[12:04] <mpt> (1) bradb makes the bug page context-specific, and 
[12:05] <mpt> (1) SteveA implements LaunchpadHierarchyNavigation so that the link to "gnome-screensaver" at the top is obvious instead of being stuff that people try to ignore because it's broken ~30 percent of the time
[12:05] <mpt> or (2), even
[12:05] <mpt> bradb: The existence of a FAQ generally means a fault in the design.
[12:05] <bradb> mpt: yup
[12:06] <Burgundavia> cool
[12:06] <kiko> stub!
[12:06] <bradb> mpt: we're going full steam ahead into an impossible to discover how-to-assign-a-bug page, but sabdfl has accepted that for now
[12:06] <kiko> rock on!
[12:07] <kiko> mpt, bradb: this problem may be alleviated when we have context-specific bug pages.
[12:07] <Burgundavia> the icon will make it better
[12:07] <bradb> kiko: right
[12:07] <kiko> we may convince the sab to eventually make the context-specific task more prominent or its data flickr-editable at some point
[12:07] <mpt> bradb: Can you insert some magic so that from the tasks-headline-whatsit I can get the task's priority?
[12:07] <kiko> mpt, task/priority?
[12:08] <mpt> bradb: e.g. tal:condition="task/priority/high"
[12:08] <kiko> oh
[12:08] <kiko> that's trickier
[12:09] <bradb> hmm
[12:09] <bradb> mpt: can it be solved by a more generic "task/priority/fmt:somehow"?
[12:10] <bradb> rather than a bunch of conditions in ZPT?
[12:10] <mpt> that's probably preferable
[12:10] <bradb> mpt: can you file a bug describing what you want and assign it to me?
[12:11] <mpt> ok
[12:11] <bradb> thanks
[12:11] <kiko> mpt, what are you trying to do?
[12:11] <mpt> Make the icon meaningful
[12:12] <kiko> there is an icon?
[12:12] <kiko> priority isn't listed in tasks-headline
[12:12] <kiko> interesting
[12:13] <mpt> bug-high.png, bug-medium.png, bug-low.png
[12:13] <bradb> right, i recently removed priority, which the sab strongly supported
[12:14] <bradb> of course, in the face of the severity vs. priority flamewar, there's bound to be people that think that's crazy to do
[12:19] <kiko> I see that priority makes sense when comparing bugs, not when viewing individual ones
[12:20] <kiko> it's marginally useful to see different priorities between tasks of a same bug, though
[12:22] <dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/dists--bazaar--1.5: new build (patch-76)
[12:22] <stub> eh?
[12:22] <bradb> she's trying on the bikini now...the moment of truth...
[12:23] <bradb> kiko: marginally perhaps, yeah
[12:23] <dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/bazaar--devo--1.5: Performance improvement for browse.c: don't use arch_last_revision (patch-62: Matthieu.Moy@imag.fr)
[12:23] <mpt> Neither of them are useful as long as they're being set to some default value when reporting a bug, though
[12:24] <stub> Bah - sound is dead. Will need to reboot soon..
[12:24] <kiko> mpt, agreed.
[12:24] <kiko> stub, made it back in one piece?
[12:25] <stub> kiko: Barely. Erupting from both ends on a plane is not fun.
[12:25] <mpt> Sound is dead at 46, truly an American icon
[12:30] <kiko> stub, how did you get sick?
[12:30] <kiko> I thought you were okay on friday
[12:34] <kiko> bradb, can you make the mail wrap less (only wrap at 82 chars or so)?
[12:36] <stub> kiko: If it is food poisoning, I suspect the Pizza Hut pizza at Sao Paulo airport (although Spiv ate it too and was fine).
[12:36] <kiko> stub, pizza hut in that airport is usually okay
[12:37] <stub> mail should wrap at < 80 characters or text mode people will bitch (well.. they used to... only those Mutt ludites left now I guess)
[12:37] <spiv> I think I'm usually pretty resilient against food poisoning.  Mary has gotten sick when I haven't, for instance.
[12:38] <carlos> the Canonical/Ubuntu conference curse....
[12:38] <kiko> stub, hmmm, well, at the moment we wrap at 72 chars and that's wrapping too much (quoted text looks freaky). maybe 80 will be okay
[12:39] <stub> That is about standard, so it can be quoted a few times and still look fine
[12:39] <stub> (can we just not wrap the emails in question and let the client do it? Or will that look wonkier?
[12:40] <bradb> whoa, the bikini was a SMASHING SUCCESS
[12:41] <bradb> eh, i thought i was wrapping it at 80 already. /me goes to check.
[12:42] <bradb> yep, it appears to already be wrapping at 80.
[12:43] <kiko> bradb, why is it mangling my email responses :-(
[12:43] <kiko> mpt even filed a bug today
[12:43] <kiko> bradb, woot!
[12:43] <spiv> bradb: I knew it would suit you ;)
[12:44] <bradb> heheh
[12:44] <bradb> vive les montralaises
[12:44] <mpt> kiko: Why aren't we using format=flowed?
[12:45] <mpt> ok, pagetests passed, PQM notified, I'm outta here
[12:45] <bradb> kiko: where's the bug about the wrapping problem?
[12:46] <bradb> i found nothing limiting to "wrap" in mutt
[12:46] <mpt> The bug I reported was about something that got wrapped at about 20 characters, not 72 or 80
[12:47] <bradb> what bug?
[12:58] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Remove broken milestones breaking db patch (patch-2244: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
[01:07] <bradb> (Pdb) release.name
[01:07] <bradb> u'sarge'
[01:07] <bradb> (Pdb) myrelease.name
[01:07] <bradb> u'sarge'
[01:07] <bradb> (Pdb) release is not myrelease
[01:07] <bradb> True
[01:07] <bradb> :/
[01:07] <bradb> spiv: shouldn't the last bit be False?
[01:08] <spiv> Different distros maybe?
[01:08] <spiv> Well, what's release.id and myrelease.id, and type(release) and type(myrelease)?
[01:08] <bradb> nope, i don't even think they can be (AFAIK, dr name is globally unique0
[01:08] <bradb> (Pdb) type(release), type(myrelease)
[01:08] <bradb> (<type 'zope.security._proxy._Proxy'>, <type 'zope.security._proxy._Proxy'>)
[01:09] <bradb> that's why, i guess
[01:09] <bradb> !@*#!&
[01:09] <spiv> Ah.
[01:09] <bradb> i guess i have to use .id and ==/!=
[01:10] <spiv> Yeah.
[01:10] <bradb> thanks for the debugging help. /me goes to get dinner. will try to be back later to finish the sp bug listing.
[01:12] <kiko> bradb-bbl, mpt: I sent mail about the wrapping issue
[01:27] <WaterSevenUb> where are located all the PO files in rosetta? can we get them via FTP or something? download them all for a specific language?
[01:27] <kiko> just visit the page for the template and download
[01:29] <WaterSevenUb> kiko: I want.... all the templates :) 
[01:29] <WaterSevenUb> kiko: the idea was if I can't make a search for strings in Rosetta I could do it locally :)
[01:32] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  add architecture icon; fix bug 1712 (GPG key interface confusing) (patch-2245: mpt@canonical.com)
[01:38] <kiko> I see
[01:46] <stub> There are no pofiles in rosetta, just database tables. Many features of Rosetta would be impossible if it worked directly on the pofiles. The pofiles are generated on demand, and we don't have a place where you could download, for example 'all pofiles for all products and all sourcepackages and all distributions and all distribution releases as of yesterday'. I'm not sure if we could.
[01:46] <kiko> we could but it would be a major performance drag
[01:49] <WaterSevenUb> aah, I understand... the only solution possible was to generate temporary packages available via FTP with the requested contents, which would be deleted after a while... for example....
[01:50] <WaterSevenUb> anyway, never mind :) thanks anyway.
[01:50] <stub> Yup. We have to generate a snapshot when Ubuntu or a derivative is being released, but it takes a while ;)
[02:30] <WaterSevenUb> stub: what happens to the templates that are not fully translated? Let us say... 99%... and other.... 40%.
[02:37] <WaterSevenUb> zzz
[08:57] <carlos> morning
[09:31] <nakeee> carlos: is there someone working on the rosetta bidi bug?
[09:32] <nakeee> carlos: is there anyway I can contribute to make it's solution faster?
[09:33] <carlos> nakeee, The main issue is that we need to check that it does not break anything and adapt our database to flag the languages that need that kind of fix
[09:33] <carlos> nakeee, If you know about extra information about it (other than the link to the HTML standard), that would help us a bit
[09:34] <carlos> nakeee, anyway, we are moving to a bug fixing phase so I think we will fix it soon
[09:34] <nakeee> well I can tell you hebrew and arabic needs it:)
[09:36] <jamesh> check what GTK does to pick the global text direction
[09:41] <carlos> jamesh, do you mean to get that list?
[09:41] <jamesh> check if the GTK po file translates "default:LTR" to "default:RTL"
[09:42] <jamesh> that'll give a starting point of languages that use RTL as the global direction
[09:42] <jamesh> or is this related to something else?
[09:42] <carlos> good idea
[09:42] <carlos> jamesh, no, it's just that
[09:42] <jamesh> doing a quick grep, I see ar, az_IR, fa, he and yi
[09:43] <jamesh> but GTK doesn't have translations for every language Rosetta knows about
[09:46] <carlos> jamesh, it should not be a problem, people can just ask us to activate it
[09:49] <nakeee> btw I think the bug severity is higher than just normal since rosetta is hardly usable for mixed bidi sentances
[09:49] <nakeee> and you see a lot of them when you translate arabic/hebrew:)
[09:51] <jamesh> carlos: do we set the lang attribute on the text boxes?
[09:52] <carlos> jamesh, no, that's what nakeee is asking for
[09:52] <carlos> jamesh, and what this bug is about
[09:52] <jamesh> carlos: he was asking about setting dir="RTL" where appropriate
[09:53] <carlos> jamesh, oh, is there a lang="" attribute?
[09:53] <carlos> I thought you were talking about dir...
[09:53] <jamesh> carlos: I mean like lang="en-AU"
[09:53] <carlos> jamesh, I have only see the lang attribute globally to the page but not per text box....
[09:54] <jamesh> if your web browser contained a spell checker, it'd be pretty cool if it could pick the right dictionary when spell checking the text box ...
[09:54] <jamesh> carlos: it is valid on any element
[09:54] <jamesh> (same as dir)
[09:56] <jamesh> carlos: it'd be worth setting lang="..." for the "similar language" translations too
[09:56] <jamesh> for CJK languages, it could help the web browser pick the appropriate font
[09:58] <carlos> jamesh, didn't know about it
[09:58] <carlos> jamesh, and wouldn't the browser choose the right input based on that field
[09:58] <jamesh> carlos: I don't know
[09:58] <jamesh> that would require some testing
[09:58] <carlos> instead of being us who set it
[09:59] <carlos> nakeee, could you try it?
[09:59] <carlos> if that works the fix is easier
[10:02] <jamesh> doesn't seem that lang="he" alone will give you RTL entry
[10:05] <jamesh> carlos: also, the example of dir="" use in the HTML spec reads as follows:
[10:05] <jamesh> <Q lang="he" dir="rtl">...a Hebrew quotation...</Q>
[10:05] <jamesh> indicating that both are required
[10:05] <jamesh> (or at least recommended)
[10:06] <jamesh> also: "User agents must not use the lang attribute to determine text directionality."
[10:11] <nakeee> carlos: it doesn't
[10:11] <nakeee> yea what jamesh said:)
[10:12] <nakeee> sorry was away chasing kids:)
[10:49] <SteveA> hi everyone
[10:58] <carlos> SteveA, morning
[11:03] <SteveA> hi carlos
[11:03] <SteveA> how's it going?
[11:03] <SteveA> jordi: will you be able to come to the launchpad meeting, in a few hours?
[11:04] <carlos> SteveA, fine, thanks
[11:05] <carlos> and you?
[11:06] <SteveA> ver fine
[11:06] <SteveA> very fine
[11:06] <SteveA> except the typing ;-)
[11:07] <carlos> :-P
[12:11] <carlos> how can I represent an octal number in python?
[12:12] <carlos> ok, found
[12:12] <Kinnison> hey stub
[12:12] <stub> yo
[12:13] <Kinnison> stub: have you had a chance to glance an eye over the rework patch I mentioned yesterday?
[12:18] <stub> Kinnison: patch?
[12:19] <Kinnison> stub: I asked you to cast an eye over daniel.silverstone@canonical.com--desktop/launchpad--rework-package-db--0
[12:21] <jordi> SteveA: I'm afraid I'm busy.
[12:21] <jordi> I can try, but I can't say
[12:22] <SteveA> jordi: if you can't make it, then give me your Three Sentences
[12:22] <WaterSevenUb> hey... what will be the criteria for translations in Rosetta that are, let us say, done up to 99% and other only up to 20%? both will be used?
[12:26] <jordi> SteveA: gimme 5m
[12:27] <SteveA> jordi: sure, any time before the meeting.  
[12:28] <SteveA> jordi: the three sentences are, one line each: DONE: (what you did over the course of the last week), TODO: (what you intend to do over the next week), BLOCKED: (anything that is stopping you from working effectively)
[12:46] <SteveA> jamesh: ping
[12:46] <jamesh> SteveA: yes?
[12:46] <SteveA> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/mark.shuttleworth@canonical.com/launchpad--ongoing-20050801--0/filtered-diff
[12:46] <SteveA> so, it looks like it is merged, but the pending reviews page doesn't know that
[12:47] <jamesh> SteveA: the patch level is "base-0"
[12:47] <jamesh> there are no changes on that branch
[12:47] <SteveA> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/mark.shuttleworth@canonical.com/launchpad--smallfixes-20050721--0/filtered-diff
[12:47] <SteveA> that one is on patch-36
[12:48] <SteveA> also, both of these are in the 'needs-reply' section of the page
[12:48] <SteveA> but, the tag on PendingReviews says 'needs-review'
[12:50] <jamesh> mark.shuttleworth@canonical.com/launchpad--smallfixes-20050721--0 is listed twice (once in Andrew's queue and once in yours)
[12:51] <jamesh> the non filtered diff shows two patch logs added (patch-35 and patch-36)
[12:51] <jamesh> each of which are rocketfuel merges
[12:51] <SteveA> aha.  maybe you can add a "parsing errors" section to the page
[12:52] <SteveA> to say things like "this appears twice" or "unrecognised status tag"
[12:52] <jamesh> I put "unrecognised status tag" in an "unknown" section below all the others
[12:52] <SteveA> ok
[12:52] <stub> Kinnison: I've not had to drop constraints like that before to do table renames. I normally rename the table and then rename constraints afterwards.
[12:53] <jamesh> but don't currently check for "this appears twice", since it is occasionally okay to appear twice (e.g. once in stub's queue and once elsewhere)
[12:53] <stub> Kinnison: In particular, renaming the primary key sequence and resetting the DEFAULT on the id column, adding duplicates of the constraints with new names, and finally dropping the old constraints.
[12:54] <SteveA> jamesh: okay
[12:54] <stub> (But if it does the Job, no need to refactor)
[12:54] <Kinnison> stub: Hmm, yes, I haven't renamed the id sequences
[12:55] <carlos> stub, what's the status of the migration scripts? did they work?
[12:55] <stub> carlos: still running
[12:56] <stub> Kinnison: You can also use ALTER TABLE to rename indexes rather than dropping and recreating them in many cases (but again, if it is working no need to refactor)
[12:58] <carlos> stub, both? or you are testing only one of them?
[01:00] <stub> carlos: 1.89 million rows scanned out of 5.5 million with the fuzzy flag one (I tweaked it to give meaningful status). And on production, we currently have over 10 million of them.... (we havn't synced the production db to staging for about a week)
[01:00] <stub> carlos: Havn't run the whitespace one yet
[01:00] <stub> carlos: So the fuzzy one has a day or so to run
[01:02] <stub> This is on staging of course - I need the results confirmed there before attacking the production data.
[01:03] <Kinnison> back in a bit
[01:03] <Kinnison> SteveA: I should be at the meeting unless my head explodes
[01:04] <SteveA> okay
[01:04] <SteveA> keep clear of those Scanners
[01:08] <carlos> stub, wow
[01:08] <carlos> so no language packs until next week, ok
[01:10] <stub> Kinnison: non UNIQUE index names should end in _idx rather than _key. I expect we might want some UNIQUE constraints (possibly replacing an existing index or three on the way), for example, ensuring that a binary package does not get published twice in the same distroarchrelease
[01:12] <stub> carlos: fwiw, it looks like almost all rows are being updated
[01:12] <carlos> stub, yeah, I will change it before the production run to optimize it
[01:12] <carlos> so if it's the same, we don't do the db update
[01:13] <carlos> that should speed it a bit
[01:13] <jordi> SteveA:
[01:13] <stub> carlos: I suspect SQLObject does that for us
[01:14] <carlos> stub, hmmm, ok, then I don't need to change the code...
[01:14] <stub> (but my output doesn't tell me that, so I can't see what percentage are actually being written)
[01:14] <jordi> DONE: reading rosetta-users, doing my first replies (after triple-checking with carlos ;), going over Rosetta, finding & filing bugs, basically getting comfortable with the interface; writing FAQ entries, etc.
[01:15] <carlos> stub, only breezy imports should be changing, and that's easy to check
[01:15] <jordi> TODO: start going through the import requests queue as soon as we're ready for that, continue writing FAQs from IRC/mailing list
[01:15] <carlos> stub, the problem is that if staging db is not in sync with production, the broken situation is not there as it came with latest breezy imports
[01:16] <carlos> so, anyway, the statistics would not be useful on staging
[01:16] <jordi> BLOCKED: some "No permissions" bugs in rosetta prevent me from editing series. Other similar bugs will probably be found as I try to do other operations.
[01:17] <stub> carlos: So I need to resync with production to verify the script does what is intended?
[01:17] <jordi> so, until a new production upgrade happens, some things I can't do as a Rosetta Expert.
[01:17] <jordi> SteveA: I think that's about it.
[01:17] <carlos> stub, is easier to check it that way, yes, because looking at breezy statistics you can see if the problem was fixed or not
[01:18] <carlos> stub, the code changes as the fuzzy strings are showed as updated from Rosetta, after fixing the database, they will be back to the usual "green" colour instead of purple
[01:45] <SteveA> thanks jordi
[01:53] <SteveA> T MINUS 8 MINUTES
[01:53] <SteveA> take a workrave now if you need to
[01:55] <SteveA>  /msg me any items for the meeting
[01:56] <Kinnison> stub: those will be interesting constraints on the publishing tables
[01:56] <Kinnison> stub: and as for names, I stuck with the names they had before. If you can tell me which you want renaming to _idx I can add those changes in when I do the sequence later today
[01:58] <stub> Kinnison: The constraints are just a thought - we need to describe them in english first. Rename all the _key indexes to _idx, since they are not UNIQUE
[01:59] <jblack> morning
[01:59] <Kinnison> okay
[02:00] <spiv> Meeting time...
[02:00] <SteveA> indeed
[02:00] <SteveA> MEETING STARTS
[02:00] <SteveA> who's here today?
[02:00] <bradb> me
[02:00] <jblack> me
[02:00] <stub> yer
[02:00] <jamesh> me
[02:01] <SteveA> salgado: say "me"
[02:01] <kiko> it is TIME
[02:01] <BjornT_> me
[02:01] <morgs> me
[02:01] <salgado> me
[02:01] <spiv> me
[02:02] <SteveA> i'll deliver apologies from:
[02:02] <SteveA>  - lifeless (vacation)
[02:02] <SteveA>  - keybuk (vacation)
[02:02] <SteveA>  - ddaa (vacation)
[02:02] <SteveA>  - daf (unwell)
[02:02] <SteveA>  - stub (unwell, but seems to be still here nonetheless)
[02:02] <SteveA>  - jordi
[02:02] <SteveA>  - cprov
[02:02] <SteveA>  - debonzi (university)
[02:02] <jblack> wow. Thats a lot
[02:03] <SteveA> it's that time of year
[02:03] <SteveA> let's have an agenda
[02:03] <kiko> I apologize for the sab
[02:03] <kiko> he's lost in the middle of porto alegre somewhere
[02:03] <kiko> mpt has a slow computer
[02:03] <SteveA> kiko: he's like, not on the launchpad team any more ;-)
[02:03] <mpt> Yeah, it's running Ubuntu
[02:03] <SteveA> mpt: say "here"
[02:03] <mpt> here!!!!
[02:03] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[02:03] <SteveA>  - roll call
[02:03] <SteveA>  - agenda
[02:03] <SteveA>  - activity reports
[02:03] <SteveA>  - flu like symptoms...
[02:03] <SteveA>  - vacations: lifeless, stevea
[02:03] <SteveA>  - next dogfood / database update
[02:03] <SteveA>  - three sentences
[02:04] <SteveA> 
[02:04] <SteveA> that was the first two items
[02:04] <kiko> I'm behind on activity reports, will reset on monday
[02:04] <kiko> (I need to travel tomorrow to help mark out)
[02:04] <mpt> I'm behind, I'll catch up today-ish
[02:04] <SteveA> activity reports: who's the dude, and who's gonna take that gun, and put it up (etc.) click!
[02:04] <jamesh> I'm behind.  Need to send ones for the time since the sprint
[02:04] <salgado> IIRC, I'm up to date
[02:04] <jblack> click
[02:04] <morgs> dude
[02:05] <bradb> I'm one day behind, but I'll definitely be sending both today.
[02:05] <stub> up
[02:05] <spiv> I'm up to date since Brazil (although I think I may have a couple missing from just before Brazil).
[02:05] <SteveA> okay, people who are behind, make sure you start by sending TODAY's
[02:06] <SteveA> it is more important to start freshly today, rather than worrying about the time since the sprint
[02:06] <SteveA> i mean, send them too if you have them.  but, make a fresh start for yourself today
[02:06] <SteveA> spiv: you had an item about flu-like symptoms
[02:06] <spiv> Right.
[02:07] <spiv> As you probably all know now, I arrived in Brazil with chicken pox.
[02:07] <spiv> It's not much fun to get as an adult.
[02:07] <spiv> Incubation time is 2-3 weeks... so if you get flu-like symptoms this week or next, see a doctor.
[02:08] <spiv> Apparently if you get anti-virals early, it will be much less severe.
[02:08] <spiv> Enjoy ;)
[02:08] <SteveA> flu-like is what?  fever, feeling crap, ... ?
[02:08] <spiv> Fever, headaches, aches, tired, general crapness.
[02:08] <jamesh> and some people get it twice
[02:09] <jblack> speaking of flus, did anybody figure out what a lot of people came down with after the whitewater trip? 
[02:09] <jblack> possibly whatever jamesh had a couple days prior?
[02:09] <SteveA> no idea, but scott had something with him when he arrived
[02:09] <mpt> I came down with a  soggy passport
[02:09] <SteveA> so, general crap sort throat virus thing
[02:09] <jamesh> jblack: I think what I had was related to the yellow fever vaccination
[02:10] <jamesh> it was pretty much gone in 24 hours
[02:10] <SteveA> if you get ill with something, tell me, kiko, rob as appropriate, and also mail claire if you're going to be off work.
[02:10] <SteveA> next item
[02:10] <SteveA>  - vacations: lifeless, stevea
[02:11] <SteveA> so, rob is on vacation this week and next week
[02:11] <SteveA> i'm going to be on vacation, and away from email, next week and the first half of the week afterwards 
[02:11] <SteveA> dates are on the StaffCalendar page
[02:11] <Kinnison> I'll be away tomorrow afternoon, but will pick it up
[02:11] <kiko> I'll be away tomorrow (apologies for the short notice)
[02:12] <SteveA> kiko will be running the show, with help from stu while i'm away
[02:12] <kiko> aham
[02:13] <SteveA> was that "amen" ?
[02:13] <SteveA> where's the canonical wiki? seems really slow to me...
[02:13] <spiv> It was there 10 min ago, it's slow for me now...
[02:13] <SteveA> everyone, please read https://wiki.canonical.com/TimekeepingPolicies
[02:13] <SteveA> this is the company policy on things like taking leave, day-swapping, and such things.
[02:14] <SteveA> Kinnison: so, if you want to swap half of tomorrow around, you need to talk with me or kiko to arrange it, after this meeting.
[02:14] <kiko> SteveA, remind me, did we complete satisfactorily the wiki transition?
[02:14] <Kinnison> SteveA: righty
[02:15] <SteveA> kiko: from .br to .com ?
[02:15] <mpt> kiko: No, all the old changes are unattributed, and all subscriptions were lost
[02:15] <jamesh> kiko: it seems to be working okay, and has updated content
[02:15] <SteveA> kiko: salgado puloaded the whole wiki, software and data, to elmo.  elmo put the data there, and maybe your scripts too.
[02:15] <jamesh> mpt: that's the account changover issue
[02:15] <mpt> So if you were subscribed to PendingReviews (for example), go resubscribe :-)
[02:15] <SteveA> kiko: can you check with elmo that things are as you need them?
[02:15] <jamesh> separate accounts for moin auth and launchpad auth
[02:16] <SteveA> kiko: also, we need to add a Copyright and trademark footer to the wiki.
[02:16] <kiko> so we do
[02:16] <SteveA> any more points on the subject of vacations?
[02:17] <SteveA> ok
[02:17] <SteveA>  - next dogfood / database update
[02:17] <SteveA> Kinnison: dogfood?
[02:17] <Kinnison> SteveA: Hi, I've been doing dogfood pretty much on-demand these past few weeks
[02:17] <Kinnison> the last update was a couple of days ago
[02:17] <Kinnison> If people want a dogfood update, prod me
[02:17] <SteveA> stub: production?
[02:18] <stub> Tuesday, tagged from today unless anyone bitches otherwise
[02:18] <SteveA> what's happening with that gina run?
[02:19] <stub> Gina is blocked on GPG key suckage tool, which is blocked on lifeless getting back from holiday (unless someone else takes it on)
[02:19] <jamesh> GPG key suckage tool?
[02:20] <stub> Staging Gina runs should be happier when the staging server gets more disk
[02:20] <SteveA> it works out things about duplicate people based on gpg things
[02:20] <SteveA> stub: when is staging getting more disk?
[02:20] <jamesh> okay
[02:21] <stub> SteveA: elmo is on it I believe. I havn't asked him for an ETA yet.
[02:21] <SteveA> jamesh: do you think you could finish this tool for lifeless?
[02:21] <kiko> jamesh, could you pick up the GPG suckage?
[02:21] <kiko> we roxor
[02:21] <SteveA> stub: is it on the sysadmin requests page?
[02:22] <jamesh> SteveA: has it been started?
[02:22] <SteveA> jamesh: yes
[02:22] <jamesh> (i.e. where is the code?)
[02:22] <SteveA> lifeless was hacking on it in the evenings in brazil
[02:22] <SteveA> i'll mail him about it
[02:22] <stub> not yet
[02:23] <SteveA> and cc jamesh and kiko
[02:23] <uws> Is launchpad accessible for any OSS project? even the small almost-personal ones?
[02:23] <SteveA> uws: sure.
[02:23] <jblack> uws: Yes.
[02:23] <kiko> uws, do it!
[02:23] <mpt> Yes, I started one that didn't even have any code until three days later
[02:23] <uws> heh
[02:24] <SteveA> mpt: slacker! ;-)
[02:24] <jamesh> Okay, I'll take a look.  I suppose I can ask Kinnison or someone else if I run into areas of GPG I don't know enough about
[02:24] <SteveA> thanks jamesh
[02:24] <SteveA> okay, let's talk about code reviews.
[02:24] <SteveA> any urgent ones that are outstanding?
[02:25] <salgado> SteveA, yes, the one I pointed out yesterday to you (smallfixes--4), and my person-edit branch
[02:25] <kiko> jamesh, it should be pretty easy; you have a good eye for security or privacy problems, and I think you'll find it fun
[02:25] <SteveA> uws: for some context, the development team are having a team meeting at the moment, for the next 15 mins or so.  you're most welcome to stick around.
[02:25] <SteveA> salgado: i'm doing that right now
[02:25] <morgs> SteveA: I have two branches in your queue from like before the sprint
[02:25] <SteveA> morgs: can you unconflict them please
[02:25] <morgs> SteveA, OK, will do
[02:26] <SteveA> fine.  i'm only here today and tomorrow, so do it soon
[02:26] <carlos> SteveA, I suppose that the code reviews will be done anyway next week, right?
[02:26] <SteveA> andrew, james, salgado and bjorn will still be doing reviews
[02:27] <carlos> ok
[02:27] <kiko> I can do some too
[02:27] <kiko> so assign to me if you want to be thrashed
[02:27] <SteveA> show no mercy, dude
[02:27] <jamesh> carlos: reviews should get back to normal now the wiki is back
[02:27] <SteveA> anything else pressing that we all need to discuss?
[02:27] <carlos> jamesh, yeah, I got a review answer yesterday
[02:28] <kiko> SteveA, let's talk about freenode? perhaps bzr?
[02:28] <SteveA> okay.  go for the freenode topic.
[02:28] <kiko> does anyone have a working relationship with lilo? 
[02:29] <uws> SteveA: (ok)
[02:29] <kiko> we're looking into considering launchpad integration for freenode users and groups
[02:29] <jblack> I used to talk to him off and on, but that was years ago (prior to him pissing people off with the advertising thing)
[02:29] <carlos> kiko, no, using grub atm :-P
[02:29] <kiko> does anyone have an opinion?
[02:29] <kiko> hmmm
[02:29] <kiko> stub?
[02:30] <kiko> freenode has a project to move their user and group registrations to a registry
[02:30] <mpt> Does that mean we'd all have to register on Freenode?
[02:30] <stub> eh?
[02:30] <jblack> he's a nice guy, approachable, always amendable to solutions that involve getting the network cash.
[02:30] <Kinnison> apparently noone in canonical has a serious relationship with freenode
[02:30] <mpt> amenable
[02:30] <SteveA> i've chatted with him more recently than jblack.  not deeply though.  and not all that recently.
[02:30] <stub> IRC is soo 90's
[02:31] <Nafallo> kiko: of I'm not mistaken Seveas should solve that for Ubuntu. not sure if it was last CC or the one before that.
[02:31] <mpt> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GetOffFreenodeSpec
[02:31] <kiko> Nafallo, seveas?
[02:31] <Nafallo> that the decision was made that is.
[02:31] <jblack> mpt: Apparently they're both words that are quite similiar. :)
[02:31] <kiko> well
[02:31] <kiko> I'll explain
[02:31] <Nafallo> kiko: yea. that's his nick. can't remember realname ;-)
[02:31] <kiko> freenode are looking to have a registry-like service
[02:31] <mpt> jblack: As opposed to one of them being quite similar, and the other not :-)
[02:32] <kiko> they basically need groups and users
[02:32] <kiko> our FOAF registry (and the authserver with caching?) would suit them quite well
[02:32] <jamesh> kiko: whois says Seveas is Dennis Kaarsemaker
[02:32] <SteveA> and the launchpad and freenode user communities have a degree of overlap
[02:32] <kiko> right
[02:32] <jblack> Ok. He's open to ideas. :P
[02:32] <Seveas> hi
[02:33] <Seveas> someone called?
[02:33] <kiko> freenode, while 90s-IRC-technology, has a lot of users
[02:33] <SteveA> using launchpad could give freenode better infrastructure, a nice groups admin ui, with minimal development required by freenode people
[02:33] <stub> kiko: I don't see why authserver would be needed for freenode, because we won't be letting passwords fly around in cleartext or people use their launchpad password to authenticate with Nickserv
[02:33] <SteveA> and the same API could be used for other irc networks too
[02:34] <SteveA> stub: we can store nickserv passwords separately, if that were part of the integration
[02:34] <kiko> stub, good point
[02:34] <Seveas> Nafallo, you are correct, but it's in the hands of sabdfl now -- freenode wants to have an official contact too for the starting up phase
[02:34] <jamesh> or use salted SHA1 hashes :)
[02:34] <Seveas> and lilo explictely requested a contact form from sabdfl
[02:34] <Nafallo> Seveas: ah, oki :-)
[02:34] <kiko> that should be doable, Seveas 
[02:34] <mpt> I haven't seen anyone mention a reason for doing this
[02:34] <kiko> I wonder if lilo and mark could get on the phone
[02:35] <mpt> Is there money involved?
[02:35] <Seveas> kiko, I've contacted mark about it already
[02:35] <Seveas> mpt, no
[02:35] <Seveas> mpt, details: wiki.ubuntu.com/FreenodeRegistrationSpec
[02:36] <kiko> Seveas, well, mark is interested in the freenode/launchpad integration
[02:36] <SteveA> mpt: by "this" do you mean, canonical / ubuntu registering with freenode as an "official organisation"
[02:36] <Seveas> launchpad <--> freenode integration would rock though :)
[02:36] <kiko> right
[02:36] <kiko> that's the tune
[02:36] <Seveas> but for now freenode registration means a lot of manual work
[02:36] <mpt> I was just wondering whether it would make logging in more or less complicated for Launchpad, Freenode, or both
[02:36] <Seveas> mpt, the spec is mainly about the social details - no technicalities
[02:37] <SteveA> mpt: a freenode <-> launchpad integration should make logging in and maintaining your nickname password and the groups you're a member of, easier
[02:37] <kiko> exactly
[02:37] <SteveA> mpt: because you could do it either on irc, or on the web in launchpad
[02:37] <SteveA> thanks spiv 
[02:37] <kiko> and get people hooked to launchpad too
[02:37] <kiko> anyway
[02:37] <Seveas> there are no technicaluties yet, all changes in freenode registration require manual work now
[02:37] <kiko> thanks guys
[02:37] <SteveA> kiko: moving on?
[02:37] <kiko> yes please
[02:37] <SteveA> ok
[02:37] <SteveA> quick note about bzr and python
[02:37] <SteveA> there's been some discussion on python-dev about moving python from cvs to something better
[02:38] <stub> technically, I can't see how integration woud make authentication to freenode easier (there my be other benefits, but I don't see that being one of them)
[02:38] <SteveA> bzr has been mentioned by GvR and Frederik Lundh, and Guido mailed me personally, following up my talk at Europython on bazaar
[02:38] <jamesh> stub: it might make user management easier
[02:39] <SteveA> i spoke with martin poole on the phone yesterday about this, and martin and i are going to put together some materials for discussion on python-dev to show how we use bazaar on launchpad, and where the whole baz thing is going.
[02:39] <SteveA> jblack: if you're around today and tomorrow, i could use some help from you on this too
[02:39] <jblack> Yeah, I'll be here
[02:39] <SteveA> cool
[02:39] <SteveA> expect to hear more about this next week and onwards.
[02:40] <SteveA> it will be very exciting if the python project uses bzr.
[02:40] <kiko> yeah, it will rock
[02:40] <SteveA> okay, our time is almost up
[02:40] <SteveA> three sentences.  rock my world.
[02:40] <spiv> DONE: (since Brazil) caught up on mail, some reviews, EnumCol+DEFAULT (bug 1659)
[02:40] <spiv> TODO: reviews, plan my upcoming work, TeamsInAuthserver (TeamLogin/SupermirrorFilesystem prereq), get 100% over chicken pox.
[02:40] <spiv> BLOCKED: no.  (chicken pox didn't affect my sinuses at all ;)
[02:40] <mpt> DONE: Icons, specifications, minor bugfixes
[02:40] <mpt> TODO: Bugfixes, Rosetta cleanup
[02:40] <mpt> BLOCKED: various infrastructure magic from SteveA
[02:40] <SteveA> jordi: DONE: reading rosetta-users, doing my first replies (after triple-checking with carlos ;), going over Rosetta, finding & filing bugs, basically getting comfortable with the interface; writing FAQ entries, etc.
[02:40] <SteveA> jordi: TODO: start going through the import requests queue as soon as we're ready for that, continue writing FAQs from IRC/mailing list
[02:40] <SteveA> jordi: BLOCKED: some "No permissions" bugs in rosetta prevent me from editing series. Other similar bugs will probably be found as I try to do other operations.
[02:40] <salgado> DONE: Split the old person/+edit page in smaller and simple ones, started discussions (including the spec) about ShipItNG, lots of random fixes, started the second round of basic voting (which will finish implementing the spec)
[02:40] <salgado> TODO: BasicVoting, ShipItNG, random bug fixes
[02:40] <salgado> BLOCKED: None
[02:40] <carlos> DONE: production bug fixes, language packs, Jordi "welcome pack", specs
[02:40] <carlos> TODO: Language packs (mozilla and OO.org support), bug fixes, merge daf's branches
[02:40] <carlos> BLOCKED: Nothing
[02:40] <SteveA> cprov: DONE: Minor arrangements at BuildFarm (storing logtails and treating
[02:40] <SteveA> cprov: failures)
[02:40] <SteveA> cprov: TODO: BuildFarm UI (partially working, action are compromised yet)
[02:40] <SteveA> cprov: BLOCKED: MPT finishing AutoBuildUserInterface spec
[02:40] <jamesh> DONE: code reviews (not many), work on calendar UI improvements and CalendarAggregation
[02:40] <jamesh> TODO: code reviews, CalendarAggregation, browser interfaces move, "GPG suckage tool"
[02:40] <jamesh> BLOCKED: no
[02:40] <bradb> DONE: Implemented distro release targeting (in reviewer queue). About 60% of the way through SP bug listing implementation (just finishing up view tests). Attained serious brownie points from bikini; the gift that truly keeps on giving.
[02:41] <bradb> TODO: Finish SP bug listing, respond to bug task assignee widget review. Nag SteveA about page titles, and where we're at with what Malone needs for menus (as per discussion in .br.) Nag salgado about code review. Maybe work on the DR CVE report or the DR bug listing.
[02:41] <bradb> BLOCKED: Nothing.
[02:41] <Kinnison> DONE: Recover from sprint, work on database rework for packages
[02:41] <Kinnison> TODO: Finish DB rework, get back to publisher etc
[02:41] <Kinnison> BLOCKED: Nothing
[02:41] <jblack> DONE: Talking bzr/baz religion
[02:41] <jblack> TODO: Talking bzr/baz religion
[02:41] <stub> DONE: Brazil sprint
[02:41] <stub> TODO: Recover from food poisoning or chicken pox
[02:41] <stub> BLOCKED: The opposite was experienced
[02:41] <jblack> BLOCKED: Nothing
[02:41] <morgs> DONE: RDF unicode fixes
[02:41] <morgs> TODO: Merge RDF fixes, other bugfixes
[02:41] <morgs> BLOCKED: none
[02:41] <kiko> DONE: sprint work with mark, Malone hacking
[02:41] <BjornT_> DONE: travel. spec writing. catch up with reviews. email threading implementaion. recover from jet-lag.
[02:41] <BjornT_> TODO: finish email threading implementation. finish missing part of bug attachment implementation. implement the email commands that should be there (according to the spec)
[02:41] <BjornT_> BLOCKED: no
[02:41] <kiko> TODO: help mark out, hack more malone, bug triage, help mpt
[02:42] <SteveA> DONE: returned from brazil, code review, management stuff, baz stuff
[02:42] <SteveA> TODO: code review, baz stuff, menus improvements
[02:42] <SteveA> BLOCKED: lack of time before going on vacation
[02:42] <kiko> BLOCKED: no
[02:42] <mpt> SteveA: As of Tuesday, I've done as much as I can on AutoBuildUserInterface without cprov answering further questions
[02:42] <SteveA> mpt: what specifically do you need from me?
 BLOCKED: various infrastructure magic from SteveA
 jordi: BLOCKED: some "No permissions" bugs in rosetta prevent me from editing series. Other similar bugs will probably be found as I try to do other operations.
[02:42] <SteveA> carlos: how are these going?
[02:43] <mpt> SteveA: LaunchpadHierarchyNavigation, new LaunchpadMenus implementation, the format reference thingy that I can't find your spec for
 cprov: BLOCKED: MPT finishing AutoBuildUserInterface spec.
[02:43] <SteveA> so, mpt and cprov need to talk to each other.  they are co-blocked.
[02:43] <carlos> SteveA, will try to take a look as soon as possible
[02:43] <SteveA> mpt:  okay.
[02:43] <spiv> mpt: http://lpwiki.async.com.br/LaunchpadFmtReference ?
[02:43] <carlos> SteveA, but It will need code changes
[02:44] <carlos> so will not be available until more than a week
[02:44] <SteveA> okay, anyone blocked and hasn't been dealt with.
[02:44] <SteveA> ?
[02:44] <spiv> mpt: Er, except not quite at the url ;)
[02:44] <mpt> SteveA: I guess if the wiki subscriptions hadn't been lost, cprov would have seen my latest changes to the page
[02:44] <carlos> since I do it and production gets it
[02:44] <mpt> I'll mail him
[02:44] <jblack> steva: Got 7 minutes after the meeting? 
[02:44] <SteveA> jblack: yes, but not immediately afterward.  i need to go to lunch with schooltool visitors
[02:45] <SteveA> okay... meeting over
[02:45] <jblack> No worries. No limbs are about to be lost.
[02:45] <SteveA> kiko: you're the meeting meister for next week
[02:45] <jblack> Well, except for my leg, which still has mosquito marks from the rafting trip
[02:45] <SteveA> shall we say, same time next week?
[02:45] <spiv> Suits me.
[02:45] <Kinnison> yep
[02:45] <bradb> sounds good
[02:45] <carlos> sure
[02:46] <salgado> stub, ping
[02:46] <stub> salgado: pong
[02:47] <salgado> stub, so, everybody in launchpad need to have a wikiname within the ubuntu wiki. they shouldn't be able to remove it
[02:47] <salgado> stub, if we allow then to have more than one in the ubuntu wiki, that'll make the UI very complex and hard to use
[02:48] <salgado> I fixed that XXX about wikinames, and SteveA is reviewing it. but that won't fix the problem people had when merging accounts
[02:49] <stub> salgado: Why? Shouldn't we just raise a validation error if they try to remove the last Ubuntu wikiname?
[02:49] <salgado> SteveA, btw, I just resolved the conflict in smallfixes--4. it was a simple one
[02:50] <kiko> stub, they shouldn't have more than one wikiname for the same wiki AIUI
[02:51] <stub> Is that specced anywhere, cause the DB constraints don't say that (and if it is a restriction, it isn't a good one for integrating to external wikis)
[02:52] <salgado> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1356 is rejected?
[02:52] <Kinnison> ciao
[02:52] <kiko> stub, can you give me a hand debugging the gina run?
[02:52] <Kinnison> oh hang on
[02:52] <mpt> salgado: What about someone who only ever uses Guadelinux and doesn't use the Ubuntu wiki at all? Why should they need an Ubuntu wiki account?
[02:52] <kiko> I need to see some /tmp action?
[02:52] <Kinnison> SteveA: Tomorrow afternoon... I've been working late evenings this week to save up time so I can leave at about 14:30 tomorrow. What official paperwork needs doing?
[02:52] <stub> kiko: The mirror is stuffed at the moment so the gina runs will be failing
[02:53] <kiko> stub, gotcha. appreciated.
[02:53] <salgado> mpt, to authenticate in the ubuntu wiki. it should be possible to use your launchpad account to login to the ubuntu wiki
[02:54] <stub> mpt: They get one automatically on account creation. I can't remember exactly why we required it - spiv might remember since I seem to recall it was to do with the authserver
[02:54] <mpt> salgado: So people creating a Launchpad account won't have to care that that gets them an Ubuntu wiki account?
[02:55] <kiko> I don't think it's a very big deal but..
[02:58] <stub> salgado: Looking at the code at the moment, when you merge an account your wikinames merge too (which matches the latest bug report).
[03:01] <salgado> stub, yes, but SteveA reported (https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1356) that we should keep only the shortest non-empty wikiname for each wiki
[03:01] <salgado> and I think that's the right thing to do
[03:02] <stub> We can keep all of them and let the user decide which ones to prune. I think Steve's opinion was based on my incorrect assumptions about UNIQUEness of (wiki,person) in Wikiname
[03:04] <salgado> stub, but the ubuntu wikiname is like a preferred email. it becomes a PITA if you allow people to have more than one
[03:05] <stub> perhaps you are right - I'm not sure about the authserver/wiki integration stuff
[03:10] <kiko> hey niemeyer 
[03:10] <stub> salgado: Are there any places you can think of that more than one Ubuntu wikiname might cause extra complexity besides the wiki authentication?
[03:11] <stub> (I think the FOAF UI can remain simple yet support this model)
[03:14] <salgado> in the best case, I would have to allow people to delete their ubuntu wikinames and then say: "Hey, you can't delete your ubuntu wikiname. I know I put that checkbox there, but it's meant to be used only when you have more than one ubuntu wikiname"
[03:15] <salgado> stub, on the other hand, if we guarantee that there's a single ubuntu wikiname, it'll be clear that it can't be removed
[03:16] <stub> yup. I don't have a problem with the UI acting that way. It could even be an improvement, because Ubuntu wikinames will be managed together with external ones.
[03:16] <salgado> I could also do a hack to get the first ubuntu wikiname and treat that as TEH ubuntu wikiname. allowing them to remove the other one
[03:16] <salgado> kiko is
[03:18] <mpt> I don't have a problem with it, just as long as Debian and Guadelinux people who use Launchpad and Linspire people who use Rosetta etc etc never get told "hey, here's your Ubuntu wiki account"
[03:18] <salgado> they will get told about that
[03:19] <stub> mpt: They will see it on their preferences page, they won't get told it.
[03:19] <salgado> there's no way to distinguish someone who logged in in the ubuntu wiki from someone who never logged in
[03:19] <stub> mpt: And that will happen anyway, because everyone gets one and can't remove it
[03:19] <salgado> stub, they'll also see the ubuntu wikiname in their personal page
[03:19] <mpt> then, that's a problem
[03:20] <stub> It is?
[03:21] <niemeyer> Morning!
[03:21] <niemeyer> kiko: Hiho!
[03:21] <kiko> woot
[03:21] <kiko> mpt, how do you suggest solving this problem in non-geological time?
[03:22] <mpt> stub: Yes, every thing about Launchpad that looks Ubuntu-specific is a disincentive for people who support other distributions to use Launchpad
[03:22] <stub> mpt: We currently insist on everyone having an Ubuntu wikiname, and generate it automatically on account creation. It can be used to log into launchpad too, and the Launchpad wiki, since all our wikis will share this information.
[03:23] <stub> mpt: We could just change references to ubuntu.com to launchpad.net in the required wiki wikiname?
[03:23] <mpt> stub: you mean wiki.launchpad.canonical.com?
[03:24] <stub> (it would also be used if we operated wikis on behalf of other people, so we could run guada linux's wiki using the same wikinames and authentication system if we want)
[03:24] <mpt> that could work
[03:24] <mpt> (if wiki.launchpad.canonical.com eventually becomes wiki.launchpad.net or the like)
[03:24] <stub> mpt: wiki.launchpad.net. I think we want to move wiki.launchpad.canonical.com
[03:25] <mpt> cool
[03:26] <kiko> well
[03:26] <kiko> mpt, do you propose creating a separate wiki account for the ubuntu wiki?
[03:27] <stub> eh?
[03:27] <mpt> kiko: no
[03:28] <kiko> hmm
[03:28] <mpt> I'm all about appearances :-)
[03:28] <mpt> Just as long as it doesn't *look* like All Your Base Are Belong To Ubuntu, it's fine
[03:28] <kiko> ah
[03:28] <kiko> Seveas, why can't I just fill out the group contact form?
[03:29] <kiko> does it /have/ to be the [very busy]  sab?
[03:29] <Seveas> kiko, lilo has specifically mention his name repeatedly 
[03:31] <Seveas>  /msg lilo to find out whether he'll accept a form from you too
[03:31] <stub> lilo is insisting on direct communications with the CEO? In any industry that is a sure fire way to get told to fuck off.
[03:32] <kiko> yeah, I'll talk to him
[03:32] <Seveas> stub, hehe :)
[03:33] <stub> Oops.... my grumpy level is up. Must be bed time ;)
[04:02] <kiko> Seveas, can you give me a hand with the group registration?
[04:03] <Seveas> sure
[04:04] <Seveas> what do you want to know?
[04:04] <kiko> Seveas, do I need to register for canonical or ubuntu?
[04:05] <Seveas> depends on what you want. The thing I was doing (and that lilo wants to talk to mark about) is registering for Ubuntu
[04:05] <Seveas> that covers #ubuntu #ubuntu-* and #kubuntu
[04:06] <kiko> hmmm
[04:06] <kiko> okay
[04:07] <Seveas> I can imagine that for complete launchpad integration you register as canonical
[04:07] <Seveas> and then we might have to reconsider registering ubuntu as separate entity, in order not to interfere with launchpad integration
[04:08] <kiko> okay
[04:08] <kiko> so register both canonical and ubuntu, you think?
[04:08] <kiko> what's this group name and group address crack?
[04:09] <Seveas> group name would be canonical or ubuntu (what you pick), group address is if the group has a formal address
[04:09] <Seveas> (so leave it empty)
[04:10] <kiko> okay
[04:10] <kiko> and the contact details I fill out -- for the sab/canonical?
[04:10] <Seveas> for yourself if you are the contact person
[04:21] <kiko> hum hum
[04:29] <Kinnison> kiko: did you sort out my afternoon swap? (stevea asks)
[04:29] <SteveA> it is okay, i'll sort it
[04:49] <kiko> mpt, https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1738 -> yours!
[04:49] <kiko> 
[05:03] <SteveA> jordi: are you on the launchpad mailingn list?
[05:25] <mpt> kiko-fud: I'm so fast, I fix bugs five days before they're reported
[05:26] <carlos> mpt, go go go!
[05:29] <kiko-fud> heh
[05:30] <uws> mpt: in what software/
[05:30] <carlos> uws, launchpad
[05:32] <uws> the  +addpackage  is broken!
[05:33] <uws> https://launchpad.net/products/ ... /+addpackage
[05:34] <uws> ah wel https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1698
[05:36] <mpt> that's a morgs problem
[05:37] <uws> https://launchpad.net/people/some_name_here  <--- is this always the first part of your email address?
[05:37] <uws> I used a + suffix on mine
[05:37] <mpt> No
[05:38] <carlos> uws, usually, it is
[05:38] <uws> Is that a one-time setting?
[05:38] <salgado> uws, soon you'll be able to change the name that appears in the url
[05:38] <mpt> salgado: So name96 etc will be able to change their names?
[05:38] <salgado> the fix is being reviewed right now
[05:38] <salgado> mpt, yes
[05:39] <uws> Is launchpad written in Python? i can not find any reference to it
[05:39] <mpt> uws: yes
[05:41] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: r=jamesh Fix Bug 1603: RDF fails when a name has unicode chars (patch-2246: morgan.collett@canonical.com)
[05:42] <mpt> Tests passed, Rosetta is about to suck less
[05:42] <kiko-fud> god exists
[05:42] <carlos> mpt, what did you change?
[05:43] <mpt> the bar chart presentation
[05:44] <mpt> so it works when you're colorblind
[05:44] <mpt> and it works when you're completely blind
[05:44] <mpt> or if you're just using Lynx
[05:45] <carlos> mpt, cool
[05:47] <jordi> SteveA: nope. On Tuesday I was at carlos' place and we discussed what lists I should be on. I think lp list was on the "if you want", but I can do in a min if you think I should
[05:47] <SteveA> i think you should
[05:47] <SteveA> you're on the launchpad team now
[05:48] <SteveA> you need to know what's going on
[05:48] <SteveA> so you can communicate it well to the community
[05:50] <jordi> k
[05:51] <bradb> kiko-fud: was that you that integrated the js-sortable table stuff?
[05:51] <kiko-fud> yes
[05:51] <bradb> AMAZING WORK
[05:51] <bradb> it's looking snazzy on the sp bug listing
[05:51] <SteveA> carlos: i just forwarded a message to the launchpad list that was sent to the error-reports list
[05:52] <bradb> add class="sortable" and give the table an id...it's so rare that things Just Work in software
[05:52] <kiko-fud> bradb, it's nuclear stuff
[05:53] <mpt> What use is that if the number of bugs is larger than the batch?
[05:53] <kiko-fud> mpt, it should only be used for non-batched tables
[05:53] <bradb> mpt: batching? hah, you're so last month.
[05:53] <mpt> we don't batch any more?
[05:53] <kiko-fud> on some pages.
[05:53] <bradb> the sp bug list wasn't planned to ever be batched
[05:53] <carlos> SteveA, we have that language already in our database, but without a country link
[05:54] <SteveA> salgado: you know that we don't want to use int(person) but person.id instead ?
[05:54] <kiko-fud> JOIN AND RULE THE WORLD
[05:54] <carlos> SteveA, I will ask stub to add that link, that should be enough
[05:54] <SteveA> carlos: okay.  would you reply to the sender?
[05:54] <mpt> kiko-fud: Well I have these chicken pie thingies that were probably Best Before yesterday
[05:54] <bradb> i'll put up a link to the sp bug listing in a min or two
[05:55] <salgado> SteveA, you tell this because you read my email? if so, then when I said that I was referring to sqlobject. it's sqlobject which does that
[05:55] <salgado> SteveA, but yes, I know we shouldn't do that and I definitely agree
[05:55] <carlos> SteveA, yes
[05:56] <SteveA> salgado: i wonder where sqlobject does that... it is bogus, because sqlobject kind of supports ids that aren't ints.
[05:57] <SteveA> but, if it does do that, we should add __int__ to the basic interface that is allowed or something like that.
[05:57] <salgado> SteveA, well, that's how the test broke. it complained that __int__ was a forbidden attribute
[05:57] <SteveA> do you know where in the code that is used?
[05:58] <salgado> I think it's sqlobject's getID() function which does that, but I'm not sure
[06:01] <salgado> no, getID is not called in that specific case
[06:01] <SteveA> if you come across the problem again, let's fix it either in our infrastructure or in sqlobject
[06:02] <salgado> I can come across the problem easily
[06:02] <SteveA> then please file a bug on it
[06:02] <salgado> just revert the change I did
[06:02] <SteveA> so we can get it dealt with
[06:02] <bradb> bah, bloody router.
[06:07] <salgado> SteveA, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file8HH3fa.html
[06:07] <salgado> that's the culprit
[06:08] <salgado> SteveA, for example, if you call Person.get(any_security_proxied_person_object) it'll fail. 
[06:08] <salgado> but I think it's fair to fail. I see no point in doing things like that
[06:08] <SteveA> okay
[06:09] <SteveA> so we can just replace that in our base class with one that is aware of secuirty proxies
[06:09] <SteveA> you have the test case.  want to write a test, and make the change?
[06:09] <mpt> bradb: Why do we have duplicate sets of links under "actions:" and "bug statistics:" on the search results?
[06:09] <SteveA> it is nice to see that sqlobject has this as a plugpoint
[06:11] <salgado> SteveA, not sure I'm following you. you're saying that we should be able to do that?
[06:13] <SteveA> it is easy to fix in launchpad code
[06:13] <SteveA> so, maybe you'd prefer to make the fix, rather than making a workaround in your launchpad code?
[06:14] <salgado> well, I my point was that I think code doing that is, by definition, wrong
[06:14] <salgado> s/I//
[06:14] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=spiv]  make Rosetta charts more accessible and less wordy (patch-2247: mpt@canonical.com)
[06:15] <salgado> I don't see any point in trying to get a person object if you already have one
[06:15] <salgado> that's exactly what happened in carlos' code. he already had a person object; no need to try to get it again
[06:16] <salgado> and I don't think what I did was a workaround. I just removed unecessary lines of code
[06:16] <SteveA> the error was confusing, and made you track down a problem, or something like that
[06:16] <SteveA> okay
[06:17] <SteveA> i'll file a bug on it, because it should either work in the presence of security proxies, or it should fail with a useful error.
[06:17] <carlos> salgado, isn't that code removed already?
[06:18] <salgado> carlos, I removed it in my branch, but it's not merged yet
[06:19] <carlos> oh, ok
[06:20] <salgado> SteveA, I think you're right that if it work with non-security-proxied objects it should work with security-proxied ones too
[06:21] <salgado> but I think it should fail with non-security-proxied objects too, as that, to me, is an indication of broken code. maybe I'm overlooking the problem, but I don't see a use case for trying to get an object you already have
[06:22] <SteveA> okay
[06:22] <SteveA> well
[06:22] <SteveA> okay
[06:23] <bradb> mpt: because the fix hasn't yet been rolled out to production
[06:35] <mpt> oh, ok
[06:46] <bradb> mpt: speaking of which, are you planning to break the actions/bug lists/release bugs sidebar stuff into proper separate portlets?
[06:46] <bradb> i'm having a bit of a dilemma with repeating that problem on the sp bug listing page
[06:51] <mpt> bradb: I'm just tidying it up now
[06:51] <mpt> but not in portlets, no, because the listing needs the whole page width
[06:52] <bradb> mpt: so no portlets at all on the bug listing page?
[06:52] <bradb> mpt: i.e. no gutters whatsoever?
[07:00] <jordi> SteveA: ok, sub'ed
[07:02] <mpt> bradb: right
[07:02] <bradb> wow, that sounds too sane to be true
[07:42] <kiko> Seveas, I've registered for canonical
[07:52] <salgado> so, we're going to have a lint target for make? that's good!
[07:58] <bradb-lunch> kiko: is mpt around there somewhere? i was hoping to get some insight into how he's changing the bug listing sidebar (i.e. removing it, AIUI) and what he's doing with the links in there, so that i can follow the same design for that part of the sp bug listing.
[08:00] <bradb> !
[08:00] <bradb> mpt: so, on the sp bug listing, where do i put the links that had been in the sidebar on the distro bugs listing?
[08:00] <mpt> I think rsync's finished with my gaim logs now
[08:01] <mpt> bradb: I'm not sure yet, I'll figure it out before I put the branch up for review :-)
[08:02] <bradb> hm, i want to try and get you a link to my page so that i can ask you a more specific question. /me fiddles with his router.
[08:09] <bradb> mpt: 69.70.209.33:8086/distros/debian/woody/+sources/mozilla-firefox/+bugs -- what else should i do or add (or remove) on this page before submitting it for review?
[08:12] <kiko> SteveA?
[08:13] <kiko> bradb, no portlets?
[08:14] <bradb> kiko: according to what mpt says above, no portlets on bug listing pages.
[08:14] <kiko> that'll be a war
[08:14] <kiko> not even file a new bug? ;-P
[08:14] <kiko> let me talk to mpt a bit
[08:15] <bradb> where to put the filebug link raises two questions 1. in a portlet? 2. filebug on a sourcepackage or just go to the distro filebug page?
[08:20] <kiko> right
[08:25] <mpt> bradb: "Report a bug" will still be just where it is now
[08:26] <mpt> (sorry, I was speccing)
[08:26] <mpt> "rsync error: some files could not be transferred (code 23) at main.c(1146)"
[08:27] <mpt> bradb: to the right of the search form, there's room there
[08:28] <bradb> mpt: there is no search form
[08:28] <bradb> sp bug listing search is Ctrl-F :)
[08:29] <mpt> So this is listing however many hundred bugs there are?
[08:30] <bradb> mpt: yep. on average an sp will not have more than about a dozen bugs filed on it.
[08:30] <mpt> what about a product?
[08:30] <bradb> totally different beast
[08:30] <bradb> different listing format, etc.
[08:31] <mpt> Different listing format?
[08:31] <bradb> yeah. it has different columns, different group (if there is actual grouping done), different report links probably, etc.
[08:32] <mpt> oh, that's all right then
[08:32] <mpt> but that's nothing to do with my "what about a product?" question
[08:33] <bradb> what do you mean by "what about a product?"
[08:33] <bradb> avg number of bugs filed on a product?
[08:33] <mpt> More like, upper quartile
[08:34] <mpt> Are there going to be many products with thousands of bugs?
[08:34] <mpt> Malone has 177 open bugs already
[08:34] <bradb> not anytime soon is my best guess (where "anytime soon" is defined as "within the next couple years")
[08:35] <mpt> ok then
[08:36] <mpt> I guess I should abandon this branch I'm working on, if you've nearly finished yours
[08:36] <bradb> i'm only working on the sp bug listing
[08:37] <mpt> and the search form needs to be removed from all of the listings?
[08:37] <bradb> mpt: just to confirm then, should i submit the sp bug listing for code review? there seems to be things missing, but i'm not entirely sure about your vision for how the bug listing will be cleaned up, etc.
[08:38] <bradb> mpt: no, just the sp bug listing
[08:38] <kiko> no portlets is an issue I think
[08:38] <kiko> mark will go ballistic unless we have a good rationale
[08:38] <bradb> yeah, i imagine as much :)
[08:38] <mpt> bradb: No, you're missing the Critical/Open/Untriaged/etc links
[08:38] <bradb> so, there's at least two i started putting on there but then backed out:
[08:39] <mpt> bradb: The reason you're unsure is that I'd only just started working on it
[08:39] <bradb> 1. details portlet -- there is no details portlet yet for sp's
[08:39] <mpt> Designs don't spring into my head fully-formed :-)
[08:40] <bradb> 2. the actions stuff -- it didn't seem like a good idea to repeat the sidebar crap from the distro bug listing page, and when i pinged mpt about it, he said he's actually doing something entirely different than just breaking those up into portlets (actually removing the portlets from the page.)
[08:40] <bradb> so, now, i'm officially confused about what should be added to the sp bug listing :)
[08:41] <bradb> should i repeat the sidebar crap from the distro bug listing then?
[08:42] <kiko> let me talk to the mpt
[08:42] <kiko> note however
[08:42] <kiko> mark would like us to be using list view not table view
[08:42] <kiko> you have a few days to fix that though 
[08:42] <bradb> right, but one thing at a time :)
[08:43] <kiko> or maybe I should fix it tomorrow morning :)
[08:43] <bradb> i've still got a complete URL scheme change to make, removing I*BugTask, adding a distrorelease CVE report, etc.
[08:44] <bradb> (not to mention hassling salgado about the DR targeting review and responding to BjornT's review of the bugtask assignee widget)
[08:44] <bradb> (and finishing up the sp bug listing)

[08:46] <mpt> It's not one thing at a time
[08:46] <mpt> because if we're going to be using the list view soon
[08:46] <mpt> instead of the table view
[08:46] <mpt> we don't need as much width
[08:46] <mpt> and we can therefore have portlets down the side.
[08:46] <bradb> we're going to offer both, AFAIK
[08:49] <mpt> ok, so we'll have to postpone the page width bug
[08:54] <bradb> ok, what's the decision on what to add/remove/change/whatever on the sp bug listing then?
[08:58] <mpt> bradb: postpone the page width bug = add the portlets
[08:58] <mpt> but in your own table cell, so there are still only two columns on the page rather than three
[08:59] <salgado> kiko, what you did to break pqm? your branch is there for more than 90 minutes
[09:00] <kiko> sent in a pretty old branch
[09:05] <bradb> kiko: should a new file-a-bug-on-a-sourcepackage page be created for the +filebug link from the sp bug listing, or should it go to the distribution filebug page?
[09:06] <kiko> hmmm
[09:06] <kiko> I think the former is probably better
[09:06] <bradb> ok
[09:08] <kiko> as long as the source package and distribution are clearly identified
[09:09] <bradb> right
[09:16] <bradb> mpt: what did you mean by "but in your own table cell, so there are still only two columns on the page rather than three"? are you saying i shouldn't be fill-slot="portlets_two"'ing the actions portlet?
[09:16] <bradb> (i.e. if you look at the page now, i just want to know how to get the actions portlet where it's supposed to be)
[09:17] <mpt> bradb: Right, <table><tr><td>All the stuff you have now</td><td>Action() and Bug listings</td></tr></table>
[09:20] <mpt> Ok, so my Launchpad tree is somewhat borked
[09:21] <salgado> bradb, is https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/DistroReleaseBugTargeting the spec for the branch you asked me to review?
[09:21] <mpt> corrupt library (failed inode signature validation)
[09:21] <bradb> salgado: yeah
[09:21] <kiko> mpt, ask salgado about that
[09:22] <bradb> mpt: the page looks whacked after making that table/tr/td change
[09:22] <mpt> bradb: Are you in the body slot?
[09:22] <bradb> mpt: yep
[09:23] <bradb> is the portlet supposed to do the normal:
[09:23] <bradb> <div class="portlet">
[09:23] <bradb>   ...

[09:23] <bradb> ?
[09:24] <mpt> sure
[09:25] <mpt> since it was using sidebar, you'll need to put that back inside the portlet
[09:25] <mpt> the portlet file itself, I mean
[09:25] <bradb> yep, i had done that already. was just checking.
[09:26] <mpt> Actually, that'll only work if you change all the results pages at once
[09:26] <bradb> mpt: it's a separate portlet
[09:26] <mpt> If you're not doing that, you'll need to do the <div class="portlet"> etc in the results page, around the portlet macro
[09:26] <bradb> specific to this page
[09:27] <mpt> oh, ok
[09:28] <salgado> bradb, the new page you created follow the UI changes described in the spec?
[09:28] <bradb> salgado: yes, with small variations (i.e. we *are* going to use a disabled checkbox instead of an icon). i would update this when the implementation is actually approved.
[09:29] <bradb> s/i.e./e.g./
[09:29] <salgado> bradb, okay. I also saw something related to the sourcepackagename that's not in the spec
[09:30] <salgado> bradb, that's because the spname can be different between releases?
[09:30] <bradb> salgado: yes, but for now we're going to make the assumption that they're the same anyway (as confirmed to be ok with Kinnison)
[09:31] <bradb> mpt: is making this portlet layout work a non-trivial thing then?
[09:32] <bradb> or can you see something in the source that i'm doing wrong?
[09:33] <mpt> bradb: What's the URL again? (sorry, I switched machines)
[09:33] <bradb> http://69.70.209.33:8086/distros/debian/woody/+sources/mozilla-firefox/+bugs
[09:39] <mpt> bradb: Looks ok so far
[09:39] <mpt> apart from the padding, of course
[09:42] <bradb> mpt: can you tell me what i have to do to make it look correct? i'd rather not futz around with html/css if you have the answer onhand.
[09:46] <mpt> bradb: For the first cell, <td style="padding-right: 1em;">
[09:46] <mpt> bradb: Sorry I'm not my best today, I have a headache
[10:01] <bradb> mpt: i think i've got it now, thanks
[10:12] <bradb> kiko: i wonder: can I break up the sp bug listing functionality into two merges? 1. the basic listing + a filebug link + adding an sp filebug page and then 2. adding all the +criticalbugs, +unassignedbugs, +mybugs, etc. views? I'm a bit worried that this branch is going to get out of control if I do it all at once.
[10:12] <salgado> elmo, around?
[10:12] <elmo> salgado: yeah
[10:12] <salgado> elmo, kiko managed to bork pqm again. would you kill the process for us?
[10:19] <elmo> hmm, fuck I can't find lifeless' instructions, one sec
[10:23] <kiko> bradb, yeah, sure
[10:23] <kiko> heh
[10:23] <bradb> kiko: thanks
[10:23] <elmo> done I think
[10:24] <elmo> salgado: ^--
[10:25] <salgado> elmo, great. thank you
[10:25] <kiko> oh ffs
[10:34] <jblack> oh cute.
[10:34] <jblack> syslog and kern.log aren't rotated.
[10:35] <jblack> That gets to be a problem if your root filesystem is only a gig, and they've grown to 376 megs a piece
[10:43] <elmo> err, they are by default?
[10:54] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Allow searching for email address and/or name in all places where you can search for people/teams. r=BjornT (patch-2248: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
[11:15] <jblack> Yeah, thats by default
[11:16] <jblack> That they're not.
[11:16] <kiko> mp1, does your baz get work now?
[11:16] <mp1> kiko: ok so far ...
[11:17] <kiko> wonderful
[11:19] <kiko> mp1, https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/74 seems to be carlos + mpt work, yes?
[11:20] <mp1> kiko: Fun things happen to gnome-panel when one switches monitors
[11:21] <mp1> kiko: Yes, BidirectionalText is in my queue
[11:22] <kiko> okidok
[11:31] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  add a make lint target (USE IT) and remove cruft (patch-2249: christian.reis@canonical.com)
[11:33] <kiko> finally
[11:33] <kiko> make lint 
[11:36] <kiko> mpt, you don't need to
[11:36] <kiko> I'll help you
[11:36] <mpt> ImportError: No module named RestrictedPython.RCompile
[11:36] <mpt> (which I'm sure is only the first example)
[11:36] <bradb> mpt: http://69.70.209.33:8086/distros/debian/woody/+sources/mozilla-firefox/+bugs -- how do I get "To be fixed in Woody" to line up with the top of the actions portlet?
[11:37] <kiko> mpt, that's probably just some sourcecode missing
[11:37] <kiko> I'll help ya
[11:37] <mpt> kiko: more cp salgado/ mpt/ action?
[11:45] <bradb> kiko: are you intereseted in reviewing the sp bug listing in about 15 mins? (i.e. as soon as i'm done bazzing my way to a diff?)
[11:56] <salgado> kiko, the config files are read only when running launchpad, not when running tests. that means we (me and mpt) can't easily use different databases
[11:57] <salgado> kiko, I'll try to find another solution
[11:58] <kiko> okay
[11:58] <kiko> hmm, that's sad
[11:58] <kiko> bradb, how big is it?
[11:58] <bradb> ~500 lines
[12:01] <kiko> I'm a bad pick for today
[12:01] <kiko> you'll get it back on monday at the earliest
[12:02] <bradb> kiko: no worries, i'll find a spot for it on PendingReviews for someone
[12:02] <mpt> bradb: Normally the margins between "Bugs in debian mozilla-firefox" and "To be fixed in Woody" would collapse, so Actions would line up
[12:03] <mpt> bradb: but it doesn't here because the <h1> is outside the <td> (outside the <table>, even)
[12:03] <bradb> inside the td the portlet ended up really high up, IIRC
[12:04] <mpt> you could special-case it, if you wanted
[12:05] <bradb> anything to make it work sounds good
[12:05] <bradb> well, /almost/ anything :)
[12:05] <mpt> <h2 style="margin-top: 0">OMG WHAT A HACK</h2>