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| Burgundavia | xhaker, please turn off your away mesage. It is quite annoying | 01:17 |
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| dabaR | Can I have operator status for #ubuntu-hr? | 01:24 |
| jdub | Burgundavia: hrm, maybe we should come up with some better standards for how to document the laptops and so on | 01:24 |
| jdub | Burgundavia: i'm sure mjg59 would have some ideas on what would be most helpful to him | 01:24 |
| Burgundavia | jdub, there are two parts that I see. the hoary stuff is mostly for community members and thus needs to be organized well | 01:25 |
| jdub | dabaR: you'll have to ask chanserv about who owns it | 01:25 |
| jdub | hoary stuff? | 01:25 |
| Burgundavia | the breezy stuff is for developers, so that bugs should mostly be in bugzilla | 01:25 |
| Riddell | ivoks owns #ubuntu-hr | 01:25 |
| Burgundavia | jdub, mdke and I had a disagrement about how to report | 01:25 |
| Burgundavia | jdub, is it enough to have a report for any stable release and a rolling report for the latest development? | 01:26 |
| jdub | i don't think the current release is all that relevant | 01:26 |
| jdub | the goal is to make sure we know the hardware, and know what the devel branch supports | 01:26 |
| Burgundavia | the current stable is useful for people looking to purchase a laptop | 01:26 |
| dabaR | jdub: thanks. | 01:26 |
| jdub | ok, i don't think that has much to do with the laptop testing team | 01:27 |
| dabaR | Riddell: ya, he does, well, cool. | 01:27 |
| jdub | we can document that stuff on a hardware support page somewhere | 01:27 |
| Burgundavia | no, but we might as well get the marketing win on it | 01:27 |
| jdub | Riddell: hey, have you seen fcrozat's XSETTINGS patches for KDE? | 01:27 |
| jdub | Burgundavia: right, but that's a different issue | 01:27 |
| Burgundavia | they did ask for a report on how the the current stable installs | 01:28 |
| Riddell | jdub: I don't think so | 01:28 |
| jdub | Burgundavia: sure, that's important to understanding where we're at from a benchmark release | 01:28 |
| jdub | Riddell: might be handy for nicer results when running apps in either environment | 01:29 |
| jdub | Riddell: fcrozat is an mdk developer, the patches might be in their cooker RPMs, but you can find him on gimpnet fairly regularly | 01:29 |
| Riddell | jdub: looks like a fun idea that, I'll make a note to investigate | 01:32 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, ping | 01:33 |
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| Riddell | jdub: what was the KDE stall at linuxworld like? | 01:33 |
| jdub | Riddell: they had a nice banner | 01:33 |
| tseng | i bet it was blue | 01:34 |
| jdub | Riddell: and at one point, they were getting people to shout out how much they loved kde for a xandros CD | 01:34 |
| jdub | for a *xandros* CD | 01:34 |
| jdub | insane ;-) | 01:34 |
| whiprush | hahah | 01:34 |
| whiprush | I wonder how many people threw it back | 01:34 |
| mjg59 | Burgundavia: Hi | 01:36 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, jdub and I were talking about standardizing the reports on the wiki | 01:36 |
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| Riddell | they really should have asked for kubuntu CDs in time, those things are worth shouting for | 01:36 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, what is most useful for you? | 01:36 |
| mjg59 | Burgundavia: I'm planning on writing a form for data submission, but.. | 01:36 |
| mjg59 | Basically I want to know whether stuff on the laptop checklist works by default or not | 01:36 |
| mjg59 | If it doesn't, I want to know how it doesn't work and if it can be made to work | 01:37 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, is there any reason why we don't just do this on the wiki? | 01:37 |
| mjg59 | If it works, I want to know nothing more | 01:37 |
| mjg59 | Burgundavia: Is it trivial to create ways to input data on the wiki that will result in a standardised format? | 01:37 |
| Burgundavia | yes | 01:37 |
| Burgundavia | I will create a standard table that they could copy and then fill out | 01:38 |
| mjg59 | Burgundavia: Ah. In that case, then do it via the wiki :) | 01:38 |
| mjg59 | (I should point out that I've just got back from Kamion's wedding, and so am nowhere near sober. This seems to be a recurring theme) | 01:38 |
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| Burgundavia | mjg59, the advantage of the wiki is that anyone can see the data. A form they submit to you might get lost | 01:38 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, both Matthew East and myself have gotten emails about how to make certain things on our laptops to work | 01:39 |
| mjg59 | Ok, cool | 01:39 |
| jdub | how was the wedding? | 01:40 |
| mjg59 | jdub: Excellent | 01:40 |
| mjg59 | (hic) | 01:40 |
| jdub | :-) | 01:40 |
| Burgundavia | I will build up a skeleton table and then ask for your comments | 01:40 |
| mjg59 | Burgundavia: Excellent, tanks! | 01:41 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, should be ready by monday | 01:42 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, quick question, do you care bout every point release in the development or only a rolling report? | 01:42 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, I mean, do I need to keep all the colony reports around? | 01:42 |
| mjg59 | Only a rolling report unless it's necessary to check whether something's reverted | 01:44 |
| Burgundavia | ok | 01:44 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, I am off, pm me if you have any further comments/issues/ideas | 01:45 |
| mjg59 | Burgundavia: Will do. Thanks for the help! | 01:45 |
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| Diablo-D3 | hows breezy coming? | 01:52 |
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| Diablo-D3 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals | 01:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | didnt that url use to be valid? | 01:58 |
| whiprush | remove the UbuntuDownUnder part | 01:59 |
| whiprush | it's just /BreezyGoals now | 01:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | is breezy still really really unstable, btw? | 02:00 |
| whiprush | depends I guess. | 02:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | depends on what, exactly? | 02:01 |
| === Diablo-D3 considers, say, debian sid stable. | ||
| whiprush | Don't know, I don't track sid. | 02:02 |
| whiprush | I don't have problems with it. | 02:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | you use any c++ apps? | 02:02 |
| whiprush | firefox and tbird | 02:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | and they work fine? | 02:03 |
| whiprush | yep | 02:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | any kde apps? | 02:03 |
| whiprush | no | 02:03 |
| Riddell | kde apps work fine | 02:05 |
| === Diablo-D3 ponders doing the upgrade dance then | ||
| Riddell | it's X that doesn't work | 02:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | ...... erk? | 02:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | doesnt work in what way? | 02:05 |
| Riddell | doesn't work in new and exciting ways each day | 02:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | eww | 02:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/%c2%b5buntu | 02:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | that looks cool | 02:12 |
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| Diablo-D3 | Riddell: 2.6.12 is in breezy isnt it? | 02:13 |
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| Riddell | linux-image-2.6.12-6 | 02:14 |
| === Diablo-D3 ponders | ||
| Diablo-D3 | broken X... new kernel.... | 02:14 |
| jdub | X is easy to get working | 02:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | cant see.... but its really shiney... | 02:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | jdub: just tell dpkg to hold X for me? ;) | 02:15 |
| jdub | no | 02:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | rewind to the previously known working version? | 02:15 |
| tseng | or read ubuntu-devel | 02:16 |
| === robitaille [n=daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| tseng | and follow a few simple steps | 02:16 |
| === Diablo-D3 should subscribe to ubuntu-devel | ||
| Diablo-D3 | hrm, how do I check what version of something is in linux-restricted-modules? | 02:18 |
| bur[n] er | jdub: about X being easy to get working... got a wiki page or some kind of reference? | 02:28 |
| === Diablo-D3 just downloads 2.6.12 from breezy manually | ||
| jdub | bur[n] er: have a look at recent threads on ubuntu-devel | 02:33 |
| bur[n] er | right on, will do | 02:35 |
| === bur[n] er has been content with remote Xing from a hoary box, but local X would be nice :) | ||
| === bur[n] er loves step three: profit! :) | ||
| bur[n] er | thanks jdub | 02:39 |
| mdz | Riddell: do we really only want krita in main, and not the rest of the koffice binaries? | 02:41 |
| mdz | Riddell: (is there any reason not to move them all together?) | 02:41 |
| mjg59 | mdz: Is there anything I should be worrying about right at the moment? | 02:42 |
| jdub | mjg59: balance, slurred speech, etc. | 02:43 |
| mdz | mjg59: hunger, poverty, poor medical care... | 02:43 |
| Riddell | mdz: I want krita on the CD because image manipulation is a missing feature from kubuntu, I'd be happy to have the rest in support, not sure what else it brings in | 02:43 |
| jammcq | mdz: howdie | 02:44 |
| mdz | Riddell: could you review the dependencies and see? if there aren't any new deps, we should just put them all in supported | 02:44 |
| mdz | jammcq: good evening | 02:44 |
| mdz | jammcq: congratulations on the LTSP award | 02:44 |
| jdub | Riddell: keep in mind that gimp is one of the first things we'd remove if space becomes more of an issue on the CD | 02:44 |
| jammcq | mdz: i've got a new machine, and i'm loading breezy now, to test out ltsp integration | 02:44 |
| mjg59 | Ah, good, nothing of any great concern | 02:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | you hate gimp that much? | 02:44 |
| jammcq | and thanks, we were all surprised with that award | 02:44 |
| jdub | Diablo-D3: no, it's just not important for the vast majority of users. it's cool, but it doesn't apply to the GCF. | 02:45 |
| jammcq | mdz: also, sbalneav is doing the same this evening | 02:45 |
| mdz | mjg59: feedback starting to flow in from LaptopTesting? | 02:45 |
| Riddell | jdub: GCF? | 02:45 |
| mdz | jammcq: glad to hear it | 02:45 |
| jdub | greatest common factor | 02:45 |
| Riddell | mdz: will do | 02:45 |
| mdz | jammcq: let me know if you have any questions not answered by the wiki | 02:45 |
| jammcq | k | 02:46 |
| jammcq | we should have some thin clients booting tonight | 02:46 |
| jdub | jammcq: i'm seriously considering ordering one of your little thin client boxes - they were way sweet | 02:46 |
| mdz | I'll be going out in 1.5 hours or so, and not back until quite late | 02:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | grr | 02:46 |
| === Diablo-D3 bangs head on desk | ||
| mdz | and at that point perhaps a little drunk | 02:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | how the hell do I find out what version of madwifi is in a package of linux-restricted-modules | 02:47 |
| mjg59 | mdz: A bit, yeah | 02:47 |
| jammcq | jdub: damn, I should have let you buy one that we had in sanfran, it would save you the shipping | 02:47 |
| mjg59 | mdz: The amd64 one is indescribable pain | 02:47 |
| jdub | jammcq: 'sok, i should probably do something with the hardware i already have first, lest pia beat me up :-) | 02:47 |
| jammcq | heh | 02:47 |
| === jdub is *sooooo* tempted to get a nice new desktop box with the google award money | ||
| bur[n] er | awww... X is still b0rked for me :\ maybe next week ;) | 02:48 |
| mjg59 | jdub: Spend it on beer. Or me. | 02:48 |
| paolo | jdub: SoC-er? | 02:48 |
| mjg59 | paolo: Nah, jdub is an open source luminary | 02:48 |
| paolo | Oh. | 02:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | jdub: google...award... money? | 02:48 |
| mjg59 | jdub is teh best open source love magnet | 02:49 |
| mdz | mjg59: do you have the lsb-base changes ready for when jbailey fixes the fifo thing? | 02:49 |
| mjg59 | mdz: It's about 5 lines, but yeah | 02:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | I wonder if ubuntu has a changelog | 02:49 |
| jdub | bur[n] er: it's not too hard to fix | 02:50 |
| jdub | Diablo-D3: every package has a change log under /usr/share/doc/<package>/ | 02:50 |
| mdz | it's more like 10 | 02:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | I meant for 'big' features that arent related to any one package | 02:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://lwn.net/Articles/142671/ | 02:50 |
| jdub | paolo: nup, i got an award at oscon for being noisy :-) | 02:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | like that | 02:50 |
| mdz | we call those "release notes" | 02:50 |
| mjg59 | mdz: 5, 10. It's less than an order of magnitude. | 02:51 |
| mdz | mjg59: I was musing over init scripts called by maintainer scripts post-boot | 02:51 |
| bur[n] er | jdub: i did the apt-get install xkbutils thing and step 2 of --force-confmiss on the xkeyboard thing... but no dice... i still get a blue ncurses based screen saying X encountered an error and I can do nothing but hard reboot back to 'recovery mode' | 02:51 |
| mjg59 | Don't trouble me with your powers of 2. | 02:51 |
| jdub | paolo: http://osdir.com/Article6677.phtml | 02:51 |
| mjg59 | mdz: Once usplash isn't running, usplash_write will exit silently | 02:51 |
| jdub | bur[n] er: check the log, then - i bet you just need to run a dpkg-reconfigure to get the right font paths | 02:51 |
| mjg59 | I /do/ need to code usplash_read (for encrypted filesystems) | 02:51 |
| mdz | mjg59: right, meaning that init scripts which currently print a message become silent | 02:51 |
| mjg59 | mdz: Mm? My plan was to do both | 02:52 |
| mdz | oh, I see | 02:52 |
| mdz | that's a fine idea | 02:52 |
| mjg59 | Then people can switch back to tty1 and see all the messages | 02:52 |
| jdub | mjg59: will usplash be able to print characters on non-white? (is that box just a guide in current artwork?) | 02:52 |
| mjg59 | jdub: It can do, yeah | 02:52 |
| jdub | cool | 02:52 |
| bur[n] er | jdub: i hate to be a bother, but reconfigure what package?? | 02:52 |
| mjg59 | I can't emphassise this enough | 02:52 |
| === jdub thinks black background will probably look the slickest | ||
| mdz | mjg59: the box is actually a functional place where text can scroll | 02:53 |
| mjg59 | *the artwork is shit because I cannot draw* | 02:53 |
| jdub | bur[n] er: xserver-xorg | 02:53 |
| mjg59 | mdz: Yes, but it's trivial to change this | 02:53 |
| mdz | er | 02:53 |
| mdz | s/mjg59/jdub/ | 02:53 |
| mjg59 | The box is drawn by the code | 02:53 |
| bur[n] er | thanks jdub, i'll give it a shot | 02:53 |
| mjg59 | It can draw a black box instead | 02:53 |
| mdz | jdub: you can play with usplash_write to see how it looks | 02:53 |
| jdub | mdz: do we *want* scrolling text on usplash sexiness? | 02:53 |
| mjg59 | jdub: There is scrolling text | 02:54 |
| mdz | jdub: if it's going to stay up all the way through to gdm, it should probably give some idea of what's going on, yes | 02:54 |
| mjg59 | Well, scolling in the same way as the console | 02:54 |
| paolo | jdub: cool - congrats :-) | 02:54 |
| jdub | paolo: :) | 02:54 |
| paolo | I'm a SoC, in fact :-P | 02:54 |
| paolo | SoC-er even. | 02:54 |
| jdub | mdz: i think i'd prefer something closer to the rhgb service title status | 02:54 |
| mdz | jdub: how is that different from what we have? | 02:55 |
| mjg59 | jdub: It's more SuSE bootsplash than rhgb | 02:55 |
| jdub | well, keep in mind that i haven't seen what it looks like post-initramfs | 02:55 |
| mdz | it looks the same only with status messages / progress bar | 02:55 |
| mjg59 | We show the same text as would appear on the console, but in a more attractive manner | 02:55 |
| mjg59 | Switching it to something more abstract is rather more effort | 02:56 |
| jdub | mjg59: one line at a time, or with scrolling lines? | 02:56 |
| mjg59 | jdub: Scrolling - otherwise stuff can vanish before you read it | 02:56 |
| === jdub thinks that's pretty reasonable tradeoff for looking elite | ||
| mdz | speaking of which, am I the only one for whom the GNOME splash text has missing characters in it? | 02:57 |
| jdub | if they want scrolling status, they can switch back to tty1 | 02:57 |
| mjg59 | jdub: The current state is that a few lines of text are scrolled in the box | 02:57 |
| jdub | should i be seeing usplash post-initramfs? | 02:58 |
| mjg59 | Not yet | 02:58 |
| j^ | why not just "Starting Services..." | 02:58 |
| mjg59 | Needs a touch more initramfs love | 02:58 |
| jdub | rhgb just shows the service name currently starting | 02:59 |
| j^ | even thats too much imho | 02:59 |
| mdz | because we spec'd this out 4 months ago and decided otherwise | 02:59 |
| mjg59 | jdub: What does it do in the case of failure? Display anything informational? | 02:59 |
| jdub | and you can click a disclosure triangle to get the scrolly bits (you don't even have to switch tty) | 02:59 |
| whiprush | yeah that > dropdown is neat | 02:59 |
| mjg59 | I think for now we go with a more attractive version of what we already have, and then redesign it in Breezy+1 | 02:59 |
| jdub | mjg59: you can pop open the hidden terminal with the disclosure widget if you care | 02:59 |
| === sladen hmmms about the state of usplash. | ||
| mjg59 | jdub: Urgh. Yeah, that's a bit more awkward to do since we don't run X | 03:00 |
| mdz | jdub: we're not going to do user interaction, at least not in this iteration | 03:00 |
| jdub | j^: it gives you an impression of progress | 03:00 |
| jdub | mdz: not suggesting it (we have tty switching anyway) | 03:00 |
| mjg59 | In principle bogl can do mouse input, but it's not going to be pretty | 03:01 |
| bur[n] er | jdub: possibly X is still broken with widescreen monitors?? | 03:01 |
| jdub | it's cool that rhgb does it, but i don't think lack of error status is reason to make it have the scrolly bit on the sexy screen | 03:01 |
| j^ | jdub thats what a progressbar could be for: Starting Services... [|||||........] | 03:01 |
| jdub | j^: don't have any meaningful way to understand startup period | 03:01 |
| mjg59 | j^ progress bars are a complete arse | 03:01 |
| bur[n] er | i reconfigured xserver-xorg, but I still get the curses based bluescreen with "Failed to start the X server (your graphical interface). It is likely that you it is not set up correctly. Would you like to view the X server output to diagnose the problem?" | 03:01 |
| sladen | j^: and how long is the progress bar? | 03:02 |
| jdub | bur[n] er: have you looked at the output? | 03:02 |
| mjg59 | They ought to increase at a linear speed, but we can't do that easily | 03:02 |
| jdub | mjg59: have you looked at SMF? | 03:02 |
| mjg59 | jdub: TBH, our screen is not very sey | 03:02 |
| bur[n] er | jdub: i can't... the screen is locked here... I can't even do ctrl+alt+f2 | 03:02 |
| mjg59 | jdub: Not yet. If it's possible in the future, I'll be happy | 03:02 |
| jdub | mjg59: we can make it sexy :) | 03:02 |
| bur[n] er | i can't ctrl+alt+bkspace either | 03:02 |
| mjg59 | s/sey/sexy/ | 03:02 |
| whiprush | bur[n] er: try ctrl-d | 03:02 |
| mjg59 | jdub: There's a limit to 640x480x16 colour sexiness | 03:02 |
| bur[n] er | whiprush: :) | 03:03 |
| jdub | mjg59: the windows one looks sweet, i don't think we'll have too much trouble | 03:03 |
| mjg59 | jdub: You think? I think we can do better than that, but I still don't think it'd look sexy | 03:03 |
| j^ | sladen does that matter? did you ever see a progress bar that had anything todo with the time it takes | 03:04 |
| === jp [n=Juan@200-126-81-18.bk6-dsl.surnet.cl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| jdub | we must! WE MUST! | 03:04 |
| sladen | with a bountie and some rub-in oil, anything can be made to look sexy... | 03:04 |
| jdub | FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION | 03:04 |
| mjg59 | j^: Progress bars that have no relation to the time it takes are teh suck | 03:04 |
| j^ | mjg59 use a spinning wheel | 03:04 |
| mjg59 | Nngh. | 03:05 |
| jdub | rhgb has service name and a spinner | 03:07 |
| mjg59 | rhgb has better graphical primitives | 03:10 |
| sladen | rhgb has VTE and a full gtk widget set | 03:10 |
| mjg59 | Yes | 03:11 |
| === sladen should do something about usplash, but doesn't want to get the blame if it still looks teh scuk0r | ||
| jdub | sure, but i'm not suggesting we need to go that far to improve usplash sass value | 03:12 |
| jdub | in terms of status, i'm trying to say that scrolly text smells, and a simple service name (or even just a single line of normal output) will be nicer | 03:13 |
| j^ | an image like http://www.neystadt.org/john/album/London2003/DSCN1246-London-Eye-Wheel.JPG with turning wheel would be cool | 03:13 |
| jdub | heh | 03:14 |
| jdub | in sixteen colours, when full screen updates are quite slow? :-) | 03:14 |
| sladen | lsb init works for standard Ubuntu packages; you have to resort to screen-scraping unless you just use /etc/init.d/$name | 03:14 |
| mjg59 | jdub: You're not going to see most of those service names, and you're not going to get any useful diagnostic output | 03:14 |
| bmonty | is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive the only source of package mirror info?? | 03:15 |
| jdub | mjg59: you can switch to tty1 for diagnostic output if you need it | 03:15 |
| jdub | mjg59: look at the windows startup screen - no diagnostic output | 03:15 |
| mjg59 | jdub: But that also sucks | 03:15 |
| jdub | mjg59: same with the mac one | 03:15 |
| sladen | j^: you're about 16777200 colours short of being able to do that | 03:15 |
| mjg59 | "Please press these obscure keys if you want to know what's going on" | 03:15 |
| jdub | mjg59: for a desktop, that's not ridiculous. | 03:15 |
| mjg59 | jdub: It's not ridiculous once we have the infrastructure to log those failures | 03:16 |
| jdub | (it's harder to get that output on mac and windows) | 03:16 |
| mjg59 | With our current infrastructure, if something fails on startup the user will never notice (assuming using your suggestion) | 03:16 |
| mjg59 | And that sucks | 03:16 |
| jdub | it's not like they could do a whole bunch about it even if they could see it | 03:17 |
| jdub | and it scrolls by quickly already anyway | 03:17 |
| mjg59 | No, but they'd know something was broken | 03:17 |
| jdub | and they don't see all the output because gdm starts early | 03:17 |
| sladen | they can't fix even if they do see it. | 03:17 |
| mjg59 | The alternative is that stuff just doesn't work and they have no idea whyt | 03:17 |
| sladen | snap. It'll just scare them into turning the computer off during fsck | 03:17 |
| mjg59 | gdm starts after everything that's important for the desktop | 03:17 |
| jdub | mjg59: can we automagically switch to tty1 when an init script has an error? | 03:18 |
| jdub | that at least is a major visual warning | 03:18 |
| mjg59 | jdub: Not in a terribly easy way | 03:18 |
| mjg59 | jdub: Especially given that it's expected for a couple of scripts to fail (ntpdate, for instance) | 03:18 |
| mjg59 | I guess we could fix those | 03:18 |
| === jdub is not convinced that seeing non-blocking startup errors is wildly useful on a desktop system anyway | ||
| j^ | what about fixing all those network scripts | 03:19 |
| jdub | mjg59: yeah, that would uglify it unnecessarily | 03:19 |
| bur[n] er | jdub: i see my X output and find that it can't find the "fixed" font and I should have x-window-system installed, but there is no package x-window-system... any ideas? I promise, it's my last question for the eve ;) | 03:19 |
| mjg59 | jdub: If hal fails to start, we ought to tell the user | 03:19 |
| === bur[n] er feels like he's close | ||
| mjg59 | bur[n] er: Install xfonts-base | 03:20 |
| sladen | j^: all those network scripts should be made to hook a callback for when the network status changes; then ntp can at least do something sensible | 03:20 |
| jdub | bur[n] er: if you do a dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg and have xfonts-base installed, it should work | 03:20 |
| bur[n] er | mjg59: already newest version | 03:20 |
| whiprush | jdub: this smf stuff jive license-wise? | 03:20 |
| jdub | whiprush: CDDL, not a problem | 03:20 |
| j^ | sladen yup, and use NetworkManager/dbus for the network status | 03:20 |
| jdub | (and the minor nits with CDDL sun is willing to fix) | 03:20 |
| whiprush | interesting | 03:21 |
| mjg59 | CDDL isn't an obvious problem | 03:21 |
| jdub | j^: we may get NM for breezy, but it's unlikely that we'll get that level of integration just yet :) | 03:21 |
| mjg59 | It's obviously meant to be a free software license. If there are any problems, they'll fix them | 03:21 |
| mjg59 | It's not worth the PR loss otherwise | 03:21 |
| bur[n] er | aww... dpkg-reconfigure xfonts-base did the trick :) | 03:21 |
| bur[n] er | thank you all so much! | 03:21 |
| sladen | bur[n] er: I had that issue on my R31. I didn't get to the root of where it wasn't finding the 'fixed' font. but just installing xbase-fonts isn't enough | 03:21 |
| j^ | jdub i fixed NM today, including modem support http://bootlab.org/~j/bazaar/network-manager--ubuntu--5.11/ | 03:22 |
| jdub | rawk :) | 03:22 |
| sladen | bur[n] er: ta, I'll try that | 03:22 |
| bur[n] er | sladen: gl :) | 03:22 |
| sladen | mjg59: having spoken to the people who made the decision; up until 6 months before release they were expecting to use GPLv3 | 03:23 |
| whiprush | hmm, some people are claiming less than 10 second boot times. | 03:23 |
| jdub | whiprush: you can get to a shell extremely quickly. but that's cheating. :-) | 03:24 |
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| j^ | what about a bios with webbrowser? | 03:24 |
| mjg59 | sladen: GPLv3's existence would have made this easier | 03:24 |
| sladen | j^: gcc lynx*.c -static -m8086 | 03:25 |
| sladen | mjg59: yes, their point of decision was 'needing' the patent crap | 03:25 |
| sebest | i have a strange behaviour with breezy X, any key i type on my keyboard change the resolution of X | 03:26 |
| sladen | mjg59: you would have enjoyed meet^flaming simon phipps | 03:27 |
| bur[n] er | sladen: reconfiguring xfonts-base worked to get X up then? | 03:28 |
| sladen | bur[n] er: dunno, I'll try | 03:28 |
| jdub | man, oil-cooled PCs freak me out | 03:30 |
| j^ | jdub oil? its all about liquid nitrogen now. | 03:31 |
| Riddell | mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLatexXFTFonts created, koffice added to supported | 03:34 |
| sladen | is there any point gdm looping a failing X 3 times instead of just once? | 03:35 |
| sladen | ...and then giving a message dialogue where the only way out is Alt-SysReq-e | 03:35 |
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| sladen | bur[n] er: can you do dpkg -S /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc and see what's owning it? | 03:37 |
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| bur[n] er | sladen: i have no misc directory in ....X11/fonts/ | 03:38 |
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| whiprush | hmmm | 03:43 |
| sladen | bur[n] er: alt-sysreq-r (reset keyboard) gets the Alt-Fn VT switching back... GDM needs to not ask it's your-xserver-is-fucked on VT7... | 03:43 |
| whiprush | was networkmanager deferred? | 03:43 |
| bur[n] er | sladen: ctrl+d ? | 03:45 |
| jdub | whiprush: undecided atm | 03:46 |
| jdub | whiprush: afair | 03:46 |
| whiprush | there's a patch sitting in #13070. | 03:47 |
| mdz | Riddell: thanks. feeling better | 03:50 |
| mdz | ? | 03:50 |
| Riddell | mdz: yes thanks (although I'm heading my flatmate coughing tonight, which is a bad sign) | 03:51 |
| Riddell | s/heading/hearing/ | 03:51 |
| Riddell | mdz: what's your preference for smime support or demoting gnupg2? | 03:58 |
| mdz | Riddell: is upstream any closer to a release? it's a development snapshot, right? | 03:58 |
| mdz | I'd prefer to demote it unless it's supported upstream | 03:59 |
| sebest | my X is looking for XKeysymDB in /usr/lib/X11 but it is in /usr/share/X11 ... | 04:05 |
| Riddell | "GnuPG 1.9 is the current development version of GnuPG. Despite of | 04:09 |
| Riddell | that, most parts (in particular GPG-AGENT and GPGSM) are considered | 04:09 |
| Riddell | ready for production use." | 04:09 |
| Riddell | http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-announce/2005q2/000196.html | 04:09 |
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| === mpt guesses it's rather difficult to take screenshots of usplash | ||
| Lathiat | hrm, python-gtk2 is missing a dependancy on python-cairo | 04:22 |
| sladen | mpt: while true; sleep 5; cat /dev/fb0 > screenshot; done | 04:22 |
| mpt | "sleep 5"? It should have finished before 5 seconds is up :-) | 04:23 |
| === mpt ducks | ||
| sladen | can somebody with a working breezy Xorg setup try dpkg -S fixed | grep font to see if you can turn up where the fixed fonts are living now | 04:24 |
| OddAbe19 | one sec | 04:25 |
| OddAbe19 | root@ubuntu:/home/oddabel # dpkg -S fixed | grep font | 04:25 |
| OddAbe19 | console-data: /usr/share/consolefonts/grfixed.psf.gz | 04:25 |
| OddAbe19 | root@ubuntu:/home/oddabel # | 04:25 |
| OddAbe19 | one more sec | 04:25 |
| sladen | OddAbe19: okay, thanks. I think I've found the root cause elsewhere | 04:26 |
| OddAbe19 | Section "Files" | 04:26 |
| OddAbe19 | # FontPath "unix/:7100" # local font server | 04:26 |
| OddAbe19 | # if the local font server has problems, we can fall back on these | 04:26 |
| OddAbe19 | FontPath "/usr/share/X11/fonts/misc" | 04:26 |
| OddAbe19 | FontPath "/usr/share/X11/fonts/cyrillic" | 04:26 |
| OddAbe19 | FontPath "/usr/share/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled" | 04:26 |
| OddAbe19 | FontPath "/usr/share/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled" | 04:26 |
| OddAbe19 | FontPath "/usr/share/X11/fonts/Type1" | 04:26 |
| OddAbe19 | FontPath "/usr/share/X11/fonts/CID" | 04:26 |
| OddAbe19 | FontPath "/usr/share/X11/fonts/Speedo" | 04:26 |
| OddAbe19 | FontPath "/usr/share/X11/fonts/100dpi" | 04:26 |
| OddAbe19 | FontPath "/usr/share/X11/fonts/75dpi" | 04:26 |
| OddAbe19 | lol | 04:26 |
| sladen | sssh. /etc/X11/fonts/misc vs. /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc | 04:27 |
| bur[n] er | :) | 04:28 |
| jp | wow | 04:28 |
| jp | that's cool | 04:28 |
| jp | :P | 04:28 |
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| sladen | daniels: xfonts-base is broken. It's missing a symlink /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc -> ../../../share/X11/fonts/misc | 04:35 |
| sladen | jdub: re: your example earlier. I've just started GDM on a system with *nothing* running (result of several sysreq-e's) ...the result is just that I got a dialogue saying ''couldn't init HAL''. The system doesn't actually seem to be affected otherwise! | 04:37 |
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| _d4vid | i haved problems with my firefox.. flash freezed my firefox.. now iam installed debian unstable version 1.0.6.2 works fine.. | 05:02 |
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| quad | is there a problem with gdm in breezy? i get a message in my syslog that says something about gdm not being able to start greeter | 05:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | heh | 05:33 |
| quad | my internet also only works for the fist 30 seconds i have it turned one! | 05:35 |
| quad | *on | 05:35 |
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| whiprush | jdub: is there a "polish" keyword, or some kind of "it'd be easy, given attention | 06:22 |
| whiprush | " | 06:22 |
| jdub | hrm? | 06:23 |
| whiprush | for example, bug 6853 | 06:23 |
| === jdub doesn't understand the question, hopes the bug enlightens :) | ||
| whiprush | It's been fixed in opensuse. | 06:24 |
| whiprush | well, the icon is crap, sounds trivial to fix. | 06:24 |
| jdub | *oh* | 06:24 |
| whiprush | I was thinking of something like, is there a bugzilla keyword for "low hanging UI fruit." | 06:24 |
| jdub | polish bug keyword :-) | 06:24 |
| whiprush | right | 06:24 |
| === jdub read that as pole-ish, as in the country :-) | ||
| whiprush | heh | 06:25 |
| jdub | yeah, trivial or enhancement is appropriate | 06:25 |
| jdub | but keyword... not really | 06:25 |
| whiprush | gnome bugzilla has an easy_fix keyword, you think this would fit? | 06:26 |
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| jdub | i think we have one too | 06:28 |
| === jdub checks | ||
| jammcq | mdz: ping | 06:28 |
| jdub | yeah, easyfix | 06:28 |
| whiprush | marked | 06:29 |
| whiprush | jammcq: he mentioned something about going out tonight and getting drunk | 06:29 |
| jammcq | hey jorge,jeff | 06:29 |
| jammcq | hmm | 06:29 |
| jdub | yo jammcq | 06:29 |
| whiprush | or something to that effect. | 06:29 |
| jdub | jammcq: i didn't realise you guys got an LWE award - congrats! | 06:29 |
| jammcq | jdub: yeah, we sure did :) | 06:29 |
| jdub | ah bum | 07:00 |
| jdub | is the image built in to usplash? | 07:00 |
| jdub | bum, yes | 07:02 |
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| _d4v_d | see u all .. bye | 08:01 |
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| mdz | jammcq: pong | 10:39 |
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| ploum | Hello | 11:09 |
| ploum | is there any bugzilla admin here ? | 11:10 |
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| Amaranth | ploum: It's still the weekend, I doubt it. :) | 11:20 |
| ploum | Amaranth, just, I forgot it ! | 11:24 |
| ploum | for me, there's no difference between those days ;-) | 11:25 |
| Lathiat | heh | 11:25 |
| Lathiat | same | 11:25 |
| ploum | well, so I've no more reason to not studying :-( | 11:25 |
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| sivang | MOrning all | 12:16 |
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| mdke | i'd like to test an alternative method of resizing my windows partition before installing Ubuntu, rather than using the install CD. Does anyone know a nice free solution? | 12:16 |
| Lathiat | parted on a live cd? | 12:17 |
| mdke | trying to pin down bug #13390 | 12:17 |
| Lathiat | run ubuntu live and install gparted | 12:17 |
| mdke | Lathiat, doesn't the install cd use parted? | 12:17 |
| Lathiat | probably | 12:17 |
| mdke | i need an alternative | 12:17 |
| Lathiat | theres also 'ntfsresize' | 12:17 |
| Lathiat | it might use that | 12:17 |
| Lathiat | i dunno | 12:17 |
| Lathiat | hell parted might even call that | 12:18 |
| sivang | jamesh: around ? | 12:18 |
| Amaranth | the only two i know of are parted and PartitionMagic | 12:18 |
| Lathiat | yeh | 12:18 |
| davyd | I think it uses ntfsresize | 12:19 |
| Lathiat | err | 12:19 |
| Lathiat | is it just me | 12:19 |
| Lathiat | or is his diagnostics partition in the middle of his linux partition | 12:19 |
| davyd | hoary also does it without any logging to the d-i screen from memory | 12:19 |
| Lathiat | oh | 12:19 |
| Lathiat | its not | 12:19 |
| mdke | partition magic is not free tho | 12:19 |
| davyd | which is strange and wrong | 12:19 |
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| pitti_ | Moin | 12:57 |
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| sivang | pitti: Moins Martin :) | 01:00 |
| sivang | Doh, he logged off | 01:01 |
| sivang | ah no he didn't :) | 01:02 |
| sivang | mdz: Hi, did launchpad integration made feature freeze basically? | 01:04 |
| sivang | s/basically/eventually/ | 01:04 |
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| pitti | sivang: no, still here :-) | 01:11 |
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| mantiena | Hi all | 01:43 |
| mantiena | mdz, hi, are you online ? | 01:44 |
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| sivang | pitti: yeah, I noticed - security work? | 01:57 |
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| mantiena | mdz, hello | 03:32 |
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| pef | hi | 03:38 |
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| mjg59 | Hrm. Which package has xev ended up in? | 03:43 |
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| \sh | mjg59: i would like to help u but apt-file is not installable | 03:52 |
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| mjg59 | Hrngh. | 03:55 |
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| mjg59 | xmodmap has vanished as well | 03:55 |
| highvoltage | really? | 03:55 |
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| mjg59 | highvoltage: Well, it doesn't seem to be on my system | 03:58 |
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| siretart | mjg59: sorry for the bugreport. I couldn't imagine that celerons M do not support frequency scaling | 03:58 |
| Lathiat | siretart: they dont? | 03:58 |
| siretart | Lathiat: appearently not | 03:59 |
| Lathiat | eww | 03:59 |
| mjg59 | siretart: No problem | 03:59 |
| Lathiat | i guess theyre celerons | 03:59 |
| mjg59 | It's the distinguishing factor of them | 03:59 |
| siretart | mjg59: is p4-clockmod not an option? | 04:01 |
| mjg59 | siretart: I don't think so - it's likely to be a Pentium M core, not a P4 one | 04:01 |
| siretart | damn. gotta go. bbl | 04:03 |
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| mantiena | mdz, wake up ;) | 04:47 |
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| trygvebw | Hi. Is the GTK 2.8 in breezy compiled with Cairo support? | 05:19 |
| tseng | yes | 05:20 |
| trygvebw | okay :) | 05:20 |
| trygvebw | great. | 05:20 |
| trygvebw | Are there any icon sets or GTK themes that use Cairo? | 05:20 |
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| Lathiat | theres some beta clearlooks stuff | 05:22 |
| luis_ | where is that beta clearlooks in cvs? | 05:22 |
| trygvebw | yeah, i saw that, but it's not avaiable, or..? | 05:22 |
| === luis_ was just looking for it, couldn't find it | ||
| trygvebw | *available | 05:22 |
| tseng | http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/clearlooks/clearlooks-cairo/ | 05:22 |
| trygvebw | great | 05:23 |
| luis_ | oh, I thought it was on a branch | 05:23 |
| tseng | sort of :) | 05:23 |
| luis_ | though | 05:24 |
| luis_ | hrm | 05:24 |
| luis_ | I thought all clearlooks devel was moving to gnome cvs? | 05:24 |
| === luis_ is very confused now | ||
| tseng | huh, if i checkout clearlooks module i dont ahve that dir | 05:25 |
| tseng | it is its own module | 05:25 |
| luis_ | http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk-engines/engines/clearlooks/src/ ? | 05:27 |
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| luis_ | hrm | 05:28 |
| luis_ | thos's email seems to say that gtk-engines is canonical | 05:29 |
| luis_ | http://www.mail-archive.com/desktop-devel-list@gnome.org/msg02174.html | 05:29 |
| trygvebw | so it's in gtk-engines? | 05:31 |
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| luis_ | yeah | 05:31 |
| trygvebw | ok. | 05:32 |
| luis_ | AFAICT that is the canonical one | 05:32 |
| luis_ | though it sure looks like there is some devel going on at sf.net still | 05:32 |
| trygvebw | okay | 05:33 |
| trygvebw | so i just download it from CVS and then configures it with ./configure --disable-crux --disable-hc --disable-industrial --disable-lightouseblue --disable-metal --disable-mist --disable-redmond --disable-smooth --disable-thinice --prefix=/usr | 05:37 |
| trygvebw | huh | 05:37 |
| trygvebw | oh well | 05:37 |
| tseng | yeah so | 05:38 |
| trygvebw | okay. | 05:38 |
| tseng | clearlooks-cairo considered slightly unstable | 05:38 |
| trygvebw | i guessed since it is in cvs only ;) | 05:38 |
| trygvebw | *installed* | 05:38 |
| trygvebw | hmm | 05:39 |
| trygvebw | should i restart X maybe | 05:39 |
| trygvebw | let's see... | 05:39 |
| trygvebw | nope | 05:41 |
| trygvebw | ahh | 05:41 |
| trygvebw | i have forgot to upgrade gnome :) | 05:41 |
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| trygvebw | anything else i need to do? | 05:45 |
| Lathiat | pray | 05:47 |
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| trygvebw | :/ | 05:54 |
| trygvebw | Is the GNOME in breezy broken? | 06:00 |
| Lathiat | n o | 06:00 |
| trygvebw | ok. | 06:00 |
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| jp | Is the X in breezy broken? | 06:07 |
| tseng | no. | 06:09 |
| trygvebw | so dist-upgrading is safe? | 06:10 |
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| trygvebw | or just upgrading gnome-desktop-environment? | 06:10 |
| jp | tseng thanks | 06:11 |
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| jammcq | mdz: ping | 06:31 |
| jp | the | 06:35 |
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| mdz | jammcq: pong | 06:38 |
| jammcq | hey | 06:42 |
| jammcq | mdz: do you have some time to go over a few issues with ltsp/breezy ? | 06:42 |
| mdz | jammcq: sure | 06:42 |
| jammcq | it's not launching a gui login screen for the thin client | 06:42 |
| jammcq | I get a text login, but none of my user accounts work | 06:42 |
| mdz | yeah, there are no user accounts on the client | 06:43 |
| jammcq | also, after upgrading hoary to breezy, eth0 doesn't automatically come up | 06:43 |
| mdz | the easiest way to debug is to chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd root | 06:43 |
| jammcq | I have to do a 'ifup eth0' | 06:43 |
| mdz | jammcq: that's http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13398 | 06:43 |
| mdz | once you've set a root password and can login, check /var/log/ldm.log | 06:44 |
| sivang | mdz: ping, do you have a couple of minutes to talk about launchpad-integration ? | 06:45 |
| mdz | sivang: ok | 06:45 |
| jammcq | mdz: also, it is taking 5-1/2 minutes to boot a thin client | 06:46 |
| sivang | mdz: has everything went ok? I see that evo was not patched (Accoridng to wiki page) and that applets were probably not addressed, were their any difficulties with the bonobo helper? | 06:46 |
| jammcq | not exactly speedy, i'd say | 06:46 |
| mdz | the new linux-restricted-modules infrastructure is a huge penalty for thin clients | 06:47 |
| mdz | I think we'll probably have to disable it | 06:47 |
| Lathiat | whys that? | 06:47 |
| jammcq | what is 'linux-restricted-modules' ? | 06:47 |
| mdz | jammcq: apt-cache show linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12-6-386 | 06:47 |
| mdz | Lathiat: because it takes a long time to do its work over NFS | 06:47 |
| mdz | sivang: you need to ask seb128 | 06:48 |
| Lathiat | mdz: ah | 06:48 |
| sivang | mdz: ah ok, I saw you last edited the page so I figured to ask you , thanks anyway | 06:48 |
| mdz | sivang: I just reorganized it | 06:48 |
| sivang | mdz: k, cool | 06:48 |
| jammcq | also, I initially, I tried using my existing dhcp server, but I was unable to get ROOTSERVER to be anything other than the IP address of the DHCP server | 06:50 |
| jammcq | so, I setup dhcpd on the breezy box, but had lots of problems because the breezy IP address was 192.168.254.149, and dhcpd had a hard time with that. | 06:51 |
| mdz | jammcq: is your existing dhcp server something other than ISC dhcpd? | 06:52 |
| jammcq | yes, ISC dhcpd 3.0 | 06:52 |
| pef | bye ! | 06:52 |
| mdz | jammcq: you tried "next-server <ip address of the NFS server>;" ? | 06:53 |
| jammcq | yeah, pxe doesn't honor that, so it wouldn't get the kernel from the right place | 06:54 |
| mdz | that works fine with my thinkpad | 06:54 |
| Lathiat | might depend on the bios | 06:54 |
| Lathiat | and/or network chipset | 06:55 |
| jammcq | i'm using an HP T5305 thin client | 06:55 |
| jammcq | sbalneav had some problems last night too, but they were different. he's getting a libc6 issue from the initramfs | 06:57 |
| jammcq | his thin client has a via-533 cpu, and I wonder if there's something about the way glibc was built that the via doesn't like | 06:58 |
| mdz | jammcq: hmm, can I get more detail about the initramfs issue? | 07:02 |
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| mdz | oh, I see | 07:03 |
| mdz | initramfs-tools seems to be choosing to include the glibc used on the server | 07:03 |
| jammcq | mdz: not till tonight, when sbalneav gets back online. he's out doing family things | 07:03 |
| jammcq | hmm, server glibc is really NOT what we want for the client | 07:03 |
| mdz | I don't think it should be fatal though | 07:03 |
| mdz | the important stuff in initramfs uses busybox or klibc | 07:04 |
| siretart | mjg59: around? | 07:04 |
| mdz | klibc should be plenty to start a thin client | 07:04 |
| siretart | mjg59: success with p4-clockmod with Celeron M, powernowd does throttle the cpu nicely | 07:05 |
| jammcq | well, when scott gets back later, he'll have to explain what it's doing | 07:05 |
| mdz | I only have one netbootable system which isn't an i686, and it's my router so I can't use it as a test platform | 07:05 |
| mdz | should be trivial to fix though | 07:06 |
| mdz | if he could file a bug in bugzilla against initramfs-tools, that would be great | 07:06 |
| jammcq | k | 07:06 |
| mjg59 | siretart: Really? Gosh | 07:09 |
| mjg59 | siretart: I wouldn't recommend it - the latancy is quite poor with p4-clockmod | 07:09 |
| siretart | mjg59: yes, I'm just writing a comment on the bugzilla entry | 07:09 |
| mjg59 | We ended up blacklisting it because of that. I didn't know it worked on Celerons, though | 07:09 |
| siretart | mjg59: hey, it's still better than nothing | 07:09 |
| mjg59 | siretart: Arguably not :( | 07:09 |
| siretart | huh? what problems will arise? | 07:10 |
| jammcq | dhcpd seems to be doing odd things. for instance, I have 'range 192.168.0.20 192.168.0.63', and it handed out an address of 192.168.0.244 to the client | 07:11 |
| mdz | are you sure it's talking to the right dhcp server? | 07:11 |
| mjg59 | The processor doesn't speed up fast enough when an application needs CPU time | 07:11 |
| Lathiat | if it saves power can be usefull to lock it down | 07:11 |
| mdz | jammcq: ah, I know | 07:11 |
| mdz | jammcq: you're using ltsp-server-standalone, which overrides the config file with /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf | 07:12 |
| mdz | it should probably install /etc/dhcp3/README.ltsp or something | 07:12 |
| jammcq | huh ? | 07:12 |
| jammcq | ah | 07:12 |
| jammcq | ooh, that's scary | 07:12 |
| jammcq | that would explain my problem with 192.168.254.149 too | 07:13 |
| siretart | mjg59: hm. true, indeed. openoffice2 starting quite sloppy. what would be the right solution then? improving speedstep_centrino? | 07:14 |
| Lathiat | imho powernowd itself is slow | 07:15 |
| Lathiat | the ondemand schedular in the kernel gives much better performance | 07:15 |
| Lathiat | possibly less power saving but it wasnt terrible | 07:15 |
| jammcq | but.... I am VERY impressed with how quickly breezy boots and gets to a login screen on the server | 07:17 |
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| mdz | jammcq: compared to Hoary? I wouldn't expect a dramatic difference | 07:20 |
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| mdz | we made a lot of improvements in that area for Hoary though | 07:21 |
| Keybuk | that being said, breezy does seem to boot a lot faster than hoary by sheer accident | 07:22 |
| Keybuk | default install is about 10-15s faster | 07:22 |
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| mjg59 | siretart: Having a non-crippled CPU | 07:22 |
| luis_ | slightly OT- anyone know if /etc/lsb-release exists in a standard debian install? | 07:22 |
| siretart | mjg59: hey, thats a canonical laptop ;) | 07:23 |
| highvoltage | luis_: perhaps you should ask on #debian | 07:23 |
| mdz | luis_: I don't think any lsb packages are installed by default in Debian at present | 07:23 |
| luis_ | thanks, mdz | 07:24 |
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| mjg59 | siretart: Heh | 07:27 |
| mjg59 | siretart: But seriously, there's no good way of supporting power scaling on Celeron machines | 07:27 |
| siretart | mjg59: OK. I was just scared/confused by the error message from powernowd on bootup | 07:28 |
| siretart | and I couldn't imagine that intel/ibm would sell such crippled cpu's | 07:28 |
| jammcq | mdz: ok, i've got a root shell on the thin client. where is that ldm log file? | 07:28 |
| mdz | jammcq: /var/log/ldm.log | 07:29 |
| Lathiat | siretart: yeh its called celeron for a reason :) | 07:30 |
| jammcq | yeah, found it | 07:30 |
| Lathiat | i knew someone that used to say | 07:30 |
| Lathiat | sell-air-on | 07:30 |
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| mjg59 | siretart: Yeah, the message could possibly do with tidying | 07:30 |
| Lathiat | (i say sell-err-on) | 07:30 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: so whatever usplash is doing screws my console after resume (random cruft all over it | 07:31 |
| jammcq | http://pastebot.geeksinthehood.net:8888/123 | 07:31 |
| Lathiat | yet vesafb works fine after suspend, hrm :P | 07:31 |
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| jammcq | mdz: check that url for the ldm.log file | 07:31 |
| Lathiat | this is backwards to everyone else apparently :) | 07:31 |
| mdz | jammcq: sounds like the X server didn't start; check /var/log/Xorg.*.log | 07:32 |
| mjg59 | Lathiat: To what extent? | 07:32 |
| mjg59 | X doesn't come back at all? | 07:32 |
| Lathiat | no X works fine | 07:32 |
| Lathiat | my *console* just doesnt work, it has cruft all over it and it doesnt do anything | 07:33 |
| Lathiat | well it does things, random bits change all over the screen :) | 07:33 |
| Lathiat | interestingly it runs from top to bottom | 07:33 |
| mjg59 | Are you running the latest X? | 07:33 |
| jammcq | yeah, xorg.conf doesn't look complete | 07:33 |
| Lathiat | where as the console is only 640x480 in the middle of the screen | 07:33 |
| Lathiat | yep | 07:33 |
| mjg59 | Hm. Ok. | 07:33 |
| mjg59 | Interesting. | 07:33 |
| Lathiat | this is with a nvidia card | 07:34 |
| Lathiat | i am running the binary drivers, might be upsetting things | 07:34 |
| Lathiat | (likely) | 07:34 |
| mjg59 | Ah | 07:34 |
| Lathiat | i might try with nv | 07:34 |
| mjg59 | Can you try without? | 07:34 |
| Lathiat | ok bbs | 07:34 |
| mdz | jammcq: is it obviously corrupt? | 07:34 |
| jammcq | http://pastebot.geeksinthehood.net:8888/124 | 07:34 |
| jammcq | it's just incomplete | 07:34 |
| mdz | I worked around that bug in ltsp 0.46 | 07:34 |
| mdz | which I apparently forgot to upload | 07:35 |
| jammcq | heh | 07:35 |
| mdz | uploaded now | 07:35 |
| mdz | meanwhile, people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/ltsp/ | 07:35 |
| mdz | you just need the new ltsp-client in the chroot | 07:35 |
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| jammcq | so, in chroot, can I just 'dpkg -i ltsp-client_0.46_i386.deb' ? | 07:37 |
| mistik1 | mdz: op yourself and do the invite | 07:38 |
| mdz | jammcq: yes | 07:38 |
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| mistik1 | now if you goto the webpage you will see ubuntu-devel in the list ;-) | 07:39 |
| jammcq | mistik1: thanks buddy | 07:39 |
| mdz | ok | 07:39 |
| mistik1 | I also have no problem with you creating a redirect to the site from a ubuntu-linux.org addy | 07:40 |
| mistik1 | my pleasure | 07:40 |
| siretart | mjg59: are there any plans of adding tpb to main? I've seen a malone bugreport about trouble with the nvram module not loaded by hotplug/by default, and problems with permissions on /dev/nvram | 07:41 |
| mistik1 | jammcq: btw, I've been thinking about moving to the LISP pastebot which support anotations to the paste and such and such, what do you think of that? | 07:42 |
| jammcq | mistik1: sounds cool | 07:42 |
| jammcq | although we should carry on that conversation over at #ltsp | 07:42 |
| mistik1 | this way you could correct a paste that someone made instead of having to tell them what to do | 07:42 |
| mistik1 | ok, my appologies | 07:42 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: ah ok works with nv | 07:43 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: unfortunately i stil lhave that 2 line thing which makes my console useless | 07:43 |
| Lathiat | and someone needs to teach google about AC power and to stop indexing when on battery | 07:45 |
| Lathiat | err, beagle | 07:45 |
| mjg59 | Lathiat: Hrmph. Weird. | 07:46 |
| mjg59 | siretart: There's no secure way of adding it to main | 07:46 |
| mjg59 | Which sucks | 07:46 |
| mjg59 | I'll look at a cleaner implementation | 07:47 |
| Lathiat | cleaner impl of? | 07:47 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: so vesafb breaks suspend on most hardware? | 07:47 |
| siretart | mjg59: what about the nvram module? Is the typical ubuntu user expected to do a 'echo nvram | sudo tee -a /etc/modules' himself? what are the problems with that? | 07:47 |
| siretart | Lathiat: cleaner impl of tpb | 07:47 |
| Lathiat | siretart: ah | 07:48 |
| mjg59 | Lathiat: Yes | 07:48 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: do you have any idea how i can find a list of vesa modes for my specific hardware? | 07:48 |
| mjg59 | Uh. There shouldn't be specific vesa modes | 07:48 |
| Lathiat | well apparently you can get some for liek widescreen | 07:48 |
| Lathiat | that vary | 07:49 |
| mjg59 | The numbering is part of the standard | 07:49 |
| mjg59 | Oh, eww | 07:49 |
| Lathiat | (just what ive heard, i could be wrong) | 07:49 |
| mjg59 | That's not strictly vesa, then | 07:49 |
| Lathiat | so maybe not | 07:49 |
| Lathiat | where can i get a list of vesa modes? | 07:49 |
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| mjg59 | siretart: nvram probably ought to be autoloaded, but that won't help the tpb case | 07:49 |
| Lathiat | (higher than those in the kernel docs) | 07:49 |
| mjg59 | Lathiat: I think the VESA spec is open | 07:49 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: hrm is it ? | 07:50 |
| siretart | mjg59: shall I file a but about nvram? against which package then? hotplug? | 07:50 |
| === Lathiat looks | ||
| mjg59 | Lathiat: http://www.vesa.org/Public/VBE/vbe3.pdf | 07:50 |
| siretart | I know that this wont solve the tpb problem for itself. thats just a first step | 07:50 |
| mjg59 | siretart: Hmm. hotplug probably isn't the right choice - there's no way of it knowing | 07:51 |
| mjg59 | It probably ought to be in /etc/modules by default on x86 and amd64 | 07:51 |
| siretart | hm. I'll write a mail to ubuntu-devel, then | 07:52 |
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| Lathiat | mjg59: eeps why is usplash seeded in main already? | 08:05 |
| mjg59 | Lathiat: Because it's targetted at Breezy | 08:05 |
| Lathiat | heh ok | 08:06 |
| Lathiat | damn stupid hardware | 08:06 |
| mjg59 | Lathiat: It should be fine on any hardware that the installer was fine on | 08:07 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: installer isnt fine either :) | 08:07 |
| mjg59 | Well, indeed | 08:07 |
| Lathiat | im sure it worked at one point, way back, i should try the warty installer | 08:07 |
| mjg59 | So you disable vga16 during the install, and then usplash doesn't run either | 08:08 |
| mjg59 | So it doesn't break anyone | 08:08 |
| Lathiat | well usplash still boots if you take splash out | 08:08 |
| Lathiat | be good if you could fix that | 08:08 |
| mjg59 | Does it? Grah. | 08:08 |
| mjg59 | It's not meant to. | 08:08 |
| Lathiat | yeh someone else mentioned it earlier but i'll try it again if you want | 08:08 |
| mjg59 | The script looks ok | 08:09 |
| mjg59 | Hrm | 08:09 |
| Lathiat | theres also other random errors | 08:09 |
| Lathiat | like i get a chroot: command not foudn adn stuff at the end of the boot | 08:10 |
| Lathiat | know about that? | 08:10 |
| mjg59 | Yeah, there's some tidying up stuff needed in the initramfs stuff | 08:10 |
| mjg59 | I'm not sure why the chmod throws an error | 08:10 |
| Lathiat | no path i assume | 08:10 |
| mjg59 | chmod g+rw /dev/fb0 | 08:10 |
| Keybuk | heh @ ssh ... I appear to have just got a screenful of "Killed by signal 1." | 08:10 |
| mjg59 | Ought to be ok. Weird. | 08:10 |
| Lathiat | i assume theres no path and you want /bin/chmod ? | 08:11 |
| mjg59 | Doesn't it give "chmod: no such file or directory" rather than "sh: chmod - command not found"? | 08:12 |
| Lathiat | er | 08:12 |
| Lathiat | let me look | 08:12 |
| Lathiat | /scripts/init-premount/usplash: 44: chmod: not found | 08:13 |
| mjg59 | Ah. Hm. | 08:13 |
| mjg59 | Yeah, maybe it needs a path, then | 08:13 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: also my cpu speed has a habbit of getting stuck on 600mhz requiring you to stop, start, stop, start powernowd to get moving agian (i think its a kernel bug tho as doing stuff in /sys fails to) -- hard of that one? (pentium-m) | 08:17 |
| mjg59 | Hrm. Nope. | 08:17 |
| mjg59 | We'll probably switch away from powernowd, though | 08:17 |
| Lathiat | and i've even seen it, with powernowd stop, drop and get stuck on 600 | 08:18 |
| Lathiat | i think that was only once tho | 08:18 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: and use what? | 08:18 |
| tseng | Lathiat: i think that is more just powernowd sucking | 08:18 |
| tseng | but i see the same | 08:18 |
| mjg59 | Lathiat: ondemand | 08:18 |
| Lathiat | tseng: well i thought that, except that if i restart it | 08:18 |
| Lathiat | its still stuck | 08:18 |
| mjg59 | The kernel can do it on its own | 08:18 |
| Lathiat | i have to restart it a second time | 08:18 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: cool, that works better | 08:18 |
| Lathiat | and echoing something into /sys gives some weird error | 08:19 |
| Lathiat | but restarting powernowd twice seems to get it going again | 08:19 |
| jammcq | mdz: ldm seems to be stuck in a loop. I see X for a second, then the screen blanks, and about 5 seconds of pause, and then it does it again. Looking at the ldm python script, seems like either Xorg or the greeter is failing | 08:19 |
| Lathiat | tseng: and yeh, thats mighty annoying | 08:20 |
| tseng | that sounds like an x server or configuration problem | 08:20 |
| tseng | gdm tries to restart X every 5 seconds | 08:20 |
| jammcq | the Xserver seems ok, cuz I see the gray screen with X cursor, but then the screen goes away | 08:21 |
| jammcq | it's not GDM | 08:21 |
| jammcq | this is on a thin client, using ldm | 08:21 |
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| Lathiat | mjg59: heeres something interesting | 08:31 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: if i turn video expansion on, it works fine | 08:31 |
| mjg59 | Lathiat: Haha | 08:31 |
| Lathiat | same goes for the warty install | 08:31 |
| Lathiat | broken with it off, works with it on | 08:31 |
| mjg59 | Ok - that'll be vbetool posting it oddly | 08:31 |
| mjg59 | Oh, I see what you mean | 08:31 |
| mjg59 | Hm. Not a lot we can do there, I guess | 08:32 |
| Lathiat | (and by works i mean, vga16fb doesnt do the weird thing) | 08:32 |
| mjg59 | Except find someone who knows more about vga hardware | 08:32 |
| Lathiat | heh yeh | 08:32 |
| Lathiat | the isolinux boot screen seems to look right | 08:32 |
| Lathiat | altho it wasnt scrolling down | 08:32 |
| mjg59 | Windows seems to manage | 08:33 |
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| mdz | jammcq: anything in the log? | 08:34 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: yeh | 08:35 |
| Lathiat | bios screen too | 08:35 |
| jammcq | mdz: working on getting to the log | 08:37 |
| mjg59 | Lathiat: Is the bios screen graphical? | 08:38 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: yeh | 08:40 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: has a logo etc | 08:40 |
| Lathiat | big thunking dell in the middle :) | 08:41 |
| jammcq | mdz: ldm.log shows: Didn't get the right output from the greeter | 08:45 |
| mdz | jammcq: only that? | 08:46 |
| jammcq | yep | 08:46 |
| jammcq | I changed the 'while True' to 'if True' in ldm, to make it run only once | 08:46 |
| mdz | yeah, i need to do something about that error reporting | 08:47 |
| mdz | let me upgrade my chroot to current breezy and see if something obvious has broken | 08:47 |
| jammcq | k | 08:47 |
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| jammcq | are you just doing 'apt-get upgrade' ? | 08:47 |
| mdz | jammcq: you might try running the greeter by hand with an appropriate DISPLAY | 08:47 |
| jammcq | but I don't have an Xserver running | 08:47 |
| mdz | surely you have one somewhere on your network ;-) | 08:48 |
| jammcq | ah | 08:48 |
| jammcq | true enough | 08:48 |
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| mdz | I'm doing chroot/apt-get dist-upgrade | 08:49 |
| jammcq | k | 08:49 |
| jammcq | mdz: ImportError: No module named cairo | 08:49 |
| mdz | hmm, I wonder whose bug that is | 08:50 |
| mdz | I think probably python-gtk or python-glade | 08:51 |
| mdz | jammcq: can you paste the full backtrace? | 08:51 |
| jammcq | sure | 08:51 |
| mdz | jammcq: meanwhile, installing python-cairo should get it past that | 08:51 |
| mdz | I need to do something about the error reporting in ldm; it ought to do something useful with the console | 08:52 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: hrm, you should hastle daniels to get glxinfo in breezy | 08:52 |
| mjg59 | Lathiat: Haha | 08:53 |
| no_paste | "jammcq" pasted "gtk greeter traceback" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.geeksinthehood.net:8888/130 | 08:53 |
| mjg59 | Lathiat: I'm running out of daniels favours :) | 08:53 |
| jammcq | there ya go | 08:53 |
| Lathiat | glxgears would also be a usefull quick test | 08:53 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: heh | 08:53 |
| mdz | jammcq: python-gtk bug, thanks | 08:54 |
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| jammcq | mdz: all part of the shake out I guess :) | 08:55 |
| mdz | this would have broken quite recently | 08:55 |
| mdz | wednesday | 08:55 |
| mdz | things should start being less broken in feature freeze | 08:56 |
| === mjg59 finally gets round to trying to track down ACPI breakage on the Thiknpad 240X | ||
| mdz | 240X? sounds old | 08:57 |
| mjg59 | It is | 08:57 |
| mjg59 | But it's lovely | 08:57 |
| mjg59 | Only problem is some weird yenta bug. It's probably biting other people too. | 08:58 |
| mdz | jammcq: I'm keen to see what the performance is like with your thin client and ssh | 08:59 |
| mdz | I was surprised at how fast it was for me, but my laptop is fairly beefy by thin client standards | 08:59 |
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| Keybuk | mdz: would you have any objection to syncing devscripts 2.9.4 from Debian? | 09:01 |
| mdz | Keybuk: depends on what's changed | 09:01 |
| Keybuk | added support for "bts block" and "bts unblock" | 09:01 |
| mdz | that's all? | 09:02 |
| Keybuk | a couple of bug fixes: | 09:02 |
| Keybuk | [ Julian Gilbey ] | 09:02 |
| Keybuk | * bts: fix forwarded command (Closes: #320703) | 09:02 |
| Keybuk | * debchange: un-html-ise bug titles when using --closes | 09:02 |
| Keybuk | 09:02 | |
| Keybuk | [ Joey Hess ] | 09:02 |
| Keybuk | * bts: Support new block and unblock commands. | 09:02 |
| mdz | no objections | 09:02 |
| Keybuk | k, I'll ask elmo | 09:02 |
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| mdz | Keybuk: you're back home now? | 09:11 |
| Keybuk | yup | 09:12 |
| Lathiat | mjg59: ehci, uhci, usb 1.1/2, which is which? | 09:13 |
| mjg59 | ehci - usb2 | 09:13 |
| mjg59 | uhci and ohci are usb1 | 09:13 |
| \sh | ohci is compaq style usb1 isn't it? | 09:14 |
| mjg59 | Yes | 09:14 |
| mjg59 | Also seen in Apples and most add-on ehci cards | 09:14 |
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| \sh | hmm...lets wrap up my first stuff for laptop testing | 09:16 |
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| Diablo-D3 | hey all | 09:49 |
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| Diablo-D3 | is it me, or is it hard to find a list of what patches are applied to ubuntu's kernel? | 09:49 |
| Seveas | Diablo-D3, linux-patch-ubuntu-2.6.10 - Ubuntu patches to Linux 2.6.10 | 09:53 |
| Lathiat | it is a tad hard, if you apt-get source linux-image-`uname -r` all the patches are in debian/patches | 09:53 |
| Seveas | (please note that #ubuntu-devel is not a support channel, #ubuntu is for support) | 09:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | Seveas: not asking for support ;) | 09:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | I actually came here to start a discussion on pre-empt and low latency. | 09:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | but I wanted to see if the ubuntu kernel already had those first | 09:55 |
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| Diablo-D3 | does anyone actually know if it does, btw? | 09:55 |
| Seveas | Diablo-D3, grep -i preempt /boot/config-* | 09:55 |
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| Seveas | CONFIG_PREEMPT=y | 09:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | /boot/config-2.6.10-5-k7:CONFIG_PREEMPT=y | 09:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | /boot/config-2.6.12-6-k7:# CONFIG_PREEMPT is not set | 09:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | so... preempt has been turned off? | 09:56 |
| Seveas | no | 09:56 |
| Seveas | it's =y | 09:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | read 2.6.12 | 09:56 |
| mdke | looks like it's off | 09:57 |
| Seveas | ah | 09:57 |
| === Seveas missed it | ||
| mdke | Diablo-D3, there is a #ubuntu-kernel chan if it helps at all | 09:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | mdke: hah cool | 09:57 |
| Keybuk | elmo: thanks (re: devscripts) | 09:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | its right to treat ubuntu as a desktop distro, right? | 09:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | it seems very odd not to have preempt and low latency in a desktop kernel | 09:58 |
| Seveas | it's right to treat is as a distro suitable for the desktop, but not *just* as desktop distro | 09:59 |
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| Diablo-D3 | Seveas: yeah, but if they wanted a server distro, wouldnt they just run debian? | 09:59 |
| mdke | argh | 09:59 |
| mdke | this is not really the place for such discussions Diablo-D3 | 10:00 |
| Seveas | indeed | 10:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | there doesnt seem to be a place for such discussions, mdke | 10:00 |
| Seveas | come to #ubuntu or #ubuntu-off-topic for that | 10:00 |
| Seveas | #ubuntu-offtopic that is | 10:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | #ubuntu doesnt work because its full of morons who chatter too much | 10:00 |
| Seveas | right, morons huh | 10:00 |
| Seveas | good luck getting help/discussion then | 10:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | Seveas: lets face it, there are too many people asking help in there | 10:01 |
| mjg59 | Diablo-D3: People asking for help in a user support channel? Goodness. | 10:01 |
| Seveas | Diablo-D3, come to #ubuntu-offtopic for this discussion. Not in here. | 10:02 |
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| Burgundavia | mjg59, ping | 11:08 |
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| mjg59 | Burgundavia: Hi | 11:11 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ToshibaTecraA5 <-- first draft of a standard form. This is for my laptop. I will add/change to make it copy&paste operation | 11:12 |
| mjg59 | Burgundavia: Ok, excellent | 11:12 |
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| ajmitch_ | how much more info will you want? | 11:14 |
| ajmitch_ | as much useful/relevant info as we can provide? | 11:14 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, if I forgot something, it is an accident, not intentional | 11:14 |
| mjg59 | Burgundavia: Looks good so far | 11:14 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, matthew east (mdke) is concerned about forcing peole to use one form | 11:14 |
| === mdke nods | ||
| mjg59 | It's going to become difficult to consolidate otherwise | 11:14 |
| mdke | as a personal thing i don't like those tables | 11:15 |
| mjg59 | The aim of this is to provide information to users | 11:15 |
| mdke | perhaps the whole thing should be consolidated from the start | 11:15 |
| mjg59 | Unless that information is presented in a consistent way, it's not very helpful | 11:15 |
| Burgundavia | I think I can fix the table widths | 11:15 |
| Burgundavia | or make it all one big table | 11:16 |
| mdke | LaptopTestingHardware is already there, that could be used | 11:16 |
| mjg59 | mdke: I'm not that keen on it - the information isn't really fine-grained enough | 11:16 |
| mdke | and testers could be encouraged to flesh things out in their own reports | 11:16 |
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| mjg59 | And there's a lot of missing information | 11:17 |
| mdke | mjg59, well small changes could be made to that table, but to be honest, if you want a consolidated record, it's going to be very difficult to have a lot of detail | 11:17 |
| mdke | there is a limit to how wide a table can be ;) | 11:17 |
| mdke | I like the LaptopTestingSpec as a guide | 11:17 |
| ajmitch_ | mdke: it's a good start, but I think more info can be better | 11:18 |
| ajmitch_ | but it depends on whether the info will be used for developers, or primarily users | 11:18 |
| mdke | here is what I have done, for comparison https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ThinkpadT43. mjg59 obviously if the decision is taken to change the Spec, that's no problem for me | 11:18 |
| mjg59 | mdke: By consolitdated I don't mean all visible at once - I mean a comparitive overview and a consistent way of finding out the details | 11:18 |
| mdke | ah | 11:18 |
| r0bby | is there a list of breezy bugs i can take a look at? | 11:18 |
| Burgundavia | if it is for developers, it needs to be a fast read | 11:18 |
| r0bby | :P | 11:18 |
| mdke | Burgundavia, bugzilla is for developers, what you guys are talking about is for users | 11:19 |
| r0bby | (not seeking support | 11:19 |
| r0bby | :P | 11:19 |
| mjg59 | Users don't want to see "This works if you do this". They want to see "this works", and it's our job to make sure that it does | 11:19 |
| mdke | agreed | 11:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont know the context, but I agree with mjg | 11:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | linux has too much "works if you do this" | 11:20 |
| mdke | mjg59, of course testers need to file a bug whenever something doesn't "just work" | 11:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | it needs more "plain simple works" | 11:20 |
| mjg59 | mdke: Absolutely | 11:20 |
| ajmitch_ | right, I thought the main context of the reports we filed was for developers | 11:20 |
| mdke | btw tpb doesn't get installed out of the box | 11:20 |
| mjg59 | ajmitch_: Ah, sorry. It's both | 11:20 |
| mdke | >_< | 11:20 |
| mjg59 | tpb can't be made to work out of the box | 11:20 |
| mjg59 | Not without rewriting it | 11:20 |
| mjg59 | It's a screaming security nightmare | 11:20 |
| ajmitch_ | hopefully the one I get to test will arrive in the next week or two :) | 11:21 |
| mdke | mjg59, users don't want to hear that :p | 11:21 |
| mjg59 | mdke: Yeah. Instead we tell them "this doesn't work" until it does | 11:21 |
| === mdke nods | ||
| ajmitch_ | mjg59: if I get a thinkpad, I'll look at working on it :) | 11:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | what is tpb? | 11:21 |
| mdke | anyhow those tables are hard to read | 11:21 |
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| mdke | IMHO | 11:21 |
| mjg59 | Diablo-D3: Thinkpad buttons daemon | 11:21 |
| opi | hi guys | 11:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | ahh | 11:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah, I can imagine | 11:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | laptop goodies are Evil (tm) | 11:22 |
| Burgundavia | mdke, ajmitch_ mjg59 ok, tried one big table | 11:22 |
| mjg59 | ajmitch_: Heh. I know what you're getting - I can tell you if you want | 11:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | I wish there was a generic framework to make everything Just Work (tm) | 11:23 |
| mjg59 | Diablo-D3: In the long run, hal may help there | 11:23 |
| ajmitch_ | mjg59: that'd be good | 11:23 |
| mdke | Burgundavia, big improvement | 11:23 |
| tseng | ajmitch_: no spoilers! | 11:23 |
| ajmitch_ | tseng: well claire tells us before they're sent, apparantly :) | 11:23 |
| mjg59 | ajmitch_: Ought to be a Dell 510m | 11:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | mjg59: thats what people I know are hoping for | 11:23 |
| mdke | Burgundavia, i still personally prefer <h>s and <li>s tho | 11:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | mjg59: but theres lots of other stuff that doesnt just work | 11:23 |
| tseng | ajmitch_: oh. i need to find a fax machine, claire couldnt verify my clearsign for some reason | 11:23 |
| opi | tseng: don't tell me :) | 11:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | mjg59: like, non-usbmsd cameras (and such) dont Just Work (tm) | 11:25 |
| ajmitch_ | tseng: right, I scanned & gpg-signed | 11:25 |
| opi | tseng: I don't even know how to operate one ;) | 11:25 |
| ajmitch_ | mjg59: thanks | 11:25 |
| tseng | opi: /me barely | 11:25 |
| opi | ajmitch_: and it worked? | 11:25 |
| mjg59 | Diablo-D3: Stuff that plugs into the serial port is immense pain | 11:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | mjg59: I meant the usb ones that arent msd | 11:25 |
| Burgundavia | tseng, opi that is why the local office supply place is great. You say fax and here is the number | 11:25 |
| opi | tseng: well, there's allways time to learn new tricks ;> | 11:25 |
| mjg59 | Hrm. USB cameras ought to work. | 11:25 |
| opi | Burgundavia: that's my plan ;) | 11:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | usb cameras that are MSD do work | 11:25 |
| mjg59 | libgphoto is supposed to deal automatically | 11:25 |
| mdke | mjg59, did you see #13390 btw? looks like most of the thinkpad people have had it | 11:25 |
| mjg59 | mdke: Yeah, I had that when I got mine a few years ago | 11:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | mjg59: gphoto integration works now? | 11:25 |
| mjg59 | mdke: I think I may know a couple of ways around it | 11:25 |
| mjg59 | Diablo-D3: It's supposed to, but I have no hardware to test it with | 11:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | mjg59: ubuntu may be the first distro ever to have it working =/ | 11:25 |
| mdke | mjg59, that would be cool, its a fair blocker | 11:25 |
| opi | btw: If I've submitted a bug to Malone | 11:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | the current redhat and mandrake and whatever else is popular releases completely fail here | 11:25 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, if you want to edit my page, go ahead | 11:26 |
| mdke | mjg59, thank god I made rescue disks. I'm already on my second restore to factory settings | 11:26 |
| opi | is is someone from MOTU noticed if the package has no MOTU-owner? | 11:26 |
| ajmitch_ | opi: for bugs? | 11:26 |
| tseng | motu doesnt own every package | 11:26 |
| opi | ajmitch_: yes | 11:26 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, once we are happy with the design, I will copy over to generic page and announce it | 11:26 |
| opi | tseng: I know, that's why I'm asking | 11:26 |
| ajmitch_ | opi: no, they have to be assigned to MOTU for us to notice, or we watch #ubuntu-bugs | 11:26 |
| tseng | oh, i see what you mean | 11:26 |
| opi | tseng: what if a package is just imported | 11:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | (and yes, comparing to redhat and mandrake and whatever is important, if they get something right and Ubuntu doesnt, thats a bad thing) | 11:26 |
| tseng | Burgundavia likes to assign those ones to the spam bin | 11:26 |
| mjg59 | Burgundavia: Excellent | 11:26 |
| tseng | send to all motu | 11:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | of course, ubuntu gets so many things right <3 | 11:26 |
| === ajmitch_ will bbl, work meeting | ||
| mjg59 | There should be a laptop-testing list next week | 11:27 |
| mdke | mjg59, you think the tables work for readability? I still don't like em | 11:27 |
| opi | ajmitch_: OK then, I'll try to fix it myself and I'll put it up to review | 11:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | mjg59: how do I join the laptop-testing team? | 11:27 |
| mjg59 | Diablo-D3: I'll post stuff once the list exists | 11:27 |
| mdke | Diablo-D3, visit the wiki page | 11:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | mjg59: I have a popular laptop, a presario 7xx series laptop | 11:27 |
| mjg59 | mdke: I think they work for developer-level readability | 11:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | amd duron, via chip, twisterk video chip | 11:27 |
| mdke | mjg59, if the testers are filing bugs, IMHO the wiki page is mainly for users | 11:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | quite a lot of these were manufactured, and they're quite unsupported at times =/ | 11:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | like, I /still/ cant get the backlight to turn off, and I've been trying for a year now to do that | 11:28 |
| opi | my Tecra8000 works almost flawless :) | 11:28 |
| mjg59 | mdke: The information from those pages will be grabbe and reformatted for end-users | 11:28 |
| opi | you only need to kick ISA-sound a bit | 11:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | and it supposibly has a thermal chip, but its only supported by Compaq's own drivers | 11:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | and its not connected through the via686a chip, and the lm-sensors project has basically refused to support it | 11:29 |
| mdke | mjg59, ok whatever you guys decide is fine, as long as a final spec is produced and we don't have to keep reformatting our reports | 11:29 |
| opi | Diablo-D3: pita | 11:29 |
| mjg59 | mdke: What does fdisk claim the partition type of your recovery partition is? | 11:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | opi: very. | 11:29 |
| mjg59 | mdke: Ok, no problem | 11:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | I normally wouldnt care, but this laptop series has severe overheating issues | 11:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | and I mean /severe/ | 11:30 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, how do we want to handle multiple people with the same laptop? should they just edit the same page? | 11:30 |
| mdke | mjg59, if you post on the bug report how I can find out, I'll do it next time I reinstall Ubuntu (i've just restored to factory settings) | 11:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only way Ive found to fix it is to just have it run at the lowest dynamic cpu speed | 11:30 |
| mjg59 | mdke: Ok, thanks | 11:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | (cpufreq for the win) | 11:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | man, we need a #ubuntu-laptops | 11:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | or something | 11:30 |
| opi | #laptops'r'us | 11:31 |
| mdke | --> bed | 11:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | laptops are such pains in the ass | 11:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | why cant someone just make a totally standards compliant laptop | 11:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | one that works out of the box with a number of popular distros | 11:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | like, you know what I hate? having to manually install and setup the synaptic driver for the touchpad | 11:32 |
| opi | Diablo-D3: too expensive to play with all the parts | 11:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | opi: yeah, but why the hell did compaq /make their own thermal chip/ | 11:33 |
| opi | no idea | 11:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | instead of using some popular chip that plugs into the via686a chipset | 11:33 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, what do you think about making it one big table for both releases? | 11:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know, /like everyone else did/ | 11:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'd strangle Compaq, but someone beat me to it. | 11:33 |
| opi | I'm lucky with Toshiba, with apcitool (I've packaged that: badly;-) I can even turn fan on/off and hibernate it ;) | 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | heh | 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | the fan is automatic on mine | 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | it ramps up the hotter the laptop gets | 11:34 |
| opi | I think that people who did a electronic for this laptop, are/was brianless | 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats another thing, btw | 11:34 |
| opi | imagine: fan starts at (let say) 40c | 11:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | lm-sensors is not automatically setup on any distro | 11:36 |
| grover | the mfgrs need to be held accountable for bad thermal designs | 11:36 |
| opi | fan kicks in, temp is going down to 39c | 11:36 |
| opi | fan stops | 11:36 |
| opi | it takes ~15 secunds to get to the 40c level again | 11:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | grover: no shit, I've heard stories where presario 700 series laptops literally melted | 11:36 |
| opi | fan starts | 11:36 |
| Burgundavia | opi, Diablo-D3 this discussion is probably best taken elsewhere | 11:36 |
| opi | Burgundavia: right | 11:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | Burgundavia: I said that earlier | 11:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | Burgundavia: we need an #ubuntu-laptop | 11:36 |
| opi | Diablo-D3: I'm there ;) | 11:36 |
| mxpxpod | Diablo-D3 and opi: same here | 11:36 |
| mjg59 | mdke: Ok, I've updated the bug | 11:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | yay | 11:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | #ubuntu-laptop is open for buisness | 11:38 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, please take at look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ToshibaTecraA5 again | 11:39 |
| mjg59 | Burgundavia: Ok, that works nicely for me | 11:40 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, mdke suggested it | 11:40 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, for the function keys/special keys, do you want a keycode as well? | 11:43 |
| mjg59 | Burgundavia: If they generate one. Note that Breezy has much more support by default. | 11:44 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, ok | 11:45 |
| mpt | oh, snap | 11:50 |
| === mpt was just editing the laptop pages | ||
| Burgundavia | mpt, go ahead | 11:51 |
| mpt | Is there a doc somewhere on how to install under a chroot? | 11:52 |
| mpt | (is that even a useful testable configuration?) | 11:53 |
| === mpt doesn't even know what a chroot is | ||
| mpt | Burgundavia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTesting updated | 11:53 |
| Burgundavia | thanks | 11:54 |
| mpt | Now making the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingHardware table narrower | 11:54 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, what do we want to do with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingHardware | 11:56 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, it is really that useful? | 11:56 |
| mjg59 | Burgundavia: Leave it for now, I'll worry about it later | 11:56 |
| Burgundavia | mjg59, ok | 11:56 |
| mpt | ah, good point | 11:56 |
| mpt | Why are there many more rows in LaptopTestingHardware than there are subpages of LaptopTestingTeam? | 11:57 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, shrink the table down | 11:57 |
| Burgundavia | mpt, Hardware is old | 11:57 |
| Burgundavia | the subpages are new and what we are going to be using in the future | 11:57 |
| mpt | oh | 11:58 |
| mpt | So should LaptopTestingHardware be nuked? | 11:58 |
| mpt | (I didn't like that name anyway...) | 11:58 |
| Burgundavia | no | 11:58 |
| Burgundavia | just mention at the top that it is deprecated | 11:58 |
| mpt | That Lakin guy just added himself to LaptopTestingHardware | 11:59 |
| mpt | Lakin Wecker | 11:59 |
| Burgundavia | yes | 11:59 |
| Burgundavia | not a problem | 12:00 |
| === mistik1 [I=rasta@ool-44c02704.dyn.optonline.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| === mpt hits the big red Cancel button | ||
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