[12:21] <jblack> stevea: http://www.bazaar-ng.org/demo/bzrdemo-2005-08-12-2.tar.gz
[12:30] <mpt> woohoo
[12:42] <SteveA> jblack: darn, back up to 20MB
[12:42] <jblack> Yeap.
[12:42] <jblack> most of it is the full bzr branch
[12:43] <SteveA> hmm... we need to choose a smaller codebase 
[12:43] <jblack> without the bzr history for bzr, it would be a bit smaller. 
[12:43] <SteveA> with a weave... ;-)
[12:43] <jblack> stevea: No. as in "bzr.dev" is about 18 megs
[12:43] <SteveA> oh, right
[12:44] <jblack> I put in a bzr with the full history so that people can pull a newer bzr. 
[12:44] <SteveA> so, bzr with history would be about 10MB in a .tar.gz
[12:45] <jblack> unpacked, the trees work out to:
[12:45] <SteveA> i think i won't mail the python guys about the demo just now.  can you co-ordinate with martin next week about a demo?
[12:45] <jblack> bzr.dev: 31 megs, Python-Tools: 2.2, 3.1, 3.2 megs
[12:46] <jblack> thats unpacked.
[12:46] <SteveA> hmm
[12:46] <SteveA> so, it would work out okay with just the bzr tool
[12:46] <SteveA> and not its history
[12:47] <SteveA> and instructions on how to get hold of a bzr source tree
[12:47] <SteveA> for intrested hackers
[12:47] <jblack> It would be a bit smaller, yes. About 6-8 megs of gzip for the bzr portion
[12:47] <SteveA> i'll take a look in a sec
[12:47] <SteveA> almost downloaded
[12:47] <jblack> However, if they want to get a more current bzr that's in bzr, they'll be taking 1-4 hours to get a bzr that is pullable
[12:48] <SteveA> i get unfriendly errors whenever i do something bad
[12:49] <jblack> in bzr? yeah
[12:49] <SteveA> i think i'll leave it for you to talk with martin and put together a nice demo
[12:49] <SteveA> i don't want IndexError on typos to leave a poor impression
[12:49] <jblack> In my personal opionion, bzr really isn't ready to show yet. 
[12:49] <SteveA> thanks for helping put this together
[12:49] <SteveA> i have a mail i'm about to send, explaining how we use baz 1.x with launchpad development
[12:49] <jblack> Its still missing the core parts, as I mentioned a few days ago, and its not optimized to do the remote stuff, and have small filesizes. 
[12:50] <jblack> For example, if there's a practical way to diff two branches, I haven't found it yet
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[01:38] <dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=BjornT]  clean up templates with names starting with 'b', fixing bug 927 (patch-2253: mpt@canonical.com, guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
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[06:23] <bob2> jblack: happy birthday!
[06:24] <jblack> Thank you! 
[06:24] <jblack> How are ya? 
[06:26] <jblack> bob2: ^^
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[06:31] <bob2> jblack: same old, same old
[06:33] <bob2> jblack: what've you been up to?
[06:34] <jblack> Mostly work, but a few interesting things.
[06:34] <jblack> Yesterday I had the fire department over. :) 
[06:34] <bob2> for tea?
[06:34] <bob2> or a fire?
[06:34] <jblack> Ironically, for a fire extinguisher. :) 
[06:35] <jblack> My daughter had been acting up for the last month or so, blowing me off seven or eight times for just about anything I asked.
[06:35] <jblack> So I decided to show her that just as quickly as I give something, I can give it away.
[06:36] <jblack> I took one of her gameboy games, stuck it on potted soil, doused it in rubbing alcohol, and lit it.
[06:36] <jblack> Got a really cute 6" red flame that eventually turned a bit blue.
[06:36] <jblack> Well, anyways, I had 3 old extinguishers that had been around the house for a few years, and finally decided to test it against this massive 6" flame on the back porch.
[06:37] <jblack> So I pulled the trigger on the little fire extinguisher, and my entire courtyard filled up with this awful smelling yellow smoke. 
[06:38] <jblack> big yellow cloud about 50 feet in radius, on a still day.
[06:38] <bob2> wow
[06:38] <jblack> the neighbors, mistaking a big huge cloud of smelly yellow fire retardant for fire smoke, called the fire department.
[06:39] <jblack> So they showed up for the first anti-fire in history
[06:40] <bob2> haha
[06:40] <bob2> see, that's far more exciting than my week
[06:41] <jblack> Oh, that was just yesterday. The rest of the week was just as surreal
[06:41] <jblack> If I could go back, I'd wear a helmet with a video cam on it
[06:42] <jblack> For example, imagine how it looks driving across town with a 5' tall, 575 pound safe, in a subaru station wagon. :) 
[06:43] <bob2> wtf
[06:43] <bob2> you staged a bank robbery?
[06:43] <jblack> Nah. Long story. 
[06:44] <jblack> That's really the higher point of that story, if you exlucde the comedy of watching a husband, a friend and an ex-wife trying to get a 5' tall, 575 pound safe up 5 steps and through a door that it doesn't fit through.
[06:45] <bob2> hahaha
[06:45] <bob2> it took me and 2 friends just to move my desk to my new place
[06:45] <bob2> if I'd had a safe I think I would have just bulldozed part of the house
[06:46] <jblack> As it turns out, you can either spend $360 on a sentry safe that looks secure, except it only resists breakin for 5 minutes (FIVE! And thats with common tools like sledge hammers and prybars), or you can spend $600 on a 5' tall gun safe that's only been broken into once (by rolling a tractor over it repeatedly)
[06:46] <bob2> okiedokie
[06:47] <jblack> (not this particular safe mind you, any of these safes, ever)
[06:47] <jblack> You got a new place? Cool!
[06:50] <bob2> yeah
[06:51] <bob2> it's quite cool, especially given it snowed the other day ;p
[06:51] <jblack> Did you leave australia? 
[06:51] <bob2> no
[06:51] <jblack> I didn't know it snowed anywhere in australia
[06:51] <spiv> He's still in Canbrrrrr.
[06:52] <bob2> it only snows every few years
[06:52] <bob2> and not much
[06:52] <bob2> but nonetheless
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[01:39] <j^> hi, i added NetworkManager to launchpad the other day, https://launchpad.net/products/network-manger and was wondering how to get it beond the Testing sync state.
[02:06] <lifeless> ddaa: ^^
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[03:01] <ddaa> j^: you're on the right track
[03:04] <j^> ddaa ware you planing to restructure the process of adding products to launchpad?
[03:04] <ddaa> Not right now. What are you suggesting?
[03:04] <j^> right now one has to go back to add Release Root Directory URL, Release Filename Patern
[03:05] <ddaa> Oh right.
[03:05] <ddaa> That sucks.
[03:05] <j^> its missing in the first mask to create a branch
[03:05] <j^> the other thing is that branch and series is mixed up all over the place
[03:05] <ddaa> Yup, I even believe there's a bug in malone about that.
[03:06] <j^> ah, ok
[03:06] <ddaa> Not sure when we'll come around to fixing that though. I do have more pressing functional problems to fix right now.
[03:07] <j^> i could not name the product NetworkManager
[03:07] <ddaa> but we are aware of those problems
[03:07] <j^> so i named it network-manager
[03:08] <ddaa> right, there's also a bug about the surprising behaviour there, we accept only lowercase names. Naming it network-manager was the right thing to do.
[03:08] <ddaa> (except for the typo, that I have just fixed, you called it "network-manger"
[03:09] <j^> yup, fixed that
[03:09] <ddaa> j^: so far, the code does the job and people use it essentially right. We are aware that some things are frustrating, but things that do not _actually_ work right take priority.
[03:10] <ddaa> I know that must be a disappointing answer.
[03:10] <ddaa> You can try nagging morgs about that. He did a pretty good job of fixing web UI nits for the past months, and maybe he's a bit less overloaded than I.
[03:10] <ddaa> (though technically, those problems are now mine)
[03:11] <j^> its not a big issue for me, just thought i bring it up.
[03:12] <ddaa> j^: one thing
[03:12] <ddaa> "main" and 0.4 should be different series
[03:13] <j^> 0.4 is main right now though
[03:14] <j^> so you suggest to change the display name from MAIN to 0.4 Development Series
[03:14] <ddaa> When looking at the CVS, it appears that it only contains a branch for 0.3
[03:14] <ddaa> that means that 0.4 series are (likely) release from MAIn
[03:15] <ddaa> therefore 0.4 _is_ the main series
[03:15] <j^> 0.3 was branched since it uses old versions of dbus and hal
[03:15] <ddaa> I'm suggesting one of two things
[03:16] <ddaa> 1. fix the name, summary, ftp glob, etc. to match MAIN
[03:16] <ddaa> 2. fix the display name to mention 0.4 and create a proper MAIN series to import the CVS MAIN into
[03:17] <ddaa> (the 2 might require some hoops since I believe we might have a constraint that requires the presence of a "main" series now)
[03:17] <ddaa> Not that it matters a lot.
[03:18] <ddaa> I'll do it.
[03:18] <j^> hm, so i would take out 0.4 all out for now, since its more main, which happens to be work on 0.4 right now
[03:19] <ddaa> In the current context, that would make more sense.
[03:19] <ddaa> You know about HCT?
[03:19] <j^> no, whats HCT?
=== j^ looks up https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadGlossary
[03:22] <ddaa> That's going to be a version control system designed specifically for distro packages.
[03:23] <ddaa> The whole release and series stuff is about providing data for HCT.
[03:23] <ddaa> (well, mostly, it's also used for other things, like translations)
[03:23] <j^> sounds good
[03:24] <j^> are you still changing things right now?, otherwise i would rename 0.4 to 0.3 and track that branch and use main for cvs MAIN
[03:28] <ddaa> Yup. I'm taking care of it
[03:28] <ddaa> Have a coffee, I'll tell you when the import is done or if there is a problem.
[03:28] <j^> cool, and thanks again.
[03:30] <ddaa> j^: one question
[03:30] <ddaa> NetworkManager-0.4.cvs20050506.tar.gz
[03:30] <ddaa> is that _really_ a release???
[03:31] <ddaa> bah... as long at it's not matching a bunch of daily cvs snapshots, that's okay.
[03:31] <j^> well, its a cvs snapshot
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[03:31] <j^> but there are no daily cvs snapshots
[03:32] <ddaa> Keybuk: I'm about to explain some things about the release and tarballs model and how it relates to HCT
[03:32] <ddaa> Keybuk: please correct me if I say something wrong
[03:32] <ddaa> j^: Keybuk is the the HCT guy.
[03:32] <j^> but dan(main developer, working for redhat) is not that good with putting up proper releases. afaik the ubuntu package will use cvs of some point
[03:33] <j^> thats what it does right now
[03:34] <ddaa> The basic model is that: we import the CVS mainline, then we import the release tarballs and try to attach them to the imported CVS history, that's meant to capture the changes between the CVS and the released tarballs, there are generally some. Then we import the packages and we attached them to release tarballs when present.
[03:35] <ddaa> So we get a complete RCS ancestry between upstream version control and distro packages.
[03:35] <ddaa> (which allows for whatever nifty merge features are provided by the RCS tool)
[03:36] <ddaa> Registering CVS snapshots there probably counts as noise, and might confuse that system.
[03:36] <ddaa> Keybuk: correct?
[03:37] <ddaa> The whole thing _can_ work without release tarballs, it should degrade gracefully.
=== ddaa ponders
[03:39] <ddaa> I think I'll keep your ftp data. Seems like the right thing to do after all.
[03:39] <j^> so it should also be ok to have upstream in cvs, have an arch branch for the distro package managed via launchpad;
[03:41] <ddaa> Right. I do not think we are quite there yet, but not far.
[03:41] <ddaa> If the upstream is not making releases at all, that would be the right thing to do.
[03:42] <ddaa> 775 revisions on MAIN, it's going to take a little while
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[05:03] <Keybuk> ddaa: actually, provided cvs snapshots are on a different series, they can be quite useful
[05:03] <ddaa> different from what?
[05:04] <ddaa> from rcs import, from packagerelease?
[05:04] <ddaa> from package?
[05:05] <ddaa> (me is still fuzzy about how packages relate to series)
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[07:47] <j^> for some users i can see there email on https://launchpad.net/people/username/ but not on https://launchpad.net/people/username/+emails - the second link will give me:  Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.
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[10:09] <ddaa> j^: http://bazaar.ubuntu.com/network-manager@bazaar.ubuntu.com/network-manager--MAIN--0
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[10:38] <superted> does anyone know when rosetta (or ubuntu at best) gets translations from GTP the last time for Breezy ?
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