[02:04] <mgalvin> hi all
[02:07] <Burgundavia> salut mgalvin 
[02:07] <Burgundavia> nice work on the faqguide
[02:13] <mgalvin> Burgundavia: thnx, i am trying to make it easier to work on, it such a pain looking thru a 10000 line xml file
[02:15] <Burgundavia> mgalvin, jerome and I were talking about the userguide last night
[02:15] <Burgundavia> hey thoreauputic 
[02:16] <thoreauputic> Burgundavia: just to elaborate on what I was saying - as a non-technical type I would like to know a non-technical way that one can contribute
[02:16] <Burgundavia> the wiki is probably the best way
[02:16] <thoreauputic> hmmm
[02:16] <Burgundavia> a lot of pages needs to be cleaned up to reflect ubuntu best practices
[02:16] <Burgundavia> gui over cli, etc.
[02:17] <Burgundavia> most of the wiki pages are too wordy
[02:17] <thoreauputic> well, I'm probably not aware of "best practices" - I know a bit about debian-style stuff
[02:17] <Burgundavia> basically, if there is a gui way, offer that
[02:17] <thoreauputic> but I'm just an intermediate user...
[02:17] <Burgundavia> Ubuntu uses sudo, so root stuff is right out
[02:18] <thoreauputic> yes I know that ;)
[02:18] <robotgeek> maybe we could just copy stuff over from ubuntuguide
[02:18] <Burgundavia> if we can write for your parents, we can write for anybody
[02:18] <Burgundavia> robotgeek, the ubuntguide is already the basis of the faqguide that mgalvin and rob stoffers are working on
[02:18] <robotgeek> yeah, the focus has to shift from RTFM, though sometimes, it wud help
[02:19] <Burgundavia> the ubuntuguide offers one solution to the problem
[02:19] <Burgundavia> sometimes it is not the best one
[02:19] <robotgeek> i liked the way gentoo articles work
[02:19] <Burgundavia> on their wiki?
[02:19] <thoreauputic> Burgundavia: I feel there should be a "first time druid" or similar that points people at documentation
[02:19] <mgalvin> Burgundavia: so what were you and jerome discussing about the userguide?
[02:19] <robotgeek> i use them to setup debian machines
[02:19] <Burgundavia> mgalvin, pretty much that it can't be shipped and nobody is working on it
[02:20] <Burgundavia> thoreauputic, we are still hashing out the main yelp page
[02:20] <robotgeek> their wikis...they explain why we are doing and what we are doing
[02:20] <thoreauputic> Burgundavia: right - but the average punter won't even open yelp without a nice popup that says "Welcome to Ubuntu! Start here..."
[02:21] <Burgundavia> yes
[02:21] <robotgeek> correct...
[02:21] <Burgundavia> pretty much at this point the likely main page is the faqguide
[02:21] <Burgundavia> because after people graduate the faqguide, they are likely to be googling instead
[02:22] <thoreauputic> major questions: 1) multimedia 2)multimedia 3)sound 4) wifi  ... and so forth
[02:22] <robotgeek> maybe we shud grep the irc logs?
[02:22] <Burgundavia> already did
[02:22] <thoreauputic> the repetition is intentional :)
[02:22] <Burgundavia> and ubotu reports what is common as well
[02:22] <thoreauputic> ah, good to know
[02:23] <Burgundavia> we pretty much know what people want/need
[02:24] <Burgundavia> we now need to decide how to deliver that
[02:24] <robotgeek> yeah, can help out a bit
[02:24] <thoreauputic> I would say aim at Aunt Tilly ;)
[02:24] <robotgeek> wrote some documentation for Adium before, not much though
[02:25] <Razor-X> is there any compiled list for stuff users need docs on?
[02:25] <Burgundavia> CategoryCleanup on the wiki lists pages that need help
[02:26] <Burgundavia> the other thing that is in the beginning stages is our QuickTour marketing guide
[02:26] <thoreauputic> I think the search function for the wiki needs to be more obvious 
[02:26] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuickTourDraft
[02:26] <Burgundavia> yes, that would be nice
[02:26] <thoreauputic> or rather, more emphasised, visually
[02:26] <Burgundavia> file a bug about it
[02:27] <thoreauputic> :)
[02:27] <thoreauputic> noted
[02:27] <Burgundavia> right now, we need help is just about every area
[02:27] <Burgundavia> so find something that interests you and do that
[02:28] <robotgeek> noted
[02:28] <Burgundavia> the doc team is pretty spread around the world, so you are likely to find someone in this channel at all times
[02:28] <Razor-X> I made a little script to automate MPlayer compilation for those who want all the codecs, or whose AAC is broken, or who want more than 2 GB file support
[02:29] <robotgeek> makes sense, if you just want it working
[02:29] <Burgundavia> if you want to cleanup up the mplayer stuff that would be great
[02:30] <Burgundavia> make a main mplayer page and link all the various mplayer things off of that
[02:30] <Razor-X> hmmm, nice idea
[02:30] <Burgundavia> I don't know that any of doc team uses mplayer
[02:30] <Razor-X> also, I'll put the Cedega automated install method up
[02:31] <Razor-X> I use VLC and MPlayer, so that's where I can help
[02:31] <mgalvin> Burgundavia: has there been any discussion about which docs we will be including?
[02:31] <Burgundavia> remember that Ubuntu best practices is to promote existing solutions
[02:31] <Burgundavia> so totem and rb are them
[02:31] <robotgeek> i'll just have to find what i like. :)
[02:31] <Burgundavia> mgalvin, aside from the faqguide and maybe the quicktour, is anything else going to be ready?
[02:31] <mgalvin> i want to start getting the deb package ready too
[02:32] <mgalvin> not that i know of
[02:32] <mgalvin> ok, so i will only include those few things for now
[02:32] <Burgundavia> quicktour is not even in svn yet
[02:33] <mgalvin> right, i am just going to include the faqguide then for now as a first step, since the existing deb package doesn't even currently work
[02:33] <Burgundavia> ok
[02:40] <Razor-X> are there any plans to create an Enlightenment based Ubuntu distribution?
[02:41] <robotgeek> enlightenment is full of eye-candy!!
[02:41] <Razor-X> meh
[02:41] <Razor-X> yeah, it is
[02:41] <robotgeek> i liked what i saw, but too slow on mine...
[02:41] <robotgeek> but why do u need whole distro?
[02:43] <Razor-X> like Kubuntu
[02:43] <Razor-X> Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Eubuntu (possibly)
[02:44] <thoreauputic> Razor-X: Eubuntu sounds too much like "Ewwww... Ubuntu " ;-)
[02:44] <Razor-X> meh ;)
[02:44] <thoreauputic> Enlightened Ubuntu perhaps :)
[02:44] <Razor-X> heh, yeah
[02:45] <Burgundavia> not current
[02:45] <Burgundavia> and eubuntu is too close to edubuntu
[02:45] <Razor-X> yeah, I was thinking that
[02:45] <robotgeek> i still don't understand why we need separate ubuntu/kubuntu
[02:45] <robotgeek> anyone can explain?
[02:45] <Burgundavia> they are not really seperate
[02:45] <Burgundavia> same repos
[02:45] <Razor-X> I like Kubuntu a lot, actually
[02:45] <Burgundavia> it is more marketing
[02:46] <Razor-X> I've been a KDE fan for a long time, I didn't want to bother with Gnome
[02:46] <Razor-X> and I _love_ the document viewers in KDE
[02:46] <Razor-X> (like KPDF and KDVI)
[02:46] <Razor-X> oh yeah, and any note when URW Palladio is going to get fixed?
[02:46] <robotgeek> use kdm, but gnome with openbox
[02:46] <Burgundavia> evince is better
[02:47] <Razor-X> does evince allow continuous facing pages?
[02:47] <Burgundavia> yes
[02:47] <Razor-X> hmmm, nice
[02:47] <Burgundavia> evince is also going to do javascript stuff eventually
[02:47] <Razor-X> they use the same rendering engine, i'm told
[02:47] <Burgundavia> don't know if kpdf has switched yet
[02:47] <Burgundavia> but yes, they do
[02:47] <Burgundavia> poppler, a freedesktop project
[03:25] <mgalvin> Burgundavia: was any specifc ubuntu-doc install location discussed or do you think just putting everything in /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/* (as html) seems fine?
[03:26] <Burgundavia> no idea
[03:26] <Burgundavia> best ask the list
[03:27] <mgalvin> k
[03:29] <cat> listen how can i help ubuntu 
[03:30] <mgalvin> what do you want to help with?
[03:40] <jsgotangco> hi
[03:40] <Madpilot> hi
[03:41] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, ping?
[03:42] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, pong
[03:42] <Burgundavia> salut Madpilot 
[03:42] <Madpilot> meh - Freenode doesn't seem to be reporting "last active @ <time>" anymore when you do whois...
[03:42] <Madpilot> hi Burgundavia
[03:42] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, did you receive an email from claire?
[03:43] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I did
[03:43] <jsgotangco> ahh goodie
[03:43] <Burgundavia> fedex contacted my gf (to whose workplace I am shippping the laptop) and said that there were customs fees
[03:44] <Burgundavia> I am getting a Toshiba Tecra A5
[03:44] <jsgotangco> im getting a Tecra M2
[03:44] <jsgotangco> which is smaller?
[03:44] <Madpilot> is Canonical absorbing the customs fee, or are you folks on the hook for that bit?
[03:44] <mgalvin> hey jsgotangco
[03:45] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, good question
[03:45] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, no idea
[03:45] <jsgotangco> hey mgalvin 
[03:45] <Burgundavia> I emailed claire about it
[03:45] <jsgotangco> we can ask claire on that
[03:45] <jsgotangco> oh did she reply?
[03:45] <Burgundavia> not yet
[03:45] <Burgundavia> our appear to be about the same
[03:45] <jsgotangco> well i have no clue at the moment if i'll be charged customs fee because mine is expected to arrive on the 17th
[03:46] <Burgundavia> yours might be more powerful
[03:46] <Burgundavia> she said the 17th for everybody
[03:46] <Burgundavia> mine might arrive tomorrow
[03:46] <jsgotangco> ah
[03:46] <mgalvin> where is my laptop ;)
[03:47] <mgalvin> so you guys are getting laptops for the testing work right?
[03:47] <jsgotangco> unfortunately, yes
[03:47] <Burgundavia> yes
[03:47] <Burgundavia> toshibas are nice laptops though
[03:47] <mgalvin> cool
[03:47] <jsgotangco> indeed
[03:47] <jsgotangco> it should work out of the box though
[03:47] <Madpilot> yeah, but they've got to babysit XP installs on them - Burgundavia's already been complaining about that! ;)
[03:48] <Burgundavia> I am counting the days
[03:48] <jsgotangco> i dont mind, an M2 has a geforce 2go
[03:48] <Madpilot> 18 months of XP, right?
[03:48] <mgalvin> i just bought a new one for myself, i can't wait to get it, but i know getting ubuntu on it is going to be a battle
[03:48] <Burgundavia> mine is ati
[03:48] <Burgundavia> yes
[03:48] <jsgotangco> mgalvin, what brand?
[03:49] <mgalvin> hp nx6125, the new one with the AMD Turion 64 chip in it
[03:49] <Burgundavia> http://www.toshiba.ca/web/product.grp?lg=en&section=1&group=1&product=4592
[03:49] <Burgundavia> that is what i am geting
[03:49] <Burgundavia> http://www.toshiba.ca/web/product.grp?lg=en&section=1&group=1&product=4196
[03:49] <Burgundavia> that is what jsgotangco is getting
[03:49] <Burgundavia> the next model to be exact
[03:49] <mgalvin> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=H24-PZ092%20SB
[03:50] <jsgotangco> wonder how many laptops were purchased
[03:50] <jsgotangco> i dont see any M2
[03:51] <Burgundavia> yours has bluetooth, mine does not
[03:51] <jsgotangco> ok that's one more thing to test
[03:51] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:51] <jsgotangco> and i dont have a bluetooth phone
[03:51] <jsgotangco> hmm you're getting a widescreen
[03:51] <Burgundavia> both have slots for cards
[03:51] <Burgundavia> nope
[03:51] <Burgundavia> 14"
[03:52] <Burgundavia> yours has tpm on it, mine does ot
[03:52] <Burgundavia> salut rob^ 
[03:52] <Burgundavia> they are very similar laptops
[03:52] <jsgotangco> err we seem to have a big number here at the moment, do we continue with the meeting later or postpone it?
[03:52] <mgalvin> hey rob^
[03:53] <rob^> hi Burgundavia 
[03:53] <rob^> hey mgalvin 
[03:53] <Burgundavia> meeting?
[03:53] <rob^> what time is it?
[03:53] <jsgotangco> DocteamMeetingAgenda
[03:54] <Burgundavia> isn't it tomorrow>?
[03:54] <jsgotangco> let me check
[03:54] <jsgotangco> August 11
[03:54] <Burgundavia> ubuntumeeting says 11th
[03:54] <jsgotangco> let's just move it
[03:54] <Burgundavia> to right now?
[03:54] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:55] <jsgotangco> sure just a lightning meeting would proabably do
[03:55] <jsgotangco> or just move it for tommorow?
[03:55] <jsgotangco> guys?
[03:55] <rob^> now is better for me
[03:55] <Burgundavia> let me check the agenda
[03:55] <Burgundavia> right now is better for me
[03:55] <rob^> I'm on shift for the next few days..
[03:55] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, there's not much on the agenda
[03:55] <mgalvin> i guess i can hang around a little longer for it
[03:55] <Burgundavia> yes
[03:56] <Burgundavia> sure, why don't we meet quickly now
[03:56] <jsgotangco> sure let's move then
[03:56] <Madpilot> can people who just happen to be here at the right time sit in on the meeting?
[03:56] <Burgundavia> sure
[03:56] <jsgotangco> sure
[03:56] <jsgotangco> its open anyways
[03:57] <Madpilot> ubuntu-meeting, right?
[03:57] <Burgundavia> yes
[04:15] <Burgundavia> jeffsch, thanks for the help on the Quicktour layout
[04:15] <jeffsch> np
[04:28] <jsgotangco> ok anything more, it seems we have coveredgood for a quickie
[04:32] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I am going to wait for your brain dump on QuickTourDraft before i start refactoring
[04:32] <jsgotangco> ok but i can't do that right now, i'm going to the dentist later
[04:32] <Burgundavia> np
[04:33] <jeffsch> re: meeting times - maybe instead of two alternating times, would three be better?
[04:33] <rob^> maybe
[04:33] <jsgotangco> what would be the other time?
[04:33] <rob^> I just wish it was on the friday instead of the thursday
[04:33] <jsgotangco> Thursday 22UTC is Friday morning for us
[04:33] <rob^> then it wouldn't matter much for me
[04:33] <jeffsch> yeah, friday is good
[04:34] <jsgotangco> but if we move to friday, it'll be better for me an rob
[04:34] <rob^> as in friday 1400z
[04:34] <jsgotangco> because it would be a weekend for us
[04:34] <jsgotangco> yeah
[04:34] <rob^> yep
[04:34] <jsgotangco> friday 22UTC is morning for us on saturday
[04:34] <jsgotangco> which is acceptable
[04:34] <Burgundavia> I am not adverse to moving to friday
[04:35] <jsgotangco> sure friday seems favorable to all of us
[04:35] <rob^> yeah I dont mind a 2am meeting if I dont have to get up for work the next day
[04:36] <jsgotangco> on the 26th then?
[04:36] <rob^> man, I have to work out time zones for a job..
[04:36] <rob^> I'm having a real brain fart today
[04:36] <Burgundavia> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=8&day=10&year=2005&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p1=0
[04:36] <Burgundavia> check out that
[04:37] <Madpilot> thanks Burgundavia
[04:37] <Madpilot> anyone know if there's a timezone app in the repos?
[04:37] <Burgundavia> no idea
[04:38] <jsgotangco> ok how does Aug. 26 14UTC sound
[04:38] <Burgundavia> sure
[04:38] <rob^> ok I'm going to sleep before work tonight
[04:38] <rob^> umm night all
[04:38] <jsgotangco> ok Aug. 26 14UTC it is
[04:38] <rob^> :)
[04:38] <Burgundavia> 
[04:39] <Burgundavia> sorry, playing with random utf-8 character from spam I recieve
[04:39] <jeffsch> jsgotangco: :)
[04:39] <jsgotangco> err is that ok?
[04:39] <jeffsch> yep
[04:39] <jsgotangco> jeffsch, toronto right
[04:39] <jsgotangco> ?
[04:39] <jeffsch> vancouver
[04:40] <jsgotangco> ok 7am then
[04:40] <jeffsch> yep
[04:40] <jsgotangco> jeffsch, question
[04:40] <jeffsch> shoot
[04:40] <jsgotangco> why does the styleguide pdf script doesn't work
[04:40] <jeffsch> !!!!!
[04:40] <jeffsch> i didn't know that... I take a look right away
[04:41] <jsgotangco> i stole those scripts for edubuntu btw
[04:41] <jeffsch> np
[04:41] <Madpilot> cool, there is a timezone app in Hoary repos - sunclock - does a bunch of other stuff too
[04:41] <mgalvin> i commited the ubuntu-docs packaging changes so if anyone can take a look at some point that would be great
[04:41] <jsgotangco> jsg@pingu:~/ubuntu-doc/styleguide$ make pdf
[04:41] <jsgotangco> xmllint --dtdvalid /usr/share/xml/docbook/schema/dtd/4.3/docbookx.dtd --noout --xinclude --noent --postvalid styleguide.xml
[04:41] <jsgotangco> xsltproc -o ../build/styleguide/styleguide.fo udp-pdf.xslt styleguide.xml
[04:41] <jsgotangco> Making portrait pages on USletter paper (8.5inx11in)
[04:41] <jsgotangco> fop.sh -fo ../build/styleguide/styleguide.fo -pdf ../build/styleguide/styleguide.pdf
[04:41] <jsgotangco> make: fop.sh: Command not found
[04:41] <jsgotangco> make: *** [pdf]  Error 127
[04:41] <jsgotangco> ooopps
[04:41] <jsgotangco> sorry
[04:42] <jeffsch> ahhh.... you don't have apache fop installed
[04:42] <mgalvin> i commented out the old stuff(for now) just incase we need it for something at some point
[04:42] <jeffsch> jsgotangco: apache fop is needed to build the pdf's
[04:43] <jsgotangco> i have to install apache?
[04:43] <jsgotangco> jezz
[04:43] <mgalvin> rob^: while working on the faqguide, please feel free to finish splitting into pieces
[04:43] <jeffsch> no, not apache.
[04:43] <rob^> mgalvin, yeah :)
[04:43] <jeffsch> apache has more than the web server
[04:43] <rob^> ok gtg to bed
[04:43] <jsgotangco> i dont think we have that on the repos
[04:43] <jeffsch> just a sec, i will find the link...
[04:43] <rob^> cya's
[04:44] <jeffsch> jsgotangco: it's not in the repos, you can only get it from the apache web site
[04:44] <jsgotangco> and the make html doesn't include the images
[04:44] <mgalvin> later rob^
[04:44] <jeffsch> jsgotangco: http://xml.apache.org/fop/
[04:45] <jsgotangco> i see
[04:46] <jsgotangco> i was furiously lookfing for fop.sh
[04:46] <jeffsch> jsgotangco: the makefile in styleguide folder is only good for pdf... it is there for that only
[04:47] <jeffsch> I should revise it someday. To build the html, use the same make file as the other docs
[04:47] <jeffsch> in ubuntu-doc/gnome, type make sg
[04:48] <jsgotangco> ok i will try that
[04:50] <jeffsch> when can we move our previews to the linode server?
[04:51] <Madpilot> somebody was asking how many laptops Canonical was shipping out - it's quite a list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
[04:51] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, i dont think everyone in that list got one
[04:52] <Madpilot> wondered about that - that's a lot of lappies to give away!
[04:52] <Burgundavia> quite a few did
[04:55] <mgalvin> g'night guys, c y'all later
[04:55] <jeffsch> latervdude
[05:13] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, its not free hehe we had to sign an ageement but after 3 releases, its ours
[05:13] <jsgotangco> a year and a half to be exact
[05:14] <Madpilot> yeah, I know how the deail works - 3 releases and babysitting XP too?
[05:14] <jsgotangco> its not so bad...heh games on XP are nice :)
[05:15] <Madpilot> ... and you'll be able to stay abreast of all the exciting developments in spyware, malware & viruses, too! ;)
[05:16] <Burgundavia> I will be able to play Dunegon Seige again
[05:16] <Burgundavia> blah
[05:16] <Burgundavia> my girlfriend confirmed that if I pay the customs, I should be able to have it tomorrow
[05:17] <Madpilot> cool - but what's the customs damage going to be?
[05:17] <Burgundavia> no idea
[05:22] <jsgotangco> oh so you have it already
[05:22] <jsgotangco> i mean so its there already
[05:22] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, better wait for claire's resonse 
[05:23] <Burgundavia> I intend to
[05:23] <jsgotangco> let me check my tracking number
[05:23] <Burgundavia> as she starts work at 2am my time, shouldn't be an issue
[05:25] <Burgundavia> hmm, my tracking number spits out not found
[05:25] <jsgotangco> mine too
[05:25] <Burgundavia> hmm
[05:26] <Burgundavia> I tried Canada and the UK
[05:26] <jsgotangco> same here i also tried UK
[05:26] <jsgotangco> TNT express?
[05:26] <Burgundavia> http://www.tnt.com/tntgroup/en_corporate.html
[05:27] <jsgotangco> sure just check on TNT express
[05:28] <Burgundavia> I did
[05:28] <Burgundavia> have you got anything?
[05:28] <jsgotangco> my guess is that the consignment number is not yet in the system
[05:29] <jsgotangco> but its strange if your machine is already in canada
[05:29] <Burgundavia> it should be
[05:29] <Burgundavia> mine is not yet in Canada, or on the easy coast
[05:29] <jsgotangco> maybe we only have a number that is not yet in the system
[05:30] <Burgundavia> could be
[05:30] <jsgotangco> i encountered that as well in ups some time ago
[05:30] <jsgotangco> i wasnt charged by customs on the zaurus that was given to me
[05:32] <Burgundavia> canonical gave you a zaurus?
[05:32] <jsgotangco> no
[05:32] <jsgotangco> that was a long long time ago
[05:32] <Burgundavia> oh
[05:33] <jsgotangco> that was during my active time in OpenZaurus
[05:33] <Burgundavia> fedex spits up nothing for me either
[05:35] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, please do that brain dump so I can continue working
[05:36] <jsgotangco> give me an hour, i'm going to leave in 30 minutes
[05:36] <Burgundavia> ok
[05:38] <jsgotangco> brb
[06:26] <Burgundavia> http://sunsite.bilkent.edu.tr/pub/linux/www.kde.org/
[07:13] <Madpilot> just doing some wiki cleanup
[07:14] <Madpilot> there are THREE PHP5 pages right now
[07:14] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PHP5FromSource
[07:14] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PHP5Installation
[07:14] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PHP5Installation2
[07:17] <Madpilot> can someone who knows PHP5 & the whole install-from-source drill go thru them and take them down to one page, with redirects?
[07:47] <Madpilot> OK, I"ve just added a note to all three PHP5 pages, and linked them all to ApacheMySQLPHP for ppl who actually want PHP4...
[07:49] <Burgundavia> welcome to the fun of CamelCase
[07:49] <Burgundavia> THings with two caps in a row must be explicitly linked
[07:49] <Burgundavia> ["like this'] 
[07:49] <Burgundavia> ["like this"] 
[07:49] <Madpilot> ack, shite, I see what you mean. back to editing
[07:50] <Madpilot> <mutter, mutter, mutter>
[07:50] <Burgundavia> alrady did it
[07:50] <Burgundavia> [" is  terrible way to link
[07:50] <Madpilot> on all three PHP5 pages?
[07:50] <Burgundavia> [[ is much easier
[07:50] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:53] <Madpilot> OK, done - but editing on top of each other gets messy...
[07:54] <Burgundavia> I just asked on #moin about why [" was chosen
[07:54] <Burgundavia> I really want to drop camelcase and force explict linking, with [[
[07:54] <Madpilot> wikipedia is [[thing] ] , right?
[07:54] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:54] <Burgundavia> CamelCase is actually less intuitive than [[
[07:55] <Burgundavia> because CamelCase falls down in corner cases like this one
[07:55] <Madpilot> plus you get odd unwanted pseudo-links sometimes - OpenOffice.org turns into a fake link, for example
[07:55] <Burgundavia> yes
[07:55] <Burgundavia> and then you need ugly hacky code to prevent it
[07:56] <Madpilot> is there a way to force Moin to *not* CamelCase-link?
[07:57] <Burgundavia> I think so
[07:57] <Burgundavia> no idea how
[07:58] <Madpilot> it would be useful w/ OpenOffice.org - right now every time that gets mentioned, the wiki looks... less than competent
[07:58] <Burgundavia> if I had control over the wiki, CamelCase would already have been dropped
[07:59] <Burgundavia> mind you, we would also have been running mediawiki
[07:59] <Burgundavia> which is designed for presentation docs
[08:00] <Madpilot> why doesn't U run mediawiki? it's just as Free as Moin, AFAIK
[08:00] <Burgundavia> because it is PHP
[08:01] <Burgundavia> and Canonical has no PHP expertise
[08:01] <Madpilot> what's the backend to Moin?
[08:03] <Burgundavia> python
[08:03] <Burgundavia> moin has 2 things going for it: speed and python
[08:04] <Madpilot> ah, OK. Fair enough for Canonical, anyway.
[08:04] <Burgundavia> for everything else, mediawiki kics the crap out of it
[08:04] <cat> hey people
[08:04] <Madpilot> hi
[08:04] <cat> hey to help aroound on the project what do i have to do?
[08:05] <Burgundavia> the wiki is a good place to start
[08:05] <Madpilot> sign up at the wiki, find a page that needs some help!
[08:05] <cat> oh ok
[08:05] <Burgundavia> CategoryCleanup is a good place to start on the wiki
[08:06] <cat> Burgundavia, ?
[08:07] <Madpilot> cat  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryCleanup
[08:07] <Burgundavia> cat, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryCleanup
[08:09] <cat> ok
[08:09] <cat> so when i picked a category what do i do?
[08:09] <Burgundavia> find a page in that category and fix it
[08:10] <cat> i'm sorry i'm kind of slow,
[08:10] <cat> =)
[08:10] <Burgundavia> that page lists other pages
[08:10] <Burgundavia> all those pages need help in one way or another
[08:10] <cat> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/3Ware9xxxAsRoot?highlight=%28CategoryDocumentation%29
[08:10] <cat> i'm there
[08:10] <cat> i don't really see no other links
[08:11] <Burgundavia> the category page lists pages taht need cleanup[
[08:12] <Burgundavia> cat, you don't need to click on the first link
[08:12] <Burgundavia> scroll down and pick something that you know about and that interests you
[08:13] <cat> oh ok,
[08:15] <cat> is there something else i can do?
[08:16] <Burgundavia> you can pull down the svn stuff and start hacking on our docbook
[08:16] <cat> where?
[08:16] <Madpilot> write a new wiki page for something the wiki doesn't have but should?
[08:17] <Burgundavia> the wiki is much much easier to get started on
[08:17] <cat> oh
[08:17] <cat> well like helping around packaging reporting bugs
[08:17] <Madpilot> bugzilla.ubuntu.com for bugs
[08:17] <Burgundavia> if you want to help with non-doc stuff, #ubuntu-love can help you with that
[08:55] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: have you seen the lycoris page?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> no, got a link?
[08:56] <jsgotangco> http://www.lycoris.com/products/desktoplx/desktop/
[08:56] <jsgotangco> this was before they got bought by mandriva
[08:56] <jsgotangco> check out the flow of features
[08:57] <Burgundavia> opening gets you a submenu?
[08:57] <jsgotangco> well yeah its kinda dumb, but i wanted you to see how they wrote it
[08:57] <Burgundavia> way too much clicking
[08:58] <jsgotangco> no not really on the presentation, its more on how they wrote it
[08:58] <Burgundavia> yes
[08:58] <jsgotangco> so basically this is a tour of their features
[08:59] <Madpilot> I see Lycoris has gone the MS "My <everything>" route too... ;)
[08:59] <jsgotangco> but we don't intend to be that specific unless we are making a marketing brochure
[08:59] <jsgotangco> Madpilot: this was years ago
[08:59] <jsgotangco> Madpilot: they used to be called Redmond Linux
[09:00] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: interesting... still, the basic brochure style has some nice features
[09:00] <Burgundavia> I find it massively click happy
[09:00] <Burgundavia> takes too much effort to read
[09:00] <Burgundavia> and their screenshots suck
[09:00] <Madpilot> yeah, there isn't enough on each page - but the tone & basic copy is nice
[09:00] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:01] <Burgundavia> their screenshots provide no context
[09:02] <Madpilot> in terms of the whole desktop, you mean?
[09:02] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:02] <Burgundavia> the menu ones are the worst
[09:02] <Burgundavia> I am left asking, where in the menu is this?
[09:03] <Madpilot> they've been cropped down too much - and whatever tree/popout structure they've got isn't visible
[09:03] <Burgundavia> here is another stupid thing
[09:03] <Burgundavia> all their titles are verbs
[09:03] <Burgundavia> http://www.lycoris.com/products/desktoplx/menu/pictures.php
[09:03] <Burgundavia> until you hit that page
[09:03] <Burgundavia> Creative is now a verb
[09:04] <Burgundavia> got productive their as well
[09:04] <Burgundavia> ok, I take that back, it is worse
[09:04] <Burgundavia> they are a mix of some verbs and some adjectives
[09:05] <Burgundavia> it looks bad
[09:05] <Burgundavia> choose one and stick with it
[09:07] <Burgundavia> mdke, T43? not bad
[09:09] <Madpilot> no mono in Breezy yet, then?
[09:11] <jsgotangco> T43?
[09:11] <jsgotangco> IBM?
[09:12] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, just muine borked
[09:12] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
[09:12] <jsgotangco> mdke should have gotten the biggest laptop since he's just in london :)
[09:13] <Burgundavia> he did
[09:13] <Burgundavia> 6 pounds to our 6
[09:13] <Burgundavia> 5
[09:13] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:13] <Burgundavia> mine is the lightest at just under 5, yours is 5.3
[09:13] <jsgotangco> im subscribing to gnome-doc
[09:13] <jsgotangco> it seems too quiet
[09:14] <Burgundavia> it is very very very quiet
[09:14] <jsgotangco> stir up the natives?
[09:14] <Madpilot> cue the creepy music?
[09:15] <Burgundavia> the only sounds are the big guns off shore, firing the string change notices
[09:15] <jsgotangco> its not that quiet at least Luis responds over there
[09:19] <Burgundavia> the only thing deader than gnome-doc is ubuntu-ca
[09:23] <mdke> :)
[09:23] <mdke> what have you guys got?
[09:23] <Burgundavia> mdke, I got a Toshiba Tecra a5 and jsgotangco got a Toshiba Tecra M2
[09:23] <mdke> what are they like?
[09:24] <Burgundavia> very similar
[09:24] <mdke> i have a heck of a lot of debugging to do ;)
[09:24] <Burgundavia> lighter
[09:24] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, has bluetooth
[09:24] <Burgundavia> mine is a full pound lighter than yours
[09:24] <Burgundavia> 14" screens
[09:24] <mdke> ah
[09:24] <mdke> well mine isn't too heavy, i quite like it
[09:24] <mdke> it's sexy
[09:25] <Burgundavia> mine is only 5 lbs
[09:25] <Burgundavia> you have a fingerprint reader in yours
[09:26] <mdke> yes
[09:26] <mdke> but it's a pile of shit
[09:27] <mdke> i get 3 tries for the power on password and it never reads my finger that quick
[09:27] <jsgotangco> whoa
[09:27] <mdke> ;)
[09:27] <jsgotangco> you already got yours eh
[09:27] <mdke> ratio is about 1 in 5
[09:27] <mdke> yes it arrived yesterday
[09:27] <jsgotangco> neat
[09:27] <Burgundavia> mine comes tomorrow
[09:27] <jsgotangco> did you jump for joy?
[09:27] <mdke> hoary doesn't work too well on it
[09:27] <jsgotangco> mdke: dont fret you'll  have windows in it for 3 releases
[09:27] <Burgundavia> ironically, hoary worked better than colony 2 on my fathers laptop
[09:28] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: tracking works?
[09:28] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, no, but fedex told my gf that it will be victoria tomorrow
[09:28] <jsgotangco> fedex?
[09:28] <jsgotangco> thought it was TNT
[09:28] <Burgundavia> tnt doesn't exist in NA
[09:28] <jsgotangco> ohh
[09:28] <Burgundavia> I assume they partner with fedex here
[09:28] <jsgotangco> TNT is big over here
[09:29] <jsgotangco> along with UPS
[09:29] <mdke> i like mine, but the one thing I really can't stand is laptops that put their function key on the left of the Ctrl key
[09:29] <mdke> grrrr
[09:29] <jsgotangco> i dont like IBMs at all
[09:29] <jsgotangco> i like touchpads
[09:29] <mdke> this has a touchpad
[09:29] <jsgotangco> and thinkpads have this useless LED on top of the lid that is supposed to illuminate the keyboard
[09:29] <mdke> yes it has that
[09:30] <jsgotangco> yeah its uselss the LCD is too bright
[09:30] <mdke> heh
[09:30] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, scorched 39 out today
[09:30] <jsgotangco> so you are 1 happy campter heh
[09:31] <Burgundavia> do we have any idea who else got a laptop?
[09:31] <jsgotangco> robitaille?
[09:31] <mdke> loads of people i think
[09:32] <jsgotangco> dholbach
[09:32] <jsgotangco> hmm
[09:32] <jsgotangco> seb
[09:32] <jsgotangco> ogra
[09:32] <jsgotangco> hmm
[09:32] <mdke> where is the list?
[09:32] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: cool. is it going to make breezy?
[09:32] <mdke> how stupid do you have to be to put the function key on the left of the ctrl key
[09:33] <mdke> argh!
[09:33] <Burgundavia> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=56027
[09:33] <Burgundavia> coolshould
[09:33] <jsgotangco> mdke: thinkpads are nicely supported on kde though with the keybindings
[09:33] <Madpilot> this list? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam
[09:33] <mdke> Madpilot, i think that is the list of applicants rather than the list of successful applicants
[09:34] <mdke> unless it has been tidied since yesterday
[09:34] <jsgotangco> we'll probably receive a test list when everything has been shipped
[09:34] <Madpilot> ah, OK, I just tripped over it in the wiki earlier this evening
[09:35] <mdke> hmm since installing hoary I can't get into the rescue partition any more
[09:37] <Burgundavia> mdke, you can contact ibm and get cds
[09:37] <Burgundavia> mdke, they don't ship them by default
[09:37] <mdke> i made cd's
[09:37] <mdke> i've been there before ;)
[09:37] <jsgotangco> is that a lenovo?
[09:38] <Burgundavia> it is now
[09:38] <rob^> hmm our svn repo is about 200mb
[09:38] <jsgotangco> it is
[09:39] <Burgundavia> that includes 2 upstream vendor drops
[09:39] <rob^> just burning a copy to cd to take to work soon
[09:40] <rob^> kde's svn repo for its docs is only around 10mb
[09:41] <jsgotangco> hmm there's nothing on tv except korean dramas
[09:41] <mdke> jeez hardly anything works on this laptop
[09:41] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, take a look at that forum link I just posted
[09:41] <jsgotangco> k
[09:41] <mdke> is there a team meeting tonight?
[09:42] <jsgotangco> mdke: we had a quickie meeting a few hours ago
[09:42] <jsgotangco> :)
[09:42] <mdke> eh?
[09:42] <jsgotangco> sorry i didnt say earlier
[09:42] <jsgotangco> almost everyone was online
[09:42] <mdke> ok
[09:42] <mdke> perhaps planning would be an idea for the future
[09:43] <mdke> will someone do a summary?
[09:43] <rob^> w00t! McGrath is playing in the third test!
[09:43] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: nice
[09:43] <mdke> rob^, noooo
[09:43] <jsgotangco> mdke: we just discussed what's the project status for people involved
[09:43] <mdke> cheating aussie bastards
[09:43] <rob^> our butts are saved!
[09:43] <jsgotangco> cricket?
[09:43] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes. it also shows how we misleading the breezygoals page is
[09:43] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, yes
[09:44] <rob^> aha
[09:44] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, even an ignorant Canuck knows that
[09:44] <mdke> ok jsgotangco but a meeting is needed which discusses the Yelp frontpage sooner or later, i also want to discuss what will become of the userguide
[09:44] <rob^> still have the normal meeting this week then
[09:44] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: this is full of erroneous info
[09:45] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, did you see my post below?
[09:45] <mdke> rob^, it's a bit late notice...
[09:45] <rob^> yeah
[09:45] <rob^> I was only here before for it by chance
[09:45] <mdke> that's np, but its a bit late notice for a full meeting
[09:46] <rob^> yeah
[09:46] <jsgotangco> mdke: we can arrange a quickie next week then
[09:46] <rob^> I wont be here if you did
[09:46] <jsgotangco> besides we have less than a month to go before freeze
[09:46] <Burgundavia> a specific meeting about the yelp front page?
[09:46] <jsgotangco> good idea
[09:46] <mdke> next week sounds good
[09:46] <rob^> early in the week maybe?
[09:46] <jsgotangco> sure
[09:47] <rob^> come on stupid cd, I'm going to be late for work
[09:47] <mdke> rob^, back to the cricket, you cheating aussies have clearly done that on purpose
[09:47] <rob^> yeah, well we had to at least let you think you were in for a chance
[09:48] <mdke> like we did last week ;)
[09:48] <jsgotangco> cricket is a cheater's game?
[09:48] <rob^> making it intresting
[09:48] <mdke> jsgotangco, only for aussies
[09:48] <Burgundavia> only if the aussies play it
[09:48] <jsgotangco> lol
[09:48] <Burgundavia> how else you can explain 60 years unbroken winning at the ashes?
[09:49] <rob^> skill
[09:49] <mdke> 15 years
[09:49] <jsgotangco> how about august 17?
[09:49] <Madpilot> Burgundavia has been spending too much time on the BBC website...
[09:49] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, still the best news out there
[09:49] <rob^> and the bad sports poms won't even let us take the trophy home
[09:51] <jsgotangco> August 17 14UTC for special docteam meeting on Front Page finalization?
[09:51] <Burgundavia> sure
[09:51] <Burgundavia> gets me up early
[09:51] <rob^> midnight sunday
[09:51] <rob^> nah, its ok I have a long weekend
[09:52] <rob^> might be a bit drunk though, wifes birthday party that night :)
[09:52] <mdke> dude august the 17 is a wednesday
[09:53] <rob^> oops, I thought it said 14
[09:53] <Burgundavia> 14:00 utc
[09:53] <rob^> heh my mistake
[09:53] <mdke> check out how many things aren't working on my laptop with hoary
[09:53] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MatthewEast/LaptopTestingHoary?action=show
[09:53] <rob^> yeah thats ok, I'll be out of town though so I wont be here
[09:54] <mdke> rob^, np a lot of the groundwork has been done by email
[09:54] <rob^> yeah
[09:54] <rob^> righto, gotta go to work now :...(
[09:55] <mdke> bye
[09:55] <mdke> will think of you during the cricket
[09:55] <rob^> I'll be watching it at work
[09:55] <rob^> :)
[09:55] <mdke> bad thoughts...
[09:56] <rob^> at least I'm getting paid to watch it...
[09:56] <mdke> :p
[09:56] <mdke> yeah that is cool
[09:56] <Burgundavia> mdke, did you shrink your windows partition with the hoary installer?
[09:56] <rob^> bye!
[10:01] <mdke_> gah
[10:01] <mdke_> what did i miss
[10:01] <HrdwrBoB> everything
[10:01] <Burgundavia> mdke, did you shrink your windows partition with the hoary installer?
[10:01] <mdke> Burgundavia, yes
[10:01] <Burgundavia> how did that go?
[10:02] <mdke> ok i think, windows works
[10:03] <Burgundavia> well, night all
[10:03] <Burgundavia> job search tomorrow
[10:03] <mdke> night
[10:34] <jsgotangco> mdke: our quickie meetings are nothing compared to the quiickies of edubuntu meetings
[11:00] <jsgotangco> brb
[02:11] <jjesse> morning
[02:12] <jjesse> did i miss the meeting again?
[03:20] <mgalvin> g'morning all
[03:24] <highvoltage> goodmorning
[03:56] <jjesse> moring mgalvin 
[05:18] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda   August 26th is a Friday, not a Thursday.  So is the next DocTeam meeting on the 25th or the 26th?
[05:21] <jjesse> depends on what time zone you are in?
[05:22] <robitaille> "Thursday, the 26th of August, 2005 at 14:00 UTC".  Usually docteam meetings are on Thursday...must be a typo on the date
[05:23] <jjesse> hmm just noticed that
[09:07] <mgalvin> is there still a need for the release notes doc since we are going to have the quick tour?
[09:09] <mgalvin> i was looking through it with the intention of updating it, but a lot of the stuff in the release notes will be in the quick tour(which also looks a LOT nicer)
[09:09] <mgalvin> thoughts?
[09:10] <mgalvin> mpt: ping
[09:53] <jjesse> mgalvin: hasn't been much said here for a long time :)
[09:54] <mgalvin> ghost town
[10:09] <jjesse> mgalvin: can i ask a simple question? in authors my name is spelled in correctly, i would like to create a new file and remove the mispelled file
[10:09] <jjesse> how do i do this?
[10:12] <mgalvin> jjesse: you can just - svn move mispelled correct
[10:12] <mgalvin> then make sure any docs that use the mispelled file now point at the correctly spelled file
[10:13] <jjesse> ok i'll work on it
[10:47] <mgalvin> hey rob^
[10:48] <rob^> hey
[10:48] <mgalvin> i'll try and find some time when i get home to break out some more sections
[10:49] <rob^> the faq guide is all yours for the next 10 hours
[10:49] <mgalvin> k, cool
[10:49] <rob^> cool
[10:51] <mgalvin> i got the deb package all set too, hopefully we can start getting ubuntu-doc seeded into breezy soon
[11:04] <mgalvin> later all
[12:04] <mpt> Who here is running Breezy?