point there ;)10:30
SteveAbut, if that works, it's great.10:30
SteveAi don't know if Fields support being copied.10:30
SteveAcopying uses pickle10:30
spivBut I'd rate copy.copy as lesser evil than metaclasses ;)10:30
SteveAi think10:30
SteveAso if it does, it won't work10:30
SteveAthe class advice hook is what 'implements(IWhatever)' uses10:31
jameshspiv: do you think sqlobject should have a converter for set instances?10:31
spivWell, it falls back to some of the same infrastructure as pickle, without actually pickling.10:31
SteveAjamesh: so you now have two approaches, either of which *might* work :-)10:32
SteveAsee zope/interface/declarations.py for how advice is used, using addClassAdvisor10:32
jameshthat code is evil :)10:33
SteveAi'm only partly responsible :-)10:33
=== jamesh hadn't considered using a non-type for __metaclass__
spivjamesh: 10:34
spiv>>> class Ten(1,2,3,4):10:34
spiv...     __metaclass__ = lambda n,b,d: sum(b)10:34
spiv>>> print type(Ten), Ten10:34
spiv<type 'int'> 1010:34
jameshI can see why it all works10:35
spiv(It such a shame Python doesn't let you say "class Ten(*range(5))"...)10:35
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SteveAjamesh: can you move over the appropriate schemas to browser/ at the same time you improve the calendar schemas? 10:37
SteveAhi carlos10:39
SteveAcarlos: what do you think about the message-id / original text in a comment thing that zope / plone uses?11:09
SteveAwe'll be using this in a few places in launchpad too, i expect11:09
SteveAbecause of how page templates i18n works11:09
carlosSteveA, It should not be too difficult to implement a way to show it11:10
carlosin fact... I think it should work already11:10
carloshmmm, no, perhaps no, as we only show comments that come from source code11:10
carlosbut should be easy to extend Rosetta to show those other comments11:10
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SteveAit would be a good thing to do soon, so the plone people can use rosetta well11:12
carlosthe change to show those comments should be trivial, will try to do it later today11:13
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jstrhey guys how long does it take for the verification email to be posted?11:15
SteveAjstr: do you mean for verifying that an email address is your own?11:16
jstrwhen you sign up for membership, and an email gets sent to address that you provide11:17
SteveAit gets sent to you immediately11:17
SteveAany delay is from the normal short delay in sending email, or a longer delay if there's a routing problem to your mail server, or a *very* long delay if the address was mistyped11:18
SteveAwe had a problem a few weeks ago where there was a misconfiguration in the launchpad internal mail systems, and mail wasn't getting out.  we fixed that, though.11:19
jstrits the right address... i think its just my slow crappy uni email address... oh well ill just wait it out11:19
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carlosSteveA, btw, could you send me the emails about the pending reviews from daf?11:40
carlosSteveA, so I can finish the review changes and merge the branches?11:40
SteveAcarlos: i don't know what you need11:48
carlosSteveA, you told me on Brazil that i should take care of the open reviews that daf has while he's offline11:48
carlosSteveA, so you told me that this week you woul try to send me the review emails sent to daf so I can merge those changes after the review changes are applied11:49
carlosdo you remember it?11:49
SteveAi can't find any emails about these reviews11:52
SteveAso, i'm not sure where they will be11:52
carlosSteveA, ok11:52
carlosI will send an email to daf just in case he reads it before coming back to work 11:53
carlosstub, I just requested a merge into rocketfuel for two fixes that should be cherry picked into production11:57
carlosstub, could you do it today?11:57
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carlosone of the fixes needs also that you execute a script to migrate data11:58
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Kinnisonstub: can I ask you to cast an eye over daniel.silverstone@canonical.com--desktop/launchpad--rework-package-db--0 ?12:14
Kinnisonstub: So far it's just all the database stuff for renaming BinaryPackage to BinaryPackageRelease and shuffling the publishing stuff around a touch more12:15
Kinnisonstub: but it's quite a bit of db shuffling so I'd appreciate your eye on it12:15
carlosstub, btw, the error that you got with the whitespace migration script is a matter of move the .commit to another line and that should be all... I'm going to merge that fix too so we can finish that migration too12:22
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WaterSevenUbhi... suppose I download "nano" po file from rosetta (breezy), and upgrade hoary to the latest nano breezy. Should the translation match the version of breezy?01:08
jordiWaterSevenUb: in theory yes01:12
jordiWaterSevenUb: it doesn't?01:12
WaterSevenUbjordi: well... some of the strings that are translated in the PO file, like in the "help" text of "nano", when I run the program appear in the original (english), not translated.01:14
jordiWaterSevenUb: any other very visible string?01:15
jordiWaterSevenUb: what language?01:15
WaterSevenUbjordi: ??, Portuguese01:15
jordiany other string that is translated but isn't showing up?01:16
WaterSevenUbjordi: there are a lot of strings that do not appear in the PO file... but from the translated ones that do not appear I'm only finding one... give me one minute.01:19
WaterSevenUbjordi: yes, there are... and what is more strange is that "Constantly show cursor position" in the PO file appears in "nano" as "Constant cursor position display"01:22
WaterSevenUbjordi: so it seems that I'm mixing versions...01:22
jordiWaterSevenUb: ok01:22
jordiwhat version of nano are you using? 1.3.8?01:22
WaterSevenUbjordi: yape...01:22
jordiWaterSevenUb: ok, from what I see, the translation in rosetta appears to be for 1.2.x (hoary)01:24
jordiI don't know why it's not tracking the breezy version yet.01:25
WaterSevenUbjordi: hmmm.. how do you see that?:)01:25
jordiWaterSevenUb: hmm, because I know the messages :)01:26
carlosjordi, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/nano/+pots/nano01:26
carlosjordi, that's breezy01:26
jordiI'm quite involved in nano upstream :)01:26
jordicarlos: why isn't it linked from https://launchpad.net/products/nano/+translations ?01:26
WaterSevenUbjordi: excellent! now I have someone to bother ;)01:26
carlosjordi, 1.3.7-201:26
carlosjordi, because what I told you yesterday, you need to link the sourcepackage with a product series01:27
carlosso they appear there01:27
jordicarlos: and we need to do this for every product? sounds like fun.01:27
carlosjordi, right ;-)01:27
carlosbut it only needs to be done once01:28
jordicarlos: so, https://launchpad.net/products/nano/+series/head/01:28
jordido I "Link to Ubuntu package"?01:28
carlosfuture releases should reuse that information, you would only change the series if it's different01:28
carlosjordi, I think you were missing the needed permissions..01:29
carlosam I right?01:29
jorditotally right01:29
WaterSevenUb(hhmm... about a small note in Rosetta, in the top of each template translation, indicating the version that the template matches?)01:30
jordiis nano not in breezy?01:30
jordiWaterSevenUb: more than the version, what branch01:31
carlosjordi, it is01:31
carlosWaterSevenUb, well, it supposed to match latest version of that package in the distribution you are translating into01:31
WaterSevenUbcarlos: :)01:32
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carlossorry, I killed my X server...01:33
WaterSevenUbjordi: can you send me a 1.3.8 PO file that I can work on while you try to sync things? Thanks.01:35
carlosWaterSevenUb, you can get it from the URL I pasted here01:39
jordiWaterSevenUb: There's a guy called Rui Azevedo or something who is working on pt (Portugal)01:41
WaterSevenUbcarlos: thanks! I'm still not used to the many links in launchpad, sorry.01:41
WaterSevenUbjordi: I am that guy:-p01:41
jordiWaterSevenUb: me neither :)01:41
jordiWaterSevenUb: oh, great :)01:41
jordiWaterSevenUb: well, you've got mail :)01:41
WaterSevenUbjordi: :)01:41
jordiWaterSevenUb: translating official GNU projects is a bit annoying at the beginning01:42
jordiyou'll read why01:42
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fixed the fuzzy flag set/unset when importing a published .po file (r=SteveA). Changed @@absolute_url with fmt:url + pagetest added and fixed transaction problems with the whitespace migration script [trivial]  (patch-2242: carlos.perello@canonical.com)02:00
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carlosSteveA, got the review emails from daf, I will try to merge those branches this week02:20
jordicarlos: I don't know why, but the breezy template of nano doesn't appear to be current.02:34
carlosjordi, the header says that it was generated on 2005-04-1202:35
WaterSevenUbcarlos: "POT-Creation-Date: 2005-07-06 11:47:56.556271+00:00\n"02:35
carlosjordi, perhaps the problem is that the .pot file shiped with nano is not in sync with the code?02:35
jordi"POT-Creation-Date: 2005-06-30 13:24-0400\n"02:35
jordithis is from the tarball in Debian02:36
WaterSevenUbcarlos: "POT-Creation-Date: 2005-07-06 11:47:56.556271+00:00\n" - this is from the header of the PO file I downloaded02:36
carlosjordi, is it the same we have in breezy?02:36
carlosWaterSevenUb, from Rosetta?02:36
WaterSevenUbcarlos: yes.02:36
carlosthen the problem is that the .pot file is outdated02:36
jordithat date matches the release date of nano 1.3.802:36
jordicarlos: where, in rosetta or the tarball?02:37
jordiit is ok in the tarball02:37
carlosjordi, the imported version is 1.3.7-202:38
carlosjordi, so perhaps that's the problem02:38
jordiyes, it is.02:39
jordithe strings WaterSevenUb is seeing untranslated chanegd between 1.3.7 and 13.802:39
carlosjordi, seems like something is previnting our scripts to import the 1.3.8 version02:40
carlosWaterSevenUb, jordi would you file a bug report about it, please?02:40
carlosthe tarball is there since 2005-07-22 so seems like there is a problem02:40
jordido you have logs?02:41
WaterSevenUbjordi: I leave that to you :)02:41
jordiWaterSevenUb: yeah, don't worry.02:41
carlosjordi, yeah, but it's not easy to find that and I'm a bit busy to look at it atm02:44
WaterSevenUbjordi: #?02:48
jordihmm. lost it02:49
jordiwait a sec02:49
jordi#   Bug #1729: nano 1.3.8 isn't imported in Rosetta02:49
carlosjordi, thanks02:49
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SteveAbradb: you know the wiki is back?03:36
bradbSteveA: yup, but login doesn't work for me ("Sorry, wrong password")03:37
SteveAbradb: use your launchpad password03:37
bradbthat's what I've always done03:38
bradbdo i have to use an lp email address now too?03:38
SteveAtry it03:38
bradboh, apparently i'm BradBollenbach2 now03:39
bradb(login with email worked, frighteningly enough)03:39
SteveAso, you need to ask stub to sort out BradBollenbach203:40
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SteveAbradb: you lost your subscribed pages, i think, with the upgrade to 1.303:47
bradbwas the upgrade botched?03:50
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SteveAi have no idea04:02
salgadoyo SteveA 04:04
SteveAhi salgado 04:05
salgadoSteveA, I have the feeling that today you woke up with a special inclination for doing code reviews. (please tell me I'm right. ;)04:06
SteveAsure, i can do code reviews04:06
SteveAi'm off to the gym in a short while, though.  but, i can do reviews later today.04:06
salgadothat's great. do you still have my mail about the smallfixes--4 branch?04:07
SteveAno idea04:07
SteveAi see that jamesh reviewed that a while ago04:08
SteveAafter so long out of the normal flow of work, at the sprintathon, it's a good idea to send out fresh reminders of what you need from other people04:10
salgadoI just bounced the mail. maybe you can give a quick look on the lines "@@ -325,13 +349,17 @@ class ValidateEmailView(object):" of the diff (https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/guilherme.salgado@canonical.com/launchpad--smallfixes--4/filtered-diff)04:11
salgadojust to tell me how evil that hack is, and if I should remove it04:11
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SteveAwell, it looks okay to me04:15
SteveAi'd use the variable 'dupe_person_name' instead of 'dupe', and make it email.person.name04:15
SteveAbecause you are not using 'dupe' anywhere else04:15
salgadogodd point04:17
SteveAa comment would help, explaining that the next section of code is going to detect a dupe04:17
SteveAand if so, return text that tells the user they can merge accounts04:17
SteveAthe error message would ideally be given in the page template itself04:17
salgadoIIRC that's not possible because that method has to handle too many corner cases. to have the messges in the template I'd need to check a lot of possible return values from the method04:19
SteveAyou could have the method set self.is_dupe_email on the view instance04:20
SteveAor some other appropriate name04:21
SteveAand then simply check that in the template04:21
SteveAor, you can have more than one template for the view04:21
SteveAinclude them as ViewPageTemplate attributes04:21
SteveAand choose which one you want depending on what case you're dealing with04:21
SteveAthere are various ways of doing it04:22
SteveAmaybe the way you have chosen is already the simplest04:22
SteveAi can't say, without looking closely at all the code04:22
salgadoI think the way I choose is simplest than these ones you proposed, but I think it'd be better if I set some attributes in the view class and then move the messages to the template itself04:24
SteveAenglish language: "is simpler"04:26
SteveAthat sounds like a good plan, then04:26
SteveAit means that the text is in the page template04:27
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madducki have a burning question! was the name "Malone" chosen with any reference to Samuel Beckett?04:34
KinnisonBuggsy Malone (I imagine)04:35
mptyes, with one g04:39
mpt99 conflicts of code in the files, 99 conflicts of code ... Take one down and merge it around, 98 conflicts of code ...05:07
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madducki am not acquainted with Bugsy05:13
madducki read beckett over the weekend and it seems to be appropriate in places too. :)05:13
=== mpt wonders why baz resolved is leaving all the .orig and .rej files behind
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kokecan you see https://launchpad.net/people/koke05:33
kokeI've just merged two accounts and I can't see my personal page05:34
kikosalgado, another one :-(05:34
carloskiko, !05:36
carloskoke, !05:36
carlosconfusing, really confusing :-P05:36
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jblackkeybuk: ping06:31
Keybukjblack: yup?06:31
jblackAre you rather conversant on which debian guys work on which debian stuff? 06:31
Keybukdepends on the "stuff"06:32
jblackCool. You know awesome things. :)06:32
Keybukwhich things?06:32
jblackAll of them that you could rattle off that could be potentially be usefully revision controlled06:33
jblackMy goal is to chase down projects that need baz2 goodness, and help them across to it. 06:34
jblackDebian's internal stuff is a particularly sweet target, as they talk internally so much.06:34
Keybukwhat kind of internal stuff?  dak and so-on?06:36
jblackYeah. That and the install utils, anything that could be useful. I would target dpkg, but you're already sold I think. I've already sent an email off to apt. 06:37
jblackBasically, any deb project that could be revision controlled. If I get a handful of Deb guys selling it, then they'll sell the rest of debian over for me. (much like is happening with arch/gnome)06:38
Keybukapt would be mdz ;)06:38
Keybukdak would be elmo06:39
Keybukinstaller stuff is joeyh, who may be a hard convert from svn06:39
Keybukbut Kamion and bubulle are big on that team too06:39
mptkoke: If you subscribe yourself to https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1314 you'll be notified when the bug is fixed06:39
jblackHow about the install team? 06:40
mptkoke: Actually, make that 13106:40
=== mpt growls at his 3 key
=== koke subscribed, thanks
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mptIs there any way for a pagetest to say "this text does *not* occur anywhere"?07:12
bradb-lunchmpt: it's just python07:14
bradb-lunchso foo not in bar works07:14
bradb-lunchi don't know of a more readable way to do it07:15
mpt"it's just python" doesn't make something substantially easier for me :-)07:15
mptWhat would be "bar" in this case?07:15
bradb-lunch>>> 'foo' not in 'bar'07:15
bradb-lunch>>> 'foo' not in 'barfoo'07:15
bradb-lunchso, foo is a variable with a string value in it07:15
bradb-lunchand so is bar07:15
mptso foo = print http(r""" ... the rest of the test07:16
bradb-lunchno "print" there07:16
mptoh, I see07:17
mpt  >>> 'HTTP/1.1 200 OK' in output07:20
mpt  True07:20
mpt  >>> 'Your subscription to this bounty has been updated' in output07:20
mpt  True07:20
mpt  >>> 'Foo Bar' in output07:20
mpt  False07:20
bradb-lunchactually not so terribly unreadable, i guess07:21
bradb-lunchthe failure messages will be less informative, but then, they're already fully unreadable except by the most determined (and even then...)07:23
mpthmm, you have a point there07:23
mptif the test fails I can't tell why07:24
mptbut that's true even if I test for anything in the usual ...way...07:25
mptexcept for 500 errors, I guess07:25
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  add sampledata for sourcepackage bug list view class testing (patch-2243: brad.bollenbach@canonical.com)07:35
kikoi/o silver07:37
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carlossee you07:54
carloskiko, !07:58
carloskiko, I need to leave, do you need anything?07:58
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kikocarlos, wanted to touch base, are you around later, or only tomorrow?08:03
carloskiko, perhaps I will be around later, but I cannot give you a concrete time08:03
bradbSteveA: It seems as though we need a place to put classes that are "content classes" but are not tied to the database (e.g. BugTaskSearchParams is currently in the interfaces namespace :/) Would it be useful to create a canonical.launchpad.app namespace for this purpose?08:20
kikobradb, note that SteveA was the one that suggested placing it in interfaces08:24
bradbevil! I created an interface for it and am now looking for a good home for the content class08:25
kikobradb, note also that I have a patch here that moves createTask to IBugTarget as well, though I am not sure I like the general pattern so much here (I'm concerned we're straying from other launchpad patterns)08:25
kikowhen SteveA is around I'd like a reping08:25
bradbsure (i have to leave in about 20 mins for a bit, but maybe he'll be back before then)08:26
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bradbright, heading out for a bit, will read scrollback re: SteveA's/others thought on the .app namespace when i get back08:48
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SteveAbradb-bbl: BugTaskSearchParams should be in interfaces10:19
SteveAit is like an event10:19
SteveAor an exception10:19
SteveAit forms part of the contract between an IBugTarget and its user10:20
SteveAi don't expect to ever see more than one implementation of BugTaskSearchParams10:20
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stubGoddammit it is still black outside10:21
=== stub curses jet lag
SteveAcprov: noted about the meeting10:24
SteveAhi stu10:24
cprovSteveA: thank you man.10:25
SteveAbradb-bbl: don't create an interface for BugTaskSearchParams.10:25
SteveAit doesn't need an interface, the same as events and exceptions don't actually need interfaces10:25
SteveAit's just extra code to maintain10:25
kiko-afkheya stub 10:29
kiko-afkheya SteveA 10:29
kiko-afkdo we have a meeting tomorrow?10:29
SteveAsure do10:29
SteveAit is in the channel title10:29
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bradbno interface for BTSP...11:14
bradbSteveA: Should the interfaces package contain just interfaces, or should it contain things other than interfaces as well?11:15
bradb(like, say, BTSP_11:15
SteveAit already contains things other than interfaces11:15
SteveAit already contains things other than Interfaces11:15
SteveAbasically, it should contain those things required to use "the interface" to the software11:15
SteveAthese things include:11:16
SteveA - Interfaces11:16
SteveA - events11:16
SteveA - exceptions11:16
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SteveA - objects that represent the parameters to methods11:16
SteveAso, really, the package should be called 'interface' or perhaps 'api' instead of 'interfaces'.11:17
SteveAbut, zope3 has stuck with 'interfaces' as a convention.  we're broadly-speaking following what zope3 does.11:17
bradbSteveA: IOW, if a class is expected to only ever have one implementation, there should not be an Interface defined for it?11:20
SteveAthat's one criteria, but it isn't sufficient11:21
bradbdoes the apidoc tool generate docs specifically for things that inherit from Interface?11:21
SteveAyou can say: if a class is expected to only ever have one implementation, then you may consider not defining an interface for it.  There are, however, other good reasons to define interfaces for many things.11:22
SteveAin launchpad, we don't need to define interfaces for: interfaces (they already exist), events, exceptions, parameter objects.  Sometimes, the zope3 infrastructure makes things more convenient when we define an interface, for example for events or exceptions in some cases.11:23
SteveAbut, this is arguably a shortcoming in zope3, rather than a best practice.11:23
SteveAapidoc understands interfaces (things that provide IInterface)11:24
SteveAand apidoc understands a lot of other things besides11:24
SteveAi must go to bed now -- trying to curtail the jetlag.11:24
SteveAbefore i go11:24
SteveAanother way to look at the question of "where should BugTaskSearchParams go" is to consider what it is for11:25
SteveAit is part of the glue between browser code, or other application code, and database code11:25
SteveAyou can think of the stuff in 'interfaces' as the glue11:25
bradbit's an object used to talk to the database code.11:25
SteveAit isn't database code11:25
bradbnot necessarily limited to browser -> db interaction11:25
SteveAnor is it application code as such11:26
SteveAit is glue11:26
SteveAthat's why i said above "between browser code, or other application code"11:26
bradbright right11:26
SteveAdbschema stuff should really be in 'interfaces' too, but i'm not going to make that change just yet.11:27
SteveAfor one thing, there are name collissions between dbschema classes and database classes11:27
SteveAfor another thing, it is good to be able to clearly see what is a dbschema when it is used in code11:27
bradbit is indeed11:27
SteveAso, this needs some thought, and some new ideas11:27
bradbi wonder if BTSP belongs in searchbuilder then?11:28
SteveAi'll probably move it into canonical/launchpad/dbschema.py as a first step, though11:28
bradbor does the searchbuilder stuff belong in interfaces?11:28
SteveAit belongs with the interface that defines the operation it is used in11:28
SteveAthat interface is IBugTarget, right?11:28
bradbor IBugTaskSet, i believe11:29
bradbyes, IBugTaskSet as well11:29
SteveAso, it belongs right next to IBugTarget or IBugTaskSet11:29
SteveAi see what you mean about searchbuilder, though11:29
SteveAwhere is that at the moment?11:29
bradb.py, even11:30
SteveAso, i guess it could go there.  but, i seems a bit odd to me.  i wonder what others think.11:30
bradbI'd happily get rid of searchbuilder entireliy11:30
bradbNULL could simply be None11:31
SteveAwell, one thing at a time11:31
SteveAi'm off to sleep.11:31
SteveAsee you tomorrow -- launchpad meeting, btw11:31
bradbok, i'll roll back the iface definition for BTSP, thanks. see you tomorrow morning.11:31
bradbkiko: so, there you go, i guess BugTaskSearchParams does belong in interfaces then because 1. it's part of the launchpad API and 2. we don't expect to have another implementation for it.11:35
bradbthere might be other reasons as well, but those were the two that i gathered to be the most important from talking to SteveA 11:36
kikobradb, do you think that doing IBugTarget.createTask is a good thing?11:37
kikoI have it done in my local tree but am still unsure11:37
bradbkiko: no, but i also don't think .searchTasks is particularly useful either. my thinking might be entirely wrong though.11:38
bradbkiko: do you think createTask is a good thing?11:39
bradb(or, put slightly differently, why are you unsure?)11:40
kikosearchTasks is useful if you want to do generic queries independent on what target it is11:41
bradbright, unless they evolve to have different params (like createTask)11:43
bradbat which point the value of IBugTarget's current API would seem to diminish11:43
kikodifferent params?11:44
kikoin what sense, bradb?11:44
bradbactually, they already do have different search params11:44
bradbe.g. you wouldn't search for a specific sourcepackagename in an upstream11:44
bradbor bp name11:44
kikogood point11:44
kikothose are the only ones, right?11:45
kikowe could use params inheritance :-)11:45
=== bradb watches a mental movie of the sab hearing that news
kikoit's unfortunate -- I think the proper design would be to use a hierarchy of adapters (BaseTaskCollection and ProductTaskCollection, for instance) but it's not my call11:47
kikoand you'd adapt product to ITaskCollection11:47
kikobut that's subsets, isn't it?11:48
bradbi was just going to say...11:48
jblackstevea: ping11:48
bradbi would agree that it's not as evil as it sounds though11:48
jblacknah. he's sleeping11:48
kikoit solves the problem better than a params instance11:48
=== jblack stands in line behind bradb for kiko
kikobut let's let sleeping dogs lie11:49
bradbkiko knokws how to multi-task11:49
bradbkiko: right11:49
kikocreateTask() however does clean up some pretty gnarly if/elsing in one callsite11:49
jblack17:44 < madduck> jblack: ok. lemme top off the night by telling you something11:49
jblack                 about me, and why i am even here...11:49
jblack17:44 < madduck> i may well switch my phd field to workflow and productivity11:49
jblack                 management11:49
jblack17:46 < madduck> so one of my first goals would be to improve the way teams11:50
jblack                 work on packages, and how to support multiple distros from a11:50
jblack                 single source11:50
kikoit appears that the pattern of the callsite not knowing what sort of target it has in its hand may not be that common11:50
jblack17:46 < madduck> jblack: i'll be watching ubuntu, but i want to concentrate on11:50
jblack                 debian11:50
jblack(I didn't paste every line of his)11:50
kikojblack, the best place for him to work is launchpad11:50
bradbkiko: interesting observation.11:51
jblackBasically, a guy is doing his phd on workflow analysis, wants to study the relationship between patchflow between distros.11:51
kikoobserving relationships inside hct11:51
kiko(provided sourcerer is observing these distros)11:51
jblackHe's talked to Mark at least once, has heard of hct. Seems like a good guy to tell more about.11:51
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Burgundaviahow do I assign a bug to someone now?11:53
jblackImagine... launchpad being a thesis. 11:53
bradbBurgundavia: what screen are you looking at?11:53
bradbhey! what happened to the assign link!?11:54
bradbkiko: ^^ any idea?11:54
kikoBurgundavia, bradb: it's now edit/view a task.11:55
bradbi guess it was squished in favour of [edit] ?11:55
Burgundaviaoh there, ok11:56
bradbthe 1.0 announcement will include a link to the FAQ, question #1 being "How do I assign a bug?" :)11:56
bradbwhich should reduce the number of times that question has to be answered by about 10%11:56
Burgundaviathe edit link is a lot more sane than clicking the whole line11:57
BurgundaviaI just didn't see it11:57
bradbthat's our fault11:58
bradbbut...that's likely how it'll work for 1.0 as well11:58
kikowe could add an icon as mpt has suggested in the past11:59
bradbgiven that the only clickable link in that row now (AFAIK) is the edit/view link, an icon could be a good way of drawing it out more12:00
mptI could do that tomorrow12:00
bradbsounds good12:01
dilysMerge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/dists--devel--0: [trivial]  Update production-1.27 config (patch-104: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)12:02
Burgundaviait would be nice at the bug page to link to the main gnome-screensaver page with trranslations, bugs, etc.12:02
mptThat will happen automatically when12:03

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