[01:17] <Burgundavia> xhaker, please turn off your away mesage. It is quite annoying
[01:24] <dabaR> Can I have operator status for #ubuntu-hr?
[01:24] <jdub> Burgundavia: hrm, maybe we should come up with some better standards for how to document the laptops and so on
[01:24] <jdub> Burgundavia: i'm sure mjg59 would have some ideas on what would be most helpful to him
[01:25] <Burgundavia> jdub, there are two parts that I see. the hoary stuff is mostly for community members and thus needs to be organized well
[01:25] <jdub> dabaR: you'll have to ask chanserv about who owns it
[01:25] <jdub> hoary stuff?
[01:25] <Burgundavia> the breezy stuff is for developers, so that bugs should mostly be in bugzilla
[01:25] <Riddell> ivoks owns #ubuntu-hr
[01:25] <Burgundavia> jdub, mdke and I had a disagrement about how to report
[01:26] <Burgundavia> jdub, is it enough to have a report for any stable release and a rolling report for the latest development?
[01:26] <jdub> i don't think the current release is all that relevant
[01:26] <jdub> the goal is to make sure we know the hardware, and know what the devel branch supports
[01:26] <Burgundavia> the current stable is useful for people looking to purchase a laptop
[01:26] <dabaR> jdub: thanks.
[01:27] <jdub> ok, i don't think that has much to do with the laptop testing team
[01:27] <dabaR> Riddell: ya, he does, well, cool.
[01:27] <jdub> we can document that stuff on a hardware support page somewhere
[01:27] <Burgundavia> no, but we might as well get the marketing win on it
[01:27] <jdub> Riddell: hey, have you seen fcrozat's XSETTINGS patches for KDE?
[01:27] <jdub> Burgundavia: right, but that's a different issue
[01:28] <Burgundavia> they did ask for a report on how the the current stable installs
[01:28] <Riddell> jdub: I don't think so
[01:28] <jdub> Burgundavia: sure, that's important to understanding where we're at from a benchmark release
[01:29] <jdub> Riddell: might be handy for nicer results when running apps in either environment
[01:29] <jdub> Riddell: fcrozat is an mdk developer, the patches might be in their cooker RPMs, but you can find him on gimpnet fairly regularly
[01:32] <Riddell> jdub: looks like a fun idea that, I'll make a note to investigate
[01:33] <Burgundavia> mjg59, ping
[01:33] <Riddell> jdub: what was the KDE stall at linuxworld like?
[01:33] <jdub> Riddell: they had a nice banner
[01:34] <tseng> i bet it was blue
[01:34] <jdub> Riddell: and at one point, they were getting people to shout out how much they loved kde for a xandros CD
[01:34] <jdub> for a *xandros* CD
[01:34] <jdub> insane ;-)
[01:34] <whiprush> hahah
[01:34] <whiprush> I wonder how many people threw it back
[01:36] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Hi
[01:36] <Burgundavia> mjg59, jdub and I were talking about standardizing the reports on the wiki
[01:36] <Riddell> they really should have asked for kubuntu CDs in time, those things are worth shouting for
[01:36] <Burgundavia> mjg59, what is most useful for you?
[01:36] <mjg59> Burgundavia: I'm planning on writing a form for data submission, but..
[01:36] <mjg59> Basically I want to know whether stuff on the laptop checklist works by default or not
[01:37] <mjg59> If it doesn't, I want to know how it doesn't work and if it can be made to work
[01:37] <Burgundavia> mjg59, is there any reason why we don't just do this on the wiki?
[01:37] <mjg59> If it works, I want to know nothing more
[01:37] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Is it trivial to create ways to input data on the wiki that will result in a standardised format?
[01:37] <Burgundavia> yes
[01:38] <Burgundavia> I will create a standard table that they could copy and then fill out
[01:38] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Ah. In that case, then do it via the wiki :)
[01:38] <mjg59> (I should point out that I've just got back from Kamion's wedding, and so am nowhere near sober. This seems to be a recurring theme)
[01:38] <Burgundavia> mjg59, the advantage of the wiki is that anyone can see the data. A form they submit to you might get lost
[01:39] <Burgundavia> mjg59, both Matthew East and myself have gotten emails about how to make certain things on our laptops to work
[01:39] <mjg59> Ok, cool
[01:40] <jdub> how was the wedding?
[01:40] <mjg59> jdub: Excellent
[01:40] <mjg59> (hic)
[01:40] <jdub> :-)
[01:40] <Burgundavia> I will build up a skeleton table and then ask for your comments
[01:41] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Excellent, tanks!
[01:42] <Burgundavia> mjg59, should be ready by monday
[01:42] <Burgundavia> mjg59, quick question, do you care bout every point release in the development or only a rolling report?
[01:42] <Burgundavia> mjg59, I mean, do I need to keep all the colony reports around?
[01:44] <mjg59> Only a rolling report unless it's necessary to check whether something's reverted
[01:44] <Burgundavia> ok
[01:45] <Burgundavia> mjg59, I am off, pm me if you have any further comments/issues/ideas
[01:45] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Will do. Thanks for the help!
[01:52] <Diablo-D3> hows breezy coming?
[01:58] <Diablo-D3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals
[01:58] <Diablo-D3> didnt that url use to be valid?
[01:59] <whiprush> remove the UbuntuDownUnder part
[01:59] <whiprush> it's just /BreezyGoals now
[02:00] <Diablo-D3> is breezy still really really unstable, btw?
[02:00] <whiprush> depends I guess.
[02:01] <Diablo-D3> depends on what, exactly?
[02:02] <whiprush> Don't know, I don't track sid.
[02:02] <whiprush> I don't have problems with it.
[02:02] <Diablo-D3> you use any c++ apps?
[02:02] <whiprush> firefox and tbird
[02:03] <Diablo-D3> and they work fine?
[02:03] <whiprush> yep
[02:03] <Diablo-D3> any kde apps?
[02:03] <whiprush> no
[02:05] <Riddell> kde apps work fine
[02:05] <Riddell> it's X that doesn't work
[02:05] <Diablo-D3> ...... erk?
[02:05] <Diablo-D3> doesnt work in what way?
[02:06] <Riddell> doesn't work in new and exciting ways each day
[02:06] <Diablo-D3> eww
[02:12] <Diablo-D3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/%c2%b5buntu
[02:12] <Diablo-D3> that looks cool
[02:13] <Diablo-D3> Riddell: 2.6.12 is in breezy isnt it?
[02:14] <Riddell> linux-image-2.6.12-6
[02:14] <Diablo-D3> broken X... new kernel....
[02:14] <jdub> X is easy to get working
[02:14] <Diablo-D3> cant see.... but its really shiney...
[02:15] <Diablo-D3> jdub: just tell dpkg to hold X for me? ;)
[02:15] <jdub> no
[02:15] <Diablo-D3> rewind to the previously known working version?
[02:16] <tseng> or read ubuntu-devel
[02:16] <tseng> and follow a few simple steps
[02:18] <Diablo-D3> hrm, how do I check what version of something is in linux-restricted-modules?
[02:28] <bur[n] er> jdub: about X being easy to get working... got a wiki page or some kind of reference?
[02:33] <jdub> bur[n] er: have a look at recent threads on ubuntu-devel
[02:35] <bur[n] er> right on, will do
[02:39] <bur[n] er> thanks jdub 
[02:41] <mdz> Riddell: do we really only want krita in main, and not the rest of the koffice binaries?
[02:41] <mdz> Riddell: (is there any reason not to move them all together?)
[02:42] <mjg59> mdz: Is there anything I should be worrying about right at the moment?
[02:43] <jdub> mjg59: balance, slurred speech, etc.
[02:43] <mdz> mjg59: hunger, poverty, poor medical care...
[02:43] <Riddell> mdz: I want krita on the CD because image manipulation is a missing feature from kubuntu, I'd be happy to have the rest in support, not sure what else it brings in
[02:44] <jammcq> mdz: howdie
[02:44] <mdz> Riddell: could you review the dependencies and see?  if there aren't any new deps, we should just put them all in supported
[02:44] <mdz> jammcq: good evening
[02:44] <mdz> jammcq: congratulations on the LTSP award
[02:44] <jdub> Riddell: keep in mind that gimp is one of the first things we'd remove if space becomes more of an issue on the CD
[02:44] <jammcq> mdz: i've got a new machine, and i'm loading breezy now, to test out ltsp integration
[02:44] <mjg59> Ah, good, nothing of any great concern
[02:44] <Diablo-D3> you hate gimp that much?
[02:44] <jammcq> and thanks, we were all surprised with that award
[02:45] <jdub> Diablo-D3: no, it's just not important for the vast majority of users. it's cool, but it doesn't apply to the GCF.
[02:45] <jammcq> mdz: also, sbalneav is doing the same this evening
[02:45] <mdz> mjg59: feedback starting to flow in from LaptopTesting?
[02:45] <Riddell> jdub: GCF?
[02:45] <mdz> jammcq: glad to hear it
[02:45] <jdub> greatest common factor
[02:45] <Riddell> mdz: will do
[02:45] <mdz> jammcq: let me know if you have any questions not answered by the wiki
[02:46] <jammcq> k
[02:46] <jammcq> we should have some thin clients booting tonight
[02:46] <jdub> jammcq: i'm seriously considering ordering one of your little thin client boxes - they were way sweet
[02:46] <mdz> I'll be going out in 1.5 hours or so, and not back until quite late
[02:46] <Diablo-D3> grr
[02:46] <mdz> and at that point perhaps a little drunk
[02:47] <Diablo-D3> how the hell do I find out what version of madwifi is in a package of linux-restricted-modules
[02:47] <mjg59> mdz: A bit, yeah
[02:47] <jammcq> jdub: damn, I should have let you buy one that we had in sanfran, it would save you the shipping
[02:47] <mjg59> mdz: The amd64 one is indescribable pain
[02:47] <jdub> jammcq: 'sok, i should probably do something with the hardware i already have first, lest pia beat me up :-)
[02:47] <jammcq> heh
[02:48] <bur[n] er> awww... X is still b0rked for me :\  maybe next week ;)
[02:48] <mjg59> jdub: Spend it on beer. Or me.
[02:48] <paolo> jdub: SoC-er?
[02:48] <mjg59> paolo: Nah, jdub is an open source luminary
[02:48] <paolo> Oh.
[02:48] <Diablo-D3> jdub: google...award... money?
[02:49] <mjg59> jdub is teh best open source love magnet 
[02:49] <mdz> mjg59: do you have the lsb-base changes ready for when jbailey fixes the fifo thing?
[02:49] <mjg59> mdz: It's about 5 lines, but yeah
[02:49] <Diablo-D3> I wonder if ubuntu has a changelog
[02:50] <jdub> bur[n] er: it's not too hard to fix
[02:50] <jdub> Diablo-D3: every package has a change log under /usr/share/doc/<package>/
[02:50] <mdz> it's more like 10
[02:50] <Diablo-D3> I meant for 'big' features that arent related to any one package
[02:50] <Diablo-D3> http://lwn.net/Articles/142671/
[02:50] <jdub> paolo: nup, i got an award at oscon for being noisy :-)
[02:50] <Diablo-D3> like that
[02:50] <mdz> we call those "release notes"
[02:51] <mjg59> mdz: 5, 10. It's less than an order of magnitude.
[02:51] <mdz> mjg59: I was musing over init scripts called by maintainer scripts post-boot
[02:51] <bur[n] er> jdub: i did the apt-get install xkbutils thing and step 2 of --force-confmiss on the xkeyboard thing... but no dice... i still get a blue ncurses based screen saying X encountered an error and I can do nothing but hard reboot back to 'recovery mode'
[02:51] <mjg59> Don't trouble me with your powers of 2.
[02:51] <jdub> paolo: http://osdir.com/Article6677.phtml
[02:51] <mjg59> mdz: Once usplash isn't running, usplash_write will exit silently
[02:51] <jdub> bur[n] er: check the log, then - i bet you just need to run a dpkg-reconfigure to get the right font paths
[02:51] <mjg59> I /do/ need to code usplash_read (for encrypted filesystems)
[02:51] <mdz> mjg59: right, meaning that init scripts which currently print a message become silent
[02:52] <mjg59> mdz: Mm? My plan was to do both
[02:52] <mdz> oh, I see
[02:52] <mdz> that's a fine idea
[02:52] <mjg59> Then people can switch back to tty1 and see all the messages
[02:52] <jdub> mjg59: will usplash be able to print characters on non-white? (is that box just a guide in current artwork?)
[02:52] <mjg59> jdub: It can do, yeah
[02:52] <jdub> cool
[02:52] <bur[n] er> jdub: i hate to be a bother, but reconfigure what package??
[02:52] <mjg59> I can't emphassise this enough
[02:53] <mdz> mjg59: the box is actually a functional place where text can scroll
[02:53] <mjg59> *the artwork is shit because I cannot draw*
[02:53] <jdub> bur[n] er: xserver-xorg
[02:53] <mjg59> mdz: Yes, but it's trivial to change this
[02:53] <mdz> er
[02:53] <mdz> s/mjg59/jdub/
[02:53] <mjg59> The box is drawn by the code
[02:53] <bur[n] er> thanks jdub, i'll give it a shot
[02:53] <mjg59> It can draw a black box instead
[02:53] <mdz> jdub: you can play with usplash_write to see how it looks
[02:53] <jdub> mdz: do we *want* scrolling text on usplash sexiness?
[02:54] <mjg59> jdub: There is scrolling text
[02:54] <mdz> jdub: if it's going to stay up all the way through to gdm, it should probably give some idea of what's going on, yes
[02:54] <mjg59> Well, scolling in the same way as the console
[02:54] <paolo> jdub: cool - congrats :-)
[02:54] <jdub> paolo: :)
[02:54] <paolo> I'm a SoC, in fact :-P
[02:54] <paolo> SoC-er even.
[02:54] <jdub> mdz: i think i'd prefer something closer to the rhgb service title status
[02:55] <mdz> jdub: how is that different from what we have?
[02:55] <mjg59> jdub: It's more SuSE bootsplash than rhgb
[02:55] <jdub> well, keep in mind that i haven't seen what it looks like post-initramfs
[02:55] <mdz> it looks the same only with status messages / progress bar
[02:55] <mjg59> We show the same text as would appear on the console, but in a more attractive manner
[02:56] <mjg59> Switching it to something more abstract is rather more effort
[02:56] <jdub> mjg59: one line at a time, or with scrolling lines?
[02:56] <mjg59> jdub: Scrolling - otherwise stuff can vanish before you read it
[02:57] <mdz> speaking of which, am I the only one for whom the GNOME splash text has missing characters in it?
[02:57] <jdub> if they want scrolling status, they can switch back to tty1
[02:57] <mjg59> jdub: The current state is that a few lines of text are scrolled in the box
[02:58] <jdub> should i be seeing usplash post-initramfs?
[02:58] <mjg59> Not yet
[02:58] <j^> why not just "Starting Services..."
[02:58] <mjg59> Needs a touch more initramfs love
[02:59] <jdub> rhgb just shows the service name currently starting
[02:59] <j^> even thats too much imho
[02:59] <mdz> because we spec'd this out 4 months ago and decided otherwise
[02:59] <mjg59> jdub: What does it do in the case of failure? Display anything informational?
[02:59] <jdub> and you can click a disclosure triangle to get the scrolly bits (you don't even have to switch tty)
[02:59] <whiprush> yeah that > dropdown is neat
[02:59] <mjg59> I think for now we go with a more attractive version of what we already have, and then redesign it in Breezy+1
[02:59] <jdub> mjg59: you can pop open the hidden terminal with the disclosure widget if you care
[03:00] <mjg59> jdub: Urgh. Yeah, that's a bit more awkward to do since we don't run X
[03:00] <mdz> jdub: we're not going to do user interaction, at least not in this iteration
[03:00] <jdub> j^: it gives you an impression of progress
[03:00] <jdub> mdz: not suggesting it (we have tty switching anyway)
[03:01] <mjg59> In principle bogl can do mouse input, but it's not going to be pretty
[03:01] <bur[n] er> jdub: possibly X is still broken with widescreen monitors??  
[03:01] <jdub> it's cool that rhgb does it, but i don't think lack of error status is reason to make it have the scrolly bit on the sexy screen
[03:01] <j^> jdub thats what a progressbar could be for: Starting Services... [|||||........] 
[03:01] <jdub> j^: don't have any meaningful way to understand startup period
[03:01] <mjg59> j^ progress bars are a complete arse
[03:01] <bur[n] er> i reconfigured xserver-xorg, but I still get the curses based bluescreen with "Failed to start the X server (your graphical interface).  It is likely that you it is not set up correctly.  Would you like to view the X server output to diagnose the problem?"
[03:02] <sladen> j^: and how long is the progress bar?
[03:02] <jdub> bur[n] er: have you looked at the output?
[03:02] <mjg59> They ought to increase at a linear speed, but we can't do that easily
[03:02] <jdub> mjg59: have you looked at SMF?
[03:02] <mjg59> jdub: TBH, our screen is not very sey
[03:02] <bur[n] er> jdub: i can't... the screen is locked here... I can't even do ctrl+alt+f2 
[03:02] <mjg59> jdub: Not yet. If it's possible in the future, I'll be happy
[03:02] <jdub> mjg59: we can make it sexy :)
[03:02] <bur[n] er> i can't ctrl+alt+bkspace either
[03:02] <mjg59> s/sey/sexy/
[03:02] <whiprush> bur[n] er: try ctrl-d
[03:02] <mjg59> jdub: There's a limit to 640x480x16 colour sexiness
[03:03] <bur[n] er> whiprush: :)
[03:03] <jdub> mjg59: the windows one looks sweet, i don't think we'll have too much trouble
[03:03] <mjg59> jdub: You think? I think we can do better than that, but I still don't think it'd look sexy
[03:04] <j^> sladen does that matter? did you ever see a progress bar that had anything todo with the time it takes
[03:04] <jdub> we must! WE MUST!
[03:04] <sladen> with a bountie and some rub-in oil, anything can be made to look sexy...
[03:04] <jdub> FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION
[03:04] <mjg59> j^: Progress bars that have no relation to the time it takes are teh suck
[03:04] <j^> mjg59 use a spinning wheel
[03:05] <mjg59> Nngh.
[03:07] <jdub> rhgb has service name and a spinner
[03:10] <mjg59> rhgb has better graphical primitives
[03:10] <sladen> rhgb has VTE and a full gtk widget set
[03:11] <mjg59> Yes
[03:12] <jdub> sure, but i'm not suggesting we need to go that far to improve usplash sass value
[03:13] <jdub> in terms of status, i'm trying to say that scrolly text smells, and a simple service name (or even just a single line of normal output) will be nicer
[03:13] <j^> an image like http://www.neystadt.org/john/album/London2003/DSCN1246-London-Eye-Wheel.JPG  with turning wheel would be cool
[03:14] <jdub> heh
[03:14] <jdub> in sixteen colours, when full screen updates are quite slow? :-)
[03:14] <sladen> lsb init works for standard Ubuntu packages;  you have to resort to screen-scraping unless you just use /etc/init.d/$name
[03:14] <mjg59> jdub: You're not going to see most of those service names, and you're not going to get any useful diagnostic output
[03:15] <bmonty> is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive the only source of package mirror info??
[03:15] <jdub> mjg59: you can switch to tty1 for diagnostic output if you need it
[03:15] <jdub> mjg59: look at the windows startup screen - no diagnostic output
[03:15] <mjg59> jdub: But that also sucks
[03:15] <jdub> mjg59: same with the mac one
[03:15] <sladen> j^: you're about 16777200 colours short of being able to do that
[03:15] <mjg59> "Please press these obscure keys if you want to know what's going on"
[03:15] <jdub> mjg59: for a desktop, that's not ridiculous.
[03:16] <mjg59> jdub: It's not ridiculous once we have the infrastructure to log those failures
[03:16] <jdub> (it's harder to get that output on mac and windows)
[03:16] <mjg59> With our current infrastructure, if something fails on startup the user will never notice (assuming using your suggestion)
[03:16] <mjg59> And that sucks
[03:17] <jdub> it's not like they could do a whole bunch about it even if they could see it
[03:17] <jdub> and it scrolls by quickly already anyway
[03:17] <mjg59> No, but they'd know something was broken
[03:17] <jdub> and they don't see all the output because gdm starts early
[03:17] <sladen> they can't fix even if they do see it.
[03:17] <mjg59> The alternative is that stuff just doesn't work and they have no idea whyt
[03:17] <sladen> snap.  It'll just scare them into turning the computer off during fsck
[03:17] <mjg59> gdm starts after everything that's important for the desktop
[03:18] <jdub> mjg59: can we automagically switch to tty1 when an init script has an error?
[03:18] <jdub> that at least is a major visual warning
[03:18] <mjg59> jdub: Not in a terribly easy way
[03:18] <mjg59> jdub: Especially given that it's expected for a couple of scripts to fail (ntpdate, for instance)
[03:18] <mjg59> I guess we could fix those
[03:19] <j^> what about fixing all those network scripts
[03:19] <jdub> mjg59: yeah, that would uglify it unnecessarily
[03:19] <bur[n] er> jdub: i see my X output and find that it can't find the "fixed" font and I should have x-window-system installed, but there is no package x-window-system... any ideas?  I promise, it's my last question for the eve ;)
[03:19] <mjg59> jdub: If hal fails to start, we ought to tell the user
[03:20] <mjg59> bur[n] er: Install xfonts-base
[03:20] <sladen> j^: all those network scripts should be made to hook a callback for when the network status changes;  then ntp can at least do something sensible
[03:20] <jdub> bur[n] er: if you do a dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg and have xfonts-base installed, it should work
[03:20] <bur[n] er> mjg59: already newest version
[03:20] <whiprush> jdub: this smf stuff jive license-wise?
[03:20] <jdub> whiprush: CDDL, not a problem
[03:20] <j^> sladen yup, and use NetworkManager/dbus for the network status
[03:20] <jdub> (and the minor nits with CDDL sun is willing to fix)
[03:21] <whiprush> interesting
[03:21] <mjg59> CDDL isn't an obvious problem
[03:21] <jdub> j^: we may get NM for breezy, but it's unlikely that we'll get that level of integration just yet :)
[03:21] <mjg59> It's obviously meant to be a free software license. If there are any problems, they'll fix them
[03:21] <mjg59> It's not worth the PR loss otherwise
[03:21] <bur[n] er> aww... dpkg-reconfigure xfonts-base did the trick :)
[03:21] <bur[n] er> thank you all so much!
[03:21] <sladen> bur[n] er: I had that issue on my R31.  I didn't get to the root of where it wasn't finding the 'fixed' font.  but just installing xbase-fonts isn't enough
[03:22] <j^> jdub i fixed NM today, including modem support http://bootlab.org/~j/bazaar/network-manager--ubuntu--5.11/
[03:22] <jdub> rawk :)
[03:22] <sladen> bur[n] er: ta, I'll try that
[03:22] <bur[n] er> sladen: gl :)
[03:23] <sladen> mjg59: having spoken to the people who made the decision;  up until 6 months before release they were expecting to use GPLv3
[03:23] <whiprush> hmm, some people are claiming less than 10 second boot times.
[03:24] <jdub> whiprush: you can get to a shell extremely quickly. but that's cheating. :-)
[03:24] <j^> what about a bios with webbrowser?
[03:24] <mjg59> sladen: GPLv3's existence would have made this easier
[03:25] <sladen> j^: gcc lynx*.c -static -m8086
[03:25] <sladen> mjg59: yes, their point of decision was 'needing' the patent crap
[03:26] <sebest> i have a strange behaviour with breezy X, any key i type on my keyboard change the resolution of X
[03:27] <sladen> mjg59: you would have enjoyed meet^flaming simon phipps
[03:28] <bur[n] er> sladen: reconfiguring xfonts-base worked to get X up then?
[03:28] <sladen> bur[n] er: dunno, I'll try
[03:30] <jdub> man, oil-cooled PCs freak me out
[03:31] <j^> jdub oil? its all about liquid nitrogen now.
[03:34] <Riddell> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportLatexXFTFonts created, koffice added to supported
[03:35] <sladen> is there any point gdm looping a failing X 3 times instead of just once?
[03:35] <sladen> ...and then giving a message dialogue where the only way out is  Alt-SysReq-e
[03:37] <sladen> bur[n] er: can you do  dpkg -S /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc  and see what's owning it?
[03:38] <bur[n] er> sladen: i have no misc directory in ....X11/fonts/
[03:43] <whiprush> hmmm
[03:43] <sladen> bur[n] er: alt-sysreq-r (reset keyboard) gets the Alt-Fn VT switching back...  GDM needs to not ask it's your-xserver-is-fucked on VT7...
[03:43] <whiprush> was networkmanager deferred?
[03:45] <bur[n] er> sladen: ctrl+d ?
[03:46] <jdub> whiprush: undecided atm
[03:46] <jdub> whiprush: afair
[03:47] <whiprush> there's a patch sitting in #13070.
[03:50] <mdz> Riddell: thanks.  feeling better
[03:50] <mdz> ?
[03:51] <Riddell> mdz: yes thanks (although I'm heading my flatmate coughing tonight, which is a bad sign)
[03:51] <Riddell> s/heading/hearing/
[03:58] <Riddell> mdz: what's your preference for smime support or demoting gnupg2?
[03:58] <mdz> Riddell: is upstream any closer to a release?  it's a development snapshot, right?
[03:59] <mdz> I'd prefer to demote it unless it's supported upstream
[04:05] <sebest> my X is looking for XKeysymDB in /usr/lib/X11 but it is in /usr/share/X11 ...
[04:09] <Riddell> "GnuPG 1.9 is the current development version of GnuPG.  Despite of
[04:09] <Riddell> that, most parts (in particular GPG-AGENT and GPGSM) are considered
[04:09] <Riddell> ready for production use."
[04:09] <Riddell> http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-announce/2005q2/000196.html
[04:22] <Lathiat> hrm, python-gtk2 is missing a dependancy on python-cairo
[04:22] <sladen> mpt: while true; sleep 5; cat /dev/fb0 > screenshot; done
[04:23] <mpt> "sleep 5"? It should have finished before 5 seconds is up :-)
[04:24] <sladen> can somebody with a working breezy Xorg setup try  dpkg -S fixed | grep font  to see if you can turn up where the fixed fonts are living now
[04:25] <OddAbe19> one sec
[04:25] <OddAbe19> root@ubuntu:/home/oddabel #  dpkg -S fixed | grep font
[04:25] <OddAbe19> console-data: /usr/share/consolefonts/grfixed.psf.gz
[04:25] <OddAbe19> root@ubuntu:/home/oddabel #
[04:25] <OddAbe19> one more sec
[04:26] <sladen> OddAbe19: okay, thanks.  I think I've found the root cause elsewhere
[04:26] <OddAbe19> Section "Files"
[04:26] <OddAbe19> #       FontPath        "unix/:7100"                    # local font server
[04:26] <OddAbe19>         # if the local font server has problems, we can fall back on these
[04:26] <OddAbe19>         FontPath        "/usr/share/X11/fonts/misc"
[04:26] <OddAbe19>         FontPath        "/usr/share/X11/fonts/cyrillic"
[04:26] <OddAbe19>         FontPath        "/usr/share/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled"
[04:26] <OddAbe19>         FontPath        "/usr/share/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled"
[04:26] <OddAbe19>         FontPath        "/usr/share/X11/fonts/Type1"
[04:26] <OddAbe19>         FontPath        "/usr/share/X11/fonts/CID"
[04:26] <OddAbe19>         FontPath        "/usr/share/X11/fonts/Speedo"
[04:26] <OddAbe19>         FontPath        "/usr/share/X11/fonts/100dpi"
[04:26] <OddAbe19>         FontPath        "/usr/share/X11/fonts/75dpi"
[04:26] <OddAbe19> lol
[04:27] <sladen> sssh.  /etc/X11/fonts/misc vs. /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc
[04:28] <bur[n] er> :)
[04:28] <jp> wow
[04:28] <jp> that's cool
[04:28] <jp> :P
[04:35] <sladen> daniels: xfonts-base is broken.  It's missing a symlink  /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc -> ../../../share/X11/fonts/misc
[04:37] <sladen> jdub: re: your example earlier.  I've just started GDM on a system with *nothing* running (result of several sysreq-e's) ...the result is just that I got a dialogue saying ''couldn't init HAL''.  The system doesn't actually seem to be affected otherwise!
[05:02] <_d4vid> i haved problems with my firefox.. flash freezed my firefox.. now iam installed debian unstable version 1.0.6.2 works fine.. 
[05:31] <quad> is there a problem with gdm in breezy? i get a message in my syslog that says something about gdm not being able to start greeter
[05:33] <Diablo-D3> heh
[05:35] <quad> my internet also only works for the fist 30 seconds i have it turned one!
[05:35] <quad> *on
[06:22] <whiprush> jdub: is there a "polish" keyword, or some kind of "it'd be easy, given attention
[06:22] <whiprush> "
[06:23] <jdub> hrm?
[06:23] <whiprush> for example, bug 6853
[06:24] <whiprush> It's been fixed in opensuse.
[06:24] <whiprush> well, the icon is crap, sounds trivial to fix.
[06:24] <jdub> *oh*
[06:24] <whiprush> I was thinking of something like, is there a bugzilla keyword for "low hanging UI fruit."
[06:24] <jdub> polish bug keyword :-)
[06:24] <whiprush> right
[06:25] <whiprush> heh
[06:25] <jdub> yeah, trivial or enhancement is appropriate
[06:25] <jdub> but keyword... not really
[06:26] <whiprush> gnome bugzilla has an easy_fix keyword, you think this would fit?
[06:28] <jdub> i think we have one too
[06:28] <jammcq> mdz: ping
[06:28] <jdub> yeah, easyfix
[06:29] <whiprush> marked
[06:29] <whiprush> jammcq: he mentioned something about going out tonight and getting drunk
[06:29] <jammcq> hey jorge,jeff
[06:29] <jammcq> hmm
[06:29] <jdub> yo jammcq 
[06:29] <whiprush> or something to that effect.
[06:29] <jdub> jammcq: i didn't realise you guys got an LWE award - congrats!
[06:29] <jammcq> jdub: yeah, we sure did :)
[07:00] <jdub> ah bum
[07:00] <jdub> is the image built in to usplash?
[07:02] <jdub> bum, yes
[08:01] <_d4v_d> see u all .. bye
[10:39] <mdz> jammcq: pong
[11:09] <ploum> Hello
[11:10] <ploum> is there any bugzilla admin here ?
[11:20] <Amaranth> ploum: It's still the weekend, I doubt it. :)
[11:24] <ploum> Amaranth, just, I forgot it !
[11:25] <ploum> for me, there's no difference between those days ;-)
[11:25] <Lathiat> heh
[11:25] <Lathiat> same
[11:25] <ploum> well, so I've no more reason to not studying :-(
[12:16] <sivang> MOrning all
[12:16] <mdke> i'd like to test an alternative method of resizing my windows partition before installing Ubuntu, rather than using the install CD. Does anyone know a nice free solution?
[12:17] <Lathiat> parted on a live cd?
[12:17] <mdke> trying to pin down bug #13390
[12:17] <Lathiat> run ubuntu live and install gparted
[12:17] <mdke> Lathiat, doesn't the install cd use parted?
[12:17] <Lathiat> probably
[12:17] <mdke> i need an alternative
[12:17] <Lathiat> theres also 'ntfsresize'
[12:17] <Lathiat> it might use that 
[12:17] <Lathiat> i dunno
[12:18] <Lathiat> hell parted might even call that
[12:18] <sivang> jamesh: around ?
[12:18] <Amaranth> the only two i know of are parted and PartitionMagic
[12:18] <Lathiat> yeh 
[12:19] <davyd> I think it uses ntfsresize
[12:19] <Lathiat> err
[12:19] <Lathiat> is it just me
[12:19] <Lathiat> or is his diagnostics partition in the middle of his linux partition
[12:19] <davyd> hoary also does it without any logging to the d-i screen from memory
[12:19] <Lathiat> oh
[12:19] <Lathiat> its not
[12:19] <mdke> partition magic is not free tho
[12:19] <davyd> which is strange and wrong
[12:57] <pitti_> Moin
[01:00] <sivang> pitti: Moins Martin :)
[01:01] <sivang> Doh, he logged off
[01:02] <sivang> ah no he didn't :)
[01:04] <sivang> mdz: Hi, did launchpad integration made feature freeze basically?
[01:04] <sivang> s/basically/eventually/
[01:11] <pitti> sivang: no, still here :-)
[01:43] <mantiena> Hi all
[01:44] <mantiena> mdz, hi, are you online ?
[01:57] <sivang> pitti: yeah, I noticed - security work?
[03:32] <mantiena> mdz, hello
[03:38] <pef> hi
[03:43] <mjg59> Hrm. Which package has xev ended up in?
[03:52] <\sh> mjg59: i would like to help u but apt-file is not installable
[03:55] <mjg59> Hrngh.
[03:55] <mjg59> xmodmap has vanished as well
[03:55] <highvoltage> really?
[03:58] <mjg59> highvoltage: Well, it doesn't seem to be on my system
[03:58] <siretart> mjg59: sorry for the bugreport. I couldn't imagine that celerons M do not support frequency scaling
[03:58] <Lathiat> siretart: they dont?
[03:59] <siretart> Lathiat: appearently not
[03:59] <Lathiat> eww
[03:59] <mjg59> siretart: No problem
[03:59] <Lathiat> i guess theyre celerons
[03:59] <mjg59> It's the distinguishing factor of them
[04:01] <siretart> mjg59: is p4-clockmod not an option?
[04:01] <mjg59> siretart: I don't think so - it's likely to be a Pentium M core, not a P4 one
[04:03] <siretart> damn. gotta go. bbl
[04:47] <mantiena> mdz, wake up ;)
[05:19] <trygvebw> Hi. Is the GTK 2.8 in breezy compiled with Cairo support?
[05:20] <tseng> yes
[05:20] <trygvebw> okay :)
[05:20] <trygvebw> great.
[05:20] <trygvebw> Are there any icon sets or GTK themes that use Cairo?
[05:22] <Lathiat> theres some beta clearlooks stuff
[05:22] <luis_> where is that beta clearlooks in cvs?
[05:22] <trygvebw> yeah, i saw that, but it's not avaiable, or..?
[05:22] <trygvebw> *available
[05:22] <tseng> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/clearlooks/clearlooks-cairo/
[05:23] <trygvebw> great
[05:23] <luis_> oh, I thought it was on a branch
[05:23] <tseng> sort of :)
[05:24] <luis_> though
[05:24] <luis_> hrm
[05:24] <luis_> I thought all clearlooks devel was moving to gnome cvs?
[05:25] <tseng> huh, if i checkout clearlooks module i dont ahve that dir
[05:25] <tseng> it is its own module
[05:27] <luis_> http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gtk-engines/engines/clearlooks/src/ ?
[05:28] <luis_> hrm
[05:29] <luis_> thos's email seems to say that gtk-engines is canonical
[05:29] <luis_> http://www.mail-archive.com/desktop-devel-list@gnome.org/msg02174.html
[05:31] <trygvebw> so it's in gtk-engines?
[05:31] <luis_> yeah
[05:32] <trygvebw> ok.
[05:32] <luis_> AFAICT that is the canonical one
[05:32] <luis_> though it sure looks like there is some devel going on at sf.net still
[05:33] <trygvebw> okay
[05:37] <trygvebw> so i just download it from CVS and then configures it with ./configure --disable-crux --disable-hc --disable-industrial --disable-lightouseblue --disable-metal --disable-mist --disable-redmond --disable-smooth --disable-thinice --prefix=/usr
[05:37] <trygvebw> huh
[05:37] <trygvebw> oh well
[05:38] <tseng> yeah so
[05:38] <trygvebw> okay.
[05:38] <tseng> clearlooks-cairo considered slightly unstable
[05:38] <trygvebw> i guessed since it is in cvs only ;)
[05:38] <trygvebw> *installed*
[05:39] <trygvebw> hmm
[05:39] <trygvebw> should i restart X maybe
[05:39] <trygvebw> let's see...
[05:41] <trygvebw> nope
[05:41] <trygvebw> ahh
[05:41] <trygvebw> i have forgot to upgrade gnome :)
[05:45] <trygvebw> anything else i need to do?
[05:47] <Lathiat> pray
[05:54] <trygvebw> :/
[06:00] <trygvebw> Is the GNOME in breezy broken?
[06:00] <Lathiat> n o
[06:00] <trygvebw> ok.
[06:07] <jp> Is the X in breezy broken?
[06:09] <tseng> no.
[06:10] <trygvebw> so dist-upgrading is safe?
[06:10] <trygvebw> or just upgrading gnome-desktop-environment?
[06:11] <jp> tseng thanks
[06:31] <jammcq> mdz: ping
[06:35] <jp> the
[06:38] <mdz> jammcq: pong
[06:42] <jammcq> hey
[06:42] <jammcq> mdz: do you have some time to go over a few issues with ltsp/breezy ?
[06:42] <mdz> jammcq: sure
[06:42] <jammcq> it's not launching a gui login screen for the thin client
[06:42] <jammcq> I get a text login, but none of my user accounts work
[06:43] <mdz> yeah, there are no user accounts on the client
[06:43] <jammcq> also, after upgrading hoary to breezy, eth0 doesn't automatically come up
[06:43] <mdz> the easiest way to debug is to chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd root
[06:43] <jammcq> I have to do a 'ifup eth0'
[06:43] <mdz> jammcq: that's http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13398
[06:44] <mdz> once you've set a root password and can login, check /var/log/ldm.log
[06:45] <sivang> mdz: ping, do you have a couple of minutes to talk about launchpad-integration ?
[06:45] <mdz> sivang: ok
[06:46] <jammcq> mdz: also, it is taking 5-1/2 minutes to boot a thin client
[06:46] <sivang> mdz: has everything went ok? I see that evo was not patched (Accoridng to wiki page) and that applets were probably not addressed, were their any difficulties with the bonobo helper?
[06:46] <jammcq> not exactly speedy, i'd say
[06:47] <mdz> the new linux-restricted-modules infrastructure is a huge penalty for thin clients
[06:47] <mdz> I think we'll probably have to disable it
[06:47] <Lathiat> whys that?
[06:47] <jammcq> what is 'linux-restricted-modules' ?
[06:47] <mdz> jammcq: apt-cache show linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12-6-386
[06:47] <mdz> Lathiat: because it takes a long time to do its work over NFS
[06:48] <mdz> sivang: you need to ask seb128
[06:48] <Lathiat> mdz: ah
[06:48] <sivang> mdz: ah ok, I saw you last edited the page so I figured to ask you , thanks anyway
[06:48] <mdz> sivang: I just reorganized it
[06:48] <sivang> mdz: k, cool
[06:50] <jammcq> also, I initially, I tried using my existing dhcp server, but I was unable to get ROOTSERVER to be anything other than the IP address of the DHCP server
[06:51] <jammcq> so, I setup dhcpd on the breezy box, but had lots of problems because the breezy IP address was 192.168.254.149, and dhcpd had a hard time with that. 
[06:52] <mdz> jammcq: is your existing dhcp server something other than ISC dhcpd?
[06:52] <jammcq> yes, ISC dhcpd 3.0
[06:52] <pef> bye !
[06:53] <mdz> jammcq: you tried "next-server <ip address of the NFS server>;" ?
[06:54] <jammcq> yeah, pxe doesn't honor that, so it wouldn't get the kernel from the right place
[06:54] <mdz> that works fine with my thinkpad
[06:54] <Lathiat> might depend on the bios
[06:55] <Lathiat> and/or network chipset
[06:55] <jammcq> i'm using an HP T5305 thin client
[06:57] <jammcq> sbalneav had some problems last night too, but they were different.  he's getting a libc6 issue from the initramfs
[06:58] <jammcq> his thin client has a via-533 cpu, and I wonder if there's something about the way glibc was built that the via doesn't like
[07:02] <mdz> jammcq: hmm, can I get more detail about the initramfs issue?
[07:03] <mdz> oh, I see
[07:03] <mdz> initramfs-tools seems to be choosing to include the glibc used on the server
[07:03] <jammcq> mdz: not till tonight, when sbalneav gets back online. he's out doing family things
[07:03] <jammcq> hmm, server glibc is really NOT what we want for the client
[07:03] <mdz> I don't think it should be fatal though
[07:04] <mdz> the important stuff in initramfs uses busybox or klibc
[07:04] <siretart> mjg59: around?
[07:04] <mdz> klibc should be plenty to start a thin client
[07:05] <siretart> mjg59: success with p4-clockmod with Celeron M, powernowd does throttle the cpu nicely
[07:05] <jammcq> well, when scott gets back later, he'll have to explain what it's doing
[07:05] <mdz> I only have one netbootable system which isn't an i686, and it's my router so I can't use it as a test platform
[07:06] <mdz> should be trivial to fix though
[07:06] <mdz> if he could file a bug in bugzilla against initramfs-tools, that would be great
[07:06] <jammcq> k
[07:09] <mjg59> siretart: Really? Gosh
[07:09] <mjg59> siretart: I wouldn't recommend it - the latancy is quite poor with p4-clockmod
[07:09] <siretart> mjg59: yes, I'm just writing a comment on the bugzilla entry
[07:09] <mjg59> We ended up blacklisting it because of that. I didn't know it worked on Celerons, though
[07:09] <siretart> mjg59: hey, it's still better than nothing
[07:09] <mjg59> siretart: Arguably not :(
[07:10] <siretart> huh? what problems will arise?
[07:11] <jammcq> dhcpd seems to be doing odd things.  for instance, I have 'range 192.168.0.20 192.168.0.63', and it handed out an address of 192.168.0.244 to the client
[07:11] <mdz> are you sure it's talking to the right dhcp server?
[07:11] <mjg59> The processor doesn't speed up fast enough when an application needs CPU time
[07:11] <Lathiat> if it saves power can be usefull to lock it down
[07:11] <mdz> jammcq: ah, I know
[07:12] <mdz> jammcq: you're using ltsp-server-standalone, which overrides the config file with /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
[07:12] <mdz> it should probably install /etc/dhcp3/README.ltsp or something
[07:12] <jammcq> huh ?
[07:12] <jammcq> ah
[07:12] <jammcq> ooh, that's scary
[07:13] <jammcq> that would explain my problem with 192.168.254.149 too
[07:14] <siretart> mjg59: hm. true, indeed. openoffice2 starting quite sloppy. what would be the right solution then? improving speedstep_centrino?
[07:15] <Lathiat> imho powernowd itself is slow
[07:15] <Lathiat> the ondemand schedular in the kernel gives much better performance
[07:15] <Lathiat> possibly less power saving but it wasnt terrible
[07:17] <jammcq> but.... I am VERY impressed with how quickly breezy boots and gets to a login screen on the server
[07:20] <mdz> jammcq: compared to Hoary?  I wouldn't expect a dramatic difference
[07:21] <mdz> we made a lot of improvements in that area for Hoary though
[07:22] <Keybuk> that being said, breezy does seem to boot a lot faster than hoary by sheer accident
[07:22] <Keybuk> default install is about 10-15s faster
[07:22] <mjg59> siretart: Having a non-crippled CPU
[07:22] <luis_> slightly OT- anyone know if /etc/lsb-release exists in a standard debian install?
[07:23] <siretart> mjg59: hey, thats a canonical laptop ;)
[07:23] <highvoltage> luis_: perhaps you should ask on #debian
[07:23] <mdz> luis_: I don't think any lsb packages are installed by default in Debian at present
[07:24] <luis_> thanks, mdz
[07:27] <mjg59> siretart: Heh
[07:27] <mjg59> siretart: But seriously, there's no good way of supporting power scaling on Celeron machines
[07:28] <siretart> mjg59: OK. I was just scared/confused by the error message from powernowd on bootup
[07:28] <siretart> and I couldn't imagine that intel/ibm would sell such crippled cpu's
[07:28] <jammcq> mdz: ok, i've got a root shell on the thin client. where is that ldm log file?
[07:29] <mdz> jammcq: /var/log/ldm.log
[07:30] <Lathiat> siretart: yeh its called celeron for a reason :)
[07:30] <jammcq> yeah, found it
[07:30] <Lathiat> i knew someone that used to say
[07:30] <Lathiat> sell-air-on
[07:30] <mjg59> siretart: Yeah, the message could possibly do with tidying
[07:30] <Lathiat> (i say sell-err-on)
[07:31] <Lathiat> mjg59: so whatever usplash is doing screws my console after resume (random cruft all over it
[07:31] <jammcq> http://pastebot.geeksinthehood.net:8888/123
[07:31] <Lathiat> yet vesafb works fine after suspend, hrm :P
[07:31] <jammcq> mdz: check that url for the ldm.log file
[07:31] <Lathiat> this is backwards to everyone else apparently :)
[07:32] <mdz> jammcq: sounds like the X server didn't start; check /var/log/Xorg.*.log
[07:32] <mjg59> Lathiat: To what extent?
[07:32] <mjg59> X doesn't come back at all?
[07:32] <Lathiat> no X works fine
[07:33] <Lathiat> my *console* just doesnt work, it has cruft all over it and it doesnt do anything
[07:33] <Lathiat> well it does things, random bits change all over the screen :)
[07:33] <Lathiat> interestingly it runs from top to bottom
[07:33] <mjg59> Are you running the latest X?
[07:33] <jammcq> yeah, xorg.conf doesn't look complete
[07:33] <Lathiat> where as the console is only 640x480 in the middle of the screen
[07:33] <Lathiat> yep
[07:33] <mjg59> Hm. Ok.
[07:33] <mjg59> Interesting.
[07:34] <Lathiat> this is with a nvidia card
[07:34] <Lathiat> i am running the binary drivers, might be upsetting things
[07:34] <Lathiat> (likely)
[07:34] <mjg59> Ah
[07:34] <Lathiat> i might try with nv
[07:34] <mjg59> Can you try without?
[07:34] <Lathiat> ok bbs
[07:34] <mdz> jammcq: is it obviously corrupt?
[07:34] <jammcq> http://pastebot.geeksinthehood.net:8888/124
[07:34] <jammcq> it's just incomplete
[07:34] <mdz> I worked around that bug in ltsp 0.46
[07:35] <mdz> which I apparently forgot to upload
[07:35] <jammcq> heh
[07:35] <mdz> uploaded now
[07:35] <mdz> meanwhile, people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/ltsp/
[07:35] <mdz> you just need the new ltsp-client in the chroot
[07:37] <jammcq> so, in chroot, can I just 'dpkg -i ltsp-client_0.46_i386.deb' ?
[07:38] <mistik1> mdz: op yourself and do the invite
[07:38] <mdz> jammcq: yes
[07:39] <mistik1> now if you goto the webpage you will see ubuntu-devel in the list ;-)
[07:39] <jammcq> mistik1: thanks buddy
[07:39] <mdz> ok
[07:40] <mistik1> I also have no problem with you creating a redirect to the site from a ubuntu-linux.org addy
[07:40] <mistik1> my pleasure
[07:41] <siretart> mjg59: are there any plans of adding tpb to main? I've seen a malone bugreport about trouble with the nvram module not loaded by hotplug/by default, and problems with permissions on /dev/nvram
[07:42] <mistik1> jammcq: btw, I've been thinking about moving to the LISP pastebot which support anotations to the paste and such and such, what do you think of that?
[07:42] <jammcq> mistik1: sounds cool
[07:42] <jammcq> although we should carry on that conversation over at #ltsp
[07:42] <mistik1> this way you could correct a paste that someone made instead of having to tell them what to do
[07:42] <mistik1> ok, my appologies
[07:43] <Lathiat> mjg59: ah ok works with nv
[07:43] <Lathiat> mjg59: unfortunately i stil lhave that 2 line thing which makes my console useless
[07:45] <Lathiat> and someone needs to teach google about AC power and to stop indexing when on battery
[07:45] <Lathiat> err, beagle
[07:46] <mjg59> Lathiat: Hrmph. Weird.
[07:46] <mjg59> siretart: There's no secure way of adding it to main
[07:46] <mjg59> Which sucks
[07:47] <mjg59> I'll look at a cleaner implementation
[07:47] <Lathiat> cleaner impl of?
[07:47] <Lathiat> mjg59: so vesafb breaks suspend on most hardware?
[07:47] <siretart> mjg59: what about the nvram module? Is the typical ubuntu user expected to do a 'echo nvram | sudo tee -a /etc/modules' himself? what are the problems with that?
[07:47] <siretart> Lathiat: cleaner impl of tpb
[07:48] <Lathiat> siretart: ah
[07:48] <mjg59> Lathiat: Yes
[07:48] <Lathiat> mjg59: do you have any idea how i can find a list of vesa modes for my specific hardware?
[07:48] <mjg59> Uh. There shouldn't be specific vesa modes
[07:48] <Lathiat> well apparently you can get some for liek widescreen 
[07:49] <Lathiat> that vary 
[07:49] <mjg59> The numbering is part of the standard
[07:49] <mjg59> Oh, eww
[07:49] <Lathiat> (just what ive heard, i could be wrong)
[07:49] <mjg59> That's not strictly vesa, then
[07:49] <Lathiat> so maybe not
[07:49] <Lathiat> where can i get a list of vesa modes?
[07:49] <mjg59> siretart: nvram probably ought to be autoloaded, but that won't help the tpb case
[07:49] <Lathiat> (higher than those in the kernel docs)
[07:49] <mjg59> Lathiat: I think the VESA spec is open
[07:50] <Lathiat> mjg59: hrm is it ?
[07:50] <siretart> mjg59: shall I file a but about nvram? against which package then? hotplug?
[07:50] <mjg59> Lathiat: http://www.vesa.org/Public/VBE/vbe3.pdf
[07:50] <siretart> I know that this wont solve the tpb problem for itself. thats just a first step
[07:51] <mjg59> siretart: Hmm. hotplug probably isn't the right choice - there's no way of it knowing
[07:51] <mjg59> It probably ought to be in /etc/modules by default on x86 and amd64
[07:52] <siretart> hm. I'll write a mail to ubuntu-devel, then
[08:05] <Lathiat> mjg59: eeps why is usplash seeded in main already?
[08:05] <mjg59> Lathiat: Because it's targetted at Breezy
[08:06] <Lathiat> heh ok
[08:06] <Lathiat> damn stupid hardware
[08:07] <mjg59> Lathiat: It should be fine on any hardware that the installer was fine on
[08:07] <Lathiat> mjg59: installer isnt fine either :)
[08:07] <mjg59> Well, indeed
[08:07] <Lathiat> im sure it worked at one point, way back, i should try the warty installer
[08:08] <mjg59> So you disable vga16 during the install, and then usplash doesn't run either
[08:08] <mjg59> So it doesn't break anyone
[08:08] <Lathiat> well usplash still boots if you take splash out
[08:08] <Lathiat> be good if you could fix that
[08:08] <mjg59> Does it? Grah.
[08:08] <mjg59> It's not meant to.
[08:08] <Lathiat> yeh someone else mentioned it earlier but i'll try it again if you want
[08:09] <mjg59> The script looks ok
[08:09] <mjg59> Hrm
[08:09] <Lathiat> theres also other random errors
[08:10] <Lathiat> like i get a chroot: command not foudn adn stuff at the end of the boot
[08:10] <Lathiat> know about that?
[08:10] <mjg59> Yeah, there's some tidying up stuff needed in the initramfs stuff
[08:10] <mjg59> I'm not sure why the chmod throws an error
[08:10] <Lathiat> no path i assume
[08:10] <mjg59>         chmod g+rw /dev/fb0
[08:10] <Keybuk> heh @ ssh ... I appear to have just got a screenful of "Killed by signal 1."
[08:10] <mjg59> Ought to be ok. Weird.
[08:11] <Lathiat> i assume theres no path and you want /bin/chmod ?
[08:12] <mjg59> Doesn't it give "chmod: no such file or directory" rather than "sh: chmod - command not found"?
[08:12] <Lathiat> er
[08:12] <Lathiat> let me look
[08:13] <Lathiat>  /scripts/init-premount/usplash: 44: chmod: not found
[08:13] <mjg59> Ah. Hm.
[08:13] <mjg59> Yeah, maybe it needs a path, then
[08:17] <Lathiat> mjg59: also my cpu speed has a habbit of getting stuck on 600mhz requiring you to stop, start, stop, start powernowd to get moving agian (i think its a kernel bug tho as doing stuff in /sys fails to) -- hard of that one? (pentium-m)
[08:17] <mjg59> Hrm. Nope.
[08:17] <mjg59> We'll probably switch away from powernowd, though
[08:18] <Lathiat> and i've even seen it, with powernowd stop, drop and get stuck on 600
[08:18] <Lathiat> i think that was only once tho
[08:18] <Lathiat> mjg59: and use what?
[08:18] <tseng> Lathiat: i think that is more just powernowd sucking
[08:18] <tseng> but i see the same
[08:18] <mjg59> Lathiat: ondemand
[08:18] <Lathiat> tseng: well i thought that, except that if i restart it
[08:18] <Lathiat> its still stuck
[08:18] <mjg59> The kernel can do it on its own
[08:18] <Lathiat> i have to restart it a second time
[08:18] <Lathiat> mjg59: cool, that works better
[08:19] <Lathiat> and echoing something into /sys gives some weird error
[08:19] <Lathiat> but restarting powernowd twice seems to get it going again
[08:19] <jammcq> mdz: ldm seems to be stuck in a loop. I see X for a second, then the screen blanks, and about 5 seconds of pause, and then it does it again.  Looking at the ldm python script, seems like either Xorg or the greeter is failing
[08:20] <Lathiat> tseng: and yeh, thats mighty annoying
[08:20] <tseng> that sounds like an x server or configuration problem
[08:20] <tseng> gdm tries to restart X every 5 seconds
[08:21] <jammcq> the Xserver seems ok, cuz I see the gray screen with X cursor, but then the screen goes away
[08:21] <jammcq> it's not GDM
[08:21] <jammcq> this is on a thin client, using ldm
[08:31] <Lathiat> mjg59: heeres something interesting
[08:31] <Lathiat> mjg59: if i turn video expansion on, it works fine
[08:31] <mjg59> Lathiat: Haha
[08:31] <Lathiat> same goes for the warty install
[08:31] <Lathiat> broken with it off, works with it on
[08:31] <mjg59> Ok - that'll be vbetool posting it oddly
[08:31] <mjg59> Oh, I see what you mean
[08:32] <mjg59> Hm. Not a lot we can do there, I guess
[08:32] <Lathiat> (and by works i mean, vga16fb doesnt do the weird thing)
[08:32] <mjg59> Except find someone who knows more about vga hardware
[08:32] <Lathiat> heh yeh
[08:32] <Lathiat> the isolinux boot screen seems to look right
[08:32] <Lathiat> altho it wasnt scrolling down
[08:33] <mjg59> Windows seems to manage
[08:34] <mdz> jammcq: anything in the log?
[08:35] <Lathiat> mjg59: yeh
[08:35] <Lathiat> bios screen too
[08:37] <jammcq> mdz: working on getting to the log
[08:38] <mjg59> Lathiat: Is the bios screen graphical?
[08:40] <Lathiat> mjg59: yeh
[08:40] <Lathiat> mjg59: has a logo etc
[08:41] <Lathiat> big thunking dell in the middle :)
[08:45] <jammcq> mdz: ldm.log shows:   Didn't get the right output from the greeter
[08:46] <mdz> jammcq: only that?
[08:46] <jammcq> yep
[08:46] <jammcq> I changed the 'while True' to 'if True' in ldm, to make it run only once
[08:47] <mdz> yeah, i need to do something about that error reporting
[08:47] <mdz> let me upgrade my chroot to current breezy and see if something obvious has broken
[08:47] <jammcq> k
[08:47] <jammcq> are you just doing 'apt-get upgrade' ?
[08:47] <mdz> jammcq: you might try running the greeter by hand with an appropriate DISPLAY
[08:47] <jammcq> but I don't have an Xserver running
[08:48] <mdz> surely you have one somewhere on your network ;-)
[08:48] <jammcq> ah
[08:48] <jammcq> true enough
[08:49] <mdz> I'm doing chroot/apt-get dist-upgrade
[08:49] <jammcq> k
[08:49] <jammcq> mdz:    ImportError: No module named cairo
[08:50] <mdz> hmm, I wonder whose bug that is
[08:51] <mdz> I think probably python-gtk or python-glade
[08:51] <mdz> jammcq: can you paste the full backtrace?
[08:51] <jammcq> sure
[08:51] <mdz> jammcq: meanwhile, installing python-cairo should get it past that
[08:52] <mdz> I need to do something about the error reporting in ldm; it ought to do something useful with the console
[08:52] <Lathiat> mjg59: hrm, you should hastle daniels to get glxinfo in breezy
[08:53] <mjg59> Lathiat: Haha
[08:53] <no_paste> "jammcq" pasted "gtk greeter traceback" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.geeksinthehood.net:8888/130
[08:53] <mjg59> Lathiat: I'm running out of daniels favours :)
[08:53] <jammcq> there ya go
[08:53] <Lathiat> glxgears would also be a usefull quick test
[08:53] <Lathiat> mjg59: heh
[08:54] <mdz> jammcq: python-gtk bug, thanks
[08:55] <jammcq> mdz: all part of the shake out I guess :)
[08:55] <mdz> this would have broken quite recently
[08:55] <mdz> wednesday
[08:56] <mdz> things should start being less broken in feature freeze
[08:57] <mdz> 240X?  sounds old
[08:57] <mjg59> It is
[08:57] <mjg59> But it's lovely
[08:58] <mjg59> Only problem is some weird yenta bug. It's probably biting other people too.
[08:59] <mdz> jammcq: I'm keen to see what the performance is like with your thin client and ssh
[08:59] <mdz> I was surprised at how fast it was for me, but my laptop is fairly beefy by thin client standards
[09:01] <Keybuk> mdz: would you have any objection to syncing devscripts 2.9.4 from Debian?
[09:01] <mdz> Keybuk: depends on what's changed
[09:01] <Keybuk> added support for "bts block" and "bts unblock"
[09:02] <mdz> that's all?
[09:02] <Keybuk> a couple of bug fixes:
[09:02] <Keybuk>   [ Julian Gilbey ] 
[09:02] <Keybuk>    * bts: fix forwarded command (Closes: #320703)
[09:02] <Keybuk>    * debchange: un-html-ise bug titles when using --closes
[09:02] <Keybuk> 
[09:02] <Keybuk>    [ Joey Hess ] 
[09:02] <Keybuk>    * bts: Support new block and unblock commands.
[09:02] <mdz> no objections
[09:02] <Keybuk> k, I'll ask elmo
[09:11] <mdz> Keybuk: you're back home now?
[09:12] <Keybuk> yup
[09:13] <Lathiat> mjg59: ehci, uhci, usb 1.1/2, which is which?
[09:13] <mjg59> ehci - usb2
[09:13] <mjg59> uhci and ohci are usb1
[09:14] <\sh> ohci is compaq style usb1 isn't it?
[09:14] <mjg59> Yes
[09:14] <mjg59> Also seen in Apples and most add-on ehci cards
[09:16] <\sh> hmm...lets wrap up my first stuff for laptop testing
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> hey all
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> is it me, or is it hard to find a list of what patches are applied to ubuntu's kernel?
[09:53] <Seveas> Diablo-D3, linux-patch-ubuntu-2.6.10 - Ubuntu patches to Linux 2.6.10
[09:53] <Lathiat> it is a tad hard, if you apt-get source linux-image-`uname -r` all the patches are in debian/patches
[09:53] <Seveas> (please note that #ubuntu-devel is not a support channel, #ubuntu is for support)
[09:54] <Diablo-D3> Seveas: not asking for support ;)
[09:54] <Diablo-D3> I actually came here to start a discussion on pre-empt and low latency.
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> but I wanted to see if the ubuntu kernel already had those first
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> does anyone actually know if it does, btw?
[09:55] <Seveas> Diablo-D3, grep -i preempt /boot/config-*
[09:56] <Seveas> CONFIG_PREEMPT=y
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> /boot/config-2.6.10-5-k7:CONFIG_PREEMPT=y
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> /boot/config-2.6.12-6-k7:# CONFIG_PREEMPT is not set
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> so... preempt has been turned off?
[09:56] <Seveas> no
[09:56] <Seveas> it's =y
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> read 2.6.12
[09:57] <mdke> looks like it's off
[09:57] <Seveas> ah
[09:57] <mdke> Diablo-D3, there is a #ubuntu-kernel chan if it helps at all
[09:57] <Diablo-D3> mdke: hah cool
[09:57] <Keybuk> elmo: thanks (re: devscripts)
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> its right to treat ubuntu as a desktop distro, right?
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> it seems very odd not to have preempt and low latency in a desktop kernel
[09:59] <Seveas> it's right to treat is as a distro suitable for the desktop, but not *just* as desktop distro
[09:59] <Diablo-D3> Seveas: yeah, but if they wanted a server distro, wouldnt they just run debian?
[09:59] <mdke> argh
[10:00] <mdke> this is not really the place for such discussions Diablo-D3
[10:00] <Seveas> indeed
[10:00] <Diablo-D3> there doesnt seem to be a place for such discussions, mdke 
[10:00] <Seveas> come to #ubuntu or #ubuntu-off-topic for that
[10:00] <Seveas> #ubuntu-offtopic that is
[10:00] <Diablo-D3> #ubuntu doesnt work because its full of morons who chatter too much
[10:00] <Seveas> right, morons huh
[10:00] <Seveas> good luck getting help/discussion then
[10:01] <Diablo-D3> Seveas: lets face it, there are too many people asking help in there
[10:01] <mjg59> Diablo-D3: People asking for help in a user support channel? Goodness.
[10:02] <Seveas> Diablo-D3, come to #ubuntu-offtopic for this discussion. Not in here.
[11:08] <Burgundavia> mjg59, ping
[11:11] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Hi
[11:12] <Burgundavia> mjg59, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ToshibaTecraA5 <-- first draft of a standard form. This is for my laptop. I will add/change to make it copy&paste operation
[11:12] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Ok, excellent
[11:14] <ajmitch_> how much more info will you want?
[11:14] <ajmitch_> as much useful/relevant info as we can provide?
[11:14] <Burgundavia> mjg59, if I forgot something, it is an accident, not intentional
[11:14] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Looks good so far
[11:14] <Burgundavia> mjg59, matthew east (mdke) is concerned about forcing peole to use one form
[11:14] <mjg59> It's going to become difficult to consolidate otherwise
[11:15] <mdke> as a personal thing i don't like those tables
[11:15] <mjg59> The aim of this is to provide information to users
[11:15] <mdke> perhaps the whole thing should be consolidated from the start
[11:15] <mjg59> Unless that information is presented in a consistent way, it's not very helpful
[11:15] <Burgundavia> I think I can fix the table widths
[11:16] <Burgundavia> or make it all one big table
[11:16] <mdke> LaptopTestingHardware is already there, that could be used
[11:16] <mjg59> mdke: I'm not that keen on it - the information isn't really fine-grained enough
[11:16] <mdke> and testers could be encouraged to flesh things out in their own reports
[11:17] <mjg59> And there's a lot of missing information
[11:17] <mdke> mjg59, well small changes could be made to that table, but to be honest, if you want a consolidated record, it's going to be very difficult to have a lot of detail
[11:17] <mdke> there is a limit to how wide a table can be ;)
[11:17] <mdke> I like the LaptopTestingSpec as a guide
[11:18] <ajmitch_> mdke: it's a good start, but I think more info can be better
[11:18] <ajmitch_> but it depends on whether the info will be used for developers, or primarily users
[11:18] <mdke> here is what I have done, for comparison https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ThinkpadT43. mjg59 obviously if the decision is taken to change the Spec, that's no problem for me
[11:18] <mjg59> mdke: By consolitdated I don't mean all visible at once - I mean a comparitive overview and a consistent way of finding out the details
[11:18] <mdke> ah
[11:18] <r0bby> is there a list of breezy bugs i can take a look at?
[11:18] <Burgundavia> if it is for developers, it needs to be a fast read
[11:18] <r0bby> :P
[11:19] <mdke> Burgundavia, bugzilla is for developers, what you guys are talking about is for users
[11:19] <r0bby> (not seeking support
[11:19] <r0bby> :P
[11:19] <mjg59> Users don't want to see "This works if you do this". They want to see "this works", and it's our job to make sure that it does
[11:19] <mdke> agreed
[11:19] <Diablo-D3> I dont know the context, but I agree with mjg
[11:20] <Diablo-D3> linux has too much "works if you do this"
[11:20] <mdke> mjg59, of course testers need to file a bug whenever something doesn't "just work"
[11:20] <Diablo-D3> it needs more "plain simple works"
[11:20] <mjg59> mdke: Absolutely
[11:20] <ajmitch_> right, I thought the main context of the reports we filed was for developers
[11:20] <mdke> btw tpb doesn't get installed out of the box
[11:20] <mjg59> ajmitch_: Ah, sorry. It's both
[11:20] <mdke> >_<
[11:20] <mjg59> tpb can't be made to work out of the box
[11:20] <mjg59> Not without rewriting it
[11:20] <mjg59> It's a screaming security nightmare
[11:21] <ajmitch_> hopefully the one I get to test will arrive in the next week or two :)
[11:21] <mdke> mjg59, users don't want to hear that :p
[11:21] <mjg59> mdke: Yeah. Instead we tell them "this doesn't work" until it does
[11:21] <ajmitch_> mjg59: if I get a thinkpad, I'll look at working on it :)
[11:21] <Diablo-D3> what is tpb?
[11:21] <mdke> anyhow those tables are hard to read
[11:21] <mdke> IMHO
[11:21] <mjg59> Diablo-D3: Thinkpad buttons daemon
[11:21] <opi> hi guys
[11:21] <Diablo-D3> ahh
[11:22] <Diablo-D3> yeah, I can imagine
[11:22] <Diablo-D3> laptop goodies are Evil (tm)
[11:22] <Burgundavia> mdke, ajmitch_ mjg59 ok, tried one big table
[11:23] <mjg59> ajmitch_: Heh. I know what you're getting - I can tell you if you want
[11:23] <Diablo-D3> I wish there was a generic framework to make everything Just Work (tm)
[11:23] <mjg59> Diablo-D3: In the long run, hal may help there
[11:23] <ajmitch_> mjg59: that'd be good
[11:23] <mdke> Burgundavia, big improvement
[11:23] <tseng> ajmitch_: no spoilers!
[11:23] <ajmitch_> tseng: well claire tells us before they're sent, apparantly :)
[11:23] <mjg59> ajmitch_: Ought to be a Dell 510m
[11:23] <Diablo-D3> mjg59: thats what people I know are hoping for
[11:23] <mdke> Burgundavia, i still personally prefer <h>s and <li>s tho
[11:23] <Diablo-D3> mjg59: but theres lots of other stuff that doesnt just work
[11:23] <tseng> ajmitch_: oh. i need to find a fax machine, claire couldnt verify my clearsign for some reason
[11:24] <opi> tseng: don't tell me :)
[11:25] <Diablo-D3> mjg59: like, non-usbmsd cameras (and such) dont Just Work (tm)
[11:25] <ajmitch_> tseng: right, I scanned & gpg-signed
[11:25] <opi> tseng: I don't even know how to operate one ;)
[11:25] <ajmitch_> mjg59: thanks
[11:25] <tseng> opi: /me barely
[11:25] <opi> ajmitch_: and it worked?
[11:25] <mjg59> Diablo-D3: Stuff that plugs into the serial port is immense pain
[11:25] <Diablo-D3> mjg59: I meant the usb ones that arent msd
[11:25] <Burgundavia> tseng, opi that is why the local office supply place is great. You say fax and here is the number
[11:25] <opi> tseng: well, there's allways time to learn new tricks ;>
[11:25] <mjg59> Hrm. USB cameras ought to work.
[11:25] <opi> Burgundavia: that's my plan ;)
[11:25] <Diablo-D3> usb cameras that are MSD do work
[11:25] <mjg59> libgphoto is supposed to deal automatically
[11:25] <mdke> mjg59, did you see #13390 btw? looks like most of the thinkpad people have had it
[11:25] <mjg59> mdke: Yeah, I had that when I got mine a few years ago
[11:25] <Diablo-D3> mjg59: gphoto integration works now?
[11:25] <mjg59> mdke: I think I may know a couple of ways around it
[11:25] <mjg59> Diablo-D3: It's supposed to, but I have no hardware to test it with
[11:25] <Diablo-D3> mjg59: ubuntu may be the first distro ever to have it working =/
[11:25] <mdke> mjg59, that would be cool, its a fair blocker
[11:25] <opi> btw: If I've submitted a bug to Malone
[11:25] <Diablo-D3> the current redhat and mandrake and whatever else is popular releases completely fail here
[11:26] <Burgundavia> mjg59, if you want to edit my page, go ahead
[11:26] <mdke> mjg59, thank god I made rescue disks. I'm already on my second restore to factory settings
[11:26] <opi> is is someone from MOTU noticed if the package has no MOTU-owner?
[11:26] <ajmitch_> opi: for bugs?
[11:26] <tseng> motu doesnt own every package
[11:26] <opi> ajmitch_: yes
[11:26] <Burgundavia> mjg59, once we are happy with the design, I will copy over to generic page and announce it
[11:26] <opi> tseng: I know, that's why I'm asking
[11:26] <ajmitch_> opi: no, they have to be assigned to MOTU for us to notice, or we watch #ubuntu-bugs
[11:26] <tseng> oh, i see what you mean
[11:26] <opi> tseng: what if a package is just imported
[11:26] <Diablo-D3> (and yes, comparing to redhat and mandrake and whatever is important, if they get something right and Ubuntu doesnt, thats a bad thing)
[11:26] <tseng> Burgundavia likes to assign those ones to the spam bin
[11:26] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Excellent
[11:26] <tseng> send to all motu
[11:26] <Diablo-D3> of course, ubuntu gets so many things right <3
[11:27] <mjg59> There should be a laptop-testing list next week
[11:27] <mdke> mjg59, you think the tables work for readability? I still don't like em
[11:27] <opi> ajmitch_: OK then, I'll try to fix it myself and I'll put it up to review
[11:27] <Diablo-D3> mjg59: how do I join the laptop-testing team?
[11:27] <mjg59> Diablo-D3: I'll post stuff once the list exists
[11:27] <mdke> Diablo-D3, visit the wiki page
[11:27] <Diablo-D3> mjg59: I have a popular laptop, a presario 7xx series laptop
[11:27] <mjg59> mdke: I think they work for developer-level readability
[11:27] <Diablo-D3> amd duron, via chip, twisterk video chip
[11:27] <mdke> mjg59, if the testers are filing bugs, IMHO the wiki page is mainly for users
[11:28] <Diablo-D3> quite a lot of these were manufactured, and they're quite unsupported at times =/
[11:28] <Diablo-D3> like, I /still/ cant get the backlight to turn off, and I've been trying for a year now to do that
[11:28] <opi> my Tecra8000 works almost flawless :)
[11:28] <mjg59> mdke: The information from those pages will be grabbe and reformatted for end-users
[11:28] <opi> you only need to kick ISA-sound a bit
[11:29] <Diablo-D3> and it supposibly has a thermal chip, but its only supported by Compaq's own drivers
[11:29] <Diablo-D3> and its not connected through the via686a chip, and the lm-sensors project has basically refused to support it
[11:29] <mdke> mjg59, ok whatever you guys decide is fine, as long as a final spec is produced and we don't have to keep reformatting our reports
[11:29] <opi> Diablo-D3: pita
[11:29] <mjg59> mdke: What does fdisk claim the partition type of your recovery partition is?
[11:29] <Diablo-D3> opi: very.
[11:29] <mjg59> mdke: Ok, no problem
[11:30] <Diablo-D3> I normally wouldnt care, but this laptop series has severe overheating issues
[11:30] <Diablo-D3> and I mean /severe/
[11:30] <Burgundavia> mjg59, how do we want to handle multiple people with the same laptop? should they just edit the same page?
[11:30] <mdke> mjg59, if you post on the bug report how I can find out, I'll do it next time I reinstall Ubuntu (i've just restored to factory settings)
[11:30] <Diablo-D3> the only way Ive found to fix it is to just have it run at the lowest dynamic cpu speed
[11:30] <mjg59> mdke: Ok, thanks
[11:30] <Diablo-D3> (cpufreq for the win)
[11:30] <Diablo-D3> man, we need a #ubuntu-laptops
[11:30] <Diablo-D3> or something
[11:31] <opi> #laptops'r'us
[11:31] <mdke> --> bed
[11:32] <Diablo-D3> laptops are such pains in the ass
[11:32] <Diablo-D3> why cant someone just make a totally standards compliant laptop
[11:32] <Diablo-D3> one that works out of the box with a number of popular distros
[11:32] <Diablo-D3> like, you know what I hate? having to manually install and setup the synaptic driver for the touchpad
[11:32] <opi> Diablo-D3: too expensive to play with all the parts
[11:33] <Diablo-D3> opi: yeah, but why the hell did compaq /make their own thermal chip/
[11:33] <opi> no idea
[11:33] <Diablo-D3> instead of using some popular chip that plugs into the via686a chipset
[11:33] <Burgundavia> mjg59, what do you think about making it one big table for both releases?
[11:33] <Diablo-D3> you know, /like everyone else did/
[11:33] <Diablo-D3> I'd strangle Compaq, but someone beat me to it.
[11:34] <opi> I'm lucky with Toshiba, with apcitool (I've packaged that: badly;-) I can even turn fan on/off and hibernate it ;)
[11:34] <Diablo-D3> heh
[11:34] <Diablo-D3> the fan is automatic on mine
[11:34] <Diablo-D3> it ramps up the hotter the laptop gets
[11:34] <opi> I think that people who did a electronic for this laptop, are/was brianless
[11:34] <Diablo-D3> thats another thing, btw
[11:36] <opi> imagine: fan starts at (let say) 40c
[11:36] <Diablo-D3> lm-sensors is not automatically setup on any distro
[11:36] <grover> the mfgrs need to be held accountable for bad thermal designs
[11:36] <opi> fan kicks in, temp is going down to 39c
[11:36] <opi> fan stops
[11:36] <opi> it takes ~15 secunds to get to the 40c level again
[11:36] <Diablo-D3> grover: no shit, I've heard stories where presario 700 series laptops literally melted
[11:36] <opi> fan starts
[11:36] <Burgundavia> opi, Diablo-D3 this discussion is probably best taken elsewhere
[11:36] <opi> Burgundavia: right
[11:36] <Diablo-D3> Burgundavia: I said that earlier
[11:36] <Diablo-D3> Burgundavia: we need an #ubuntu-laptop
[11:36] <opi> Diablo-D3: I'm there ;)
[11:36] <mxpxpod> Diablo-D3 and opi: same here
[11:37] <mjg59> mdke: Ok, I've updated the bug
[11:38] <Diablo-D3> yay
[11:38] <Diablo-D3> #ubuntu-laptop is open for buisness
[11:39] <Burgundavia> mjg59, please take at look at  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ToshibaTecraA5 again
[11:40] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Ok, that works nicely for me
[11:40] <Burgundavia> mjg59, mdke suggested it
[11:43] <Burgundavia> mjg59, for the function keys/special keys, do you want a keycode as well?
[11:44] <mjg59> Burgundavia: If they generate one. Note that Breezy has much more support by default.
[11:45] <Burgundavia> mjg59, ok
[11:50] <mpt> oh, snap
[11:51] <Burgundavia> mpt, go ahead
[11:52] <mpt> Is there a doc somewhere on how to install under a chroot?
[11:53] <mpt> (is that even a useful testable configuration?)
[11:53] <mpt> Burgundavia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTesting updated
[11:54] <Burgundavia> thanks
[11:54] <mpt> Now making the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingHardware table narrower
[11:56] <Burgundavia> mjg59, what do we want to do with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingHardware
[11:56] <Burgundavia> mjg59, it is really that useful?
[11:56] <mjg59> Burgundavia: Leave it for now, I'll worry about it later
[11:56] <Burgundavia> mjg59, ok
[11:56] <mpt> ah, good point
[11:57] <mpt> Why are there many more rows in LaptopTestingHardware than there are subpages of LaptopTestingTeam?
[11:57] <Burgundavia> mpt, shrink the table down
[11:57] <Burgundavia> mpt, Hardware is old
[11:57] <Burgundavia> the subpages are new and what we are going to be using in the future
[11:58] <mpt> oh
[11:58] <mpt> So should LaptopTestingHardware be nuked?
[11:58] <mpt> (I didn't like that name anyway...)
[11:58] <Burgundavia> no
[11:58] <Burgundavia> just mention at the top that it is deprecated
[11:59] <mpt> That Lakin guy just added himself to LaptopTestingHardware
[11:59] <mpt> Lakin Wecker
[11:59] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:00] <Burgundavia> not a problem